#People there are so fucking toxic when talking about fan theories man

[azure-steel]

Honestly, people on FB are SAVAGE

[blueiight]

🔥

Do you agree with the (parts of) fandom take that there was "mutual" toxicity btwn Loustat? I'm trying to think of what exactly Louis does that's so toxic that would make it remotely mutual

i think the urge to find “mutual” abuse shows a fundamental misunderstanding of what power dynamics even look like lol theyre just discomfitted theres near zero openings for them to make a black male character out to be be a big brute and self insert into the fictional man of no color. louis is a master of language, and he never actually says ‘i love u, lestat’. people fixate on it for the wrong reasons, or misinterpret ppl pointing the fact that louis never said those 3-4 words as some false attempt at looking for “mutual abuse”.

louis is not withholding, but trying to claim some semblance of power thru his mastery of language. like @lynnenne said:

Over the course of the season, we see that Lestat is hurt that Louis never says, "I love you." On the surface, this seems like a personal argument between them, but it's actually a symptom of a huge structural problem in their relationship. How can Louis ever make a credible declaration of love when the power gap between them is so huge? …Louis could tell Lestat he loves him morning, noon, and night, but it would be meaningless. And Louis knows this. The one time he tries to leave, Lestat beats him nearly to death. When Claudia tries to flee, Lestat tracks her down and drags her home. They're only as free as the colonizer allows them to be. Lestat believes that vampirism will set Louis free, but he won't even set Louis free. Expecting society at large to be cowed by Louis's vampirism is a delusion on his part.

telling lestat “ima boutta lose the last fucking thing i ever cared about”, “u gone always be alone” [an echo of what armand and nicki told lestat in the books..] & insinuating lestat somehow knew the race riot would occur somehow is incredibly cruel if not erring on delusion w the belief lestat could predict racism but do recall lestat was just as incredibly cruel himself. louis tells lestat in the beginning of episode 3 how theyd gore runaway slaves in jackson square, lestat is a crash test dummy in response to the city leaders cracking down on the azalea, treating this enterprise of pimping as a mere “hobby” of louis like a husband talking down on his wife’s “hobbies” as both lestat and louis can both hear how racist the city leaders are.. was lestat tryna take a seat back& let louis kill them himself? yea and also this passivity in the face of men far weaker than lestat was w/ zero of louis’s obligation to ‘save face’ is jarring. so much for “if disrespect was done to u i wouldve killed him myself” hann les? and in the race riot lestat’s even tryna seduce him& have the riot be their anniversary? in wider context , louis saying those words is a lashing out, a response to treatment already present... and theres no equivalent to what lestat does physically to louis in ep5 that we see so far, and i guess that unnerves ppl& makes them want to draw upon mutual abuse theories? which is crazy cuz im p sure them mens of no color yall watch be tearing eachother up& yall have no problem shipping them otherwise w/o mutual abuse theorizing but i digress. imo what louis placed on & has done to claudia is far worse than w/e hes done to lestat but we all know fanon is generally far more sympathetic to fictional men of no color than they are to a fictional black woman... if by toxicity , they mean that lestat along w/ turning louis out [cant find a better way to phrase this] also draws out louis’s vile attributes & fans the flames for louis’s capacity for cruelty [embrace the beautiful things u r & embrace what u r, ur a killer, louis.] that was already there n i wrote this entire think piece for nothing, then i agree. but mutual abuse theories is just😂😂 i just want ppl to embrace we r all here for the problematic yaoi n stop tryna play stan wars.

[lindszeppelin]

Hi Linds. Hope you’re well.

Why do you think some people feel entitled to know more about actors than they want to share?

I have a theory that those people have similar boundary issues IRL. I am never entitled to know someone’s thoughts, feelings, etc., unless they wish to share them with me. And then I feel honored. That goes for co-workers, neighbors, friends, and family.

People who feel entitled to such information are untrustworthy and unhealthy.

I’m not talking about curiosity. Curiosity is natural. Even speculation is not that big of a deal — as long as the “speculator” knows that they are only guessing and speculation is not fact.

For example, all the stuff we talk about in your asks about Austin (and specifically Austin and K), are just our opinions. We find our opinions reasonable and grounded in reality — but we are aware they are opinions. We are aware that we could be mistaken. That we are not privy to facts — until and unless those facts are made public. That we are not in a reciprocal relationship with Austin Butler. That we do not know him.

We love him. We are fans. We are even grateful and truly care about his life. But we understand we are not actually part of it.

Unfortunately some people in the Austin (or any) fandom seem to actually think they know him (scary) while others act like he’s their property or pet (which I find even creepier). They make comments about him like he’s a child or some sort of stuffed toy. It’s so weird.

Now I know there are plenty of people who find it problematic that someone like me, who is old enough to be Austin’s mother, lusts after him. And I’d be lying if I didn’t say I think that’s kinda fair. Even sometimes I question myself and think “omg if anyone IRL knew how I behave on tumblr they’d have me committed immediately”!

But I can say with the utmost confidence that if I ever actually met Austin (and I never will) I would only behave age appropriately in his presence and I would speak to him as a human being, not as a rabid cougar. Or, okay, just stare at him. Not sure which. But my point is I would not feel entitled to a particular experience and I would make every effort to show him respect as a person.

Because I’m not a creepy asshole.

Ultimately I think the folks I detest in this fandom are the folks I would detest IRL. I have a spidey sense that they’re narcissistic toxic gaslighting emotional vampires and would behave so anywhere.

Ok I know this is a wide-ranging conversation, as John Mulaney would say, but I had thoughts and you know how I like to spill my guts in your asks. 😉

MJ first of all, i fucking love you and you know i love all of the messages that you send in to me. I love these kinds of discussions because it's more of a wider perspective in terms of conversation and it brings about important notions.

Let me just say that you do not give off weirdo cougar vibes lol. You are the utmost of respectful when it comes to Austin. Best believe, there are people in this fandom that are much younger than him or around his age like i am that truly are the definition of a weirdo when it comes to how they treat and talk about him.

You already mentioned it here, that they infantilize him. And he is a grown man in his 30s. Even when i was in my teens or early 20s and I had a crush on an older actor or musician, i never talked about them as if they were my child and i was their mother like "omg my precious boy" or something of the sorts lol. idk what it is about these young fans that want to baby him. He is a man and doesn't need to be babied by his own fans for crying out loud. There is a difference between loving him truly, and then diminishing him by patting him on the head/pinching his cheeks and calling him baby names. There are certainly worse things that they could do, but that is a massive gripe.

In regards to your question of why, i think you put it well, that it's curiosity. But also it's grandiosity and egos flying about everywhere. Some people in this fandom feel entitled to know everything that goes on in private so that they can feel big about themselves and stick it to people like us who feel like he has not been truly happy in a long time.

idk how to end this because i think i hit on all of your talking points so i hope that was a good enough answer lol. love ya <3

[twotimeracewinnerlandonorris]

No, that message was genuinely so shitty. Even if anon hadn't read your blog and didn't know about your grandmother (I am still keeping your family in my thoughts and hoping for healing), NOBODY told Staniels they weren't allowed to be upset when Daniel was fired - all I saw people asking was that they not send threats and conspiracy theories over his firing, which isn't "bitchy," it's just common fucking sense and the civil thing to do. Andreas Seidl was a prominent, present figure who did a lot to advance McLaren these past couple years - I think it's understandable that fans of the TEAM versus fans of the fucking "hehe fart, hehe misogynistic pussy comments" joke guy are a little upset. Genuinely screw Ricciardo and his super stans that he refuses to use his influence to put on a fucking leash - McLaren will be a much better place without all of them. I'm so tired of these shitty ass fans that man attracts and takes with him to spread toxicity everywhere he goes. IT'S BEEN TWO YEARS. IT'S OVER. HE'S DONE. HE'S NOT AFFILIATED WITH MCLAREN ANYMORE. GO TALK TO RED BULL AND ASK THEM WHY HE ISN'T IN AN ACTUAL SEAT IF HE'S SO GOOD.

i’m genuinely in the camp of “hate me if you want, more power to you” but at least have some semblance of fucking decency to just ignore me or block me instead of sending hateful shit behind anon. but if you do decide to be a cowards, then just know i will call you every single name that would make satan himself blush like a little school girl. normally i dni but fuck it, i’m in a mood today.

[soul-dwelling]

would fanserivce be an issue if it was equal ratio of men and the women?

Depends on how we define “fanservice”--which, I admit, I throw that word around so much to the point that I inadvertently make it sound like I’m referring to any content with sex in it, as opposed to what the word really means. And I’ll get to all of that in the rest of this reply. 

But to answer your question first: I don’t think my issue is about equal ratios of all genders as subjects of the fanservice gaze. Rather, it’s how well or how poorly you handle that fanservice. 

For example, Fire Force (which I keep beating like a dead horse…) tried to be equal-opportunity with the firefighters’ men calendar and Akitaru and Vulcan’s shirtless posing scenes. 

In theory, all of that works fine: Akitaru and Vulcan are adults and choose to present like that, and firefighter calendars exist in the real world and typically aren’t engaging in the exact same sexist tropes as happens with women. And it was a scenario that let Okhubo do more and more outrageous gags around men’s bodies, our society’s messed up expectations for beauty and what a man’s body should look like, Giovanni’s over-compensation, Onyango’s concerns about getting back into shape, etc. Almost all of that works and is really funny. 

But what ruins it is twofold. First, we get a scene of Takeru not being into this–and being coerced into it, even having his clothes pulled off against his will. That is a failure of consent–as I’ll emphasize below, that is a deal breaker for having good fanservice. Second, if I recall correctly, Takeru, Shinra, and Arthur are all underage–that’s fucked up, no, I don’t want to see a story about underage characters being put into a firefighters’ men calendar, this is dumb and gross. 

Now, onto how we define “fanservice.” 

My understanding is that fanservice is when it’s included to pander to the audience and, if removed, would not significantly alter the story, character progression, or themes, thereby making it extraneous. Fanservice can include sex scenes or content intended to sexually titillate the audience–but we also know fanservice then also includes any content that alludes to in-jokes amongst fans, or deep-cut references only the most ardent fans recognize. We can nitpick this point, because if you take this to extremes, you could eventually cut out the best parts of a story simply because they don’t advance story, character, or themes and thus are fanservice and should be eliminated–but that’s silly. What, do you now remove action scenes? Do you now remove something, even if it’s beautifully presented, acted, and in the case of illustrated works presented and animated, simply because it is just there for action, or giant robots, or a gag, or, yes, sex appeal? That’s dumb. You can definitely put in these extraneous scenes–but make them good. You have a scene here–but it’s not beautifully animated and doesn’t advance story, character, or theme? Then cut it. You have an action scene–but it is incoherent and drags the plot? Cut it. A giant robot, but it adds nothing to story, and isn’t a cool design, and doesn’t do anything? Cut it. A joke that doesn’t land and doesn’t show us something new about the characters? Cut it. A sex scene that is not sexy, or not built on consent, or just about embarrassing the character? Cut it.

My problem isn’t with “here is a sex scene for no reason.” My problem is “here is something intended to titillate the audience–that exists to embarrass a character involved, or has them getting touched without their consent, or exposed naked to someone else without their consent.” It is not only cheap but also is producing content to titillate by forcing a character into an embarrassing situation, or one where they didn’t get to give consent, thereby perpetuating toxic understandings of sex that then get normalized. I’m not talking about what people fantasize or desire necessarily; I’m talking about presenting something as if you should do it or find it funny or find it acceptable–and that is fucked up. 

(And it’s not as if I can sit on a high horse here: beyond Soul Eater alone, how many of my favorite series also engage in these dumb gags, to have someone get groped by accident and embarrassed, or lose their clothes for some dumb reason and humiliated in public, yet I still watch and entire the rest of the series despite what should be these instances of crossing the line?)

So, my problem isn’t having sex in the story itself; it’s having sex, and doing a poor job of it, or an unethical job of it. And it would be silly for me to act like a work somehow can’t have sex in it–especially if that is the point of the story. I don’t only mean that it would be silly to complain about sex being in pornography, smut, hentai, ecchi, etc. 

(Although, yes, it is silly to complain about pornography having sex in it. My complaint is making pornography that has the problems I listed above–lack of consent, intended to humiliate, etc–that prevents us from getting to, yes, feminist pornography, or at least non-misogynistic pornography, and that keeps pornography as perpetuating toxic masculinity instead of modeling kinks that do have consent. There is also an entire discussion to include here regarding how what you enjoy in your fiction is not necessarily a reflection of your desires, or how you would act on your desires, but that’s a longer discussion that I think is going to obscure the bigger points I’m trying to make in this reply.) 

I also mean it is silly to act like you can’t have sex be a part of any story, even ones that aren’t traditionally categorized as porn or smut. Sex is part of many people’s lives; it is part of many stories; you don’t get to act like that should be excised from the story you want to tell. 

In other words, my complaint is not the presence of sex in the story; my complaint is when you handle it badly, and when it reinforces the worst parts of fanservice (it doesn’t feel like part of the story; it feels like pandering; it is misogynistic or otherwise sexist and is perpetuating violence or humiliation for the sake of titillating the audience, rather than content that has characters entering with consent).

[aerithisms]

No one except reylos themselves took the ship seriously until Rian Johnson said, “[rey and kylo touching hands] was the closest thing to a sex scene in Star Wars”. Like they had no leg to stand on, most people assumed they were related then the director of tlj said “yeah FUCK Han and Leia making out, this 30 yo man and this barely legal girl who looks nearly identical to all his female family are HORNY for each other”

And the reylos started talking about how great it would be when that touch/their one kiss Got Rey Pregnant so she could carry on the Skywalker bloodline bc. Obviously that’s her purpose in this story. Family movie!

JJA said nothing supportive of shipping them two after tfa and several comments seemed to Shut It Down. Even after TROS he kept saying things that made it seem weird like still comparing them to family/describing the kiss as being about gratitude

Like it pretty much seems like RJ’s intent was to set up an Epic Tragic Love Story (though I don’t think he had any direction in mind post tlj) and TRoS had them kiss bc of that

i should say i'm not interested in a "my star wars director is better than yours" debate. as i said i like both tfa and tlj, i like both johnson and abrams, and i think most of the things i disliked about tros - including reylo - are likely to have come from higher ups rather than abrams himself. i don't get a romantic vibe from them in tfa either.

but imo there is a difference between johnson saying "yes there is romantic/sexual tension between rey and kylo in tlj" and him saying "i think the presence of that tension is good and healthy". depiction is not endorsement and i think their dynamic in tlj is presented as intentionally toxic. i don't think johnson had kylo tell rey that having unremarkable parents made her "nothing" with the intent that we were supposed to find that endearing.

re: him saying it's more sexual than han and leia i have to be honest i just do not care. this is the website where everyone's always talking about The Inherent Eroticism Of Hands so if he thinks that's more erotic than making out then i don't think that's unreasonable, regardless of whether you agree with him or not. i think it's a pretty innocuous comment, and as for reylos making weirdo pregnancy theories about it, johnson does not have control over that so i don't see how that's his fault or relevant to his choices in the movie itself. i don't think a writer exploring a thorny relationship in their work is responsible for fans acting up about it. the reylos were already that weird after tfa, whether people took them seriously or not, and i don't think their presence should've stopped johnson from writing the story how he wanted to.

ultimately i don't deny that there is a romantic tension between kylo and rey in tlj, i just think it isn't being depicted as a healthy thing. i do think it is an interesting thing though and i liked the way it was explored. i think creating a connection between the hero and the villain makes for a more compelling conflict (the disappointment and betrayal of rey having believed he could change only for him to refuse is a more interesting cause of hatred for rey than him just being evil) and i liked how rey ultimately reunites with her true friends after flirting (literally) with the dark side and rejecting it. for me the idea of the separated arcs of our main trio in tlj is that they all must make mistakes and grow from them, and they come out the other side stronger and ready to be united. i don't think it necessarily succeeds at that with everyone, but i thought it did with rey.

i'm also gonna draw a line under this because it's been a few days and i don't want to run the risk of this dragging out if i get more asks about it. i appreciate the ask though and ofc understand that we disagree.

[allisoooon]

What are your thoughts on Viktors arc this season? I'm having a hard time figuring out what the show is doing with him this season. At the start he transitions , becomes more confident and threatens Marcus in a way that shows he's not cowed by his powers or concerned about accidentally fucking up again Then I guess the whole Harlan thing goes down he loses all confidence and he becomes a guy that mopes around saying "aw shucks guys let's not fight"? It seems kinda unbalanced, like if they just wanted to have him try to be confident and then be shot down, they could have done it without threatening annihilation being his one moment of confidence??? As it stands he goes from that, to like a mopey sad teenager.

And that weird Five conversation, talking about becoming a villian which I get in theory but seems aggressive on Fives part when the Show failed to have him talk to Allison in any meaningful way when he has to to know she wanted to undo this timeline even when they all thought it was stable. I'm not Viktor's biggest fan to begin with but I can't tell if we're supposed to be offended on Viktors part that five would make him the subject of that convo OR see it as foreshadowing that Viktor is going to go down a darker path (which I always thought he would, based on the comics and all the resentment from S1 but the show has failed to deliver on) OR see it as a failure on Fives part, that he was focused in the wrong direction?? OR foreshadowing five doing exactly what he's warning Viktor not to (all the commission stuff?)

The Marcus convo and Five convo could kinda hint at Viktor going darker, but literally everything else failed to do so.

I loved Viktor's arc this season. It was about him figuring out that having a place in the family doesn't just mean his family is there for him--it means he needs to be there for his family.

The problem from the beginning wasn't his confidence or lack of it. That wasn't what his arc was about. It was that he kept doing things without consulting anyone. He was above the rest of the family and could go rogue or follow the rules as it suited him. This was also a problem Five had in previous seasons, and it pretty much always fucked shit up when he went rogue. Therefore, Five was the perfect person to talk to him about this.

(He did not talk to Allison because...he didn't talk to Allison. Lila did. And honestly, by that point, it wouldn't have done any good for him to talk to her. Allison did not need to be lectured--she needed to calm down. That's why all the pestering her to forgive Viktor was always going to be fruitless. She needed time.)

I don't think we're foreshadowing with this scene, nor are we supposed to be offended. Viktor has slipped back into a victim mentality and coddling him to try to keep him from rage-ending the world again has only led to him being enabled by his own family. He needed to hear the hard truth, and honestly, it was awesome. White AFABs are always treated like they are more fragile than other people. That's insulting as fuck. We're not. We can take painful truths--we're just not used to doing so. It's a shock to the system and we get defensive at first, but if we push past that, we're fine. It's up to us to push past that, calm down, and see the logic and nonjudgmentally assess it for what applies to us. It's not someone else's responsibility to keep us from getting hurt feelings while telling us we hurt their feelings. Viktor is a grown-ass man, and he needs to recognize that he's not the main character. He's an equal member of the family, for better or worse. And the reality is, he's stronger than he thinks. He doesn't need their pity or their kid gloves. It's just holding him back.

People have an expectation for Allison to always be there for the other characters without once getting resentful if they aren't there for her. Viktor's fight with her showed how toxic a role that has been for Allison all along, and that she isn't going to play it anymore. Obviously, Allison takes it too far with her powers and her comment about the basement, but like...that's out of character for her. Her brain stem and limbic system are overloaded from the PTSD, so she's doing things that aren't ordinarily a problem for her. It's very much a persistent problem for Viktor to do what he wants without expecting repercussion, and that is what Five was addressing.

This culminates in the ending, where he powers down and trusts the person he hurt the most with his lack of trust. Just before that, Allison trusted him with the truth--she made a bad deal and she's in over her head. In previous seasons, it was major growth for Viktor to ask for help and for the others to give it. Now, the growth is in Allison asking for help (instead of insisting it's fine, she's fine, it's totally fine) and Viktor giving it without needing an explanation.

And that's gorgeous. I love how in 3.09, we have a bunch of characters who think they're okay with dying. Then, one of them actually dies, and they realize they weren't so okay with it. In facing death, they all start showing a genuine side of themselves they'd been battling all along. Allison drops her resentment and distrust of Viktor while the Guardian is trying to kill them in the bathroom, Viktor powers down so Allison can press the button, Klaus loses all motivation and has to be pestered out of the Void, Five realizes he's not so okay with letting his family die after all, Diego caves in to his fear that he won't be able to protect his family, Lila gets to actually protect her family, Ben becomes a team player instead of just wishing he could be one, Luther takes a step out of his domestic mindset and becomes a hero again, and Sloane reminds you to Beware the Nice Ones. In the face of death, they drop so many pretenses. For Allison and Viktor, that includes the pretense that they don't care about each other. And for Viktor, I think, the pretense that he couldn't rely on his family. I think this season, he was clinging to so many old habits, he forgot trust is an action, not an emotion.

[castiel-left-his-mark-on-me]

Hi, Ary, very inactive ex-mutual(i think???) here. Good to see you thriving! ♥ It's been a while since I've dipped my head into cockles stuff. Could I perchance maybe ask uuuuum tf is going on??? lol I see Mish apparently confirmed he used to stay over at Jensen's in Van, and heard newbs were apparently freaking out about it and getting a bit messy, which I get that, business as usual. But I'm also seeing shit about spin-offs? And Jared getting in a twitter fight with Jensen, causing/resulting in stans to going feral and sending hate?? I know you're not as big a fan of Jar, but that's part of why I figured I'd ask you, you usually have a really level head about this kinda stuff. If you don't wanna answer publically, or at all, that's totally chill!

Hey, Rhi! We're still mutuals! Of course we're still mutuals! When I saw the notification of your ask, I was like "Hey! I haven't seen you in a while!" and my husband was like "???" and I said "Tumblr" and he said "Oh."

It was a wild time haha.

In any case, welcome back to the dumpster fire! We are obviously still a mess. So to catch you up, I guess I will start by summarizing both before and after the finale (not sure where you left off so this might be redundant for you) ... basically, it became obvious as the end of the show neared that Jensen was not on board with the plan for the finale; although Jared never stopped singing its praises.

We got confirmation of this during a zoom interview where Jensen said that he actually went into the writers room as well as called Kripke to basically voice how he didn't agree with the direction the final season was going, but he was shot down on all fronts. In another interview, he was asked "What would you tell your younger self going into this career?" And Jensen responded with: "I would tell myself to just keep your head down and do the work" meaning, "Don't try to change things because you can't." I also think that this whole situation is what he wrote "Let Me Be" about for his first Radio Company album, but that is just my own speculation. All of his reluctance, even though he always followed it up with "But I eventually saw the value in the script" or "I came around in the end" (which never sounded sincere, and I don't think he was really trying to sound sincere) made us all very nervous about what was to come for 15x20; and of course, when the last two episodes aired, we saw just how badly they fucked it up.

After the awful finale, the entire fandom became aware of the CW's heavy handed role in the thing, basically squeezing all the life out of SPN to shape it into a ramp from which Walker could launch itself. They not only erased all the love and joy and representation that Cas's love confession gave us, they also tore apart the things that made sense about the bond between Sam and Dean, making it really just about Sam-- and therefore Jared, which of course, Jared seemed to be fine with ... even though no one else was. Misha barely said anything during the finale, and a few of the other actors talked about the show ending in various posts, but Jared tweeted up a storm ... and Jensen? Jensen just sat in sexy-silent resentment of the whole thing. He didn't tweet, he didn't post, he didn't say a word once he no longer had to, and I think that's because he was already going full-steam-ahead on his plans for redemption.

Which brings us to Chaos Machine-- Jensen and Danneel's new production company that is being run by a queer creative director and has a mantra of inclusivity and representation woven throughout it's fabric; and apparently, the first story that Jensen wanted to tell through this new platform is the origin story of Sam and Dean's parents; so last week (?) he announced the upcoming production of "The Winchesters" -- the untold love story of John and Mary. Obviously, John is not the most likable character from the show, so the idea was met with a lot of resentment when it was first announced, but Jensen has gone on to say that he is excited to take on the task of telling the "true" story behind these characters-- the one that makes sense with the pre-established canon and doesn't reject it. So, given that, the idea is being mulled over with a bit more optimism from the fandom.

Who isn't being optimistic though?

Jared Padalecki.

When Jensen made this announcement on Twitter, many of his friends and coworkers congratulated him, but not Jared. Jared responded with a passive aggressive: "I'm happy for you, man, but I wish I didn't hear about it through Twitter." This of course, sent all the die-hard Jared fans into a tizzy and they immediately began asking him if he was serious (hoping it was just a joke-- we all hoped it was because there would be fallout no matter what one's opinion on Jared is). Instead of leaving it there though or just deleting that tweet, Jared went on to tweet some more, saying that he was being serious that he didn't know about the plans for the prequel, and that he was "gutted" that Sam apparenlty wouldn't be included (mind you, this a prequel to SPN... meaning BEFORE Sam and Dean were even born, so how could Sam be included? But Dean is apparently narrating this story so maybe Jared thought Sam should be helping to narrate it? I don't know). But Jared being Jared couldn't just leave that there, he then went on to tweet at Robbie Thompson who was announced as a writer for "The Winchesters" so then Jared went off on him too, calling him "Brutus" and a "coward" acting like Robbie betrayed him (speculation is-- Robbie refused to write for Walker, so Jared is pissed that he essentially chose Jensen over him). He did fairly quickly, remove that tweet attacking Robbie, but of course the damage was done at that point. And it truly only took his first tweet calling out Jensen for some people to be like "Jared-- that sucks if you didn't know but why are you saying any of this publicly?"

As you might know, Jared has had issues in the past with posting hurtful things on social media, and has even used it as a tool for attack before-- calling out customer service agents and public workers that he felt have wronged him, which is bad enough ... but for him to then do the same thing to his best friend of well over a decade? Many people who had once liked him or at least gave him the benefit of the doubt (I used to ...) stopped after this latest twitter tantrum.

However, some people have suspected for some time that J2 had a falling out either shortly before the finale or just after. Their public/social media interactions have seemed awkward, stilted or even non-existent in moments that they normally wouldn't be. In the past year, when Walker premiered, Jensen didn't say much about his friend's new venture other than a "Congrats. buddy" here and there. Later, we learned that Jensen refused to work on the show ... Jared said he make him do it, drag Jensen to the set "kicking and screaming" which made many fans quirk up an eyebrow because, why would Jensen put up a fight unless the two weren't as close as they used to be? And then Jensen moved his family to Colorado (either permanently or for an extended period at least) which is notable considering how he moved to Texas seemingly to be closer to Jared, even buying a house that was near his. All this was just speculation though; but it wasn't until Jared's tweet complaining about not knowing about the prequel that the theories behind them falling out, became less theory and more fact.

The day after his twitter tantrum, Jared tweeted again-- not retracting his statements or apologizing, but instead saying that he and Jensen "talked" and were "all good". Jensen then tweeted too, parroting this statement to some degree, which only made the whole thing even more sour in the mouths of the fans. The fact that Jared didn't apologize for his outburst and throwing his friend under the bus, and also the fact that Jensen-- Mr. Sexy Silence, Mr. Never Tweets, Mr. Tech-Ignorant-and-Proud, actually had to POST SOMETHING saying that he and Jared made up, it just screamed OPTICS. It was obviously the work of agents and PR firms and lots of people going "Look, if you two keep beefing, that will mean the death of both of your projects. Even more people will stop watching Walker, and this SPN prequel will never get picked up due to the scandal." So, the two "made nice" publicly to quell the chaos, but in my opinion, it's all too little too late. Jared started a storm that he can't contain now with a little tweet, and it seems like he knows that too because before he talked about him and Jensen making up, he asked that people "not send threats". He could have just as easily said that he shouldn't have made this a public issue and that he's sorry, but instead, he continued to play the victim and stoke the flames by alerting us all to the damage he's done.

Now, like I said before-- I used to give him the benefit of the doubt. I don't think he's an awful human or that he deserves to be attacked or anything, but he is an adult man with very poor judgment and an obvious selfish-streak a mile wide. He should know better, and he should have more respect for his so-called "friends" and "brothers" than to make them targets to public ridicule. I have a hard time believing that Jensen still sees Jared the way he used to, and I wouldn't blame him a bit for wanting to pull away-- especially when he's moving on to so many new and exciting things. Jared certainly deserves happiness just as much as anyone else, but he went on twitter and basically asked for a scandal, and he got one.

The question is now-- was there a motive behind it? Was just looking for a reason to bring his and Jensen's falling out to light-- while making himself looking like the victim in the process? Or did he genuinely not know about the prequel and just decided to go about "not knowing" in the most toxic and hurtful way he could manage?

In any case, that is the drama ... that is the J2 insanity in a rather lengthy nutshell ... that is the tea ... and I hope it all makes sense.

But the good news out of all of this is, Cockles is thriving-- they are happy and in love and Jensen calls Misha "Babe" and Misha misses waking up to see Jensen in the morning, and they are just as cute and wonderful as can be.

So, I will end that there. I am so glad to see you back, and I hope I answered all your questions in a way that made sense ... I tried anyway!

💖💖💖

[ackerpreach]

This ending .... I can name 500 reasons and I will name them right now, because I don’t think I’m the only one who is upset with how things turned out. (Also, A positive message for all of you at the end)

MAJOR LEAKS SPOILERS/ READ WITH CAUTION

Update: after reading more theories from fellow RM bloggers, and sleeping over it one day, this entire chapter might be an april fools... Don't fully lose hope yet beautiful people. It's me just giving a review on a possible fake April fools chapter

After following this franchise since 2013, so nearly a DECADE. this ending is a pure disserve to the entire fandom. I feel like Yams has rushed it just for the sake of being done with the entire manga. So many things are left open, characters and their developemt are reverted back all the way to chapter 1 or are left even worse than that...

Mikasa’s worthless character development/ Aaronmika’s horrible toxic codependent relationship 

Oh honey... Let’s start with how horrible Isayama has treated her. We were all rooting for her, because we all felt like she was so misunderstood. She had a horrible childhood and imprinted on a guy who treated her like trash 99 percent of the story. And then, slowly but surely, she starts to realize she has to stop obsessing over him in the uprising arc with the help of a real man who treats her like a queen, more importantly, he treats her like a real human being. This man sees her for her abilities and that she has the power to be self dependent. She learned parts of herself, that she was able to work together with him like no one else could.  She learned parts of herself she was unable to do so if she kept obsessing about Aaron. All this love, care, mutual understanding and RESPECT these two shared. 

but...NAH FUCK THAT, right Yams?? Throw all this development away, all this bonding. Let’s make the main female lead even more yandere than she already was in the first season. Let her make out with his decapacitated head (like dude, this is also pure disrespect to Aaron’s dead body btw) and let her obsess even more about the guy who has treated her no better than a piece of toilet cloth 99 percent of the time. The guy who was never really appreciative in front of her for saving his ass billions of times, who always pushed her away, who yells at her and snaps at her whenever he can instead of reasoning and talking calmly with her in mature way. (EVEN PARODY YOUTUBE CHANNELS WHO DONT SHIP ANYTHING MAKE IT A TROPE WHERE AARON TELLS MIKASA HE HATES HER GUTS WHENEVER HE CAN) 

Then after all that, suddenly Yams tries to last minute persuade us Aaron’s always been head over heels for her???  He should have build their relationship better which he hasn’t even tried to do so... He must be thinking his fans are stupid for eating this from his hands.    

Like seriously??? What is this??? 

Isayama is just fully contradicting himself. It’s like someone tipped him off with a buttload of money for him to write Aaron like this to satisfy shipping needs and to cash in those extra money’s from it. Even if he tried to cater to Erem*ika, this is not how you write a loving and caring couple which people will root for. 

This next two panels just freaking infuriates me to the core of my soul. I can’t even describe how dissapointed I am with Mikasa. 

Why is she clutching that head so obsessively like that?  Why is she walking and turning her back away from her comrades? After everything they have done for her, after all they’ve been through?! After everything Armin has done? Standing up for Mikasa, beating up Aaron for hurting her. I feel like even Jean, Connie and Sasha have cared more for her in a healthy way.  Sure, Aaron cares for her romantically too apparently (What a twist Yams :)), but has he aided her to becoming a mentally healthier individual? Has he aided in her mental stability? The answer is a big fat NO!  All I see between these two after today’s raw Chapter’s are too Yandere obsessed individuals who have no clue on how to maintain a healthy relationship. 

Love should only go as far as the heart can endure and it seems like her character is not willing to be aware of that. Even Armin was able to let go of Aaron in those latest panels. Why does her entire character resolve around this guy??? I really do not understand. Her Ackerbond and her age is not an excuse for her to throw her life away like this. 

Shonen’s disgusting portrayal of women 

I’ve seen this countless of times in the many years I’ve watched anime. SasuS*ku from Naruto, Ichih*me from Bleach, Shinji and that oranged hair girl from Neon Evangelion.. Why do these women get decreased to simpletons with one single goal? And that is to obsess over a bland male lead who either treats them like trash or doesn’t notice them up until the last last chapter (LITERALLY WHAT YAMS HAS DONE). Some go even as far as the male leading wanting the kill the female love interest and yet the female lead is still in love with them???. It’s disgusting for him to write the MAIN female character this way. 

It’s dissapointing we believed in Isayama doing Mikasa’s character right. That she’s finally being able to let go of her codependency and to live for herself maybe live in Hizuru and find more about her roots???, but every single time she shows some improvement, it’s burried deep in the ground again by the Author. It almost seems like a lowkey kink of some of the male Mangaka’s to write about a girl obsessing over them no matter what. I see this so many times to the point that I truly stand behind it that some of them might have this fantasy. 

I wished he didn’t portray her last panels like this. Everyone else is living their lives while Mikasa is still grieving about him. I’m not saying she’s not allowed to grieve and everyone takes it at their own pace, but cmon... Show her living her life too. This is too much. Her being next to his grave and grieving him as her last panels just shoves it in our faces that YET AGAIN, BEING OBSESSED WITH AARON IS ALL HER CHARACTER STANDS FOR. 

I truly despise how Isayama handles her grieving, kissing his decapacitated head, carrying it around like some handbag, and her last panels being thissss.

The world leaving Paradis alone miraciously after all that??? 

It’s so weird and out of place with so many political feuds and disagreements between the world and Paradis, the entire Rumbling happening and we can see Mikasa just chilling outside in Paradis with no one bothering them. You can see the rings of the walls in the picture below.  I don’t know the exact reason behind as the manga is still in Korean, but from what I see, the story went the route of: throwing a happy ending without enough proper reason and  it was all fixed just like that in a snap! It doesn’t fit the entire narrative of attack on titan for things to be so peacful out of nowhere. When it comes to the narrative, how things work in that world, how hard it is to achieve peace, everything made somewhat sense up until chapter 138. 139 seems so so out of place...  It’s like I’m reading a chapter from a totally different manga. 

Aaron Yoghurt got defeated so easily/ Aaron’s character assassination

The build up on the first part of the rumbling was great, those kids carrying coins. You could feel humanity’s fear and Aaron’s hatred in those pages. As if he truly had a goal and he has turned away completely from his comrades and his closest friends with no return. The world seemed truly doomed, but he  got defeated just like that. He was in the nape all this time (because screw the warhammer power of hiding yourself elsewhere in his ginormous titan body). There is no master plan as we all expected, and in the end he just acts all yandere in the paths with Armin and that’s it... They massacared his entire character as well. Many fan theories created a better ending with his character. Him being reincarnated as Historia’s baby would be so much better. For him to still keep on seeking and to strive for power. It has always been his motive. It’s his personality from the start until chapter 138. Even if things are okay, to keep on going and to seek that adventure, but then.. He’s so weak and directionless suddenly.. It’s so weird... This is not Aaron at all???

Using Aaron for him this entire post, because I don’t want others to invade our tags... :)))

Historia’s baby 

The only panel we got from Historia’s child was this. Just a normal kid, normal life... Why did Isayama put so much effort in highlighting Historia’s pregnancy if it was nothing too spectacular anyway? It seemed he had major plans for this kid and for their development too??? It’s again, big plans, big developments, big relationship dynamic, but all  got thrown out of the window... 

Don’t read the next sentence if you are a minor :’) 

It’s like almost ejaculating, but stopping right before it and repeating that every single Arc.

My energy when writing about this chapter is the same as Nostalgia Critic and his hatred for atla the live action

In Conclusion...

I know us fans should not be deciding on how this story should end, because this is Isayama’s story after all, but I truly wished for him to wrap up things much more rounded. There are so many unanswered questions... Again, I think for the sake of being done with this manga, he rushed all of it. He’s become a millionaire from this story and now his pockets are jammed full, I guess he doesn’t need to put in any effort anymore, right? Perhaps a controversial opinion, but I really wished he cared for his fans a little bit more with this last chapter by giving some answers that make sense at least. It’s his fans who gave him this platform and the opportunity to tell his story and for him to at least give in a bit of effort especially in the last chapter is the least he can do. Rivamika being canon or not, he truly rushed it without thinking much about the entire story line. He expanded it so much, he didn’t know how to bind it all together.

Even after all this, I’ll still ship them in the headcanon type of way. I do give credit to Isayama for giving us a template for such a beautiful dynamic between Levi and Mikasa. He decides to waste it, but that doesn’t mean we have to.  I want to thank all the people with amazing writing skills, the ones who give us beautiful art like @carmenlee @phit chan @vialesana​ and many more. I want to remind all of you that we can create something beautiful of our own and we don’t neccesarily need canon lore for that. The art I’ve seen, the fanfictions I’ve read have touched me deeper than Isayama ever could at times.The Mikasa in our mind is appreciate of Levi, is mature, classy and has a strong will for herself. They spend their remaining days together peacefully. Keep writing, keep drawing, stay creative. 

I love you all so so much, I’ve only been publicly active since March, but thank you Rivamika fandom for giving me so much joy as a lurker these past 7 years <3

[you-cant-spell-subtext-without]

now that I've accepted that I am forever unclean and that Analyzing the CW’s Hit TV Show Supernatural Specifically Dean Winchester is the regular hell loop that is my brain -

I Have Some Words to Say About Miracle (the dog):

Yes, this motherfucker.

(this episode contains SPOILERS from Season 15 of Supernatural including 15x09, 15x18, 15x19; TRIGGER WARNING - abuse, trauma, self harm, and spn 15x20 analysis).

I know we as a collective were confused (and angered) when instead of getting his One True Love at the end of the series, Dean Winchester got....a dog.  No offense Miracle, because you are cute and fluffy and I’d keep you forever

YES FOREVER YOU ARE SO FLUFFY COME HOME TO ME NOW

but

Dean Winchester does not like dogs.

Some have theorized it’s because he was killed by hellhounds at the end of Season 3, which is enough to give you a little canine PTSD:

Even explaining the following behavior in Yellow Fever:

He was also killed by this dog at one point in Mystery Spot:

It’s canon he has a strong aversion to dogs in the Impala:

(I would like to know more about Don)

There’s also probably lingering/repressed anger around that whole Sam never looked for him while he was in Purgatory situation:

There is, however, ONE prior episode in which Dean doesn’t hate dogs.

In Dog Dean Afternoon, when, as a side effect of a spell, he takes on the characteristics OF a dog.

(don’t let anyone tell you Jensen Ackles doesn’t have range, by the way).

SO MY THEORY ON “WHY MIRACLE” BASED ON THE AFOREMENTIONED IS:

As essentially everything, it all goes back to John Dumpster Fire Winchester, Father of the Year.

If you’re a John Winchester apologist, you should just stop reading now.  Also just don’t.  There is NO REASON TO DEFEND THIS MAN.

We know John was abusive.  Just one example of what  he put Dean through when he was NINE that he STILL remembers.

Also, this:

I could go on, but you get the picture. Why people were so thrilled when he came back for Lebanon keeps me up at night (nothing against the wildly talented Jeffrey Dean Morgan; he is fantastic, but John Winchester is trash). 

Dean’s childhood abuse is part of the reason he is convinced he is unworthy of anyone and anything.  It’s the first thing Cas notices about him.

Sam knows it too.

Even Crowley:

Abuse is generational.  Dean has shown he has potential to continue the cycle.

With Sam:

(not mentioned, lying, controlling Sam’s choices, the angel possession thing)

With Ben when he lives with Lisa:

He snaps at him about taking a gun from the Impala’s trunk at the beginning of Season 6, and then in Live Free or Twihard he physically pushes him against a wall (granted he’s a vampire at the time, but still - not an excuse).

With Jack:

At the outset of their relationship, Dean treats Jack the way John treated Sam.  He initially blames him for Cas’s death just like John blamed Sam for Mary’s (remember when John not only forced Dean to fucking single-parent Sam but later told Dean he may have to kill him seriously I could strangle this man).

Dean is terrified of turning into his father and perpetuating the cycle.  Remember the lyrical genius of Single Man Tear in Fan Fiction?

“But underneath this broken mask It is my father, with all his wrath”

That’s why he pushes away the people who love him the most.  He deeply believes he will inevitably hurt them.

He doesn’t even allow himself to begin a relationship with Jack at first.  The Jack/Dean arc is wildly important in all of this not only for representing Dean’s fear in perpetuating the cycle, but also because Jack/Dean is a narrative mirror for Dean/John.

Remember what Jack was doing before this? (TW: self harm)

Think about that in terms of Jack representing Dean.  Sit with it for a second.   Oof.

I posit to you this is also why Dean becomes so aggressive in using Jack to stop Chuck in Season 15.   Remember Dean consistently refers to the hamster wheel (a literal CYCLE) throughout this season.  This ties directly into Dean’s fear that he can’t control his life; that he is destined to become just like John - abusive and cruel. Team Free Will for Dean has always represented the glimmer of hope that this will not be his ending.

15x05:

The gun is gone, but it turns out Jack can be the weapon that ends God.  Think back to someone else who was fighting a Big Bad in Supernatural, and was so obsessed with finding the weapon to end him that he sacrificed everything, including his family for it.  Dean is acting exactly like John Winchester.  He’s perpetuating the cycle.  And that’s also part of the reason he shoves Cas away - because he believes this is inevitable, this is who he was always going to become.  

That’s why the purgatory prayer is BRILLIANT and important:

Dean is finally talking about his anger; his fear of the cycle. How his first response to stress and conflict is anger, just like John’s. He is acknowledging and accepting that this is in him, and sharing it with Cas.

WOOF ok so back to dogs.  You forgot this post is about dogs right?  So, we all know dogs give us unconditional love.  The best and truest kind.

Abusers also tend to abuse animals.  Dean’s aversion to dogs is a manifestation of the cycle of abuse. He believes if he gets a dog, he will inevitably abuse and torment it, because he believes that is who he is.  So he just acts like he doesn’t like them.

Until this happens:

And the very next episode, we meet Miracle.

Tell me this isn’t a man who has ALWAYS LOVED DOGS.

And BTW he has no issues having Miracle ride in the Impala.  Because that wasn’t ever the real problem to begin with.

Cas’s words of love helped Dean break the cycle.  

Reinforced in the finale (derogatory): 

When Chuck says -

Dean responds with that’s not who I am.  

And that’s the reason for Miracle.  Dean’s Team Free Will ending is breaking the toxic loop, and accepting love without fear that he will destroy it.  It’s acknowledging that while the history of abuse exists, it does not have to control or define him.  He chooses a different path.  He chooses to be defined by love.  

But he was still robbed of actually living his life with the people who got him here.  I will never stop screaming that he deserved better.  If you are fighting against this cycle, please know that you too deserve better.  

Oh and John Winchester 10000000000 percent belongs in hell. 

Which is why the Sexy Silence continues.

BONUS FOR SEROTONIN:

[antiloreolympus]

12 Anti LO Asks

1. its victim blaming of hades to tell minthe its HER fault she "couldnt get over him". like? you lied to her! youre the one who blurred the lines to date her! you were just as toxic to her if not more so by controlling where she lives and her job, all while never defending her to your cruel family! you had all the power over her while she had nothing! you dumped her for a 19 year old and dont care she crippled minthe! i wont excuse minthe's actions, but hades is ultimately the worse of the two IMO

2. you know why fans claimed "Minthe should've reacted better"? since the first episode Rachel has been drilling into their heads Minthe is an irredeemable monster, and her not bending over backwards to H/P means she deserves the absolute worst. Minthe reacting how anyone logically would doesn't matter when LO is designed to coddle H/P, and anyone against them must suffer for it, even if the victim to H/P's actions. they never wanted her to be "redeemed", they want her head on a silver platter.

3. i know this is not what she intended bc the only characterization rachel has of hxp is "the best over everything" but uh, does she know having hades control all the petroleum and gasses and whatever else is actively destroying the planet, right? like hes helping the very thing persephone draws her power from and what she's connected to be destroyed to appease hes need for wealth and power. its kinda gross hes being romanticized while he commits horrible acts like this for his bank account.

4. its not impossible to go opposite in their original myth personalities and still have it work. like in hades game, sisyphus is one of the most likable characters, achilles is gentle and kind, ares is calm and rational, etc, but it makes sense within the context of the story. LO in comparison goes "all these loving mothers are evil because i said so! this beloved god is now evil because i said so! minthe is evil because i said so!" and that's about it in terms of logic to these wild changes.

5. I can kinda get behind anon's theory about the flower nymphs looking like P to help her be undetected, the problem is there are also unrelated women in comic who are bright pink and look just like her, with hades even confusing them for her! if i had to bet the only reason they look like that is because rachel just wanted daphne to look like her to hammer home apollo is "obsessed" with P and to fake them as her "real family" over demeter. also just laziness in designing characters in general.

6. its weird hades and persephone are well aware what they're doing is bad even openly admitting it and yet the narrative is so hellbent on excusing their bad actions?? like hades being the major toxic factor in his relationship to minthe, persephone killing people, or hades wanting to bone an eternal 19 year old? like rachel you know thats not how character growth works, right? you cant show they have horrible flaws and leave them to never grow and learn from it, that's not good writing at all.

7. what i also dont get is the hierarchy makes no sense? like zeus is framed as the top god, but that would mean hades cant be the most important man ever so rachel also made him equal rank with zeus (and i guess poseidon too) so?? how does zeus have all that power over them then if theyre all equal? is it because zeus swallowed metis?  also how are the fertility goddess so powerful and rare yet so easily taken down? how are they overpowered and super weak at the same time? i just dont get it.

8. Re reading chapter 144 and other anon is right we do see the pomegranate pin on Hades outfit (so Hades gifts it to her)

But also some things to note

During the makeout session persy begins to disappear in butterfly form and hades is like "no don't leave!" And he grabs her, preventing her from leaving. Which is..kinda Ick considering they were on their way to having (public) sex and he doesn't want her to leave which seems like he's not really respecting her boundaries? (because if she does he'll "be lonely")

The pomegranate pin is Hades' to begin with so technically one of Persephones symbols is not hers (yes I know in the original myth she ate it in the underworld / was forced to eat it but still its supposed to be her symbol)

Hades notes that he "doesn't want to overstep his boundaries as host" because Persephone is a guest (too late for that)

Persephones main concern (after what a week or 2?) after being raped is when Hades wants to stop her reaction is "dont you want me anymore?"

Girl you aren't even dating ...??

Persy's literal one and only concern is that she thinks if she doesnt sleep with Hades right then or when/if he wants to that "she wont be able to give him what hes used to" ... Which is reinforcing that she went to therapy to get "over being blocked" in regards to having sex

Although Hades does mention that she shouldn't feel like she needs to please him and that a kiss can just be a kiss which would be nice

(And yet his thinking of marrying her amd he's known her for 2, 3 weeks? ... And he says "the beginning of a new relationship is exciting and scary" so hes basically indicating thay their dating at this point, I think?)

And later the nymphs in the store are like "do you wanna be the dominatrix of the bedroom?? Buy this lingerie!" And persy does. So??

Meanwhile Demeter is very worried for her daughter who is busy sitting in Hades lap in a pool. 

9. Can we talk about how anons are making fucking flow charts for the LO Timeline cause it's so ridiculously jumbled?

10. im not even against rushed relationships, ive known actual couples who met and were married all within the same year and it worked out great, the difference though is these were people who had their own lives and previous relationships. the issue with LO is RS designed it so Persephone can NEVER have relationships or a life outside of Hades, and if they did get married offscreen, it's framing their marriage in a toxic and unbalanced light. That's not a romance, it's a disaster waiting to happen.

11. i feel like there's a difference between drawing an interesting hooked/aquiline nose versus whatever the hell RS puts on Hades' face. It honestly looks like he's in between morphing into a bird half the time since it just looks like a beak over an actual facial feature.

12. are there shareholders or a board of advisors or something at underworld corp? because if there is id say they have more than enough reason to kick hades out and strip him of his titles/shares because of all the shit he's caused by being guided by his broken pp over thinking with his head. liking dating TWO employees? and getting one of them phsyically crippled by the other bc he can't be honest with either of them and she's a walking time bomb? he's a walking HR nightmare.

[lucysarah-c]

Levi daiting a Swifty

I was talking with @levisbrat25 about it andIwas surprised to see how many people in the fandom like Taylor too. So here it goes.

First of all, he is definitely not a Swifty but this man isn't a fan of anything. Fanatism isn’t his thing unless it’s cleaning or tea. Don’t take it wrong, that's Levi approach to anything. TV-shows or movies? either. I think he would be like that kind of people that are like "I liked this show" final point. Perhaps he will recommend it if he really liked it, nothing else. He will move to the next stuff to watch.

Probably, you or Hange remind him that a new season from a show that he likes is going out and he will be like "Oh, ok. I'll keep it in mind". The same is with music, an author that he likes dropped a new album? Spotify will have to tell him because he had no idea.

Leaving that aside, he doesn’t get your enthusiasm but he finds it cute. Especially when you two are cleaning and you’re dancing to the music while vacuuming. Or cooking while screaming “We are never ever getting back together”

Will probably be the one who buys the tickets and stuff from the official merch because he’s awake in the middle of the night when they are dropped. You don’t understand how he does it but he always managed to get his hand on special merch, like those signed folklore CDs.

As I said, I don’t think he gets your love for her but could hear you rambling about her, theories, easter eggs, etc for hours. He loves to see how your eyes shine and that would be the reason he buys the merch for you.

Have you seen those clips about people singing with the top of their lungs All too well? There’s always a person who looks at you like “this person lost their fucking mind”, that’s Levi. Especially on the car haha, once the song is over he would be like “Are you done? Can I switch to the news already?”

Folklore and Evermore would probably be the only albums from her that Levi actually has in his playlist. Because calm and sad music is his thing. Probably gets pissed when some catchy songs like “shake it off” stucks in his mind because you had it on repeat all day long.

Did I say that Levi isn’t a Swifty? Then guess who it is? Isabel, you two ramble about it for hours.

If you two dated back on 1989 era, Levi probably didn’t like Taylor that much. He would not be toxic like those people that are like "she's a slut, playing the victim or too many ex-boyfriends" but if he’ll probably think that Taylor is "trying too hard" and “overdramatic”. Because let's be honest Levi doesn't give a fuck with what does Taylor do with her life.

I bet he would say something like "tell Kayne to go fuck themselves. End of the deal". He’s just like an old grumpy man who doesn’t get drama and celebrities.

If you explain to him how she decided to keep her life private after that, Levi will be like "MH, good for her" He's not interested but glad that someone like Taylor, who moves a lot of young audiences, is admitting how toxic her previous style of life was. Probably scare that Isabel would overshare in her social media 😂😂 she doesn't listen to him but perhaps will listen to Taylor if she says it in her documentary.

Overall, Levi would respect any personal passion or hobbies but don’t expect him to share it unless its tea or cleaning.

100% the kind of person who lets you put the music you want, rarely will sing with your but perhaps and only PERHAPS he will if he’s extremely on a good mood. God blessed you if he does tho. He's a damn well singer.

[what-do-1000-swords-look-like]

Okay, this is a bit wordy. Sorry, I have a lot of feels right now after catching up on the latest episode of season 16 of SPN.

Not for nothing, I don’t think a lot of people understand why the Dean/Cas pairing is a hot button topic for some. This may be a fictional pairing in a fictional show but it really is disturbing to see these last few months how MANY people have gone out of their way to invalidate this ship, those who ship it and believe in it (& make content for it), and overall a possible gay pairing for one of the main characters of the show. This includes fans, the casual viewer, trolls, certain celebrities and set people and executive producers, certain areas of the media -- the works. And if you cannot see how troubling it is that this is being done all because of a possible man x man pairing (or really a male presenting angel x man pairing) that some fans choose to believe in or see themselves in, in the year 2021, then you need to take a closer look.

Imagine if this wasn’t about a fictional pairing at all. Let’s imagine Dean and Cas are two real people who are together and instead of gaining support like they should and people being happy for them, this is what they receive instead. All of the horrible toxic statements being thrown at them with the aim to invalidate them as people as well as their relationship. Isn’t it horrible? Now imagine seeing yourself in one of these characters (or both), seeing representation for your sexuality or personality or lifestyle or past traumas or disabilities or gender orientation get hated on like this, called names, and completely invalidated. That shit fucking hurts. And that is why some of us get upset when it comes to the Destiel pairing and the continued bullshit surrounding it. For all of our progressive ideals in our society in the past five years alone, this shit is still occurring.

Think about it. The show queerbaited the audience for years, in order to secure the LGBTQ+ section of viewers/ratings. Regardless of what the show’s intention may have been by the end, regardless of what happened (possible network interference, etc), in the end, nothing came of it so that then makes it official queerbait. If the show never intended to follow through with Dean answering Cas’ confession, then they never should have had Cas admit he was in love with Dean or baited for years through the script direction, the narrative, the PR, etc. (which just gives more creedence to the network interference at the last minute theory because I do think they planned to take it all the way but the network chickened out). But instead, they put it in, confirming the story they were telling subtextually for Cas for years. Now that the show is over, what’s happened since then? 

After the finale aired, we were told Cas had a different ending than the one he was given, by Misha himself, but they “aren’t supposed to talk about it”

Jensen has remained virtually silent since the finale aired outside of one IG post about it

Jared said some weird crap that didn’t make sense and was rather thoughtless so he could PR W*lker -- what did this accomplish: pissed off the disabled community and mental health community (and rightfully so)

Other than that, there has been no resolution, no explanations, even no addressing anything (outside of Kripke) from the writers, Dabb, the network, or anyone else really -- SPN doesn’t even exist on the C*W’s YouTube channel anymore and their twitter account is now being used to steer viewers to other projects such as W*lker (instead of deleting said account or making it inactive, they’re still using it to “bait” people to watch their other crap) -- what does this accomplish: nothing except gaslighting in a way and while I don’t use that term lightly, if you look at the show’s history, gaslighting has been its middle name for a while now (I still love the show but let’s call a spade a gaslighting dick of a spade)

Chad and Samantha confirmed they were never asked to be a part of the finale, even pre-COVID

There’s proof in the pudding that Misha was supposed to shoot after 15x18 wrapped but no confirmation yet on what happened or why Cas had a “different ending” or why Misha wasn’t in the finale at all

Then the spanish dub situation happens - Misha posts a video saying he’s “irked” and it’s a “rouge spanish translator” -- even though he walked this back when he realized people were upset about other things than just Destiel and what it was really about (representation, “bury your gays” that C*W is infamous for, the ending, etc) & he did apologize, and did listen, this was just another thing coming out swinging at fans who saw themselves in Dean and Cas or the individual characters themselves (I know that wasn’t Misha’s intention, but it didn’t lessen the impact it had in any way) - because the spanish dub is yet another indication (which Misha had been partially right when the spanish actor confirmed they dubbed it that way because it made the most sense with the story and the mouth movements) that everyone else in the world (outside of the C*W offices) can see that the pairing made sense with the story they had been telling for the past few years and that’s where it was headed -- what this accomplished: Misha I think was trying to put out a fire, I think he’s a very compassionate individual and I think it bothers him when he sees people getting upset so he thought he might do some good but he was also going to defend his character and his performance, and once he listened, he realized okay this is about more than this one moment, but unfortunately it only accomplished in hurting some (initially) and while some fans felt heard & validated by his willingness to listen, it also opened the door for those same invalidating toxic trolls to come through once again, leaving many feeling unsupported yet again

Then Adam Williams and Jim Michaels happen, the two biggest asses - I refuse to give them anymore words than that -- what this accomplished: invalidating fans yet again for their belief in Destiel and mocking them while also insulting them/highlighting the toxic invalidating trolls, giving them more of a platform to continue invalidating/abusing/trolling    

The Stacy Abrams panel happens where Misha invites people to ask questions about the show (if they pay to be part of the panel) and even went so far as to send emails - then the panel happens and poof! no questions taken at all -- what did this accomplish: fans felt “baited” again and this time in the name of $ and politics

Chad tweets about the Roadhouse opening and Samantha is involved as are a few other people - fans starts speculating that there is a Destiel wedding happening on Valentine’s Day due to the weddings mention in his initial tweet & his response to someone who asked him to clarify that he wasn’t talking about a Destiel wedding: “Um no...you did NOT get the memo” - Valentine’s Day happens and while they tweet out about events happening and about a beige trench coat (I think on Saturday?) & Chad engaging “hellers” on Twitter through tweets, no one mentions a wedding (outside of the fandom who had it trending, and seriously peeps that’s incredible, be proud of that and pat yourselves on the back! you deserve it!) and then Samantha tweets out that there was no wedding, invalidating the wedding theory and proving once again that fans had been “baited” -- what does this accomplish: fans feeling “baited” again because they played along to the tune the fans started and instead of clarifying like asked, they let it continue, engaged on it even, and then invalidated the theory completely

So being “baited” for anything whether it’s for political fundraising or to get a certain actor trending worldwide or anything in general is a sore point right now (as it fucking should be, baiting is never okay) for those in the fandom, after what we’ve endured the last few months, the last 12 years really. 

As for the Chad and Samantha situation, I don’t know everything that went down today but I will say I think I saw Samantha’s tweet either last night or earlier today (I can’t remember, I’m still recovering from that fucking amazing wedding my two faves had, Rowena, holy hell can that woman drink!) and I remember thinking, “Wait, why are you even making sure to confirm there was no wedding? Wasn’t it all roleplay anyway? You don’t need to comment on this, Samantha! Just let it be! Why do actors and celebrities not get this? WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO PROFESSIONALISM? I WILL KEEP SAYING IT! GAH!” 

This is why I swear I don’t mind that Jensen has been virtually silent. He gets it. There’s nothing he can do to change what happened in the end of the show, there’s nothing he can say that will explain it away, excuse it (not that he should be the one who has to, looking at you rancid nutwork), or reassure anyone. There’s literally nothing he can do to make it better, for you, for me, for Dean, for the show, for Misha, for every single fan that he met that told him their personal story and how Dean affected their lives -- there’s nothing (unfortunately). So rather than add to it, he stays silent and focuses on the future (his family, The Boys, his music) and I can’t blame him. I actually respect that. As frustrating as it is as a fan of this show, as much as I’d love to have answers, I know he’s not the one responsible to give them to us and I’d rather he be allowed to live his life, continue his career, and move forward in relative peace. He gave that role his all and the man deserves a break. Do I hope he comes back to it in the future? Sure. No one else will ever be Dean Winchester. Not just for me, but in general. (C*W, I swear if you even try anything...) No one else is Dean Winchester. But I am more than happy to see Jensen digging into this latest role and doing something new.

Anyways, I digress. My original point is that I feel as if many people do not understand why us “hellers” get upset when this type of crap happens. That doesn’t excuse any hate or attacking of anyone, of course. No one should ever be attacked. And while I don’t think Chad or Samantha are terrible people, I do think they’re just uneducated in this topic and unintentionally complicit in more “baiting”. It’s the engaging on the topic of Destiel, the refusal for clarification when requested, and then the supposed clarification from Samantha after the trending happened (the goal) that has people upset. Because those three actions are “baiting”, especially for the result of getting Chad trending. And that is what people don’t understand when it comes to the topic of Destiel and the ship’s fans. When you turn around and say things like “Cas just meant that as a brotherly ‘I love you’” or “Cas may be gay but Dean is not, he only had sex with women, he only thinks of Cas as a brother” or “Supernatural is not gay! Jensen said Destiel doesn’t exist!”, you are invalidating all of those who not only see themselves in either character, you are also insulting and invalidating all of those who watched the show for 15 years where the story showed that this was a legitimate pairing that was coming into being, spent their money on their merchandise and cons and bought their PR bullshit, and helping them to continue to gaslight the fuck out of these people. That is why a lot of us get upset when this type of shit happens. 

This isn’t because Dean can’t be with anyone else or because everything has to “be gay” (which, really? that’s really something someone says? that’s incredibly stupid). This isn’t because “Destihellers” can’t accept reality or accept the ending of the show. This isn’t because (and I still can’t believe my eyes after seeing this one) some women just want to see two grown men kiss or fuck on screen and are fetishizing the pairing. Had this pairing been Dean and Anna or Cas and Meg, the point being that had it been a man and a woman, this show would have seen it through and there wouldn’t be an ounce of this bullshit going on. Imagine if some pairings from the past like Delena (or Stelena or Steroline), Jack/Rose, Harry/Sally, Noah/Allie, Buffy/Angel (or Buffy/Spike) or even Bella/Edward or Ron/Hermione had been given this treatment. Imagine people told you that you were only fetishizing those pairings because you wanted to see a guy and girl kiss or fuck on screen. Imagine people going out of their way to invalidate you because you’re trying to make everything “straight”. Imagine you were called crazy because Elena confessed to Damon that she loved him, died, and then she was never mentioned in the show again nor did Damon appear to give a shit after it (and not because of the actor or his performance but because of the editing and script changes). Imagine you were called psychotic because Harry and Sally (literally) took 12 years to get to the point of will they or won’t they and maybe Harry confessed but Sally was like that’s awesome, so when’s my salad coming out because the movie studio was afraid that it would become too straight. Imagine if Jack sacrifices everything for Rose and she is like lol boy bye and pushes him off the door and ignores him trying to tread water and survive. So you don’t see him drown or survive because they wanted to keep it open-ended and when Rose is on the ship, someone tells her “Jack helped” because the filmmakers were more comfortable keeping it open rather than making Rose respond, because again too straight. Imagine you had been “baited” for years on any of those pieces of media (or ones I didn’t mention) and then realize, this is what Destiel shippers deal with (and have dealt with for a long time), or anyone who has been looking for representation in media like this. Eileen was erased and so was disabled representation. Cas was erased and then Dean (Crowley was killed off before them) so LGBTQ+ and mental health representation went out the window as well. The women on the show disappeared (or were treated horribly, the Hell Hound and Styne deaths were a bit much), some literally (Donna, Alternate!Charlie, Stevie) and female representation disappeared with them. There were no POC in the end (Rufus only gets a mention, I know, COVID, yet no mention of Kevin?) so that representation was gone as well. And this show is infamous for misogyny, ageism (as proven by what happened with Kim), and no homo jokes. Hell, there are even two rape jokes in season 6 and that was during Sera Gamble’s era. We all know there were lots of issues with this show, but those who invested their time and money into it from the viewer side, we’re allowed to get upset. These are more than legitimate reasons to be upset.

To be honest with you, I doubt anything when it comes up relating to Destiel, when it comes out of these actors’ or crew members’ mouths anymore. If they aren’t allowed to talk about what the hell happened with Destiel or that garbage finale, then no one is talking about it. Whether that’s due to NDA’s, C*W widespread reach, or whatever, no one is going to discuss it and if they do, it’s only going to be complimentary and kissass to the C*W. That’s the way Hollywood works. It’s not right but it’s the way it works. I’ll engage in the fandom fun, like I did when the whole wedding talk started. And even though I figured it would never come to fruition on Chad’s end, I have to tell you that I was blown away by the fandom response. The amount of content that came out of this idea, all of the headcanon posts, the general happy buzz in the destiel tag for this past week was phenomenal. And that’s what we should hold onto. Destiel is ours. SPN did them dirty and then tossed them out to sea. *uses really long pool net to scoop them up and bring them back to land* They continue to inspire us, inspire our creativity, and share their profound bond with us all while we make our own bonds as mutuals. Destiel is ours, they broke the narrative and jumped off the page/screen to make it happen; let’s let that be their legacy.

[masterthespianduchovny]

No please share your theory if only you want to though. Well I mean David did kinda almost slip up when he said years age Nate's the single guy lol & him unintentionally always bringing her up and Gillian is getting flustered and shit and whatnot all the time when he's brought up. In your OWN opinion do you think that DD is also captivated/charmed with GA's charisma and her being her in general?

Wait, what does “Nate’s the single guy” refer to again?

Full disclosure: the only thing I claim to be true is that David and Gillian are friends, which I’ve stated before last Sunday.

This is all speculation on my end and I don’t claim it’s the truth by any means.

Personally, the only way I can make sense of David and Gillian’s is if they were/are having a torrid affair.

Antis will claim this is a fantasy of mine, but I don’t fantasize about people having affairs. However, I am realistic that these things happen.

As I mentioned in another post, how is Gillian still flustered about a question she literally answers several times a year for almost 30 years? Why can’t she give a straight answer? Why does she lie and sometimes contradict herself?

Because she was and currently is involved with David in an on again/off again affair. Depending on her answer, they’re either involved at that moment and/or she’s upset at him.

Where as David can answer the question, but he slips up in other ways.

And it explains why they’d lie about it.

Let’s get something clear: they’ve always admitted that they’ve had a complicated relationship, which they are open about, but they’ve never said they’ve hated each other.

Part of the reason is that they both have dominant personalities, the other reason is that they couldn’t or wouldn’t commit to each other for whatever reason. Then when they got married to their respective spouses and had kids, but still fucked around, they couldn’t expose their indiscretions.

They’re both trying to protect their kids, David more so than Gillian. David’s father cheating, and then leaving his mom for his mistress, deeply shaped David and his brother. People may think this is ironjc and hypocritical, but sometimes kids mimic their parents behavior. Even the toxic shit. As a result, he doesn’t want his kids finding out what he did because he knows what it could do to them. It’s also to spare their former spouses embarrassment (to be honest, I’m not sure David and Gillian would ever receive public blowback for it, esp now. People already think they’re fucking, so what difference would it make). Acknowledging that they ever hooked up leads to questions about when, and then people doing the math.

Gillian’s marriage was from ‘94-‘97 and David’s from ‘97-‘14. Okay, so maybe Gillian was single for a few months and David was single during his separations from tea. I’m not sure there’s a lot of overlap where they were both technically single at the same time. David dated Perry and the woman who dated det white. There has almost always been a relationship going on.

So if they’ve been fucking on and off for almost 30 years, it wasn’t always when both were single. One or both of them were definitely in relationships.

Something we know happened: Gillian admitted that they were talking (as in trying to see if it could lead somewhere) when David lost interest because she wasn’t from New York.

So there is evidence straight out of Gillian’s mouth that when they first met they kinda hit it off in that way before David walked away.

During the dark ages, you know the time they famously ‘hated’ each other, David elopes and doesn’t tell Gillian. Months later, her and David are doing an interview for print or video where they interview each other. Gillian brings up tea and is like, “you must’ve really liked tea to marry her so quick” and “why didn’t you tell me that you were getting married?” This isn’t verbatim, but the gist of it. David says, “you’re still mad about that?”

Let’s take a moment to note how weird that is. They hate each other, right? Why would Gillian fucking care that David didn’t tell her he was getting married and that it happened so quick? It doesn’t matter, but she was hurt by that. She really was. It wasn’t friend hurt, it was jealousy and betrayal.

David hates Gillian, but makes snarky remarks about her boyfriend Roland aka “six pack” (or is it eight pack). “Well, he hates her right, so it makes sense he’d make cracks about her boyfriend?” Well, years later, it’s an inside joke between them.

Their failed relationships are inside jokes to them. Does anyone else find it unusual how often they joke about their failed marriages and relationships? How is this something apart of their narrative or necessary when talking about how long they’ve known each other?

The only way their behavior and responses makes sense to me is if their relationship is messy as hell.

Why would you lie about how close you are to someone unless you had something to hide?

When you comb through their history and read/see what they were doing and what they said, it doesn’t match this narrative that they hated each other. They were at a difficult point in their relationship, personally and professionally, and that bled over into work and interviews. But they’ve always maintained that it wasn’t hate, it was just complicated.

I think in “ghost in the machine” Gillian pretends to blow David. They insisted on doing the “cut” FTF loss and I write cut in parenthesis because, although it was cut, it shouldn’t have existed. They made out twice for fun. Why? Why would you make out for fun with someone you hate? And didn’t this occur during the dark ages? In the unnatural, after tea leaves the set, David starts humping Gillian and she giggles. Yes, two people who hate each other right there.

Their relationship was so tense and complicated because they were stubborn, proud, and strong willed. Those type of people are bound to clash. Throw in their work environment and their relationships, it was a pressure cooker. An explosion waiting to happen.

When people say they hated each other, the question is why and how did they get over that?

There’s never an answer for it. Or when they do claim something, it’s disproven.

And that’s because they didn’t.

If they hated each other, they wouldn’t have done IWTB, various cons together, or even seasons 10 and 11.

Could I be 100% wrong about this, ABSOLUTELY.

Look, it’s no skin off my back if I’m wrong.

I just can never shake the sensation of how Gillian looks like she’s about to be caught or is scared when she’s on a late night show and someone says “picture” and “David” in the same sentence. She looks shaken.

What was up with their kimmel interview?

Why we they basically flirting while talking about hooking up with women?

I expect anon hate accusing me of saying “you said that they had a horrid affair doe 30 years.” 🙄 “but Gillian was so in love with Peter and David loves young pussy.” But my whole point is, I don’t know what to make of their relationship and this is the only thing that makes sense to me. Both of those things could be true in these hypothetical anon hates, it still doesn’t change what I said.

Hell, even Téa while freshly married to David described his relationship with Gillian as sibling like and like a married couple. What does that even mean?

People who talk about “Téa had to force David to invite Gillian to his housewarming party.” Was that because he hated Gillian or because they used to fuck/were fucking. Inviting your former/current lover to your new home with your new wife. A bit awkward and disrespectful, wouldn’t you say?

Keep in mind, months before (or a year before), he was her date to the Emmys, as a friend, to support her because her divorce was being announced that day. How do you go from that to hating each other and not wanting this person to come to your housewarming party?

What was the catalyst?

Why did the fall out?

Didn’t their tension start around the time he married Téa? 🌚

I don’t know if it’s in the same year or within the same 12 months of his marriage, but she’s mad at David at one award show and kissing him on the cheek at another. Dark ages, right?

Remember when Gillian gave a spot on, unfavorable assessment of David and he responded to it all hurt and moody? 😂

And, how could I forget, let’s think of the other suspect behaviors.

1. David: we only email like five times a year.

Gillian: that’s what you like to tell people.

2. Gillian’s gum falls out of her mouth, David puts it in his mouth.

3. Gillian spitting food in his hand and David not being grossed out by it.

3. David pulling on the hem of Gillian’s shirt to pull her closer so he can sign it. Neither thinks twice about it, despite the level of intimacy being unusual.

4. David biting on her shirt.

5. David going quiet and making shit awkward after joking about her saying she kept saying she’d point at random men and say, “I’m going to marry that man.” Same occasion two minutes before, Gillian asking how David knew who mitch’s wife was (it was her stunt double). It felt accusatory.

6. The chili’s story where she has to explain she means Mulder and Scully had sex at Chili’s and not them.

7. Then holding hands under the table at comic con in 2013.

And there’s a lot of stories either I forgot or don’t know, I’m still finding out new things.

I know this theory destroys their perspective of DDGA and it ruins them for some fans, but it’s just a theory. Like I said, I’m not saying it’s the truth. I’m saying it would explain a shit ton about the ebbs and flows of their relationship and why they’re so inconsistent and reactive to being asked about each other for just about three decades. Why aren’t they bored of the question by now and answer it without this big to do?

I don’t know if David stans believe he is/was a cheater, but Gillian stans swear he is until you mention he could’ve cheated with Gillian. All of the sudden, he’s faithful and committed. 😒

I can admit that I might be wrong because I don’t know them. Only they know what goes on in their relationship. But if you had friends acting like they do, you’d think they were fucking or wanted to even when they insist otherwise.

To tour last question: OF COURSE David is captivated by Gillian. Gillian is attractive, funny, and flirty. They seem to have similar senses of humors at times as well. She’s silly too. I can totally see David being taken in by her because we see that now.

He’s more of the straight man to her zaniness, but he finds her zaniness endearing.

EDIT: please feel free to add any normal colleague behavior between David and Gillian over the years. 👀

[books-movies-anime-shows-games]

About queerbait...

The real problem with "queerbait" is that more than half the time it is not queerbait at all. This is a term used and applied to character interactions. If you look at what fans call "queerbait" you'll find that what shows are doing is depicting relationships where there is openness and communication, especially among male characters.

As I see it, this is a good basis because it shows that men can have deep relationships and talk about their feelings and have support. These interactions are a way to show to the male audience there is another path other than the "toxic" masculinity that prevails in the world - a masculinity based on aggression and not crying and mocking each others pain and being called a "girl" for trying to talk about feelings.

These interactions show men that they can have this freedom with someone that isn't a significant other, that friendship is just as deep a connection and meaningful.  This openness should exist with friends, with family, and shows and books have been trying to showcase this for a few years now. (there is a very common trope in media where a man will be harsh and cold and aggressive to all but then is pratically putty with their romantic partner -- it’s cute but it does show some of the problems with masculinity) But instead of this being seen for what it is, fans go on labelling it "queerbait" and "dangling a ship at us", when in reality you are just fucking bitter that your ship isn't canon and you can't recognize a real friendship if it hit you in the face.

What happens is that those moments of interaction that are often life-changing for characters, end up being demeaned and reduced to ashes by fans who call it "queerbait". Don't you see the consequences of this? If you go on calling every moment two male characters are close "queerbait", then you are basically telling real life men that the only way they can be open with another man is if both of them are gay and have romantic feelings for each other.

A romantic relationship should not be the "be all end all" of things in life. You need friends and family beside you and that includes having relationships with these people where you can communicate your feelings and be heard. This applies to both fiction and real life.

I'm not saying that "queerbait" doesn't exist or that it isn't used by writers to appeal to people into watching something, but that is not always the case and if you actually take the time to look at what you call "queerbait" then you'll see what they are trying to convey is so much bigger than that.

I’ve seen shows where character relationship’s develop over time into romance. I’ve seen people call these developments “queerbait” and cheer when it becomes canon -- doing this is ignoring that relationships do develop over time, there is no “bait” in it (if it were fanfiction you’d be calling it “slow-burn”). There are moments and situations that lead characters to notice a change in feelings -- it can be something as simple as checking in on someone when they are in a bad place, or ending up on one of those situations where they fall on top of one another and they are close enough to kiss. But none of this is actually  “queerbait”, it’s just how relationships are and how they develop - no matter the characters’ gender or sexuality.

I've been in fandom for most of my life and I remember a time where ships were the "happy corner" for fans to imagine and play with and be happy with. Nowadays, most fans demands their ships to be made canon, they are rude to the writers and the actors, and that is soooo not okay in so many levels. I remember a time where there was a thing called "fandom etiquette", a time when fans knew not to impose their ships and their theories on others and on writers/actors (you make everyone uncomfortable when you do). Fandom used to be a place to share our ideas and things that made us happy, and it has become a toxic wasteland of fans yelling at each other, fighting over whose headcanon is truer or some other shit.

Nowadays it's always about hate and what was bad and why you shouldn't do this or that. Let's go back to a time where we could enjoy things. Most things are problematic, but so are humans. It is our "job" as fans to acknowledge that, but it is our "right" as fans to like something despite of that. (You don't need to write a 20-pages essay on the reasons why you enjoy or dislike something; you are free to enjoy whatever you want simply because it is fun)

This is a long ramble, but I'm just so so tired of all the anger and the insults and to see people leave shows they love because of how toxic the fandoms have become. I have seen this happen over and over again and it is exhausting. So please, just stop insulting each other, stop sending hate to the writers and the actors, stop imposing your wishes on others.

Just be kind and share your ideas and all that. You don't have to understand other people's ships or headcanons, but you need to accept them, because we are all different people and we each like things in our own way.

Just let people be happy with what they enjoy, stay away from what you don’t like and focus on what you do like, because believe it or not, that shows what kind of person you are.

[djemsostylist]

It's been a few days and I've read a lot of takes and had a lot of long talks with @lolo-deli and I'm firm on where I stood Thursday. People who are pro this new season have been busy with PR, and I've seen the same points over an over. 1. We don't know why they broke up, we don't know what they both did, 2. we can't blame Eda, 3. we will get to see them fall in love again, 4. we will see Serkan with a second pregnancy, and perhaps the key, 5. we needed a reset. Oh, and 6. their daughter will bring them back together. Last season was a mess and we needed a blank slate. I'd like to address these points, if for no other reason than it will make me feel better.

You are correct. We don't know why they broke up. The most popular theory seems to be "Serkan pushed her away", which I think is both because it can make Eda "not the bad guy" and also because he has done it before. I'm not going to belabor the point, but we have spent the rest of the series since then showing a Serkan who learned from that mistake has been willing to anything to be with her. I know amnesia Serkan was a mess--but he also had fucking amnesia. And once he was back, we got back our soft boy who wanted nothing more than to be with her. If they have him push her away, it's for plot reasons, not character ones. So maybe Eda reaches a breaking point. Okay, over what? Him not telling her about the tumor? That's her last straw? She endured everything else, but him delaying telling her about the tumor is the last straw? Does she leave him while he's dying? In treatment? Sees him through and leaves him after? I think no matter how you look at it, for them to break up after all they have been through makes no sense to me. Why would they? As I said in a previous post, what could worse than what they have already endured? In any case, either of them leaving the other, again, means I'm forced to wonder why we would ever want them BACK together. If something happens to break them up for 5 years, then obviously it's not meant to be. If they can't figure out a way to make it work after all they have been through, what would five years of bitterness and stewing do to make either of them ready for a relationship together? (And the teaser makes it pretty clear they *are* bitter.) Instead of seeing a counselor, trying to work through their communication and trust issues, if their choice is always "run and dump" and they've learned nothing in 39 episodes, then what is the point anymore? This is not a second chance romance. This is a toxic relationship I no have an investment in.

We can't blame Eda. Look, I get no one wants to hate Eda. I don't want to hate Eda. My girl has been through hell and back, and she's endured a lot for love of this man. I'd have supported her leaving in 15. I'd have supported her deciding not to trust him in 20. I'd have even supported her leaving towards the end of his amnesia, if she thinks there is no hope. But I'd argue the fact that she stayed, that she worked through her issues with him after 15 and chose to be with him means she knows what she's getting into. She knows who he is at his core, and if he was worth all the pain she went through in the 30s then yes, we very much CAN blame Eda. Even if Serkan broke up with her, pushed her away, I very much can and do blame her for keeping his child. I've seen people say there was a miscommunication, that she tried to tell him and he wouldn't listen, maybe he says he doesn't want kids. I'd argue that if he did, it was because he was dying, otherwise why a sudden 180 from Serkan-I-Want-To-Build-A-Library-For-Our-Children Bolat to "no kids?". Which she should find weird and also realize the cause. Again, it would be for plot reason only. Regardless of what happened between them, the second there is a child involved, to quote @lolo-deli you put on your big girl pants and learn to fucking communicate. Even they aren't together, doesn't mean they can't raise a child together. Unless he's a drug lord or a mafia boss or a serial killer, together or not, he deserved to know about his daughter. He deserved the chance to be in her life from the minute Eda knew. Period. I'm not going to cry for Eda's pain of raising her daughter alone in Italy when she literally could have just told him, and you know he would have moved the moon to make sure his daughter felt safe and loved. At least, the Serkan I know. And the Eda I know would not have let him push her away without letting him know about a baby. Not a girl who knows firsthand what it's like to grow up without a father. So I'm sorry, but if we were hating Serkan for being asshole when he had amnesia and we were hating Aydan for keeping secrets...then I'm hating Eda for keeping a child and a father apart. I'm tired of the "all men are trash and boss queen" all or nothing mentality. I really, truly am.

Look, at no point do I want to have to watch Serkan Bolat fall in love with Eda (again) or his daughter. I've already seen him and Eda do that before, I spent 39 fucking episodes on that. And having to watch Serkan fall in love with his daughter because he didn't get to know her from birth is about the most depressing, least romantic, and most heart wrenching thing I could possibly imagine. This isn't a baby, like so many people keep saying. It's a child. A whole entire formed person and Serkan doesn't know her. Because Eda kept a secret. I hate it.

And it doesn't matter if he gets to see the second pregnancy, bc he still missed the first, and every single thing will be a reminder of that. And I don't know how Serkan, who has always felt unworthy (and justified or not is what led to most of the problems in their early relationship) gets over the fact that Eda thought so little of him that she would rather have her daughter grow up without a father than attempt to get in contact with him and let him have a role in her life. I just don't. That's soul crushing. "Am I such a horrible person that you didn't even want her to know me?" As much as I don't want Eda to suffer anymore, I also don't want Serkan to either. Maybe that makes me an antifeminist. Sue me.

Look, last season was a fucking mess. No one is denying that. Part of it is on the writers, part of it is on the producer who kept hiring and firing writers, part of it is on the fact this show should have ended 20 episodes ago. And I hated the 30s, have no desire to watch them again. But the thing is, you can't ignore the episodes that have been written. As much as we want to. Things happened--and that includes character growth, promises made, words said. You can't just do a reset. And I'd argue that breaking up a couple that said they would do everything in their power to make each other happy, who got rings tattooed on their hands as a sign of never, ever being a part again, wouldn't just break up and not see each other for five years. At some point, it becomes toxic. Lack of communication, selfishness, immaturity, stubbornness--do we even want these people together if something was so awful they separated for 5 years and Eda kept a whole baby a secret? Five years is a long to be apart and not once thing about making amends until they are forced into it. What is the point of that reset?

I hate this. So, what, if Eda hadn't randomly brought their child to an awards ceremony and the girl hadn't happened to see Serkan, then they never would have attempted to get back together? It's not like they couldn't get in contact with each other. How is the fact that without their kid (which Serkan didn't even know existed) they would never have reconciled a cute plot?

Let's not argue that this isn't anything other than it is--a ploy to bring in new fans and/or try and get old fans back on the part of the producer. If someone can explain like I'm 5 how this plot is good, I'll listen. But to quote a tweet I saw, you can't use the words angst, pain, suffering, or heartache, because those are not good reasons. You also can't say "but last season" bc I know. I was there. Last season sucked. I get it. It's not a reason to not even attempt a happy ending.

For now, I'll leave it at this. If your kind of love story is two people who have learned nothing, who only know how to fight and hurt each other and break up and think nothing of using a child as a pawn, than I'm happy for you. This season sounds great. But you can't convince me this was necessary, you can't convince me this was "always the plan", you can't convince me this will be anything other than pain, heartbreak, and a way to try and milk SCK for all it's worth before they are forced to cancel or Hanker finally says "we're done."