#IT'S INSANE. I'M GETTING QUEERBAITED WITH “STRAIGHT” PEOPLE

[rotisseries]

I also want to talk about the implications of the hateno house

THANK YOU LETS TALK ABOUT SOMETHING DIFFERENT FROM WHAT THE REST OF MY BLOG LOOKS LIKE RIGHT NOW

ok so i just info dumped all this to a mutual earlier but LET'S REVIEW THE FACTS. SO.

zelda is living in link's house from botw. and while the sidequest was optional it was supposed to get torn down if you didn't buy it. so we can ASSUME that in totk canon link bought the house!!! so it was his house!! and we COULD assume that she just kicked link out, but that doesn't sound like her!!! and HERE'S WHY THEY'RE ACTUALLY SHARING THAT DUMB LITTLE TWIN BED EVERY NIGHT

a. zelda's journal mentions that link accompanies her everywhere. he's always sticking by her side, which fits him perfectly as her destiny appointed knight and also her friend and also more once i get my hands on the zelda dev team. AT THE VERY LEAST he would definitely live near her. but there are no other places link could possibly be living in this town. i haven't made it through the entire game yet so i can't say for sure that there's nowhere in the entire game that he could be living but my money is on fucking no. also every single time you talk to an npc they're like "hey link :D! where's zelda?" pretty much confirmation that you never see one without the other. they are a UNIT

b. zelda's diary mentions that she had a builder add on a secret room for privacy. WHY WOULD SHE NEED A SECRET ROOM FOR PRIVACY IF IT'S HER HOUSE AND SHE'S THE ONLY ONE LIVING THERE??????? also in her study there's link's hair tie. why is his hair tie in her house?🤨 (also conjures thoughts of her doing his hair <3333) ALSO in her study she has ANOTHER journal where she mentions that the fact that link sticking with her so much has manifested in wear and tear on his clothes, so she secretly had a new and improved shirt made for him and she hid it at hyrule castle. 1. gift for him!!! 2. she set up a scavenger hunt for him!!! 3. why can't she hide it at her own house????? hmmm??? HMMMM???????🤨🤨🤨 IT'S BECAUSE HE LIVES THERE I KNOW IT

c. the house has lot's of the same decorations from when it was link's, the flower on the nightstand, the furniture is the same, THE DINING TABLE IS SET FOR TWO, and link's picture from the dlc is still there (if you play the game with a profile that has a botw save on your switch, which i can't personally confirm because i'm playing totk on my new switch and my profile doesn't have a botw save on it because i played botw on the family switch) but anyway, link's decor. AND. THE MOST DAMNING PIECE OF EVIDENCE. YOU. THE PLAYER. AS IN LINK. CAN STILL SLEEP IN THAT TWIN BED. IN THIS GAME, YOU CANNOT SLEEP IN ANY NPC BEDS. IF THAT WAS TRULY JUST ZELDA'S (AN NPC) BED THEN YOU WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO SLEEP IN IT. I REST MY CASE. ZELINK CANON BUT THEY WON'T CONFIRM IT. MR. ANOUMA COME OUTSIDE I JUST WANT TO TALK

[the-lark-ascending69]

If Robin were a boy she'd be everyone's favorite character but since she's a girl she only gets to be Steve's gay best friend.

[lovingherwasgay]

I'm genuinely afraid that once the movie comes out and it inevitably doesn't "make trobed canon" people will be quick to criticize its quality for it and dismiss it as a whole. like it's a fatal flaw and bad writing. like the whole movie is shit because of it. It's not. we can love trobed all we want but it isn't owed to us and it doesn't mean the character arcs are BAD just because they don't turn out the way WE would like them to. It's not the only valid outcome.

and we haven't been queerbaited ffs. Does community really look like a show that gives a shit about what the popular audience thinks? do you seriously believe Dan Harmon and the writers would write anything into the show with the sole purpose of gaining the viewership of some specific audiences? LMAO go watch the show again. this show barely scraped by enough to get its 6 seasons because they DID NOT COMPROMISE artistic integrity, ever, they always made the show they wanted to make even at the cost of near cancellation and viewership loss. if they wanted to 'bait' any audiences into watching they could've made a more digestible, less fucking insane tv show my dude.

and not to be that person but Yes, if you only think their relationship is worthwhile if they're canonically confirmed as romantic/sexual you are SO missing the point of what already makes them special in the first place. They're soulmates they're best friends they love each other more than anyone else and all this CAN be platonic/queerplatonic. You can dislike the writers' decision on that, you can disagree with them, but it does NOT mean it's queerbaiting or that the writers are making it a gay joke/trying to bait gay audiences. It just sounds like you're channeling your old wounds with past truly queerbaity shows into this situation when it does not apply at all, this isn't that kind of show and it never was nor will be.

And honestly, on another note, just take a look at how Dan Harmon writes relationships in general. No ship in community is meant to last. Every time he uses them it's there to show the character's FLAWS and why the relationships suck (jeffannie, jeff/britta, britta/troy, annie/troy...). He has NO INTENTION of writing a relationship that WORKS, that stays together for good, it doesn't interest him. If it appears in the show it's doomed to fail.

"Uh why don't they make trobed canon but we have to see these shitty straight ships that don't even work together :/" gee I wonder WHY. almost like it was written that way intentionally or something. With this in mind, him not making trobed explicit is honestly a GOOD thing and I am glad it's something just for us to dream about, because relationships in Community's universe just don't last. Friendship and found family are the things that prevail forever, as the 6 seasons kept proving again and again. You can dislike this about his writing, you can think it's a bad take, but it does not mean you can accuse him of queerbaiting just because he doesn't wanna write what YOU wanted to see onscreen. That's not on him or the writers.

TL,DR: we are not entitled to canon trobed and if you'll trash talk the movie just because it doesn't go through with it you're missing the whole point of the show you supposedly love and understand

[batmanisagatewaydrug]

You seem like a really reasonable person and something I want to propose (though the thought is probably not new at all): Gaylors seem like they weaponize Swift's victimized position as a woman in music industry only when they need it to play in their favor. The moment this woman that they and the rest of their weird fandom seem to appreciate for being outspoken and powerful does something that does not fit into their rhetoric, she is immediately devoid of voice. Everything she says is a "clue", every direct "I am straight and how sexualized my life is bothers me" is a "code" for something; it's straight up scary.

There's a woman sitting in front of them talking about her life experience, and they just giggle and go "ok ok now say the truth". Like. Isn't it insane.

I hope this ask doesn't get touched by terfs or some similar crap since I'm talking about how misogynistic Gaylors are, but my idea is that they give their "favorite creator" zero agency. She can't decide her own sexuality, she can't have a voice, she can't live a life without being scrutinized for "queerbaiting" the most misguided and mistaken part of her audience.

This is just ironic because I expected TS fans to be more respectful towards the words of their idol since such a large motto of the entire fandom clique is "look at how empowered she is". Yeah. But her fans get to dismiss her every word because they can't handle being into a straight white woman's music.

Anyways, stay safe and sorry for the rant.

many people would disagree with your assessment of me as reasonable, but I do agree with pretty much all of what you've said here. whether or not Taylor is read as a victim tends to vary depending on what's most convenient to maintaining the Gaylor conspiracy at any given time. for years it's been popular to imagine her as a victim of some nebulous force with control over her career pressuring her to stay closeted while dating a variety of men she doesn't really like to serve as beards. but when she offers opposition, even mildly and indirectly, then she receives accusations of herself being a vindictive bully who's deliberately betraying Gaylors by refusing to come out.

it all makes a lot more sense if you understand that the Gaylor portion of the fandom don't actually like "Taylor Swift," the person or even the public persona; they like the version of Taylor Swift that exists in their brains who's a kind of closeted lesbian Riddler with nothing better to do than spend a decade assembling a Da Vinci Code-style trail of clues for them to follow.

[follivora]

what I don't understand is that why people are calling whatever jan & nace are doing "performative" and "queerbaiting" (ffs) , while being seemingly okay with jere, who's out there fully gaying it up with every single man that comes within five feet of him, while being in a steady relationship with a woman (and probably straight?). this must sound like I'm bashing jere, and I'm absolutely not, I love him, and I commend him for pushing the boundaries. but it's just interesting and weird to me that is he allowed to play with his identity like that, but if jan and nace do it, even just a little bit, it's performative queerbaiting. that smells like hypocrisy.

this is exactly what i cant wrap my head around either. i do love jere to death and i do love him just doing whatever he likes and whoever he likes for that matter, but exactly as you said, out of all of the guys, he's the only one in a confirmed relationship at the moment but we all love him and his boyfriends right. JO are probably all single rn because of their insane schedule, but even if they weren't, nace and jan never pretended to be dating? i dont know what they have but its fucking beautiful, they very apparently adore each other and they love to be close to each other, it can be fucking platonic and thats okay but its real? why would they fake it? what would a guitarist and a bass player with 30k followers each would get from it?

how dare you like say that jan, who's always been super comfortable with being close to men, said his crushes are male, had a fucking hot line call to be a male, dresses however he wishes and is fucking very open and free minded is queerbaiting? how dare you say that nace, who's had a fucking pride flag profile pic long before becoming famous, has been super comfy with being touchy with every man around him since we've known him, someone with a little fun dingily earring and extremely kind heart would just queerbait and trick fans into thinking something?

the insane attempt at proving that nace and jan are straight first on twitter and now fucking here actually screams of homophobia, i dont see anyone trying to prove that kris is straight 24/7 even tho he mentioned dating someone in the same interviews like nace did, why do you care so much about if nace likes dick or not jesus fuck let him be himself without dragging him down and comparing him to stereotypes

i am not saying they are queer. i am not saying they are not queer. i am just a very strong believer in letting people living their lives, loving people around them and i dont have any reason to think people would fake their existence for getting 128 hundred more likes lmao

[bytedykes]

What is ORV actually about? I assumed that it was like... A modern psychological thriller with a bit of queerbait, but now I'm seeing your posts and reblogs tagged ORV that are all kinda surreal and fantasy type stuff, I feel like I saw the word isekai a couple times? So what is ORV actually?

ok i have been sitting on this ask for a few days bc i. have no idea where to even begin trying to explain what orv is about

here's a post by tumblr user ot3 that does a better job of explaining orv than i ever could. below the cut is MY attempt at an orv summary

"what is orv actually about?" this is a wonderful question. i don't know. i did nothing but read this novel for 2 weeks straight and i could not for the life of me tell you what orv is "about"

the thing about this book is that if you're reading it, it makes perfect sense. the events are linear. there is a bunch of mindfucky bullshit BUT it all happens in a relatively straightforward way. i understand orv perfectly. but at gunpoint, could i put the events in chronological order? no. pull the trigger

ok. orv is about a salaryman named kim dokja who has the most uninteresting boring life in the world. this is a lie. he does nothing but go to his job he's about to get fired from, eat convenience store kimbap, and read webnovels. he reads a specific webnovel (twsa) that has been updating daily for 13 years straight. he has been reading it since he was 15 through his entire adult life

twsa is about the apocalypse, starring protagonist yoo joonghyuk. the day kim dokja reads the last chapter and eagerly awaits the epilogue to be published the apocalypse happens. exactly like in the webnovel. now armed with a .txt file of twsa and his autism superpowers he navigates the apocalypse trying to reach his ideal ending

orv, for lack of better term, does not take itself very seriously at times. frequently, even. at least half of the major plot points are comprised of complete bullshit. every few chapters i had to put the book down and go "no fucking WAY is this actually happening" but it was! it was happening every time! its hysterical!

orv is also extremely meta. every time you think "ok it cannot possibly get more meta, this is it, this is the peak" ur wrong. u are wrong every single time until the very end of the epilogue. it can ALWAYS get more meta. orv is 100% the most meta thing i have read in my life

on top of all this, pretty much anything you can think of has happened in orv. "orv is a book about everything" while an exaggeration, this is true. it really fucking is. it has everything in it. you know that poem by shel silverstein, "everything on it"? that's what reading orv is like

it tackles many serious topics (such as: loneliness, the desperate desire to connect with other people combined with the inability to allow yourself to be loved, finding the things that push you to keep surviving) and many topics that are. not that (such as: "what if a dumpling had a face how would that work", "what if gay people were insane and not even friends", "what if a guy was so autistic his brain started eating people", "what if a monkey was actually 4 monkeys" and more such things. wouldnt that be fucked up)

orv definitely. yeah. surreal and fantasy type stuff is a very appropriate descriptor. a modern psychological thriller is... also appropriate i suppose. "a bit of queerbait" is NOT appropriate because orv is built on queerbait but not in the sense of it being baiting. in the sense of it being canon but unsaid. like its not canon. but it is. its canon and it is constant. there is an archangel that ships said queerbait she is a proud yaoi supporter. this is a real thing i am not making up

on top of that insane queerbait. there is insane polycule bait as well. like i need you to understand that while its not "canon" in the traditional sense of the word it IS real and it IS on screen and it IS as explicit as it could actually be without it actually being, you know, explicit. it literally makes me feel insane

ISEKAI. RIGHT. im not really familiar with isekai as a genre so take this paragraph with a grain of salt but orv is more of a reverse isekai? the fantasy world comes TO the "real" world. however there are in fact multiple isekais-within-the-isekai later on. multiple types of them even

anyway orv is also heavily based on the theme of stories and like. god i hope you've read ot3's post because im sure they explained it better. its a very theme-heavy piece of media where the rules of the world aren't based on logic but based on how they can further the themes. its very intricately constructed and like

it will blow your mind. god. i dont even know what im saying anymore. its good is my point it is so fucking good. orv changed me. it is a very hopeful piece of media and i am sure that rereading it will devastate me even harder than it did the first time

TLDR: orv is an insane long book about literally everything and at least half of those things are complete bullshit but are incredibly integral to the plot. somehow. it is very worth reading and will change ur life forever

[eisforeidolon]

https://www.tumblr.com/eisforeidolon/718435014496354304/sure-you-can-interpret-deans-sexuality-however

I was literally called biphobic by a heller because I said in canon Dean is straight. She squalled about how she’s bi and Dean is so special to her because he is just like her, and just because he doesn’t act on his attraction to me it doesn’t mean he can’t be bi.

Like, bish please, he says he doesn’t swing that way specifically at least twice, and in other words a bunch more times. Dean. Says. He. Is. Only. Into. Women.

Also, another person on this same forum chipped in with suggesting not using the word canon because it’s triggering. 👀. Only if you hate the text of the story. 🙄

It really isn’t a difficult concept to grasp. And, for real, like whatever you want and ship your little heart out, but stop screaming how it’s canon when it isn’t, and how if you don’t support it you’re a bigot. It’s insane.

Also, you noting how he could tick a box and they’d still explain it away. Well, on the hook-up App his profile says “interested in: women.” What do they do? Photo-shop it to say men!

Ugh!!

Sorry for the rant, but I feel you on your frustration with this.

I'm sorry you had to put up with that, anon. I was a multishipper until I got pissed off at all the posts shouting you had to be a homophobe to think canon detestiel wasn't a thing, but at least it wasn't done on a personal level.

Oh, man, I just find that kind of bizarre projected overattachment-as-interpretation so fucking weird and off-putting. "I'm bisexual and I see myself in Dean, so Dean must be bisexual! I was abused as a child and John reminds me of my abuser, so John must have canonically done X type of abuse!" As if any character is remotely relatable to you then they have to be exactly like you/your experiences in all the details? What an absolutely bizarre and myopically self-centered way to engage with fiction. Like, with a perspective like that do you get that other people than you exist and have different experiences, even when they might have some things in common, too? Just ... IDGI and I don't want to.

I also just can't with the idea that the word canon is triggering. I ... can't. As if it hurts you that there's a source material that doesn't match the fantasies you made up in your head instead?! What.

Again, yeah, the problem isn't the ship at all. It's that they can't just stay in their lane and be remotely normal about it - trying to insist it's canon despite the actual canon because [giant pile of horseshit, projection, stereotypes, and wishing reallll hard] and insisting anyone who refuses to play along with their make-believe must be a bigot. I don't care if people ship a ship I personally can't stand anymore, I care when they're fucking delusional flaming assholes about it.

And don't even get me started on how they wail about being queerbaited and then do shit like photoshopping that screenshot to say men to quite possibly actually queerbait other fans into believing it's legit canon. Ugh.

[tieria-erde]

i finished rewatching gwitch! here are some of my final thoughts, broadly and in no particular order

~7.5/10 show. i enjoyed it a lot and i would recommend it to others even if i feel that it fell flat thematically in a number of places

suletta is an unbelievably good protagonist. i do not have particularly charitable opinions on the portrayal of women in the gundam franchise, so when this show was first announced i deliberately kept my expectations very low. i'm glad i did, but i really didn't need to, because holy shit they knocked it out of the fucking park with suletta

similarly, i still can't believe that they made a yuri gundam and the yuri is FANTASTIC. they got lesbian married and everything. no notes. when the finale first aired i saw a baffling number of people complaining online that gwitch was queerbait, ostensibly for not having an outright confession or kiss scene. to those people i have to say: GOD YOU ARE STUPID

i started this rewatch because this show's stance on parents has bothered me since i first watched it, and it made it hard to properly recommend it to people. i will, eventually, make a very long post about this, but i think i've successfully made peace with my grievances about this specific topic, for the most part

...however i still find the trajectory of guel's character arc egregiously disappointing

this show did not spend enough time on earth

when gwitch was first airing i saw someone point out how norea expresses a really potent grief over the idea that "earthian lives are cheaper than spacians'", and that line hits really hard, but then... the show proves her right by having earthian characters be basically the only deaths in the cast by the end. that's always stuck with me. i mean, it's fucking true, jesus

i said something midway through season 2 along the lines of "the rest of this show is too heavy to have earned the ending it got" and i don't know if i still believe that. for one, i've said this before and i'll say it again: the lesbian gundam show ending with a literal rainbow light show is FUCKING FUNNYYY

for two, i do think it became kind of hard for this show to kill its characters off at a certain point because they REALLY wanted to drive the point home of "you can't run from your past mistakes, you have to move forward" and a character kind of has to be alive to move forward... oops!

i ALSO said something about "run and gain one, move forward and gain two" being a "flawed adage" or something, and that was kind of me misremembering certain aspects of the story... i thought they condemned prospera's little motto at some point, but it actually continued to in fact basically be the message of the whole show...

i found it kind of hard to connect whatever prospera was doing to the political goings-on of the plot... to be honest, throughout the whole quiet zero thing, i kept thinking to myself, "god, i wish we were looking at the political situation on earth instead right now"

I Should Read The Tempest BTW

this show's character writing is straight up fantastic. i feel like almost every single character was memorable and charming in some way

for some reason, though, ojelo's name is only said once in this entire show. i'm not kidding. they tell you his name when they introduce him and then never say it again. i know this because i heard his name in his first appearance, forgot it, and then spent the rest of the show waiting for them to say it again so i could remember it. it never happened. do you know who ojelo gabel is? no, you don't. because they ONLY SAY HIS NAME ONCE.

also, unpopular opinion, but i don't really care for prospera. i don't know if i'm insane for this, but after watching it multiple times i STILL don't understand that scene where all the ghosts from the prologue are talking to prospera and suletta's like "you chose eri's future over revenge, and i can't fault you for that!" like, holy shit, i genuinely don't get it. she didn't do that at all. she killed people? she actively declared that she wanted to get revenge on delling rembran and Kill Him? am i missing something. this scene doesn't make any sense. if this scene makes sense to you legit please explain it to me

i had fun yay ^_^ ok thanks for reading

[agumonger]

look i'm sorry to say this due to the context at hand *gestures* and i know that hollywood is a cesspool of terrible human beings with terrible interests but yeah, i did. i did watch deadpool and wolverine

and i just

i can NOT stay silent about the sheer homoerotic tension between the two protagonists. they really took one of the most terminally straight, pent-up, macho and yet male-fantasy superheroes and played the fantasy completely straight, going all the way into insane fanservice. they saw the vision and they went for it

it's a testosterone filled movie, very manlike, very action-packed, hysterical as usual, very tryhard edgy but on purpose in a weird meta-ironic way, and i left the theater TERRIBLY HORNY I'M SORRY I'M SORRY I'M SORRY I'M S---

like you canNOT just fucking end the movie on a climatic scene where, not only does wolverine FINALLY don his iconic mask in a movie and look ridiculously hot in it (and the suit tbh) BUT in the peak of tension his clothes literally evaporate for no reason and you get SEVERAL shots of his glistening pecs and abs with glorious music bein all like "this is what you wanted" after like two hours of very much intentional homoerotic tension that you know isn't going to go anywhere bc wolverine is straight as hell (even though deadpool is most likely pan or whatever i can't tell)

EXCEPT SOMEWHERE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE MOVIE THEY LIKE. UM?????????????? HAVE SEX???????????? BUT IT'S NOT SEX????????????? BUT IT IS??????????? HANG ON HANG ON

ok so like they're inside this car right... in the middle of a forest... no one's around... they get all deep and emotional and then they get super mad at each other and they start a super gory and violent fight and they thrash the car and it's all a terribly bloody mess and then the fucking Camera Pans Out And The Car Is Shaking Like They Were Doing The Thing and They stay Like That for The Entire Night and there's this weirdly sensual but hateful but playful energy all the way throughout and it's like IT'S SO CHAOTIC WHAT THE CAPITAL W WHAT

THEY BASICALLY MADE A HATE SEX SCENE THAT'S NOT A HATE SEX SCENE BUT IT IS

The whole movie seems to explore this complicated relationship we have with toxic masculinity in which we hate it and it's bad but it's also kind of weirdly sexy and hot but it's also ridiculous and and-

ARE YOU SEEING MY VISION

AND IT'S LIKE... THE STRAIGHT GUY AUDIENCE IS SO SILENT ABOUT THIS????? DO THEY NOT SEE IT... but again, it's marvel, it's disney, OF COURSE this movie is not queer at all

but it also kinda? sorta? is? maybe? because it's very clearly marketed at straight guys

but then they add these moments of sheer macho extravaganza where the unintentional eroticism of the testosterone induced madness teeters on the line between unintentional and intentional except it's very much intentional but it's also a joke

i have not once seen any comment about this movie being woke, and it isn't, don't get me wrong. but it has all of the elements that would make Those People cry "woke madness", just arranged in such a way that it's barely a joke even though they somehow managed to fit

what's 90% of the way into a hate sex scene featuring the two male protagonists but it isn't but it absolutely FEELS that way if you *Know*

a straight-up fan service scene that is every masked man fan's wet dream come true

i think they're not saying anything because the movie is very much celebrating that brand of masculinity so they're like "hell yeah" but it's just so... you know what i mean?

it makes me wonder how much homoeroticism can straight guys literally EAT UP as long as it's suposed to be "a joke" and "funny" and "ironic"

did i get queerbaited in 2024? well no. like i didn't really expect them to start dating at ALL (they didn't). but it's like. funny. i'm almost positive they wanted to dare a lot of the male audience to stay convinced they're straight and not have a single hard-on at any point during the movie. while at the same time steering clear of any accusations because "comedy guys!!!!!!!!!!!! so funny!!!! haha!!!" and yet no one says anything because if you do, oh maybe you're just projecting, are you gaaaaaaay?????

all i'm saying is the car scene was as hot as all hell and LOWKEY kind of a serve idek i'm tired my brain is tired i am not immune to queerbait propaganda take me boys i am Weak and painfully basic and cringe

but also i hate the uhhh two wokeness jokes in the movie they're stale and bad (though deadpool does use the singular they pronoun once without even flinching? "groundbreaking" i know i KNOW leave me aloneeeeee afknlzsgjsd)

sorry for saying anything good about mainstream media (you know why but mentioning it in this frivolous ass post just feels wrong)

anyway if you actually read this thank you and i'm sorry you had to experience this from me. here have a flowe 🌸

[golbrocklovely]

people who ship larry and really anyone who tries to force a certain sexuality on people irk me like no other. and it’s sooooo embarrassing

i’ve seen grown ass women like 60+ who have children and grandchildren trying to convince people that “larry is real” 🫠 do whatever makes you happy but seriously? you have a family and much bigger responsibilities so why are you focusing on two people who have said either that larry wasn’t real or that they weren’t gay. i hate even saying the word larry. if you have to consistently look for “proofs” in between the lines of the things they do than maybe it’s time to let it go.

i have never once thought they were romantically involved. the boys in my highschool class were FAR worse than harry and louis. like you would genuinely believe they were in love or something because that’s what teen boys do, they think stuff like that is funny.

anyways sorry for the long rant i just cannot with people who try to force sexuality on people. if either of them were actually gay and wanted the world to know, they would. it’s 2023 and queer is not a dirty word anymore.

disclaimer: i've noticed that every single time i talk about harry styles on here, i somehow get either asks shitting on him or asks being rude to me bc of some opinion i have of him. i'm letting you know this now - i do not care. idc if you don't like him bc "he queerbaits and his music isn't even that good and he didn't deserve his grammys and blah blah blah" IDC. sorry. i don't want your think pieces. i don't care what you have to say about him, especially if it's negative. if you don't like him, totally fine. but i do, so just move it along then. don't read this ask. why frustrate yourself over someone you don't like.

now about your ask lol

imma be honest with you, i don't really know everything about larry, mostly bc i was never into one direction (jonas brothers fans where you at?) but i did at one point or another watch some videos on them, out of curiosity. and let me tell you, the lengths some of these ppl go to is very interesting to me. bc at some point, you just gotta face facts: they aren't together. and that's okay.

especially when you try to question their sexuality and shit. that's when it gets gross to me, too. you aren't owed an answer to someone's sexuality, and questioning will not make the person more comfortable to come out, if that's something they are considering.

i don't mind the occasional conspiracy theory or kiki about fandom drama - god knows i would be a hypocrite if i said otherwise. but there comes a point where you gotta be honest with yourself and what actual reality is vs what you want it to be. those are very much TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.

like i've seen some ppl go as far as to claim that louis' baby isn't really his and that harry is contractually obligated to appear straight and shit like that and i'm just like…. none of this exhausts you? bc this is such a reach, and borderline insane.

is it possible that maybe, at one point in time, louis and harry could have been a thing? sure. i'll give you that. they were both young boys thrown into fame and needed someone to lean on, so i can believe that maybe they leaned on each other and things could have gotten more than just platonic. but clearly, that just isn't the case anymore. let it be.

if you still believe, you're allowed to. go ahead and do so. but don't expect everyone to agree with you.

[septembersghost]

Do you think harry would be respected as a 'artist' in a way Taylor is now? Like I went to reddit and most people talk about how he got through because of 'queerbaiting' and 'hotness' instead of talent. Like people are claiming 'as it was' is the most generic song ever and he steals sound from other people and I'm like.............Since 1d days harry's sound was different from rest of 1d. I even think that is one of the reasons why non of his songs were single(except perfecut but that was for different reasons). He always gravitated towards rock and 'his sound' is clear now than ever and people simply ignore it and hate on him.

not at all directed at you nor things you don't already know, but i cannot possibly express to you how angry the queerbaiting discussion makes me, and it's late and i am very tired so i probably can't articulate it well either, but 1. REAL PEOPLE CAN'T QUEERBAIT. PERIOD., 2. harry's identity, being unlabeled, IS A VALID QUEER IDENTITY, being mspec is valid, and he owes that definition to absolutely NO ONE. plus, you can identify as multigender attracted even if you've never had relationships with people of other genders/besides the opposite sex (which we don't know and it's not our business), 3. playing with fashion in a gender fluid/sexuality bending way is not "baiting," we should normalize this, including for cis straight men, it's beneficial at not boxing people into the binary. wearing a dress or sequins is not "using" the queer community, and moreover, it IS a part of harry's identity expression! the so-called "queer performance" is just harry existing as a person!, 4. being an ally and openly accepting of queer people and having them on your team and counting them among your friend group and embracing queer fans on their journeys is also NOT BAITING, it's being a decent and inclusive human being (this point gets thrown at taylor too, it's insane. should she just not be an ally at all then? make it make sense), 5. queer people supporting someone and feeling safe and held in their atmosphere is a net positive and not dependent on that artists' own sexuality to make that real. it just drives me bonkers, and it's gotten SO bad and out of hand this year. i'm still mad that the new york times allowed that piece to be published that basically stated he owes his label to us because we buy tickets/albums. that's...not how any of this works, and it's completely dehumanizing of him as a person and of his individual experience. biting chomping

reddit has sadly become a haven for the worst negativity/cruelty, i used to enjoy popheads and the TS sub (i haven't been on the HS sub in a long time), but both are kind of unbearable now. it's wild to me how mean-spirited and dismissive they are of...artists that directly appeal to their interests...? i get very frustrated at this because it's mostly snideness/elitism and i hate that attitude 🥴

the good thing is, stan circles are not reflective of most people's opinions, or of the regard of the industry itself. harry has gained a LOT of support and esteem from his peers, and from bona fide music legends (stevie nicks notably, but she's far from the only one). hs3 was met with positivity and acclaim, and it was clearly successful with the general public. stan twitter (and reddit is basically an extension of it now) thrives on toxicity, unfortunately, but in opposition to that, he is very well-liked and highly thought of where it counts. there's this confusing thing where coming from a "boy band" puts this barrier up where you're not taken seriously and keep having to prove yourself (which is silly in itself, if you listen to 1D, especially mm, four, and mitam, the talent and growth in songcraft from the boys is already clear). so he's had that uphill battle to be taken seriously, which should've been proven the minute he released SOTT, but i think he feels a lot more confident and creatively free now. the people who hate on him are most often being narrow-minded, have preconceived notions of dismissal in their minds, and aren't willing to listen to the music, or to harry himself, in depth (this all also applies to taylor, and it's only in the past couple of years that she's finally been treated more widely with respect for her artistic merit, even though she's deserved it from the start), and at the end of the day, it's their loss and they're much more miserable being that way than we are enjoying the art, or than he is as he continues to thrive. he's still got so much potential ahead of him. if he keeps putting out quality work, and i have no reason to think he won't, i believe with time more respect and recognition of his artistry will come, at least from the people who matter.

[alarrytale]

Hi Marte! Do you think Charlie Puth is queerbaiting? I try to give him the benefit of the doubt that maybe he's closeted but he went above and beyond to bait gay men, it's insane. After his hype died down years ago I'm pretty sure it's the gays who kept his career afloat, along with him duetting with artists who have dedicated fanbases. The gays invested so much time and $$$ into him and they made up most of his fanbase. I saw a tweet about his engagement to a woman and they were devastated and in disbelief. He played them so hard and he did it for years. It's hard to explain unless you've actually seen all his content but he really went above and beyond, and I see some people defend him and say that he just posted sexy pics but that doesn't even touch on all the things he did. He knew what he was doing and he actually convinced them that he's one of them, for years, and then got engaged to a woman. I want to give him the benefit of the doubt but I'm so skeptical. What he did was pretty cruel, no wonder they have trust issues lol.

Hi, anon!

I know literally nothing about the dude, apart from surface level observations. So with that in mind, here is what i see.

I see someone who has had a couple of hit songs, but is struggling to maintain a steady and growing fandom and to keep up engagement. I see someone who, to get attention on himself, started to cater to queers by either queerbaiting or thirst-trapping (depending if you think he's queer or not). What he's doing isn't subtle at all, let's all agree on that. He's been in a relationship with a woman for years and is now engaged to her.

The thing is, he might be bi/pan. If he is, then he's not queerbaiting. I'm pretty sure he's not gay (i don't see why he'd need to get into a lavender marriage). If he was queer i'd expect to see, in addition to thirst-trapping, queercoding, song lyrics alluding to him not being straight, the use of gender neutral language in interviews and/or rumours/blinds about him not being straight. I haven't seen or heard any of that from or about him (but again, suface level knowledge here).

It's also of note that all the queerbaiting/thirst-trapping started when he wasn't performing as great as before on the charts and struggling to keep a fandom. I also find it unusual that he's thirst-trapping and so incredibly full on, if he's closeted and wants to keep being closeted. There is no subtlety here. If he is bi/pan and in a relationship with a woman, but trying thirst-trap men in particular, i think it should be frowned upon. He isn't queerbaiting, but as you say, gay men who picks up on the symbolism and the metaphors and everything he's alluding to, will feel used. Behaviour like this will create more trust issues and fuel more queerbaiting accusations.

So, based on all that, i'm leaning towards queerbaiting with the disclaimer that i know next to nothing about him. If someone who knows him beyond surface level wants to chime in or can refute all this, i'm open to hearing your thoughts.

[troglobite]

here's what i have to say: (phrased very bluntly and rudely and definitely quite mean, bc my entire body hurts and i'm stressed out [for unrelated reasons] and i feel strongly abt this so i'm being snarky--this is all said w me like, laughing in disbelief lol)

(roman don't read this bc MAJOR spoilers and also Nonsense that i don't want you Poisoned by lol)

(in case it wasn't obvious this is abt t/d l/sso)

i was 10000000% right, they were NEVER going to end up together, WHAT SHOW WERE YOU WATCHING that you thought THAT was endgame???? literally. what is wrong w you.

like i'm sorry. but no. in no universe.

you used your marvel-rotted brains and saw OH STRAIGHT WHITE MALE PROTAGONIST AND HOT WHITE FEMALE PROTAGONIST!!! and concluded THEY MUST FUCK!!!!!!

and the show? what did it give you?

rebecca literally gagging at the thought of ted having sex

ted repeatedly calling her boss

both of them replicating deep signs and behaviors of friendship with each other

neither of them complimenting each others' appearance or ogling

every opportunity for ~something to happen~ being thwarted or shown to be something else

them talking to each other abt their romantic or sexual entanglements with other people

they, at NO point, were anything other than deeply loving platonic friends.

and their friendship MATTERED! they were exactly who the other needed. they loved and supported each other. they were platonic soulmates, an incredible bond.

and that is IMPORTANT. their relationship is wonderful! it's one of the hearts/central points of the show!

but in NO UNIVERSE was it EVER going to be romantic or sexual

the show said that about 50000000 times

literally the thought hadn't even entered my brain until it was POISONED by seeing ppl talk in the tag abt how obsessed they were.

and i was like "oh okay yeah i guess i get ppl who wanna ship it, sure" but then y'all thought it was fucking canon and endgame????

every episode i lived in fear bc as a queer person w extreme media literacy and critical thinking skills, i have been burnt many a time by a sudden straight relationship that makes no sense.

but i KNEW this show wouldn't do that. it's antithetical to its stated intent and ethos. its entire thematic messaging would be completely counter to them ending up together.

and that fakeout at the beginning of the finale?

was meant to drive that point home.

do you REALLY think, in a show where characters were confirmed queer, got to have relationships and kiss and be happy, and the triad of roy/keeley/jamie was demonstrated so clearly but put on the "not yet" train bc roy still needed to figure his shit out--

you think THAT SHOW would make fun of shippers and not just subvert a really old basicass fucking boring lousy nonsensical trope?

you think they were mocking YOU?

only by proxy!

they were mocking the boringass shitty fucking garbageass lousy fucking TROPES that EVERY PIECE OF MEDIA RELIES ON.

they said "ha that'd be fucking insane, right? right. which is why it didn't happen."

and the fakeout only worked bc we're all so POISONED by that horseshit in other media.

it wasn't personal.

you are not a maligned oppressed group for misreading 3 seasons of a brilliantly written show and convincing yourself something that was NEVER IN THE CARDS was EVER GOING TO HAPPEN.

that's not their fault. it's yours.

calm the fuck down, get over it. you misunderstood the entire show, and i can run you through it point by point.

but y'all were so convinced by fandom that you fucking misinterpreted VERY CLEAR BODY LANGUAGE AND ACTING in scenes to think that they were romantic.

and like the reason i'm being ~so mean~ about this?

i'm a queer person who has loved queer relationships on television for YEARS. i'm a lesbian, dude. the bury your gays trope started w tragic lesbians.

you wanna talk about "ship baiting"?

the term you're looking for is QUEERBAITING and shows did it ALL THE TIME bc queer fandom is powerful and rabid.

if we got even a HINT or CLUE that something could maybe possibly eventually sort of implied to have happened we'd go fucking nuts.

and they used us. blatantly. shows that got churned out quickly and had a lot of fan interaction [stares pointedly at You Know Who, famous on this fucking webbed site] did it ON PURPOSE. they baited. they laughed. they mocked. they USED us for our money and our free promotion.

and then they laughed at us and made everyone straight, even when the relationships made no sense.

this?

this is you misunderstanding a show, ignoring everything it was telling you, getting hooked on the most boring fucking romantic relationship POSSIBLE in a show that was about SUBVERTING EXPECTATIONS and that lovingly supported queer people and relationships--

and then getting angry when the boring straight relationship that was never going to happen DIDN'T HAPPEN.

they didn't mock you in interviews.

hannah and jason talk all the time about how important their relationship is and how much ted and rebecca mean to each other.

hannah even interacted w shit online abt scenes between the two of them

bc there is love there--platonic love. DEEP platonic love.

in a lot of ways, rebecca and beard have similar relationships w ted. and i love that. it's beautiful.

and it SUBVERTS EVERY EXPECTATION AND TROPE to NOT have them end up together, and to spend 3 seasons not giving ANY weight to that "possibility" or idea.

once again, until i checked online to see what ppl were saying abt colin this season, i had NO IDEA ppl thought they'd end up together.

hi, i have a MA in english lit. i have done film studies. i obsessively analyze media. if i had the wherewithal, i'd write more essays for fun.

i know what i'm fucking talking abt.

so you have no IDEA the sheer SATISFACTION and RELIEF and JOY i felt at seeing them say "this? nope, sorry. would make no sense in this show."

if i had never heard of y'all shipping them, and went into the finale without that poison, i would seen the opening scene and gone "what the fuck? i wonder what happened? this is weird lol"

and then they'd reveal it and i go "OHHHH okay got it haha lol that was funny"

and it matters to me bc ppl in fandom think they're an oppressed fucking class and you're just not. you're not.

you're borrowing the shit from the times when fandom spaces were a lot abt close readings of shows and being like "why are they doing this if Character isn't queer? what the fuck?" and getting invested.

and the actors and writers ~teasing~ oh MAYYYYBE it'll happen! you'll have to keep watching! knowing full well it never would.

you and your misreading of 3 seasons of a show are not at fault and are not the same thing as deliberate queerbaiting. i'm sorry, it's not.

and i'm also not even that sorry.

i'm frustrated and irritating w y'all.

that was a GREAT season/series finale. it was sweet and silly and satisfying and bittersweet and lovely.

it knew EXACTLY what its thematic throughlines were, and delivered on them.

your shippy mindsets and obsessions w relationships are symptomatic of being unable or unwilling to engage w the themes.

do i ship ted and trent? hell yeah, i think that would've been fun, surprising, and cute as hell.

but i love their relationship for what it is and it made sense and i just really enjoyed it.

and my point is this

roy and keeley didn't end up together BECAUSE ROY WAS NOT READY FOR A RELATIONSHIP.

he HAD reasons to end it! he felt he was holding keeley back! he thought he wasn't good enough for her! things were fine between them and they could've talked about it--but he chose not to. he chose to curl up in a ball, NOT talk about his feelings, NOT give keeley any agency, and end the relationship.

the entirety of season 3 he was expressing his insecurities and feeling inadequate in MANY ways.

and here at the end, his immaturity and jealousy came rearing their ugly heads.

even his argument w jamie clearly laid out how jamie had grown and he hadn't.

and roy finally decided to figure out what was going on for him, so he could grow and improve.

but he and jamie and keeley are still friends. the show said "we see you--and yes, absolutely. but not yet. they haven't quite worked out their demons as the three of them, yet, and roy in particular has a long way to go. but in the meantime, they still all love each other." and i LOVE that.

they really said "look, to stick w the themes and ethos of this show, we can't just stick them together--though we'd love to. roy has too many hangups right now, and we don't have the time for that. his journey was about realizing he needed to look INWARD. and that's a whole journey on its own, now that he has."

what is this, a fucking shakespearean comedy where it's only a happy ending if everybody gets fucking married at the end?

come on.

also beard and jane ARE NOT IN AN ABUSIVE OR TOXIC RELATIONSHIP.

you realize that beard matches jane, crazy for crazy, right? they have the Same Fucking Energy. and they LOVE each other.

she didn't abuse him. was she obsessive and weird? yeah.

and they talked abt it in the show.

but they STOPPED talking abt it bc at some point, clearly she and beard FUCKING FIGURED IT OUT.

people were worried abt them--but he was fine, they were fine. beard's version of fine is fucking batshit.

he faked appendicitis to get off the plane.

"BUT SHE SHREDDED HIS PASSPORT!!!"

yeah and beard DIDN'T WANT TO LEAVE, ANYWAY. and i'm sure she KNEW he had more!

how much you wanna bet she did it in front of him while they were talking abt the fact that he didn't wanna leave but didn't wanna abandon ted? like come on.

i KNEW beard was going to stay behind.

ted's work was done.

but everyone else had found their homes, and ted had to return home.

that's the other thing

how do you see ALL OF THOSE WIZARD OF OZ REFERENCE, AND NOT KNOW THAT TED IS GOING TO RETURN HOME?!?!

his ending is WONDERFUL, bc this entire show had SO MUCH TO SAY ABOUT PARENTHOOD!

he didn't know how to be a dad or a partner, he was AFRAID of failing his son. he has SO MANY ISSUES bc of what his dad did.

and he finally faced them and realized he needed to work them out WHILE BEING THERE FOR HENRY.

this was telegraphed from EPISODE ONE of the whole show, and ESPECIALLY episode one of season three!

THIS IS NOT A SURPRISE. IT NEVER WAS. IT WAS ALWAYS THE PLAN.

and even THIS subverts expectations! ppl think oh wow he did amazing, why leave?

because while this was great, IT IS NOT HIS LIFE'S WORK OR HIS HOME.

and that's okay!

this show says just bc you're good at something and enjoy it doesn't mean it has to be your entire life. you don't have to sacrifice everything for one thing or for happiness.

you deserve to prioritize. and if your priorities are family, you deserve that.

ted's priorities were carrying the legacy of what he learned from his parents--never wanting to leave someone behind.

everyone at richmond is going to be fine without him. his work was done.

but henry is his son FOR LIFE. his responsibility there is FOR LIFE. and he refuses to quit. to give up. to walk away.

he didn't do that to richmond--his work was complete.

but now he has to go be there for henry.

and i LOVE that.

and now he knows soccer so well he can coach it for his son! how wonderful and fun is that!

he took what he learned and brought it home.

and this show left a few things up in the air, too, which i really found interesting!

i mean at this point i'm just talking abt the finale in general, but the point here is this--

someone said on twitter that them not ending up together didn't make sense "dramaturgically"

and first of all i don't think you know what that actually fucking means or what a dramaturg is so like. kindly sit down and shut up.

and second.

the only way you think that this ending for the show doesn't make sense is if you were never paying attention in the first place.

this show trusted us to pay attention, to read the subtext, to understand everyone's internal emotional journeys.

and sometimes it was a little unclear or could've been more obvious, and sometimes it was CRYSTAL clear.

but if you're looking at this show--THIS SHOW of ALL shows!!!--through the lens of tropey nonsense and cliches from other media, you're going to be wrong Every Fucking Time.

all that romcom stuff on this show?

it never actually ended up like a real romcom, in case you didn't notice.

if you all thought the romcom talk was going to end up in ted and rebecca getting together, you fundamentally misunderstood WHY and HOW it was using and referencing romcoms.

and part of it was to say--why is a romantic relationship the only happy ending?

and also it was to say--

why is a "happy" ending the only option when LIFE STILL GOES ON?

ted's ending was happy because he has a whole life ahead with henry to look forward to. he's HAPPY.

that's the definition of a happy fucking ending.

and what i loved about rebecca's ending?

she realized--the team, her friends, everyone around her? THAT is her family. she decided to not leave them behind just because ted was leaving. she knew her purpose. she felt FULFILLED.

and then and ONLY then did the universe say

"ah, wonderful. here's a gift for you, just to put some icing on top."

and i thought that was WONDERFUL.

she didn't need a husband and daughter to be fulfilled.

she was ALREADY fulfilled--and that desire was still there in her, and the show/universe said, as a gift, as a bonus, here's this, too. you don't NEED them to be happy, but you should have this, as well. just for you.

i loved the framing of that.

and by the way--that matches up with roy.

he doesn't feel fulfilled or satisfied. he looks for it in other people. you're allowed to BE fulfilled and satisfied by relationships, and to want them, PERIOD.

but roy was looking outward instead of inward. so putting him in a relationship--especially a three-way one where he'd INEVITABLY be jealous and even MORE closed off--would be counter to what he needed to learn and had already learned.

he needed to do the growing that rebecca had already shown she'd done.

it just makes sense.

i really enjoyed the finale.

also colin got to kiss his fella ☺️💜

all right, that's it.

i don't always say this but it applies now: y'all were wrong, your interpretations were wrong, you were watching the show wrong--you were just plain wrong.

if you still wanna, for funsies, think it would be hot or fun if they got together in fanfic, go for it! that's what i thought it WAS at first.

but fundamentally, y'all misunderstood the show from start to end

and i can't really abide that

bc this show was BRILLIANT throughout

and that tells me you missed basically everything it was trying to tell you if the thing you're most caught up on was fucking THIS.

i love to be right 😎

[avelera]

Why "Our Flag Means Death" Should Teach Media Creators to Stop Queerbaiting the Fans that Made them Rich

If Our Flag Means Death continues to match and even exceed "Ted Lasso" levels of sleeper-hit/word of mouth popularity, it'll confirm a theory I've had for a long time that Hollywood has vastly underestimated how many of their A-List hit movies and stars rose to mainstream popuarity because of fandom and queer culture.

Like, look, obviously I'm super biased as someone who has been in fandom since I was a pre-teen, but I've strongly believed for some time that shows and actors who really get pushed over the edge from "popular" to "super-duper mega-hit that no one saw coming bonkers fame" often owe their rise to the high-octane energy that comes with fandom and queer people shipping two of the main characters in a same-sex relationship. Some examples:

Xena - As an early example (though honestly, you could put X-Files here as a straight version of the same phenomenon) would we even be hearing about this show today if not for the Xena/Gabrielle shippers? I mean, I'm sure the show was good for some value of 90s episodic action show "good", but I'd be willing to put a significant amount of money down that queer kids suddenly realizing something about themselves and going absolutely apeshit over those two gave it popularity and longevity other similar shows in its genre did not enjoy.

Supernatural - I mean, need I say more? Urban fantasy/horror shows are a dime a dozen-plus it's literally one of dozens of procedural shows with arguably the only unique quality in the first season being it's a couple hot guys with a muscle car. But add the early Sam/Dean shippers and the later frothing fandom around the Destiel will they/won't they shipping and you have a season count and popularity that dwarfs other similar shows in its class.

BBC Sherlock - literally catapulted Martin Freeman and the now ubiquitous, Oscar-nominated Hollywood darling Benedict Cumberbatch from near-obscurity to absolutely dizzying levels of fame. After that show, A-List directors like Peter Jackson had to wait their turn to get these guys into their movies. Sure, S1 Sherlock was fresh and cool in ways that should be appreciated but I don't think I'm being a totally biased fangirl to say what fueled the word-of-mouth insanity over the show was fans hoping John and Sherlock would end up together, especially given early buzz and interviews with the creators that intimated that they were more open to the idea than many past reimaginers of Sherlock Holmes.

"But Avelera," you might say, "Didn't these shows queerbait the shit out of their audiences? Didn't they basically drop breadcrumbs through their episodes and interviews teasing queer people with the possibility of these couples going canon and then openly laugh at them when they got their hopes up?"

Yeah! And that's what actually makes me a little insane about all this! For the longest time it felt like shows like BBC Sherlock and Supernatural in particular were aware of the fact that some percentage of the fandom driving their shows into popularity and their actors into worldwide recognition did so because of slash shipping, but for some fucking baffling reason they decided that the straight cis male audience was the one they couldn't risk alienating! Now, sure, I know straight cis men who were fans of Sherlock and Supernatural but let me tell you, those guys weren't watching that show 100x in a row! They weren't signing petitions for more seasons or evangelizing it to everyone they met. They watched the show, liked it well enough, and moved on. Plenty of shows appeal to just those guys and get canceled after a couple seasons, and yet they're still treated as some kind of gold standard for the audience to chase.

So it was kind of insanely infuriating to have these creators openly laugh at the slash fans that, it was my suspicion, weren't just a portion of their fanbase but actually driving the engagement. And where I get especially insane is my conviction that these creators just didn't have the data at their disposal to really understand that the people they were mocking weren't an audience they could risk throwing away. They were still so entrenched in the idea of keeping the mainstream happy and the idea that the mainstream preferred shallow straight relationships over the main shipped pair getting together that they treated their core base as the aberrant fringe and the aberrant fringe who really wouldn't even notice if they got canceled as if it was the core base.

Because who the fuck was watching Supernatural after however goddamn many seasons except insane shipper fans holding out a shred of hope that once the mainstream lost interest they might get more than scraps off the table? Who was clamoring for multiple seasons of Sherlock on the promise that they might see some fulfillment? Who still remembers Xena fondly and not just as some silly mindless 90s show? It's the queer/fandom fans, I truly believe this even if it might just be me seeing everything through the lens of being in that subculture.

There is no more talk about making BBC Sherlock after the final spitting in the face of the queer fans that the last season did, the fans burnt out on getting strung along. Even shows that are more queer-friendly but still resist onscreen confirmation (Good Omens you are on thin fucking ice but I'll give you S2 to stop dancing around the issue trying to appease all your perceived audiences) are seeing frustration directed towards them. Queer/fandom audiences are exhausted with being laughed at and jerked around and treated like the minority audience when they are in fact what drive these shows to worldwide recognition. They're not a bellwether or jumping on the wagon, they are the core audience.

And I think, if Our Flag Means Death continues to triumph in popularity, it will finally provide some quantification for exactly how much queer and fandom audiences really can be the difference between a show that's just one of many in its genre as far as audience engagement goes and shows that suddenly shoot into the stratosphere through word of mouth popularity. Sure, there will still be non-fandom, non-queer mega-hits that do very well too on sheer strength of quality and freshness (for example, Ted Lasso), but as an audience to aim to please instead of the one you just aim to string along so you can have your cake and eat it too, I hope OFMD serves as some kind of awakening.

[ineffably-human]

here's the thing about 'queerbaiting', something I still think doesn't exist:

there are queer couples all over the place in media these days. most of them are traditionally sexy young adults, because most romance writing is about traditionally sexy young adults. but you tend to know what you're getting within a season or two. there's a distinct lack of queer slow burns in the traditional rom-com sense where you don't immediately know where it's going. if you've got a queer romance, then you've got a queer romance. most of the fanfare I see when something long-term goes canon is from 'animation lesbians': Catradora, Bubbleline, Korrasami, because the idea that animation is for kids (and Catradora's whole...deal) put their endgame in question.

but please consider: part of that is because in a M/F rom-com you know if they're devoting a lot of screen time to these two people interacting, that's your couple, and there's no doubt. the slow burn is HOW it's gonna happen, unless the show truly changes its direction halfway through, which is rare.

in a potential queer romance that doesn't immediately pay off, half the intrigue is sitting and wondering: if the writers realize what they're doing, if they're doing it on purpose, if this or that thing is symbolic or a hidden message, if that thing they said out loud is a joke or taking the possibility seriously. it's the ultimate parasocial 'does he like me or LIKE like me?' because it's baked into the experience itself that a little part of you believes it might not happen. I guarantee that there was never something with Jim and Pam or Jake and Amy where the actors/writers said something romantic about them in an interview and everyone went 'omg!! they were insane for this!!!' because there's nothing 'insane' about it, and there's nothing 'insane' about doing it for a queer couple either. we just don't EXPECT it yet.

the thing that makes a queer will-they-won't-they exciting for you is the exact thing that makes a queer will-they-won't-they potentially heartbreaking. I'm not saying it's bad to want it, just - understand that the reason you're reacting to That Very Intense Friendship and not the larger and larger offering of unambiguously canon queer media is because the potential 'taboo' of a queer pairing is like a mobius strip.

and half the time we're retrofitting a pairing. we want to ship, we find something shippable, we hunt for potential hints and dynamics accordingly. we are literally working in a different language than a lot of straight writers, and off a different set of endorphin rushes and emotional payoffs than a lot of straight viewers.

I can name maybe four shows that actually understood they had a queer fanbase and leaned into that fanbase while having no intention of paying it off. and almost all of those shows are like a decade old or at least started that long ago. some of them even clearly, vocally said they weren't writing a romance, people just didn't believe them or hoped they'd changed their minds. please name what you consider a clear example of queerbaiting that isn't Sherlock, Supernatural, Teen Wolf, idk maybe Gotham? (except does that even count if one of the pair is canon queer and the problem is they weren't taken seriously? I did not watch or Tumblr-osmose as much about Gotham.) and for whatever show you're naming, did they ever actually promise or even hint at queerness to begin with?

(I have remembered Loki after already posting this but I am like...torn on Loki. they said Loki would be bi and he is bi. him not getting with a man after being bi is not queerbaiting. it's a person being bisexual. and Disney being boring.)

I promise: OFMD didn't invent gay people, and there are shows on this earth that aren't Supernatural. I love hunting for whether they're 'actually gonna do it' as much as the next person, but understand why that hits a sweet spot that immediately canon queer relationships don't.

[barbiegirldream]

I wanted to go laugh at the Google doc, but literally the first sentence cracked me up already "before hand I blocked them, anyways lets get into this, I think online psychoanalysing is fun" (paraphrased) like???? you good honey? blocking should me enough, normally you don't start psychoanalysing someone after you've blocked them. I hate the term but I think this whole doc is the definition of terminally online. I know the last 2 years of pandemic were though but to have minors online who think they a) need to justify their dislike of everything b) think trying to analyse someone instead of ignoring them is better and c) think resorting to make "call out docs" is an appropriate response to finding a blog you don't like.

I'm genuinely worried about how those people will cope when the lockdowns end. I know how impressionable I was at 13-17, and to have that formative period be this terminally online is just, worrying. this isn't even just about the person today, it's more of a general issue, tumblr and twitter. the amount of "callouts" I've seen that's literally just people being upset that not everyone shares their opinion and consumes media the same way is so so so concerning. you've got kids throwing around the words ableist, racist, sexist, etc. just because they are minors, poc, neurodivergent, etc. and someone was mean to them. I'm convinced 90% of kids on twitter alone don't know the correct definition of fascist, queerbaiting or anti black anymore since they got watered down and now thrown at everyone.

anyways, read the doc now and it's super insane. I fell asleep 2 hours before shit went down here so waking up to my dash laughing and clowning on Cyara being the second coming of Dream was pretty funny

Exactly this. Listen to minorities when they talk about their experiences turned into minorities are experts on everything to do with the politics of said minority they are simply by nature of fitting into the group.

Which no. I fully believe that kid who’s neurodivergent and watched some YouTube videos actually thinks they’re qualified to talk about that stuff which they are not.

Or for example on Tumblr let’s talk Queer kids. You’re fourteen you join Tumblr. Someone tells you if you don’t come out you’re not really apart of the community (almost certainly a conservative in disguise)

You struggle with a label if you say pan people with no understanding of queer history other than what they read on Wikipedia comes in to tell you you’re biphobic. You now agree you’re bi and make sure to harass pan people.

You see people talking about gender and a woman tells you they’re lying and trying to take advantage and you believe them. Oh good news you’re a terf now.

Like it’s absolutely ridiculous how easy it is for kids to fall down these rabbit holes and not be able to identify malicious intent.

Take Dream and George even they flirt and people argue that since they haven’t come out as gay it’s wrong and they’re bad people. They will never ever tell you why they think they are owed a coming out. (Probably just so they can pick the best slurs) or why they think only gay people can behave a certain way and straight guys have to behave a different way (conservative terf energy at its best)

So yeah being apart of a community doesn’t make you an expert on said community.