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familyabolisher · 2 years ago

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cws for incest: i'd honestly love to hear you talk abt john and kiriona's quasi-incestous/emotionally incestous relationship if you're up for it! i did get a Vibe from kiriona saying she wants to be her father's cavalier

>:) So I'm not trying to argue for a reading of John and Kiriona as "incestuous" in the sense that I believe they are literally having an in-text sexual relationship with one another; I think that would be pretty easily refutable, lmao. What I'm trying to get at is how the slippery multiplicity of cavalierhood as a subject position combined with the three-way parallels drawn between Kiriona, Alecto, and Harrow (with particular emphasis on Kiriona and Alecto, just because that's what the bulk of Nona focalised) casts the spectre of potential incest such that the kind of exegesis that a patriarchal incest reading provides gains explanatory power.

I'm using a typically Gothic approach to patriarchal incest relations to explain the theoretical model I'm working with not because I think Muir is unilaterally invoking the Gothic in her interpersonal relationships (though it's definitely there, lol—I've written a Lot in the past about reading Gideon/Cytherea as a development on the traditional beats of lesbian Gothic texts, but. Anyway not the point) but just because it's the kind of discourse I'm more familiar with & one that I feel has a pretty significant amount of exegetical use here. I am also, inevitably, going to talk about Lolita (audience groaning). If you’re not familiar with the Lolita reading, you can read it here or a shorter, clearer summary of it here; I’m going to write this on the assumption that we’re all on the same page irt what Lolita does in the text because otherwise I’ll eat up easily 1000+ words just trying to cover ground I’ve already covered elsewhere.

The argument that I'm making rests on a particular understanding of incest between the father and the daughter as an expression of this nexus of ideas concerning power, violation, subjugation, and control of the sort that normative kinship relations facilitate. Sex, and the currency of power we give to sex, becomes a metonym for broader structures of power such that sexual abuse can carve out a discursive path for situating these power structures within hegemony and the social stratification that sustains it. In short: the father who desires/covets/rapes the daughter A) exists within a system of normative kinship relations by which that desire/coveting/rape is socially viable; and B) can illuminate, through the use of metaphor, the nature of those very same kinship relations. When the father treats the daughter as property through his sexual coveting of her (or even through the refracted potential of sexual desire), we can start to open up questions about the daughter as de facto property of the father under the patriarchal relations which govern their kinship; we can consider sexual control as metonymic for other forms of absolute or totalised control that the father holds over the daughter, and we can start to interrogate why that control is possible. In readings wherein the father intervenes on the relationship between a daughter and an ‘outsider’ (if you will), rendered as an intruder in the bourgeois home, we can start to pick at questions of consanguinity as blood preservation and contamination in the white bourgeois household. The point is, patriarchal incest is a versatile exegetical tool for examining systems of power, violence, exploitation under hegemony.

(Of course, I use “the” father and “the” daughter here to refer to undifferentiated archetypes of the form; rather than straightforwardly unspooling from these archetypes, John and Kiriona introduce a number of compelling caveats on the convention that I will come to towards the end of this essay. For one thing, there’s the fact of Kiriona being a butch lesbian, distinguishing her from the heterosexuality and normative femininity of the conventional Gothic daughter-heroine; for another, there’s the fact that both John and Kiriona are indigenous, separating them from the typically white bourgeois Gothic family model. I say ‘separate’ rather than ‘distance’ because I read these distinctions not as a movement away from the paradigmatic blueprint to which I refer, but as discursive developments on the norms that that blueprint presupposes; again, I’ll come to all this towards the end after I’ve laid out the basic groundwork.)

Anyway, building from the explanatory power we can get from this sort of reading, I intend to talk about:

Cavalierhood as a subject position, and the multiplicity of hegemonic sites it can align itself with, and what this multiplicity accomplishes;

Kiriona and Alecto, parallels between the two, and what those parallels manage to do;

Having made my case for the ‘incest reading,’ if you will, what I think that incest reading can illuminate within the text;

The divergences I indicated above and how those divergences manage to expand on the prototypical father/daughter incest literary model.

At any given point in the text, ‘cavalierhood’ (and the necromancer/cavalier relationship) can be expounded upon to represent the discursive fabric of a number of normative social relations. One of course is, as I have talked about before (wrt Gideon/Cytherea), an enfolding of butch/femme into imperialist configurations by which the constructed subject of ‘the butch’ becomes a site for sexual objectification and a retraction of sexual agency. Another is marriage: this one is pretty consistent, but we can refer to, for example:

The recurrent use of the Book of Ruth citing a passage sometimes used at lesbian weddings to describe Gideon and Harrow’s relationship;

The plot of The Necromancer’s Marriage Season which playfully cribs the Ianthe/Harrow/Gideon trifecta and figures Gideon as Harrow’s ‘saintly husband’ to her ‘tedious widow’;

The part during Cytherea’s funeral where someone (Augustine?) misremembers Cytherea’s surname as having been ‘Heptane,’ and we learn that she used Loveday’s forename as a surname—this, to me, is reminiscent of marital surname conventions;

C— and N— getting married in Nona and their resurrected selves being a necromancer/cavalier pair, thus suggesting that those relations can be made roughly equivalent to one another;

Kiriona telling Cam to ‘marry a moron and then die’ and saying that she knows the feeling [of doing so], seemingly comparing Cam’s relationship to Palamedes to the one she has to Harrow and invoking marriage as a shorthand for that relationship in the process;

John and Alecto as the origin point and blueprint of the relation; John and Alecto as Humbert and Dolores or as Annabel Lee and the speaker of the poem; Annabel Lee as ‘my darling, my darling, my life and my bride’;

& of course just, the general obvious resonances of a ritualised relation ratified through a ‘vow’ imbued with immense social significance.’

Diegetically, it’s both a sexually perverse and sexually charged relationship; the conditions under which Magnus and Abigail’s marriage is socially taboo are the same conditions as the ones that, for example, allowed Cytherea to do All That. It bears a relation to how gender functions in our world as a division of labour and a socially imposed imperialist ordering with attached normative articulations; it’s also a military formation that facilitates imperialist expansionism and makes use of its internal logics to indoctrinate and employ child soldiers (cf. of course, Jeannemary and Isaac; cf. also AYU where Judith describes her teenaged self).

Crucially, it bears a relation to structures of kinship, often compatible with rather than contradictory to the sexual currents undergirding it; Augustine and Alfred and Ianthe and Corona (the latter of which are near enough explicitly incestuous) are the obvious touchstones here, but Nona expands the metaphor to encompass not only sibling-sibling relationships (which could very much make for its own separate post) but those of the father and the daughter, ie. John and Kiriona.

There are a number of significant points where Alecto and Kiriona are drawn into one another’s orbit, such that I think it makes sense to read them as narrative parallels (and, as I’ve written about before, to read that narrative parallel as a process of identifying the connective tissue between rape, conquest, weapons of empire, and kinship relations). The key points where this process of paralleling happens has been written about extensively already, so I won’t waste time rehashing them; send me an ask or something if you want me to talk about that parallel in a separate post. Crucially, Alecto and Kiriona represent divergent articulations of the same exertion of control practiced by John; the one that’s given to us through the ‘doll’ metaphor (Alecto as the Barbie to Kiriona’s Midge) in which the subject of John’s [necromantic] control, abuse, extension of power, etc. is stripped of agency beyond what he can turn them into. (It’s the metaphor which powers Lolita, in which Dolores is frequently compared to a doll, has her home with Dick Schiller described as a ‘dollhouse,’ and shortens her name to Dolly; all of this collides with Humbert’s transformation of her into ‘Lolita’ ie. a being entirely controlled by and dependent on his literary discourse, and this transformation then being the process by which his rape of her can be made sense of.) For Alecto, this is her very creation; the creationof the labyrinthine body stylised to represent Barbie, the body that she hates and finds ‘terrible,’ ‘a hideousness,’ of Alecto herself existing as a composite construction of referential touchstones (Adam and Eve, Galatea, Barbie, Frankenstein’s monster with long yellow hair; Annabel Lee, Annie Laurie, Dolores Haze, Alecto the Fury). For Kiriona, this is becoming an incorruptible, impenetrable living-dead weapon of empire.

The third iteration of the doll reading is U— and T—; how the figuring of them as John’s ‘kids’ aligns them with Kiriona, whilst the use of sexually charged language (‘breached with a thermometer’ as penetrative; the constant touching) and the emphasis on a static, dormant state onto which a slightly covetous status is projected, thus refracting sexuality onto the state of stasis (‘frozen brains and perfect internal temperatures’) aligns them with Alecto, and the two of course work in tandem to signpost a CSA-type reading reminiscent of Lolita. U— and T—, once made into Ulysses and Titania, become the totalised subject of John’s control to which we can refer back when thinking about Alecto and Kiriona; through the imposition of the new name(s) and the dead-undead state of the bodies, we can see the immediate parallels, and we can also see how Alecto and Kiriona are each placed in a position relative to John functionally equivalent to the reanimated corpses under his control.

(An earlier example of this might be the three-way placing of Gideon, Loveday, and the puppeted Protesilaus alongside one another as—essentially—Cytherea’s three cavaliers. The killing of Protesilaus and puppeting of his corpse is discursively equivalent to the killing and consuming and reconstitution-through-batterisation of Loveday, and both are equivalent to the sexual subjugation of Gideon. Like, three different articulations of the same core subject position, to be sexually subjugated is to be killed/eaten/reconstituted by the means and abilities of the instigator. The kind of interpretive work we do to make sense of that is the same as the kind I’m trying to do with Alecto/Kiriona/U— and T—.)

The point is, the metaphorical work done here pits Alecto and Kiriona’s respective relationships to John as discursively the same. Already you can probably see the outline I’m drawing; that the incest reading comes through this suggestion that the relationship between John and Alecto (romantic, sexual at least at the metaphorical and possibly at the literal level) can be rendered equivalent to the relationship between John and Kiriona (that of kinship).

Alecto and Kiriona are also both paragons of cavalierhood; Alecto is one half of the blueprint from which the social formation emerged, and the driving force of Gideon is process of Gideon ‘learning’ and internalising the subject position of cavalierhood to such a severe extent that she becomes capable of killing herself by the end. Crucial to this paragon state is the fact that Alecto and Kiriona are more than just ‘dead,’ but undead; resurrected on the terms of a third party (ie. John!) in a manner that the Lolita posts outline in more depth. Their various interlocking and changeable subjectivities can be thought of under the encompassing umbrella of cavalierhood.

Crucially, Alecto and Kiriona are not distinct; it’s not enough to flatten this into a reading which claims that Alecto represents the ‘sexual’ subjectivity of cavalierhood and Kiriona represents the familial subjectivity. These categories collide at crucial points, and it’s from these collisions that the incest reading emerges. Alecto, in her ‘creation,’ can be read as effectively becoming John’s ‘daughter’ inasmuch as she is created by and grows out of him, constituted in his image; this reading is then further bolstered by this passage in Nona:

John loved her. She was John’s cavalier. She loved John. For she so loved the world that she had given them John. For the world so loved John that she had been given. For John had so loved her that he had made her she. For John had loved the world.

This passage is an ironic echo of John 3:16, “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” In positioning Alecto as the ‘Son’ of that passage, we of course can see how she again finds herself shifted into a kinship relation; it of course also aligns her with Kiriona as the ‘Son’ proper and the most elaborate Christ metaphor (though Alecto on her own is already a body lying in state behind an unrolled rock to whom her worshippers pray; she doesn’t need to be linked back to Kiriona to be one of the several Christ-equivalents that Muir introduces).

As Alecto shifts between subject categories under the umbrella position of cavalierhood, so too does Kiriona in desiring to effectively defeat and overthrow Alecto and take her place as John’s cavalier. Setting aside the obvious (that Kiriona was, first, cavalier to Harrow, in what was/is a pretty clearly sexually charged homoerotic relationship, such that John coming to her as a Harrow stand-in is already making some incestuous gestures), Alecto’s relationship to John is—if we are to use the language of Annabel Lee and Lolita—that of being a ‘dead bride.’ We can, therefore, understand Kiriona’s desire to usurp Alecto as a metaphorical gesture towards the common ground between ‘bride’ and ‘daughter’ and the gateway by which the father’s daughter might desire to become the father’s bride.

Crucially—the slipperiness of ‘bride’ and ‘daughter’ hearkens back to the Lolita reading, by which we understand Alecto and Kiriona to occupy positions relative to John that can be strongly connected to the position Dolores Haze holds relative to Humbert Humbert. Humbert’s abuse of Dolores Haze becomes possible through his marrying her mother and thus gaining access to her as her stepfather; he leverages the position of what is effectively fatherhood in order to conceal his rape and abuse, keep her close to him and economically dependent on him, and rhetorically leverage the possibility of state intervention were his abuse of her to be discovered in order to keep her quiet. Fatherhood in Lolita is a sexual and a social violence and one of the clearest and most straightforward articulations of this idea of fatherhood-daughterhood as a patriarchal property relation extending into the realm of sexual abuse.

So what does this John/Kiriona incest reading do? If we refer back to the ideas I outlined at the very beginning of this essay, patriarchal incest can function as a metonym for normative articulations of the father’s power over the daughter and the violence that such a power embodies. In that reading, we’re often talking about the bourgeois father and the bourgeois daughter, seeking to preserve a concentrate of power through capital and regarding the daughter as, effectively, an asset. I think we can extrapolate a similar configuration from John as Emperor and Kiriona as Crown Prince, wherein she functions as his representative, an extension of his power, symbolically his heir (unlikely meaningful beyond this symbolism—I’m reminded of the part in AYU where Judith points out that John’s title being ‘King Undying’ renders functionally void the contracts which stipulate particular conditions on his death, lol—the point is that Kiriona extends his power beyond his own immediate space, much like how the empire is an extension of his power beyond his immediate space, much like how she becomes a weapon of his empire…etc); whatever relation exists between them, it exists in the context of a preservation and extension of John’s power. This necessarily renders Kiriona an extension of John, drawing on a discourse of familial control made possible through the idea of the child as an extension of the parent. The child as the extension of the parent (as the means by which the parent retains their control over the child) = the maintenance of the conditions of imperialism at the cost of the autonomy of the child, as we see through Kiriona’s being turned into effectively a weapon made out of her own dead body.

A lot of this, however, would be possible without the presence of incest. What I think the specifically incestuous dimension does is disrupt the extant distinction between a daughter and someone who is sexually available to the father, and places John’s ‘creation’ of Kiriona (as, if you will, distinct from Gideon; as reanimated on his terms, taking a name given by him, crafted into a weapon to fulfil his ends; you know) on a level with the creation of Alecto, and in so doing places it on a discursive level with rape. The creation of the daughter-bride-cavalier-etc as a meaningful subject position runs on the currency of sexual violence; to be a daughter or a bride under this configuration is to be articulated within a patriarchal order that exists within, and in servitude to, the interests of imperialism. Through the incest metaphor, we can see not only the reach of John’s control over Kiriona, but the way in which that control creates, feeds into, and fortifies other subjectivities, and lends explanatory power across the board. You could boil the metaphor down to just the statement that John incestuously raped Kiriona; whilst this did not literally happen in-text, the same as how Kiriona does not literally sexually desire her father and nor does he sexually desire her, the metaphor functions such that the violence of rape and the violence of what John did to Kiriona become equivocal. (I am thinking, as always, of that throwaway line in Nona where we learn that the twins’ equivalent of ‘Fuck, Marry, Kill’ is ‘Marry, Kill, Reanimate.’)

However, I think we can also consider the ways in which John and Kiriona intervene in (or at least develop) some of the assumptions baked into the traditional patriarchal incest configuration. As I said already, this configuration presupposes whiteness and heterosexuality, and a normative articulation of gender that tends to come part and parcel with both. Alecto is, in a sense, a force of hegemony to which John aspires (in short, an aspirational whiteness; also, I think, the kind of power that can be courted from her subjugation; part of the driving tension of Nona and indeed of portions of the rest of the series comes from this question of how, where and why disempowered people will seek empowerment within hegemony where they can get it). Alecto is white, and normatively feminine, by and large because she was formulated in the image of something which John coveted ie. a symbol of hegemony (and I think it’s significant that she hates the body she was put into, for reasons that could be attributed at least in part to gender or whiteness or both); whiteness and normative femininity are both categories from which Kiriona is excluded (even in a world where race + gender diegetically operate somewhat differently to how they operate in ‘our’ world, this still has explanatory significance), and this discourse of patriarchal incest and sexual violence similarly tends to exclude the ways in which people outside of the white, bourgeois household configuration are dragged into the mire of the violence it perpetuates. In incorporating Kiriona as a necessary counterpart to Alecto (and indeed, in figuring Gideon’s inculcation into cavalierhood as a predatory seduction by a white woman within which her masculinity was objectified), the myopia of the bourgeois house with the bourgeois relations whose violence appears wholly inward-facing is somewhat alleviated; it’s a far more expansive vision of what gendered violence is, what sexual violence is, where it takes place and why.

I don’t think the details of the John-Kiriona relationship are developed enough for me to confidently commit to a position on what eg. his renaming her with a te reo transliteration could be doing in regards to all of this, though I am v interested in this development towards an imperialism which still operates on an axis of Catholicism and antiquity but incorporates indigeneity; I do however think that Kiriona being brought into this circle of sexual violence as socially legible within it (as able to be subjugated by Cytherea and then Harrow and then John) kind of responds to the limitations that Alecto alone would place on the narrative; without this mitigation, there would be a unilateral focus on Alecto and the fantasy of whiteness + its preservation as the driving force behind all of this narrative development, whereas the incorporation of Kiriona (and, I imagine, Harrow, though as I said at the beginning I don’t think Harrow’s role here has been developed all that far just yet) allows us to map these interpretations out across a far broader range of gender expression and subjectivity.

To recap, because I’m well aware that this ran away with me somewhere and ended up absurdly long:

An analytical lens that considers the interpretive function of patriarchal (father/daughter) incest imagines the incest to metonymically reveal the violence baked into normative relations between fathers and daughters under patriarchy; the daughter as extended property of the father, including sexual property.

Cavalierhood can make discursive gestures towards different external relations at different points in the text. Significant ones include: butch/femme, marriage, gender, and kinship relations. All of these converge on the fact of the necromancer/cavalier relationship being an imperialist bolstering; its multitude of metaphorical functions all necessarily circle back to that common denominator.

Alecto and Kiriona are rendered discursively equivalent in relation to John; they both exist, under the ‘doll’ metaphor, under his control as semi-resurrected beings. They also both function as synecdoches of cavalierhood, making clear the subjectivity that the necromancer-cavalier relationship imposes.

Alecto and Kiriona operate within the categories of ‘daughter’ and ‘bride’ relative to John, but these categories are porous. They overlap such that, much like how John’s ‘creation’ of Alecto renders her functionally his daughter, Kiriona’s attempt to effectively coup Alecto and take her place renders her functionally John’s ‘bride.’ All of this takes place at the metaphorical level, but it opens us up to considering what the raised possibility of incest here can do.

What it can do is illustrate an understanding of Kiriona as a literal extension of John, allowing us to ask questions about the social order which understands the child as an extension of the will and power of the parent at the expense of their own autonomy. This is a social unit coherent within and endemic to imperialism. It also allows for a reading within which the daughter is sexually available to the father and the other readings around how Muir figures rape in the series can be brought to the fore; part of the maintenance of John’s control requires the (metaphorical) rape of Kiriona, much like how it required the (metaphorical) rape of Alecto by which the social ordering of the necromancer/cavalier relation was established.

We can also consider how gender and racialisation take this reading beyond the confines of the typical patriarchally incestuous text to think about how Alecto is only one piece of a far more expansive puzzle and Kiriona is another; the subjugation of an indigenous butch woman carries just as much significance irt hegemony and attached pathos as does the subjugation of Alecto, and both are presented not as totalising statements but as portions of a far broader discourse.

This is only tangentially related because obviously we're now talking subtext and speculation rather than actual textual content, but something that makes the possibility of Ianthe and Kiriona's weird little chussy entanglements so appealing to me is how each can manage to act as a proxy for about three people at once for the other; or to put it more clearly, as repositories for a displaced desire (however extracted or metaphorical) that cannot be directly realised and so has to undergo some kind of mimetic transformation. It's the displaced desire for Harrow, obviously, but also a displaced desire for Coronabeth, and a displaced desire for John. (It reminds me a lot of what Cytherea was doing with Gideon, wherein she couldn't oust John in any real sense because she held no meaningful power over him, but the site where she did hold power was the site where particular social structuring made it so that she was able to manipulate and seduce his daughter, who of course represented the absolute proof of very betrayal that she was turning against him for. Like, sex as a currency of power is a very recurrent theme here.)

Anyway—I hope this was helpful lmao!

#ask #tlt #nona the ninth spoilers #incest cw #rape cw

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philsmeatylegss · 28 days ago

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Just as someone who studies and loves history, if you ever are wondering what a key sign is that someone knows quite literally nothing about history, it will come in the form of a person saying “I wish I lived in the 80s (or before)” or “life/relationships was so much easier in the 80s (or before).” Like that flat out just tells me you’ve never opened a history book in your life

Because when you ask why, usually they will say some variation of problems that happen today didn’t happen back then (usually referring to being gay, drugs, cheating, freaky sex, bdsm, abuse, mental illness, etc). And if you open one fucking history book you would know all of that shit was happening as much, if not, even more than it’s happening right now, only it was a lot more dangerous

Yeah, gay people existed in the 50s. There were secret meetups that men (many married with kids because they were forced into) went to and hooked up with other men in. Men being sexually assaulted or raped by men was practically unheard of and unprosecuted until like the 80s-ish. Literally a man was violently raped by John Wayne Gacy, went to police right after, was blown off by police because the concept of men raping men was nuts, this guy did his entire own investigation, finding out where Gacy even fucking lived, and was still ignored. That guy ended up being a key eye witness in Gacy’s trial to prove he was sane.

People were heavily addicted to drugs all throughout history. It was an epidemic among housewives in the 40s-60s who were depressed being forced to stay at home and were just given pain pills to help cope. Most housewives, usually experiencing domestic violence on the regular, used opioids and other drugs to cope with the abuse and unfulfilled life. Most of them were severely depressed.

Nuclear family American dream didn’t die. It never fucking existed. Everything was just kept behind closed doors. And doing surface level historical research, I literally mean reading a few books or watching a few documentaries, make it clear.

People romanticize the daily life for Americans in the 40s-80s so much without realizing 1) that was the reality for only white, middle to upper class people 2) it was all for show.

“If you could go back and live in any decade which would you go to?” None! I’m a mentally ill lesbian. I’m so fortunate to be living now. Living in previous decades, especially the 1990s and earlier, would suck balls

Open a fucking history book

#it isn’t surprising that you only see this opinion mostly coming from white people but it’s like even white women will say it a lot and it’#like you couldn’t open up a credit card in your name without a father or husbands permission until the 70s what are you talking about????#I always wondered why a stereotypical historian was usually a conservative white guy and that’s because they were the only people allowed t #write history #that’s why revisionist history is so important #***revisionist history means looking at history through the lens of someone other than the writer #looking at the civil rights movement from the prospective of a young black American for example #no it doesn’t mean revising history it’s a dumb name idk why they call it that but it’s important #anyway this stemmed from watching a tiktok ofc #rae’s rambles #tw rape #tw murder

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vanessamandaceo · 2 months ago

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Heartbeat

My first Vanessamanda fic! Dedicated to @burgershopsammi @tired-bunni @vannysgirl @mallickscottkisser

I’m so excited for this. I know I only posted the preview today, but I really wanted to put it out because it was finished but I thought that the editing would take a little while but I ended up finishing that . There’s mentions of child abuse, and heavy implications of Ness and Mandy hooking up.

Vanessa was used to cleaning up her father’s messes, and she thought she would escape that when she left Utah for New Jersey two years ago, but in a sad unfortunate twist of fate; she became an apprentice to America’s most wanted serial killer.

Cleaning up another old man’s blood stained messes.

But at least she met her wife by doing that. It was January 2006, The two of them had just gotten married illegally last month; despite knowing each other for only 18 months.

Same sex marriage wasn’t legal and Vanessa knew that it was unfair that she had to go the illegal route to get married. She was supposed to be upholding the law, not breaking it. But on the other hand, she didn’t give a fuck. She loved Amanda.

She mindlessly played with the ring on her finger until she was snapped out of her thoughts by a nuzzle against her cheek. “Hey, bunny. You okay back here?”

“I’m fine, Mandy. It’s just the game John has planned for April has me fucked up. Does he seriously want to kidnap a doctor and have them perform surgery on his fucking brain?!”

“John knows what he’s doing. It sounds mundane, but please don’t question him like that, okay?” Amanda’s slightly bitter tone sent sparks of electricity through Vanessa. If this was a bedroom situation, and Amanda was speaking to her like that, she would fold like a lawn chair. But since this was a disturbing situation, she was disgusted. She knew if she was anybody else, Amanda would be flipping her lid and screaming at her.

Amanda had a very weird relationship with John, and not in a good way. As a police officer, Vanessa has seen this case countless times. Amanda was a victim of grooming, John being the perpetrator.

Vanessa knew her wife was a victim of childhood abuse, and she recognized that John took advantage of that, especially at her lowest.

John had punished and tortured Amanda because she was a drug addict, claiming that this could fix her.

What John fails to realize though is abused children become abused adults, some of them having severely broken minds.

Watching John willingly take advantage of her wife, made her want to kill him, but she couldn’t. By killing John, Vanessa would be risking everything she had with Amanda.

Amanda pulled her in for a hug. “ I know you worry about me, but I promise I’m fine,” Amanda began, peppering kisses along Vanessa’s collarbone. “You need to relax.”

“ I cannot relax and you know that.”

“Why? Is that fucking weirdo security guard still looking for you?!”

“His name is Mike and I don’t know. He’s not weird, he knows I’m a lesbian and has not asked me out on any dates since I told him I was before I left Utah.”

Vanessa could see partial jealousy in Amanda‘s eyes. It was the protective type and she understood why her wife Felt the way she did.

“ I don’t trust any men besides John around you, not only because of my past, but because of yours. I had an abusive father, and so did you. But yours also killed a bunch of children and made you clean up the mess at the age of 12.”

Vanessa’s green eyes looked into Amanda’s “Babe, I don’t need a play-by-play of my childhood thank you. And I was nine.”

But the fact that she didn’t trust any men besides John made Vanessa sick inside. John was tearing Amanda apart, and since that evil old bastard had her right where she wanted him, she couldn’t even see it.

“You wanna go out? We could go to Wendy’s. We haven’t had a date night in a while.” Amanda’s offer cut through Vanessa’s thoughts like a butter knife. “Yeah. Why not?”

Vanessa, being nearly as tall as Mark Hoffman, threatened the hell out of him to take care of John and that’s how they were able to go out for the night. The two of them sat at a table, drowned out by chatter. two toddler aged siblings were play fighting on the floor near the couple, laughing.

“You still want kids with me one day?” Amanda asked, making a small gesture to the children.

“ Neither of us are mentally sound enough to take care of another human being, let alone multiple. Besides, we have a dog named Sparky, and I think she counts as our child.”

“VANESSA?!”

Vanessa knew that voice. Her body went rigid, her finger trembling against the table as she gripped it. She never wanted Mike to find her for her own sake, and yet he did. Amanda got up and stalked towards Mike. “What fucking business do you have asking for my girlfriend?” Amanda snapped. She wanted to say wife so badly, but she could not risk going back to jail.

“I’m sorry, who are you?” Mike asked, clearly bewildered.

“I’m sorry, Let me be more fucking formal this time. I’m Amanda, Vanny’s girlfriend, and you had no business coming in here to bother her.”

“It's a public restaurant. Besides, she’s a friend of mine.”

“ I don’t give a shit if it’s a public restaurant, ‘Mike’. “

All eyes were on Amanda now. Her relationship with Vanessa was nobody’s business, and this asshole from Utah was getting on her nerves.

Vanessa still sat at that table, just wanting to go back to their apartment.

“Ness?”

Vanessa’s head snapped up. There stood Abby, now sixteen. She hasn’t seen her since she left. “Hi, Abby. How are you?” Those were the only words she could get out, her brain still completely wracked.

“I’m okay, I guess. Was I the reason you left?”

Vanessa finally turned. “No, no, no. It wasn’t you. It was-“

“ It was Mike, wasn’t it?” Abby cut her off before she could tell her why, The teenager stormed off and started yelling at her brother. Amanda walked back, wrapping an arm around Vanessa. “Babe, we’re going home.” Amanda sounded almost aggressive and it didn’t help that Vanessa was trying to hold back tears.

It wasn’t Mike.

It wasn’t Abby.

It was her dead father, and that fucking restaurant of his.

She wanted to get away from it all. But now that the entire country knew who her father was, would she be able to? She legally changed her last name from Afton to a last name she picked out herself, Shelly, when she was 18 in 1993. It was the only way she could try to distance herself from him as much as she could, but even as a police officer, he was still controlling everything she did, and making sure she cleaned up every single victim he had.

And now, she was stuck doing it again.

She had her missing piece with her, but it was still a cycle of repetitive abuse. The two of them were nothing but puppets, the puppet master now in a stolen hospital bed in a crude replication of a hospital room.

Amanda helped Vanessa in the back of her car, seeing the stress in her eyes.

When they got back to the meat packing plant, Amanda quickly got her girlfriend inside and immediately to their shared mattress that lay on top of two floor shelving units. Sparky, their rescued German shepherd mix curled beside Vanessa in an attempt at comfort. Amanda kissed Vanessa’s lips before nuzzling her face and putting a blanket over her.

“Sleep well, Vanny. I love you,” Amanda breathed as she crawled into bed beside her. “Always.”

Sparky moved in between her human moms, wriggling until she flopped on her back.

Vanessa jolted awake in a sweat, sobbing. Amanda stirred. “Bunny?” She mumbled, voice thick with sleep. “What’s wrong, baby?”

“My dreams. I’m brought back to June 23rd,1985. I’m still nine, and I’m in the arcade of Freddy’s. My dad, William, calls for me. Mama was at work, so I often stayed at Freddy’s until dad left. I assumed he called my name because we were going home, but no. I stood in the doorway of the back room and I saw-“

Vanessa shook as she began to hyperventilate. Amanda pulled her in, whispering in her ear. “Ground yourself, Nessie. He’s not here, he cannot hurt you anymore. If he even tries to find you, I’ll kill him myself. Okay?”

Vanessa gripped Amanda. Once she calmed down, she murmured, “I’ll kill yours, too. I know what he did to you, Mandy. I read his file at the station, and the amount of visceral rage he gives me is so fucking palpable.”

Amanda didn’t even flinch. She just leaned in, and kissed her cheek. “Little miss law breaker… I should put you in cuffs for that, you know.” Amanda winked, a light joke in the heat of the moment.

“Wouldn’t be the first time you stole my cuffs only to use them on me. Remember New Year’s Day 2005?”

“Of course I remember last year. We almost got caught by Hoffman. Absolutely disgusting.” Amanda grimaced, Vanessa laughing.

“Not my fault!”

“Yes, it was, blondie. You’re loud.”

“You’re an asshole.”

“But you love me.”

“Do I?” Vanessa joked, Amanda smothering her in kisses. “Yeah, you do.”

Vanessa kissed her back. “Of course I do.”

The two leaned back when Sparky wanted love. The pup was essentially their child, completing their family in a way.

But there was always the gnawing feeling of wanting more.

But in their line of ‘work’, it was impossible. Vanessa and Amanda wouldn’t dare bring a child into their world of blood and pain.

The two lay on that dingy mattress, dreaming of a life that could’ve been theirs. No games, no John Kramer, no blood to scrub off of walls. Just them, Sparky, a home, and maybe a child or two.

But dreams are just that. Dreams.

#saw 2004 #saw 3 #saw fandom #saw franchise #saw movies #amanda young #vanessa shelly #fnaf #wlw #fanfiction #vanessamanda #five nights at freddy's #saw 2 #sawposting #fnaf movie #fnaf vanessa #saw amanda

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voxofthevoid · 4 months ago

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HELLO I AM HERE TO TALK ABOUT OUR LORD AND SAVIOUR THE LESBIAN JESUS GIDEON NAV THE FIRST FLOWER OF THE NINTH HOUSE

there is just so much to talk when it comes to Gideon but her relationship with Pyrrha is fascinating. because Pyrrha wanted and still wants Gideon, who has never been anyone's priority. Gideon doesn't think she is wanted but Pyrrha mourned her for all these years. do you think she as G1deon looked at Harrow and imagined that Wake's child would be close in age? and she doesn't even know that the child is sharing bodies with her necro just like her

they meet finally and Pyrrha fucks it up, because she never expected to meet Gideon, because Gideon has always been a Concept not a person so now faced with the real person she says the wrong thing. Pyrrha talks about fucking her mother but not how she mourned Gideon. and it's made worse by Gideon learning that Pyrrha knew about her because for her entire life she believed she was wanted and not abandoned like everyone told her. but Pyrrha knowing and not returning was reaffirming of that. and it's not even Pyrrha's fault! she couldn't have known, she would have trouble returning to Ninth! but Gideon is 19 and has been abused her entire life and she is upset, she just learnt her mother, who she believed loved her, only had her to kill her

and then there is Nona. Nona who is in Harrow's body but could be either of them and Pyrrha isn't trying really hard to learn. this is her chance to make up for the lost years, to raise that child and build a relationship without the burden of her being raised on the Ninth. and of course Pyrrha loves Nona for herself but it is Gideon she thinks of (could be Harrow but if another person prioritises Harrow over Gideon I will go mental) when she wonders if "she" had birthdays on the Ninth

just thinking about Pyrrha and the time she spent pretending to be G1deon, knowing that Gideon's corpse is there. the scene where she and Nona are standing next to corpse Kiriona is making me insane

Nor had Pyrrha ever looked at her the way she now looked at the dead corpse with red hair—a kind of soft, guarded want; a hunger—a living desire to take the corpse in her arms like Kevin’s wanting desire with his dolls. To own, to squeeze, to cosset and destroy.

this one paragraph makes me want to write so many fics exploring their dynamic, it's criminal how there are only 30 fics tags Gideon Nav & Pyrrha Dve. what do you mean there is sentence that goes as hard as "a hunger—a living desire to take the corpse in her arms" and people aren't writing long ass fics about it??

I need to reread Nona for their interactions when I am less busy but Gideon watching Pyrrha be kind and gentle with Nona, a parent, and being reminded once again how she was abandoned. and how she is still not anyone's first choice. the unwanted child, just like Crux said

do you think Gideon hated Nona when she watched Pyrrha be so gentle with her? no one had ever shown her this much kindness, no one held as she was dying and she wasn't chosen the way Pyrrha chose to shoot Ianthe with the bullet she was saving for John. do you think she despised that stranger in Harrow's body because she envied how loved she was while telling herself it's because Nona is squatting in Harrow's body?

I am very rarely interested in parent/child relationship but god does Gideon have fascinatingly messed up relationships with literally every parent figure in her life

thank you for allowing me to rant <3 I have so many thoughts about them

Gideon and Pyrrha should have emotionally charge pseudo incestuous sex who said that

Nodding along so hard to all of this while losing my brain cells one at a time.

It's been long enough since I read the books that I'd need a full reread to actually contribute to this conversation in any meaningful way, but Pyrrha and her relationships with both Wake and Gideon are hands down my favourite in the series—and for good fucking reason. It's delicious enough in Harrow, but Nona takes it up a notch by giving us Gideon and Pyrrha interactions that are jagged and awkward and frankly painful, despite being so brief and so few.

Never going to be over the fact that Pyrrha wanted that kid so bad, and then Gideon came into the scene in time to watch her tenderly parent whoever's walking around in her lesbian situationship's body.

Nona sees how Pyrrha looks at that corpse; she understands it. Gideon never does.

Tamsyn Muir, your mind 🙇

(I was going to say I'm also rarely interested in parent/child relationships and that we all know what happens when I start, but you beat me to it lmaooo. With how Gideon presumably resembles Wake to an extent and how her relationship with Pyrrha is already half momfucker jokes and tragic yearning, it'd be so very pseudo-incestuous and so bad for everyone involved. It would still be less fucked up than whatever the Tridentarii twins have going on.)

#kairos-polaris #i love my anons #tlt

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hostilemuppet · 10 months ago

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The Twitter Drama AU Timeline

finally, after months, we finally have a timeline. this is not exhaustive (i tried to mainly include the super important parts, and some less important parts i thought were REALLY funny), and is probably only 75% accurate due to the non-linear nature we wrote the fic in to begin with, but it is better than nothing! updated as of chapter 10 (low hanging fruits)

12th March 2023: Tiny Diamond is born, Creek is his other dad, which is kept a secret from everyone except Guy and Creek.

November 2023: The events of Band Together, almost completely identical. Following which, Brozone get back together and start working on their reunion album. Now that Branch is in the spotlight, Barb is forced to acknowledge her ex girlfriend (one night stand) Poppy is a lot happier with a transfem butch, which sparks Barb’s descent into terfism. Val and Creek briefly see each other.

December 2023: John Dory gets his Twitter confiscated by Clay. Floyd gets his sex tape leaked (by Creek). Clay throws Viva under the bus for the first time. Clay accidentally gets Bruce accused of cheating on his wife, but they pin it on Branch, who just organised a fake breakup with Poppy because he was uncomfortable with all the smutfic. Riff leaves Barb’s band, and collabs with Creek but calls him an asshole. Velvet gets out of prison and writes a callout thread on Floyd. Floyd gets cancelled for the first time. Creek and Floyd start seeing each other in secret.

January 2024: Val publicly comes out as nonbinary and is kicked out of Barb’s band, then outs Barb as a nepo baby as revenge. JD tries to sneak back onto stantwt but is doxxed. Floyd tells Branch about his relationship with Creek; Branch is surprisingly fine with it as long as Creek is suffering, and boy does he suffer.

February 2024: A misunderstanding leads everyone to think Branch broke up with Poppy because he’s a gay man. He comes out as a lesbian but is immediately met with vitriol of both the exclusionist and transmisogynistic varieties. Barbtwt have a bone to pick with Hickory but he comes out on top. Clay throws Viva under the bus again but this time she's had enough, and releases an expose video on him and kicks him out of the pod. Viva and Floyd become BFFs.

March 2024: Dating rumours about Smidge and Poppy start, which Smidge does nothing to help. Barb accuses Smidge’s actual boyfriend of being a pedophile, and gets ratio’d. Creek and Floyd go public with their relationship.

June 2024: Guy Diamond gets into controversy after soliciting a camgirl and his family vlog channel goes on hiatus. Clay and Viva get back together, and Viva records revenge porn of him to “keep him in line”.

August 2024: Biggie gets into mild controversy that escalates into cancelation when he responds in character as Mr Dinkles. Clay and Vivas relationship becomes undeniably abusive, but they’re really good at hiding it.

September 2024: Floyd and Creek get married! Satin & Chenille have Velvet on their podcast. Guy Diamond gets cancelled after being outed as Pro-Life.

15th December 2024: Floyd and Creek have twins, Brad and Angelina [LASTNAME]-[LASTNAME2-.

April 2025: Creek and Floyd drop all pretences of thinking they’re a healthy couple.

12th May 2025: Creek aborts his second egg. They would have been named Shiloh. Floyd is distraught and gets harassed on Twitter again for being Pro-Life.

August 2025: Creek and Floyd divorce.

September 2025: It comes to light that DJ Suki is stealing from her niece CJ.

December 2025: Creek and Floyd get back together. Val stops hiding their racism from twitter and get doxxed by KPop fans. They have to live with their mother.

January 2026: Harper starts drawing Bruce as a transphobic caricature, a skinny feminine twink.

February 2025: Viva stops taking birth control. Branch gets doxxed for the first time (by Cloud Guy). Dante starts stalking Branch.

March 2026: jdtwt find out that JD used to have a thing with Delta Dawn, and harass her a bit. The two get back in touch, and Delta tells JD that they actually had a kid together (Holly Darling). JD is thrilled about being a dad. Holly is initially apprehensive but eventually comes around. JD gives Delta Cooties (it’s okay, there’s a cure). Sky Toronto buys Twitter.Crimp gets run off the internet for uncomfortable roleplay with Tiny Diamond (pretending to be 14). Velvet gets cancelled for workplace abuse. Smidge starts queerbaiting by selling merch of referencing her and Poppy’s fake relationship.

April 2026: Tiny Diamond reveals he is not actually 14, he is physically 3 years old (but for our purposes he is functionally 9 because Trolls age weird). He loses all his OOMFs (CJ, Preiscilla, Keith (all approx 13)) and has his account suspended. Branch gets really jealous over Smidge and publicly shittalks her. He and Poppy “get back together” but set the “boundary” that any smutfic about either of them can only be Broppy (obviously not everyone follows this rule).

May 2026: Cloud Guy leaks Smidge’s miscarriage after being paid off by Barbtwt. Branch gets doxxed for the third time. Poppy demands Sky Toronto take action so he permabans Cloud Guy’s IP. Cloud Guy goes to live with his parents.

June 2026: Gust Tumbleweed is violently homophobic to Synth during an LGBT charity event, but faces no consequences because he starts flirting with his fellow straight male friends again. Poppy gets sick of Dante stalking Branch so she prepares to take matters into her own hands. Holly Darlin starts selling snake oil, from the same company that supplies for Satin & Chenille. Holly and Satin start dating.

July 2026: Satin & Chenille (both Creek’s exes) are invited to the Floyd and Creek household for dinner to ‘bury the hatchet’, where they witness blackmailable activities and force them both to come on their podcast and embarrass themselves (mostly Floyd).

August 2026: Demo falls in love with Gust after being flirted with for several months, breaks up with his current girlfriend (DJ Suki) and gets very VERY aggressively turned down by Gust. Dante sends a glitter bomb to Branch’s pod, so Poppy beats him up, but Dante calls the cops on her and she faces legal trouble. Harper starts drawing Creek as a trans man, even though Creek is a cis man, because she felt like it. It catches on. Biggie gets cancelled for something unspecified but really, really bad.

September 2026: Guy Diamond faces controversy for thinking Troll babies sleeping in beds causes Autism, which he got from Creek, who he used to date and is now interested in again. Clay starts nearing his brink wrt Viva and stays with JD for a bit. Viva finds an egg in her hair, which she soon loses (19th). Cloud Guy kills himself. Biggie overdoses while playing Overwatch. Veneer gets hit by a bus.

October 2026: Sky Toronto and Nova Swift get divorced (she leaves him for a trans Troll). Branch and Poppy get an egg, and Viva is the first they tell, so she manipulates them into thinking they’d be awful parents and she can take care of it for them. Viva uses the egg to convince Clay to come home.

31st October 2026: The egg Viva stole from Branch and Poppy hatches. Their name is Ha’Penny Hatch. Since the kid looks nothing like either “parents”, Clay figures that Viva cheated on him and finally goes grey.

November 2026: Harper deletes all her socials when her proship side account is found. Gust tricks Demo into thinking his feelings are finally returned, only to crush his heart again publicly during a subathon.

December 2026: BrozoneRonpa resurfaces. Branch accidentally says something offensive about Guy Diamond publicly, and Guy capitalises on the potential controversy, which leads to intense Guy VS Floyd beef (they are both interested in the same man (only Floyd is married to him). Nova Swift moves to Mount Rageous, leaving S&C in need of a podcast producer, and Fuzzbert is their only hope but expects a big paycheck.

January 2027: Guy Diamond reveals that Tiny Diamond is actually Creek’s son. Floyd goes to stay with Branch. Bruce finds out the real reason Clay went grey and his immediate plan is to fake Clay’s suicide and take him with him to Vacay Island. JD, Viva and Penny are the only members of Clay’s immediate family who don’t know he’s still alive. Clay’s funeral is livestreamed on Twitch. Holly Darlin’s newly rekindled relationship with her dad is halted in its infancy.

#text #twitter drama au

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bethanydelleman · 2 years ago

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Was marriage as bad as it sounds during Jane Austen's time? From what I've heard, a woman with the means to stay single would be stupid to want marriage. They were considered property and lost any semblance of independence. Unless you really trust the guy and loved them, it seems like a horrible gamble.

A show made a joke about her being a lesbian because she never got married, which I didn't know. It just confuses me because she wrote so many romance books. I'm wondering if she wrote that way because marriage was purely a practical decision and she was a lesbian or asexual, or if marriage was just a horrible decision altogether.

That joke really rubs me the wrong way, especially in an era where man where scarce because they were fighting Napoleon! Not that there is anything wrong with being queer, but just because a woman with very little fortune didn't manage to marry doesn't mean she didn't want to.

It seems to be pretty well documented that Jane Austen loved/liked at least two men, Tom LeFroy and an unnamed clergyman, but neither proposed. The only man who did propose, Jane Austen decided against.

As for marriage in general, I am sure most marriages were nothing special but fine. I mean, a lot of people especially in the gentry class are marrying for wealth and rank and hoping they also like the person. Freakenomics talked about an analysis that showed most couples in the aristocracy just stopped having kids after the heir and the spare, except during one period where many members of the nobility married "down". Those couples kept having kids, probably because they actually loved each other. Which says a lot about the average upper class marriage.

People would also think about marriage differently than we would today in Western countries. I don't think anyone goes into marriage like Charlotte Lucas, because we don't have to. Women can get their own jobs and, while stigma has not been erased, staying single is no longer a huge taboo. But Charlotte and probably many other women went in knowing that neither side was in love, they were signing up for a roommate with procreation benefits. So if you husband did stray you might not even mind (as long as he didn't bring home any diseases and was discreet).

Most marriages we see in Jane Austen are fine, but not a huge romance. Take Sir John and Lady Middleton, they get along fine but have nothing in common. Clearly they have sex (4 children), but Sir John is getting companionship from other people, like Mrs. Jennings who he actually gets along with great. So they are both making it work and not expecting that their marriage partner will be everything to them. We also see marriages in Jane Austen where the woman is clearly in control (Fanny Dashwood).

Now the problem with Regency society and societies today that make divorce very difficult is not that suddenly all men are abusive, but that women (and men) have an extremely difficult time getting out of bad marriages. There is still divorce stigma of course, and even within Canada it matters how religious your family is, but the average person would not tell an abused partner to just stay to preserve their family dignity (I hope).

Throughout all of human history, let's say roughly 20% of marriages are great, 60% are fine/mediocre (nothing to write home about but your sex roommate is pretty chill), and 20% were bad. I don't think you can ever change the % that are bad, but what you can change is how easily people can escape from that bad situation. No fault divorce, abuse shelters, understanding family/friends, women being able to work, and birth control all help people to get out of abusive situations.

Also, even though a married woman lost some legal rights, it wasn't like she had a lot to begin with. A woman basically goes from the control of her father to the control of a husband. Married women didn't require chaperones so they probably on average had more freedom of movement than single women. In both Wives & Daughters (Elizabeth Gaskell) and Lady Susan (Jane Austen), married women travel to London solo during the season. An unmarried woman could not do that!

In Austen's novels, it's pretty clear the best possible position for a woman was rich widow. There you have freedom of movement, your own money, and social acceptability. And as for not marrying, even rich women like Caroline Bingley and Mary Crawford are trying to marry, not attempting to stay single. The social cost of spinsterhood was just too high.

Oh, and for a fascinating dive into lower class marriages, check out The Five, either the podcast or the book. Really great read.

#question response #people have always been people #history #marriage #jane austen #wives and daughters #lady susan #elizabeth gaskell #learning about history has made me an absolute fan girl of no fault divorce #but it's not like the past was some horror story #bad marriages still happen today #and getting people out is hard

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s1ll13rg00s3 · 1 year ago

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what a dim fkn lesbophobe.. ofc most prostitutes don't enjoy most times the crusty johns f*ck them but if they're osa they at least have the capacity to enjoy sex involving males and their dicks which lesbians innately do not. it's overdramatic to say that every single encounter a prostitute (who had picked this job) has is SA, that's trivializing the very meaning and victims of SA. there absolutely are het and bihet women who enjoy being promiscuous and getting railed by random males and have decided they may as well make money from that as incomprehensible and dangerous and anti-feminist as it is. but lesbians could never willingly be with a male, so yes, ofc if a male r*ped me - a gold star lesbian, it would be 100 times worse for my psyche than a fellow woman r*ping me. that is not the say that r*pe isn't always traumatic. female heteros can't ever really relate to this because they are female themselves and are attracted to males who oppress them so they'll never understand how revolting the very idea of any physical contact with a male is to us, the softest seemingly consensual hetero 'love-making' 🤢 would still be aggressive r*pe to a lesbian. on the other end, most het women will never that viscerally disgusted by the idea of intimacy with a woman, they don't desire it, but they know and have female anatomy themselves and female genitalia isn't as weaponizable and physically endangering as male either. if you asked most het-attracted women, they'd still choose to be assaulted by a woman if they were forced into such an awful choice. most of them are so lesbophobic and heteronormatively brainrotted anyway that they wouldn’t even perceive lesbian sex as 'real' so being r*ped by a woman wouldn’t be as traumatic for most. so while all r*pists should die eternally in the pits of hell no matter the compatibility of their orientation and their victim's, you are simply lesbophobic and insanely cruel if you think that the doubly inhumane: homophobic and misogynistic 'corrective' r*pe isn't most horrific and traumatizing to lesbians in particular.

So first of all i think you're like completely misplacing your anger, hope it made you feel better to type all that out at least? Like I think you've misunderstood my post maybe lmao, because the POINT of that post about "no prostitutes are lesbians because any real lesbian would kill themselves rather than get touched by a male is very unkind TO LESBIANS who have been sexually abused by men or prostituted. But maybe because I suggested I think its fucked up to say that "osa" women suffer less from being raped you don't care abt the rest.

So to clarify, I dont think attempting to quantify who suffers from rape "the most" is a reasonable conversation to have, it's neither helpful nor compassionate to any victims of sexual assault.

You can recognize that corrective rape is awful (it is and I've never said otherwise) and think that.

Why do we need to build a hierarchy of the different types of sexual abuse and assault lmao? Who does that help? What gives you the right to quantify the pain of other people as well? I could hit you with "well what about victims of incest?" Or something like that and maybe you would double down or make a concession "well okay, under those circumstances MAYBE it's as bad for """osa""" women to be raped as it is for lesbians" but the point of what I'm saying is actually I think that this conversation is gratuitous and I think we've lost by entertaining it at all. You can have a conversation about factors which might exacerbate the suffering caused by sexual assault/abuse without devolving into "and that's why none of you will ever suffer like *I* have suffered" etc and so on. Why does it even seem attractive to you to feel like no one could ever understand how particularly damaged you are? Would you not rather try to relate to people who are trying to reach out through similar experiences to you than like languish alone like this? Like refuse to let people relate to you and then claim that they can't/won't? Idk lol

#you need to like... think abt your priorities

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nx08h63bitchyobservationnerd · 2 months ago

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scentedchildnacho · 4 months ago

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My case manager wanted to know if I applied for section 8 so I told her as far as I have been told that program closed a long time ago.....and she asked me if I wanted to rent.......so i told her if its just useing stuff the same cycle starts over and over and over.....

I told her I do want to work it out with a community project so I'm there to improve a property not just use stuff.....

So far the communities I have met have been very radically opposed to my birth families values so I haven't met people I felt safe to create moss and roots with yet ....

Their either very folk or very people.....no moderate point to be made....

If their folks entirely different food systems are required or my prior life would just keep coming back at me to abuse me

If their people my prior life keeps stalking and finding me to abuse me.....

Im not normal and maybe need an LGBT family or these subtle post modernities dont manifest truly safe potentials

Those women at the project wanted to abuse me and there was no lesbian authority to explain seriously that gainful employment has to constantly be the focused goal...if its hetero normative they just feel bad for abusers that they werent as privileged as they could be

She advertised mentalism to me because I said I was taking classes to find therapies so I could interview for project communities.....

Then wanted.......to know if I applied to medi cal so I told her genetic research groups should really fund their own practice asking the tax payer to fund drugs like warfarin or clopidopteral or codeine is really experimental potentially life threatening ideas....

They want to know something great and now they know off objectified people's life

They call the drugs mentalism but it is a lot of caucasian dooming paranormal blood letting stuff

It is all really racist ...and people who wish seizures on people who are not fighting or have stopped fighting should realize those were weapons people should not have ever used

This woman at food line told me her daughter sporadically had cancer all over her body just sudden out of nowhere like LDL cholesterol....

Like all over her body rapidly randomly and suddenly and she died....

She told me I don't have to take the drugs....so I told her technically I can file a law suit allegeing use of force to participate in drug study but really they will perpetrate and force people to litigate after

The United States as an entity is very bad inproficient and unable to prevent terrorism like hygiene terrorists

I mean it could be the next time I am checked into the hospital and be given iatrogenic aids

Mom that little aids quilt boy am I going to have to take another bleed....

Seizures weapons people should not have used....i watched this confession on soft white underbelly of mafia activity and it's the sheer amount of casualties possible of men like john wayne gacy

Suddenly there are these non emancipated really sad battered and neglected women's cases then there are all these men capable of gender neutrality cultures from far away europe and these guys start going around in missing women's make up and fashion opportunities and it's what to do with these women

Armenian conflict basis of things if women are not who occupy a certain place of inheritable decisions a lot of men die for arrogant nicotine science assumption

I am who is from and raised in Wisconsin and im who aquired certain disciplined spending in reform and they steal from me and roads aren't fixed and schools won't let in harmless difference ..etc

Catholic school at Vietnam church was really homogenized and that's not normal for catholicism....

Then parking available to really violent sex traffickers like warrants in Cambodia also .....instead of some plump black girl film

Its china segregation schools black people live around there and maybe would have preferred to not traffick their children segregatively

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umbralsong · 5 months ago

Text

Addendum:

Player: Will you save the children of Ulma's tribe like you promised? Astarion: I'm not sure, I've been weighing my options. On the one hand, they're the key to my unlocking eternal power and freedom. On the other... Well. It's my fault they're here. Yes, it was Cazador's command, I had no choice. But... It seems now I do.

Devnotes say he says it with a sigh. He's resigned to taking whatever responsibility falls on his head.

Patch 7 gave Astarion a few more lines in his Act III quest, which means more racist fans are out telling people he is perfectly innocent by virtue of his enslavement. Imagine being related to genocide victims, or being someone currently suffering under genocide, and seeing the fandom of the Game of the Year gleefully declare that marginalized children should be murdered and condemned to the Hells for more power for a white man.

Let's hammer home the astounding lack of sensitivity in the writing surrounding genocide victims for the sake of the illusion of edginess:

More excellent tags by eyebagtree:

#the most bizarre choice about the game (given i don't play dnd so this may have been a bullshit “following the lore” thing)#was just how racist nearly every damn romanceable companion was#and how it's brushed off as a “haha funny casual banter” thing by not only the fandom but *the game itself*#i.e. shadowheart's constant racism towards lae'zel that a lot of the fandom turns into “tsundere lesbians” or whatever#(not to mention that there were entireties of marginalized races in there that were deemed as “having an inherently evil culture”)#(esp. the drow)#you have an entire world where there isn't queerphobia but pretty much everyone has to be wildly racist???#and the one black character having the least amount of story and personality and pretty much no backbone???#no matter how much i love the game or the characters within it it beyond pisses me off with how sloppily the racism is written in#as if it was tacked on as an afterthought and seen as a generic “conflict and tension” thing#plus the whole gnome slavery thing and how shittily that was handled#i mean jesus were there no sensitivity writers in the room whatsoever??#not to mention that while all of the other characters are given freedom from their abusers wyll has to deal with mizora just#staying in camp constantly??#AND larian thought it was a good idea “for the lols” for the player to have sex with said abuser??#just careless writing all around

1000% agreed. Racism isn't "conflict and tension," and it's disgusting to cheapen the history-altering effects to a character flaw. [Queerphobia is inherently linked to racism and settler colonialism], so that shit falls flat for me. If Larian wanted to write an Astarion in-line with what this shit really means:

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The Psychology of Colonialism: Memmi splits the psychological conditions of the colonizer and the colonized into four parts. The colonizer who accepts, who I’ll call Christopher, the colonizer who refuses, who I’ll call John, the colonized who accepts, who I’ll call Candace, and the colonized who refuses, who I’ll call Nat. The Colonizer Who Accepts: Christopher When Christopher the colonizer accepts his The Colonizer Who Accepts role, he becomes a colonialist. But it means he has to accept the fact that his position of privilege is nonlegitimate. He usurped it by force. So the only way he can really enjoy his position would be to absolve himself of the guilt of the conditions under which it was attained. That’s why Christopher falsifies history, creates racist mythology, rewrites laws, and attempts to whitewash his legacy. That’s why he emphasizes his superiority while casting aspersions on the colonized. He has to do whatever it takes to justify his evils, to uplift himself to the skies while grinding those below him under ground. Deep down, Christopher knows all this is messed up, but he can’t admit that to himself, he has to keep degrading the colonized. And so, just as the colonial situation manufactures the colonized, Christopher the colonialist is also transformed. Now he cheers on torture, discrimination, and massacre. He becomes a reactionary, a conservative, and a fascist. But the condemnation that he carries in his heart can never truly be erased. It pisses him off that he relies on the colonized to maintain the colony, even though he came looking for profit and already has a homeland. But he has to direct his anger somewhere, so he becomes a racist. And not just any racism, a racism so fundamentally ingrained in his personality. His racism is built on three major components: 1) That there exists a major gulf between him and the colonized, 2) that he can exploit these differences to his benefit, and 3) that these differences are absolute and cannot be changed. Therefore, he’s able to remain separate from the community of the colonized by halting any social mobility and he’s able to continue to justify his superiority. Added bonus, he gets to feel good about himself while doing it. He becomes a “humanitarian”. Surely, the colonized needed him to bring the light of civilization. Look at them, so stupid and servile. All this is natural, and eternal, so he has nothing to worry about. If he enjoys a couple perks in his quest to civilize them, well surely it’s just justice. The colonized should be grateful. Christopher, “benevolent master of the natural order”. Don’t question it. Aimé Césaire was right to say that: “Colonization dehumanizes even the most civilized man. [It] inevitably tends to change him who undertakes it; that the colonizer, who in order to ease his conscience gets into the habit of seeing the other man as an animal, accustoms himself to treating him like an animal, and tends objectively to transform himself into an animal.”

This feels to me like when a certain white male writer wrote for Dragon Age (who wrote two Brown elves who were former sex slaves), and every game let you commit genocide against Jewish/Indigenous/Roma-coded people with little consequence, and the last one was named for a straight-up [Catholic church-approved genocide]. Someone has some deeply disturbing views, or is incredibly irresponsible.

Racism in Astarion's Writing

There is a fascist takeover happening in Europe. Again. With pogroms targeting racialized and marginalized groups. Being at all silent about how media affects our perception of reality would be irresponsible of me. I stand in solidarity with you all. I will polish this as I go along, but this is for anyone who wants to understand.

Block, report, and move on from the inevitable racist shitheads. We have work to do.

Donate to Gaza here: https://gazafunds.org/ Support good causes with a click here: https://arab.org/ Ceasefire Now: https://ceasefire-now.com/ Donate to the [Sidewalk School] [Pay your rent], settlers. [KOSA Resources]

There is a... let's be charitable for a moment and call it "knee-jerk" reaction to discussions of racism in fandom. To call it character assassination, exaggeration, slander - anything but to acknowledge the dehumanizing system of power that underlies every part of this imbalance. It's only scary if you don't understand it, and as part of another group under siege for half a millenia, I am intimately familiar with it.

There are Romani perspectives on Astarion's storyline I would encourage everyone to read before mine. I don't wish to link them in case this post gets targeted. Please lend them your kind support and sincere gratitude for their contributions.

I do not "forgive" a character for questionable biases. I wonder why the writers put it there. I question its purpose in the narrative and the effect it has on the story and audience.

Let's discuss the effect:

The racism in Astarion's storyline serves no purpose, but the effects are harmful.

I've played evil (poorly). But I also have a very fucked up sense of humor and understand the appeal of a well-written fucked up little dude. Take, for instance, this Warlock from a BG3 playthrough:

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Absolutely vile, but a clearly theatrical/satirical look at a classist piece of shit, you know, that sort of character. Take it as a palate cleanser after reading, and then gather your strength.

This is not a post about liking flawed characters. Please take your strawman, dust behind you, and move along.

I often find the trouble with depicting racism is the inherent unfamiliarity with the subject in a majority-white writer's room and company. There is an idea of what it entails, but not its purpose, and not its day-to-day application.

There is a veritable treasure trove of knowledge out there that I've ended up having to take in small parts. It is not easy hearing about the ways people have hurt others, systemic and otherwise. I genuinely want us to learn from this and be better for one another.

So when I see depictions of people who are Indigenous and Romani and Sinti, I wonder... why? And why were these writers chosen for this character/storyline?

In Astarion's storyline, from what I can tell, he makes light of stealing the Gur children. I can tell this is meant to be a depiction of guilt and deflection. What sucks is the fact that he's ultimately a white man making light of the fact that's... historically what they do.

The point, I believe, of him "following Cazador's orders" is to invoke the Nuremberg Defense. The tragedy is that Astarion, by D&D logic, literally couldn't do anything but follow his command. It's implied because he's defensive as hell, but he feels exceedingly guilty regardless. For all we know, it's earned.

Is Racist Magistrate Astarion still canon? If so, his "grudge" against the Gur is motivated by racism. Is that something we are prepared to confront with more than a line? Was he just a (maybe recently?) privileged asshole exercising his newfound power? In that case, his use of systemic power over the Gur may be read as a parallel to his storyline. But then the Gur need autonomy as well.

There is something to be deconstructed here, but I would not know its intimacies from my perspective. Others would. They may restructure it altogether so that it makes sense for their experience.

Here is what I know, and it should not be on this group alone to point it out: The inappropriate misuse of these tropes has encouraged racism in the fandom at large.

Performing a script well is not the fault of the voice actor, nor is the twisted logic of fans the fault of the writers. I am pointing out that reckless inclusion of certain ideas can have very unfortunate implications:

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So stealing their children, expressing little remorse, and then "sparing" them the pain of executing stolen marginalized children is a good ending? I'm adding some untagged comments here for emphasis:

I find it interesting the game recognizes the complexity of the situation regarding the spawn and doesn’t punish the players or Astarion whatever the choice as long as they aren’t doing it for selfish reasons. Some good, thoughtful writing there.

Wow, even as a dedicated Astarion romancer, I was beginning to feel like it was a little unfair how much more recognition Neil is getting over the rest of the cast, but now I’m reminded of why. I’ve finished the game 3 times and never even considered not sparing the spawn, because if he deserves a chance, why don’t they? But the conviction he has behind his words in this makes me think I’ve been making the wrong choice.

Person 1: I really dislike Ulma. She’s such a judgmental Monday morning quarterback. Person 2: same, no matter what you do she'll blame Astarion for things that were outside his control

Spawn Astarion sparing their children as spawn is better and in line with his story, but for some reason, that isn't acknowledged through commentary, dialogue, or mechanics... thus, again, unfortunate implications:

To the spawn Astarion, Greetings from the family of Ulma, hunters of monsters and keepers of peace across Faerun. We know this letter finds you well, for although we hunt you no longer, we do sometimes keep a watch. Your restraint and control over your bloodlust has been admirable. Indeed, it has been an inspiration for our children, who have struggled with their own hunger. These last months have been a difficult time for our people. We have protected and nurtured our children as best we can, and we have learned much. Herbs we once used to dull our foes' minds are now sedatives to ease hunger and pain, restraints built to hold the undead now protect them from themselves. There has been a lot of pain, but a lot of progress too. Our children learned discipline and control, while we learned compassion and patience. There was a time when we would have destroyed any undead creature, our own blood or not, and called it a mercy. But then we met you. Wer saw that redemption was possible. Difficult, yes. Painful. But possible. You saved our children first from Cazador, and then from us. For that, we thank you. We will watch you still, but with more admiration than fear. Walk in peace, Astarion.

And, according to these commenters, it's better to kill them because the marginalized Elder is never satisfied with the man who stole their children?

It sounds so casual, I think. Perhaps they don't know what stealing children from a community really means.

60s scoop/residential school/reeducation camps trigger warning:

(The Scream by Kent Monkman. Alt text in link.)

Look at this painting.

Take it in with me for a moment. It is a scene taken from many memories and one. Look at how these families fought to stay together. Look at how they fight priests, nuns, and state officials - ones who my friend assured me are very friendly - how they grasp at their children with such painful desperation on their faces. It is a way for one to bear witness to unfathomable love and heartbreak.

When genocide deniers play their games, this is what they want you to pretend never happened. Don't mind the tens of thousands of child graves, or the stolen land. Just pretend these people are criminals out to swindle you, or steal your wives.

Growing up, listening to survivor testimonies, and the sweet reverberance of the remnants of survivors of slavery, you appreciate what you have. You remember every kindness. You love what you lost, and what you gained through gritted teeth.

And, you remember the unfathomable pain. It's why you promise to stop it from ever happening again, to anyone.

It is very sad. A heart is a heavy burden. Embrace it. To love is to live again, and to live again means you understand Never Again. Because people deserve to be happy. And that's worth a fight. That's why it's worth depicting with care and love, even when the subject matter threatens to choke you.

Let's get into Cazador Szarr.

I've played the game and understand that he has a backstory and some depth. What disturbs me is that an Asian man has the bloodiest, most brutal scene in the game with a white man killing him.

I can't let this be undiscussed as sinophobia rises in a pandemic. I am no authority, but I'm not ignorant. These posts are found in discussions of racism in BG3 and I would, again, prefer not to put a target on their back. Instead, show them support.

In terms of diverse storytelling, casting, and roles, I would only ask that a historical and sensitive look be applied. Hire people from these communities to act, direct, and write for that role. Writing is never easy. There is a weight and responsibility to it, but it's worth it to touch as many souls as possible.

I respect this history. That is why it is not something I believe should be thrown in as flavor text. It's why history needs to be respected as a great backstory to everything we create. We need each other, and we need art we create together.

The debt is yet to be paid.

#bg3 racism #larian racism #bg3 critical #larian critical #astarion critical #astarion ancunin #astarion discourse #fandom racism #fandom critical #bg3 #baldur's gate 3 #my writing #some will claim it's a lack of media literacy but it's just racism #the optics of making a racist romance option is... yikes #I know he can redeem himself somewhat but oof #don't think that's how someone with the background would have handled it #Astarion's arc is weird bc they keep piling things onto it rather than plot-relevant political intrigue #it was already evil with his siblings and whatever “7” number they wanted with his victims #adding bigotry was unnecessary and it's honestly so gross hearing something akin to modern day annihilation rhetoric repeated in fandom

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