#ML Andre

[uptoolateart]

Back when Gabriel had that conversation with Andre, about the past...that was so interesting, seeing the way those two power houses were once just two young, ordinary people with all these dreams...and knowing how they ended up.

Gabriel says, 'Come on. You have everything to be happy, Andre.' Perhaps part of this is because Andre has his wife, whereas Gabriel lost his. But Gabriel knows what a horror Audrey is - not to mention how difficult Chloe is - which I think is why he wears a little smirk on his face as he says it.

To me, the line feels ironic, like he's talking about Andre, but we need to ask ourselves about Gabriel's happiness, and how he defines 'happy'.

At the end of Re-Creation, he tells Marinette how happy he once was, when Emilie was in the world and Adrien was first born. He describes it as 'perfect' and seems to think happiness depends upon having things/people.

He misses the point that we make our own happiness. The world could be falling apart around us, and we still have the power to choose happiness (except in certain extenuating circumstances). Sure, there are some times when this is harder than others. But I really do believe the sun is always there behind the clouds, no matter how thick and stormy.

Although Gabriel believes he can have happiness again, this is all dependent upon recreating the past he's lost. I think this is part of why the S5 finale was called Re-Creation - not just because he made the world anew, but because he was trying to bring something back.

But it simply could not work. We can never fully replicate days gone by. We can't relive precious moments. We can't read a book for the first time, all over again. We can't meet people again. Things will always be different. The past is just that - it's passed.

And you know, when we see him talk about Emilie sometimes in earlier seasons, he doesn't always say nice things about her. He says she was 'way too overly dramatic' and mentions she had a fiery temper. It wasn't as 'perfect' as he insists it was. Nothing can be. He's holding onto an illusion.

Andre seems to get all of this. Gabriel doesn't. Andre mourns what's gone. Gabriel refuses to mourn, refuses to move forward. He believes he will make his wish and then have everything he needs to be happy.

But if he'd succeeded in bringing Emilie back, and he'd lived, I suspect he still wouldn't have been happy, because he never really knew how. He never understood that he should've been seeking a way to be happy despite what happened to him. Even with Emilie gone, he already had everything he needed to be happy - Adrien and Nathalie. The sun was there, but he chose to focus on the clouds.

[plumsaffron]

The Fate Of Making Lila Become No.1 Part 2/2

Marinette: What are you talking about?

You're just breathing nonsense. You have to be a kid.

*In fear or hesitation* Lila: That may be true but if that's not,

then that sucks for many of you. Marinette: How could you say this like this is a joke?!

*As she's concerned and frustated* Lila: I remember Hawk Moth said he'd teach some kids what a man that has nothing left to lose can really do. Like you, I'm immune to being hurt. I learned to let go. 

Why are you offended? Don’t you feel venerated by me exposing myself?  You're getting what you wanted after all, all along. Marinette: (She's terrifying me. Maybe I did make a huge mistake. 

How would she know of what he said to uh m- um Ladybug and Cat Noir?)

Lila: Reconsideration from the inconsiderate? Too bad it's too late. *As she turns her head*

Marinette: What are you looking at? And she turns her head Marinette immediately jets towards them ADRIEN! ALYA! As she reaches the two in bad shape WHAT HAPPENED?! Alya: I I I... I... ...don't know. It's like... loses consciousness Adrien: I feel like my body... No... Marinette is horrified seeing part of his arm became ash grain Marinette: Did Cat Noir?! Adrien: No, he wasn't even present. 

I don't know... What h- I wish I... protect y- loses consiousness

Marinette: ADRIEN! No this can't be happening! sees Alya's shoes and her left shin fragment with ashes ( Lila: Thanks for The Number One Headband. Marinette: What?! How?! What is that?

And why is this other one on the floor?!

Lila: Ah, that's The Number Two Headband by your feet?

Even if you didn't know what language that said,

I think common sense would tell you the difference between 1 & 2. 

Marinette: I had The Number One Headband? Lila: Technically Monarch did but it seems it was given away to you. I wonder what you did that would make you earn it?

I would expect Ladybug to have it but I guess there’s something really unique about you.

I’ve always been branded with Number Two for reasons based upon you or outsiders.

Unfortunately, it seems I've been branded as Number One now. And this is the fate you are seeing of your friends. 

All thanks to you and your outsiders wanting stuff against me that never needed to exist. 

You and their sharing obsessive ways against me. Stupid challenges and you guys gained stupid prizes. Marinette: Did you make all of this happen? Did you ruin everything?

Lila: The answer is in the mirror. Marinette: I don't have time for your stupid riddles. Lila: The answer is yes and no.

Marinette: Stop playing around! I am so sick of you! Answer me, NOW! Lila shakes her head Lila: Because I existed, this happened. But I did not cause this. It was the outsiders and how they value you, 

or see somethings that triggered them.

That is why your friends faced this fate. Marinette confused and sad Marinette: But why? Why would they do this? Lila: I told you why earlier. Think about it.

And there's plenty more if you didn't catch on. Marinette seeing more of friends distances away around her in similar states

Marinette: No, this isn't real. (This has to be a nightmare.) 

Sulking and then sees Harmonie crying on bed of ashes Marinette begins to cry Lila moves her head down and starts laughing at the revelations Marinette is witnessing Marinette: Devil Incarnate! as she opens her teary eyes in fury at Lila's laughter

She dashes to grab her shoulder, pinching or squeezing it Marinette: HOW CAN YOU BE THIS AWFUL! LAUGHING AT THIS SUFFERING! YOU ONLY CARE ABOUT YOURSELF! Lila: You're assumptions make me laugh stronger and further.

You'll never change. FFFFAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA... Marinette fists clench as she's seeing Lila head rotates upwards while still laughing at her sorrow Marinette: What part of not funny do you not understand?! Lila smiles knowing the crying Marinette is going to hit her. 

Punches her face and Lila bounces a few times

After several seconds she starts laughing and gets up Lila: You lost and are so lost. But it's okay because the outsiders see everything you do as a favor to both worlds. So this moment you commit something like this or above, it’s a peak victory. 

She starts giving her applause

continuously remains clapping Marinette: Stop this, you are annoying me. As she’s wiping her tears Lila: Lets give it up to the annoyer that now chooses to be annoyed. Keep giving the outsiders what they want! Marinette: I said Stop Clapping! Lila: Look out, an arrow coming your way.

Marinette: Like I'd bel- dodges while freaked out Marinette: (What was that?!) You knew this? Why would you...? Lila: That's not important. I guess you have not noticed you've been hit or darted. Marinette: What, what do you mean? Lila: Look around yourself. Marinette is disturbed at seeing them darts Shouldn’t I feel this? (Why is this not hurting me?) Lila: Same reason you or mostly they, 

decide to notice me and not anything else around, 

or in your face, or that has been well established. Isn't it funny what you did against me and Chloe with Sabrina's help, but you wanna complain about Chloe sending your former teacher to the office, yet you both caused Juleka to suffer greatly?

Lila: I thought you considered stealing Adrien's phone a crime that would jail you for life. But hey, forging twice is cool as long as you blame shift. Privacy invasion and humiliation is a merciful act of friendship and harmony. Marinette: How do you know of something that specific in my past. (OH NO! SHE MUST KNOW OF MY DIARY!) Squirming Marinette

Lila: You need to chill.

Nah, you never could unless things go as you want. 

Observe what happened due to your failure to chill, control freak.

Both observing Parisians with stuff piercing around their bodies Marinette runs towards one and asks what happened One said these arrows and shape objects spawned out of nowhere and they weren't able to dodge and they aren't able to remove it Lila: Now are you understanding what's going on? Marinette runs towards The Ice Cream Man Andre: Nooooo. My precious desserts for couples has become all ash.

All of my supplies are in ashes. I just wanted to give products of love to the people. Marinette: I'm sorry this is happening to you. Can I- Lila: LOL, why are you sorry?

This person doesn't even care of verifying if his food is safe. Marinette: I and no one here suffered from his products made with love and kindness. Lila: Oh lookie here at what happened to who called him out.

She sees on video billboard some clothes floating on a lake of ashes Dupain Cheng is horrified Lila: I guess the world that was happy with her departure never expected this. Sucks this is the fate the poor thing that used to be a fan of The Bug. I wonder why this happened or why the outsiders would do this.

Certain outsiders are celebrating this.

Though I guess since the clothes didn't perish at all, it must mean there are still enough outsiders there for her in this time of unfortunate circumstances bestowed against her. Actually I already know the answer. Marinette: I didn't mean for this is happen. Lila: Seems you are finally understanding what the outsiders are.

*walking* Marinette: Where are you going?

Lila: Hey Theo. Could you take me out for lunch? *winks twice while smiling* Theo: Umm... Okay. He walks away Marinette: Did you just ask him to go on a date? Lila: I asked if he can take me to somewhere that has good food. Hmmmmmmm And so she begins laughing with her mouth closed Marinette: Oh no... Lila: Do you know how old he is? Marinette: Uh umm? What's with this age question? Why do you keep talking about ages? Where are you going with this?! Lila: I thought he was like some janitor of the school or some teacher assistant. Apparently he's like around 16 to 18. He might be an adult or not. 

He's like how the outsiders now want for me for real to be but got angry he apparently isn't not. 

It's a long story. 

However, like I said, he's around of from earlier for real. 

It’s understandable why but not why they would want the very thing they hated of him to be known; 

to now wish to be instilled in reverse upon me. 

It’s almost like they want to ignore that I was clearly the friend Adrien's age.

Lila: But since they want to seek the opposite now, that means me and Theo could be a cute couple instead of that other girl, below your grade, that he held hands with once with in a digital realm. Marinette: Uugck YUCK You're... I- I CANNOT! YOU! GRITTING HER TEETH Lila: What's wrong with that? Some outsiders pair me up with Mr. Agreste and will gain stronger excuses for me to be with everyone than before. I heard that Ladybug say she was older than a high schooler to for some reason. Don’t be upset at what you hear. Be upset at Old World society. I wonder if the city of love normalizes 15 year olds with 20 to 26 at least year olds in romantic galore too. Marinette: WHAT?! WHO WHY!? Who are these outsiders you speak of?! Lila: People like you on a much higher plain of your toxic ways.

Marinette: You're body. It's-

Lila: Rotting? Of course it is.

It’s not far away because they always want me to rot. It's their will or sole purpose.

However, as you see, for some reason… 

I'm not falling apart like your friends. I am still intact. 

I wonder why you are though? In fact, it's like endless ashes for me. Marinette: But why wasn't Theo attacked like you, me, and the others?

Lila: Outsiders have strange priorities of proxying individuals and ignoring others. Even if they are and do worse. I'm their main charm to chastise. He's ignored. People decide when to brush things off and when to foam like you. Marinette: You don't even sound like Lila. Are you possessed or controlled? Lila: Ah... This what happens when an ultimate gains outsider insight about or from outsiders. Marinette: So you're speaking like an outsider? Lila: Likewise. I'd say, you seem less unstable than usual but there's always something that cracks you it seems. Earlier you were disgusted. Earlier you were aggressive and sad. How you instantly change or glitch. Momentary Marinette. Marinette: What do you want? Why are you making me aware of this? 

What is your goal? Your purpose? Motive?

Lila: Giving you all what you want and showing you all the fallen sanctuaries of your stupidities. 

Showing you all the failure of only seeing things of reform, redeem, lock away, or death. 

Lila: This is just The Bitterness Of Truth that needs to be known.

Other outsiders wish your friends didn’t face penalties that many outsiders unfortunately pinned on them due to me.

Still, they at times help the markers flourish due to them not looking the consequences of how many think against me.

This may be due to how they also accidentally agreed upon me in questions to me being the scapegoat or as so many outsiders kin of original sin. Marinette: What do you mean end their chapter? You mean... as she covers her mouth

Lila: That...is the power of my existence. It causes divine instability amongst the outsiders. Making them lose their minds over me beyond you. They shall pick purposely when see things black and white. Many take eyes for an eye and will or wish of making anything happen, while yearning for destruction to anyone that doesn't fit your mantra or their mantra. But why would you care? They're doing you a favor. Making sure and wanting any way that discredits me completely. Even though I know the real truth and you and Ladybug must know the real truth.

Lila: No matter what is done towards me. It takes next to nothing for me to easily be turned against. Rebounding hurts them.

All else, this is harder. Still, I find it amusing how Ladybug's greatest deception is nothing but a speck of dust compared to me.

Or that it took that long for the gullible outsiders to reconsider that she screwed up royally and had a history of epic screwing of allies or friends.

Oh the denial and masking. Masking? I guess outsiders are quite heroic like Ladybug or you. Only around a few or speck amounts that truly see me in a distinctive way or see it's not like most going out their ironic deceiving ways to portray things as. MARINETTE: KAGAMI! Zooms towards her She sees Kagami tears running of ashes

Kagami: Why, Marinette. Why did you do that to Lila? Marinette: I- She. She was a bad person. I did what I had to do. Kagami: You're lying. Marinette shattered from her words Marinette: I- I was... protecting my friends. And you. 

Kagami: No you weren't. Do you not remember, she was my friend? I thought... You said you would listen to your friends.

I thought you said my words reminded me of what Alya told me. I thought that you would…change. Kagami: Instead, you only thought of yourself. And now she's gone...because of you. Adrien made me put my trust in you.

That you were everything. Everything special and a true friend.

My best friend. I...was... Irrational. *That word gave Dupain Cheng a chill*

Kagami: What about those that meant something to her? 

All because- 

because you refused to accept or ignore her. 

I ignored Chloe. I don’t engage with her. 

What's your excuse with Lila? I... Can't… Is Ladybug why Chloe changed...?

Was this because of me? Because I liked Adrien...?

Marinette: No no. It’s not what you- I um It wasn’t...

Kagami: Lila was right...

I should have never let you… And Adrien...break me apart. Marinette: KAGAMI! KAGAMI! GET UP! PLEASE! She's not breathing just endless watering ashes from her shut eyes

Lila: Poor girl. Sad thing about her is that outsiders found new ways to make it out like she's your betrayer. And that's basically one of the reasons why she...

They did the same to call her Adrien’s betrayer. Though that’s more understandable, but it seems they forgot the both of you made her feel that you are the jewel to everything. Kind of like Ladybug is the only jewel Parisians feel like seeing.

Oh how Cat Noir is still devalued. Well...it do be like that. Another instance of what happens when you don't do exactly as the outsiders want or expect. Even if they see that you and Adrien made her feel like this for you. Is this why Adrien truly accepts you now?

Lila: Still sobbing? Feeling bad at last for many you could have stopped? Oh well. I'll just keep rambling. Truth is...

They see or saw her as the second coming of their divine play they played upon themselves with you as their ringleader.

All because she was the second in your way like me. Heh even when she supports your dreams for some reason and satisfies the many outsiders interests. She does something that they think is so bad, they'll treat her like before. I'm now convinced that if any of your friends deflect from you upon their own will, 

the outsiders would call them the devils like you say I am.

Marinette: Please, Lila! I don't want to see any more of this.

I don't want this experience! This shouldn't be happening.

Why IS THIS HAPPENING TO ME?!

MAKE IT STOP MAKE THIS STOP! Despairing and weeping

Lila: Now you want to quit?

You didn't quit earlier for me over something so ignorable. I guess you do pick what to stomach. Too bad. Accept this agony. 

This is what desperation and their foolishness to want you to be validated 

and me invalidated by any means really means. Lila: They can't even see they do not have to be like this but they won't ever and it shall never end. 

It's not your fault that these outsiders are being like this. 

If it wasn’t me, they probably would do like Sabrina 

and find someone else to blame solely specifically. 

It reminds me of a few games I played or shows I watched. 

However, you unfortunately gave some them direction 

or what it means to be goodie twisted two-shoes. Marinette: I didn't ask for this. I JUST WANTED… Lila: Again, this is what happens when you and many outsiders don't think things through 

or become too invested in things going a specific way and refusal to let me or anyone like me go. 

Try to grow cause outsiders mostly won't. 

You and outsiders need to get better at seeing things from a different angle,

instead of locking or involving yourselves against me and wanting to be inexcusably correct. Cat Noir walking and wobbling

The very last thing Marinette needed to see Cat Noir: I'm sorry I failed you and everyone. I...could not...stop what happened. Her last hope turns into ashes in front of her. She screams in terror and sadness and this environment Gets up In her room Marinette: It Was A Dream!? She's quaking and trembling for a few minutes Marinette: (I need to get some breakfast.)

That dream... As she leaves her room An akuma exitted her room but a headband with one on it is present.

*Somewhere Else But Unknown*

Nooroo: Did you really have to do that? Lila: This is a warning for her and outsiders that don't think things through 

or don’t see how they or others can create damage that they can't undo. And the endless cycle of the collective outsiders madness. Nooroo: It affects more than who they see as the target. Lila: Yep. Nooroo: So you wish she'd change? Lila: Many to change or even reduce the amount of crazy magnets in the outsiders' never ending journey. I think you need to find a way to free yourself and have complete control.

Nooroo: Is this outsider info again?  Lila: Just think of what I said.

I'm going to sleep now. That session was off the hook. Nooroo: (...Whatever you say.) Seeing The No. 2 Headband

Return to Part 1/2

[rainbow18]

Miraculous doesn’t have much understanding of how custody of children works.

Realistically speaking, Andre would have to go to court, contact MR Lee AND Prove that he can be a good guardian PRIOR to getting custody of Zoe. None of which, he had done.

In fact, His treatment of Chloe, just proves that he shouldn’t be a guardian of any child.

(Which really open up the question of who has custody of Adrien now that he might be a orphan.)

[gryficowa]

When someone orders ice cream from you, but you realize it's aroace

[pedanticat]

What’s your opinion on the whole Endeavor redemption arc I’m personally not fond of it since it’s disturbingly similar to how MLB treats Hawksmoth and Andre (maybe even worse in some cases) and I wanna hear your thoughts on the matter

Sorry for the late reply! This is a pretty big ask and I had to think about how to answer this question properly. Now much like Gabriel, Endeavor was a character whom I wanted to see get punched in the face but even more so since I was horrified by the hell and abuse he put Todoroki through. I desperately wanted to see this dude be disbarred from being a hero and face the consequences of his actions. And keep in mind, when all of this was revealed, it was during a time when Gabriel still had some redeeming qualities. So between the two, I liked Gabriel more.

But then Horikoshi did something unexpected with Endeavor. He set him on a path of redemption. Or at least that is what it seemed like at first before it became clear that it was more so a path of atonement. When he finally became the number #1 hero, it was only because All Might was forced to retire. So even though he had reached the goal he had always strived for, he couldn't even enjoy it since he didn't accomplish it on his own merits. And because it's such a hollow victory and how the general populace didn't accept him as the new number #1 hero, he was forced to face all the mistakes he's made in life. So because of this, he began to self-improve so that he can be the kind of hero that the citizens of Japan deserved and the kind of father he should have been to his children.

Now I'll admit, seeing all of this made me feel weird. I've seen my fair share of redemption arcs involving characters who have frankly done way worse things than Endeavour. Many of those characters were full-blown villains who had committed mass murder. Yet Endeavour was a new experience since I'd never seen the redemption of a character who was abusive which weirdly made me feel more uncomfortable than a character who commits mass murders. I think it all boils down to the fact that the things Endeavour did in the series feel more real and a lot more personal as opposed to seeing someone like Vegeta just blow up a building full of people with a ki blast. But then I thought thinking about how it would be hypocritical to believe that people can change but then exclude certain people because of their actions even if it's clear that they're 100% genuinely trying to change.

So with all of this in mind, I would say Endeavour is a way more layered and better-written character than Gabriel and Andre. Yes, when the series started, he was an abusive piece of crap just like them. But Endeavor at least came to a genuine realization of how awful he had become and has genuinely put in the effort to make up for the mistakes of his past. Yet at the same time, he'll accept if his family wants nothing to do with him at all because he recognizes that they have every right to feel the way they do and aren't entitled to forgive him.

I 100% understand if even with all of this in mind, people would hate Endeavor, and that is valid! But compare to Gabriel and Andre, at least Endeavor got proper layers to his character along with being written consistently.

[buggachat]

Part 198 of my bakery “enemies” au!

First / Prev / Next / All

Kofi

[zoe-oneesama]

What are your thoughts on what happened to Chloe at the end of Season 5? Do you plan on watching Season 6?

Like as IF that's the last we'll see of her.

I was gonna wait to give my review of Season 5 - I wanted a release date for Season 6 and then drop them like a count down leading up to the new season - which is why I haven't delved in much and talked about my opinions.

But Chloe's ending was bullshit, and we all know it. Not because she leaves Paris, not because she loses the few friends and connections she has, and not even because she's a massive brat who finally gets some form of comeuppance.

But because of the form that comeuppance comes in.

Why on God's Green Earth is ANDRE the one? ANDRE is the one to drag her ass out of Paris and condemn her publicly and gets to act like the big hero, doing the right thing and putting Chloe in her place? ANDRE. The one who GAVE her her place and covered it in gold leaf and never once until this whack-job of a season considered that a bad thing?!

Appropriate, appropriate face Caline.

The absolute absurdity of them to write THIS MAN in any sort of correct light, the one who from Day 1, Season 1 has been a solid and complete background for why Chloe is...Chloe. Who spoiled and abused his power to make sure she never felt an ounce of consequences or remorse or backlash. How dare they try and pull this move on us when they could remove Audrey from the story entirely and no one would second guess Chloe's entire personality or upbringing?

These writers have somehow convinced themselves that Andre is not only without any guilt in the outcome of this situation, but that he's redeemable! Redeemable through the act of shipping off his daughter, whom he's been nothing but devoted to, and sending her off to a boarding school with her (AS HE ADMITS) just as awful mother as her chaperone, while he abducts casually replaces her with his new better daughter, Zoé.

I'm sure that won't have an adverse effect on your child who is used to absolute and unconditional love for her whole life, you are definitely a good person who's finally figured out how to do the right thing.

/s

These writers have somehow convinced themselves that Chloe is absolutely hopeless and evil and has reached the point of no return, but ANDRE. Andre's fine.

And Gabriel too, apparently. Hm, seems to be a theme with these worthless male parents and getting off scott free....

[m3nt4llyr4v3d]

I think it’s fascinating how both the narrative and the in-universe magic system punishes only the teenagers for acting terrible and never the adults.

The universe of Miraculous has an evil transformation, for one, and that transformation only starts killing the user if they’re not an adult. If you’re an adult, the universe itself doesn’t really care

And we all know how the narrative treats its teenage antagonists compared to adult antagonists (Chloe’s treatment compared to her father’s/Gabe’s)

I don’t think I’ve seen anything like it before

[unfortunately-a-miraculous-fan]

Chloe's sudden shift in character because Thomas realized they were making her a little too redeemable is SO funny to me. Like:

Season 1: Chloe is a regular, one-dimensional high school bully.

Season 2: Chloe is actually a bit more of a complex person than that, because nobody is pure evil. But she's still definitely an asshole.

Season 3: Chloe is a child who was neglected by her mother and spoiled by her father, making her into the brat she is today. Marinette as Ladybug shows Chloe a bit of kindness that she might not have fully deserved, and Chloe takes those words to heart, working to be a bit better over time. Progress is slow, but not impossible.

Season 4: Chloe is a cartoonishly evil villain who never gave even half a shit about anybody.

Season 5: Chloe just about ruined Marinette's entire life years before the show even started, and is the reason that Marinette stalks Adrien (See? It wasn't creepy after all. Stalking is justified sometimes!). Just trust me, this was definitely the plan from the very beginning.

[sidsinning]

I will say giving the grown man that raised and enabled Chloe into the monster she's become a redemption arc before the child herself is fuckin WILD

[generalluxun]

Miraculous Reverse

Lore/fix/expansion/headcanon

Tackling that one out-of-place name drop and turning it from something boring and repetitive(in an otherwise really fun plotline!) into something more fitting. Like or hate her, having Chloé just be Marinette's bully in the reverse is just dull. It also goes against the overall theme of similar-but-different.

So, in trying to keep canon in mind, but twisting it up, I present to you:

Emonette's bully is actually reverse!Zoé- hear me out.

Reverse!Andre is an iron fisted tyrant. Reverse!Audrey is a harmless vapid party girl/trophy wife. Andre still very much abuses his power and Audrey is still very much a forgetful/neglectful mother.

Zoé is still the product of infidelity. It's not so much an estranged wife stepping out as a naive/foolish girl seduced by Mr. Lee. When André finds out too late, he is livid. Audrey goes 'to the country' until her 'health improves' and baby Zoé is tossed into the public welfare system.

Meanwhile back at home André is utterly embarrassed by the whole scandal. Chloé, already not something either parent was really interested in, is kept confined to the hotel and not spoken of. She becomes something glimpsed by guests out of the corner of the eye; there and gone. A rumor/urban legend starts about 'The ghost of LeGrand Paris.'

Back to Zoé- due to a social worker being careless with paperwork, and Zoé being an advanced reader for her age, she learns early on about her 'real' family. She is instantly angry as only a child can be. She should be rich! She should have power! She should have it all!

For the next several years she is a terror for foster families, orphanages, and homes for problem children. It gets to the point where she is returned to the Bourgeois(at least until Andre can fight the legal system again). Once she's there though, André doesn't know how to handle her. He's surrounded himself with sycophants for a decade. Someone who stands up to him with his own level of belligerence is alarming. He resorts to ignoring her/avoiding her and letting her do whatever provided it doesn't cause him more problems.

When Zoé meets Chloé(around 11-12 yrs of age or so), she sees someone with the life she was denied... So she takes it. She takes Chloé's name and enrolls herself in school. She claims to be the 'Ghost of Le Grand Paris', who was sickly growing up but is healthy now! She's out, proud, and taking everything she wants. This includes dominating the school, ruling as Queen, and taking out her personal anger on that easy-victim emonette.

I want to stress this is a *starting* point. This is a setup. This is where the narrative begins. Zoé is still in part wearing a mask, one she forged herself im childhood based on what she thought *should* be.

Chloé isn't some perfect angel. She's a recluse, unsocialized, isolated. (Think Mary Lennox from the Secret Garden) and libel to be a touch cross if her very tiny world is upset.

This whole thing is meant to blossom out, be discovered, and provide for some great narrative hooks.

Instead of just boring 'Chloé bad.'

[anxresi]

She's already been punished enough...

...By being part of one the worst shows of all time, dufus.

A few points here, in the order of the OP presented their dubious 'case' (though I suspect this isn't actually how they feel and this is a somewhat disingenuous attempt was to provoke a reaction from a lot of others when they sent this to Reddit, in which case... JOB DONE).

1. Bullying, as bad as it can be, is not a jailable offence. especially the relative mild incidences we've seen in the show (up till S4 that is, which we'll get to later) Next.

2. As every right-minded person knows, this is 'New Chloe' e.g Chloe specifically created by Mr Astruc for the S3 finale onwards which bears no relation to 'Old Chloe'. 'Old Chloe' actually had personality, layers, humanity, humour, was a great super-anti-hero, the stirrings of redemption in her.... 'New Chloe' is just an out-and-out psychopath with no depth to her whatsoever apart from to be as ineptly evil as possible and increasingly embarrass herself with every tortuous appearance so Thomas can get his sick jollies, so this doesn't count. Sorry.

3. See: 2. Also, Zoe shouldn't exist... so, there's that. If you want to know why, please see my other posts... as I am saving up all my ire for something far more important as you'll find out below...

4. Now this is the one that REALLY boils my piss. How can I put this politely... Fuck off, you fucking cunt. Chloe's fucking father ENABLED her fucking behavior for fucking years by fucking throwing his money at the fucking problem instead of paying for the fucking psychological help she clearly fucking well needed and fucking IGNORED everything when her fucking mother regularly left Chloe alone, told her she was fucking worthless, didn't bother celebrating her fucking birthdays, forgot her fucking name time and time again...

I could go on. And you're telling me Andre is the FUCKING victim instead of Chloe, this FUCKING corrupt mayor. this FUCKING waste of space, this FUCKING pathetic excuse of a man who as her FUCKING FATHER could've put his FUCKING foot down at any FUCKING time and simply said "No?" What kind of a fucking 'mature' adult is he, anyway?! I suppose the OP also thinks fucking Gabriel deserved his fucking statue as well, in fact they should've hung fucking garlands of flowers from it whilst someone played fucking panpipes and everybody else fucking danced around. Fuck you.

Also worth noting here that Chloe fucking ADORED her father until the exceedingly unwelcome S4 'reboot' where she suddenly saw him as a fucking walking piggy bank (I won't even mention how they purposefully ruined her relations with Adrien, Sabrina, even her own butler... Chloe can't have any happiness in her life. It simply ISN'T ALLOWED).

Then they have the cheek to let his daughter be 'disowned' by him in the S5 finale and banished to London as if he fucking did nothing wrong in facilitating her attitude whilst failing to defend her against her despicable mother's abuse. (Yes, I said ABUSE I know the creator doesn't view it as such, but he's a fucking moron so what can you do?) Bullshit. Complete and utter undiluted diarrhea dripping from a bull's anal sac... that's what this is. I hope I painted an accurate picture for all of you. Sorry if you were eating.

So, it was supposably a happy ending that Andre got to fucking adopt another man's child without any reprecussions for his past actions, as he embarked on his new career as a fucking film director. What? You think that wasn't ENOUGH punishment for Chloe, OP? You think she should go to fucking jail as well, for DARING to be a child victim of incessant abuse, both in-canon and in-writing? I never thought I'd meet a person who's more radicalised in their blind hatred of Chloe than fucking Mr Astruc, but here we are. I tell you, some people on this exploding planet of ours scare me. Legit.

5. See 2 again. This huge disparity in writing between the two Chloes is getting stupid now, and anyone who can't see the contrast between now and then... I really can't help you. Either take off your Chloe-hating goggles to smell the coffee, or go read someone that agrees with you 100% and won't pop your tiny safe-space bubble with indisputable facts. Goodbye.

6. I think Chloe is more 14... but it doesn't really matter. Still a child, still should be treated as one. Which makes Astruc's obsessive loathing of her even more disturbing... and even more so this dude's.

That's it. This was probably an entirely unnecessary pot-pourri of hot topics I've regurgitated before, but as soon as I saw this article (particularly Pic 4) I just had to jump on my soapbox once more to regale the world about the kind of arrant nonsense I see about Chloe sometimes online, particularly regarding the subject of parental abuse and whether her treatment by the show's narrative was justified (SPOILER: It wasn't, and if you disagree I need you to fuck off RIGHT NOW).

Because if people like me don't defend her and the terrible writing she's been subjected to for the last few seasons (at least she's in good company there though), who will?

Not the person who made her, that's for sure. She may be a fictional character but... I get the feel her situation is similar to a lot of other neglected and mistreated kids out there who lash out at others for obvious reasons. And by handling her arc (if you can even call it that) in this inexcusable way... I don't just think the show has just done her a disservice. I think they've outright destroyed her and the hopes of many others watching.

What a great message to send to every youngster who could relate. I hope the makers are proud of themselves. Fucking idiots.

[miraculousdeservesbetter2024]

“OMG! CHLOE TREATS HER FATHER SO TERRIBLY!” 😣

And I understand that!

However, Andre’s a grown adult man, not a freaking baby nor a little boy who needs his father’s approval anymore.

He’s the one who brought her into the world, enabled Chloe, spoiled her rotten, GAVE HER he privileges (the same ones Thomas claims she had), and set a bad example for her. HE put himself into the situation, so HE’S the one that has to deal with it. If you ask me, he needs to grow a spine and do his job as a father instead of expecting everyone to pity him for the bad mistakes that HE made lol 😂

[p0mmia]

LADYBUG doodle/redraw #4 🐞🎶 — Exaltation (Elation) / S5

~ dancing miaou miaou 🌹

. . .

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[gryficowa]

Let's be honest, Marinette and the rest of the characters put more effort into trashing Chloe herself than into actually helping (And they still have the nerve to say they were trying to help when in reality all they said was "Be nice" and nothing else, it's a strong attempt to avoid making an effort to help, which the person needs)

Yes, I'm pissed, that's why there are so many posts, but seriously, the fandom still believes that the characters tried to help Chloe and it's all her fault because she didn't accept "Help", too bad it wasn't even help (This song fits so well)

Yes, I get annoyed with people in the fandom who say that the characters tried, it's bullshit, they didn't do anything to help her (And that's why they put more effort into destroying her than actually helping her), and empty words are things anyone can say

[xwonderlandresidentx]

The mental gymnastics these people will do to defend a child abuser is downright astonishing