#Lestat and Nicolas in Paris

[dude-could-you-be-more-gay]

Armand in TVL is really like “I’ve been nothing but insane and this is how you treat me???”

[limonmelon]

sorry to the people who think Armand made up that they had sex. i am putting these men into so many down dirty nasty situations in my head.

[nalyra-dreaming]

Hello Nalyra, thank you for your blog! I've seen that in the Talamasca files Nicolas file ends in late 19th century, but I remember that Lestat told to Louis that he waited almost over a century to try again. Do you think it is not Nicolas date of death or that they had been separated for many years already?

(Book) Canonically they were separated for many years already, yes. Lestat left Nicolas in Armand's care, because Nicolas ended up hating him and wanted only to play his music (and he went mad in the end).

I think that will be the same here as well. The extended time frame will easily account for the two returns of Lestat to Paris that we know of (the premiere of Don Pasquale 1843, and the chess championships 1878), I could imagine he would perhaps (try to) check on Nicolas, too.

The thing is... Nicolas did not "possess" the spark. The dark gift drew him further into darkness. (Which is another reason why Lestat probably did not sire Santiago.)

When he tried again with Louis it had been over 100 years.

[mameeta]

The Vampire Lestat - Part 2 (Anne Rice Audiobook Unabridged)

I'm just posting as I go along. I guess for anyone listening along with me.

[jaggedjot]

Armand framing the coy, halfhearted protests he made when Lestat began to caress him in the theatre as though he was concerned about the hurt that this would cause, rather than him further flaunting to Nicolas, a man Armand considers his romantic, intellectual and ideological inferior, that Lestat is openly pursuing him instead.

[sailorgoth]

"— I could live and relive this moment forever. — He said and Nicolas smiled, equally taken by the same feeling of happiness. Afterward, he sat down beside Lestat and kissed him, a tender and passionate kiss, joined in a loving embrace, but then he cried, which he never did. Usually, it was Lestat who cried, overcome with the sadness of his life, but Nicolas cried and he held him so tight as he broke down in tears on the shoulders of his beloved and only friend."

Read more here!

[canonicallysoulmates]

I knew Lestat and Nicki broke up but I was not prepared for "I despise you. But I am done with you." and "and then I won't ever have to look upon your light again." That is brutal.

[chicalepidoptera]

Do we think Nicolas felt guilty for Lestat's abduction, that he blamed himself for not having held Lestat tight enough when Lestat was torn from his arms that night in Paris???!

[savagewildnerness]

O Earthly Lestat, I see now the trouble I’m going to have with S3 is I may have to defend Nicolas a lot…. And I don’t even know how he’ll be written for TV. But I know he means too much to me, and that’s just that. In a way Nicolas means the most to me. Not that he means more to me than Lestat. But that the elements of Nicolas that I relate to (& importantly as you can never get over this feeling - that I related to as a 12-year-old) I cannot think of any other instance in literature or any other fictional character I could relate to or who so exactly articulated something about me. And so I cannot help but always fight for Nicki 100% (even though I am not like Nicki in all ways.)

I want to CLARIFY! This is not some “Nicolas was Lestat’s actual great love” point of view in ANY WAY! LOUIS, is Lestat’s great love!

But this is: Nicolas loved Lestat. It wasn’t only Lestat who loved Nicki. And Nicolas loving Lestat enabled Lestat to love Louis.

I find it beautiful. YES, Nickistat ended AWFULLY! (And that there was mutual love makes it all the more tragic and beautiful to me!) But I just need to say here…

People acknowledge how much of Louis’ words in IWTV are shaded by his own struggles…. So I can’t understand why so many people seem to take Nicolas’ words in his final argument with Lestat (by which point, with whatever nuance you cut it, Nicolas is as described by EVERYONE as a mad vampire, his mind lost!) as 100% his always-truth!!!?! I just cannot comprehend it!!!?! I’d love if anyone would like to explain how you can see it that way, especially after reading the actual way Nicolas was pre-Paris, in Paris, when Lestat was stolen away… all until the moment he witnesses Lestat be shot. THEN it shifts for Nicki!

I’m also not one for blaming Armand for Nicki’s demise. The tragedy of Nicolas is, Lestat is very responsible for Nicolas’ demise, and simultaneously all Lestat did, he did through love. There are a thousand ways Nicki’s tragic demise is Shakespearean inevitable resonance… and yet…

But yeah, it’s actually primarily because of his music & things around his music that Nicki matters so much to me. But nevertheless, he matters & I shall fight for him!!! Lestat and Nicki's conversation matters deeply to me too, and what Nicki is for Lestat in that conversation. But where I connect with Nicki is in his music and how he feels about his music. I personally connect with Lestat's worldview on the other hand. Although in my personality, I am my self, of course, I also relate to some elements of each of them.

The thing with Nicolas I suppose for me though is there are various aspects of his self I relate to that I have never felt anywhere else except in my own self. Not in fiction & not in anyone I have ever known in reality either. And I guess that’s why I will always fight for him. Also, because most people should understand Lestat - we’re so in his heart & head 💛. But we don’t hear the story from Nicolas’ point of view, yet for me, at times it is like he is absolutely in my own mind & heart or I am in his, or it’s the same thing in some odd way I can’t quite articulate. I feel seen by him, and I see him. I understand some parts of him, reflecting how by existing in fiction, he has understood me.

Back to Nicolas. He kept Lestat’s dressing room at Renaud’s as a literal shrine to Lestat. He fought with his friends over Lestat’s moral integrity after Lestat went missing. Even when Lestat was gone, Nicki was still loving him, fighting for him, staying at Renaud’s, wearing rings Lestat sent him. If he felt as he said in his final argument, why did Nicolas even stay working at Renaud's at all? Why was Nicolas so distressed when Lestat sent him lots of money and gifts but didn't ever contact him?

I just list these things, which are just a few ways we see Nicki's feelings through his concrete actions. Nicolas truly did resent Lestat in the end. Just as Lestat couldn’t stand the sight of vampire Nicolas. But even that doesn’t negate love.

Mortal Nicolas DESPERATELY needed Lestat’s light. Vampire Nicki doesn’t. And I see his cruelty in the final argument (while not being entirely absent of truth) as being partly founded in love…. Nicki knows the dark thing he now is & he knows, even in his addled mind Lestat won’t leave him… and he knows Lestat. He knows Lestat must leave him or he’ll take Lestat to his death with him.

It’s ok that love was once & isn’t eternal. It’s ok that Nicki’s love for Lestat did exist, but turned to hate & yet was never entirely lost. It’s ok that Lestat’s love for Nicki never diminished even though he couldn’t stand the sight of him as a vampire. These things don’t negate love. Hate can be part of love. It’s ok that their worldviews were fundamentally different. It’s ok they were not each other���s eternal loves. There was love. Deep and mutual love.

As I see it, we can accept & enjoy that they BOTH loved each other, and that fact only deepens Loustat.

By which time, Nicolas is long dead.

But I genuinely believe when they were mortal, Nicolas’ love for all of Lestat (even when envying him too!) meant Lestat could later love the all of Louis so unconditionally, as he had been loved that way before.

It’s an unpopular opinion, I know. But it’s mine. I express it with acknowledgment I can’t be objective about Nicolas. But that doesn’t lessen the strength of my truth!

In all honesty… we are all subjective humans. Can we be objective about any fictional character we have an emotional connection with?

And that’s the crux of it: when you CARE so much, ultimately it’s about whatever truth you need.

Maybe we ought to think on this on all of our favourite characters & imagine how it might apply to others for any character we love less unconditionally ourselves…?

[camaelczarka]

So, I think we all know that there’s going to be quite a bit more to the 2x07 trial and the 2x08 tower scene when Lestat tells the story. If you’ve read the Vampire Lestat, you already know what I mean; TVL is almost a wrapper for IWTV, and provides much of the context around Claudia’s death. I’m definitely going to spoil some events in that book in this post so watch out. Under the cut for spoilers.

The bulk of TVL describes Lestat’s mortal life, his relationship with Nicolas de Lenfent, his non-consensual turning into a vampire by Magnus who then shortly after jumps into a fire, his meeting Armand, his forming of the Theatre des Vampires, and Nicki’s eventual death by suicide that Armand greatly facilitated. There’s a lot more to it but basically it’s the backstory for why everything that happens to Claudia and Louis in Paris goes as horribly as it does.

Near the end of the book, Lestat revisits the trial. It picks up with him being extremely weak and sick for years after his ‘death’ at the hands of (mostly) Claudia. He doesn’t condemn her for it, or seek revenge, and says he understands why she did what she did. But being alone and having no one to turn to, he eventually decides to ask Armand for some of his blood so that he can recover, having no idea that Louis and Claudia are already in Paris. Still in his weakened state, Armand takes advantage of him to get information about Louis and Claudia and how they tried to kill him. Armand is reading his mind but it’s unclear how much info he gets there. Then, he traps Lestat under the theater and starves him until he’s forced to drink dead blood. He’s extremely disoriented and sick and is dressed up to look good and brought out to testify against Claudia. Then he’s taken away to Magnus’ tower (he also has the yellow dress here) and Armand flips out on him for breaking up his former coven and starting the theater, tells him Louis is also dead (a lie obviously), and pushes him out of the tower.

The key difference between the show trial and the book trial is the fact that the show makes the trial into a play with rehearsals that Lestat is (apparently) present for. So my question, knowing the book canon, is why would Lestat participate willingly, or did he even willingly participate?

Going on the book canon, it might simply be that Lestat is super fucked up in this moment, that Armand is controlling his every action except for the few times where he manages to break out of it and go off script. And I do think that’s possible if he’s weak enough- Armand is very powerful in that way, and Lestat might be unable to fend him off. I think this is possible- Armand explicitly states in the book that he wants Lestat to look presentable, and maybe that was enough to fool Louis.

But I actually think the show might have added another even more nefarious layer to this already fucked up event- I think that Armand has made some sort of fucked up deal with Lestat for Louis’ life. Because otherwise, none of this makes sense.

Why does there need to be a trial play with a human jury? Legitimately, there doesn’t. There’s no good reason for it- the coven was going to judge them as guilty no matter what, and the audience is going along with the play because they think it’s a show. Armand and the coven will have Claudia dead one way or another, they really don’t need a bunch of mortals to weigh in on it. So who was Armand trying to convince? The only answer is Louis.

Armand may have written into the script that Louis was supposed to die with Claudia, but I think he made a deal behind the backs of the coven with Lestat. That deal was maybe something like- “I let you get him banished, then I will take him out of the wall. Say nothing about your involvement or he dies.” Lestat is made to give up personal details of their lives together, seemingly freely. Why would be do this? Why would he willingly put himself in the position of the bad guy to Louis here? Even Louis wonders this in the interview. And there are even a bunch of moments where Lestat stalls in the middle of talking- and I think he’s fighting with Armand telepathically, or being reminded of the terms of this agreement. Louis and Claudia wouldn’t be able to tell what was happening, but Madeline would, so they keep her hypnotized until later.

Because, the coven DIDN’T spare Louis. Lestat getting him ‘banished’ didn’t spare his life at all, he was just dying slowly. Because again, the coven didn’t actually care about the audience jury, they just took him offstage for the main event. He was 100% still going to die. But Lestat DID still save him- by agreeing to let him go with Armand.

Lestat doesn’t answer when Louis accuses him of getting revenge during the trial. Lestat doesn’t provide any explanation in the tower in the next episode for why he participated. He allows Louis to hold him responsible for his participation and how it resulted in Claudia’s death. I feel like Lestat CAN’T dispute it, as per the terms of whatever arrangement he and Armand had. Armand takes Louis out of the wall, and the price of Lestat saving him from that is letting Louis decide to leave him. He can’t say anything otherwise, and he truly doesn’t think he deserves to anyway.

This also could explain why Lestat participated to begin with. He actually IS really weak and fucked up, so he couldn’t do much to save Claudia or anything really past getting Louis put into that coffin. Armand puts him into the impossible position of relying on him to get Louis out while also trusting that Armand can handle his suicidal husband, knowing that Armand is responsible for Claudia AND Nicki’s deaths already. This is why he is terrified that Louis is dead in 1973, because Armand has a track record and he knows that Louis has been suicidal before. But what other option does he have? Giving Louis up is the only way to save him.

This achieves 3 goals for Armand. He get Louis and finally (he hopes) severs Louis’ ever present love for Lestat. He gets rid of the coven, or at least gets out of it. And, perhaps most importantly, he injures Lestat in a way that he will truly never recover from. Nicki is dead, Claudia is dead, Louis hates him.

I think this is partially why Armand is so gleeful when he tells Daniel how long he and Louis have been together versus Louis and Lestat. His ultimate goal is to punish and hurt Lestat. Kill his daughter, make him watch, make him responsible. Make Louis hate him. Make Louis stay with him ‘forever’ of his own free will.

It also recontextualizes the line in the last episode where Lestat explains to Louis that he “gave him to Armand” and questions whether or not that was actually saving him. Which implies there was a goal beyond simply getting him offstage, and I think means more than just exchanging a boyfriend between the two of them. Louis had already left Lestat at the point, and while maybe they would have gotten back together already without Armand’s involvement, Louis wasn’t really ‘his’ to give. I think it means something more along the lines of he LITERALLY gave his bodily safety to Armand, knowing how much he couldn’t trust him. But, he had no other choice, because Armand left him with none. Let me have him or he dies.

I do actually wonder if Lestat was still imprisoned and starved by Armand, and I think there’s a high likelihood of that. I do think Lestat would have to be in a weakened state to agree to any of this. But it does add another psychological element to the original story that also explains some of the weirdness in Armand’s version of events. This is the part of the story that Daniel can’t totally decode, because only Lestat knows exactly what happened besides him. And Lestat may still assume that Louis has ‘figured it out’ in the present day, because all Louis says is that he knows Lestat ‘saved’ him. Lestat still is going to clarify events going forward, and the trial is a big reason WHY he he writes TVL, because he wants Louis to understand what happened there.

[nalyra-dreaming]

Comments on episode 2x02 - aka episode 9!

SPOILERS!!

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Intro change!! Love it!!

The coven immediately tracking them but Claudia and Louis not noticing for FIVE MONTHS?! Sweeties!!! Come ON! This is Paris! You know? “Paris? No!“????

But the ribbing about it is EVERYTHING

Sitting on the statue made me laugh out loud

I‘m living for the vaguely bitchy bantering between Armand and Louis!!! Yesssss 🙌

And Daniel not buying it lol

Loved the little moment re the racism (callout) there

Armand and the jab re Lestat - LOL (oh god he is being so PETTY)

Armand needling Louis lmao

The coffins beneath the beds - clever

Poor pidgeons

GO DANIEL!

The interjections with Daniel‘s memories - shivers down my spine!!!

CLAUDIA SAYING SHE NEED A NEW BRAIN IN HER HEAD?!!!!! I FUCKING HATE THEM 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭 God the foreshadowing

Madeleine and Claudia (and the dress 😭)

Daniel lecturing them about the gloves!!! I remember a post about this when s1 aired, because yes!!!! GOD THE DETAILS

Oh Louis. His photos. Going to that park to… watch?! Or snack and taste the lust in the blood?!!

Okay the groan and the elictricity … manifestations are definitely related to Armand.

They‘re very cute there on the couch in Dubai! If only Daniel would buy it lol. Also Louis‘ face when Armand says he never harmed him - oof. Pain and harm (for others) incoming 😭

God Armand seemed smitten indeed

The theater. HOLY SHIT. God they ate horrifically and left no crumbs.

Armand is maître. No hiding behind Santiago after all

Claudia choosing Bruce. Oy. Also Louis‘ face seeing the portrait

Daniel after had me laughing tears. Honestly. Drag them 🤣🤣🤣

Armand saying he fucked Lestat. Nawwww sweetie 😆

Louis going to Roget‘s to check if Lestat is actually dead. I… god. Honey.

Also: A part of the real Lestat!!!!!!!! I had not expected this (something similar yes, but THIS)??? GOD!! And Sam‘s presentation of it. Holy Hell. And making Louis his beneficiary. Right in the feels. “My Louis“. 😭😭😭😭 Mentioning the veil between them!!! Asking Louis not to give in to revenge!! But live his life 😭😭😭 FUCKING DEVASTATING 😭😭😭

The blood tears

Also Roget proposing Lestat is sleeping?!!!!!!!!! Does this Roget know?!!!

Whoa Daniel calling rebound

And Louis lashing out making Daniel remember Armand!!! HOLY MOLY

Louis called Daniel “Danny“

That smile Louis smiled there was vicious. Another little chip of surface humanity gone

Murder Mansion. Sex on motorbikes. It feels feverish.

Ohhhhhhhhh the flirtation. And Armand cutting it short by warning him and pushing Louis towards his shortcomings vampire-wise. OUCH. And also Armand commenting on her body and mind. Beheadings going on behind them. Oof.

The episode ending with a scream and the smile draining from Louis‘ face. Ruthless foreshadowing.

Next episode preview!!!

1556… the way they redirect for these snippets is interesting

Nicolas!!!!

God that gaze between Lestat and Armand is … *fans self*

Catacombs. Does Armand really show / (try to) teach LOUIS the fire gift? 😬

Justin fucking Kirk talking about the Great Conversion in broad daylight. Ohhhhhh I‘m still calling red herring lol.

Louis throwing Lestat against the wall 😈

Armand challenging Louis 🙌

Agh.

INCREDIBLE.

[platoapproved]

even the iron still fears the rot

lestat/armand & lestat/nicolas rating: e ch. 3 of 3 words: 30k

—I’m sorry. They make me ugly, I know. My maker fixed what flaws he could before turning me, but those scars were too old. I am…damaged. Can you– can you overlook it? Lestat heard the frantic plea beneath the words, aching out of Armand’s large pretty eyes: Please don’t turn me away now. Please stay with me in spite of this. Please keep me. Please love me. Damaged. As if he were a set of exquisite china plates marked for discount because of a few tiny chips. The urgency of Armand’s insecurity and need for reassurance wiped everything else from Lestat’s mind—and he was grateful for it. So much in his life made him feel helpless and overwhelmed. But this? This, he could do. He could take care of Armand just like he’d taken care of his family, hunting for them, feeding them. Just like he’d taken care of Nicki all their years together in Paris. The difference was, Armand actually wanted to be cared for. “Ugly? You can’t really think that, can you?” Lestat ran his fingertips along Armand’s flank, over the trailing edges of the scars. Armand shivered; Lestat saw goosebumps spreading along his skin. He skimmed soft touches across the tracery of scars—feeling the ridges and divots, the subtle variations of texture—as he leaned forward to kiss Armand. He kissed him and kissed him and kissed him, not stopping until the plaintive look on Armand’s face melted into one of stunned bliss. As if he could not believe his luck. So much gratitude for a sliver of kindness. Someone had taught him this, Lestat was sure. Someone, by intention or by carelessness, had placed the idea in his mind that his beauty was his worth and that a few scars were enough to spoil it. Lestat wanted, with a fury so sudden it startled him, to rip that unknown person’s head from their shoulders. He would show Armand just how much he deserved to be touched and cared for and adored.

Read it here!

[rosengris]

'All a misunderstanding, my love,' he (Nicolas de Lenfent) said. Acid on the tongue. The blood sweat had broken out again, and his eyes glistened as if they were wet. [...] 'And when we decided to go to Paris, I thought we would starve in Paris, that we would go down and down and down. [...] We were supposed to go down.'

Re-read one of the last times Nicki and Lestat spoke face to face after Nicki's turning, aka Lestat learning the true intention behind Nicki suggesting them running away to Paris.

If the show keeps this, show!Louis' 'my love' may have stabbed Lestat even deeper than he knew...

[mostlyvampires]

Lestat meets Nicolas (properly)

From The Vampire Lestat:

But there was one startling young man among them I didn't recognize immediately.

He was my age perhaps, and quite tall, and when our eyes met I remembered who he was. Nicolas de Lenfent, eldest son of the draper, who had been sent to school in Paris.

He was a vision now.

Dressed in a splendid brocade coat of rose and gold, he wore slippers with gold heels, and layers of Italian lace at his collar. Only his hair was what it used to be, dark and very curly, and boyish looking for some reason though it was tied back with a fine bit of silk ribbon.

Parisian fashion, all this -- the sort that passed as fast as it could through the local post house.

And here was I to meet him in threadbare wool and scuffed leather boots and yellowed lace that had been seventeen times mended.

[williamaltman]

People really read Nicolas admitting his self-destructive tendencies and how he thought running away from home to another city and making a living out of being a violinist/his boyfriend possibly being an actor wasn’t gonna work out for them and went "Yeah he really just hated Lestat and wished him the worst".

Yes he was jealous of "Lestat's light", his ability to endure, but he also literally says that that's what attracted him to Lestat in the first place and that he needed him/that light to feel complete.

How come for every other relationship you're appreciating how much they fucking hate and love each other at the same time, but Nicolas is somehow the devil and the ~most emotionally abusive boyfriend~ for having complicated feelings about Lestat and eventually turning on him???

(Mind you it was Lestat's idea to go to Paris, after Nicolas told him multiple times that it wasn't so great there, and he only lashed out against Lestat after they were over, so I don't think you can even say he was emotionally abusive in their relationship)

[meerawrites]

10 facts about The Vampire Emery (my oc)

has bipolar 1 disorder (if I assigned him a Vampire: The Masquerade Clan he'd be a Malkavian)

Bisexual-biromantic

almost died of tuberculosis and cholera in 1830s Paris before receiving vampirism

inspired by Nicolas de Lenfent, Lestat de Lioncourt, Enjolras and multiple TV characters

a gentleman (in theory), until he is not

noted bi disaster, it's gotten him trouble multiple times

a bad streak with partying (and girls)

Took part in the June rebellion of 1832

served time in prison for his part in the June rebellion before his grandfather bought him out of prison

for all the vampire horrors he takes a moral opposition to the death penalty and most systems of capital punishment, basically his own kind would call him "too nice" (derogatory) and "a socialist" (derogatory) and the humans would call him "c.ommie" (negative meaning)

Playlist.