#Nesta is not the girlboss you think she is

[thecatsaesthetics]

I think this scene actually proves how much of an unreliable narrator Nesta is, and is not the girl boss moment Nesta stans seem think it is. It shows the exact opposite, and people taking Nesta's "side" in this scene aren't paying attention to the narrative.

"You (Feyre) dragged me into this mess, this horrible place, you are why I'm like this, why I am stuck here" - Feyre did NOTHING to her sisters, Ianthe and Tamlin are the reason Nesta and Elain are fae. Even if Feyre hadn't used her father's house in ACOMAF, Nesta and Elain still would have been turned into fae because Ianthe learned about them from Feyre much earlier and was going to use them to keep Feyre compliant.

Claiming Feyre didn't "care before" - Feyre went out of her way to invite her to Winter Solstice, which is not only a holiday but her own goddamn birthday. Somebody who "does care" isn't doing that, she wanted Nesta around. Rhys also stated he "offered Nesta job after job" in ACOFAS and Nesta declined them all. Rhys isn't offering these jobs because he wants Nesta around, he's doing so because he knows how hurt Feyre is over her sister.

"Your mate's money" - that line is beyond fucked up and anyone claiming this is a "girl boss moment" you're simply wrong. First lets point out Feyre and Rhys are married so his money is her money. Furthermore Feyre is actively working as High Lady, saved the city, and literally sacrificed her humanity to save the entire country from Amarantha.

Second Nesta has been entitled to Feyre's labor/work/sacrifices since Feyre was 14 years old. Feyre is just stating the facts for the first time that Nesta has only ever helped herself to Feyre's money. The only resort Nesta has is "ummm it's not actually your money", this is not the girlboss comment you think it is. Nesta actively has refused jobs, she has refused to do any labor and then cries when someone points this out to her.

"You're always sacrificing for us, your sad little human family" -This implies that Feyre only provided for her family once she became associated with the High Fae. That isn't true. That's incorrect. Nesta and Elain have both admitted that they would have died without Feyre going into the woods (at 14) and hunting. Feyre has been sacrificing for them and has provided for them. Nesta mocking this, isn't a girlboss moment.

"As if things had been so miserable with the Archeron family"- In this own scene she is happy that she was able to hurt Feyre "Another flash of hurt. Nesta's blood sang at the direct blow" There are other moments in the series, but Nesta in one moment is trying to use her words to hurt Feyre and in the next moment is claiming Feyre has no reason to want to claim people who treat her with kindness are her family. That's the definition of an unreliable narrator.

"Elain had chosen Feyre and these people, and left her behind"-Nesta has been actively shoving everyone out, since the battle and yes she is traumatized but shoving people out is not someone "Not Choosing you". But also the way she views Elain is similar to a doll, Elain shouldn't have to be just "Nesta's sister" she should be allowed to be both Feyre and Nesta's sister. She also uses Elain in this scene to try and get out of working, the "Elain needs to be able to see me" when she knows she's been pushing Elain away and Elain is not a child, if she wants to see Nesta she will. It's often discussed how Nesta abuses Feyre but I am also starting to see her treatment of Elain as abusive.

"Feyre had always been her own master. Always got whatever she wished. And now it seemed Feyre would be granted this wish, too." - What in the world is Nesta talking about here? Did Feyre get her wish when she was starving and had no money and forced as a child to hunt? Did she get her wish when Tamlin broken into there home and took her without consent? Did she get her wish when she literally was tortured and killed because Amarantha was pissed off she had bested her?

So inconclusion people who claim Feyre is an unreliable narrator... this entire scene PROVES Nesta is the unreliable narrator. Everything she is claiming about Feyre simply isn't true or supported by facts.

[ae-neon]

Nesta Vs ACOSF, a rambling rant

TW: mentions of sexual assault and abuse

Besides the "love" story that read like a quiet descent into domestic horror, ACOSF has one element that keeps me from being able to pick it up even just to sift through for Nesta gems: sex.

Here me out, I'm not a prude and I think we could have gotten a smutty romance but...

At her core, Nesta has always been a proud and modest person.

To be clear, with pride, I mean that her sense of self - her famous steel spine - has kept her together and unbroken even during harrowing circumstances. It's vital to her. It's so ingrained in her that - given we have no other explanation - we can assume it's what shields her mind from literal magic. However, like any trait, her pride can also be a thing that comes off as negative in the wrong situations.

With modesty, she was raised to keep a certain ideology that based her value on sex, beauty, marriage etc but it's important to understand that Nesta applied those standards inwards, at herself. (Eg In acotar, she brings up Feyre and Isaac in defence of her and Tomas, in acomaf, she is mostly upset about not hearing from Feyre or being notified that Feyre has switched courts - not about Feyre sleeping with Tamlin and then Rhys)

Now, I don't think Nesta's modesty makes her better than Feyre, in fact I was happy to get the representation of two different types of views on sex

But what I didn't consider at the time was that SJM was painting this out to be a negative trait.

In retrospect it seems obvious even though Nesta has defied her narrative destiny and become a sort of icon, at the end of the day she was still supposed to be written in a negative contrast to Feyre.

It seems funny but imagine you consumed the book the way Sarah intended, the way so many in the fandom have. The old Sarah Says rule, for my long time mutuals.

For example:

The dinner in acomaf - it's obvious Nesta is upset that she hasn't heard from Feyre only to have her come through not only as a whole Fae but bringing others and endangering their entire family.

But imagine it as a one dimensional reading and suddenly the "I fuck" dialogue is a girlboss moment of feminism giving a fuck you to the strict patriarchy of the "mortal lands" let's ignore how the Fae are actually more patriarchal and the Illyrians even more so than that

So understand that Nesta's modesty is being directly contrasted with Feyre's sexual freedom. The reader - at least from sjm's perspective - is supposed to agree with Feyre and disagree with Nesta in a sort of win/lose, yes/no, black/white dichotomy.

And because sjm is consistent and boring and a self-inset author, this dynamic doesn't change even when the protagonist does.

Only now sjm and her feminism has changed from fuck-whoever-I-want girlboss to kinky-but-only-with-my-husband tradwife

So Nesta can't be prudish and cut off because 1) it's not as conducive to the breakdown of self and buildup of a dependent and abusive relationship and 2) it's not in direct contrast with Feyre's current monogamous, traditional family values character.

So Nesta starts drinking and sleeping around and it's not because we're going to explore the unraveling of the pride and modesty at the core of the character as part of her transformation or as a result of her trauma

But because it's supposed to be a bad look, degrading, it shows she's failed, it makes her a loser

All of that is already insane. And even more so when taken with the context of her assault by Tomas and the sex centred relationship she has with Cassian

Now add to that the fact that in the book, Nesta is an object of desire for 2 villains and undergoes assault and drowning AGAIN

Sjm literally gives less than 2 fucks about SA, that much is obvious even from the way she inflicts and then disregards the experience of both Feyre and Rhysand respectively. It's a tool for her, a quirky story element

But to have Nesta experience such a similar thing - especially when the experience of being Made can be read as a sort of rape allegory on its own - and all for the sake of "romance" fantasy??

Even Nesta's reading habits are sexualised, to be clear I don't think there's anything wrong with reading smut, but the scope of her intellect and reading is narrowed down when we're suddenly made to believe most of the books she reads are smut.

This is someone who likely taught herself economics and investment within months in order to not just pay off the debt, upgrade her whole family's way of life but also rebuild the family fortune. Someone who, having stopped schooling at around 14/15, did the math needed to calculate the feasibility of the evacuation of a small country.

Someone who's verbally stated life goal was to see what a woman could make of herself in the world.

Even her love of reading is used as a stepping stone for how horny she is, instead of it being a result of her deeply ingrained need for escapism

She reads smut because the only thing she has in common with Cassian and the IC is sex. Because sjm thought one of the core elements of a friendship between 2 SA survivors and a disabled woman from a culture that mutilated her for being born a woman would be their desire to fantasise about men.

All the while the male love interest treats her like garbage.

We could have had a smutty book filled with sex where each scene could have been the growth of Nesta's trust and love of Cassian through intimacy. It could have been a sexual relationship that involved and explored kink - which explored vulnerability and the negative impact of how Nesta's pride became a source of stress and strain.

It could have been an exploration about the complicated relationship with desire and oppressors that many survivors have. But it isn't.

It's hahaha horny, so RELATABLE

Even when it comes to the abusive situation Nesta grew up in, it's just hung up like decoration on the character. Not explored, let alone healed. I don't wanna hear that sjm explained or explored Nesta's abuse when we don't even get her mother or her grandmother's names

We don't get

The complexity of being a trapped and abused woman who came from a trapped and abused woman who came from a trapped and abused woman

Or the complexity of a dysfunctional family

Or even the journey of recovery from addiction and self-harming behaviour

Now, not every aspect of Nesta or any survivors lives have to boil down to how it relates to their experiences but SJM is praised for her "recovery" and so much of this book is about sex and abuse but has no depth

It could have been a less-deep, fun experience of sex and desire and kink. But no

Nesta has sex with many faceless men because sjm is condemning her as a failure. Sex is her punishment, it makes her dirty and unworthy and cheap.

Then, through her "healing", she becomes a sex doll for the right guy. Sex is her reward, it makes her hot and useful and appealing.

Sjm writes not just like a man but like a particularly talented misogynist so it's the way sex is used that really puts me off

Edit: ultimately I think the sex and romance should have interacted with and evolved her pride, modesty and past experiences, rather than those things being demolished to turn her into a sex doll

[nikethestatue]

dear elain lover 🌹💭🍰,

1.  what about elain’s character do you love?

2.  what scene of the seer’s is your favourite?

3.  what is your top theory for the quiet dreamer’s upcoming book?

4.  anything else you’d like to say about the lovely fawn?

Well, hello!

what I love about Elain's character is that she is not a cookie cutter girl boss. There is a depth and complexity to her--which is why I think she elicits so much hate and such strong emotions--people don't know what to make of her. I think everyone's grown to like the predictable FMC, who slices and dices and follows all the usual tropes. Elain doesn't have any of it (biggest fear is that SJM will make her a girlboss) and I like an FMC who cries when she is sad, who doesn't have anything figured out, who makes terrible decisions and who is far from perfect.

I like all the scenes where she surprises others--when she explains to Feyre the importance of having Solstice as a celebration. When she gives Azriel the headache powder. When she snaps at Feyre and asks her 'does that entitle him to me affection?' When she stands up to Nesta. When she fights the naga with her bare feet.

She'll somehow 'revive' Dusk Court

If SJM stays true to her ideas and her vision, Elain's story could be very epic. I am hoping that SJM has matured as a human being and as a woman, and would be able to write something that celebrates the quiet, ordinary women and their labor, as well as their capabilities.

[astrababyy]

https://www.tumblr.com/astrababyy/738088417973420032/one-thing-i-really-liked-about-feyre-in-the-first

This post of your makes me wonder if SJM wasn't a onetrick pony and respected her own stories and actually wrote characters and not tropes of girlboss ™️ what would've feyre's character trajectory looked like? I'm interested to know what do you think her arc would've been?

I sometimes feel like the problem isn't even Feysand being a ship it's SJM molding Feyre (& nesta) so they are similar to their bat boy mates. Because like there's S&B with darklina being it's most popular ship. Sure it's not endgame and that's because Leigh didn't completely change Alina's whole personality to fit the darkling. Alina got to keep the characteristics that made her who she is which is what made the chemistry between the two interesting too unlike in SJM's stories where she obliterates her fmc's entire personality to fit their male li and in doing so it ruins any appeal in the "ship" itself. Feyre/Feysand and Nesta/Nessian are both examples of that.

hello, anon! i rarely ever receive asks regarding meta or characterization so thanks so much for this lol <3

as i stated in the post you linked, i do believe that feyre's natural arc would've had some sort of internal conflict regarding both her trauma from under the mountain and her being turned into a faerie. i feel that rhysand's comment about her "human heart" could've been emphasized better in the second book and would've served as an interesting contrast from rhys, her established mate in the story. their morals are vastly different from each other; how does this change their relationship? would feyre accept him for who he is? would she judge him, scorn him, try to help him?

especially in regards to the impending war, i think feyre struggling with her newfound fae instincts, being different from who she used to be, and trying to reconnect with who she used to be while accepting who she is now could've been very profound and paired well with her struggles with the trauma she faced from under the mountain.

the major issue with feyre's characterization is how she was molded to become rhysand's partner, rather than being able to fit with him naturally and seamlessly. the same issue occurs with nesta and cassian's relationship, where her character has to be altered just to fit in with the person cassian is. in feyre's case specifically, it got worse as the books went on. feyre gradually became less and less alike to her old self without a clear reason for why she was changing in that way. as i stated before, her becoming a less violent-averse person due to her faerie nature is understandable and would've been a wake-up call considering her transformation, but feyre becoming less empathetic and understanding of the plight of the lower classes, becoming so much more okay with spending money carelessly, supporting rhysand's frankly corrupt government structure, etc. are all ooc.

feyre, as a character, had a lot of potential and could've had that transition into becoming this warrior queen without losing all her morals and beliefs, becoming a vessel for the pro rhysand agenda. it's truly unfortunate that her character had to devolve in the way it did.

[pinklayla123]

Thinking about how Feyre didn't grow up dreaming of being a hunter she just wanted to paint and Nesta didn't want to be a warrior she just wanted to dance and read books and enjoy life but Feyre had to hunt to feed her family and Nesta came to the realization that physical movement helped calm her mind and because they partake in these physical activities they are treated by the fandom like they are better than Elain who enjoys gardening and baking and makes the choice to not partake in these physical activities but because she does that she's not "girlboss" enough to be a "good female character" and is treated as useless simply because she doesn't have a stereotypically masculine physical activity somewhere in her repertoire and if Feyre and Nesta didn't have their hunting and workouts they would be treated almost the same but slightly better because they have more "snarky" and "sarcastic" personalities which is also a requirement for a female character to be liked but in reality Feyre and Nesta would literally be the first people to beat you up for talking about Elain like that and Ms. don't-you-touch-my-sister Kingslayer would return the favour.

[nyxreads]

I see alot of Elain stans wanting to read about soft female characters and that is why they love Elain as the next lead of the acotar book. I get it. Please don't misinterpret what I'm about to ask but soft girls are way too overrated. This is why men easily step on women, because women are too soft and can become a doormat. Elain is "too kind", "too forgiving", and some stans hate "girlboss" but did one of you pause and think that maybe the reason why some people like girls like Gwyn or Nesta is because they are the representation of women who stood up after centuries of patriarchy? Women aren't lesser. We love to read more girlboss characters in fantasy books because they empower us. Just some food for thoughts but I love Elain too, she can show more flavor in the next books

Hi anon,

First, I want to clarify to you that (imo, I can't speak for all) but Elain stans don't really hate badass characters. There's that. And I don't really think feminine women are overrated considering how characters like Elide, Yrene, Elain (at least in this fandom) are overlooked because well, they don't wield sword or isn't bitchy enough.

The thing here anon is, instead of women empowering women (may it be fictional or real) it became a competition. Of who's better, who can wield sword better, who can kill, who can say the last word, who's fit to have a love interest. It comes to the point where some women especially in this fandom look at characters like Elain and decides they are weak because they aren't the kind of women (as per to your own words) who stood up after centuries of patriarchy. Instead of uplifting every female characters, women started tearing female characters down that they deemed boring or unimportant in the series.

Anon, there is strength in gentleness. There is strength in forgiveness, in fact according to research people who forgives tend to live longer and their hearts healthier. Just because women are feminine doesn't mean we are lesser. We have a vital role in the society, and whoever sees feminine women as lesser, are the real lesser one. Because looking down at somebody because they don't meet your standard of strength shows insecurity.

Most women are feminine anon, I think it's time for us to stop demonizing femininity. Hollywood fooled us hard, let's open our eyes, this is why it's very important to also see characters such as Elain take the lead and have her own book.

There's enough representation of girlboss character in fantasy series, and I have no complaint in that. But there's also nothing wrong in embracing your feminine side and wanting to see a representation of it on fantasy books.

And let me tell you, irl, it's not women who held guns that helped on the war, it's the women most people sees as doormat. In fact, during the WWII, men underestimated these type of women and thought of them as fragile and helpless but they are spies, anon. They became a big weapon in war. Women are capable of anything despite of their trait. It's 2023 anon, let's stop underestimating women because of their gentleness or because of their hobbies and desires in life.

Stop tearing down women (fic or not). Just because you don't relate to them doesn't mean no one does. Every kind of women can be a main character.

And this is long enough but OMG (I am trying to be calm, really) stop looking down at my sweet girl! Lol okay bye.

[beansidhebumbling]

I prefer when people just flat out dislike Nesta as opposed to the crowd who say 'I didn't like Nesta but after she repented in acosf i think she's sort of girlboss'.

Because the former just don't like her. Maybe some don't for shite reasons, some for no reason at all. But they're straight up. They're standing in it. And that's fine. No-one is forcing you to like anyone unlike how some people here like to behave.

But it's sort of rotten to me to only like a character after they've been thoroughly broken and abused by those around them in order to repent for not being sweet and *checks notes* being not nice as a child/young adult. Like ignoring Sarah's treatment of Elain and Nesta as cardboard evil sisters in acotar when they were meant to be throwaway characters and what that should mean for our judgement of their misdeeds, ignoring the dire straits they were raised in, that's just a bit cruel to say the least.

Redemption arcs of grey characters (which Nesta isn't btw but it seems this latter camp views her as such so let's indulge) aren't just exercises in suffering until you feel they've felt enough pain to earn forgiveness. Redemption arcs are journeys of discovery and growth that yes, often feature suffering, because growth often features suffering and sometimes repentance. Note that this suffering is usually triggered mainly internally through guilt.

Nesta does go on a journey of growth (of a form) through her Valkyrie stuff and suffers because of it but yay for change and all that. (Still sort of hate this story but that's a different rant).

HOWEVER this is vastly overshadowed by Nesta suffering under imposed penalties for fucking crimes that all the NC are guilty of. Penalties that amount to abuse and then there's Cassian and then there's that blasted fucking mountain baby hike. The majority of Nesta's suffering in acosf is of external application. Yes she was miserable before acosf's kick off but we don't read a story centred mainly on internally manufactured pain.

So no ACOSF isn't a Nesta redemption arc. Not every character who criticises the NC needs a redemption arc to be defined as morally good. Not every prickly female character needs a redemption arc to be liked.

Liking Nesta's sassiness and bitchiness only after she has paid for her supposed crimes means you like the aesthetic of a disobedient woman but only when she complies with all the people, structures and systems that oppress her.

[batboys-cumdumpster]

I literally don't see how she is an abuser? Could you explain why you think that? All I see is a hurt person, who was just hurting herself.

First, being on anon makes me believe that you know that Nesta abuses everyone around her.

Second, Nesta herself holds a lot of self hatred for the way she abuses others.

When Feyre is having PTSD, it's Nesta's voice she hears slut shaming her, making fun of her for being illiterate, belittiling herself, etc. Nesta's entire character is about being abusive to others bc she feels worthless. Nesta also told Elain that it was her fault their father is dead and only said it to hurt her (abuse).

Nesta moved her father's cane out of reach; abuse of a disabled man. Nesta refused to cooperate with household chores unless Feyre begged, and even then it was iffy. Nesta stole the money Feyre made as a child to spend it on frivolous shit. THEN, Nesta demanded money from Feyre in ACOFAS to pay her rent and self harming activities of fucking strangers and drinking (she manipulated Feyre into giving her money to do this by agreeing to go to Solstice).

Nesta may not have been physically abusive, but in every single book in this series Nesta has shown emotional and verbal abuse and manipulation.

Listen. I get it, I used to verbally and emotionally abuse people when I was a teenager because I didn't know how my mental health was affecting not only me but others. I have BPD and I headcanon that Nesta has it bc she displays 9/9 traits, just like I used to before therapy.

I think my biggest problem isn't with Nesta herself, it's her stans, because they refuse to see how she abuses others. Every Nesta stan I see thinks she's some "real girlboss queen" for the way she treats and view others when Nesta herself knows she is in the wrong for how she treats and views others. It's like they're afraid to admit she's done any wrong, and it just makes it all the worse. Nesta stans make me hate Nesta bc they refuse to admit she's hurt others, but then they try going on about how Feyre or Feysand/IC have hurt others and demonize them for mistakes they've made (and these mistakes are mistakes and not prolonged abuse). My other problem lies with how SJM handled ACOSF and the very cheap, empty, hollow way Nesta had her "redemption" of saving Feyre. Let them have a conversation. Make Nesta apologize for her years of abuse and refusal to help at the old house. Make Nesta actually face the consequences of her actions instead of taking a hike and making friendship bracelets with people who excuse her behavior without even knowing what the hell she even did.

I am going to include just a few screenshots that showcase her verbal/emotional abuse to others.

[hrizantemy]

not bothered reading the book again but what exactly happened in high lords meeting?

Basically to sum what happened up, they had the meeting to discuss the upcoming war and the other High Lords didn’t trust him, Tamlin came, him and Rhysand had like a little spat before, then Kallias was like “you killed children from my court” and Rhysand was like “that wasn’t me that was some OTHER guy” please be for real. Then Eris said something and Azriel attacked him and Feyre burned the Lady of autumn accidentally (I would have burned her back if it was me) and gives her some half-assed “I’m sorry” and doesn’t even say anything else and then thinks she has this girlbossing moment where she makes Azriel stop attacking Eris and sits him down and gives him wine (that’s embarrassing especially for a court official) and Nesta tells her story, a bunch of talking and then they decide to reconvene I believe.

[shadowqueenjude]

Our favorite Elain stan 🌷🦌☀️ !!

1. Why is Elain one of your favorite characters?

2. Is there a specific scene that made you like her?

3. What theories/headcanons do you have for Elain?

4. Feel free to share anything else about Elain that the questions didn’t cover!

Thank you for the ask!

1. As much as I love a badass warrior woman, there’s something about a woman who sees the good in others, has charisma, and emotional intelligence that just speaks to me. Elain reflects many “traditionally feminine” traits that are often shit on, so it’s amazing to see the strength she holds within herself and the power of solving things via diplomacy rather than fighting (considering the current political climate we DEFO need a lot more of that). While my personality is closer to Nesta’s, I seriously relate to Elain as a younger sibling (I know Elain isn’t technically the youngest but she’s treated like the youngest)

2. I love the scene after she kills the King of Hybern where she’s talking with Lucien, because it showed that while both Lucien and Elain will do what they must to protect their own, they are peaceful at heart. I also love that scene where Nesta is bitching (for lack of a better term) at her in ACOSF and she was just totally unfazed, laughing it off. It shows that she’s got sass in there that we’ll see when she’s in the right place.

3. Theories I have is that Elain will possess earth magic and healing magic along with her Seer magic, and she will be instrumental in healing the Spring Court, the Dusk Court, and the Middle. Basically all the “dead” areas of Prythian.

One of my own personal headcanons is that Elain is a guardian of “unloved creatures,” so to speak. Snakes were often associated with seers and Elain spends a lot of time in gardens, so I see her with a bunch of pet snakes that like to hang out on her arms and neck. She also has a pet tarantula.

4. I love that everyone is embracing Weird Girl Elain now. I mean, come on. She’s a seer, and the first time she spoke to Lucien she told him she could hear his heart. Plus we’ve already seen her being sneaky in the books. I think a lot of “Elain stans” (you know who) will be disappointed when Elain isn’t a girlboss spy and is instead the strangest high lady Prythian has ever seen, bagging Lucien with her weird girl rizz.

[shi-daisy]

Tamlins character assassination genuinely bothered me, to have his character turn abusive isnt inherently bad but having him get constantly shat on while ryhsand continues to be genuinely vile and horrid to feryre, tamlin just seems more sympathetic the more i pick apart why feyre and rhys suck ASS. sjm does not get to sit there and act like Nesta was evil and awful as she got constantly belittled and shat on for her COPING Mechanisms and that Nesta is the one who has to apologize to the inner circle despite the way ALL of them treated her and expect me not to think she just failed with tamlin as well, she keeps writing characters she wants me to think are bad while not acknowledging that the characters she loves ARE VERY BAD IF NOT MUCH WORSE.

Anon are we lost twins by any chance? Lol kidding, but you've just voiced the exact reason why Feysand (and by extension sjm who wrote them) piss me the fuck off!

Tamlin's story reads like a damn tragedy. Abusive father and brothers, a mom who loved him but couldn't do anything to protect him, he's resigned to not get the court and tried to go unoticed to stay safe then once he finally makes a new friend his family ruin that friend's life, he loses his mother due to the family fued, is forced to be the ruler of a nation when he has no idea how and still pulls through. Then gets hounded by Amrantha and cursed. Has to lose another friend to break the curse. Finally finds true love and even after attempting to protect her she nearly dies. He had to rebuild the court and support his fiance while still suffering from ptsd himself and so he fucks up royally, said fuck up costs him his relationship, his bestie and his court and now he has nothing.

And I'm supposed to cheer for this? I'm supposed to accept this as a fitting end to my favorite character? Nope, not gonna happen. Not when Rhysand can commit multiple war crimes and treat people like shit and Feyre can ruin a court and half of another cuz she mad at Tamlin and wanted to girlboss. (Girl stop acting like an edgy 13 year old, people are dead and you have the intelligence of cabbage head.)

Oh and yes the way they treated Nesta was worse than anything Tamlin ever did yet we're supposed to think they healed her? Tamlin locked Feyre up cuz he was irrationally afraid of her getting hurt. They looked Nesta up cuz she spent 0.000001% of their wealth and calls Rhysand an ass to his face. Guess who I'm gonna side with?!

Sarah is too into Rhysand and so anyhting he and Feyre do is justified but anyone else can go choke. It's the reason I dropped the books after ACOFAS (Tamlin's scene there had me crying and I had to yeet the book away)

Tamlin needs a redemption, but written by anyone other than SJM. She will ruin him like she did Nesta.

[elains]

Is CC3 bad? I’ve heard it’s not very good at all

It all depends on perspective of who is reading, I believe. I would say that if you loved HOSAB and HOEAB, there's a chance you could genuinely like HOFAS too. But my objective opinion is that the book is not great and falls short on many points

Some more spoilers and the TLDR below.

The first half of this book drags. Sure, there are things happening, but my general impression reading is that it was slow-paced, dragging, and rather awkward. We get some gratuitous torture porn to see how sadistic Pollux and the Hawk are, the Frat Boys are going around and want to get Ruhn out. In all fairness, having so many PoVs and where they cut was sometimes a problem to me: something exciting was about to happen, then cut to a section which was comparatively boring and then more pages until I got my resolution.

The Crossover is CRIMINAL. Anon, I'm a lore girl at heart. I was super looking forward to what it would reveal of Prythian's past, of what happened to Fionn, Theia, the Daglan. Nesta and Azriel are easily the highlight of it, their interactions where the breath of fresh air in what was otherwise a slog to get through. The Crossover is one single HUGE loredump and you know what's more? By the end of it you ask "And this needed to be a Crossover why exactly?".

There's nothing there that couldn't be learned from the Midgard or the Prythian. I kinda think SJMs ran into a corner by ending HOSAB as she did. It feels as though the crossover was meant to be bigger, but it fell flat, and she had to course-correct. To be honest, it was a bit of a chore to get through these parts.

Bryce is also a personal problem to me because I cannot just connect with her. I would have liked much better if more of her human side was explored, rather than the fae, as the humans are the most oppressed and have it worst here. I don't know, her desire for change and everything feels shallow. Hollow. As if she would never have gone down this path had Danika not died — and I could accept that, if I thought it wasn't framed for me to think of her as heroic and not a hypocrite. There IS such a thing as too much girlboss.

Ruhn and Lidia are the highlight of this book for me. I love them in HOSAB, I love them in this one despite some things coming right out of left field lol. Still! Definitely the two characters I enjoyed most.

I know Sarah wanted to try to tackle some big social issues but look. Would you get if I say that the girlboss slips into it? The way she handles these topics, the tone of them, doesn't land right for me. Someone shouting words of change and order, but look a little more closely, dig a little, question, and it's just superficial. In your face, with not the appropriate nuance. Bryce's general attitude does not help.

Oh and there's one hell of a cliche in the end that had me ROLLING MY EYES. Unnecessary. The resolution also feels rushed to me and there are things that I just stared blankly at the book "Is this for real?". Once again, I think she raised the stakes waaaaay too high and the resolution doesn't match them, the same issue I had acowar.

All in all, this book was a let down from HOSAB.

[gwyns]

Where did the theory of the cauldron-made bond and the mother-made bond come from? If you question the Elucien bond, then shouldn’t you also be questioning Nessian? Same with the spy theory for Elain; where did that come from?

they originated from e/riels' copium dens

on a serious note, the cauldron bond stems from the cauldron finding elain lovely or whatever and basically just favoring her. e/riels conclude that since it likes her so much, it gave her a bond that wasn't the absolute best choice for her and her real mate is azriel. makes total sense, right? also that it's corrupted because of things mentioned in crescent city. but the corruption only affects the elucien bond, not feysand or nessian or any of the other known bonds in the series. why? because ✨ reasons ✨

the mother bond is... much of the same i'm guessing. but i really don't understand it because isn't it heavily implied in acosf that it's the mother guiding nesta? seems like they're just stealing from other characters again

now the spy theory has been around since pre acosf, i'll give them that, but it's only a thing because they seem to think elain is this secret, murderous, sleuth-y girlboss and that she has to share the same traits as her beloved emo bat. elain having a personality of her own? bah! who needs that when you can have the romantic tension of boiling water 🩷

[nikethestatue]

In my opinion people hate acofas for three reasons: 1. Feyre deciding to start trying for a baby with Rhys. They can’t stand that she became a young mother and that hatred continues to this day. 2. Elriel moments. Elucien was officially dead in the water and elriel was sailing. 3. Characters, especially Rhys, being mean to their favs. Whether it’s Tamlin or Nesta.

I know the fandom changed a lot in 2021 and that was the beginning of the end, but I also think you can trace a lot it back to 2018. I noticed people started getting more “anti” Feysand (because of Rhys’s “meanness” and for the pregnancy decision). Which continues to this day, people think Rhys was too mean in ACOSF and people belittle Feyre and hate that she had a baby in ACOSF, and they call her horrible misogynistic things. Obviously some people didn’t like elriel then and they hate them now. People started to feel sympathy for Tamlin then and they stan him now. People started to be “team Nesta” or “team Feyre” and I know you love Nesta but I think there is now a type of “Nesta stan” now that… we all know about and avoid lol. So I think these factions have roots in the ACOFAS era. It’s just x100 now. In my mind, the fandom falls into two categories. Category 1 is feysand lovers, elriel lovers, people who look at the text closely and have high reading comprehension, people who love most or all the main characters, dislike ACOSF, like ACOFAS, favorite book is ACOMAF.. and category 2 is gwynriel lovers, Nesta stans, people who yap a lot on tik tok, come up with crack theories they believe aren’t crack, people who read too much into certain phrases, people who hate the main characters except like 2, Azriel stans, favorite book is ACOSF, hate ACOFAS. I know not everyone falls into these categories but I think ACOFAS was the start of this divide.

All this to say I think the hate for ACOFAS is based on pretty petty, and sometimes harmful, reasons. I don’t really think it’s based on “there was no plot.” I think they didn’t like the direction acotar was going in that everyone didn’t girlboss their way into the sunset, and there remained conflicts between characters and feysand was starting the next chapter of their immortal lives. I love ACOFAS and it’s a red flag to me if someone hates it.

I think I would agree with this. I think the fraction of Feyre vs Nesta became pretty apparent after ACOFAS.

Overall, I've come to realize that Elriel and Feysand stans are more cerebral in their reactions and their arguments. Gwynriel and Nessian are intensely emotional, where 'feelings' trump any rationality and common sense, and forget canon. And Eluciens only care about Lucien, so everything else is irrelevant. That's why 94% of all debates end up with Gwynriels blocking the other person, because emotions take over and it's as if they can't deal with the argument.

To me, the whole 'don't read ACOFAS it has nothing to offer!' call to action from GAs is very telling. I, or any Elriel, would NEVER and have NEVER told a new reader not to read ACOSF or Azriel's bonus. We don't care. We have enough evidence that we don't need to hide a whole book because the book is 'inconvenient' towards our ship.

Elriels also don't prosthelytize on every platform and preach the Gospel of Elriel. We don't care. We don't descend in droves on every newbie and start screaming 'BUT DID YOU READ THE BONUS CHAPTER!?!?!" Elriel is endgame regardless of how many faithful adherents it has. We just enjoy the pairing because it's a good pairing. And it's canon.

[theladyofbloodshed]

Sjm and her husband Josh are not Feysand. Sjm and Rhys are certainly Feysand.

Tog and CC are written in 3 person close while acotar, from Feyre's POV is written in first person. Even Nesta is written in third person. That may not be such a big deal until you remember that Feyre is always the one telling us how powerful, beautiful, nice etc. Rhys is. The whole time she's just bragging about how Rhys is the best mate she could wish for and how good the sex is. Now that we're getting other characters stories, Rhys is always the one being heavily involved in these stories while Feyre is always just the artist who has paint on her clothes or the pregnant lady. Who is the most beautiful person Aelin had aways seen and is the one helping her get back home? Who is the one person that legit looks like her brother and can be the one to help her win the war + communicating with her through the old language? Not Feyre.

Throughout the series always felt like Feyre is a f*cking camera, just filming Rhys rather than an equal to Rhys. I can think of Aelin as one person or even Bryce, but Feyre? When I think of Feyre, Rhys is always beside her. It has never been her alone. Sis has no world outside of Rhys ever since she met him.

Not to mention the girlbossing moments Feyre had. It feels like Sarah wants to do these kind of moments 😭

She's definitely self inserting herself to Feyre. Her POV always sounds like Sjm is talking.

Anon, you are so right about Feyre literally just filming rhys and monologuing about how beautiful and special he is!!

[goblins-riddles-or-frocks]

How did you feel about Feyre and Nesta?

Essentially: meh

In ACOTAR Feyre is like Katniss Everdeen ported over into a DnD world, but she’s just… very fucking dumb? And from ACOMAF on she’s kind of just whatever is plot convenient in a girlboss but waifish way

And Nesta was introduced as such a cardboard cutout evil stepsister, that I could just never care about her, even when SJM attempts to give her some depth later. I thought she was okay in the brief cameo she had in the Crescent City book though

I just never liked or particularly cared about anyone in the series. But I got pretty angry with how Feyre is basically literally barefoot and pregnant by the end, considering the supposed feminist trappings of the story?

I never read the Nesta book myself, and probably will not, but that point in the story where it looks like Feyre’s pregnancy is going to kill her but no one is allowed to tell her because Rhysand thinks it would upset her delicate sensibilities?? SJM I am in your fucking walls