#Korn x Win

[thedooristhebluecushion]

I want to follow what’s going on in House of Stars, I promise, there is just so much happening at the same time.

[divineandmajesticinone]

4 MINUTES (2024) I 1.03 "I didn't think you were like this. Like what? Like this..."

[chaos0pikachu]

tonkla and korn make me wanna chew glass they were truly the ride or die toxic yaoi pair I crave like they had a lot of ups and downs and deeply flawed chars but in the end what they wanted most was to be together AND I CAN'T HANDLE THIS

[scarefox]

Tonkla asked Win to do the same things to him, Tonkla did to Korn in ep1. Liking his nips and sucking him. He did that to Korn, served him, on his own unasked.

That's interesting. He's reversing their dynamic with Win.

Difference is that Korn came, asked Tonkla if he should finish him. Tonkla was like "nah it's fine". Korn jerked Tonkla off anyways.

Win jerked Tonkla off while they still fucked. Tonkla came. Win didn't. Tonkla left him unfinished.

Tonkla is acting in Korns previous position. But in a bad version. If he sees Win as himself, in his previous position, it might be that Tonkla is degrading himself. Or thinks that's what he should get from Korn instead of the nice treatment he got?

EDIT: Or, he's taking revenge on Korn-stand-in Win that way.

--

Such a good example for the people who think sex scenes are a waste of time and space.

[gent-ly]

wanted to share my thoughts on the NC scenes in 4 minutes because apparently people have been complaining? idk man there’s no pleasing some people. anyway, i am not saying anything new but to me….

relationships (whether that’s a relationship between lovers or enemies or strangers, i’m talking how people relate to one another in any given context, i’m talking interaction and connection or lack thereof) are all about *communication*

that’s not just words, of course. i mean the silences between people. and the micro expressions. and the body language. and the sex. the sex is as important as dialogue if that is a part of a relationship dynamic! even if what’s being communicated between two people is: oh this feels good, do you feel good, too? all of these ways of communicating say so much about the characters as individuals and how they interact with other characters in their world.

that’s storytelling bro! people have sex! and sex isn’t always kinky! and that’s okay!

the great/tyme NC scene was perfect because it was so fucking natural and omg laughing with your partner whilst having sex is AWESOME. like, what does that say to you? to me it says: i’m embarrassed by how much i want you and you want me too and omg i wish i were smooth like they are in the movies but you’re smiling at me and i don’t think I’ve ever felt so comfy around someone that we can fuck and giggle about how awkward we are and still have a great time. also, are you okay? is this okay? because i know you’re smiling but tell me, let me know i’m taking care of you well.

yeeeah. anywho.

storytelling is fun for plot purposes of course and 4 minutes has an intriguing story but no one cares about the story if you don’t care about the characters. and how do you learn about the characters? by the way they interact with the world around them and the other characters. including through sex! yay!

[hotasfahrenheit]

anyone else spend the past week thinking about how it's not just that Tonkla pushed Korn out of the way to take the bullet for Korn, but also that the reason Win drew on Korn to begin with was because Korn was about to shoot Win and by pushing Korn aside, he stopped Korn from being able to shoot his gun at all?

he was trying to save them both, and in the end he only saved Win.

Tonkla was on a mission of vigilante justice for this whole show, and he made sure that the one person who was not actually associated with crime or anyone's death or murders, who had spent the whole time trying to get justice for Dome and Tonkla, who had tried to help even tho things were constantly taken out of his hands and every trail he followed led to a dead end, was the one who survived.

Tonkla died thinking that both of the men who loved him were alive, that he had stopped them from killing each other. that they would both live even if he didn't.

it just makes everything sadder.

[stuffnonsenseandotherthings]

Just throwing it out there but I'm pretty sure Tonkla is a bird in a very pretty gilded cage. The only time we've seen him leave his house is when he went to the police station to identify his brother's body and the cold open of episode 2. In every other scene, Tonkla is in his house, protected by (locked away behind) that big old gate and cut off from the rest of the world.

Now maybe he chose to live that way (we know he's struggling with his mental health) or maybe Korn chose it for him. Maybe it's a combination of both but either way he is so incredibly isolated and it seems like Korn is the only person he's interacted with for a long time before Win turned up.

Taking his isolation into account, that makes Korn ignoring him so much worse because there is no doubt in my mind Korn knows Tonkla doesn't have anyone else, that he is Tonkla's only real support system. If that's the case then Korn goes from being a dick to being downright abusive.

No wonder Tonkla gave into Win so easily and, if it is Korn on the receiving end of Tonka's rock in episode 2, then good for him.

[alarmsofmyheart]

Tonkla having his first ever kiss & eventually sex after his pet died, following how Korn was there for him when he buried the cat etc and Tonkla having it all with Win, following how Win was there informing about his brother's death as well as showing up/being there for him, while he creamated the body.. is the parallel I didn't want to acknowledge but here we are.

Let the gays live. Let the gays' pets live.

Why do the pets have a die for their owners to find love 😭

[scarlettundrhett]

[myezblog]

Ep 4

Pretty solid episode... most of the theories have been validated.

What we got right -

All experiences that Great is having of saving people and essentially everything , it is all in his head... nothing happening for real

4 minutes because heart stopping and brain stopping - dead to really really dead is 4 minutes (we are 11.02 right now.. Great is alive until 11:04)

After death experience - were right about beliefs... wherein one patient saw angels performing on her.. whereas the 4 min. thing is more about regrets and what ifs... ( interestingly, we did not hear Lukwa tell us which part of her life she revisited during her 4 min. journey)

Thing is linked to saving Tyme... This is Great grappling desparately and with all the what ifs to save Tyme... his most important moment, person, life phase...

Tonkla's motive and brother, Tonkla using Win

Timelines -

Scene before intro is the real normal actual timeline (i had this theory since ep 2 and there is another person who had the same theory...don't recall user id) ... So, in the present, ep 1 - Great is in the hospital and Tyme is dying ; ep 2 - Tonkla did murder and take revenge ; ep 3 and 4 - Police is investigating the murders

All of great's experiences - whichever scene he is in is playing in his mind... timeflow is not normal pace

Don't think there are more timelines. Even Korn-Win-Tonkla thing that we are being shown is in the past/ actual past (we can see this because Great is living the past... so he has the full picture at this time)

Where the timeline falters-

3. So, lady was also in her arrest while/when Great went into arrest- ep 1... SO, when she came to visit Dan with her 4 min. experience, she had come out of her cardiac arrest moment and interacted with Dan quite a few times by then...

But great is still on the hospital bed... and yet Dan talks about Great as another patient who can see 4 min. in the future..

My guess is, Lukwa is also someone who existed in past... and great heard of her case...hence she is part of the story in his brain...

He hasn't met lukwa yet in the 4 min. room... he will... and i guess that's when timelines will start sorting themselves out..

Tonkla -

Tonkla killed his dad or was involved hence his fingerprints exist in the database. Cat was likely killed by dad. That's why Mio was so against title because title abuses girls too and is an aggressive person

Definitely using Win for the case

Did love Korn, does love Korn... but will be interesting to see how he reacts when he knows that along with Title, Great was also there when title bludgeoned his brother to death

Korn said he would tell the world that tonkla is his boyfriend...but now korn has a fiancee and uh! messed up

(lol.. at Win not wearing his pants back during the whole time korn was there)

Great -

The place they have run to... which Great has taken them to and not tyme... again reaffirms that this is not real.. all is happening in his head...

So, he is with tyme.. in a nice romantic serene place where no one can find them and which Great doesn't know himself

Ost lyrics

I could give it all to be with you even if it is merely an illusion from the heaven

Every sin and sorrow i shouldered was from my heart's command

It means i could do anything and everything if you were to leave me

I will not say it again but please keep this in mind, You can never leave me

I know fairly well that caring for a venomous snake would make my life suffer everyday

And if one day, anyone betrays me, I can assure you in one word:

Avenge, i will destroy and cleanse it all till your very last day

There will not be a single minute where your wish can be fulfilled

If you ever let go of my hand, i promise you that when we meet next time You will have to come crawling back to me

Even when i know you are venomous, i still endure it

Whatever reason it may be but i am not giving you up to anyone else

You can never leave me

I know fairly well that feeding a venomous snake would make me live in paranoia everyday

And even if you turn to bite my feeding hands and betray me, i can assure you that i will "Avenge"... destroying and cleansing it all till your very last day

I will use your tears to cleanse it all..

In summary

Tonkla and Great have to overlap somewhere with respect to Tyme for the two stories to make sense. Likely Tonkla is on revenge targetting both Title and Great (he could go after tyme given Tyme is precious to Great) Or Korn-Tyme conflict linking itself to Tonkla (aka what if Korn could freely love Tonkla and never pushed into business)

Great's arc... it is like the Godfather... Great is the nice guy, detached from all shady and business stuff... but going by OST... he has to emerge as someone who is way better than Korn at handling this business and upping against every other player

The past that we see in Great's mind is also twisted... e.g. we don't know if Tyme genuinely liked Great or was using him till the very end... but Great must have turned grey (taking over business, handling korn.. etc etc.. to protect tyme)

Going back to the statement that has been made twice now about one's beliefs and religion playing a part on the deathbed.... I THINK.. it is the sheer strong will of great to save Tyme that Tyme might be saved by the end of this ordeal.. Great may or maynot be alive

[divineandmajesticinone]

4 MINUTES (2024) I 1.02 "Do the police normally do house check-ins."

[chaos0pikachu]

on a meta-textual/Doylist level what I like about the Korn/Tonkla/Win subplot is there's actual tension and the fact that JJay & Fuiaz are a "branded pair" doesn't influence the story so much that the subplot overall lacks tension.

Tonkla as a character has genuine feelings towards Korn and they've shared on screen intimacy that enforces their relationship - even if that relationship is partially transactional on Korn's side or otherwise. This provides tension in the narrative with the characters and makes their overall relationships with each other and thus the story much stronger.

Comparison - one that might get me kicked but it be what it be - example the Sand/Ray/Mew/Top storyline in Only Friends which had zero tension.

Why? Because the audience pretty much knew from the get RaySand and MewTop were endgame but that's just a factor, knowing the endgame isn't contingent on poor storytelling - don't we all know how Romeo and Juliet ends after all?

No what made is weak and flimsy was the narrative never provides any real stakes or tension for those characters.

Mew never once feels anything for Ray that isn't friendship, they never even attempt to have sex (even bad sex), Ray openly continues to hookup and pursue Sand whilst with Mew (and Sand is even mostly okay with this as tho it matters none at all because ultimately, it doesn't) and while Top was bothered, he wasn't threatened. It was all just narrative punishment and penance for his cheating. We don't even see Ray and Mew on a real date or share a real moment of genuine emotional intimacy that's romantic and/or sexual, their bookshop date only makes Mew think of Top, Ray spends more time with Sand, etc.

It's not just that the endgame is Sand/Ray & Mew/Top it's that the endgame is FirstKhao and ForceBook. It's that this is an rpf au dressed up like a tv show rather than a story.

Which is where Korn/Tonkla/Win feels different.

Off the bat Tonkla and Win are already vastly different characters from White and Tee from their roles in Dead Friend Forever. Korn is obviously different from Arm in Kinnporsche. And the narrative has built genuine feeling between Korn and Tonkla, where Win's feelings for Tonkla - at this stage - appear more one-sided. Yet Tonkla's slept with both characters, he's showcasing agency and desire in different ways with both of them. His relationship with both is very different. Will he even "end up" with one or the other? How will Korn react if/when he finds out about this affair? Especially since Win's a cop and Korn is involved in illegal shit. We don't actually know which makes the story far more exciting to engage in.

Even though objectively I knew Win and Tonkla would "get together" in some capacity because of JJay/Fuiaz, there's far more tension and character motivation here which makes for a vastly more interesting story.

My issue with "branded pairings" as a whole is more often than not I find it hurts the narrative potential of a story by cutting the tension off at the knees, by not allowing more interesting and complicated relationships and character motivations to form and develop. As well as hurting an actors growth and ability to like, act when they're playing the same boxed archetype to fit their branded pairings, well, their brand.

[tinysweetflour]

Congrats to tonkla for finally getting it raw 👏

[thedooristhebluecushion]

Does anyone have a good grasp on what is happening in 4 Minutes in regards to the two timelines & could explain it to me like I'm a first grader?

[hotasfahrenheit]

Tonkla not even locking the door after Korn left and just immediately climbing on top of Win

at least he got what he wanted finally because there was no product placement getting in his way this time 🤣