#Ladybug Classic Lore Studies

[taldigi]

BADA BING BADA BOOM BABEY THE COOLEST FIND YET

[sirani-8927]

I highly recommend giving this a look if you guys want to take a look at the previous concepts and especially the first 4(?) bible pitches. from what i can tell, its a source of all of the stuff the show writers were trying out for miraculous before what we ending up getting and, to me at least, its interesting to see what concepts they kept, tossed, or changed in some way.

My personal favorite bible at the moment is the 10.6.14 since its got the first hints of the Akumaclass we know and love (characters like Nathanael, Juleka, and Mylene), even though most personalities are different from how they are currently. And the full script of the first two episodes, Stormy Weather and Evillustrator. Again, with some changes to the stories. 

The full website is definitely worth a full scrub through. I’m kind of surprised that it's not as big among the fandom anywhere online at all. The Orb is definitely a more interesting concept to me as it gives a reason for the heroes gaining powers in both of the 2012 bibles.

I pulled these screenshots from the 2013 pitch bible, as they both had five powers each and, in this Bible at least, Chat Noir's miraculous was his cane:

Interestingly, Papillion was going to also, In a way, be possessed by the Akumas:

And Gabriel had a wildly different personality to the one we ended up getting:

Once again, I do recommend looking through it on your own, because it's very interesting and one of the most irrefutable archives of pre-show/Ladybug Classic that I’ve been able to find. I'll tag @arcadeology as they own the site, but be warned they aren't canon positive and they post AUs centered around the pre-canon concepts, so if none of that is appealing to you don't bother.

Also, keep in mind the translations will be a bit wonky as they were auto-translated.

[taldigi]

oh, the magic words! Nathan and gorgeous.

So the answer is both yes, and no. Nathan is 2010's Chat Noir- aka Quantic Kids!Chat Noir. And there was a lot of him in art form, but none of the bibles are earlier than 2012 (late Felix, early Adrien). Buuttt I think the art says a lot about him, though.

we got some panels exploring Marinette's relationship with him, and his attitude to her. Shes been chasing him down with tickets for a long time. (It's surprising that, of all the themes they keep, they never really have Marinette chase down Adrien with movie tickets!)

some of them together and LB and Chat, as well as a QK group shot!

We also got an expression sheet of a later version of him that appears in the cafe artwork, but you can tell that he is starting to transition into his "Felix" design. (in fact, the leftmost art has him wearing his Mini Menace outfit! Which seemed to inspire the one that appears here!)

speaking of the cafe, the sketch also popped up! Which drops a REALLY COOL DETAIL about the fact that they gathered at the "Cafe Le Papillon" Perhaps Richard Sphinx owned the cafe? Depending on how far back and what liberties we take, maybe his father owned the cafe too? It would explain why he's there, even though he's so separate from the QK.

The full art was also included. Which is fantastic because it really is a great piece of art. A lot of people get their "Felix" energy from it, but it's Nathan, actually. Gorgeous Nathan. From the Gym Club. Not Nerd Felix from Premed. I also like that Melodie, in the sketch, is wearing a skirt. It's cute. And I love Marinette's spotty dress. The shorts are kinda pushing it tho.

I think I also got a bigger, nicer version of this art. It's the same.. dress and stockings Marinette from a significant amount of the art from the era. But it does reveal a little more, but not too important, detail.

aaaand that's all I got for now. I have plenty more nathan-era art, but that's all stuff we've seen before- like the storyboards and such.

So was there anything new about Gorgeous Nathan?

[wildpokemon]

ML Season 3 Rewatch: Startrain

Production No. 313

Yaay Startrain! Similar to Desperada, I went into this episode with little to no expectations, and again it was one of the most fun episodes for me so far this season! As much as I do love the lore-heavy and more over-arching plot episodes, the fun easy ones like this always just put such a smile on my face.

fun fact, i watched this episode three days after i rode the actual eurostar from Paris to London lol, so the travel aspect of this episode was very fresh in my mind lol

i love that Marinette doesn’t even consider asking Fu about the trip because she just accepts that she can’t go bc of Ladybug responsibilities, but then Adrien is the opposite, asks no permissions and is just like “fuck yeah! hawkmoth is probably tired, let’s go on vacation!!!” i love how the show is always showing the differences between the two of them lol

Fu just straight up giving Marinette another miraculous just so she can go have fun lol. that is like the exact opposite of Tikki whenever she tells Marinette not to transform for her own personal gain lol

AAAAAH!!! I FORGOT THIS IS THE EPISODE WE FIND OUT THAT ROGER IS BALD AAAAHAHAHAHAHAH

i was so fucking shook when i saw this the first time omfg, they can’t just spring things like this on me!!!

roger looooves to give out those fines

hurry up sabrina hUrRy Up SaBrInA HURRY UP SABRINA

poor sabrina though lol, she does waaaay too much for Chloe

and roger just like accepts that his daughter is doing all this shit for her friend? wat lol

Alya is so cute with her multiple blogs. heck yeah girl, start another one, follow those passions

markov identifying Adrien lol, nice

yes Adrien!!! disobey Gabriel!!! fuck that guy!!!

seriously this is such a big step for him, actually straight up going against something Gabriel would disapprove of. i’m so proud

they spend like a full minute of exposition just talking about train mechanics lol. unsure why other than just to show the handle thingy that becomes Ms Kante’s akumatized object

Max and his mom are too cute

apple should have sponsored this episode with an official apple watch for how often we see her check her email lol

89.7% chance of passing. i’m not sure your mom exaaactly wants to be hearing any odds right now Max lol

the akuma goes into Sabrina’s suitcase, and that’s how it gets onto the train - but I could have sworn that we’ve seen akumas phase through objects before? or was that just between small window openings?

look at Chloe getting a new jacket and boots

LOVE that Ms. Bustier is exasperated by Chloe’s behavior too lol

lmao, Chloe dismissing Sabrina, only to call her back on her phone less than ten seconds later. classic Chloe tbh

like obviously Chloe is being pretty terrible here, but still, the way she just yells things at Sabrina, like “mask!!” makes me laugh

“it’s Big Ben!” thank you, Adrien-been-to-London-all-of-one-time-Agreste

aaaahhhh the way he looks at her after she yawms omfggg. why do they do this to me lol

some solid advice from mvp bestie Alya here. as much as I do love Marinette’s confession plans, things probably would work out for her more if she could go with the flow more

can confirm, there are no actual service robots/drones on the actual eurostar. sorry if anyone is disappointed

love love love this sequence of everyone just relaxing and having fun on the train. wow happy times are nice

lmao Max’s mom checking her watch with her nose

as SOON as Marinette fell asleep on Alya’s shoulder i KNEW she would swap with Adrien and ooohhhh man this show did NOT disappoint. thank you miraculous writers, we are grateful

adrien isn’t even listening to music, he’s studying omg what a sweetheart

aaaaaaand there she goes :)))) she’s sleepin on his shoulder :))))))

why the fuck does he just go with it so easily??? he’s so happy???? and just immediately snuggles into her hair???? aaaAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH I LOVE THEM

also i love that they show us everyones reactions, while also granting us several different angles and shots of this beautiful moment. this is the Despair Bear slow dance of season 3 for sure (god i love that scene too, Alya the ultimate mvp)

fuck lila!!!!

but go Alya!!! get her awaay!

lmao Sabrina immediately jumping in to help Lila with her nonexistent problems

l o l chloe announcing that she’s Queen Bee all dramatically, but then just like, “oh here’s an akuma btw, no big deal”

hahahah why does Kim ALWAYS feel the need to be in his swim trunks i just

Marinette and Adrien STILL asleep <33 wonder what they’re dreaming about

lmao Simon from Simon Says is all like “i’ve been akumatized before, i know what it looks like” when like every single other named person on that train has ALSO been akumatized before lol, sorry you aren’t special

suuuuuuper interesting that the akuma is still naturally inclined to go after Max’s mom’s negative energy, AND that she accepts the akumatization without any prompting from Hawkmoth

also i like that she just names herself after the train lmao

“this..is..spacey” god i love Juleka lol

why are neither gabriel or nathlie upset or surprised that Adrien got on the train without their permission

Gabriel only cares that Adrien is in danger, when Gabe isn’t creating the danger himself

“hoping my enemies will save my son, how ironic” more like your enemy IS your son smh

okay, this is not how anti gravity works. you don’t like swim around. and their hair should be crazier. i feel like Roland Dupain, “that’s not how it’s done!!”

aw Max’s mom is having such a fun time driving her crazy space train

adrien complimenting marinette’s strategies <333

lolll Chat just admits to being on the train, where Ladybug has a preplanned reason, amazing lol

Chloe asking for her miraculous again, and Chat placating her by saying they would have if theyve known... he’s just setting her up to be disappointed. besides, this is AFTER Ladybug said she wouldn’t give it to her again. but we all know chloe isnt really one to listen to things she doesnt want to hear

ooo just noticed that the lucky charm doesn’t fall into her hands, she has to grab it out of the air - nice

Max’s solution to his robot over heating.. is to pour water on it lmao. i guess markov is waterproof?

hahaha i love Kaalki so much already. imagine if max got to hang on to his miraculous permanently and had to form this bond with a tiny sassy horse. i love it

the music and the like blue digital streaks in max’s transformation are so goooooood

and i like the little Hermes inspired wings on Pegasus’s shoes

Pegasus has horseshoe vision

theyve been holding their breath for a long time lol

okay i use hand warmers all the time (bad circulation) but when i watched this episode the first time, for some reason i had no idea what Ladybug was doing and was super confused by how she warmed Markov back up lol

the voyage! animation looks super cool too!!

and lmao Max teleports the train directly into big ben

adrien’s so chill with just going back home after all that lol, not even worried that his dad might be mad?

marinette have better made that picture her new wallpaper lol, theyre so freakn cute!!

This episode is so fun. This is now the second episode with a new Miraculous holder with Max getting the Horse Miraculous, and I like how it was set up in this episode, there was a good reason not only for LB to have it with her, but to give it to Max as well, and I think it suits him pretty well too. In terms of production order for this episode, the only thing I can think of is that Chloe is still asking for her miraculous, even though this is after Miraculer when Ladybug tells her she can’t give it to her again. But honestly, I think that’s just Chloe and her assumption that she’ll be needed again, rather than the episodes being out of order.

[taldigi]

remember ladybug's random hypnosis power and her cool wings? Also, her diary became her yo-yo

[taldigi]

How many versions and designs of Cat Noir are there?How many are there?

a lot!!!

[taldigi]

it is by the 2013 bible does the design we know as "Felix" start to transition into "Adrien" (even though he has been Adrien since the beginning.) the plot that he desired to become a doctor was officially dropped at this point for a new, less complicated goal...

There is particular emphasis on how he insists on wearing casual clothes.

He is far more rebellious, and actively tries to skirt his father's goals for him. Piano and Art had carried over from previous bibles, but was allocated to "things his father wants from him"

Adrien still has a bit of a bitter personality. He is still very Felix.

Him and Marinette are explicitly lined as friends. This is wildly different from the later bibles, which change this line to...

(this is the 2014 pitch that went forward into the series)

Adrien's "miraculous" is actually his cane. not his ring.

Adrien was also meant to have a better relationship with Fu, and seemed to even admire him.

Gabriel was far more interested in Adrien's wellbeing than he seems to be in the current show

he was intended to have a friendly connection with Alix.

[taldigi]

an even older artbook that sheds some very very interesting information and drops some identities!

Looks like he was felix very very early on.

[taldigi]

Some character highlights from the old artbook.

[taldigi]

in the 2012 bible

Adrien (Felix) had a bad leg and was studying to be a doctor. Except he's really good at art.

[taldigi]

is there a difference between alina and alya???? in terms of personality?

Since Alina is supposed to represent precanon Alya: yes.

From the 9/7/2012 bible: As eccentric as Marinette is classic, Alya wears extravagant outfits, swinging from gothic to geeky. She takes pride in being nothing like the others. It's her way of distinguishing herself. Alya is perfectly at ease with all things technology and telecommunications. Moreover, she's a budding reporter for the college newspaper!... Alya shares her bedroom with her younger sister. The room is divided in two. Alya's half is lined with posters of comic book superheroes, the floor is strewn with cables connected to an imposing DIY computer station.... Besides, she has theories on everything, admittedly- they are often very absurd. She dreams of gaining powers and becoming a heroine like Ladybug... Alya doesn't understand how Marinette can fall for Adrien, On the other hand, Alya finds Cat Noir super classy, ​​molded into his somewhat gothic leather uniform. Oh! If only Alya was Ladybug...

She is bright, smart, geeky- but fashionable! She's an individualist- loving to define and express herself. She's whipping up wacky theories that stem from her hobby of being a reporter for the school newspaper and her love of superheros- something she wishes desperately to be. She's a tech wiz- having built her own computer.

She also has a crush on Chat Noir, which i think is great in contrast to the love diamond and her relationship with Marinette. Later art of her does show that she even put red streaks in her hair, wore goggles, and held a helmet, which I think is super neat and expresses her more... creative or even techy side?

Canon Alya, on the other hand, dosen't seem to be too entrenched in tech, past a passing comment that a "good reporter backs up her files" or smth. But that's like.. something built into most phones these days, so it's not really a.. tech.. geek thing. Alya also never expresses much desire to be a hero, it more falls into her lap due to circumstance and nepotism. and her antics devolved into "stupid reporter" and zero self-preservation instinct- as well as pushing Marinette around for self-confidence reasons. (there is a discussion to be had there around black and asian stereotypes but thats a discussion for another day.)

Anyway, while it's true that none of the characters change outfits much due to cheaping out on 3D, Alya expresses no interest in fashion whatsover. In fact, she seems to carry a hipster vibe (she's rather unfashionable- I mean, most the cast are, actually.) and her outfit sort of expresses a carelessness to her fashion choices- as it's boring and plain, rather than "eccentric" She also actively seems to balk at the idea of Chat, and ignored him for the most part in favor of Ladybug. Her relationship with Nino is actively detrimental to her character and I think was her shark jump- as it suddenly started being the justification for a LOT OF BAD BEHAVIOR.

Hope this helps!

[taldigi]

ok i have confirmation that White Clothes Papillon was Richard Sphinx.

[taldigi]

did anyone want the old version of the opening? Hm hm hmmm maybe, maybe not. Who knows. Chat noir has lyrics.

[taldigi]

I think she looks like chell in this picture.

but here's to the tech geek and fashionista Alya we lost

[taldigi]

The plot of the October 2012 and 2013 bibles revolves around how Papillon had stolen the Orb of the Akouma and is using it to cause problems in Paris. Fu seperately enlists Marinette and Adrien to help recover the orb- but they are kept distracted due to constant Akouma attacks.

Adrien (who still holds the "Felix" design) had gotten a bit of a rework. In the previous July 2012 bible, Felix was the son of faraway rich parents- and Papillon was NOT A PART OF THE SERIES. . This is the first appearance of him, and he is very interesting.

Papillon would actively arrive on the scene to dispense Akouma.

... and he was actually posessed himself.

Very interesting, kind of scary. I like it.

Oh? Where did that Felix come from? It's there in French version as well.. Anyway, Here, his father is referred to as Gabriel when clearly this is Richard Sphinx... and where is Adoni or Null? Hmmm. I feel like there is still a lot to know about precanon, we are missing many many parts.

In the June 2014 bible, the story has dropped Adrien's bad leg, and went full-in on him being a model..

Here gabriel has many many brands. he ven has his own bank! A powerful man indeed.. I think this may be a carryover...

He is states to have a fear of leaving the house.

Kaan seems to be precursor to Nooroo.

His goal has been evil and domination from the outset. There is no implied "ulterior motive" and his goal is tied directly to the fear of leaving the house. The mother side-plot hasn't been considered yet.

[taldigi]

Marinette/Felix friendship master post

from the 2012 bibles