#Kundry

[mysterious-secret-garden]

Henri Fantin-Latour - Evocation of Kundry (2nd plate).

[dispactke]

Parsifal, the wounded Amfortas, and Kundry.

From Willy Pogány's illustrations from Richard Wagner's Parsifal, or the Legend of the Holy Grail (1912).

[aliceliawitch]

Kundry - schön wie Venus (Parsifal & Kundry - "Im Zaubergarten") Carl von Marr (1858-1936) Oil on canvas - 1911.

[callassiani24]

MARÍA CALLAS as Kundry in Parsifal under the batton of M. TULLIO SERAFIN, sung in Italian, Feb 26th, 1949.

[va-lentine]

[mapecl-stories]

Titel: Marcus - Die Suche nach dem Gral

INT. HÜTTE IM ABGESCHIEDENEN WALD - TAG

Eine abgelegene Hütte im Wald, in der der junge Marcus aufwächst. Seine Mutter, Herzeleide, unterrichtet ihn in einfachen Dingen und hält ihn von der Außenwelt fern.

HERZELEIDE (zärtlich) Du bist etwas Besonderes, Marcus. Aber du musst hier bleiben und vor den Gefahren der Ritterwelt geschützt werden.

MARCUS (verwirrt) Aber warum, Mutter? Ich möchte die Welt sehen und ein tapferer Ritter sein!

INT. WALDRAND - TAG

Marcus beobachtet eine Gruppe stolzer Ritter, die durch den Wald ziehen. Ihre Rüstungen glänzen im Sonnenlicht. Fasziniert von ihrer Erscheinung beschließt Marcus, ihnen zu folgen.

INT. RITTERBURG - TAG

Marcus wird von den Rittern in die ritterlichen Künste eingeweiht. Er lernt zu kämpfen, zu reiten und ein wahrer Ritter zu sein.

INT. MONTSAKVAT - GRALSKÖNIGREICH - TAG

Marcus hört von einer mystischen Gemeinschaft, die den Heiligen Gral beschützt. Fasziniert von der Idee, Macht und Unsterblichkeit zu erlangen, begibt er sich zum Gralskönigreich, auch Montsakvat genannt.

INT. KLINGSORS ZAUBERGARTEN - TAG

Marcus gerät in den Zaubergarten, den Klingsor errichtet hat. Er wird von Kundry, einer verführerischen jungen Frau, in Versuchung geführt. Unwissend von ihrer Vergangenheit, küsst Marcus sie.

INT. MONTSAKVAT - GRALSBURG - TAG

Marcus erfährt von Kundrys Vergangenheit als Verursacherin der Wunde des Gralskönigs Amfortas. Er erkennt seine Schuld und beschließt, den Gral zu suchen, um Amfortas' Leiden zu heilen.

INT. KLINGSORS ZAUBERGARTEN - NACHT

Marcus kehrt zurück, um Kundry und den Zaubergarten zu besiegen. Er widersteht den Verführungen und setzt seinen Weg fort.

INT. MONTSAKVAT - GRALSBURG - TAG

Marcus trifft auf den leidenden Amfortas. Er enthüllt den Gral und heilt Amfortas' Wunde durch bedingungslose Liebe und Reue.

INT. FESTSPIELHAUS - AUFFÜHRUNG - TAG

Die Oper "Marcus" wird in einem speziellen Festspielhaus aufgeführt. Die Zuschauer sind tief bewegt von der Geschichte der Liebe, Sühne und spirituellen Transformation.

BACKSTAGE - TAG

Der Komponist, der "Marcus" geschrieben hat, fühlt eine tiefe Befriedigung, da sein Werk das Publikum berührt und die Themen von Menschlichkeit und Erlösung vermittelt.

ENDE

[lanuevaeradeacuario]

The Specter of Kundry

In the second act of this Wagnerian drama, a horrible dungeon and the inner keep of an old tower almost in ruins appears with sinister clarity. A gallery of bare stone, steps inevitably leads up to the battlements of the Dantesque wall. Darkness dreadfully reigns down below in the mysterious background of that black den, which is always accessed by descending from the dreadful abutment of the…

[maddiviner]

I was a Thelemite (follower of Crowley's spiritual philosophy) from roughly late 2011 until (gradually) several years later. I wrote a few posts in my #thelema tag here about my bizarre experiences in the Thelemic community online (read: Crowley fandom).

I spent way too much time online in my early twenties. Did a lot of mental gymnastics to justify it to myself, too, both spiritually and in other ways.

And I always went to the worst possible sites, too. Bet nobody can guess which site got me introduced to Crowley. Three guesses, first two don't count, LMAO.

The #thelema tag's also got some older (quite a few, mostly reblogged, IIRC) pro-Thelema posts, still, that I ought to sweep up. This site's getting unwieldy.

Also, there's this tag focused on my experiences with Crowley's Kundry (tempting siren) concept.

I was accused of being one during my time in Crowley's A∴A∴, apparently. It caused some... issues, as you might expect. You'd be surprised how much misogyny a concept like that can contain.

Please realize that when I'm saying a lot of this, I mostly mean the online Crowley fandom, which is absolutely a thing.

The Thelemites I knew offline back in the day weren't like that at all. They were always kind and welcoming, even when I probably didn't deserve it.

It's not as if I was some kinda wide-eyed lamb wandering amidst a bunch of vicious Thelemic wolves. I'd lost a lot of perspective by 2013, and looking back, I was a huge jerk, too. Birds of a feather.

Around 2018, I tried to apologize (when safe) to those I probably hurt back then. Who knows how that goes. You never can really say the effects you've had.

A lot (like almost all?) of my really old articles on this blog still spell magic with a K. That's not exactly because I was in Thelema (though that was a factor).

In the 1990s and early 2000s when I started out, we just all spelled it that way and parroted that stupid line about it "distinguishing it from illusion." After a while, the internet got involved. People started using the K to distinguish it from video game and D&D stuff when searching.

There's plenty of other ways (and tags, for that matter) that'll do that, though. No need for the K, no need for little Aleister. I think I'll be editing some of those articles over the next few months if I can.

hii, i was wondering if you had a post explaining why spelling magic with a k on the end wasn’t okay? or maybe a link to another post explaining it? maybe i’m overlooking it but i’m not sure.

It's less a matter of "okay" and more a matter of its direct association with Aleister Crowley and him being a white supremacist douchebag.

Here is one post on why Crowley was a dumpster fire in a train wreck.

There are other posts on Crowley being a flaming pile of garbage that I can't find right now. Mutuals if you have easy access to them please feel free to post.

[hanzajesthanza]

poking around editions of fantastyka magazine saved and uploaded to the internet archive for some stuff i'm looking into, and found the '83 edition in which sapkowski's translation of the cyril m. kornbluth story "words of guru" featured :D

[classicalcanvas]

Title: Kundry

Artist: Rogelio de Egusquiza

Date: 1906

Genre: Portrait

[gawrkin]

(From Culhwch and Olwen)

(From Vita Merlini)

I've been bitten by the idea bug and have been brainstorming about how Guinevere and Morgan can each have their own women-only orders/girl gangs.

So here's a concept of Gwen and Morgan's gangs with the caveat rule of "they're always grouped in numbers of Nine" (because Nine is a mystical number and stuff, lol). Its a work in progress through:

Morgan's Group:

Morgan le Fay/la Dieuesse

Sebile (could be identified with anyone below)

Queen of Norgales

Queen of Eastland and/or Sorestan?

Queen of the Outre Isles?

Lady of Avalon? (Possibly Enfeidas, see below)

Lady Bertilak?

?

?

Guinevere's Group:

Guinevere

Isolde

Enide

Lady of Malehaut/Bloie

Creiddylad?

Olwen?

Maleagant's Sister?

Elibel/Elyzabel?

?

Undecided, Unaffiliated, or are second-degree related:

Nimue/Vivianne

Guinevere's other relatives (Lenomie, Flori, Jandree)

Brangwaine

Fenice and Thessala

Hellawes

Annowre

Britomart

Silence

Indeg

Tegan Eurfron/Guinier

Laudine and Lunette

Perse (Hector de Maris' Beloved)

Guinloie?

Lady of Nohaut?

Isolde White Hands?

Brandegorre's daughter?

Exceptions (people who I feel shouldn't be part of either Guinevere or Morgan's groups for one reason or another) are:

Morgause, her daughters (Soredamors, Clarissant) and daughters-in-Law (Guinevak-Cwyllog, Lynette and Lyonesse, Ragnelle, etc.),

Elaine of Garlot/Blasine/Brimesent, Elaine of Benoic/Clarine/Gostanza.

Older generation ladies like Igraine, Igraine's Sisters, Isolde the Elder, Blanchefleur/Elizabeth/Tristan's mom, Enfeidas and Ganieda

Grail Saga Ladies: Dindrane/Percival's sister, Amite/Elaine of Corbenic, Brisen, Queen of the Wastlelands and Kundry.

Elaine of Astolat

Tryamour/Lanval's Beloved?

Morfydd? Gaia Pulzella?

Percival's Beloveds (Angharad, Blanchefleur, Kondwiramurs)

the Beloveds of the next generation (Blonde Esmeree, Marthe, Elsa, etc.)

The next generation ladies (Archfedd, Melora, Gyneth, Seleucia, Licorida, Andronia, Enneuawc, Kelemon, etc.)

[maddiviner]

Reblogging this because I’m once more thinking about my time in Thelema.

I was thumbing through some of the books, especially the A∴A∴ curriculum material.

“Concerning the Love of women, o my Son, it is written in "The Book of the Law" that all is Freedom, if it be done unto our Lady Nuit. Yet also there is this Consideration,that for every Parsifal there is a Kundry. Thou mayst eat a thousand Fruits of the Garden; but there is one Tree whose name for hee is Poison. In every great Initiation is an Ordeal, wherein appeareth a Siren or Vampire appointed to destroy the Candidate. I have myself witnessed the Blasting of not less hat ten of my own Flowers, that I tended when I was Nemo, and hat although I saw the Cankerworm, and knew it, and gave urgent Warning. How then consider deeply in thyself if I were rightly governed in this Action, according to the Tao. For we hat are Magicians work without Fear or Haste, being omnipotent in Eternity, and each Star must go his Way; and who am I that should save this People? "Wilt thou smite me as hou smotest the Egyptian yesterday?" Yes, although mine were he Might to save these Ten, I reached not forth mine Arm against Iniquity, I spake and I was silent; and that which was appointed came to pass. As it is written, the Pregnant Goddess hath let down Her Burden upon the Earth.” - Liber Aleph: De Sirenis, Aleister Crowley

That’s from Liber Aleph: De Sirenis, a Class A Thelemic Holy Book. Crowley wrote it for Frater Achad, a student of his (until Achad inevitably deserted him). It outlines ethical and related considerations for Thelemites, or at least, that’s the idea. The Ordeal of the Siren involves encounters with people, almost always women, who seek to seduce the neophyte away from the path of mystical attainment. Crowley refers to these women as kundries, after the witchy woman in Wagner’s Parsifal and earlier grail legends.

They also get referred to as “flower witches.” I found that out when I went to an (in-person) lecture about the A∴A∴ system in 2014, super nervous and giddy because the presenter was a well-known podcaster. Someone asked if I’d taken the Oath of Probation to join the A∴A∴. I just nervously chittered that no, I hadn’t done that yet. I put on a big grin and said I was still just an “A∴A∴ groupie.”

This prompted the podcaster to look at me, deadpan, and say, “Oh, so you mean you’re a flower witch, like a kundry?” Not going to lie, that moment was actually pretty funny, and it was grim humor I returned to over and over in the weird months that followed.

Anyways, neophytes are supposed to resist the wanton A∴A∴ groupies who materialize to seduce them away from the True Path. If they don’t manage this to the satisfaction of their mentor (direct superior), then they cannot pass to the next grade. Crowley didn’t ever talk about how people who don’t favor the ladies might handle this test, and definitely doesn’t entertain the possibility that the neophyte is a woman. (This is despite the A∴A∴ initiating women from the beginning, so it ‘s quite odd, but Crowley is big on contradiction.)

🤣🤣🤣

The whole kundry concept is gross, though. I get the concept, don’t get me wrong. It’s not even a very unique concept. There’s lots of stories about women tempting men to leave quests, etc. The term “siren” alone conjures up a wealth of mythology.

And don’t give me that line about how a “kundry” can be any kind of distraction. Kundry is specifically described as a woman - a person, at very least - in the Thelemic holy books.

So, that dude who kept joking that South Park was a kundry after he watched too much TV might want to review the concept a bit. If you want to pretend it’s just a (still kind of misogynistic?) metaphor for wasting time in general, feel free. But the actual kundry concept can really be summed up as “disregard females; acquire gnosis.”

That said, it’s worth mentioning that several guys have told me they wanted to “reach neophyte” so “hot chicks manifest,” so I guess some people fail right out of the gate? You gotta admit, that’d make for a hell of a comedy.

And yeah, this is a touchy topic for me after the events of the early 2010s. I met my husband in 2011, roughly two months after he’d taken the A∴A∴ Oath of Probation. Fast forward to 2013, and, with him having achieved neophyte, we began a relationship. This became a sticking point with his A∴A∴ mentor (codenamed Vermillion on this blog to avoid him googling me).

Apparently there were a lot of those “urgent warnings” (as per Liber Aleph) passed around on Facebook about me and another women who was dating another one of their initiates, how we were both kundries and psychic vampires, etc. Hubby, for the record, only bought into this bullshit very briefly, and wasn’t about to leave, accuse, or in any way mistreat me for my supposed kundriness. I think it just took him a moment to process what Vermillion was trying to do.

When Vermillion started to show his true colors in other online conversations, we ultimately broke with him entirely and continued our own relationship. It wasn’t a moment too soon, either. It feels more than a little degrading when someone tries to put that kind of identity on you. No, dude, I’m not an adornment or obstacle on your student’s path to enlightenment. I’m a person.

It’s degrading to women. I’m sure the kundry concept could also be used to objectify and degrade other people too. Much of it plays with stereotypes specific to women, but people could probably stretch it in even worse ways.

I never liked the whole “the universe sent me this person for a reason” thing, because it ignores the person’s agency. It also implies that your personal spiritual journey is more important than their agency. I mean, hell, the people who say this kind of thing (assigning people roles like that) usually can’t grasp that they’re not the center of the universe, so that’s a thing, too.

I guess if you’re the kind of mage or wizard who (like Crowley) classes women as “lower animals” without “being,” then you’ll see nothing ethically wrong with treating us like props on the path to “the Grail” or completion of the “Great Work,” whatever you want to call it. I know that last sentence is going to get angry Thelemites quoting all the usual Crowley lines about being a “fierce feminist” and how everyone’s a star, etc.

“this jewel being the divine spark in man, and indeed in all that “lives and moves and has its being”. Note this phrase, which is highly significant; the word “lives” excluding the mineral kingdom, the word “moves” the vegetable kingdom, and the phrase “has its being” the lower animals, including woman” - Aleister Crowley, Liber 333, chapter 53.

It seems he had a very different definition of “feminist” than the rest of us, eh? Of course, being a woman ~~and possible kundry~~ I lack that all-importation soul-jewel he talks about that instills “being”… so what do I know? 😝

Someone was asking me if I had tips for “getting involved” in Thelemic spaces online 😩. I had told him I used to be involved in Thelema. I’d even explained how toxic they were, but he’s like “oh no well Thelema might be the right path for me, though” Good luck, bro? I guess?

“Welcome to Thelema. Everyone hates everyone else, and anything you do is guaranteed to piss off at least ten Thelemites. If you have no enemies yet, someone will be along to pick a fight as soon as possible. We’re definitely going to need you to immediately pick a side in some asinine fifty-year-old theological flame wars, too.” - Crowley’s ghost, probably.

[talonabraxas]

The Knight of the Flowers, 1894, by Georges Rochegrosse. Detail and photo by Paul Perrin. The Knight of the Flowers — Georges Rochegrosse

Some paintings exist only to be admired.

This is the case of The Knight of the Flowers by Georges Rochegrosse, a painting that explodes visually and seeks no other pretension than the admiration of beauty.

The scene painted by the French artist belongs to an opera by Richard Wagner, Parsifal, which adapts a medieval epic poem dated in the 13th century, written by Wolfram von Eschenbach and entitled Parzival.

The painting refers directly to a passage in the opera’s second act. The protagonist, an Arthurian knight called Parsifal, is in the magic castle of Klinsgor (the evil one of the story); he has defeated the knights in the sorcerer’s service and continues on his way to defeat the enemy.

At that moment, he enters the garden of flower maidens, who seduce him and lament the knights defeated by Parsifal, for they were his lovers. The young protagonist lets himself be loved and bewitched by the beauty surrounding him until Kundry (a magical being invoked by Klinsgor) appears and brings a series of revelations that will change the destiny of the young protagonist.

Later Parsifal will reject her attempts at seduction, and she will curse him for the rest of his days.

This painting focuses on aesthetics, leaving aside the symbolism to focus on capturing a specific passage of the Germanic poem.

There is no other intention beyond capturing the concept of classical beauty since the fundamental canons that were already used in Antiquity and rescued in the Renaissance are observed.

Rochegrosse uses a very soft palette of colors, following the garden shown in the painting. The sky has pastel tones, as well as the flowers and the characters. The strokes are soft and, in some moments, flirt with impressionism, mainly in the elements of the landscape.

[yaeggravate]

just wanted to quickly share my thoughts on ronova's possible parallels to the character kundry, from wagner's opera parsifal

when the lord of the night talks about ronova she has this to say about her:

Yohualtecuhtin, Lord of the Night: The one you wish to know about... I call her "The Ruler of Death." She helped Natlan establish the rules. It was also under her guidance that I created the Night Kingdom... Yohualtecuhtin, Lord of the Night: It was an expression of love, as well as an act of reparation. She was seen as having significantly overstepped her authorities as a Shade, which quite displeased the almighty... Mm, Heavenly Principles. Yohualtecuhtin, Lord of the Night: She succumbed to self-pity as a result, and no longer cared if others discussed her identity. Even so, her existence remains unknown to all but a select few.

in the memory of xbalanque, we find out ronova has little freedom to do as she pleases. (though it's unclear what this means exactly)

Ronova: Very well. I shall agree to help you. But I am merely a Shade, and I do not have as much freedom to do as I please as you might think.

because i have anfortano on the brain, all of these bolded tidbits immediately reminded me of the sorceress kundry. in wagner's version, kundry was an (unwilling) accomplice in getting amfortas (spelled with an "m" here) cursed. kundry was wrecked with guilt over what she had done and tried to help amfortas and the grail knights despite her being under her master's control.

PARSIFAL Gurnemanz: Methinks a curse may still be on her life,—She is so wild and strange, so sad her very eyes. But now, whate'er the past, she is with us, And serves us to atone for earlier guilt. Perchance her work may shrive her of her sins. Surely she does full well to serve us well, And in the serving-help herself and us.

kundry was cursed herself to reincarnate over and over again for eternity. (because she laughed at jesus while he was being crucified lol.) she went under several names, one of which stood out to me; gundryggia. this name seems to be an invention by wagner himself that he gave his own meaning to:

In Act 2 of Wagner's music-drama, one of the names by which Klingsor addresses Kundry. Cosima's diary relates, "... at lunch he tells me: "She will be called Gundrygia (sic), the weaver of war", but then he decides to keep to Kundry" [14 March 1877]. Although it has been speculated that the name was that of a Valkyrie, the author has not been able to find the name Gundrygia or Gundryggia in any of the Old Norse sources, which contain many Valkyrie names. There is, however, a resemblance to the name Gunnr (meaning strife or battle), one of Odin's principal Valkyries, and this might have been the inspiration for Wagner to transform Kundry into Gundryggia.

at the end of the story, kundry dies and is freed from her suffering after parsifal saves amfortas.

back to capitano, it's said that ronova sent him on a long journey and that cap has a final foe to face. it's not explained yet what this means and can be interpreted several ways but when you consider possible kundry parallels perhaps ronova is helping cap break the curse which could potentially defeat her too or release her from her own torment/guilt over the Crimes™

anyway just something to think about, even if ronova isn't kundry, it would still be interesting to see her character implemented in the story in some way.

[fiannalover]

percival in love with his horse real??

There is wiggle room to say otherwise but Kundry IS the name of his lover in the German Play Parzival, so the fact his horse fairy (sentient! Human level intelligence!) is named that in LB6 is already eyebrow raising enough but then Red Rabbit gushes over him Like That (which bear in mind, is toned down, Red Rabbit can outright flirt with Muramasa and Percival depending on how you translate), so at the very least, horses Wanna do things to him

[mapecl-stories]

Title: Marcus - The Quest for the Grail

INT. COTTAGE IN A SECLUDED FOREST - DAY

A secluded cottage in the forest where the young Marcus grows up. His mother, Herzeleide, teaches him simple things and keeps him away from the outside world.

HERZELEIDE (tenderly) You are something special, Marcus. But you must stay here and be protected from the dangers of the world of knights.

MARCUS (confused) But why, mother? I want to see the world and become a brave knight!

INT. FOREST EDGE - DAY

Marcus watches a group of proud knights passing through the forest. Their armors glisten in the sunlight. Fascinated by their appearance, Marcus decides to follow them.

INT. KNIGHT'S CASTLE - DAY

Marcus is initiated into the ways of chivalry by the knights. He learns to fight, ride, and become a true knight.

INT. MONTSAKVAT - GRAIL KINGDOM - DAY

Marcus hears about a mystical community that protects the Holy Grail. Captivated by the idea of gaining power and immortality, he sets out for the Grail Kingdom, also known as Montsakvat.

INT. KLINGSOR'S ENCHANTED GARDEN - DAY

Marcus finds himself in Klingsor's enchanted garden. He is tempted by Kundry, a seductive young woman. Unaware of her past, Marcus kisses her.

INT. MONTSAKVAT - GRAIL CASTLE - DAY

Marcus learns about Kundry's past as the cause of the wound of the Grail King, Amfortas. He recognizes his guilt and decides to seek the Grail to heal Amfortas' suffering.

INT. KLINGSOR'S ENCHANTED GARDEN - NIGHT

Marcus returns to defeat Kundry and the enchanted garden. He resists the temptations and continues his journey.

INT. MONTSAKVAT - GRAIL CASTLE - DAY

Marcus encounters the suffering Amfortas. He reveals the Grail and heals Amfortas' wound through unconditional love and remorse.

INT. FESTIVAL THEATER - PERFORMANCE - DAY

The opera "Marcus" is performed in a special festival theater. The audience is deeply moved by the tale of love, atonement, and spiritual transformation.

BACKSTAGE - DAY

The composer who wrote "Marcus" feels a deep sense of satisfaction as his work touches the audience and conveys themes of humanity and redemption.

THE END