#I want the Skirk lore I want the Childe lore but I can see it happening and nope do not want

[possibly-not-a-ghost]

I have One (1) fear and it's playable Skirk being utterly demeaning in her treatment of Childe.

[ironnumber1fanboy]

How Childes trial made no sense and forced him into being a plot device(From a Childe nr1 stan)

As my goats(Iron) fan, i have to yap just like her I want to start off by saying that seeing the 4.0 trailer i was the happiest man to have ever lived, seeing Childe being involved and finally seeing him since 2.2 However, this all came crashing down at the end of 4.0-4.2. If this gets any positive reception ill yap about the whole fontaine plot and why its so bad in relation to Childe. THE COURT TRIAL

As we can see in the entire conversation, Childe is very well aware of how the court rules go beforehand, yet he only asks to challenge Clorinde in the middle of the trial. Childe is not a dumb idiot, he obviously would have asked her to duel in character.

You might say he wanted to participate in the trial and clear his name but we know thats not what happens. In fact, Childe doesnt listen to Neuvilette, doesnt care about the incident he is accused of and just challenges Furina and Clorinde to spar. But it doesnt stop there. No you see, the second and the biggest problem is the verdict at the end

Guilty Foxtaru(look at this cute loser)

There are SO many problems but lets go over them one by one 1)Neuvilette even at the end of goddamn 4.2 has no answers!

Something that Mihoyo has an issue with definetely is apparent in Childes character-and thats setting up lore that you dont fulfill or leave ambiguous.Even after us as players waited 2 whole patches for an answer- we didnt get one and we CANT get one cause Focalor is dead.

2) and 3)Neuvilettes hypotheticals that he makes at the end

2)Focalor isnt dumb to just make the first call so i wont even bother elaborating why that assumption Neuv made cant be right 3)Is the juicy one, but also with more plotholes. Let me elaborate

-It makes no sense Focalor would somehow know Childe is gonna fight the whale(especially for that long) in the first place, at best its a guessing game

-Childes connection to the whale is something she shouldnt have any knowledge on

-Her being able to foresee all that, yet Celestia or Verdafonyr or hell even Skirk were NOT able to see/know him fighting the Narvhal in fontaine and changing Fontaines destiny. If Focalor had such level of insight and power that scales above all these characters, there would be no need for a diversion

Closing thoughts I hope i explained well why the trial never made any sense- From Childe acting out of character to Focalor being omniscient and knowing more than Celestia,Visionary and Skirk about Childe. It was merely just writers not knowing how to write him being in the Fortress and meeting the whale.

[oh-my-may]

LET'S TALK GENSHIN AND REMURIA AND ARLECCHINO BEFORE I FORGET AND WE'RE ALREADY IN SECOND HALF OF THE PATCH WHY DOES TIME FLY WHEN YOU'RE AN ADULT

I'm gonna start the post with a few paragraphs I wrote just a few days after the patch went live:

So I finished the first Remuria world quest - it was beautiful. And really not as long as I first expected it to be. I probably could have finished it on the first day if I wouldn't have been as tired as I was

First of all the new map is beautiful. You'd think after 3? patches of map expansions where we already got underwater stuff it would feel repetetive but somehow it looks and feels different and refreshing. Maybe because majority of the map are caves where you can walk normally or they're ruins... idk.

I couldn't help but draw parallels between Remuria and HSR's Penacony tho, especially look-wise, the talk of a dreamscape and the theme of music. Especially now after finishing Penacony 2.2 I can't help but feel the two are very similar in certain aspects... the motive of Harmony and Song and Peace and saving a people and Gods? Also the way Remuria looks is so similar to certain things in Penacony? I already said rhis in my post on HSR, this is absolutely no hate whatsoever. I reckon there's only so much you can do with these motives? It's interesting how differently it looks in both games tho.

So yeah, Remuria is beautiful. The music is an out of body experience and encapsulates the whole thing perfectly. I haven't explored all of the map yet, but I like the new mechanisms a lot. The floating books look so cool and just generally the significance of music through it all... *sigh* it's so enjoyable.

So far for Remuria... i definitely missed a few things I wanted to say but it's been like 2 weeks since I played this and I definitely forgot something haha

AS FOR ARLECCHINO THO

First of all she's broken omg. It is kind lf annoying that it'll take weeks to max out her talents, rn for me she's sitting at crowned NA and skill and burst are level 7 each. But she still hits for like over 50k with each normal attack when she has a bond of life. Don't even get me started on her with Yelan MY GOD.

Okay with that out of the way let me talk about her story quest. First of all I find it very intriguing that hyv gave up on the usual pattern of having the second weekly boss for a nation be tied to the Archon and their respective second story quest (besides Mond ig)... i mean yeah Fontaine's archon situatipn is very peculiar but technically Neuvilette has taken over the role for now, right? Neither him nor Furina getting a second story quest makes me think Neuvi's probably gonna get his way later because it'll be HUGE. Again I wanna say that lore wise Neuvi is my fav character... HES JUST SO FNDNDBDN. And Furina is probably gonna get a pretty "random" one at one point kinda like Yoimiya did or Cyno... like its gonna be a good quest but it'a gonna be random. ANYWAY

I wonder how much different I would habe perceived the quest if I hadn't watched the Animated Short about Arlecchino that they put on Youtube... like it's her whole backstory? I could see where the quest was going right from the beginning because of it... that doesn't mean I didn't enjoy it, tho

Childe's little surprise cameo made me so happy c: MY BOY. He's alive snd well AND IN FONTAINE. Let me remind ypu we last officially saw him in the last Atchon quest gwtting yeeted into a black hole by Skirk. Then it was mentioned at the end that he was being treated and sent gome to Snezhnaya. Well...

The whole cryptic talk between Arle and Childe was quite interesting... so this project by the Fatui, right? (Forgot the name rn bc it's been a few days since I played the quest) Is it fonna be significant for Natlans story? What does it entail?? THE TEASE NNNNGNNGHH

I wonder if at some point in the game we're actually gonna see Lyney become the new head of House of the Hearth. Like... it's mentioned quite a lot in his story as well as in everything that has tp do with the House and Sröecchino herself... I wonder 🤔

Throughout the story I was reminded that one of the first things we heard about her (Childes voiceline that came out in like??? 3.0 or so???). It was that she would turn her back on and betray the Harbingers (AND THE TSARISTA) without second thought. She even says this herself in her voicelines. I just wonder what her ultimate goal is? To free herself from the curse? Which btw they tell us nothing about in the story. Story is all about the House and its inner workings and Arle's feelings about it and plans for the future (which I love btw but still not quite understand)... we also casually get told that Arle is not even that old??? Like the whole thing with Crucabena is so recent that Freminet remembers her???? Amd Arle was maybe a Teenager when she killed her so like??? She's only around 10 years older than the kids????

So how come she's a descendant from Khaenri'ah? I don't know if I read somewhere abput it or if its a rumor but not confirmed or if its said in her personal story which I haven't read yet but... she'a from the crimson moon dynasty? Or has some ties to it? And her curse is definitely related to it BUT WHAT IS HER CURSE EXACTLY. WHY DOES SHE HAVE IT. If she's only in maybe her late 20s she couldn't have been an actual Khaenriahn citizen (same as Kaeya and he still gives me the same headache thinking about this) so how does it all tie together in the end?? Does it have to do with the God of time maybe??? (Nevermind if this is talked about in her personal story in her profile I haven't read that yet)

So yeah... the fight woth her was so cool. The animation??? I saw people get upset about the fact that Traveler couldn't beat her but I actually love that?? Like... She'a #4 of the Harbingers and has some curse probably tied to Khaenriah and she KILLED A HARBINGER WHEN SHE WAS A TEENAGER??? Traveler nlt being this almighty MC makes them so much mlre likeable like yeah... they are obv far from having their actual power back? It took us ... how many times to fight Shuki No Kami before we could defeat it in the final try to learn all the patterns? The game wants to tell us that there's much more powerful enemies in Teyvat and rhis is only the beginning. Let me tell you yeah we beat Signora but it was Raiden who killed her... it was Zhongli who subdued Azhdaha. We only healed Apep with Nahidas help. Traveler has never been able to easily defeat these big enemies, they always had help. Yeah they have been getting stronger, they've been getting access to more elements but the bis enemies are just getting stronger and bigger too... I wonder where that will lead. Maybe the twins are only gonna get their true power bavk once they're united... ANYWAY

Her weekly boss fight is cool too. Using different mechanisms again, with the whole Bond of Life thing and all. She does this one attack in her second phase that I just... can't get behind tho. Someone always has to be the victim, THE SACRIFICE, to get me through haha. Idk how to dodge or avoid that attack. The one where she floats above the arena and then these bombs? Idk? Come down and basically crash down on the whole arena and I haven't found a spot where you can aboid getting hit and therefore killed immediately idk.

So yeah that's all for now. Very excited to play Cyno's second story quest. Heard only good things so far about it, which is good because I really didn't like his first one 💀 probably gonna get around to play it one of these days. Same as with the rest of Remuria exploration, gonna need mlre Clorinde funds :3

(Gonna add screenshots later, it's been so long that the ones I took aren't saved in the PS App anymore 💀)

[aha-chuu]

I've seen some discourse about Fontaine Act V, specifically some posts discussing misogynistic characterisations and other such things, so I wanted to throw my hat in the ring and air out my thoughts.

Firstly: most of the game up until 4.0 had sexism rooted deeply within the writing. You can look to the actual character designs to see the mistreatment of the female characters most plainly, but it's a gacha game selling waifus - whatever, that's not pertinent. More pressing is the actual writing of the female characters; despite there being several more women than men, the male characters on a whole seem to get more screen time, story presence and deliver more narrative weight than their female counterparts.

Who are the characters who seem like they'll be relevant throughout the game? Which characters are awarded a greater diversity of personalities?

There have always been well-written female characters in the game, but so many are not given ample screen time to explore that. Even more get given interesting backstories with no personality to follow through on the obscure lore.

Even in Inazuma where the quest is dominated by feminine presence, it's Kazuha who has the most voice lines throughout the game out of the Inazuma cast, Ayato (who didn't even appear!) who gets retroactively awarded the title of mastermind. The writing in Inazuma does just suck in general, but still nobody thinks of Yae in the same way they consider Albedo, Scaramouche, Neuvillette. You can make ten million arguments for why Ayaka's demure disposition is relevant to her strength as a character in non-combative ways, but the game's narrative does not capitalise on that, leaving her to feel very samey to characters we've had before.

The point being: the argument for Fontaine being a misogynistic hell hole does have a backbone in how Hoyo has previously dealt with their characters. However, in my opinion, this is yet another case of "trying and falling short is a worst crime than making no attempt at all".

Fontaine has a huge diversity of women characters who all feel distinct. You could read an unmarked line of dialogue by Lynette, Navia, Charlotte, Arlecchino, Clorinde, Sigewinne, Skirk, Furina or Foçalors and you could pretty accurately distinguish who has said it. Now, a lot of these characters are written to be victims - Lynette being child trafficked, Navia having her whole family die around her, Arlecchino an abused orphan, Foçalors doomed to die and Furina is cursed. But in no way does this diminish their individual strengths or leave them without agency.

There's a misconception that a "strong female character" has to be, basically, an 80s male action hero but with boobs this time. If she is feminine then it better be in service of her badassery. In reality, the mark of a well-written female character is her agency in the story to change it - agency here is important, because throughout fiction female characters have often shaped entire stories... By being doormats that you could replace with a sword the hero really wants.

So in terms of Fontaine, how do these characters stack up? Not just in terms of their diversity of personality and depth of story, but also their power and relevance in the Archon quest itself?

Furina is presented as being trapped in suffering, but the reality of the situation is that she has the option to give up at any time. You cannot replace Furina with a cool treasure that the Traveller really wants; she makes active decisions in service of the plot constantly, in spite of her torture and fear and weakness. That weakness is never portrayed as some huge flaw that we the player must fix, it's in fact evidence of how strong Furina has been for centuries.

Navia too - though (by virtue of what the story is about) she has less to do, Navia thrusts herself into the quest in our defence, rallies our team and, yeah, needs saving along the way! Just like Freminet in the primordial seawater in Act IV or Lyney on trial in Act I.

Arlecchino maintains many feminine traits while also twisting them on their head. She is the "Father" of the House of the Hearth - obviously gendered - but she is most defined by her maternal love (feminine). She is never placed into a position of weakness in the Archon quest, always in control and saving others.

I think looking at Neuvillette's ascension to the position of leadership in Fontaine and labelling the whole ordeal "misogynistic" is insanely reductive. If every nation were ruled by a man despite 5/7 "archons" being women, sure. But Mondstadt is presently led by Jean, Liyue by Ningguang, Inazuma by Raiden (& Yae?) and Sumeru by Nahida. If the problem people have is instead that in this process Furina becomes more meek and emotional, then I point again to the wide variety of personalities the female characters in Fontaine display. If every woman is meek and emotional that's a problem, but those are literally only adjectives you would use for Furina (who is severely traumatised). Navia would be resolute and kind-hearted, Clorinde reserved and courageous, Charlotte curious and assertive - the list goes on.

And to pretend like Neuvillette doesn't bow down in many instances to the whims of other characters is a frustrating take. Yes he gets a cool cutscene of fixing all the problems of the prophecy, but that's only surface level; he did that after Foçalors explained that it was all her plan and her sacrifice. He takes Skirk's advice to give Arlecchino the gnosis. Even back in Act II, Neuvillette admits his own weakness of understanding to Navia - in that moment she is grieving and upset, but the narrative never treats her as unreasonable for her feelings. In fact, Neuvillette (who is supposed to seem wise and level-headed) admits his own wrongs and apologises to her!

Anyway. Please try to look at Fontaine with a bit more nuance.

[hawkinasock]

I’m hoping you’ll go more in depth about the mom lumine AU for me

I’ll take whatever details you can give me but I do have one specific question: would Yanqing be with Lumine (and maybe Childe) like some crime-committing Batman and Robin, or would he still be with Jing Yuan? I can’t see Lumine abandoning her kid but Jing Yuan without Yanqing just wouldn’t be the same lol

Unfortunately for you, anon, in most versions of this au, she does, in fact, abandon him </3 There is a reason for it, but I'll leave that for another time. Just know that this au is largely canon-compliant.

To keep everything concise and easy to swallow, I'll compile all the lore for the primary (my favorite) version into a bullet point list.

(Putting a cut here in-post because I yapped. So much. I'm sorry, anon)

Lumine and Childe are heavily based on Bonnie and Clyde, and they follow the same general idea and dynamic.

For Childe, his crimes involve mainly petty things, with a good amount of theft, battery, grand theft auto, etc, while Lumine is best known for one thing: the murder of a high-ranking political figure many decades ago.

It should be noted that the two of them aren't hsr versions/expies of their canon selves, they're the same people (technically) and have the same backstories (with some tweaks on Childe's part)

I'll focus on Childe mainly. The main divergence in his story is the fact that once he entered the Abyss at 14, he never left. He remained under Skirk's tutelage for some time, but soon began traveling on his own in search of a blonde girl he's been seeing in his dreams (memories) since childhood.

Two things about the Abyss: 1, I'm following the theories/implications that the Abyss and the sea of quantum are the same and therefore connect to different worlds. 2, and a personal headcanon(?), is that the Abyss saps away at ones sanity, and by association, their memories.

Having spent the better part of a decade in the Abyss, Childe is slightly more unhinged than canon, and despite entering the Abyss to one day return with Lumine, over time, he's all but forgotten most of the life he had before, including his and his family's names. In fact, most of his memories are completely muddied, only clearly remembering his search for one very important person.

It's by seeing Lumine's wanted posters all over the place that eventually leads him to her. Along the way, he becomes a wanted man in his own right for said theft, battery and grand theft auto.

While Lumine denies knowing Childe, she entertains his antics and accepts his (many) requests to join her on her journey, despite not being privy to all of her motivations. His main goal in this partnership is to act as her, well, partner in crime, and hope that maybe one day she'll remember him.

Aside from Lumine, Childe's main goal is to find stronger opponents across the cosmos to challenge himself, and it's through following (and "protecting") her that he can meet different worthy opponents.

It's estimated that they've been in this partnership for 2-3 years prior to hsr's prologue (Childe is roughly 25). So far, no one has been able to catch them or fully understand their motivations.

Bonus: the idea of Yanqing being a sort of "robin" to chilumi's batman (technically its more joker and harley quinn, but still) is an idea I've rotated in my head a bit. I feel that, for the most part, none of the party members would actually know that they're family. Childe and Yanqing would play off each other brilliantly, though. I just know it. Even without knowing he's a dad, he fits into his role with ease.

[razorblade180]

Hot take: arlecchino should have a more prominent presence in the fontaine aq because she’s literally just standing there most of the time. Also, archon or not, furina is a celebrity and arle’s attack on her is a serious crime

Say it one more time for the people in the back.

I can’t describe how utterly disappointed I am of Arlecchino as a character. Years of lore about the orphanage and multiple Fatui children describing the pain, and even running away just to die later really built up a reputation I don’t think they delivered on. Especially with the voice lines about her.

Then when she finally shows up, she talks mad shit, proclaims fate won’t easily have its way, then isn’t even in the room when the grand reveals and plans happen. Her people helped saved one town and she provided one piece of info. She didn’t have to work to get the gnosis because Skirk told Neuvillette to get rid of it.

Form me she was just incredibly underwhelming and the game chooses to pivot to the “Oh but she’s not so bad” angle after the year and a half of info.

Not to mention they really try to downplay how most of the orphans don’t really know what they’re getting into until later on when it’s too late to leave, yet despite that fact, they need to earn the right to leave which involves taking a substance that they might not be able to withstand. I can’t speak for everyone but where I’m from, that’s essentially gang rules. And I think what actually upsets me the most about this is she really has no allegiance to the Fatui so aside from funds, I really don’t see what was stopping her ditching the entire group and creating her own orphanage. It can still be a fucked up one in the sense that its goal is to ruin the Fatui, but why exactly did it have to be apart of it? Who even arrested her and why did she stick around long enough to get arrested?

All these gripes that I have and yet the game tries to sell how absolutely awesome she is and that she isn’t that bad of a person. It’s at this point I wish Hoyo just trusted the idea that they can make a horrible and unhinged person that will still get pulls. I wanted a cool evil woman. The more they tried making her caring, the less interesting she got for me.

Childe and Scara are actual menaces to society who worked more than her to get a gnosis. There also wasn’t a sharp contrast between lore hints and their in game presence. Hoyo said Scara was a sad and angry crazed fella and that’s what we dealt with. I’m not a fan of Childe but they played it straight with being the battle hungry family man. I like subverting expectations but I don’t really think that’s the strongest move to do when you’re trying to sell a character. Put the right label on the box if you’re going to allude to said box. Furina had character twists but is still very much in line with what we knew and experienced

[narwhalandchill]

Honestly. thinking back on it (am mega late yes) even though i like. ultimately enjoyed going thru fontaine AQ as an experience in terms of its emotional core and payoff with characters like navia neuvillette n furina having very strong writing and characterization i do think the overall AQ lore and worldbuilding is probably the messiest in the entire game and feels like all of its opportunities and potential was underutilized the most and thats just. Unfortunate

like yes its inazuma thats the most infamous for how shitty and rushed its execution was (and rightly so) and yes it Also had its share of issues with nothingburgers like the whole statue thing going nowhere or how shoddily constructed the entire it-was-all-the-fatui deal was

but i still think it has a stronger ground to stand on like. all aspects of the story if just slightly differently written and centered around better in-lore reasoning and logic. Are internally consistent with the world ya know. and would have produced a good story. like it could be fixed easily. no need for me to go Full Rewrite here but like just to make a point:

a shut-in deity paranoid and trauma-stricken is ignorant to her peoples wishes and enacts an eternal rule that stifles their hopes and dreams. discontentment in the nation (NOT just the vision holders it shouldve been ALL inazumans divided on this i s2g) has been on the rise but only outside forces stoking the flames push it into overdrive as they seek to exploit the unrest to get the gnosis. couldve brought the whole "peoples faith powers the archon" if they wanted to pop off bc then the fatui by sparking the civil war are Directly weakening eis power like Thats solid! less ei was innocent and only the fatui led to the bad stuff more. ei is flawed makes shit choices and leaves an opening for their operations etc etc etc.

foreshadow signoras past and distrust of the gods in like a tense encounter or two early on (ritou maybe?) where she hints at a deeper reason behind her actions. no need to trauma dump just have her like idk mock us for seeking the archons for "help" in finding our sibling slash truth of the world and coincidentally use wording that directly alludes to what we already heard from dainsleif earlier abt the cataclysm and archons sus so its like an Oh Shit. she can namedrop or allude to venti to imply its personal or sth to further recontextualize her actions in mondstadt as well.

and so on. like then fixing the rebellion (ppl join for other reasons than just the VHD so its a more common cause etc maybe some ppl dont care abt the decrees as much but the drafting of civilians into the ever expanding war effort goes too far) and stuff like that. inazuma had the ingredients for a consistent good story they just fumbled it completely

whereas fontaine tells like. a much stronger and more hype emotional core journey for its focal points as u go thru them but also it just. Genuinely falls apart if you poke at the setting and world for a bit too long its really just swiss cheese and that sucks

like as much as i Do love the narwhal in a very normal and sane way i still think story wise it absolutely goes into the signora tier of mishandled AQ boss fights except Even worse than hers bc. signora Fits inazuma even if she was handled poorly. but with the narwhal (and by extension childes entire presence as happy as i was to see him at all) its just... kinda random? and got pretty much brushed aside even during the AQ like we get the opera hall cutscene and then theres a THIRTY MINUTE cutscene with focalors before the actual fight happens like way to just. eliminate any urgency from the situation bruh. and then at the end both the narwhal and childe kinda just got plot deviced into hyping up skirk and surtalogis name drop. which rly fucking sucks. 99.7% of fandom never reads the AQ fight boss drop to consider the narwhals a sentient thinking feeling entity and not just a dumb big pet bc skirk called it that etc.

childe in general i dont think im necessarily like. as negative on the way he was handled as some ppl are (tho the general sentiments are 100% shared) but its still very much like. a disappointment w his lack of presence and voiced lines and in terms of how a lot of the intrigue set up in the AQ Especially the oratrice judgement just got shrugged off all "who knows 🤷‍♀️" like Are You Serious. and also p much using him as a neuvi hype device like . I saw it i knew ppl were going to be insufferable abt it & was right

i also saw a comment talking abt how childe Being the purple guy inside the narwhal just corrupted or sth wouldve given him a more heightened presence during the boss fight and while im a hater of that concept for other reasons (mostly the. narwhal must have malicious designs for ajax thing) i cant disagree with that take in terms of the story aspect. like if the narwhal ate him when he fell back in (which i kinda? assume mustve happened lmao like where did he Go 😭😭) it Wouldve been a much greater moment for sth like that to be there.

But bc i personally dont like the Brainwashed Puppet Angle i think how id have done it is just. sure make the purple guy more reminiscent of ajax n his fight style maybe even FL . But. feature an actual fucking cutscene in the stomach of us realizing its Not Him. but instead its the Narwhal Emulating Him as a spectral summon thingy. bc it ate his dumb unconscious ass for safekeeping or w/e and is now copying his homework of "use a manifestation of the other as a combat technique" (v romantic btw. soulmates real). like DUDE we had childes earlier AQ appearance Actively Bring Up this EXACT thing! he uses a hydro construct mimicking the narwhal as a combat technique bc of how their encounter rewired his brain chemistry. and now the narwhal needs to improv a more humanoid angle to combat in its stomach after it ate us. so like pov ur the narwhal whats the closest point of reference to draw from at that moment?

Oh Right. the guy ur been fighting for 40+ days . Your guy (derogatory) 💀 like they have a telepathic link who knows if it could just straight up cross reference Our combat moves from the flashes its getting from childes memories of seeing us in action and utilizing that.

like it wouldve been so sick and still left the nature of their connection relatively open ended. like it ate him skirk would be separating them at the end and maybe comment on it a bit and his whereabouts during the entire thing wouldve been Way Less confusing. The knight dude being a mimic of ajax' battle technique would thematically connect to the golden house fight and his hydro whale technique and its just. the current electro dude is just so Huh. like its a good jumpscare and i love the OST obviously but it getting No Lore NOR cutscene sucks so bad

(And like if they wanted the combat design to be so that theres no cutscene interrupting the transition between being swallowed and entering the stomach phase just make it an AQ exclusive one. and if we cant have traveler talk and logistics of bringing paimon/neuvi to make the shocked observation of "is that.... him? no... its just an imitation???" or w/e . Just have us FLASH BACK to childes own fucking dialogue as the phantom him is summoned to face us where he mentions 1) traces of the narwhal on him and 2) the basis behind his hydro summon technique. so traveler can have a silent !!!!!! Realization that he got ate or whatever and now his narwhal is stealing his ideas jsjskdksirigkf)

Anyway i swear this wasnt just abt those two im so sorry . but like yeah its just a fucking shame and also the narwhal being just like . Means to an End in the prophecy feels kinda meh but like i dont have a solid idea on how that would even rly be fixed but yeah. underutilized my both beloveds

Back to fontaine general stuff tho i kinda do think that . hoyo almost missed the trees for the forest w it all if u will excuse the mid metaphor . like they told a very strong emotional story w neuvi and furina and navia But it came at the cost of a highly illogical lore and worldbuilding and its just An Issue if u dwell on it even a little bit and its rly a shame

like they were going for this justice theme of maybe AI justicebot is not The Way (TM) and people viewing court as a spectacle rather than a show of justice but then went never fucking where with it in terms of Maybe This Needs Changing . they made that entire champion duelists a thing despite it being So fucking stupid fundamentally like it just relies on nobody with enough raw power to just solo any duelist ever getting into the ring

(no credit for this tho this was a comment thread i ran into on leaks sub. there was also a point made abt how childe dueling and winning against clorinde when hes accused wouldve been such a great moment of like both showcasing clorindes role and linking to their earlier sparring and holding back thing and also that maybe the system sucks when this is possible and while i get the story needed him in jail so he can reunite w his narwhal . im now mad this didnt happen. give him a W in combat hoyo.)

like theres this entire thing about flawed justice in fontaine that is present in the 4.0 story but then it just...... Disappears. Bc AI justicebot was anti celestia archon deleter all along and it finished its job so its no longer a fundamental ethical issue for the legal system and fontaines ppl to grapple with and confront shit like childes sentencing. And furina wanted dramatic trials bc of what she was told by focalors but since she retires its now just neuvillette whos super fair so everything is fixed .

im not as big of a hater of act III as some but like thinking abt these things further makes me like it less and less like Yes they wanted this meropide vs regular fontaine dichotomy explored and all but thinking of it is just. i wonder how worthwhile the opportunity cost was in there (i have no correct answer btw)

bc . if you keep the childe jailed bc justice AI bot. they shouldve shown the people responding to it . bc that entire highly controversial judgement is Literally accompanied by the solving of the serial disappearances case AFTER multiple ""culprits"" had already been imprisoned for it which i actually forgot (thanks same reddit comment for reminding me) like Whats with those people then????? and just. Everything to do with the entire case including childes deal shouldve been a much bigger social upheaval anyway like ik stuff like furinas SQ shows ppl personally affected in the aftermath but i mean in bigger scale.

And Then if we like run a bit with this alternate hypothetical idea of childe no diffing the court system (clorinde im sure youre powerful but like i put more faith in those ruin guards that lasted 4s against FL than u girl) so hes simultaneously kind of a criminal let off scot free but also its so stupid to think a guy thats like 25 at most is involved in a 20yr old solved case it couldve been actual source of political discord. and like if you need to get him to the narwhal for plot reasons its Rly Not That Hard theyre obsessed with each other bro gets pinged a whale call once and its like yes honey we jailbreak for reunion tonight (hes going to throw hands Immediately bc hes the toxic battle maniac one). also yes ik they wrote it weird so technically ajax cant duel after the oratrice decides hes involved which is major intrigue point (that canon wasted but oh well) but like. they couldve written differently idc. he couldve even gone off investigating why AI bot considers him guilty on his own and then jeepers!! speedrun glitchless any% spawned into the primordial sea!! hes missing! but like this isnt a well articulated idea whatsoever lmao im just winging some shit

meropides existence in general was also just weird. again i enjoyed the character writing it enabled for wrio and the HotH trio and despite disliking childe just being MIA i do like how the storytelling around his escape expands on his social intelligence and street smarts still. but as an entity the fortress is just sorta there as a system that Obviously shouldnt be Like this when its literally the other side of the coin to fontaines Already dubious legal system but then they went the whole. its a gathering place for exiles (still a prison)!! a home for those alienated by the surface world after so long (so why KEEP them in there that long)!!!! protectors of egerias secret (okay Sure. but whats the need post prophecy then)!!!! And its like. okay im not about to uhh. overstep my understanding of the risk a chinese company limited by often nebulous and inconsistent censorship would take if they went for a full on prison reform/abolishing angle w the writing like i dont think that was in the cards. But it still means meropide as a system just falls apart if u think abt its existence critically At All and its hard to say whether fontaines writing omitting sth like it entirely wouldve ultimately been better for the overall focus of the story anyway. but yeah

and its just. im sure theres even more that i havent even noted here (logistics of nobody drowning in the flood & rest of teyvat being unaffected etc etc) bc this is just a rant ramble not a coherent analysis but my point in all of this is that the abundance of issues like these just kinda add up so that by the end its kinda like fontaines simultaneously the AQ that id say has the highest highs in terms of its best moments and strongest emotional beats and how much heart it carries . Like im not taking that away from it.

but its also the AQ with like genuinely the messiest fucking groundwork in lore and larger worldbuilding implications whose aftermath leaves the most plot threads barely explored or just discarded altogether by the end and its just?? Such a weird mess like i very much enjoyed it despite the problems and for me it still overtakes sumeru in many aspects but i cant pretend those problems arent there . like consistency of writing and lore accounted for sumeru is still the best AQ

(oh also. the fact that to my knowledge no fucking fontaine NPC Ever reacts to the events throughout the AQ is fucking insane. like other nations could get away w sth like that better but. THE ENTIRE NATION FLOODED. How the fuck arent they talking. ppl in meropide post act IV abt the close call. ppl who saw the narwhal in the opera house in V. Like . HUH???)

but yeah its . A weird situation w fontaines writing as a whole . & yes im giga late to the discussion HSJSJSKSI but oh well thats my brain for ya

[c6jpg]

okokok i did the 4.2 archon quest thoughts below

i really loved it.... except things involving the whale. the whale's whole part in the story literally ruined the flow for me LMAO when they threw the whole revelation of "the whale wants to eat everyone because it THIRSTS FOR PRIMORDIAL SEAWATER" i was just like. really. REALLY. REALLLLY.

it felt like they just needed to force in a weekly boss and extra lore the way they did it. the overall fontaine archon quest could easily have had nothing to do with a space whale. the lore they did drop through skirk could have been interesting in a different context but it felt so irrelevant here.

that being said neuvillette was pretty sexy when he was like "let us go EXECUTE the BEAST". my guy was MAD mad. also skirk literally chucking childe through the portal was hilarious.

rest of it though. god. loved. well actually beginning and end kind of dragged on but furina's trial (ignoring the whale) was awesome. mixed feelings on focalors but furinaaaaaa FURINAAAAAAAAAA god you could really see how she suffered and the ending where she disappeared because she just wanted to rest... OUGH. also really loved how emotional the encounter between neuvillette and focalors was like i can only imagine the wild mix of emotions neuvillette was going through.

hmmmm what else okay random bullet points

WHAT THE FUCK DID SKIRK MEAN BY REMAINS OF THE THIRD DESCENDER. HUH. HUH?????????????????????

i'm confused how like. geographically it can flood in fontaine. isn't it a raised lake????? if a raised lake sitting on a plateau is flooding what in GODS name is happening to the rest of teyvat. whatever. teyvat has its own laws yeah yeah

the way the whole last part of the arc was like "yeah neuvillette just solved everything with dragon powers." lol. lmao even

i really don't like charlotte lmao

oh MONA was an interesting surprise but also feels like she was there for no reason i feel like they could have done more with her especially since her whole thing is literally HYDRO and FATE

wrio on the boat WRIO ON THE BOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

honestly my appreciation for furina really shot up through the roof. i didn't care much for her before honestly but yeah SHE GETS MY RESPECT FOR THIS ONE.

focalors' hair really bothers me tbh..... the way they rendered her long hair does not suit the bob cut thing furina's model has lol

i can't actually think of anything else my brain is fried. mostly just feeling vast disappointment about the whale but really loved everything with furina and neuvillette rotating them in my brain at high frequencies rn

[thenamelessgay]

thoughts on 4.2 archon quest

needless to say that the 4.2 archon quest was one of if not the best archon quest there were up until today

but I’ve been seeing a lot of people that are saying that this is the last quest in the region, which is absolutely not true. we got at least two coming up, and they are going to be so lore heavy. especially with natlan coming up with no information about the region up until the last quest

I guess we got some sort of a pattern when it comes to like white quests are going to be for each region and we got five acts for the main story, you know I’m getting to know the region, the archon everything solving the problems of a god, even though we’re just a human…

and after the five acts, we are entering some sort of a phase where, for about five versions we will get at least one interlude quest, and then another one that is related to the traveler dainslief and the abyss sibling and then we’re going to get a quest that has some sort of a preview for the next regions, gameplay and geography 

but if we’re talking just about the 4.2 quest, then I have one thing to say that I 100% sure about and I don’t care if I’m wrong I just like to clown a little: SURTALOGI IS DAINSLIEF 

you can hate me in the comments as much as you like, but I am convinced that they are the same person. They share similar tiles both inside and outside of Genshin, both of them reference of the power from another world. Both of them are incredibly related to the abyss, and whatever it is outside of the world.

skirk said that she could answer some of our questions through childe and I’m pretty sure that a lot of it is going to be answered in the traveler quest perhaps somewhere around 4.5 or 4.6 because this is where the traveler quest usually happens and we are going to learn that dain and surtalogi are the same, or at least related in a big way

regarding to Capitano:

he is number one he isn’t number two and Piero is not number one because it is absolutely confirmed by Hoyo themselves in the fatui trailer that he is number one and Piero is just Director a.k.a. the head of the fathi, the founder or some sort of ranking above what we know as the 11 seats

natlan is a very very important region because this is the last gnosis we got before the fatui have all of them and I’m pretty sure that they are going to use brute force this time, because in every single region, the fatui used either diplomatic, skills trading, or some sort of trick to take the gnosis. (yes, Venti wanted his gnosis to be taken he could fight back against La Señora, but he chose not to and for reasons that we will understand once his second chapter of his story quest will be released. I’m guessing somewhere around 5.6 after natlan before snezhnaya)

these are just some of my thoughts about the 4.2 quest and I will share more if this is what you guys want I don’t know how to use Tumblr and yeah 

[anemxvisions]

//ok my monster thoughts about the AQ

Ok first off Paimon read the freaking room omfg like please! Do you not see the state of Possion?! Like she just lost the two closest people in her life. On top of that I was crying laughing when Neuvillette showed up and clearly saw her going through it but he legit perked up and was so happy to hear how Sigewinne is doing like bruh XD

That out of the way lets get to the most talked about parts of the AQ

First the imfamous Childe throw by Skirk…honestly it’s actually what I expect from her. Listen Hoyo loves teasing us so they’re not going to show all dynamics with her. If anything this is a clear sign of her character especially as she referred to an all consuming whale as a pet. Her chucking Childe goes to show she’s not super entuned with human nature, given how long she’s been in the abyss makes sense. Bottomline I didn’t take away from the scene as comedic, yeah it got a little chuckle but after I heard how Skirk talked about him makes sense, Childe is the stray cat she found in the dumpster, stinky baby.

Moving onto the Focalor and Furina, yeah Furina needs a god damn hug and I’m taking her away from Focalor! My jaw dropped when I saw the hundreds of tally marks as she had to go through basically the same day for over five hundred years with the only thing keeping her going is Focalor’s message. God my poor bubble like she probably wanted to tell Neuvillette so many times but couldn’t I’m sobbing.

I do feel they could have hinted more at Focalor being separated, it would have made her sacrifice feel more impactful like Rukka’s but I digress she needed to be completely hidden in order to defy the heavenly principles which good for you girl. I just don’t like how Furina’s ‘reward’ for all of this is to live as a human like…five hundred years to get maybe at most sixty years? It does not seem fair or just, her suffering worth so little.

Neuvillette honestly was going through it but I’m so happy he wasn’t ‘betrayed’ by Furina like how a lot of us were predicting. I do however wished he had the like big emotional moment with her and not Focalor.

A thing I really liked is how the Fatui for once are not blamed for what happened and instead actually helped the nation out. The Knave said it best that organizations with abundances of resources should lend a hand no matter sides. She came to Fontaine first to save her home get the gnosis second. I am sensing the building blocks of her being friendly towards us for when she eventually becomes playable and yeah wincing and mourning the loss of her being the mean queen but who knows we still need Fontaine’s second world boss.

Nobody else said it but I am so mad at the lack of more Remurina lore! Like how can you heavily talk about it last quest and barely any mention of it?! I hear maybe in the future we will be getting more but I’m all huffy

So glad to see the arc was used, a small part of me felt like the arc in the fortress was never going to be used as a plot point so very glad I wasn’t disappointed.

Now onto the extra info at the end…the gnosis being the remains of the third descender is def giving JJK Sukuna fingers vibes lol like what the Tsarista gonna collect them all consume them and get the power of a descender hehehehehe…..

Anyways! Natlan crumbs and it’s the nation of war and dragons like hello!

Overall I don’t typically play Archon Quests expecting anything, I always set my expectations low so I don’t get unintentionally mad some bit I was hoping for isn’t add. I don’t really expect hoyo to really get into the nitty gritty details especially with archon quests and with a track record of many of the final acts falling short I was expecting this a fifth time.

I give this AQ as a whole a 6.9/10

The build up was great the cutscenes amazing urgency all the way until the end. There are ofc some parts where it fell flat but I still greatly enjoyed this quest.

[ipcearn]

So I finished the most recent Archon quest a week and a half ago, as well as Furina's (first) story quest and I had some time to process and get my thoughts in order

Beware a long, rambly post beneath the cut

I knew what the ultimate twist of the Archon quest would be concerning Furina and Focalors, though not the details of how and why before I played it since I procrastinated on it so long and I didn't evade spoilers, but I wanted to play it before I dug into the meat of the Film Festival event

But damn, that was pulled of very well, with the shifting perspectives (but also ooof, the guilt everyone had to feel when the verdict came down when they made the plan to get Furina on trial, even if it was all planned by Focalors, that would and should haunt people for a while, particularly Furina)

The thing with the narwhal whale was a bit left field, but damn did Childe eat during that cutscene, I do have thoughts on Skirk and her design that I am going to stew over for a while longer

I know people have been talking about this since the trailer had dropped and we got that first look at her, but yeah, for a character with her build up, I kinda expected to be a bit more wow'ed which is all I am going to say for now

Her lore drops though, damn, the revelation about the gnoses and how much more important the Hexenzirkel is becoming - suddenly it tracks very much why Mona is randomly in this quest

Maybe we will finally get that Mondstadt expansion soon I can dream right

But on the topic of the gnoses, I am gonna admit how confused I was that Neuvillette gave that to Arlecchino because I honestly thought that the trick Focalor pulled was essentially destroying the gnosis

I need to look over the earlier quest dialogues again because my understanding had been that the gnoses were given out by Celestia to a god/person which made them an Archon (though a dying/dead Archon can also pass their gnosis to their replacement apparently, I assume Makoto did this with Ei as well, but we get the confirmation that Egeryia did that with Focalors), and god does not need to equal Archon as we get in Liyue's lore regularly; now we know the gnoses are made of the remains of the third descender as revealed by Skirk, because like the Traveler the third descender could channel multiple elemental energies, but those elemental energies that elevated a god/person to an Archon were taken from the Ancient Dragon Authorities by Celestia (as revealed by Neuvillette)

To me that meant that the gnoses were the focal point for that power and we know once those get taken away from an Archon, they still retain enough of a charge of elemental power to pass as vision holders - see literally every Archon we encountered so far, it's either Venti or Zhongli that first explains that, coincidentally also the two Archons with fake visions - so I thought the trick Focalors pulled was by killing the Hydro Archon, she was destroying the gnosis to return the power to Neuvillette permanently

Because couldn't Celestia very easily now just decree the Hydro gnosis to a new person??? Which would create a new Hydro Archon??? We know the Heavenly Principles are not challenged lightly

Or is the Hydro gnosis now essentially powerless? Which would imply the Tsaritsa either isn't aware that is a possibility or that she was never interested in the elemental powers they hold and more in that they are made from the remains of the third descender since we do know the Fatui and by extension the Tsaritsa are aware of the Descenders

Also, very, very intrigued and admittedly worried how much more important the term 'planet' became in this quest, both used by Skirk and Neuvillette, since before it was always 'world'

I genuinely hope the storytellers know what they are doing and are not overloading the lore because planet is a word that comes with a lot of implications, particularly with "the sky is fake" as we heard in Sumeru from Dottore, if it was just Skirk, I could excuse that maybe (I need to look into Mona's story dialogue again because she I could also see using the word which would have strengthened the connection to the Hexenzirkel) but Neuvillette throwing the word around without question is what gave me pause

Plenty of questions, plenty of theories, plenty of concerns

Now to Furina's story quest

I thought they really did an amazing job in it with her dealing with the emotional trauma she suffered from having to play an Archon for 500 years... until the very end of the quest came around

Her setting her boundaries so very firmly really made me applaud her and the writing, and I personally thought where that quest would leave her would be her realizing a joy in running the behind the scenes of a theater troupe and play writing, finding her place in something that made her suffer but rediscovering the joys of it without having to retread what hurt her

And her emphasis that she would never act on a stage again felt so very important and in line with that, and even though a number of characters kept repeating how great she is on stage, her being adamant on her choices felt very important to her healing

And then the quest forces her to do it at the end anyway

Now obviously the art was beautiful and I was bawling during that cutscene, but it cheapened what I thought made the quest great before that

Though at least in the Film Festival event we get to have that director Furina running the behind the scenes instead of acting herself

(Edit after this post sat in my drafts for a few days: I saw that one of Neuvillette's profile stories digs into how the Ancient Dragon Authorities are linked to the gnoses, it doesn't really dispute my understanding, but also doesn't quite match it, though it does say that Neuvillette is now the one responsible for new Hydro visions; I'll need to reread that one a couple times before my brain computes it fully, so maybe I will make additions to this post at a later date)

[lostacelonnie]

Hell yeah! Mood every time i go to a beach i always miss her after. I will keep my fingers crossed for your return on another trip. Oh those are all so good. Im especially a fan of churros & empanadas. I should get paella again sometime. That is a very mismatched group but i respect the vibe based friendship. Also reminds me i should get back to finishing mag archives thats a good podcast. Also been meaning to look into goth music to see what thats all about. The peak goal of adhd people. To rember. High luck stat to not be attacked by gulls. I think i got a tad bit there too because ive never been attacked by them but like. You can see the simple minded desire in their eyes. Especially if you have food. Damn best of luck to her. Thats like people tellin me they moved to florida, where the gators climb over fences often. Group chat for geo teacher fans that is amazing. Love that for yall. Oh there's one thing xabi & i share as i too do not know whats goin on so often. Thanks! I only hope i have enough but i think sw is in the back half so i can save even more pulls than i have. Probably will have to pass her light cone up like i did for seele's til next time. Meta can leave i dont care for it i use who i want when i want this is an anti meta zone. Oh? Im not sure. What to ask about them. Like i wanna know more of their role in the story of honkai i guess. What happens to them & all that. Welt seems to have history with otto/luocha. & himeko is my coffee lovin mom character i like her a lot. We love a girl who keeps complex machinery like the express working. Skirk showed up so briefly at the end of the archon quest but damn if it wasnt funny. Yeeting childe out of the abyss & just lore dropping on us all. I think i saw you played the story quest & learned about furina? I think it was uh. Durandal's jp va that she shared with skirk i cant remember cant wait to see if she becomes playable though. Oh damn really? The range is insane indeed what a queen. Oooh congrats! I also got her & had enough for her weapon next is navia but i might only have enough for her & try for her weapon later. Since arlecchino is a few updates out. Im not yet at a world level where relics matter but same. Not the best luck on that yet. 7 am exam? That should be illegal but i wish you luck on your studies. Especially with feelin a bit sick trying to study while sick is awful. Ooooh nice! Such a fun & good series. I just got the fifth volume last week & finally had time to finish it. Quickly became a favorite for me. Now if only i had time to read everything else im behind on.

FOR REAL FOR REAL ive never been much of a sea person but ahh this is such a universal experience... and thankies!!! while i could never Live in spain permanently [hot and everyone tries to talk to you] i did end up becoming quite fond of the country. GOD YEAH CHURROS ARE SOO GOOD generally speaking i like ALL spanish food. banger after banger after banger. need to learn how to cook some because i miss it so bad. but i DID manage to not fuck up scrambled eggs when i made them for the first time ever recently so thats a good sign for my culinary abilities id say. anyway IT IS AJDKKFJF but i vibe with them so its chill. ah nice!! im terrible with podcasts [can never quite concentrate on them.....] but i wanna listen to it Someday since i heard only good things ab it. also good luck luck with that!! i like goth music as in i think its Good and i generally enjoy it if i happen to hear it but its also sth i just Do Not listen to in my free time. i respect it tho. coming back YEAH AJSKDKFK I WAS JUST. observing the gulls the whole time but surprisingly nobody from my class was attacked ajdjfkgjs. and ill pass on the message when i talk to her next time AJKSLJFJG i really Do wonder what even prompted her moving there sometimes. i believe it was her boyfriend but also she changes those as often as clothes so she must Really like this guy, i guess. good for her tho shes my coolest sibling. and thanks SHJDKFKA were really devoted to her. also ive been accused of simping for her by the ice skater which is extremely funny because this is not even the first time ive been accused of being into a 30-40 y/o woman by someone at school [ITS ALL CHILL BTW its just for the shits. still. attacked and slandered!]. and same ajdkfjgj tho in his role its actually Quite Annoying for my class since like. we NEED to get things done sometimes and he just. does not do that. like literally our english teacher [who also looks like shes constantly dead inside and hates her job but we love her] did more to help us with this one thing than he did even tho she did not have to do that in any capacity. shes just epic. AHH GOOD LUCK WITH THAT!! i love ignoring meta sooooo much which might sound weird from someone who spends half his life grinding for stuff in honkai but its true. honkai is literally the only game where i care about meta and thats bc honkai meta is UNFORGIVING. but hey at least the gacha is much better with the 100 pulls guarantee for each char + 50 pull guarantee for gear pieces. IM NOT VERY GOOD WITH OTTO LORE TO BE ENTIRELY HONEST as in i know quite a lot of it but it hasnt quite Clicked in my head BUT IM ALWAYS HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS AB THEM YOU MAY HAVE [<- GUY WHO IS SOO SO NORMAL]. AND YEAH SKIRK IS SO FUCKIGN FUNNY TO ME like the way she was previously described painted her as just so strong and intimidating but her speech pattern is so funny to me shes so chill. i feel like i could meet her smoking her evening cig and shed tell me where to pirate shit. id do a polish joke here but it is literally untranslatable without a 30 minute long backstory so nevermind. AND OOOOOH EPIC ALSO RIGHT?????? i respect voice actors above anyone else. ahh good luck getting navia!!!!!! i was Planning to pull for her but im much less efficient at grinding rn since i got a screentime limit due to having fucked up eyes [which im Not following btw but i am trying to touch grass a little bit more at least] [this is also the reason why i responded so late im sorry the change kinda threw me out of the loop]. ah understandable i was. well not Very high but enough to have trouble without decent gear so yeah. good luck in the future farming tho!! AND RIGHT I AGREE tho honestly the alternative would be an exam at like FOUR PM which is actually Worse imo. i personally function pretty well during my 7am classes and learned to enjoy them [public transport is very charming early in the morning..... i get to catch the sunrise sometimes] but that is also because i live like maybe 40 minutes away from my school. so i get up at around 6 am to get to school.

[ignore the random paragraph break i hit the character limit JSJFIGKJSWIJF] some of my classmates, however, have to get up at 4 am which. respect i could never. anyway thanks!!! the exam went quite well actually hehehe im doing much better in history than i thought. im becoming a nerd along with my entire friend group. every single day someone has new historical memes to share and theres already some inside jokes as well. fun. AND AHHHHHH THATS SO EPIC!!!!!!! i love this series sososoososooso much even tho i didnt have time to start the 3rd volume yet... however i DID read a translation of the "she's so cheeky for a commoner!" web novels and im about to read the light novel so im quite excited for that. first and only loretta and pipi fan ever.....

[rhineposting]

Okay so bear with me, most of what I'm about to say is either literal crumbs or stuff I made up to fill the Sinner shaped hole in lore.

So, starting with canon crumbs.

In a way, the two of them haunt the narrative of the Fontaine archon quests - the prophecy was penned and carved into stone by Vedrfolnir and carried out by Surtalogi's disciples, which makes me wonder : did Vedrfolnir know of his once brother in arms' involvement? With what intent did he leave the stone tablets for humans of centuries in the future to discover? Was it out of spite, a show of sympathy that's not understandable to us yet, or merely display of his power?

Now, you could say the connection was entirely unintentional, that they just wanted two Sinners in the same place at the same time to name drop them, but here's the thing :

When Skirk uses other Sinners as point of reference to describe Surtalogi, she doesn't go off of what people of Teyvat would consider common knowledge. If she did, she wouldn't have mentioned Rhinedottir second. After all, Rhinedottir seems to be the only one widely known for her deeds out of them, to the point where she's not just called a Sinner but The Great Sinner.

which, wow. slay. good for her.

But nope. She mentioned Vedrfolnir first, and immediately after she says she only heard of them from Surtalogi. Therefore, this implies that she mentioned Vedrfolnir first because Surtalogi spoke of him the most and likely holds him in high regard. Or maybe he holds some grudge against him. We probably won't know for another 2,5 years.

Everything else after this is strictly headcanon territory that will likely be debunked.

I'll start with the actual canon fact we know: that Vedrfolnir and Surtalogi both were geniuses : with Vedrfolnir likely being an astrologist, while Surtalogi was likely both a great warrior and a sorcerer of sorts, having invented the ability to harness Abyssal power without lethal, lasting harm to the user (Foul Legacy).

So. As I mentioned in another post, I feel like looking into the future has caused Vedrfolnir to lose his mind long before the Cataclysm, since I don't believe clairvoyance is something you can just practice nilly-willy without consequences.

it's a bit different with mona and barbeloth as they use astromancy (iirc) which is a subcategory of astrology and not actual, full on clairvoyance.

As for Surtalogi, I like to think he and Childe are actually pretty similar in some fields of life : such as concealing the depth of their capabilities unless absolutely necessary, so I imagine that Surtalogi wasn't exactly fully honest about his intellectual prowess, instead presenting himself as a great warrior first and foremost. Partially because it's more convenient that way and partially because he has a more straightforward mindset.

With that in mind, I think that before the Cataclysm he greatly respected Vedrfolnir, seeing not a barely lucid madman but someone who sacrificed his own sanity in pursuit of enlightenment for his nation. In turn, I think that Vedrfolnir saw right through Surtalogi's carefully crafted façade and found him far more bearable to be around than, say, Rhinedottir - in a "You. You do think you're better than anyone else but instead of flaunting it, you focus on proving it. I like that." sorta way. Dishonest, multilayered people probably give him a headache.

Thus, there you have the dynamic : two geniuses, one unsuspected and one undervalued, between them an unspoken understanding and mutual respect in the middle of a social battlefield that would be the royal court.

*passes out*

we heard of faceless yuri (rhinealice) get ready for faceless yaoi (surtafolnir/vedrlogi) who wants to hear me out

[narwhalandchill]

thank u for the addition! but ehhhhhhh im sorry i really dont see this transactional + desperation aspect u speak of personally so agree to disagree more than anything n i have my own view of why his relationships to people are like That

firstly im not rly sure where this widespread idea of childe being someone desperate for other peoples approval seems to be coming from but canon-wise thats... not really the case to me. its never been. he has always been consistently confident and self-assured to the point where lore in things like his boss drops and profile alike make a point of repeatedly emphasizing the extent of his arrogance and ego. this isnt a desperate individual (i wouldnt rly call nor consider him a narcissist but lets say hes Way closer to that than some anxious wreck), so like, that motivation doesnt track for me. he Likes approval and praise and attention yes he loves that shit (attention whore <3) but hes not dependent on it. he knows who he is and what he wants.

secondly. on the specific relationships.

with teucer; i dont really think childes exactly unaware of the unsustainable nature of his lies - idt hes really called attention to it explicitly so far, but the continued theme of promises and taking responsibility for those of them broken in his SQ and how he is generally way more self-aware of the contradictory nature and relationship between all the different sides of himself - despite all being true to who he is obvi - than ppl give him credit for (the self admitted "kind of a bad guy" and things like "even good guys lie and manipulate at times… and bad guys have their own doubts and misgivings", for a few) arent rly. giving me oh hes completely clueless on what hes doing. he calls it defending childhood dreams; i think he knows teucer will grow up eventually; he himself did, after all. now i obviously do think theres that selfish and prideful element to how much he wants to Keep being that perfect big brother but again. i think the motivation has nothing to do with transactions, its just abt having a familial dynamic untainted by The Ajax 14 Incident and trying to preserve the purity of that perception as long as he can despite how shitty it is for teucer and the best way he knows to construct that relationship is through the high effort Perfect Big Brother & Loyal Knight (TM) persona, same way he wears any of his facets as a mask for any particular opera stage that asks for it.

as with his parents, methinks the tension slash possible painful history there goes way too deep for anything in that relationship in particular to be generalized for childes overall social dynamics. i think him sending them things is at most a way of taking care of his family without ruffling feathers at home bc again, the self-awareness thing - id assume childe in his 20s knows he was out of control and in the wrong back then at 14 (altho while not a fan of taking that fanon trauma angle at all for what was behind that ordeal. i also dont rly blame him for being unable to acclimate back to teyvat post 3 months in abyss w 0 support either; even skirk an actual adult avoids the surface bc of that reason aka adjustment difficulties lmao and he was just a teen with no proper outlet before the fatui gave him one), and understands the damage cannot be undone. and because nobody wants to talk and open those wounds, he substitutes for actions instead for amends and olive branches.

the tsaritsa is just. not sth i see at all. again. childes attitude towards the tsaritsa isnt one of a revered deity whose godly approval hes desperate for at all - he respects her for one reason and one reason only and its that shes a fellow warrior. and one who by serving he can continue accessing the stronger enemies and challenges he needs to reach his ambitions. like i do think theres a more transactional element to his loyalty to the fatui in general than most ppl do (like. i can fairly easily see him not backstabbing rly but ditching the fatui if either of those clauses falls; so 1) tsaritsa loses his respect or 2) he overtakes the fatui in power and they no longer provide him a way to pursue his goals. or 3) they mess w his family lmao its so funny when ppl speculate on this not considering how it might backfire on the fatui lol) but thats exactly bc he is Not desperate for a gods approval just for the sake of it. like yes, loyalty and keeping promises is a big thing for childe and he v much takes pride in his duties as a harbinger and practically feeds his overgrown ego an exclusive high calorie diet of good-at-my-job juice. but a man that is explicitly out there to grind the thrones of the divine to dust under his heel is not someone id consider a character thats scared of the tsaritsa tossing him away if hes useless lmaoo like hot take but to me. SHE has more to worry about HIM ditching HER lets just. say that 💀💀

also. the human weapon thing rly gets overblown im sorry. childe puts IMMENSE emphasis on staying alive to see the end of his journey as the most important thing. he talks about it constantly. he is not unaware of the risks he takes and the dangers that come with his path - thats why he makes such a point of the value of life (curiously also sth he shares with skirk; did he get it from her?) irregardless of the outcome of a battle. he knows his life could get him killed and is staunchly committed to Not Doing That. like this is just very clearly established in lore. ppl see him as suicidal or self-destructive and its like nope. he takes risks yes and is both reckless and overconfident at times but theres a very clear line for. what he knows he can and cannot survive and his will to live things through is one of those very pointed characteristics unique to childe that tend to be forgotten in favor of more fanon trope aligned interpretations aka Having A Death Wish or not realizing the risks he takes

(altho editing to add in here that yes could be argued that he lacks a plan for an actual long term future; he has a voiceline abt overthrowing the world and then dueling us to the death implying hes kinda just not considering a life past the point of fulfilling that grand ambition but also. he brings it up himself hes clearly self aware there)

then zhongli; again i think its reading a bit too deep into it, esp since the whole sugar daddy thing as funny as i find the dynamic myself as well is sth fandom has rly made a bigger deal than it arguably ever was in canon lmao. childes a very generous person to begin with and also had an additional ulterior motive for tying the fatuis finances into his "working" (business dinner inappropriate flirting into what-are-we into YOURE WHAT (fucking fight me) etc etc etc chili my dearest) relationship with zhongli as a way to add potential strings to pull with the wangsheng funeral parlor. so like there was already a strategic aspect to that. but also like. i just think hes a filthy rich guy who isnt that invested in the elitism of that position that enjoys the company of a person who tends not to think about the cost aspect of his many hobbies and happens to Somehow be strangely unfazed by ajax' general existence unlike most ppl. so its like. i dont think its that deep. they hang out, zhongli forgor the mora and ajax has more than enough to spare and far too little care not to throw that mora around like its confetti

now. what to me feels like a more prevalent theme in the dynamics you mentioned and that i can 100% agree with is that childe puts a great emphasis on the value of actions. as ways of representing his promises and ties to others as opposed to anything more abstract. you say he needs to be useful to other people to be allowed to be around them, as stated before, i dont really agree with the desperation element there, but i do agree being able to provide acts of service and be competent and helpful is a big aspect of and v important to his character but its just the desperation thats not rly sth i see. its about his own capability to do those things for others that means a lot to him. in terms of pride and ego and how he views himself. thats really the only thing. making and keeping a promise is an action. taking responsibility for breaking it is one too. loyalty is more of a nebulous concept (hence his self-admitted ambivalence towards such things in labyrinth warriors act II that ppl still think isnt canon text bc it goes against popular fanon where hes just Loyal period and not with a abyss shrimp colored asterix lol) but fulfilling his tasks and excelling at what he is asked to do are actions that center him and make his actions as the defining cornerstore of his relationships to others. like that to me is the central theme of all those relationships and its also why with skirk that element is absent: he knows that within the only domain their relationship takes (martial master & disciple) he is by definition the one with jack shit to offer other than following her guidance and trying to improve. she has already defined their relationship as one where this usual dynamic of his actions isnt as central. but bc ofc he would hes also Still trying to impress her thru his actions and it shows in the way hes desperate (like. unironically. THATS desperation for approval to me like childe has Such a Please Notice My Efforts I Worked So Hard on This PLEASE energy towards HER that he rly has for no one else JKWDJKJKWDJKD puppy crush at 14 moment hes so cute. tsaritsa megafan ajax? nah its all skirk. like her approval actually matters to him So Much you can see it) to see her again and challenge her to use both hands to defeat him the next time. like the reason skirk doesnt fit the 'pattern' is bc they just have a different dynamic and one that was formed before his current (insufferable) self and attitude was fully formed and he became the kind of person hes these days. like it has the remnants of baby ajax there before he killed his old self and picked the bones clean to remake himself into a warrior

and like this was partially in the og post wrt teucer already but overall i think the very like. grandiose nature of the roles he seeks to occupy in his relationships isnt a sign of desperation or thinking any less wouldnt be enough for ppl to tolerate him around but instead a reflection of his perfectionism, drive and ambition as well as his massive fucking ego. he doesnt want to be a Perfect Brother (TM) or at least the idea of it in his head (which can be a source of dubious judgements to begin w) bc he thinks only that is enough, he wants to be that bc he wants to excel at everything he does and put his all into it. hes not content with being average he MUST be the best and work towards being the best. being Just A Harbinger (like that by itself isnt a frightening achievement at his age already) that does his job as he should is too lowly of a bar when he always always demands more from himself to keep improving. so he strives to be a lethal weapon of war for the tsaritsa that commits to his duties with surgical precision. and so on. its not that he Has to be such an overachiever but that he Wants to be. he Wants to surpass his own limits every step of the way and watch the boundaries expand in front of him as he proceeds onwards on his path (lab warriors act III)

and as much as all this analysis stands i also think hes kinda just. a practical fairly straightforward guy by the end of it. and letting his actions speak for him is just a part of how he rolls imo like showing commitment by putting effort in a relationship through his actions is just a characterization thing. its easier to act to him than to do anything else, and slotting into a specific Role within a dynamic like the Loyal Knight Brother or Weapon of War just lets him allocate and manage which parts of himself he involves in any specific relationship

(also. its an inch resting quote unquote "loophole" to me that lowkey if u think abt it. foil hat on. he is loyal to the tsaritsa As her weapon of war. as tartaglia the 11th. as that particular mask that character. but thats also v much not All That He Is. so like. if u think abt it. isnt there also plenty of sides/roles of him that technically have never sworn that allegiance to her 🤔 hmm)

but yeah this got long jwdjkwdjkwjkdjkdjkdjkwd im afraid i couldnt rly agree with the central point ur making there but. theres v much interesting stuff to look at with childes relationships for sure & and this is just my very quick rambles on some of it. not very coherent but just stuff ive thought abt For A Long While wjkdjkwdjk

spicy take incoming but i kinda wish ppl werent so desperately attached to and protective of this moniker of Great Big Brother 100% Perfect So True And Real when it comes to childe bc honestly. he really isnt (perfect or even that good at times) and to me acknowledging the ways both he and his family (for enabling him) are in some ways kinda just. doing teucer incredibly dirty in the long term but only with the best of intentions in the short term is so much more interesting than just pretending hes a flawless brother?? like it only adds to the drama and irony of it all man like theyre rly so dysfunctional as a family unit its great. even if hoyos likely never exploring that shit in its true depth it still lives rent free in my head for sure lol

like. you rly dont have to turn ajax into some sort of unfeeling uncaring monster of a shit brother to acknowledge that he does, in fact, repeatedly make incredibly reckless and selfish choices during his SQ with teucer and in general by choosing to obstruct the truth of who he is from lil bro so completely?

like this stuff can be nuanced and coexist with his absolutely 100% genuine commitment to protecting teucers bubble of a worldview (and w the theme of childlike dreams and wishes being so prevalent in general who knows what could be cooking w that one in particular) and his loyalty and love for his family without just having to whitewash the dumb shit he does lmao

like just bc hes capable of and willing to face the potentially grave repercussions of absolute bangers (🙄🙄) like teaching an actual fucking child to consider ruin machines fun besties and 100% insta ready to fuck himself up by protecting teucer at the cost of aggravating his still-unhealed injuries from the liyue AQ when dottores abandoned lab turns out to be more lively than expected doesnt. make that choice not a very irresponsible one yall im begging 💀

like. hes the adult here . the entire situation unfolding as dangerously as it does in the factory is Absolutely all on HIM for not being able and/or willing to disappoint teucer by just . Doing the mature thing and sending him away to safety because HES gotten too attached to this idea of being his lil siblings' loyal knight and perfect brother that Always finds a way to surpass the expectations no matter the cost its a role HE wants to keep playing despite the risk

like its So obviously a pride thing for him too and thats so fucking interesting because Of how flawed and questionable the logic is!! like yes he truly cares about teucer and ensuring he has a great unforgettable time during this impromptu escapade in liyue like thats not up to debate but the point im trying to make is that the choices he makes are Still very much intertwined with his ego and overconfidence and not really based all that much on Whats Actually The Best Approach Here. he improvises a way to give teucer the best mr cyclops outing he has ever seen bc HE wants to be the one offering him that experience and ends up biting off a bit more than he can chew and he can only blame himself for that one and This Isnt Fucking Sustainable

like i dont think that makes him evil but i do think it showcases his arrogance and flaws in a very concrete way and is a part of why calling him a perfect brother or at least one without an asterix just. rubs me off wrong lmao

like idk feel free to keep calling him that if its important to u and all if u want idc (and i do to some extent get why this defensive narrative of insisting hes great no issues at all emerged bc i remember 1.1 some ppl acting like hes childcare satan for how he treats teucer lol) but. at least like . Be willing to chip in to fund the therapy teucers going to need for those lifelong trust issues in the future man 💀

Bc Thats The Other Thing. now tonia and anthon i dont consider a part of this bc at least they Know hes in the fatui and hiding the gory details of ur harbinger job from ur baby sibs is like. fair enough and reasonable. but. crafting an Entire different AU version of yourself and feeding it to your baby brother as what constitutes actual reality surely is a choice of all times like ajax ily but genuinely . What the fuck if you were real id throttle you

AND HIS FAMILY ENABLING IT THE ENTIRE TIME ITS CRAZY LIKE. As a person with multiple siblings both older n younger with some similar age gap cohorts involved. God id snitch so fucking fast i dont think ppl rly stop and think much abt how objectively horrifying this shit is from teucers long term pov 😭 in the best way obviously given its fiction like its so scrumptiously awful and dysfunctional .

(& just in general man im just so obsessed with the way ajax 14 basically broke the eggshell of his past life and emerged to rise towards his destiny drowned in the guts and gore of the place and people and community he once called home unconditionally. Bro he fucked that town UP and now his family relations will never ever be the same its so fucking Delicious. those 3 days missing and what followed are just Actually a literal fucking horror movie when you stop blindly stanning our ginger menace, forget ajax' side and take the pov of his family and morepesok in general Why Are People Not Talking About This)

like. its not that i dont understand Why this is sth childe ended up doing as i said Thats The Point. its human. teucer is the only one in the family who wasnt there during that fateful 3 days/months . Like yea anthon and tonia were prolly sheltered from most of the carnage back then too but they still Know where he was sent when he became literally uncontrollable and almost killed the neighbors (everybody & their mom loves demonizing his parents as if his demon spawn ass left them a fucking choice JFEJSJSJSKDKS) . like its at least Known.

but then theres teucer.

And like. teucers the Only one with whom ajax can even pretend to have that delusion (ha) of normalcy and a family that hasnt seen him gaze into the abyss and stare back bloodied and grinning ear to ear . like. hes the only shot childe can have at even playacting some crude imitation of normalcy before Everything and even That comes with an expiration date hes fully aware of. so theres just lies after lies after lies and the fact that even his family just. if not actively partaking in the charade then at least silently allows the entirety of it to happen to teucer whos the Only fucking one out of the loop is just..... dude its not fair on him At All

Misleading teucer THIS much is just. its fucking horrible man but i GET it. thats why its so delicious man i GET it but god its just . imagine being teucer in this situation.... thats his entire fucking World shattered once the truth comes out. Everyone close to him has been lying to him his entire time. They all knew and they let him be misled. Like sure he might be happier Now with ajax dutifully protecting that childhood dream of his but after that. Just. sit on this for a bit. after everything do we Really think teucers just going to understand why it came to be and see it as worth it???? Will he really????

yet at the same time as awfully cruel it all is its just So human!!!!! Its so human of both ajax and his family to use the innocence of the only child that was spared the aftermath of worlds best/worst 3 month abyss training camp to indulge in this flawed false reality where their third son didnt walk into the void and come back hungry for More until only the fatui could take him and even then it only spurred him on further on that path. Like its all an act and a lie and its just. Not fucking fair on teucer but hes still doing it and theyre letting him even tho they Know it wont last theyre all looking teucer in the eye every day and letting him believe like man....

like in both the entire ruin factory sequence And in general hiding the truth from teucer as extensively as childe does hes being incredibly selfish but at the same time its selfishness only rly in the way all people are when it comes to Wanting to be seen a certain way by the ones they love and care about. and thats what makes it so interesting. bc as much as the choices he makes are dubious (or like. this decision makes sense to him. a morally bisexual total omnivore ethics-wise narwhalpilled since 14 who sees exclusively in abyss shrimp colors and acts accordingly) both they and the motivations behind them are also just. So very human ones . as terrible as the implications and eventual inevitable downfall of those choices can (will) be.

like. is it not that much more fascinating to consider all the ways that childe is neither a particularly exemplary nor an egregiously bad brother just one that. Happens to be wired weird in the head and proud and flawed and with a track record of heavily suspect decision-making but that also very much genuinely loves his family man. Like i can love that about him without dismissing the fact that theres parts to how hes treating teucer that 100% can and imo rly should backfire horrifically bc. It really just is that fucked up

hes not a good brother hes Worse AMD better than that and also not alone in this like. his family is an active fucking part of this . But like still . Is he trying his best with his abyss shrimp colored vision ? Yes. Is his love genuine? Absolutely. What are the marks? 3/10 meet me in the office after class mister youre just actually horrible (affectionate) 😭

A perfect brother? Not My Ajax man 🗣🗣 and like theres SO MUCH to explore in that it makes me so sad you just. Never see any of it p much in fanworks bc we all just call him best bro and whatever and thats that like its so sad. this family is terrible horrible awful and no good and they deserve it but also didnt deserve it it was misfortune it was fate it was inevitable . justice for teucer man i need to get him in therapy asap