#I will be an early original shipper since day 1 | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

stormblessed95 · 2 years ago

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Heya Stormy! (Hope it's okay to call you like that😅)

This is my first ask on Tumblr, so I hope i'm not doing anything wrong, i'm understandable (english isn't my first language, unfortunately) and i'm not breaking any of your rules.

First of all, I really want to tell you that I really appreciate your blog and love how you always support everything with comparisons from your own life (or others) and how you provide us with original content and support us to see them and form our own opinions. 💜

I'd love to ask you some questions and get your thoughts about it. I hope you haven't answered them before and I just missed it (otherwise please link them again!). And I'm hard at work going through your masterlist and your other posts (that's really a lot, respect! And I'm probably still counting as a Baby Army (October 2021) and young Jikook supporter, so it'll take me a while to get through). So...

1. Who do you think is on Jimin's lock screen during the Sunshine-line Wlive in Busan? It looks like the pics from the Vminkook outing in LA so maybe Jimin, Tae or JK? Do you think Jimin would take himself as lock screen? And I heard that Hobi might have been there too, or am I just mixing it up? As far as I know there aren't any pictures of him...

2. I would like to hear your thoughts about the timeline while they were in Busan and about the Taekook beach debate. Simply because I am confused by the different statements and times and your posts and replies often help me to understand. Also, you often point out things or views that I would have missed. And I just enjoy your thought processes and your writing. So first I heard that there were rumors that JK and Tae arrived early (on 13.10?) and that they were on the Busan beach at night (around 3 o’clock?) with staff and there is a video of them (please JK, if you were there with Tae, please show us the pictures, they must be mega cute!🥺🥰) and that they shared a hotel room. And that Koo was in Busan at the time of the video recording for Jimin's birthday. For that another question: do you think Jimin and Jungkook didn't sleep with their parents to protect them or because it was too far away or something? Or maybe there are guidelines from Hybe that all their idols have to share the same hotel for logistics and security reasons? When do you think JK and Jimin visited their parents, the 13th or the 14th? And Tae was out to dinner with his parents and his friend Seo-Joon on the 15th (I'm so happy for him that they were there and he got to spend time with them) and Hobi was also out once (?). Did I miss something?

I recently stumbled across the Jikook timeline by jiminieloved and was extremely pleased with the great sorting and lots of content that was unfamiliar to me. Since Tumblr confuses me and I don't really know who you know and who you don't, I thought I'd mention it. If you know and can recommend other great in-depth Jikook or OT7 blogs I would be very happy. Same goes for non-shipper (but also Jikook or other pairings) translators who gives background on language, expression and culture. And since you responded to a Taekook account the other day (thetaekookcloset), I took a look at that one and liked it. While I don't agree with her/his/their (?) opinion, blogs like this still give me a different perspective, which I think is important and interesting. Plus they often have cute new gifs and pictures. If you know any good blogs about other pairings I'd really appreciate it too.

And now I stop rambling and apologize for this long question text and wish a good night (is it 1 o'clock for me)

P.S. the new pics from today and the dance practice video from Run... 😶😵‍💫🥺 they all look so great, I love Yoongi's hairstyle and Hobi's outfit and who destroyed Jimin's sweater? XD I just love them so much <3

Hi! Sorry it took me so long to answer this. I'll do my best. Lol as for your first question, who's Jimins photo background? I mean, people DO post themselves as their background, especially when at cool places and its a more artistic photo and not just a selfie all the time. Jimin even shared back in 2015 that his phone background was a photo of him and Yoongi together. SO I do personally think its himself at beach. Otherwise the possibilities are that it's either JK, Tae or Hobi. Hobi DID go to beach. There is some speculation on if he was there with the maknae line or by himself at an earlier time, but they all posted photos there and were all 4 there. Maknae line defintely there together, Hobi maybe (probably?) With them too. The 4 of them were all attached at the hip in LA and going on little dates all together the whole time. Lol it was so cute. And it's such a blurry blob from what we can see, it's hard to make any kind of reasonable guess lol

The 4 of them with their beach photos in LA (Hobi, Jimin, Jikook, Tae in order):

2) Busan Timeline! Lol not easy, and nothing is definitive honestly either. But we can try to piece it together in a way that makes sense. Honestly this just feels like the nicest phrased can you debunk tkkr rumors for me ask. Lol No, Tae and JK didn't show up to Busan early. They were in Rehersals with the rest of the members up until they all left for Busan at the same time. Jimin during his WLive stated that they had all just got done rehearsaling together before he went and started his birthday live. But let's timeline it.

youtube

October 12th

BTS members all together in rehearsals and practice and filmed the RUN BTS practice video. He was in the same outfit when Hobi caught him in the company building after filming said dance practice (above) and said he just wanted to wish him a happy birthday. Before assuming they went to get ready to travel to Busan.

Jimin then changed his clothes and started his Wlive at 11:49 PM on the 12th. His Wlive ended around 1 AM on the 13th KST time. Link to the live below too

October 13

Jimin ends his live (above) around 1 am and then at some point, presumably all 7 members and their staff get ready to go. They all leave for Busan after this Wlive and then get settled into their hotel. We know they all left then too and not early becayse not only do we see footage of them all there at Hybe on the 12th and not in Busan on the 10th... but they also told us during rhe after concert Wlive that they all came down 2 days before the concert on Jimins bday.

It only takes an hour to fly from Seoul to Busan, it only takes 4 hours to drive. If they left after 1 am, that gave them all plently of time to get into their hotel, settle in, and go to sleep before waking up to rehearse for the concert. Jungkook probably filmed his birthday video for Jimin after getting settled in/before going to sleep right before 5am KST. Almost 5 hours of time between the 2 events (JMs live ending and JK posting) is more than enough time for them to travel there and get settled into their rooms.

They probably rested and then all went to rehearsals later that evening where again, they were all together. Hobi posted again a HBD to Jimin with a video of him FROM rehearsals and Jin posted with him a photo they took after rehearsals

October 14

They spent the next day in rehearsals and practice and setting things up for the concert, that would be the 14th. Jimin and JK probably went to see their parents either on the 13th or 14th to see their families while in town and celebrate Jimins birthday. Sometime when they weren't in rehearsals for odd hours. And as for your side question over why they didn't sleep at their family homes, probably because they were keeping odd practice hours and it was easier and made more sense to stay in the hotel with the rest of their team and all their staff.

October 15

They have their concert! Lol the concert started at 6 PM and ended around 830 PM. Give them some more time to get cleaned up a bit back stage, gather their stuff, leave, get back to the hotel and get resettled in too. And then vhopeminkook do an after concert Wlive for us for just 20 minutes. My Post over that live here. It gets reiterated that they had just all gotten to Busan on the 13th and everything else discussed in the vlive, I basically include in my post linked. JK also mentions having not really gone out to do anything yet while they were there. I'm assuming jikook don't count visiting their family as going to do something. Lol Tae also doesn't eat much of the Ramen snacks, Jikook eat most it. Lol Weverse live link below.

After the Wlive, Tae goes out to dinner with hus family and Hyungshik, his friend from Wooga Squad who all had come to the concert, as well as his manager too. This has been confirmed both by the many fans who saw them there and the restaurant themselves. No other members were there at this dinner.

After the restaurant Tae went to the beach and posted photos to his Instagram that he took while he was out there. Apparently the beach was Haeundae Beach and is quite close to the restaurant that he ate at with his family. So to me, personally, I think it would make more sense to guess that the people at the beach with him were the same people at the restaurant with him. Hyungshik, his manager, maybe a bodygaurd or 2, and maybe his parents too if they decided to come along. Honestly, that just makes more sense to me.

People said it was Jungkook as fact because they claimed the shoe print was birkenstock slipper print of the shoes that JK wore. And that the other shadow who wasn't Tae was wearing a bucket hat and that JK wears bucket hats. (Like no one else owns those shoes, or could make a similar shoe print or wears bucket hats) And someone claimed to have seen them there and posted "proof" which was just a super grainy pixels of what only honestly looked like one person. And for all we know, wasn't even Tae alone but a stranger. Plus that same person was caught lying about other "photo evidence" they had of posting what else they had done that day. Stealing a different armys photo of the line at Magnate. They also proved to be a lowkey sasaeng taking JKs photo after an event where fans werent supposed to really be and posting photos of random motorcycles trying to pass it off as Jungkooks. So clearly their credibility is trash. The evidence just isn't there as proof. And honestly, if JK was there, I'm pretty sure Tae just would've posted him. BUT there also isn't any evidence that JK WASNT there. So it could've been them. Tae could've wanted to go to beach, called up the members and asked if anyone else wanted to go and JK said yes and Taes family all went back to their own hotel instead. So who knows. Passing anything off as fact here is silly. It's likely that it wasn't JK, but it can't be proven one way or the other. Trying to do so is ridiculous.

They claimed Taekook to be sharing a hotel room early (they weren't there early so moot point) or through the rest of their trip because Tae posted the photo above on insta as well in his hotel room bathroom mirror. People found the hotel they were staying at (weirdos) and "proved" taekook were sharing rooms based on how the rooms had the same wall and headboard patterns (they used JKs bday video to Jimin as proof to show his hotel room walls/headboard) and that the bathrobe is the same too (robe you can see is blue/white in the corner of Taes pic).... like hotels don't have a common theme of "things" like walls, headboards, beds, sheets, robes, towels, etc. Lol so again, it's just kind of silly and doesn't make any sense. I'm pretty sure at this point all the members are getting their own rooms as Hybe rents out an entire floor of a hotel for BTS and their staff members when they go places for concerts. Both for comfort and for safety as this is something they can now afford to do. Lol but again, no proof none of the members decided on a hotel room sleepover in any variation. But the "facts" are facts or proof of anything in either direction.

And I think that covers the timeline of the moments you were asking about? Hope that helps some! Thank you for the ask 💜 People fighting about the beach thing was so dumb honestly too. Nobody likes a liar but the weird instance that taekook would never was also so dumb. They are friends who like the beach?? Lol but yeah, the evidence was lacking and it's a weird thing to get so wrapped up in regardless. People need to practice some deep breathing exercises lol If you have more questions or I missed something in this ask, please feel free to come by and ask again!

#jikook #kookmin #because i crush hopes and dreams over here #tkkrs are liars

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hexxalite-hecate · 3 years ago

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I see Cullen x Amell or Cullen x Surana a lot in the Cullen tags, I'm a Cullen x Lavellan shipper and I haven't played Origins, what is the deal with him and the mage warden? Some people say he was obsessed and stalked her, I don't wanna believe that bc I love him but I'm confused about what's canon. I know some people hc they had a relationship but I can't seem to get a straight answer what actually happened in canon? Sorry for random ask 🦁

Hi! I love asks ❤️ And this is a good question!

From what I've seen, this topic can get a bit spicy because people have opinions on Cullen's history with Amell/Surana (hereby referred to as f!mage because I'm lazy). I'm active on the Dragon Age subreddits and I've had a lot of discussions with people who genuinely believe that Cullen is an abusive, stalking rapist, and Bioware did a lazy retcon on his history to turn him into a whitebread vanilla love interest for DAI.

I’ll put my cards on the table: Amell was my first playthrough and subsequently canon Warden, I got attached to Cullen early on, and I love me a bit of Cullen x f!mage fic and art, though my preference is post-Inquisition reunion. I don't agree he’s been retconned from an abusive stalker into a poor little meow meow (and I'll be going into a detailed breakdown of why in a minute). HOWEVER, despite my personal bias I’m going to try and present information fairly so people can draw their own conclusions, and I can definitely see how the less flattering opinions of Cullen wrt f!mage ended up being formed.

There are several explanations for the, ahem, strong views on Cullen’s relationship with f!mage during their time at Kinloch Hold, some entirely reasonable and some less reasonable. Some examples of the range I’ve encountered:

1. People have difficulty emotionally separating the character of Cullen from his VA, who holds some utterly loathsome alt-right stances and has historically used the character to try and spread those disgusting views. (Can't really blame anyone for this, fuck that guy.)

2. People haven't actually played through Origins as f!mage and only have second-hand knowledge of his canon interactions, going off hearsay that gets escalated and distorted like a Thedosian game of telephone. Well, lucky for you I gathered every single interaction between them into this post, so now you have the facts to make an informed decision.

3. Information from abandoned writing concepts and dev interviews often conflicts with what’s actually presented in the game itself, muddying the waters with regard to Cullen’s character vision. (This one is genuinely complicated, but I'll try and present everything fairly for your consideration.)

4. A lot of fans understandably started disliking Cullen based on the choices he makes and the viewpoints he espouses in DA2. This doesn't directly affect his relationship with f!mage at the Tower, since all their interactions happened before that point. However, some people argue that his behaviour during DA2 indicates tendencies that he would have had from the beginning, including during their time at Kinloch Hold together. It also affects his post-Circle opinions of her, which is relevant to whether or not he could be termed as obsessive. This, too, is complicated, and I'll try to be as fair and unbiased as possible.

I'm going to tackle your ask by breaking it down into two main parts. Firstly, what is the canon evidence of exactly how involved Cullen and f!mage were at the Ferelden Circle? And secondly, what canon evidence is there that this involvement was characterised by obsessive/predatory/stalker behaviour, and in what way does that behaviour develop through later games?

Buckle up, this turned out long.

1. What canon evidence is there of f!mage and Cullen’s relationship at Kinloch Hold?

Let's take this from the beginning, based directly on what f!mage encounters in the game. On waking from your Harrowing, you are immediately greeted by this ambient conversation from two gossiping apprentices:

If you walk around spam clicking other apprentices, one will also volunteer this information:

So, we are immediately given evidence that whoever Cullen is, his feelings for you are obvious enough to be a general subject of gossip. Interesting! But it doesn’t say anything about your character’s feelings for him. Are we in a forbidden relationship? Or is my character only just finding out about this? Would she react with ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) or ಠ_ಠ? Ok, let's go talk to the guy himself and find out what the deal is.

(Forgive the cut and pasted dialogue; I just centred it over his head so I don’t have to post full size screenshots.)

Straight away, we can see that Cullen is a stuttering, bumbling wreck. He stumbles over his words and clumsily tries to make conversation. We are presented with a range of options in response to his greeting:

As you can see from these options, f!mage seems to know who Cullen is. There’s no “Uh, who are you again?” dialogue. However, she doesn’t appear to know him very well. They’re unfamiliar enough that when he tries to compliment her, he has to obfuscate:

If they had any sort of relationship, whether simple friendship or more, Cullen wouldn’t need to hide that he’s familiar with an apparently key part of her personality - that she’s confident. To me, that reads that they’ve hardly interacted outside the occasional nod in the hallways, or at the very most a brief conversation.

I suppose you could argue that they’ve been having purely physical trysts that account for them having a ‘relationship’ without him knowing her personality very well, but his bumbling awkwardness seems utterly contradictory to that theory. And then, as the nail in the coffin, we get this:

F!mage can suggest such a tryst herself, picking up on his attraction and showing reciprocation. Cullen reacts first with confusion, then stunned realisation... then absolute rejection.

Then he automatically ends the conversation and literally runs away from you.

Despite his obvious attraction - described as love, no less, by random NPCs - he doesn’t even entertain the idea of acting on his desires. We’ll come back to this conversation in the second part, because Cullen’s language reveals a lot about why he rejects you. But for now, the important thing is that he does, and nothing about this exchange indicates that there have been previous, non-rejected encounters.

So, the definitive answer to the question did Cullen and f!mage have a romantic or sexual relationship at the Tower?

No. Through their canon interactions, we can deduce that they were both aware of the other’s existence, and f!mage’s opinion of him is anything from dismissive to neutral to flirty depending on your dialogue choices. However, these canon interactions completely contradict the idea of them having any kind of established romantic or sexual relationship - or even just friendship, given Cullen’s hasty “or so I’ve heard” correction, or f!mage’s offer that “we should get to know each other”. Obviously players can headcanon anything they like - I’m partial to friends with mutual unspoken crushes - but it’s not canon.

So that’s that. Now on to the second, less clear-cut, messier question...

2. Did Cullen ever behave in an obsessive/predatory/stalkerish way towards f!mage?

Oh man. There is a LOT of ground to cover here.

Let’s take this in chronological order. Firstly, let’s examine their actual relationship at Kinloch Hold, using all the canon evidence above. It’s clear from their interactions that this relationship - such as it is - is weighted more towards one side. Cullen’s feelings are so obvious that everyone and their dog is gossiping about them. It’s also evident through your conversation with him that he and f!mage don’t actually know each other very well, so regardless of whether or not your character chooses to shock him by actually showing interest in return, Cullen’s feelings up until that point must have been born of watching and admiring her from afar. So yes, there’s scope to interpret such behaviour anywhere on the spectrum from youthful crush to obsessive, and there isn’t much primary source information to confirm one way or the other. But predatory? I don’t believe the canon information supports that Cullen ever behaved in a predatory way towards f!mage during her apprenticeship in the Ferelden Circle, and here’s why.

To set the scene, we have already been shown that Cullen is young and idealistic. He’s 19, and very clearly inexperienced in terms of navigating social situations. (F!Mage’s age is flexible, but since Harrowings are not generally taken until 18/19, she and Cullen are either contemporaries or f!mage is actually older than him, which neutralises that particular facet of imbalance). Every writing choice made for Cullen during the mage origin intro highlights that he is simply naïve, unable to conceal his crush and unaware of how revealing his statements are. Look at this; he can’t even stop telling on himself while he’s actually talking to you, let alone with anyone else:

These are very stark writing choices which make the character of Cullen seem as awkward, bumbling, nonthreatening and - dare I say it - cute as possible. This was intended to be endearing. Take a look at the VO direction for Cullen’s voice acting, taken from this post of @soularia discussing the same topic:

Sincere and sweet is the clincher for me. There’s no way to reconcile that with predatory. Even if you personally disagree that the overall effect was endearing rather than creepy, the directorial intent was clearly to evoke the former.

However, even if Cullen’s attentions at the Ferelden Circle can be characterised as an innocent crush, the next hurdle to clear is the inherent imbalance of power between Templar and mage, which is one of the major issues people have with his romantic fixation. Despite his youth and inexperience, Cullen is still in a position of authority over f!mage, and as such any relationship between them would be inherently exploitative. But as you can see from his rejection dialogue, the person who is most cognizant and serious about that imbalance is Cullen himself. When Cullen turns f!mage down, the language he uses is very revealing - he doesn’t say “No, we’ll get in trouble” or even “No, your kind and mine shouldn’t mix” (which you might expect from his stance in DA2). He says “it would be really inappropriate.” You’re offering him everything he wants on a silver platter, and he won’t take it because he’s the one who’s concerned about power imbalances. That speaks of responsibility and duty of care, not predation. If his behaviour was narratively intended to be read as predatory, this would have been the perfect place to hammer that point home. You could even do it in a soft-touch morally grey way - “oh we shouldn’t, but I just can’t help it!” But instead, pains are taken to ensure the player sees Cullen acting in a respectful and principled manner.

So it’s perfectly understandable for fans to dislike the Cullen/f!mage dynamic because of the inherent power balance. However, I think it’s unfair to term Cullen himself as predatory because of it. The imbalance is not of his making, and despite his feelings, he does the exact opposite of exploiting it.

I think it’s interesting that Cullen isn’t present alongside the other Templars in the scene outside the repository when f!mage and Jowan are confronted by Greagoir and Irving, and as such we have no chance to see what side he would pick in that scenario. If you pursue the relevant dialogue options during your earlier conversation, he regretfully declares that should you have been possessed by a demon during your Harrowing, he would have followed protocol and helped the rest of the Templars put you down, despite his personal feelings on the matter:

Ouch. This tracks with the ‘duty first’ mentality that causes him to reject your proposition, even though it’s presumably all he dreams about. This topic of conversation makes Cullen visibly uncomfortable in both voice and mannerisms - because it’s fucked up and he seems painfully aware of that - and he moves on as soon as possible. But I think it’s interesting to note that in the one situation where his devotion to duty could have been proven - at the confrontation outside the repository - Cullen is conspicuously absent. It’s possible there’s nothing narratively meaningful about his exclusion from this scene, but part of me wonders whether it was intentionally kept ambiguous whether he really would have been able to attack f!mage if Greagoir ordered him to. This one is up for individual interpretation, however, and I’m aware that it’s another major reason the Cullen x f!mage pairing leaves a sour taste in some fans’ mouths. If nothing else, it’s consistent with his character presentation so far.

(As an aside, it’s interesting to note that the one time we do see Cullen presented with this choice - in the final act of DA2 - he chooses to stand with Hawke against the rest of the Templars. And that’s during his worst phase of mage prejudice. But we’re getting ahead of ourselves.)

Cullen and f!mage next cross paths where all the non-mage PCs meet him for the first time: during the Broken Circle quest, where he’s been tortured, starved, assaulted and abused for days by a Desire Demon wearing the shape of none other than f!mage. This is where we get definitive proof of Cullen’s feelings, in the form of a delirious confession:

(NB: the fact that one of your dialogue options here is basically “so who the fuck were you, again?” is both hilarious and sad. Poor Cullen.)

There’s some epic Greek-tragedy-cum-extreme-Catholic-guilt here, and let me tell you this shit was like catnip to the angst sluts when DAO first came out. You have to understand that female players were typically NOT catered to in the gaming scene of 2009, especially in terms of fanservice, and having this himbo pour out his agonised forbidden desire for your character hit a LOT of people’s targets. There’s a reason Cullen was a breakout favourite. (I’m aware that mores have changed since then and this particular trope might be recieved less favourably in a more recent game. This was 2009. We had to take what we could get.)

Anyhow, regardless of all this, Cullen insists that the ordeal he’s been subjected to has destroyed whatever tender boyish regard he may once have nurtured, and says some pretty jaded and upsetting things to back it up:

What we’re seeing here is the genesis of Cullen’s radicalisation, which is hale and flourishing by DA2. I won’t go into detail about this here because it’s getting off topic, but one interesting thing to note is a line which serves as evidence against the theory that Cullen held his DA2-era radical opinions before his ordeal at the Tower:

This seems to indicate that prior to Uldred’s rebellion, Cullen was a mage sympathiser in the mould of Ser Thrask. (This was later confimed in a messageboard comment by his writer - we’ll get to that bit later.) Food for thought - however, we’re straying from our intended path.

The fact that the easiest way for the Desire Demon to break Cullen is to use his feelings for f!mage is very telling. Remember, Desire Demons are not simply about sex, despite how much boob-fondling Bioware insisted on programming into their models. The Desire Demon who possessed Connor in Redcliffe played on his wish for his father to be healed. Cullen could have had plenty of things for the demon to work with - he might have been hungry to prove himself as a devoted Templar, or conversely been dissatisfied with his life choices and yearned to see more the world - but no, it’s his feelings for f!mage that the demon focuses on like a laser beam. This trick, again? Cullen says when you find him outside the Harrowing Chamber. Still here? But that’s always worked before! I close my eyes, but when I open them you are still here! “Again”; “always” - this was more than once. The demon has been using the f!mage doppelganger technique over and over. Such insistence on this tactic by the demon - who can see directly into Cullen’s head - seems to indicate that Cullen’s feelings have moved beyond mere crush into something potent enough to be used to break his spirit entirely. How might Cullen have been affected in the time between f!mage leaving the Tower with Duncan, and miraculously returning as the prodigal daughter during Broken Circle? Remember, the news from Ostagar was that everyone but Loghain’s unit was dead. Until her reappearance in Broken Circle, Cullen was likely under the impression that his crush had died a horrific and violent death at the hands of monsters. What does that do to a lovelorn teenager? Well, it’s possible that grief and lack of a healthy emotional outlet turned those innocent feelings into an obsession. As we’ll see later, Cullen makes some curious remarks indicating that he has pedastalised f!mage in his memories. But this is moving into the realm of speculation again, and we’re getting ahead of ourselves.

This scene marks the end of Cullen and f!mage’s canon interactions in the Ferelden Circle. Despite being present during the post-battle discussion with Greagoir (and Irving, if he survives), Cullen does not address f!mage again directly, and this is his last on-screen appearance in DAO. However, he is one of the few characters who returns in all three games. So what can we glean about Cullen’s ongoing feelings from his appearances in the later instalments of the DA series?

Let’s look at Cullen’s attitude towards Amell/Surana post-Origins - how long can you nurse a crush before it becomes unhealthy?

Before we move on from DAO, let’s squeeze in a last little bit of piping hot tea from our favourite Kinloch Hold gossip girls:

This takes place during your return to the Tower in the expansion Witch Hunt, set roughly two years after the Blight. Apparently Cullen’s crush was such a juicy topic that it’s still being brought up, even though neither of he nor f!mage have been at the Ferelden Circle for literal years now. However, the question of whether he’s still holding that torch doesn’t get an answer from Kristen Bell over there, and since Cullen himself isn’t present to confirm or deny it, there’s no further information to be had here. To get the update from the lion’s mouth, we need to spin on to DA2.

There’s a lot to be said about Cullen’s decisions, viewpoints and state of mind during DA2, and I could write an entire separate post about the toxic behaviour that can result from extreme trauma, PTSD and radicalisation (and probably will; just give me a week with my psychotherapy textbooks and I’ll post another thesis-length meta). While Cullen’s fragile and toxic state of mind during DA2 does have a bearing on this discussion, I’m going to try and keep things focused on the topic of the ask, just to stop this post from tipping over into magnum opus territory.

The comment Cullen makes to Hawke in DA2 is specifically directed towards f!Amell, since you can only trigger it by bringing up Hawke’s family connection to the Hero of Ferelden - but we can reasonably assume he’d have the same opinion of Surana if asked. When congratulating Hawke on restoring the status of the Amells in Kirkwall, Cullen will make this statement, entirely unprompted and unsolicited:

This is completely contradictory to every sentiment Cullen expresses regarding mages for the entirety of DA2, and entirely conflicts with the manner of his parting with Amell after the Broken Circle quest. He’s been tortured, abused, traumatised and radicalised, and he spends the 7 years of DA2 unequivocally paying it forward. Every word he speaks about mages in this game is about damage control, and how their human rights must be balanced with the dangers they present to society. Whether you agree with this or not (I don’t, obviously), it’s inescapably part of his ideology in Kirkwall. Arguably the starkest and hardest-to-handwave nadir of his character arc is when he insists to Hawke that “mages aren’t people like you and me”. Cullen can’t see past his fear and trauma to even consider mages human.

And yet this comment about Amell, a mage who was (unwittingly and unwillingly) central to the abuse he endured? No caveats at all. Not “she was special, for a mage”. He doesn’t mention the fevered accusations he threw at her in the wake of the disaster at the Tower, when he claimed he was beyond caring what she thought of him, and accused her of dooming them all with her ‘compassion’ if she chose to spare the mages. There are no qualifiers to his wistful statement, and it remains the same regardless of what story choices you made in DAO - Amell could have left the village of Redcliffe to burn, killed a ten year old boy, joined a crime syndicate and robbed Denerim blind, defiled the Urn of Sacred Ashes and been an honest-to-god blood mage, and Cullen’s still reminiscing like she’s a milkmaid he had a summer fling with. He completely disregards the complex and negative circumstances in which they parted, and explicitly separates her from other mages (because she’s not like them, apparently).

Now, you could argue that Cullen has simply accepted that his torture by a Desire Demon hiding behind a lifesize Amell cutout was not in fact the real Amell’s fault, that he regrets his hasty chastisement of her, and has peaceably and healthily decided to move on without malice. But his baseline indictment of literally every other mage ever is not compatible with this reading. He can’t healthily and fondly reminisce about Amell while also hating and fearing all other mages. You could argue that Cullen’s use of “special” and “never met her like again” could simply refer to her saintly status as Hero of Ferelden, but keep in mind that this dialogue is only in the game to be an easter egg for Amell DAO players. The writers were explicitly throwing a bone to existing Cullen fans, who at this point were overwhelmingly mage origin players who’d experienced Cullen crushing on their character and got attached to him as a result. In this orchestrated context, Cullen’s reminiscences are intentionally and directly linked to his romantic feelings, and his mental separation of her from mages et al actually denote that Cullen has put Amell on a pedestal, and is idolising his memories of her.

Considering the context and implications of this exchange, I don’t think it’s unreasonable for players to infer at this point that Cullen has unrealistic and possibly obsessive tendencies towards the mage Warden.

That’s the only mention of f!mage we get in DA2, despite the wealth of character insight the game gives us into Cullen’s 7-year annus horribilis. But what about during DAI, after Cullen has undergone his so-called ‘retcon’ into an acceptable human being? How does he feel about f!mage a full 10 years after their last canon interaction, now he’s left the Tempalr order and been deradicalised of his least palatable opinions?

Yet again, the writers are generous with the bones they throw to those original mage Warden DAO players. We, as Inquisitor, get the opportunity to probe Cullen when the topic of the Hero of Ferelden comes up. Not having managed to play through DAI with the correct worldstate yet, I have none of my own dialogue screenshots on hand, and will have to direct you to a youtube video of the exchange (keep in mind that this conversation is with a ROMANCED Inquisitor):

Inquisitor: If you don’t mind my asking... the Hero of Ferelden was a Circle mage. Did you know her?

Cullen: I attended her Harrowing, actually. She was a lovely woman.

Inquisitor: ...“Lovely?”

Cullen: There was some... youthful infatuation on my part. A feeling I had forsaken until recently.

Inquisitor: You never acted on it?

Cullen: She was one of my charges. Even if she felt the same, it would have been... inappropriate. I saw her once, after she became a Warden. She freed the Tower during the Blight - I would be dead or mad if not for her. I was in a sorry state when she found me. The things I said were... unkind. Untoward. I regret them now. I wish she knew that.

This exchange is a cornucopia of hidden gems. Cullen’s tone is wistful, fond, a little sad. In general, I really do agree that Cullen sounds like he has a sane and stable handle on his historic trauma by this point in the series, and his evaluation of the way he and f!mage parted is self-aware and fair. His use of the words infatuation and inappropriate echo his language from DAO and give legitimacy and consistency to his character arc. But it does amuse me that he’s still throwing out unsolicited compliments like “she was a lovely woman”, and to his CURRENT GIRLFRIEND at that. And what’s this about “a feeling I had forsaken until recently”? Is he actually implying that he’s had no romantic feelings for anyone between f!mage stealing his heart and getting together with the Inquisitor? No dates? No relationships? Not even any interest in anyone else at all for 10 freaking years? That’s really not helping the ‘not obsessive’ meter. It’s also eerily similar to his pedestalling “never met her like again” comment from DA2.

Then we have a snippet of banter around the War Table which only occurs if you imported a worldstate where Leliana romanced the f!mage Warden. Again, I will have to rely on the kindness of others and direct you to a video that isn’t mine:

Cullen: So you and, er...

Leliana: Yes?

Cullen: Was she - I mean, did she ever...

Leliana: Are you asking for details?

Cullen: I-ah - no! That would be... inappropriate.

Of course, f!mage is never mentioned by name, but by the use of the running joke inappropriate coupled with Cullen’s stuttering, stumbling speech which echoes his earliest DAO introduction, it’s clear what we’re meant to infer. Did she ever... what? Ask about Cullen? Bring him up? Discuss her memories of the Tower? Want to see him again? Bioware knew exactly what they were doing with this snippet. Those who know, know. Those who don’t, don’t. But it does indicate that even though 10 years have passed, Cullen is still preoccupied with f!mage, and is noticeably concerned about her opinion of him. As before, he reacts appropriately (heh) by dropping the subject... but he just couldn’t help but ask, the same way he couldn’t help but tell on himself all those years ago.

(Of course, if f!mage died fighting the Archdemon in your particular canon, it adds a different and very sad facet to his wistful musings. Cullen’s last memory of her would be that terrible interaction after the disaster at the Tower, and consequently there will never be a chance for him to gain closure, leaving him full of grief and regret. That sort of thing can really mess a person up - and incidentally, it’s much easier to pedastalise a dead person than a living one. No wonder he was too traumatised to love again for a decade. Honestly this possibility is just tragic.)

This juncture seems the opportune place to bring up the controversial subject of decanonised or canon-adjacent material, which often paints a darker interpretation of Cullen. Sheryl Chee, who wrote for Cullen in DAO, made the following statements about her vision of the character in a messageboard discussion with fans after DAO’s release (relevant comments on pages 2 - 7):

I’d say he starts out tragically oppressed with some tendencies towards creepy stalker (I think you’d have to be, to be a templar). He ends up, I believe, completely broken mentally and emotionally and hates both himself and the femMagePC. I think nothing, not even love, can redeem him. He’s too far gone. Of course, that’s not canon, it’s just my take on it, and I revel in the angst and the pain.

Despite Sheryl’s own assertion that her comments aren’t canon, obviously opinions from the writer herself hold a lot of weight, and it’s important to realise that this quote was a strong influence on fandom’s divided opinions on Cullen. If this was where Sheryl was coming from during development, however, I do feel like something must have got a little lost in translation between her initial writing of the character and Cullen’s VO direction and in-game depiction. Maybe it’s my bias, and you’re free to draw your own conclusions based on the facts presented, but in my opinion her description bears no resemblance to the Cullen we actually experience, in-game, during the mage origin of DAO. You can’t claim that a romance between Cullen and f!mage would be “very quick, very violent, and only undertaken as a way to get her out of his system” alongside a voice acting direction that describes him as “sincere and sweet”. Make your mind up! No wonder people got mixed messages and everyone’s arguing with each other!

Sheryl’s further posts regarding the matter also contradict herself:

I did imagine him to be a young, fairly normal kid torn between his hormones and his duty. Like a more serious Alistair. Later on we decided we needed a templar survivor in the post-Uldred tower, and since people seem to enjoy it when they see people from their past, I decided to make it Cullen. In the beginning, he is sympathetic to the mages, but he comes away very changed by the things Uldred and the demons do to him.

As for the creepy stalker tendencies--er... I think that may have been started by David Gaider's little Cullen Romance snippet. I never imagined him as a creepy stalker.

Given this clarification, I feel we ought to take her initial comments with a sizeable grain of salt - but people do use these quotes to justify the darker reading of Cullen, so I think it’s important to note that not even Sheryl herself was serious or consistent about it.

I think the problem here is that there was undoubtedly some playing around with Cullen’s trajectory in the writers room, and those aborted arcs have been set free on the internet and absorbed into people’s interpretation of the main canon (not helped by Cullen’s legitimate spiral into radicalisation during DA2). Sheryl Chee’s darker vision was echoed in the infamous (and latterly decanonised as ‘false rumours’) DAO epilogue that claims Cullen had a psychotic break and slaughtered three apprentices:

The young templar Cullen never quite recovered from his ordeal. After months of attempting to convince his superiors that the tower was still a danger, he finally snapped and killed three apprentices before being stopped by his fellow templars. Eventually, Cullen escaped from prison, a madman and a threat to any mage he encountered.

Again, it was decanonised. But again, it does add fuel to the fire.

Then we have a datamined line of voice acting from DAI here (timestamp 1:57) which has Leliana angrily reacting to a messenger bringing news of what appears to be Cullen nagging for details about the mage Warden, similar to their earlier and much more restrained War Table banter. No names are mentioned, but I don’t think it’s unreasonable to assume we’re covering the same old ground here:

Leliana: I thought this obsession was over! Has he been drinking?

Agent: I don’t know; I’m just the messenger.

Leliana: Tell him to drop it! I am not going to discuss what she was like!

Welp, she actually uses the word obsession. Again, this was presumably cut for a reason, and I guess it’s because it didn’t gel with Cullen’s deradicalised and softer character trajectory.

However, these abandoned arcs do indicate that there was a lot of concept-stage (and even development stage) flirting with the darker depictions of Cullen, and that’s undoubtedly where the arguments stem from. A lot of these concepts have filtered into the fandom consciousness, especially now DAO is a 12-year-old game that not everyone wants to actually play to see for themselves what’s true and what’s false. In that respect, I really can’t fault anyone for using these secondary-source snippets in their character interpretation of Cullen, since you could argue there’s plenty of evidence in the actual gameplay that dovetails with it.

So, my answer to the ask? No, it’s canon that there was no discernable relationship between Cullen and f!mage at the Tower, regardless of whether your character flirts with him, and his behaviour during that time indicates responsibility more than predation. As to whether Cullen exhibits obsessive behaviour to the female mage Warden after their separation? Well... this one’s trickier. I think it’s clear that whatever feelings he once held were exploited and warped through severe trauma and abuse, and that he did unrealistically romanticise his memory of her while he was going through his most fragile mental period in DA2. However, I think it’s also clear that his grasp of the situation is far more realistic and grounded by the time DAI rolls around, though he still holds a harmless torch for an old flame.

Those are my conclusions, though. My parting words are that it’s up to your own interpretation. You now have all the facts, canon, canon-adjacent or decanonised, and you can conclude from them what you wish.

Typical. Four and a half thousand words just to say that.

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spneveryseason · 3 years ago

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Results of the Supernatural Origins Survey: Part 1 of 2

Hey all! As you may remember, a while back I posted a survey to try to see if there were any interesting trends in when we started watching the show, why we liked it, and why we kept going. Thank you so much to everyone who responded! I read and appreciated all the comments that you guys left as well. I’ve now compiled all your responses into charts, and since tumblr only allows ten images per post I will have to make this 2 different parts. Hope you enjoy!

Which season was the first season you watched?

Pretty runaway result here: most people started watching at season 1! This is most likely because people wanted to go sequentially and makes a lot of sense to me! This also reveals that the large majority of people decided to start at the beginning rather than the middle somewhere. Another interesting thing to note is the very distant second: season 4 with 4%.

Some of your comments on this topic include:

I technically saw the confession scene first but then went back and started from the beginning after the finale

The first episode I ever saw was 4*17, randomly on tv, in early 2011. They were showing two episodes a day on whatever network that was. I got hooked and went to watch it all from the beginning. Then, once I caught up, I was binging each season as it was released on netflix or dvd. So, I was behind on the 5th itself.

So, for extra context: I was a General Audience viewer from S3-S7 just catching episodes at random because it was on and I liked horror/comedy. No expectations, barely knew who anyone was besides Sam and Dean tbh. During S9, I properly got into and watched/caught up from the beginning to catch up to a friend (a Casgirl who had been going through it.) She was however a Destiel shipper and as a result I did watch with some shipper goggles on that never came back off. During the pandemic I got back into it on my own (after falling behind from S10-S12) to catch up for the finale and definitely watched mostly for the ships (Destiel, Saileen, etc). However nowadays post-finale shipping/multishipping is where I have a lot of fun, but far from the only reason I still think about and watch the show anymore. If anything it was more a gateway for me to get into it for real and enjoy other characters/dynamics even more than ever.

this show spans across 3 different decades and personally it's incredible to kind of see my feelings towards the show evolve over time the older and more aware I get. I had 3 major periods of watching the show in my life, with not watching in between. when I started (s4-5), resurgence/started using tumblr (s8-9), and post confession. I started watching as a teenager and now I'm almost 30. like for example, when I first started the Gordon eps didn't register anything, but seeing those episodes now and understanding the implicit racism they are impossible to watch. it's not only being aware of myself but seeing the show itself evolve and change, but also NOT evolve or change in certain aspects. anyway sorry for all this thanks for the survey!

i hadn’t watched it in a decade and then 11/5/21 kicked my ass.

i “started watching” in season four but that was just the first episode i watched in it’s entirety. i proceeded to watch everything else out of order

to be very clear with this i watched season 1-8 as a teenager and then stopped watching for like 6 years and THEN when covid hit in march 2020 i watched all 15 seasons of it with friends over netflix party. it was a very start and stop relationship with "watching" supernatural.

Which season was airing when you first started?

This answer is pretty varied, with some interesting results! First place here is season 8, meaning 15% of people started watching between 2012/2013. Next is season 9 (2013/2014), then post season 15 (after nov 2020), then season 7 (2011/2012), then season 15 (2019/2020). As for the why, I’m assuming because the show was at its online height between 2012-2014, which would have encouraged people to start watching. It also got a lot of attention during its final three episodes, which explains the number of people that started after the show ended.

Some of your comments on this topic include:

sorry i picked all of the "other" options ajsljdskdj and thank you for making this survey! very interested to see the data that comes out of it. also can't wait to get to 4x1 and meet cas because i get the sense from tumblr that he's the funniest character in the show

I'd been aware of the show since at least 2006/2007 and knew basic stuff about plot and characters through simply being in online fandom spaces. I was spoiled for a LOT by the time I actually started watching in the summer after s7 - had been meaning to actually watch it for a while and finally got off my butt and did it as part of bonding with a new (at the time) friend who really wanted me to watch it and share my thoughts. We've been together since 2014 now - SPN fandom is a lesbian dating service. I got pissed enough to quit entirely when Kevin was killed but then got pulled back in after Nov 5 and besides watching the last two episodes live and spoiling myself for everything I have yet to actually catch up on all the episodes I missed, though I intend to watch (most, there's some I'm not gonna subject myself to) them.

i had caught up by the time season 8 started but missed an ep and found i didn't care to continue, rewatched after nov 5th and couldnt get through season 7. as a young teen i loved destiel but now i am 22 and don't anymore. i care much more about the generational trauma and sam as a character

I think it’d be interesting to see this quiz have an age breakdown of answers too. Someone who started watching/joined fandom in 2008 when they were 16 would have a vastly different experience to a fourteen year old who started at the peak of tumblr popularity at the turn of the dashcon era. Anyway Boy King or bust #wewasrobbed

I started watching while s8 was airing, caught up and watched seasons 9 & 10 live, then quit. Now I'm re-watching all the way through and I don't think the show knows what it's supposed to be about. I think the first 4 answers to that question above are what it WANTED to be about but I don't think it managed to coherently support any of them, and wound up devolving into a combination of the last 2 choices. Absolutely batshit show and it can be anything we want it to be.

I think I was one of many who was huge into the show and the fandom around 2012/2013 then came to my senses that the sexism/racism/homophobia and general worsening in quality wasn't going to end and stopped. My friends at I hadn't thought of it apart from a shudder of embarrassment in YEARS until 2020 and the destiel/final episode shitshow. I've rewatched the show since then and we talk about it all the time. As an adult I have new found love for the early seasons (season 3 my beloved). Although I can feel my connection and interest to the show waning again now…

Which season is your favorite?

A few seasons dominated here, with first place tying exactly (and I mean exactly, down to the number!) between season 4 and season 5. Second is season 2, followed distantly by season 8, then season 1. Nothing here is much of a surprise either: seasons 4 and 5 are generally beloved for both storytelling and character reasons. Season 2 is popular with people who love the show’s classic era, and season 8 is loved amongst many different niches of fandom. Season 1 is the first season and holds a special place in that regard. I do want to note that fifth place is held by season 12, which did surprise me!

Some of your comments on this topic include:

love love love first 5 seasons even if there should have been more powers sam. amelia should have been a hallucination, dean should have been called out for sucking in the later seasons. love and light <3

I tend to think of s1-5 and s6-onwards as sort of thematically different to varying degrees as later seasons go on. I would say earlier seasons have more of a family is hell vibe whereas later seasons seem to differ on the light that they paint the family in. Dean is worse in later seasons but the writing feels less self aware at times than in Kripke era

the s1-5 aesthetics are off the hook

Some of my family and friends Who seen the show or agree that the show really ended with season five. And the rest was pretty much just kicking a dead horse down the road. Some people won’t even acknowledge that it’s the same TV show after that point because that was the true narrative ending.

Picked season 13 as my favorite because of Sam's beard and I won't apologize for it.

I love the aesthetic so far (seasons 1-4) and I’m sure it’s gonna change after 5 but I really like that “midwestern gothic” vibe. also before the ending aired I saw this really long tumblr post that had theories about the last episode and one that I really liked was that they (Sam and Dean) start all over from the beginning on that bridge in ep 1 I think that would’ve been insane lol

Favorite character?

The vast majority of people chose within team free will here. The winner is Sam (which is congruent with the findings of my previous survey), followed by Cas, and then Dean. Of the supporting characters, Gabriel, Crowley, Jack, and Adam got the most votes. This is the second time I include this question in a survey and a stronger indication that Sam may indeed be fairly popular in fandom. What’s interesting however is that Cas and Dean have switched spots since the last time I asked this question, meaning the survey may have reached different demographics. In any case, Sam still wins out here.

Some of your comments on this topic include:

sam wincheser was purposefully designed by eric kripke to make me fucking insane x

i hate spn i’m only here for adam <3

I think Dean is a self-aware character but the writers drown him in toxic masculinity. He wants the “apple-pie” life and is built for it. Sam was a complex character, but then the writers took that away from him. He is not built for the “apple-pie” life. Sam is a mirror for John. If we have to be canon compliant, Dean and Cas definitely, eventually, reunite in Heaven. I think about this show too much and it gives me too many emotions during my day-to-day life.

I think too much focus was on the Winchesters by the end. after 15 seasons they were pretty average and the ensemble cast around them were either wasted or the writers didn't know what to do with them (Cas, Crowley, Jack etc). A couple of episodes focused on character building without Sam and Dean present would have been amazing. Cas and Garth? Jack and Claire? But no, they had to be anchored to the Winchesters and the Winchesters only, and it stifled the shows natural growth.

The show is about Sam! It's his Hero's Journey, it covers the most important part of his life and the most important relationship in his life (his brotherhood with Dean). The show begins continues and ends with Sam.

sam's psychic powers was the most compelling (sub)plot of the entire show

shoutout to dean winchester for cracking so many transmasc eggs and for being the object of so many queer peoples projection. thank you king and im sorry but you have eldest daughter syndrome (canonical), adhd (projected), autism (projected), anger issues (canonical), and tboy swag (projected). also hes bi

Sam isn’t cishet

I absolutely love my old man Dean <3 he’s fucking terrible and has. ALL. the issues but that’s ok because those issues make him break down and cry and he’s pretty when he cries so it’s ok

I’m watching the bloody mary episode as I take this survey and I just want to say the way the quality of this show drops so much is so disappointing. This show had so much potential and it makes me really sad to see these characters who will never get a full good story. Anyway just want to say I love castiel so much ❤️

Man do I love the gay angel ❤️❤️❤️

cas is my favorite character

I hate so much that Cas becoming human is so popular and looks like (?) the trajectory the show might’ve been taking. like he’s perfect the way he is :( sorry I’m emo over him today it’s just I started watching when I was like 12 and it’s really nice that I kinda like Grew into being gay with Cas. that sounds really embarrassing but 😭. One of the biggest things I dislike about the shows writing is the de powering of Cas (to be clear NOT that he became more gentle as the show went on I mean like. His actual powers)

jess was ruby all along and i'll die on this hill

I think I would like Castiel if he wasn’t played by Misha Collins.

I just wish Sam was able to finish his law degree, even if he also did hunting on the side

Sam

I just wish it was done better is all, it's so embarrassing to be a lesbian this ride or die for a fictional man played by Jared Padelecki

SAM’S CHARACTER WAS WASTED

I’d be nice if they gave some characters like Charlie and Kevin more screen time before killing them off. Also off topic, but sometimes I think about how much of Kevin’s life wasted away while he was playing the cello and doing schoolwork and that makes his death even more tragic.

Why did you start watching the show?

This was a write in question, so I incorporated your answers into the various categories and added a couple too. In first place here was “tumblr/online spaces told me it was good”, which incorporates recommendations online for the show or characters, as well as wanting to participate in the fandom in general. This demonstrates that a plurality of people started the show because of the influence of online spaces and various cultural osmosis online. A close second was “a friend recommended it to me”, which includes real life recommendations from friends and family removed from online influence. This means that a majority of people had the show recommended to them either online or from family or friends.

Third was “I saw it an random and gave it a try”, which is running across the show on tv or streaming with not much of an idea of what it was and deciding to just try it out. Fourth was “I heard about it on the news” which includes seeking it out deliberately after hearing it being promoted or seeing that a particular actor was in it. Fifth was “tumblr/online spaces told me it had great representation” which incorporated watching it deliberately because of elements of minority representation (in this case, gender and sexuality). Sixth was “tumblr/online spaces told me it was bad”, starting out of curiosity or wanting a so bad it’s good experience. And finally there was “nov 5 fallout” or explicitly stating that people began because of the reaction to 15x18 despair.

Some of your comments on this topic include:

I came to SPN for angst and I certainly got it.

started watching in order to understand more memes in the height of superwholock but i was still homophobic when i first started watching it and didn't think there was anything worth shipping in the show (in dw i had tenrose and in sherlock i shipped him with molly #cringe) so it was my least favorite but i still felt endeared to it and started rewatching the whole thing again when i heard it was ending at the beginning of 2020 and during that rewatch after several gay awakenings i was like. holy shit these guys are all gay

My brother originally begged me to stop watching the show because he didn't want his friends to think it was a "girly show". Jokes on him lmao

I rewatching it with my boyfriend rn he watched it in like 2009 with his grandma and didnt remember ANYTHING about cas its been fun watching it with someone who had an almost opposite viewing experience

I answered correctly (I think) but i wanted to elaborate because my cousin got me into the show because we were living together and she wanted to get me into it so she watched it with me. Then I stopped watching when she moved away in 2015 after having gotten a few episodes into s5, then I barely thought about the show again until Nov 5th 2020, which got me back into it full-force and made me rewatch/watch all 15 seasons over the course of a year. So, my answers are in light of that in case it helps your data collection. Also, because I wanted to state that I'd basically forgotten I'd even watched the show until Despair and that started me on a hyperfixation of immense proportions and I just think that's neat. I hope you're having a good day, and thank you for doing all these stats! I'm excited to see the results!

To clarify, I started watching because my friends were into destiel but by the time season four came I barely cared about Dean. Stayed for the Sam plotlines, left because it got too sad with no catharsis.

I did get into the show because of what I saw people shipping destiel, and I do ship destiel, but the reason I stayed watching the show was the relationship between the brothers(totally platonic not wincest)

Season ten was the first season that I genuinely did not enjoy a single thing about, probably never gonna pick it up again from there. Started watching because destiel sounded interesting, ended up thinking their chemistry was shit and stayed for the saucy little blood freak.

I went into it thinking it was a horror show. Watched a rerun at random, turned out to be Croatoan. 0% horror 150% codependent brothers. I was hooked from the get-go. Had no idea what was going on plot-wise but their dynamic and emotions and care for each other had me interested and kept me watching for the next 5 years until it ended. And even at the end, their bond is my favorite thing about it.

Why did you keep watching the show?

Another write in, so I’ll explain the reasoning behind the categories. The winner here was “I enjoyed it”, which incorporates any and all positive feelings about the show including liking the stories or the characters. This means that the majority of people continued watching because they liked some aspect of the actual show itself. Next was “having fun about it online”, which includes engaging in fandom and other online communities.

Third was “having fun watching it with my friends” which incorporates continuing because it was something to do/a bonding experience with loved ones. Fourth was “I thought it was going somewhere amazing”, which includes persevering for a specific endgame in mind or just to see how it ended. Fifth was “it was on so i just kept watching it” indicating watching without any large amount of emotional attachment and just as something to do to pass the time.

Some of your comments on this topic include:

when i first started watching i was like. 12 and very repressed (not to traumadump on the supernatural community survey 😅) and like actively closed my eyes so as the show went on i like... figured out I was gay while some writers started more deliberately coding cas. i’m thinking about s12 market research rn apologies. so he just really means a lot to me!! and i remember that when s12 was airing i would very viscerally defend the show like they were paying me. I mean i was adamant that it was a good show and not bad, whcih is something I don’t do at all now. oh yeah also i ragequit the show entirely in the middle of Lebanon. I was INSANELY upset that 1. cas wasnt in the episode (lol) and 2. john was back and they made no attempt to age JDM down (i was like. damn the quality of this shit sucks). I remember I was like viscerally upset after the empty deal episode cuz i was like the ONLY reason they would do this is as a destiel chekhov’s gun, but then I was like but they have no intention of doing earnest destiel. thinking they do is giving them too much credit i’m delusional. and it made me so upset during Lebanon that i stopped watching before Cas showed up 😭 and then i didn’t come back until Nov 5

the show is so terrible and yet i’m stuck with it please get me out of here

I’ll never forgive the show for the way they handled The Gadreel Incident or Demon Dean. Also, deeply embarrassing factoid but watching Supernatural as a teen genuinely helped me deconstruct my evangelical faith and get out of that hell hole and now I’m super gay. I love Supernatural

having grown up in a very unhealthy environment similar to the winchester brothers, the way that the brothers are both horrible for each other yet still the best (only?) available option for happiness is really compelling. plots started falling apart after dean went to hell, but i still enjoyed the show until season 12. i watched spn with my older sister who raised me and the moments of brotherly love broken up by these intense fights, sam pushing dean for independence (and dean acquiescing, at least in the early seasons), the way they take care of each other because literally no other human has been through the same things they have... it's all really dear to my heart.

I loved it until I didnt and it was gradual falling out so I didn’t notice til to late

i genuinely... enjoy the show. supernatural things are my special interest and this show does better than those shitty ghost shows on the travel channel.

I saw myself in some of the characters and the unusual relationship between the brothers got me invested. it wasn't bland and then it became bland.

i kept watching for multiple reasons really; fun horror, family dynamics and impactful storytelling. to be honest it's kinda hard to answer these types of questions though since it's such a long series and one answer applies to one season but not another, you know? so some answers here might not be applicable to all 15 seasons

I used to like this show but after like s8 I just could not do it anymore. Where do you go when the literal apocalypse was in s4? How do you escalate believably? You don't. I literally didn't care about any of the stakes after that and it got stupid and boring.

Honestly I kept on watching after season 12 because of Misha. His acting choices and interpretations were always amazing, from casifer to the empty. Jensen jacting joices kept me here too

Did you go into the show with any particular expectations?

Pretty straightforward question with a pretty evenly split answer! The majority of people did not go in with particular expectations, but just barely. This indicates that there is a pretty even split between people who went in expecting something based on what they had been told of the show and those that went in without them.

Some of your comments about this topic include:

I was going to say yes to the "did you go into it with expectations" because for some reason I expected it to be set in the UK after hearing about it from my aunt but that wasn't an option

Didn't know where else to put this: Few expectations for what the show would be like, had no idea early seasons had such a heavy Sam focus & was deeply disappointed when it went away (& never came back).

What were your expectations?

The nature of the expectations are laid out here. The plurality of people expected “lots of fun horror stuff”, indicating that the most visible element of the show is the genre. This may also mean that it is the element of the show that is most appealing to viewers, as they went in expecting a horror genre show. Second is “good in a bad way”, which means that they had experienced negative feedback from the show and wanted to experience something that is probably not the best quality.

Third is ship related, indicating that about a fifth of respondents came into the show expecting great content for shipping purposes/fandom involvement. Fourth is the family aspect of the show, indicating that this element didn’t seem to be the primary expectation for most. Finally, there’s the quality of storytelling. This seems to be the element that people expected the least going into it.

Some of your comments on this topic include:

I don’t think there should be anymore official Supernatural shows or films. Also I kept watching because I thought it would be more like The X Files with lots of really strong MOTW episodes and it…was not. But there’s still something really fun about watching it and it really hits sometimes, which kind of makes the misses a little forgiveable? Some of them at least. Also, there are some…factions of the fandom that clearly care more about being right than being respectful and having fun, which makes the fandom even more toxic and hard to stand.

i swear there's a watched-supernatural-for-destiel-to-sam-stan pipeline. i swear it's a thing. also i marked myself down as having expectations for destiel, which isn't necessarily entirely true -- i didn't think it would actually be canon and i sure as hell did not go into supernatural expecting good representation, i just heard about a compelling ship and was like "oh sure, i'll watch the show for that". and i didn't start for AGES because i knew it was a """horror""" show and i was a pussy with a low scare tolerance lmfao

i'm trying to remember exactly what my expectations were when i went in, which was years ago. i know that i was disappointed by the horror aspects - i think spn utterly fails as a horror show except when they accidentally write compelling abuse narratives which they don't intend (primarily with dean as the abuser. i do consider john's abuse to be intentional on the part of the writers, however i also think that john's abuse is only compelling because they barely touch it. if they'd shown any more of it than they did it would have popped like a balloon (see: lebanon). however, they make an incredibly compelling, complex, and multifaceted story about domestic abuse with dean as the abuser by never acknowledging that dean does anything wrong, thus allowing him to commit horrific acts without being narratively punished, and while retaining a level of authorial sympathy that allows his motivations and psyche to be explored). but i didn't really go in expecting horror except insofar as that was how the show sold itself within the text. like spn very much does pretend to be a horror show for at least the first three seasons. i did go in expecting shipping stuff because i saw a lot of destiel, but i actually wasn't very compelled by it. like i enjoyed destiel but i didn't really buy it in the text until season six, and even then mostly on cas' end. like i read dean as gay bc his relationships with women were SO disingenuous, but not necessarily as particularly specifically interested in cas. and even now i don't really read dean as in love with cas until s10/11. i did NOT go in expecting "representation" because i had no idea what that meant at the time.

To clarify - I had no expectations about "representation." I knew the show hated gays and even more hated women and poc. I *did* expect Destiel content though, as in stuff that made me insane, and it did make me insane. Also, I put "depth of characters" because there was no solo "Cas" option. I think the only characters with canon depth are Sam and Cas, so it's not like spn is *overall* good at writing characters.

Castiel also for the q above- my expectations were: Castiel. I mean kind of Destiel, but honestly mostly Castiel. I heard about him and yes I did find him highly intriguing/compelling

Like, the expectation I had going in was Buffy but dudes, and I think it was met, especially with all the guest spots from actors who were on Buffy and Angel

To explain my thoughts about expectations about the show, I didn't actually think the show itself was ship heavy, but the fandom was ship heavy, which I liked. I never expected the show to make any ships canon

Coming in, I expected a lot of Destiel -- but in a queerbaiting context. That was one of my reasons for AVOIDING the show for years. Watching it, I can definitely see where the Destiel fans are reading the ship *potential* from -- and as a fandom vet, I'm good with that -- but I don't see it as particularly strong or as queerbaiting (or as canon until 15x18, which made it canon-unrequited). Also, I started with a guide to skipping around and watching the "important" parts, and mid-way through S2 that way went back and watched everything I had skipped. After that, I watched in order but didn't avoid spoilers and jumped into the fandom quickly. I tend to prefer the characterization of later seasons but the plots (both arcs and MOTW) of earlier seasons.

just that i never expected supernatural to have great representation or lots of queerbaiting or content that inspires shipping! i feel like the option i chose for that question doesn't reflect very well how i approached this lol but the important thing (and why i picked it) is that i WAS deluded about what i was signing up for. i was led on lmao and it was surprising, when i started watching the show and realized it's got a hold on me but not at all for destiel reasons. but i never expected it to be the destiel show. (well i did expect queerbaiting which imo i ALMOST never got.) so yeahh i expected the best part of the show, the only enjoyable part to be the dean and cas relationship, and then found so many other things the majority of people on tumblr never mentioned. and found that i don't care about dean and cas </3 destiel really is such a big ship, they fucking fooled me - in my defense this has never happened to me before and i think it's almost completely unique, the discrepancy between canon and the content + interpretations of slash fandom. this amount of discrepancy is destiel-specific. i had no reason to believe so many people could be wrong lmao

Did it meet your expectations?

In the spectrum of meeting expectations, most people were around the middle here. Most people agreed that the show kind of met their expectations, indicating that they did see at least some of what they were coming in for. 30% of respondents had their expectations met completely or almost completely, while 15% saw that the show did not meet their expectations in the least.

Some of your comments on this topic include:

I wish I'd never gotten into it. Major disappointment and a waste of time.

Sam should have died 💅

Supernatural had such brilliant ideas and plot points they consistently overlooked to drive a simpler narrative that was more able to fill the white man hero complex. It wounds me deeply.

fuck buckleming but i owe them my life sometimes ya know?

castiel outstayed his welcome by about 10 seasons

I stopped watching around season 10 because I was tired of the queerbait. I came back when I heard about 15x18 and I haven’t been the same since.

the worst best show to ever have aired

I'll never forgive the show for how it erased Castiel's personhood and how it never allowed Dean to grow and change for longer than an episode. And I'll never forgive the fandom for how they pushed me out when I stopped worshipping Dean Winchester.

It was seasin 9 when it became so tiresome so repetitive how they recicle all the same plitlines and characters learn all the same previousy learned lessons. There is this post about how spn glances at super interesting even and pardon my language feral thungs and then completely ruins it. At the same time Dearh in s5. Right?

I must emphasize the fact that I started watching it ironically and accidentally became Obsessed because there's literally So Much to think about. I love parsing the contradictions and reverse engineering the narrative, finding every perspective and analyzing the text through that lense. depending on what angle you're looking at it with, supernatural changes and I love and hate that about it. additionally, it's so unintentionally funny. giving Sam the SAME SHIRTS 10 YEARS LATER will never not be funny and iconic.

This show has opened my eyes to many things. Many good, many bad. Especially bad tho. This show has shown me how nasty some people can be (homophobic Destiel + literally destroying everything good about the show afterward, probably out of spite). I don't have a favorite season. I have plenty of favorite episodes tho. I don't remember the earlier seasons enough; its been years since I've seen them. But plot wise those were the best. Also you really need to include Midam in your options; after 15x8 and Jake Abel shipping them they've gotten somewhat popular :/

It was the best before it was about apocalipse. If it was just about Sam and Dean's personal journey in what it means to be an angry toxic man while also seeing yourself as the hero, and trying their best to help people despite how it's destroying them, it would be worlds better. Also Castiel should have been like, their friend who has to keep an eye on them from heaven because they get into a few big things too many. I think that's the ideal.

If you have any questions about any details of these parts specifically let me know.

Part 2

#spn #supernatural #spn survey #sam winchester #dean winchester #castiel #speaks

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feuervogel · 2 years ago

Text

I posted 1,843 times in 2022

That's 378 more posts than 2021!

13 posts created (1%)

1,830 posts reblogged (99%)

Blogs I reblogged the most:

@sophiamcdougall

@edgeofpanic

@ironedorchid

@dirtyzucchini

@bossymarmalade

I tagged 1,824 of my posts in 2022

Only 1% of my posts had no tags

#cats - 98 posts

#lol - 72 posts

#art by op - 65 posts

#tumblr - 54 posts

#tik toks - 53 posts

#art - 52 posts

#memes - 46 posts

#humor - 33 posts

#uk politics - 28 posts

#hellsite (affectionate) - 28 posts

Longest Tag: 127 characters

#especially since my sister had a completely different relationship with her and wouldn't understand if i talked to her about it

My Top Posts in 2022:

Recent media viewing

I decided to open up Netflix the other day and watch the Sandman adaptation. It's as good as everyone has been saying it is! And episode 5 has some gross bits that you'll see coming if you're paying attention (also, the nice black lady and her dog don't die, if you're worried about that). The Corinthian is EVEN CREEPIER in live action.

I spent a lot of time thinking "God, that actor looks and sounds familiar" whenever the Corinthian was on screen, but I looked him up and he wasn't in anything else I've seen, so I guess he's just got That Kind Of Face (or at least lower half of it, since he's got dark glasses on 95% of the time.)

While I was on Netflix, they showed me recommendations, as algorithms do, and I browsed the anime selection to see if there was anything to add to my (extremely long) watchlist.

I decided to watch Tekken: Bloodline, because deep in my heart of hearts, I love 2D fighting games. Not at all because I've been a JinHwo shipper since the early 2000s, nope. Anyway, it's a Netflix original, originally voiced in English. The voice acting ranges from fine (Jin, Hwoarang, Nina, Paul) to cringe (Jun, Xiaoyu) to comical (Heihachi), and for some completely unknown reason, Heihachi's assistant uses weeb-Japanese and says "hai" when she could say "yes, sir." (Like, this is the ONLY Japanese in the show. I'm not counting uses of sensei, because that's been borrowed into English as a martial arts term, or the time Paul says "Mishima Zaibatsu," because that's been in the US versions of the game since forever.)

Is it any good? It's not bad... It's basically the plot of Tekken 3, with references to 1&2, with Jin finding out about his family and Heihachi being a total asshole (I mean, duh). The character designs are weird, like their faces are too small for their necks and chins are too pointy, and somehow Jin looks like Heero Yuy in profile. I laughed a couple times (Paul (or maybe Nina): You two are friends? Jin & Hwoarang (unison): NO!) and may be on the way to shipping Jin/Hwo/Xiaoyu because they're ADORABLE.

When I got my new computer for Xmas, it came with a free 3-month trial of Apple TV. I didn't do anything about it until they sent me an email that it would go away if I didn't use it, then I signed up. There's actually a good bit of good stuff on there, so I'm keeping it for 4.99 a month.

Severance: suuuuper creepy SF mystery/thriller? where people can sign up to get implants that sever their work lives from their home lives so they can work on something so secret, even their work-selves don't know what it is. Season 1 ends with a massive cliffhanger that was extremely brave, because S2 hadn't been confirmed yet. (It is now.) It stars the guy from Parks & Rec and guest stars Christopher Walken.

The Essex Serpent: based on a book, apparently. Tom Hiddleston plays a vicar who lives out in the wilds in the 1880s or so; Claire Danes is a recently widowed paleontologist. Hiddles is utterly charming, as always; Danes is a bit flat, as always (I've always liked her, but she has about 2 expressions: confused and sad). There's a doctor who wants to date her, and her BFF/maid ALSO wants to date her, but she's only got eyes for the vicar (who's married, of course). Anyway, she hears rumors of a sea monster in the river and goes to investigate it, which is where she meets the vicar and so on. You can tell it's going to be a romance, but that part is somehow not compelling.

For All Mankind: space race AU where the Soviet Union gets to the moon first and NASA has to catch up. A lot of the real-world timeline is changed in ways that are good (space shuttles! moon base!) and bad (USSR doesn't collapse). In season 3, there is an extremely honest depiction of Gay Life in the 90s and of the within-group politics of assimilation or not. I lived through it (before I knew I was queer, or admitted it anyway), and it still punched me in the gut. We've made so much progress in the last 30 years that it's easy to forget just how terrible it was back then and that Don't Ask Don't Tell was the progressive compromise. It made me think about all the puriteens here on tunglr dot com and the stupid discourse about ~flawed media~ and ~problematique~ stuff. They should watch it and maybe fucking learn some history.

The end of season 3 is dfjhadkjghk;djkhgojwhjdfxhvjh basically and season 4 can't come soon enough.

5 notes - Posted August 20, 2022

G witch ep 6

That was extremely fucked up.

They're speed-running all the super fucked-up bits from UC and 00. Good job.

9 notes - Posted November 6, 2022

I have a very specific request, and I'm sure someone here can point me in the direction of acquiring this. (These, I guess; there are two specific fannish things I've wanted for a while.)

The litany against fear, in its entirety, in calligraphy or similar. Not twee. (I'm not actually into Dune, but having basically cognitive behavioral therapy on my wall might help me with my stupid anxiety.)

The Discworld DEATH bit "to be the place where the falling angel meets the rising ape", with or without the rest of the speech. (It's a long speech and would make the piece too busy.) Not twee. Potentially illustrated with silhouettes in the background behind the text.

I have no artistic ability nor any skill at graphic design, and I lack the patience for calligraphy. Thinking about embroidery or cross-stitch makes my fingers hurt. (My mom was an avid cross-stitcher and taught me when I was a kid. I could never hold the needle properly.)

Type of item: poster up to A2 size

Price: up to around 20 € each

13 notes - Posted September 5, 2022

I can't be the only person who wants directors or whoever makes these decisions let Oscar Isaac have his gorgeous salt and pepper hair. A grown-ass man, silver at the temples, charming smile. Please?

Also I saw a comment about Dune that said they "aged him up" to play Duke Leto, and it took everything I had in me not to comment "oh, you mean they didn't make him dye his hair?"

32 notes - Posted January 23, 2022

My #1 post of 2022

Been playing Disco Elysium and I tried on some new pants.

[ID: screenshot from the video game Disco Elysium

YOU - I like regular, normal things.

VOLITION - Mhm, I know you do. These interisolary pants are like wearing a perfect *compromise* in your nether regions. No one will call the Moralintern on you like this, that's for sure.

You're a little more moralist now, buddy. A little more *normal*. Even if you didn't want to be.

COMPOSURE [Medium: Success] - Makes sense. This is what wearing boring office trousers does to you.

end ID]

39 notes - Posted November 25, 2022

Get your Tumblr 2022 Year in Review →

#tumblr2022 #year in review #my 2022 tumblr year in review #your tumblr year in review #lol

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firelxdykatara · 4 years ago

Note

I would actually be really genuinely interested to read your defence of Makorra. I’ve never really been partial to any of the TLOK ships but I know that one gets a lot of hate (even though I don’t see anything wrong with people shipping it) and I’m just curious to see your take.

I've been sitting on this a bit, because it's been a while since I actually sat down and thought about what it is I love so much about Makorra--the fire/water and slap-slap-kiss/BST energy aside--and it reminded me that I actually rewatched the first three episodes of LoK not that long ago (which is when I had my revelation about Equalist Asami, and how I think that the Equalist Mako and Korra fight in episode three was originally meant to be Asami's true introduction to the show, to be revealed when it became clear she and her father were Equalists), because of this meta by @devildogdemon on episode three that reminded me just how much those early episodes made me love Makorra well before the love triangle crashed onto the scene and everything went tits up.

I've spoken before about how what I really loved about Makorra was the potential:

I personally loved Makorra, but I loved it for what it could have been, not what it wound it actually being in the show–but that’s because the love triangle was sloppy as hell and poorly handled, and it took the place of actual bonding for the krew and development of their individual friendships.

This still holds true, and I think the foundations were all very well laid out in the meta that I linked above.

When Mako and Korra had time alone together, and were in a stressful situation, they worked incredibly well together, despite the way their personalities--Mako a bit staid and stoic, used to shoving down his emotions so that he could be the parent his little brother needed and, as a result, never learning how to process how he felt in a healthy manner, while Korra spent her whole life among adults and as a result never really learned how to just be a kid, or how to relate to others her own age, so she is brash and reckless and does what she thinks is necessary because she's never been around people who had to ask permission before they just Did Things and hey, she's the avatar, shouldn't she be the one everyone is looking to for leadership???--tended to clash, especially early on.

They slid almost effortlessly into the Battle Couple trope when it came time to fight--to try and get Bolin back, and to protect one another--and those scenes in Book 1 feel a lot like Zuko and Katara training together at the end of book 3, covering each other's blind spots and accomodating for each other's weaknesses. This is also, incidentally, the episode where Korra winds up wearing Mako's scarf--the one memento he has from his parents, who were killed when he was a child. Sound familiar?

-insert image of katara's necklace around zuko's wrist here-

And before anyone gets on me about the parallels, I'm not saying that Makorra is the same as Zutara (although if you told me that Bryke intended it to be, I'd believe it--either because they thought they were finally giving the shippers what they wanted or, more likely, they wanted to show why they believed zk would never work), but the parallels do exist, and it's largely because Mako occupies the same position within the krew that Katara does within the gaang. They also have the BST and the banter more than any other relationship in the krew, so of course they're going to wind up paralleled to the relationship in the gaang that had the most narrative tension. They are still, at the end of the day, very different relationships, because Mako and Korra are very different people than Zuko and Katara.

But I'm just saying, the symbolism of one half of the pair wearing the other's only physical link to their dead parents........it's there. I didn't make this up.

They also, again like zutara, have this moment of emotional closeness and vulnerability early in the book--in episode 3, where Mako reveals to Korra what happened to his parents and why he had history with the triads, which casts some light on why he acted the way he did in the very first episode (I've seen people getting on Mako's ass about how 'mean' he was to Korra, but like, a) he was very calm about it, and b) how else would you expect someone who lived hand to mouth on the street for an entire decade to react to someone claiming they had 'nothing' in the same breath as admitting that they'd never had to want for anything in their entire life?), and allows them to become closer emotionally--as friends and potentially more, given the explicitly romantic framing of the interaction and several others throughout the episode.

Ultimately, what initially drew me in to Makorra was that slap-slap-kiss/Belligerent Sexual Tension they had in the beginning of book 1, but what really makes me think of what they could have been is the way their relationship developed in episode 3 and the groundwork that was laid for a slow-burn there, rather than Korra deciding she was in love with him just in time for Asami to crash into the scene and nab him first.

(Incidentally, had Asami been an Equalist like she was originally supposed to, this could all have been part of a larger plot and Korra could have slowly come to realize what Mako meant to her while examining the things she felt when she saw him with Asami--meanwhile, all of their relationships could have been given room to breathe and grow, especially if Bolin's puppy crush on Korra were dropped, and Mako and Korra clashing over Korra's suspicions of Asami wouldn't have been quite so ugly if both of them were proven just a little bit right. And then allow for that betrayal to shake the foundations of the krew before Asami works her way back into their good graces, and Mako and Korra don't get together until they've navigated the fallout from that and discovered how much they really mean to each other.)

Uh... yeah, I rambled for days, hopefully I answered your question adequately! I just. I really love Mako, and I really love what he and Korra could have been to each other, and I really love who Korra could have become if the show let her actually grow organically instead of giving her Character Development Through Brutal Torture, and all of that has I guess kind of sunk into a ball of how the show would look if Makorra were done better to me lol.

#mako #makorra #atla #lok #equalist asami #makorra meta #mudbend #asked

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thoughts-on-bangtan · 4 years ago

Note

I’m guessing all Vmins were right Sweet night is about the past. I guess it’s why Tae give it for the movie instead of for his mixtape. I’m guessing JM gave him the ok to do so and why he’s been silent about it cause it’s over between them. TK are making it too obvious. jk treating JM like they aren’t friends suddenly. jk in purple/green all the time. v not shutting up about jk suddenly. JM is not handling it well. I guess it’s why v said he likes JM the most (guess as friend) cause he feels bad

Admin 1: “Sure, go and release a song easily identified as being about us and your hope of me giving you a second chance with a hopeful ending seeing as we aren’t together anymore, sounds like a nice idea to me. Go, Taehyungie, do it. Then also let me hold your hand on national TV and show it to the cameras happily, smile sweetly at you while we stand next to the president, talk about our song and memories and how much they mean to me, perform this song that's essentially a love letter to our bond in a live-streamed concert for almost 800k people, and when you tell me you like me the most, I’ll say I like you a lot as well. Because we’re over and not even friends anymore.” Sounds like some sound logic to me, and I mean that in the most sarcastic way possible to humans.

Honestly, either I’ve just been around too long and all these asks are starting to sound the same and impossibly uncreative, or they are just getting more farfetched and bizarre. If you want a proper answer, I told you, bring something to the table that hasn’t been talked to dust yet, or leave it be.

To quote Tae, the man who knows best what he feels: 95z is love.

Until he (and Jimin) changes his mind, this is the answer I have for any and all Xkooker ask, as well as any other ship involving Tae or Jimin.

Also yes, I did see the hate against Jimin that exploded yesterday, we even have an ask about it in our inbox, and honestly these types of questions, anon? Yeah, you're not helping, in fact, you are part of the problem, just saying.

Admin 2: Man, man, man!

We didn't really want to answer these types of questions anymore, but this ask takes the trophy when it comes to delulu/nonsensical questions, so I decided to answer it after all. Because it’s hot and I need a distraction.

Also, this question basically confirms most of our suspicions we’ve had so far. Let me explain.

Folks, who is behind these kinds of stories which are being presented and preached as truth on various sns?

I don't believe this is any single persons invention (in this case, that anon came up with this idea “without help”), if anything it’s the result of delulu, and often times toxic, scenarios and stories created by a group of people intended to further a narrative and actively disrupt the “peace” within ARMY (or at least that’s what it feels like since all these things do is ignite hate and toxicity). Where is the origin of it all? Ship centric YouTube channels.

It is very evident that these "imaginative creators/shippers" behind those videos have no consideration of the consequences and harm their content does because, in my opinion, the more controversial and clickbait-y, the better. You know why? More views means more money, which is the goal of it all. We’ve spoken about this before, I believe, how these videos on “ship evidence” and “ship drama” for Xkookers are the most beloved topics of these videos and thus make up one of the easiest means of generating income, in some cases even something upward of $80k a year depending on the channels CPM, sub and view count.

The average person has to work hard all year round to make this amount of money, if they even have a job that brings in that much. So, it is not surprising that these content creators go very far in their fantasies to support their claims and keep their viewers/costumers engaged and coming back.

I wouldn't be surprised if the creators (or rather the whole lot of them) of both Xkook camps are basically the same people, because their ideas, conclusions and explanations all sound the same and follow the same nonsensical patters. Which is why we’ve already told you many times that the best thing you can do is stay away from this type of content altogether.

So! Let's analyze this ask a little more:

"…Vmins were right Sweet Night is about the past. I guess it’s why Tae give it for the movie instead of for his mixtape."

Ok, let's say Tae wrote "Sweet Night" for Jimin, but in the meantime he has changed his feelings (that's how I understand the question) so he gave the song to the Itaewon Class OST instead of putting it on his mixtape. I wanted to note that Taehyung's mixtape isn't finished yet and we will probably wait many more months for it.

It seems to me that Taehyung really wanted to show his feelings to the world, so he saw an opportunity with the OST, and therefore a quicker release for SN, and took it. The fact is that SN is about the past, but there is also hope for the future, hope for the fulfillment of wishes, which likely did come true judging by how Tae said he wrote SN during tour abroad (so sometimes summer/early autumn 2019 perhaps) and we saw vmin holding hands at the airport on Tae’s birthday in 2019 when they thought no one would see, just three months before SN was released (and likely long schedules for said release since these types of things don’t just happen overnight) and many, many other such things.

“I suspect that JM gave him his consent and why he kept silent about it because it was over between them, TK makes it too obvious. "

And I suspect that Jimin was very touched by Sweet Night and ultimately wrote Friends in which him and Tae sing: “Many promises and memories / and more to come / Someday, when these cheers die down, stay hey / You are my soulmate”

The fact is that BTS didn't say much about SN, but it was the same with many of their other SC releases as well, so it wasn’t unusual, especially since SN came out while they were promoting MOTS7. Also, in my opinion, the content of this song is too personal to be able to describe/discuss the song in detail beyond the bit that was mentioned during Tae’s vlive with Namjoon. During a Japanese interview, the members basically confirmed/pointed out how romantic Tae is and when SN came up, Namjoon “coincidentally” turned around toward Jimin who has a similar facial expression of pressed lips as he did during Let’s BTS.

"JK treats JM as if they suddenly weren't friends"

And here I have caught you, dear anon. I think you're not even looking at the original BH content, but that instead you are basing your conclusions and opinions on manipulative YT ship videos instead because if you would’ve watched the original content like RUN, the recent SOWOOZOO concerts, and interviews, you wouldn’t arrive anywhere near such thoughts and conclusions.

Jimin and JK are still close, also Jimin calls JK his little brother (dongsaeng) and JK describes Jimin (or associates these words with him) as charm and cute. Does there seem to be any kind of conflict between Jimin and Jungkook? Certainly not, no.

„JK always in purple / green. v not shutting up about jk suddenly."

You mean their microphone colors? I wanted to point out how Tae wore a yellow shirt during the concert, which is the same color as the chick emoji ARMY associates with Jimin as well as his mic color. LOL.

As far as I know, when Tae has something to say, he will say it, and if he is praising JKs songs, and especially You Eyes Tell which we know is a song Tae liked a lot, that is a good thing. It simply means Tae appreciates the song JK created, appreciates and values his talents and hard work. If the entire band praises Namjoon and his lyrics/contributions on their songs, does that automatically also mean all six are “not shutting up about him” and therefore must be in love and in a relationship with him, or it’s an indicator of it? If anything, it’s merely an indicator that Tae is an honest person and JK did a good job on those songs. Easy as that.

That's my favorite part of the question: "JM doesn't handle it that well. I think that's why I said he likes JM best (as a friend, I guess) because he feels bad."

Personally, I consider myself a person with a great imagination, but I wouldn't really come up with a scenario like that.

How cruel of a person do you think Tae is? Imagine they aren’t together anymore or close anymore, or whatever else you tried to insinuate anon, and then Tae would go on national TV and do this whole thing of asking for the card in his letter to Jimin to be blurred and then said “Jimin-ah I like you the most”? To do something as hurtful as that you either have to be a sadist or an asshole and I’d like to believe even you, anon, don’t think in such a way about Tae, of all people.

Perhaps that’s something dumb teenagers or kids would do, but not adult men in their mid-twenties who see each other every single day, are part of the same team and have to work with each other. This is real life, not a soap opera. If these types of dramas really would be happening within BTS, they would’ve stopped existing as a band a long time ago because no one would be able to live with such actions and people for a prolonged amount of time. BTS are grown men, best friends, even found family, and not actors on a badly written TV show for our entertainment where they act out increasingly stupid relationship drama in which JK somehow ended up being the toy going from hand to hand like he’s not even an actual person anymore.

In summary, this question was written by a child, teenager, or an emotionally immature person naïve enough to buy into outlandish ship narratives.

Anon, hear what the members had to say during FESTA 2021. Make your own conclusions and stop watching and believing the nonsense on YouTube. As Tae said: Get out of your imagination. It’s not good in there.

#answered ask #vmin

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hopefullystillatheatrestudent · 4 years ago

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okay so i’ve been going crazy these past few days. all about cockles/jensmish and obsessively watching their panels or reading the transcripts BECAUSE. THEY ARE LOUD. LIKE. i saw some fancams on twt and i thought people were just exaggerating but noooooooooo!!!???? so, getting to the point. you said that how do we know that jensen is performing masculinity? because jared isn’t and THAT IS A BIG BRAIN MOMENT. ON POINT. I CANNOT STRESS THIS ENOUGH. a particular moment from gag reel that jumps out (which you’ve talked about) when jensen goes ‘cas, you are my baby daddy’ and misha goes, ‘i know i love you too’ and jensen goes, ‘i didn’t say i love you’ and misha goes, ‘i know you wanted to’ and jensen says, ‘i love you’ WHAT THE FUCK! that was NOT a joke. yes, people took it as a joke and had a good laugh BUT I HAVE WATCHED IT TOO MANY TIMES AND IT LIVES IN MY MIND RENT FREE BECAUSE IT WAS NOT A PERFORMANCE. THAT WAS JENSEN. THAT WAS MISHA. jensen has a had trouble with the pda and being all touch feely (the breakup theory) and he gradually grew into it, accepted it and misha was right there all along, never pushed it. it was like a deancas au but tbh, 99% of destiel is because of cockles and we all know it. i just. jensen has latched onto dean as an emotional support because he tunes with it. understands it. projects on to it. yeah, i just had to say it and get it off my chest. (and what about those poetry pages on instagram? alma? what is your opinion?) btw, you have a lovely blog and your analysis are right on target.

so there is a LOT i’m going to address here(how dare you bring up [gunshot] i HAVE to talk about it now) so again!!!! under a cut it goes but i hope you appreciate my rambles anon it seems like you do :,)

1. jared vs. jensen and performing masculinity. hell yeah man. jared and jensen are both just ‘guys from texas’ but they are still so vastly different. today i actually had a revelation that i’m pretty sure has to do with me being bi. and it’s that i have a group of straight friends(that i love dearly but they care too much about hockey and pitbull imo could not be me) and i have a group of queer friends(who are also batshit[affectionate]). and it’s like whichever group i hang out with a different side of me emerges? they’re both me, it’s just that certain aspects of who i am as a person only surface depending on who i am around. however, i will say i feel like i watch what i say around my straight friends more. i see that very clearly in jensen as well. around jared during panels and on set, he’s definitely putting on an air of machismo and engages in typical guy talk. i do think an element of it is performative, because he wants validation from jared that they’re still just two dudes from texas taking on the world together despite his sexual identity. does that make any sense??? i hope so. but when he’s with misha he is an entirely different person and his sense of humour becomes wildly different. the machismo fades away, he’s way less caught up in what people think about him, lets his guard down, etc. to go back to my original point which is how j2 are different in that regard....jared does not do this. he is a constant. he does not flip a switch between ‘performing masculinity’ and ‘not’ because he isn’t performing any part of who he is. he just IS. so yeah these two are similar in many regards but there’s somewhat of a dissonance between them when it comes to how they perform masculinity because one of them is putting on a show and the other is merely being.

2. that crypt scene blooper(here just in case you need to see it again. do it. as a treat.) when i tell you i have easily seen this over thirty times??? since it first came out??? i mean it. it is such an overlooked(r*mantic) moment and it means so much more than people think it does. i’ve talked about the context behind it, and i think that’s why this blooper was so meaningful, so i’ll mention it again. jensen and misha had a LOT of trouble with this scene. the reason is that jensen couldn’t wrap his head around why dean would be saying these things, if i remember correctly, and both of them sat down and scoured over how they should play it for a while before filming(teamwork ;) teammates *ahem*). [to be honest we all know why jensen had a hard time with that scene and it is because it is blatantly romantic. rip to him but i would simply give in to it at that point but oh well] so anyway, their heads were scattered going into shooting, which is NEVER a good headspace to be in for a scene, ESPECIALLY not a pivotal one. but they had each other to help them through said weird energy on set that couldn’t possibly have invoked the best feelings, especially considering jensen STILL doesn’t think he played that correctly(but he praised misha on his performance :,) ). and with that context every single part of that video hits haRD

-’stop pulling my face towards your crotch’ i think this is objectively hilarious because it really really looks like jensen is pulling HIMSELF towards misha’s crotch. again, you’re fooling no one, jensen. misha’s wheezing laugh and the way he wraps himself around jensen is also,,,sweet??? like i don’t know how else to describe how i see it but this moment really reads as jensen, in his weird ‘constructing elaborate rituals’ way is asking for security through a physical touch from misha and he happily obliges and gives jensen what he needs. because i mean...watch it again. jensen ‘fights back’, but not really at all, actually. pretty wimpy counterattack. he literally lets himself be smothered by misha, and i would literally describe what they end up doing as cuddling.

-’i need you, cas. you’re my baby daddy’ i love having an actor’s perspective on things bc i think i can explain what’s going on here. jensen just delivered what was(in his own mind) a rotten take of the lines he’s most scared of delivering. so the scene was already messed up. therefore; ensuing fuckery is warranted to help him feel better. but there’s also for sure more than meets the eye for what he says here because of misha’s reaction after??? like he seemed genuinely touched. first of all, he’s saying ‘you’re my baby daddy’ as half-jensen, but not necessarily dean either(because he didn’t say the previous lines as true to his character...you get it), to misha, not cas. i think i’ve made this point before, but every single innuendo in the gag reels is to misha specifically, never once cas. therefore; logical conclusion: ‘you’re my baby daddy’ was for misha and it meant something deeper than we think because of what follows it

-this part. jensen’s giddy ass smile after he sees misha crack and then misha says ‘yeah, i know’ (can i just say his voice when he says this is so intimate???? like am i intruding guys??? sorry i’ll let myself out) also he is smiling SO BIG

- ‘i know’ ‘why are you laughing?’ ‘no i know i love you too’ this analysis is already so long but i still want to get into what THAT whole exchange means. ‘why are you laughing?’ to me sounds like jensen’s pretending to be affronted by misha laughing at something that is serious. and it’s serious because he quite literally meant ‘i love you’. he did. misha knows it. misha’s really REALLY good at cutting the bs and just getting to what people are actually trying to say. he has an innate sharpness to his sense of humour. so yes, misha is being 100% accurate when he says ‘i know, but you wanted to say it.’ misha isn’t lying here. jensen did want and mean to say ‘i love you’. and then he actually does say it(in a jokey way but not really).

- so yeah. it is actually so romantic??? like in a weird way jensen was professing his love for misha here?????? and that’s why this clip will NEVER. ever. get old.

3. jensen having trouble with pda and projecting onto dean: we can all call ourselves dean coded cas girls but NO one deserves that title more than jensen ackles himself. he is dean winchester but marginally less repressed because he actually did admit he was in love with his best friend and let himself be happy, and pretty early on too. one year and two months as opposed to twelve years. so. happy deancas au is correct. and yes about the pda thing: one day i want to write my own post about both of their body language when it comes to each other, but all i can tell is jensen, even in the early days, couldn’t help himself from flirting with misha, but if misha ever crossed a line, jensen would not be happy. clearly he’s come around, however. what i find sweet is that misha always follows jensen’s lead when it comes to how much affection they’re allowed to show each other onstage. it touches my soul

4. destiel is cockles fault. yeah. and the thing is everyone knows it, too. even non-cockles shippers will explain early destiel as entirely dependant on jensen and misha’s wild chemistry. and that chemistry is easily explained by the fact that misha and jensen are literally just wildly horny bisexuals who were crazily attracted to one another and were falling in love on screen before our very eyes. and when you have THAT insider info(which sounds cray doesn’t it!!!! the destiel actors are in love irl??? huh???) everything really does click into place. why destiel got SO popular when the show and actors never ever intended for it to happen.(i know some people think misha was playing cas as gay the whole time for shits and giggles, and i won’t deny that[especially considering he found out early on that destiel was why he was staying on the show], but i don’t think he really wanted it to amount to anything, nor did he care??? i mean he has the real thing with jensen, for one, so their characters aren’t really as important. for two, he loves joking about destiel because it’s a cultural phenomenon and it’s fascinating, and i’m sure he did ship it because he’s unhinged, but i don’t think it was vastly important to him either way.) destiel got popular because everyone was and is unintentionally reading into the real deal. i could pull up countless gifs that people have used as destiel proof that is actually just jensen and misha being messy. mainly jensen. if i’m being honest. the symbiotic relationship between destiel and cockles is why i’ve stayed onboard the destielcule and shellerscape for three solid months now; because it is utterly fascinating to witness and kind of super beautiful, too.

5. alma(and others). so. i do NOT want to really REALLY get into this in its entirety here and now so i will just give you my opinion on if i think alma is misha or not. also; i don’t want to mention the other poetry accounts here bc i feel like that’s a bigger breach in privacy, but a lot of people do know about alma now. way too many, actually. this is why we can’t have nice things. anyway-to answer your question-there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that yes, misha is running that alma poetry account. i am 100% certain. some people think it’s actually three people and they’re all connected to misha in some way but that is so needlessly complicated. as it goes in psychology; the easiest explanation is probably the right one. it’s just one person running that account, and it is misha collins. i don’t know why it’s so hard to believe KNOWN POET misha collins(who is known to spend most of his free time writing poetry anyway) would have created a secret poetry account to write about his intense secret relationship under an alias and also get legitimate feedback since no one used to know it was him. oh and the handwriting is identical??? you are blind if you do not see that i am sorry. and a million other things prove it’s misha too but yeah all you need to know is yes. it’s him. it would take a literal livestream from a random woman on that account to convince me otherwise. and honestly not even that because a random woman could technically still log in if misha asked her too. so. it would take a hell of a lot to convince me otherwise, clearly. that said DO NOTTTTTTTTTTTT GO ONTO THAT ACCOUNT WITH A SUPERNATURAL RELATED USERNAME AND COMMENT THINGS THAT ARE COCKLES RELATED. ARE YOU BRAIN DEAD WHY WOULD YOU THINK THAT’S OKAY. sorry i got heated but god please just don’t be dumb so many people have already gone way too far

6. thank you for your lovely compliment on my analyses!!! i love doing them but i don’t know if people actually like reading them so i really appreciate it

#liz answers #cockles ask #mini analysis #spec #mine

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rubyleeray · 4 years ago

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MARS RED Review

Hey All!

It’s been a while (way too long!) but I’m back! And I’m here with something extremely exciting!

A couple months ago, the good folks at Favary very kindly reached out and offered me the chance to be part of a beta test for their new game - MARS RED: Edge of the Nightmare based off of the Stageplay turned Anime of the same name written by Bun-O Fujisawa.

Regretfully at the time, I was completely unfamiliar with this story/universe but that didn’t matter for long because as soon as I saw vampires - I was immediately on board. Not to mention the stellar cast featuring so many of my favourites!:

The Story

I want to start by saying that I’m not 100% certain as I have not seen any of the original source material yet, but I believe this is a new original story that continues/expands upon the existing MARS RED universe.

You play as Yastufusa Yuki, a newly-turned reluctant vampire that is spiralling into an existential crisis. One day he encounters Organization Zero (a group of good vampires that hunt bad vampires) and discovers he holds a unique and rare ability to mentally recreate and perform crime scenes. With their help, Yatsufusa sets out to realize both his life and afterlife’s purpose while simultaneously helping fight crime.

Even if you are someone who has had enough of/doesn’t particularly like Vampire content (can’t relate!) - you will still enjoy MARS RED. Yatsufusa’s journey into self discovery in the afterlife is a more human story than you may think. If you have ever felt lost, lonely, confused, depressed, and/or unsure of yourself you will be able to relate to Yatsufusa in some way. And if that still isn’t enough to convince you, there are so many hilarious and touching moments, you will never be bored.

And the scene with the baby sparrow just completely melted my heart:

Gameplay

MARS RED is already unique to me in the sense that it is the only non-romance game I have on my phone but it’s also a Mystery/Crime/Horror Visual Novel which is such a great combination! I am not sure if there are any Good Ends or how many there may be yet (the story is still in development) but I have come across a couple bad ends. These were easy to go back and get for me because they involved choosing the options that no one earnestly playing a heroic protagonist should pick 🤣. They were quick and funny and are very obviously the wrong choice so if you haven’t hit one yet, you’re on the right path! If you want to get a bad end, go to the end of Chapter 1 and refuse to help.

Now, I don’t know if it’s a pandemic thing or just a me-getting-older thing😬, but I have almost no patience for games with checkpoints that I have to grind/spend like crazy for. All I really want to do these days is interact with a good story. MARS RED is the game I’ve been searching for for so long! Everything centres around and furthers the story which is super refreshing because for some reason that’s becoming increasingly rare in this genre (and industry in general🫖). Not only is it a solid, mysterious, supernatural crime story, it’s also super fun to play! I absolutely love when a game has mechanics that actually exist to serve and support the story and experience as opposed to just shamelessly providing the player with another reason to spend.

Here’s another confession: I hate most gachas. There, I said it. Why? Because for the most part, I only want/like stories. I don’t want avatar clothes or duplicates of N items that I have to go in and manually delete constantly. I just want to have more content of my faves without spending my entire pay cheque. Is that so much to ask!? MARS RED thinks not! I saw there were two current gachas even in beta: one limited and one not. I was excited because I love everything about the game already but I was also skeptical because I have a long history of being burned to a crisp by all gacha games. I was expecting to see an offering of the typical beautiful and virtually unattainable rainbow rare prizes like cards that are essentially useless (but damn are they pretty!). However I am thrilled to report that MARS RED has blessed me with my dream gacha. STORIES GALOR-IES!

The rainbow rare item was a story with a cg and I managed to pull it on my second 10-pull and OMG I loved it. It was so wholesome and pure and a great length that made it feel as premium as it gets!

Aside from the story, there are three other major mechanics: Investigating, Inferring, and Exploring.

Investigating is so much fun. It reminds me of my childhood days reading iSpy books and playing Spot the Difference games. To investigate, you simply tap on items in the scene to read about them.

Each item offers their own unique clues and context and you better remember what you see because you better believe someone will ask you about it later and that’s called “Infer.”

During the Infer portion, you are given a limited amount of time to make assumptions and come to conclusions based on what you found during the Investigation portion. If you are like me and love playing Investigator - you will love this!

During the Explore portion, you don’t actually have to do much other than pair up 2 people and choose a location. They will Explore on their own and level up/earn you the money and points you’ll need to progress later on in the process. You can also earn rewards called “Murmurs” which are little short anecdotes between the guys.

Cons

My only “con”/criticism is that I wish there were more cgs. I hardly came across any and there were so many fantastic moments that would have completely blown me away with an accompanying CG. But for the record - the CGs I did see were gorgeous!

Random Thoughts

I feel like this would make an excellent BL game - where are my fellow YatShu, YatSuwa, and/or YatDe, shippers?! XD

I love Yatsufusa. He is my son and I want nothing but the best for him and his vampire/human friends. If anything happens to him...I WILL become a vampire myself and avenge him. I already want NEED a little plush doll of him.

This game is generous without spoiling the player and it’s user-friendly without making me feel like a child. I really appreciate that especially since I feel that most recently released games cram a million mechanics in without ever connecting them to the story. (Have I talked enough about how bothered I am by a lot of recently released games 🤣?)

HAS TUMBLR ALWAYS HAD A 10 PIC LIMIT?!

Closing Thoughts

If you’re looking for a game/story that you can actually enjoy without stressing over - give MARS RED a go! The world needs joy now more than ever and Yatsufusa’s smile is pure serotonin! Go get yourself a boost and download this game available now on both Google Play and App Store!

Thank you for spending some time with me! I hope you are doing well and keeping safe & happy. I’m off to go play more of this game (Chapter 7 just released!) while finally checking out the anime! Stay safe and healthy and I’ll see you soon!

***Disclaimer: I was provided early access to this app for the purpose of reviewing it by Favary. I have not been nor will I be compensated for my review, but I received a small in-game sum of points to complete the story in the beta. This does not mean my opinions or words were bought and paid for. These are my honest thoughts and feelings and Favary entered into this agreement with me requesting and expecting nothing but.***

#mars red #favary #vampires #review

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miminiac · 4 years ago

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Korrasami had build up, just maybe not one you identified with and that’s okay...

I am tired of the LGBTQ+ community hating on Legend of Korra (LoK) for not being gay enough. The critique that there wasn’t enough build up is (1) not productive at all and (2) honestly, not true. There was build up. It may not be the build up every LGBTQ+ person will like, and it may not relate to the experience of every person’s coming out, but it was there. Korrasami was something the creators had tossed around as soon as Book 1 (not that they necessarily had permission to do anything about it). Take this quote from Bryan Konietzko’s tumblr post after the finale aired:

As we wrote Book 1, before the audience had ever laid eyes on Korra and Asami, it was an idea I would kick around the writers’ room. At first we didn’t give it much weight, not because we think same-sex relationships are a joke, but because we never assumed it was something we would ever get away with depicting on an animated show for a kids network in this day and age, or at least in 2010. (link)

The post also discusses how Makorra was never meant to be endgame after Book 1. Again, the time LoK was airing was at a point where states were passing laws to actively prevent gay marriage (LoK ended in 2014, legalization of same-sex marriage by supreme court ruling wasn’t until 2015––context is important). Did they actively write a romance in Books 1 and 2, no they did not. However, as many creators and writers, they let the characters lead them and they discovered that Korra and Asami were more than just friends. Again, taken from the same post:

The more Korra and Asami’s relationship progressed, the more the idea of a romance between them organically blossomed for us

So what we have with Korra and Asami is not a planned romantic relationship from the very beginning, however, the characters have been leading them there since the beginning, whether they realized it or not. Now, I am a big fan of Barthes’ “Death of the Author”, so I 100% percent think that viewers/readers have the ability to inject their own narratives and that multiple narratives can coexist. However, the point of this post is to explain why a critique of “wish they did more” is not productive when it comes to discussion of LoK of a piece of LGBTQ+ media representation. Therefore, I turn to the creators to show that there was intent and there was subtext and build up within Book 3 and 4 (as Bryan discusses in his post, please read in full when you have time).

A lot of Korrasami was hidden in subtext, and that happened because of homophobia within the industry, which still exists today. Content creators of LGBTQ+ media continue to have to walk a fine line. Take Noelle Stevenson talking about Catradora:

My big fear was that I would show my hand too early and get told very definitively that I was not allowed to do this

And like with Catradora (though a little easier since Noelle told viewers that every character is a part of the LGBTQ+ community by default unless explicitly stated otherwise), people saw Korrasami from as early as Book 2 (if not Book 1 on a rewatch).

At the time LoK started airing, I still thought I was straight; I still thought I was straight when I was watching the third season and telling my then boyfriend how Korra and Asami were going to be a couple by the end (literally, when they interacted in the first episode of season 3 while Asami taught Korra how to drive, I turned to him and said it; he said they would never do that and it was a pipe dream). I continued to see Korrasami’s friendship build into something romantic (even if the characters themselves were unaware of it).

Come Season 3 Episode 9, where Asami carries away a helpless Korra, mimicking Katara having carried away a helpless Aang. For those who had watched the original series and were big Korrasami shippers, this scene basically made it canon. It could be argued as the point that maybe the friendship switched to something more romantic. The rest of season 3 and all of season 4 only added moments between these two (side note: I came out as bisexual soon after season 4 started airing, though I had been questioning my sexuality probably since the end of season 3).

Now is the Korrasami relationship perfect, absolutely not. Bryke admits as much, but it was a significant step forward. Again, this happened in 2014, so a lot of narrative within media of states passing laws to discriminate against same-sex couples and deny marriage. The hand-holding scene everyone screams about not being enough. Well, they received plenty of homophobic backlash from that.

The critique that they didn’t do enough is not productive. It is a critique that could be said about most main-stream LGBTQ+ media. I get that we are tired of scraps; I get that we are tired of having to read between the lines because creators are still afraid to come out and say it (pun intended). However, to critique LoK as “not being gay enough” ignores the context in which it was created and what that representation meant to many of the viewers (like myself) who were discovering themselves and their sexuality at the time.

Avatar: the Last Airbender (ATLA) was made for 8-13 year olds (from season 1), and I would argue that LoK was made for that same group of people, who would have then been 14-19 years old when LoK first aired. Thus, LoK was being watched by those entering high school and college––a time of self-discovery.

Additionally, a critique that LoK doesn’t do enough leads to an idea that there is “a right way” to create a LGBTQ+ relationship, which I would argue is harmful to the community at large. If you did not identify with Korra’s coming out, that’s completely valid. If you did not identify with the way the Korrasami relationship progressed, that is also valid. But you cannot invalidate the relationship of Korrasami, as a relationship built off a friendship and mutual respect that blossomed by into something more. The relationship was not sexualized with wistful glances and blatant sexual tension, instead, it was built on a friendship and respect for boundaries.

Again, multiple narratives can be drawn given each viewer has a unique set of experiences. One such reading could show that Asami was more in tune with her feelings for Korra than Korra was about her feelings for Asami. And, instead of flirting non-stop with Korra, Asami respects Korra’s space (though we all saw her check out Korra’s back muscles) and recognizes that Korra has a lot on her plate being the avatar, a relationship is not something on the forefront of her mind. It is only after defeating Kuvira (and the healing/growth from a few episodes prior in "Beyond the Wilds”) that Korra is able to truly understand her feelings to Asami, suggesting they take a trip together––just the two of them.

Now, you may not identify with that type of coming out, but other people do. And to argue that “LoK didn’t make Korrasami explicit enough” undermines the experiences of those in the LGBTQ+ who heavily identified with Korra’s experiences and her coming out.

Holding LGBTQ+ media to this higher standard is inherently toxic. I would like to believe that these creators are coming from a good place with good intentions. There is nothing toxic or abusive in the way Korrasami is portrayed. There is nothing unrealistic about the way their relationship progressed throughout the series. It was not a fan service––it was the natural progression of the characters.

And let’s not forget that Korrasami is not only confirming a relationship between two women, but it is also two women of color. Now, it may not seem like a huge deal within the contexts of the Avatar World, but it is important to remember the context of where this show was airing.

There are things we can critique LoK on. It isn’t perfect. We can discuss the hiring of white voice actors (as a way to hold new media that is being created or will be created accountable, not as a way to just hate on LoK); we can discuss the voices within the writers room and the lack of diversity there. These are critiques that can be made of ATLA and LoK and countless of other media produced. This is a valid critique when used constructively. It is not meant to tear down an entire piece of media and everything that it has done for various communities, but rather to point to a flaw within the way media is being produced and the racist, sexist, and homophobic systems in place that determine what and how media is produced.

If we are to critique, we could look to reimagining how we create and consume media, not tearing down media that has already been produced and stands in a pivotal spot of the community. As Audre Lorde says:

For the master's tools will never dismantle the master's house.

If we are continually operating within the systems of oppression, we will never truly be able to dismantle them. Thus, to operate within the institutions of Nickelodeon, Netflix, Disney, etc. is to be beholden to the rules and constraints of a moderate, heteronormative, sexist, racist society. If creators stray too far from that line too quickly, there will be backlash. The perfect LGBTQ+ representation cannot exist while made within these institutions.

I would like to mention this statement is not to say that we cannot critique or boycott movies or shows that are performative in their diversity. There is no excuse for Hollywood after the successes of Black Panther (2018) and Crazy Rich Asians (2018) (and others) to not fill the crew and writers with the same representation being shown on the screen. We can, and should, hold production companies accountable––and given the internet, it is something we can do even early on in the production process.

I have gotten a little off track, but my point is, think about your critiques. Really ask yourself if it is a productive critique, or if it is critique that actually harms or is toxic to the community. Critiques are hard, I understand that. When we first start to think critically, it is easy to just jump on these “low hanging fruit” type critiques. It takes practice and comfortability learning and expanding your world view to construct a critique that looks at context from various point of views and experiences.

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jasmine-tea-latte · 3 years ago

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Fanfic Overview Review!

Buckle up kids, this is reeeeeally long post!

How many works do you have on AO3? 39

What’s your total AO3 word count?

777,168

That said, the Phoenix and the Dragon - The Complete Series, which includes several different stories combined into one fic, accounts for 100,057 of those so I generally don’t count it in the final number. But that’s still 677,111 words otherwise, so not too shabby!

How many fandoms have you written for and what are they?

That have been published? Just one, ATLA, on AO3. (More on that later…)

Are there any new fandoms you want to write for?

At the moment, not really. For ATLA I’ve spent a lot of time researching and rewatching and immersing myself into the original story and lore for ideas, and I just don’t have the energy to do that with another fandom. Not ruling it out, but it’s highly probable I won’t branch out from ATLA.

That being said, back in the day I probably could have written fanfics for Doctor Who, Game of Thrones, or Supernatural, but I figure that I’ve already got enough on my plate with my existing ATLA fics and real-world responsibilities.

What are your top 5 fics by kudos?

1. The Fortuneteller and the Fire Prince

2. Souvenirs We Brought Back From Ember Island

3. Things You Can’t Say Tomorrow Day

4. Sweeter Than Honey, Stronger Than Whiskey

5. Sunshine In A Storm

Which of your fics do you want more attention for?

Honestly, I’m just happy anytime my stories get attention, or something in them strikes a nerve with the reader. That being said, I’d love for the Izumi-centric fic to be higher up on the list of people’s favorites, though that’s mainly my own fault since I’ve been so inconsistent with updates.

It started out strong in Fall ‘20, then I scrapped a controversial plotline early on that I’d been planning and had to completely rethink things, then I posted a lot of chapters a few months later in January ‘21, then the last update was back in July ’21.

Sorry Zum, I’ve just had a far easier time writing about your (fanon) parents. Whomp whomp…

Do you respond to comments, why or why not?

Yes! I make it a point to respond to as many as possible. I love receiving comments (and I’m terrible about not leaving any on other fics, tbh) so I do try to respond every time. I love getting feedback and hearing which parts of the story that people loved.

What sorts of things do you normally write?

Fluff, angst, smut, character-driven pieces, and sometimes I even throw in a little crack for funsies.

What’s the fic you’ve written with the angstiest ending?

Ohhh, Snuffed Out hands down. I still don’t know what possessed me to write that. Granted, it was several months into the pandemic back in 2020 and I’d been trying so hard to keep my chin up and a smile on my face, and as expected, eventually the walls cracked and I broke down. Then I decided to channel all the negative emotions into writing something with an incredibly dark ending and well… it turned into a gut punch of a story.

I’ve actually been called a monster for that fic, which I took an odd sort of pride in. (Is that what GRRM felt like writing the Red Wedding from ASOIAF? If so, I totally get it now, getting the rush of evil adrenaline.)

But anyways after that killjoy of a story that’s currently got the least amount of Kudos on my fic list, I decided to always end the rest of my stories on a happy not, or at worst, one that’s bittersweet.

What’s a fic that pushed you out of your comfort zone?

The Mai-centric A Mad Woman was perhaps the only fic I’ve actually been a little scared to post, as there was so much potential for that to fail or receive backlash not just from the ZK side of the fandom, but from the MZ side as well. But at the end of the day, I went for it because I wanted to give her character closure after the events of Phoenix and Dragon, and I decided fuck it, sometimes you’ve gotta take risks. So I was very, very happy that it didn’t bomb or outrage both the ZK and MZ shippers, at least not enough for anyone to leave negative reviews. *knock-on-wood*

Souvenirs was also an experiment, as I was worried that the tone might be all over the place and wouldn’t resonate, but fortunately that one seems to have stuck the landing, as that has the second highest number of Kudos and is my second most read fic.

I was also really, really nervous about TYCSTD, as I hadn’t really written a darker Zuko or explored the darker side of the characters. Honestly, I was fully expecting that fic to fail. So I was pleasantly surprised when it blew up as much as it did, and I still remember how amazed I was to learn that it had been recommended on a ZK Facebook Fan Page. Like, wow guys, thank you! 💜💜

Its popularity also later inspired me to dive deeper into the darker, angstier stuff like The Devil Laying By Your Side and all over you, all over me.

Do you write crossovers? What’s the craziest one you’ve written?

I don’t. Not totally opposed to it, just not my thing.

Have you ever had a fic translated?

Nope, not that I’m aware of.

Have you ever co-written a fic before?

I’m not opposed to it, but I also like having complete control over the story. I did enjoy working with a team on the ZKBB21 project, though!

What’s a WIP that you want to finish but don’t think you ever will?

That Izumi fic, which will be finished one day. Hopefully. The problem is I have a very loose outline for where I want it to go, so I’ve got Points A, B, C and X, Y, Z plotted out but I don’t know how to connect those.

Ditto for Devil, because I’ve been making it up as I go along with no real plan, just a vague ending scene in mind. I know it’s in the last few chapters, though. Still, I’m tempted to just end it where it’s at and call it a day.

What are you currently working on?

· all over you, all over me

· TYCSTD, which will FINALLY be wrapping up soon

· The Devil Laying By Your Side

· A Fire Burning In Her Bones

· I’m also bouncing around some ideas in my head for follow-up stories and sequels…

What are your writing strengths?

I’ve been told that I’m good at getting inside the characters’ heads, trying to make them act like real people and not just characters in a fanfic who end up together based solely on the whim of the author.

I also think I’m good about giving them (the main couple, at least) justifiable character arcs and have them earn their happy endings.

I’d also say I do a decent job of weaving angst with emotions, plus I’m not afraid to pull punches when it comes to making the reader feel for the characters (see: all of aoyaom and this chapter of TYCSTD for reference.)

Plus, I like taking canon events and bending them to fit my own stories’ timelines and making them seem like they could easily fit into the show itself.

What are your writing weaknesses?

I spend very little time on descriptions of clothes, scenery, and the like. I did that in one scene for Of Halos, Waves, and Starlight and it just felt clunky, so I tend to skip over anything more than vague descriptions.

Also I haaaaaaate action sequences with a passion. I’ve tried to include some in more recent fics to spice things up, but yecccch.

What was the first fandom you wrote for? Most recent?

Most recent? ATLA.

Confession: me participating in ZK Week 2020 was not actually my first ever time writing fanfic. Back when I was 13 or 14 in the early 2000’s, I actually wrote two incomplete DBZ fics that have long been lost to time and several moves over the years, so I sadly have no idea what happened to them.

However, as neither of these stories ever made it past the pages of my spiralbound notebook or ended up online, I don’t count them. Plus, they were TERRIBLE.

Jump to below the cut for me reminiscing (and cringing) over my teenage-era fanfics...

What’s your favorite fic you’ve written?

Oooh, that’s a tough one. Haloes was my first fic ever, so it will always be my baby because it was so fun to write (Technically it’s my second story posted on AO3 but I wrote Sunshine and the other 6 stories after it around the same time.)

I also had a blast during Souvenirs because the readers got so invested in that fic like a mini soap opera of sorts, and it was so enjoyable going on that roller coaster of a journey with them.

I also have a soft spot for Fortuneteller and Sweeter Than Honey…, as well as all the fluffy oneshots that were written for fun during Zutara Month in December ‘20.

What fic are you most proud of?

I’m incredibly proud of the group effort that went into the Zutara Big Bang fic A Present Fit For A Fire Lady, which was nothing but fluff and happiness. The artists on my team created such beautiful pieces, and it also inspired not 1 but 2 original songs! Seriously, my team knocked it out of the park, and I’m so thankful I got to work with them.

Also, for shameless self-promotion: I wrote a fricken’ 8-part series within the span of less than 2 months for Zutara Week 2020 (I’ve added on with additional fics since then, too).

The following stories? All written, completed, edited, and posted in less than 8 weeks, aka how I spent time in a quarantine lockdown at the beginning of the pandemic:

· Sunshine In A Storm (9K+ words)

· Of Haloes, Waves, and Starlight (13K+ words)

· A Beautiful Disaster (17K+ words)

· Interlude - Musings with the Old Masters (1K+ words)

· Affirmations (10K+ words)

· Duality (6K+ words)

· Moonrise (5K+ words)

· Phoenix and Dragon (18K+ words)

Those come out to at least 79K+ words, I’m not going to do all the exact math.

Sure, there are elements I’d change now and some parts that make me go “ehh that was too rushed” but I still came out of the gate swingin’.

Not bad for a fanfiction writing debut!

I tag whoever wants to ramble on about their stories!

And now, for the self-roasting of my first ever fanfiction stories from when I was in high school that are sadly lost to time within the spiralbound notebooks of yesteryear…

I don’t remember everything plot-wise, but both were total Mary Sue stories that revolved around Dragon Ball Z's Future Trunks because I had a thing for his character back then.

Lots of ATLA fans talk about Zuko being their defining cartoon crush, but mine was the OG Brooding Sword Boi with Daddy Issues and long, lavender hair that fluttered majestically in the breeze, looooool.

Mary Sue Fic 1 – The Surprise Relative Edition

One of the fics was about a half-Saiyan female OC who wound up being Goku’s surprise niece / Gohan’s cool older cousin that nobody knew about (Radditz had hooked up with some humanoid alien 17 years earlier, or whatever). Sadly, I can’t remember what I named her, but she showed up right the fuck out of nowhere in the middle of the Perfect Cell Saga after being born several years prior to the beginning of DBZ and had been serving in Frieza’s army though no one notable in the series had ever heard of her.

So since she was 16 and badass and flawless in every way, she impressed the Z Fighters with all with her fighting skillzz and got into a relationship with Future Trunks (specifically the longhaired incarnation). I remember writing Vegeta to be in awe of her power levels and thinking she’d make a fine addition to their Saiyan family legacy or something cheesy and extremely OOC like that. Oh and of course, she was also the first female Super Saiyan, because she was ~*special*~ and oh-so-kewl.

Mary Sue Fic 2 – The Super Special Love Interest

The second took place in the Alternate Timeline after the Androids / Imperfect Cell were defeated once Future Trunks returned at the end of the Cell Games Saga. Once again Future Trunks stumbled upon yet another OC Mary Sue character (and this one resembled me IRL, haha). Her name was also Kalila because that means “beloved one” and she too was speciallllll.

Trunks x Kalila 5Ever.

They fell madly in love despite zero narrative buildup, only for him to discover that she was a spy for the survivors of the Red Ribbon Army and had been sent to kill him or something because of blackmail. But then she got second thoughts and developed feeeeeeeelings for him along the way and thus was unable to complete her mission, or something. Of course he found out, there was drama and Alternate!Bulma was rightly pissed because her son is literally all she has left after losing everybody else, and this girl thinks she can seduce/kill her boy? No ma’am. Then this chick ultimately had a change of heart and saved his life during an attack and redeemed herself, earning his and Bulma’s forgiveness, blah blah blah.

I’m seriously bummed that I don’t know what happened to those stories. But if I ever DO find them again somehow, I might post them just for kicks and giggles. Because hoooo boy, I’ve come a long way since then and rereading Baby!Jasmine’s early stuff would be a frigging trip.

#fanfic writing #my fanfiction #ramblings #shameless self promotion #long post

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