#J0nrya

[babybells123]

Do you like work or do you just sit around writing jonsa/sansa meta all day

Awww are you mad anon 🥺did you have fun stalking my account ??? I hope I’ve provided you with enough entertainment . I know you’re checking up on me daily to make sure I’m updating!! Thanks for the concern, I’m touched - truly. I’m sure that entertainment I’ve provided for you and your bullying friends is pertinent enough . And I’m sure you and your friends love to write anti metas because there’s a strange obsession you guys seem to have with invading the Jonsa and sansa tag to shit on it. (I mean seriously, who the fuck creates an anti blog dedicated to hating on a ship??) I never enter the j0nerys tag. I never enter the j0nrya tag. Because why would I willingly subject myself to that when I know I’m bound to disagree with the interpretations and the shippers? Why would I willingly piss myself off?? It’s why I filter that shit and block like crazy. But I couldn’t say the same thing for y’all. Seems like y’all are the ones who are jobless with your obsession in spewing condescending hateful asks for no reason at all. I’m just having fun here indulging in fiction. And here’s the irony , here’s the blatant hypocrisy. I’ll bet you scroll through the Jonsa tag everyday cause you don’t have a life outside of tumblr. And I’m certain that you either write or reblog your own metas in your corner of the fandom. I mean this is ASOIAF we’re talking about here. As long as the work remains unfinished we’re all going to continue with our metas and analysing. Why don’t you go ask the same thing to the reddit community :) or the 5 hour iceberg videos on YouTube.

And P.S I’m eighteen years old. I’m obviously not working a full time 9-5 job, so I have a lot of free time on my hand 💀sorry that the existence of this account with *checks notes* 90 followers in total bothers you.

No thanks for the ask <3

[kellyvela]

I'm unable to fathom the logic of J0nrya shippers. I recently got into a twitter altercation with a couple of accounts and oh my god, I totally forgot how terrible they are ! I have all of them blocked on here but they must be on twitter as well, I even recognised some of the users. It's just awful energy all around; all of them despise Sansa, no matter what she says and does. And they are SO weirdly possessive of Jon. They claim that WE treat Jon as some trophy husband when it is actually them who are guilty of that! They even hate it when people make simple Sansa/Ned parallels because apparently Ned belongs to A as well? Never mind that Ned is also Sansa's father...smh.

Their copium is very loud and obnoxious. I wonder how they felt when GRRM straight up debunked the ship at Balticon. Calling J/A relationship by all accounts, quite simple - that the fans have given it more thought than he has etc. I would have just packed up and left after that and accepted it wasn't going to become canon. But alas, they get even louder than how they were before. Do they understand how weird they sound. They sexualise A so much and want her to become a courtesan and get her period. It's very obvious A is not going to be the love interest because GRRM has done everything in his willpower to portray A as a prepubescent child. But he has done the opposite with Sansa; He's made her tall, full-breasted, acting as a mother to a child, basically running the household in the Eyrie etc. sometimes I forget she's meant to be 13...

We all know that when someone is on the right track, GRRM will respond cryptically and give a short, sweet answer. He rambled when it came to j0nrya, that's not a good sign for the canon basis of their ship, especially when they have the nerve to call Jonsas delusional.

The truth is, I wouldn't still be here fully believing in the inevitability of Jonsa if GRRM debunked it in the same manner he did w J/A. When that Alexandragenesis person asked him about it back in 2018 and GRRM just responded with "not going to tell anymore than I already have" I knew that we were on the right track. If GRRM flat out ignored the question or responded with a simple "not the direction I'm going in" since he had no issue debunking another theory on that same chat...if I remember correctly, well I'd have left and accepted I just misinterpreted the text and saw romance where it wasn't meant to be. I'd still read fanfic about them and enjoy them in a fanon way, and I still believe all the brilliant metas hold merit, no matter if they're meant to be interpreted as romantic by the author.

But j0nrya's didn't let go of their stance and just cracked down harder on jonsas. I'm embarrassed for them. I don't care if they ship it in fanon, if they just enjoy it as a pairing and have accepted it won't become canon based on the author's blatant dismissal of any romance between them - but the way they have behaved in this fandom is really really childish and frankly, irritating. They actually dominate reddit as well, surprisingly. There's quite a few popular Redditors on there who get lots of upvotes and who are also big A/J0nrya bloggers on here. And sometimes there are posts about Queen A/J0nrya which is met with 0 criticism by the community. There's healthy discussions which receives heaps of upvotes and everything. But it's the opposite situation with queen sansa and Jonsa. Little to no upvotes and harsh criticism.

Are these people selectively blind? Is this fandom completely unable to understand subtext and implicit clues/foreshadowing? Do they get how fiction works? Do they get the different literary influences that inspired GRRM to write ASOIAF? His past works? His favourite authors? The themes of his series? The importance of omission? Unreliable narrators? Dramatic irony? Have these people never studied a text before and been made to pick apart imagery, sentences, parallels etc?

I'm just baffled by this fandom having such a surface level reading of the text. "BUT JONSA COULDN'T HAPPEN BECAUSE THEY RARELY THINK OF EACH OTHER!!" If they took the time to read our metas they'd actually realise... that works in our favour...the distance supports our theories...that's exactly what we are pointing out lmao. I'm utterly convinced that if Jon was mussing Sansa's hair and thinking of her as his little sister constantly that Jonsa would hold a lot more merit.

I mean, even just the implication that GRRM's response to Jonsa was clearly 'fan service catering' is so fucking disingenuous I have to laugh. Why would GRRM feel the need to appeal to such an incredibly niche fanbase and tell them what they want to hear when majority of the fandom wants Jon and D*ny to have sex and save the world together. And when you compare how GRRM responded to Jonsa vs how he has responded to R + L = J, it's so obvious that Jonsas are actually the ones who are making sound predictions. There's a reason a lot of us correctly predicted major beats in the show while the rest of the fandom were foaming at the mouth over Sansa being killed by one of her family members, queen d*ny, and the curtain of light theory ....

My Twitter account is locked for a reason. Somehow they always find you only to attack you.

Anyway, fave sister stans and fave sister/jon shippers are a funny bunch lmao I mean only them can write metas about fave sister being Lady of Winterfell *by proxy*, or that "official" Asoiaf fanart *confirms* that fave sister is the most beautiful human being on earth, or that fave sister and aunty wearing baby pearls means that they are the epitome of fertility and motherhood, despite them both hating those attires and quickly changing on masculine clothes 🤪 And I won't mention the training with a courtesan because that's sick 💀

I won't fight them on fave sister being jon's fave sister, that relationship can stay like that lol

I won't fight them on fave sister being Ned's fave daughter, that we can't change and there's reasons that vastly explain that.

They simply decided to ignore BALTICON, and they also do the same that cujo shippers do, they made up a narrative where GRRM knowing that they "rightly discovered" that their fave romance is *canon*, tried to mislead the readers to keep the susrprise factor when their ships happen . . . . ahxvasdhbshfbdfjsbdmjwd.alsdshadb

Did youk know that the Alexandragenesis was probably a hater from reddit trying to get GRRM debunking Jon/Sansa? Alexandragenesis is some fake disorder that gives you violet eyes born in the internet, so that name was targ coded. Also, after GRRM didn't give them the answer they were seeking they started to attack fave sister in favor of Sansa, so that person was definitely a Sansa hater/targie/fave sister stan failing as always lol

I think they read our metas and feel really dumb after that but they will never admit it, at least not in public, which reminds me of these two anon messages I got from them once:

. . . 🙈

They really said the GRRM answer to the jonsa question was fan service??? 🤡

I'm telling you, they are a funny bunch 😂

Anyway, I can't believe the curtain of light is a thing . . . . 🙃

Thanks for your message anon 💋

[sherlokiness]

Choose your death: death by being forced to hear every single J0nrya complaint about Sansa or being forced to read every single Aegony truther meta.

Why are you doing this to me?????

If I really have to, then I guess I'd pick the latter. I've seen every Aegony truth there could possibly be. This is the lesser evil imo. Jonrya complaints otoh... We will never escape the fave sister discourse even though we've emphasized we're in the fave wife one.

[fedonciadale]

Hi, so I love Jonsa but my friend convinced me that they were nothing more then a crack ship since Jon and Ary@ will be end game. Her reasons being that Jon and Ary@ have the most pov and constantly think about each other and they were the original pairing. Also since Ary@ has no other love interest except Jon. Although I would love to have Jonsa as canon, I've made my peace with them being crack-wasted potential if you as me. What are your thoughts on her argument?

Hi there!

Allow me to answer in bullet points:

First of all, your friend needs to look up the definition of crackship. Eomer and Sansa would be a crackship. Jonsa is (as things stand now) a non-canon ship.

People should stop calling the leaked proposal GRRM sent to his publisher his "original outline". This is a not a sheet of paper where GRRM made notes about his outline. This is a highly intentional source. GRRM wrote it to his publisher TO SELL HIS BOOKS. There are so many things in that few pages that definitely have been cancelled and will never happen and yet people insist that the pairing that is named in these pages will be the endgame couple. All the so-called outline proves imho opinion is that GRRM thought about a Snow-Stark romance and that he thought about Dany as an antagonist - and these might still come to pass. But I must admit that I'd rather argue with the books we have that are canon and not some proposal GRRM sent ages ago to a publisher. On this I would advice to have a look at @kellyvela's detailed posts on the outline.

If you look at the people with the most PoV chapters Tyrion and Jon would be endgame. If you look at the character who is the most connected, Sansa wins. It all depends on how you twist information like that. When it comes to screentime Aragorn should never have wed Arwen but Eowyn or Galadriel. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Jon's thoughts on Ary@ mirror Ned's on Lyanna. There can be no doubt that Jon and Ary@ have a deep bond but it is it romantic? Ned doesn't think about Cat very often but when he does it is very important. It actually bugs me quite a lot that people think that Jon and Ary@'s thoughts must be read as romantic. Not every meaningful relationship we have must be romantic. Sry, not sry. "But Ary@ is his favourite sister" is such a weak argument against Jonsa. Yes, she is and I hope Jon and her will still be close. I'm not "jealous" of their bond.

As for Ary@ having no other love interest. Well, Gendry@ shippers would beg to differ. And anyway. This is not an argument. It's not as if GRRM writes his books in the intention to have everyone safely paired away at the end. It never ceases to amaze me that Ary@ fans want Ary@ to be beautiful and in a romance so hard. I don't think this is where her arc is going. She says so herself: "That's Sansa."

O.k. Now that we have shown that none of these arguments is actually an argument that is based on the text but on outside assumptions like "loving feelings must be romantic" or "the most important characters are the ones that have the most screentime and must end up with each other" we can look at the actual evidence that is the books and the text GRRM wrote.

Where should I start? lol. There are so many hints, it is ridiculous. Jon and Sansa are carefully crafted as two puzzle pieces who will just fit perfectly once they meet. They have parallels in fairy tales, tropes, mythology, literature (including fantasy classics like LotR), and in several in-universe couples legendary and contemporary (and every time they are the better version).

Allow me to finish with this which sort of catches how the average ASOAIF fan approaches Jonsa:

Thanks for the ask!

[cappymightwrite]

Hi! I really like your opinions and my hope for jonsa has increased. I wanted to ask you what do you think about Jon pairings with Arya, ygritte and dany in contrast to jonsa? Have a nice day 😊

Thank you! I have to say @agentrouka-blog has really bolstered my belief in non tragic Jonsa. I actually think it would be truly more of a subversion, more of a twist, and more narratively satisfying to let them end the series together, in love and married. Everyone is so convinced that GRRM would never do that, the grimness of the narrative has completely eroded most people’s faith in goodness and love prevailing...and no doubt that is very intentional.

...it’s a narrative trap.

The majority of people think a “happy” ending is too easy or too expected, but obviously it isn’t because the current tone of the narrative has convinced so many people that it is impossible. And actually, finding happiness, championing goodness, especially in the world of ASOIAF is actually very hard and is not a given. In order to reach a dream of spring, not just the book, but what that title implies, GRRM has to do a lot of narrative work, it would be far easier for him to end it with, well, and then the Westerosi Ragnarök happened and these people died and this person suffered this and this downtrodden person became even more downtrodden, finally accepting the life has 99 thorns to 1 rose, etc., but isn’t that edgy, isn’t that grimness subversive and “real”? 

No it isn’t!!! It is very easy to tear things down, to deny people all that they value, to fall back onto the defeatist idealogy that “grimness” always prevails, that it is naive to believe in anything to the contrary. It is much harder to rebuild, to regenerate, to reimagine how life and love can continue despite all the pain that has gone before. THAT is a narrative challenge, that, in this day and age, is truly subversive. Frankly, GRRM is the laziest of writers if he chooses to end his narrative with a “grimdark” conclusion, with the bitter far outweighing the sweet (but I don’t think he is, or will). 

Anyway sorry, I shouldn’t talk about “grimdark”, it’s like a red flag to a bull, lol. Onto the second part of your ask...honestly, I try not to engage with these other ships, if at all possible. I believe and like what I like, and they believe and like what they like. I have an interpretation of the text, they have an interpretation of the text. I’m fairly confident that I’m on the money, that I’ve sussed out the author’s influences, his niche predelictions, but ultimately, only GRRM knows the truth. What I will say is that, when it comes down to it, in regards to those particular pairings I don’t read romantic love and marriage as being their deepest, truest heart’s desire, like I do with both Jon and Sansa. So, at their barest bones, discounting all other factors, for me, there is a quite fundamental incompatibility there. But frankly, the best way for me to sum up what I think about Jon’s other popular pairings, for the most part, is this:

[yennefersbody]

jon & arya

[alicenyras]

addi’s favourite asoiaf quotes: a game of thrones, jon iii, pg 179, and arya ii, pg 217


‘and arya…he missed her even more than robb, skinny little thing that she was, all scraped knees and tangled hair and torn clothes, so fierce and willful. arya never seemed to fit, no more than he had…yet she could always make jon smile. he would give anything to be with her now, to muss up her hair once more and watch her make a face, to hear her finish a sentence with him.’
‘that was when arya missed her brothers most. she wanted to tease bran and play with baby rickon and have robb smile at her. she wanted jon to muss up her hair and call her “little sister” and finish her sentences with her. but all of them were gone.’

[istumpysk]

J0nrya has the stupidest fanbase. Srsly afte the writer has debunked the ship himself?? He just rejected their whole Ygritte/Arya nonsense by essentially saying that romance was not what he intended. Why do we even give attention to these people bruh? 🙄🙄 Most imporatntly, if it were still to happen, we wouldn't have known about it in a discarded outline where actual spoilers were blacked out!!!???

Great point on the blacking out of actual spoilers.

If it makes you feel any better, hardly anyone gives them attention. They're a very loud minority living in the dark corners of the fandom.

[shieldofrohan]

That black pearl sth was about her learning to become a courtesan (aka a whore as you say) after having her period (...speechless...) Do these people even like A? Wishing their fav, who is mind you an 11 year old, girl to become essentially a whore just because they want her to gain 'experience' and 'change' as required by their ship. Obv they think Jon isn't gonna fall for her as she is rn depicted in her latest Mercy ch. Never mind Jon isn't falling for her even if she becomes Maiden reincarnate overnight, bcz he isn't a creepy pedo, thinks she is a child, has never remotely described her in any way that implies attraction or romantic undertones (no matter how you twist it, at most A thinks he called her pretty sometimes, like her father), doesn't even feel attraction towards girls who look like her (Alys Karstark is a good example, she flirts with him but he isn't attracted towards her bcz she looks like A). Bonus: he is also turned off by Ygritte and Val's violent tendencies, and is attracted to them only for their looks (which are like Sansa) not their "warrior" natures (which are like A and D according to their fans)....

Calling J0nrya a ship is an insult to the concept of ship, at most it is a raft, floating bcz of support of Jon/aunt fans.

Hello Anon,

Previous ask: XX

I have nothing to add actually. You are right. They really live in their own alternative fantasy asoiaf world and they got angry at us for having a better interpretation of the series.

Their expectations from A is absurd but hey it's a fictional world and I don't care about what other fans are wanting but them bullying us for being more logical is what bothers me. If you think we are crazy then block us and move on... but they just want to shut us up because they don't like what we are saying and this is some pathetic and childish behavior.

A and Jon have a very normal sibling relationship and it's cool. Jon as a good big brother wants to make her happy by calling her pretty (like Ned: her father) because she is insecure about her looks and they think this is some FS for their ship. This is kind of sad.

I don't feel weird about Jonsa because they didn't have a normal and sincere sibling relationship... and they will redefine their new bond. But with Jon and A, they already have a solid and real relationship and it seems wrong to me that they try to erase that. Even the author himself shut down the J/A's so called FSs by pointing out the comfortable sibling relationship they had.

It is interesting that Jon tries to see A in Ygritte in order to feel comfortable with her (this comparing occurs less after he had to sleep with Yg btw) and later we as the readers see some similar traits between those two girls too such as violent tendencies or thirst for revenge and we can see that how these traits were the main reason why Jon could never be content and happy with such woman.

Jon himself doesn't know what kind of person A becomes in the books but we do and if anything this hints a possible future discord (temporary probably) between brother and sister. They should worry about that maybe.

I think fans should realize the similar approach of Jon's to A and Shireen. What he feels for Shireen is more similar to his feelings to A and it is sweet. And you can read in ADWD that Jon considers the both girls: children.

His thoughts about Val have been examined by our fandom before and they are all right.

Val gets his attention because she is pretty and strong-willed (who is also pretty and was very determined for her wishes, I wonder?).

Her motherly approach to the babies was sth Jon found endearing (who is acting as a mother to a boy who still needs breastfeeding right now I wonder? -> hint: someone who sang the GENTLE MOTHER hymn) and when her sweet compassionate motherly pretty girl illusion was shattered with her claiming that a sick little girl (poor Shireen aka someone Jon has brotherly feelings) needs to die, he was immediately took a dislike towards her (and guess which pretty maid came up with a plan to surround a sick little boy with protectors? -> hint: she is a secret bastard like Jon).

Btw I also find it absurd the people think his warrior princess in the tower words were about Sansa???

First of all, Sansa rescued herself from that tower without even fighting (she did it by saving Dontos, telling the truth to Tyrells and fooling Tyrion etc - so she survived one tower thanks to her compassion and intelligence- no warrior princess is needed).

and second of all: Martin was being a huge troll because Jon's own mother who was a WARRIOR PRINCESS couldn't save herself from a tower and guess what- poor girl died!! Jon was unintentionally dissing his own mother. So it was more about author being a huge troll, if you ask me.

I don't have many thoughts about Alys but yeah it was fun to read her flirting with him and he was like I am really busy right now with organizing your wedding.

For me Alys is important because she was the fake (?) grey girl who was running away from her evil uncle and her brother HARRY is THE real HEIR. Nothing to see here folks. But obviously A is the real GG because... Jon thinks so. He must be right.

You are also very right about the support they get from that other cursed ship because they have sth in common: They hate Sansa because she blocks their wet dreams. Her power = unmatched.

Thanks for the ask.

[kellyvela]

I feel like it's sort of a double edged sword to hope that Sara Snow is a redhead, because if she is and we call it a hint, or nod, or homage to Jonsa, then don't we also have to accept that it could be a nod to J0nrya or J0nerys if she's brunette or blonde?

I think it takes more than just hair color to confirm any ship. GRRM likes to play a lot with hair colors.

Val for example, she is blonde. But one day under the moonlight her hair looks silver, so certain shippers think this is foreshadowing for their ship. But this scene is when Val says that the night smells sweet, and Jon answers that he can only smell the cold. Does this scene sound romantic to you?

On the other hand, the time when Val's hair looks like dark honey, is the time when Jon seems to be more attracted to her. Dark honey is not blonde, dark honey is not silver. Dark honey is reddish brown, dark honey is auburn.

So we have Jon seeing Val, a blue-eyed, dark honey haired girl, next to his direwolf Ghost and he thinks: They look as though they belong together. It had been a long while since Jon Snow had seen a sight so lovely. And you may wonder, what was that previous sight so lovely?

Well, the answer is two chapters later, when Jon is reviewing fond memories of his family, and he remembers a scene of another blue-eyed, auburn haired girl: Of Sansa, brushing out Lady's coat and singing to herself.

And then you realize that Jon was thinking of this lovely image of Sansa with Lady when he thought: It had been a long while since Jon Snow had seen a sight so lovely.

See? It takes more than just hair color to confirm any ship.

If Sara is indeed a red haired girl, it will be awesome, but there must be more than hair color to confirm anything.

Thanks for your message :)

[esther-dot]

Different anon but that ask about BNFs critising other t@rgs but stanning D@ny reminded me how I see most of them hating on D@ny x Drogo, R×L because D@ny, Lyanna were underage but they themselves are also some of the biggest and well known s@nsan shippers, meta writers 😂. Whenever I see their takes about RxL, D@ny x Drogo I am reminded of those J0nerys and J0nrya stans who criticize Jonsa because of incest 😅. If BNFs can recognize R×L is abusive pedoship then how can they like S@nsan? Wasn't Sansa even younger than her aunt in canon when Hound became sexually attracted to her and tried to rape her in books? With R×L, we don't even know the exact details but knowing the ages of characters, we can understand it couldn't be consensual and Lyanna was definitely a victim. So was D@ny. Then why they can't show same understanding about Sansa's situation, when we literally have her POV to clearly see Hound constantly verbally, physically and sexually abusing a 12/13 year old child, threatening to kill her multiple times. I am not denying that RxL, D@ny x Drogo are wrong, they should definitely be criticized but I hate how people who understand why it is wrong situation to romanticize, themselves look at Hound abusing Sansa with rose tinted glasses. As if it's only abuse when the underage girl is D@ny or Lyanna or anyone else except Sansa. With Sansa, they claim how Sansa herself want Hound or ship herself with him. So, it's totally valid for them to ship it too. From where they got this idea I don't know. Because currently only thing book sansa want is to go back home, wishes to see her last remaining family member. And show Sansa never gave a f about him till the very end 🤷‍♀️

(referencing this ask)

It is really weird! I’m not sure why it’s easy for them to condemn statutory rape and refuse to acknowledge assault.

We have so little to go on with Rhaegar and Lyanna, I’ve talked about my uncertainty regarding how Martin views Rhaegar, so it’s funny to claim the author is condemning him with absolute certainty while denying the author meant to do the same for the guy who intended to violently rape a child. I wrote this a while ago:

"And the little bird, your pretty sister, I stood there in my white cloak and let them beat her. I took the bloody song, she never gave it. I meant to take her too. I should have. I should have fucked her bloody and ripped her heart out before leaving her for that dwarf." A spasm of pain twisted his face. "Do you mean to make me beg, bitch? Do it! The gift of mercy . . . avenge your little Michael . . ." "Mycah." Arya stepped away from him. "You don't deserve the gift of mercy." (ASOS, Arya XIII)

This is a confession. It’s a confession of his failure to protect her, his earlier lie to Arya that she willingly sang to him, and a confession of his true intention. The fucking her bloody/ripping her heart out was likely added to get Arya to kill him, but those first two sentences, “I meant to take her too. I should have” sound genuine to me especially because his version of events matches what we read in Sansa’s chapter. I think the author always envision this as attempted rape, the fandom just finds it easy to brush off the brutalization of little girls, or rather, of this little girl because they don’t like her. (link)

Martin gives us Sansa's fear and puts the truth in the Hound's mouth. The authorial intent is undeniable.

S@ns@n shippers make a lot out of Sansa wishing the Hound were with her (ASOS, Sansa I), and her mismemory that she had kissed him (ASOS, Sansa II), but uh, she also says he threatened to kill her and if they want to ignore that they can, but to argue that the author wants us to see this as a romantic relationship with a happy ending for Sansa is unfounded, untrue, and really fucking weird. Martin revisited the assault in an Ary@ chapter to clarify that the Hound wanted to rape Sansa in case we didn’t understand on our own. If people want to romanticize that we can’t stop them, but y i k e s. And, I thought that not acknowledging the age issue/statutory rape was why they can stomach S@ns@n, so if they’re condemning Rhaegar on those grounds...idk, anon, it just makes no sense.

I'm guessing S@ns@n arose before Sansa had a robust fandom who truly valued her as her own character, valued her as she is, and also believes she has an important part to play. So, fans weren't viewing this from her perspective, emphasizing her feelings, and didn’t think twice about paying more attention to a side character than her, what he wanted. Now that many of us prioritize her, whitewashing the Hound is unthinkable and that’s an essential part of their shipping. I wrote this response to a Hound fan a while ago:

You’re right that it isn’t necessarily romantization of the Hound (or any villain) to talk about what he suffered.

Someone can be abused and also be an abuser. Cersei is both. Tyrion, the Hound…they’ve suffered and they have turned around and had their own victims. This is something Martin likes to write, and there’s no problem with understanding that and caring about villains. He wants you to. I think it’s why he makes so many of them victims first. But, I think this is something the fandom has misconstrued, even if you personally haven’t. Martin is writing histories for his characters to explain why they are who they are, believe what they do, act as they do. He isn’t saying they aren’t who they are, they don’t think what they’re saying, they haven’t done what they did.

I talk about the Hound in the context of what he did to Sansa to push back against the idea that he didn’t do what he did. (link)

The idea that people can suffer and then turn around and be responsible for the suffering of others trips up certain fans as if the Hound’s pain negates Sansa’s terror. The author wanted more interesting villains than we normally get, gave them tragedies to garner our sympathy, but that does not negate their villainy. We also have the comparison of the Hound's assault to Marillion's to clarify the author's opinion (link). Now, even if Martin didn't mean for us to take Sansa's side, I still would. I would still hate the Hound and call him a pedo, but, in this instance, I don't see how Martin could be clearer.

As for why fans would condemn Rhaegar and stan the Hound, I suppose it's just easier to find fault with a character readers only heard about (Rhaegar) than one they meet in canon. So, the Hound, Tyrion...people who molest/abuse others, they won't view them the same way because they’re emotionally attached to them. It doesn’t cost them anything to say “fuck Rhaegar” because they didn’t care about him in the first place. Why their protectiveness exists for many girls/women but not Sansa…I can’t say.

[astradrifting]

GRRM really created so many parallels and foreshadow using the DoD characters that honestly we could just figure the asoiaf ending by analyzing it. My favorite is the Aegon III-D@ny parallels, the fact that one of his closest allies was a face-scarred Master of coin Lannister who ended as Hand to Bran' parallel character just make it so obvious its funny.

Oh my god I didn’t even realise Tyland Lannister was initially on the greens’ side! I’m not super fond of Tyrion ending up as Hand, but you’re right that it’s so obviously meant to reference him. There’s so many parallels that it’s a little crazy. I don’t want to say that the second Dance will end exactly as the first did, it’d be a little too neat if history repeated entirely, but you can see so many echoes of it even in the show’s bastardised ending.

“The broken, shattered realm suffered for a while yet, but the Dance of the Dragons was done. Now what awaited the realm was the False Dawn, the Hour of the Wolf, the rule of the regents, and the Broken King.”

(TWOIAF, Aegon II)

I’m not sure what the False Dawn is going to parallel to, it refers to the period of time after Aegon II’s death but before Lord Stark got to King’s Landing, when people thought that peace had finally come. It kind of brings to mind the War for the Dawn, though personally I think that the threat of the Others will be resolved before the Dance is over. The Hour of the Wolf is obviously about House Stark’s rise back to power, and the Broken King is Bran - though if he actually becomes known as Bran the Broken I might end up committing violence ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. 

The parts about Lord Corlys Velaryon are why I’m so hopeful that Jon’s book ending will be completely different from the show’s. He’s arrested for Aegon II’s death by Cregan Stark, even though Cregan had previously declared for Rhaenyra, because as TWOIAF puts it, “to kill a cruel and unjust king in lawful battle was one thing. But foul murder, and the use of poison, was a betrayal against the very gods who had anointed him.”

Corlys didn’t deny his guilt, and expressed no regret. “What I did, I did for the good of the realm. I would do the same again. The madness had to end.”

Cregan Stark declared him to be guilty of murder, regicide, and high treason, and he was sentenced to execution. But many spoke in his defence, even people who had fought against him in the Dance. Baela and Rhaena Targaryen, Corlys’ granddaughters and Aegon III’s half-sisters, convinced Aegon to issue an edict pardoning Lord Velaryon, which Alysanne Blackwood then convinced Cregan to let stand. Lord Velaryon was pardoned and even restored to his offices and honours, made one of the king’s regents and given a place on the small council.

Corlys’ words definitely could be Jon’s as well, a much more in-character declaration post-D@ny’s death than the drivel GoT tried to feed us. I was worried for a bit that this would be how Tyrion is let off scot-free, but Baela and Rhaena, who were vital to his release, are such obvious Arya and Sansa stand-ins, and they’re certainly not going to expend any effort in helping Tyrion. So Corlys’ circumstances more likely lays the groundwork for how Jon will be freed and remain in political power, while Tyland frankly inexplicably becoming Aegon III’s Hand after he was in favour of brutally killing him parallels Tyrion managing to fail up, as a way of reconciling the old regime with the new one.

This makes Tyrion becoming Hand more palatable IMO. Either Jon and Tyrion both should have been punished or neither should have been punished, not the travesty where Tyrion gets everything he’s ever wanted while Jon is exiled to a Watch with no purpose and a Wall that’s already half-collapsed, so what exactly can it protect against? I suppose they were afraid of seemingly rewarding Jon for killing d@ny, especially if pol!Jon had been revealed, but most people noticed how nonsensical his ending was, and it just led to ‘Bloodraven/Bran is the real villain’ takes anyway.

(Side note: Asha/Yara basically still being loyal to D at the end annoys me so much, and made no sense. Jon did more to help save her by giving Theon that pep talk than D@ny did. Maybe it was a leftover from her taking Victarion’s role in the story, but in no reasonable world is anyone going to listen to the Ironborn who brought the Fire threat over in the first place.)

Of course Tyland Lannister isn’t actually Hand for long, given that he dies barely two years later from Winter Fever, feared and hated, alone except for a maester and King Aegon. It might be an indication that Tyrion will face a similar fate, that he’ll die after he’s seemingly won, exactly what he threatened Cersei with:

“A day will come when you think yourself safe and happy, and suddenly your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth, and you'll know the debt is paid."

(ACOK, Tyrion XII)

So that I can stop talking about Tyrion, here’s some facts about Rhaena and Baela that are obviously meant to reference Sansa and Arya, so much so that it feels a little bit like GRRM is winking and going “See what I did there? Huh? Huh? Did you see??”:

- their descriptions: “Rhaena was slender and graceful; Baela was lean and quick; Rhaena loved to dance; Baela lived to ride...” + “Baela was wild and willful”, “more boyish than ladylike”, and kept her hair cropped short as a boy’s

- Rhaena spent most of the Dance in the Vale, where she lived in relative comfort as the ward of Lady Jeyne Arryn. Baela was a dragonrider and so moved between Dragonstone and Driftmark, but was captured on Dragonstone when Aegon II descended upon it

- Rhaena was favoured to be queen after her brother, considered more qualified than her wild sister

- Baela liked to spend time with “unsuitable companions” she would bring to the Red Keep - including a comely juggler, a blacksmith’s apprentice whose muscles she admired (!!!), a legless beggar, a pair of twin girls from a brothel, an entire troupe of mummers once

- After her brother’s regents tried to marry her to a lord 40 years older than her, Baela escaped the Red Keep by climbing out of a window, trading clothes with a washerwoman, then walking right out of the front gate. She ran away to Driftmark and married her supposed cousin (though more likely he was her half-uncle), the legitimised bastard Alyn Velaryon, which might have had me worried about j0nrya if Alyn weren’t best known for being a daring sailor who went on many voyages, including sailing the Sunset Sea, until he was finally lost at sea during Aegon IV’s reign. Alyn’s mother was also called Mouse, for being “small, quick, and always underfoot.”

- another fun fact about Alyn: he’s a bad haggler, and had to agree to a high ransom and many concessions in order to get Prince Viserys returned to Westeros. This automatically disqualifies him as a Jon stand-in, because as we all know, Jon Snow can haggle like the best of fishwives.

- My absolutely favourite detail that has my jonsa heart singing - Rhaena was more dutiful than her sister and would have married a man that the king and council chose, saying that as long as he was “kind and gentle and noble, I know that I shall love him.” She was able to marry her first choice, whom the regents didn’t immediately approve of but that they ultimately accepted  - Ser Corwyn Corbray, the brother of the Lord Protector of the Realm, a second son (!) whose late father had gifted him the Valyrian steel sword Lady Forlorn (!!!)

And as a treat for @istumpysk, some similarities between Rickon and Viserys II!

- the youngest child of their family

- separated from their older brother after they were forced to flee their home, trying to get to safety while their other brothers and mother were at war

- worshipped their oldest (half-)brothers, but were closer to the brother nearest their age

- spends the war stuck on an island, populated by people closely linked to their family’s origins - Skagosi are descended mostly from the First Men, while Viserys was on Lys, where the blood of Old Valyria still runs strong

- sought by/held hostage by a powerful and wealthy family, who will treat them well but whose intentions are dubious

- will be brought back from exile by an upjumped bastard/commoner from a port town who was raised to lordship and became their monarch’s chief admiral

- after they are returned, long after the wars and crises, is happily welcomed as the heir to their older brother’s throne (shhhhh just let me have this, let the baby live)

Thanks for the ask!

[fedonciadale]

George has had Jon compare Ygritte and Arya five times. Jon spared Ygritte because she reminded him of Arya. George literally described Arya as Jon’s “comfort level” in regards to what he likes in women, which is plainly shown through his attraction to Ygritte. How does Ygritte and Sansa’s stories tie into each other? Their parallels? Anything?

You know, I could actually answer that if you would at least pretend that you are in anyway interested in my opinion on that. Your condescending tone doesn't really make me want to do that though.

Since I highly suspect you are the same anon that has been spouting a mixture of bs and hate into my inbox over the last few days I won't answer your question.

In case I am mistaken and you're not the same and are really interested in what my take on this is, I kindly alert you to the fact that I have talked about this several times already and you can begin by looking at my master meta post that is pinned to my blog.

Have a nice day.

[butterflies-dragons]

Just saw in the asoiaf that there’s some A/J0nrya stan convinced that the recent A anons Jonsas have had are actually Jonsas sending them to themselves because we stalk their blog, or specifically some post they made (no idea which) presumably about how Jon is totes gonna kiss bestest girl A… and basically we just want to “reassure” ourselves about our delusional theories?? I swear A/J0nrya’s live for the drama and talking crap. They should focus on their own whack theories and not bother us 🙄

LMAO

I bet they do that, because they are more obsessed with Sansa and Jonsa than with their fave and ship.

Personally, I couldn't care less about them and I must have them all blocked because I didn't see their bs recently.

If I find some anti Sansa and/or anti Jonsa posts, I immediately block the OP and the blogs that liked and reblogged those posts. As I always say, life is better that way.

[yennefersbody]

honestly i find j0nrya just as gross as j0nsa lmao like i get jon and arya have a stronger relationship but that doesn’t make it any less cringe than jon and sansa 🙃

[jeyneofpoole]

j0nrya is worse that j0nsa but j0nsa stans are worse than j0nrya stans. can we stop shipping jon with his family members plz i am disgusted!!!

i agree with this 100%