#IN/SECTS Vol.13

[twilightarc-gm]

Added Context: Shixiongdi When One is Shifu's Son.

We all like sad Jiang Cheng, yes? Let me introduce to something that was clarified to me today:

When it comes to the children of the shifu, the age is what determines what "shi-" term the kid is called, so the order of disciples gets bumped up or down as a result. Whereas if there are no children, the order that the disciple started determines the numeric order, regardless of age--so a shixiong can be younger in age than a shidi.

So for example:

We have 5 shixiongdi, the 5th is 13 years old and is the son of shifu. Then a new disciple calls shifu master, but he's 14. So the new disciple would be the new 5th place shixiong and shifu's son becomes liu-shidi.

Now please consider this bit from Vol 3 Chap 15

“Shidi, shidi, lemme in. Please, I wanna sleep.” With his back against the door inside, Jiang Cheng yelled, “Who’s your shidi?! Give me back Feifei, Moli, and Xiao-ai!”

Not only did his dogs get taken from him, Jiang Cheng literally got demoted when Wei Ying entered the sect.

🥺 I just think it's so sad. I'm glad he gets Wei Ying and they get along later, but that moment has to be pretty hard for a lil 8-9 year old who was already being taught for a few years that he'd be da-shixiong. Y'know, hierarchy being as important as it is, and all.

[miaoqing]

(some of) the times Shen Jiu was an asshole to Binghe

(these are excerpts from chapters 1, 19, and the SQQ&YQY extra ONLY. There's definitely more but I feel like this amount gets the points across lol + addresses some of the things people most often "forget")

chapter 1

pg 2

“Shen Qingqiu was jealous of Luo Binghe’s unparalleled and exceptional talent, and he secretly feared his disciple, whose cultivation improved by leaps and bounds every day. He always found new ways to demean Luo Binghe, even enlisting the boy’s peers to belittle him. Throughout these years of studying, Luo Binghe endured every humiliation.”

pg 11

“Where is Luo Binghe?”

(...)

Yue Qingyuan sighed. “I know you don’t like him. But that child’s already worked hard enough, and he hasn’t made any significant mistakes. Don’t punish him any further, all right?”

(...)

“Whenever you finish stringing him up and beating him, haven’t you always shut him in the woodshed?”

pg 12

“Why was he so unable to tolerate the main character no matter how innocuous his behavior, and why did he spend day in and day out scheming up new torments for him, even getting others to do so in his place?”

pg 13

“Whenever Shen Qingqiu had called for Luo Binghe in the past, he’d always referred to him as “that little beast,” “ungrateful brat," "this wretch,” or “whelp”.”

pg 20

"It meant they had also passed the incident where Luo Binghe’s fellow Qing Jing Peak disciples had pummeled him en masse, as well as the incident where he’d “backtalked” Shizun and been strung up and beaten, in addition to the incident where he’s ruined the peak’s talismans and been punished with hard labor…”

chapter 19

“What the original flavor cared about more than anything else in life was his cultivation. (...) Otherwise he wouldn’t have hated and envied Luo Binghe to the point of insanity.”

---

“Shen Qingqiu saw three things on the original flavor’s face: envy, envy, and more envy. Envy that Luo Binghe had a mother who was “the kindest in all the world to him,” envy of Luo Binghe’s talent, envy that Luo Binghe would enter Cang Qiong Mountain Sect at the best age for cultivating. He was indeed the kind of person to brim with envy and resentment toward a young child. Shen Jiu stood and walked over to Luo Binghe, his steps measured. (...) Shen Jiu casually tossed the tea in his hand, cup and lid and all, onto Luo Binghe.

The tea wasn’t freshly boiled, the temperature only hot instead of scalding, but Luo Binghe’s entire person still froze, stunned.

Ming Fan’s footsteps padded after Shen Jiu, who’d walked out of the Bamboo House without a second word, hands behind his back. But before the former stepped out the door, he yelled behind him, “Kneel! Shizun hasn’t allowed you to get up. If you dare get up, be warned that you’ll be strung up and beaten, and after the beating, you’ll be shut in the woodshed for three days!”

SQQ&YQY extra:

“Luo Binghe was using the incorrect cultivation manual that Shen Qingqiu had handed him*; he should have long since died bleeding from the seven apertures, his body rupturing down to his bones, skin, meridians, tendons, and flesh.”

*ch. 1 vol 1: "The cultivation manual Ming Fan had given Luo Binghe was a fake"

ETA: ch. 2 vol 1: "Shen Qingqiu had inspired Ming Fan to give Luo Binghe a fake cultivation manual"

[incarnadinedreams]

This scene from the novel doesn't get nearly enough recognition when it comes to appreciating Wei Wuxian's dedication to premium, individualized, no-shortcuts torture.

Jiang "I'm only 3 months into this sect leadership thing and already can't imagine having the free time & energy" Cheng vs. Wei "only artisanal, handcrafted, bespoke torture made from scratch will do" Wuxian:

"Were you the one who has been killing Wen sect disciples?" Lan Wangji asked.

"Of course," Wei Wuxian replied.

"I knew it," Jiang Cheng said. "Why did you kill them one at a time? That's so much work."

"It's fun, toying with them until they die," Wei Wuxian explained. "Exterminating them right away is letting them off too easily. Kill them one at a time, one slow slice after another. Force them all to watch it happen. Needless to say, I haven't tortured Wen Chao enough yet. As for Wen Zhuliu... he owed Wen Ruohan a debt of kindness for his recognition. So much so that he changed his surname to join the Wen Clan and carried out Wen Ruohan's orders to protect his precious little son."

Wei Wuxian sneered.

"Since he wants to protect him, I want to make him watch all the more. Give him a front-row seat to watch Wen Chao deteriorate beyond recognition in his hands, little by little, until he becomes neither human nor ghost."

His smile was sinister, cruel, and cheerful in equal measure.

--Ch. 13, Vol. 3, 7S translation (ch. 62 of the original novel)

As much as I love Jiang Cheng, I think it's clear that on this topic Wei Wuxian is superior in his detail-oriented and thoughtfully considered approach. It's like comparing a Michelin starred chef to a TV dinner. True craftsmanship is always something that deserves appreciation.

[duckprintspress]

My July Reads

Life was just too crazy, chaotic, and exhausting for me to get much reading done in July, but I managed to get through at least a few graphic novels and such...

My July Reads:

Solo Leveling Vol. 3 to 7 by Chugong (a manwha series set in modern fantasy Korea, about a young man is terrible at “hunting”…until he isn’t)

Many Hands: An Anthology of Polyamorous Erotica (our latest anthology! a collection of short stories that's exactly what it says on the tin.)

Blackwater by Jeannette Arroyo and Ren Graham (graphic novel, modern with magic, two high school boys, one trans, each with their own challenges, bond over the mysterious creature in the woods)

Blue Flag Vol. 3 to 5 by Kaito (manga series about modern high school and a young man and his best friend - who has a crush on him - and a young woman and her best friend - who has a crush on her. poly vibes.)

For the Love of God, Marie! by Jade Sarson (graphic novel, historical to modern, a bi poly woman explores relationships and goes through life and deals with homophobia from the 60s to the 90s)

Silent Hearts Vol. 2 by Jing Shui Bian (novel, danmei/BL, modern high school to college setting, a group of young people, about half of whom are disabled, grow up together and achieve their dreams)

Yona of the Dawn Vol. 2 by Mizuho Kusanagi (manga, fantasy, about a young princess whose kingdom gets taken over by someone she thought a friend)

Thousand Autumns Vol. 5 by Meng Xi Shi (novel, danmei/BL, historical wuxia, the leader of a demonic sect decides it'd be fun to fuck with the fallen leader of a daoist sect, hijinks, mischief, politics, and feels ensue)

My Hero Academia Vol. 13 to 14 by Kohei Horikoshi (manga series about teenagers at a high school for superheroes)

Haikyu! Vol. 7 by Haruichi Furudate (manga series about young men who play high school volleyball)

The Secret to Superhuman Strength by Alison Bechdel (graphic novel memoir about Bechdel's exploration of fitness as a way of finding a form of transcendence.)

Sunhead by Alex Assan (graphic novel, modern, two high school girls bond over shared love of a Twilight-esque pop novel, set in Tel Aviv)

Not sure I'll manage to read much more in August, to be honest - it's an exceptionally busy month. Summer with kids not in school is tough. But I've got a bunch of library books I'm risking returning late so I gotta at least tackle those.

Y'all read anything interesting?

[dailycass-cain]

Batgirls #14 Review

After so long, after so much waiting (and hyping), Batgirls #14 was released this week. So let me dig into it at last.

Let me start off (again) for those who didn't on the visual element where the silent issue started, G.I. Joe #21 by Larry Hama (with Steve Leialoha inking and George Roussos coloring).

The issue was the benchmark for telling a story without any words. Really, I think it's something other comic historians can tell in more detail in itself.

Surprisingly Barbara beat Cass to the punch in even attaining one as the character had one in Batgirl: Endgame #1 back in 2015 during the middle of the Burnside Era.

There are a lot of visual cues that the issue shares with Batgirl #14 (there are onomatopoeias and there is "cheating" as well with Babs using a phone along (using emojis to correspond with Frankie and find Tiffany Fox) and one-word balloon (at the very end).

Overall, it's probably (for me) the best Babs as Batgirl issue of the entire 2011-2020 era.

Cass had a few things close to this (Batman & Robin Eternal #13 has some moments of silence allowing the action and Cass's visual cues to tell the story) but never full-on.

The closest we got to this was Batgirl Vol. 1 #22,  where writer Kelley Puckett would just allow artist Damion Scott to do his thing showcasing the action along with emotion within the issue.

But that was the closest we got until well Batgirls #14. That's why I'm hyped for this because it's a story element I think a character like Cass can truly shine in. Not only that, but pair the character with an artist to visually showcase this as well.

To that degree, Batgirls #14 succeeds HIGHLY in. This is the best issue of the series (thus far) culminating in five issues prior to it and highlighting all the elements I mentioned.

Artist Jonathan Case takes that banner and lays out a visual feast on this issue. There are SOOOO many moments that are so extraordinary. Case packs a TON of detail and emotion in each panel with the plot he's given.

Likewise, I think writers Michael Conrad and Becky Cloonan did a real job in laying it all the seeds they've had prior in the series (from Riddler's lingering riddles playing how Cass fully figured out where Cluemaster was hiding with Steph's letter being the final nail).

There's a great urgency Case captures with Cass throughout the issue. She knows (given the last issue of her being in the peril Steph's in) how bad the situation is.

Hence no contacting Babs, Bruce, or anyone. This is Cass ON A MISSION. I do like how this issue ties into Batgirls 2022 Annual how the League is behind Cluemaster's resurrection). For what intended purpose? Who knows? Other than it brought back one "father of the year" in Cluemaster. It almost makes me wonder if the leader of this sect of the League that has broken off (and who have Lazarus Resin) is being led by the other aka David Cain.

I mean it feels weird that the last issue kind of "forgot" he was more the monster here than Shiva, who kind of equally was manipulated by him. Showcasing that truly monstrous side we heard he was until Cass made him discover the heart he had.

I just think it would be an interesting parallel of Cass caught between two parents. Not only that but have this be the final closure of Shiva and the League.

Though I do confess it was fun seeing Shiva help her daughter against these ninjas and have a "mom" moment. With Cass having an "I could've handled that or GEEZ MOM!  Can we tone down the murder PLEASE?!"

Again I just love Case's use of colors to showcase the various moods being played out from violent red to calm cool blue.

I get it Case went all out on this issue. Literally, in just two issues he's made the um-- case why in just two issues how he's become THE artist for the book that many probably would want back (please bring him back for more DC PLEASE!).

I ain't complain about the moments that made no sense because Case just made it look so darn visually appealing.

But I will go into the big thing this issue did sort of break in silence with Steph's letter to Cass.  Because oh boy does it have some ramifications for Cass/Steph.

Though I'll fully admit I didn't mind the letter. You knew Cass was going to open the letter first when the concept was introduced in Batgirls 2022 Annual and you pieced that Steph was getting kidnapped in solicitations to this one. Just what were the words that were in it?

Steph full on admitting she had feelings for Cass and loved her.😮😮😮 Yeah, this does change the next step between the two. The question is--

What will come from this? Well, either it's downplayed, but I doubt it, as I think we don't have Cass's letter or if you have the Lazarus Resin in play means more emotional drama will soon occur.  Or it is, and extended further down the road...

Though I think we already know Cass's response to the letter as we have her creating a scarf from ripping the fabric of Steph's cloaks. Which is a totally in-character Cass thing to do.

But yeah, this is the best issue of the entire series. Even if Steph is the damsel in distress. From her letter, it still gives some much-needed characterization that's been growing with Steph. Along with well both moving more out of Babs' shadow.

Literally, Cass doesn't even go to Babs for any sort of help. It really showcases how different in tone this issue is compared to say Batgirls #1-6 and the preludes to it. These gals can handle things themselves.

Plus I did like the Tutor tease AGAIN which is well suggesting another future story of the original villain from this series.

Yeah, this was an exceptional issue of the series. It really is a strong contender for the best solo Cass story already for 2023. The art is just phenomenal. The story is gripping. Everything just connects.

It might not be fully "new reader" friendly.  I mean unless you read Batgirls #9-13, the 2022 Annual, AND Task Force Z maxi series (to at least understand the Lazarus Resin).

But you can just enjoy it for what the issue was. Reading the other stuff is an added bonus to add more to the reading experience.

I'm just amazed it took fourteen issues and we have the first real standout. Like literally, there's nothing I can nitpick at all. This issue is absolute perfection and everything I hoped this series would be.

My only fear is well-- where do you go from here? I mean that is the series biggest problem that it hasn't gotten a single artist down. It just rotating between three (so far).

Though I do love Neil Googe but Robbi Rodriguez is hit or miss for me. The book needs someone who can stay longer. Even if though it took a while man the Case issues (#13-14) were just another level of art.

I dare even to say they surpassed Jorge Corona's stuff from the prior six issues (and prelude). #14 just leaves me hungering for more Case art for this series. I'd love to see him tackle a Steph issue next.

I mean I love this stuff with what he did for Cass but it be nice to contrasting colors for Steph.

But yeah, Batgirls #14 was exceptional. A perfect celebration of the character (and history) of Cassandra Cain. Where it did it's own thing and represents a major point in this series.

Where does the series go from here? I'm really curious to see. No matter where this series goes, #14 is probably going to be the #1 highlight for many of the series.

So yeah Batgirls #14 in a quick summary:

[mrlnsfrt]

Your Sins are Forgiven

"The miracle of salvation has to be the greatest miracle of all, for it meets the greatest need, brings the greatest results (and they last forever), and cost the greatest price"  -- Warren W. Wiersbe, The Bible Exposition Commentary, vol. 1 p.199

An invitation for a meal.

Then one of the Pharisees asked Him to eat with him. And He went to the Pharisee’s house, and sat down to eat. - Luke 7:37 NKJV

Who were the Pharisees? Pharisees were the most influential of the three major Jewish sects (the other two being the Sadducees and the Essenes). We first read of them in the second century b.c. (see Josephus, Antiquities13.10.5–6 [13.288–98]). In contrast to the Sadducees, the Pharisees believed in the resurrection, the existence of angels and demons (Luke 20:27; Acts 23:6–9), predestination as well as free will, and the validity of both the written and the oral law. Politically they were more conservative than the Sadducees, but religiously they were more liberal due to their acceptance of the oral law. (Robert H. Stein, Luke, vol. 24, The New American Commentary (Nashville: Broadman & Holman Publishers, 1992), 175.

This is not the only time that Jesus ate with Pharisees. Luke 11:37; 14:1 also mentions Jesus eating with Pharisees. They “reclined to eat” is a better translation than “sat down to eat,” since “sat down to eat” invokes a mental picture of European-style tables and chairs, when they were more likely reclining at a short table. This detail will come in handy later on. That they reclined at the meal indicates that it was a banquet or Sabbath meal. Concerning the latter, it was quite common to invite a visiting rabbi or teacher to the Sabbath meal after he had taught in the synagogue (see Mark 1:29–31). If it was a banquet meal, Jesus may have been invited because of his reputation as a prophet. (Robert H. Stein, p. 235–236.)

According to Wiersbe, “It was customary in that day for outsiders to hover around during banquets so they could watch the “important people” and hear the conversation. Since everything was open, they could even enter the banquet hall and speak to a guest. This explains how this woman had access to Jesus. He was not behind locked doors. In that day women were not invited to banquets.” (Warren W. Wiersbe, The Bible Exposition Commentary, vol. 1 (Wheaton, IL: Victor Books, 1996), 198.

Commenting on this passage, Bruce Larson points out that the Pharisee did not invite Jesus as a social equal since he did not provide the usual amenities for Him: the anointing of oil for the head, the ritual footwashing, and a kiss of greeting. This would indicate that the Pharisee invited Jesus out of curiosity. He had heard that Jesus was a prophet and he wanted to see for himself who this questionable celebrity was. (Bruce Larson and Lloyd J. Ogilvie, Luke, vol. 26, The Preacher’s Commentary Series (Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson Inc, 1983), 141.

Along these same lines Robert Stein shares that while it was not mandatory, it would have been a kind gesture for Simon (the Pharisee) as the host to have had his servants wash the feet of his guest (foot washing Gen 18:4; 19:2; 24:32; 43:24; 1 Sam 25:41; John 13:13–14) Simon was not necessarily being rude in neglecting to do this, but he certainly did not go out of his way to show hospitality to Jesus. It is evident that Simon in no way expressed any affection toward Jesus when he came to his home. (Robert H. Stein, Luke, vol. 24, The New American Commentary (Nashville: Broadman & Holman Publishers, 1992), 237.

Behold, a sinner.

37 And behold, a woman in the city who was a sinner, when she knew that Jesus sat at the table in the Pharisee’s house, brought an alabaster flask of fragrant oil, 38 and stood at His feet behind Him weeping; and she began to wash His feet with her tears, and wiped them with the hair of her head; and she kissed His feet and anointed them with the fragrant oil. - Luke 7:37-38 NKJV

Sometimes people are referred to as sinners because of their occupation. For example, tax collectors, tanners, camel drivers, and custom collectors, among others were considered ceremonially impure because of their occupations and could be labeled “sinners.” However, as it will become clear as the story progresses, her sins were not simply a matter of ceremonial uncleanness. (See Luke 7:47-50)

This sinful woman had undoubtedly repented and changed her life and wished to show her gratitude to Jesus who had rescued her. Her bad reputation as a harlot clung to her and made her an unwelcome visitor in the Pharisee’s house. - A.T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament (Nashville, TN: Broadman Press, 1933), Lk 7:37.

When this woman, who was a sinner, knew that Jesus was at the Pharisee’s house she brought fragrant oil and came to Jesus’ feet. This is where the height of the table and “sat down” vs. “reclined” at the table makes a significant difference. If Jesus and others were sitting down in a European-style table and chairs she would have had to crawl under the table by everyone else’s feet and make her way to Jesus’ feet. However, if it was a low table and everyone was reclining, perhaps on some pillows, their feet would be behind them, away from the table and not underneath the table.

This woman, who is a sinner, makes her way to Jesus’ feet and begins to weep, she then uses her tears to wash his feet, and her hair to wipe them. This is very humbling, and if that were not enough, she also repeatedly kisses His feet and anointed them with fragrant oil. It is very likely that she had knelt by Jesus’ feet to anoint them with the fragrant oil and did not expect to weep and to have her tears reach His feet before the fragrant oil.

If this man were a prophet…

39 Now when the Pharisee who had invited Him saw this, he spoke to himself, saying, “This Man, if He were a prophet, would know who and what manner of woman this is who is touching Him, for she is a sinner.” - Luke 36:39 NKJV

The Pharisee doubts that Jesus is a prophet. According to the Pharisee’s thinking, if Jesus were a prophet, then He would know that this woman was a sinner and He would not have allowed her to touch Him. Jesus addresses similar issues in Luke 7:34, where He recognizes that people accuse Him of being a friend of sinners. The Pharisee believes that he knows something that Jesus doesn’t, except that Jesus not only knows exactly who this woman is, He even knows what the Pharisee is thinking.

Let me tell you something.

And Jesus answered and said to him, “Simon, I have something to say to you.” So he said, “Teacher, say it.” - Luke 7:40 NKJV

I find it interesting that the Bible says “Jesus answered,” yet no question was asked of him, at least not out loud. Jesus is answering the thoughts of the Simon. Jesus had come to Simon’s house, not because it would be an honor to do so. Jesus did not come looking for support or resources. Jesus came to the Pharisee for the same reason he hung out with tax collectors. Jesus knew Simon also needed the forgiveness and peace that He came to offer to all of humanity.

Story Time

41 “There was a certain creditor who had two debtors. One owed five hundred denarii, and the other fifty. 42 And when they had nothing with which to repay, he freely forgave them both. Tell Me, therefore, which of them will love him more?”

43 Simon answered and said, “I suppose the one whom he forgave more.”

And He said to him, “You have rightly judged.”

Jesus used stories as a non-threatening way to engage his audience, see for example Luke 10:36 (Parable of the good Samaritan). This parable revealed to Simon that Jesus was indeed aware that the woman was a sinner. The parable also revealed that Jesus was aware of Simon’s thoughts, and not only that, the story revealed that Simon was also a sinner in need of forgiveness.

We don’t know how Simon reacted, but he is exposed. He knew everything about religion, liturgy, theology, ethics, temple worship, and the law. He knew all about the things of God but somehow he missed the essence of it all, which this woman captured. The woman knew how sinful she was. Simon’s problem was that he thought he was better than he was and he misunderstood the nature of God who is the giver of unconditional love. - Bruce Larson and Lloyd J. Ogilvie, Luke, vol. 26, The Preacher’s Commentary Series (Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson Inc, 1983), 141.

Do you see this woman?

44 Then He turned to the woman and said to Simon, “Do you see this woman? I entered your house; you gave Me no water for My feet, but she has washed My feet with her tears and wiped them with the hair of her head. 45 You gave Me no kiss, but this woman has not ceased to kiss My feet since the time I came in. 46 You did not anoint My head with oil, but this woman has anointed My feet with fragrant oil. - Luke 7:44-46 NKJV

Simon thought he knew something that Jesus didn’t, that the woman who was touching Him was a sinner. In reality, it was Simon who had failed to see. Simon had failed to see that Jesus was the Messiah, something the woman clearly saw.  

Everything that Simon neglected to do, the woman did—and she did it better! - Warren W. Wiersbe, The Bible Exposition Commentary, vol. 1 (Wheaton, IL: Victor Books, 1996), 198.

It is worth noting that “The parable does not deal with the amount of sin in a person’s life but the awareness of that sin in his heart. How much sin must a person commit to be a sinner? Simon and the woman were both sinners. Simon was guilty of sins of the spirit, especially pride, while the woman was guilty of sins of the flesh (see 2 Cor. 7:1). Her sins were known, while Simon’s sins were hidden to everyone except God. And both of them were bankrupt and could not pay their debt to God. Simon was just as spiritually bankrupt as the woman, only he did not realize it.” (Warren W. Wiersbe, The Bible Exposition Commentary, vol. 1 (Wheaton, IL: Victor Books, 1996), 198. Bold mine)

The main difference between Simon and the woman is not the amount of sin they had committed, but rather that she accepted God’s free offer of salvation and expressed her love openly. While Simon rejected Jesus’ offer and remained unforgiven. What a tragedy, to be so close to Jesus, yet fail to benefit from what Jesus had to offer.

What a tragedy to know so much about God, yet fail to understand the heart of God.

How tragic to have an intellectual and theological knowledge of God but miss the practical and relational understanding of our great need for the salvation that God offers us.

Have you ever wondered why, out of all the possible ways Jesus could have begun His sermon on the mount He chose to begin with “Blessed are the poor in spirit?” (Matthew 5:3) Because it is those who realize their need of Jesus that benefit from what Jesus has to offer. Simon probably knew much more about God, prophecy, the laws, and history than the woman did, but because that knowledge failed to cause Simon to recognize his need for Jesus it was all worthless. Maybe even worse than worthless, it was dangerous for his theological knowledge gave him a false sense of security. His hope was not found in Jesus or God’s great mercy, but rather in his intellectual prowess and religious discipline.

It was true that the woman had sinned more than Simon (according to the parable) but she is the only one who recognized her need for forgiveness and received it.

Your sins are forgiven

47 Therefore I say to you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven, for she loved much. But to whom little is forgiven, the same loves little.”

48 Then He said to her, “Your sins are forgiven.” - Luke 7:47-48 NKJV

Jesus did not downplay the sinfulness of the woman. Indeed, she was a sinner who had committed many sins. However, the multitude of her sins did not make her more lost than Simon. How many sins do you have to commit in order to be classified as a sinner? There are degrees of consequences on a human, physical, and emotional level. However, when it comes to salvation, a small or large sin, or one or one million sins don’t make much of a difference. Once again, here on earth, there is a difference, the more you sin or the different types of sins cause varying levels of pain and suffering. But when it comes to salvation, one is all it takes for you to need to be rescued by Jesus.

The fact that the woman had many sins did not matter because she came to Jesus who was more than happy to forgive her of all her sins! Simon, on the other hand, had different sins, sins people would probably refer to as smaller sins, less offensive, less disruptive. However, Simon was also in desperate need of the forgiveness and salvation that Jesus had to offer. His failure to notice that prevented him from experiencing the deep love the woman had for Jesus.

All true penitents have a dear love to the Lord Jesus. - Matthew Henry, Matthew Henry’s Commentary on the Whole Bible: Complete and Unabridged in One Volume (Peabody: Hendrickson, 1994), 1847.

As you read this you might identify with the woman with many sins, or you might identify yourself more closely with the Pharisee. Maybe your life has been pretty good, you might have never done anything terrible. Maybe you don’t feel a great need for Jesus and as a result, you don’t particularly feel much love towards Him. Maybe you look down on those who have more sins, those who have caused more pain and suffering and have also experienced a greater degree of pain and suffering. This story is a warning, lest you forget how you need Jesus’ salvation just as much as the worst sinner this world has ever seen.

Your faith has saved you.

49 And those who sat at the table with Him began to say to themselves, “Who is this who even forgives sins?” 50 Then He said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you. Go in peace.” - Luke 7:49-50 NKJV

Though the woman was forgiven much and loved much, her love was a result of her salvation, not the cause of it. She loved much because she had experienced forgiveness. Her forgiveness was a result of her faith.

We are not saved by faith plus works; we are saved by a faith that leads to works. This anonymous woman illustrates the truth of Galatians 5:6, “The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love” (NIV). - Warren W. Wiersbe, The Bible Exposition Commentary, vol. 1 (Wheaton, IL: Victor Books, 1996), 198.

Onlookers who had not experienced forgiveness to the degree that that woman had probably thought her behavior was over the top. We must be very careful not to judge someone else’s spiritual journey. They may seem fanatic to you, over-zealous, but perhaps they have just experienced God’s love in a way that is still foreign to you. Some dedicate their lives to God in such a passionate way that others wonder how it can be possible for anyone to live like that. Others live lives that barely give any evidence of their love for God.

I am still learning how to live my life in a way that is dedicated to God but sustainable. By this I mean I want to live in such a way that I will be around a long time to serve and bless those around me. However, I want to allow the Holy Spirit to move in me and make me uncomfortable as often as necessary for me to minister to those that God sends my way.

What about you?

What is your spiritual journey like? Is it vibrant and alive? Is your love for God passionate yet sustainable?

Or are you satisfied with a cheap and easy religion? Are you just sitting in your comfort zone judging those you consider less worthy of salvation? Do you love little and judge those who seem to love God way too much?

These are difficult questions. I am always asking God to guide me in this. I invite you to do the same. Ask God to reveal to you what you need to surrender to Him. Ask God to remind you of who you once were, and who you are now thanks to Him and His great love for you.

Instead of grudging greater sinners the mercy they find with Christ, upon their repentance, we should be stirred up by their example to examine ourselves whether we be indeed forgiven, and do love Christ. - Matthew Henry, Matthew Henry’s Commentary on the Whole Bible: Complete and Unabridged in One Volume (Peabody: Hendrickson, 1994), 1848.

Practical application

Jesus is not here for us to anoint his feet. Some of us don’t have hair long enough to wipe His feet, so what should we do?

Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ - Matthew 25:45 NKJV

Though Jesus is not here, there are those in need that we can help because of our great love for Jesus.

So here is my challenge for you. Pray that God will send you someone to help this week. Someone you can help in the name of Jesus. You will help this person not because of anything they can do or has done for you, you will help this person simply because of what Jesus has done for you, a selfless act of kindness, that will reflect your great love for Jesus and your recognition of all that He has done for you.

[christophe76460]

"COMMENT SE REPENTIR ENVERS DIEU

Cher Ami ! Chère Amie !

` Les gens ne supportent plus la saine Doctrine selon qu’il est écrit : « Car il viendra un temps ou les hommes ne supporteront pas la saine doctrine ; mais ayant la démangeaison d’entendre des choses agréables, ils se donneront une foule de docteurs selon leurs propres désirs, détourneront l’oreille de la vérité et se tourneront vers les fables »

2TIMOTHEE4 :3-4

Faites cette prière avant de continuer.

Vous démons qui me liez et m'aveuglez , je vous lie maintenant et

vous ordonner de vous taire et n'opérer plus dans ma vie !

au nom de Jésus

Dans les Eglises, on parle de moins en moins de repentance, et ceux qui osent en parler, l’évoque dans un contexte de généralité capable de plonger le pécheur cherchant DIEU, dans la confusion et dans l’ignorance. Certains hommes de DIEU, pourtant sincères et remplis et remplis de zèle, ont remplace la repentance par le cure d'âme,’tandis que d’autres espèrent obtenir ses fruits a travers les cours de baptême. La repentance c’est la substance même du message évangélique, incitant les hommes à se réconcilier avec DIEU conformément à ces paroles de JESUS : « Ainsi, il est écrit que le Christ souffrirait, et qu’il ressusciterait des morts le troisième jour, et que la repentance et le pardon des péchés seraient prêchés en son nom à toutes les nations, à commencer par Jérusalem » LUC 24 :46-47 Nous publions dans ce traite pour répondre à un réel besoin spirituel ’…’ce besoin est celui de ceux qui, après avoir cru et reçu JESUS comme Sauveur et Seigneur personnel, voudraient savoir comment procéder pour se tourner’ à DIEU à travers une Vraie Repentance.

Qu’est-ce que la Repentance ? Se repentir c’est changer de mentalité, c’est aussi changer d’intention. En fait, c’est abandonner les mauvaises voies et les mauvaises pensées « Que le méchant abandonne sa voie, et l’homme d’iniquité ses pensées et revienne à l’Eternel, qui aura pitié de lui. A NOTRE DIEU qui ne laisse pas de pardonner.

Quelles sont les étapes de la vraie Repentance ? Pour un pécheur repentant, la repentance comporte fondamentalement 4 étapes :

1-La Reconnaissance de ses péchés Celui qui veut se repentir, doit d’abord reconnaître ses péchés tels que le Saint-Esprit les lui révèle et selon la conviction que l’Esprit de DIEU impartit en lui. Il est écrit : « Comment dirais-tu : je ne me suis point souillé, je ne suis pas allé après les baals ? » Jérémie2 :23 Et encore « Reconnais seulement ton iniquité ; reconnais que tu as été infidèle à l’Eternel ton DIEU, que tu as dirigé ça et là tes pas vers les dieux étrangers, sous tout arbre vert. Et que tu n’as pas écoute ma voix ; dis l’Eternel » Jérémie 3 :13 La parole de DIEU nous donne une liste des péchés qui peuvent être commis soit en paroles, soit en pensées, soit en actes, avec un avertissement formel que quiconque commet ces péchés, n’héritera point la vie éternelle. Nous citons ici quelques-uns pour t’aider à reconnaître devant DIEU ce que tu as fait. Marc7 : 21-23 « C’est du dedans, c’set du cœur des hommes que sortent les mauvaises pensées, les adultères, les débauchés, les meurtres, les vols, les cupides, les méchancetés, la fraude, le dérèglement, le regard envieux, les calomnies, l’orgueil, la folie… » Galates5 :19-21 « Or les œuvres de la chair sont manifestes ; ce sont la débauche, l’impureté, le dérèglement, l’idolâtrie, la magie, les rivalités, les querelles, les jalousies, les animosités, les disputes, les divisions, les sectes, l’envie, l’ivrognerie, les excès de table et les choses semblables, je vous dis d’avance comme je l’ai déjà dit que ceux qui commettent de telles choses n’hériteront point le royaume de DIEU.»"

Parmi les choses semblables dont il est question, nous pouvons citer : l’invocation des morts, la corruption, la tricherie, la falsification des documents, le concubinage, le divorce, l’avortement, la masturbation, l’homosexualité, le lesbianisme, le mensonge, le tribalisme, le racisme, l’inceste, …

2-LA CONFESSION DES PECHES Quand quelqu’un a reconnu ses péchés devant DIEU, il est déjà qualifié pour pouvoir les lui confesser. Il est même conseillé, pour plus de concentration, d’écrire si possible les péchés reconnus sur une feuille. DIEU n’aime pas les confessions vagues et superficielles du genre : « O DIEU, pardonne-moi tous mes péchés et fortifies ma foi » ; car il dit dans Jérémie8 :6 « Je suis attentif et j’écoute ; ils ne parlent pas comme ils devraient ; aucun ne se repent de sa méchanceté et ne dit : Qu’ai-je fais ? Tous reprennent leur course comme un cheval qui s’élance au combat ». Etant donne que DIEU écoute attentivement la confession de chaque homme, celui qui se repent parle de manière à satisfaire le cœur de DIEU ; afin que sa prière soit exaucée et que ses péchés lui soient pardonnés. DIEU aime celui qui se pose la question : Qu’ai-je fait ? Et qui répond à cette question en établissant une liste des péchés à confesser

3-L’abandon des péchés « Que le méchant abandonne sa voie, et l’homme d’iniquité ses pensées ; qu’il retourne à l’Eternel, qui aura pitié de lui, à notre DIEU, qui ne se lasse pas de pardonner. Car mes pensées ne sont pas vos pensées, et vos voies ne sont pas mes voies, dit l’Eternel. » La résolution ou l’engagement d’abandonner les péchés est une étape qui entre dans le processus de la repentance. Car celui qui n’est pas prêt à abandonner le mal ou ses péchés ne saurait faire une Vraie Repentance ; parce qu’il est,…, il n’ya pas de Vraie Repentance sans décision d’abandonner le péché. DIEU ne peut pas pardonner celui qui confesse de la bouche seulement, et qui continue à pécher en actes, en pensées, ou en paroles. C’est pourquoi il est dis : « Aucun ne se repent de sa méchanceté et ne dis : Qu’ai-je fait ? Tous reprennent leur course comme un cheval qui s’élance au combat ». Jérémie 8 :6b

4- la restitution

Voici un exemple : si nous prenons le cas du pèche du mensonge, quelqu’un qui se met a prier pour son pardon de la manière suivante : « O DIEU, je reconnais que je suis un menteur. J’ai toujours dis a tout le monde que j’ai 25ans alors que je suis âgé de 45ans, O DIEU pardonne-moi ce mensonge. je me repens et je prends l’engagement de dire désormais mon vrai âge qui est 45ans. J’ai prie au nom de JESUSCHRIST.

Si tu veux hériter la vie éternelle,tu dois te repentir de tous tes péchés.

[qiu-yan]

“Within the novel of MDZS, no guardians (aside from Yu Ziyuan) are shown to talk to their children the way Jiang Cheng does.” > nie mingjue has entered the chat 

thanks for your reply! i can see how you’ve come to your conclusions too. to be honest i do suspect a lot of it comes down to cultural differences, plus some fundamental differences in how we approach analyzing works of fiction. 

sorry for being kind of bitchy about the quotes, and thanks for providing more context/surrounding text this time. that’s really helpful.

regarding point two:

first, i'm glad that we agree that jiang cheng does not physically abuse jin ling. i'm also glad that we agree that, at the very least, jiang cheng and jin ling's relationship is not the same as that between yu ziyuan and jiang cheng himself.

second, regarding the excerpts from the second siege of the burial mounds scene you pulled: you are correct in your assessment that, in that scene, jiang cheng is much colder and harsher towards jin ling than the other parents are to their children. jiang cheng really could stand to not be so cold to jin ling in this scene, and it’s pretty sad that he isn’t. evidently this guy has been pickling in resentment, grief, and uncertainty for the past few years, and it has affected his parenting. he’s certainly not a perfect parent. 

that said, i don’t think jiang cheng’s behavior here is necessarily representative of how he always acts? one has to remember that jiang cheng in the text of MDZS is at the most emotionally unstable he’s been for all of the past 13 years, since wei wuxian’s return means that all of jiang cheng’s wounds are getting dug open again. in this scene, not only are they in a highly dangerous hostage situation, jiang cheng is also already irritated with jin ling for having disappeared for the past few days, and is also dealing with the incredibly complex and nasty emotions that must have arisen from wei wuxian’s return and the public’s realization of said return. 

i also just don’t think jiang cheng’s behavior in this specific scene is abusive. he’s being quite cold, but i wouldn’t call it verbally abusive. 

third, regarding the following scene at jinlintai that you discussed here (here’s how it goes in the seven seas translation): 

Jin Ling trailed out after Jin Guangyao, still not daring to see Jiang Cheng on his own. He hid behind Jin Guangyao and mumbled a greeting. “Jiujiu.” “You still know to call me jiujiu?!” Jiang Cheng reprimanded sharply. Jin Ling hurriedly tugged the back of Jin Guangyao’s jacket. Jin Guangyao, who seemed born to resolve conflicts, appeased Jiang Cheng thusly. “Aiyah, Sect Leader Jiang, A-Ling already knows he was wrong. He’s been fretting so much about you punishing him that he hasn’t been able to eat these past few days. Children are mischievous. You dote on him the most out of us all, so don’t be so hard on him, okay?”  Jin Ling hurriedly added, “Yes, yes, that’s right! Xiao-shushu can back me up, my appetite has been terrible!”  “Terrible?” Jiang Cheng scoffed. “You look fine enough; I doubt you’ve missed any meals!”  Jin Ling was about to talk back again when he noticed Wei Wuxian behind Lan Wangji and was instantly stunned. 

MDZS Seven Seas translation, Vol. 2, Chapter 10: The Beguiling Boy 

i don’t think i’ll be able to fully convey my own reading to you, but i read this scene quite differently? to me, nothing in this scene indicates that jin ling is being abused. instead, everyone in this scene - even both jin ling and jiang cheng theselves - seems to be used to this kind of scene and are therefore largely unconcerned. jiang cheng does not read to me as actively threatening; instead, he sounds like a Wronged Mother. istg my own mom has said 你还知道叫我吗 (you still know to call me mother?) in that exact tone of voice. i also don’t consider jin ling hiding behind jin guangyao in this specific scene to be indication of any particularly outstanding avoidant behavior, since in my experience, teenagers trying to get the other parent to defuse the first parent’s anger when the first parent is annoyed with them is quite normal. just as it’s normal to want to hide from your parent when you know they’re going to lecture you about not having done your homework. 

i also think that concluding that jin ling has a more positive relationship with jin guangyao than he does to jiang cheng, simply because jin guangyao is verbally smoother to jin ling, is...a shallow reading of the text. first, one must consider that MDZS’s traditional chinese setting is highly patriarchal. in chinese history, traditionally only been the paternal side of one’s relations have had any staying weight; when a woman marries out of a family, she is considered to be a member of her husband’s family and her ties to her original family cut. if we follow traditional chinese convention, then, jin guangyao as jin ling’s paternal uncle should be jin ling’s primary parental figure; jiang cheng, jin ling’s maternal uncle, should not be in jin ling’s life at all. 

yet, in the text of MDZS, it is repeatedly jiang cheng who jin ling goes to for help, jiang cheng who shows up for jin ling’s milestone events, and jiang cheng who jin ling shows his tears to. by contrast, while jin guangyao is verbally gentler with jin ling, he is also more distant from jin ling and does not appear to spend nearly as much time with or emotional energy on jin ling as jiang cheng does. even in a purely modern setting, one would already conclude from these interactions that jin ling is thus closer to jiang cheng; given the social-historical context of the difference between a maternal uncle and a paternal uncle mattering, the fact that jin ling and jiang cheng are spending this much time together is huge. 

(this isn’t even to dunk on jin guangyao. he just was not emotionally attached to jin zixuan in the same way that jiang cheng was emotionally attached to jiang yanli.) 

on top of all this, there’s also the fact that wei wuxian and lan wangji are directly in this scene. wei wuxian is repeatedly established to be someone who cares deeply about jin ling and who is quite intelligent. so i think that, if we were really meant to see this interaction as evidence of jin ling being abused, then wei wuxian’s internal narration would have commented on it somehow. even if wei wuxian cannot directly act in this scene due to being disguised as mo xuanyu, if he were truly concerned about jin ling’s wellbeing, he would find some way to divert jiang cheng’s attention. at the very least, he would begin to raise concerns about jiang cheng’s parenting with jin ling when he encountered jin ling one-on-one later.

that wei wuxian does not do this, then, has one of two potential explanations. one, wei wuxian is okay with jin ling being abused. two, wei wuxian does not think jin ling is being abused. given wei wuxian’s personality, option two is far more likely. 

fourth, regarding your claim that the way in which jiang cheng speaks to jin ling is unique…..i found this claim of yours to be rather interesting, because my own experience is completely different. i’ve read and listened to some of jiang cheng’s original dialogue; to me, his cadence, word choice, and subject matter in speaking to jin ling are all incredibly familiar. 

first, the way jiang cheng speaks to jin ling is just how many parents in my real-life community speak to their children. these children (my peers), just like jin ling, by and large know they can shrug off the acerbic nagging. and my peers who most brazenly talk back to their parents are usually the people most secure in their parents’ love for them. 

i’ve also watched countless cdramas, both historical and modern-day, in which mothers (it’s pretty much always mothers) berate and nag at their children in the exact same way that jiang cheng berates jin ling. compared to the various mothers scene across countless cdramas, jiang cheng’s speech patterns are completely typical. 

in both the cdramas i’ve watched and in real-life interactions i’ve observed, one of the primary indicators of the child’s sense of safety is how freely they talk back to their parents. if the parent and child are actively screaming at each other, then the relationship is probably not good; meanwhile, if the child is just quietly standing there while their parent dresses them down (as with the case between jiang cheng himself and yu ziyuan), that indicates the child may be legitimately scared of their parent. instead, it’s when the child is freely talking back to their parent and giving as much sass as they get, that we generally conclude that the child feels safe around the parent and secure in the knowledge that their parent loves them. 

now, you also said that you have not seen any other fictional parent and/or guardian save yu ziyuan herself, both in MDZS and in other xianxia works, speak to their children in the same way that jiang cheng speaks to jin ling. to be honest, i find this incredibly difficult to believe. in my experience, this is simply not true. this claim is not even true within MDZS itself, since multiple other parental figures in MDZS - none of whom MXTX intends for us to read as villains - treat their children with equal if not greater levels of harshness.  

the following section is quite long, so here is everyone i’m going to discuss: nie mingjue, madame jin, wen qing, and chu wanning. 

first, just look at the example of nie mingjue and nie huaisang. nie mingjue is not nie huaisang’s father; however, given the large age difference between the two, the fact that their father died when nie mingjue was incredibly young, as well as the fact that nie mingjue subsequently ascended to the position of sect leader nie and made nie huaisang his heir, indicates to me that nie mingjue did play a heavily parental role to nie huaisang. this is corroborated by the fact that it is nie mingjue who repeatedly checks on nie huaisang’s grades at the gusu lectures, and who keeps trying (unsuccessfully) to get nie huaisang to practice the saber - both roles highly associated with (asian) parents. clearly nie mingjue is at once a brotherly and a paternal figure for nie huaisang; he can be considered to be nie huaisang’s guardian. 

and nie mingjue, nie huaisang’s guardian, speaks to nie huaisang incredibly harshly. he regularly pushes nie huaisang to practice the saber and keeps an eye on nie huaisang’s grades at the gusu lectures; when nie huaisang weasels out of practice and/or is caught being lazy in some other manner, nie mingjue reacts with anger, which then translates into a verbal lashing. 

consider the following scene, in which jin guangyao visits nie mingjue in order to begin playing the song of clarity for him, and during his visit gifts nie huaisang several fans. wei wuxian sees this scene through his empathy spell. (note that this scene takes place before jin guangyao has actually played any guqin songs at all for nie mingjue, meaning that, at the time of this scene, nie mingjue is entirely unpoisoned.) for clarity, i will refer to this scene as [Nie Scene 1]. 

Nie Scene 1: 

One day, upon returning to the Impure Realm, [Nie Mingjue] entered the main hall to see a dozen or so gold-edged folding fans unfurled and lined up before Nie Huaisang. Nie Huaisang was fondly stroking them one at a time, mumbling to himself as he compared the inscriptions on each fan. Veins instantly popped on Nie Mingjue’s forehead.  “Nie Huaisang!”  Nie Huaisang immediately dropped to the ground, startled into a kneeling position. He clambered to his feet afterward in trepidation and stuttered a greeting. “Da-da-da-da-ge!” Nie Mingjue demanded, “Where is your saber?”  Nie Huaisang stammered, “In…in my room. Wait, no. At the drilling grounds. No, I… Let me think…”  Wei Wuxian could sense Nie Mingjue’s desire to hack him to bits right where he stood. “You carry dozens of fans with you, but you don’t even know where your own saber is?!”  “I’ll go look for it right now!” Nie Huaisang said hastily.  “Forget it!” Nie Mingjue barked. “You can’t learn anything with it, even if you find it. Burn all of these!” The color drastically drained from Nie Huaisang’s face. He scooped all the fans into his arms in a panic, saying, “Da-ge, please don’t! These are all gifts from someone!”  Nie Mingjue cracked the table with one slam of his palm. “Who was it? Tell him to get the hell over here!”

MDZS Seven Seas translation, Vol. 2, Chapter 10: The Beguiling Boy 

in Nie Scene 1 here, nie mingjue speaks every bit as harshly to nie huaisang as jiang cheng has ever spoken to jin ling. frankly, the text speaks for itself. nie huaisang’s behavior angers nie mingjue; in reaction, nie mingjue berates nie huaisang, threatens to destroy his possessions, is described by the narration as feeling the urge to physically harm nie huaisang, and physically breaks furniture in front of nie huaisang. nie huaisang in turn reacts to nie mingjue’s actions with meekness, hesitance, and fear. if jiang cheng is verbally harsh towards jin ling, then in this scene (and other scenes like it), nie mingjue is at the very least matching that level of harshness, if not even exceeding it. 

moreover, if jin ling is exhibiting avoidant behavior with regard to jiang cheng in the jinlintai scene you quoted, then nie huaisang is also doing the same in this Nie Scene 1 here, as the scene continues below: 

Nie Scene 1 continued: 

Jin Guangyao strode into the hall. Nie Huaisang exclaimed in delight, as if he’d just sighted his savior. “San-ge, you came!”  It wasn’t that Jin Guangyao could appease Nie Mingjue’s fury—just that that fury was immediately transferred to him as soon as he showed up, leaving Nie Mingjue too preoccupied to scold anyone else. So it really wasn’t much of a stretch to call him Nie Huaisang’s savior. Overjoyed, Nie Huaisang repeatedly greeted, “Hello, san-ge!” as he hurriedly scooped the tableful of fans into his arms. Seeing his younger brother like this, Nie Mingjue was so angry that he now found it faintly ludicrous. 

MDZS Seven Seas translation, Vol. 2, Chapter 10: The Beguiling Boy 

just as jin ling is hiding behind jin guangyao from jiang cheng’s irritation in the section you quoted, here, nie huaisang also aims to use the exact same jin guangyao as a buffer between himself and nie mingjue’s rage. one has to wonder if jin ling’s behavior makes jin guangyao feel some nostalgia; perhaps that’s why he seems so unconcerned and amused even by his own standards in the jinlintai scene. again, this establishes to me that nie mingjue’s treatment of and words towards nie huaisang is every bit as harsh as jiang cheng’s treatment of and words towards jin ling, if not more so. therefore, if jiang cheng is verbally abusive to jin ling, then one must call nie mingjue verbally abusive to nie huaisang based solely on the above excerpt alone as well. 

however, i do not believe that we are meant to read nie mingjue’s words in the above Nie Scene 1 alone as verbally abusive. while nie mingjue verbally berates nie huaisang and threatens him in the above scene, and while nie huaisang does react with nervousness and panic, nie huaisang does not run away from the scene: instead, once jin guangyao starts explaining that he’s here to play the song of clarity, nie huaisang immediately begins nosing into the topic with open curiosity and zero fear that nie mingjue is actually going to carry out his threats. instead of fleeing nie mingjue’s wrath at his earliest convenience, as someone who was truly scared of nie mingjue would do, nie huaisang only leaves when nie mingjue directly tells him to go away. in addition, while nie mingjue does threaten to burn nie huaisang’s possessions, the narration later on notes that this is in fact a regular idle threat that nie mingjue has never actually carried out, which nie huaisang also trusts that nie mingjue will never actually carry out. much like jiang cheng’s threats to break jin ling’s legs, i suppose. 

more generally, nie mingjue is also not a villain. he may be overly inflexible in his ethics, and he may speak harshly, but he is also one of the people most strictly adherent to a code of ethics in the entire story. the fact that he loves nie huaisang cannot be challenged. the fact that nie huaisang loves him as well cannot be challenged, either: why else would nie huaisang embark on an unnecessary 10+ year plot of targeted destruction just to avenge nie mingjue’s death? 

since nie mingjue’s speech towards nie huaisang is matching or even exceeding the harshness levels of jiang cheng’s speech to jin ling, the converse of what i said earlier must also be true: if nie mingjue is not verbally abusive to nie huaisang, then jiang cheng cannot be called verbally abusive to jin ling either. either both of them are verbally abusive in their everyday behavior, or neither of them are. 

what’s interesting about Nie Scene 1 is that it contrasts a later scene also involving nie mingjue and nie huaisang, in which nie mingjue’s behavior is actively worse. i will refer to this second scene as Nie Scene 2. the story deliberately contrasts these scenes in order to establish that nie mingjue’s behavior in Nie Scene 2 is out of character, and that Nie Scene 2 evidences nie mingjue’s mental decline from the saber sickness and sheer rage from jin guangyao's behavior. in the following few paragraphs, i will discuss this Nie Scene 2, in which nie mingjue does indeed spectacularly flip his shit. i must preemptively establish, though, the difference between the above Nie Scene 1 and the below Nie Scene 2: Nie Scene 1 is one where [nie mingjue is behaving normally and is not yet affected by saber sickness], and Nie Scene 2 is one where [nie mingjue is behaving abnormally, is affected by saber sickness, and is infuriated due to jin guangyao]. this contrast is crucial to assessing nie mingjue’s behavior. 

this Nie Scene 2, set at the unclean realm, takes place a few days after nie mingjue confronts jin guangyao over the issue of xue yang, is infuriated by jin guangyao’s refusal/inability to turn xue yang over for execution, and subsequently kicks jin guangyao down the jinlintai stairs. in this scene, jin guangayo visits the unclean realm again to play the song of cleansing for nie mingjue, and finds nie huaisang once again half-assing his saber training.

Nie Scene 2: 

“Nie Huaisang, do you want me to cleave your head with this saber?! Get the hell back here!”  If only Nie Huaisang could feel, as Wei Wuxian did, the force with which Nie Mingjue’s anger blazed at that moment—then he would not grin as cheekily. “Da-ge, it’s time for a break!”  “You only just took a break one incense time ago,” Nie Mingjue scolded. “Continue until you master this.”  Nie Huaisang was still feeling complacent. “I’m never going to master it anyway. I’m not training anymore today!”  This was something Nie Huaisang always used to say. But Nie Mingjue’s reaction was unexpectedly completely different from what it had been before. He bellowed, “Even a pig would have already mastered it under my watch, so why are you not getting it?!”

MDZS Seven Seas translation, Vol. 2, Chapter 10: The Beguiling Boy 

before we can really get into the meat of nie mingjue’s meltdown, let’s look at these preliminary lines of dialogue to once again establish nie mingjue’s previous, baseline, unaffected-by-saber-sickness behavior. here, nie mingjue is berating nie huaisang and threatening him because nie huaisang is slacking off at saber practice. however, instead of reacting with fear, nie huaisang responds with cheek and casualness, and very much does not obey nie mingjue. that nie huaisang responds to nie mingjue’s threats with zero fear and zero change in his behavior indicates to me that, historically, all of nie mingjue’s threats and shouting have been bluster, and that in the past nie huaisang has gotten away completely with ignoring nie mingjue’s nagging. this is supported by the fact that, in this scene, the narration notes that nie huaisang’s flippant replies are “something Nie Huaisang always used to say,” and also by the fact that, when nie mingjue actually does become angrier and push the issue, the narration specifically notes that this behavior is “unexpectedly completely different from what it had been before.” 

unfortunately for huaisang, this time nie mingjue is really feeing that saber sickness, so his reaction now is going to be quite different. let’s continue with Nie Scene 2: 

Nie Scene 2 continued: 

Not expecting this sudden outburst, Nie Huaisang cowered toward Jin Guangyao, dumbstruck. At the sight of the two together, Nie Mingjue’s anger surged even higher.  “It’s been a year, and you still haven’t mastered a single set of saber techniques. Complaining after spending a single incense time in the drilling grounds—I’m not asking you to be outstanding, but you can’t even defend yourself! How did the Nie Clan of Qinghe produce such a good-for-nothing?! The two of you ought to be tied up and beaten every day! Fetch all those things from his room!” This last sentence was directed at the sect disciples standing by the side of the drilling grounds. Nie Huaisang was on tenterhooks as he watched them leave. A short while later, the disciples returned, having really fetched all the calligraphy, paintings, porcelain wares, and folding fans from his room.  Nie Mingjue had always gone on about burning his things in the past but had never actually done it. This time, however, he meant business. Nie Huaisang panicked and lunged over. “Da-ge! You can’t burn them!”  Seeing this did not bode well, Jin Guangyao piped up too. “Don’t be rash, da-ge.”  But Nie Mingjue had already swung out his saber, engulfing the pile of exquisite things at the center of the drilling grounds in a towering, raging fire. Nie Huaisang let out a tragic wail and pounced into the fire to save them. Jin Guangyao hurriedly pulled him back to stop him. “Huaisang, careful!”  Nie Mingjue struck out, and the two items of white porcelain Nie Huaisang had grabbed from the fire shattered to pieces in his hands. The scrolls of calligraphy and paintings had already turned to ash. Nie Huaisang watched, speechless and helpless, as all the beloved objects he had collected over the years, from all around the world, were consumed by the flames.  Jin Guangyao grabbed his palms to inspect them. “Were you burned?” He turned to the other sect disciples. “Might I trouble you to go prepare some medicine?” The sect disciples acknowledged him and left to do so. Nie Huaisang stood rooted to the ground, his whole body shaking as he looked at Nie Mingjue with eyes that were gradually growing bloodshot. Jin Guangyao, noticing this, put his arm around his shoulders.  He said softly, “Huaisang, how are you? Don’t watch this anymore. Let’s go inside to rest.” Nie Huaisang’s eyes continued to redden. He remained silent. Jin Guangyao continued, “It’s no big deal if they’re gone. San-ge will find more for you in the future…”  “He brings those things into the house again, and I’ll burn them all too,” Nie Mingjue said coldly.”

MDZS Seven Seas translation, Vol. 2, Chapter 10: The Beguiling Boy 

two things. first, this is straight up worse than anything jiang cheng says or does to jin ling. nie mingjue insults nie huaisang - compares him unfavorably to a pig and says he should be beaten - with a level of cruelty that jiang cheng does not speak to jin ling with. moreover, nie mingjue destroys not just some, but pretty much all of nie huaisang’s art collection. jiang cheng has certainly never destroyed this many (or any at all) of jin ling’s personal possessions anywhere in the text. however you may feel about the question of whether or not jiang cheng abuses jin ling, you have to admit that what nie mingjue is doing here to nie huaisang is worse. 

second, this behavior is meant to be read not just as shocking, but specifically as shockingly out of character. nie mingjue’s behavior here can in fact be read as abusive - however, it is also clearly not how he usually behaves. instead, nie mingjue’s poor behavior here is direct evidence that the saber sickness plus rage at jin guangyao's behavior a few days ago is taking a toll on his cognition and mental stability.

here, let me discuss what conclusions about nie mingjue MXTX intends for us to draw, and how those intended conclusions then compare to conclusions MXTX may want us to draw about jiang cheng. 

in order to achieve the effect of highlighting nie mingjue’s mental decline, MXTX deliberately contrasts this Nie Scene 2 and the previous Nie Scene 1, in which nie mingjue berated nie huaisang as he typically did, without any mental decline involved. now, let’s consider the question of whether or not MXTX intends for us to read nie mingjue’s regular, non-saber-sickness-affected behavior as abusive as well. personally, i think no. nie mingjue speaks harshly to nie huaisang in Nie Scene 1, yes; however, if the contrast between Nie Scene 1 and Nie Scene 2 is to successfully become stark enough to serve as solid evidence of nie mingjue’s mental decline, then it makes much more sense for MXTX to intend for us to read Nie Scene 1 as ordinary and non-abusive. from MXTX’s point of view, if she writes Nie Scene 1 as non-abusive and Nie Scene 2 as abusive, then the contrast between the two scenes becomes much more apparent, and the reader can immediately see what lan xichen and jin guangyao mean when they say that nie mingjue’s saber sickness is beginning to really affect him. however, if both Nie Scene 1 and Nie Scene 2 are meant to be read as abusive instead, then this contrast effect is lost. 

based on this reasoning about the deliberate contrast between Nie Scene 1 and Nie Scene 2, i conclude that nie mingjue’s behavior in Nie Scene 1 is not meant by MXTX to read as abusive, verbally or otherwise. 

now, i have previously established that nie mingjue’s behavior and speech towards nie huaisang in Nie Scene 1 is every bit as harsh as jiang cheng’s behavior and speech towards jin ling in general. and as i said earlier, if jiang cheng is verbally abusive to jin ling, then one must call nie mingjue’s baseline + non-saber-sick speech, based on the above excerpt alone, verbally abusive to nie huaisang as well; if nie mingjue’s non-saber-sick speech is not verbally abusive to nie huaisang, then jiang cheng cannot be called verbally abusive to jin ling either. either both of them are verbally abusive in their everyday behavior, or neither of them are. and since i have just established that MXTX does not intend for us to read nie mingjue’s typical, non-saber-sick speech as abusive, then i must conclude that MXTX does not intend for us to read jiang cheng’s speech as abusive either. 

of course, one can read all of this and still conclude that nie mingjue has been verbally abusive towards nie huaisang right from the start, even without any saber sickness and mental decline involved. however, the point nonetheless stands that nie mingjue speaks just as harshly to nie huaisang as jiang cheng speaks to jin ling. even if you must call nie mingjue's baseline level of speech verbally abusive, the fact that nie mingjue speaks like that at all already disproves your claim that only yu ziyuan and jiang cheng speak to their children like thus.

second, madame jin berates her son, jin zixuan, in pretty much the exact same way. consider this excerpt, taken from the phoenix mountain night-hunt; in this scene (in which madame jin had been trying to get jin zixuan and jiang yanli together), after jin zixuan and jiang yanli’s conversation is interrupted by wei wuxian, a confrontation between jin zixuan + jin zixun and wei wuxian escalates and draws the attention of madame jin. 

Jin Zixuan was blank for a moment. “Mother! Why have you come?”  It was then that he realized that both his and Lan Wangji’s sword glares had shot into the sky. Of course Madam Jin would come after witnessing that from the observation deck. He glanced at the many Jin Clan cultivators who’d come with her. “Why did you bring so many people with you? I don’t need you to interfere with the Siege Hunt.”  Madam Jin clicked her tongue. “Don’t flatter yourself. Who said I’m here for you?!” She saw Jiang Yanli shrinking behind Wei Wuxian. Her expression immediately softened, and she went over to take her hands and gently comfort her.  “A-Li, what a state you’re in.” “I am fine, Madam, thank you,” Jiang Yanli replied. Madam Jin was quick on the uptake. “Did that damned brat bully you again?” she asked. “Oh, no,” Jiang Yanli quickly denied. Jin Zixuan jerked. He seemed to want to speak but held himself back. As if Madam Jin wasn’t aware of what her own son was like! Easily able to guess what had transpired, she immediately flew into a rage and loudly rebuked her son.  “Jin Zixuan! Do you have a death wish?! What was it that you told me before you came out here?!”  “I…!” Jin Zixuan tried, but Wei Wuxian cut in.

MDZS Vol. 3, Chapter 15: Peony for the Soon Departed 

and then, a bit later in the same scene: 

“Oh, please don’t be angry, A-Li,” Madam Jin pleaded. “Just tell me what stupid thing that foul, stubborn brat of mine has done this time. I’ll make him apologize to you properly.”

MDZS Seven Seas Translation, Vol. 3, Chapter 15: Peony for the Soon Departed 

in this scene, just like nie mingjue above, madame jin is also every bit as scathing towards jin zixuan as jiang cheng is towards jin ling. of course, it is possible to conclude that madame jin also verbally abuses jin zixuan, especially given her friendship with yu ziyuan. but i don’t think we’re really meant to draw that conclusion. first, jin zixuan is clearly willing to try and talk back in this scene in a way that jiang cheng never once was with yu ziyuan. there is also the fact that madame jin is continuously kind to jiang yanli, and in jiang yanli’s later scenes with madame jin, she does not seem wary of madame jin’s interactions with jin zixuan in the same way that she was wary of yu ziyuan’s interactions with wei wuxian and jiang cheng. finally, we do actually know what madame jin looks like when she’s abusing someone, since she is in fact verbally and physically abusive towards jin guangyao - and that is very much not how she treats jin zixuan. 

there is also the fact that the text goes out of its way to highlight madame jin’s grief at jin zixuan’s death: 

The Madam Jin in Wei Wuxian’s memory was ruthlessly efficient and resolute…But right now, what Wei Wuxian saw was an ordinary middle-aged woman. She had graying hair at her temples and was dressed in plain white robes of mourning. She had no makeup on, revealing her ashen complexion and her dry, cracked lips. …She drew a deep breath and adjusted her expression as if she wished to don her usual air of dignity.  But her eyes reddened before she could fully inhale.  She had never allowed herself to show the slightest hint of sorrow in front of Jiang Yanli. The moment she stepped outside, however, the corners of her mouth fell and her features seemed to collapse in on themselves. Her entire body started to shake.

MDZS Seven Seas Translation, Vol. 4, Chapter 18: Night Flight 

this is a clear portrait of a woman emotionally devastated by her son’s death, of a woman who truly loved her son. now, it’s entirely plausible to conclude that madame jin truly loved her son and also verbally abused him. however, madame jin also is such a side character that she doesn’t even get her own name; her son, though a plotwise important character, is also given almost no characterization. as such, we can conclude that madame jin’s narrative role is less to be a complex character in her own right and more just to fill in the role of “madame jin.” in this light, [a woman who clearly loved her son but also was verbally abusive towards him] is far beyond the complexity required to fulfill this story role, and is therefore probably not what MXTX intended. meanwhile, if we really were meant to read madame jin as verbally abusive, then the emotions of this scene would become much more muddled than MXTX intended. 

therefore, i feel confident in concluding that madame jin is not intended to be read as verbally abusive towards jin zixuan, even though she speaks to him just as scathingly as jiang cheng speaks to jin ling. on top of this, there is also the fact that jin ling is even more comfortable talking back to jiang cheng in a way that jin zixuan clearly is not with madame jin - which indicates to me that jin ling also feels more secure around jiang cheng than jin zixuan felt around madame jin. 

again, of course one can read all of this and still conclude that madame jin verbally abuses jin zixuan, since madame jin is established as a rather assholeish character (at least, to jin guangyao). however, the point nonetheless stands that madame jin speaks just as harshly to jin zixuan as jiang cheng speaks to jin ling. even if you must call madame jin’s speech verbally abusive, the fact that madame jin just does this in the open indicates that, within the world of MDZS, speaking to one’s children with this level of verbal harshness is in fact culturally normal - it is not the jiang-cheng-specific rarity that you are portraying it as. 

now let’s look at another example. jiang cheng’s harsh rebukes of jin ling are also rather similar to the way in which wen qing speaks to wen ning, in the few scenes they have together in which they actually speak to each other (it turns out that wen ning and wen qing don’t actually have that many lines of dialogue in which they’re just speaking to each other, since wen ning is either missing or an unconscious fierce corpse for most of wen qing’s scenes). obviously, wen qing is not wen ning’s parent or legal guardian. however, wen ning’s weak constitution and need for medicine combined with wen qing’s high ability and status in wen ruohan’s court does indicate to me that there is some power difference between the two; i find it reasonable to conclude that (a somewhat parentified) wen qing has probably been responsible for wen ning’s wellbeing and protection for most of their lives. 

consider this dialogue, taken from the scene after wen ning sneaks wei wuxian and jiang chen ginto wen qing's supervisory office, and wen qing accepts that the latter two are going to be staying at her supervisory office in secret for a bit of time: 

Wen Ning hurriedly nodded. “Thank you, jiejie!”  A packet of medicinal herbs was tossed in from outside the door.  “Put in some effort if you really want to thank me!” Wen Qing scolded from afar. “What the hell was that medicine you decocted earlier? Redo it!”   The packet of medicinal herbs smacked right into Wen Ning, but he still very happily said, “Any medicine my sister prepared is sure to be good. A hundred times better than mine. Superb, for certain.”

MDZS Seven Seas translation, Vol. 3, Chapter 12: Sandu: The Three Poisons 

while this is just one line of dialogue, the acerbic tone here is rather reminiscent of how jiang cheng speaks to jin ling. scolding jin ling with a “what the hell was [that martial arts form / archery shot / talisman drawing / etc]? redo it!” and then throwing something at jin ling does seem very much like something jiang cheng would do. in addition, the fact that wen ning reacts with happiness and does not at all seem surprised or upset by wen qing’s rather harsh address to him indicates to me that wen qing frequently speaks to wen ning this way, that her scolding him in this harsh manner is normal and expected - this in turn makes wen qing even more similar to jiang cheng. 

yet we are obviously not supposed to conclude that wen qing is verbally abusive towards wen ning. instead, her other actions indicate that she loves wen ning, arguably more than anything else in the world, and that he knows this. instead, the conclusion we are meant to draw here is that wen qing shows her affection to wen ning (and later to wei wuxian) through verbal sternness, scoldings, and harsh words. to be honest, this is also the conclusion i draw about jiang cheng. and part of the reason why i draw that conclusion about jiang cheng is specifically that the way he speaks to jin ling is so similar to the way wen qing, established to be a deeply loving character despite her prickly exterior, speaks to wen ning, wei wuxian, and her other loved ones. 

now i have listed a number of MDZS characters - nie mingjue, madame jin, and wen qing - who speak to their charges with similar, equal, and even greater levels of verbal acidity than jiang cheng speaks to jin ling with. therefore, i must disagree with your claim that “[w]ithin the novel of MDZS, no guardians (aside from Yu Ziyuan) are shown to talk to their children the way Jiang Cheng does.” none of the characters i listed are meant to be read as villains. nie mingjue, for all his flaws, is repeatedly established to have an ironclad code of ethics; furthermore, the fact that nie huaisang enacted a 10+ year plan of vengeance over his murder indicates to me that nie huaisang truly loved nie mingjue and was devastated by his death. madame jin is kind of an asshole character (to jin guangyao specifically), but her straightforwardly kind treatment of jiang yanli and her emotional devastation at jin zixuan’s death both indicate to me that she truly loved jin zixuan. wen qing is a straight-up heroic character and no one can doubt how much she loves wen ning. and yet, all three of these MDZS characters speak to the children and charges under their care with every bit as much verbal harshness as jiang cheng speaks to jin ling. the fact that this many verbally acerbic, non-villainous parental figures do in fact exist in the MDZS story indicates to me that jiang cheng’s verbal harshness to jin ling is not particularly culturally unusual. furthermore, my analysis as to why none of these characters should be read as being abusive towards their specific charges also indicate to me that i should not read jiang cheng as abusive either, since his behavior matches theirs. 

now, since you also said that you “have yet to see any other non-villainous parents or guardians talking to their children the way Jiang Cheng or Yu Ziyuan do in the xianxia novels I've read since MDZS,” let’s also discuss these other xianxia works. in general, i also find this claim very difficult to believe, because (in my experience as a chinese person), the relatively harsh treatment of children, to at least the levels of harshness established by jiang cheng and often exceeding said levels, is pretty much normalized and accepted in the genre. 

first, physical violence itself against children is already a commonplace trope in chinese historical, wuxia, and xianxia fiction. just take a look at MDZS’s gusu lan, for one: wei wuxian straight up gets physically beaten for violating the gusu lan sect rules, and no one bats an eye. meanwhile, in MXTX’s SVSSS, the current peak lord of baizhan peak, the peak specializing in marital arts, is liu qingge; the story directly states that liu qingge’s style of “teaching” is just beating up all prospective disciples until they either figure things out or leave. 

now, if we want to look at a combination of verbal lashings and actual physical lashings, we need look no further than erha’s chu wanning. chu wanning, the romantic lead of erha, is repeatedly established by erha’s narration to be a poor little meow meow so misunderstood by the world, who is socially unsuccessful because others don’t understand him, and who is also uniquely in possession of an ironclad, incorruptible code of righteousness. in other words, erha’s narration goes out of its way to establish that it loves chu wanning and that he is meant to read as straightforwardly good and heroic. 

chu wanning is also both verbally harsh and physically violent towards his disciples, pretty much from the moment he appears in the story. not only does he speak to his disciples with every bit of verbal acidity with which jiang cheng speaks to jin ling - if not more, even - he also far exceeds jiang cheng’s behavior by also physically whipping the disciples of his peak with his actual spiritual weapon. jiang cheng, at the very least, never whipped jin ling with zidian with the intent to cause him physical harm. chu wanning, by contrast, is out here whipping minors with tianwen (one of his three spiritual weapons, a willow branch) hard enough to draw blood and to consign disciples hit by it to the infirmary. 

and despite this behavior, the story of erha still ultimately concludes that he is heroic. while mo ran (the narrator and protagonist) and his narration do initially dunk on chu wanning as scary and overly strict, the narration comes around on chu wanning incredibly quickly after a certain spoiler moment - despite the fact that chu wanning’s verbal and physical harshness do not change. in fact, instead of castigating chu wanning for his harsh behavior towards his students, the erha story instead just treats said behavior as evidence that chu wanning is a huge tsundere. 

(as you can probably tell, i’m not a huge fan of this book.) 

all this is to say that, in xianxia and wuxia works, both verbal and physical harshness towards children under one’s care is incredibly normalized, to the point where it’s pretty much a trope of the genre. to put it in other words, this behavior is in fact “something both normal and acceptable in the culture,” or at least in the genre. 

finally, let’s take another look at what MXTX intends for us to conclude about jiang cheng, jin ling, and breaking the cycle. i agree with your assessment that jin ling is incredibly brave and ultimately chooses the path of integrity largely of his own power. however, i do still think that children at that age are still heavily influenced by their upbringings in a way that adults are not; therefore, that jin ling is able to choose the path of integrity and forgiveness at the end of the novel speaks highly of jiang cheng’s parenting, since jiang cheng is the one adult with whom jin ling has the strongest relationship. 

i do also think that MXTX intends the ending of the novel as it pertains to the juniors specifically to read as straightforwardly hopeful. as you said, the juniors are meant to represent a straightforward hope for the future. and i think that this hope is meant to exist without any major caveats or exceptions. it is for this exact reason that i conclude MXTX does not intend for us to read jiang cheng as abusive. 

because if MXTX did want us to read jiang cheng as abusive, she would have had jin ling decisively cut him off at the end of the story. the portion of MDZS’s ending dedicated to the juniors is not meant to be bittersweet or tragicomic; instead, the reader is supposed to be able to invest a straightforward and undiluted hope in the juniors. if jiang cheng was meant to be read as abusive, and then the story ended without jin ling cutting him off, then the junior portion of MDZS’s ending is no longer happy - instead, it becomes quite sad, since jin ling is still stuck with a parental figure who abuses him. therefore, the fact that MDZS ends with jiang cheng and jin ling’s relationship fully intact - that it ends with jin ling not cutting jiang cheng off, but rather running after him and nagging him about what it was he wanted to but did not say to wei wuxian - and that this ending is meant to be read as hopeful, indicates to me that we are not meant to read jiang cheng as abusive. 

now, i’ve read some takes that claim that, postcanon, jin ling will try to distance himself from jiang cheng. i do not agree with these takes. for one, there is nothing in the text of the ending or the extras that indicates that this is something jin ling wants to do. instead, the novel ends with jin ling running off after jiang cheng; the extras (particularly the iron hook extra) then establish that jiang cheng and jin ling still have a strong relationship, with jiang cheng go ing as far as to storm jinlintai to ensure that no one tries to steal jin ling’s birthright. now, the text of the iron hook extra does state that jin ling tried to get jiang cheng to leave - however, as wei wuxian accurately figures out, jin ling did that out of concern for jiang cheng: he did not want people to start accusing jiang cheng of trying to take over the jin sect. 

Wei Wuxian knew Jin Ling wasn’t willing to show weakness, so he said, “Go to your uncle more often if something’s wrong.” “It’s not like he’s a Jin,” Jin Ling answered coldly. Wei Wuxian was taken aback when he heard this, but then understanding hit him. Caught between laughter and tears, he raised a hand and smacked Jin Ling on the back of his head. “Talk sense!” …Covering his head, [Jin Ling] hollered, “Why did you hit me?!” “I hit you to remind you to think of your uncle,” Wei Wuxian said. “He’s not a busybody who likes meddling in other people’s affairs, but for your sake, he goes to other people’s houses to throw his weight around. In turn, he gets fingers pointed at him. And you write him off as ‘not a Jin.’ Surely he’d be bitterly disappointed to hear that.” Jin Ling was stunned for a moment, then began to rage. “I didn’t mean it that way! I—” “Then what did you mean?” Wei Wuxian replied. “I!” Jin Ling said. “I…”  The first “I” was full of bluster, while the second “I” was deflated.  “I, I, I. I will help you say what you mean,” Wei Wuxian said. “Jiang Cheng may be your uncle, but he’s still an outsider to the Jin Clan of Lanling. He’s already intervened a few times to help you, but if he continues to overstep his authority in other people’s domains, it will become an excuse for others to denounce him in the future, which will cause him trouble. Am I right?” Jin Ling fumed. “Duh! So you do understand! Then why did you hit me?!” Wei Wuxian backhandedly smacked him again. “That is why I’m hitting you! Can’t you just come out with whatever you have to say? How does such a nice sentiment sound so offensive when it comes from your mouth?!”

MDZS Seven Seas translation, Vol. 5: Extra 5: The Iron Hook 

this excerpt is also interesting for another reason: as stated above, the text thoroughly establishes that wei wuxian cares deeply for jin ling’s wellbeing and that wei wuxian is an intelligent person. given this and wei wuxian’s own background with yu ziyuan, wei wuxian should logically be able to recognize if jin ling is being abused, and also care enough about jin ling to intervene. thus, if jiang cheng really is meant to be read as abusive, wouldn’t our righteous hero wei wuxian just say to jin ling that jiang cheng is abusing him? if we really are meant to conclude that jin ling would be better off without jiang cheng, wouldn’t our loving hero wei wuxian tell jin ling to leave jiang cheng and free himself - something jin ling is entirely capable of doing, since he’s now the leader of lanling jin, an entirely different sect from yunmeng jiang? why is wei wuxian instead telling jin ling to go to jiang cheng more often? why is wei wuxian instead highlighting what jiang cheng has done for jin ling’s sake? why is wei wuxian instead telling jin ling to be more mindful of jiang cheng’s feelings? 

this implies to me that postcanon wei wuxian does not think of jiang cheng as being abusive towards jin ling. and, given everything else i have written above, i think that we are meant to agree with wei wuxian here - just as we are also meant to agree with wei wuxian about pretty much all the other conclusions he draws at the end of the story. i think that this is a big part of why MXTX refers to jiang cheng as a “knife mouth and tofu heart” in her interviews. 

as you might have noticed, this writeup deals more heavily with the thesis that [MXTX does not intend for us to read jiang cheng as abusive to jin ling] than it does with the thesis [jiang cheng does not abuse jin ling]. these are not the same thing. as i will further explain in my second response, you as the reader are free to disagree with the conclusions the author intends for you to draw about the events depicted in a story. personally, i do not think that jiang cheng is abusive to jin ling, verbally or otherwise - to me, his speech and behavior towards jin ling read as culturally normal. however, i do not expect to be able to persuade you to see things the same way. you are free to disagree with me and MXTX. 

regarding point three:

before i say anything else, i must say that you cannot assess the events of MDZS by typical xianxia-genre rules. first of all, MDZS is far closer to a wuxia than a xianxia: it is far more low-fantasy than typical xianxia works, and it lacks the highly established golden core development pipeline that the vast majority of xianxia works boast. instead, the fact that cultivating a golden core in MDZS is a binary affair - you either have one or you don’t - as well as the focus on marital arts over cultivating to immortality, indicates that MDZS is more of a wuxia. this is further evidenced by the fact that MXTX said during an interview that she was inspired in part by the writing of jin yong, one of the genre pioneers of wuxia.

second, MDZS does not play the typical wuxia or xianxia tropes straight, but rather subverts them. in fact, i would go as far as to say that MDZS is a deconstruction of typical xianxia and/or wuxia tropes. wei wuxian’s entire character arc, for one, is a massive deconstruction of the “unambiguously evil modao final boss” trope that often appears in xianxia works; taking this trope that readers of xianxia and wuxia must be familiar with and then turning it on its head is central to MDZS’s conceit. furthermore, the fact that the world of MDZS does not operate by wuxia rules is very much significant to MDZS’s central themes about face and reputation. in wuxia works, characters can go from fighting each other to the death to swearing brotherhood rather easily, and a single skilled martial artist can in fact stand up alone agains the hatred of the world. this is….noticeably not the case in MDZS. in fact, the fact that this is not the case in MDZS, that these genre rules do not apply to the grittier and more cynical world of MDZS, is quite important to the story, actually! 

therefore, we cannot assess the events of MDZS using typical xianxia-genre rules or wuxia-genre rules. we cannot assume that, just because something would work in a certain way in other xianxia or wuxia works, the same thing would work in MDZS. while something along the lines of “my follower was just overcome with passion and righteous anger and then failed to temper his actions” might fly in other, non-deconstructive xianxia or wuxia works, the same cannot be said of MDZS - because MDZS is not a conventional xianxia or wuxia work at all. 

now let me address the rest of your rebuttal. this response will focus disproportionately on two of your claims, and therefore may not feel entirely satisfactory. those claims are: 

yunmeng jiang’s position was not particularly weak. 

jiang cheng’s actions (or lack of actions) in the meeting scene were driven primarily by emotions of resentment, anger at being disrespected by wei wuxian, and hatred of the wens; considerations and fears of political ramifications for yunmeng jiang did not enter into his thinking. 

i disagree with both of these claims. this may lead me to disagree with what i think MXTX aims for me to conclude from the events she describes, but i find that disagreement acceptable. let me explain what i mean below. 

first, let me establish this: just because the text of the story does not directly state something, or the text of the story directly states something else, does not in fact mean that said something is not true. sometimes, we are the reader not only can but are also directly meant to read between the lines and come to our own conclusions as to what is actually going on. this can still be true even when our conclusions may disagree with what the narration itself directly tells us; such is the hallmark of unreliable narration. 

to illustrate what i mean, let’s consider the following excerpt (unrelated to the current topic of discourse), in which wei wuxian asks a drunk lan wangji what lan wangji thinks of him: 

Wei Wuxian pointed at himself with a wide, happy grin. “What about this one?”  “Mine,” Lan Wangji answered. “…” Lan Wangji gazed intently at him and repeated, impeccably, clearly, emphasizing the word, “Mine.”  Wei Wuxian suddenly got it. He took off Bichen and thought, I pointed at myself just now, but Lan Zhan probably misunderstood “this one” as Bichen on my back.”

MDZS Seven Seas translation, Vol. 1, Chapter 7: The Morning Dew

here, what wei wuxian concludes is that, when lan wangji says “mine,” he is referring to bichen. the narration directly backs up wei wuxian by stating: “wei wuxian suddenly got it.” however, anyone with a brain can tell you that wei wuxian did not in fact “get” anything. because what lan wangji actually meant when he said “mine” was wei wuxian himself. 

notice that "lan wangji was referring to wei wuxian" is not directly stated in the text! there is no direct quote from the text that says “when lan wangji said ‘mine,’ he meant wei wuxian himself.” however, the fact that there is no quote directly saying so does not make this any less true. instead, MXTX means for us to draw this conclusion ourselves by reading between the lines. 

with this toy example, i hope i have established the importance of reading between the lines and drawing simple, logical conclusions from the given information - this framework will be essential to the rest of this analysis.  

now, let us discuss my first point: i believe that yunmeng jiang’s postwar position, even years later, was still very weak. while there is nothing in the text that directly states yunmeng jiang is still in a weak position, there is nothing in the text that directly states that yunmeng jiang has recovered to its previous position of social prestige, wealth, manpower, and political influence either. therefore, this matter can be theorized on. and it is with this same framework - of reading between the lines and drawing my own logical conclusions from the given information - that i come to this conclusion. here is a full breakdown as to why: 

here are some of the canon, concrete facts we are given: 

1A: the yunmeng jiang sect was almost completely annihilated by the qishan wen sect immediately before the sunshot campaign's beginning. this includes all of yunmeng jiang’s leadership, elders, disciples both senior and junior - basically everyone except wei wuxian, jiang cheng, and jiang yanli. in addition, during the earlier half of the sunshot campaign, lotus pier was occupied by qishan wen. 

1B: during the sunshot campaign, sect leader jiang wanyin recruited enough new disciples to yunmeng jiang to allow him to retake lotus pier.

1G: [postwar], wei wuxian's ghostly cultivation has attracted a number of new disciples to yunmeng jiang. however, wei wuxian's ghostly cultivation is also increasingly attracting critics.

from the above facts, i feel very confident in concluding that yunmeng jiang was still in a very weak position by the time wei wuxian attacked the qiongqi pass camp. 

first, since all of yunmeng jiang’s manpower save three people was wiped out by qishan wen right before the start of the sunshot campaign, all of yunmeng jiang’s current manpower must consist only of disciples recruited by jiang cheng during the sunshot campaign (1B), disciples recruited by jiang cheng after the conclusion of the sunshot campaign, and/or disciples drawn to yunmeng jiang by wei wuxian’s ghostly cultivation (1G). let’s first consider the quality / fighting power of the these disciples. as stated before, they all must have been recruited either during or after the sunshot campaign. given that it has only been a “few years” since the sunshot campaign’s conclusion, it is safe to conclude that these disciples (even the ones recruited at the earliest possible time, ie. during wartime) have received comparatively little formal training under yunmeng jiang relative to the disciples of other sects: either they are adults, most likely former rogue cultivators, coming in and learning the yunmeng jiang style of battle at a later point in their life, or they are juniors still learning to fight and cultivate at all. the yunmeng jiang disciples who grew up training alongside each other in a shared battle style no longer exist. therefore, i feel confident in concluding that the current body of yunmeng jiang disciples lacks the battle unity and familiarity with each other that disciples of other sects would have, which would make them a weaker fighting force than the disciples of other sects. 

in addition, a side note about the disciples drawn in postwar by wei wuxian specifically: given that wei wuxian himself repeated shows zero interest in teaching others ghostly cultivation (see how he ignores the would-be followers camped out on his doorstep once he starts living in the burial mounds), it is also safe to conclude that large swathes of the people drawn in by the promise of learning ghostly cultivation from wei wuxian cannot be relied upon the in long run; it’s likely they’ll leave once they realize wei wuxian isn’t going to teach them ghostly cultivation. 

second, there is also the fact that lotus pier, the seat of yunmeng jiang’s power, was occupied by qishan wen for significant portions of the sunshot campaign. a sect’s power comes not just from its manpower, but also from the money, books/texts, treasures, artifacts, and other resources in its possession. however, since yunmeng jiang’s seat of power and territories were all conquered by qishan wen at the beginning of the sunshot campaign, it is completely reasonable to conclude that yunmeng jiang’s resources were all stolen away by qishan wen. such is typical practice in warfare: when you take over parts of your enemy’s territory, you seize their resources for yourself. you feed their grain to your own troops and people, you spend their money to outfit your troops and fund your advances, you transport the choicest of their treasures back to your own domains; even as the enemy returns and chases you out of the lands you stole from them, you can still employ a tactic of total warfare and destroy what you can’t take with you so your enemy can’t have it. the most likely outcome by far is that, when jiang cheng returned to lotus pier, he found lotus pier’s coffers emptied and its treasuries looted. 

this then means that, upon the end of the sunshot campaign, yunmeng jiang must have been much poorer than all of the other great sects. now, a few years have passed, so it is likely that in that time jiang cheng was able to recoup some of lotus pier’s wartime losses. however, all of the other sects - all of the other great sects, especially, none of which were actively occupied in the same way yunmeng jiang was occupied - have been accumulating funds, treasures, books/texts, and other resources since their vey founding. there is simply no logical way jiang cheng could, in a mere handful of ears, accrue enough wealth to match the funds and resources of a sect that had never been conquered and plundered by an enemy. this goes doubly so for the jin sect. 

wealth is power. the fact that yunmeng jiang in this postwar period must have been poorer than the other great sects - poorer, in fact, than even the smaller sects that were never fully conquered - naturally entails that yunmeng jiang is in a weaker political position. 

third, let’s then consider yunmeng jiang’s political influence. i think it’s safe to conclude from the text itself that postwar yunmeng jiang’s political influence was diminished. instead of writing another few paragraphs about a conclusion i believe to be obvious, let’s just look at what happened in the story. the jin party that wei wuxian crashed, which pretty much every important player in the jianghu had been invited to (including characters like lan wangji, who actively dislikes events like these), did not include jiang cheng. he wasn’t invited. during the meeting in which everyone confronts jiang cheng, jin guangshan does not address jiang cheng like an equal: rather, he takes on a paternalistic, condescending tone of voice and continues to address jiang cheng in the way a benevolent superior addresses an inferior. even after jiang cheng leads the first siege of the burial mounds, the gossipers still refer to him as the “little sect leader.” all of this indicates a lack of respect for jiang cheng as a sect leader from the general public. the cultivation gentry looks at jiang cheng, this teenage leader, and does not respect him. and a lack of respect for a sect’s leader naturally translates into a lack of respect for the entire sect - which means that yunmeng jiang does not command the same political influence as the other great sects do. 

based on this analysis, i feel entirely confident in concluding that yunmeng jiang’s position postwar was severely weakened, and that yunmeng jiang did not have the same wealth, manpower, political influence, or security that the other great sects had. and yes, none of this is directly stated in the text. however, i have a brain and i have opened a history textbook before. i am capable of drawing conclusions with my own power from the events described in the text. and since MXTX chose a backstory as drastic as “the entire yunmeng jiang sect was wiped out and its territories subsequently occupied,” it is only natural that i would draw similarly drastic conclusions about events after this annihilation on my own - that i would look at other stories and real-life cases in which entire territories were wiped out and conquered, and conclude that the consequences that entailed in those situations would also entail here. perhaps MXTX expects us to understand that significant historical events have long-term ramifications and simply does not see the need to hand-hold us to that obvious conclusion. 

now, let’s think a bit more about yunmeng jiang’s position in comparison to the other great sects. here’s a repeat of some more of the facts listed above: 

1C: after the fall of qishan wen, there are four great sects remaining. a "great sect" is a sect that is more famous, more influential, and typically more powerful than the others in the jianghu; the great sects are considered leaders among the cultivation sects and the flow of power follows them.

1D: high-ranking members from the other three great sects - the lan, the jin, the nie - swore brothehood with each other after the sunshot campaign ended. these high-ranking members are sect leader lan xichen, sect leader nie mingjue, and sect leader jin guangshan's newly recognized war-hero son, jin guangyao.

1E: after the sunshot campaign, the lanling jin sect was the richest, most powerful, and most politically influential in the jianghu.

in other words, three of the four remaining great sects are now tied together via sworn brotherhood, which in turn entails a long-term alliance between them. doubly so, since 2 out of the 3 member of the sworn brotherhood are literally the leaders of their sects. yunmeng jiang, in turn, has not been included in this triumvirate; instead, apart from a tenuous engagement between jiang yanli and jin zixuan (which will go up in smoke if yunmeng jiang formally stands with wei wuxian), yunmeng jiang stands alone. 

now, it would be one thing if there were twenty or so great sects - then it would just appear as if three great sects whose high-profile members are good friends have tied themselves together via alliance. however, as things currently are, there are only four great sects. therefore, three of the four great sects forming an alliance is also going to draw attention to the last of the four sects, because the fact that it was excluded is now blatantly obvious. third-party observers watching this sworn brotherhood will naturally wonder: why was the fourth great sect excluded? why did zewu-jun, chifeng-zun, and lianfang-zun choose to exclude yunmeng jiang? does this not mean that yunmeng jiang now stands alone? 

there is also the more simple and obvious fact that, if yunmeng jiang and lanling jin ever do have a formal dispute, then gusu land and qinghe nie will be expected to side with lanling jin. this, plus the fact that postwar lanling jin is the strongest and richest of all the sects (due to having avoided the brunt of the war), means that if it ever comes down to it, the vast majority of all the other sects are also going to stand with lanling jin, against yunmeng jiang. 

this is all to say that, yunmeng jiang’s political position at this moment is incredibly weak. and that, if there ever were a real dispute between lanling jin and yunmeng jiang, yunmeng jiang - a weak yunmeng jiang - would stand alone. 

of course, as you said, none of this is stated directly in the book. however, as i said above, i am capable of drawing my own conclusions regarding the political situation from the information the book does give us. from my own experience in studying history, watching historical cdramas and other such fiction, and just in living my own life as a member of society, the above are what the established facts of the situation entail for yunmeng jiang’s postwar situation. more accurately, the above is what the given facts about the situation entail if we follow the rules of politics that the vast majority of both fiction and real-life history follow. if MXTX intended for us to come to a different conclusion, then she should have directly established that the politics of her setting differ vastly from politics everywhere else. 

now, let me discuss my second point, which is my disagreement with the following claim: "jiang cheng’s actions (or lack of actions) in the meeting scene were driven primarily by emotions of resentment, anger at being disrespected by wei wuxian, and hatred of the wens; considerations and fears of political ramifications for yunmeng jiang did not enter into his thinking."

in order for me to explain what i mean, i must first explain how i approach the analysis of fiction. the way i see it, most fictional stories about a series of events occurring tend to include at least the following:

the concrete events that occurred

the conclusions you are supposed to draw about the characters and situation from aforementioned concrete events

now, when it comes to forming my own analysis of the text as the reader, i generally cannot disagree with #1 (unless i'm willing to argue something along the lines of "it was all a dream"). however, when it comes to #2, i as the reader have the right to disagree with the conclusions the author is trying to pull me towards. for example, even if the text itself states "events A, B, and C occurred, and they entail only D about [character]," i am still free to instead conclude that, based on my own understanding of [character] and of events A, B, and C, that said events entail both D and E.

i have the right to disagree with the conclusions the author intends for me to draw from the text because - while the author's own intent does exist - once the story is released into the world, the only thing that exists is the text of the story itself. the author's own comments about how they intend for their work to be read should no longer hold weight to readers forming their own analyses of the story. furthermore, i think that this same reasoning applies to analytical statements present in the text itself. for example, if the text directly states "A is not to blame for XYZ occurring," but the rest of the text clearly shows a cause-and-effect relationship between A's actions and XYZ, then i am free to disagree with the text and conclude that A is in fact at least somewhat to blame for XYZ occurring.

the fact is that you as the reader are not coming into the work as a pure-white piece of paper. rather, when you read a work, you bring into it your own experiences and knowledge accrued from a lifetime of living in a society with other people. intelligently engaging with a work of fiction entails not just blindly accepting everything the author tells you about the story's events; rather, if the story features a series of events you can follow, you should use your own brain to draw your own conclusions about said events - even if your own conclusions may disagree with those of the author.

now let me explain how this reasoning applies to my reading of jiang cheng’s situation in MDZS. in order to explain what i mean, i will apply the above framework i provided (ie. #1: the concrete events that occurred, and #2: the conclusions you are supposed to draw about the characters and situation from aforementioned concrete events). 

ONE: here are the concrete facts we are given about the postwar political situation. several of these are repeated from the above earlier analysis. 

1A: the yunmeng jiang sect was almost completely annihilated by the qishan wen sect immediately before the sunshot campaign's beginning. this includes all of yunmeng jiang’s leadership, elders, disciples both senior and junior - basically everyone except wei wuxian, jiang cheng, and jiang yanli. in addition, during the earlier half of the sunshot campaign, lotus pier was occupied by qishan wen. 

1B: during the sunshot campaign, sect leader jiang wanyin recruited enough new disciples to yunmeng jiang to allow him to retake lotus pier.

1C: after the fall of qishan wen, there are four great sects remaining. a "great sect" is a sect that is more famous, more influential, and typically more powerful than the others in the jianghu; the great sects are considered leaders among the cultivation sects and the flow of power tends to follow them.

1D: high-ranking members from the other three great sects - the lan, the jin, the nie - swore brothehood with each other after the sunshot campaign ended. these high-ranking members are sect leader lan xichen, sect leader nie mingjue, and sect leader jin guangshan's newly recognized war-hero son, jin guangyao.

1E: after the sunshot campaign, the lanling jin sect was the richest, most powerful, and most politically influential in the jianghu.

ONE: here are the concrete facts we are given about wei wuxian's recent actions:

1F: wei wuxian has been flouting social convention by refusing to carry his sword anywhere. wei wuxian responds to provocations with rather arrogant bluster.

1G: wei wuxian's ghostly cultivation has attracted a number of new disciples to yunmeng jiang. however, wei wuxian's ghostly cultivation is also increasingly attracting critics.

1H: in order to locate wen ning, wei wuxian stormed into a party hosted by the lanling jin (at which jiang cheng was not present), threatened everyone at the party, compared lanling jin to qishan wen, and threatened jin zixun into telling him wen ning's whereabouts.

1I: wei wuxian killed at least four jin supervisors at the qiongqi pass labor camp. wei wuxian escaped from the qiongqi pass labor camp with the wen remnants in tow, fled to the burial mounds, and erected a shield of fierce corpses around the burial mounds to prevent anyone from following him in.

TWO: here is your analysis as to what i think we are meant to conclude about jiang cheng's motives here:

2A: the text in these scenes focuses heavily on jiang cheng's anger and ill feeling, as well as his hatred of the wen.

2B: the text in these scenes also focuses on jiang cheng's ill feelings over wei wuxian supposedly not respecting jiang cheng's authority and undermining him as leader.

now, here is where i express my own thoughts on the matter. if what we are meant to conclude about jiang cheng's immediate reactions to wei wuxian's actions (ie. jiang cheng’s behavior during the meeting in which everyone confronted him over wei wuxian's attack on the qiongqi pass labor camp, and his subsequent confrontation of wei wuxian at the burial mounds) is that he was driven primarily by personal emotions such as anger and hatred, then i disagree. as i explained above, the facts of this situation and the greater political landscape indicate to me that there are in fact a lot of political concerns to be had. furthermore, the text has already established that jiang cheng is someone who is highly considerate of potential consequences and therefore rather conservative in his action-taking. therefore, i consider the claim of "in refusing to stand up for wei wuxian and the wen remnants, jiang cheng was motivated primarily by emotions of resentment, anger, and hatred" to be fallacious. the idea that someone as considerate of consequences as jiang cheng would not give any consideration to the political ramifications that, to me, are incredibly obvious, simply does not make logical sense. 

first, as i explained above, yunmeng jiang’s postwar position during this scene must logically still be quite weak. furthermore, facts 1H and 1I under point ONE indicate to me that wei wuxian has quite thoroughly alienated lanling jin. since wei wuxian is yunmeng jiang’s first disciple and not just some no-name rando, this means that wei wuxian’s actions are also considered on the political stage to be representative of not just himself but rather his entire sect. this then means that all of yunmeng jiang is on the hook for wei wuxian’s actions. this is why jiang cheng, the leader of yunmeng jiang, is called to the meeting with all the other sect leaders to provide accountability for what wei wuxian has done. 

based on this, we can conclude that yunmeng jiang during this scene is in fact in a very dangerous position. that, if jiang cheng does not give the jianghu the proper indication that he does not approve of wei wuxian’s actions, then it will be all of yunmeng jiang and not just wei wuxian himself who has made an enemy of lanling jin. lanling jin might verbally say in this scene that “oh, it’s fine, it’s just that wei wuxian also killed/hurt cultivators from other sects…” but you cannot take that at face value. 

now, as you said in your reply, and as i repeated above under point TWO, perhaps what MXTX may intend for us to conclude is that jiang cheng’s behavior during that meeting was dictated primarily by his emotions of resentment, hatred for the wens, and anger at wei wuxian for not respecting his authority; that, while the political ramifications were there, jiang cheng in that scene was not thinking about said political ramifications for his sect and everyone in it. the narration in that scene does, after all, only mention jiang cheng’s negative emotions, and no any other actual reasoning. 

it is true that jiang cheng is feeling a lot of exhaustion, anger, agitation, and hatred for the wens in that scene. nie mingjue’s rebuke reminded him of the lotus pier massacre, which naturally inflamed his anger. jin guangshan and everyone else’s barbs about wei wuxian also dig into jiang cheng’s most heavily-felt insecurities: that wei wuxian doesn’t actually care about him or yunmeng jiang, that wei wuxian wants to leave. (regarding hatred towards the wens versus a debt of gratitude towards the wen siblings specifically: what’s interesting is that while we and wei wuxian know that wen ning only came to lotus pier after hearing about the lotus pier massacre, specifically because he wanted to check on wei wuxian, nothing in the text indicates that jiang cheng knows this. it is entirely likely that all jiang cheng knows about the situation is that wen ning had also been at lotus pier. from this, it would then be entirely plausible for jiang cheng to conclude that wen ning had come with wen chao and participated, no matter how reluctantly, in the massacre of lotus pier.) 

however, if MXTX intends for us to conclude that ONLY these emotions were driving jiang cheng’s actions, and that he was not concerned about his sect in this scene, then i disagree with what MXTX intends for me to conclude about that situation. and, as i explained above, as the reader this disagreement is my right. 

here is where i must say something unfortunate: in comparison to other works i’ve read, i find the political worldbuilding of MDZS to be incredibly lackluster. there are no shortage of holes in the worldbuilding that introduce logical fallacies and contradictions into the story. for example, the story establishes that sects in MDZS are based on lineage and not ability (as is typically the case in xianxia and wuxia stories); despite the importance this would then naturally lend to establishing a solid line of succession, none of the great sect leaders post-timeskip save jin guangyao are married. this, to me, is a worldbuilding plot hole. as another example, wen zhuliu’s core-melting hand is a complete game-changer when it comes not just to warfare, but to the intersect political landscape in general - the ability to permanently destroy a golden core in a setting in which cultivation ability affects one’s political power should be priceless, and everyone should be seeking to replicate it at least in secret. and yet, despite this, no one other than wen ruohan himself really seems to care about the fact that it is possible to melt golden cores; post-timeskip, it just never gets brought up again. this, to me, is another worldbuilding plot hole. and as yet another example, where is the emperor in this world? who leads the non-jianghu portion of society? how did they react to the sunshot campaign between the cultivation sects? typically, both xianxia and wuxia works do also give at least some consideration to the non-jianghu portions of their settings (by sheer logical necessity), and relations with the emperor and various other non-cultivating political bodies will factor into the plot or setting somewhat; that MDZS instead does not mention any emperor at all is rather unusual. and this, to me, is yet another way in which the worldbuilding is lacking - another way that shows that MXTX did not fully consider the ramifications when she created her fictional world. 

that i find the worldbuilding in MDZS to be rather lackluster then means that i cannot fully trust the conclusions MXTX intends me to draw from the events she describes (ie. point TWO above). when i read a work like ASOIAF, i trust GRRM when he tells me “these are the things the characters in this political situation should be concerned about,” because the author clearly HAS put a lot of thought into how the politics between the various factions work and what kind of ramifications different actions would have for the characters. but when MXTX tries to tell me “the characters in this situation should be only concerned about XYZ” or “this character is only concerned about XYZ in this situation,” i cannot have the same trust in her - because her faulty worldbuilding indicates to me that there are ramifications she did not consider, and that if i am to assess the concrete events of the story, then i must discover those ramifications myself, as i have done above. 

therefore, if the conclusion i am meant to draw from jiang cheng’s meeting scene really is that “jiang cheng acted the way he did purely out of anger and hatred of the wens, and was not thinking about political consequences at all,” then i disagree. then i disagree with MXTX. because to me, not just jiang cheng (who has been previously established to be a rather cautious and conservative person), but any politician with two braincells to rub together would have realized that he was in an incredibly dangerous political situation. because the facts of the situation is that his errant high-ranking subordinate has just alienated the largest and most powerful political organization in their field, one much stronger than his own organization and in possession of connections to other stronger political organizations as well - because the facts of the situation is that his subordinate’s actions have just put his own organization onto a collision course with this stronger organization, unless he rectifies this situation immediately. this is something even someone with a middle-school understanding of history and politics can conclude. and if the politics in MDZS do not function the same way as politics do in reality, then MXTX should have directly established that beforehand. 

if we are really meant to conclude that jiang cheng was not thinking about political ramifications for his sect - and being concerned “for one’s sect” means being concerned for the people and disciples who comprise of that sect, because sects are made of people - then either jiang cheng is the stupidest character in the entire story by far, or MDZS itself as a story is much less intelligent than i imagined. 

this is rather harsh, so let’s look at the text of the story again. i do think it is also entirely reasonable to conclude that jiang cheng was in fact also concerned with the political ramifications of wei wuxian’s actions for yunmeng jiang, that he was concerned about what would happen to his sect (ie. the disciples and other people in his sect, because sects are made of people) as a result. 

for one, jiang cheng typically loves arguing and reacting to provocations, and the angrier he gets, the more he runs his mouth. jiang cheng is very angry and upset in that scene; yet, he is also unusually reticent with his words: he only really speaks when someone addresses him specifically, and even then he speaks as though with great reluctance and is unusually sparse with his words. there is also an entire middle section in the scene where jiang cheng doesn’t say anything at all: in the scene where mianmian speaks up and everyone jumps on her, jiang cheng doesn’t have any lines at all. all this indicates to me that jiang cheng himself is uncertain how to navigate this situation. that he didn’t say anything during mianmian’s portion of the scene because he was hanging back to observe how the political winds were blowing, and how someone who directly stood up for wei wuxian would fare in the current political situation. and that, while he was also angry and hateful, he just did not know how to best approach this situation at all. 

for two, regarding what jin guangshan says to jiang cheng at the end of the meeting scene (copy/pasted from your reply): 

Jin GuangShan continued, “Sect Leader Jiang, you’re not like your father. It’s just been a couple of years since the reestablishment of the YunmengJiang Sect, precisely when you should be displaying your power. And he doesn’t even know to avoid suspicions. What would the Jiang Sect’s new disciples think if they saw him? Don’t tell me you’d let them see him as their role model and look down on you?”

to me, this did read as a veiled threat. jin guangshan right now is trying to play the benevolent figure - he wants wen ruohan’s power but does not want the public to perceive him as another wen ruohan - therefore, he is not going to jump out and directly start threatening people. thus, when analyzing jin guangshan’s words, i think it’s important to not just take what he says at face value, but rather to read between the lines and see what he’s implying without saying outright. we must also consider who else is present when jin guangshan speaks: who else is present to hear jin guangshan’s words? who else is present to hear what jin guangshan is implying about jiang cheng here? 

the line “Sect Leader Jiang, you’re not like your father. It’s just been a couple of years since the reestablishment of the YunmengJiang Sect, precisely when you should be displaying your power” serves two functions. first, it reminds jiang cheng of the sect he has worked so hard to rebuild. by bringing up yunmeng jiang specifically, jin guangshan reminds jiang cheng that he has something to lose. second, in saying that “you’re not like your father,” this line also reminds jiang cheng and everyone else present that, while the yunmeng jiang sect might have been strong and secure in the past, this is no longer the case. that it has “just been a couple of years since the reestablishment of the YunmengJiang Sect” implies that yunmeng jiang is nowhere as strong as it used to be - therefore, yunmeng jiang cannot afford to freely act as it used to. this line is a reminder to both jiang cheng himself and everyone else present that, right now, yunmeng jiang is weak. 

the next lines - “And he doesn’t even know to avoid suspicions. What would the Jiang Sect’s new disciples think if they saw him? Don’t tell me you’d let them see him as their role model and look down on you?” - in turn call into question jiang cheng’s authority as leader of yunmeng jiang. through this line, jin guangshan restates what everyone has already been saying during this conversation: namely, that jiang cheng failed to rein in wei wuxian, that jiang cheng does not have the ability to make wei wuxian obey him. since jiang cheng is literally wei wuxian’s leader, this naturally implies that jiang cheng does not have the ability to effectively lead yunmeng jiang. which goes further to establish to the rest of the audience also listening to this that yunmeng jiang is weak. 

the last line, “Don’t tell me you’d let them see him as their role model and look down on you?”, is especially interesting, because to me it is the most threatening. by asking jiang cheng in front of the rest of the jianghu if he’d “let” (and that word choice is key) his other disciples also do as wei wuxian did, jin guangshan is raising the possibility of more wei wuxians in the future. he’s raising the idea that, since jiang cheng is too weak and incompetent to keep his disciples under control, in the near future there will be other disciples who do as wei wuxian did - hence the word choice of “role model”. and since what wei wuxian did was directly attack the holdings of another sect, something that must be fresh in the minds of everyone present, this raises to the rest of the audience the possibility that jiang cheng’s incompetence as leader will lead to more errant jiang disciples imitating wei wuxian and attacking their holdings as well. 

the question of “don’t tell me you’d let them see him as their role model and look down on you?” may seem like it’s only targeting jiang cheng’s pride, but that’s a surface-level reading. it’s not just that future jiang disciples might also disrespect jiang cheng as wei wuxian did; rather, the word choice of “role model” specifically reminds the audience of just how wei wuxian’s disrespect of jiang cheng’s authority manifested: as violence towards another sect. the fact that jin guangshan is saying this in front of an entire audience, and not just to jiang cheng in private, matters quite a bit! thus, when jin guangshan asks jiang cheng: “don’t tell me you’d let them see [wei wuxian] as their role model and look down on you?” and jiang cheng replies that he will rectify the situation, jiang cheng isn’t just saying that he wants his future disciples to obey his authority. jiang cheng is also saying that he will not let a situation like this, in which one of his disciples attacked the holdings of another sect, happen again - which is what he must prove to the other sects in order to avoid the other sects banding against him. 

finally, let’s look at what jiang cheng himself says to wei wuxian two days later, when he flies to the burial mounds to directly confront wei wuxian. 

“I’m the one who wants to fucking beat your ass!” Jiang Cheng snapped back. “Yes, they helped us. But why can’t you understand that the surviving Wens are public targets? It doesn’t matter who they are—they’re reprehensible simply by dint of bearing that family name! And anyone who defends them is risking universal condemnation! Everyone hates the Wen dogs, everyone wants them to die in the worst possible ways. Anyone who defends them is setting themselves against the rest of the world. No one will speak for them, and there won’t be anyone who will speak for you!”  “I don’t need anyone to speak for me,” Wei Wuxian declared. Jiang Cheng was furious. “Why are you so stubborn? If you can’t do it, then move! I’ll do it!”  Wei Wuxian’s hold on him tightened, his fingers like an iron shackle. “Jiang Wanyin!”  “Wei Wuxian!” Jiang Cheng yelled. “Don’t you get it? When you’re on their side, you’re a strange hero, a unique knight-errant, a force to be reckoned with who’s in a league of his own. But the second you voice an opinion that differs from theirs, you’re a maniac, immoral, a deviant who shuns the orthodox path. Do you really think you can just ignore them? Wander out and about in the secular world and live a carefree life? There is no such precedent!”  “If there’s no such precedent, then I’ll be the first!” Wei Wuxian yelled. The two locked eyes. Their weapons had been drawn, and neither was willing to be the first to concede.  After a few moments, Jiang Cheng tried again. “Wei Wuxian, do you still not understand the situation we’re in? Do I have to spell it out for you? If you’re determined to protect them, then I won’t be able to protect you.” 

MDZS Seven Seas translation, Vol. 4, Chapter 16: The Unruly

first, i do not think that jiang cheng’s reasoning in this scene has changed significantly from his reasoning during the earlier meeting scene. for one, a mere two days isn’t much time to dramatically alter one’s thinking, especially since it’s highly unlikely jiang cheng spent those two days sitting on his ass contemplating things. for two, jiang cheng is not the sort of person who calms down and becomes more reasonable if you give him time to cool off. instead, he only becomes angrier and angrier as time passes, dwelling on grievances and troubles and letting his feelings of discontent swell - therefore, if jiang cheng was already being primarily driven by emotions of anger and hatred in the earlier meeting scene, then he would be much more angry and hateful in this scene. 

if that were the case, jiang cheng would be yelling something radically different at wei wuxian. if jiang cheng really was just furious that he had to apologize to the whole cultivation world, if he were just angry about wei wuxian publicly disregarding his authority and disrespecting him, then he would be primarily yelling at wei wuxian for embarrassing him when wei wuxian owes the jiang so much. he would certainly bring up the argument that, since the jiang family took wei wuxian off the streets, wei wuxian owes it to the jiang to obey them, rather than be ungrateful and run wild. and if jiang cheng really was just being hateful towards the wen remnants for the massacre of lotus pier, then he would have brought it up in this argument: he would have yelled all sorts of shit about how the wen remnants were still from the family that annihilated his own, how dare wei wuxian protect the blood of the people who massacred those who took him in, etc etc. 

but jiang cheng does not say this. jiang cheng does not say anything about how the wens are the family that massacred the jiang, or that wei wuxian owes the jiang for taking him in, or any of that bullshit. and while jiang cheng does in fact give wei wuxian some shit for putting jiang cheng in this situation, he moves on pretty quickly to the actual brunt of his argument: what i quoted above, wherein jiang cheng says that wei wuxian cannot politically afford to protect the wen remnants and survive. 

to me, these are jiang cheng’s honest thoughts. when jiang cheng says that the wen remnants are hated by the entire cultivation world, and that anyone who stands up for the wen remnants will become a public enemy as well, that is his honest assessment of the current situation. when jiang cheng says that protecting the wen remnants will doom wei wuxian to be crucified by the rest of society, that is what he honestly thinks is going to happen. and when jiang cheng says that if wei wuxian insists on protecting the wen remnants, then jiang cheng cannot - not will not, but cannot - protect wei wuxian, those are his honest feelings. i think that one line - “if you’re determined to protect them, then i won’t be able to protect you” - is the most emotionally honest jiang cheng has been across both of these scenes. 

and, to me, these must have been jiang cheng’s thoughts during the earlier meeting scene as well. it seems highly unlikely that he’d only come up with this line of reasoning during the two days between the meeting and this confrontation at the burial mounds, since the conclusion of “the wen remnants are currently public enemy number 1, and anyone who defends them will become a public enemy as well” is already fairly obvious given the existing postwar political situation. it’s possible that he concluded some of the above after watching everyone turn on mianmian, but i think that’s really only plausible if he was already thinking along these pragmatic lines to begin with. 

therefore, i think that we can also reasonably conclude from the text itself (and not just common sense) that jiang cheng was in fact also concerned about political repercussions when everyone confronted him during that meeting, and not just acting on hateful emotions. for one, as i explained above, multiple hints in the text suggest that the situation was in fact highly threatening, that both jin guangshan and jiang cheng knew this, and that jiang cheng was concerned for pragmatic reasons and not just hater reasons. for two, if MXTX did in fact intend for me to conclude that jiang cheng was acting based purely on his hater emotions, then i myself consider that intended conclusion to be in contradiction with both the political situation at hand and with jiang cheng’s previously established character, which must be intelligent enough to perceive said obvious political situation at hand. 

in the above section, i have explained why i conclude that 1. yunmeng jiang’s postwar position was quite weak, and 2. jiang cheng was in fact also concerned about political repercussions to his sect during the meeting scene, and was not just acting on hater emotions. 

regarding the rest of your points. for one, you’re correct in that it’s not as if more stridently speaking up in the wen siblings’ defense would guarantee the public sees jiang cheng as condoning wei wuxian’s actions. that wasn’t really what i was trying to say, either. instead, what i meant to say was that such is a reasonable concern for anyone in jiang cheng’s delicate political position to have. jiang cheng himself erred on the side of safety and conservative action by staying relatively quiet, and he did so because he did not have the requisite political experience to balance at once properly speaking for the wen siblings and also securely keep his own sect out of the line of fire. 

for two, i don’t think lan xichen can be relied upon to speak in wen qing’s defense, either. this may be straying from what you were trying to say, but in my view, lan xichen brought up wen qing’s relative innocence less because he genuinely thought she was innocent, and moreso just as a potential point of consideration. when nie mingjue challenged him, lan xichen also backed down immediately, more interested in not triggering nie mingjue’s wrath than in properly defending wen qing. this indicates to me that the position of “wen qing was innocent during the sunshot campaign” is not one that lan xichen himself strongly supports, either; instead, it’s just something he sort of considered, and was willing to immediately drop. 

at any rate. all of this is to say that, while you’re free to side-eye jiang cheng as much as you please, i also think that most people in jiang cheng’s position would not do much better than him. that jiang cheng weathered this political shitstorm without dooming yunmeng jiang alongside wei wuxian, whether on purpose for Noble Idiot reasons or simply by accident, is in my view already quite miraculous. 

haterisms beneath the cut

this hater poll brought to you by....a series of Bad Mcfucking Takes i had to read with my own eyeballs. seriously did we read the same book or not.

explanations:

"jiang cheng killed wei wuxian": jiang cheng did not kill wei wuxian in any version of the story. in mdzs wei wuxian died from backlash and in cql wei wuxin chose to let go of lan wangji after jiang cheng stabbed the cliff face. you can argue till the cows come home about how responsible jiang cheng is for wei wuxian's demise, but "jiang cheng killed wei wuxian" is just factually incorrect.

"jiang cheng abuses jin ling": jiang cheng does not abuse jin ling. first, the narration goes out of its way to establish that jiang cheng does not hit jin ling, specifically in a setting where hitting children is normalized and expected. in fact, wei wuxian says that jin ling is bratty specifically because he's never been hit. second, jin ling is also clearly comfortable talking back to jiang cheng and needling him in a way jiang cheng definitely was not with his own parents. even when jiang cheng is actively losing it when he captures wei wuxian in qinghe, jin ling remains completely unruffled - which speaks to how much jin ling takes for granted that he is safe with jiang cheng.

"jiang cheng could have easily helped the wen remnants, he just didn't": antis love to act like yunmeng jiang could have easily taken in the wemnants and jiang cheng simply chose not to because he was a hater/super jelly/various synonyms for ontologically evil. which is not the fucking case. learn to read. yunmeng jiang's own position post sunshot was very weak - they were a great sect in name only and were excluded from the alliance tying the three other great sects together - and jiang cheng could not politically afford to protect wei wuxian after wei wuxian alienated lanling jin. that's why jiang cheng says "if you insist on doing this, i can't protect you," and why wei wuxian then tells jiang cheng to let him go. because they both understand this. come on

"jiang cheng forced jiang yanli to marry jin zixuan": jiang yanli as a character makes so many sacrifices for her family and her brothers. her relationship with zixuan is like the one thing she chooses for herself. she loves him!! the tragedy in wei wuxian killing jin zixuan is that yanli genuinely loved zixuan!! ngl i think antis argue this purely to try to exonerate wei wuxian: if jiang yanli didn't love jin zixuan then wei wuxian donutting him isn't a problem anymore, apparently. this is the result of people thinking of jiang yanli as purely a thing for wei wuxian, rather than a human being in her own right.

"jiang cheng should have protected wei wuxian from yu ziyuan": this one is annoying because jiang cheng was also a child. when a child is abused, it is the fault of the abuser, not the fault of another child who is also subject to the whims of the abuser. come on.

[shaykhpod-blog]

PODHADITH: TRUE NOBILITY

In a Hadith found in Sunan Abu Dawud, number 5116, the Holy Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him, clearly warned that nobility does not lie in one's lineage as all people are the descendants of the Holy Prophet Adam, peace be upon him, and he was made of dust. Therefore, people should give up boasting about their relatives and lineage.

 It is important to understand that even though some ignorant muslims have adopted the attitude of other nations by creating castes and sects thereby believing some people are superior to others based on these groups Islam declared a simple criterion for superiority namely, piety. Meaning, the more a muslim fulfills the commands of Allah, the Exalted, refrains from His prohibitions and faces destiny with patience the greater they are in rank in the sight of Allah, the Exalted. Chapter 49 Al Hujurat, verse 13:

  “…Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you…”

 This verse alone destroys all other standards which have been created by ignorant by people such as one’s race, ethnicity, wealth, gender or social status.

  In addition, if a muslim is proud of a pious person in their lineage they should correctly demonstrate this belief by praising Allah, the Exalted, and following in their footsteps. Boasting about others without following in their footsteps will not help someone in either this world or the next. This has been made clear in a Hadith found in Jami At Tirmidhi, number 2945.

 Finally, the one who is proud of others but fails to follow in their footsteps is indirectly dishonoring them as the outside world will observe their bad character and assume their righteous ancestor behaved in the same manner. These people should therefore strive harder in the obedience of Allah, the Exalted, because of this reason. These are like those people who adopt the outward traditions and advice of the Holy Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him, such as growing a beard or wearing a scarf yet, fail to adopt his inner character. The outside world will only think negatively about the Holy Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him, when they observe the bad character of these muslims.

  PodHadith Complete Set eBook: https://shaykhpod.files.wordpress.com/2023/02/podhadith-complete-vols-1-17.pdf

  OVER 130 FREE SHAYKHPOD EBOOKS:

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     #Allah #ShaykhPod #Islam  #Quran  #Hadith #Nobility  #Prophet #Muhammad  #Sunnah #Piety    #Taqwa #Ancestors   #Lineage    #Equality   #Sects   #BrotherHoods   #Clans   #Honor

[lvdbbooks]

2021年6月4日

【新入荷・新本】

『IN/SECTS Vol.13 特集 NEW 'BOOK SHOP' CULTURE 書店に見る、商いのカタチ』（LLCインセクツ、2021年）

価格 ：1,870円（税込）

/

Covid-19のパンデミック発生からはや1年。大手から零細まで全ての企業、個人事業主、人が、商いの方法を少なからず変化させる必要に迫られた年でした。

雑誌「IN/SECTS」を発行する私たち LLC INSECTSも同じく岐路に立ち、自社の出版事業の拡大へと舵を切り始めました。そして、自分たちの周りを眺めてみれば、私たちのすぐそばにいる小売業、書店でも新たな動きが地方から、始まっているように思います。

商いのみならず、働くということも含めた新生活が、そこにはあるのでは？ という期待を胸に、今号ではNEW `BOOK SHOP' CULTURE と題して、さまざまな書店の今に注目してみます。

/

＜CONTENTS＞

●グラビア 馬馬虎虎特別編 檀上遼 ●新潮流・出版する書店 誠光社／Folk old book store／READAN DEAT and more… ●スタンダードブックストアのホンマの話 ●寄稿「次の大仕事を妄想する」 内沼晋太郎 ●ホホホ座浄土寺店 山下賢二さんインタビュー 「ガケ書房の頃からホホホ座へ」 ●Voyage Kids 超個人的な新世界のローカル書店 ●書と立ち飲み レボリューションブックスの過ごし方 ●寄稿「私とシカク。」 スズキナオ ●etc.books特別対談「フェミニズム書店はインクルーシブな書店!?」 松尾亜紀子×柚木麻子 ●寄稿「僕が汽水空港を営む理由」モリテツヤ ●古本屋弐拾dBのちいさなチャレンジ ●なタ書的古本屋の営み方 ●H.A.Bのひとり出版・流通・販売 ●福岡・地元ライター緊急レポート「都心の芸術書店と郊外のマルチ書店主たちは“接点”でつながる」 山田祐一郎 ●SUNNY BOY BOOKS 沖縄移住とリモート経営 ●新しい“街の本屋” TOUTEN BOOKSTORE ●LVDB BOOKSのアティチュード

・編集部が注目するBOOK SHOP 本屋ルヌガンガ、YATO、PEOPLE BOOKSTORE、Readin' Writin'、一月と六月、toi books、開風社 待賢ブックセンター、石引パブリック、らくだ舎、blackbird books、1003、ブックスキューブリック、SHIBUYA PUBLISHING & BOOKSELLERS、nostos books、カストリ書房、artos Book Store、BOOKS AND PRINTS、オヨヨ書林、本屋プラグ、ba hütte. 、恵文社一乗寺店、REBEL BOOKS、WHEELACTION BOOKSTORE、つるかめ書房、乃帆書房、MINOU BOOKS & CAFE、kuramoto、本屋イトマイ、とほん、Title、And books、Calo Bookshop and Cafe

・あの人の街の読書スポット

・緊急事態宣言下 書店員のリレー日記

・コラム「私と書店」 藤野可織／前田エマ／綾女欣伸／三島邦弘（ミシマ社）／福永 信／増田 薫（思い出野郎Aチーム）

https://www.insec2.com/

[violetdisasterzone]

ooh good question! I don't believe there's an explicit answer as to when in PIDW's canon/post-canon that extra happens, or what age Bing-ge is during any PIDW event, but we do have some relevant info that could answer some things.

Bing-mei and Bing-ge are identical (Shen Qingqiu is still a dumbass though don't worry). When Bing-ge first appears, Shen Qingqiu is shocked at the fact that he's injured and doesn't pay attention to his face

But Shen Qingqiu failed to notice [Bing-ge's change in expression]. All he could see at that moment was the fresh blood drenching Luo Binghe's face and body. vol. 4, ch. 22, pg. 13

At one point Shen Qingqiu also thinks this, but it's more in reference to Bing-mei's scars than his overall appearance

In the end, he and Luo Binghe were too unfamiliar with each other's bodies. That was why it had taken him so long to figure out what was wrong here. vol. 4, ch 22, pg. 35

Then there's the fact that Ning Yingying, Ming Fan, and Liu Qingge also all saw Luo Binghe and didn't notice anything amiss.

And then of course, there's also the fact that we are literally told they're identical

Within the Bamboo House were two identical people with the same exact face. Other than one being dressed in white, the other in black, there was not a single discernable difference between them vol. 4, ch. 22, pg. 34

A look of disbelief flashed over that impossibly familiar face, and in that instant, Shen Qingqiu actually found it all somewhat unbearable. vol. 4, ch. 22, pg 46 (this page and the next are soo sweet they make me want to cry ugh)

In terms of age, at this point, Bing-mei would be about 25 years old. 14 at the start of svsss > 17 at the Immortal Alliance Conference > 20 at Jin Lan City > ~25 when Shen Qingqiu comes back to life. And then this extra is immediately (almost exactly 2 weeks, according to the first two pages of the extra) post-canon.

Bing-ge's age is a bit less clear though. In PIDW, he also goes into the Endless Abyss at 17, but after he finds Xin Mo and breaks his own seal with it, "he single-mindedly cultivated and enlightened himself to otherworldly techniques before heading back to Cang Qiong Mountain Sect" (vol. 1, ch. 1, pg. 11-12) after a total of 5 years in the Abyss, making him 22. It was at this point that he presumably captured Shen Jiu. We know Shen Jiu was then tortured horribly and eventually died of his wounds. Though I can't find out exactly when he actually passed away, if that's specified anywhere, presumably it was before the conclusion of PIDW. So that gives us some relative understanding of this extra based on a couple things:

First, during the punishment protocol after the Zhao Hua Monastery drama, the scene is a destroyed Qing Jing Peak, so we could assume that Bing-ge has already destroyed Cang Qiong, which happened after Yue Qingyuan died (see qijiu extra, vol. 4 ch. 24). And if I had to guess, I'd say that happened no more than a decade after Shen Jiu's initial capture, so Bing-ge would be around early-mid 30s (already older than Bing-mei). Second, in that scene Bing-ge is surprised to see Shen Qingqiu in the dream realm, not surprised that he's alive (vol. 3, ch. 18), so Shen Jiu hadn't died of his wounds at that point yet. Again, the main problem here is that, to my knowledge, the actual amount of time between all of these events is not specified. But it's still relevant because of this quote from the showdown extra:

The original's expression suddenly gentled as he looked at Shen Qingqiu. "Shizun, do you blame me for making things too painful last time?" Luo Binghe went wide-eyed. "Shizun, you've met him before?" If an encounter in the System counted as a meeting, then that was a yes. vol. 4, ch. 22, pg. 42

So, we know sort-of where this occurred in relation to some PIDW events. It's possible, of course, that a significant amount of time had passed between their first interaction during the punishment protocol and this extra, and it was just such a memorable experience that Bing-ge had been thinking about it the whole time or watched it happen when he was sifting through Shen Qingqiu's memories while he slept. But, unless I'm missing or forgot something, there's really no way to know for sure.

As for both Binghes being immortal: we know that Heavenly Demons are resistant to poison, illness, injury, and are nearly impossible to kill. Exhibit A: Tianlang-Jun being "sealed beneath a great mountain, trapped for all eternity" (vol. 1, ch. 1, pg. 11). That being said, we know that Airplane-bro didn't actually have a good understanding of cultivation novels and the correct stages and traits of cultivators and "immortals." From what I understand, immortality for cultivators is more like a conscious, continuous effort of cultivating and keeping yourself young, which brings the ability to live wayyy longer than regular civilians, but not necessarily actual immortality outside of ascension. It wouldn't be a stretch to apply those same ideas to Heavenly Demons. And there's also the Holy Mausoleum, which houses the bodies of deceased Saintly Rulers, so some of them had to have died at some point. But I do think it's likely that Binghe will look around the same age for a long long time.

op I am so sorry I dumped this all on your joke post 😭 if you read all this I hope it answered you lmao

hang on everyone. In the extras, is bing-ge:

about the same age as bing-mei hence why sqq couldnt tell them apart

older than bing-mei but immortality so its not visibly apparent

older than bing-mei and it is visible, sqq is just a dumbass

[megsbooklr]

Read in 2021

Novels & Novellas

1. Piranesi // Susanna Clarke

2. Starless Sea // Erin Morgenstern

3. The Ten Thousand Doors of January // Alix E. Harrow

4. The Grace of Kings // Ken Liu

5. The Order of the Pure Moon Reflected in Water // Zen Cho

6. The October Man // Ben Aaronovitch

7. Toń // Marta Kisiel

8. Nomen Omen // Marta Kisiel

9. Płacz // Marta Kisiel

10. The Devil and the Dark Water // Stuart Turton

11. House Of Hollow // Krystal Sutherland

12. The First Fifteen Lives of Harry August // Claire North

13. The Silence of Bones // June Hur

14. The Empress of Salt and Fortune // Nghi Vo

15. When the Tiger Came Down the Mountain // Nghi Vo

16. This Is How You Lose The Time War // Amal El-Mohtar & Max Gladstone

17. What Abigail Did That Summer // Ben Aaronovitch

18. Within the Sanctuary of Wings // Marie Brennan

19. The Left-Handed Booksellers of London // Garth Nix

Non-fiction

1. Tolkien and the Great War // John Garth

Poetry

1. A Spring Harvest // G. B. Smith

Short Stories

1. Tale of the Drunken Sword // Jeannie Lin

2. Book of Dragons (anthology) // edited by Jonathan Strahan

3. The Mermaid Astronaut // Yoon Ha Lee

4. The Truth About Owls // Amal El-Mohtar

Webnovels

1. 黄金台 [Golden Stage] // Cang Wu Bin Bai

2. 七爷 [Lord Seventh] // Priest

3. 天涯客 [Faraway Wanderers] // Priest

4. 千秋 [Thousand Autumns] // Meng Xishi

5. 教主走失记 [Record of the Missing Sect Master] // Yushi Huashang

6. 杀破狼 (Sha Po Lang) // Priest

7. 簪中录 [The Golden Hairpin] (vol. 1) // Qinghan CeCe

8. 有匪 [Bandits] (Books 1-3) // Priest

9. 天宝伏妖录 [Legend of Exorcism] (Scrolls 1-2) // Fei Tian Ye Xiang

Graphic Novels, Manhuas, Webtoons

1. Third Shift Society (season 1) // Meredith Moriarty

2. Lore Olympus (season 2) // Rachel Smythe

3. Heaven Official's Blessing vol. 1-5 // MXTX, Starember

[miticsky]

Timeline Black Butler 1830-1889

Traduction depuis l’anglais grâce à @akumadeenglish <3 

Attention : Toutes les dates sont traduites, même celles n’apparaissant pas encore dans le manga papier sorti en français ! Il y a un [SPOIL] à partir du moment où c’est le cas. 

______________________________________ 1830, 5 avril, Claudia Phantomhive est née. 

1837, Victoria devient reine du Royaume Uni à l’âge de 18 ans.

1851, 13 Juin, Vincent Phantomhive est né. 

Vers 1853, Frances Phantomhive est née (c’est la petite soeur de Vincent)

1859, Arthur Conan Doyle est né.

1861 14 décembre, Prince Albert meurt à l’âge de 42 ans. 

1866 13 juillet, Claudia Phantomhive meurt.

1871, Prince Soma est né.(Il a 17 ans en décembre 1888)

1872/73, Edward Midford est né.

1874, Vincent épouse Rachel. 

1874/75, Elizabeth Midford est née.

[SPOIL] 1875 14 décembre, les jumeaux Phantomhive (le vrai Ciel et notre Ciel) sont nés.

Vers 1878, Sieglinde Sullivan est né (Elle a 11 ans en août 2889)

1878 14 décembre, Princesse Alice (La deuxième fille de la reine Victoria) meurt à l’age de 35 ans. 

1883, Side Story “That butler, nursing” ("Le majordome soigne")

1884, Vincent et Ciel rencontre Baron Kelvin à la fête du comte Barton.

1885, Le mari d'Angelina, Baron Barnett meurt dans un accident

[SPOIL] ]1885 14 décembre, dixième anniversaire des jumeaux/ attaque du manoir Phantomhive / Vincent & Rachel & (le chien) Sebastian meurent. 

1885 Décembre, Madam Red commence à tuer des prostituées et rencontre Grell Sutcliff.

1886 Janvier, notre Ciel fait un contrat avec Sebastian et retourne au manoir Phantomhive en tant que “Ciel Phantomhive”. 

1886 Mars, Ciel devient officiellement le "comte Phantomhive"

1886-87, Finny/Bard/Mey-Rin deviennent des serviteurs de la maison Phantomhive 

1888, commencement de “Black Butler” (Vol.1)

1888 31 août, Arc de Jack l'éventreur (Vol.2-3)

1888 8 Septembre Ciel rencontre le Vicomte de Druitt à sa fête

1888 9 novembre, Madam Red meurt (Vol.3)

1888 14 décembre, treizième anniversaire de Ciel

1888 15-19 décembre, Ciel rencontre Soma & Agni (Vol.4)

1888 23-26 décembre, la bataille du curry (Vol.5)

1889 6-8 février, mission sous couverture au Noah's Circus (Vol.6)

1889 9 février, Joker, Doll, etc meurent (Vol. 8)

1889 12-14 mars, L'arc du meurtre / Snake devient un serviteur (Vol.9-12)

1889 17 avril, le Campania navigue vers New York (Vol.12)

1889 19-20 avril, attaque zombie / Campania coule au milieu de l'Atlantique/Stoker et beaucoup d'autres personnes meurent (Vol.12-14)

1889 Avrit, Chasse aux oeufs de Paques de Lizzy, etc (Vol.14)

1889 Avril-Juin, mission sous couverture au Weston College (Vol.14-18)

1889 4 juin, Tournois de cricket (Vol.16-17)

1889 Juillet ?, Valley of Lilly (Vol.18)

1889 Aout, Green Witch Arc (Vol.18 - Vol.22) 

1889 17 août, Hilde, Grethe, Anne et d'autres villageois meurent 

1889 28 septembre, Arc de la "Blue sect" (Secte bleue) (Vol23/ chap 9 - ? )

[SPOIL]

1889 15 novembre, Agni meurt, le vrai Ciel retourne au manoir Phantomhive (Vol. 26)

_____________________________________________ Ages des personnages (en date de Novembre 1889)

Sigliende - 11-12 ans

Ciel - 13 ans (va avoir 14 ans en décembre)

Lizzy - 14-15 ans (1 an plus âgée que Ciel)

Finny - 16 ans 

Edward - 17-18 ans

Soma - 18 ans 

Snake - 18-20 ans

Mey Rin - Autour des 22 ans

Phipps - En dessous des 24 ans (plus jeune que Grey)

Grey - 24 ans 

Joker - 25 ans

Agni - 31 ans 

Frances - En dessous de 37 ans (plus jeune que Vincent) 

Alexis Midford - 37 ans (1 an plus jeune que Diedrich) Diedrich - 38 ans (même âge que Vincent)

Bardroy - Aux alentours de 40 ans

Ages des personnages en fonction de leur apparence (pas l’âge réel !)

Ronald - 22-25 ans 

Grell-William - 26-32 ans 

Sebastian - Autour des 30 ans 

Undertaker - Plus que 30 ans

[leekankyo]

Artwork for IN/SECTS Vol.13

[your-dietician]

The effect of nutrition education based on PRECEDE model on iron deficiency anemia among female students | BMC Women's Health

New Post has been published on https://tattlepress.com/nutrition/the-effect-of-nutrition-education-based-on-precede-model-on-iron-deficiency-anemia-among-female-students-bmc-womens-health/

The effect of nutrition education based on PRECEDE model on iron deficiency anemia among female students | BMC Women's Health

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IN/SECTS vol.13

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