#LS/DS choice

[legends-chauvinist]

I think of all the false LS/DS dichotomies in the game the worst is in chapter 1 on Taris for the Jedi Knight. Some of you probably already know which choice I am talking about. For those that don't let me bring you up to speed: An imperial agent has kidnapped a republic scientist and is about to administer a truth serum that will reveal details about the superweapon that the scientist helped design. In order to buy time before the JK reaches him he offers to tell them the location of a Sith that's about to massacre republic colonist. Accepting this deal is LS and rejecting it is DS

Here's my issue with that: First and foremost why the fuck would the JK ever believe Watcher 1 at this point. Watcher 1 has been entirely deceitful up to this point. Our characters have zero reason to believe that Watcher 1 is being truthful here. One could argue that the JK would have to be naive to believe him. Furthermore, even if our JK did believe Watcher 1 there's still way to to argue for LS reasons to go after him. The weapon Dr Godera has designed could kill millions; it would very bad if his secrets fell into the hands of the Sith. Therefore the JK could reason they can't let the lives of few dozen colonists outweigh potentially millions.

So in the end we up exposing a weakness in SWTOR's mortality system.

[gothamcityneedsme]

I was gonna make the light side choice but the dialogue was SO not my character i canceled and went darkside (the neutral option 100% ooc lol). And ofc the ds dialogue was so delightfully IN character <3

[ospreyeamon]

playing politics

It’s been said before, but there is a clear disparity in the way the Jedi Consular and Jedi Knight are treated when it comes to their promotion prospects. While both are knighted at the end of their prologues, the Consular is given the rank of Master at the start of Act 2 while the Knight is only maybe promoted again at the close of Act 3.

The Consular’s promotion to Master is political. They are being given the rank because the Jedi Council thinks it will be necessary for the Rift Alliance to take them seriously, not because of anything the Consular has achieved up to this point Hence why they are given the rank upon being given a mission rather than completing one. Which makes sense as the Consular’s achievements during Act 1 are pretty variable.

A Consular who has LS-choiced their way through Act 1’s achievements are very impressive, even if the stint on Alderaan is their only prior diplomatic experience that we know of. A Consular who – despite being asked to shield the afflicted Jedi – chooses to kill them at varying points before accidentally (or “accidentally”) causing the deaths of hundreds more Jedi offscreen by killing Lord Vivicar, I think, probably wouldn’t have been trusted with a sensitive diplomatic post if the Council thought they had a better option. Unfortunately, in this scenario, the better options were probably numbered among the now dead Jedi Masters.

Conversely, the Jedi Knight definitely succeeded in their overall mission in Act 1. They might have been a jerk, they might have passed up opportunities to save or spare people, they might have delayed rescuing Nasan Godera for a loot acquisition detour, but they still did (eventually) retrieve Dr Godera, stop the power-guard project, save Master Kiwiiks and Tatooine, help destroy the death-mark laser, and prevent Darth Angral from torching Tython. The Knight also helps (or “helps”) guide Kira Carsen to Knighthood; successfully training a Padawan is traditionally one of the main gauges the Council uses to determine who is ready to become a Master.

A DS!Knight proves considerably more effective in Act 1 than a DS!Consular, but the Consular is still the one promoted. The promotion isn’t given in recognition of their skills or as reward for their achievements. It isn’t withheld because of any action or shift in alignment. The Consular is promoted at the start of Act 2 because their new mission is to make nice with the politicians; the Knight isn’t because they are assisting other Jedi. If the Consular’s promotion truly was a matter of merit the Knight would have been promoted too.

The end of Act 3 has incredibly stark differences in how a Dark-aligned Consular and Knight are treated by the Jedi Council. Neither of them receives the promotion they would have if they had been Light-aligned, but of the behaviour of the Council towards them is markedly different. The Consular is publicly rewarded. The Knight is publicly snubbed.

“Your relentless pursuit of the First Son merits a unique position. We would like to make you our special military advisor. You will rank alongside us, but work with the Republic, to capture the remaining Children and prepare for any future threat from the Sith.” Jaric Kaedan “Rank alongside? So I would not be a member of the Jedi Council.” Jedi Consular, Option 3 “We would prefer you to focus on assisting the Republic, rather than on Council duties. But this is only a small reward beside the great service you have done, for all of us.” Jaric Kaedan

The post of the Jedi Council’s special military advisor is a promotion, even if it might not be the promotion the Consular wanted. Jaric Kaedan doesn’t say anything to suggest that a Council Seat could have been on the table under other circumstances; the idea is only brought up if the Consular brings it up.

The Consular has experienced a meteoric rise through the ranks; their class story takes place over about three years and they go from Padawan to Knight to Master to senior Master advising the Jedi Council. Going from Padawan to Master in the span of two years is (I think) the fastest turn around we are shown for any Jedi, and most members of the Order never sit on the High Council. Being promoted to Master without having trained a Padawan in any capacity is also highly unusual. The Consular has nothing to complain about.

Even if they do complain, Jaric’s justification is that they don’t want the Consular’s attention split between their work with the Republic and the duties of a Council Member. He is quick to praise the Consular again. No mention of their turn to the Dark Side is made.

“And then there is you. How do we even begin to account for the turns your life has taken since you first arrived on Tython? The dark side has cast its shadow over you. I sense your anger and ambition growing. I can no longer ignore it. I wanted so much for you to become a Jedi Master, but you are not ready.” Satele Shan “What have I done to deserve being passed over? I've saved trillions of people.” Jedi Knight, Option 1 “Your battles on Corellia cost us Master Kiwiiks and dozens of brave Jedi. Your leadership there was questionable, at best. You struck a great blow against the Sith, but the war goes on. There will be other opportunities for you to prove yourself worthy.” or “How much have you sacrificed on your path to victory? What emotions drove these decisions? These are the questions we must answer. You struck a great blow against the Sith, but the war goes on. There will be other opportunities for you to prove yourself worthy.” Satele Shan “Master Satele, this Jedi is one of the greatest war heroes I’ve ever met. He/she deserves recognition for his/her victories. By the authority of the Supreme Chancellor, I hereby grant you the honorary rank of Republic general.” Admiral Dabrin

In contrast, in a Dark-aligned Knight’s class story ending Satele Shan tells them that they are wrathful, power-hungry, under the influence of the Dark-Side of the Force, and not being promoted to Jedi Master. It’s a public humiliation at a ceremony intended to honour the Knight’s achievements. Small wonder Admiral Dabrin tries to patch things over by naming the Knight an honorary general.

Satele Shan did not have to manage the situation with the Knight this way. She could have quietly led the Knight off into a side room before the ceremony and asked them if they knew they were clouded by the Dark Side. She could have had the kind of talk with them that Orgus Din does on Rishi. Making a public spectacle was taking the nuclear option.

Satele can claim that the Knight isn’t being promoted because of their poor leadership on Corellia, but Satele was the one to put the Knight in charge of the Jedi forces on Corellia, possibly over the Knight’s objections. Besides, we the audience know it isn’t the truth. The Jedi Council’s refusal to grant them the rank of Master isn’t tied to any decision they could have taken on Corellia – it is solely determined by their alignment.

The denunciation being so public makes me feel that its motivation was either highly political or deeply personal. Did Satele feel betrayed by the Knight? Did the rest of the Jedi Council even know she was planning on going off script in front of the Republic brass? Was she convinced the Knight’s Dark-alignment was evidence they had done terrible things she would never be able to find proof of?

Was the decision to try to crack down hard on the Knight made because the Consular had also turned but couldn’t be reprimanded without insulting the Rift Alliance? Were Council concerned that members of the Order like Unaw Aharo were admiring a Dark Jedi? Was Satele under pressure to make a statement against Jedi drawing on the Dark-Side while fighting in the war?

But if a DS-choicing Knight got Jedi unnecessarily killed, then a DS-choicing Consular got more Jedi killed; hundreds compared to dozens. If it’s dangerous to have impressionable Jedi looking up to a Dark-aligned Hero of Tython, then it’s no less dangerous to have them admiring a Dark-aligned Barsen’thor. If a Dark Jedi shouldn’t be permitted to become a Master, then a Dark Consular should be demoted rather than set to advise the Council.

There is an incredible double-standard in how the Consular is treated in comparison to the Knight – and a double-standard in how the Consular is treated compared to the norms of the Order. This is surely something people in-universe have opinions about.

[ct7567scyarika]

SWtOR-Tober Day 2: Light Side

A lot of my characters currently are mainly LS, but I'm focusing on my main gal again, Wildfi're. (Look at me actually trying to do backgrounds.) This is when she was 13, during the Sacking of Coruscant.

LORE TIME (currently writing a short story during these events, a prequel to her main.)

Wildfi're was born in Ord Mantell, but when she was three, her family moved to Corsucant where she was raised. At school, she had a good mix of friends and people she didn't get along with, but there was this one girl she could not stand. A girl who would start fights and though Wildfi're resisted and tried to ignore her for a while, she eventually caved and verbally tore into the girl. Then both would get into very heated verbal fights that would land them in trouble.

Then the Sacking of Coruscant happened. Wildfi're didn't live that far from the Jedi Temple, so was in the midst of the worst. She was trying to find her parents and during her search, she found said girl hiding in debris instead. She checked in and at first, the girl started screaming and insulting her because Wildfi're's mother was a Mandalorian and she started accusing her of being part of the attack.

And this moment (her canon event lol) centered her moral compass, which defined her as the Havoc Squad leader; the Outlander. She saw that they were both scared, both impacted by this attack, but ne of them needed to lead them out of the dangers. She didn't just leave the girl until her parents came (if they did ever). She still offered her hand out, telling her to "shut up, we need to work together to survive."

They ended up working together, combing their way through and helping stragglers/survivors that they encountered. They found Wildfi're parents' first, then the girls' came. They didn't trust Wildfi're's family, so they took their daughter and left. She had no idea where they went afterward.

So she is my LS Trooper. Very few times she's done DS options (usually because the only LS option is so ridiculous. Such as letting certain people go who should be arrested or detained at least??? Or the last Class Story choice??) Tried to be subtle in the art with the sun, clouded by the attack, doing a light "halo" around her. (Very very happy with how the sky turned out.

Reference of the challenge below! Saw that the maker has a tumblr so credit to jdiknight! (Didn't tag because I don't want to bother people? It feels weird because I feel like I'm spaming but I want to give credit.)

[rainofaugustsith]

Bad SWTOR choices

I accidentally reblogged and replied on a post I didn't mean to, but I did want to talk about this - how many times the LS/DS choices in SWTOR and particularly KOTFE and KOTET seem completely off base. Top four: The reactor in KOTFE chapter 3. 

Okay, to recap: the Outlander has just been freed from carbonite, where they were slowly being poisoned to death. They are doing so poorly that Lana has to help them walk at some points. They are on a planet they know nothing about. There's a nuclear reactor Vaylin has ripped from its moorings, and the actual nuclear physicists who tend to the thing have given up on it. So of course it's perfectly reasonable to expect the half-dead Outlander to fix it, and to treat them like a monster if they make the sound decision to not try to learn nuclear physics in two seconds. 

Better decision: give the Outlander a choice to try to help people evacuate and make that LS/DS. That would still fit with Koth's desire to help people and could still be used to influence his opinion of the Outlander, but would be more realistically and logically in line with what could be done. Since nobody knows what the Outlander looks like at this point it could also be used to create more conflict/nuance for Zakuulans. They've been told the Outlander is a monster but - this person who looks just like the Outlander saved them. Could Arcann be lying to them?

Senya in KOTET chapter 1. 

So the planet of Voss is being bombed to pieces, and Senya doesn't give a single fuck about that. She just wants you to save her son, the dictator. Who has shown zero remorse and has literally run the Outlander through with a lightsaber. Your two choices: let Genocidal Dictator Boy join the Alliance and work right alongside the people he's actively tried to murder, or refuse and be considered a monster. Choices, choices. 

Better decision: Refuse to save, imprison for war crimes, save, save without joining Alliance. All of which should be neutral. They could have even branched this off further - does Arcann go off to atone through his actions of trying to help rebuild? Do you just let him flee and become a ghost? Is he turned over to the factions and put in jail? Or do you execute him?

SCORPIO in KOTET chapter 5.  HOW many times has SCORPIO lied to you, tried to do away with you and otherwise caused extensive trouble? Bonus for Imperial Agents, how many times in the class story did she casually mention she eventually wants to murder you? Of course, by all means, let her merge her consciousness with the homicidal cyberplanet who has just tried to murder you and has horrific weapons at its disposal. I'm sure no harm could come from that. After all she promised she won't bother you. It's not personal. 

Better choices: - Let SCORPIO merge with the promise of helping you destroy the faction of your choice later (DS - hey, I SAID it's a dark side choice so let's go for the goalpost with it) - Kill SCORPIO (neutral), - oho, what's this? You've been able to completely neutralize SCORPIO and contain her in the Gravestone with the super special top secret program Doctor Oggurobb has been working tirelessly on for months since you learned SCORPIO wasn't dead?? Whoohoo! Victory without death! (LS). 

Dramath in KOTET chapter 7. 

Because you haven't been subjected to Valkorion's family enough, here comes Daddy Dramath. Who is imprisoned in a holocron in a max-security basement crypt and swears, up and down, that he will go away and not bother you if he's set free. I mean, you have so many reasons to take Family Valkorion/Tenebrae at their word, right? It's not like this could be a malicious Force ghost. You've never run into any of those, nope. And it's not like you're on a planet that has been corrupted into something terrible in the Force (or lack thereof) which might make it even more dangerous to release ghosties you meet. 

Better decision: - Free (LS), - Keep - but swear to release after you've defeated Valkorion and keep that promise(LS), - Imprison and tell Dramath he's your servant forever, mwahahaha (DS). Let that be the differentiating factor in whether he helps you or not in KOTET 9. 

[sullustangin]

Spoilers Ahoy: Consular Thoughts

I’m doing a quickie consular story  re-playthrough, and ... I have thoughts, mainly about the companions.

I do like the overall story arc until Chapter 3 when everyone except the Selkath thinks going to Belsavis to make friends is a great idea.  Awakening an imprisoned army is a terrible idea.  This is sort of how I feel about my OC confronting Malgus alone in prison recently: I don’t have a choice not to be stupid, and I HATE that.  LS is “Gonna get new friends for the Republic” and DS is more like “Gonna get new friends to serve me.”  THESE GUYS ARE NOT YOUR FRIENDS.  It’s a lot of risk and no guarantee of reward. I’d mark this as ‘a jump the shark’ moment. 

The Consular also has the inverse problem of the Bounty Hunter:  BH gets all the lighter companions first (Mako most of all) and then gets DS only at the end (death to Skadge).  Meanwhile, the consular gets a Hunt All The Things Uncle Lizard, Guy Who Literally Lives in the Basement with his Holo Girlfriend, and a politically inclined Murder!Noodle. Consular only gets LS Felix and LS Nadia as the last two companions, which results in some problems -- they’re also the romance options, which gives them the least amount of development in the vanilla game. 

To be fair, I think Felix Iresso is one of the least problematic guys in the SWTOR universe.  He’s so kriffin’ sweet.  He’s perfect for a young Jedi.  I totally think there was an attempt at a Jace/Satele parallel here. It’s not toxic and it’s well-paced... minus the fact that he doesn’t show up until Hoth.  Yes, I know what’s in his head...but he’s still a good person before and after the experience in Vanilla.  (I know how he was done dirty in his return -- poor sweet man.) 

For perspective, Hoth is when the smuggler gets their last companion, Guss Tuno.  Corso (f!smug romance option) was acquired in Chapter 1, and Risha (m!smug romance option 1) was acquired at Chapter 1′s end.  Akaavi was acquired in Chapter 2 after Balmorra (option 2).  Even then, Akaavi’s relationship feels better paced just by having her a whole planet early.  I know @swtorpadawan​ and others have commented on how fast the Nadia Grell romance is.  Pair that with her relative youth -- even with the consular being super young themselves, it still feels ‘yikes’, especially in the context you romance her.

I love and hate Qyzen.  He’s a great first companion, part of a cultural immersion experience for a young Jedi.  His hunting for the Scorekeeper works in contrast to the peace that the consular seeks to establish, and yet it does provide a path to that -- sometimes, you do have to fight for the 'greater good’ end result; compliance works for the enemy.   However, on a personal level, I have my political loyalties to Wookiees, and I would cheer for Bowdaar to kick his ass.

I do like Zenith, and not just because he’s voiced by Troy Baker.   There’s a very gritty, realist element to Zenith. After the hero moves on from a planet, what happens to it?  Great, Balmorra is liberated, but it doesn’t fix everything going on there. Should there be ‘necessary evils’ done in the name of politics and managing power? All of the war, death, and other baggage can screw a person up; I read Zenith as walking PTSD, having lived in a war zone all of his life (he was born 3 years after Jace and Satele reported the fall of Korriban, and Balmorra has been a mess since). Zenith is a great foil to a consular, regardless of alignment.  

...I have a really hard time justifying Tharan’s recruitment so early minus the fact he does fit on Nar Shaddaa better than anyone else.  I know the developers tried to keep all of the Pub and Imp players running on the same sets of planets in each chapter...but if there was ever an exception to be made, it should have been for the consular, because I feel like Tharan is taking up an important space that he really shouldn’t. He’s not actively evil, but he’s not a pleasant or honest person. Super skeevy vibes once Nadia joins the crew too.   I feel like a lot of time is spent on Tharan with not a lot of growth or character development to show for it.  I think I feel that way because there’s this weird ‘affair’ the consular is propositioned with early on -- it felt like filler from the start.  It’s not as well done as the Pierce one-night stand.  Some of his comp convos seem tacked on or “oh no we have to make more content for this guy.” 

Nadia’s acquisition as a companion hinges on certain late stage events, but I feel as if the romance would have felt ‘better’ if her father had let her go to be a padawan as soon as she manifested on Quesh.   Then, she could have grown up a little more before the later events and would have been on more equal footing and more familiar terms with the consular, romance or not. 

In sum, I think the consular’s personal story with the crew has great elements, but I feel like they got put together in the wrong order.  To me, companion order would be:  Qyzen, Felix (set him on Tatooine, the opposite temperature cesspit in the galaxy), Zenith, Nadia (on Quesh), and then... Tharan on Hoth because someone unloaded him there? or Belsavis for crimes related to unethical experiments?  Again, Tharan’s convos seem overstretched; the Vandrayk Generator could have really been done in two or three convos rather than the big thing it was in Chapters 2 and 3. 

[translothcat]

here's a better full picture of my swtor sith warrior, amara bolcar

looking at them again I wish there were better female body types in general in swtor :/ ah well. I wanna draw her at some point, but this winter is so cold my hands freeze too much if I wanna draw fjsdhfk

after playing a bit more I find myself again making mostly LS choices, just feels bad being mean :'3 but I've made SOME DS choices so. look at me go. and at least its a definite sith playthrough either way, so I get to actually be an actual sith actually for once

[arvadthecursed]

Alright, I just finished the Trooper story, so here are my thoughts under the cut!

I think a lot of people went into Trooper having played Imperial Agent (the Imperial mirror class) and expecting it to be the exact same, when that just isn't the case. I was thinking about it, and the Agent is supposed to make you feel like Bond; I think the Trooper is meant to evoke feelings of being Arnold Schwarzenegger, a big, tough commando going in guns blazing.

That being said, while I did enjoy the story (mostly for the companions, except for Tanno), it definitely felt... a little half-baked. I've played Consular, Warrior, Inquisitor, and Agent all the way through, and out of those, Trooper has been the weakest, narratively speaking. (Though to be honest, I could argue that Inquisitor is also narratively weak, but it was more interesting to play.)

The first chapter is the best and most frustrating. Going after Havoc Squad was fun! But it was immensely frustrating that you couldn't save any of them, except Fuse if you choose to let Gorik escape -- which I'm guessing most people didn't choose. That gets no follow up on either end, from my understanding. I was annoyed you couldn't even talk to Wraith; you just had to kill her. Everyone else chooses the "oooh I'd rather die" route and you can't stop them.

The second chapter was alright; I liked the super weapon idea, because I think it really fits the Trooper's theme of a badass who runs right into danger. Yeah, you're doing the more secretive operations for the Republic; but you're also running in with a big gun and shooting everyone (I played a Commando).

The third chapter was where I took a long break from Petra, right after Voss. I did enjoy the story on Belsavis, despite it being one of the worst planets in the game, but Voss bored me to tears, and I had to take a break and go play something else. Corellia was actually pretty fun IMO. I enjoyed getting to break the Imperial lines and help the rest of the military get through, and the final fight leading up to Rakton was fun. Rakton himself was a yawn of a boss fight, and I disliked how he was handled in the end. Kill him? Dark side, and Petra isn't that jaded yet. Let him live but keep him as a prisoner? I chose this, because I figured Petra would see him as an asset, someone to get info out of. But when I did that... Saresh wants to just hand him right back over to the Empire??? And it's a dark side choice if you disagree with her?? What the hell??? I would've thought Saresh was gonna just have him killed. That would have been annoying, having spared him, but made more sense for her character.

The companions are really what had me coming back to Trooper. I absolutely love Aric, Elara, and Yuun. I polyship Petra with Aric and Elara. Aric is such a lovely slowburn romance; and Elara is a genuinely kind, loving person. Yuun is a fascinating addition and foil to the rest of the crew. I really liked how much personality he had. The same goes for Forex. While being a one-note character, I could forgive that, because he was written so entertainingly. It was hilarious going up to him, learning he was gonna go kill some Sith Lord, and just being like "cool, have fun, buddy." Tanno was the only one I actively disliked. He's just an edgy asshole, and not even in a fun way.

But! I think that out of all the stories I've played so far, the Trooper companions really feel like they're YOUR companions as a group rather than on a very individual basis. I love that you get a squad that feels like a real squad.

As for LS/DS, I did like how there were shades of nuance. DS actions could be wildly going off course and being a crazy muderman, sure. BUT it could also be blindly following your orders and killing innocent people. LS actions could be taking in prisoners of war, or they could be refusing Garza's orders and trying to mitigate the human cost. Some of them were pretty cookie cutter, but I really liked the little moments like that.

anyway, it was overall fun mostly for the companions and their stories. The story itself was kinda meh. But I put a lot of effort into Petra's character and history and I am proud of that. <3

the squad!

[jb-nonsense]

Jarkiv and Jaesa?

Send Ship suggestions for my OCs

So the Jaesa that is clear in my mind is DS Jaesa. And the struggle with Jaesa in general is well. You've got two version of her. And to be honest, I'm not sure either version would go well with Jarkiv.

While Jarkiv does, at times, make some questionable choices, he's got too much honor in him to be completely DS and DS!Jaesa would be too much for him and he would definitely not even consider a one night stand with her.

And LS!Jaesa? I don't think she'd like some of the questionable choices Jarkiv makes. It could have potential to be the cute rascal and the proper girl set to the tune of Only the Good Die Young by Billy Joel but I don't think it would end up lasting. Jarkiv is a bit too severe when his temper gets riled up in battle and that would be a huge turn off for LS!Jaesa I think.

[piratangmangmang]

DS 121 Defining and Measuring Poverty (keywords)

poverty (lack of choice)

poverty research

poverty management

poverty reduction (alleviation)

poverty eradication (elimination)

poverty breadth (dimensions of poverty)

poverty depth (severity of poverty)

poverty duration (persistence of poverty)

national poverty line

global poverty line

absolute poverty

relative poverty

household poverty

life satisfaction (LS)

unsatisfaction rate

world happiness report (WHR)

happiness progress

cost of basic needs approach (CBN)

basket of items

hunger

poverty threshold

food threshold

food menus

non-food items

vulnerability

inequality

unemployment rate

self-rated poverty (SRP)

precariat

tambay

Other related terms

contractualization

social exclusion

conflict theory

functionalist theory

symbolic interaction theory

idionsyncratic shocks

political efficacy

ningas bao (wagas) vs. ningas kugon approach

convergence approach

Social Weather Station (SWS)

[lordeasriel]

Finally got to War on Iokath and frankly, I still find it hilarious how both the pubs and imps just ... went behind the Alliance's back to get a superweapon capable of mass murder and then they plead to you AFTER they get caught lol

Such a hard decision to make though. Choosing between the Empire and the Republic is a hard choice but as the Wrath I went with the Empire, cause it made the most sense. The Republic was a disappointment during the War on Zakuul, the Empire at least offered you some assistance, which for an Imp character it makes some degree of sense. She's not a dark side character though, so it might have something to do with that.

I do appreciate this choice not being based on LS or DS points. They did a great job portraying the in-betweens during KOTFE and KOTET that I'd hate for the story to go low again. I have played up until Ossus on a previous character, but after that everything shall be very new and I evaded spoilers quite successfully.

[englishlaboratory]

You're not wrong, but I do have to disagree.

I was always thought that the rebuttals to the villains were the gameplay, not the dialogue or cutscenes (which is where the villains plead their cases). That the villains are the ones who have to spout philosophy to justify their actions should also be considered condemnation in and of itself. Doing the right thing generally doesn't require mental gymnastics.

Kreia's view of the Force is a viable interpretation of the first 6 movies, Legends, and Canon, but any good LS playthrough will call her out on her more Ayn Randish and Nietzsche-like tendencies; you disprove her ideas by befriending all the party members and being a good person in general. Meanwhile, a DS playthrough rebuts her entire philosophy by succeeding where Nihilus, Sion, and the Jedi Order failed. In both possible scenarios, you prove her wrong.

In the case of FNV's Legion vs NCR vs House vs Independent, we are asked if freedom (NCR/Independent) or security (Legion/House) matters more. We are then asked our preference of individualism (House/Independent) or collectivism (Legion/NCR). However, each side has a rebuttal built into their interactions with the Mojave. The Legion commits atrocities while Caesar's words contradict his actions, the NCR harms Goodsprings (the guys who saved you) and overextends its resources (seriously, it feels like even the NCR doesn't like the NCR sometimes), Mr. House only does what's good for Mr House (at the expense of everyone else), and the Independent Run doesn't solve any of the problems Mojave Citizens face. None of these options are good; you pick what you think is the lesser of 4 evils (Legion is the worst). I personally choose House or Independent because they're good for Goodsprings, but I understand that the NCR is the more moral choice over all.

I don't think I've played any other Obsidian games, but the pattern is there so far. However, I completely agree that these in-game rebuttals are far more subtle than they should have been. Sorry for the long post.

a little sus that Obsidian always seems to run out of development time for things like “having an actual rebuttal to our well-spoken bad guy’s insane philosophy so the audience doesn’t think we’re presenting them as unambiguously correct and start rooting for them”, in hindsight

[darth-bagel]

So that subversion on Hutta went well, hm?

[ket-fisto]

I wish there was a way to skip certain story bits in swtor instead of entire expansions. Like for example of course I want to do the mandalorian themed flashpoints with my bounty hunter, but the secrets of the enclave flashpoint? Not so much. And my bounty hunter once again felt completely out of place in the entire echoes of oblivion mission, same as she did for most of the kotet/kotfe expansion.

And while of course I want to do these with my Jedi/Sith, does my Jedi have any reason to meddle in mandalorian affairs? Not really.

[sullustangin]

SWTOR 7.3 Feedback

Non-spoilery stuff first

No technical glitches that I experienced on two playthroughs on Pubside.  Minus one or two moments with Odessen NPCs wandering around, nothing broke the game or immersion.  All the quests worked for credit; I had the weekly for Ruhnuk not work the time round, so this was nice. 

I am aware that there are some financial changes they’re trying to patch back.  Basically, too much is being charged between trades with other players directly and when mailing to alts.  Also!  There is now a 30-day cooldown period between joining a guild and being able to access the guild bank. So get those alts in sooner rather than later, especially if you plan on raiding/doing group stuff with them.

On the Gunslingers and Snipers you now have a 2% per 3 seconds passive heal while in cover  -- level 64 option.  This is a big deal for survivability for these two classes.  I ran dailies and set my companion to DPS.  I had to pause and heal the comp after combat, not myself.   No more glass cannon, but this might be nerfed soon, since it’s a little op.  I’m going to have fun with it while I can.

If you love the Mantellian Privateer or Mira’s Armor from KOTOR II but can’t afford either on Cartel Market, good news:  the Mira set from Bounty Association (the event that comes around every 1-2 months) is now unlockable in collections.  So if you have a Mando char that goes hard on Bounty week, you now have a new cert sink + unlock with Cartel Points for the whole account.  There are some subtle differences in the outfits for the discerning Space Barbie player.

The Date Nights don’t happen in this patch; I would guess it will probably be activated during Night Life in July. Speculation on my part, though

Non-Spoilery Plot Stuff:  A lot of characters that we had the previous option to kill are present in this patch.  This really gives me hope for future content; I previously complained that Bioware was writing to the deadest version of the game (where they assume everyone is dead and only work with Lana).  We got A LOT of coverage with ‘optional’ characters, so this does give me hope for the future writing: assume everyone is alive, and some people get less content.  I’ll talk about what that means later for this patch.

Onward to spoilery stuff.

Torian does get an Alliance alert, which his ba’vodu Eva answered; this is unromanced I feel good about the Torian piece I just reblogged, because it seems consistent with what we see here.  Torian thought the drama over his father was over, the shame was done, the name redeemed -- and there is all is, resurrected from the dead.  Even more content with our neighborhood Mando really does make me want equivalent content with Vette; given that (shitty) decision was almost 7 years ago now and we JUST got a storyline with payoff for that choice, Vette needs some love now, romantic or platonic, beyond Date Night. 

The only downside to letting Torian live at the moment, especially if you’re a smug or bh, is that you lose quality screen time with Akaavi Spar on Ruhnuk. She comes to your rescue in the final fight.  I also feel as if this scene should have been back with the 6.2 content drop, when the banner is first stolen, but it does work here as well, with the burning of it compounding all of Torian’s feelings about his history. 

While Eva does hate that burnt tater thot, the content for Arcann was really good.  I actively wonder if they are pulling things from the aborted third KotXX expansion.  THIS is the character development many of us wanted to see before romancing him: we wanted to see the realization of what he’d done, the desire to fix things, the acknowledgement it may never be enough for some people.  Ding Ding Ding!  I did view both versions of the Darth Nul investigation -- I killed him on DS Eva and let him live on my sunshine and Rainbows LS smug Dyo -- and the version with Arcann in it is so much better.  You also get an additional scene with him; romanced folks get a hug! 

Like the Torian scene, this Arcann development probably should have been earlier in the plotline, but WAAAAY earlier -- like 6+ years.  I think before the romance trigger, most definitely, but at least by the time of Nathema, especially if the Commander takes any of his advice to heart regarding Theron.  I think this falls to fan fic writers to fix, in terms of char dev. 

As I mentioned above, both of these guys are killable.  And they got some great content this patch.  The story feels better with both of them in it. 

As for our dynamic duo, Lana and Theron do show up and play a vocal role with Shae in regard to the interrogation of Malgus.  Theron does get to call Shae out on her working with Malgus to sack Coruscant 2x years ago (I have no idea what year we’re in since COVID screwed everything up).  We also get wonderfully protective partners in Lana and Theron.  Theron makes a comment that the work among other “benefits” keep him young if you’ve romanced him -- poor Lana.  There is noticeable smoldering going on between him and the romanced PC.  Theron does provide significant dialogue content and reaction shots, even though he’s killable.  And of course you get a Theron letter, which alludes to Date Night.  In sum, I don’t think Theron was at all side-lined compared to Lana.

The one weak part of all this is the tenuous connection between the Voss and Malgus’s plans.  In part, it’s becacuse Sana Rae had to be on Voss and decided to kill a few birds with one stone (or one Commander).   It boils down to a vision in which the PC saves the galaxy again.  We do get the tidbit that if we outright kill Malgus, things happen faster, but ‘things’ are ‘inevitable.’  Some of the ‘mundane’ quests verge on the ridiculous, but Star Wars always stomps on character hubris when it can. 

Did I enjoy going back to Voss?  Yup.  Did it make sense, given the nature of the Arcann content?  Yup; if you didn’t spare Arcann, this feels more contrived than if you did, in my opinion.  If I recall correctly, Voss was supposed to be visited in an earlier expansion but that was also canned. 

The transition from Bioware to Broadsword may be bringing old things back to life to ‘finish’ the game -- or start a new beginning.  I remain optimistic.  I will say that the old story of Voss and the new story post Eternal Empire does spin together well.

Good patch, in my opinion, minus the issues with the economic system that are ongoing.

[rubensmuse]

i saw this at 5:45am before work started but now i am HOME and so i get to talk about the BUGS with a fellow ENLIGHTENED MIND. I am breathlessly excited to barf my thoughts all over your post OP, please forgive

The thing about light side/dark side choices in this game is that, if you interpret them as “good”/”evil” choices and allow them to guide you philosophically through the story…you can't, because they’re so inconsistent. I mean, sometimes the light side choice is meant to be understood by the player as the "good" option in that it is virtuous - your character is honest instead of lying, compassionate instead of uncaring, open-minded instead of dismissive -- but just as often the LS/DS dichotomy is more the "preserving immediate life choice" vs the "causing immediate death choice". In the opinion of the game, taken as a whole, it’s as Light-Sided an action to expose an evil senator’s corruption as it is to capture a wounded foe as a prisoner and haul him off to be tortured for information, because you have not killed that man with your own hands.

But let’s say you do allow LS/DS to tell you what the game wants you to think is moral.  If you do that, the killiks are unambigously “evil”. Which sounds kind of ridiculous, right? We’re clearly not meant to interpret them as evil, because otherwise we wouldn’t have one of the best love interests in the game (fight me) being a Joiner who deeply values his Joining. Vector and the storylines surrounding him are designed to make the player sympathetic toward the killiks. So lemme explain what I mean.

If you make that dark-side choice that OP mentioned, and threaten the Joiner formerly known as Daria Thul into coming back with you, she will refuse - but the nest will not. Ukunuku understand collectively the danger you pose to them, and they will tell her to leave, and she will then go with you willingly, because more killiks will die if they don’t. She doesn’t percieve this as an act of cruelty on the part of the nest, because she is one with the nest and the nest is just trying to preserve itself.

We also know that, if it were us the player making this choice, the game would consider that choice to be dark-sided because of the Esseles Flashpoint. You’re given a very similar choice: the Imperials attacking your transport full of civvies claim they’ll leave off if you just throw ‘em the ambassador they’re looking for. Maybe they’re telling the truth, and this would save more lives in the long run - but it’s a personal betrayal of a woman who is arguably undeserving of that fate, so doing so nets you 100 DS points. Similarly, the thing that unites most of the LS options across expansions is performing an immediate, individualized virtuous action, and a lot of the DS options involve taking an action that causes harm in the short-term for potential long-term gain.

And like. I do always pick those LS choices. My consular let all those datacrons filled with vital medical knowledge explode, because a woman was in danger, and Jedi help the living breathing people in front of them. And if it were me in real life, I would do the same thing, because I can more easily extend my compassion toward a single individual in front of me than a group of hypotheticals. 

This brings me to why I really really don’t think we can or should base our philosophical interpretation of the Kind based on which choices are LS and which are DS. Those choices were programmed by humans, for humans. While we are a social species, and we can feel unity and camaraderie in a group of other humans, we can only perceive ourselves as individual personalities interacting with other personalities. 

The Kind are not like this at all. It is repeatedly established and emphasized that they experience the universe in a fundamentally different way from non-hive mind species. A killik would absolutely save a precious resource over an individual killik, and might even sacrifice itself to do so, because to them, those lives are not hypothetical in that same way. That killik hears, feels, tastes, and otherwise experiences those killiks as an extension of itself. There’s no thought paid to the atomized instances of suffering, only mitigating the suffering of the whole. And a killik is no more capable of understanding itself as an individual as a human is understanding itself as a member of a hive: it can kinda try, maybe, but it’s always gonna be doing it within the limits of its brain chemistry. Trying to judge their collective actions and values by the morality and values of an individualist species causes massive problems and interspecies animosity, and it's the beating heart of the conflict in Vector’s storyline, the whole reason Falner Oeth tries to fuck the nest over. The question posited is, “Are Killiks a malicious cult or just built differently?” And the answer is, the question is fallacious on the basis of trying to assign malice to a species’ different biological reality. There exists a contradiction between Vector claiming that the Joining should be a gift rather than a tool used to manipulate people, and Vector wanting to forcibly Join all of House Cortess; but the contradiction exists within Vector, who, at the time of the former statement, has gone through loads of character development, during which he has reconnected with his human individuality. By that point he is parroting the player’s assumed values. But back on Alderaan, Oroboro didn’t think they were punishing House Cortess for an indiscretion. They were solving a problem, in a way that also benefited the nest. Oroboro is friends with the Empire, Cortess has harmed the Empire and Oroboro; by Joining House Cortess, an enemy is pacified, and with (theoretically) minimal loss of life on both sides. In this way, trying to assign malice to the process of Joining is like trying to shove a square peg into the round peg.

Now, as to whether or not it is ethical for Vector, or even most Joiners, to remain Joined, and trying to untangle how much of it is their “free will” and how much of it is the pheromones talking: we really can’t know that either. Humans care about things like autonomy, consent, and the ability to choose for oneself because these things are our default state. Klliks feel the exact same way about Joining: a solitary, silent mind is a nightmare. Is it immoral, that Vector was Joined without his knowledge or consent? It is to a human, but a Killik nest would be confused by the concept of asking permission. To them, it might be akin to asking a drowned person’s consent to recieve CPR. Additionally, if Vector was forced to have his Joining undone, we don't know that the return of his full human individuality would be a positive experience. Having experienced that level of unity and harmony, his experience as a singular person without access to the Song of the Universe forevermore might feel isolating, overwhelming, and desolate.

On the subject of The Bugsband, I was originally also gonna use this space to wax poetic about how an underdiscussed aspect of this is that Vector Hyllus, our primary and almost exclusive window into Joiners as a group, is the Dawn Herald and by extention not a typical Joiner, and that using what we get from him to characterize all Joiner experiences is kind of like an alien species gauging both the dimensions of the average human face and the size of the average human junk from Willem Dafoe. Unfortunately that’ll have to wait, because I have literally stayed up past my bedtime writing this first bit. I can only hope you’ve enjoyed reading this as much as I enjoyed concocting it. 

I’m gonna go to sleep now, and dream of bugs.

Okay, so I'm still working my way to answering my ultimate question: Are Killiks a malicious cult or just built differently (or maybe bits of both)?

I've found the fandom's opinion of Killiks so interesting. Mostly cuz of how different everyone's thoughts are. On one hand, you have people who fully support Vector's choice to stay a joiner. On the other hand, there are people who believe it should be a light side choice to separate him from the hivemind and make him human again.

I'm having a hard time finding what camp I fall in. I really like the idea of a hivemind race that's sole purpose isn't to consume all life, like you see in a lot of media. Maybe they're just living and surviving in a way that makes sense to them, but not to a human.

Vector tells the player character that the Kind never force anyone to become Joiners, but that's directly disproven due to the House Cortess incident. Making Vector a somewhat unreliable narrator. It's even implied that Vector might not have joined the Kind willingly to begin with.

I really want to believe in the best possible version of Killiks, but I keep circling back around to the possible cult-like behaviour. When Vector says he wants to stay a Joiner, how much of that is the Hive's influence?

Clearly, the Hive isn't for everyone. Vector outright says he doesn't think the player character should become a Joiner. So it doesn't feel like trying to get as many living things to become a part of the hivemind kind of situation (but again, is that the Killik or human side of Vector talking? Who knows?)

The writers don't seem to find people joining the hive to be a totally bad thing. It's a light side choice to let Daria Thul stay a joiner and lie to her father about it.

If the Kind were a totally malicious force, wouldn't the light choice be to return Daria to her father and have her turned back into a human?

And to add on to that why would one of the nests teach Vector that “suppress the pheromones” thing if the Killik hivemind really wanted full control over everyone in their collective.

The realistic answer to all this is that SWTOR is a big game. The writing, for as solid as it is, is capable of getting confused.

But that answer is boring and I choose to overanalyse these space bugs instead 💜

A big part of this for me is that's an interesting writing opportunity. I'm currently considering writing a Joiner character into the main Force of Nature story. The discussion around it would be an interesting scenario for my OCs. Characters that are often trying to make good decisions for people they care about, having to approach a situation involving a friend that doesn't have a solid "right answer" to pick.