#It does feel very Disney princessy | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

the-rewatch-rewind · 1 year ago

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Another special guest episode!

Transcript below the break

Jane

Hello and welcome back to The Rewatch Rewind! My name is Jane, and this is the podcast where I count down my top 40 most frequently rewatched movies in a 20-year period. Today I’m going to be discussing number 21 on my list: Disney’s 2007 fantasy comedy Enchanted, directed by Kevin Lima, written by Bill Kelly, and starring Amy Adams, James Marsden, and Patrick Dempsey.

In the mystical, animated land of Andalasia lives a fair young maiden named Giselle (Amy Adams). She finally meets her dream prince Edward (James Marsden), and seems destined for the happily ever after she’s been wishing for, but there’s a complication: Edward’s power-hungry stepmother, Queen Narissa (Susan Sarandon), will lose her throne when he marries. Refusing to let that happen, Narissa pushes Giselle through a portal to the live-action New York City, where she runs into divorce lawyer and single father Robert (Patrick Dempsey). Robert doesn’t quite know what to make of Giselle at first, but as they become better acquainted the two very different people start to care for and learn from each other.

This episode I will be joined by my dear friend Sophie Lesher, who made the art for this podcast and is also an enthusiastic Enchanted fan, so I knew I needed to have her on to talk about it with me, and we had a very fun conversation about this movie and Disney movies in general. But first I’ll give you the breakdown of when I watched this movie, since I tend to forget to do that when I have guests. Obviously Enchanted wasn’t out yet when I started keeping track, so I know I hadn’t seen it before 2007, when I saw it once, then four times in 2008, twice in 2009, once in 2010, twice in 2011, twice in 2012, once in 2014, 2015, and 2016, and once in each year from 2019 through 2022. It is perhaps a surprisingly romantic movie for my aromantic self to have seen 19 times, but it’s so entertaining and well done that the emphasis on romance doesn’t really bother me. So without further ado, let’s talk about it!

Hi, Sophie!

Sophie

Hi, Jane!

Jane

I'm so excited to have you.

Sophie

Thank you!

Jane

Not only did you make the wonderful podcast art, but you also came up with the name for this podcast.

Sophie

That is true.

Jane

So it is wonderful to have you on The Rewatch Rewind.

Sophie

Thank you for having me. I assume that you asked me to talk about this movie in particular because I am a princess.

Jane

Yes. You are the most princessy person I know.

Sophie

It's funny because my partner, who has asked that I mentioned them in this podcast, was telling me last night when we were watching this movie that she thinks I'm the closest thing to a Disney Princess she knows which obviously she's biased, but I do have a certain kinship with Disney princesses, and Giselle is probably… Is she the first live action one?

Jane

Well, I mean, do we count Mia Thermopolis?

Sophie

Well, true, she is Disney and she is a Princess. But I don't know if she's a Disney Princess because she doesn't sing and she doesn't have a talking animal companion. Unfortunately, Fat Louie does not say anything. He gives sass. I will give him that, but he doesn't communicate verbally his feelings, but yeah, I think there has to be like a musical component to it as well.

Jane

Yeah, that's fair.

Sophie

I don't know, there's like a list of requirements. They also have to like, I guess technically she saves Genovia. Because she doesn't abdicate her throne.

Jane

Yeah, she saves… saves it from the�� the Baroness and Baron. Who just wanted to be on a postage stamp.

Sophie

The the postage stamp! Yeah!

Jane

OK. But we're here to talk about Enchanted.

Sophie

Yes.

Jane

Which came out… six years after Princess Diaries, I think?

Sophie

Mm-hmm!

Jane

So I remember that I saw Enchanted in theaters twice.

Sophie

Oh! Lovely.

Jane

And the first time I was like, this is amazing, but also kind of sad because it was like exactly the kind of thing that I would have wanted to write if I was going to write a movie. And I was like. Oh dang it, they already did this.

Sophie

Ugh, I hear you!

Jane

Because it's just such a perfect combination of, like all the things that were great about particularly the Renaissance…

Sophie

Right

Jane

…Princess movies and the like, classic Princess movies and just sort of with a modern twist, and that was… it was everything I wanted from a movie.

Sophie

It's funny because I was thinking, and I wrote this in my notes, I like that it takes what was kind of funny about movies like Shrek in the like tongue in cheek. We're like, you know, turning the classic Princess story on its head a little bit and like poking a little bit of fun, but not in a mean way. What I think- I don't particularly like Shrek, but its downfall to me is that it it gets a little mean. Like you know, you're stupid for liking these fairy tale stories, and I think Enchanted does so nicely the like making jokes, making references but also being like fairy tales are great and it's OK to believe in happy endings. And one thing that Giselle teaches the characters in the movie – Morgan doesn't really need this education because she she's already a believer. But she makes a good point of being like it's, you know, it's OK to live in reality and have hard times, but you can also believe in happy ever after and dreaming. And you know, there's things to hope for.

Jane

Yeah, yeah, very much so. I think that the thing that makes Enchanted so great is that it's like sort of making fun of the tropes and turning things on their head, but in a very loving way.

Sophie

Right.

Jane

It's very like, we love these stories, here's a way we can kind of mess with them a little bit. But still like-

Sophie

Yes.

Jane

Yeah, they're still great. So that's what makes it great. I mean, we could just end the podcast here. But anyway, so how did you get introduced to it? Because I just thought with my family the first time. I remember my uncle was there the second time I saw in theaters.

Sophie

Oh, that's nice. Yeah, if I remember correctly, this is a movie that my parents saw without me, and I'm not sure exactly how this happened because my parents are not Disney people and they're certainly not really musical people, although my dad did musicals in high school, but they saw it probably because, like Amy Adams was in it and, you know, they're fans of actors. And they were like, oh, this is great. This is something that Sophie would love. And then I was like, absolutely not. I'm never going to see it because this is something that my parents recommended to me. And people who know me know that I've talked about my parents… did not have the best track record of introducing movies to me. There were several movies they showed me that either were very much not my style or I was too young for, so I'm not sure exactly when I decided that I was gonna bite the bullet and see this movie, but I didn't see it when it first came out. But it is everything that I love. It's a musical. It's funny, it's very sweet. It's got the family element to it. So yeah, when I eventually did see it, I loved it, but I haven't seen it very many times because I came into it sort of late.

Jane

Yeah, that's fair. I I still can't believe it's… what it's 16 years old now?

Sophie

Old enough to drive.

Jane

Ridiculous.

Sophie

That's horrifying.

Jane

Yeah. Oh man. So one of the things that I absolutely love about this movie that I've noticed more and more the more times I rewatch it, is all of the Easter eggs and like little references to to Disney movies. I know that when I saw it the first time, I was with my brother, who is like the biggest Little Mermaid fan, and as soon as we see Roberts secretary, he was like, “It's Jodi Benson!” and like, he immediately recognized her. So that's fun that we get the voice of Ariel gets a pretty big part. I noticed in the credits Paige O'Hara's name. And she was the voice of Belle.

Sophie

Yeah!

Jane

And it took me so long to find her. But she's like in the, like, soap opera that they're watching.

Sophie

I think she's credited as like the soap opera vixen or something, which is very funny because I hadn't noticed her until you pointed it out to me. And then I was looking for her and I when I found her, when we watched it yesterday, the line that she has is like, “How could I ever love someone who doesn't love themself?” And I thought that was so funny because that's very much Bella's arc in Beauty and the Beast.

Jane

Yeah, exactly.

Sophie

And then you just get like a close up on the actors face and he's like, you know, look into camera like on the Office. That was very funny.

Jane

It was great and also like if you listen to the background music, it's very like it sounds like the Beauty and the Beast music right there, and I think it's great cause, of course, Alan Menken did the music in this movie, and that's perfect because he did so many of the best…

Sophie

He’s fantastic.

Jane

…the best musical Disney films, and so that's great, yeah. And then there's also just like other really quick things, like when Edward is watching the news and he finds out where they are, like the reporter says the address of the building. She says her name is Mary Ilene Casalotti, which is like a combination of Mary Costa, Ilene Woods and Adriana Caselotti.

Sophie

Oh, that's lovely.

Jane

The like voices of the original princesses. It’s just, very quick, fun little thing.

Sophie

Yeah. Well, and of course, where he goes to look for her is at Bella Notte restaurant, which is where they were.

Jane

Right.

Sophie

So yeah, I've I've written some of them down, like in Happy Little Working Song, when Giselle is on the floor scrubbing, there's little bubbles, which is a very iconic scene in Cinderella. There's lots of Snow White references with the apple. And Narissa obviously has a dragon form, which is like Maleficent in Sleeping Beauty. The ball ends at midnight and she has to eat the apple before midnight, which is Cinderella. The opening, of course, has the the beautiful like story book animation where the story opens, which is very iconic like early Disney.

Jane

Yes! And the narrator of the beginning and the end...

Sophie

Of course is our Queen Julie Andrews.

Jane

Julie Andrews. This does count as one of the four movies that made it to the list that she's in. She's just barely in it, but…

Sophie

Oh perfect.

Jane

But yeah, I love that.

Sophie

There are a couple of Sound of Music references. There's a lot of Julie Andrews references because there's a Sound of Music reference, obviously, when Giselle makes the dress out of the curtains. There's also when they get to Central Park before the big song, How Does She Know? She spins around in the middle of Central Park and she has her arms stretched out wide, which is obviously the opening of Sound of Music. And then the woman with the bird seed is charging to feed the birds, which is a Mary Poppins reference. So there are a couple little Julie Andrews Easter eggs in there, which is very fun.

Jane

Yeah, big part of the reason why I love this movie. It's really it was really made for me specifically is what it felt like.

Sophie

Correct. Yes, they should have just said in the opening credits: for Jane. This is for you.

Jane

Yeah, that's really what it felt like.

Sophie

Yeah, it's great.

Jane

And then Amy Adams is, like the perfect…

Sophie

Yeah

Jane

…Disney Princess and she she's so versatile, like everything I've seen her in, she's amazing, and she's played characters that are completely different from this, but I think this might have been like one of the first things that I actually saw her in.

Sophie

Mm-hmm.

Jane

But it was just like, she is a Disney Princess in this, like, she perfectly personifies that and I I love that so much.

Sophie

And not like she's- Giselle, is very exaggerated, obviously, because, you know, they're trying to harken back to the early, like, very emotive princesses. But it's never- like even though she's super expressive and very naive, it's never like…grotesque or like, foolish looking like she's very believable, as you said in this role. Yeah, it's really impeccable casting.

Jane

Yeah, again because it's like it's definitely got some parody elements to it, but it's like it's still saying, these princesses are real people. And I think that it's interesting that like because obviously it's making fun of the whole idea of, like, you meet and you get married immediately, but that doesn't actually happen in any of the Disney Princess movies. Like, nobody immediately gets married right after they meet.

Sophie

Right.

Jane

And I think that a lot of times, especially like with Cinderella, Cinderella has like such an unfair reputation of like, it's like, oh, yeah, she just does chores and waits around for a man. But if you actually watch the Disney Cinderella like she has so much agency and she's like very strong in like breaking away from her… situation and like her horrible, abusive stepmother and and I feel like with this movie it's kind of doing that. It's like saying, like, Disney princesses are stronger and cooler than you think they are, and like Giselle is really cool, but it's like they've been like that the whole time. And this is just taking it to the next level.

Sophie

Well, yeah, and I just saw an interview clip with Ilene Woods the other day, who was, as you know, the voice of Cinderella, who was talking about that. And she was just like, if you look at the movie, Cinderella has never, she never says, “Oh, and I want to find a Prince. And you know I'm going to the ball with this express purpose.” She has no interest in the Prince. She just wants to go to a party. She wants to get out of her disgusting situation for a little bit and have you know a space to relax. And she's been dreaming about not finding a Prince, but going to the castle. She wants to travel. She wants to be away from her oppressive situation, and it's just happenstance that she finds this man and decides, you know, this is someone that I want to explore a partnership with.

Jane

Yeah so I think that this movie is sort of an answer to the people who criticize Princess movies. And I mean it is explicitly saying like we are turning this on its head like especially when when she's fighting the dragon at the end. That's like, this is a twist. Like usually it's the Prince who does this.

Sophie

Right.

Jane

But I think Disney princesses were always strong. And so I think that this was such a good way of showing that.

Sophie

Yeah.

Jane

Oh, also going back to the references, I do think it's amazing that Idina Menzel is in this movie and so like it's sort of a retroactive… like, she hadn't been in Frozen yet.

Sophie

Right.

Jane

But like now, Elsa is in this movie too, which is so cool.

Sophie

Although I will say it is heart wrenching that they had Belle, Ariel and Elsa in this movie and not a single one of them got a chance to sing.

Jane

Yeah!

Sophie

And then I mean, I know we're not talking about Disenchanted, but the song that they gave Idina to sing and Disenchanted was… weak.

Jane

Yeah, it's not the best song in that movie. But I did… I feel like there was an interview with Idina Menzel where she said that she was happy that she got to…

Sophie

Just straight act?

Jane

…just be in this movie and not sing because she was like, “I knew I wasn't just cast for my voice. It's like I was cast for acting too, which is cool.” She's very fun to watch in this movie.

Sophie

Oh, absolutely! If we can… if we can take a moment to talk about Nancy, I feel like watching this movie when you're a kid is very different. One thing I think this movie does not do particularly well is have, you know, female friendships and… and not pit people against each other because while Giselle tries to steer away from it, I do think there is an element of jealousy between Nancy and Giselle for obvious reasons. But I- it's you know, that's not my favorite thing and I wish there could have been a way to have them, you know, have this…conflict over this, you know, love square situation without it turning into, like Nancy feels threatened by Giselle. But I think growing up is realizing that Nancy was never the villain in this movie. And I I love her character. I love everything about her from. The first line she has when she shows up at Roberts apartment, she's like, “Hey, girlfriend!” Like,

Jane

“Ready to kick it?”

Sophie

I love it!

Jane

So funny! Yes!

Sophie

I love her so much!

Jane

Well, and I think that like one thing is like, yeah, she feels threatened by her initially, which is fair because she walks in when-

Sophie

Right.

Jane

…she's, like, naked…

Sophie

Correct.

Jane

…on her boyfriend.

Sophie

And she's like, “Who the hell is this?”

Jane

But I- one thing that I really love is that, at the climax, when Giselle is unconscious and Edward is trying to kiss her and it doesn't work, that he's like, “Ohh, it must be you!” and Robert’s really hesitant, and that Nancy goes, “Kiss her, it’s okay.”

Sophie

Mm-hmm.

Jane

And I love that so much. Like she recognizes, like, OK, clearly you guys have something like, I'm going to be fine with it rather than fighting, and I love that!

Sophie

Right.

Jane

And I I love that at the end she's just kind of like, “Oh, she left her shoe,” and then gets that great moment with Edward and, and that she gets a happy ending too.

Sophie

Yeah and she gets to be spontaneous for once, cause you sort of get the feeling that Nancy has, like, been this strong sacrifice you know, “I'll do whatever you want in order to make other people happy” kind of person? Like, she, you know, she's never really fought with Robert about like, “why am I not being like, more integrated into yours in Morgan's life?” And now she gets to, like, run away to Andalasia, and just, like, leave all of her responsibilities behind and have this fun adventure, which seems to have worked out for her because ten years later they're still together, so...

Jane

Yeah! Well, and Robert is very wary of anything romantic because he was so heartbroken when his first wife left him.

Sophie

Right.

Jane

And so like he… he… when he's talking to Jodi Benson, he's like, “I want to be very practical. Like we don't need all of that stuff,” and it kind of seems like Nancy does want that, but she also like respects that he's not into it and and is like, that's OK. But she gets really excited when she gets the doves and is like, “Oh, it's so roman’ic!” I love that she says “roman’ic.”

Sophie

I know I love, I love Idina, like bringing her whole, like Long Island upbringing into this character. It’s very fun.

Jane

Yeah, it's weird that I love it so much because it's so romantic, and I'm not like that into romances usually.

Sophie

Right.

Jane

But, I don’t know, I think that the way that this is done is so interesting that like everybody thinks they're on a certain path and then…

Sophie

Right.

Jane

…they're like, oh, actually, the way I thought this was going to go is not how it's going.

Sophie

Well, yeah, and it's all about, you know, making sure that it's the right person for you and making sure that there's not only comfort because I think Robert does have to get uncomfortable in order to be with Giselle. But there's there's more of a cohesiveness. He's not, like forcing Nancy to give up part of her personality in order to be together. They're just like compatible. So I do think that that doesn't necessarily have to be about romance. It's about being with the people that make you feel the most like yourself, which could be, you know, a message for all relationships, not just romantic ones.

Jane

Yeah. Well, and I, it almost feels like Robert was suppressing part of himself.

Sophie

As well, yeah.

Jane

Yeah. So I think that Giselle helps him let go of that and be the true version of himself.

Sophie

You get the sense like he mentions… because Morgan is what 6 or 7?

Jane

Yeah, I think she says she's 6.

Sophie

And he mentions that he and Nancy had been together for five years, so he'd only, like, been apart from his wife for like, a year at this point and had a baby. So from Morgan's, you know, infancy to her first birthday was the only time that he was ever without a partner. So I think there is an element of his relationship with Nancy where he was just like, emotionally healing, and now he's mostly healed or, you know, on his way to recovery. And he is able to be his full self with Giselle, which is sort of sad, you know, in terms of like Nancy not getting his full personality. But I do think it worked out for the best.

Jane

Yeah, and it's it's almost like… she was OK with being there for him and when he needed somebody but recognizes by the end of the movie that she wasn't getting what she needed out of that relationship and…

Sophie

Right.

Jane

…that being spontaneous with Edward would be better for her.

Sophie

Right.

Jane

And like you say, apparently worked out because they're still together in the sequel.

Sophie

Yeah. Which is good. I hope they're happy.

Jane

Yeah! Definitely! I and I love that, that everyone gets to be happy… except for the villain.

Sophie

Right.

Jane

But even the villain sidekick gets sort of a little bit of a redemption.

Sophie

Yeah, Nathaniel is a published author at the end of the movie. That's very fun.

Jane

Yeah!

Sophie

Although in fairness, it's, you know, it's not Nathaniel, it's Peter Pettigrew in my head. And it's not, it's not Prince Edward, it's Corny Collins. Although you know James, James is great in whatever role he does.

Jane

James Marsden was the perfect Edward for this.

Sophie

Yes.

Jane

When was Hairspray?

Sophie

Hairspray was the same year.

Jane

Okay, yeah, because I feel like I definitely saw this first.

Sophie

So yeah, I saw Hairspray in theaters, so…

Jane

Ohh.

Sophie

I think I like went with some of my camp friends cause we had been listening to the Hairspray soundtrack all summer, and then when it finally came out, we like, went to see the movie together. But yeah, James Marsdenn is fantastic and I I will say, as a lesbian, he's very dreamy.

[Jane laughs]

Sophie

He is, as you said, perfect casting.

Jane

Yeah, he just he looks like a Disney Prince. Like, he's perfect for that. And I also like a lot of the classic Disney princes, like, didn't even get a name, so he's more developed than most of them…

Sophie

Yeah.

Jane

…as a character.

Sophie

And he has a full nose, unlike the Prince in Snow White, who just has nostrils.

Jane

Yeah, that Prince doesn't have a name. The Prince in Cinderella doesn't have a name.

Sophie

I know.

Jane

We do get Prince Philip in Sleeping Beauty. He gets and he gets to fight a dragon. So he's good. The Beast doesn't have a name…

Sophie

Yeah. We just have Phillip, Eric, and I guess technically Aladdin.

Jane

Yeah, but he's like the protagonist. So like, that's a little bit different.

Sophie

Right. Aladdin and Flynn are royal by marriage, not by blood.

Jane

Yeah, well, and I've heard arguments that in Aladdin, it's kind of gender swapped and that Jasmine serves the function of a Prince.

Sophie

Of the Disney Prince, yeah.

Jane

Yeah, so…

Sophie

But she's not a prize to be won.

Jane

She's not a prize to be won. But, anyway, so yeah, so I think that they did a great job with the Princess. Great job with the Prince. Great job with making them not end up together and that that made sense.

Sophie

Well and like… it's funny, I thought of you when I listened to the first song, because the line in I've Been Dreaming of a True Love’s Kiss is, “For lips are the only things that touch.” That's that's very ace-coded. That's like, “No, we're not going to do anything else.”

Jane

[laughs] Yeah.

Sophie

“You can kiss me, but no tongue. And we're not gonna do anything else.”

Jane

[still laughing] That's a good point. Ohh yeah, that's funny. Yeah, well, and there's a little bit of that, like throughout the movie of like, after Nancy finds them together, and Robert’s, like, “She thinks that you and I?” and Giselle’s like, “Kissed?!?!?! [gasp]” And he's like, “Uh… yeah, definitely… that.” And then there's the part when they're shopping, and Morgan says, “You know how boys are: they're only after one thing,” and she says, “What?” She says, “Oh, I don't know,”

Both

“No one will tell me.”

Sophie

Well, good! No one should have told you the first thing, six year old!

Jane

Yeah!

Sophie

What is- Who is talking to you? Like, who is her babysitter? Because they need to be replaced.

Jane

Also, that is… that is a very weird scene.

Sophie

Yes.

Jane

When Giselle comes in and Morgan's by herself in the apartment.

Sophie

Like, how did Giselle get in? Why is Morgan alone? How does she know where the AmEx is in the drawer? ‘Cause that's not something you tell the six year old because they don't have impulse control.

Jane

And where all the good stores are.

Sophie

Yeah, and the weird like product placement with the Elie Tahari, why is this the store we're going to? Yeah, they went to too many stores. That whole thing was very weird. And then, like, did she not get the memo that it was a costume ball?

Jane

Right!

Sophie

She's the only person in there who’s not dressed like a Renaissance fair person.

Jane

And I'm like, is that because she thinks those clothes are normal and so, like, the clothes she's wearing are like…?

Sophie

Right. Like, her dress-up clothes, yeah.

Jane

Yeah, that's the only thing that I can think of because I'm like, that dress is completely inappropriate for that ball.

Sophie

Yeah, from when Giselle and Roberts say goodbye to Narissa turning into a dragon is a very draggy… Like, I I love Giselle and Morgan shopping together. I think that's very cute. The dialogue is weird. And then there's like that weird song that is also out of place at a Kings and Queens Ball.

Jane

They say it's a waltz and it's not in 3-4 time and it's very weird. Like, I mean, I like that song by itself.

Sophie

Yes, but it does not fit in the scene at all.

Jane

Yeah, I don't really understand what they were doing there. Well, and based on the bloopers - because I have the DVD, I've watched the bloopers many times - it seems like Robert and Nancy were supposed to have some dialogue while they were dancing that ended up getting cut because you see them like doing that and messing it up. So I feel like they just couldn't understand how they were going to get through that transition.

Sophie

Yeah and like I get that they had to have some sort of weird convention for Giselle and Robert to dance together. But like, how is this the pinnacle of your dance? It's not a waltz. It's a weird song, and then you're having strangers dance together? Because ostensibly, you didn't, like, come as a group.

Jane

Yeah!

Sophie

So you just have to ask a random person to dance with you for like the Kings and Queens Waltz. That’s very weird.

Jane

Yes, but and it's also like. The song is about how we're so close to reaching our happy ending, but not, and so it's like, are you supposed to be dancing it with the person that you really want to be with but aren't like it's it's very uncomfortable…

Sophie

This is only for people in a love triangle or love square, and you can only come with the person that you don't want to actually be with. But you're keeping it a secret.

Jane

Yeah, so then you're dancing this dance with someone that you're secretly - or not so secretly cause now everybody knows - in love with so, like, everybody goes home from that ball fighting.

Sophie

Everyone's like, OK, divorced. I mean, it's a great place for Robert to show up because he's a divorce lawyer.

Jane

Oh yeah, there you go. Yeah, that's that's really why he wanted to be there. He found out what it was for, and he was like, this is where I'm getting all my clients now.

Sophie

Yeah exactly.

Jane

I think a lot about the couple that was like getting divorced at the beginning and then, like, Giselle talked to them and they were all together and like, do, do they have a long term relationship or do they like does that last for like a few days and then they go back to fighting?

Sophie

Yeah, that would be good to know. I hope they made it work. Phoebe and Ethan. There's some weird like… like I get that Giselle's naive I get that she was, you know, raised by forest creatures. But there are some, like, very uncomfortable racial and other minority group moments.

Jane

When she grabs her hair, yeah.

Sophie

She's like “Ohh so beautiful!” Like, no, don't do that.

Jane

I kind of feel like because it's Giselle, like she would have done that to anyone.

Sophie

Yeah, it's just it's not in the best taste.

Jane

Yeah, I agree.

Sophie

And then there's the scene at the beginning where the person walks underneath her dress.

Jane

Yeah.

Sophie

And she's like, “Oh, Grumpy!” and it's like, did we need to do that? Was that necessary?

Jane

Yeah, it's a little�� it's a little, uh… uncomfortable and like I get, I get the point they were trying to make, like that she's just naive and doesn't understand the real world.

Sophie

But like there could have been something else where she was like, oh, this is, you know, fairy tales… like she could have been like talking to a mirror and it like not responding and everyone was like, what is wrong with this girl?

Jane

Well, I mean like the knocking on the castle billboard thing kind of does that.

Sophie

Yes!

Jane

Like, that's funny.

Sophie

Yeah.

Jane

That… that works.

Sophie

Although I have never seen a seedy casino in New York City, I don't know if they were confused as to where they were. If they thought they were in Vegas, but they're actually in New York. But yeah, that was very cute.

Jane

Oh, maybe they were just advertising very far away or something. But yeah. Yeah, no, I think that part's funny. I also- it's so interesting how the animals still respond to her song in the real world. Like, why is that? Like nothing else works the way she thinks it will, but...

Sophie

Yeah, one thing that my partner pointed out when we were watching it is how does Narissa still have her magic? And also, where does she go? Like, well, first of all, she catches fire spontaneously. She spontaneously combusts when she falls off the tower. I'm not exactly sure how that happens, and then she just disappears. Does she also fall into the sewer grate? And if so, then she's still there when Edward and Nancy go back.

Jane

Ohh yeah…

Sophie

But she just like disappears. She falls into the ground and then Boof into sparkles so I don't… I don't know what happens to her.

Jane

Yeah, I don't either. I I don't really understand how she's able to again still have her powers, but maybe because like she controls the portal between the worlds?

Sophie

Maybe. Andalasia is a very interesting land because they just have a portal in the middle of the castle courtyard, and then they also have, like wands that grant your innermost desires just lying around.

Jane

The wands can pull magic through the portal somehow. And yeah, the sequel is confusing. It's like in this one they don't explain some things, but to a certain extent, you can just suspend disbelief. Be like, OK, because magic, like whatever. It doesn't matter how this world works. And then in the sequel, they're like trying to get into how the world works, and it just doesn't really make a lot of sense.

Sophie

No, they don't have time for that, which is fine. I like the sequel.

Jane

Oh yeah, me too.

Sophie

It's just they weren't really sure what track they wanted to go down. I did like and I noticed this on this rewatch. And Nancy, I guess is like a designer or seamstress or something, cause when she gets the dove flowers, she's like at her studio or whatever. And then I guess Giselle takes that over and turns that into Andalasia Fashions or whatever it's called at the end of the movie. So that was that was nice. That was a little bit of tying up of loose ends, which I thought was lovely.

Jane

Yeah, they really do take over each other's lives very well. Because like Nancy goes to marry Edward and do exactly what Giselle was going to do.

Sophie

Right.

Jane

And Giselle takes over her business, I guess. But and it also makes sense because she clearly knows how to sew because she can make dresses out of curtains in like, no time.

Sophie

Right. Yeah. Giselle's wardrobe is pretty incredible. Unfortunately, we don't… The the blue dress that she makes out of the curtains is gorgeous, but she also has the like… it's the dress that she's wearing I guess the day that they say goodbye. So she wears it on her date with Edward.

Jane

Mm-hmm.

Sophie

Which, by the way, he's wearing like $100 worth of New York branded merchandise. I don't know where he got the money for all of that.

Jane

Well, that's what I was thinking the whole time that that Edward and Nathaniel are there is like they're like eating out and like, they're staying at a motel like, I mean, I know they're not going to like, super fancy expensive things, but how do they have any money at all?

Sophie

Still, I mean Chinese takeout in New York is like 80 bucks.

Jane

Yeah so like they did they like because I'm sure he had things that were extravagant on him. Did he just like trade them in and be like here, take this shiny thing? Like I don't... I don't know. They don't explain that at all.

Sophie

Although we do, we do see Nathaniel doing some odd jobs, like he's somehow in the kitchen at Katz's deli when they have the confrontation with Pip?

Jane

Oh yeah.

Sophie

Because that's where they are, which is one of my favorite places in New York. That was really fun. So he's like working in the deli and then he becomes a cab driver somehow…

Jane

And he's like selling caramel apples.

Sophie

…when he also does brown face… Yeah, well, yeah, he's he's at the he's at the popcorn vendor when he tries to poison Giselle with the caramel apple. Yes, and then he's working at the Italian restaurant. So he's, you know, he's he's a Jack of all trades. He's getting that bread.

Jane

Do they pay him after just like a few hours of work? It's like, “Thank you! Here's some money!”

Sophie

Maybe he, like, pretends to be an immigrant and they pay him under the table in cash or something, I don't know.

Jane

Ohh.

Sophie

But yes, it's better if you don't think about it too much.

Jane

Which I guess is true of most Disney movies, like a lot of them if you really analyze it’s like wait, this doesn't make any sense, but like, it’s fine, it's fine.

Sophie

Yeah.

Jane

If you’re just focusing on the main story, I feel like it works really well things. Things tie together nicely.

Sophie

Yeah. Let me see if there's something else… In Happy Working Song, she rhymes “la-da-dum” with va-cu-um.”

Jane

Oh, I love that.

Sophie

Which is a great rhyme.

Jane

Yeah that song is amazing.

Sophie

That's very underrated. I feel like the first song and How Does She Know get all of the play, but Happy Working Song is really fun. I think that's one of the ones that's got the most like inside jokes and references to other things.

Jane

Yeah, because there's so many, especially Princess movies but also like Mary Poppins, where they just like, clean really quickly…

Sophie

Right.

Jane

And like, so it's sort of like, yeah, Disney princesses have this power of just being able to clean an entire house in the time it takes to sing one musical number.

Sophie

Correct As much as I feel like there's really no point to having Narissa in this movie – like, I think we can agree that the real villain of this movie is capitalist society - the elements of having Narissa is very funny, like she's sort of like a discount Yzma because at Katz’s when she like appears in the pot of soup, she's like, “I'm boiling in here,” which is a hilarious line. I love that.

Jane

Yeah.

Sophie

And then I'm not sure if this is true, but King Kong feels like the only movie that they referenced that's like, not a Disney property, cause Narissa does kind of King Kong on the…

Jane

Oh yeah.

Sophie

…whatever building when she's a dragon, but the other Easter eggs that I caught were all like Disney.

Jane

Yeah, although I don't know that Disney owned Sound of Music at the time that this movie was made, I don't think they'd acquired Fox yet.

Sophie

Oh, OK. Well, that makes a little more sense. I want to know, going back unfortunately to the don't think about it too hard. I don't know why Narissa cares if Edward and Giselle aren't together anymore. Because by the time she goes dragon, they've already decided not to be together and like her whole point was like, “I can't let Edward be married because then he's going to take over the throne.” I don't know why she's still pissed.

Jane

I think that like she's mad because everybody's happy for Giselle and she's like…

Sophie

Ohhkay.

Jane

She's like, “No, I want to be the center of attention!”

Sophie

OK, well, that's fair.

Jane

“This did not go how I planned. I’m mad. You should be scared of me because I still have power.”

Sophie

Okay, I’ll take it.

Jane

Also, doesn't Edward say that he's gonna dethrone her and exile her?

Sophie

Oh, because she because she tried to kill Giselle, maybe.

Jane

Yeah I think that he does say that. I think that that's why. Her objective has changed, clearly. And now she just wants to kill everyone.

Sophie

Now she's just mad. Yeah OK, well, that's, you know, that's reasonable. I'll take that.

Jane

I also love how punny she is when she's a dragon. There's so many, just like she keeps going and it's just like love it, love it so much. Love those punny villains there.

Sophie

They’re so much better when they're funny. You know they're not just angry. Yeah, I do, I do love that this movie allows Giselle to be… like, you know, I said her touching the black woman's hair made me feel uncomfortable. But she is very like body positive because she when she sees the statue in the lobby of Robert’s building the like, you know, it's like a big statue of a naked fat woman and she's like, “Oh, she's so” like she has to stop and look at it and be like, “She's so beautiful,” which is like, that's so nice! Like she's, you know, she's very inclusive of of everybody when she sees beauty and things.

Jane

Yeah! Well, and she wants to talk to the like old homeless man.

Sophie

And he like smiles without teeth. And she's like, “Oh, your smile is lovely!”

Jane

Yeah!

Sophie

She really does see beauty in in all things.

Jane

Yeah, and I think that that's something that that is sort of underrated about those types of characters of like they are very naive and don't don't look into things, but it's like it's so great to be able to see beauty in everything, and the things that other people dismiss or don't want to look at, and being like, “But-

Sophie

Yeah.

Jane

“These are people. These are other beautiful things.” Yeah, I really love her attitude. Just about life and she's just seems like she's so happy.

Sophie

Yeah.

Jane

She can turn situations around that don't seem like they're going very well, and like she's she is surprised when the like rodents show up to help her clean, instead of her normal friends. She's just like, OK. Cool.

Sophie

Yeah.

Jane

These new friends!

Sophie

Yeah.

Jane

Like she sees beauty in the cockroaches, rats and stuff.

Sophie

Mm-hmm, yeah.

Jane

And the line about “So friends, even though you're vermin.”

Sophie

Right.

Jane

OK.

Sophie

Yeah, and it's, you know, I think she's a really positive person, but not like a toxic positivity?

Jane

Mm-hmm.

Sophie

She'll still listen to your problems, and she'll still, you know, try to make you feel better if you're sad. Like I love her relationship with Morgan. Because, I mean, you know, I'm also a non-biological parent to a six year old girl, so that's like particularly moving to me at the moment, but she's someone who's very lonely and looking for, like, companionship and someone who understands. Because I think as we said earlier, with Robert, like dealing with his grief, he doesn't have the capacity really to deal with anybody else's emotions. So Giselle is a really nice person to have in her life to, you know, not just try to paper over the pain, but sit with her and actually try to make her feel better and remind her that, you know, there are good things as well as bad things in life.

Jane

Yeah, well, and I think, like, Robert even says, “We don't talk about it. Like, we don't talk about her mom.” And it seems like Morgan really wants to. And like Giselle, is willing to talk to her about it, which is really nice.

Sophie

Yeah, like asking her, “Do you miss her?” And “I'm here for you if you want to talk about it.”

Jane

Yeah.

Sophie

Which is, I think really important.

Jane

Yeah, it is good that she's not just like, “Everybody should be happy all the time.” It's like, we should address these things that people need to talk about and don't just push down the sad emotions. That's a good point.

Sophie

Yeah.

Jane

She's a great character.

Sophie

Yeah.

Jane

I love what they do with her in the sequel too. I think that that's such an interesting thing to have her like, slowly becoming evil, but trying really hard not to.

Sophie

Yes, like she's aware of it and she's like, “No, I don't wanna do this!”

Jane

Yeah.

Sophie

Yeah, I love that. One thing, cause I relate a lot to Giselle, I love the scene where she and Robert are having their like first real fight. And she's like, “You're making me so…” And she, like, can't name the emotion. And then she realizes what it is, and she's, like, “Angry!” And she's so excited about it. The first part is very me, like, not being able to admit it, but I would not be excited about being angry. But she, it's like it's this new, exciting thing for her, which is really fun.

Jane

Yeah, well, because earlier we've established like, because he says he's angry and she's like, “Angry???” He's like, “Have you heard of it?”

Sophie

“I don't know what that is!”

Jane

She's like, “I've heard of it…” like, she's never been angry before, and so then she's like, “Wow, this is this is interesting! Now I’m angry!”

Sophie

Yeah.

Jane

And then she, like, punches him or something. “I’m ANGRY!” He's like, “Are you OK?”

Sophie

[laughs] Yeah

Jane

[laughs] Oh man. Yeah, there's a lot of really great moments in this movie. That's How You Know is like one of my all time favorite musical numbers in a movie. And I a lot of times when I watch this movie I go back and rewatch that scene a few more times because it's so good.

Sophie

It's a truly perfect scene. I have no notes.

Jane

It’s amazing. It's like just so great how all these different groups of people come together and do this amazing dance number.

Sophie

Well, yeah, it's it starts and he's like, please, please do not sing in public. Please do not sing to me in public. And then the guys on the steel drums and they're like they know this song too?! Like, where did you guys? And he's like there's more like how how did you all learn this song, which is very funny. And then it he just, like I there's nothing I can do. It's gonna be a musical number. And then just it goes on and on, and there are so many fun little… like, like the old people. We love to see actors over 40 getting work.

Jane

Yes! Again from special features on the DVD, they talk about how especially the old guys that like have the flowers?

Sophie

Mm-mm.

Jane

Some of them were chimney sweeps in Mary Poppins, and like in the West Side Story movie and like they were, like, iconic dancers in their time.

Sophie

Oh, that's so fun!

Jane

So it's fun to like, get to have them show up in this movie too.

Sophie

Mm-hmm! Yeah, and then you have the brides. And you have the people in the canoe.

Jane

Yeah, there's like, a mariachi band.

Sophie

Oh yes, the mariachi band.

Jane

And that all the like workers that are like flipping around and…

Sophie

Yes, the blue jumpsuit guys.

Jane

Yeah, in one of the interviews on the DVD, Amy Adams is like, “That is the most scared I've ever been on a set was people flipping right in front of my face and I just had to stand there smiling.”

Sophie

Oh no.

Jane

But yeah, there's a great special feature on the DVD of like how that number came together and just showing all these different groups of people rehearsing.

Sophie

That's so cool. What I want to know is what day of the week is this? Because because Morgan went to school, so, like, it's got to be a weekday. So what are all these people doing in the middle of the work day in Central Park? Um, I do, I love the German festival. I love like the Maypoles and stuff.

Jane

Oh yeah.

Sophie

And then one thing I thought was funny is Rapunzel wasn't a Disney movie yet, but I think it would be… well, Princess and the Frog came next, but I wonder if they were, like, working on Rapunzel at the time, and that's why they had the girl in the park do Rapunzel?

Jane

Yeah! Oh, yeah. That's that's a good point. I also love that moment when when Robert, just like smiles and puts his hands out really sarcastically. Like, “Fine, I'll participate in this!”

Sophie

Yeah, that's a really fun number.

Jane

Yeah, just it just keeps getting better. And then like, right at the end, Robert’s actually getting into it and then he catches himself. He's like, wait, what?

Sophie

It's like, no, this is not no. I'm not supposed to do that.

Jane

And I think it's… it's just, it's such a great way of imagining, like how you could do a musical number in the real world, cause in Giselle's world in Andalasia, people just burst into song and there's magically music and it just happens.

Sophie

Well, and everybody knows the song which is… you know, that's how they show that Giselle is like becoming more comfortable in reality is when Edward is like singing to her. And he's like, “…and now you…”

Jane

And it's weird because she it's not like it was a conscious choice for her to not be singing because she seems really surprised. He's like, “You're not singing.” And she's like, “Oh, I, I’m not!” Like I think that that's really interesting that like showing that originally it was just so natural to her that she couldn't help herself. And now she's sort of like, oh, “I guess I would normally be singing now and I'm not.” And yeah, it's it's a great way of showing that and that Edward, even though he spends quite a bit of time in the real world too, he never gets to that point.

Sophie

Right.

He's never at all considering, like, changing. He's like, “We're going back to Andalasia. That that's where I belong.”

Sophie

Right. And it's also, it's the perfect line because he's like “you were made…” the line is “you were made to finish my duet” and she's like “but I'm… but that's not that's not me” like, “you need to find somebody else” and then they go on their date that she's, like, trying desperately to extend so they don't have to leave. And she's like, realizing like, this is not… it doesn't feel right…

Jane

Yeah.

Sophie

…anymore.

Jane

Yeah, it's so interesting how then, like, Narissa picks up on that and tells her that the apple will make her forget. It's not like, oh, this apple will make all your wishes come true or like whatever, it’s just like, it will make you forget that you ever met Robert. It will make you happy to go back with Edward, and that's what she wants at that moment because she's like, I have to go back.

Sophie

Because otherwise I'm going to be sad here. Yeah.

Jane

Yeah, it's it's, it's good, it's good! The writing is good! The acting is perfect! It's just it's a… it's a good movie!

Sophie

It's great.

Jane

I also really enjoy… I I think some of the Pip stuff gets a little bit… tedious and like I don't love it, but I do think it's very funny how he keeps trying to get Edward to understand him, and he doesn't understand him until the end when he speaks in rhyme.

Sophie

Mm-hmm.

Jane

Because like the whole time Edward is trying to interpret it into a rhyme, and then like at the end he says a rhyme and he's like, “Oh, of course, I get it. Why didn't you say that in the first place?” And it's just so funny. I don’t- It's like there's no reason why that should be, but it's very funny.

Sophie

I love Pip. I think in Andalasia, Pip, like, talking in a New York accent is how I imagine all animals inner monologues, are just like, very gruff. Like, “Hey, I'm trying to be walked here!” But also, they're just so many, like, little like, if you're not paying attention or if you're not, like, focusing on what it is, it's not as funny, but, like… Nathaniel crucifies Pip? On a… on a pants hanger? And then puts the do not disturb sign around his neck, like that's… and then he zip lines with the hanger, like everything about that sequence is so funny and yeah, him like, very like Scooby-Doo-esque, like, contorting his body into like being Giselle and then being Nathaniel and Edward's like, “What are we talking about if not me? Like, I don't… I don't know how to… I don't know how to focus on anybody else.”

Jane

He does the whole thing of like acting out the poisoned apple thing, and then Edward’s just like, “You’d die without me here!” It's like, uh… how did you…?

Sophie

We're not focused on you right now, buddy.

Jane

And then Nathaniel is so like, he's so funny in that too, because he knows exactly what Pip is saying. And he's just, like, very worried about it, and then is like, “Oh, he's not getting it. He's not getting it. It’s fine.”

Sophie

Right, but still he tries to, you know, suffocate Pip in the popcorn box, and...

Jane

Well and he's gonna… he's gonna kill him with a dinner knife too. Like, I'm like, I don't think that's sharp enough.

Sophie

Yeah.

Jane

But yeah, I think that that's… well and especially compared to some of their other like… “live action” animals that they've done more recently, like Pip actually looks pretty good in this movie.

Sophie

He doesn't have to look like an actual chipmunk. I mean, he looks like a chipmunk. He doesn't have to be, like, hyper realistic. Flounder in the new Little Mermaid – because that just came out – is very creepy. He doesn't need to look like that.

Jane

Why would they make them that creepy? I haven't seen it, but I'm, I’ve seen the like...

Sophie

…the promo pictures. Yeah, it's just like I, I I don't know who this is for really, because like we- talking about our six year old, like, we really wanted to take her because you know, it's a, it's a black Ariel and it's really…impactful. And, you know, my partner wants to see it because she loves underwater and mermaids and stuff like that. And as, you know, a black woman, she's interested in seeing it. And we, you know, offered our child to take her. She was like, “No, it looks scary,” which, like, valid.

Jane

Yeah!

Sophie

It does. But then I don't… I don't know who this is for then because it's like, it's not an adults movie because it's still the same story.

Jane

Yeah.

Sophie

But the visuals are creepy.

Jane

I mean is it just counting on people that grew up watching the animated movie will want to watch it? But I'm like, you can still watch the animated movie!

Sophie

Correct. And there are three of those.

Jane

Yeah. If I want to watch Little Mermaid, I'm gonna watch the 1989 movie that launched the Renaissance. I'm not gonna watch this live action one. Although I did see that there was a very cute thing with Jodi Benson and Halle Bailey.

Sophie

Yeah.

Jane

Jodi Benson was endorsing her, and kind of like, “It's so great that you get to do this too” kind of thing in the-

Sophie

Yeah Jodi has been lovely, and her dress at whatever like premiere was really gorgeous. I just think she's a class act. She's good in whatever she does. She's obviously great in her little role as Sam in this movie, but she's also the voice of Thumbelina. She's also the voice of Ariel.

Jane

She's the voice of of the tour guide Barbie in Toy Story 2.

Sophie

Yes, she does so many things.

Jane

And I think Barbie in Toy Story 3 is her too.

Sophie

Oh cool!

Jane

Also so like she sang, like Bible songs on CD's that I had growing up.

Sophie

Oh my God!

Jane

So like, I listened to her singing… it's like “Songs from the Beginner’s Bible.” There's like these Bibles with like stories that are distilled down for like preschoolers? And so they would like they had songs that were kind of based on those Bible stories that Jodi Benson was singing. So I like, think of her as as the voice of my childhood in these like random songs.

Sophie

Aww.

Jane

There was this one song about Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego that I loved as a kid, and I like made up this whole dance to it.

Sophie

That's one of the most Jane things I've ever heard.

Jane

Yes. So Jodi Benson also sang the song of my childhood.

Sophie

Okay.

Jane

I think it was right before The Little Mermaid II came out, which I don't remember exactly when that was. But like, maybe like early 2000s

Sophie

Two thousand…ish?

Jane

Yeah, right around then. So she was like performing at a mall near me and like, my parents took us, my siblings and me, and they didn't tell us that she was going to be there. They were just like, “We're just going to the mall!” and then like, she was like performing. And…

Sophie

Oh my gosh!

Jane

So my brother was really little and really into Little Mermaid. And so so we had seen her perform.

Sophie

Wow!

Jane

Because I remember she was talking about Little Mermaid II, and like explaining what it was going to be about. I just remembered that she said like that Ariel and Eric have a daughter, and so someone asked, “Is she a mermaid or is she a person?” And and Jodi Benson said, “Well, she's both!” It's funny, I have this memory of Jodi Benson specifically promoting Little Mermaid II at this random mall near my house, so...

Sophie

That's so fun. Well, it's funny. So we just moved into a new building, as you know. And our new building has a pool and the pool just opened yesterday, and they have, for whatever reason, because residents are not allowed to have like big pool floaties or anything, but they have these inflatable dolphins in the pool. And first there was one and my partner decided that his name was Eric or [screeches and clicks like a dolphin as Jane laughs], um, in in dolphin language, but Americanized to Eric.

Jane

Right.

Sophie

So then we found a second one. So I was like, well, if his name is Eric, then his girlfriend has be Ariel. And then there now there are two little ones. So we said, Ariel, Eric and Melody, and then the other child one is named Andante because we thought that that would be a good name to go with Melody. So we named them, we named our little pool dolphins yesterday, a little Disney, a little Mamma Mia.

Jane

Yeah, perfect. Which you know, I love both of those things, so…

Sophie

Right, exactly.

Jane

Yeah Mamma Mia 2 did not get enough views to make it on here because it's too new. But I have seen it many times considering it only came out a few years ago.

Sophie

Yes.

Jane

But yeah, and The Little Mermaid did not make it into my Top 40 either, but we get to talk about it a little bit. It's still a great movie. I think some of the best songs in the Disney canon are in that movie.

Sophie

If only you had started keeping track at birth.

Jane

I know, right?

Sophie

Maybe you would have made it.

Jane

Yeah, well, I definitely didn't watch it nearly as much as my brother did.

Sophie

Yeah, that's fair.

Jane

But there will be more Disney to come on here.

Sophie

Did you have a favorite Princess, Jane?

Jane

Um… yes, it it would have been Belle..

Sophie

That makes sense. That tracks I was going to say maybe either Belle or Pocahontas because I know you liked Pocahontas.

Jane

I did really like Pocahontas. I think I really liked Pocahontas because I really liked John Smith's hair. That was like the thing that I really liked about that movie when I saw it as a kid.

Sophie

That’s funny.

Jane

And now I'm like, that movie is kind of very problematic, but...

Sophie

Yeah…

Jane

It has good songs though.

Sophie

Yeah. I think I was very anti-Pocahontas because I grew up in Virginia, so I was very anti-Felicity Merriman, the American girl and anti-Pocahontas, because I was like this is… no, I learned about this in school. I'm not interested. My favorite Princess was Ariel, and I had Little Mermaid pajamas, and I very distinctly remember, like being in the kiddie pool as a child and like, doing the like doing cobra pose essentially?

Jane

Oh yeah.

Sophie

In the pool and like being like, “Oh my God, I look so cool!” And I'm sure I looked like a drowned rat, just like trying to flip my hair back and pretend like I was balancing on a rock. But now I think it's probably Cinderella or Rapunzel. I mean, I I still love Ariel, but I think, yeah, I think Cinderella has edged her out as I've gotten older, which is for a lot of the same reasons that we like Giselle because she's just very kind and soft spoken and she's not denying that she has issues. But she is willing to work through them, which I think is really powerful.

Jane

Yeah, definitely. I was not into the Disney Cinderella because I grew up watching the Rodgers and Hammerstein Lesley Ann Warren Cinderella?

Sophie

Yep.

Jane

And so I was like, “That's the good version and the animated version is the bad version,” which I don't know why. They they can both be good. Like there's so many versions of Cinderella.

Sophie

Yeah, I think there are so many different Cinderellas to choose from. There's Ilene Woods. There's Lesley Ann Warren. There's Julie Andrews. There's Brandy, which is a one that I love. There's Lily James. Which is another one that I love. Yeah, I think they're all so different. I think, you know, it's it's hard for there to be a right one because they're…

Jane

Yeah!

Sophie

They're just all really special.

Jane

You get all the modern retellings of of Cinderella too. There's just been so many versions of that story. So back to Enchanted, it's nice that it's like a combination of all of those fairy tale stories. I do think it's it's very funny the part when when they're having the weird conversation when they're shopping, and Morgan's worried about having a stepmother. And Giselle’s like, “They're not all horrible! Edward has one!” It's like, um that's not a good example.

Sophie

“I've never met her, but I'm sure she's lovely.”

Jane

And then she immediately, like, shows up and is like...

Sophie

Trying to kill you.

Jane

Yeah, it’s like, umm…that was not a good example of a good, good stepmother. And then that in the sequel they talk about that whole thing even more that like because she's the stepmother she must be evil. It's just very interesting.

Sophie

Yeah.

Jane

But anyway… so… we’ve talked about a lot of things that weren't all directly connected to this movie.

Sophie

It's tangential. That's fine.

Jane

Yeah, because the thing is that like, when my brother and I were younger, we wrote this story called Taking Over the Disney Castle and we like, made it so that all the Disney characters were living in this castle together and it was run by the Beast from Beauty and the Beast.

Sophie

Certainly the best landlord Disney has to offer.

Jane

There was some villain… I think there were actually several villains that had, like different plots to try and kill the Beast and take over the castle.

Sophie

Oh my gosh.

Jane

And so then it was like all these different characters from all these different Disney movies were like together. And it was, it was like, basically fan fiction. But it was just like, silly. And we actually like, had printed it out and got it bound and it was like in the elementary school. Library for a little bit.

Sophie

Oh my gosh!

Jane

And so that would have been like, not too long before this movie came out. And so then when it came out, I'm like, “Wow, this is, like, basically what I've wanted to do is, like, combine and all the Disney stories. But this makes way more sense than our story.” [both laugh] And also we had like one of Ariel's sisters, be important in it except the name that we gave her was not actually the name of one of the sisters.

Sophie

Well, she could have been in the new one because they changed all the names of her sisters, which is fine. They're like, named after the seven seas, I think… is the point? But, you know, nothing comes between me and my starts and ends with A sisters.

Jane

Right! I do wish the sisters were better developed. We get a little bit of that in the third one.

Sophie

Mm-hmm.

Jane

But anyway, talking way more about Little Mermaid in this conversation than about Enchanted, it seems like.

Sophie

You would think Jodi Benson played the lead in this movie.

Jane

Yeah. Jodi Benson is the best part of any movie that she's in. OK, the one thing that I don't understand is why does Giselle put that fish in her mouth?

Sophie

I wish I knew. I also… so OK, so the lore that they talk about and Disenchanted is that she was like a foundling and the forest creatures raised her. So I guess that makes sense as to like, A why she has a kinship with animals and B maybe why she doesn't know a lot of fish, I guess?

Jane

Yeah.

Sophie

I mean, I don't know what kind of water situation was like in the forest. I don't know if there were a lot of like freshwater fish, but what I don't understand is, like, why she's so trusting of humans then, if, like Edward is the first human that she's ever met.

Jane

He must not be. Like she must have met other humans at some point, like, cause she's aware of humans.

Sophie

Right. She she can speak English.

Jane

Yeah.

Sophie

That's one of those things. Like, you can't examine that plot hole too closely.

Jane

I mean, I guess she has no reason not to be trusting of humans because she's never been betrayed by one except for her parents, I guess? I I I don't know. There's so many mysteries in this movie.

Sophie

So true.

Jane

But yeah, you just you can't think about it too hard. And like, why would there be a portal that goes through a manhole in the middle of the street? Like...

Sophie

Right.

Jane

I don't know. But it doesn't really matter. The point is, it is, and that meant that Giselle and Robert found each other.

Sophie

Yes, that is true.

Jane

And they're happy.

Sophie

Happy ever after.

Jane

Forever and ever. I do think it's really funny whenever someone just says “forever” that she has to add “and ever” like, is there a forever that's not and ever? Like there's different levels of forever?

Sophie

It's like, just to be sure. Just so we're on the same page.

Jane

Yeah, I don't know, but yes, I love her. She's such a great character. And…

Sophie

Yeah.

Jane

…that really makes the movie. I feel like that we really needed a really good Giselle at the center of the movie and it's perfect. Amy Adams is the perfect Giselle.

Sophie

Yes.

Jane

So good job, Amy Adams, if you're listening. You did almost as well as Jodi Benson. [laughs]

Sophie

[laughs] Yeah.

Jane

Okay, is there anything else you want to talk about before we wrap this up? I feel bad that I don't have more interesting things to say, but it's just it's it's truly just a great movie.

Sophie

It is it's…it is fantastic. No, I think we covered everything that I wanted to talk about anyway.

Jane

Okay!

Sophie

Thank you for having me on.

Jane

Well, thank you so much for being here and uh, yeah, if if you want to come back for a future movie, that would be great. We could talk about something else later.

Sophie

I am always happy to be on your podcast, Jane.

Jane

Well I'm very happy to have you.

Sophie

Thank you!

Jane

Thank you very much to Sophie for that delightful conversation, and thank you to everyone else for listening. I had so much fun overanalyzing this movie, and I hope you all did too. And with that, we are now halfway through my top 40 list! All of the movies to come are those I’ve seen at least 20 times, so when I started this I thought about just talking about the 20 movies I watched at least 20 times in 20 years, but I’m glad I decided to talk about numbers 21 though 40 as well. I feel like I’ve already learned so much about myself and movies and storytelling from this project, and I’m so grateful to have you listeners along on this journey with me! I hope you’ll enjoy the top 20 list. Next up is another fairytale-inspired story from the 2000s, and I will be joined by another special guest, so stay tuned for that. As always, I will leave you with a quote from that next movie: “Look, I think it’s only fair to warn you that I’m practiced in the ancient art…of origami!”

#enchanted #disney #amy adams #jodi benson #the rewatch rewind

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sharksfood · 6 years ago

Text

spoilers for Ralph Breaks the Internet (Wreck-It Ralph 2)

SO i was going to wait to record my thoughts on Ralph Breaks the Internet until after i finished my homework but i cant stop thinking about it!!!

anyways, I saw RBTI on Tuesday night in 3D and it was AMAZING!! i mean, both the movie by itself and how it looked in 3D. i loved that they put in a nod to those movies that took 3D to the fullest potential with stuff coming at you from the screen, when Ralph was throwing the football into the air.

BESIDES THAT i LOVED this movie!!!! i’m no negative nancy when it comes to sequels and i had been wanting a WIR followup since the first one came out!

but to get the biggest aspect out of the way, i was not always on board with the plot of Ralph and Vanellope going into the Internet. when I first heard the movie announcement and the whole Internet aspect it didn’t totally make sense to me. I mean, I originally thought the gang going into online games was a good mix between Internet and video games (since WIR revolves around video games). However I quickly changed my mind, especially since they WOULD be going into online/mobile games.

My initial reaction to the movie as a whole was EXTREMELY POSITIVE!!! I loved how the animation looked, the fact that we got an introduction on what Ralph, Vanellope, Felix, and Tammy (Calhoun) had been up to since the last movie, and that everything including the arcade had changed in basically real time. That last part was a bit sad too, especially with how few games were left in the arcade and that it seems business was not as good for Mr. Litwak as it used to be. BUT this movie, especially the beginning, was like catching up with an old friend after a long time apart! WIR means so much to me and I was so glad Disney took the time to connect to those who’d seen and loved the first movie.

I’ll admit I was a little nervous with how they’d handle the Internet, especially for a fictional universe thats based on the real one, like WIR. I knew they’d have to create fake websites and video games and what not to fit the plot and because of licensing rights. I’m also glad they did this because if Yesss were the algorithm for actual BuzzFeed or YouTube I don’t think they’d let anyone forget that. plus that would be too 4th wall breaking in my opinion. and this movie did A LOT or meta/4th wall stuff. I dont think any of the references or hints or real-world tie ins were annoying or over the top, it was the right amount for me. they could have made everything fictional, but that would fail to hook people. it was the right amount of fiction and real-life.

that being said, I do think some of the things Ralph, Vanellope, and Yesss accomplished couldn’t work in the real world. What bothered me is that any video of Ralph showed him as 3D, like how he looks in Sugar Rush or in the Game Central Station. Yes, that is how he looks “inside” the games and from other video game character’s perspective, but does that work for humans? Maybe it wasn’t explained very well, thats all. WIR is at times a little hard to wrap my head around. But then again, not everything needs to be explained or completely realistic, since, you know, video game characters are not able to coexist in each other’s games or buy stuff from Ebay.

the new characters was SO GOOD especially Yesss, Shank, and Knowsmore (to me anyways). I would have liked if the new characters had interacted with each other on screen more (like Yesss and Shank are friends but you wouldn’t know that without each of them saying so). also the Disney Princesses were adorable and actually more plot-related than i thought they’d be!

the biggest surprise for me is how much importance the movie gave to Vanellope for being a princess, i mean, she got a song and everything! To me she never gave her princessship much mind, since she only wanted to be a racer. by the end of the movie she was farther from being a princess than before. but i think this was intentional and why we got the scene with the other princesses in the first place, Disney wanted to show that there’s no one way to be a princess. obviously Pixar addressed this with Merida, and I think Moana is a good example, too, but Vanellope really is the least-princessy princess. I’m also glad that they didn’t make her song or voice too cute/pretty, it fit with her character, personality, and dream!

the part of this movie that my most impactful for me was the message and eventually plot structure of how Ralph and Vanellope’s friendship was addressed. WIR means a lot to me is many ways, but the fact that romance or blood family isnt the main relationship dynamic is huge. I mean, I can’t think of many Disney/Pixar movies that do this, and even those that do, friendship is just a subplot. Ralph and Vanellope becoming friends, protecting one another, even in the face of their differences is one of the main messages of WIR (the other being self-acceptance and following your heart). RBTI took this further with the message of how friends can grow, drift apart, have difference dreams, become too attached, and build negative friendships based on anxieties. I’ve NEVER seen this in an animated movie, and it hit me pretty hard.

so with anxiety in mind, I really liked how Vanellope’s glitching was utilized, i mean since she now has a general control on it, she doesn’t glitch out as much. the only time she does in RBTI is when she wants to or when she’s super anxious. its almost like a physical symptom of her having a panic attack. (on a personal note, Vanellope’s glitching was the main thing that helped me get over my fear of glitch, so that relation to anxiety and fear is very meaningful to me) but Vanellope’s anxieties were very different from Ralph’s, which is good! they both struggled with being accepted within their games in the past, and part of that still lingers, though now, especially for Ralph, it manifests in anxiety over their friendship. I really like the direction that Disney/Pixar has taken with some of their movies recently in that the main antagonist is not a villain, but rather an emotion or conflict anthropomorphized.

as for the characters, Ralph and Vanellope were PERFECT. Vanellope is my favorite and she was just amazing. Their characters were the right amount of the same from the first movie and different, since there’s been 6 years for them to grow. I’m also really happy that Felix and Tammy were in RBTI, though I wish they were in it more. I mean, this was Ralph and Vanellope’s movie, but most of Tammy’s appearances were just for comedic affect, in my opinion. They also seemed way different, but I guess that’s marriage? It’s as if their character-specific dialogue and quirks were toned down. Maybe after a second viewing it’ll make more sense to me.

My only other complaints are that when Ralph accidentally finds the comment section of BuzzTube, his reaction and that whole scene didn’t add much to the story. I think it was important, especially given Ralph’s past, but it was so short. Ralph seemed to have forgotten all about it after the scene ended. The comments and toxic parts of the Internet play a much bigger role than that, so I wish it was addressed better. I also thought it was weird that we didn’t get any clear context as to why Mr. Litwak got Wifi in the first place. I mean, I assumed it was to get an online presence for the Arcade, but i don’t think that was actually addressed. Of course thats a minor thing compared to my previous comment.

The last thing I noticed is that the main conflict of the movie, the steering wheel of Sugar Rush breaking and how they’d need to buy a new one or Sugar Rush would be gone for good, was introduced too soon. I think this was done because there was so much content to get through within 2 hours, and I know that the main premise was involving the Internet, so staying in the Arcade would defeat this purpose. It’s just that to me it all sort of fell into place a little too easy and fast. Also, Vanellope feeling trapped in a boring loop of her game and other feelings from the characters in the beginning were told rather than shown. I know already mentioned that I thought certain things weren’t “explained” well enough, but I mean that like, both visually and through dialogue. With the emotional parts of the movie’s conflicts, I think those developed well once Ralph and Vanellope got into the Internet, but it seemed “presented” almost at first. Again, I only saw it once and its not totally fresh in my mind anymore, so maybe after seeing it again it’ll clear this up.

okay so as for the aesthetic and animation of RBTI it was GORGEOUS!!! I love how Disney/Pixar can take things like the Internet or your brain (like in Inside Out) and turn them into working cities/structures that are creative and make sense! I really like that Pop Ups are maneuvered by sentient beings like street salespeople, since the feeling of online popups and ads is the same! Also, the Dark Web being the underbelly of the Internet “city” and all the avatars are dressed like theyre in Incognito mode is amazing. i also LOVED the viruses, since they looked like gross, scary, creepy fictional bugs or visual germs (they reminded me of Osmosis Jones in a way). How the viruses functioned, at least the Insecurity Virus, made sense for how I think most people imagine computer viruses to act. I honestly don’t know how that stuff happens, and I bet Disney knew most of their audiences dont either, so they took some artistic liberties with that in mind. But the virus was a clever plot device because it literally detected insecurities, both in that Ralph/Vanellope were insecure about their friendship, and neither of them “belonged” in the Internet.

ANOTHER THING is when Shank and her crew had to fight the Slaughter Race players, the distinction between player and NPC was clear and funny. It felt very GTA to me. How they handled Slaughter Race in general was great, since it was obviously a violent video game, but they didn’t tone it down too much to loose that feeling. I think it would’ve been cool to see cars and buildings “update” like they do in some games, too. OH the way that the Virus Ralphs joined together to make the Giant Ralph and that they kept moving to make the entire thing kinetic was SO CREEPY BUT COOL!!! that must have taken forever to animate. I also noticed that on the Giant Ralph the little virus dudes were like laying down or posed a certain way to give the impression of different textures or colors on Giant Ralph, which is amazing!!! the filmmakers and animators paid so much care to the look and feel of this movie and it really paid off.

okay last few things before I forget: all of the main characters were great examples of positive and negative personality aspects that real people could reflect on. Ralph felt so much more openly emotional and body positive than in the first, which for a dude character is great!! Vanellope has always been a great example of a girl who likes “tomboy” or “masculine” stuff but still likes cute and “girly” stuff (i mean she obviously wasn’t into the whole princess thing but she found her own way around it!). Felix and Tammy in RBTI were obviously an example on how married couples can still love each other just like the day they met! Did i mention how much I love Yesss? I love her SO MUCH!!! she wore a different outfit/hairstyle every time we saw her, she was fun and smart and over the course of the movie grows to actually care about Ralph and Vanellope beyond their Internet fame. the MUSIC was fantastic as always, and I love Imagine Dragon’s song and the Julia Michaels rendition of Vanellope’s song on Slaughter Race.

Just like the first one, this movie was funny, heartwarming, emotional, and really fun!! I hope it gets all the recognition and love it deserves. I can’t accurately say if I like this one of the previous better, since I’ve only seen it once. HOWEVER I ma really glad that Disney has made a lot of merch for RBTI since the first one got barely anything. All in all, I loved Ralph Breaks the Internet!!!!

P.S. Did yall see the after credits scene?

#babble #ralph breaks the internet #wreck it ralph 2 #ralph breaks the internet spoilers #sorry this is so long i have many feelings

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