#Jon's lacks just a bit more common sense

[pain-is-too-tired]

Jonathan 'Jarchivist' Sims and Annabeth Chase would be best friends.

I stand by that.

[chocolatey-umbreon]

TMA Season 5 Live Blog

Episode 167 - Curiosity

This episode is about quite a few things at once, which confuses me a bit. Not that I think it’s bad or anything, it’s on me.

It starts with the question of whether Gertrude could have done a better job with this. To answer it Jon explains the story of her assistants, which turns the focus to this Emma. The title of the episode and the purpose of Emma’s experiments being to know more about the Fears’ effects suggest that the Eye is what is behind all of it. But then there’s also the Spider.

First of all there’s this line:

When Emma came to tell Gertrude what had happened, she found the first of the cobwebs in her hair, the ones she would wash from it every morning for the rest of her life, and Gertrude mourned the first of many losses and did not suspect the truth.

I was confused because I wasn’t sure who was the one with cobwebs in her hair. Because Gertrude’s tie with the Spider is also brought up in the episode. By the sentence structure and how the focus is on Emma right now I understand it’s her.

Then there’s also this:

And all through it Gertrude could not see what was happening. And certainly the Spider smoothed things, elided questions, wiped away evidence, but it barely had to. Far better to feed Gertrude a steady string of plans to foil and rituals to derail.

Which. Like. Yes, if the Spider is behind Emma’s actions it makes sense that she would also contribute to Gertrude not becoming aware of them. But there’s also this additional info that the Spider was also actively leading Gertrude to the rituals. Which is interesting. The whole reason for that wasn’t just to keep her distracted from what her assistant was doing. So what was the goal?

Again, the Eye and the Spider seem to have much in common but it’s not easy for me to tell when they’re working with or against each other. I guess they’re both doing their own thing but often happen to strive for either the same or the opposite as each other.

It’s finally clear that it’s all the Spider when Gertrude gets confirmation about what was going on from Agnes.

At the end we go back to Gertrude and conclude that she couldn’t trust anyone after this and that lack of a purpose is what wouldn’t allow her to succeed in this new world. But I don’t know. It’s interesting to think of Gertrude like this. Like she’s hardcore and practical and cold but it has always been clear that she had room for sentiment, at least from her relationship with Gerry. It’s still weird to picture her breaking when she’s all alone and resigning to ��ruling her domain.” From what I understand she never took any joy in being an avatar of the Eye, and avoided her abilities as much as she could. She didn’t stop and revel in her knowledge or curiosity, she just made plans and executed them, so I can’t really picture her ruling over the Eye’s domain now. But I do understand how the catastrophe could change everything and could break anyone, especially someone with no one to rely on.

Or would her domain be something else, not the same as Jon? Like with the desolation or something? … I don’t know I’ll leave the thinking to smarter people and just wait and see what else the next episodes tell me.

[goldaegontargaryen]

Aegon was happy to have met the lord here as opposed to being formally introduced to him at the Red Keep.  At court, there were certain proprieties to observe and every interaction was closely watched by anyone who happened to be around.  It was hard to get a sense of a man in that type of environment.  Out here, however, Aegon was more in his element.  People could as easily put up fronts in both a tavern and the Red Keep, but the lack of expected formality often brought out a side of people Aegon was more used to evaluating.  He also enjoyed the fact that if the urge overtook him, it was perfectly acceptable to punch someone in the face if he so desired.  Lord or commoner, the playing field was always a bit more even down in King’s Landing’s streets.  Never equal, Aegon could acknowledge that, but as leveled as it was likely to become.  

“It does seem that everyone I meet has already heard of me in one way or another.  Sometimes that’s a blessing and other times less so, but it’s nice to meet you, Jon Swann.”  Aegon smiled crookedly at the other man, already feeling himself relax in the familiar energy of the tavern.  “I was bit by a swan once when I was a child.  I hope you prove to be a bit less terrorizing than your namesake.”

One of the aforementioned blessings of everyone knowing his identity was that Aegon was often bought or given free drinks by those around him.  He had learned long ago rejecting such a gesture usually brought offense, so he accepted the offered drink easily.  He took a sip of the fresh ale and sighed.  Truly, it tasted terrible, but it was strong and familiar.  Exactly what he needed to calm himself after a long day of court scheming and formality. 

At Swann’s explanation for why he was out dressed as a commoner, Aegon snorted out a laugh.  Distantly, he knew he should reign himself in a bit.  Just because he wasn’t at court didn’t mean it would be wise to lose all decorum, but he was so tired of always keeping a polite smile on his face and pretending he cared about the conversations of the random people around him who certainly could not care less for him.  He had come out here to be able to drop the filter for once.  “That’s sweet,” he replied in a slight patronizing tone, though he did think it was kind.  But it also seemed a bit pointless.  The commoners were more than willing to bring their problems straight to his door, so he saw little need to go to them.  “Though I’m a bit too attached to my cloak of nobility to want to give it up.”  Granted, he wasn’t sure it would even be possible for him to move through a crowd unknown.  As had been pointed out, Aegon rarely needed introductions and was supremely recognizable.  Even without being able to see his hair, his eyes were still quite distinctive along with his face from being seen so often around King’s Landing’s various streets.  

“Both, I suppose.  I find politics to be something that was thrust upon me instead of something I would have chosen for myself.  The formalities and ambitious nobles exhaust me.  People might try to use me out here, but at least they’re honest about it.”  Aegon took another sip of ale, studying Swann closely.  “Where does House Swann hail from, anyway?  The Westerlands, isn’t it?”  Aegon knew House Swann actually resided in the Stormlands, but there was nothing that loosened men’s tongues faster than a sense of superiority and a belief that Aegon was too stupid to see through their facades.

The Prince and the Commoner Lord: with @jonswann

A breeze whipped through the streets of King’s Landing, ruffling the strands of Aegon’s white blonde hair as it passed.  The moon was full and the night was young.  Aegon intended to take full advantage of it.  

He enjoyed living on Dragonstone more than he’d expected to, yet he couldn’t help but sometimes yearn for the nightlife of King’s Landing.  He certainly didn’t feel the need to fall back into the complete debauchery of his youth, but there was a certain carefree feeling he couldn’t find anywhere else but here.  Even though almost everyone who frequented these streets knew who he was, out here he didn’t have to live up to being Prince Aegon Targaryen.  Nobody expected him to be polite or wise, he could simply exist without fear of reproach.  

Torches had been lit along the street to push back the darkness and most of the establishments had thrown their doors wide open to expose the laughter and life occurring within their walls.  Aegon had visited almost every tavern and brothel on this street at one time or another and the familiarity of it all soothed him after the chaos and political machinations he’d been forced to endure at the Red Keep.  The most manipulation he had to worry about here were the winks and cheerful calls from the girls standing in the doorway of a nearby brothel.  

Tonight though, a brothel wasn’t his goal.  In fact, it hadn’t been for a very long time.  Perhaps it was a maturity that came with age or simple love and respect for his wife, but Aegon didn’t find the pleasure in women that he’d once sought out almost compulsively.  Deep down, he thought it might be because he was happy with his life and his family.  Melancholy could still curl its claws into his chest, but he no longer felt the persistent need for distraction of any sort.  

That being said, Aegon still enjoyed the distraction provided by a tavern and a few cheap beers.  The parties in the Red Keep were so uptight and stuffy that he craved a place that allowed him to let loose and focus on nothing but himself.  He ducked into a smaller tavern on the edge of the street, drawn in by the crackling fire and the loud cheers of a group of men who were playing dice at a table near the door.  

As Aegon stepped in, he surveyed the room.  Besides the large group of dice players and a few lone men at the bar, the place was empty.  However, it was still early and Aegon expected the tavern to quickly fill with more patrons as the night wore on.  

Aegon made his way to the bar, taking a seat next to a dark haired man in simple clothing.  Normally, he would have ignored him completely, but something about his face sparked a sense of recognition.  His first instinct was to think he had met this man on one of his previous revelries, but he couldn’t pull up the memory.  It was only when the man turned his head slightly more in his direction that Aegon caught sight of his eyes and true recognition struck him.  He wasn’t completely sure of the man’s name, but he knew he was lord of some house or another.  Something that started with an S, he thought.  Perhaps Swyft or maybe Swann.  Aegon hadn’t actually ever been introduced to him, but he’d seen him around the Red Keep.  

“What are you doing here?” Aegon asked, the words tumbling out before he could censor the slight judgment and confusion in his voice.  It wasn’t his presence in a tavern that shocked him.  Aegon was many things, but he wasn’t a hypocrite.  Instead, it was the man’s common clothing and demeanor that surprised him.  Aegon himself was wearing fine clothes and a clearly expensive dark cloak, and with his light blonde hair, there was no mistaking that Aegon could be anything but a prince of House Targaryen.  “You’re a lord, correct?  I’ve seen you at the Red Keep.” 

[reginarubie]

LF and Marillion shared many similarities. Both are favorites of Lysa and Robin. Lysa gifts Marillion Jon's pet falcon while she married LF irking lords of Vale. Marillion is a harp player while LF claim that harps are stronger as sword. Marillion tried to rape Sansa and LF molesting her, she even compared him with Marillion. Myranda had slept with Marillion while thinking about marrying LF. Marillion called Sansa a rose while LF steal away Sansa enacting Bael and the Winter Rose.

Ciao anon!,

Good point. Marillion and LF have many things in common. They're both favourites of Lysa even against the other lords (who she spurns) and she gifts Marillion her late husband pet falcon, plus a golden bracelet and favours him over the others — even when he insults her suitors and predates on young girls to the point she even sends away people on his behalf — in the same way she favours LF for whom she has killed her husband and caused a war between Starks and Lannisters — sending the letter to Cat accusing the Lannisters — and whom she marries spurning all the other lords of the Vale who were offering their hand.

Though I must say I think that the quote about the harp LF makes is not supposed to make us think of Marillion while more of Sansa.

A harp can be as dangerous as a sword, in the right hands.

— Sansa VI, ASOS

I think this is supposed to recall to the reader something the show told us when Tyrion crowned Bran, that stories is what unites people. This is supposed to remind the readers that a harp (an object used for delight, which recounts a story) can be as dangerous as a sword, because mockery, rumour and truth can be as dangerous for a man as a sword if they are wielded by the right person. This hints, imo, to Sansa using her soft power and her voice (accusing him) to bring forth LF' demise. The same way the hidden dagger, instead, refers in my opinion to Arya, because no one is even suspecting Arya might still be alive and training to be a faceless assassin (hidden dagger pressing from behind that you never see coming). I theorise (I even put it in one of my stories — or several, truly it's something I think very canonic and thus use it often as a metaphor) that these two quotes are supposed to be about the Stark girls: Sansa the harpist and Arya the sword.

A bit like Doran-grass to Oberyn-viper (the grass shielding the viper until it's time to strike), I think Sansa and Arya (both of whom need each other, and both whom Ned needs per his own words — this will apply to the other Stark men, bear in mind) will be the harpist and the sword. One will weave the tale and lay the trap using soft means the other will execute the plan (a bit like in the show they had them collaborate to bring down LF with Sansa lulling him in a sense of false security before they put him on trial and Arya executed him); I think the show lacking the perspective of the books (which have this quote) used another which is essentially wrong with the Stark way, because after they've killed LF Arya says «I was just the executioner, you pass the sentence» and we know House Stark lives by the Old way of «who passes the sentence should swing the sword»; also because Sansa did pass the sentence and swung the sword (there is a reason why, though Arya was depicted as her arm — physically — they had Sansa stand up and look at LF' eyes as he was executed because the whole northern way of passing the sentence-swinging the sword is because this way the executioner who looks the victim/criminal in the eye is also the same one who passes the sentence because as per Ned Stark's words «if you cannot look in his eyes, maybe he does not deserve that punishment».

So to me, both the quote about the harp as well as the quote about the hidden dagger pressing at you from the back when you never see it coming are actually a foreshadowing of the Stark sisters coming together and using their different trainings and abilities to destroy their enemies. But that is strictly my interpretation.

Though I am pretty convinced about it, so I never really envisioned that quote being specifically about Marillion, it's also intended to nudge us to the importance of the tales ones says, tales which have different weight based off on who says them, thanks to their credibility, but they have a broader meaning that to me hints toward both Stark girls.

And yes, Randa slept with Marillion (not knowing what kind of man he was — to the point that after his imprisonment she apologises to Sansa/Alayne because she didn't know who he was and knew only he sung sweetly and was talented with his fingers) and she is considering marrying LF (also without knowing who he is; or in this case knowing perfectly well and trying to use it to get more power; though I am convinced the Royces who were clamouring because they were forbidden to join Robb Stark' cause won't forsake the Starks in this case).

And, I'm never over the fact that Petyr Baelish literally stole Sansa Stark from KL, the same Sansa who is associated with the rose symbolism (romanticism, love, sweetness and tenderness — Stark girls being stolen and being symbolised by a rose) and for whom Marillion was composing a song titled the “roadside rose”. I mean the parallel is staggering: lord Stark's daughter was stolen from her bed by Bael who had asked for the most beautiful rose of lord Stark's garden which he left on her bedding before they hid in the crypts and she gave him a son; Lyanna Stark was given a crown of winter roses at the Tourney of Harrenhal being named Queen of love and beauty by Rhaegar who later abducted her (stole her — persuaded her to come with him) and hid her away in a tower in Dorne, where she gave him a son. Both women (the first Stark girl and Lyanna) died after the death of their captors (lady Stark threw herself from the parapets of WF because her son had brought back from battle the head of the father; and Lyanna died in childbed after Rhaegar was killed by Robert) both ladies are hinted/rumoured to have loved their abductors (I still maintain that something more complicated was afoot with Rhaegar and Lyanna and that she was at first persuaded maybe, blinded by love, but that later she became a prisoner — because the only real quote we have of her is that she's fiercely loyal to House Stark and I refuse to believe she simply forgot all about that all of sudden just because Rhaegar came along); both children became liege of the North or king in the North and both will face wars (the son of Vael the bard against his own father — Jon against his own aunt?) anyway you catch my drift. I honestly am afraid that LF who is molesting Sansa as you say and is keeping her sequestered for her own good trying to isolate her to have her completely dependent from him (like I discussed in this ask)will try to either marry her himself or molest her even further; I hope Sansa, who has escaped rape already twice (and we know Martin loves his threes) escape these molestations as well and manages to come back home and that her future child will become, after her, king in the North, as Sansa has been known to break the tradition of those who came before her — she was sequestered in a castle by a prince/king to whom she was betrothed like her aunt Lyanna but managed to escape; she has been accused of high treason and murder against the king (of the latter she is innocent of high treason not so much as she has had a key role in the northern independence since the moment she tried to kill Joffrey) like her lord father but escaped any unwarranted and unjust punishment about it — so I really am holding out hope she will break this tradition of Stark girl being stolen, taken and gotten pregnant by their abductors to then die after them for however briefly or longly they managed to outlive them (by little as both lady Stark and Lyanna died after their abductors were killed off in battle — always near some banks of rivers; Rhaegar died at the Trident while Bael died at the Frozen Ford).

Baelish know this, your end is coming; because Sansa dear has the habit of breaking past tradition and outliving her abusers and you won't be any different.

As always thank you for your ask!, and hope you enjoyed my take on this. As always I wish you a very nice day!

[cellsshapedlikestars]

hii previous anon here!

no need for trigger warnings it just really gets me in my feelings so compliments to the chef 🤌🏼

i think its so sad because there's no turning back time, no matter how much they would work on their relationship and even if they did get as close as a true family, alayne would still be there occupying a space that was meant to be sansa's, having grown up with an amazing support system that she lacked, even though it was "rightfully" hers? no shade at alayne. every child deserves a supportive and loving family. i think its sad that they didnt feel her absence because someone filled her place while she definitely felt the absence of love, if that makes sense. i feel like no matter how much she integrates into the family, the story could never have a truly happy ending.

i dont know if you know the story "a past worth having" where sansa is abducted as a child and grows up as baelish's daughter. i think its really similar but the one thing that makes it hurt less to read (for me personally) is that the starks did feel her absence and although they are a big family, there was still a place for her to fill. weird analogy but imagine a dinner table: sansa in apwh would join a dinner table where everyone is sat and there'd be an empty chair for her but the sansa of this story would see everyone sat at a full table and catelyn jumping up to get a chair and jam it between two others 😭

i know the message of your one shot was that there could still be place for sansa if she wanted it, that they'd just have more to love with alayne and sansa but i definitely think it would be difficult to just become part of a family that never knew you existed after 20 years rather than be reunited with a family that already had a bond with the thought of her

okay i am SO SORRY for ranting on your inbox like this😭 i dont know why im so hung on this story. its a good thing you usually write happy endings because your sad stories result in lengthy essays like this i guess 😂

Don't apologize for ranting, anon!

I completely understand what you mean by all this and it's sort of the point, Sansa even says it herself to Jon - in the stories she used to read, the lost princess was never replaced.

But think of it this way, maybe. Plenty of people have shitty childhoods and still go on to lead happy, fulfilling lives. Plenty of people create a found family, in their late teens, early twenties, maybe even later and find that just as fulfilling. Sansa will grow up, she'll have a whole new family to give her the love and support she was missing. She'll find common ground with Alayne, who herself has to deal with the fact that her birth father doesn't care one bit about her, while Sansa's birth family wants everything to do with her.

She'll fall in love, have her own children, start her own family. She'll love those children the way she missed out on for sixteen years. She'll love them the way she learned to when she finally found the Starks.

I don't know if any of this helps, but that's my version of this fic's future.

(oh, and for anyone who hasn't read a past worth having, go do it!)

[fridayyy-13th]

anyway hi i’m back (totally not three hours since the last addition to this post) to talk about MAG 080 a little bit more

bc like literally up until this point in the series Elias has given zero indication that he’s a villain of any sort. he’s just…there, in the background, for most of the first two seasons. the reason he jumped so high up on Jon’s suspect list in the first place was because he asked after his health, not because of anything seedy that Jon could see.

but as soon as Leitner, who has known Elias for much longer, is alone with him, one of the first things Elias does is threaten to kill him. no pretense, no threatening tone, just if you reach for one of your books, i’ll kill you. you told him more than i wanted him to know. and like!! so much of fanon makes him out to be like, a 90s disney villain’s style of evil (that is, queercoded in a way to synonymize him with Predatory and Bad, but that’s a topic for another day), but really he’s just a 200 year old guy with fucked up morals and way too much curiosity. motherfucker left Barnabas Bennett to die, “not because [Jonah] lacked affection for [him],” but because he was curious to see what would happen! and now he’s curious to see if marking a person with all of Smirke’s 14 will make them able to pull off a successful ritual! and since Leitner would get in the way, make it easier for Jon to realize what was going on (therefore making being marked easier for Jon to avoid), he just killed him. as one does. i guess.

like. if i remember right, doesn’t he view using his own Eye-given powers as excessive, especially offensively? sure yeah he loves inciting fear in others, he’s been doing it for 200 years out of devotion to his patron, and yeah he can be a smug bastard man (and often is; see literally all of MAG 160), but idk i just think fanon tends to…de-nuance? un-nuance? simplify his specific type of villainy because it’s less complex to write (and therefore less work to do so) and makes it easier to fit him into those incorrect quote thingies.

idk. oh yeah i’ve thought about how Sasha and Elias have that deep curiosity (read: affinity for the Eye) in common, but the difference between them lies in Sasha putting herself in danger to find answers, while Elias puts others in danger to do so. Sasha wanted to protect her friends, Elias ultimately discarded some of those whom he cared for the most. two sides of the same Eye-coin. Jon’s right beside Sasha on that coin, too, though his curiosity doesn’t run as deep, in my mind. moreso, he wants understanding, not so much knowledge, though they often go hand-in-hand. idk does that make sense??

hhhghgfhgfhggh. i’m at the end of season two in my relisten, specifically the end of MAG 077, and the end of 076 nearly had me crying. Sashaaaaaa i miss youuuuuuu aaaaaaaaaaaaaaugh

am i ready for the rest of this season? Definitely Not. am i gonna keep listening anyway? most certainly.

[ectonurites]

Yall are jealous because tim cant keep a steady boyfriend and has 0 gay kisses! Jonjay will continue to prosper

people not necessarily being in love with a pairing between two characters that’ve only known each other for four total issues doesn’t necessarily need to have an ulterior motive my dude djshshsh

like first of all I personally do like jonjay, I have nothing against it. when I said ‘I Understand’ I was mainly agreeing with the ‘we are all desperate for queer content even if its not necessarily the exact queer content we want’ sentiment because i’ve been there before plenty

and just the… ‘cant keep a steady boyfriend’ is…? Tim has not had a focus issue on himself since he accepted going on a date with Bernard (because Gotham is a hot fucking mess rn and its an ‘all local bats on deck’ situation) and we know his next focus issue is going to have to do with him trying to be a good partner with Bernard, the first boy he has ever tried to date. Like… in what way does what you said make sense?

Also frankly, and I genuinely mean this not just from a ‘oh you like Tim more than Jon’ standpoint, but after reading Superman: Son of Kal-El #5… I liked the way Tim’s coming out was handled way better 🤷‍♂️

Like. I mean this from a storytelling viewpoint. Having the jonjay kiss spoiled ahead of time, and how abruptly the scene ends (like, I think the build up bit to it was really good, I liked Jay’s whole little speech and the placement of the kiss itself worked well, but it just felt like we were missing a page with their like… reactions to it happening? Or any sort of emotional insight on the moment, the lack of narration boxes in that whole scene really stood out to me) really hurt the story. Like it was still a sweet moment, but I (and many others, this is a common reaction i’ve been seeing all day from plenty of people who really like the pairing so far) feel like it was just missing something. Versus the element of surprise in Tim’s story (we didn’t know for sure what to expect when Urban Legends #6 was coming) and the fact that we got so much of Tim’s internal monologue/emotional insight as he was figuring things out really helped that story.

Idk I just think there’s more to thinking about quality and content of stories and pairings and things than just…counting how many kisses happen lmao

[ramblings-of-a-mad-cat]

Stannis/House Baratheon stan here. For what it's worth, I don't think he'll have anything to do with Shireen's burning in the books. Book Stannis was not in on the plan to kill Renly/doesn't know he played any part. Also when Edric Storm escapes Stannis is secretly relieved. You're right that he got ruined in the adaptation. Stephen Dillane's acting is the only good thing about Show-Stannis. My guess is either that Ramsay will murder Shireen to mock Stannis and the Lord of Light, or Melisandre will perform the ritual behind his back.

You know, I'm glad to hear it. 

Because there are a handful of scenes where I feel like I'm supposed to like Stannis and support his claim for the Iron Throne. Like, the scene when he offers to naturalize Jon. So few characters actually show Jon any respect, at least among the Highborn. (Not counting his siblings.) I felt my own respect for Stannis going up in that scene, just a little bit. Davos clearly worships the ground that he walks on but much like Ned Stark, his opinion is normally a good indicator of whether or not another character is trustworthy. At a guess, I feel like Davos didn't take his Knighting for granted because it happened at the same time he lost his fingers? Still, I can't say I'd feel that close to the man who was responsible for both.

Let's talk about kin-slaying. Renly was a rival for the throne. It would have come to blows between them no matter what, I understand that. And while the use of magic to assassinate him is taboo...I don't know, it just doesn't feel nearly as dirty as say, violating guest right. It probably prevented bloodshed overall. Still...that was his brother. I know the three Baratheon brothers have never really gotten along, but...still. How salty is Stannis over not getting Storm's End? I am glad to hear that this was presumably Melisandre's doing entirely in the books, though if Stannis doesn't know what happened...he's less of a villain but much more of a fool, if that makes any sense. He's completely under her thumb. Still, I can also understand how embittered he probably feels at his lack of support. I mean, if Robb and Renly had just backed him from the start, he'd no doubt have had the numbers to take King's Landing during the Battle of Blackwater. I feel like that isn't lost on him.

People in the show keep talking about how he has the "personality of a lobster" and how he "never wanted any friends." Which is coming back to bite him now that he's making a claim for the Iron Throne. Renly and Stannis are like Joffrey and Tommen. They're stark opposites and this gives both of them strengths and weaknesses when it comes to ruling. The one thing Renly has over Stannis is popularity, and that's for a reason. In Stannis' defense, he's right - the throne belongs to him in accordance with the Baratheon dynasty. I'm skeptical of his claim that he doesn't want it and only acts out of duty, but I don't fault him for trying to take the throne. I do feel like he gets way ahead of himself by declaring himself King and acting as though he is one before he sits on the Iron Throne...but hey, he's hardly the only character to do this. (Looking at you, Daenerys of the Dozen Titles.)

I also don't hold it against Stannis that he converts to the Lord of Light religion. All faiths are valid. We see that people can support this religion and still be chill about it - just look to the Brotherhood without Banners. We also see that people can subscribe to other religions like the more common Faith of the Seven, and take it way too far, like the Sparrows do. The problem is, Melisandre is one of those people who takes faith much too far. I still think Stannis has way, way too much faith in her. It's not even entirely about morals - he makes a good point that Aegon the Conquerer used dragons to take the Seven Kingdoms, so why shouldn't he be allowed to use the Lord of Light's magic? To which I say, yeah, you're right. That's fair. But he gives Melisandre too much power. I also have an issue with "sacrificing" (read: murdering) people for religious reasons, or even to cast spells.

I hope to god that he doesn't kill Shireen in the books. Because after he did that...look, I was never a big fan of him even up to that point in the show. But I still understood that he was basically supposed to be a good guy and naturally, I was rooting for him when it came to the upcoming fight with the Boltons. But after he murders Shireen? Ramsay could have given him the "Reek" treatment and I wouldn't have cared. I wouldn't wish that on anyone but I also wouldn't have shed any tears for Stannis if it had happened to him, if that makes any sense. Same goes for Melisandre. I'll never get over her deflection when Davos confronts her about killing Shireen. "So did her father. So did her mother." At that point I paused the episode and literally said aloud. "Yeah, so? They're dead. You're not. Can we fix that please?" Ugh, Melisandre is a whole other discussion by herself...

The other thing about Stannis that has always kind of made me cringe, low-key, is all of the nicknames that the fandom gives him. Notably "Stannis the Mannis" like...it's fine the first time, but there are people I've come across who literally refer to him as such every single time they mention him. Then again, that one isn't nearly as stupid as calling Robert "Bobby B" I just...I'm not saying anyone is stupid if they use these nicknames, but I am saying that I lose years of my life when I hear them. Might just be a personal thing. I don't know, I feel like both Stannis and Robert are idealized and so often have their flaws downplayed. Especially Robert. His willingness to kill children is something I cannot ignore. Stannis actually does kill his own daughter, but everyone seems to think that Robert would have done the same to his daughter, and his sons, if he'd learned the truth about their paternity. Not to mention, he wasn't the most adept ruler. It's easy enough to say that the realm was fine under his reign, but he ruled in peacetime for the most part. Given how he never attended the Small Council meetings, we can assume that Jon Arryn was the real ruling power anyway. Robert's main contribution seems to have been racking up a truckload of debt for the crown - thereby giving Tywin Lannister yet more power.

But that's not say Robert is a terrible person either. It is only fair to point out that in the case of his children, and of Jon Snow, he never found out the truth. So we can't say for certain what he would have done, he was never given the chance to speak for himself on those subjects. And while he may have only rebelled against the Targaryens because they offended him...I do appreciate his loyalty to the Starks, and the Mad King's crimes against Ned's family are as good a reason as any to say "Enough is enough." We never see him interact with Lyanna, and while it's clear that he's idealized her...it's not clear how much of that is a conscious choice. The Three Eyed Raven says "Robert's Rebellion was built on a lie." But...did Robert know that? Did he know that Lyanna wasn't kidnapped? That she eloped with Rhaegar out of love? When he talks about how Rhaegar "took Lyanna away from him" is that jealousy, or does he genuinely think Lyanna was a victim? He's long dead by the time the show reveals the truth of the matter, so it's a little ambiguous. Either way, he was not ready to be married to someone else and Cersei was made to suffer the the pain of Robert's heartbreak over another woman. Look, Cersei is despicable, I hate her more than any other character on the show...but if her version of events is to be believed, she was making a genuine effort at the start, and Robert never bothered to try, or treat her with any respect at all.

[ladycatofwinterfell]

I interpreted that Catelyn scene as if Jon didn't exist, her family would not have faced tragedy. Yes, she was blaming herself for not loving Jon but she was also indirectly blaming Jon for even existing. I also hated the part where she said her love with Ned was better than a passionate love affair in the words. As if being married off with a bridal price, passed from father to husband like an object is better than genuinely falling in love. I never liked Catelyn and it's not because she has strong opinions or because she started the war or whatever bs people hate her for I just think she's kinda...in her own head?? She lacks perspective tbh like she can't put herself in other people's shoes. Like when she tells Renly and Stannis: just get over it your brothers, I cringed because they obviously do not care about their relationship and only care about being king. They were raised differently than you Cat! I get that she's a victim of the patriarchy and she is coping so I really try to give her the benefit of the doubt but idk maybe I'm not mature enough for that. When characters like Brienne and Sansa exist, it makes Catelyn look bad (that scene in the books when Cat asks Edmure why are all the peasants here is yikes!). That being said, the fact that she has flaws makes her compelling. Also don't get me wrong, I do not think she is an awful person and I DO NOT blame her for ignoring Jon, that's all on Ned. Sometimes I think I dislike her because I kinda see myself in her. I have tried so hard to like her because her haters suck but I just can't.

It’s completely fine, anon, you don’t have to like Cat. As long as you don’t act like an ass about it you can dislike any character you want, I don’t judge you. Sometimes one simply doesn’t vibe with certain characters for different reasons. I don’t necessarily agree with you but I like that you explain your reasons instead of just going “catelyn sucks because she’s mean” as I have seen a lot people do. Also, I genuinely really like this ask as it made me think a lot, so thank you, anon.

The rest will be under the cut because I got carried away with my answer and it got a lot longer than I had initially planned

And now, before I start explaining my view on this, I want to say that I’m no expert at analyzing media or anything else. I’m a fan of the asoiaf books, and I have watched got, that’s it. These are just my views on Cat and the parts that were mentioned in this ask. If anyone disagrees or would like to come with a different perspective, feel free to do so, seeing different views on a topic is good for everyone.

I’m going to assume you mean the motherless child scene, and from that I didn’t get the feeling that she blamed Jon as she not once mentioned him negatively in that scene. He was just a poor innocent child. She repeatedly said that she herself was a terrible person though, which conveys the message that she blamed no one but herself for how the situation turned out and found herself responsible for it. In other scenes we see her acting cold towards Jon, but in this particular scene she doesn’t seem to be angry at him at all, she’s only angry with herself. This in turn makes it seem like she actually is to blame and that she should have loved him, which is wrong. She had no responsibility to take care of her husband’s illegitimate love child. Though in show canon I thought of it as her trying to find a reason for why everything that did happen happened, because she had a hard time making sense of it. She looked back at things she had done that could have been considered wrongdoings and wondered if maybe she could have prevented the deaths of her husband and (as far as she knew) children.

You also mentioned the stone by stone scene. I rewatched it now, and I can sort of see what you mean as she can be interpreted as a bit judgmental in that scene. However, her intention wasn’t to tell Robb about how her love was a supreme love, it was to try to get him to understand that an arranged marriage could turn out good. He had to marry a Frey because that was arranged for him and bad things could happen to him and his cause if he didn’t, so she tried to make him believe in that a marriage to a Frey girl he didn’t know could be a good marriage. This by explaining that her arranged marriage was good. Fine, she didn’t immediately fall in love with her husband, but she slowly came to love him over the years and that could be the cause in Robb’s marriage as well.

What we also need to remember in regards to that scene is that that’s the way marriage works in Westeros. If you’re highborn you don’t marry for love, you have a marriage arranged for you for the sake of forming an alliance between two families. That’s not better than genuinely falling in love, but that’s the way it works. In this case it’s even more important since Frey is so prickly and might pull the rug from under Robb’s feet if he feels insulted. And Cat wants her son to see that, wants him to understand that it is dangerous to break a that important alliance. She tries to get him on a safer path than the one he’s going down. But she also wants him to know that he can be happy in an arranged marriage. She tells him about her and Ned to explain that it is possible for him to learn to love his bride, so that he might reconsider his choice.

Now to a quick one. I agree, Cat didn’t start the war. She took Tyrion hostage because based on the info she had he had tried to murder her son. Tywin “war criminal” Lannister started the war by sending men to pillage and destroy the Riverlands

On the next one I’m actually inclined to agree. Catelyn is a bit in her own head. On top of that she’s very stubborn, which makes it more apparent. She tends not to see things from other perspectives than her own, that is definitely one of her flaws. It doesn’t make her a bad person, but it is a flaw, and I can see why some people would have a hard time with that particular flaw. Though she’s not always in her own head, several times we are shown that she has a nose for politics and is actually quite good at understanding other people and their wants. She has perspective on several situations, and can change her mind if things changes or doesn’t turn out as planned.

When it comes to the conflict between Renly and Stannis I really get her frustration. Yes, she had trouble understanding their conflict and found it ridiculous as she was raised and lived by the words “Family, Duty, Honor” and the mindset that family always comes first no matter what. But at that point I think most people would share her thoughts, as she was in a situation where she had started to become desperate. She wanted them to stop fighting each other and understand that they needed to fight together against the Lannisters, who were everyone’s common enemy. This with good reason, they killed her husband and as far as she knew still had both her daughters. Of course she wanted them to stop their feud and unite for the cause of defeating the Lannisters.

I’m going to agree on the next one as well. Cat lives in a patriarchal, classist society and buys into that because that’s all she knows, no one can deny that she has a classist and patriarchal mindset. That’s what she was raised by, that was what she was taught. Cat is in many senses the perfect lady by Westerosi standards. But despite believing in the patriarchal society she’s also at times thoroughly frustrated by it, as we see when she starts losing her influence as an advisor after Ned dies. It’s an interesting internal conflict, and as you said, she’s coping. You mentioned Brienne and Sansa as examples of characters that make Cat look bad in this sense. I don’t agree with that, I think these three characters cope with the patriarchal society in different ways although Brienne has a much more sympathetic way to do so in the eyes of modern readers. Cat definitely isn’t innocent of having spread those views, as she tries to make sure her children live by them, but she’s also not the devil here.

But yes, although she doesn’t call them peasants, that scene doesn’t look great. I won’t deny that either, because it’s true. All the highborn characters, yes even your fave no matter who that is, are classist. And that’s not me trying to defend Cat, that’s just the truth.

As for your ending, yes, her flaws makes her a very compelling character. It’s what makes her interesting, perfect characters are painstakingly boring. She’s not an awful person, and she’s not to blame for the situation with Jon. That one’s definitely on Ned.

You’re also right in that her haters very often suck.

Thanks for your ask, this was very interesting and I hope to see you in my inbox again in the future!

[janiedean]

Amazing how you can erase and twist everything someone says and not even bother to check things before launching in your 1000 words answer where you repeat the same things over and over again. When I say “Theon’s story is about destroying death”, I AM talking about his trauma and abuse. I’m not saying that Theon is a superhero, I’m saying that Theon’s story is literally about surviving and saying no to the dying of light, he’s always been trapped between life and death. How is that less meaningful than Jon being AA just because he’s special. Jon is stereotypical, not matter how much you deny it. He is the bastard son of the “good” Ned Stark that everyone seems to venerate, he becomes important, he’s actually a prince, and heir to the kingdom, he’s going to come back from the dead and apparently it’s not enough because he’s also AA. Also “I search for AA and see only Snow”, how is that not a red flag? Didn’t you think that it could be about Ramsay hiding Theon? I didn’t say that everything is about mythology and ancient literature, I said Theon has a lot of connections to it, connections that are hard not to notice, that actually make sense and are not taken out of nowhere like everyone in this fandom does. Theon’s story is about himself, not about Bran or any Stark, you’re just obsessed with throbb. Theon is connected to magic and to the gods, Theon is the rightful king of the Iron Islands, so why it’s so amusing to people when someone suggests that Theon has something to do. I’m not saying that Theon has to be important for his story to count, but why it’s so amusing to people the idea that Theon is an abuse and rape victim and at the same time he has something to do. When it comes to female victims, they want them to do great things, when it comes to Theon they constantly reduce him to poor say boy, but Theon is not like that, Theon is in pain and he wants everything to end, but he’s also angry and he wants to be free. I didn’t say that he has to explore the sea because he’s an Ironborn, you said that, not me. I think that that’s something Book!Theon would want to do if he survives everything. Because he would be free and he would go into the unknown. That’s not true Theon has no connection to the sea, the Drowned God himself wants him as king and he likes ships, there’s also the fact that he never learned how to use a ship because he was kidnapped at 10. Also what’s so wrong about him connecting with his culture? He could change things, he wouldn’t be a viking, he would be an explorer. The way you talk about it, it’s like dealing with trauma means closing himself in an house. And about the prophecy, what’s so amusing about saying that Theon has a lot that fits? I know that the prophecy is vague, but Davos and Stannis don’t come close to it as Theon does. Theon died in almost every possible way and managed to come back on his own. He keeps saying that he died in Winterfell. Read the last chapters in ACOK, it’s all there and it all happens at the same time, and still there’s so much more, so many things. And it’s like this HAS to be true, but you say no to everything, you don’t even think that he has something to do with the Iron Islands, you just think he has to “atone” to Bran, so how are you different from D&D? Theon doesn’t have to atone to Bran, Robb or anyone else called Stark, his story is about identity. And Bran is talking to Theon and yes, Theon took Winterfell, but it’s not the only reason their stories are connected, Theon taking Winterfell from Bran was a foreshadowing to them interacting in the future for different more important reasons, that was always clear to me

... anon never mind that I hadn't talked about this in ages so like you came into my inbox with some 500 words of replying at 8 am on a sunday morning and idk how *I* am supposedly twisting things when

you brought this out of nowhere

I hadn't talked about the AA thing nor anything wrt theon's ending in like... a year

you are basically making up half of what I said or didn't because like 'oh I didn't say he had a tying to the sea because he's an ironborn' but two lines later you say 'what's the issue if he reconnects with his ancestry' which.... means that he'd have a tie to the sea because he's an ironborn so what's the truth here

'you're obsessed with throbb' I didn't mention robb once in my entire answer nor throbb nor I have written throbb meta recently like... I ship throbb but I don't see how that has any relevance to an answer where I literally didn't mention it and I said theon's sl can't be just about the starks

idk why you seem to think I have great stakes re jon snow and 'he's stereotypical no matter how much you say he's not', I'm saying that for a chosen one archetype he's a deconstruction so he's not stereotypical in the way h*rry p*tter is or aragorn is or whatever and it's like objective text and honestly I have fic to write and stuff to do and I could have like completely ignored your ask and said 'I think you're wrong' instead yesterday I spent half an hour answering you like... you don't need to sound that aggressive or come at me with this entire block of text when I wasn't even the one starting this conversation

what’s so amusing about saying that Theon has a lot that fits?

anon I explained in those 1k reply or whatever all the reasons why everything theon has that fits is something every single other character has at that point dany has the exact same reasons for fitting it and I told you all the reasons why jon has extra things that fit that no one else has, like.... it's my opinion, I haven't changed my mind since 2012 on it, you aren't going to change it and no one is until grrm writes different, you don't need to convince me or look for me to validate your reading because you can have whichever reading you want and no one stops you, I just don't think it's correct, the end

The way you talk about it, it’s like dealing with trauma means closing himself in an house.

anon you keep on saying I say that but you are aware that if I say I want char X to get their little house in the village/woods/city of their choice and grow strawberries with their loved ones and be happy I'm not saying what you said and I'm talking abt endgame? jaime and brienne both also deal with trauma and when I say that I hope they get married on tarth have fifteen kids and never set foot in a court again I'm not saying having children is the only way to deal with trauma like.... one thing is the endgame one thing is how you get there, where did I say theon is gonna lock himself in a cottage in wow and stay there until ados? nowhere, like.... please a bit of chill here? you read a thing and arbitrarily decided it meant stuff it doesn't mean but I am the one twisting and erasing? like sorry but it sounds like you want a fight about it or smth and believe me fighting about who is AA is not on my list of to-do things for today, also 'I died in winterfell' is like... yeah, theon greyjoy died in wf then he became reek then he became theon again, it's metaphorical, jon literally died, also like if AA wasn't a main fiver then it'd probably be someone completely out of left field that no one gaf about and for that matter there's a character who has been dying and coming back to life who has a flaming sword since like acok, but do I see you telling me it's textual proof beric is AA? no, but that would make more textual sense than theon imvho so *shrug*

in short: anon sorry but it sounds like being that theon is your fave - which... I mean he's in my top three so I agree that he's a great fave choice - you want him desperately to have the main role in the main storyline which is imvho not the case and again... even if jon was stereotypical (which we can argue on but like... from your wording I think you hate jon ngl which fair enough everyone has their dislikes) it wouldn't make the textual evidence less evidence and like... idk how to say it nicely but not liking the protagonist is more common than not and if you don't whatever but that doesn't mean he's not and that the textual stuff indicating he has the mystical hero storyline doesn't exist, I'd suggest you make peace with that concept and with the concept that your fave doesn't need to have any specialness in their sl to be a legitimate fave, also like... in asoiaf everyone who is special™ has a shit life and when grrm says he wants a bittersweet ending like in lotr, do I have to remind anyone what was lotr's ending? samwise gamgee goes back to his little house and children and wife in the shire and says he's home and we're all happy that the dude who deserved it most got it great, if that's what he's aiming for I really don't think presuming everyone gets the magical great™ storyline is in the cards X°D but most of all: again, everyone who's had a sl being full of magic prophecies and shit in these books has had a crap life and hated every second of it that was related to those prophecies and I want theon to be happy at the end so in lack of any imvho text proof that says it's anyone but jon I'll stick with that because it means none of my faves is in line to hate their life, which is exactly what happens to jon if he's AA and exactly what I think is gonna happen and I don't particularly like that for him either bc I do want jon to have nice things but idt he'll get them, doesn't mean I'm trying to find any textual reason to decide on my own that AA is dany (a char I care a lot less about) so that she gets the brunt of it because that's now how it works, I made peace with it too X°D

[rayofspades]

How to Write a Horror Story: The Magnus Archives

This post is kinda weird since most tumblr fandom content is based on the assumption that Everyone Has Seen The Thing, but since this is a transcript of a video essay, it’s more broad. 

I might link the video in a reblog since, you know, tumblr doesn’t like links.

Anyways, here’s the post:

Hello Jon, apologies for the decep-

I’ve seen a lot of mystery shows in my day, and some supernatural shows, and the common thread between them is that they kind of...fall apart as they go on. 

Obviously, this is a generalization and I haven’t seen every mystery show or every paranormal show, but it’s a pretty common problem. 

At this point in pop culture criticism, it’s basically common knowledge that these shows fall apart due to a lack of planning. If a mystery series is making shit up as it goes along while trying to surprise the audience, it’s going to stop making sense at some point. And if an episodic paranormal show is constantly trying to up the stakes, eventually it’s going to become absolutely ridiculous and stretch the audience’s suspension of disbelief past a breaking point. 

Other people have already talked about this stuff to death, but today I want to talk about a paranormal mystery show that actually succeeds at what it set out to do.  

The Magnus Archives is a podcast written by Jonny Sims and directed by Alexander J. Newall. It ran from 2016 to 2021 and it’s...really really good. It’s an episodic horror story, taking place at the fictional Magnus Institute where the head archivist reads various statements about people’s encounters with supernatural entities. It’s got it all; scary stories, mystery, an overarching plot, office comedy, office romance, office tragedy, a villain that’s making straight men everywhere question their sexuality, and an overall really solid structure. 

If you listen to the Q+As put out by the writer and director, you’ll hear them talk about how they planned the series from the beginning, setting up the layout for each season. Some things were definitely changed throughout the actual writing process; that’s just inevitable and necessary when you’re working on a long running show, but in a general sense, they knew where they were going. But, writing a good story doesn’t just involve knowing where you’re going; it’s about executing whatever plan you have effectively. And I think the execution of The Magnus Archives is pretty brilliant, so I want to talk about it. 

And for the record, I said “brilliant,” not “perfect.” I do have a lot of criticisms of this show, and I’m definitely going to talk about those too, because honestly? Even the problems with this show are interesting in their own right. 

Ok, let’s go. 

Oh, spoilers by the way. For the whole plot. Whole thing. 

Part 1: Horror and Mystery 

Ok, so The Magnus Archives has two separate plots going on: the episodic stories that can be listened to individually, and the underlying meta plot. The former is where most of the mystery storytelling takes place, and it’s a really engaging mystery. It’s starts off slow, and almost undetectable at first. The main character, Jon, also known as The Archivist, is just reading out old scary stories that people have delivered to the Magnus Institute. Stuff like; a college student sees a ghostly inhuman figure asking for a cigarette, a woman’s fiancé dies and she finds herself trapped in an empty graveyard, there’s this goth kid who apparently murdered his mother and then skinned her? But she’s kind of still alive? What the f*ck? Hope we never see that kid again. Also, this “Jurgen Lietner” guy wrote a bunch of cursed books and Jon knows about this? Are more books gonna come up? And then you’re like, wait is the goth kid who killed that burn victim the same goth kid who killed his mom like 8 episodes ago? Holy shit the family of that girl’s dead fiancé FUNDS THE MAGNUS INSTITUTE? Did this famous youtuber meet one of the missing people from episode one? The goth kid is back and he’s looking for Leitner books? The name “Michael” has come up like 6 times? Are they all the same guy? I just—who the f*ck is Jurgen Leitner? 

So yeah, as you can see, a lot of these stories connect in cool ways, and I’ve only mentioned like, 0.2 percent of all of those connections. Furthermore, these stories are told out of chronological order, and sometimes the same scenario appears in more than one statement, told from different perspectives. This asymmetrical storytelling and odd doling out of information creates a mystery that’s really interesting. It also makes for a great re-listen, since you can retroactively see what elements were set up before you even realized that they were going to come back.  

The audio format contributes to this too; you can’t just see that the table from episode three matches the pattern on the box in episode eight. You have to pick up on clues that were mentioned and pay attention to what people are describing, and it’s highly rewarding when the pieces all start to fit together. 

There is a bit of a downside to this though. Technically The Magnus Archives is a horror story first and a mystery second, and these two elements can mesh in weird ways. 

The horror is element is really strong. Each story is completely different, sometimes focusing on psychological horror, body horror, or supernatural versions of more primal fears like heights, darkness, enclosed spaces, etc. Basically, if you’re afraid of anything, there will be at least one episode of The Magnus Archives that gets under your skin. 

Jonny Sims can really sell his stories through both his writing and acting. He plays Jon, by the way, and plagiarized his own birth certificate for the character name. (For future reference, Jonny is the actor, Jon is the character). Overall, he’s really good at writing prose, and each narrator has a very distinct voice even though the large majority of the stories are being read by one character/actor.  

Obviously not every episode is a bull’s eye. Sometimes it’s due to the subjectivity when it comes to what you as an audience member are scared of, and occasionally it’s just weird writing decisions. I’m thinking specifically of episode 21 where the line “the sky ate him” is said, and it is the worst line in the entire show. The whole goddamn show. That’s it. That’s the number one worst line. 

But still, overall, the horror storytelling is incredibly solid, and some episodes even gave me brand new fears, like the unholy isolation of being in space, or the concept that someone you love could be replaced by someone completely different without you noticing.  

But here’s the thing; 

A lot of good horror is based on the absence of explanation. Most of the episodes that gave me the most visceral reactions of genuine terror come from the first two seasons, because that’s when the audience has the least amount of information. 

For example, in episode two, a really terrifying coffin is introduced. It’s creepy, it reacts very strangely to water for some reason, and appears to compel people to try opening it. By the end of the episode, the audience never finds out what’s in that coffin and that is a good thing. That is a huge part of what made that episode so unnerving.  

And then a few seasons later, we do find out what’s in the coffin, and to be fair the answer is both very creative and very scary, but it also takes a lot of the punch out of episode two. 

 No matter how f*cked up your thing is, it’s not going to compare to whatever the audience can conjure up in their own mind after such a creepy set up. This problem isn’t just stuck in this one scenario either; there are a lot of early episodes that, while still good, seem a lot less creepy in hindsight after you learn more about the scenario. 

I don’t think it’s bad writing, but I do think it’s a double-edged sword. Jonny Sims even mentions this sort of issue in the first Q+A. 

But yeah, to sum up; the narration is good, the ideas are creative, and seeing the mystery unfurl itself is deeply compelling. And for the record, the mystery elements aren’t of the Sherlock Holmes variety. It’s less about finding out who did the thing, and more about discovering how all of these individual points are intricately connected, pulling on each other as they move. Woven together like a... oh shit what’s the word? Gah, it’s on the tip of my tongue. Ah, whatever, I’m sure it’s not like a running motif or anything.  

Part 2: Stakes 

One of the main reasons I stopped watching Supernatural is that it devolves into complete f*cking nonsense. At the end of season five, the boys literally defeat the devil, and then the show...keeps going? Which would be fine. It’s also, largely, an episodic show, so if they have more creative ideas, they could definitely keep going with it. In fact, there are some post season five episodes that I thought were pretty good. But as they kept trying to outdo themselves with Bigger Bads, it got kind of difficult to suspend my disbelief. And the final nail in the coffin for me was the end of season nine, when Crowly basically points out to the audience that the main characters keep dying and coming back to life, so there are no stakes. The most-badest bad guy can always be defeated because some new Thing can just come out of left-field, and dying isn’t even on the table as a threat since people have tons of ways of coming back to life. 

The Magnus Archives, while being a show based in the supernatural, notably doesn’t bring anyone back to life, even though some very beloved characters die. I say “notably,” because in the season three Q+A, Jonny even says, “We make a point not to bring people back from the dead in Magnus, I know it sometimes feels like that, but we are very careful to never actually resurrect anyone.” 

Upon listening to this I said “oh my god, these guys are the only writers left who at least kind of know what they’re doing.”  

Also, as far as plot progression goes, The Magnus Archives is lowkey structurally perfect in the way the threats escalate in the underlying plot; both in terms of destruction and power and in terms of emotional consequences. Season one starts off with one major threat that’s dealt with by the end of the season, season two reveals the main villain, season three lays out the grander forces at play, season four ends the world, and season five is about un-ending the world. The difference between season one and season five is vast, but how we got there makes perfect sense. 

As for the emotional stakes, let’s talk about themes and characters. 

Part 3: Themes and Characters 

At the very end of season two, it’s revealed that the supernatural happenings in the Magnus universe are the result of entities far beyond our understanding. Since their existence is so fundamentally different from what we can comprehend, they interact with the world through cursed items, creatures, and humans who have dedicated themselves to an entity.  

A lot of people read this as a metaphor for late-stage capitalism, and I am one of those people. A bunch of faceless entities exploiting humans through means of dehumanization and causing people to suffer because it feeds them seems like an appropriate metaphor. 

While we’re on this topic, I do want to talk about Elias, since he’s the main villain of the entire series and also one of my favorite villains of all time. The Magnus Archives is a series that deals with a lot of moral questions and has a lot of characters who do morally questionable things, so one might assume that the villain of said series is, you know, morally ambiguous and sympathetic to some extent despite being “the bad guy.” 

Nope! No stops, full bastard. It’s great. 

He falls under what I’ve deemed the “unbeatable boss” archetype. He just doesn’t tolerate insubordination or resistance, and that combined with his lack of empathy means that anyone who crosses him is either killed or brought to heel. His power set is cool too. On the surface the ability to see out of any eye and read minds sounds useful, but not deal breaking, but the way he uses that power to manipulate people and anticipate threats...yeah, it makes him kind of impossible to beat.  

He’s just...so evil and he loves being evil and every single f*cking thing he does pisses me off and makes me want to kill him. It’s. Great. 

Anyways, I think Elias’s role as the central antagonist is what makes the capitalist reading so common. He’s the head of the institute, he’s wealthy, he’s powerful, and he dehumanizes people in ways that are both brutal and chillingly indifferent. He seems like an appropriate stand in through that lens. 

I also love how voice actor Ben Meredith plays him like’s he’s trying to seduce the audience.  

With all of that said, I wouldn’t call this the critique of capitalism a direct allegory or anything; in much looser terms, this could be a metaphor for any power structure that exploits humans. Organized religion or cults might be even more on the nose, considering there’s a lot of mentions of rituals and worship within the show. 

But if we boil it down to its barest aspects and focus on the avatar characters, The Magnus Archives is a series about people becoming monsters. Or, at the very least, becoming worse versions of themselves. That can mean a lot of things to different people in a metaphorical sense; the tense relationship between desperation and morality, the eagerness to please at the cost of one’s own mental health, the psychological traumas that lead people down dark paths, and how personal choices can still be dictated and manipulated by outside influences. It’s kind of heavy stuff, but put into a digestible package through the show’s abstractions. 

Well, for the most part.  

There’s some debate as to whether or not Daisy’s arc was handled tastefully. While her demise and Basira’s character arc were clearly meant to condemn police brutality and the deeply corrupt system that allows it to foster, it’s still a weird subject to discuss in such a fantastical context, and there is a strange sympathy for the devil angle that can get kind of uncomfortable for some listeners.  

Okay, stepping back from that for a bit, let’s talk about Jon and how he fits into this whole “people becoming corrupted” thing. 

Jon has one of my favourite brands of character arc, which is one based in deterioration alongside growth. The most obvious way this takes form is his departure from humanity as his relationship with the Eye drives him to psychologically harm others, and he finds himself sympathizing more and more with the people he was afraid of, stating in episode 152 that anyone listening to his recordings might compare him to the other avatars that have had their minds and morals twisted. 

Over the course of the series, he is repeatedly traumatized and the show makes a point that he is being both physically and emotionally scarred. These happenings are what drive his motivation for revenge in season five, and he even states that revenge is making him a worse person. As a character he’s constantly berating himself and his own monstrousness, much to Martin’s dismay.  

That’s why the finale destroys me in the best way. Upon seeing that Jon has betrayed him and basically given himself over to the Eye, Martin asks “how much of you is even left?” And when Jon tries to reassure him that he’s still himself, Martin’s response is “how would you even know?” This cuts through me every time. Up until this point, Martin had consistently stood up for Jon and Jon’s humanity, even in the face of Tim’s doubt, Basira’s mistrust, Elias being cryptic, and Jon’s own self-hatred. This is the ultimate breaking point, the point where even Martin, the love of Jon’s life, doesn’t really recognize him. It’s brutal. Because at the end of the day, Jon is still himself; he’s a deeply broken person trying to make the right decisions.  

We’ll come back to the finale later, but for now I want to talk about the romance. 

Jon’s emotional growth throughout the series is largely tied into Martin. Martin’s the first person that Jon really opens up to, and this later grows into trust which then turns into a genuine emotional connection.  On the flip side, Martin’s growth in season four is largely tied into Jon. Martin starts season four basically waiting to die, but Jon’s return gives him a reason to keep living, and he’s later able to recognize his own value outside of the pure utility of ‘you need to set yourself on fire to keep everyone else warm.’ Both of them give each other reason to push onward despite everything becoming more and more hopeless.  

It’s a good romance. I wish the two had had a few more scenes together before the culmination, but it is built up over the course of four seasons and comes together in an utterly fantastic confession.  

And yeah, the scene with Martin and Jon in the Lonely is cheesy as hell, but it is the highest quality of cheese. These are some gourmet nachos.  

Umm, also kind of stating the obvious here, but it’s also pretty cool that the main character in this horror story falls in love with another man. You don’t see that a lot, and it’s cool that no one even makes a big deal out of it. It’s just a normal romance, but with two guys. It’s nice. 

So, they go to Scottland, they hang out, they’re in love, Jonalias starts the apocalypse through Jon, the world ends, and season five starts! 

...Let’s talk about season five! 

Part 4: Season 5 

At the very start of this post, I said that supernatural mysteries tend to get worse as they go along, and I am deeply sad to report that I don’t think that The Magnus Archives is an exception. It just goes downhill in a very different way than its ilk. 

And, so we’re clear, I don’t think season five totally tanks or becomes unlistenable, it’s just, in my opinion, notably worse than the rest of the show. 

As discussed earlier, it doesn’t fall apart due to a lack of planning; everything still makes sense, but the presentation has changed drastically. The episodic statements are no longer scary stories, but more like slam poems about the various hellscapes that Jon and Martin are trekking through. Honestly if these were published in a book of slam poetry, I would probably think they slapped pretty hard. I genuinely believe that Jonny Sims is a good writer, but as a podcast a lot of these statements just made me zone out. There’s at least four that I don’t even slightly remember. Myself and many others have noted that they just...aren’t scary, unless there’s a specific episode that really gets under your skin due to a certain fear or phobia. 

To quote my friend, “it’s harder to feel a solid impact when the setting is literally divorced from reality. People would either go numb or insane to the point where their fears become unrelatable.” 

And, to be honest, I think that this same surreal odyssey set up could have worked with a slight shift in narration. Two stand out episodes for me were “Strung Out” and “Wonderland.” Both of them show the tormented target actively trying to resist and interact with their tormenter, instead of just trying to escape or live through their situation. “Strung Out” is also more of character study; you learn about Francis’s life before the apocalypse through their interaction with the Web hellscape. Meanwhile “Wonderland” is just...f*cked, and you get to see Jon take the perspective of first-person Bad Guy throughout the whole thing, which is its own level of disturbing. 

But the majority of episodes feel so abstract that I kind of forget the people trapped in them are supposed to be characters and not just concepts, so it’s harder to feel their dread and pain. 

But I’m still here for the metaplot, the drama, and the romance. And when that’s good, it’s great! I think the final handful of episodes are really solid in that regard. 

Buuuuuuut... 

A decent chunk of season five is dedicated to the “kill bill” plot. Jon discovers he has the power to smite people, and while at first, he’s embarrassed about this, since he actively enjoyed killing Not!Sasha, Martin is super into it! He’s encouraging Jon to murder people.  

This is actually the set up for a really good arc. As Jon gets more and more into his own avenging angel persona, Martin could get more and more disturbed by it so by the time they get to London, Martin could be really upset that Jon is so willing to wreak his own divine justice by killing or torturing all of the avatars. 

And this does kind of happen. We do reach this end state, and it makes for a good final conflict, but the way we got here was borderline nonsense. Thematic gibberish, if you will. 

Throughout the journey, Martin is clearly motived by a sense of justice; these people are bad, and so they should die. Whereas Jon is clearly more motivated by revenge; he only goes after the avatars that hurt him personally. At one point, Jon admits that maybe all of this killing isn’t making anything better, but just making him worse. Martin apologizes for egging him on, Jon absolves him by saying he started it, and then Martin’s like “I’ll keep my apology then.” This is the second worst line in the entire series, right after “the sky ate him.” And it’s close. 

But it kind of feels like we’re back at square one. Jon is back to being ashamed of killing and Martin is still keen on his justice stance, but now just less pushy about it. The arc is basically half resolved at this point. 

But then it doesn’t matter, because Jon kills Helen anyway. So, Jon’s back on his revenge/justice thing. Then what was the point of his earlier revelation? Why have that if it’s not going to matter and the conflict that was escalating still culminates with Jon leaning into the avenging angel stuff, and Martin being disturbed by it? It just makes both of them look like huge hypocrites! I f*cking hate it when they’re in the tunnels and Martin says “you weren’t meant to enjoy it this much,” regarding Jon’s smiting. Where did this come from?! Why didn’t you say this earlier? Third worst line in the series. 

And yeah, I’ll say it; the boys fight too much in this season. I loved their romance up to season five, and their cute moments and more lowkey serious discussions are still good in this season, but God, they fight so much. And I’m not saying couples can’t have fights or tension, that’s just realistic and also stories need conflict to be interesting. Jonny Sims is on the record saying that balancing a healthy romance with the stress of a literal apocalypse was a priority, and I’m sorry, but I don’t think it’s well balanced.  I’m just saying that sometimes it feels like they don’t even like each other and it really started to grate on me. 

Maybe it would have been better if the beginning of this season was dedicated to charming romance at first, so we as an audience could better appreciate how strong their love is and how it’s truly being tested. But obviously that was never on the table— 

ALEX NO. 

So, yeah, I have a lot of problems with season. I think it’s the worst one by far, even though there is a lot of it I still enjoy, including the ending. 

As I mentioned before, the moment where Martin confronts Jon in the panopticon absolutely kills me, and Jon’s reaction kills me even harder. Throughout the season, Jon had largely been motivated by revenge, martyrdom, and the subconscious call of the Eye, and all three of those factors led him to his position as the pupil. He’s getting revenge against the powers, sacrificing his humanity to get rid of the Fears, and taking his place as wearer of the watcher’s crown. But all of this gets thrown out the window when he realizes that Martin is going to die. And not only is Martin going to die, Martin is going to die specifically because he loves Jon and refuses to leave Jon alone to die horribly. Martin had always been an underlying motivation for Jon, his “reason” as stated in episode 167, but now love as a motivator has come to the forefront, and Jon can no longer go through with his plan because of it. But at this point in the series, they’re both utterly doomed, and Jon concludes that the only possible chance they have of surviving, however unlikely, would be to sever the pupil of the eye, technically killing Jon, but maybe, just maybe, allowing them to escape with the Fears. Whether that’s meant to be literal or more ethereal is left unclear. Hell, maybe Jon’s just making it up completely and creating his own potential happy ending. It’s a pretty potent ending in emotional terms; Jon has to release the Fears and Martin has to kill Jon, and those are the two things they were dead set on not doing.  

The Web, arguably the real main antagonist, basically won, and their manipulation of Jon worked. The destruction spread, and there is kind of a bleak underlying tone to that. 

But at least this ending has some semblance of hope to it. I’m not saying that releasing the Fears was objectively the correct moral decision; the entire point of the dilemma is that there was no objectively correct moral decision. But, while Jon’s solution does have merit, it was also the most hopeless. I think dramatically, any one of the choices on the table could have worked if the writing was well executed, but thematically this one seemed like the perfect combination of grim and optimistic. Like, all of the evils that plague humanity can’t just be defeated forever and things could get worse, but maybe not. Maybe everything works out... 

So yeah, The Magnus Archives...is a podcast. And it’s a really good podcast. Great, even. I can complain about season five all I want, but regardless of how that worked out, you can tell throughout the entire show that the people working on it were trying to tell a genuinely excellent story. 

It’s good. Go listen to it. Even though I spoiled the entire thing and if you’re still here, you’ve probably already listened to it. Listen to it again. 

[deactivatedpermanently]

Fat Bastard Girl | Robb Stark

Could you maybe do a Robb Stark imagine where the reader is insecure about her weight and he comforts her?

Requested by: Anonymous

(A/N: I really hope this was alright; I’ve never really written anything based on a request before, but there’s a first time for everything I suppose! Also, if you’re offended by explicit language (which I doubt you are if you like Game of Thrones) then probably skip this one.)

Summary: When you, a swordfighter loyal to the Starks, follow Robb to war, many of the soldiers manage you feel insecure about yourself. Robb steps in and comforts you.

By the age of 3, you had a sword in your hand. Sitting idly by and simply just marvelling at your half-brothers and their immaculate swordsmanship wasn’t enough to satisfy you. So, with your father’s permission, your second eldest half-brother (Gared Laurent), the legitimate son of former knight Lord Regalt Laurent, taught you to how to fight. He was just 15 at the time, but he, like you, was a prodigy with a sword. However, unlike you, he wasn’t Lord Laurent’s bastard.

You had been raised in the keep of Herely Heath since infancy, following the death of your biological mother during childbirth. Luckily, Lady Juliene Laurent (the woman you knew as ‘mother) didn’t resent you enough not to raise you; with 6 boys, she was happy to raise a girl. Unfortunately, her dream of dressing you up in pretty gowns and styling your hair in a beautiful way was soon dashed when she realised that you were different. You wore your brothers’ old clothes  due to loathing the long, girly dresses your mother insisted you wore. Your hair was often made messy by the wind and rain in which you insisted in playing. Your personality was more brash and confident than what was expected of a young girl, and the daughter of a lord. 

The commoners, unlike your family, seemed to judge you and mock you to themselves for who you were. You heard their whispers about you, the chubby bastard being raised like the legitimate child of a lord and lady. Most other lords and ladies would be disgusted that their daughter, illegitimate or not, wanted to fight, but, instead, your father and mother were surprisingly supportive of your choices, even when commoners and several other lords and ladies passed judgement upon you.

As you learned how to fight with a sword from such a young age, you became easily one of the best sword-fighters in Westeros. Though you weren’t as good as Jaime Lannister, you could certainly give him a run for his money. Like your half-brothers, your skills were on par with that of an accomplished knight. That’s why when you turned 11, instead of marrying you off to a wealthy prospective lord, your father decided to send you off to Winterfell to begin serving his old friend, Ned Stark.

Though you were a bastard, you were still the daughter of a Lord. Your father insisted that you were escorted to Winterfell, less than a day’s travel on horseback away from Herely Heath, by three members of his guard, but you insisted he let you travel alone because, in your words: “A true fighter need not be protected.”

Your arrival at Winterfell was a welcome one by all of the Starks. You were the same age as Robb and Jon, both of whom initially doubted your abilities as a sword fighter. With Lord Stark’s permission, you engaged in combat with both of them and won within half a minute. While Jon revered you as a worthy opponent, Robb was mesmerised by you. With the tip of your blade to his throat and your foot resting on his torso, Robb looked up at you with complete admiration. From that moment, you were close with both the Snow boy and Stark boy, even if one viewed you in a whole different light to the other. The fact that you were a bastard always helped you relate to Jon and be close with him and have a strong, platonic bond, but you could surprisingly connect with Robb, especially when he requested that you teach him how to be a better fighter.

When you and Robb were 14, Robb gained a better understanding of you than he ever had before. He learned why you were the way that you were.

It was late at night, and you and Robb were training by fire light. Yet again, you had him pinned to the ground.

“Your stance made you lose balance.” you informed him, extending your hand to him to help him up. “And, you were holding your sword too low down, so I could kick it out of your hand. If I wanted to kill you, I could’ve killed you. Imagine: Robb Stark killed by a fat bastard girl.”

“Alright; no need to keep bringing it up.” Robb muttered, sitting up and taking your hand. “You always do that.”

“Do what?” you asked bluntly, pulling him up with a little bit of difficulty.

“Tell me that you could’ve killed me and that you beat me and then say you’re a ‘fat bastard girl’.” Robb answered.

“You’d be smug about it too if you were a fat bastard girl defeating the legitimate son of a lord.” you said, folding your arms. 

Rob frowned and looked at you, a bemused expression on his scuffed-up face. He was silent, something in the back of his mind telling him that you weren’t finished talking.

“If I wish to wield a sword and pierce the flesh of my enemies instead of be forced please a wealthy man in a loveless marriage and produce a dozen children, I have to prove myself as more than Lord Laurent’s fat bastard girl to everyone whose watching me.” You glanced up at Rob. “What’s the eldest son of Lord Eddard Stark got to prove when nobody’ll judge him for what he was born as?”

Robb was silent still. Yet again, he sensed that you weren’t quite done, and he was alright with that. He’d never thought of you, the brave and cunning (Y/N) Laurent, as just a fat bastard girl, but he knew, deep down, he’d never be able to prove to you that you weren’t just that.

“I was born as a fat bastard girl, but I want to die as more than that.” you responded. “When I die, I want to be remembered as something more than just Laurent’s fat bastard girl.”

You were done, Robb thought to himself. It was his turn to speak.

“Is that why you picked up a sword?” Robb asked.

“Of course not. I was three; I didn’t care about honour and victory when I was three. I just thought sword fighting looked better than drinking tea with mother.” you replied, causing Robb to snort a laugh.

There was a brief moment of silence.

“You’ll always be more than a fat bastard girl to me, (Y/N).” Robb stated.

“I know that.” you said in an unconvincing response. “It’s getting late. We’d better go back inside before your mother shouts at us.”

From that day on, Robb was aware that, in spite of how you presented yourself, you were insecure. You weren’t as self-assured as you acted, but you only broke down in private. That was until you had followed Robb to war.

Robb had appointed you second-in-command after him, knowing you could and would be a good leader.

However, the incredulous men who gawked, sneered and laughed at you didn’t share the same idea. For one, you were a woman. Somehow, your lack of testicles meant that you were unworthy of having any authority over them. Two, you were fat. Being fat meant that they just couldn’t resist the urge to not mock you. They didn’t even have to know you were a bastard to make up their minds that you weren’t good enough to lead them. Even when you’d slaughtered one of your foes before their eyes, they didn’t take you seriously. To you, they represented everyone, which meant that no one would take you seriously as a fighter.

They’d literally snort at you when they thought you weren’t listening. They’d roll their eyes at you when they thought you weren’t looking. Within weeks, you were sick of it.

You snapped.

“Any man to show me any disrespect regarding my appearance gets his heart torn out by their own sword! Do I make myself clear?” you yelled.

They all cackled at you. You clenched your jaw. 

A young man sat close to you made a pig squealing noise, causing a louder eruption of laughter.

You stormed over to him, effortlessly unsheathed his sword and pointed the tip of the blade at his chest, now rapidly rising and falling in panic. The laughter was drowned out by silence. The young man looked up at you, his eyes filled with the fear of a man about to die.

“Didn’t you hear me?” you demanded. “Or could you just not understand me?”

“I-I...Um-um-” he stammered out. “I-I...W-well-”

“I’m sorry; am I not making any sense? Am I speaking in Valyrian?” you demanded.

“N-No! I-I-I’m really s-sorry, m’lady-” he stuttered out, tears spilling from his eyes. “P-Please, don’t-”

“I could skewer you and make an example out of you, or I could show you mercy and be weakened by your pathetic display of grovelling.” you said, pretending to think aloud. “Laurents, legitimate or not, are never ones to spew empty threats. If I don’t tear your heart out with your own sword, I wouldn’t be a very good Laurent, would I?”

“P-please, m’lady. I beg for mercy!” the man pleaded, body wracking with sobs.

“Only the weak show mercy. I told you that anyone else to show disrespect towards my appearance would have his heart extracted by their own sword, did I not?” you demanded.

“Y-y-yes, m’lady. B-But, I was only j-joking-”

“Oh, my sincerest apologies then, sweetheart! I didn’t realise you were only joking.” you responded, thick sarcasm laced in your voice. “Joking or not, it’s still disrespect. All my life, disposable, loathsome fools like you have disrespected me because of my weight. Even when threatened with death, idiots will still do all they can to wrench a laugh from those around them. When I explicitly stated defiance would lead to death, why should I spare you?”

“Because, I forbid you from doing so.” an authoritative voice said, approaching you from behind.

“Robb? What are you doing?” you questioned, trying to sound as confident as possible.

Robb looked at the young man whose chest was being prodded by the sword in your hand, then looked up as if to address anyone with a cold look in his eyes. “If any of you refuse to show Lady Laurent your respect, you’ll have to answer to me. Is that understood?” Robb loudly demanded.

“Yes, Lord Stark!” the soldiers shouted in unison. 

Robb grabbed the sword from your hand and threw it to the ground. He grabbed your wrist and practically dragged you in tow as he marched you to his now-empty tent.

“What was that?” he demanded, folding his arms as he glared at you.

“They were all being cunts to me, making pig noises and commenting about me behind my back, so I threatened them with death. That scrawny little prick disobeyed me, so I was prepared to skewer him.” you shrugged, suppressing the urge to just break down about everything that had been overwhelming you as of late.

“You can’t just kill people who mock you, (Y/N).” Robb sighed irritably

“Why not? I have a sword, skill, authority and a general disdain for those expendable cunts. I could massacre half of them if I pleased.” you sneered bitterly, looking Robb in the eyes.

“I know you, (Y/N). I also know you weren’t going to go through with ending that boy’s life. You don’t have to act like you can choose if those men out there live or die.” he said, approaching you as he placed his hands on your shoulders.

You looked away from him, folding your arms. “Shut up.”

“If you think they’re just expendable cunts, why let them get into your head?” Robb questioned.

You felt tears brim your eyes as you bit your bottom lip and said nothing. 

“(Y/N).” Robb said firmly.

You exhaled. “I’ve been treated like shit since I was a kid because of who I am. I thought having authority would earn me some respect, but still they view me as nothing more than a fat bastard girl.” you explained, tears falling. “If they can’t see that I’m not just a fat bastard girl, how am I supposed to convince myself that that’s not just what I am?”

You felt a firm grip find itself around your waist, the warmth of Robb’s furs warming your freezing cheeks. Reluctantly, you wrapped your arms around Robb’s torso. A few moments later, he pulled away just enough so he could look at your face.

“(N/N), you’ve never just been a fat bastard girl.” Robb assured you, softening from the stoic facade he’d worn to intimidate the soldiers. “I learned that when you beat me in that fight when we were kids. (Y/N), never let those people make you feel anything less than what you actually are.”

“What am I actually, then?” you asked incredulously, damp cheeks heating up. Robb holding you so firmly made you feel a little more secure. Of course, you didn’t need Robb to protect you, nor could he raise your self-esteem. But, he’d always been good at making you feel a little better than crap. 

“You’re a confident fighter, a strong opponent, a beautiful woman.” Robb responded. The sincerity in his speech and the emotion in his eyes that bore into your soul was enough to melt any reluctance to accept his words as anything other than true.

“Don’t use my vulnerability to get me into bed, Robb.” you insisted jokingly in an attempt to show him that what he’d said had made you feel a little better.

He chuckled and smiled faintly as you, wiping away your tears with the back of his fingers. Of all the people you’d met in your time away from home, Robb had been the one to see you in this state the most. He was never annoyed nor inconvenienced by it. In fact, he felt privileged to be the one you trusted enough to come to in times of distress. 

“I’ve been in love with you since the first time you pointed a sword at my throat. Did you know that, (N/N)?” Robb said, not entirely thinking. Still, he was bold enough to speak such words. 

You shrugged, masking your surprise and childish urge to fangirl. “I suppose so.” you responded. “Before I say that I love you too, can I tell you something else?”

“Of course.” he replied.

“Don’t ever undermine me in front of anyone again, or I’ll skewer you like a pig being roasted over a fire.” you said with a smirk, half-joking.

“Understood, my lady.” he replied with a smirk, half-frightened.

[gothic-safari-clown]

The Mind’s Power Over the Body

Part 19: Hands Off

Story summary: They only ever had each other. It had been that way since high school, ever since Elianna transferred to dreary Arlen and took Jonathan under her wing. They go separate ways for college, and when they're reunited at Arkham Asylum professionally, Elianna comes to find that they've both changed during their time separated. Can she look past the promise of danger and stay by Jonathan's side as they slide further and further into the darkness while she grapples to come to terms with the truth about herself? Can she accept what needs to be done in order to hold onto the only person who holds any meaning in her life? This is a very self-indulgent AU that draws from several different canons of the DCU and ignoring others, starting in the Batman Begins Nolanverse. This will follow the plot of the movie, although the timeline has been very slightly tweaked.

Part 1 / Part 2 / Part 3 / Part 4 / Part 5 / Part 6 / Part 7 / Part 8 / Part 9 / Part 10 / Part 11 / Part 12 / Part 13 / Part 14 / Part 15 / Part 16 / Part 17 / Part 18

Word count: 2587

TW for self harm

"So you're tellin' me absolutely nothin' is goin' on between you two?" Between sessions, Harley had come to visit Elianna in her office for a chat. "Aren't you still staying at his place?" It seemed that the blonde still had yet to give up on the idea of El and Jonathan together; the only difference now was that she had ended up being right (a fact that the redhead had made sure to remind him of as they laid in bed catching their breath the day before. He hadn't found it quite as funny as she did).

"Yeah—wait, how did you know that?"

"I was pullin' into the parking lot behind you guys this mornin'."

"Uh-huh, we drove separately, stalker." El quirked an eyebrow with an expectant smile.

"Right, so you just happened to arrive at the same time? Just 'cause you didn't take the same car doesn't you're not comin' from the same place."

"Alright, alright," El laughed. "He's got some errands to run after work, so I promised to make dinner."

"Aww," Harley exaggerated the syllable, knowing it would get under her friend's skin.

"Oh, cut it out." El rolled her eyes and scoffed. "I already told you, nothing is going on." The blonde just laughed in response. "Hey, how's your big case coming along?"

As Harley enthusiastically began to tell whatever she could about her sessions with the self-named Poison Ivy, El used the distraction as an opportunity to recall the day before smugly to herself.

Already, the recent change in their relationships had its ups and downs. On the one hand, it almost seemed like a dam had burst; their dynamic flowed more smoothly, and for her part, she felt as though a weight had lifted from her shoulders. On the other, when he had told her that morning that he had to oversee the handling of that night's delivery personally (since Batman had effectively put Falcone out of commission), her usual worry for his safety had doubled.

Something that Elianna and Jonathan had in common was a lack of experience with real relationships. As such, they shared a sense of profound importance in regards to the new arrangement. It would take some work to balance the now heightened concern they held for each other.

Meanwhile, Jonathan was in his office trying in vain to occupy his mind by shuffling through the stack of administrative paperwork that the warden's office couldn't be bothered to sort through before sending it to him. Between the unexpected hitch in the master plan and trying as hard as he could to not think about El (on that count, Scarecrow was actively working against), he was struggling to make it through even the very basics of his job.

At that moment, for example, he was grappling with his schedule for the day. Falcone had been taken to Blackgate and apparently had been asking to see him for a few days. Jonathan had been putting off visiting the mobster since he had found out; he had been caught by a civilian in a cape and a mask; what could he possibly have to discuss with such a disappointment to the underworld? Today, however, he had received word that the older man had cut his wrists, and the administration at Blackgate had sent for him specifically.

As if that weren't enough, he had already had to clear his schedule for that night to oversee the shipment, given that Falcone was now indisposed.

There was no getting around it, though, he supposed, and found himself back in the car en route to Blackgate. However, the drive wasn't nearly long enough for Jonathan to quell his frustration in Falcone's incompetence, and before too long was meeting with the mobster's caseworker.

"Doctor Crane, thanks for coming." There was a thinly disguised urgency in her voice as she greeted him.

"Not at all," he replied, barely remembering to keep his tone patient. "He cut his wrists?" How irritating it was to fake concern.

"Probably looking for the insanity plea," well, at least the woman was pragmatic, "but if anything should happen..."

"Of course, better safe than sorry." He nodded as they approached the door to the private room that Falcone had been brought to. With that, the caseworker unlocked the door to let Jonathan in and let the door swing closed behind him.

Falcone didn't skip a beat. "Hey, Doctor Crane, I can't take it anymore. It's all too much; the walls are closing in, blah blah blah," the old man rambled dryly. "Couple more days of this food, it'll be true." Jonathan found himself steeling himself against the urge to let Scarecrow come out as he settled into his chair.

"What do you want?"

"I want to know how you're gonna convince me to keep my mouth shut." The ego of a powerful man is truly something indigestible, isn't it?

"About what? You don't know anything about the operation."

"Maybe not specifics, sure, but I know you don't want the cops to take a closer look at the drugs they seized. I know about your experiments with the inmates of your nuthouse." Jonathan listened and watched as patiently as he could as the tiresome man continued to talk. "See, I don't go into business with a guy without finding out his dirty secrets." At this point, Scarecrow was banging against the proverbial walls of their brain, desperate to retaliate. "Those goons you used. I own the muscle in this town. Now I've been bringing your stuff in for months. So whatever he's planning, it's big. And I want in."

Can you believe the balls on this guy? Let me out, Jonny.

Not yet; he still doesn't have a leg to stand on.

"Well, I already know what he'll say. That we should kill you." Just because we haven't yet doesn't mean that we won't, old man.

"Even he can't get me in here. Not in my town." Jonathan was growing tired of this conversation very quickly.

"Your town." The psychiatrist repeated, not a question—a mockery. The older man's eyes narrowed dangerously.

"Oh, did I forget to ask? How rude of me, I forgot the most important part. How is your little lady friend from the asylum?" here the mobster leaned in threateningly, "Does she know what you're doing? What's gonna happen to her once you go down, I wonder. Maybe I'll send some people to make sure she's not alone, huh?"

Now that caught Jonathan's attention. The rest of Falcone's little threats were easily avoided; even he didn't have the power to endanger Ra's Al Gul's plans. He did, however, have the power to have unspeakable things done to Elianna. That would not stand.

Jonathan made his decision from there quickly. Scarecrow was overjoyed that El had been brought into the discussion, knowing that Jon would have to take it seriously, and was raring to be in control.

Jonathan sighed and removed his glasses, hearing the straw man begin to cheer in the back of his mind. "Would you like to see my mask?" He asked, opened his briefcase without waiting for an answer, popped open the false bottom, and reached for the mask, ignoring the several full syringes waiting to be used. He had added a new rig to the case, and it was as good a time as any to test it out. "I use it in my experiments. Now, I'm probably not very threatening to a guy like you," he continued, holding up the mask for emphasis, "but these crazies? They can't stand it."

With that, he made to put the mask on and let Scarecrow take over.

He could barely hear Falcone's quip about the nut taking over the nuthouse over the ever surreal feeling of taking the backseat in his own brain.

Once his face was secured, Scarecrow took great pleasure in pressing the button to release the cloud of toxin. The screams of terror began almost instantaneously, much to his delight, and he rose from his chair to loom over the mafioso.

"They scream, and they cry," he teased with menacing glee. "Much as you're doing now." Jonathan allowed Scarecrow a few more seconds of enjoyment before regaining control. They still had to leave undetected, and Scarecrow couldn't be trusted to be professional. As much as Jonathan enjoyed hearing the man who had dared to threaten El scream, he was more trustworthy when it came to subterfuge.

"Well, he's not faking," Jonathan cleared his throat as he reentered the hallway, greeted by the caseworker's concerned face. "Not that one." He was still a bit flustered by the rush of inflicting such horror upon someone. Move on, Jonathan, act normal. It was a bit of a blur after that, promising to talk to the judge and get Falcone transferred to Arkham before making his way back to the Asylum himself. He still had a few patients to see before he could punch out to oversee the shipment that evening.

However, once the rush wore off, Jonathan found his mind wandering back to what Falcone had said about El. Who knew what he could have told his people already? He stopped by El's office before returning to his own and was surprised to find her no longer there. A quick phone call to the secretary at the front desk told him that she had already left for the day—another phone call to find that her cell phone was dead.

Shit.

Jonathan forced himself back to the matter at hand, telling himself that she was fine, but the lingering worry stayed in the back of his mind.

For about an hour and a half at least, when he decided that he was done with work for the day. The sooner he could take care of business, the sooner he could rush home to make sure she was there.

In the car on his way to the meeting site, Jonathan tried calling her again to no avail.

I really need to get a home phone for the apartment; he cursed to himself.

He found himself unable to focus on the task at hand as he parked his car and got into the one being driven by the goons provided by Falcone. Any of them could have received orders at any point to take El, hurt her, anything. He had no way of knowing if instructions had already been given or what liberties were allowed should anything happen to her.

Behind his impassive expression, Jonathan was operating almost solely on autopilot, getting out of the car and entering the old apartment that served as a drop point. This one had already been used twice before, and given how close the end date was, he had already decided to eradicate any and all evidence once the job was done.

He looked disinterestedly over the pile of stuffed bunnies, appraising the shipment's size, doing quick calculations in his head to the best of his ability. After concluding that it was, in fact, the correct amount, he gestured to the goons to retrieve the substance from inside of the toys. "Get rid of all traces."

Jonathan couldn't help the disgusted look around the dilapidated apartment. He couldn't think of anywhere he wanted to be less at that moment. Distracted by the sheer quantity of distasteful thoughts swirling in his mind, he was almost startled when Scarecrow spoke suddenly.

There's someone else here.

That statement froze all other concerns as he tuned in to his environment. He barely registered one of the thugs telling the others to torch the apartment as he noticed a prickling on the back of his neck, as well as the open window.

Jonathan remained calm and in control as the other men began to douse the furniture in gasoline while he moved to examine the window.

Are you sure?

Before the straw man could answer, the sound of shattering glass from the other room stole Jonathan's attention from the window.

Yes, came the smug response. Wasting no more time, Jonathan let the other goon move to investigate and instead moved into the shadows to retrieve his mask.

You're up again, Scarecrow. Do it fast; we have to get home.

Yeah, yeah, you've been annoying me for hours; she's fine. Would you shut up about it? Retaliated Scarecrow as he forced Jonathan out of the driver's seat and took over, relishing in the drama of wearing his face again.

That moment didn't last for very long before his suspicions were confirmed, and the Batman himself burst into the room, swiftly incapacitating the leftover thug. Luckily, Scarecrow's reflexes were just as fast, and he released a cloud of toxin from their sleeve rig, which hit the caped crusader squarely in the face.

The effects were almost instantaneous, judging by the wide eyes behind the cowl and the erratic, flailing movements. Scarecrow stifled a laugh as the armored man toppled backward away from him.

"Take a seat," he taunted, thoroughly enjoying his playtime, "have a drink." Here he seized a bottle of vodka abandoned by his now useless goons. The staw man snarled mentally, understanding Jonathan's intolerance of incompetence. They would be eradicated along with the evidence of their crimes. Splashing the booze on the caped man in delight, he continued to tease him.

"You look like a man who takes himself too seriously." Scarecrow abandoned the now empty bottle and replaced it in his hand with a zippo lighter that El had left in their pocket.

Wait, she loves that thing-

We'll buy her a new one, pipe down.

He had corraled Batman in front of the window and sparked the lighter, extending it in front of him menacingly. "Do you want my opinion? You need to lighten up." With that, he tossed the lighter, which ignited the caped crusader and the old rug in seconds.

This allowed them a swift escape, as Batman threw himself out the window and plummeted with the rain onto the pavement several stories below. Wasting no time, Scarecrow had them outside and in the getaway car. Luckily, there was a spare key in the visor, and they sped down the street in the direction of where they had left their car.

Slow down! We're attracting attention; we don't need that.

You're the one who's been bitching about getting home for the past few hours.

Not letting up for a second, Scarecrow turned a fifteen-minute drive back to Jonathan's car into a five-minute one before finally retreating to his place in the back of their mind. Of course, on principle, Jonathan was still irritated with Scarecrow for behaving so recklessly, then leaving him to deal with any potential consequences. Still, he was glad for the saved time.

By this point, Jonathan was so frenzied with panic about El's wellbeing that he couldn't even think about their own run-in with the Batman. Still ten minutes away from home, he tried to call her cell once again. Still no answer.

Why the fuck won't she pick up?

Scarecrow didn't respond, finally picking up just how agitated the whole situation had made his counterpart. Best not to rile him up further.

Jonathan nudged the car faster. Only a few minutes away, but it felt like forever. He was so frantic to get home and see Elianna safe that he couldn't even think of what he would do if she weren't. No game plan, not even a shadow of one because she's okay. Or so he kept telling himself.

[that-one-girl-behind-you]

For the otp ask meme - 3, 7, 16, 21 with jgm?

3-Most common argument?

For illicio it's definitely Jon's lack of self preservation, Gerry's not letting him live the rib thing anytime soon, and when Martin joins in with Jon's best hits like "went to have tea with Mike Crew" and "set off to map the miles and miles of tunnels under the institute alone", it's just a Jon roast fest. Sometimes Jon manages to shift the focus to one of them because Gerry and Martin also do their share of dumb stuff, but most of the time it's just him pretending to be offended at their jabs while actually enjoying the fussing.

In Two Sugars it's the myriad of illegal and slightly dangerous things Jon and Gerry took as normal before Martin came into their lives, because when Gertrude Robinson has a hand in raising you, your sense of what's a normal amount of lawbreaking is a bit skewed.

They don't argue too much in Runaways, but when they do it's usually for dumb domestic stuff like "Gerry you left a wet towel on the bathroom floor *again*" "Well yes, I forgot because I saw a spider on the mirror and suddenly realized your creepy godmother was spying on me, Martin"

7-What’s the first thing that changes when they realize they have feelings for the other?

Answered here for illicio!

In Two Sugars, Gerry tried to suppress it because he didn't want to ruin the friendship with Jon. When Jon started to fall for Martin, he got very defensive and argumentative whenever Martin was around (basically the "get out of my archive" clip). Martin is an emotionally stable human being and actually started trying to show his feelings for them like a normal person, talking and having little gestures of affection towards them.

In Runaways, Gerry realizes he has feelings for Jon and Martin first, and he also realized they're head over heels in love with each other, so he just... Takes a step back to let them figure it out. Jon and Martin have no idea they have feelings for Gerry until after he comes back from Italy, and they have no idea how to deal with it, they became a couple almost naturally, how does one show someone they like-like him?!?

16-Who wants to stay in bed just a little longer?

For illicio it's definitely Gerry, he likes watching the two of them still asleep and looking at peace for once, and he sometimes reflects in how his life didn't end up badly at all.

For Two Sugars and Runaways it's Jon, this man has never and will never voluntarily be awake and functional before noon and everyone else is going to have to learn to deal with that.

21-Who is more likely to start dancing with the other?

Ahhhh this one is so good!

In illicio it's Martin, I feel. It takes Jon and Gerry a bit by surprise the first time it happens, but not even the Lonely was able to drain Martin's romantic vein.

In Two Sugars it's Gerry! Martin and Jon will hear music start out of nowhere in the flat and just know they're in for a sudden dance party.

In Runaways it's Jon actually, he used to do it to cheer Martin up when they were six, and it never really stopped.

[him-e]

Do you think Dany’s and Rey’s endings have anything in common? I feel like they’re both characters whose endings were mishandled and ended up carrying some sexist implications

They’re two sides of the same coin. 

Dany was punished for having too much individual power that wasn’t given to her by a higher (patriarchal) authority, for not needing and not searching validation from said higher authority, for putting herself and her ambitions before anyone and anything else, for refusing to defer, for rebelling against the status quo, for daring to want everything---power and love. The narrative frames her romantic love for Jon as her only Achille’s heel, and trusting Jon is what ultimately kills her, but her fatal flaw(*) wasn’t falling in love per se---it was not putting that love above her quest for power; not sacrificing everything else on the altar of romantic love; not loving in a feminine, submissive way, if you will. 

(*) before anyone goes “NO her fatal flaw was being CRUEL/MAD/TYRANNICAL ETC.: please bear with me, I know what Dany’s arc is *supposed* to mean in a moral sense, but what I’m trying to do here is reading between the lines of the accidental subtext here, rather than the intentional moral/political message

On the opposite end of the spectrum you have Rey, who was “rewarded” for being a good little disciple, a good little daughter, a good little girl (who needs to stay a girl forever to be “good”), someone who triumphed by humbly accepting *help from above*. The help of the aforementioned higher patriarchal authority, “all the jedi” before her, elder, wiser, stronger, and way more powerful than she could ever be on her own, or by drawing mutual strength from her romantic soulmate (I could probably go on a tangent on why it’s so infuriating that the writers stripped her of ANY transformative power stemming from romantic love, which was HER own thing, something she cherished and actively pursued and that represented her personal growth from girl to woman, to turn her into a passive vessel for typically masculine-coded aggressive power, benevolently bestowed from the above and only superficially passed off as *non violent* because she was JUST bouncing Palpatine’s Evil Lightning back to him or something).

I scare quoted “rewarded”, because what was her reward, actually? A family’s name and a pilgrimage to the place where “it all started” (not her story of course, the story of the heroes of the old generation, you know, the ones that really matter). A classic patriarchal legacy that doesn’t belong to her and which she was written in permanent reverent worship of because she must be an avatar for the (predominantly adult male) nerdy audience. Eternal childhood and innocence, with her soulmate and object of desire conveniently dead so she won’t risk yielding to temptation and being defiled, not even in a post-endgame fan fantasy.

Long story short, Rey accepted to be a humble vessel and a good girl, and she was rewarded with a fake happily ever after. Dany misbehaved, put herself first, said FUCK NO, I’M NOT THE ONE WHO SHOULD BEG “BE WITH ME”, I’M THE ONE *YOU* SHOULD BEG TO BE WITH YOU, I AM THE HERO OF THE STORY AND I WON’T ASK FOR PERMISSION, and she was punished with downfall and death.

One female hero was ultimately just a figurehead to indirectly celebrate the malecentric heroic narratives that came before her; the other was built up season after season to become the ultimate hero of the story and the creator of a new order, only to be turned upside down and crushed (because revolutionaries are *inherently* evil am I right?), while the good old status quo is safely restored with a bit of redecorating. One female hero is infantilised and put on a virgin mary pedestal, the other got the classic madwoman in the attic treatment. What’s there not to love?

On a side note, I believe Rey and Dany’s arcs suffered, ironically, from a lack of acknowledgement that they’re in fact female heroes, and that their stories inherently carry a different subtext because they’re female heroes, and that traditionally masculine tragedies (or even happy endings!) don’t necessarily work for female characters the way they work for male ones. They tried to slap Luke’s endgame onto Rey (single & happy because he has fRENDSHIP!, peacefully resolving his complex relationship with his now dead nemesis!) (but at the same time, they deliberately skipped all the aspects of ROTJ Luke that conveyed his growth into an adult man) and the classic *tragic male hero* cautionary tale à la MacBeth onto Dany. In both cases the semi-equivalent male narrative is, well, perhaps not harmless but significantly less problematic, because it isn’t weighted down by adjacent sexist tropes, and because certain endgames are supposed to subvert the idea of *masculine victory* and don’t translate SO well in a feminine context where cultural expectations are radically different. In Rey’s case, they first teased a heroine’s journey and then pivoted around to retcon it into a standard hero’s journey, except they did a poor job even with that (imagine Luke’s existential victory in ROTJ being “I am all the Jedi”, imagine a young male hero whose coming of age arc consists in learning he doesn’t have enough power on his own and needs to be aided by a bunch of old ghost dudes). In Dany’s case, it’s twice as annoying because they consciously used her for years as the show’s flagship for *female empowerment*, and she’s a character who, in-narrative, constantly grapples with the reality of being a woman and the misogyny that surrounds her, so there’s really no excuse for this lack of self-awareness re: the sexist implications of her final fate.

[soveryanon]

Reviewing time for MAG171!

- … Yeah, reasoning that “The Gardener” would be the worst title for a Flesh episode was a correct hunch, and the induced feeling was indeed “Ewwwwwwwwwww”.

Amazing contrast between the locus amoenus, with wind (that we could occasionally hear through the windchime), plants, maybe a stream gurgling (I think I heard some water?), Jared’s wheelbarrow, birds chirping (regarding the species, Alex said they were “Meat Birds”.)… and the whimpers, moans and sobs of pain, plus that terrifying scream followed by weeping when Jared took care of the “pruning”. Jonny, why.

- We’ve had a few unique “statement” formats in the journey: The Stranger’s poem (MAG165), The End’s coroner report (MAG168), and now The Flesh’s… botanical textbook? I felt like this one was a bit different in the way Jared really didn’t seem to exert much control over the domain (since he asked Jon to “hear about [his] garden”), unlike, for example, Oliver, who had given his own observations; and because… the victims felt so far away from a direct narration? There were layers upon layers narratively removing us from them (… although we could physically hear their moans of pain, directly in front of us): Jon giving the domain’s statement, and the domain explaining how to handle these people. The only direct glimpse of them was the small section towards the end of each case. Jared mentioned that the current rule seemed to be “just people using each other up”, which Jon repeated when proceeding with the smiting, and it really found an echo in the way the statements have felt less… subjective, and instead removed and distant? Not really allowing people’s voices to be heard, except for a brief moment? I wonder if it was a Flesh-thing, or if it’s installing something as they get closer to the Panopticon – the principle of this episode felt so Beholding, observing from afar things that were happening right in front of us…

- The domain’s statement was extremely organised every time:

* The genus and species for the plant-people (the root of their fear in Latin-ish and their own name), followed by the cultivated variety (the exterior result). It was incredibly nasty since in the nomenclature, the “species” of plants… doesn’t take an uppercase. And here it was people’s name, as if they were reduced to simple objects and common nouns.

* The way to prepare the living conditions: soil, temperature, light.

* The way to ensure growth and the necessary regular “care”.

* People’s inner experience and feelings in the state they’re in.

* The observed result, advertisement-like.

… It took me a while, and I’m really not sure about it, but I heard/understood:

* “Cultivation notes for [Fortisium] reese, commonly known as the ‘Gristlebloom Orchid’”: with the mention of “aggressive dehydration” and “they must always and forever be more”, toxic culture about the standards regarding muscle mass, with extreme and aggressive body-building. * “Cultivation notes for Gracilium patricia, commonly known as the ‘Bone Rose’”: toxic culture about thinness. * “Cultivation notes for [Sicarium] leopold, commonly known as the ‘Cutaway Tulip’”: toxic culture regarding plastic surgery, especially to remove traces of ageing. * “Cultivation notes for Supremium maeve, commonly known as the ‘Lily of the Damned’”: that one was a bit trickier, and seemed to be a mix of the pain coming from disability, and the obsession of a separation between body and soul?

I’m not sure about the names (my Latin is old, rusty, unreliable), but as far as I can tell through digging a bit, the roots would make sense for each: “fortis” (strong), “gracilis” (thin, tight, skinny, lean), “sicarius” (murderer) or “sica” (dagger), “superus” (above, higher; “supremus honor”, the superlative, referring to the last honours given to the deceased). … Except the declensions don’t work. “Fortisium” isn’t a form that can exist at all, as far as I can tell, same for “supremium”.

But you know what all of these have in common?

Latin words with –(i)um just slapped on to the end (regardless of whether that makes any grammatical sense).

- So. I need to make a whole separate Point about it, because if I’m right, it’s absolutely hilarious: The Eye, and Jonathan “Admittedly, if Martin speaks Polish in the same way he ‘speaks Latin’ then he might be talking nonsense again” Sims, might not know shit about Latin either.

(I’m not shaming anyone for not knowing anything about Latin, I’m not super confident about what I’m saying here either (it’s old stuff and I was very privileged to study it a bit!): but I’m shaming Jon HARD for complaining about Martin’s lack of knowledge of it… if it turns out that he, too, was absolutely shit at it. JON.)

- I’m not sure, but I feel like Jon’s tone has been getting more and more gleeful when telling the “statement” recently? It was a bit more pitying/sympathetic at the beginning of the journey, while there has been a form of… ravishment and tender, carnivorous pride? with The Desolation and now The Flesh. So, uhoh. Is Jon getting desensitised again along the journey, as he re-experiences the Fears…?

- The idea of Martin meeting Jared had been thrown around for fun and almost like a joke (Alex voicing two characters in the same room, interacting with each other), I’m so glad it happened! I still can’t understand 95% of what Jared is saying, even without the Distortion’s static! Yoohoo!

And the tiny thing I like about Jared is how… contrarily to Jonah’s complaints (MAG160: “I was a little put out when that idiot Jared Hopworth misinterpreted my letters and attacked the Institute too soon, before you were even out of the hospital” – Jonah, it wasn’t because Jared was an “idiot”, it’s because YOU messed up that one), Jared is a quick-thinker, very fast at understanding the situation, very straightforwardly logical when it comes to Jon seeking him out?

(MAG131) JARED: … What do you want? ARCHIVIST: I, uh… I want a favour. JARED: For letting me out? ARCHIVIST: Yes. JARED: Alright. ARCHIVIST: Oh. O–okay. D–do you need to know… wh–what it is? JARED: Not much you could want, comin’ to me. Put summat in. Take summat out. Which is it? ARCHIVIST: Take something out. A bone. A–a rib, probably. So–something I won’t miss.

(MAG171) ARCHIVIST: You know why I’m here? [WINDCHIME IN THE BACKGROUND] JARED: I can guess. Took a bit to figure out which rib was aching. But when I did… well. Obvious, really. [OMINOUS SHIFTING, CRACKING AND POPPING] Why shouldn’t you want it back? ARCHIVIST: [SHARP EXHALE] It’s too late for that now…! JARED: Not really, but… whatever. […] So, is there any way this doesn’t end in me dead? I’m guessing that’s on the docket if you’re here. Unless you’re just here to smell the flowers.

Jared had assumed Jon was here for the rib, and it would have been a logical thought (Jon had the power to get back what was his)… and Jared immediately corrected his assumption when Jon explained that it wasn’t the case, leading to Jared deducing that Jon was just here to kill him. I’m not sure many avatars would have been able to understand this that quickly.

- Fun thing about Jared’s gym is that both Martin and Jon knew about it separately: Martin read the statements about “J” (MAG090), and Jon had been directly told about it by Jared in MAG131:

(MAG090, Ross Davenport) “It was text only, and read, ‘Your perfect body is here. Become all you can be.’ […] The man who stood there was, without a doubt, the biggest guy I had ever seen, and bear in mind I spend my time hanging out with bodybuilders. He had to hunch down to fit through the doorway, and was almost twice as wide as I was. Most of his body was covered in a loose tracksuit, and I could see clear stitch marks where it had been enlarged for him. Embroidered onto the chest was the letter ‘J’. […] J was there, standing his full height. A distended, jagged body bared in all its twisted grandeur, and he shook his head in frustration. He said something, I think, but I couldn’t make it out. It might have been ‘too soon’. I try to remember some of them in detail, the confusion of limbs and joints and muscles, but all I can remember is the happy, joyful way they called to me. Told me that the pain was worth it. It makes me sick that a small, sharp part of me wishes I’d stayed to listen.”

(MAG131) JARED: Some of my mates, the ones I helped find their proper bodies, they listened, and went to feed the hunger. Not me though. I never was that ambitious.

(MAG171) JARED: So, is there any way this doesn’t end in me dead? I’m guessing that’s on the docket if you’re here. Unless you’re just here to smell the flowers. [WINDCHIME IN THE BACKGROUND] ARCHIVIST: … No. I can’t let you carry on like this. What happened, Jared? I thought you only worked on the willing. JARED: … What? Says who? Oooh, the gym! [THROATY LAUGH] I mean, yeah. They wanted to change, but they were still scared. First at what I’d do to them, then at what would happen if the world couldn’t handle their beautiful new bodies. Not like I was doing it out of the goodness of my heart. [SNORT] Hearts.

BUT WOW JON, WHY THAT ASSUMPTION?? Jon knew perfectly well already that Jared… hadn’t limited himself to the gym, that he had been, and still was, an Avatar Of Many Talents.

(MAG017) ARCHIVIST: I asked Martin to try and hunt down Mr. Adekoya himself for a follow-up, but have been informed that he passed away in 2006. He was found lying dead in the middle of the road on the night of April 17th. Despite the fact that there were no crushing or trauma marks on the body, the inquest ruled it a hit-and-run car accident due to the mangled position in which he was found. It was a closed casket funeral.

(MAG049, Gregory Pryor) “Hector looked at the paper, typed something into his phone and threw it away as he walked off. It was an address in Stockwell, and an instruction: ‘Ask for Jared.’ […] He pulled back the tarpaulin covering Hector’s body and cracked his knuckles. I don’t think I’ll ever forget the sound of him doing that. Then… he reached into Hector. No cutting, no saws, he just… reached in. And I realised why the room was soundproofed. Because it turned out Hector wasn’t dead. And it was going to be a while before Jared got around to his lungs or throat. […] There is… no way to describe what it feels like, to have bone pulled out of you through your unbroken skin. […] I slammed the door shut and ran into the street, through the people still wandering Stockwell in the evening, and away. My now empty left arm hanging limply by my side. I didn’t stop running for a very long time. […] The doctors amputated the arm in the end, and I’m getting used to the prosthetic. But I can still feel it sometimes, like it’s still there. I know it’s just phantom limb syndrome but… sometimes I swear it feels like my bone’s still out there, twisting in someone else’s arm…” ARCHIVIST: Statement ends. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to assume this butcher to be Jared Hopworth. It seems that if Mr Adekoya’s account from statement #9991006 is accurate, then Hopworth has found new ways to profit from his abilities in the eight years since his acquisition of The Boneturner’s Tale.

(MAG131) JARED: I wandered around for a bit. Worked a lotta jobs where it didn’t matter what you looked like. There’s always a spot for someone who can get rid of people. You must have heard about me. I left plenty of people scared and crying, itching to tell someone what happened to ‘em. Some of them must have made it to you. […] The letters started comin’ in about two years ago. Good white paper, large print. Nice and simple. Dunno who sent them; they were never signed, and I dunno how they kept finding me. There was never much in them; normally just a name, and a place, or a time. I ignored the first couple, but they kept coming, and eventually I got curious. So, I followed the instructions in one of ‘em. I found Regan Hasnain of 70 Clairmont Gardens, and that got rid of most of my doubts. I don’t blame people for thinking that all bones are the same, most people don’t have much experience – but it’s not true. There are good bones, and there are bad bones, and Regan Hasnain had some very good bones in her. They were solid, healthy, and they jumped at my touch. I didn’t doubt the letters again. They came pretty regular after that. And they always led to summat good. Quality bones, a new mate, or some unlucky fool who wouldn’t look at me for the fear. It got so I trusted them.

He’s been a butcher (with a bit of “artisty” vibe already, in the way he was twisting bones), he’s been a coach/gym adviser, he’s been an assassin-for-hire, and now a gardener. Terrible man, and wow, the range, the flexibility. So what the heck, Jon. Why the focus on the “willing”, you knew it wasn’t true – or at least, not all of it.

… Was it once again a case of Jon trying to hope that there were a few mostly harmless avatars? A bit like how he behaved towards Oliver? Hence the focus on the “willing”?

(MAG171) ARCHIVIST: … No. I can’t let you carry on like this. What happened, Jared? I thought you only worked on the willing. JARED: … What? Says who? […] Anyway: willing, unwilling; don’t work like that anymore, does it? You made sure of that. MARTIN: That’s… not fair. JARED: And what? MARTIN: I… JARED: [CRACK] MARTIN: I, uh… JARED: So what? Don’t really matter now, does it? ARCHIVIST: … No. [INHALE] No, it doesn’t.

After all, if avatars could hypothetically survive without causing much pain to “unwilling” people, it would mean that Jon might be able to sustain himself in another way than by terrorising “unwilling” people. It just feels a bit surprising, indeed, that it would still be a concern of Jon’s (a preoccupation that followed him for the entirety of season 4)… given that they’re in the apocalypse right now. But there is also still the underlying question of what would happen to people, and to Jon himself, if the apocalypse was to be undone and, even regardless of this, the fact that Jon seems to be evaluating which avatars “deserve” to get smote.

I mostly wonder: if they hadn’t walked on Jared causing even more pain to people, and if Jared had been more passive in the garden, would Jon have spared him? Jon presented it as his reason for smiting him, but I’m… really not sure it was his actual one…

(- Jared’s jokes… “Not like I was doing it out of the goodness of my heart. [SNORT] Hearts.”…

We knew he canonically had Many, Melanie had mentioned it:

(MAG131) MELANIE: I stabbed him in three different hearts. Didn’t work. If you want to go hunting for a fourth, knock yourself out.

But that joke… Jared, please.)

- I know there were many screams about homophobic Jared in the fandom, but personally:

(MAG171) JARED: Oh! And who’s this? Your boyfriend? MARTIN: Hum– ARCHIVIST: Yes. Actually. JARED: Oh. [A BIRD’S CHIRP FALLS FLAT] Mm. … So, is there any way this doesn’t end in me dead?

… I heard it as either “Jared would have said that anyway if one of them had been a woman” and/or Jared was Shooting His Shot with Martin.

- Jon&Martin Are Together, season 5 edition:

(MAG161) ARCHIVIST: No, it’s– [SIGH] I love you, I just… I need more time.

(MAG162) ARCHIVIST: “The screams may linger on the distant breeze, and your eye may wander beyond the curtains from time to time, but you and the one you love are, it seems… safe. […] There within the thing that pretends to be a cabin is the one you love. […] The one you love is always near, so close that refuge sometimes feels a prison.

(MAG164) ARCHIVIST: What do you want. HELEN: To say hello! And check up on the happy couple~ [LAUGHS AND LAUGHS, ECHOING] ARCHIVIST: [SIGH] HELEN: I always knew you crazy kids would make it work!

(MAG167) MARTIN: Ssso. If you say Gertrude wouldn’t have been able to go on without a reason… ARCHIVIST: Yes, Martin, you are my reason. MARTIN: Just wanted to make you say it…!

(MAG170) MARTIN: I’m… I’m in love, eh! I am in love, and I will not forget that, I will – not – forget. I am Martin Black–

(MAG171) JARED: Not really, but… whatever. … Oh! And who’s this? Your boyfriend? MARTIN: Hum– ARCHIVIST: Yes. Actually.

(+ Technically, Jude’s “valet”: it was derogatory, but at the same time… her own frame of reference was her devotion for Agnes as a god/woman, so.)

- Martin, polite boy who says “Please” and manages to get what he wanted:

(MAG171) JARED: Right. So are we doing this or what? I reckon I can get a few good hits in before I go down. Give you a little something to remember me by. ARCHIVIST: … No you won’t. JARED: [HUFF] No. Maybe not. But you’ve gotta try, haven’t you? MARTIN: Please don’t. JARED: What? MARTIN: You’ve already made your mark. [SILENCE] [WINDCHIME IN THE BACKGROUND] JARED: [THROATY LAUGH] Fine. Consider it a favour.

(Also, really laughing that Martin is canonically “little”. At least to Jared (“Don’t fret yourself, little man.”), which, uh, might not actually say much.)

- :D The return of Jon reminding Martin to not touch dangerous stuff!

(MAG113) MARTIN: Ooh! Ooh! There’s a book in this one. ARCHIVIST: [HASTILY] Don’t… touch it! MARTIN: Ooh… OH! Right. Yes. ARCHIVIST: Let’s… not touch any books we don’t know. MARTIN: Right. ARCHIVIST: Step back.

(MAG165) ARCHIVIST: Either way, best not to actually climb onto the thing, if we could help it. MARTIN: Fine – by – me, eh! Never really liked merry-go-rounds anyway.

(MAG171) ARCHIVIST: Don’t – touch – anything. MARTIN: I wasn’t planning to, uh…! Are they still… alive?

Martin…

- Martin stayed for the “statement”! They learned from MAG170, to prevent him from getting lost again, uh…

- Technically, we didn’t “learn” anything new regarding Jon-in-the-new-world: he admitted since the season 5 trailer that to some part of him, the horror felt “right”. He mentioned that “guilt” was protecting him from embracing the things he was made to experience. We know he consumes fears, is fed by it. There have been multiple jabs from avatars about how Jon is tailored for this world because of his connection to The Eye and/or his role as “Archivist”(/Archive) and/or as the tool used to bring the apocalypse, leading him to be at his peak in the current events – in control, above all other avatars, all-knowing:

(MAG160, Jonah Magnus) “Don’t worry, Jon. You’ll get used to it here – in the world that we have made.”

(Season 5 trailer) MARTIN: Are you still… [SIGH] “feeling it”? Seeing everything? ARCHIVIST: Yes, I, I’m trying not to, but… all of the fear, th–the anguish, i–it just… [INHALE] It keeps coming at me in waves, rolling over me, filling my head with such… awful sights. MARTIN: … I’m sorry. That sounds… [SMALL EXHALE] That sounds horrible. ARCHIVIST: … I wish it was, Martin. I really wish it was. … But it feels… right. [MIRTHLESS HUFF]

(MAG161) ARCHIVIST: … Besides… G… [SHAKY EXHALE] Grief… is healthy. I–if nothing else, it pushes away the other feelings that that… thing wants me to experience.

(MAG163) MARTIN: … How do you know all this stuff? [SILENCE] ARCHIVIST: Not sure…! I just do.

(MAG164) MARTIN: A–alright, but… but how do you know that– ARCHIVIST: I just do. I just know it. [SILENCE] [SHUFFLING] MARTIN: You’ve been knowing a lot lately. ARCHIVIST: … Yes. MARTIN: A lot more than you used to. ARCHIVIST: Y… [SIGH] Yeah. And it, it feels more… deliberate. L–like I have more control now. MARTIN: Okay. So… how much can you see? What else do you know? ARCHIVIST: Uh… Maybe everything…! MARTIN: What’d you mean, “everything”? ARCHIVIST: I don’t… Ask me a question. O–one I can’t… possibly know already. […] HELEN: Hello, Jon! [FOOTSTEPS] [THE DOOR CREAKS CLOSE] ARCHIVIST: [INHALE] How did you find us? HELEN: Oh! I thought you’d know everything by this point. […] And please: my name is “Helen”. ARCHIVIST: Like you said, I can know everything now. Including how much of a lie that really is. HELEN: Don’t mistake “complication” for “falsehood”, dear Archivist.

(MAG165) MARTIN: But. You said we needed to go through these places. … Is that even going to work here? ARCHIVIST: Uh… [EXHALE] We need to go through them… metaphorically. MARTIN: Mm… ! ARCHIVIST: Psychologically, we need to… “experience” them.

(MAG166) HELEN: We’re all here, Martin. The Stranger; The Buried; The Desolation; all of us. But The Eye still rules. All this fear is being performed for its benefit. And so, there are now exactly two roles available in this new world of ours: the watcher, and the watched. Subject, and object. Those who are feared, and those who are afraid. And Jon, well… he is part of The Eye; a very important part. And he’s able to, shall we say… shift its focus. Turn the one into the other. And for those of us whose very existence relies on being feared, well… To be turned into a victim destroys us utterly. And very, very painfully.

(MAG168, Oliver Banks) ARCHIVIST: “This report is being sent to: [STATIC FADES] The Great Eye, that watches all who linger in terror, and gorges itself on the sufferings of those under its unrelenting, stuporous gaze! And its Archive, which draws knowledge of this suffering unto itself.”

(MAG169) JUDE: You’re not scared, though, are you, Archivist? ARCHIVIST: … I can feel the pain of every person you have trapped here. My own isn’t all that different. JUDE: Yeah, but you like seeing their pain, don’t you? Their fear? ARCHIVIST: … Yes. JUDE: You and that stupid Eye, god, you make me sick! Lording it over everybody like you own the place? You’re just leeches, voyeurs, parasites on the real monsters. […] Oooh, I see! I get it. You finally get a sniff of power, and the first thing you do is try to settle some old scores. MARTIN: [LOUDER COUGHS] JUDE: Play the big man, get off on good old-fashioned petty revenge~! […] I’m happy in this world. I belong here. And so do you. MARTIN: [COUGHS] [STATIC RISING: LOW AND SPIRALLING, PRESSURING] JUDE: Uh! Listen… Listen… [BREATHLESS CHUCKLING] You’re enjoying this, right? ‘Course you are! You want to use those powers of yours to hurt people, you want to murder everybody who can’t fight back at you now? I can help you…! [DIGITAL GLITCHING SOUNDS] MARTIN: Just DIE already!! JUDE: You’re… not… better… than… me! [SCREAMS]

(MAG171) ARCHIVIST: It takes a skilled gardener to get them to grow like this. The curling, cascading intricacies of collagen and marrow… it takes devotion. MARTIN: Jon. [FOOTSTEPS STOP] [WHIMPERS IN THE BACKGROUND] ARCHIVIST: … S–sorry. MARTIN: You sound like you think they’re beautiful. [FOOTSTEPS RESUME] ARCHIVIST: Don’t you? [SILENCE] […] JARED: Anyway: willing, unwilling; don’t work like that anymore, does it? You made sure of that. MARTIN: That’s… not fair. JARED: And what? MARTIN: I… JARED: [CRACK] MARTIN: I, uh… JARED: So what? Don’t really matter now, does it? ARCHIVIST: … No. [INHALE] No, it doesn’t. […] JARED: [LONG MEATY INHALE, EXHALE] Cheers for that! ARCHIVIST: … Don’t. MARTIN: Jon, are you… alright? ARCHIVIST: Yeah, hum… Sorry. MARTIN: No, it, it’s alright. JARED: Is it really that bad? Seeing what I’ve done here? Or… uh! Is it maybe that deep down, you think it’s as beautiful as I do? ARCHIVIST: Shut up! [WINDCHIME IN THE BACKGROUND] JARED: It’s a shame…! Who’s gonna look after the garden when I’m gone? There are a few real pretty ones. Who knows: maybe they’ll uproot and start landscaping themselves…! That’d be nice. Then again, maybe it’ll just grow wild. ARCHIVIST: I don’t care. JARED: … No. You don’t, do you? ARCHIVIST: … I can’t… There’s too many. I can’t save everyone. [EXHALE] I c–, I can’t save anyone.

Jon judging that something terrifying was “beautiful” is not new: he described the Dark Sun that way… but then he was at his peak of Beholding!avatar-casually-traumatising-innocents. Right now, I’m concerned about the mix of little slips (Jon implying the garden was “beautiful” and describing it with ravishment, almost falling into statement-mode even though there was no static yet), Jon’s reluctance to try and intervene from the start, and the fact he sounds like he’s… lost hope of doing anything worthwhile or good for the situation. He was defiant and a bit hopeful back when they left the cabin (“Gertrude didn’t think so. […] But she’s dead. Let’s find out for ourselves.”) and that part seems to be eroding. We know that the statements seem to be affecting him (Martin noticed something afterwards, and was concerned again after the smiting) but I’m fearing that Jon is currently losing himself a bit, at least in… forgetting to reject the things that used to disgust him. Re-traumatisation, re-desensibilisation as they’re going through all the domains? If it’s the case, in what state will Jon reach the Panopticon…

- I’m a bit squinting at Jon’s wording here:

(MAG171) JARED: It’s a shame…! Who’s gonna look after the garden when I’m gone? There are a few real pretty ones. Who knows: maybe they’ll uproot and start landscaping themselves…! That’d be nice. Then again, maybe it’ll just grow wild. ARCHIVIST: I don’t care. JARED: … No. You don’t, do you? ARCHIVIST: … I can’t… There’s too many. I can’t save everyone. [EXHALE] I c–, I can’t save anyone. JARED: If you say so. … So.

Because it seems to me that Jon was implying that he could, in theory, save people from the domains, on a case-by-case basis? He didn’t say it was impossible per se: he first said there were “too many”, and that he couldn’t save “everyone”, before concluding that he couldn’t save “anyone”. But he managed with Martin! (I don’t think that it could work in practice: the world is now ruled by the Fears, so “freeing” someone from a Fear would likely just lead to them getting caught by another domain, or dying/disappearing/collapsing because they can’t sustain themself, etc. But, in theory, it felt like Jon was admitting that he might have the power to save punctual people with his powers?)

Jon has pointed out to Martin, multiples times, that they were in-between the domains and that it wasn’t worth it to try and interact with people. Although he has been interacting with avatars, Jon has been very reluctant to even try to do this with regular people, or even to know what was happening to them once they had left the domains:

(MAG163) ARCHIVIST: I–ignore them, they’re not… Just ignore them. MARTIN: … They’re not… real? [VOICES SHOUTING IN THE DISTANCE] ARCHIVIST: [MIRTHLESS CHUCKLING] No…! They’re real; they were… normal people before the– … Before me. But now they’re here, meat for the grinder. I just mean there’s no point… talking to them. MARTIN: Don’t be a prick, Jon. Hey! I’m, I’m sorry about him. He’s–he’s going through a lot – well… we all are, I suppose, but well… “Hi”, I guess. [SILENCE] Hello? ARCHIVIST: They won’t hear you, Martin, they’re all… too busy waiting to die. […] MARTIN: What’re you doing here? [PLASTIC RATTLING] It’s dangerous. Could… get yourself blown up, like all these poor… [PLASTIC RATTLING] Who d’you think they were? Really don’t see why they can’t just… go round, picked a better place to… [STEPS THROUGH LIQUID] [SIGH] I guess there… aren’t really any “better” places anymore, are there? [STEPS THROUGH LIQUID] It’s all this. Or worse, or… or different.

(MAG164) ARCHIVIST: We’re fine. MARTIN: A–are we? I mean, that place is– … I don’t, I don’t feel fine, okay, and you were there a long time doing your… y–you–your guidebook, which, you know, I get it, but that place is… I–it’s–it’s infectious, and, I don’t– ARCHIVIST: We’re not infected, Martin, that place, it– … It isn’t for us. […] MARTIN: Are we safe, traveling like this? ARCHIVIST: Yes… Yes, sort of, we’re… I don’t know how to phrase it, we’re… something between a pilgrim and a moth. We can walk through these little worlds of terror, watching them; separate, and untouched. MARTIN: [NERVOUS CHUCKLING] That’s not as comforting as you might think. ARCHIVIST: I like it better than the alternative…!

(MAG165) MARTIN: What about the merry-go-round? With her gone, is it, is it still th– ARCHIVIST: I–I don’t know! MARTIN: [CHUCKLING] Yes you do! ARCHIVIST: I–I don’t… want to know, plea– We need to go. [BAG JOSTLING] Please.

(MAG169) MARTIN: Oh, it’s not just your revenge though, is it? Destroying her… it would help all those people in there, wouldn’t it? ARCHIVIST: … Maybe? It’s… [INHALE] Like I said, I can’t see the future. It wouldn’t free them, if that’s what you’re asking. “Free” doesn’t really exist in this place. MARTIN: Apart from us. ARCHIVIST: I suppose. I–in a sense, though… [CHUCKLING] how much of that is because we are trapped in our own quest to– MARTIN: Okay, let’s, let’s not dive into another… ontological debate right now, not here.

(MAG171) JARED: It’s a shame…! Who’s gonna look after the garden when I’m gone? There are a few real pretty ones. Who knows: maybe they’ll uproot and start landscaping themselves…! That’d be nice. Then again, maybe it’ll just grow wild. ARCHIVIST: I don’t care. JARED: … No. You don’t, do you? ARCHIVIST: … I can’t… There’s too many. I can’t save everyone. [EXHALE] I c–, I can’t save anyone. JARED: If you say so. … So. I guess that just leaves revenge, then, don’t it? Can’t say I blame you. That’s all life is, really, innit? Just people using each other up. ARCHIVIST: Spare me the crude philosophy. […] MARTIN: But all the people inside? ARCHIVIST: Killing Nolan wouldn’t have made it stop. It would just leave… unsupervised. MARTIN: Mm. [MOANS OF PAIN IN THE BACKGROUND] [WINDCHIME IN THE BACKGROUND] [SILENCE] ARCHIVIST: [SIGH] MARTIN: Jon. We are… doing good, right? Making things better? ARCHIVIST: … I don’t know if that was… ever an option.

… Technically, Jon could have known already in MAG169 what happened to an “unsupervised” domain – since it had happened already with the Not!Them. Why the reluctance to know about that? (I’m mostly wondering if there is a non-negligible Beholding part of Jon just plain refusing to make Fearful Resources disappear, thus him not even trying to improve people’s situations overall… Smiting avatars is providing a new form of fear, of entertainment to The Eye: it’s a novelty, something unique, the Feared made Fearful! It seemed good, in theory, to erase avatars from existence, but in the end… it’s still feeding The Eye, since the apocalypse is still running.)

- >w< Sobbing a bit about that exchange:

(MAG171) MARTIN: Jon! ARCHIVIST: Mm? MARTIN: I need to ask you something. ARCHIVIST: Okay. MARTIN: I meant to ask. A–after the fire, actually? But, well… Then was the house and everything, and it just sort of– ARCHIVIST: What is it, Martin? MARTIN: … Why didn’t we go after the landlord guy, in the tenement? ARCHIVIST: Arthur Nolan? MARTIN: Yeah. He’s still there, right? ARCHIVIST: [SIGH] After Jude, th–the fires, I… I didn’t want to put you through anymore. MARTIN: [EXASPERATED SIGH] Don’t do that. ARCHIVIST: What? MARTIN: Don’t use me as an excuse. ARCHIVIST: I, I’m not! I just… It didn’t seem worth it. I didn’t… hate him, like I hated her. He never hurt me. MARTIN: But all the people inside? ARCHIVIST: Killing Nolan wouldn’t have made it stop. It would just leave it… unsupervised. MARTIN: Mm.

… since it could be two different things, although not contradictory. It could stem from Martin’s own issues regarding his self-worth (refusing to think that Jon could try to accommodate Martin out of love/worry/care for him), and/or… Martin being spot-on about Jon’s tendency to hide himself, hide his actual motivations and feelings behind “more acceptable” pretences.

Jon lies and Jon hides, including to and from himself. That’s a thing he’s been shown to do when afraid and/or ashamed. He spent a good part of season 4 trying to convince himself that The Web or Beholding were manipulating him into attacking innocents, without leaving him any choice – and he still displayed the choices of going out for walks, going out for a coffee, not warning anyone that it was happening behind their backs. It could be the same thing: Jon trying to rationalise his own actions, because he’s pushed by a new influence, that he doesn’t fully acknowledge. Martin is suspicious, at least, so I really hope that it will lead to him acting on it – re-evaluating the “use” of the smiting plan, which is now officially only for “revenge” and feels hollower and hollower every time? Martin pushed him in that direction, so whether Jon is simply following Martin’s moral stance (because he doesn’t trust his own) or actually compelled by Beholding or something, it clearly feels like a mistake by now. Martin, you’re his anchor, say something! ;w;

(At the very least, I don’t think they’ll be as straightforward with Jonah: if the smiting feels unsatisfying now, there is no way it would feel fulfilling with him at the Panopticon.)

- Compilation of Jon’s stance about the different avatars since the apocalypse, and how the smiting proceeded:

(MAG162) MARTIN: Look, Jon, I… I, I know it hurts, but you’ve just got to… ARCHIVIST: No, no, lo–look… I, I–I was listening, and I–I was filled with this… hatred. This anger; I–I wanted to leave, and hunt down Elias, a–and…! MARTIN: W–wow, okay…

(MAG164) HELEN: I’m afraid the Archivist is too powerful now. ARCHIVIST: [SIGH] HELEN: If he tried to travel through my corridors, it would not go well, for any of us. ARCHIVIST: But mainly for you. HELEN: Ouuh! [CHUCKLE] Is that a threat? ARCHIVIST: No. HELEN: Mm! Pity.

(MAG165) ARCHIVIST: … What did you say? [STATIC RISING: LOW AND SPIRALLING, PRESSURING] NOT!SASHA: [SHAKY BREATHES] I’m–I’m sorry… MARTIN: Jon? ARCHIVIST: You were wrong, you know. NOT!SASHA: [GASPS] [STATIC INCREASES] ARCHIVIST: There is more suffering than you can ever experience, so much more. The horror of your victims… NOT!SASHA: [CRIES OF PAIN] ARCHIVIST: Their constant, senseless agony… NOT!SASHA: [CRIES OF PAIN] [STATIC INCREASES] ARCHIVIST: Feel it now. Understand it. You have drawn out so much despair, and now finally, it’s your turn. [STATIC INCREASES] [DIGITAL GLITCHING SOUNDS] Ceaseless Watcher, turn your gaze upon this wretched thing! [STATIC INCREASES, WITH MORE PRESSURE] NOT!SASHA: No! No… Please, no…! [DIGITAL BURSTING, RIPPING SOUNDS] NOT!SASHA: [FADING] No…! [STATIC DECREASES AND FADES] ARCHIVIST: [PANTS] MARTIN: … Whoa–oh–oh! ARCHIVIST: I, uh… MARTIN: What was that?!

(MAG168) MARTIN: So, you… gonna smite him, then? ARCHIVIST: … Hum… MARTIN: Jon? … Jon, I said: are you going to sm– ARCHIVIST: I heard you the first time. MARTIN: And? ARCHIVIST: I… I don’t know…! MARTIN: W-Why not? Can’t you just do what you did what that “Sasha-thing”, make The Eye see him and all that? ARCHIVIST: I–I could, I think. MARTIN: … Cool, so what’s the problem then? Take another monster off the hit list, job done. ARCHIVIST: I–it’s not… that simple? […] I just, I don’t think he’s… [SIGH] I don’t know, I don’t think he’s evil. [CREAKING SOUND] MARTIN: Oh, yeah, sure, he’s probably a really kind, benevolent ruler of a hellish fear prison…! ARCHIVIST: It’s just… He helped me. Wh–when I was… He woke me up. […] Who knows – maybe he’ll try to stop us getting through the roots, and I’ll have to! MARTIN: Mm. ARCHIVIST: But I’m not going to… seek him out. At the very least, he’s earned not having me hunt him down. MARTIN: Fine. I suppose that’s… reasonable. ARCHIVIST: Now, if you’re quite done inciting me to murder? […] I… I feel… [FOOTSTEPS] No. I don’t want to destroy Oliver Banks. It wouldn’t do any good. I know that, and he never asked for this any more than I did. I feel badly for those that exist in his domain, o–of course, I do, but… At least, their suffering will be over, eventually. I can’t destroy everyone I cross paths with, it… [SIGH] No. If Oliver will not seek me out, then… I will leave him be. [TINY CHUCKLES] The avatar of Death… shall live. Martin’s going to be thrilled…!

(MAG169) MARTIN: … Right. [DISTANT SOUND OF SOMETHING COLLAPSING] Right… I just assumed this would be… Who was that landlord guy? ARCHIVIST: Arthur Nolan. He’s here, he has a… part of it, but it’s… huge. […] I… Oh, right. I–I want revenge on Jude Perry. I want to… “smite” her. Make her feel what… [SIGH] what all her victims have felt. But I’m not willing to force you to suffer for it. […] [STATIC RISES] ARCHIVIST: I’d have thought that was a mindset you would appreciate. [STATIC INCREASES] Now, feel it! All the terror and pain you’ve inflicted. JUDE: Oh, piss off– [PAINED GASP] … [STRAINED] Look, look. Wait, right? I’m sorry, okay? I… shouldn’t have burned your hand. […] [STATIC RISING: LOW AND SPIRALLING, PRESSURING] Uh! Listen… Listen… [BREATHLESS CHUCKLING] You’re enjoying this, right? ‘Course you are! You want to use those powers of yours to hurt people, you want to murder everybody who can’t fight back at you now? I can help you…! [DIGITAL GLITCHING SOUNDS] MARTIN: Just DIE already!! JUDE: You’re… not… better… than… me! [SCREAMS] [DIGITAL BURSTING, RIPPING SOUNDS] [STATIC DECREASES AND FADES] MARTIN: [COUGH] [PANTING] Is it…? ARCHIVIST: It’s over. … She’s gone.

(MAG171) [STATIC RISES] JARED: Grow well, my darlings. Grow well. [STATIC INCREASES: LOW AND SPIRALLING, PRESSURING] ARCHIVIST: Feel it. JARED: [MEATY HISS] ARCHIVIST: Feel all the terror and despair as your garden grows. Let it flow through you, and blossom! [MEATY SOUNDS] JARED: [GROANS] ARCHIVIST: Just people, using each other up! [DIGITAL GLITCHING SOUNDS] Ceaseless Watcher, turn your gaze upon this thing and drink – your – fill! JARED: [GROANS] [MEATY SOUNDS] [DIGITAL BURSTING, RIPPING SOUNDS] [STATIC DECREASES AND FADES] [WINDCHIME IN THE BACKGROUND] ARCHIVIST: [GASPS AND PANTS] MARTIN: [SOFTLY] … Jon? ARCHIVIST: I’m here. MARTIN: Are you okay? [MOAN OF PAIN IN THE BACKGROUND] ARCHIVIST: I’m… great. You? […] MARTIN: I meant to ask. A–after the fire, actually? But, well… Then was the house and everything, and it just sort of– ARCHIVIST: What is it, Martin? MARTIN: … Why didn’t we go after the landlord guy, in the tenement? ARCHIVIST: Arthur Nolan? MARTIN: Yeah. He’s still there, right? ARCHIVIST: [SIGH] After Jude, th–the fires, I… I didn’t want to put you through anymore. […] I just… It didn’t seem worth it. I didn’t… hate him, like I hated her. He never hurt me. MARTIN: But all the people inside? ARCHIVIST: Killing Nolan wouldn’t have made it stop. It would just leave… unsupervised. MARTIN: Mm.

* Jon invoked the “Ceaseless Watcher” both with the Not!Them and Jared. It’s not absolutely unheard of, but he only called it that way once in season 4; usually, he goes more with “The Eye” or “(the) Beholding”. “Ceaseless Watcher” definitely feels more ceremonial and… reminiscent of Elias marvelling about Jon’s dreams in MAG120. So, really, when Jon does the smiting, it doesn’t feel like he’s doing it for himself – but mostly as a sacrifice to his patron? It felt even worst with Jared and Jon’s “drink – your – fill!” since… yeah, The Eye is feeding from the act, uh.

* ;; Reminder that The Eye wanted Jon to leave the cabin in MAG162 (“This place wishes to be our tomb. But The Eye does not wish that. No. [STATIC INCREASES] The Eye wishes instead that it be my chrysalis.”). Which means that Jon is supposed to be evolving… towards another state of being, once again, and something that would please The Eye.

* Jon mentioned “anger” and “hatred” about Jonah and Jude, and although understandable… it also doesn’t really feel fulfilling when there is only that. Hatred/Anger, turning into violence, smiting, and then that’s it. It doesn’t change or solve anything.

* It feels like an escalation: Jon spontaneously killed the Not!Them, went after Jude on purpose, and sought out Jared… who offered reparation. Who offered to give Jon’s rib back, and Jon discarded the idea right away:

(MAG171) JARED: I can guess. Took a bit to figure out which rib was aching. But when I did… well. Obvious, really. [OMINOUS SHIFTING, CRACKING AND POPPING] Why shouldn’t you want it back? ARCHIVIST: [SHARP EXHALE] It’s too late for that now…! JARED: Not really, but… whatever.

There is a huuuge contrast between what Jude and Jared had each done to Jon: Jude found him “annoying” so she hurt him, and told Jon that she still would have done it had she known it would help to bring this apocalypse. Jared… only removed Jon’s two ribs because Jon had asked him to (for his own benefit! To get an anchor to save Daisy, and to get Jared’s statement!). And Jared was still offering to give it back.

It’s not about the violence that is exerted on victims: Oliver was torturing Danika, Arthur Nolan (who is apparently definitely not dead, oh.) had been shown torturing and sacrificing innocent people in the past. It’s not about avatars who casually hurt Jon just because they could: Jared and Jon had made a deal, Jon had come to him for a service.

… But the thing that all three of the Not!Them, Jude and Jared share is that they all contributed to Jon’s marks. As following Jonah’s recap:

(MAG160, Jonah Magnus) “The discovery that one of The Stranger’s minions had infiltrated the Institute in the aftermath was certainly a pleasant bonus. Even if that sliver of paranoia, that “vague wrongness” you couldn’t quite place wouldn’t count as a mark… it was only a matter of time before it confronted you in a far more direct, and affecting, manner. Admittedly, given the advent of The Unknowing, I needn’t have bothered – but what’s the old saying about hindsight? […] Jude served her purpose exactly as I had hoped, as did our dearly departed Mr Crew – marking you for The Desolation, and The Vast. […] I was a little put out when that idiot Jared Hopworth misinterpreted my letters and attacked the Institute too soon, before you were even out of the hospital, but then… Oh! You should have seen my face, when you voluntarily went to him. I couldn’t see what happened in there, of course, but given how you came out, I’m very sure it counts as a mark.”

Arthur didn’t mark Jon. Oliver didn’t mark Jon either – Jon was marked by The End during his coma, Oliver only brought him back from it. The Distortion… marked Jon as “Michael” technically (though it’s still The Distortion as “Helen”). Jane Prentiss, Mike Crew and Peter Lukas are already dead. The Buried and The Dark marked Jon through the Coffin and the Dark Sun; The Web through the Mr. Spider book.

… Which leaves, for potential upcoming smiting targets:

* The Distortion, if “Helen” counts.

* … Jonah for Beholding, since he made Jon sign up to become The Archivist.

* … Melanie for The Slaughter (although she has shaken it off)

* ……………………………. Daisy for The Hunt.

If Jon is indeed going after avatars who marked him, that leaves the question of Jon’s degree of control over his own actions. Is he going after them consciously? Is he trying to “unmark” himself, to exercise some degree of control over his current state by getting his revenge over the avatars who made the apocalypse possible, regardless of their willingness for it? Is something else pushing him to do that, and he only rationalising his actions?

I’m super worried for Melanie and Daisy right now ;;

(And very interested for Jon’s reaction if they stumble on Simon. Jon didn’t want to meet him, Simon liked Martin a lot, Simon didn’t mark Jon and didn’t interact with him so far… So it could go in many ways.)

  No conviction regarding MAG172’s title, but I’m mostly thinking Vast, Simon in particular? It could work very well for Web, too, but I’m still expecting Web for last brefore the Panopticon (then again… I wasn’t expecting The Lonely so soon either and we’ve already checked off that one).

The second meaning could… refer to a certain item we’ve already heard of, and/or to Jon’s current streak of smiting combined with the way he’s (over)fed by this world, I guess? ;;