#I'm not saying Starclan is evil

[snailchasers-den]

How does starclan reacts to Spottedleaf's lies?

Super sorry for answering this so late, I've been super busy LMAO I try to answer asks as quickly as I can, so thank you for being so patient!

This will contain some spoilers for my fic, even if I might tweak some things before then, so know this is subject to some possible changes! It'll also contain some mild horror and themes of being watched, so fair warning!

It's nothing big at first, for a while she actually flies comfortably under the radar, the problem only really starts getting recognized by Starclan once they tell the clan the false prophecy, uncomfortably close to before whenever Spotted receives the 'Fire will save our clan' one, and gets worse once Yellowfang gets there and starts working alongside her. A lot of the plan hindered on the only other medicine cat around being her and her apprentice, so Yellowfang appearing threw a massive wrench in things. Yellowfang does agree not to reveal the fact she's faking her and Tigerclaw's prophecy, but can't promise she'll be able to keep her safe from everything that may come her way because of it.

She starts to avoid the night sky after that, doing her best to only go out during the day, or when the stars are hidden by clouds. But that doesn't always help her when she starts to feel watched near constantly. She's not exactly sure if it's a manifestation of guilt or Starclan themselves, at the time, but she starts to have dreams if not hallucinations of silent starclan cats, just... Watching as she tries to gather herbs. It's extremely rare for Starclan to decend from the sky, much less for no good reason. They don't tell you how dead and lightless an otherwise glittering Starclan cat's eyes can look when they stare at you so blankly. Nothing proves they're no longer alive more than that.

Yellowfang tries to comfort her through the days, but she out of anybody can tell it's starting to weigh on her- She does her best to make her feel a bit more secure, but having another cat with Starclan's gifts so nearby only makes things more unsettling.

Starclan is very different in this AU, being a lot more reserved and ominous, much closer to a coalescence of all the spirits of their ancestors that started having their lines between eachother smudged long ago. The clans have this image of ethereal starry passed family members who watch over them and keep them safe, but if you look deeper, there's something beneath the surface. They don't actively try to stop Spottedleaf, since this is likely a new type of crime, faking a prophecy not for power, but for something as simple and small as love, so instead they just judge. They know she knows they're watching her, and they plan to keep doing it until she dies, even if she tries to shut Starclan out of her mind later.

She does start trying to shut out Starclan once she realizes she's pregnant with Tigerclaw's kit. She knows the clan will see them as something special due to the prophecy that allowed them to be born 'within the code', and she doesn't need twice the stress with Starclan still lingering around her during the whole thing. Unfortunately, with her having such a strong connection with Starclan, and Tigerclaw having his own ties to it for wildly different reasons, their son ends up having a much, much higher connection than a majority of medicine cats do, even from a young age. Spotted isn't sure whether they passed it down to him, or if Starclan felt a bit sadistic and decided to play along for now, but for a while, the starry figures that stalk her through the forest seem to dissipate. She can't tell why, though, but she can feel in her bones that they'll be back for her.

Tigerclaw doesn't have a direct link with Starclan, but he does actually get his own glimpses of them, though his seem to be more based in malice. They've obviously never been too fond of him, and since Pinestar refused to kill him as a kit, they've let that demand go, but a lingering distaste for him never faded. He's been plagued with nightmares his entire life, but something about the ones he started getting once Starclan discovered their lie seemed to be less copy-paste with a few adjustments, and more personal. Deeper cutting and more unnerving. Ones he couldn't shake even with Spottedleaf at his side every night.

[bonefall]

heyyyy bonefallll!!! So uhm. Wind released. And if you read it, what do you think of it?

hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

I started ASC off with a lot of excitement. I had known to not get my hopes up, but for the first time in a long time, I felt like they actually had something meaningful to say about the problems in Clan society. For once, it felt fresh.

A conflict based on a murder mystery and a power struggle, political radicalization within another Clan with anti-Clanswapper bigotry turning violent, and the reluctant heir of a legacy sprawling several generations. Like a dark echo of TPB, implying the root issues had never been truly addressed by Darkest Hour. The Clans still have a terrible ruling system. The culture is still bigoted. Firestar failed to destroy the obsession with legacy-- he just founded a new bloodline.

And even if it wasn't THAT deep, it was at least a grounded plot that was based in the characters more than faith in StarClan. If Nightheart's arc about legacy fell apart, I'd still enjoy watching him struggle, lose people, grow, and find his purpose. Or seeing Splashtail juggle the power he'd managed to snatch and was just not smart enough to hold onto. Or the cool fights that would surely result from an invasion of RiverClan.

Wind tossed it. It was already having a downturn in the previous book, but this is a book that seems so afraid of having interesting conflict that it spends 75% of its time debating if something interesting should happen, and 25% of its time barking, "EVIL HEATHENS WHO HATE GOD WILL DESTROY OUR SOCIETY!!"

I can't get over how awful Splashtail's "descent" is. He's having a dumbass atheist stoner debate with Podlight when they go to the Moonpool, musing that maybe you have to eat 9 mice to get 9 lives, and then 2 appearances later he's foaming at the mouth with a dictator speech and kills harelight no miss.

They even seem to have tried to replicate Stonefur's execution but badly. It's jarring. Splashtail had a big dictator speech, killed the beloved deputy suddenly, and the whole camp looks Super Scared and Upset so that you know it's the Evil Leader and not a systemic problem.

His "TALENT FOR MANIPULATION" is saying he heard Curlfeather murmur evil plans in her sleep and (apropos of nothing) accusing her teenage daughter of "getting the wrong idea" about his adult romantic interest in her. I keep coming back to this because the ENTIRE book's plot is based on this successfully smearing Frostpaw's reputation.

you may be tired of hearing it, but I'm definitely more tired than you because I had to read and analyze an ENTIRE BOOK founded on it.

The plot is endlessly arguing over if they can trust Frostpaw or not, gathering "evidence" to this end, while Sunbeam and Nightheart's POVs uselessly languish in ThunderClan doing mentoring stuff.

Im SO sick of being forced to sit in thunderclan while more interesting things happen offscreen. stop adding MORE cats to ThunderClan, you already have Stormcloud and you do NOTHING with him why are they also getting WAFFLEPAW

Everyone's praising the fact that the book can remember previous entries, but actually, I'm going to drop a hot take; It's actually bad if they CAN obviously reference old material, and then it doesn't influence the actions the characters take. They namedrop Nightstar several times and then come up with excuses for why they still need to sit around and do nothing!!

THAT'S WORSE, ACTUALLY.

SCALDING TAKE, I'd RATHER see the cats have the memories of goldfish if the alternative is "We remember Nightstar! We're simply going to purposefully disregard Nightstar, because the plot needs to happen"

They also muse that maybe Splashtail's evilness is making all the RiverClan cats act evil, and they'll go back to normal once he's removed. This has been implied before, but never so blatantly stated.

But most of all, I can't stop going back to "Godless Heathen Bloodlust." What a fucking joke. For a shining minute it looked like we were going to have interesting villains, but no, they really are just coming out and saying that lacking faith is an indicator of a moral failing. What makes Splashtail so uniquely bad and scary is that he "disrespects the ancestors" (hey podlight. what if eating 9 magic mice gives you 9 lives? woah dude look at this. the bugle chips look like claws. lol haha) and hates love and peace and won't even let Jesus guide him.

The scenes with Frostpaw and her allies are the only parts of this book worth reading. Shadowsight, tigerHeartstar. Clinging to Whistlepaw like she's a life preserver. save me windclan

[rudymentari]

ur like. the curlfeather guy to me. how do u feel about the recent preview

Thank you sm all I've ever wanted

I'm glad to see Curlfeather again. At first I was worried they'd make her anger only about Splashtail ruining her plans and not address him trying to kill her kit, so I was glad when they did bring it up in a way that wasn't so flippant as her first mention of it. I wish they'd leaned into it a bit more.

Her description was definitely very gorey, even for warrior cats. I love all the fanart people are making of the scene but I'm going to keep focusing on the mostly curlfeather-centric video I'm working on rather than singular pieces- you might see it referenced there once it's out

I loved having a lot more Duskfur presence- as Curlfeather's mother, I have a Lot of thoughts about her. I like her characterization in the excerpt and her interactions with Mothwing and Frostpaw. I'm glad Frostpaw is allowed to be angry, as well

I think there's something to be said about Splashtail and his relationship with Curlfeather. Even if he was already an ambitious cat with violent tendencies, she Was an older warrior who in a way completely uprooted his life before he even finished his apprenticeship, a warrior who is still haunting him after his death. It's something I'd love to explore, but only in an ideal world where half the fandom didn't already believe Curlfeather was a wholly, entirely evil cat with nothing but malice behind her every action. I don't really want to encourage that.

Not saying I think none of the things she did were wrong. But I think it's infinitely more interesting to explore a character's complex feelings and motivations than label them as evil for evil's sake. I do believe she wanted what was best for her clan and her kits, and believed, if everything went to plan, that her kits, including frostpaw, would never have to face the negative consequences her actions ultimately brought. I also think there are legitimate reasons for her to feel the way she does about Starclan. I could make a multi-hour video essay on this with books excerpts and all. But I refrain

[t4twnyclaw]

retconning Curlfeather moments (River + Sky vs. Star.) spoilers V

Curlfeather isn't as heartless as how Frostpaw remembers her as. ofc fFostpaw has every right to demonize her mother I just mean like as a reader I never got that vibe. I remember in Star when comparing Curlfeather to Jayclaw she said something along the lines of "Curlfeather never gave me affection unless I had earned it." but in River, it seems like Curlfeather is the opposite:

"Her mother, she knew, would have stopped before Frostpaw even needed to ask, curling herself around her as a shelter from the wind."

“It’s not your fault, Frostpaw. I would willingly die countless times if it meant keeping you safe.” <- First thing Curlfeather says when Frostpaw sees her in 'Starclan'.

Also the two examples Curlfeather gave to Frostpaw to convince her she's a real medicine cat- were completely valid examples that she in no way could've even faked. (Jayclaw's death and a storm.) Sure, Curlfeather could've...hyped Frostpaw up about her visions but she didn't somehow plan Jayclaw's death or a storm. And I'm not defending Curlfeather; she's still manipulative in other ways (managing Frostpaw specifically in order to conceal Reedwhiskers body/discovery etc)

Also, Curlfeather is mentioned as "Having stars in her pelt." So was she originally in Starclan or is it an Ashfur situation where she just has stars in her fur for no reason. and speaking of this- in Sky, Curlfeather was the one that said "You have to look beyond the obvious choice." in regards to telling Frostpaw who the new leader should be. Curlfeather could've said splashtail or her evil brother podlight but she didn't... like she's depicted as being neutral/in Starclan yet in Star...

[bonebabbles]

Wind Begin

HOKAY finally cracked Wind open. My expectations are pretty low, because I'm anticipating that this is the book where ASC takes a downturn.

I will say going in that I am still trying to enjoy the book, I haven't flipped into Total Hater mode with this arc just yet. But I'm honest about how disappointed I am in the direction of the story since Book 4, because I'd been hoping for a more grounded, less StarClan-centric plot for once.

Naturally I have a huge bone to pick with the theme of "EVIL ATHEISTS RUINING SOCIETY" so I'm going to get pretty sensitive towards it, bonus points if somehow they manage to pencil in a "XENOPHOBIA IS FINE ACTUALLY" somewhere

[warrior-cats-rewritten]

I'm not trying to be rude, but I feel like you're going way too far to punish Brambleclaw. Thistleclaw, the child groomer, doesn't receive this treatment. I don't understand the point of bringing him back if you're going to portray him as the most evil cat in history. Brambleclaw is buried outside, while most of the evil cats are buried within the clan's territory, which seems very extreme. If you hate him so much, don't include him in a rewrite. It will feel just like what you hate the Erins for, "forcing too much on Brambleclaw." If you dislike a character, don't focus on them. Like Jesus Christ, my friend wasn't wrong, you have a hate boner for this cat. I mean no offense, but it's weird, dude. Real weird.

Why is it that the minute I post bramble facing consequences for actions I get bramblestans in my inbox assuming I hate him? I think what's weird is very clearly trawling the tag to look for posts like mine so you can write an essay. What you should be doing is drawing him with green eyes, it looks good.

Cause if you knew this project, you would know that Thistleclaw isn't a child goomer anymore, technically. He is Ivypaw's Dark Forest mentor (which... is grooming people but not THAT way), as Hawkfrost has a proper arc now and... Doesn't die in Sunset.

I will say one thing though, I did actually forget one thing to mention that you caught! He isn't on Thunderclan's MAIN territory. I mean... what do you call a border that shifts ALL the time? It's the Thunder-Shadow Niagara Falls.

It's where Tawnypelt is going to be buried! Under a pine tree. (It's also close to a lungwort patch Rowanstar is the protector of, territories NEED landmarks)

Also.... I don't truly hate him hate him! Sure, he sucks but he isn't real. And as a character? Dude, he's FUN. He's a self fulfilling Prophecy, he has good moments, in WCR, he is still a POV during TNP and is buddies with Cinderpelt. He's canonically a giant PUFFBALL of an animal and I've never been against adding your own pets to Xenofiction! I am also the biggest advocate for the Give Brambleclaw Green Contacts Organization. I'm giving him more moments with his family, and while those relationships get REALLY strained, it's a story. He wouldn't be interesting if he was a cardboard cutout of a cat. I think he's interesting in a way that is both intriguing and frustrating.

He's messy.

He loves his daughter Dandeliontuft, but she's the spitting image of his mother who died right after swearing to never speak to him again, and Dandy is nearly mute... It's hard to think about. Abusers are not unfathomable monsters with no redeeming qualities. He still cried when he thought Lionpaw was buried alive.

He does show up to Starclan, but when he sees the smoldering scorched earth, it's a clear message. He wasn't welcome, and he will not be staying. It's not like the actual literal groomer Stormtail, who got poisoned repeatedly, had all of his relationships ruined, and chased out of Starclan every night by a living and dead Goosefeather until his spirit eroded due to his refusal to move on. Tom got eaten alive and his spirit consumed by One Eye.

He's a ghost now. He's gonna have a long, long time to reflect on what he's done. How badly he did hurt others. He's been around too long, and his generation needs to be done away with. I think he'll find peace wandering the land, being a cat ghost.

He's not an evil cat, he's just stubborn. Stuck in the way he was taught to be by the Clans.

[clangenrising]

Are you ever afraid of falling into the "outsiders evil, clan cats good & better than them" thing that the main series does? cause canon goes HARD to make the clans seem perfect and all outsiders & weird & evil & wrong (I'm not saying you are doing this btw, just curious!)

Good question! I am very conscious of that and try to make sure that not only are the Clans just as flawed as the cats outside avoid the Xenophobia that is present in the main series. Cause there is a LOT haha

Because I write RisingClan week by week and don't do too much to plan the plot past a month or so (aside from the results of my ClanGen playthrough) my writing is never going to be as careful as a story that I might write and edit in its entirety before posting but I have a few things I do to try and make sure it avoids those harmful narratives.

I make sure that the outsider cats that I write are nuanced and three dimensional. Yes, a lot of the outsider cats in the story right now are dangerous and bad people, but a lot of them are just cats existing in the world and unconsciously supporting the harmful systems they are apart of. When it comes down to it, OUTSIDERS are not the ultimate enemy, authoritarianism and fascism and all the other isms that the city cats perpetuate are the enemy.

I also make sure that the Clans are flawed too and that I try to address those flaws in the story. I'm not sure when it's going to come into play, but eventually I want to tackle the Clans' relationship with StarClan and the problems that spring from that. I also want to address the in world xenophobia that Clan cats have and have our characters overcome it. Who knows how well I will do that but I'm looking forward to trying.

So, yeah! If you are looking for more warrior cats content that addresses the xenophobia and authoritarianism in the series, I highly recommend checking out @bonefall who is rewriting the plot to address those topics instead of erase them. I spent a good 20 minutes searching for a particular post of theirs about why they decided to tackle fascism and authoritarianism in their writing that I remember really liking but tumblr search is garbage and I couldn't find it. Still! From the little I have consumed of it, I think their stuff is very good and you should go check it out!

[featherdawn]

overall thoughts on the book: it was mid at best. frustrating at worst.

things I liked:

- sunbeam. I love u sunbeam my girlie my sweet cheese. I don't even have much to say I just. really like reading about her

- splashtail. he's trying so hard and barely succeeding. he reads like he's so out of his depth. it's so funny. he's intimidating, I guess, in that he killed harelight without hesitation or remorse, but like. he should've killed wasp too if they really wanted me to fear him. this is all going to crumble beneath his feet just u watch

- podlight. it was also kinda funny to see him be a massive cunt to frostpaw, in a fucked up kinda way. evil medicine cat if u squint

- the way it feels like the plot is moving. we saw frostpaw gather support and evidence of splashtails bullshit. it's an incredibly low bar but this is warrior cats

- breezepelts tiny tiny appearance in the beginning

- appleshine and woodsong being cunts. I support women's wrongs

- Squirrelstar. I love u bbg

- edit: oh my god I forgot curlfeather in the prologue. she's so good. i love u queen u are so right about everything.

things I didn't like:

- motives for driving splashtail out. I do not care that he doesn't respect starclan, starclan has given me no reason to respect them either. I care that he is willing to kill his clanmates.

- nightheart. he's not as bad as he used to be in terms of the misogyny and such, but now that his arc is over its clear how fucking useless his pov is to this arc. we gain nothing from it. not only in this book, either; the whole arc. he's an accessory to sunbeam and frostpaw in my mind, and it doesn't help that only 1 chapter involves something that neither of them could witness. get him outta here

- the unwillingness to fight. this is WARRIOR CATS god damn it! I didn't come here for this "I don't wanna spill blood :(" bullshit! if this was the first arc splashtail would've been ripped a new asshole by now!!!

- the unwillingness of the authors to kill. I've mentioned already wasp should've died; we gain nothing from him living. he leaves anyway. use this to show splashtails brutality! have whoever bring his body back as a warning! there was no reason to keep him alive. also leafkit could've died but that one I'm more indifferent to.

- how the berryheart plot line progressed. it felt forgotten about in the second half, only to come back full swing. she's suddenly riverclans deputy??? huh??? why are u there berryheart this isn't like you

- I have an incling fear they're setting up nightheart to be deputy and I do not like it. it should be sunbeam. not just bc I like her but bc she shows more signs of leadership; 2 of her tasks involved leading, the way she went in for leafkit, the way that she will do what's right regardless of the morals (yes, I know they say nightheart will do that too, but recently he only seems to do it when someone else is already doing it too. accessory character.) at the very least she should've gotten to be a mentor. grr

[nanistar]

How did you go about making your story Saltburn's Clan? I really love how fleshed out and interconnected things are, it's really good! I want to make my own story, too, but I'm struggling to know what steps to take to get there and where to start. So, how did you go about it?

this one is really hard. i get a decent amount of people asking me how to start/how to write a comic, but never how to start/write a story.

truthfully, i don't really know. i have always been a more oc oriented person rather than fandom oriented. when i was in middle school i tried writing fanfiction but was never as attached to the canon character as i was with ocs. now oc x canon, however, i could roll with. all this to say, i have always had oc stories floating around in my head, so starting a story itself is easy for me. following through is not, i have to really hit a vein early on.

so when it comes to story, what do you like? i like 70s and 80s grungy sci-fi and gory/campy horror (alien, event horizon, the thing, evil dead) niche and hostile biomes with highly adapted creatures (like deep sea or deep desert) and i love specbio, even if i'm far from an actual scientist. i also love bastardizing Christianity because the themes and motifs are. (chef kiss) Delicious. (a lot of these inspirations don't come into play for SBC but since i was 15 or so i've been working on another story, starting the comic, cancelling it, rewriting it, completely wiping everything but the core characters. most of these themes are more appropriate for them)

and what sort of character tropes do you like/don't like? i personally am uninterested in writing stories of younger people discovering the world around them and discovering who they are. i love to read them, but i've already lived through that situation and don't want to have to work through it again. another thing i'm personally bad at writing is will they/wont they romance stuff. that's why i like established adult characters with established relationships. Saltburn and hollowspur are both 5 years old and have been dating for about 4 of those years. we know that they love each other, as they visit and play around, and sleep over often, but we also know that they are independent and self-sufficient without each othersince we know that they live apart and have no interest in moving in together. (this is all shown, not told, in chapter 1) i did not start saltburn's story and setting with the intention of making it into a comic, or even to share it with tumblr or anyone other than my friends, outside of drawings that i did for myself and posted. she was just a little kitty cat who lived in my head for a while. i talk a bit more about it here, but basically when it came to actually coming up with the setting, i knew i wanted it in the desert so i researched biomes and found ones that would be good for clans.

warrior cats in particular lends itself to a really good jumping off point for stories, as it already has an established hierarchy and society so you dont have to think TOO hard about it. but also you can modify it to your own discretion. i'm personally sick of starclan's interference so i didn't want them to have anything to do with the story, plus there are a lot of better "starclan is evil/fucked up/has bad intentions" stories out there than i could do (@the-exiled-comic, the dog star, ect) . i also didnt want any clan v clan drama because weve had enough in canon. from there i established that cross clan relationships are fine and joining a clan that fits you better is okay too. then i filled out the clans, i started with sunclan and did marshclan last. through drawing that huge list of characters i was able to set them up with families and histories along the way because i could look at similar coat patterns and stuff and assign them as family. briskwater and hollowspur were always siblings, but hawkwasp being from briskwater's litter came a bit later. i knew i wanted flickerstar to have exes and a lot of kids so i came up with a bunch of names first and figured the rest out later. having these established histories that go back helps make the world feel lived in.

saltburn's unusual design came before the creation of moonclan, though i knew i wanted a 4th clan at this point. i decided there would be a clan that lived in the mines and came out at night, and then eventually worked them back so that they were instead banished away deep into the mines. there is a lot of moonclan lore that i have not revealed yet (we will learn all about them this upcoming chapter) and most of it has stemmed from the question: If life is so bad for them down there, why hasn't anyone left yet? because a major plot point form moonclan is that nobody knows they exist. SO there has to be something, physical or otherwise, keeping them down there. when you build a world you gotta ask yourself WHY a lot, and figure that out too. why are the surface clans so friendly with each other? because they don't need to compete for resources and are able to spare some. why hasn't anyone left moonclan? well...

anyway a lot of these things will come naturally the more you think about it. and tbqh, i did not go into the comic with all this lore and stuff planned. it has come to me as i work. moonclan's [Redacted] has been rewritten like a dozen times as i come up with cooler ideas. when i plan a scene, i usually wrote a short kinda vague script for it, and then work through it as i do the pages. an 8 page scene takes a month to do, so I have a lot of time to mull over the dialogue, so i don't worry about writing it all down ahead of time.

but beyond all that. i personally can't go "i want to write a story" and then do it. i have to work it over in my head and as doodles for a long time before i get anywhere that i'm happy with it. it comes naturally to me i just sorta zone in and focus on stuff.

[sparrowlovesskittles]

Thunder review time I guess??

I'm gonna be real I don't have much to say about Sunbeam or Nightheart this is gonna be 90% rambling about Frostpaw

SPOILERS UNDER THE CUT

Sunbeam

- I like her trials, especially the one about training the kittens hehehe.

- I like her bonding with Nightheart's family and learning to find a place in ThunderClan even when he isn't there!! I think it's a really important aspect of switching clans actually. The cats should be able to be comfortable and happy with their clan even without their mate by their side.

- She really gets some good girlboss moments in!!!!!!! You GO Sunbeam yell at Cherryfall!! Publicly shame Berryheart several times in a row!!!!!!!!

- God is it just me or does she have SO much chemistry with Myrtlebloom

Nightheart

- Him and Frostpaw bonding is quite sweet :)

- Love him nearly drowning in a covered pool and it sounding all scary and dramatic and then we switch to Frostpaw's perspective and she's just like 'that idiot nearly drowned in a tiny little pond the other day ugh 🙄🙄'

- Literally WHY did he just run away without telling anyone at all that's so funny and why does NO ONE even bat an eye LMAO?? Poor Sunbeam

-Idk man he's just kinda there

FROSTPAW

- GIRLIE!!!!!!! MY BELOVED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! POOR BABY!!!

- Shoutout to Frostpaw the first warrior cat to be canonically spayed!!!! That's so funny I love how Smokey is just like 'yeah that happens lmao' and her and Whistlepaw are just like 'huh. okay then'. Anyway from now on I'm drawing her with a nicked ear like they do to cats in TNR programs

- Speaking of Whistlepaw. THEY'RE SO SWEET! AND GAY!!!

- Girlie is a mess she's so traumatized literally just nearly got murdered and she fucking SNAPS at StarClan when they refuse to tell her shit. AS SHE SHOULD!! SHE DESERVES TO!!!! RIVERSTAR IS FUCKED UP FOR DOING THIS TO HER, ACTUALLY.

- OTTERS!!!!!!!! About time they got mentioned again, the last time was like literally TNP I think. It was implied otters lived at the lake but now Frostpaw confirms they don't anymore (but the elders definitely know about them). When are we getting the Minnowtail's Genocide novella where she plans the mission to drive the otters out of the lake and then marries Mousewhisker huh warrior cats??????

- Why was Frostpaw more traumatized by climbing a tree than she was by literally being chased by a dog. DGMW it's a good scene, I'm INCREDIBLY glad her PTSD was mentioned in the first place, but I feel like it's kinda weird for her to struggle with the tree when one day earlier she encountered a dog and just sort of... hissed at it a bit and then moved on.

- The park cats have canonically survived for longer than the clans and I am so sorry but that's BS. You're telling me no one in the past like 100 years killed these cats or TNRed them??? How many parks have they been through at this point??

- Frostpaw learning to meditate is so good though actually. Especially when she realises how fucked up the clan system is. If she doesn't fuck up Splashtail and then fuck up StarClan and fix the entire clan system in the next two books I'm gonna riot.

- I adore that she's FAR more distraught about Curlfeather being evil than she is about Splashtail. Like yeah! That's her mother!! That would fuck her up, Actually!! It's refreshing for a character to have familial relationships that are more important than their romantic ones.

- Frostpaw also feels like such a genuinely realistic victim. When she admits that she feels like it was her fault Splashtail was able to manipulate her because she was so naive? And then the park cats all cuddle her and tell her that it wasn't her fault and that HE'S the fucked up one? That scene actually made me cry a bit ngl.

- Hehe Frostpaw meditates now she's a true hippy stoner.

General

- WHY DID THEY PULL A RISING STORM ON US. FROSTPAW JUST STAND UP AND SHOUT AT EVERYONE. ITS NOT TOO LATE. ARGHGDHDHDJDHSJDJHS (I understand she's going through a lot and is very panicked but come ON)

- I like the more personal vibe of this book- the conflict is largely internal, with her realising in her own time that Splashtail was evil. It's not the big dramatic scene I was hoping for- but at the same time it's kind of... Nice? I think it's cool. And I'm sure there will be more drama left to come!

- My prediction for the next two books is that she gets rid of Splashtail and then spends the remainder of the arc yelling at StarClan and fixing the clans. Ideally then I think we should have a soft reboot and jump forward in time, the clans are all operating under new rules, none of the cats are the same, etc. But that's not terribly likely to happen.

- YEAH DOVEWING YOU YELL AT IVYPOOL!! Ivypool deserves it honestly. Dovewing took none of her shit and that's beautiful.

- SQUIRRELSTAR!!!! I wasn't initially too jazzed about this, and I still have my grievances, but I think this is the right time for her to become leader. Go girl give us conflict!! Give us drama!!!!!!!!

- Riverstar is a dick lol??????

[snailchasers-den]

What about Tigerclaw x Spottedleaf has made you like the ship so much? I don't dislike it but I don't quite understand it either.

Well, the thing that kicked off my initial interest was the scene they had together in the first book, which I read as some type of flirty banter as a kid, and it later on snowballed from there the more I thought about it nowadays, I think LMAO Since then it's been like, my all time biggest ship in warriors, and I think about them all the time, even if I can't post about them a ton, I check the tag regularly and kinda just rotate them in my brain LMAO

It's customary at this point to mention I'm writing this while extremely tired, as I do most of my asks, so fair warning if any of this is kinda clunky. Other people have explained it WAY more eloquently than me, so if you're curious, I recommend looking in the SpottedTiger tag, cause others explain it in way more concise and understandable ways. I write most shit like I'm a madman at a whiteboard, but if that's your jam, you've asked the perfect person.

It's really a mixed bag why I started liking it-? A whole lot of things added up and got me hooked.

The difference in demeanors is fun, with Tigerclaw being threatening and ambitious and dramatic, while Spottedleaf is sweet and compassionate, yet extremely sassy, I feel like they'd play off of eachother nicely even in just comedic, non-romantic scenes.

Depending on how you want things to play out, you can basically sway how they effect eachother in however many different ways you want- Want an evil Spottedleaf AU? Tiger manages to convince her to join his side and we have a fun evil medicine cat. Want a however good Tigerclaw and a fluffier AU? Spotted is what he needs to soften him up just enough to not go feral and try taking over the clans. Want to tear them apart and have it be super tragic and kinda fucked up? Tiger still gets Clawface to kill her because he knows he can't bring himself to do it and knows she's his weak point. Something more canon-compliant? They were had a secret relationship before she died, and he sees her in Tawnypelt (I have a fic based on that idea, I love it. Obsessed with Tawnypelt resembling Spottedleaf by coincidence.) They're super flexible in that you can basically tweak and twist their story in so many different ways depending on how much you adjust the scenarios or their actions.

Make them mushy and sweet! Make them a badass medic/leader villain couple! Make them divorce eachother 3 different times and be bitter exes who throw snark and cold one liners! Make them be a tragic failed love story! Make them somehow make it work? Make them gay toms! Make them lesbians! Make them polyamorous with a cat of your choice! They're so versatile, and I love seeing anything people do with them.

I also like to throw a lot of religious/Starclan related things into the mix personally, because in different ways they both have connections with it in ways a lot of cats don't, and it can be both a good connecting point, and make it have an extra air of tragedy which I play VERY hard into in my False Prophecy AU. LMAO Spoilers for the AU that aren't really spoilers since I've drawn it before, but Tigerclaw doesn't actually commit a lot of his atrocities in that AU (Hence why I don't call him Tigerstar) and still goes to the Dark forest primarily due to literally lying about Starclan's word when they already wanted him dead from the moment he was born and 'corrupting a medicine cat', (And whatever else they could get him on, probably him being a bad mentor or having bad thoughts. They just wanted him in hell.) meanwhile, Spottedleaf, the golden girl of Starclan, despite being the one who ACTUALLY directly lied about their word and broke the code, is given a second chance and let in because 'She only loved too much'. (Because if they're going to say that line for someone like ASHFUR, I can twist it and use it for my AU in a more sinister manner, since Starclan is morally questionable here.) The ending of the AU's story also heavily relies on the afterlives, and though I won't go into it here since that's not what this ask is about and I genuinely do want to write it someday, I think it's a really fun way to twist things for them. It has such a poignant, vivid energy it carries with it, and I don't think it would feel the same with really any other pairing.

They're closer in age than most ships with them seperately, which is super nice, and makes it really fun to imagine them interacting as apprentices and their feelings building from those times into adulthood-

If you want to consider Spottedleaf's Heart, that could actually add to it too, seeing as they were both victims of Thistleclaw, likely even around the same time, and could seek solace in eachother over it- They're the only ones that truly understand, and that could drive them to want to protect eachother from other threats because they know they've been hurt in similar ways and don't want that to happen again.

I tend to imagine Tigerclaw to be a big ass Maine Coon while Spottedleaf is fairly small, and that just adds to it for me, since I think it makes the fluff between them 10 times better. My favorite warriors ship dynamic is when one of them is very, very fluffy and the other can basically just. Sink into their fur like a pillow. Hence why I also like MothCrow. I'm both unpredictable and incredibly predictable.

I also just don't really like a lot of Spottedleaf ships? She's one of my favorite characters, but I don't like basically any of the other pairings I've ever seen for her. Definitely don't like SpottedFire and never did, I see Mousefur as very very aromantic and relate to that, so SpottedMouse is very much not my jam- Anything else tends to be a rarepair or just something I don't really vibe with- She's not shipped with as many people as you'd expect. SpottedTiger was like striking gold for me- (Though Spottedleaf/Runningnose is also a nice one I think about from time to time, and is where I got Snailchaser as a character from LMAO)

Tigerclaw has always stood out to me and registered in my mind as being a romantic in a way too? It's a unique trait for a villain, especially in warriors, so I love emphasizing it, since god knows the Erins don't and won't. I know a lot of people like to joke about him kinda sleeping around or being a womanizer with him having two mates, but I love taking his multiple mates and interpreting it in more of a romantic sense- (And also I headcanon him as Polyamorous, but that's just me) He wasn't a good partner at all in canon, but something about imagining if he was makes him 10 times more compelling to me. He's a romantic! He's a family man! And he's a sadistic wanna-be dictator with the ambition needed to wreak havok and take over Shadowclan! Those traits 100% clash and that's the point. Putting him with Spottedleaf further complicates that by pairing him with a compassionate medic who does not at all share his lust for power. (Or might deep down, who knows! It's up to the writer!) I think it'd be fun to see internal battles and how the actual good traits he has fuck with his plans.

Though, if you know me at all, I'm also just really weird and love rarepairs and crack ships for Warriors. Hell, I basically made up the MothCrow tag on here by cautiously posting about Mothwing x Crowfeather- Even if my stuff's not completely canon accurate, I write in much more 'what if' scenarios and heavy AU usage. It's more fun and interesting to me to write in a more speculative "I love the version of this character that exists only in my brain" way, and out comes the stuff I make.

[bonefall]

Elder Bones, what is your opinion on Brightflower supposedly being in the Dark Forest according to the 'magical warrior cats god' Su Susann? According to the Warriors Wiki, Su Susann put Brightflower in cat hell for hating Yellowfang once and supposedly not being sane after the truth was revealed about the death of her children. I quote, "On Vicky's Facebook, Su Susann wrote that Brightflower resides in the Dark Forest since she was filled with hate when she thought Yellowfang killed Mintkit and Marigoldkit, and was subsequently shocked and no longer sane when Brokenstar revealed the truth about the death of her kits." Seems pretty fucking messed up if you ask me.

HOT TAKE: I think it works okayish with the older "vibe" of the Dark Forest being the sort of place where your feelings put you. Like you lose a mortal part of yourself in death, and what lives on in the afterlife is your life's energy.

So it would be fucked up if, say, your kittens died and you blamed the wrong person, were consumed by it, and then in death were dedicated to that revenge in a sort of nightmarish Angry Ghost kind of state. But also, kinda neat. No wonder they take such good care of their elders, when their belief is that negativity at death can make you into an evil spirit.

And that's interesting with Ashfur in mind, too! Like it's not really something StarClan can control! If you feel like you were justified, if you didn't believe you had hate in your heart, you go where you think you should go. Tweak the line from Yellowfang to Ashfur, and have him decree, "My only crime was that I loved too much!" And you have GREAT setup for TBC.

It could unironically have made a really good way to drive conflict-- have heroes who believe they don't deserve Heaven, and villains who fully believe they do. Makes an interesting worldbuilding idea, at least.

BUT that said, that's probably a personal bias. I want the Dark Forest to be SOMETHING deeper and less simple than canon, where everyone who goes there is usually some flavor kind of murderous freakazoid (unless youre frecklewish, in which case, RIP but dont be The Nearest Woman next time, the Erins HATE those). I'm perfectly capable of seeing how fucked up it is that the two Authorial Damnations were basically just... sad women.

The other one was Lilywhisker, who was "bitter" because... she broke a leg. So the only two non-murderers who were actually sent to Hell under that feelings-first system were a Sad Mom and a Disabled Woman. If that system continued, you KNOW we'd end up seeing a billion girls damned to Hell while the boys are judged less harshly by the narrative, because the Erins are a LOT harder on women's feelings than men's.

In any case, it's not canon any longer so it doesn't invoke white-hot rage like some other statements. But it really was massively uncomfortable, considering their poor track record with both women AND mental illness.

[griffincloud]

desire or nightmare for peachleaf :3

Sorry for not getting to this sooner ^^", I was busy and now I'm sick so I may not be super coherent in my rambling

So this will require a "brief" worldbuilding synopsis since Peachleaf is very much intertwined with the non-WC canon part of this WCOC story. But basically, there are basically 3 levels/tiers of existing (best wording I got): you're either alive, in limbo (sort of like The Dark Forest but not really? You don't go there if you're evil; described as "having a paw between being alive and dead" by Tuftbee), and fully dead/StarClan. Most cats go from living straight to being a StarClan cat upon dying, but if you for some reason have some form of "unfinished business" or cannot accept your death, you are now stuck in limbo. A spirit cannot leave this state once stuck there and this limbo state isn't good for the "health" of the spirit. The spirit will slowly become sick or "corrupted" by their feelings of hate and turmoil over their death; if enough time passes, the spirit will fully "corrupt" and become unrecognizable from their former selves. The speed at which this happens relies on how well the spirit keeps themselves at peace, but no spirit is immune from corrupting as spirits are naturally emotional creatures

Corrupted spirits are known to attack and kill the living. But the presence of non-corrupted spirits isn't good either; extended exposure to one unknowingly causes sickness and unexplained stress usually manifesting as anxiety or paranoia

This is where Shepherds come in. Shepherds are unique in the sense that they can see spirits (as cats cannot see spirits with the exception of corrupted spirits when they're about to be attacked by them/when the spirit shows themselves to the cat first) and are gifted the power to help spirits pass on and purify the corrupted spirits. Each Shepherd is born from the same family, descended from the first Shepherd's littermates as Floodfog never had kits of her own. When one Shepherd dies, the eldest kit of the next litter born after they pass will become the next one. Peachleaf is the 11th Shepherd, succeeding Icefern

Now, onto the actual questions...

Desire: What's one thing your OC wants more than anything in the world? Are they open with that desire? Why or why not? What would they do to fulfill it?

To have a voice in the clans (whether that be by taking up a higher-ranking role or otherwise). This isn't a bad desire at all, but she still tries to word this to herself as just wanting to serve the clans and make them better in an attempt to be humble/coy. She doesn't like to draw much attention to herself paradoxically

She chooses to be a Medic since she genuinely wants to help other cats and that is something she feels strongly about, but being a well-respected member of her society is a plus to her. She tries to work hard and aid her leader and clanmates any way she can to earn or keep their respect, even if they already respect her because she's their family (by blood or not)

Nightmare: What does your OC have nightmares about? How do they deal with their nightmares? Do they tell people, or keep it to themself?

Peachleaf has nightmares about seeing her friends, family, and clanmates become corrupted spirits because that means she could not help them not only in life as a Medic but also not in death as a Shepherd. As for how she copes with the idea, I can't particularly go into that too much as that would be leaning into spoiler territory (which I would love to talk about with just mutuals if anyone is curious but it's maybe not the best idea to go into that too much publicly if I wanna turn this into a comic one day) but let's just say, she copes with it in ways that progress the plot. But she largely keeps these fears to herself as she feels it is her burden to bear (and has been sworn to secrecy by Tuftbee, her great-grandmother and the 8th Shepherd as she feels that's what you're supposed to do) but she does console in a select few cats about her duties and fear of failing those duties such as Sterletcurl, Ripplingbreeze, Sizzlingpond, Xanthiawing, and of course Tuftbee

Prompts List

[bonebabbles]

A Forest Divided: BEGIN

I'm so happy im finally at the book where Clear Sky's mom calls him a bitch. I cannot wait for this. I'm kept alive on fumes.

Also wolf mention;

This is less "ecological nitpick" and more wondering what they think of wolves? DOTC is like... a weird mix of America and England. Appalachian Scafells. Scaffalachia.

Wolves are extinct in England but we do have them in America... though I'm not sure if we had them between 1910 - 1950, when DOTC takes place.

Anyway, big dream thing again where all the leaders are called together so StarClan can hand them the plot again. This moment stands out;

fuck you mean, "If he hadn't let her leave"? She left because he was getting people killed, throwing disabled people out of his Clan, and fighting with her publicly while bossing her around, why the hell are you phrasing it as "LET HER LEAVE"?? She left BECAUSE you were so controlling

"If only I had been even worse u_u" -Clear Sky

Anyway the StarClan cats are angry that no one has followed their vague order to "grow and spread." ok. At the very least, we get to watch Clear Sky get yelled at by a baby so that's cool

"It's so good to see you, my very first fridged girl :D"

"FUCK YOURSELF SIDEWAYS"

I love you Fluttering Bird, BEST Quiet Rain kit, no contest, I love you I love you I love you.

Clear Sky sees everyone hanging out with each other in the dream but no one wants to talk to him, and for the FIRST time, EVER, SOMEONE FINALLY TELLS HIM IT IS HIS FAULT.

This is building up to how he needs a wife though, btw. Star Flower is a reward for being good now, so he'll have "someone to care for him" and defend him against the horrible ordeal of People Being Mad At Him. She is an object for Clear Sky's narrative.

As cathartic as it is that finally, someone's mad at him, you're supposed to feel bad that they're being so harsh. To the dictator. Who got more than half of the dead cats in this dream killed.

I'm not being hyperbolic about the wife-thing btw. That's just what's written.

Spoiler alert for the rest of the book: He tries to control his family again and they say no, because what he's supposed to do is find contentedness in Star Flower. His new wife. She becomes a Clear Sky Stan and acts as a writer mouthpiece for how cool and strong he is.

And THAT. THAT is why they were always going to waste Star Flower. They aren't telling a story about how Clear Sky is just like One Eye, and that he effectively got out-dictator'd by a bigger boot, and that he has to reflect on that. No, they're playing this completely straight, One Eye was a point of reference. He's what ""EVIL"" is supposed to look like, to contrast Clear Sky, who was NOT evil.

So they don't think there COULD BE a person who encourages his worse instincts, the way the fandom wants Star Flower to do. He doesn't HAVE worse instincts, his ""abuse"" was just love misapplied. Or, more accurately, it can't be abuse if it was based in real love.

Star Flower is not a person. She is a sexy lamp for Clear Sky to win.

[warrior-cats-rewritten]

So hawkfrost is not bad?

Nope! Hawkfrost is not a bad guy! Hawkfrost is suffering with intrusive thoughts caused by early childhood trauma, and an unstable environment, encouraged by Leopardstar, who saw him as the heir to Tigerclan, and pushed him to follow through.

Because, to me? Some of the things he says in Mothwing's Secret? That is trauma. That is paranoia. And the worst part is, it's justified. They were being discriminated against. Both of them are suffering under Riverclan/The Clans.

But, in WCR, it's even worse, with Leopardstar holding and her supporters having vicious double standards. Hawkfrost should be leader one day, but Mothwing wanting to be Medicine Cat? Absolutely not, not without a sign from Starclan. Tadpole wants to keep his name? No way! He’s a Clan Cat now! He can be Frogheart or he can leave, after all, -heart is such a lovely suffix, why is he whining anyways?

All this, with Tigerstar haunting him after the Road Trip and the Journey with him suddenly being dumped into deputy position unfairly? Mistyfoot was found before the Clans left the Forest, but he is being pushed harder and harder by Leopardstar's followers...

I'm not sure if he fakes the sign to help Mothwing as a misguided attempt at helping her, or if Mistfang does it to force her to "support" her brother... It is Mistfang's idea at the end of the day, I'm just not sure who exactly executes it.

I just know Hawkfrost is going to later execute Mistfang, his very own evil aunt. Blood Spils Blood.

He and Primroseheart have 2 surviving children, Duskfur, and Cloudsnap.

[residents-of-the-darkforest]

Ok so I came across this blog and I'm super interested in it, and I have some questions. One, why are kits in the DF? How does that happen? Two, can you explain why SC is literally sending people with minor infractions to hell? Is starclan the evil ones here?? Also, great work!!

First off, THANK YOU! It's always so nice to hear people's interest in my blog.

It actually got me thinking so much during my drive home, and it made me decide on something interesting (prepare, this is probably gonna be a long post).

The Dark Forest isn't really Hell.

As far as everyone knows, it is, because they don't know what--if anything--lies beyond a second death.

It is actually a type of purgatory. They're not quite dead, not quite alive.

Cats can repopulate, get infections and wounds and heal from them, grow to a certain age, etc. All just like the living.

They also have horrible wounds that only a corpse could have, can go forever without the need to eat, can twist their bodies and take out their organs. All things the dead can do.

That's why they can have kits, as well as do the above stated. Because part of them is still alive--they just don't know it.

It's a second chance, no matter if they may be redeemable or not, everyone condemned gets the second chance. A lot of cats have taken that chance even though they believe they are in Hell. They built a community. They take care of each other. They find peace without the restrictions of the code, abuse they may have faced, or other factors. It really is like living again, only happier.

They fail that second chance when they die.

There is no clear reason, as anyone who dies again is condemned-condemned, no matter the cause. Those who were killed because they continued to be violent, those who were killed because someone else was violent, mistake, accident, etc. They all end up in the actual Warriors Hell.

EDIT:

This is no longer the case for anyone who dies a second time when they have redeemed themself in some capacity. Cats who have become good after death, or Dark Kits/Grand-Dark Kits who die, can reincarnate if they die within nine heartbeats of a kit, anywhere in the world, being born.

Now, what is the Warriors Hell?

The Void.

Or some other name idk.

It's a place that stretches on forever in complete blackness. The ground is black, the sky, everything. Cats may remember what they did at first, but over time that slips away. They forget their life. They forget what came after. They forget their name. All they know is to walk, walk, walk. It was to search for a way out of the darkness, it always is, but for everyone, at some point or another, they only know to move because they always have been.

The space is so vast that the chance of someone running into someone else is 1 in 10000, and who's to say if they're even capable of communication at that point. And if someone freshly killed met someone that was there for a really long time, well then they're meeting their future.

-------------------------------

The first instance of an oc (most, actually) being condemned for unfair or minor reasons comes from submitters, and I leaned into it.

It's not too surprising for Starclan to be pricks, after the whole Squirrelflight's Hope incident (and the Erins saying once that two cats were sent to the DF because they were upset they got injured/their kits died??)

I go into more detail on this post, but the gist is that if they hurt someone, they can hurt someone again, and in Starclan where cats should be at peace, that can't fly.

Not everyone in Starclan is happy about it, mainly parents, but majority wins.