#Jaehaerys I

[abiiibabejpeg]

King Aegon I's Grandchildren

Children of King Aenys I Targaryen and Queen Alyssa Velaryon

(Eldest to youngest) Rhaena, Aegon, Viserys, Jaehaerys, and Alysanne

[westerosisim]

Alysanne Targaryen - daughter of King Maegor the Cruel & Queen Ceryse Hightower

I love a bit of counterfactual history! I just discovered that Alysanne (maybe) was Maegor & Ceryse's daughter in a previous version of the Targaryen family tree and had to go see what she would look like as their child.

Alysanne Targaryen - daughter of King Aenys Targaryen & Queen Alyssa Velaryon

Here's what she actually looks like in my game!

[horizon-verizon]

What do you think of George referring to Aegon and Helaena as "King Aegon" and "Queen Helaena" and Rhaenyra by her name in the new (now deleted) blog?

(Webpage Link)

And I said this in the comments of this post, but repeating myself: he's writing in the mood and "perspective" of the KLers who resented Rhaenyra and loved Helaena for the "sweetness" they felt Rhaenyra no longer had. I also wrote another independent post abt what sort of love the smallfolk had for Helaena HERE, which is very important for anyone to read BEFORE reading this post bc I'm not going to repeat myself. You also should probably read THIS POST that goes into how the Shepherd characterizes Helaena vs Rhaenyra.

A) The Actual Comments I Wrote:

[*EDIT: 9/8/24*] Adding/correcting, I was describing the free indirect style:

This is a literary style that allows the narrator’s voice to share with us the words, thoughts or feelings of the characters, without telling us that this is what they are doing. This means that the character’s thoughts or words slip into the third-person narrative, subtly shifting the perspective from that of the narrator to that of the character. It’s almost as though the narrator is the character for a moment, but they’re not – they’re still the narrator. Importantly, the speech or thought is not attributed to the character (for example with a ‘she thought’ or ‘he imagined’), so the reader must pick up on clues in the text to understand that these are the thoughts of the character, not the narrator.

[*END OF EDIT*]

And in response to what GRRM said that started this whole debate after someone else asked:

B) Jaehaerys, Rego Draz, and the Taxes/Executions (for context and comparison b/t smallfolk's reactions to taxes and executions):

I don't deny that the smallfolk loved her and GRRM was being sympathetic for Helaena when he wrote that post.

I am saying that:

He was writing, in that post, sympathetically bc Helaena was so from the smallfolk and Rhaenyra was reviled both here and at large by the narrative bc she was simply the more active party while being female; Helaena never actually ruled, she was always a consort and her person was more the accessory of Aegon or as a representation of "goodness", esp when the Shepherd contrasts Helaena's "purity" to Rhaenyra's "whorish" "evil", which further encourages the peasants to riot as they are already rioting

the smallfolk's sort of love for Helanea was not the sort that comes from just appreciating the person as is but as a contrast to the person they came to despise. And from that phenomenon, the smallfolk revealed another interesting phenomenon of how the actual people, the subjects themselves, can switch between diff "definitions" of queenship. Not kingship, QUEENSHIP, precisely bc gender, ethnicity, etc. did/does affect how the public will see a ruler's actions' effects on them.

The Shepherd and Helaena v Rhaenyra ("Rhaenyra Overthrown"):

When Jaehaerys strung up Rego Draz's murderers (Rhaenyra strung up those she had executed), it was during a time of "peacetime"/no war even as it was also a time of widespread fatal illness; he had no outside enemies who could invade at the same time, bc his mother and stepfather took care of that in a sorta-similar situation when he himself was still underage ("The Long Reign-Jaehaerys and Alysanne-Policy, Progeny, and Pain"):

Rego Draz, like Celtigar but much smarter about it, still also put taxes on common KLers after he and Jaehaerys did on luxury items (nobles) out of necessity. But the smallfolk of KL still took issue with Rego and not Jaehaerys both bc of said taxes AND bc Rego was a Essosi foreigner.

So yes, Jaehaerys did have to deal with a dying and ill populace and used an actually consummate master of coin...but those taxes still angered smallfolk enough towards violence & rape & looting ("The Long Reign - Jaehaerys and Alysanne - Policy, Progeny, and Pain"):

bc they were being taxed already through a gate tax BEFORE the Shivers came ("Birth, Death, and Betrayal Under Jaehaerys I"):

Were Rhaenyra's taxes very heavy, yes. Did she have much other option during a war where food was scarce and an invasion could happen at any moment AND the greens depleted the treasury she sought to quickly fill, no. Were there rumors PLUS the Shepherd's anti dragon, anti "bad" woman preachings incentivizing already resentful and starving people to riot against the woman ruling over them who they previously loved [evidence in the next section], yes. Did Jaehaerys really go through a similar situation, even with the Shivers being so terrible, no, bc he had more than Rego Draz, he had his own mother and stepfather basically pave the rulership-way for him before he came of age to become king for him and Rego to be able to implement the taxes as well as they did. The same Alyssa and Rogar who the KLers also took issue with for the taxes they made on them when they were trying to rebuild the Dragonpit ("A Surfeit of Rulers"):

Yes, Jaehaerys-Rego fixed this situation & learned from it--once again, neither ALyssa-Rogar-Edwell nor Jaehaerys-Rego had to contend with an ACTIVE war and a TOTALLY DEPLETED treasury nor the PREJUDICE AND HIGHER EXPECTATIONS against a female ruler. So....

C) Use of the Book to Show What I Mean abt GRRM's Use of the Smallfolk's Perspective and the Timeline/Transition of such b/t Before The Fall of King's Landing and After It

Before the Fall of King's Landing, & the taxes the KLers loved Rhaenyra as the "Realm's Delight" and such a moniker in the book connoted an image of pleasantness:

("Rhaenyra Triumphant")

("A Question of Succession")

("A Question of Succession")

("A Son for a Son")

("A Son for a Son")

Refer back to the very first pic/quote I give in this section. The moment Rhaenyra showed herself to be...not so "sweet" by the taxes during a time of fear of invasions/retaliations from the greens and their dragons, starvation, etc. bc...war (which she did bc the greens looted the royal treasury BEFORE she even landed & took KL but the smallfolk didn't know about that nor would they ever come to), and the previous image of her being charming, lovely, and innocently beautiful, innocently childlike transformed into her innate cruelty.

So yes, they resented Rhaenyra and many would not have wanted her as their Queen not just bc of taxes but bc the taxes were compounded by the...disillusionment(?) of that image/character of her through said taxation. thus the lack of "Queen" for Rhaenyra and "Queen" for Helaena and "Prince" for Maelor, both people who have no power, were very vulnerable to the actions of those around them, and nearly childlike or was an actual child whether in reality or in their imagination. At least under the greens--who Helaena is inevitably connected to--they weren't being taxed and Helaena has no real power herself to ever had affected the smallfolk's life so strongly.

This is what I think is being expressed through GRRM's writing in that particular blog post.

As for reactions to Aegon's coronation, we have Munkun saying the smallfolk were "most[ly] confused" by the announcement of Aegon's coronation and saying (some) Rhaenyra's name instead VS Munkun saying that there were many cheers when the actual coronation happened ("The Blacks and the Greens"):

[vaegonposting]

can't decide if he's angrier about the betrothal or the stupid pillow case they made him wear

look 100% daella deserved better but a lot of the people being upset that vaegon didn't want to marry her strike me as

[bbygirl-aemond]

Jaehaerys was such a shit dad he fucked up all of his children thank god for Alysanne

anon i am so sorry to ruin this for you, but alysanne really wasn't a good mom or grandmom to specifically the women within her family. she didn't have as much power as viserys, but she managed to use her power to control her female descendants' marriages to straight up ruin most of their lives 😬

she allowed 16yo daella to be married off to a 36yo rodrik arryn (she did give daella two other options, but they were both fully grown men). teenage daella soon fell pregnant and wrote to her mother saying she was scared for her life. she died in childbirth.

she betrothed 15yo viserra to the already "old" and "very stout" lord manderly, who'd already gone through four wives, and who viserra made clear she did not want to marry. she did this even though viserra was young because she disliked that viserra was currying favor with men due to her beauty. this directly pushed viserra to slip her guards and try to enjoy some freedom before being married to a fat old grandpa, which led to the accident that killed her.

maegelle was kind of alright but she was raised to be a silent sister from birth, she never had a choice in it. alysanne decided her entire life's course for her as a baby and she was never allowed to consider any other path.

gael honestly had a very clingy relationship with alysanne because by the time she was born alysanne had already lost several children. i think alysanne using gael as an emotional crutch for losing children directly contributed to gael later killing herself at 19yo after losing a baby.

alyssa was allowed to marry baelon when she was just 15yo. some people say it was nice of alysanne to let alyssa marry who she wanted, but given alysanne's track record i think alyssa's wants didn't factor into this decision as much as baelon's did. and regardless, allowing alyssa to marry and become pregnant so young put her at risk for the childbirth complications that later killed her.

saera i could write an entire essay about. she was constantly ignored by her parents since she was the ninthborn and a girl, and was punished when this neglect made her act out for attention. jaehaerys was willing to let saera marry one of the three men she favored, but alysanne refused. when saera was found to have kissed and possibly slept with these men, alysanne said she should be punished, and stood by while saera was forced to watch from afar as her own father killed one of her male companions. she then forced saera to join the faith, where she was abused for over a year (her head was shaved, she was physically beaten, etc.). i don't blame saera for running away and remaining no contact with alysanne for the rest of alysanne's life.

alysanne even did her grandchildren dirty. she allowed 11yo aemma to be married to viserys, and later allowed viserys to consummate the marriage when aemma was just 13yo even though maesters warned them it would irreparably damage aemma's reproductive system and body. this caused aemma lifelong health issues that later killed her. like this is literally what happened with daella, only much worse, and they absolutely knew better but didn't care enough about poor aemma's safety.

listen, i appreciate the things alysanne accomplished as jaehaerys's advisor. she was definitely the biggest force of good for women that we ever got under the targaryens (save for daenerys). but it's not a coincidence that alysanne's relationships with all of her daughters ended in tragedy when her relationships with her sons did not.

she is complicit in the unhappiness and death that faced her descendants like daella, alyssa, and aemma for allowing them to become pregnant so young. she was slut-shamey towards both viserra and saera for daring to have agency over their sexuality, even more so than jaehaerys which is really saying something. she had a talent for alienating her daughters and making choices for their lives without regard for their happiness. contrast this to her relationships with her sons, whom she allowed the agency she never granted her daughters: she allowed both aemon and baelon to choose their own wives, rather than following precedent that would dictate aemon marry alyssa.

basically, alysanne was definitely a feminist when it came to policy, but her internalized misogyny jumped out HARD when it came to her family's affairs. and her female descendants paid the price for it, with their happiness, with their lives, or both.

[witchthewriter]

𝐑𝐡𝐚𝐞𝐧𝐲𝐬 𝐓𝐚𝐫𝐠𝐚𝐫𝐲𝐞𝐧 𝐈𝐈 (𝐕𝐞𝐥𝐚𝐫𝐲𝐨𝐧) 𝑇𝘩𝑒 𝑄𝑢𝑒𝑒𝑛 𝑊𝘩𝑜 𝑁𝑒𝑣𝑒𝑟 𝑊𝑎𝑠

ENTJ

Ravenclaw

Neutral / Chaotic Good ... I’m a bit unsure of her moral alignment tbh

Queen of Wands

Aquarius Sun, Capricorn Moon, Scorpio Rising

The daughter of Prince Aemon Targaryen and Lady Jocelyn Baratheon, Rhaenys II was a capable, spirited and proud woman. Simply said, she was bold. Her namesake was after the sister-wife of Aegon I, the Conqueror of the Seven Kingdoms, Rhaenys Targaryen. 

 Considered next in line for the Iron Throne when her father died, she was known as ‘The Queen Who Never Was.’ And when she was presented to her grandmother, Queen Alysanne, she had said that Rhaenys was “our queen to be.”

   Aemon had been the Prince of Dragonstone, but when he died, King Jaehaerys named Aemon’s younger brother as heir, Baelon (Viserys & Daemon’s father). King Jaehaerys outlived the majority of his children, and was still alive after the death of Baelon. This is when he made the decision that Viserys was to rule, rather than Rhaenys II. 

 With the Targaryen blood running through her veins, Rhaenys was a true dragonrider. She bonded with Meleys the Red Queen, and the pair developed an incredibly deep relationship. It has been said that one was a part of the other. 

   Rhaenys was married to Lord Corlys Velaryon of Driftmark. On their wedding day, she was adamant that she wanted to arrive on Meleys, even after being denied, Rhaenys did so anyway. 

 She had two children with Corlys, Laena and Laenor Velaryon, who she absolutely adored. Motherhood seemed to click with Rhaenys, her love for her children was boundless. That same love was shown in her grandchildren, specifically Baela and Rhaena, Laena’s daughters with Daemon Targaryen. She had a fondness for Rhaenyra’s sons, Jace, Luke and Joffrey, but she knew that they were bastards (show-wise, in the books she would have had the same devotion.)

[gojuo]

As a former law student, I find it so unhinged that there are now fans who have taken to blame jaehaerys for setting the male primogeniture precedent, i'm just like wtf??? People really forget that the Targ reign was still a baby compared to the hundreds and thousands of years reign of the houses in Westeros and now Jae's wrong for actually thinking of preventing a succession crisis that would weaken their young dynasty?? 🥹

Like why not blame Viserys for not even amending the precedent first and Rhaenyra for not actually doing her duty... Jaehaerys and Alysanne put so much effort to build their kingdom only for their descendants to go amok and stomp out all their efforts and these stans would go just hating them because they did something that's negative for their fave 🙃

Lol if Jaehaerys didn't pull the Great Council out of his ass, Rhaenys would have been queen and Viserys, Daemon, Rhaenyra never would have been anywhere near the throne at all. And Jaehaerys didn't set the male-preference primogeniture either, that was always Andal law that the Targaryens adapted to when they colonized Westeros (they had to make concessions in some ways like converting to the Faith).

I suppose some form of male-preference inheritance laws were also in place for Valyrians, though, because Aegon the Conqueror became Lord of Dragonstone over his older sister Visenya after their father died.

But Jaehaerys definitely was a misogynist that fucked with Andal law to suit his own tastes since he managed to subvert the "daughters before uncles" part of the law by creating a gathering of Lords, the Great Council, to have it reaffirmed that the succession of the Iron Throne could not pass to a woman, or through a woman to male descendants (called the Iron Precedent of the GC101). That old decrepit couldn't help himself but punch Rhaenys down twice like fucking hell man 💀 Before this GC101, the royal succession did consider women as contenders, eg. Maegor vs. Rhaena, Aerea vs. Jaehaerys, (because that's how Andal law works), however after the Iron Precedent the succession for the throne turned into absolute male primogeniture.

That's also why Daemon was considered Viserys' heir before he had any sons and over Rhaenyra, since that's how Viserys got the throne over Rhaenys and Laenor in the first place(*). And that's why Viserys named Rhaenyra heir at sword point through oaths, because Daemon had slighted him for the "heir for a day" remark and Viserys didn't want another Great Council to be called upon just for the Lords to make Daemon his heir anyway.

*Most tend to forget it for some reason, but the GC101 wasn't between Rhaenys and Viserys, it was between Laenor and Viserys. Rhaenys had already been passed over once when Jaehaerys made Baelon his heir after Aemon died, and not Aemon's only child Rhaenys, as Andal law meant to.

[lunarmoonanons]

Her Nameday 1

🌕 🌖 🌗 🌘 🌑 🌒 🌓 🌔 🌕

YN has her eighth nameday and she wants her entire family there to celebrate.

🌕 🌖 🌗 🌘 🌑 🌒 🌓 🌔 🌕

Masterlist

92 AC

YN awoke with a great emotion in her stomach. Today was her eighth nameday and she was very excited. Gael had promised her a special present and her mother promised to quell her fury against her father for the day and have him over to Dragonstone for her celebration. She was promised her whole family could be here for her name day celebrations, as her mother refused to go back to Kingslanding. No matter how her father had written that celebrations should be held in front of the whole court. Her mother countered that she was too young to participate in those celebrations and it would overwhelm her precious baby. YN didn’t care either way, she was just excited to have her family over for the whole day. Her brother Vaegon had arrived a few days prior and her sister Maegelle arrived yesterday. 

YN loved her siblings dearly. Even if most of them were too old to play with her. She was loved dearly by them and cherished by many of them. 

YN got up from her bed and looked around her room. She caught the image of Gael sleeping in her own bed. Getting up from her soft featherbed, YN tiptoed over to her sister’s bed and without much thought jumped ontop of her. Jostling the older girl from her rest quite suddenly. But she couldn’t bring herself to be mad at her little sister. Only sitting up and rubbing her eyes. 

“Wake up, Gael! It’s my nameday! It’s today!” YN shook her sister and bounced on her lap. Gael smiled and wrapped her arms around YN, tackling her to the bed. 

“My sister! It’s your special day!” Gael laughed and began tickling her. 

YN laughed and squirmed out of her arms. Rolling out of the bed and onto the floor. Gael looked down at her and smiled a great smile. YN sat up and pulled herself off of the ground. She ran to her bed and jumped on top of it, standing high on the soft surface. She let out a loud laugh then flopped backward onto the bed. 

“Today will go just as I want it, Gael. Momma and Daddy are gonna get along. Daemon will play with me and you. Rhaenys will be here and so will Viserys. Our brothers and sister will spend the night together. And everything will go perfectly.” YN explained while staring at the ceiling. She tilted her head up to look at Gael once again. “Won’t that be perfect?”

Gael got up from bed and walked over to YN. She played with her fingers once she reached YN. Smiling at her tiny hand. “If you will it, today will go just as you want.” Then leaving down she placed a kiss on her cheek. “Come. Let’s go wake up momma.” 

YN then followed her out of the room. The two, still in their nightgowns, ran through the castle toward their mother’s room. But before they could reach her they bumped into a gray figure clasped in Maester robes. This pale looking man stopped and looked down at the small creatures in front of him. 

“YN? Is that you?” He asked and knelt down to look at her. 

YN tilted her head and took a moment looking at the man before recognizing him. He was the same man from her brother Aemon’s funeral. Her brother who became a maester. YN brought a hand out and touched his cold cheek. Smiling at him once she knew who he was. 

“Vaegon.” YN said and leant forward to hug him. He brought a hand to her back and squished her against himself. 

“I haven’t seen you since Viserra’s funeral. You wouldn’t remember that. But you were smiling at me. You were the first child to ever smile at me.” Vaegon said and Pulled back to look at her. He gave an uncertain smile, one that would turn away most children but YN simply smiled back. 

“I’m glad you’re here. I wanted my whole family here.” YN said and grabbed Gael’s hand.

“YN wants everyone to feast together.” Gael said shyly. She was not as comfortable around Vaegon. “We’re trying to find momma.” 

“Well I won’t stop you. Go along, she’s just down that corridor.” He gestured and watched as they skipped down the corridor. 

As YN and Gael found their way to their mother’s room. Gael stopped her sister when she heard their mother’s voice raising as she spoke to someone. Pressing her ear against the door, making YN press hers against the door as well. They listened to their mother speaking to another in her room. 

“I don’t care how much he claims to value me! He clearly values no woman if he thinks we lack the wit to rule. Nevermind the tasks that I have accomplished as queen. How many laws that are passed in my name. He will not see it.” Alysanne said in a loud voice. 

“Mother please. The realm needs you both united. Your family needs you both united.” The other voice pleaded. 

“No Maegelle. I will not bend on this. He would not let me bring Saera home when Viserra died, he thinks I must lack wit and intelligence. I cannot let my daughters be around that man.” 

Before the two could reach any conclusion, YN and Gael burst into the room. YN looked at the Septa who sat across from her mother. She guessed this was Maegella, her older sister who became a septa long before she was born. The two older women smiled at the two girls that stood in front of them. Alysanne opened her arms to her girls, smiling at them warmly. 

“My girls.” Alysanne said as they ran into her arms. “You both are not dressed. Were you running around the castle in your nightgowns?” 

The two girls giggled and smothered their mother in kisses. YN climbed ontop of her mother and sat upon her lap. She smiled and played with her mother’s hair before looking at Maegelle. Her older sister smiled and held out a hand to the youngest girl, which YN grabbed and squeezed tightly. 

“Are you excited for today dear sister?” Maegelle asked and pulled Gael to her. 

“I’m excited to have everyone here! Rhaenys promised me a pony! And Baelon is going to bring Viserys and Daemon!” YN said quickly. Practically vibrating in her seat. 

“Yes, Yes, my love, but you must get dressed or you cannot receive anyone today.” Alysanne said and stood up with her daughter carried in her arms. 

“I want to wear pink today!” YN said. 

With a warm hum, Alysanne carried her daughter back to her room, with Gael walking close behind her. Alysanne wanted today to go perfect for her dearest daughter. Even if she had to tolerate her husband for a night. She knew Jaehaerys would try to convince her to make YN go back to Kingslanding. But nothing would make her separate from her youngest daughter. When they made it to her room, the maids were there setting out various dresses for her daughter to wear. YN and Gael ran to their dresses and both chose a pink dress. Alysanne watched as the maids dressed them and did their hair. Gael had hers up in various braids and YN had hers in dressed down half braids. 

“You look beautiful my darlings.” Maegelle said.

A servant entered the room and bowed to the queen. “Many pardons your majesty, but the king and the princes are here.” 

That made YN look up and run out of the room. Alysanne called out to her, but YN did not hear her. She ran to the great hall where various nobles were and caught sight of Baelon and his sons. She ran up to him with her arms outstretched. 

“Baelon!” YN shouted and jumped into his arms. He lifted her up and spun her around. 

“My lovely sister!” He said loudly and kissed her cheek. “It’s your nameday! Are you happy!”

“I’m so happy and excited!” YN exclaimed as he put her down. She turned to Daemon and gave him a tight hug. “I missed you Daemon.” He hugged her very tightly. Almost reluctantly he pulled away from her. 

She wanted to say so many things to Daemon, she missed her playmate very deeply. He missed her more so than she missed him. Viserys said his hellos and gave her a sweet hug. YN spoke very fast to her nephews and waved her hands around quickly. She almost didn’t notice the man the nobles were crowding till he said her name in a soft way. 

“YN…” 

She turned and saw her father for the first time in months. Tears welling up in her eyes, YN ran forward and jumped into her fathers arms. Crying for her father and shoving her face into the crook of his neck. 

“I missed you daddy.” YN cried and held him close. 

“My darling girl. My very precious girl.” Jaehaerys whispered and held her close. The various nobles smiled at the sweet scene. For the two of them, the world did not exist. YN loved and missed her father. Their sweet scene was interrupted by her mother coming in to see them. She still loved Jaehaerys, and as angry as she was with him she could not pull her daughter away from her father. She merely called out her name, making YN pull away and smile at her mother. 

“Mama look! It’s daddy!” 

“I see that my love. I’m glad you are so happy.” She smiled and ushered Gael forth to welcome her father. 

“Today is going to be perfect!” YN exclaimed and held both of her parents hands. Connecting them through their precious daughter. It was her eighth nameday and everyone wanted to make it perfect for the youngest and dearest of Jaehaerys’ children.

@ladyodium @electronickingmentality

[queensof-my-heart]

“Alysanne deserves freedom from Jaehaerys 😌”

You mean her loving husband…who she only fought with a couple times before they reconciled. “He kept her pregnant for years!!” - or maybe they just fucked a lot because they I don’t know…love each other!!

[faeporcelain]

25$ commission for @montjoyswp 🐉🐉

Ocs are from “Rotted traditions” over on wattpad!!

Characters from left right: Aemma, Viserys, Rhaenyra, Baelon, Visella (OC), Daemon, Jaehaerys, Viselys (OC) and Alysanne

[alannybunnue]

Poor Aemon tries his best to keep his younger brother and half-uncle/Brother-In-Law from killing each other. Jocelyn tries to comfort her new Sister-In-Law (who became not in the way she expected). Alysanne wants to hit Baelon over the head even more than before and Jaehaerys is just disappointed.

Saera finds the whole situation hilarious.

Lady Stark just wanted to get married normally and live her life, but no, fucking Baelon decided to kidnap her and force her to marry him instead with a baby already in her belly.

Jocelyn is just sad for her while Boremund is fuming of anger

Aemon and Alyssane are just tired.

Saera would return home just to see this chaos

Honestly you guys just love battles for women, am i wrong?

[abiiibabejpeg]

Jaehaerys and Alysanne

Their first secret wedding was on 49 AC in Dragonstone. Jaehaerys was 15 years of age and Alysanne was just 13. The king decided not to consummate their marriage yet.

In 51 AC, they had a public wedding ceremony. By this time, the king is now 17 and the new queen is 15, and they consummated the marriage.

[westerosisim]

Jaehaerys I's Family

[horizon-verizon]

Many dudebros like comparing Jon to Jaehaerys, and the idea of Daenerys ending up like Alysanne is extremely heartbreaking, horrifying and devastating to me. All those gains dissolved for what, a trad romance ? No thank you. Unless he willingly abdicates his claim and is her consort, I will continue to see Jonerys as misogynistic and as an active threat to Daenerys’ safety, future, happiness, and political values. And I hope her people make her wary of him too. The time for her to be sweet and yielding with men is over.

Daenerys as a character represents the dissolution of gendered binaries by being both king and queen, khal and khaleesi, prince and princess. To wish for that to be rendered irrelevant just for the sake of Jon, of all people, is maddening. I don’t equality or co-rulers or king consort, he must be the PRINCE consort and Daenerys must be his regnant and the sole authority.

And the narrative has made it pretty clear that Daenerys trying to rule as an equal with a king is dangerous for her. Hizdahr Zo Loraq is the textual proof of that. So too are potential consorts like Quentyn, Cleon the Butcher, Victarion, Euron, and Young Griff.

If people can see that Young Griff is a misogynist who wants to use Daenerys claim to bolster his own, the fanciful and wishful, antifeminist thinking that Jon will be “one of the good ones” is insane to me. No man is one of the good ones, and the only way to ensure that Daenerys succeeds is to ensure that the man she marries has ZERO political ambition or claim to the Iron Throne and obey her in every way. End of story.

I think that the desire to see Jon--as he is instead of a potential Prince Consort (no, not even "King Consort", such a thing can never be a thing in Westeros as it is and Dany is trying to claim Westeros not some fantasy of Westeros)--show himself as "one of the good ones" is pretty incompatible with how Jon's been murdered and brought back, bc he's going to be very different from the already not-revolutionary-rily-written male character that he is.

I also think that the only way they could ever be a "safe" couple--or as close as it gets--is if Jon has literally no way to access authority or his claim in any way. Does it sound extreme, well...women have been in that position for thousands of years in Westeros and rulership in Westeros can only change in its gender dynamics if the society has a greater shift in all other houses. You know when you have to go ham sometimes on men to get them to leave you alone or to see your side of things, think of this on a macro level: yes, you need to "match" the inequality in this specific context of rulership in order for people to be forced to see women as viable rulers. Which can't happen without there being a female regnant ruler...Dany.

[vaegonposting]

Do you have your own ideas (like designs or headcanons) on Saera's bastard children? They're among those ASOIAF characters who don't get much details in-universe so there's A LOT you can do with them

Thanks for the ask!

You're completely right, all we know for certain is that there are at least three boys and one of them looks like Jaehaerys. My personal headcanon is that Saera named each and every one of her children after herself, so say hello to Saerion, Saemond and Saehaerys

Saerion and Grandpa:

I headcanon that Saera had way more children than just those three, but they were the only ones old enough to attend the Council. She herself was only 34 at the time, after all.

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to compile a list of the most cursed-sounding Saera-based child names :-)

[bbygirl-aemond]

All the Laws Viserys Violated by Making Rhaenyra His Heir

Hi hi! I'm in the midst of writing a post about Otto's motivations throughout HotD and the portion about why Otto was so sure Alicent's sons would end up as heir when he pushed her to marry Viserys got wayyy too long so I'm just going to write it here.

I cannot emphasize enough how crazy it was that Viserys kept Rhaenyra as his heir. He has literally no law or precedent to back him up; every single possible precedent actually works against him. Full disclaimer, I genuinely think Rhae would make a good queen and support her over Aegon, but I don't think Viserys made her heir for the right reasons and I think because of the following he was setting her up for failure.

First, Westerosi laws of inheritance say that a woman cannot inherit if she has a trueborn brother. This has always been the case. Remember that as of right now Dorne is NOT a part of the Seven Kingdoms, so the Seven Kingdoms unanimous in its institution of male-based primogeniture. There is literally no region under Viserys's domain where a woman is allowed to inherit if she has any trueborn brothers. You'll never find any instances of a woman being made heir when she has surviving trueborn brothers. When we see women in power, like Jeyne Arryn or even Sansa Stark, it's always because they either have no brothers or their brother is occupied with another title. And honestly, in like half of these cases the title gets passed to a woman's uncle rather than going to her if she's the sole child.

Second, the Great Council of 101 set the precedent that even if a woman is the rightful heir to the Iron Throne, she should be passed over for a male. Rhaenys was Jaehaerys's heir according to Westerosi laws of inheritance as the only child of his previous heir, so she was even backed by the actual law and precedent. And the threat of war was dangerous enough that it forced the literal King of Westeros to concede matters of his personal inheritance and violate precedent just to pass over a woman. That's how sexist they are!!! They literally broke the law so that they could be MORE sexist!!

Third, Widow's Law specifically stipulates that it is not meant to be used to allow a woman to inherit over her trueborn brother. I know a lot of people think this law can actually be used to support Rhaenyra, but I think this ignores the context of the time. Remember, even though Alysanne wrote the law, Jaehaerys is the one who implemented it and is the only one who had the final say in its wording. And, as mentioned above, Jaehaerys straight up does not have the power to allow women to inherit, even when the law is backing him up. He's also a super misogynist and has proven unwilling to listen to Alysanne on feminist matters. So I'm not sure why people think he'd have the desire or the power to instate a law that says a daughter from a first marriage gets to inherit over a son from a second marriage. The lords would never allow something like that, because most of them use and discard their wives for the sole purpose of gaining male heirs and I guarantee there would be a moral panic about women getting too much power the same way there eventually was with Rhaenys and Rhaenyra. And not just the lords, but Jaehaerys would never allow something like that: They're all grade A misogynists, remember? That's why Widow's Law specifically placates the lords by assuring them that their precious eldest son can still inherit before even introducing the new law. Because Jaehaerys knew he wouldn't be supported if he said that women could inherit when they have trueborn brothers, so he made sure everyone knew he wasn't trying to do that.

So Viserys has 0 laws and precedents backing his decision, and 3 laws and precedents that his decision outright violates. And he keeps Rhaenyra as his heir anyways, out of guilt to Aemma. This is why I think Otto was genuinely flabbergasted by Viserys's decision; because he demonstrates remarkable awareness of the misogyny in Westeros and is fully aware that this WILL incite rebellion. He says it himself: It doesn't matter to the lords of Westeros how good or kind Rhaenyra is. They've demonstrated, time and time again, that they will not allow a woman to inherit a title, including the Iron Throne, if there are ANY trueborn male relatives available--AND that they have the power to force the King to let them decide his inheritance!

TLDR: Viserys really did Rhaenyra dirty. He made and kept her his heir out of guilt about Aemma, not out of love for Rhaenyra. And he did this knowing that it violated every single precedent or law relating to inheritance out there, and knowing that previous kings weren't able to uphold their female heirs, even when they had a stronger claim than Rhaenyra would have, because the lords threatened to start a war over it. And that's not even getting into how he completely failed to teach her about politics and did nothing to prepare her to become Queen.

This is also part of why people say it's not just about Rhaenyra's bastards. I fully agree that having them weakened her claim even further, but what you need to understand is that Rhaenyra was doomed from the start. She was doomed by the misogynistic laws, and by the misogynistic precedent, and by the misogynistic lords who never tried to hide that they'd start a war if a woman inherited the throne. And Viserys put that burden on her anyways, and put her and her children's lives in genuine danger, all so he could feel better about his decision to butcher his wife.