#Menelaus of Sparta

[vor-leser]

as much as i dislike agamemnon as a guy, all the songs in paris the musical where he causes drama are genuinely some of the best (greek camp, paris in court and business my beloved <3)

[roseblack12]

Menelaus wiping away his tears with his purple cloak

[bugbear55]

WOOOOOOO

[katerinaaqu]

Why did Helen choose to torment the Greek Warriors inside the Trojan Horse? (An Odyssey Analysis)

Okay so here is a conundrum that seems to be quite interesting in homeric poems. One of them seems to be Helen's behavior before the sacking of Troy. Menelaus informs us and Telemachus on the events of the night before taking Troy and speaks on the moment where Helen knocks on the Trojan Horse and calls upon the Greek warriors inside imitating the voices of their wives.

Three times you circled the hollow ambush and out of the best of the Danaans you called the names and all the Argives heard the voices of their spouses. Nevertheless I and the son of Tydeus and the godly Odysseus heard you as you called out and while we two were eager to rush out and act to our sudden urge, Odysseus though held us back and restrained us despite our eagerness. Then all the other sons of Achaeans endured apart from Anticlus wanted to respond to your call but Odysseus placed his hand upon his mouth non-stop and strongly and thus saving all the Achaeans until Athena Pallas led you away

(Translation by me)

So basically here we see a very cruel act right? Helen knows the Argives were away from home and their wives way too long, over a decade so why would she play such a cruel game to them and call upon them by using the voices of their wives? It seems unnecessarily cruel at some point especially since she did express the need to go back to her husband already a year prior during the events of Iliad.

So here are a couple of explanations for it.

So for many I would epxect this would be something one might consider inconsistency at writing which leads many people to turn to the "different writer" trope. Quite honestly I can see why and as a hypothesis is really valid or maybe if one takes the hypothesis that Odyssey was witten way after the Iliad that the author himself changed his mind on some stuff or reconsidered his sources etc.

However let's hypothesize for one second that this is a logical continuation of the story and character development (yeah I am not convinced on the different writer theory, fight me! XD) and let's just think for a second the context of the scene based on what we know from the Iliad and the Epic Cycle in general.

We know that Helen lived in Troy a decade (yes for the "20 years theory" I have answered an ask here). She knew these people for a long time. We also know from the Iliad as she stood next to Priam, giving him information about the Greek leaders and kings and we know that she was not judged by him or any other of the Trojans. If anything she was blaming herself quite a lot for it. Even in the funeral of Hector she expresses her love for him (not romantic love guys) and her respect for him. She had no real hate for the Trojans even if she already had a change of heart or Aphrodite's spell on her had weakened. For the reasons why she stayed I also answered another ask right here but apart from that reason we know she wanted to go home so why did she do that to the Greeks? Well in the same scene Menelaus seems to be excusing his wife and he presents this very interesting explanation as to why she did it:

And then you came there: called by some god, no doubt, who wished to extend the glory of the Trojans

(Translation by me)

Menelaus seems to be excusing his wife once more and presents the hypothesis that Helen was inspired by some god or goddess (δαίμων) to go and disturb the Greeks inside the horse. Helen doesn't deny it but doesn;t confirm it either. In fact Telemachus speaks soon after and Helen orders the slaves to prepare stuff. The conversation on this subject seems to end there. So the one explanation could be that indeed Menelaus is correct and that Helen was once more either coersed or blackmailed by a god, potentially Aphrodite again, even if not mentioned, and went to the Greeks and tried to lure them out for the sakes of that god that wished better for Troy. It stands as an explanation as well.

However let's make things more spicy and let's assume that Helen was not influenced by divine intervention by the gods and instead it was her own free will to do what she did. If yes then why? So here's a hypothesis. Before in her narration Helen talks about how she met Odysseus and recognized him in his disguise. She also mentions how Odysseus informs her on the plan to take Troy:

And then he entrusted me everything he had in mind for the Achaeans

(translation by me)

How much he told her is not clear. Did he already have in mind to make the horse so he tells her that? Maybe he warns her on the one day that the Achaeans shall enter the city without speaking on precice details? Either way Helen would know Odysseus was up for some ploy and she knew she had to act fast. Menelaus also mentions how Deiphobos was with her at that time (how Menelaus knew? Well probably Helen told him). So immediately if Helen had a reason to do what she did, we have two reasons;

She wanted to persuade Deiphobos on her loyalty to Troy. Arguably when Odysseus escaped, as Helen said, he killed many Trojans on his way out. Most likely her loyalty must have been questioned at that tensed time thus being accompanied by her new husband all the time. By doing this, ellegedly tormenting the Greeks, was showing to Deiphobos her loyalty to Troy (manipulating him into believing that she was on their side) plus showing him like "See? Nothing here. No danger whatsoever". She probably knew already Odysseus would be inside and he wouldn't fall for her trick and she trusted him and her husband to hold the rest of the Achaeans inside the horse so they wouldn't cry out. So not only did she show to Deiphobos that she was on Trojan side but also manipulated him into believing indeed there was no danger.

Two, this part is the best, in my opinion, she was signaling to the GREEKS inside the horse. She called them all by name by immitating their wives. More or less tells to them that she KNOWS and that she knows EXACTLY who they are and who their families are, and that she could have betrayed them at any moment if she wanted to but she chose not to because she was on their side. Like that she would have more hopes not to be killed by vengeful Greeks during the siege of Troy or her daughter by Paris, Helen, and ensure her and her daughter's safety. Also signaling her change of heart in person to them.

Conclusions:

Like I said before I do not believe Odyssey was written by a different author altogether and Odyssey itself gives us some very good explanations on Helen's behavior. I am actually willing to side with my second hypothesis. Perhaps Menelaus was talking literally when mentioning a god but I tend to believe he was more like metaphorical. In an essence "what's gotten into you?" manner. However I tend to believe that regardless of whether there was or wasn't a godly intervention in Helen's behavior, Helen is extremely intelligent and she knows that after the fuss Odysseus caused (literally a Greek spy in Troy, possibly two if we count Diomedes too) that got in, stole the Palladium of Athena and killed people on their way out might as well throw suspicion on her and she needed to make sure she would continue have the love of Priam, which was literally her shield of protection at that moment. Two she knew that her husband was coming for her and that he was potentially furious and if it wasn't him, some other of the Greeks would be or they would get battle-drunk with their success. She wasn't going to rely only on Odysseus's silver tongue that he persuaded the Greeks on her change of heart but she wanted to make sure that they knew on her talents and power and the way that she could literally give them away at any moment and that she chooses not to because she is Greek like them and because she had a change of heart!

I hope you find this analysis interesting! Let me know in the comments below! I'd love to hear your thoughts! ^_^

[elianzis]

She was my light

[ask-legacy-of-the-gods]

A version of the Warrior Penelope AU where instead of everything being swapped, it’s just an AU where Odysseus successfully made everyone believe he went mad and didn’t go to war but Penelope went instead because she’s damn pissed that someone kidnapped her cousin.

Also because Menelaus is not about to disrespect Penelope of Sparta.

[akekiitaz]

Hard not to sympathize with the Greeks when menelaus says SHE WAS MY LIGHT BUT SOME THIEF IN THE NIGHT HAS TAKEN HER AND LEFT ME BLIND

[emmikay]

Menelaus: What's your blood type?

Odysseus: How would I know?

Menelaus: How would you not?

Odysseus: Who am I, Karl Landsteiner, discoverer of blood types?

Menelaus: You don't know your own blood type, but you know who discovered them?

[minlicious]

“i’m team paris x helen!” “i’m team menelaus x helen!” cowards. real ones ship both or paris x helen x menelaus.

[dilfaeneas]

My rarepair has been in my mind a lot at the moment. Menelaus x Helenus because maybe these King's can relax while their wives are together. I have many thoughts about them godbless

[hatreus]

i wrote a short little menelaiad-inspired thing on ao3 if anyone wants to read it

some nice helen/menelaus introspective stuff

[johaerys-writes]

The Troy movie kills off Menelaus. Agree or disagree with the script change?

There is literally NO script change in the Troy movie that I agree with lmao, and Menelaus dying is no exception. Like where do I even begin? From the fact that it is blatantly incorrect? That it completely disregards and throws in the trash Menelaus' later role in the Iliad? That he is supposed to protect and carry Patroclus' body back to the camp (hello??) That he is supposed to survive the war and take Helen back to Sparta (an important detail of the Epic Cycle), and then also appear in the Odyssey to welcome Telemachus and his crew in his home? Like who is supposed to do all those things if Menelaus is dead?

And, okay, let's say that the directors of a shitty Hollywood movie don't give a shit about all that. You have Menelaus of Sparta, the owner of the finest thighs in the Achaean army, be killed by Hector?? Fucking-- Hector? Like I'm willing to forgive a lot but this is just irredeemable. First of all, Hector would never. To have him intercept the duel that is meant to decide the course of the war and which was agreed upon by both sides, to save his bro from supposedly ruthless, bloodthirsty Menelaus? That's just such nonsense characterisation and something unthinkable in the world of the Iliad, a transgression permissible only to a god-- which is what actually happens in the story. Like, I really don't know if Hector or Paris would have been able to go back to Troy and face the Trojan soldiers after having done something like that. The fact that Paris violated Menelaus' hospitality and took off with Helen is a huge thing all by itself, but the fact that Aphrodite had a hand in it is what makes it somewhat acceptable; to have their princes disgrace and humiliate themselves and Troy as a whole like that I think would be a step too far. How the directors even thought of changing something so basic is beyond me.

Second of all, the Troy movie's obsession with framing Hector as the ultimate, most noblest heroic hero PISSES ME OFF like nothing else. As I've said in a previous ask, there are no "heroes" in the modern sense in the Iliad. "Hero" in the Iliad simply means a warrior, a person who does things. The Trojans and the Greeks are similar in customs, battle prowess, culture and refinement despite the infighting and constant bickering of both sides, and despite the fact that the Achaeans are in an imperialistic war against the Trojans. I've heard the argument that the Achaeans are the "barbaric invaders" and the Trojans the "noble invaded" far too often and I simply disagree, this has never been my takeaway while reading the Iliad. Hector, although he's Troy's most powerful, illustrious, loyal defender, a god-honouring person who is kind to his wife, his child, his aging father and mother (there's a lot to sympathise with when it comes to his character), is just as foolhardy, self-important, stubborn, opportunistic and human as any of the Achaeans he interacts with, he isn’t portrayed as being "morally superior" than them in any way because such a thing is irrelevant in the Iliad. It's just not the point of the Iliad to put anyone on a pedestal and elevate them above the others, the humans in the story take a lot of risks and initiatives and their personal struggles matter, but at the end of the day they are all ultimately powerless against the forces of fate and the will of the gods.

TL;DR: to have Menelaus die in the film, and die in such an idiotic way, is a weak-ass, pathetic move that shows no respect for the source material whatsoever, or any of the central characters.

Thanks for the ask! 💙

[bugbear55]

im on my rarepair bullshit and fear this train is my new home. All done for tonight but with tomorrow comes a new batch of ship doodles, keep them coming

[katerinaaqu]

Take a moment to cry at how incredibly depressed Menelaus was. He admits that Telemachus is a spitting image of his father (noting his arms etc even the expression in his eyes being identical), he knew the guy for decades (from their youth from the Oath of Tyndareus till the 10 years of war at Troy) and yet he didn't recognize Telemachus 😭😭😭

Homer could have written Menelaus mistaking Telemachus for Odysseus and rushing at him or something but no! He did something better!

Menelaus was so depressed and sad for thinking Odysseus perished or imprisoned by Calypso that he looked Telemachus in the eye, spoke to him and STILL didn't see Odysseus in him and he needed Helen to point out the family resemblance! That level of depression is just amazingly written! 😭😭😭

Menelaus deserves more love and analysis!

[elianzis]

She was my light

But some thief in the night

Has taken her

And left me blind

I can't...these lines from Menelaus about Helen in "the thief in the night"...UGH💔