#LIKE I WAS ONE OF THE BIGGEST MCU STANS OUT THERE

[icyfox17]

AO3 Top Relationships Bracket- Round 2 Side 2

Wilbur & Technoblade & Tommyinnit & Phil are here as a platonic/familial relationship.

This poll is a celebration of fandom history; we're aware that there are certain issues with many of the listed pairings and sources, but they are a part of that history. Please do not take this as an endorsement, and refrain from harassment.

[gwandas]

Okay but what are the top 5 bullet points for hating MCU Spiderman? His arc? The actor? Accuracy?

You probably forgot you sent me this but I DIDN'T. This is a very serious question to be asking me and thus this is probably much longer than you initially bargained for <3

His friend group is ass. MCU MJ and Ned exist to be his yes men, they always help him, they always get along, it sucks and it's boring. People always dog on the Raimi movies because the Peter-MJ-Harry triangle is toxic but honestly that's nothing compared to the drama the original Peter-Gwen-MJ-Harry-Flash had going on. That shit would kill an MCU stan they were SO messy... and that was what made it fun and juicy. Peter's complex interpersonal relationships are so so crucial to Spider-Man. One of the reasons he became so popular is because the Peter Parker part of his story was just as interesting as the Spider-Man part, people loved his personal problems! That's why his supporting cast are just as well known by even casual fans.

Stole too many plot points and personality traits from Miles Morales. For example, see point no. 1, MCU Ned Leeds is literally just Ganke (Miles' best friend) that they slapped a Ned Leeds nametag onto.

Tony Stark and MCU Peter's desperation to be an Avenger. I actually cannot stand the desperation it's pathetic and unbecoming. Comic Peter Parker would tell MCU Tony Stark to go fuck himself on the regular if he pulled the stuff he does in the movies. Spider-Man is also not even close to as fun when he has access to all the toys and funds he could want. Also the first time he meets the Avengers in the comics they literally stalk him trying to get him to join and he keeps going "LEAVE ME ALONE" so I think it's funny MCU Peter is so desperate to be one

The personality could not be worse. One of my favorite things about Peter is that he's a reluctant hero. He wants to do the right thing, use his powers for good, but it always comes at a cost to his personal life. The constant push and pull and deliberate decision to be a good person when he doesn't want to... I love that about him. There are always hard choices in a good Spider-Man story. I once saw a movie critic that said "MCU finally gets Spider-Man right. He's a happy go lucky guy that loves being a superhero." Literally every word of that sentence is incorrect. People think that because comics are so vast, with different authors and different ways they're written that you can do whatever you want in the movie and it's fine... NO. There can be some variance, sure, but Peter has always had a distinct personality. Sure sure sure you can tweak things here and there, I'm not saying Peter always has to be portrayed as a selfish asshole who's always broke and never happy (because obviously there are times in the comics when he isn't those things) but you can't change EVERYTHING at once. Making him a guy that loves being a superhero and has zero personal life problems (aside from ??? wanting to vacation in europe and get with the girl he likes)... literally destroys everything interesting about the character.

Less about him and more about the conversation around him, my biggest pet peeve used to be people that would go "well this is the third reboot, of COURSE he's different." well NO because the MCU chose to adapt Peter Parker and Peter Parker has a specific personality and storyline. "Of course they changed the storyline" first of all they had a million options and could've just inserted an adult Peter into the MCU if they didn't want to do his origin story, but his origin story is important... I honestly think the decision to skip over it is what caused the terrible writing because without that origin you've removed all his motivations and drive. You can't just say hey we'll use Peter Parker but in order to differentiate ourselves we'll make him unrecognizable... just use a different character at that point... LIKE MILES which is what SO many people said before Homecoming came out.

Bonus: My favorite hate posts I found on my blog from like 2019 or whatever

https://gwandas.tumblr.com/post/187539416484/beerecordings-portrayal-of-aunt-may-really-tells

https://gwandas.tumblr.com/post/188036695984

https://gwandas.tumblr.com/post/187480534389

https://gwandas.tumblr.com/post/187177201644

https://gwandas.tumblr.com/post/187158420054

https://gwandas.tumblr.com/post/187154929204

https://gwandas.tumblr.com/post/187153389594/mcu-had-the-audacity-to-have-a-grown-women-force

https://gwandas.tumblr.com/post/187152145584/peter-parker-is-leaving-the-mcu-i-didnt-know-he

https://gwandas.tumblr.com/post/186857669531/wlwintersoldier-here-is-my-argument-on-why-tony

https://gwandas.tumblr.com/post/186839380098

https://gwandas.tumblr.com/post/186835788169/wow-i-sure-do-love-peter-parker-who-made-his-mark

https://gwandas.tumblr.com/post/186758593029

https://gwandas.tumblr.com/post/186450361464/spidermanwlw-me-and-the-girls-when-a-new-mcu

[destinyc1020]

Sorry Destiny, but I feel that you are being dismissive to those Tom fans. Any actor would like to work with Nolan, but any fan of an actor wants their fav to be sought for their talent, not their persona or who they are associated with.

The issue is that Tom and Z fans are so overlapped with Z with the majority that lost dislike Tom a lot. You have made a conscious choice to opt out of Twitter, but most of us haven't, and the worst tweets we see of Tom are from hers stans at times, undermining him. Like, you don't have to like your favs bf but the respect is not there.

You are right that Tom and Z are not the first couple to work with each other but is it a crime to want to have a project with Tom where he works with a new director and has a female costars that is picked whose fanbase that is neutral towards Tom? The biggest issue I remember that was brought to your blog was that Tom doesn’t have any real fans and that they were either from Spiderman or tomdayas, which is fine, but that's the same as other male actors.

Glen Powell has hit man, ABY, and Twisters working with upcoming actresses of the next gen. Yes, he would probably will work with Sydney again, but it's a range of actresses that keeps it exciting for fans.

Tom doesn't have that range of female costars albeit he works with unknowns but even the possibility of him working with Sydney causes some fans to get mad like that would not be good for him careerwise, I don't like her but her fanbases is hig for a reason.

These are just my thoughts.

but any fan of an actor wants their fav to be sought for their talent, not their persona or who they are associated with.

Tom IS sought after for his talent Anon. Did you miss the part where Nolan said that he had been wanting to work with Tom for YEARS?? 🥴

You have made a conscious choice to opt out of Twitter, but most of us haven't,

And who's fault is that? 🤔

and the worst tweets we see of Tom are from hers stans at times, undermining him

Yes, SOME of Z's stans can be very cruel about Tom online, but you're forgetting that there are also a LOT of Z stans who actually LIKE Tom, or have come to like him over the years.

You also forget that maybe some fans seeing Tom and Z in a non-spidey project together might help change the view of some people online. You're already looking at this as a negative thing, but it might actually end up being a very GOOD thing, because Nolan films will bring in a totally different audience than just the Marvel/MCU movie-going crowd. Just saying.... 👀 😁

You are right that Tom and Z are not the first couple to work with each other but is it a crime to want to have a project with Tom where he works with a new director and has a female costars that is picked whose fanbase that is neutral towards Tom?

Tom IS working with a new director, and he IS going to be working with new female costars. Last I checked, Tom hasn't worked with Anne Hathaway before. And we still don't know who else they may add to this film. We may get some additional cast members added to this film. Just wait and see.

Also, if you think that most fanbases are neutral towards Tom, you may be mistaken. Tom is a HUGE star. Most people know who he is. You either like him, are lukewarm about him, or you don't like him. It's plain and simple. 🤷🏾‍♀️

And again, most of Z's fanbase does not hate Tom. If you get off Twitter you will see that a lot of Z's stans like Tom and love that Z is happy. 😊

Tom doesn't have that range of female costars

And if he doesn't, then who's fault is that?? Maybe, Tom's main focus isn't what trendy new female costar he can work with, but what role really calls to him and seems interesting to HIM.

Besides, I'm sure Tom is the one who was cast first in MOST of his more current lead roles. Who they cast as female actresses came AFTER Tom was cast. So, if you have a problem with that, go blame the casting directors. But 9 times out of 10, Tom is the one who the role is centered on for most of his more recent lead roles, so most of the time he's not even aware of who they will cast as a woman in his films until MUCH later. 🙄

Look...Idk what "range" of female actresses you're wanting Tom to have, but he's worked with quite a few great female costars outside of Zendaya....

Naomi Watts, Saoirse Ronan, Ciara Bravo, Sofia Ali, Gwyneth Paltrow, Tati Gabrielle, Francesca Amewudah-Rivers, Emmy Rossum, Amanda Seyfried, Marisa Tomei, Daisy Ridley, etc.

What is the problem? 😵‍💫

I swear, some fans just love to complain, and then don't even make any sense when trying to explain the reason for being upset.

Lastly, I don't see what Glen or Sydney have to do with this discussion at ALL.

[crash476]

Conspiracies and the Problem of Peggy Carter

I bounced really hard off the Captain Carter version of Peggy Carter. For me, it felt like the triumph of her style over any quality she had as a character. I’ve spoken about this before, but I think giving Peggy dementia robbed her of her voice, unable to speak to her past, and thus providing a blank canvas for the writer and audience to use with as they will.

My biggest critique of Peggy’s fans have been this sense that they love her aesthetic and the platitudes over the substance of the character. She became 2010s girlboss. The Agent Carter series did provide the potential to further explore her as a character. It could give her a past pre-dating Steve, show the history of SHIELD, show her as a leader, and delve into the moral complexities of the MCU intelligence side. But that never happened. The show was canceled after two seasons and all we had left was a very marketable aesthetic.

We have some vague notions of what she did during her time as director of SHIELD, but nothing substantial. Then Endgame happened, Chris Evans left for other projects, and the Russos, Markus and McFeely seemed to have scrambled for a way to write out Steve. Steve’s exit seemed like an afterthought at best. As a consequence, whatever lore Peggy had in the main MCU timeline got completely thrown out. This is because Steve Rogers is a heroic paragon and his designated love interest must be above reproach. She is little more than a sexy lamp and when Captain Carter got attention in the What If... series, well she’s even more marketable now! 

The thing that gets me about Peggy’s haters is the level of reaching done to justify their dislike. I’ll get to some of my critiques on how Disney/Marvel Studios handle the espionage side of the MCU (not well). But stay with me here. I need to do some comic book history. 

The MCU Peggy Carter is an amalgamation of a number of love interests Steve’s had over his publication run. Earth-616 Peggy is a retcon love interest. She was introduced in 1966 after Steve’s book was essentially rebooted. Captain America was popular during WWII, but the initial post-war years weren’t kind to superhero comics. Atlas Comics (who later rebranded as Marvel Comics in 1961) tried to rebrand Steve from a Nazi puncher to a Commie smasher that went over like a lead balloon. His book was canceled in 1954 and Stan Lee and Jack Kirby revived Steve in 1964. They came up with the “on ice” backstory we saw in the TFA. The 50s Cap was explained as having been a succession of other characters acting as Steve, such as Jeffrey Mace (Patriot), William Naslund (Spirit of ‘76), and most infamously by William Burnside. 

Anyway, during the 50s, Bucky got shot and was replaced by Steve’s then girlfriend, Betsy Ross (then known as Betty and later goes by the code names Agent 13 and Golden Girl). She is THE original love interest and first appeared in Captain America Comics #1, published in December 1940, created by Joe Simon and Jack Kirby. She basically did everything in the 40s comics that Peggy in the 60s (and the MCU by extension) was said to have done. The reason you’ve never heard of her is because of Betty Ross Banner - The Hulk’s main love interest. 40s Betsy got retconned into a relationship with Jeffrey Mace (one of the guys who was a retconned 50s Cap) and now lives in a retirement home.

Sharon and Peggy Carter get introduced in 1966. Sharon’s got a complicated story that we don’t have time to unpack so I’ll just say, Sharon is messy and that’s good. I think it’s good that she’s the Power Broker. Steve later dated glass-blower turned lawyer Bernie Rosenthal, who was introduced in 1980. He’s had an on/off relationship with former villainess Rachel Leighton, aka Diamondback (who was introduced in 1985). And there were romances with fellow super heroines like The Black Widow, Wasp, Rogue, and The Scarlet Witch.

Now we move onto the conspiracy theory Peggy Carter haters adore: Cynthia Glass. 

Cynthia “Cindy” Glass was created in 1991 by Fabian Nicieza and Kevin Maguir for The Adventures of Captain America #1 - #4. She had four total appearances before she was killed. There was apparently a guid book for the MCU where she was mentioned as an inspiration for MCU Peggy, but I’d like to see those receipts before I make a call on the veracity of the claim. But I can see why the Peggy haters claim her as the true inspiration of MCU Peggy. Cynthia kind of looks like Hayley Atwell (if you squint) and is revealed to be a Nazi double agent who gets shot. 

Look, if you don’t like a character (and maybe their actor, too), it’s fine. Just don’t fuck with them and move on, don’t make up shit about a character being a secret Nazi when there’s no actual proof. And don’t say that Cynthia Glass was Cap’s first love when she was a clear retcon that completely contradicts previously established canon regarding Betsy Ross and Peggy Carter. Especially when anyone can look up the publication history. At most MCU Peggy kind of looks like Cynthia and met Steve just before he got the serum. The decision to keep Atwell’s brown hair could easily have come down to “she looks better as a brunette.” Film production decisions are often not that deep. 

Peggy Carter was probably the most convenient love interest to adapt for TFA. She doesn’t have Betsy’s name problem. Sharon needs to be established as being Peggy’s niece to explain why they look so similar. You need to justify a face-turn for Rachel. And the only people who know about Cynthia Glass are those who read the original limited run she was in during the early 90s as it looks like it wasn’t collected into a trade paperback until 2018. Again, film production devisions are not often not that deep.

So now we get to my critiques of how Disney/Marvel Studios have handled Peggy and just the spy genre in general. Spy fiction can vary wildly in terms of tone and just how heroic the protagonist is, but generally the genre leans towards a cynical world view. This is fueled by the author’s own politics, and by their own experiences if they worked in intelligence themselves (ie: John le Carré and Graham Greene). The genre also borrows heavily from hardboiled detectives (think the works of Raymond Chandler) and film noir. In any case, the protagonist is, at best, an anti-hero and sometimes a terrible one. The nature of intelligence work requires moral compromises, both in and out of fiction. If you actually look into how that world operates, it’s honestly more like organized crime backed by a nation’s treasury and given the fig leaf of respectability because you’re “fighting for a cause.” 

This runs headlong into the MCU retcons when it comes to Peggy. By making SHIELD older than originally implied and putting Peggy in charge during the early days, she now has a fuck ton of skeletons in her closet. The problem is that Disney will never produce anything that is critical of the US government or could be as cynical as the spy genre demands. Yes, there was Agents of SHIELD, but that show (and I say this with love) has more in common with NCIS than The Sandbaggers or Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy. Disney is too scared of biting the hand that feeds. They’re scared of getting cut off from Pentagon money. This is Disney’s lone fear, and it shows how toothless The Falcon and the Winter Soldier was. They just come up to the edge of valid critic, actually showing how the empire works.

Bringing this back to the problem Peggy, because the Russos, Markus and McFeely needed her to be morally pure so she could be Steve’s perfect love interest. She can’t have a past, red on her ledger, or anything that puts her into a compromised position. It’s probably why Steve goes back to 1949 and gets with Peggy before SHIELD really starts. That way, Peggy hasn’t done anything wrong. The audience is asked to forget about Zola and the HYDRA infiltration (though it’s never explained what she knew when). The Bucky situation is a bit different, and the Cynthia Glass conspiracy requires you to forget that in universe the Winter Soldier is treated as an urban legend within the intelligence community. Natasha brings up in TWS that no one can agree if he’s real. Given the few crumbs we have on Peggy’s tenure as director of SHIELD, the most I’m willing to say is that she might have know that the Winter Soldier was real. But with hindsight, I think the HYDRA infiltration was pulled off badly. 

Like if I had my way, the Peggy Steve meets after he’s unfrozen would be played by an older actress like Judi Dench, Maggie Smith, or the late Diana Rigg. That way she can speak for herself in the present. If I had my way, Agent Carter would have lasted longer and Peggy would have become something along the lines of DC’s Amanda Waller mixed with Dench’s M with a dash of George Smiley’s moral grounding. We could get a more accurate understanding of Peggy and SHIELD and even if you still don’t like her, she’s still a character with actual depth. And maybe Captain Carter would just be a fun “what if...” and not a free mulligan. 

Cause it really feels like Disney wants to wipe the slate clean and rewrite Peggy as a morally uncomplicated heroine who can be Steve’s un-problematic girlfriend.

[stankrhodes]

Secret Invasion Ep. 4 Spoilers

As a Rhodey stan... i have a couple words and no words at the same time.

I think a lot of people online and in online MCU communities were mystified by the idea of someone [and that someone being Rhodey] being a Skrull that they failed to consider the implications of such a decision? and that generalization is itself one i'm not too confident in making but i find it to be the case nonetheless.

still, with so many communities talking about it... the actual reveal just felt so lackluster. Rhodey is a character, however you may see him, that has already shown so much heart, love, care, soul, realness, and groundedness that in revealing that he's a Skrull just doesn't... do the phase 1-3 versions of him justice at all.

And while I could go on a million rants about why I hate this decision (most of which involving my relationship with the phase 1-3 version of him that is being disregarded for the sake of moving phase 5 forward...), the main thing i wanted to rant about right here is the when.

When did Rhodey become a skrull?

I fear that neither of the two theories I have in mind means anything good for the Rhodey fans that value his relationship with Tony.

He's been a Skrull since Iron Man 3 (or somewhere around that time give or take a few years). (This one i'm not sure they would actually follow through with just because as much as the MCU says they're forward-thinking, some of their decisions lead me to believe the contrary.) This is rooted in the use of extremis, a project that was experiencing issues in the film and Tony figured out how to stabilize for the sake of saving Pepper Potts's life. While SHIELD would have had this technological information as a result, there is a strong possibility that the events of Iron Man 2 may have convinced some people that Rhodey would be willing to even give up that information which was personal to Tony for a greater gain (or even something not in his control if he were coerced into such an action).

He, as a very popular theory suggests (one that i also take issue with), became a Skrull following the events of Captain America: Civil War. In this film, he was critically injured during the battle in the Leipzig-Halle Airport where Vision shot a blast through the War Machine suit, leaving Rhodey paralyzed from the waist down. My personal issue with this theory is that I've always had an issue with the way Rhodey's tone toward the Sokovia Accords shifted between CA:CW and Avengers: Infinity War (where initially expressed full support for them in CA:CW but was then extremely lax [admittedly the circumstances were what they were] during IW). However, logistically speaking, when could there have been a better time for a Skrull to take on his likeness? After Thanos' snap? After Tony's snap? Before Falcon and the Winter Soldier? It seems like the most seamless transition had to have occurred during the time that Rhodey was seriously injured in CA:CW.

All of this is merely speculation. However, one of the biggest plotholes of the entire Secret Invasion series so far has been the lack of clarity on when these prominent figures became Skrulls. Hopefully, I'm wrong with all of this. Still, this won't change the impact of the one character from the earlier phases of the MCU that actually recalls the events of IM1,2,3, A1,2 CACW, etc. being a Skrull. It won't take back the pain that comes with the knowledge that to some degree or another, the face of a close friend of Tony Stark was involved in such heinous acts (almost directly paralleling the relationship between Steve Rogers and Bucky Barnes in the mcu as well) and I fear the implications for the upcoming Armor Wars film won't be kind for the version of Rhodey that will awaken in a world where everything has changed.

[polysyndetonaddictsupportgroup]

ik u never intended for this but in ur little peters jumping universes plot idea do u have any idea abt how does pete’s universe’s bucky react to there being ghost tours looking for him around nyc? if he goes back to nyc do people assume he’s a ghost? does he question how this rumor got started? what are the logistics of having a ghost tour to spot someone who’s literally a live human being with a job

it was actually intended in the sense that this exact matter was a plot point that I fully planned for in the fic but just didn’t mention in the post because i didn’t mention most of the plot points. It’s literally such a big fic. Y’all got maybe like 10% of it in extreme summary.

Context of things established earlier in the fic to make sense of how Pete’s Bucky is brought in:

Peter B’s Bucky and Steve are actually pretty established in Pete’s universe. They have no plans of leaving. Steve’s folks came over from Ireland on the boat and never fucking left and he doesn’t see why he can’t do the same with universes. They’re actually happier than ever here. They can get peace and heal and live the life they always wanted to before the war.

Peter B’s Steve is MCU!Sam Wilson’s biggest fan. He has a Twitter Stan account where he fights people on the internet over how amazing Sam is. He is the president of the Sam Wilson Captain America Fan Club. He just thinks he’s absolutely swell. He’s convinced Sam is the One True Captain America and is seriously considering finding the Sam from his home universe to pass the Captain America mantle onto him. As a note, Sam from Peter B’s universe is not involved in superhero shenanigans and is working at the VA having had no contact with the avengers ever. Steve’s genuinely planning what may as well be the plot of a wattpad self insert fanfic wherein living legend Captain America who went missing six months ago appears on your doorstep to tell you he thinks your amazing and pure of heart and needs you to bear his mantle. This is a terrible idea but it’s also a hilarious one so no one has told Steve to stop planning.

As mentioned in the last post, both just sort of got dumped in Matt’s apartment (he had the biggest apartment and also Matt was such a big idiot that it cut clean through Bucky’s hydra programming and violently activated his much deeper engrained The Fuck Did Steve Do Now instincts and he was more himself than ever when he was bitching Matt out for being a fucking moron. He can’t make him leave it’s basically therapy for him to stay with Matt he’s getting his memories back) and then refused to leave. Matt hates this deeply. Bucky won’t stop nagging him about his sleep schedule and Steve somehow keeps outdoing him in insanity. How the fuck do you outdo a blind vigilante who’s also an attorney who fights crime in an under armor tshirt. He appears to visibly hate them.

The thing is that Matt’s really in hell because Steve and Bucky live these horribly structured military lifestyles that are still somehow almost quaint and he’s trying to pull off sewer rat chic over here. He keeps finding them in his kitchen at 6am cooking big breakfasts so they can all get a good start to the day. Let him shuffle out the door with a granola bar and a broken rib like god intended.

Unfortunately he’s also the biggest slut in comics and he did sleep with both of them. This was a bad idea, like most of his ideas are. He’s horribly allergic to commitment (and in love with foggy) and did not think far enough ahead to realize that he can’t ghost two supersoldiers and strategic masterminds who are squatting in his apartment. Bucky hired himself to be Nelson, Murdock, & page’s secretary. He cannot fucking get rid of them and they keep asking him what they are.

So the thing is that, consistent with MCU’s take on the multiverse, there are some people who are identical to the other multiversal counterparts and some who look different. All of the Peters look different. Mr. Murdock is a slightly older version of Matt but is identical enough to pass as a twin. Peter P’s Matt (I forgot to mention he goes by “Red” here) looks similar but has red hair like in the comics and looks like the younger, angrier younger brother of the other Matts.

Peter B’s Steve is identical to Pete’s Steve except he dresses like a godless hipster. Peter B’s Bucky is also identical to Pete’s Bucky except he lost the other arm. They have made no efforts to disguise themselves.

Honestly the only reason why they have gotten away with this so far is because Steve Rogers is supposed to be dead and not a barista named Frodo and whenever anyone asks Bucky if he’s Bucky Barnes he takes off his glove and wiggles his flesh arm and says no, Bucky Barnes is missing an arm, they just look similar and no one ever asks to check the other arm. It keeps working when it shouldn’t.

Pete is referred to them both exclusively as Queens and they both adore him endlessly for reasons that have to do with how Bucky got free of hydra programming that would take way too long to summarize here. They just love that little guy and will punt someone over his continued safety.

Okay now for MCU!Bucky and Sam coming in:

The thing is the internet is full of really fucking stupid rumors and they don’t pay attention to most of them. Like, they’re busy people. They’re doing world saving stuff. Gossip rags and internet blogs will say anything. Last week some random site claimed that Sam was pregnant with Steve roger’s baby, which made zero sense. They briefly see it when Pete first starts perpetuating the rumor, think it’s just some random internet troll thing, and immediately forget it in favor of more important things.

Then the rumor grows and there’s ghost tours and someone asks them about it on the Tonight Show. Some people legitimately thought bucky was dead and he keeps having to correct them. This may be more serious than they thought.

The thing is that while "these are the ghosts of Captain America and Bucky Barnes, a man who is currently alive, haunting the streets of brooklyn" is obviously not what's going on, something is. there's absolutely two vigilantes operating in the area who are enhanced--and seem to be enhanced in a lot of the ways steve and bucky were/are.

The thing is that "this is an alternate universe version of myself who immigrated here and now works as a secretary in a law office by day and fights crime at night" is just not something that comes to mind when people wonder what's going on. It's just not. They're more concerned with impersonators/copycats. Even if it's all just a coincidence, there's two very enhanced vigilantes who popped up in Brooklyn who may end up being assets (or enemies) one day. They decide to go to the area and ask around.

The thing is that Peter B's Steve and Bucky are not subtle men, okay. They made zero efforts to disguise themselves. Bucky did not change his name. Steve changed his name to fucking Frodo, which is worse, because a good way to attract close attention of strangers is to tell them your name is fucking frodo. They're both highly active in community organizing also and outreach for veterans and do a lot of grassroots initiatives, so they're pretty well known in both hell's kitchen and brooklyn. So MCU!Bucky rolls up and immediately gets recognized, not as Bucky Barnes, the Winter Solider, but as Bucky Barnes, that nice man who looks hauntingly like The Winter Soldier Bucky Barnes and coincidentally has the exact same name but is not missing the arm.

Look okay its new york aliens fall from the fucking sky every tuesday now people have more important shit to handle than whether that nice dude who is highly active in a youth outreach program and who you can ask to walk you home at night is secretly a clone of bucky barnes who is dating a poorly disguised clone of steve rogers or whatever. it ain't their business. he's a nice guy they're leaving him be.

anyway it's stupidly fucking easy to find Bucky Barnes Who Has An Arm hanging out at the coffee shop of his boyfriend, Frodo the Barista, who only happens to look like a hipster Steve Rogers.

(Sam: excuse me, are you Bucky Barnes, from the Avengers?

Peter B's!Bucky, not even looking up from his phone: *takes off his glove with his teeth and waggles his fingers* nah man Bucky Barnes is missing his left arm. i just look like him.

Sam, not missing a beat: what about your right arm

Peter B's!Bucky, who never had this happen before: Ohno.exe

Frodo The Barista, turning around for the first time: I have an oat milk latte for Jessica

MCU!Bucky: :o :o :o)

Anyway they have to wait for the end of Steve's shift to answer any of their questions like "who are you people" and "what the hell do you think you're doing" and "why is Steve named fucking Frodo." it's a lot of bucky nervously sweating in his chair while MCU Sam and Bucky stare daggers at him.

They tell them everything, immediately, in full detail. Steve thinks Sam is the One True Captain America and is his biggest fucking fan. Sam cries a little.

Also Queens told them that this universe's Sam and Bucky were actually good dudes and weren't like, evil versions of Sam and Bucky. So they figure it's fine.

Peter B's Steve and Bucky's stance on the whole matter is that it's a nonissue. They're just planning on living their lives as they are. They don't see why anything needs to change. They're not going to get involved in this world's large scale conflicts--they're street level heroes in this world and not interested in being more, and also once the government gets involved that means that their entire deal with the Spider-Men and the Daredevils goes to shit. They trust Sam and Bucky to keep quiet on it. if MCU!Bucky and Sam want to pop by every now and then and hang out, they wouldn't mind. Steve's sort of a huge fan.

MCU!Sam and Bucky have been blue screening through the last fifteen minutes of this explanation. What the fuck is going on.

Peter B's Steve and Bucky basically invite them back to have dinner/meet Matt, who they understand to be a normal lawyer who is in a sort of polycule with multiverse hopping Steve Rogers and Bucky Barnes? What the fuck is going on.

Of course they bring them back to an apartment and it's immediately apparent that it's Matt Murdock, that one blind attorney who everyone thought was daredevil for a bit until his twin brother Mike, who no one knew existed, showed up in his court hearing in a full red formal suit, flirted with multiple people including the judge, fought the court security team, and disappeared only to remain at large even today. what the fuck is going on.

(Steve: babe we're back we brought the guests we mentioned

matt, from the other room: THANK GOD TAKE THEM AND LEAVE

Bucky, who has long chalked this up to Matt's weird sense of humor and prickly personality, after all, why would he keep sleeping with them if he actually was trying to get rid of them: what do you think of pasta for dinner

matt: WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT FINDING SOMEWHERE ELSE TO LIVE

Sam: what the fuck is going on.)

Honestly it's one of those things where they end up decide to let this go on without interference. They come by sometimes to visit, but not often. It hurts, kind of? Steve and Bucky are happy and together here in a way they never got to be in this universe. Steve's still there, and still alive, and he's honestly happier than Sam or Bucky ever saw their version of Steve? Sam only knew him after the ice, after he lost everything and got caught up in endless conflicts and political machinations and just basically became a soldier who never got to come home from the war. Bucky knew Steve in better times, but it was like. still the Great Depression and Steve was still a queer disabled person in a world that really fucking hated queer people and disabled people. It's always nice when they come to visit but they always kind of leave with a feeling of loss? It constantly reminds them of what they never got with their steve. They need time for the wound to heal before they can spend more time with them.

at one point Steve does in fact go through with his plan to track down his universe's Sam Wilson and bestow upon him The Mantle of Captain America and make him the main character of a Y/N fic and there's a very confused Sam Wilson running around with them as a sort of six months Captain America practical training course who gets coffee with MCU!Sam Wilson

[quillsmora]

Hopefully it's okay to ask you a question because I'm wondering do you know why Gamora hasn't been included in the vol 3 merch? I ran across some stuff a while ago and when she wasn't included I assumed it was just a one off incident. But I just ran across some other merch and she's still absent. So I'm not sure if they are waiting for the movie to create merch for her or what

Firstly, it's always okay to ask me questions about this stuff! I love talking about film marketing (I did study this stuff for 2 years after all). Always feel free to send me asks about anything!

As for your question here's my honest answer: I'm not entirely sure. There are a few logical conclusions though.

Spoilers. Historically the first wave of MCU merch is very clean when it comes to the events of the movie, only featuring characters we know will be in it and vague aesthetics that align with the plot. So far the main advertisements and merch for Vol 3 have featured the Guardians in their comic-accurate group suits, which we haven't seen Gamora in. She might end up getting that suit in the movie, but we have no idea and that would be a major spoiler, so it's easier to leave her out of cereal box promotions and toy box art to keep that unified aesthetic.

Along the same lines as spoilers but deserving of their own point is the LEGO sets. LEGO sets are 50/50 when it comes to being accurate to the events of the movie because again, spoilers. The Endgame sets they released to go along with the movie had absolutely nothing to do with the actual plot because sets get leaked so often and Disney didn't want the plot of their biggest superhero movie ever to be ruined. The Wakanda Forever and Multiverse of Madness sets were also pretty vague if I remember correctly. It's easiest to leave Gamora out of sets like the Guardians HQ or the Bowie because while she might actually be in those scenes, we won't know until the movie comes out (we can assume she'll be on the Bowie at one point based on that shot of her pulling out a knife but it's not official). Since the LEGO sets and toy lines release weeks before the movies, it's again easier to exclude Gamora from these first waves of merch.

The historically bad representation of Gamora on merch already. Outside of figures like Funko Pops and Marvel Legends, it's always been nearly impossible to find officially licensed merch of just Gamora, especially cute good looking merch. This has also been an issue with most of the MCU's female heroes but it's definitely gotten better these past few years. Unfortunately due to Gamora's role in Vol 3 being pretty secretive, that positive change doesn't get to apply to her this first wave.

So basically TL;DR, don't stress about this too much. We're still 2 months out from the movie's release and a month away from promo and press starting. Yes, it sucks that so far Gamora isn't being featured in anything outside of posters and trailers, and yes it's valid to be upset and frustrated with that. But remember that there's still a whole other wave of merch to come after the movie's release, and Zoe Saldaña is still second-billed. She and Chris Pratt were the last two (humans) to wrap the movie. James Gunn wouldn't have brought Gamora back if he didn't want to. If you're still feeling uneasy or worried (which I totally get!) @enigma731 has some great posts about why Gamora will be fine.

Sorry this is so damn long, I kinda got carried away lol. But yeah I do wish there was at least like a Funko Pop or something and find it ridiculous that Kraglin of all people is getting more merch than the female lead, but I'm personally not getting too worried right now because we still have two months until the movie. It's not looking completely terrible right now. (Trust me, I was a Star Wars sequels stan during 2019 TROS press. That movie's plot was leaked via an official German Burger King ad. If it ever gets that bad for Vol 3 you will definitely hear about it from me lol).

[measuringbliss]

Spider-Man Read-Through 011: Welcome to 1970! (ASM 83-87)

MASTERPOST

The last time, we finished the sixties and entered the seventies. I don't know anything about the next three years, and then I have ample familiarity for the three years after that. Very happy to delve again in new material!

In this post, we see a new costume (but for whom?), a sidekick (but whomst?) and Spidey's biggest, most ferocious enemy.

It's a doozy!

Unfortunately, Stan Lee doesn't seem to be able to let go from the Kingpin, who's a constant hamper on my enjoyment of these arcs. Someone's out there to replace him (new super-villain called "The Schemer") but I'm sure the Kingpin will quickly see red...

However, we're once again talking about the mysterious lady driver! I still wonder who she is, I never actually got an answer.

And she's here! Vanessa! So she's definitely his wife. Huh! And she drops a bombshell that actually made my mouth gape: their son has disappeared! I didn't expect that. I'm already invested in that. Hell yeah. Vanessa's convinced Richard is dead, but I'm not so sure.

What also made me gasp was this! Flash's leaving and I'm sad, but then MJ *and* Gwen kiss him, because of course they do!

Another gasp-inducing happening is that Peter on-page questions the Vietnam War. Didn't expect that!

He's also recently been on the verge to reveal his secret to Gwen, but of course he's not gonna do it. This issue is very interesting as to how much of a reaction it is to the reader's letters: a lot of soap, the secret tease...

But Peter and Gwen get almost hit by a car and Gwen falls unconscious, because she's a girl.

For the second time in a short number of issues, Spidey jokes about a villain getting his lines from a shlocky manual. The MCU certainly didn't invent that type of quips (but seeing Spidey be so self-aware feels a bit wrong, like, come on, Stan, you don't get to be high and mighty about your usual dialogue).

The Schemer escapes Spidey's wrath after trying to use comically specific traps. But Gwen does her usual "oh, I don't know if I can love you ever again" shtick and we all frown, because "you were away when I woke up in the hospital" is certainly a reach. Meanwhile, I'm more certain than ever that her dad will guess Peter's identity.

Overall a nice issue! I always like me some soap.

In the letters, Jean Laidig sets themselves apart by suggesting giving powers not to May, but to Gwen! I hope you enjoyed Into the Spider-Verse, buddy. People also keep praising the Prowler.

At the beginning of issue 84, Spidey surmises that now, the Schemer's capture is worth 5000 dollars and is worth it... in today's money, it's a bit less than 39.000 dollars. Good grief.

Peter goes to the Stacys, but is quickly trapped between the father and the daughter, who keep asking him questions. Whoops.

The Kingpin is now also convinced that his son killed himself because he's seen news about his dad being a supervillain. Hm. That makes the Kingpin a more interesting character, but I think Richard would actually be a great character if he was still alive. I'm hoping he is.

And I actually think... he might be?

At one point in the issue, Vanessa tries to stop the Kingpin and the Schemer from fighting, but she sees something in the Schemer's eyes and next thing you know, they both disappeared. The next issue is supposed to reveal the Schemer's secret. So he does have one. Is he Richard aged up? What the hell's going on?

In the letters, Bruce Long informs everyone that Peter should be exempt from draft because his dad was in the CIA and Peter's his only child. Actually interesting!

Peter gets surprised once again by the Stacys, but they once again let themselves be fooled by his theater kid energy. And fool them, he does, by acting as if he had issues with Spider-Man. Good thinking, kid!

Turns out the reward I mentioned higher was bogus, since it was actually a trap set up by the Kingpin.

AND IT TURNS OUT I WAS (mostly) RIGHT! The Schemer *is* Richard! He just made a mask. Hell yeah. Now it makes sense, why his villain antics seemed so awkward.

Unfortunately for the Kingpin, his son's reveal shocks him so bad he becomes catatonic. Hopefully we don't see him for a few issues... although he finally got interesting! Now give me more of Richard, dammit!

It's a really good ending to the arc though.

But wait, about the next issues...

HELL YEAH.

Reminds me of this meme:

A female copy? Really? Huh. Anyway!

Natasha, kill him! Rip him in half!

What I didn't account for, however, was Natasha immediately recounting her backstory and mentioning her "hopeless" romance with Hawkeye. Uh oh, this combined with the previous meme is quite awkward. I mean, I'm laughing, but oops.

Natasha changes her costume because, in the words of one of Totally Spies's openings, "you have to be fashionable if you want to be a spy". I actually prefered her previous costume, it was quite elegant, but oh well. So Natasha considers that, since she has the same powers as Peter (no she doesn't), she has to fight him to be in the spotlight. Oof.

Her fighting style is pretty close to the Tarantula we'll see in a few years! That's nice. She also says Spidey must have been "born this way", which is proof that he's queer. Thanks for coming to my TED talk.

She gives up on page 18, and Stan helpfully informs us that Black Widow is about to get her monthly magazine. Thanks, Stanny dear, I'd never have guessed!

This issue's a nice change of pace. i'd be interested to check out BW's adventures! So Stan succeeded, I guess. If anybody has a specific arc to recommend...

Great letter, finally something new!

Predictably though, Keith Stern asks for less love and more action. Can't satisfy everyone now, can you? Joe Sykora is happy that #82 was at least 100 panels (he counted 124).

Ooooh! I mean, it can only be Captain Stacy, right?

Pete wants to analyze his blood to see if his powers are disappearing, but he can't focus - and Dr. Connors is in Florida. To make matters worse, it's also Gwen's birthday, teased multiple times throughout this arc (this is the fourth mention, by my count).

SO PETER STEALS A NECKLACE FOR HER.

At Gwen's party, I'm saddened to witness a terrible fact:

Harry's outfits have become less fun. I miss what he had before! Also, apparently Randy and his boyfriend Josh are here too! Why not.

Peter's actually lost his mind, because he crashes the party just as it was ending.

I was shook.

I think we can definitely say that Peter is being whumped, and to great effects! We love to see it.

Oh this is delightful.

MJ: Wow, Gwendy, you sure can pick 'em! He's either a masked menace or a psycho case!

We love bitchy MJ in this house.

Turns out what actually hampered Peter's wellbeing these last issues was the flu! Peter does nothing to beat the "men are weak" allegations (I can confirm, I'm a baby when I get sick, although my gender is. essentially non-existent. but let's not talk about that).

AND THEN OH MY FUCKING GOD. HE'S BACK. HE'S FUCKING BACK. MY MAN HOBIE BROWN IS BACK. I'M SO HAPPY!!!!!! I'm so glad I didn't check when and if he'd be back! Oh my God, oh my God!!!!!!!

No, you don't get it. I'm ecstatic! A TEAM-UP? I NEED THIS IN MY LIFE. HOBIE AS A SIDEKICK? Even as just a five-pages event, I love it! Oh my fucking god, YES!!!!!

This issue is fantastic and I can't understate how joyous I am of seeing Hobie again, after so many years not knowing what would happen to him! Aaah I love it.

In the letters... Well.

So relatable, Alan.

This concludes today's very enjoyable batch!

Anybody read that wrong?

[mytimetravelcollector]

Ben Affleck only regrets one movie: Daredevil. That’s what the actor once told Playboy about the 2003 superhero misstep. “It just kills me,” said Affleck. “I love that story, that character, and the fact that it got f***ed up the way it did stays with me.” Released on 14 February 2003, Daredevil was an attempt at a darker, grittier superhero film – gritty in a pre-Nolan sort of way, at least. It tells the story of blind lawyer Matt Murdock, who avenges his murdered father (that old chestnut) by cleaning up the grubby streets of Hell’s Kitchen. Blinded as a child by toxic goop, Murdock has enhanced senses as an adultre, which manifest as a kind of super-powered radar. Twenty years on from its release, Daredevil looks like a proto-franchise player – an attempt to get a Marvel movie series off the ground before filmmakers had quite figured out the formula. It leaves it an unwieldy if occasionally interesting relic.

Daredevil’s divisive reputation is neatly summed up by its most offending article: Affleck’s fanboy-riling leather suit, which was very much not the spandex version of the source material. Even Charlie Cox, who has played Daredevil since 2015 in both an eponymous Netflix series and the MCU – most recently cameoing in Spider-Man: No Way Home – once commented that “the suit sucks”. What fans didn’t know was that writer-director Mark Steven Johnson had to fight with the studio for any costume. For Johnson – a diehard Daredevil fan – production was “a non-stop battle.” The executives wanted to replicate the success of Sam Raimi’s Spider-Man – released a year earlier – but didn’t understand the Daredevil character. “They didn’t want a costume,” he later said. “They didn’t want horns. They didn’t want anything.”

Like other superhero films, Daredevil was in the works for several years before Affleck finally suited up. Marvel was in financial peril in the 1990s and hadn’t yet started to produce its own films. Film adaptations of their biggest characters stalled. Twentieth Century Fox nabbed the rights to the X-Men in 1993, though the film didn’t reach cinemas until 2000. Sony picked up Spider-Man after a years-long web of complicated rights wrangling. The eventual films, however, were super-sized hits. The Los Angeles Times wrote that “franchise fever” had seized Hollywood.

Twentieth Century Fox had optioned Daredevil in 1997, with Chris Columbus (of Home Alone and Harry Potter fame) in line to direct. When that didn’t work out, Disney flirted with buying the rights but soon dropped out of contention (amusing, considering that Disney now owns Marvel and, subsequently, the rights to Daredevil). The character went to Sony, then New Regency – with Twentieth Century Fox distributing. Johnson, who’d first been hired to write the script at Sony, had to pitch to get back onboard the project. Studio executives were unsure if he was the man for the job. Johnson had written the Grumpy Old Men movies and, at the time, had just one directing credit to his name – the quiet 1998 comedy-drama, Simon Birch.

Kuljit Mithra, who launched the popular Daredevil fansite Man Without Fear back in 1996, tells me that Johnson contacted him at the time. “He said, ‘I’ve got some stuff I want to run by you’,” says Mithra. “Back then, it wasn’t like everybody was an insider! He emailed me storyboards. He sent me all this three years before it was even greenlit. He asked me how it looked.”

Back then, Daredevil was still a niche hero, despite being created by Stan Lee and Bill Everett in 1964, Marvel’s golden age for superhero creation. “I read the comics as a kid,” says Mithra. “As I got older, I noticed that Daredevil was in his own world – he didn’t cross over with a lot of other titles. But he seemed to attract the best writers and artists. They’d always ask to try Daredevil because he was not a high-prestige character. Marvel was like: “Does somebody want to work on this character? We’ll just print it.”

In the 1980s, Daredevil got a gritty reinvention with writer Frank Miller. Mark Steven Johnson drew mostly from Miller’s stories. If anything, says Mithra, the film may follow Frank Miller’s stories – which featured many of Daredevil’s closest allies and villains – a bit too closely. “I think he tried to fit as much as he could in one movie,” says Mithra. “He basically did the whole Frank Miller arc. If he had the space and time of the Netflix show, maybe he could have made it work.”

Before Affleck was cast, the role of Matt Murdock/Daredevil was offered to Vin Diesel, Guy Pearce and Affleck’s real-life BFF Matt Damon. Not everyone loved the idea of Affleck as Daredevil – he was also in the midst of a run of poorly received films, including Pearl Harbor and Gigli – but he was a fan of the comic and a close friend and collaborator of filmmaker and comic-book devotee Kevin Smith. Smith, following films such as Clerks, Mallrats, and Chasing Amy, had even written an acclaimed run of the Daredevil comic, and cameos in the film itself.”

Surrounding Affleck was Jennifer Garner as assassin and love interest Elektra; Colin Farrell as crack shot henchman Bullseye; Michael Clarke Duncan as Wilson Fisk aka Kingpin; and Jon Favreau as Murdock’s lummox lawyer sidekick, Foggy. Favreau later directed Iron Man, the 2008 film that kicked off the Marvel Cinematic Universe and rendered films like Daredevil almost obsolete – mere footnotes in superhero

Clarke Duncan, who died in 2012, was unsure at first about playing the oversized crime lord, Kingpin. “He’s cool,” he once said. “But he’s white.” These days, the casting might cause a meltdown in the most toxic corners of online fandom, but there was no doubt that Clarke Duncan – a 6ft 5in, 300lb powerhouse – was the right man for the job. “Mark Steven Johnson wanted someone who embodied strength,” says Mithra. “All the fan casting was ‘let’s have some gigantic wrestler play the Kingpin’, but you’ve got to have someone who can act.”

Elsewhere, Farrell seems to be having a blast as Bullseye, a petulant, gobby hitman with a target carved into his forehead and who kills people by any means necessary. He’s always mid-flick, whether with knives, paper clips or peanuts. “I want a bloody costume,” Bullseye says at one point, nodding to the fact that his (admittedly daft) costume had been lost in the transition from page to screen. Indeed, these were the days when producers didn’t want to see the proper costumes on their heroes and villains. Look at the Power Ranger-like Green Goblin in Spider-Man, or the leather-clad X-Men. “What would you prefer,” Cyclops asks Wolverine in 2000’s X-Men. “Yellow spandex?” There was a hint of embarrassment about it all. For Johnson – who understood comic book fandom – Daredevil’s costume represented a significant behind-the-scenes battle.

“It was ridiculous,” he said in 2019. “They were like, ‘We’re not going to put a man in devil horns! They call him Daredevil because he does daring things, not because he dresses up like a devil’. I was like, ‘You have to! Otherwise, he’s not Daredevil’.” Eventually, Fox executives conceded on the costume, but then fought Johnson on the colour red. The studio wanted black. They eventually compromised on something in the middle, more or less the colour of blood. Johnson added: “And then some people go, ‘Bah, he’s got a leather costume, that’s bulls***, he should be in spandex. You ruined my childhood’. And I’m like, ‘Dude, you have no idea – I fought so hard just to get horns’.”

Daredevil was initially seen as a modest actioner with a budget of $50m (£41m). The character didn’t have the brand name value to warrant a mega budget. (Producer Gary Foster recalled that whenever he told people he was making a Daredevil film, they thought he meant a biopic about the stunt motorcyclist, Evel Knievel.) But when Spider-Man was released in 2002 and grossed around $800m (£667m) at the global box office, Fox boosted Daredevil’s special effects budget. “They saw what Spider-Man had done at Sony and tried to replicate it,” says Mithra. “Because they really didn’t know Daredevil well. They tried to do the same marketing and promotion – even the soundtrack.”

While Spider-Man plumped for Nickelback, Daredevil is packed with banging, turn-of-the-millennium nu metal, as well as two (!) infamous Evanescence needle drops. To say Daredevil has aged horribly is harsh, but it has aged very specifically. “It’s definitely an early 2000s film!” laughs Mithra. But there is something about Daredevil – a film that moves like Spider-Man but has the darker heart of Tim Burton’s Batman. Particularly good is the “shadow world” effect, which brings Murdock’s radar-like sense to life. The film is also shrewd enough to dump some of the rigmarole of origin stories, belonging to a generation of superhero films that hadn’t figured out how to sidestep the trappings entirely.

When Playboy asked Affleck what went wrong, he replied that it would be “impolite” to say so. Though he admitted that he bears some of the blame: “You can’t divorce yourself and say it was everybody else’s fault and not mine. I was there.”

Like so many films of that time, Daredevil is hamstrung by abysmal CGI. See the decidedly ropey punch-up between Daredevil and Bullseye. A scene in which Daredevil kills (or deliberately doesn’t save) a villain was also criticised by fans – something that no true superhero would do in the comics. “I think that’s part of what upset people,” says Mithra. “It was the big chance to showcase this character and they got it all wrong.”

In 2018, Affleck took a more serious stance. He recalled being less interested in superheroics and more interested in understanding what it felt to be blind. He enlisted the help of a blind actor to follow him on the set and help refine his performance. It would be a nice sentiment – albeit if Matt Murdock wasn’t able to somehow push through his blindness and sense when a beautiful woman is nearby, then follow her down the street even when she’s asked him to leave her alone. The following flirt-off between Murdock and Elektra in a New York playground is soul-curlingly cringeworthy.

The biggest issue, perhaps, is that among the studio politics and behind-the-scenes battles, Johnson had to cut about a quarter of the film. Producers wanted a 100-minute movie. “They cut it down,” says Mithra. “They wanted more showtimes in the theatre – they didn’t want the full version that the director wanted.” Mithra – who’d seen Johnson’s storyboards before production began proper – had a good sense of how the film changed from Johnson’s initial vision. “I could see what didn’t make it,” Mithra says. “He probably [experienced] a lot of studio interference.”

Contrary to its rep, Daredevil was not a flop. From a budget of $75m (£62m), it grossed $179m (£149m). In its opening week in the US, it dominated the box office. The New York Times said it was “passable”, but “too worshipful of the idiom’s conventions. [Johnson’s] affection for the character leaves overly sincere puddles every step of the way.” The Independent didn’t much like it, and thought that Affleck was “a man for whom the word ‘obnoxious’ was surely invented”. The Guardian’s Peter Bradshaw argued that Daredevil was “far funnier and gutsier than [2002’s] wimpish Spider-Man”.

Mithra says fan responses to the film were “an even split” between love and hate: “I don’t know anybody who just said, ‘Yeah, it was alright’.” The film didn’t do much to help Daredevil’s mainstream rep, either. “When I told people I run a Daredevil website,” says Mithra, “they’d go, ‘What, about Ben Affleck?! Why?’”

In 2004, a director’s cut of Daredevil was released on DVD, with around 30 minutes of added material: more Kingpin, less schmaltz, and a deeper understanding of Matt Murdock. A year later, a spin-off was released: Elektra, which proved to be one of the first attempts at an interconnected superhero cinematic universe. But it wasn’t confident enough to celebrate its lineage: Affleck filmed a scene, reuniting with Garner, but it was cut. Even a Daredevil spinoff didn’t want anything to do with Daredevil. “They did everything to not say it was a Daredevil sequel,” says Mithra. “They didn’t do any promotion to say it was a continuation. The trailers would always say ‘from the studio that brought you X-Men’.”

It was a curious moment for superhero cinema. After the multi-film successes of X-Men and Spider-Man, Daredevil was part of a run of Marvel standalone projects. All were attempted franchise starters, but none were especially good. “It was way before the MCU,” Johnson later said. “The Marvel characters were all over different studios, but no one quite knew what to do with them.” Also in 2003, Ang Lee directed Hulk – an oddity of early 2000s blockbusters. Then came The Punisher, starring Thomas Jane and John Travolta, followed by two Underrated Fantastic Four films, and the Nicolas Cage-starring Ghost Rider, also written and directed by Johnson. The MCU has made these films feel oddly pointless.

Affleck later said he had “inoculated” himself from playing a superhero again. “Wearing a costume was a source of humiliation for me and something I wouldn’t want to do again soon,” he said while promoting Hollywoodland, a film about the suicide of Superman actor George Reeves. A few years on, he explained that he took the role of Batman in Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice to make amends for Daredevil. He wanted to make a superhero film and “do it right”. Ahem.

Still, as an artefact from a very specific time in superhero cinema, Daredevil has its fans. As Johnson explained in 2019: “Sometimes [people] apologize, like, ‘Can I say something? I really like Daredevil’. I’m like, ‘It’s OK, I’m not going to tell anybody!’”

[thetimelordbatgirl]

Lily really be out here saying, “If you like Bucky, your racist.” when like, um...her favorite, Wanda, in the MCU....is basically one of the biggest examples of MCU racism. Like, from the start, Wanda whose Romani and Jewish in the comics, has been whitewashed in the MCU and her being Jewish erased because...for some reason no Magneto means she can’t be Jewish??? Granted given the MCU had her join HYDRA, aka Marvel’s Nazi’s, maybe its a miracle they didn’t make her related to Magneto... And this continues to extend into WandaVision, where we literally see the show depict her in a Halloween outfit based on the comic’s first superhero costume for Scarlet Witch, but the show calls it a ‘fortune teller’ costume:

And in the episodes concept art, they literally depicted the outfit as this:

Like if Lily wants to shame random fans for liking Bucky cause she defines racism as liking any white character at this point, then uh, she really should look into her own favorite in the MCU and maybe also the fans cause uh, Wanda stans have been called out in the past for racism and shit, but like, I guess Lily is looking away at that one.

Lily calling bucky and Hunter stans white suprematists when she likes scarlet witch

A character who was a Nazi, held and tortured an entire town hostage and tried to kill a child to kidnap two other kids.

But sure Hunter stans are the racists for liking a white boy lol

that without even bringing up all the other issues around scarlet witch and specifically how wandavision created new issues on top.

[destinyc1020]

You guys forget that there's a lot between "antis" and Tomdayas/nasty solo Tom and solo Z stans. Some of us have been fans of Tom since before Spider-Man, root for him as an actor, and treat his relationship like we do any other actors' relationship.

I follow people in the industry who are not Tomdayas or stans of Tom or Zendaya and even they have said they believe in Tom as an actor and want him away from the franchises. There are also people who now want Z away from Sam.

Tom is the one who let slip that he didn't want to do SM into his 20s. RDJ said the exact same thing about him. I believe Tom meant that when he said it and the cleaned it up later. Elizabeth Olsen said some things very similar in tone about her own involvement in the franchise. Look at what's happening with Brie Larson, Hemsworth, Hiddleston, Paul Rudd (who wrote stuff dunking on the MCU into this last season of Party Down), and Disney/MCU in general. It's a shitshow before you even add Sony's involvement. So, is it really a mystery why some Tom fans think it's odd that he may have signed back on for 3 more solo films plus 1-2 Avenger films?

PS: If you haven't seen the fans are here whining about needing new "content" from Tom and Z 48 hours after they were last spotted (stalked), count yourself lucky. There are definitely people who literally say they only want another SM movie because they want another press tour.

RE: Marvel...

I mean, I'll be honest, I have my own personal thoughts and feelings about the state of the MCU and some of the Marvel films that have come out during this newer phase. Mostly, the biggest thing I feel is slight over-saturation.

I'm still enjoying the films, but I almost kind of wish that Marvel would take more TIME in their releases, and work on producing a really great product, as opposed to releasing several movies per year AND on Disney+, to the point where some fans have a hard time keeping up, or fans being disappointed in the lackluster quality of the films.

I'd rather wait every 5 years for a "Dark Knight" caliber of film, as opposed to getting a new film/series every 2 months, and having lower-quality production. 👀

But that's just me. 🤷🏾‍♀️

So, is it really a mystery why some Tom fans think it's odd that he may have signed back on for 3 more solo films plus 1-2 Avenger films?

But see....here is my issue with fans.... Fans are already complaining before anything has officially been announced yet, and BEFORE we even know whether Tom will be signing on to 3 films all at once, or, will be signing on film by film (which, imo is WAY more smart).

I think fans need to chill and save their outrage for when an official announcement actually comes out. Why waste time, breath, and energy getting all riled up over something like this, when 1) it's NOT that serious, and 2) nothing has been formally announced yet? 🥴

[wakandaiscoming]

What You Need to Know about Namor and Talokan

I haven't done a comics-explainer post in awhile. Thought maybe now would be good. Except this isn't just about comics now, it's also about some real world mythology.

In the comics, Namor was one of Marvel's oldest superheroes. He was created in 1939, the same year as Superman. You may know that most of Marvel's biggest superheroes were created by Stan Lee. But Lee's best-known work happened after World War II, during the 1960s. So unlike DC, Marvel doesn't really have that many "Golden Age" superheroes.

Though some of the Marvel Golden Age characters have been retconned and reimagined in newer stories, only three really have been consistently popular since their original publication: Captain America, Namor and the Human Torch.

So Namor is important, not just because he is a powerful character in the comics, but because he was integral in Marvel's early publishing success in the real world. (Marvel, like many other comics publishers, struggled to stay in business during the 1950s because of a crackdown on comics as a "bad influence" on young people.) He's one of these three that kept the company in business.

He is, of course, also important for in-story reasons. Notably, Namor is considered Marvel's first mutant. That is, he was the first mutant character to have stories published about him by Marvel. Though he wasn't revealed to be a mutant until the 60s, he had books about him dating since the 30s, if that makes sense. (This was confusing to me as a kid because we knew there were older mutants inside the comic book continuity, nor the first to utter the word "mutant" but the first mutant superhero in our real-world chronology, if that makes sense.) I mention this because it will probably come up that he is the "first mutant" in press, as the world is dying for the X-Men to be introduced into the MCU.

It would make perfect sense if Namor is included in "The Mutants" or other mutant-related MCU projects. He is known to be part of the X-Men team in the crossover event "A v X", when the X-Men fought the Avengers. (I'm not going to get into the specifics there regarding the Phoenix force, but just known he was Team X.)

Inside the books, Namor is both Human/Mutant and Atlantean. Atlantis is the fictional world under the sea. In comics, his father is a human (with a mutant gene) and his mother is a princess of Atlantis. Thus he has both the powers of Atlanteans and human mutants. Because one set of superpowers isn't enough!

It seems, from the trailer, that in the film Namor will still be half-human but rather that his mother was human and his father was from Talokan.

In Mexica/Aztec traditions, Tlālōcān is a paradise ruled by the rain god Tlaloc. The name "Atlantis" has been removed for the film, as "Wakanda Forever" is trying to root this fictional world in Mesoamerican traditions, not Greek ones. As a mythology nerd, I will point out that Tlaloc is the name the Aztecs/Mexica used for the rain god but the Mayans used the name Chaac. There seems to be some picking and choosing with names because "K'uk'ulkan" is referenced in the trailer and that is the Mayan name for the god the Aztecs would have called Quetzalcoatl, which is the opposite choice.

In any case, it is not "Atlantis" in the film and it is also Talokan with a k not a c, which seems to give some distinction between the mythical place and underwater kingdom of the film.

The war cry used by the kingdom in the film translates to "Talokan rises" and is their version of "Wakanda forever".

But back to Namor himself. What are his powers? We don't really know exactly what he can do in the film, but in the comics, he's super strong and durable--something he gets from the non-human side of his family. He's over 100 years old but still looks good in tiny swim shorts. (Edit update: Tenoch Huerta said in a press conference that the film version of Namor is over 500 years old. This lines up with the speculation that the old timey scenes we see in the trailer are of the Spanish conquest of "the New World." So we may see his people forced into the sea to survive.)

His mutant abilities are related to the wings on his ankles, that give him the ability to fly. They also seem to have amplified his non-human powers, making him stronger and more durable than the regular undersea dwellers in the comics.

In the trailers, we see him easily deflecting attacks, suggesting he is as durable as the comics (where he can just stand there while people shoot at him with guns). He can also fly via the wings on his feet. Most notably, we see him using an ability to control water.

In the comics, Namor stole his hydrokinetic powers from the Spider-man villain Hydro-man. But it makes more sense to simply give him these in the film, as possibly mutant abilities. It is more impressive than feet wings (though those are adorable).

Namor is often an antagonist but also often a hero. This comes from his differing perspective from land-dwelling humans. Like, he did come out of the water to fight Hitler, for example. And he will help with alien attacks that might destroy the entire planet, but he is often at odds with humanity itself. (And to be fair, we do pollute his ocean and kill his people so maybe we deserve it.)

Namor and T'Challa are rivals in the comics, though they are also both teammates on the Illuminati at times (yes, those guys that Wanda killed in Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness.) And, it should be noted, he has a particularly history with the Fantastic Four as well. It was the Human Torch (Johnny Storm, the second hero to carry this moniker) who helped him regain his memories and restore his powers in the 1960s. He is also often portrayed as in love with Sue Storm/The Invisible Woman, putting him at odds with Reed Richards, her husband.

Many hope that Namor in "Wakanda Forever" will help set up both the X-Men and the Fantastic Four in the MCU.

"Namor" is pronounced "Nay-mor" in the comics. In the film it will be pronounced that way and also "Nah-mor" (meaning "no amor" or no love), an intentional commentary about the way Latinx people often have their names mispronounced by the masses.

[love-strawberry]

3am talks cause i love you

summary : in which she's an amazing mcu actress and he's her biggest fan ever.

pairing : sebastian stan x reader

warnings : language

author's note : okayyy so a vERY HUGE THANKS TO @ateliefloresdaprimavera for giving me SO many ideas to form all this on, i love you angel <3 and evanora is y/n's character in the mcu and she's bucky's love interest and she dies in black widow okay? okay. and yeah, you'll find pieces of plot in the comments thank youuuuu

tagged : @mrsben-barnes @ateliefloresdaprimavera @0oolookitsme @slut4benbarnes @ellora-brekker

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navigation

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liked by imsebastianstan, tchalamet, taylorswift and 4,724,917 others

y/n_ 1 week left till black widow is out everywhere!! this is so exciting!! i can't wait for you all to see this <33

tagged marvel florencepugh scarjo

94,528 comments

username OMGOMGOMGOMGOMG

username IM HYPERVENTILATING

username can't wait for y/n, scarlet and florence to kick ass on screen

tchalamet i better be getting free tickets

zendaya that's my wifey 🛐

florencepugh i say that's my beautiful baby and im so proud of her <3

username omg the trailer was so fucking good, like the fighting sequences? the acting? and y/n's iconic dialogues with yelena?? amazing!!

imsebastianstan YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES

-> y/n_ wow ok, calm down before you pull something

username i sleep soundly at night knowing sebastian is one of us and he'd definitely sneak is bts content

username sebastian being her hypeman

username omg we're finally gonna see the widow sisters on the screen

username im not prepared for the amount of sadness im gonna feel after watching it cause endgame exists

scarjo love you bbg <3

username no thoughts just scarlet, florence and y/n being besties

username black widow deserved a trilogy

username marvel imma come for you if you hurt my babies

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liked by y/n_, scarjo, florencepugh and 4,825,529 others

imsebastianstan after watching the movie, the only i can say is you're not ready for it. y/n_ i have watched you go through this movie with determination and passion with a bit of fangirl-ness for scarlet but i couldn't be more proud of you. it doesn't matter to me that you called me up at 3am just to talk about evanora and bucky's relationship because i loved those talks. and i love you <3

102,628 comments

username im crying

username this is all very sweet but should i scared of watching the movie?

username WTF WTF WTF WTF I WATCHED IT AND WHAT? HUH? HOW?

username IM SOBBING EVANORA-

y/n_ i was already crying and now you made me cry some more :( but i love you and i am so thankful that it was you who endured my 3am rants

-> imsebastianstan and i'd do it a thousand times again <3

username the biggest plot twist was bucky in the 2 end credits scene

username "it's okay, yelena, really. you'll have that big apartment right in the middle of new york city and you'll live your best life. i'd be around to make sure of it" my heart </3

username they killed evanora off and for what? to make natasha suffer more? to make yelena blame make herself for not reaching her in time? to make bucky keep repeating the last words she said to him? what the actual fuck marvel

florencepugh you're too cute, makes me sick to my stomach but in a good way

chrisevans wow, someone PLEASE find me a lover

username both natasha and evanora had yelena on their mind before dying and that fact will keep me up at night

scarjo sweet caption. now come and pick us up please

username but y/n's acting was sooo good in this?? and florence and scarlet had ASTOUNDING chemistry with her like this movie is a masterpiece

username this movie broke me

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liked by zendaya, tomholland2013, scarjo and 4,925,196 others

y/n_ after more than a year of filming, we're finally here!! i can't believe that this is over, i had so so so much fun filming black widow. filming with scarlet and florence who are not only my sisters onscreen, they're my sisters irl too. i loved every second of it and i hope you do too!! thank you soooo much for giving this movie this much love!! i love you and thank you <3

tagged scarjo florencepugh marvel

104,915 comments

username I LOVE THEIR DYNAMIC YOUR HONOUR

username when natasha said "it looked like you looked up to me but actually i was looking up to you, you're my everything, you and yelena" my soul left my body no kidding

username i thought yelena visiting natasha's grave was sad enough but marvel said fuck you and slapped me with yelena visiting evanora's grave and yelena telling bucky the news

imsebastianstan so so so so proud of you and how far you've come!! you deserve all this and more

-> y/n_ i couldn't thank you enough for supporting me, i love you!! thank you for celebrating my highs and supporting me during my lows <3

username the whISTLE-

username how can i sleep at night knowing that yelena and evanora won't live together in their apartment in nyc? that bucky and evanora won't get that 'picture perfect ending that we deserve with sam' anymore? that natasha died knowing that it should have been her instead of her sister? that peter won't EVER get to tell nora about mj? huh?

florencepugh you're my muse, and i admire you so much!! keeping shining like this baby, your deserve it. i love you ❣️

scarjo i love you SOOO much darling!! filming this movie with you has been an absolute pleasure!! 🤍🤍

username bucky's small but heartbreaking "she told me that she'd be seeing me soon"

username "i thought it was just a small mission. i-i-i don't get it, i thought- what? how?"

username bucky :(

username when you realise that evanora getting yelena that apartment in nyc was her way of saying goodbye because she had a feeling that she wouldn't make it so she wanted to make sure that yelena and natasha would be okay

anthonymackie i. am. heartbroken.

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liked by y/n_, chrisevans, tomholland2013 and 4,173,658 others

imsebastianstan meet bucky yarns, mine and y/n's son <3

tagged y/n_

99,528 comments

username omg

username that cat is the definition of perfect

username i want

chrisevans wow, betraying dodger

username his eyes are so beautiful

y/n_ give me back my son

-> imsebastianstan you've had him since morning

-> y/n_ and? your point being?

username now i wanna adopt a pet

florencepugh coming over asap

-> scarjo ditto

username bucky has my heart

username i have only had bucky yarns for 1 hour 19 minutes but if anything happened to him, i would kill everyone in this room and myself

username AWWWW

username i bet he loves y/n more

username 🤍🤍🤍

username the icon

username the legend

username the moment

zendaya wow you two are dorks but mY GODSON IS SO CUTE AWW

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liked by robertdowneyjr, chrisevans, scarjo and 4,925,528 others

y/n_ no thoughts just my boyfriend being beautiful and ethereal and pretty and handsome and sexy and hot and cute and adorable and every other adjective

tagged imsebastianstan

username awww y/n's nana fixing his bowtie

username i want him to look at me like THAT™

username 🛐

imsebastianstan stop im blushing

-> y/n_ that was literally the point??

username i want this relationship so so so so so so fucking badddd

username y can't i have this? huh? why?

tchalamet 💦 sexy seabass

username anthony is rubbing off timothee you can Tell

username i don't have to know, i just Know that he's looking at y/n like that

username imagine him at their wedding omg

florencepugh post more photos of yourself. pls. i hate looking at this dingbat

-> imsebastianstan wow- fuck you

username drooling

username y/n won at life

username their relationship>>>

chrisevans sebastian, make that look more holy

username chris oml-

username 🤰

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[valkyrieandstrangeridingaragorn]

I agree with this to an extent, but I can't ignore that one of the main reasons the Stark fandom behaves like that is that at some point during AoU, the MCU decided that anything and everything Stark did would be framed as right and good and no one would be able to call him out.

I said many times that my biggest issue with him is the framing. He's a flawed, morally grey character who is full of shit sometimes and other times he can be selfless. That's interesting! That's a good ground for great storytelling and characterization. I would say we got to see that much in the IM movies, but after AoU he has narrative protection about every single goddamn thing he does and says. So is it really a surprise that his stans will defend him at all times? It's what the MCU did!

As an addendum, here’s a comment from a totally different fic that sums up the problem with stanning Tony (or any character really):

I think it would be very hypocritical of me as a Wanda fan to not see the good in Tony Stark. Despite everything, he did have some redeeming qualities.

[rueluxprince]

Different taboo topics between English and Chinese fandoms

Because of course there is, different cultural context, different things people find abhorrent, and so one must take extra care not to go all “if you don’t also find the things I find disgusting, then you are being disgusting” when one is entering into a fandom that was not of your culture. *nudge* *nudge*

Case in point: Chinese fandom, does not really care if you ship incest, or underage. They really don’t give a shit. Yeah the shippers wouldn’t do it in real life, but if someone does an incest side-pairing in a fantasy webnovel the readers wouldn’t bat an eye. Like, Thor/Loki is still one of the biggest ships in Chinese pop culture today, while Thor is Patron God of Lesbians in the West with no prominent ship of his own. MCU!Peter Parker/Tony Stark is also pretty huge there, while in the West those two are kept strictly familial. And that’s not counting the literal thousands of Chinese webnovels with the specific trope of “old and wise master raises poor but cute disciple, disciple grows to want to top his master.”

Even when Jin Guangyao’s various crimes were revealed, the fact he accidentally married his biological half-sister had the smallest splash. His stans didn’t really care and proceeded to make a lot “Qin Su: I am his First and Proper Wife until my death! And you! Lan Xichen! Will forver remain his side piece!” crack fanfics. His antis mostly focused on his murders. No one really dragged him for that? It won him a lot of pity points actually? Whereas here there were a lot of Horrifed Gasping when that plot was revealed.

(Sidenote: incest ships depends also depends on the chemistry of the characters, like you would with any other ship. Jiang Cheng/Wei Wuxian is decently big in China, in the West not so much. But no one anywhere really pairs Jiang Yanli and Wei Wuxian together, or her and Jiang Cheng. The latter two ships is way too familial and filial to even be conceivably turned romantic.)

On the other hand, Chinese fandom does not take to polyamory or polygamy or even “I had previous relationships before I entered this one where the plot things started happening.” They do not like it. The ship must be exclusive and monogamous. One of them can have some previous relationships but the audience will hold that as a black mark against their soul forever onwards. Seriously. To the point where a character who had several previous romances is often used as a narrative shorthand to show how horrible a person they are.

Again: platonic 3zun, decently popular in China. Romantic polyamorous 3zun, does not exist, a blasphemy to even suggest it. You are either a Nieyao or a Xiyao or a Nielan. You are either Stony or Stucky or WinterIron, you pick a lane and you stick to it. No Chinese fan will ever suggest “just do a threesome.” Absolutely not. Inconceivable. They will send you puking emojis and “I’ll book a psychologist appointment for you” gifsets.

(Sidenote: legit. I watched this C-Drama called Love is Sweet in October and the love triangle follows this phenomenon almost exactly. There were solid foundations for the main girl to go with either the male lead or the second male lead or for the two men to come together. Good basis for a poly ship right? Well. I’ve found exactly one fanfiction that had those three be in a poly romance, and it’s on Ao3 and in English. Everywhere in Chinese? Three different monogamous ships producing their own fan edits and fanfictions, ignoring the other two completely. Seeing this unfold in real life is extremely trippy tbh.)

And I honestly have no idea how to dissect this. The closest explanation (read: bullshiting) I have is that fanworks and fandom activities and shipping are largely driven by women, and whom, unconsciously or otherwise, chose to back away from the deeply ingrained cultural harm their fandom taboos has historically wrought upon them.

Historically, in the West, it was socially acceptable or even encouraged for close cousins to marry (hello Hapsburg family, honestly all the European nobility. Also Darwin, he did that too). While in Ancient China it was never socially or even legally acceptable (you can’t marry your cousin if they are related to you in three generations. So if you share the same great-grandparent, no can do. And they would know. One does not mess with Ancient Chinese record keeping.)

Whereas in the West, Europe and North America, monogamy was largely the norm for marriage. The nuclear family is the staple. Husband and wife and not legally recognized mistress on the side if the husband is a bit of an asshole. In China, polygamy was the norm. Men could have as many concubines as they could afford, Qianlong Emperor had close to forty. There are also inheritance laws and ceremonial regulations and all manner of legal rules giving them legal status. And the wife would have to tough it out and bear it and be nice to them, or else they are labeled as “jealous” and “not a good wife” and that is enough grounds for a divorce.

And as the modern fandom is often a place where anti-culture scenarios and relationships are imagined and interrogated, it can be argued that fandoms from different cultures have different taboos because they grew as backlash to different historically oppressive cultural practices.

[musclesandhammering]

Every Single Issue I Have With S*lki (It’s Not Just The Selfcest)

Here goes. I threatened to post this a few days ago and never did, but I just saw a s*lki stan Twitter account claim that Loki caring about Sylvie more than the whole multiverse was a Good And Romantic thing and it pushed me over the fucking edge, so now you all have to read this. I’ve divided it into categories cause there’s just THAT much.

OOC Bullshit

• First and foremost, no amount of mental gymnastics you do will ever make me believe that this specific Loki- the one that just invaded New York, that just came off a year of Thanos Torture, that just got done being influenced by the sceptre, that was literally in the middle of a crisis already, and then on top of that went through all the trauma of Ep 1- would even be worried about a romantic relationship. That would be the furthest thing from his mind. Go back and watch how he acted in Avengers- you think that guy would abandon his previous mission to become a snivelling simp for a girl he’d just met 3 days prior? Yeah, there’s no universe in which that makes sense.

• “It’s very in character for Loki to fall in love with himself lololol-“ NO, it’s literally not. Out of all the characters in the mcu, I don’t think I can think of anyone that genuinely hates themselves more than Loki. He even referred to all his other male variants as “monsters” and said meeting them was “a nightmare” in this series. He’s got so much self-loathing, plus the fact that he genuinely thinks himself to be an evil backstabbing scourge- so there’s no evidence at all suggesting that he would ever develop a fondness for, or even be inclined to trust, another version of himself, after only knowing them for 3 days.

• Building on that, the whole concept of Loki falling in love with a version of himself just feeds into the annoying ass misconception that he’s a narcissist. No matter which way you stack it, he’s not. If you’re referring to NPD, he doesn’t fit the criteria, and if you’re saying “narcissist” just as a slang term meaning “selfish and arrogant”, that still doesn’t accurately describe him. But when creators like Waldron and Herron do things like having him fall in love with himself, it makes it so much easier for casual viewers to think that he is.

Shitty LGBT Rep

• It’s kinda sus that Loki’s are allegedly genderfluid and yet the only female-presenting variant we see (and apparently the only female-presenting variant there is, cause the male Loki’s all seemed unfamiliar with the concept) is treated as some kind of mind-bogglingly special paradox. Also very sus that, out of all the Loki variants, the one our Loki falls in love with just so happens to be the only female one. What a coincidence.

• The fact that the creators of the show went around bragging about Loki’s bisexuality and Marvel purposefully (lbr) allowed stories about Loki possibly having a male love interest to circulate, specifically enticing queer viewers to watch the show (you know, the definition of queerbaiting), and then instead of having a male love interest (Loki was the first queer main character, so it was the perfect opportunity) they gave us *gestures to this dumpster fire* this… it’s just a middle finger to LGBT fans. The fact that they would rather have this relationship with all its myriad of problems than have a gay relationship is just……. Very telling.

• While him being with a woman obviously doesn’t refute his bisexuality, the fact that they showed/talked about him being interested in 3 different women (flight attendant, Sylvie, Sif) and never even hinted at him being attracted to a man, definitely makes it seem like they were trying to cover up his bisexuality to smooth things over with the more homophobic viewers. You know? It’s like “I know you’re pissed that we sorta confirmed Loki as bi, so we promise we’ll never mention it again! Or even hint at it! As a matter of fact, we’ll give him lots of female lovies and make him seem as straight as possible! That’ll take your mind off of that horrible crumb of queer rep, right? Please please please keep giving us your money!!!”

• Aside from all the other issues, at its core, the biggest reason why I think I’m so irritated with s*lki is that it took one of the most interesting, complex, and diverse characters in cinema atm and squished him into a tired ass unnecessary heteronormative subplot…. Like literally every. single. other. protagonist. ever. Loki is such a unique character, and it’s so so so incredibly disappointing that they stuck him into that same boring cookie cutter romance that happens to every other character in every other movie I’ve ever seen. It’s a disservice, and it’s honestly just not compelling or entertaining at all.

Thematic Issues Galore

• His arc didn’t need a romance. With anyone. It was unnecessary and it didn’t make sense plot-wise. In fact, one of the reasons he was my fav prior to this was because he was the only big-name mcu character whose story wasn’t muddied-up by a romance that didn’t need to be there. So much for that.

• He wasn’t emotionally ready for a romantic relationship with anyone. Hell, just a genuine friendship would’ve been pushing it for him at this point. He was in such a bad state that any relationship he got into would’ve been toxic and unhealthy for both him and the other person, and it doesn’t make sense why the writers would want to put him in one when there were so many cons and essentially no pros (other than “Uwu aren’t they cute together”).

• Sylvie’s character in general was unnecessary and Loki’s character was robbed just by her being there. The whole show became about her post-Ep 2. They spent most of the time giving her backstory, building her up, telling us how awesome she is, trying to convince us to like her, etc when what they really needed to be doing was building Loki up- cause I gotta say, if I had to describe TVA!Loki in a few words, they would be Flat, Boring, and Weak.

• The romance overtakes the plot. They spend time portraying their supposed connection that could’ve been spent adding depth and complexity to literally any of the characters. They make the big Nexus Event them giving each other googly eyes on Lamentis when it could’ve been so many other way more profound things that speak to the fundamental nature of Loki’s. They have the climax of the finale be “oh no she betrayed him to kill He Who Remains” when it could’ve been something way more compelling (Loki having a moral crisis over whether or not to kill HWR, Loki contemplating the state of the multiverse and weighing the pros and cons of freedom vs order, Loki looking into some What If situations and getting emotional about what could’ve been regarding his family, Loki realising the gravity of HWR’s offer and finally coming to terms with how important he is to the universal cycle, etc etc). The entire plot suffered in favour of a romance that half of us didn’t even want.

• It essentially reduced all of Loki’s potential character growth down to “He did it for his crush.” He seemed to at least have some motivations of his own in Ep 1-2 (feeble as they were) but after Sylvie showed up in Ep 3, literally every action he took was just him being a simp for her. Why did he lie in the interrogation? To try to protect Sylvie. Why did he fight the minutemen and Timekeepers? To survive kinda, but mostly cause it was important to Sylvie. Why did he get pruned? Cause he got distracted trying to confess his crush to Sylvie. Why did he try to get out of The Void? Cause he thought Sylvie needed him. Why did he stay in The Void? Cause Sylvie was staying. Why did he try to enchant Alioth? Cause Sylvie told him to. Why did the multiverse get cracked open, leading to an infinite number of Kangs waging war on all of existence? Cause Loki didn’t wanna hurt Sylvie in their fight at the Citadel and then get distracted by her kissing him. It’s uninteresting and honestly pretty embarrassing.

• Throughout their “relationship arc” the writers do their absolute damndest to convince us that we should like Sylvie more than Loki. And you know what? It’s the most hypocritical shit I’ve ever seen. They preach and preach about how Sylvie’s life has been so difficult/we should feel bad for her/she had it so bad/poor poor sylvie/she had it SO much worse than pampered prince Loki…. But then they never even touch on any of Loki’s trauma of hardships (the ones that have been ignored for literally 3 movies now). They frame Sylvie as a good person and a Freedom Fighter after she spent literal decades/centuries mass-murdering brainwashed TVA agents and showing exactly zero remorse for it….. but then they make it their mission to constantly remind us that Loki is a terrible person and constantly put him in situations where he’s forced to acknowledge his wrongdoings/show remorse/admit to how “evil” he is for being a mass murderer for like 2 years. They show him on-screen having a wider range of powers than her, and perpetuate his whole shtick of being a “master manipulator” or whatever….. But then they make Sylvie “the brawn” more competent, intelligent, and physically capable than him. Tell me how it’s a good thing for a ship to be so narratively biased toward one character.

Missed Opportunities

• If they absolutely had to have a romance subplot, then they could’ve paired Loki with one of the characters that have already been established OR one of the characters that were a big part of the whole TVA storyline anyway. It would’ve been so interesting if they’d revealed that Loki had a history with some of the players from previous films (Sif and Fandral both come to mind). It also would’ve been really interesting if they’d given Loki a love interest that actually had some allegiance to the TVA as a whole (Mobius maybe, but not necessarily. It also could’ve been Renslayer or B-15). Hell, imo it would’ve been cool if they’d followed through with that “See you again someday” line that he said to the flight attendant in Ep 1. ALL of these characters have way more chemistry with him than Sylvie, and they were also already relevant to the plot without wasting half the show to give background info on them.

• If they absolutely had to have a hetero-presenting love story involving an enchantress-type figure, then there’s a whole Enchantress (Amora) that was actually Loki’s love interest in the comics. Plus, fans have been screaming for Amora to appear in the mcu for years. Plus, Tom literally pitched an Amora/Loki storyline way back in 2012-13. Also, Lorelei (another enchantress) is also one of Loki’s love interests in the comics, and she already exists in the mcu (she was on Agents of SHIELD). There were several different established characters for them to choose from. Creating a whole knew amalgamation of a character and going with the “she’s a Loki variant” storyline was just completely unnecessary and made no sense.

• They completely robbed us of a Chaos Twins dynamic. Had they handled Sylvie better and not forced her and Loki to smooch, the two of them could’ve had a really really complex and interesting sibling relationship. Loki could’ve stepped into Thor’s shoes and sort of used that new role to gain some self importance, and Sylvie could’ve finally had somebody to look out for her/teach her magic/be there for her. It would’ve been very aesthetically pleasing, the vibes would’ve been out of this world, it would’ve been way more profound than this bs, and frankly it would’ve been much more entertaining to watch.

• Loki’s relationship (read: obsession) with Sylvie completely overshadows all Loki’s other relationships in the show. Loki and Mobius were literally the focal point of the series in Ep 1-2, but after Sylvie showed up in Ep 3, they barely had any interactions with each other, and Mobius pretty much faded to the background entirely. Loki had the beginnings of a pretty interesting antagonistic relationship with Renslayer (with her wanting him pruned, then arguing with Mobius that he couldn’t be trusted), but after Sylvie showed up the dynamic shifted to focus on the history between her and Ravonna. Loki and B-15 started off very badly and openly disliked each other throughout Ep 1-2, and then in the end of Ep 2, Loki showed a little bit of concern for her when she was possessed, hinting that they might be inching toward a reconciliation- especially considering how obvious it was that Loki was gonna uncover the TVA’s sins eventually. There was so much potential for him to be the one to give her her memories back and convince her to change sides, but no, of course that honor went to Sylvie. In fact, after Sylvie showed up, Loki and B-15 never even spoke to each other again.

Various S*lki Fails

• If they were trying to convince us that this affection was mutual, they completely failed. There’s nothing I’ve seen that even hints at Sylvie feeling the same way about Loki that he does about her. At most, I’d say she has a slight endearment to him. She finds him likeable and she’s grudgingly fond of him, but she definitely isn’t in love with the guy. Maybe she thinks he’s cute and hopes that he gets out of this mess alright, but her mission obviously comes before him- whereas, it’s been confirmed multiple times that Loki cares about her above anything else. She doesn’t trust him, she looks at him like he’s an incompetent fool half the time, she shows little to no reaction during most of his confession moments, and she kissed him as a means to distract him so that she could get him out of her way. Look, all I’m saying is, when you get into a relationship where one of you is way more invested than the other, it never ends well.

• This goes without saying for a lot of us, but the selfcest is just straight up odd and cringey. If you’re cool with that sort of thing, fine! People can ship what they want! But don’t pretend it’s not at least a little bit uncomfortable. Yes, I know they’re not technically siblings so it’s not technically incest, and they’re also not technically the exact same person, but they’re similar enough that it makes things weird. And yes I know selfcest can’t happen in real life, so there’s no way to judge it morally, but neither can most of the other stuff that happens in these shows/movies (the Snap, Loki destroying jotunheim, superhero with powers being held accountable, mind control) and yet we still find ways to judge their morality, because they all mirror real-world events. (The snap= genocide; Loki destroying Jotunheim= bombing other countries; superhero accountability= weapons accountability; mind control= grooming and coercion). And lbr the closest real-world mirror to two versions of the same person (who may or may not share DNA, family, backgrounds, physical and emotion characteristics) being romantically involved with one another is incest. And you can be ok with that if you want- that’s your prerogative- but don’t get pissy just cause a lot of us are squicked out by it.

• The whole mirror metaphor (learning self love via each other) thing just fell completely flat. First of all, having Loki learn to love himself by looking at someone who mirrors him did not, in any way shape or form, require them to be romantically involved. But they were. Of course. Secondly, the creators have contradicted themselves so many times on whether Loki and Sylvie are the same or not, that it doesn’t even really register to the viewer that the mirroring thing was what they were going for. Finally, Loki and Sylvie are shown to have so little in common- and to have only the most bare minimum of similarities personality-wise- that it doesn’t even make sense that Loki would “learn to love himself through loving her”. Like? They’re nothing alike. So how would he make the connection that he himself is actually pretty cool, based on her alone? There’s virtually nothing in her that reflects him.

• I know the objective of the entire show was to convince us of how awesome and unique Sylvie is, but honestly her relationship with Loki just did the opposite. A hallmark of a Mary Sue is having her constantly upstage the male lead, and then having him instantly fall madly in love with her anyway. And that’s.. exactly what happened here. Everything they’re doing to try to force her character to be more stan-able is really just forcing her to look more like their self-insert OC. Which is exactly what she is. It would’ve been so much more satisfying if she didn’t have to try so hard to look cool, if they didn’t have to try so hard to make her backstory tear-inducing, if they didn’t have to turn our protagonist into a snivelling simp just to prove how incredible she supposedly is. Very much #GirlBoss energy and we all know how performative and cheap that is.

• The entire thing was too rushed, there was too little build-up, and it was nowhere near believable. As stated above, it’s ridiculously unlikely that Loki would canonically even be interested in Sylvie, and this show did nothing to explain why he was. He just suddenly was. There was nothing they showed us as viewers that would justify a guy as closed-off and preoccupied as Loki falling head-over-heels for a girl he just met. Their was no explanation, no big revelation, no reasoning, it just… kinda happened. And I’m also severely skeptical of any love story that has the characters go in this deep after only 3 45-minute episodes of exposition.

I’m sure there’s other stuff, so if anyone thinks of anything, let me know and I’ll be more than happy to add it. Tagging @janetsnakehole02 @raifenlf @natures-marvel and @brightredsunset800 for expressing interest. This is all your faults.