#Jughead ISN'T AroAce

[rythmicjea]

I REALLY need people to stop pushing this narrative. Because it's just plain wrong. Tell me you never read Archie comics before Riverdale without telling me. Jughead was asexual (Not AroAce) in one comic line. A short lived one at that. They also play his aceness as a joke too.

Canonically, for the past 80 years, Jughead has always been Allo and been romantically involved with several girls. He married Ethel in one iteration and Midge in another. Fuck, if you think they pulled Jeronica out of thin air in S7 you definitely haven't read the comics. He dates Veronica several times in the comics and there are hundreds of panels of him being attracted to her (don't believe me? I rbed a comic from 1952 where he basically manipulated Archie and Reggie so Veronica could be his date to a dance). He doesn't even date Betty until the 21st century.

The reason why people are so quick to call him ace is because they literally ignore every time he says he doesn't want to date someone is because he doesn't want a relationship built on drama. Archie craves two girls after him at the same time. He's girl crazy! And that's from his very first appearance. Jughead has always loved deeply and completely. At most he's Demisexual. So to call him Aromantic is just insulting.

Jughead in the comics is a pretty complex character who gets relegated to "comic relief" because he "wears a funny hat". He was anti-establishment from the beginning. He is completely devoted to Jellybean too (which, because BH fans were so insane, didn't get explored along with other team-ups). There's a comic that shows how connected they are. When she cries, he cries; when she's hungry, he's hungry; when she laughs, he laughs; when she's sleepy so is he. He routinely climbs into her crib to cuddle with her because he's her favorite person (in the comics he's 16/17 and she's no more than 18mo old).

Jughead is not and has never been "AroAce". STOP pushing this narrative because there's literally eighty years of history that contradicts you!

I was rewatching Riverdale (you don’t have to tell me how bad it is, I already know) and I always get so pissed because of how CW totally rewrote key aspects of Jughead’s character, my boy is canonly aroace and CW straight up just decided that that didn’t mean anything all because they wanted to have this weird love triangle thing going on. And if you wanna be all like “well they took creative liberties to push the plot of the show forward” they could’ve kept it true to his character and still have ways to push the plot forward, to me it just seems like it was lazy writing on their part.

if you ship Jughead with anyone, no hate to you, but I just think that it’s totally unfair for them to change his storyline/character so drastically, especially since there’s like basically no aroace characters/representation in pop culture.

[it-is-only-a-novel]

Aspec symbols

So I've been trying to gather a list of aspec symbols! Old and new, widely accepted, but also more obscure. Here's my list so far, including links and explanations (in italics) where possible. I've tried also to add in the specific labels that the symbols "belong to" where relevant/possible.

Arospec:

the color green (and anything green)

white aro ring which is worn on the middle finger of the left hand link

aro flag

archery (bow & arrow)

arrows of any type

frogs they are green (this is a more general queer symbol as well) link & link

yellow roses (& yellow flowers in general, seems to be more for alloplatonic aros, since yellow represents platonic love) link

sunflowers (aroallos) aroallo flag colors link

aardvarks link

anglerfish link

manticores link

rats link

nandays and caiques link

griffins link

phoenixs link

anatomical hearts distancing ourselves from the regular outlook on love, and/or love in general may be more for loveless and/or heartless aros

<2 link

succulents green

cacti green & many do not want romantic partners and can be seen as prickly, or want to be prickly

plants in general green!!

"no romo"

hummingbirds (aroallos) link

pineapples (aroallos) link

pizza & ice cream link

kiwis link

the emojis:🫀, 🏹, ↖️, ↗️, 🌻, 💚,🍍, 🍏, 💘 explanations: link

paper crowns references jughead jones from the archie comics link

Acespec:

dragons link

cake cake is better than sex link

garlic bread

the color purple

black ace ring which is worn on the middle finger of the right hand link

ace flag

space

pirates "Ace pirates aren’t interested in your booty" link

wolves

ghosts (demisexuals) link

axolotls

denim vests

cryptids

AVEN triangle

ace cards suits: spades-aroaces, Hearts-Alloromantics, Diamonds-deamisexuals, Clubs-grey-asexuls link

the emojis: 💜, ♠️

some of these are based off this post, and this master post

Aplspec:

the colors blue & yellow in the apl flag

apples (green apples can be geared toward apls that are also aros)

blue heart 💙

bees

iridescence

apl flag

blue roses link

Blue apl ring on the thumb link

based off of this post, explanations are there.

Aspec:

aliens & robots reclaiming stereotypes about dehumanization link

Artemis goddess in Greek mythology focused on her passion for hunting. Represents finding fulfilment in other aspects of life not only sex, romance, friendship, love, and so on. Also used a bow & arrow link and also my own interpretation from reading about her

Many thanks to @merely-a-caricature, @the-big-gayheart, @heartless-aro, @arosunflower, @saffigon, @crab-in-progress, @aroace-thoughts, @apl-aro-narc, @entropy-sea-system, @dateademisexualpersonwho, @legally-x, @askanaroace, @aroace-people-are-lgtbq, @the-amber-droid-dreams, @foolishfynnesse and @itsnotasecret20 I used their posts/reblogs/comments to compile many of these symbols (and I've linked the posts). If I've missed someone, I apologize, it isn't intentional!

Last edit: 23/2/2024

I also want to add, that this post doesn't include all aspec identities, such as agender, afamilial, asensual, and more. They are important parts of the community, but I'm only informed on some, so couldn't include them.

[taliesin-the-bored]

Arthurian characters I interpret as acespec:

Galahad, the Grail Heroine, and Bors: They generally have no apparent trouble or qualms with the eternal chastity thing (except Bors when he gets cursed, but he gets cursed).

Brangaine: In La Tavola Ritonda, she tells Gouvernail that she never wants to have sexual relationships, and in a text I haven't yet read or been able to identify, she apparently stops Kahedin from sleeping with her by using a magic pillow to make him fall asleep, a role which is Camille's in Kaherdin and Camille.

Dinadan: In LTR, they call him the Wise Man Who Does Not Love, and while he has a romantic interest in LTR, their relationship isn't sexual. To the best of my knowledge, he has no other romantic interest and no sexual relationship in all of medlit and pretty much always scorns both concepts. Usually aro, demiromantic in one text, and always ace.

Lucan: It's not anything he says or does, but unless you count the actions of Lucano the evil half-giant half-lion in LTR, he doesn't have any romantic and/or sexual relationships in any medlit I know of. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, but in my mind, he's on the aro and ace spectrums.

Happy Ace Week to all who celebrate!

Edit: I had somehow left out Dinadan, who I originally meant to include a picture of. I guess you could say he's implicit. Truly one of the aroace icons of all time. He ran so Jughead could also run.

[lontra23]

List/ Collage with A-Spec Characters: canon confirmed, and popular headcanons

Colours:

Canon confirmed: blue

popular headcanon/ speculation: orange

Alastor, Hazbin Hotel: ace, aro

Senku Ishigami, Dr. Stone: ace, aro

Vi Moradi, Star Wars: ace, aro

Victor Vale, Vicious: ace, biromantic

Spongebob: ace

Kirby: ace, aro, non-binary

the Knight, Hollow Knight: agender, ace, aro

Todd Chavez, BoJack Horseman: ace

Georgia Warr, Loveless: ace, aro, aego?

Jughead Jones, Archie: ace

Doomguy/ Dooomslayer: ace

Seiji Maki, Bloom into you: ace, aro, aegoromantic?

Monkey D. Luffy, One Piece: ace, aro

Connor Hawke, DC Comics: ace, alloromantic

Perry the platypus: ace, aro

Kusuo Saiki, Disastrous life of Saiki K.: ace, aro

Yelena Belova, Marvel: ace, aro

Izaya Orihara, Durara: ace, aro

Daryl Dixon, the Walking Dead: ace

Keyleth, Critical Role: demisexual

Neil Josten, Foxhole Court: demisexual, demiromantic

Isaac Henderson, Heartstopper: ace, aro

Vernestra Rwoh, Star Wars: ace, aro

Light Yagami, Death Note: ace, aro

Caduceus Clay, Critical Role: ace, aro

Murderbot, Murderbot Diaries: ace, aro, genderless

Jonathan "Jon" Simms, Magnus Archives: ace, biromantic

Shouto Todoroki, Boku no Hero Academia: ace, aro

Lilith Clawthorne, Owl House: ace, aro

Bill Cypher, Gravity Falls: ace, aro, agender

Ezperanza "Spooner" Cruz, Legends of Tomorrow: ace

Nadia Van Dyne/ the Wasp, Marvel: ace, aro, quoiromantic

Peridot, Stephen Universe: ace, aro

Gwenpool, Marvel: ace, aro

Frieren: a-spec, ace, aro

Joffrey Baratheon, Game of Thrones: ace, aro

Sherlock Holmes, Arthur Conan Doyle: ace, aro

Lord Varys, Game of Thrones: ace, aro

Reyna Avila Ramirez-Arellano, Percy Jackson: ace, aro

Son Goku, Dragonball: ace

10th Doctor, Doctor Who (David Tennant): ace, panromantic

11th Doctor, Doctor Who (Matt Smith): ace

Sakuko Kodama, Koisenu Futari: ace, aro

Satoru Takahashi, Koisenu Futari: ace, aro

Felicity Montague, Lady's guide to petticoats and piracy: ace, aro

Jasnah Kholin, Stormlight Archive: ace, heteroromantic

Loth, Priory of the Orange Tree: grey-ace

Tané, Priory of the Orange Tree: ace, aro

Adèle, Baker Thief: demisexual, bi

Claire/ Claude, Baker Thief: aro (aroallo!), genderfluid

Sandry, Circle of Magic: ace

Ling Chan, the Diviners: ace, lesbian

Nancy Whitman, Every Heart a Doorway: ace, alloromantic

Kel, Protector of the Small: ace, aro

Natalie, Natural History of Dragons: ace, aro

Raphael Santiago, Shadowhunters: Cassandra Clare: ace, aro (In the show only ace)

Please note that I took most of my information from online, and I didn't personally read/ watch everything, so there may be some mistakes. Also, some of the not-canon characters are very likely aspec, but just not confirmed. And especially if they say/ do really obviously aro/ ace stuff, I wasn't sure if it's enough to put them in the "confirmed" category. (e.g. Saiki literally said he isn't attracted to anyone regardless of gender, and never wants to be in a relationship. But there are still people who doubt his aroace-ness. (And at this point I don't see how it could be anything but aphobia, to deny the mere possibility of him being aroace so vehemently lol.) ) Also: Sadly, I couldn't find good aro-allo characters except Claire/ Claude from "baker thief". There is tons of good a-spec representation in that book (also more side characters that I didn't mention here), but I couldn't really find any fan-art. So then I just slapped the entire book cover on the collage.

[atalana]

if you're also interested in comics, legally obligated to give a shoutout to the 2015 jughead series for being the first aroace representation i ever encountered

(him being uninterested in romance had been a running bit in the archie comics since like the 80s, but that series made it explicitly and wonderfully canon with several storylines dedicated to it and a writer who's not afraid to joke about it)

Do you have any book (or show or movie) recs with asexual men? I feel like all the books with asexual characters I’ve read feature asexual women but no asexual men. Fiction or nonfiction is good. TIA!

ooo this is a great ask!! women are definitely more likely to be the ace rep in the books I have read!!

first off, How to Be a Normal Person by TJ Klune is fantastic. the love interest is a man and asexual. it's a mlm adult romance novel, very low stakes and I totally cried. I haven't read the sequel, but the main character is demisexual in that one and a man. bonus, TJ Klune is asexual himself and (if I recall correctly) The Lighting Struck Heart has a prominent asexual side character.

Ace by Angela Chen is a nonfiction book and she interviews many people throughout her books, and I distinctly remember her interviewing men, specifically talking to one about how his gender intersected with his asexuality.

I never finished Tarnished Are the Stars by Rosiee Thor, but one of the three main characters was an aro ace teen boy. This is a scifi, set in space, YA novel.

Radio Silence by Alice Oseman has a major character who is a demisexual teen boy. It's YA contemporary. I also cried reading this.

Rick by Alex Gino is a middle grade novel about a middle school boy questioning his place in the queer community. Very sweet.

That Kind of Guy by Talia Hibbert is a contemporary romance and one of the main characters is a demisexual man falling in love with his best friend (who is a fantasy author). This was unexpected for me because I picked this up for the author, not the demi rep so I was over the moon.

side note, for tv shows, I've only watched Todd's ace clips, but there is a male character who realizes he is ace.

The podcasts A-OK and Sounds Fake but Okay both have interviews with ace men, so if you like podcasts, I would check those out as well.

[purplespacekitty]

just wanna formally apologize to anyone i've been INTENSE about Riverdale to. not because i love Riverdale. because Jughead Jones is canonically touch-averse and aroace and i will never, EVER, evereverevereverever forgive Riverdale for willfully ignoring that.

also, they barely showed our boy with any burgers or fries or milkshakes or gummy worms or any kind of food throughout the whole show. a travesty. dude held a PC controller maybe once. and uh, i don't think they ever had him playing his drum set. ...they tried to do the whole music thing, but The Archies never happened on Riverdale. could have been a great way to keep Josie and the Pussycats in the picture as crossovers between the two comic lines (and additionally, with Sabrina The Teenage Witch) have commonly been used to keep stories going, but it just dissolved before it could even start. anyway, Jughead Jones was born to eat burgers, dispense witty remarks on his friends’ social drama, wage prank wars and play drums, it's literally his destiny (and so is being Archie's best bud).

and like.

here's the thing.

i know, i know, i know that Riverdale isn't the Archie Comics. it's "edgy" or whatever. but like, have you ever read the Archie Comics?????? there are hundreds of storylines more edgy than Riverdale's and in (probably) every single one of them, Jughead eats more net burgers than he eats in all 7 seasons of Riverdale. he has his little angsty plots and crazy nonsensical adventures and is never as deprived of food and games as he is in Riverdale.

he's been this way since 1939, when the Archie Comics first came about. granted, video games didn't exist then, but his whole deal has always been eating burgers and being Archie's best pal. he's a breath of fresh air, a glass of cold water to the face for Archie and the gang to snap them out of their various problems (mostly love- and dating-related, but sometimes friendship- or science or general-good-time-adventure-related). he is often the voice of reason, which is why Riverdale!Jughead doesn't really work. original Jughead has a unique perspective, being primarily preoccupied with food and video games and avoiding all potentially romantic/sexual situations that might involve him: he can observe everything without getting (too) mixed up in all of it. and the more wisdom he imparts to his friends; the more jokes and witty comments he concocts during a given meet-up at Pop's; the more he goofs off and plays pranks on his friends and enemies, the more secure their collective friendship is. and he's perfectly happy with the state of things. he doesn't yearn for romance or sex, all he truly yearns for is a day spent eating burgers with his friends. as long as he has a snack readily available, he's happy to be alone or on an adventure. his natural state is in solitude, which is a state he sometimes has to seek out, but he never has to go far in any quest for company. it's exactly where he wants to be. he would rather eat his cake and eat it, too. Riverdale!Jughead inserts himself into the chaos, which original Jughead would rather play a game of football against Reggie than willfully do.

i think Riverdale tried to play into Jughead's comfortability with and preference for his general nonconformism with that whole "i’m a weirdo" speech, but ultimately failed because in the end, they still had him conforming to norms the original Jughead scoffs at. and Bughead, as the literal 85 years of Archie Comics and 7 seasons of Riverdale (in which Bughead basically become kinda-sorta-maybe-almost-pseudo step-siblings??? idk the whole thing between FP and Alice just makes it too weird for me) clearly demonstrate, added nothing to either Jughead’s or Betty’s characters and only contributed to the erasure of one of the longest running aroace characters there is. when the comics did try to give Jughead love interests, it was either extremely out of character, played for laughs as a way to shame him for not being interested in romance or just simply…didn’t work. usually some combination of all of the above. because Jughead is fundamentally aroace and has no desire to be with anyone in a romantic or sexual way. plus it kinda messes up the whole premise of the Archie Comics? teenage boy can’t choose between best friends Girl Next Door and Uptown Girl, who both care for him and each other equally, so he dates them both? it would have been way more refreshing to see them explore the complex open/polyamorous relationship that Archie, Betty and Veronica have been negotiating for 85 years through a more queer and empathetic lens than what Riverdale actually turned out to be. maybe they wouldn’t have erased Jughead’s queerness or sidelined other canonically queer characters (i.e. Kevin, Toni, Fangs, etc.) if they’d taken that route. it would be cool to see a plot within the Archie universe constructively centering queerness as a main element of its characters as storyline.

Riverdale refused to keep the most essential parts of the original Jughead's character: aversion to physical touch, romance and sex, an aggressive adoration for burgers, rhythm and musicality and his ability to separate himself from tense situations in order to problem-solve. what the other characters often sneer at or find frustrating about him are actually the things that solidify his importance in their lives. he balances them out. and there are moments when his friends recognize and celebrate that. and him being this essential, inextricable part of an iconic friend group in the comics is an extremely heartwarming thing to see as an arospec/acespec person, myself.

this was supposed to be an apology, wasn't it...oops? sorry?

Riverdale just kinda missed the whole point of Jughead Jones. and i WILL be salty about it forever.

[roseredsnow]

I've said this so often but saying it again and please reblog.

"But people headcannon straight people as lgbt+ without a problem, why is it an issue for aroaces"

Is such a bullshit argument.

Cause what character is actually confirmed straight? Genuinely name me one, not assumed because it's still the default, or because they like someone of a different gender.

But writers or an actor or said in the media and never retconned, confirmed straight.

That's the difference.

(Fuck Marvel for supporting genocide and I don't even ship it but the most common example)

Shipping Bucky and Steve doesn't erase anything because neither character is confirmed straight.

Shipping Yelena and Bucky or Kate blatantly ignores Devin Grayson (Also fuck her for how bad she screwed nightwing) confirming she's ace and clearly implying she's aro just didn't realise it needed to be specified too.

It ignores the line in Pale Little Spider #2 "I'm not a lesbian, Im not anything" and the entire trio of those comics where Yelena is baffled about the idea of sexual attraction.

(And don't you dare tell me that's out of context I've read it multiple times I know the context).

It also ignores other aroace characters that have had their identity erased for the sake of plot. Jughead Jones and Shatterstar to name two, I've even seen a fic shipping the High Republics beloved Vernestra Rwoh and while I don't believe her identity will be erased in Acolyte (cause HR fans will riot) it's still a major concern new fans will.

However shipping Vernestra is not comparable to shipping say Reath and Bell because neither character is confirmed straight.

This isn't even touching on the fact (cis) straight people don't experience discrimination for being queer (both from queer and non queer people) and have already got tons of rep to see themselves in.

[forgottenspring]

Mild rant on Alastor bc I'm tired.

*takes deep breath*

I was going to stay out of this so rip to my inbox.

Does anybody remember the whole ace doxing list on here? The whole discussion of not shipping gay characters with the opposite gender? The rep for pan/bi representation and the steps to do it right? Does anybody remember when ppl on here discussed how aros and aces aren't a part of the queer community bc they're not 'gay enough' in a way? Bc I do. That was about a decade ago. And I remember when Alastor was first introduced in the pilot and ppl not accepting he was aroace back then.

It doesn't matter if Alastor is entirely aroace and if he's capable of dating or not.

What matters is we still have so little ace representation and acceptance, especially aroace rep, that a few years ago when a real person Jaiden Animations came out as aroace, ppl tried to destroy her, bc even with a perfect valid explanation of her just saying aroaces are their own thing and she just doesn't want to date, ppl treated it like she was lying or was trying to sneak into the queer community and was straight or all the other horrible things yall might remember "fans" did to her.

Alastor being aroace isn't about being the rep of "Aroaces can feel attraction!!!" bc be real honest.

How many aroace popular characters can ppl list that a regular person on the street is going to know? Bc I've heard all their arguments to invalidate their representation.

Jughead? Oh you mean Cole Sprouse who made out and got it on with Lili Reinhart playing Betty bc he found her sexy? Oh but in the old comics he's a gay character whose in denial. Yelena Boleva? Who? Oh that woman? She's hot she's just traumatized and needs to find the right person. Charlie Weasley? Oh he was only in the books? He was confirmed as aroace through a passive comment most ppl didn't know about from the author that never used the term? Luffy? You mean one of the most shipped characters in One Piece? No he's just an idiot/childish so he doesn't understand girls are pretty. Caduceus Clay? Sorry I didn't watch Critical Role whose that? Are you sure he's aroace? He feels gay to me.

I can list more ppl, but I'm sure most ppl couldn't.

I remember the whole discussion of the pan/bi representation argument of "Yes! We know pan/bi ppl can date the opposite gender. But straight ppl don't know about pan/bi nearly at all or don't accept it," so showing it as gay, who know the term more, until it's shown clearly the character is queer and not "confused straights" they then can have opposite gender attraction. Bc sooooo many pan/bi characters end up "straight" at the end of their show/book. Bc I remember when ppl refused to accept that Deadpool is pan bc of his wife and started freaking out when he dated a nonbinary person in the comics or helped that one genderqueer person he knew.

Representation is about showing to ppl what they're not understanding about the identity in the plainest sense of the words of the identity, then when there's enough rep to show they're not all the same, then you can have the ones that break the rules.

Alastor whether or not he wants to date doesn't matter. What matters is this whole situation blew out of proportion bc ppl refused to accept that some ppl don't feel comfy shipping him. Bc they see themselves in him and don't want that. BUT! Also ppl under the aro and ace umbrella also have no rep and wanted to see him breaking the stereotype they probs have yelled at them of "You can't have a partner you're aroace I forbid it" and wanted to see thru their own experiences how that would be done.

Here's the problem.... As someone who has read a lot of aroace headcanon fanfics as an aroace....... A lot of ppl who are allo don't realize aroace "crushes" are missing emotions... That's why they're aroace. And they'll write them like they're the same just "muted" or "needs to warm up" kinda thing. Or make the character's love "childish" to explain the lack of romance/sex. Which is messed up. And that's the problem here.

Alastor didn't need to be this blown out of proportion of a situation. The problem is ppl found him sexy and the classic "But aroace hot, they can't be aroace bc why hot?" discussion got brought back up without the gentle post format discussions and instead it was a lot of shippers on tiktok with tiny word counts arguing a complex issue.

Ppl should be allowed to ship whatever (except problematic I know yall too well), especially if they see themselves in the characters and especially if they have the same identity and want to explore that!!

The truth of the matter is this is such a huge issue that just keeps happening bc ppl are too used to fandom queer spheres where ppl already know aroace means "off the table" and so they want to play with qprs or grayromantics/sexuals not knowing what that entails bc there's sooooo lil aroace rep that actually explores being aroace and a lot of ppl don't know the basics, and even how very different aroace "off the table" is when you aren't the classic "uwu I'm just innocent and have no friends or importance to the plot so just ignore me and have me be adopted by one of the main couples as a 'kid' figure."

Not to mention that a lot of ppl still think ace means aroace. That aces can't date bc there's ppl who don't know that romantic and sexual attraction are different!

I'm just.... So tired. So very tired of having ppl shout at me what it means to be aroace and being unable to look up the lil aroace rep we have bc of this issue I've seen a million times is all.

[stan-rabelais-et-diderot]

#AroAceJugheadOrBust

I am glad the Riverdale show is over. To the people gushing about how the show was nonsensical, special & amazing, I would like to remind (or tell) that Jughead is canonically asexual aromantic.

There was initial enthousiasm in the aroace community at the annoncement of this show in 2016 & early 2017, especially because the actor Cole Sprouse was initially x supportive of an asexual Jughead, had read the comics & claimed to have respect for the decades-long original material indicating that Jughead was aroace (even before it was official confirmed in 2016 in the Chip Zdarsky comics). After those initial statements of support, Cole Sprouse never mentioned it again, as far as I know (& I looked) after 2017.

In 2017, there was a months-long campaign, with the hashtag #AroAceJugheadOrBust. We kept up hope, especially because at the time, it would have been the biggest piece of aroace representation ever seen on television, in a mainstream show no less. And we weren't hoping for something out of reach, they were adapting a comic where the best friend of the lead was consistently depicted as aroace, for decades. And we were told we would get a fair portrayal of the character.

Time passes, the show aired, Jughead initiated a kiss with Betty & Jughead got a girlfriend. At some point someeone involved in the show straight up said (I would cite the source but I don't remember well & I didn't bookmark it at the time, sorry) that the reason they gave the character a love interest was that otherwise it didn't make for a compelling or interesting story (I don't remember precisely, sorry).

I stewed in that a long time, thinking about how I'm one of the most interesting person I know, being aroace isn't boring, if they can't have a character being interesting without giving them a romance plot, that's them being terrible at their job...

When all our hopes were dashed, other people, many queer people started to show up & then like that show. Rooting for it. I saw praise for queer representation for bi or gay characters, but I didn't see any mention of the straight-washing of one of the main characters & how maybe some solidarity was warranted (how any potential good gay or bi rep in a minor character wouldn't make up for the straight washing of a main character).

As an aroace person, I wanted the show to fail, for the widespread outrage of the queer community condamning straight-washing to underwhelm any positive review.

That didn't happened this time. I hope the next time people try to erase aromantic or asexual identities of fictional characters in popular media, things are different & we do get that solidarity & support. I hope things get better.

[ozs-twink-boytoy]

"Riverdale ended on a polycule. Isn't that progressive??" Jughead aroaceness got erased for that to happen. You truly eat anything up, don't you?

[peacerisendove]

Big Ethel Energy Season 2 Episode 29

I'm reacting strongly to what feels like literal ace/aro erasure and honestly aphobia the more I think about it. Aromantic, asexual, and or aroace people are really just getting their shit kicked in the narrative of this comic and it's upsetting.

They made the antagonist/source of conflict in Ethel's Season 1 narrative Jughead, who in Season 1 was very strongly implied to be aroace, but now they're just backtracking on both him being ace and aro.

It's so sad and frustrating to see.

Look Mr. Lodge isn't generally viewed in positive terms. He's associated with and concerned with money, self-interest, and his businesses, but the fact we're just getting judgement calls without even seeing evidence of Hiram character or what even his goal is with running for city council once again forces the reader to side with Ethel and her friends.

I love Nancy and her character, and of course when it comes to these situations you want the underdog who works hard and clearly cares about the city to win an election, but I don't think the comic takes into account that to be a contender in a political elections you need experience and resources to win. This panel might portray that it's Nancy's actions or resolve that is what might lead to her potentially losing this election, but honestly I think that it's a lack of experience and resources in which to convince people to vote for her for Mayor.

Now this? After a whole fucking season of alluding and pretty much confirming in all ways except explicitly through the words that that Jughead is asexual and/or aromantic.

It feels like a retcon or wishy-washy writing in which the author purposefully kept Jughead's sexuality and romantic identity vague (aka did not explicitly state he was asexual and/or aromantic) in order to keep him open to potential future love interests. It feels like an insult because the way Jughead is written in the first season and in particular his explanation to Ethel that he has never wanted sex and never wanted anyone romantically (the only exception to that is Trula):

(S1, Episode 58)

Yes, sexuality is fluid, but that is not what is going on in this case.

His sexuality in Season 1, which very clearly reads as Ace and/or Aro is just swept aside. The author is back tracking on their own writing and it's so frustrating and insulting to see because the Ace and Aro representation that we got with Jughead in Season 1 wasn't even remotely good or positive because he is put as Ethel's central antagonist in her personal story and narrative because he was an eighteen year old boy who has sex with Ethel in order to fully understand that he did not have any interest in sex or romantically attracted to her.

The whole first season, if you look at Ethel and Jughead's conflict, is simply the vilifying of asexuality and those who are aromantic. That's it. That is the crux of Ethel's entire conflict.

She blames all of her romance-based troubles on this one moment and one person without once looking inward. Jughead should not be held accountable or vilified because he had sex.

-SIGH- It is just so goddamn upsetting that this is the narrative that was portrayed and one along the way said or thought that anything was wrong.

And you know what? This perspective is even more upsetting and disappointing because the comic appears or tries to be inclusive as we explicitly have gay characters, trans characters, lesbian characters, disabled characters, and more who are open in their identities, but asexuality and aromanticism don't even get an explicit mention. The words "asexuality," "aromantic," or "aroace" are not once mentioned in the comic. Jughead isn't even the only character who qualifies as aromantic. Trula is written in a way that suggests she's aromantic (Season 1, Episode 48; Trula after being described to pick up guys one after the other states that relationships don't interest her), and yet asexuality and aromanticism are utilized as a source of conflict, are treated as erasable, and simply not treated with the same respect or standard as other identities are mentioned in this comic.

As I have stated it's frustrating and infuriating as a reader and especially as a reader who cares about asexuality and aromantic identities and its representation.

There was more I had to say about this episode but honestly Ethel's elitism can take a back seat as I find the topic of how BEE represents, treats, and writes about asexuality and aromanticism insulting.

[clairecannot]

watching the murder mystery drama Riverdale rn its really bad but if jughead isn't aroace in this im going to be so angry

edit: just as I wrote this he kissed that Betty im fuming the aroace erasure is wild

[shychick-52]

3 characters that inspire you?

Jughead Jones (from all the comics, not the imposter from Riverdale). I love how he fully embraced how different he was and didn't care what others thought; he had so much confidence in just being himself. Instead of dating and chasing girls (or anyone; he wasn't into romance and didn't have raging horomones) like Archie and the rest of his friends and high-school peers, he was after a good meal/snack or a nap. (Fun fact- I found out I was ace through the character!) Jughead always told Archie how much simpler his own life is for not caring about relationships (it's gotten poor Arch into more trouble than it's worth), and it's a sentiment I echo for myself. I live for myself, and myself alone. Like Jug, I'll take a burger and a good nap any day (and like Jughead, I am a total foodie and love naps). I just wish I had Jug's confidence instead of second-guessing myself all the time; I have all this inner aphobia that I struggle with.

Murderbot from the book series The Murderbot Diaries is another aroace icon for me, and one who is very anxiety-prone, nd-coded, and anti-social- all which I can also relate to. Again, though, MB doesn't care what others think and has zero desire to change; on the one hand, it struggles to understand who and what it is, but at the same time it has no desire to be what it knows it isn't (I know that's a paradox, but MB is a complex character). I mean, I do wish I was a lot less anxious, but you know. XD

Data from Star Trek: The Next Generation is another nd-coded character. Data is an android who strives to learn and grow and be the best person he can be, and doesn't let his mistakes get him down, and that's something I try to do too. Being somebody of such low self-confidence, I struggle with that a lot however.

[mindofthemage]

Can't believe the Betty/Veronica Queerbait kiss isn't queerbaiting anymore, because (at least) one of them is actually queer. (As in its confirmed in the show)

Now please..... AroAce Jughead.

[aroaessidhe]

Hi so!!! Sorry if this is a really impossibly ambiguous and vague request, but I just had to ask for recommendations. I've really struggled to find aro/ace fiction I relate to, because almost all that I've read fit into one of 2 characters: fantasy story where the character is only incidentally a-spec and it doesn't seem to affect them at all, or extremely 'realistic' modern contemporary fiction where everyone's super neurotypical and comfortable with themselves. Do you know of any aro/ace (1/2)

books that go for a more... artistic tone, if that makes sense? Really sorta trying to think about what it means to be aspec, and how it affects your life, and create something really emotional with that? Because that's what I'm really missing, and what makes me feel so lonely as an aro/ace. For example, I really enjoyed Loveless, vol 2 of the Jughead revival, and Todd Chavez from Bojack Horseman. And... that's sorta it. I want an aroaceness that is weird but Meaningful, I guess??? Maybe...?;;;

Hi! I will try my best!

I guess I sort of know what you mean about being 'artistic' but am not sure if there's much that truly fits that - some that are introspective about being aroace, maybe not so much on the weird side though. (I agree that we're severely lacking in deep complex books About being aroace)

To be quite honest the very first thing that comes to mind is Koisenu Futari, which is not a book* - it's a jdrama about two aroaces deciding to live together and how being aroace affects their lives, and finding their passions in life. absolute comfort show, have watched multiple times, obsessed w it. (*well, it it originally a book but isn't translated to eng)

Am thinking more in the aro/aroace direction here, as there are definitely a bunch of ace books that go into detail a lot about how being ace affects their life - but it's often in relation to dating, which I assume you're not looking for. Most of these are still like, aspec-ness is just one of the aspects of the narrative, not the sole focus unfortunately

Mostly-contemporary stories, that deal with amatonormativity/aroace experiences:

Other People's Butterflies - this is similar to Loveless imo, in terms of being about a teen figuring out she's aroace

We Go Forward - novella about two young women who meet travelling in europe and become friends, one is aroace [this is free to read]

The Rhythm of My Soul - YA about two aroace dancers wanting to get into a prestigious romantic-ballet company; goes into their experiences of both figuring out their sexuality and experiences quite a bit. a bit of a thriller with a lot of ballet-school-drama , and the writing is a little messy imo but I did enjoy some aspects of it

Breasts and Eggs - adult literary fiction, the MC is ace, maybe arospec? (there is a bit of an almost-romance in one section) while it doesn't go deep into directly addressing aspec experiences, a lot of it is about the MC considering donor conception, and people not liking that she wants to have a child without having a partner, and similar experiences of womanhood/motherhood while not being interested in sex/relationships. I have mixed feelings about some aspects but it may be the closest to what you're looking for!

Summer Bird Blue - the main focus of the plot is family and grief, but part of the MCs journey is questioning if she's aroace

Funeral Girl - the MC is ace (and implied aro), her main journey is dealing with her extreme anxiety about death and the future, and while her being aspec is not really a focus, it feeds into that a little and is brought up from time to time. (this book emotionally destroyed me a bit lol)

Every Bird A Prince - this is middle grade, so it's focused more on the tween self-discovery side of being aro and amatonormativity, but I really loved it. (about half the plot is this, half is fantasy-ish)

Goddess Of The Hunt - this is a poetry collection about an aroace Artemis. obviously not super comprehensive since it's short and poetry but might be of interest! (it's been a while since I read it)

a few fantasy/genre books with aro characters that talk about aro experiences more than average, though of course it's still not the focus of the plot:

Fire Becomes Her - has a demiromantic MC who's getting out of a relationship and finds a QPR, so there's some discussion of aro experiences in the narrative

Royal Rescue - fantasy story with a tower-rescue matchmaking system that the aroace MC is forced into, but escapes and dismantles the system, so his experiences with amatonormativity are at the forefront (if a little dramatised)

The Grimrose Girls - contemporary fantasy, one of the 4 MCs is aroace and her storyline deals with her experiences and how it effects her, moreso in the negative so far (which I actually like, because as you've said so many books just have it incidentally mentioned)

Baker Thief - one of the two MCs is aro bi, and they get in a qpr with the other MC, so there's some exploration of identity there. there's other aro characters too. (see also the author's City of Spires series, which is high fantasy & has various aspec characters discussing their identities and life)

Not Even Bones (trilogy) - they never self-identify as aroacespec, but both MCs clearly are by book 3. it seems like they get together in book 2 but in the 3rd they're both like, actually lol I'm not attracted to you like that, I've just never been able to have a friend I care about this much before, lets stay together as friends, and talk a bunch about amatonormativity

there's definitely a bunch more of this kind of thing but my memory is hazy as to how much things are explored, and it's probably not quite what you're looking for, but hey!

hopefully there's something here that seems like it might be of interest! and if anyone else has suggestions please add, I'm not great at remembering fine details of how identity is explored and discussed if it's been years since I've read it

[aspecpplarebeautiful]

how doi accept being aro ace? I'm really struggling

I'm sorry you're having a hard time, Anon.

I definitely recommend seeking out ace/aro blogs to follow, both positivity blogs, but also just like regular people who happen to be ace or aro. You can also look into joining some ace/aro communities, so forums or discord servers (disboard is a good tool for finding discord servers), or whatever online communities you feel comfortable in. And even just lurking can be good, but participating and making friends is good too. You can also check and see if there's any in-person meetups near you, here.

Seeing other people like you who are complex interesting people, and getting to know people like you, etc. can really help you see being aroace and having aroace experiences feel normal.

Media is good too. And there's more ace/aro character now than ever before. I really like the Jughead 2015 run from Archie Comics, the Magnus Archives podcast and Elatsoe by Darcie Little Badger, which is a really fun YA book. But there's so much these days, especially books and podcasts. You can search for rec lists too and get results with a lot of choices.

And again it just helps you normalize being aroace more, and gives you characters you can connect to and relate to.

Is there anything around you making you feel bad about being aroace? See what you can do about either cutting back or cutting it out entirely. For example do the shows/movies/etc. you're following make a big deal about finding the one or how great sex is, etc.? Maybe consider not watching those shows until you're in a better spot, and instead try seeking out found family type shows. Is there someone in your life who talks a lot about sex/romance or their own sex/romantic life? See if you can figure out other interests of theirs and steer them onto that, or maybe cut back how much you're seeing them (you don't have to cut them off, but maybe it's a good time to take up a new hobby and be a bit busy for a while and just seeing them a little less often than usual until your brain is in a better place).

Any actively hateful stuff around you, definitely do what you can to cut that out of your life as much as you can. So if you're seeing anti-ace/aro stuff anywhere online, I really recommend unfollowing, blocking, even leaving that platform if that's what you have to do, because that stuff can really get in your head and have a bad effect on your self esteem and ability to accept yourself. If it's someone in your life you can't always cut them out, but do what you can to avoid contact or keep the topic somewhere else when you do have to interact with them.

Other than that just do your best. Pride month is coming up too next month, so make sure you check out some stuff then too, even if it's just online. It's a great time to find people who are making/sharing cool things related to ace/aro stuff too.

Accepting yourself isn't like flipping a switch, it's usually a gradual shift that happens bit by bit. But you get there, and the above can definitely help.

All the best, Anon! Good luck!