#I understand not having the platform for it but idk the implications of using someone else’s platform to showcase your ideas

[quosterswampdregs]

Hello! you’re the only person i’ve seen on snzblr with an original species, so i thought i’d ask— I have some half-baked ideas about my own species, and my own snz blog isn’t really the audience i think would be particularly into in that sort of thing. Would u be cool with/interested in me tossing a few ideas at you here on anon about them :D

I don’t quite get what you’re asking, so just for clarification:

By tossing a few ideas are you asking to share some stuff that could be interesting as a new species, for the sake of me potentially turning it into a fully fleshed-out species? Or is it more like sharing just for sharing?

[askandsmile]

hi!! i was just wondering what you thought about the “kj slander “ that’s been going on regarding people speaking about how he hasn’t used his platform to spread awareness about blm and ect. im black and idk how to feel about him. you’re very insightful so i just wanted to hear your opinion if you have one

got this ask on my main, answering here. under the cut for those who care.

look, i don't think a lot about kj other than i think he's a cute, good actor playing one of my favorite characters, i find his tiktoks funny, and he needs a better pr team. that's my approach with the entire cast, btw - i do not know these people. i do not know what they feel or think. i do not know anything about them, they're just people.

i am not black, i am not from the US, i am from a generation that doesn't really understand the meaning of social media in a person's life (i'm a millennial still using social media for... socializing /sobs) and i am not sure if i have a right or am the right person to speak on this, but anyway, but my honest opinion is, and i think this applies to kj or anyone: gate-keeping which celebrity is using their platforms to spread awareness just steers the focus of the main problem. the #blm movement isn't, and shouldn't be, about whose fave said what or went to what riot, but about black lives.

one thing i hate about these big social media movements is how many people use them for clout and to increase their own popularity without really caring for the cause. sometimes people are ignorant on the matter and speak just for speaking, and they say the most stupid things, or raise awareness the wrong way. it's better, sometimes, to keep your mouth shut if you're not sure or educated on what you're saying than being tone deaf. it brings no one any good to speak on something for millions of people in a way that might not be the right way. how many celebrities do you see still using the hashtag? how many celebrities are still fighting for the cause out in the open, now that the movement slowed down?

and, sometimes, when celebrities do raise awareness on something and it's not how much or what we wanted them to do, people claim it's not enough. like, it's a losing game.

besides, we know nothing about this man. we know 1,5% of his (and the rest of the cast's) life so we do not know what he does in his daily life to help the cause. and we cannot control it. what we do know, and can control, is what we do and those in our micro universe. do we donate to the cause? do black lives matter to us? do we speak up when someone is being racist around us? do we do anything? what are we doing about it?

celebrities aren't sacred. they're just people. they're not better or worse than you or me. him spreading awareness - that he did, but "not enough" according to some, while we have no idea what was happening in his personal life - isn't what should have you or me thinking about that movement.

so, i don't think not speaking on #blm makes him a racist or a bad person. he needs to be better assisted by his pr team, like i said earlier, but it doesn't mean anything in the great scale of things. and since i know it's gonna come up, not speaking on the r*pe allegations against his bandmate also means nothing in the great scale of things - do we know about the legal implications of him talking about it, since it could be used against him in the future? do we know what was going on? i believed the victim, as i always do, but we can't be naive thinking that kj saying anything about it couldn't have a legal repercussion - hence why rob did speak (his pr team did) but also didn't unfollow hooch.

it's a long, complicated matter, but we do not know what this man does to help these causes in his daily life and we do not know anything about him other than what he chooses to show us. so what we should think about kj and any other celebrity should be very, very superficial, and worry about what we are doing to be a part of these movements. it does not matter to me what these celebrities are saying or doing, what matters to me is what me and those around me are saying or doing.

but anyway, if you want to follow good celebrities that use their platform mostly for awareness and discussion of important stuff, sophia bush, yara shahidi, and natalie portman come to my mind.

anyway, hope this is some food for thought! i don't want to speak more on the cast other than this, tbh. mwah!

[sonoda-oomers]

alright here i am with another tangent it’s gonna be about how sexual stuff is perceived in Society so it’s under a cut. there’s also a bit discussing sexual assault, nothing explicit or specific but like, watch out if you’re uncomfortable with the stuff in general

(as always i’m worried no one’s gonna know what i’m on about but) my brain randomly reminded me that furries have a bad rep in general because people automatically associate their interests as being sexual. but it doesn’t take much research to know that’s not the truth right, sexual furry art is a thing but to take that as the all encompassing trait of the community is like calling movies in general sexual because sex scenes happen in some.

i think that has something in common with a lot of other discourses, like the kink at pride one, or how minors on the internet form a really weird and unfounded hatred for adults. each of them has their own implications but i see a running theme of like, being unable to disassociate people from the sexual stuff that only makes up one part of them. like sex is really important to people and they fight to have agency in it, but it’s really fucking shitty to consider them any less for that right, no more breath needs to be wasted on that. like just because someone likes moana doesn’t mean they’re a disney bootlicker.

i think in general it comes down to either the inability or the refusal to see people as like... people. like you can’t fathom how they can have nuances to their beliefs and support things in a complicated way. combine that with the tendency to bungee jump to conclusions and shit on something you only have surface level of.

that and like... uhhhh the way society as a whole treats sex isn’t great. by society i mean like the general adults you see on tv, in positions of power, in positions of education, the very visible and vocal and influencial ones. the view they pass down to their audience is that sex is something bad, a performance of power, something that can’t be enjoyed but needs to be done for reproduction, etc. like i’m speaking from personal experience it takes a whole lot of time and effort to unlearn internalized biases and recognize sex as something that can be enjoyable and intergral to the quality of life of people who do enjoy sex and are prepared for sex, as expression of affection or just simply physical connection with another human being. sex is as natural as a need to eat a whole cheesecake by yourself, so you need to know how much is too much and how to eat it without damaging your teeth. and other people might not like cheesecakes or are lactose intolerance, and that’s okay too, but even with their existence you still can and should eat the cheesecake, because it’s soft and yummy to you and it makes you happy.

even if you consider the problem of sexual assault it’s like. i feel like calling sex inherently bad for that is just giving assaulters a free pass right. even when sex is natural to people it’s a logical fallacy to say it’s in anyone’s instinct to hurt other people, that’s just like. Bad. like that’s a choice that you make. like how a knife can be used to cut a cheesecake but someone made the decision to use it as a murder weapon right.

idk where i was going with this. i just think it’s really sad how the conversation around these things have stagnated even when information is more accessible than ever before, because of weird incentives by social media corps and just a general lack of community. jokey insults are funny to an extent, but like at some point some people have made it their full time job to mock and demean other people for things they don’t or refuse to understand, and the online platforms they’re on give them all the tools and enabling they need. we can reach so many people now but how often do we really see them as people independent of our own beliefs and perception of the world that we compare them to?

[templeofshame]

Thanks so much for your thoughtful replies to your anons about Dan's video. It left me feeling a lot of conflicting things. Some of it was very authentic and a little of it hit so close to home it hurt. But then he can be very thoughtless and bad at understanding other people, especially his very queer fanbase. The way he won't be clearer in acknowledging his relationship feels rooted in the closet to me and idk if I'm allowed to feel sad about it, but I do. Like there's privacy where you say "we're partners, but we appreciate privacy so we're not going to share every detail of our lives" and then there's... this. And it wouldn't happen with a heterosexual relationship. I'm glad Abigail wasn't offended by the lines Dan wrote for her, obviously, but he was writing for a big audience and I think he had a duty to be more careful. And on the way he talks about being closeted, ugh. He's had a lot of struggles, and obviously continues to do so, and yes he's entitled to his feelings, but he's written a book about mental health and he's being given a YouTube pride platform. That means he's in some way positioning himself as a voice to be listened to and that carries a responsibility. It's not good enough to state now and then what an imperfect mess you are. I do love Dan, but in many ways he frustrates me. I feel he has a hell of a lot more work to do and we'd all be happier if he had more fun and relaxed while he works that through, before he tries to be a more serious voice.

Firstoff, you're allowed to feel sad. It's a somewhat unfortunate side effect of being the type of public figures they are that their choices have some kind of impact on a lot of people in different ways and they're still ultimatums gonna make those choices for largely their own reasons. For me it's more a little annoyance and confusion, but I get how it could be sad.

In terms of use of platform, it's definitely tough and I get how easy it is not to think of every implication of what he says. With scripted things like this, I would hope he has some people look it over, but it's not like he has an editor or dramaturg working on it and I do kinda think that shows. I get what his intentions are and overall I think the messages are good but yeah, obviously I have moments where I wish someone had noted in the margin how maybe it could sound like he's implying x or y that he doesn't intend. (I may be biased there of course because that's a lot of what I do for money, just not for people like Dan.)

[bi-dazai]

a summary of the whole contrapoints thing from someone who has been spending most of her time on twitter and seen it first-hand throughout

(im using screenshots, some ive downloaded from trusted twitter mutuals and some ive made myself. since i have the shinigami eyes extension and many of my twitter mutuals dont, some scs will be inconsistent. i have checked each downloaded sced tweet to make sure theyre real.)

please dont try to start an argument on this post, im just summarising whats happened. ive already argued myself out over on my twitter and whatever point youre trying to make has literally already been said 20 times before.

Basically in late august/september natalie said some inflammatory shit about pronouns and nbs and “binary transes” which she’d said stuff along the lines of in the past. both nb and binary trans folks have criticised her lightly for this kind of attitude in the past as well. she has a pattern of behaviour (including being very...lenient towards terfs) but the stuff she was saying and the bad takes were tolerable, if incorrect and a little ignorant. what she said this time was basically “asking for pronouns in trans spaces is good i guess but it hurts passing/semi-passing transes like me” which is a take that makes no goddamn sense and is extremely ignorant towards both nb folks and trans folks who do not have the luxury of even trying to pass. she exaggerates the actual effect it has on her as well. basically the entire tweet reads really badly (the discussion was about asking for pronouns in trans spaces):

peter coffin made some batshit crazy takes (as usual) including inventing the term “enby cultural capital” which he refused to actually evaluate on past asking people to read a book (if you cant clarify your point on your own then you have an issue). he started tweeting like a madman and making it painfully clear how hard he will go to bats for natalie despite him being nb himself (many people joked/suspected  that its because he wants to fuck her, same with philosophytube, and honestly looking at how they see her that isnt hard to believe).

natalie went off twitter for a while, eventually leaving an apology that was actually alright and made me and several others believe she would return a little more understanding of trans intra-community issues, especially in terms of class because she has always had an issue with ignorance from that angle. she said she had a friend called gwen taking over (nobody knows who this is nor had they ever heard of this friend, leaving some people suspicious that she may have made her up. im not going to confirm or deny this because i have no clue.)

idk what peter coffin was up to because at this point i and most ppl had officially stopped listening to him but i believe he was angrily tweeting about cancel culture. a lot of people were as well, even though the bulk of the criticisms of natalie had been written and expressed in a mature, appropriate way. some of my twitter mutuals who had been involved in discussing natalie’s past trends with these issues as well as her lack of class consciousness and (probably) accidental antisemitism began to get messages from what was very clearly alt-right trolls trying to doxx natalie. it was real information, which is extremely concerning, but no person published it and her criticisers that got those dms were vocal about not bullying or doxxing natalie. natalie wasn’t pushed away because of “cancel culture”, and “cancel culture” really isnt a real thing and many contra fans believed this too until she came under criticism, which highlights a pretty weird mentality but whatever.

anyway, she came back this week with a new video titled “opulence” which i dont care for watching so i just read about it from my twitter mutuals who did. since i didnt watch it ill only summarise its criticisms very basically. 

to put it simply the main criticisms of the video were that she conflated trans aesthetic with literal opulence and class again, which people weren’t a fan of. she talked about her experience over the last few weeks, spinning it her way because how else would she spin it, thats to be expected. it was mostly just the usual contra, flawed takes and a bit of class ignorance...except for one blaring massive issue which is absolutely undeniable proof for where she’s heading with her politics and her content.

on that video, natalie invited infamous transmed, the guy who outed lana wachowski for money, buck angel, to collab with her. this guy is infamous in the trans community for being a cis bootlicking bigot. he makes kalvin garrah look like a lovely guy. he’s been around for a very long time and he’s very famous for being a massive asshole. heres just a taste of the kind of attitude he carries:

contra has previously spoken up about why you shouldn’t platform bigots. so her platforming a bigot has some very very obvious implications.

needless to say, people were and are pretty mad and very disappointed. a large majority of her fans have been against this.

 when oliver (philosophytube) promoted the video on his twitter many replies to his quote tweet were his fans begging him to be even mildly critical of contra. 

on contra’s subreddit (for clarification, natalie isnt a mod there and im not sure about how involved she is on the sub) there was even a thread created in which MANY of her fans on there expressed criticism of contra’s views. the mods then locked the post, deleted comments, and banned the use of the word “truscum” because it was offensive i guess? it was a move very close to “terf is a slur” territory

furthermore, some pretty infamous transphobes have been in support of her and buck angel in the past, including ian miles cheong which is...wow. some of these are scs from a twitter mutual, but the ones with red names are from me - i have the shinigami eyes extension, so basically any person with a red name is a known transphobe (im surprised buck isnt marked yet lol).

finally, ill put some threads here that give a pretty good analysis and view of the situation imo

[thebeautifulisalwaysbizarre]

I don’t understand how we’re still talking about the spoilers leak... Like honestly at this point who cares about who knows what and why and how? Like how is it relevant, how does it change your life? I don’t understand why we’re still talking about it when the implications of what happened are way bigger than spoilers, and even way bigger than personal info having been shared (though, if you ask me, i don’t believe that. At all. I don’t know any of the people mentioned but i know them enough, see them enough on my dash, to form my own opinions of what they could or not do. But once again, this whatever i’m writing isn’t a plaidoyer in their favor.). I think that nowadays our society, mainly through socials, has a way bigger problem than people who leak spoilers or lie about knowing whatever stuff (which once again, i don’t believe.).  The problem here, at least in my opinion, is the way people, on social media mainly because of the fact that things on the internet often go unpunished, decide when they are allowed to do justice. Justice? How is it justice to expose people’s private convos, people’s name and accounts on every fucking platform, people’s private lives? How is it justice when they don’t get a say? If you claim to do justice to whatever the hell, then at least do it properly. Justice is about balance, and the people you attacked have no way of defending themselves. Justice is, according to the definition of the word (ironical how i’m doing this... Anyways.) : “just behavior or treatment”. Just? I don’t know guys... Doesn’t seem like it to me.  So no, it’s not justice. It’s craving for attention. It’s being bored. It’s being angry about something (rightfully so. Just direct that anger towards better things. There is enough to be angry at.). It’s what Hobbes calls “state of nature” (Leviathan): mankind without law. And, according to Hobbes, state of nature is violent. It’s the strongest eating the weakest. But it’s not justice. So yes, maybe these people shared stuff, or maybe they didn’t. But what i’m trying to say, i guess, is that even if they did, it’s not up to you to decide. Do they have to face the consequences? Yes. Is spreading private infos about someone an infraction to the law? Yes (but so is bullying people on the internet, I reckon...) Are those consequences being exposed on the internet without having any power to do anything? I don’t think so. I think that’s straight up bullying. So, even if you believe it (which... idk... why would we believe someone random like this? Like how is their word more likely to be true than anyone else’s?), it makes no sense to be happy about what happened, or to call it justice. I know what it is to be exposed on the internet for nothing, to prove a point, and it’s not justice. I know what it’s like, and i know how bad it hurt me, and i know i’m still not over it. It’s easy to believe people when they say a crooked version of the truth. Very easy. Please, at least see that the way it was done is so wrong it makes me sick. When i was in middle school, one of my friends had a voice spread about her. And people always asked me whether or not it was true. And i always answered that it doesn’t matter whether or not it’s true, cause even if it is the way it had been debunked was plain wrong and disgusting. And once again, I feel like the truth doesn’t matter. Not really. That’s what happens when the way you use to do something makes what you were trying to do pointless.

“Act only according to that maxim whereby you can, at the same time, will that it should become a universal law”, Kant. Some food for thoughts.

Ps: maybe look up the legal definition of a pedophile before blabbering nonsense, too (”criteria for pedophilia extend the cut-off point for prepubescence to age 13“, according to Wikipedia. Over that, it is up to the minor to agree or not to whatever. The law only covers it if said minor reaches out.). And please, don’t tell me it was just a phrasing. Words have meaning.

We’re facing a pandemic, half of the world is on lockdown, economy is crumbilng, earth is dying... We got other problems that deserve the energy you seem to have to accuse people. It could be very useful if it was used against the right person, and not a bunch of people who, even in the worst case scenario, do not deserve death penalty (or maybe the law has changed, and i haven’t been made aware of it, yo).

[intersex-ionality]

I think you're assuming too much good faith when you're stating that narcissism as a concept is distinct from NPD. Just because you don't conflate them doesn't mean that other people don't. People aren't just calling tyrants toxically selfish, they quite literally demanded #diagnoseTrump (with NPD, to prove he was unfit for office). Many of the "resources for survivors of narcissistic abuse" explicitly name-drop cluster B PDs as well, or list the DSM criteria of npd and bpd as signs of abuse.

Okay, I’ve decided that out of the anons I got yesterday, this one is probably a legitimate attempt to converse. You got the bad luck of being surrounded on all sides by death threats, hate mail, and general chicanery. While I’ve tried to calm myself down so that I can engage with you fairly, please try to forgive my if I get a bit acidic here.

Before we begin, I want to re-center the fact that this discussion was about whether the word “narcissist” should be dropped from the English language.

The “diagnose trump” movement was an ableist shitstorm. And that’s not the same thing as just using the word narcissist in casual conversation. The word came way before the diagnosis. The diagnosis is named after the word, not the other way around. And the word continues to have perfectly valid, non-diagnostic utility, as well as to simply be a common word.

Ableist movements that try to simultaneously claim that evil men are evil because they are sick, that sick people are all evil, and that being sick means you cannot be trusted, therefore anyone who cannot be trusted is sick? They’re conflating a harmless word, a harmless group of people, and massive scale war crimes. Something like “diagnose trump” was functionally trying ti both punish him for crimes, and simultnaeously, absolving him of any guilt for those crimes. It was a chaotic blame-shifting mess than hinged entirely on the idea that mentally ill people are monsters.

And a movement that hinges on calling the mentally ill all monsters, is abelist by definition.

But saying that those movements mean the word must be retired also conflates the word with the group of people.

This is not to suggest that the latter reinforces the former. Rather, both rely on inappropriately ascribing sameness to very different things.

And hey, maybe just making people stop saying “narcissist” would have some degree of positive impact. If you believe that, and you want to focus your activism towards that, I’m not going to be the one to stop you! Do as you like and as you will!

But it is not and will never be what I want to do with my own activism. I have other projects, goals, and actions that I am always going to prioritize over that.

If I spend my time saying, “you can’t ever say the word narcissist because it’s a medical term,” then when someone says sociopath instead, I need to now expand it to, “you can’t ever say the words narcissist or sociopath because […],” and so when someone says, psycho, I need to expand it again, “you can’t ever say the words sociopath, narcissist, or psycho […],” and when someone says, delusional I have to expand again, and when someone says crazy, I have to expand again. I will never stop expanding the list, and it will not only be a waste of my time, but it will become increasingly difficult to impossible for my audience to remember all the fine details of that ever-expanding list.

As such, I choose to focus on other kinds of writing. To say, “self-centeredness is a completely common, human trait that most people have, and it can drive people–especially people with a lot of power–to act in ways that are careless of the others around them, or the others living under their power. So, when someone is behaving carelessly, self-centeredly, that’s worth criticizing, worth stopping. People in power who make the conscious choice to harm others should have everything that gives them that power and enables that harm taken from them.

“In contrast, mentally ill people don’t choose to be mentally ill. And those compulsions can cause them to act in ways that are on the surface similar to the violent behaviour of tyrants and abusers, but those behaviours are not choices. They cannot be approached in the same way. Mentally ill people require the support to help them control their compulsions and to help them avoid situations which would set off those behaviours.

“Where evil and powerful people must have things taken to resolve the problem, mentally ill people must instead have things given–namely help and accommodation–to resolve the problem. Since these two groups require two very different approaches, one should not suggest that they are interchangeable. Rather than claiming people in power are incapable of being decent, acknowledge their choices as fucked up. Rather than suggesting mentally ill people are de-facto monstrous, acknowledge that they simply need accommodations that they often aren’t receiving, to help them deal with the internal stresses of mental illness.”

That way, I only have to make that explanation once, and it applies to every single use of mental illness as an insult. I can link back to it, and move on to other things, instead of repeating the same discussion for every new variation. It equips my audience with the skills necessary to examine any new slag or vocabulary that pops up and make an informed choice about the implications of those words without me needing to make a new bullet point and add it to a list of inviolate rulings. People who look at that explanation, who come to understand it, will make their own choices about what language to use.

But most of them will shy away from using obviously diagnostic language such as “psychopathy,” and will also has the tools to differentiate between harmless uses of overlapping terms, from manipulative attempts to conflate a group of mentally ill people with a group of violent criminals. They’ll be better equipped to understand the difference between someone saying, “my ex-boyfriend was so narcissistic, always getting on my case about my clothes/figure/hair making him look bad, so we broke up,” and saying, “my mother beat the shit out of me any time I did something that disappointed her; but hey, you know how narcissists are.”

For me, that’s more appealing, efficient communication and the more appealing final goal. It lets me focus on other things, like considering angles and details I had not previously considered on old subjects, or learning about new subjects.

That’s not going to be the case for everyone or every situation. Sometimes I don’t feel like making a big old explanation, so I ask the people around me, “as a favour, could you not complain about ‘The Borderlines at Work,’ and instead just talk about, IDK, whatever specific crap they pulled, instead?”

But this blog is a public space. I’m a private citizen, but I make these posts to have a public discussion on a public platform. So I write them for a public audience. I don’t want to ask personal favours of that audience. They have no reason to grant those favours, even if I did ask.

Different audiences, along with different situations, require different tactics.

[captainwhogotthecanary]

ClexaCon: Day 1

Okay, Let me attempt to do something like organize my thoughts here. Photos will come later, ones that come at all; mostly there are professional photos, videos, and gifs available of the noteworthy moments, and I intend to reblog a lot of those later. In the meantime, my photos are on my phone, and the Tumblr app is eating anything I attempt to post with photos.

So. I’m going to try to do this chronologically because it’s how I tried to organize my brain, and I feel clearer than I have in a while. Panel titles or events in bold. Fandom and personal stuff is included, multishipping probably rampant because I just want my faves happy, alright???

Under the cut because long. Day 1 only because long, and because by time I got near the end of typing this, it was after midnight and I was getting less coherent.

Exploring Gender through Cosplay

As often as I cosplay, mine are fairly casual, and I’d never actually gotten a good chance to attend a cosplay panel of any sort with a clear mind. This was pretty awesome, all the different things you can do to change not only the costume but also your appearance, really make the cosplay work. A lot of the sentiment/message besides the practical application stuff was just “have fun, don’t be an ass, think about the character.” All good advice.

One of the panelists was visibly uncomfortable with his cosplay during the panel. It was understandable, but he looked great anyway and still gave great information and asides and personal experiences, and I’d love to see him do a panel where he’s more comfortable.

One Day at a Time

Okay, so one of the things I LOVE about this con and haven’t seen at the couple others I’ve been to is the intro videos. For each of the big panels, they’ve played a video beforehand, about the pairing or the character. If you’re rusty on the details, it’s a great refresher, and if you love the character or pairing, it’s just fantastic to watch. I believe they included these and the actress reactions in the official videos they’ve been posting. They’re great, super shippy, and I’ve teared up or cried at more than one.

ODAAT is one of the ones that made me teary, because it touched on Elena and her Papi and then how happy she and Syd are and just...

Emotions, y’all. I’ve got them.

Anyway, it was great. Isabella seemed pretty comfortable speaking, very aware of her presence and her platform. Sheridan was a little more like Syd, a little awkward and a lot geeky (like most of my favorite people, let’s be real). My takeaways from this panel were basically just that they both love Schnider and working with his actor, and that I ship Syd and Elena even harder now.

An executive producer got a call during the panel, and Isabella thought maybe it was about being picked up by a different network, but it ended up being Rita Moreno calling in, which was fantastic except how disappointed Isabella was. Not that she was unprofessional or pouty or anything, just there were a few moments of almost being able to FEEL how much this cast wants the show to keep going, and how much they love each other.

Avalance

Omg. I mean, okay, if you’re following me, you should probably go watch both Avalance and Nyssara panel videos. They’ll do a much better job of relaying anything factual than I will, so I’m mostly focusing on my reactions.

My reactions started with that damned intro vid, because holy hell, Sara and Ava are hot, and have awesome chemistry, and they’re both smart and strong and amazing and I am so, so, so not straight.

Uh. Where was I.

Highlights for me, in no particular order.

Okay, usually celebs look like people in real life, like real people or like their characters. Caity Lotz is MORE attractive in person than she is on tv. HOW THE FUCK IS THAT EVEN POSSIBLE

Jes is kinda amazing as a person and actress and I intend to watch everything she’s in after this weekend. She cares deeply, which I know she shares with Ava, but unlike Ava who hides behind the professional shield, Jes just seemed so warm and real and disbelieving of how much people like her. She was having a very emotional day because she’d lost someone she cared about, and when she shared that, I doubt there was a dry eye in the room. The depth of her feeling was almost palpable.

Jes kept reaching out and touching Caity, who was much more physically reserved just in general. Caity is very obviously more familiar with the con circuit, which doesn’t mean she doesn’t care or anything! Just, how many of these could any living person do while still caring deeply and genuinely about every person they talk to? I suspect people have to distance themselves some eventually. Caity wasn’t cold, just more reserved.

Katrina interrupting was the best thing ever. It’s been giffed already. Go find it.

I loved hearing about the tango, about navigating a situation where there are two women who naturally want to take the lead. The lines blurred between where they were talking about themselves as actresses navigating a scene and their characters as people navigating a relationship, and it felt very real and lovely. Hilarious, too, because of course everyone in the Arrowverse (excuse me, Beeboverse) is gorgeous AND smart AND funny.

I’m glad they’re not really broken up I guess? The actresses seemed a little unsure because they filmed a lot of different takes with some differing implications, but they’re not on board with the “on again, off again” thing any more than I am, which is good. On is good.

End of the panel, people sitting behind us (oh! chronological order! I made a friend waiting in line for the ODAAT panel and we’ve mostly stuck together this weekend. She’s not LGBT and hasn’t watched any of the shows but she loves PEOPLE and is trying to learn and has had a lot of cool life experiences. Anyway. If I say “we” or “us” I probably mean me and friend, unless otherwise specified.)

Uh. Right. So. The people sitting behind us were like, “Hey, do you two want tickets to Cocktails for Change?” At first I thought she was trying to sell them, and I already knew I couldn’t afford that, just like I couldn’t afford the Caity/Jes/Katrina photo op I wanted (not complaint, just statement of fact! I got to go and I got to buy the photo op with Caity and I got a hotel room for a couple nights). Then she clarifies that she and her person (I’m gonna go with that when relationship isn’t clear. But oh, the number of happy wlw couples there was just amazing, and at some point I defaulted to assuming anyone there together was together, which wasn’t accurate, but it’s what I was seeing and delighting in and WE NEED MORE REPRESENTATION and omg keep a single train of thought, Kita). The two of them had bought two extra tickets they couldn’t use, couldn’t refund, and hadn’t been able to sell, so they were offering them to us so that somebody would enjoy them.

OMG. Like, who does that? What level of awesomeness to gift two separate $250 tickets to complete strangers??

I helped friend navigate the transfer process and helped her create an eventbrite account, and then we had the tickets, at which point I actually believe it was happening. And then AND THEN

Because clearly that wasn’t enough

they said “oh, we can’t make the trio photo op today, do you want it?”

Do

Do I

DO I

I still can’t believe they were for real, with that level of awesome. I checked like probably way too many times to make sure they were SURE because

yeah. Made my entire year, at minimum. 

Photo Ops

Got the photo op with Caity first. I’ll do pics separately after I scan them; they’re particularly glossy or something and my cell phone is doing a horrible job. So I go in dressed in my femme Snart cosplay, have enough presence of mind to ask (or point? I may have only managed pointing) to stand on her right side because I wanted to be able to hold the cold gun in my right hand.

“Hey, Cold,” she said to me.

HEY COLD

SHE RECOGNIZED WHO I WAS DRESSED AS OMGGGGGG

and did I mention fucking gorgeous beyond belief and amazing to boot? 

Anyway. She’s also smiling much bigger in my pic with just her than in the next one, when I didn’t have my gun, and I like to think it’s because she still thinks fondly of snart. Captain canary 4eva. Another thing on Saturday I’ll get to in my next post, equally small but equally “omg yessss she still ships it” to my mildly obsessed brain.

Obviously, after they took the pic, I walked blindly in the wrong direction and would’ve walked smack into the makeshift wall if the volunteers hadn’t steered me in the right direction. I don’t usually get star struck, but if it was going to happen, it was going to be with Caity Lotz, so it wasn’t actually a surprise.

Round two, trio photo, and I ended up between Caity and Katrina, who draped herself on my shoulder as she often does for pics. I’ll get to Katrina more for Day 2, but she just seemed very at ease, maybe the most comfortable person in any given room.

After photo ops I practically ran back to my car while still trying to recover, checked into and got settled into my hotel room, changed shoes (omg, as good as those boots are for a couple hours, after ten hours and two miles and lots of standing, my feet STILL hurt day+ later), and then headed back to the venue.

Cocktails for Change

So this was cool just to exist in a room with the celebrities (the theory behind the event and the price tag being you get to interact). We (friend and the people who gave us the tickets and a 5th potential friend we picked up while waiting in line) got to talk to an actress from Wynona (which I apparently badly need to watch. my to-watch list doubled this weekend), and then friend got Jes to agree to come over. That made me love Jes even more because her handlers kept trying to get her to go a different direction after she talked to one table for like half of the time, and Jes pointed at our table, strong and confident and I AM DOING THIS BECAUSE I SAID I WOULD.

I mean, idk what she actually said, but that was her not-subtle body language.

It had to be terribly frustrating for the handlers, who, even though they only got her to three tables total, did a better job with her than they did with most of the celebs. However, I wanted to applaud Jes.

Most of the celebs kept to themselves, or to their partners. Dot was like 5 feet from me for a good 20 minutes, and my inner gleek was ecstatic. Amber Benson was only a few feet farther for about the same amount of time. For her, I actually tried to go say hi, but she was absorbed in conversation with someone else and I didn’t want to interrupt. We made eye contact, though, so that was cool. Katrina, meanwhile, kinda starting circling and then was just like “Nah,” and she went and sprawled on a chair at the side of the room, again the most comfortable looking person there, and just let everyone come to her. Which, honestly, probably would be my recommendation if they change things for this event next year. Clearly, steering the talent to different tables isn’t working, so maybe steer the attendees instead.

Still, it was awesome, and I went back to my room and freaked out about OMG HOW IS MY LIFE THIS AWESOME before crashing hard.

Which I’m gonna do again now. Day 2 post tomorrowish.

[misterbitches]

here’s what confuses me. we are on a public platform and people are posting things, tagging them, and even just perusing. ostensibly to be heard and get engagement. that’s how the internet works and what it encourages. so when people put something out there especially when they make it localized (? is that a right word) for access, why is the critique or response, even if it’s unfavorable, now a problem? we put it out there and it exists, if someone stumbles upon it why wouldn’t they engage? otherwise, why bother with all this output? i mean not many people read my posts but it’s a good thing for me to have them because what i do write it helps me understand the world better and something mainstream in ways it could be better and what could be done to get away from it. helping understand the context and history of the problems i am seeing on screen in many diff ways. but i do make it seen for a reason. i have drafts or posts privately that are just for me that i don’t think others should see so that means i do not want that engagement and i am closing it off. 

it isn’t like people can’t see it and respond if they so choose  bc this is basically a tacit agreement of having this in public. so if you have an opinion and someone disagrees why would that be hard for you if you are the one who put it out there? we know how this website works and how the web works. do we just want to hear what we agree with or even just know? otherwise i wouldn’t know shit. even with my best friends we try and come to a form of understanding and get on the same page or ask questions. i don’t get upset when they say, “no, because” or introduce a new perspective and this happens with the people i am closest to. so on a public place what else would we get? we allow ourselves to be seen...

i don’t think i have blocked anyone but i know people have blocked me and it has been for probably me being annoying but still fairly innocuous when i reply with a critique or make a joke. you take this risk posting it every time. but i dont want to block people because they could be of value at some point even if i want nothing to do with them. but every time it so happens that i say something even a little off from what this person wants—and it’s generally when i go into things in detail—they shut down from the perception that i am being hateful or accusatory or unfair? even when i try de-escalation tactics or being like “calm down” (not that explicitly) so these seem to be very emotional responses to not hearing exactly what we want and knowing there’s objection when there should be anyway. even if pieces are damn near perfect there’s still something. i find it very hard to believe that there’s intense pain enacted on others for liking “unsavory” things when the “unsavory” is the mainstream and it is necessary to uphold these things and for capital to continue to produce what it does. you’re not different when you accept it into your life either critically or uncritically because that is the norm. so when people are knocking the norms, tropes, whatever it’s like a shock every time and like someone is telling you not to enjoy it. but, again, we put this shit out there and want a response so it cannot be just what we want to hear. i hate that i hate the idea that wanting a  work to be better and seeing shit critically even as a leftist or whatever is oppressive and limiting other ppl when it is in no way the same or even on par with being silenced in general because of the garbage you find in a work. you will still be the minority and it will still be popular so there’s a false sense of superiority put onto others who disagree by the ones who feel “attacked” or like they can’t defend themselves or whatever. and who fucking says? if some random says so like oh well man. you cannot compare it to the real shit these fans do and the massive fanbases they have and the shunning they love to do then feel as if they are priority in feelings.

 they say everyone is sensitive and not able to think about things with nuance but it’s the opposite most times. you aren’t and when someone pops up with it or even says something offhanded cos they dont feel like having a huge discussion that is not the same as pushing others down. there is no majority saying this is wrong and we don’t want it; there’s a majority dedicated to defending it, their choices, and frankly the false sense of even light persecution. especially as adults but in fandom you’re not encouraged to act as a fully fleshed out person for a majority reasons and esp in a fandom that will skew younger. they are reliant on rabid fans or uncritical ones and i have demonstrated that constantly and given quotes etc. we should talk about discourse and what the private owes to the public, what the state owes its viewers, what artists owe the people tuning in. we should talk abou tfreedom of speech forreal and what that means but if we go deep into that you’ll unveil more things you dont’ like how people absolutely rally against this shit and want nothing to do with it. if you don’t want to think about that that is fine but it doesn’t mean others won’t say it.

idk like it may seem insensitive but i dont like the idea that a person pointing out things that are gross or micro or macro agrressive or what the fuck ever is the ruler over the discourse and how people interact with the work when frankly that just isn’t the case in the pattern of the work that people do and utilizing fans and using capital to defend yourself and recreate industry. you may not like to hear that it’s all bullshit but people will say so and it holds not even close to the same weight that the tacit agreement in indulging can sway  us towards not great perceptions. the harm of pointing things out, or being rude, or whatever is not the same as what fans will do to those people and the obfuscation of the real fucking issue. 

now it’s no longer about the problems in itself but the way people are receptive to the way others respond when they have a problem with the very real and prominent problem. now there’s no interest in engagement or even seeing people who may have more to say to it. if we think constantly about defending our right to like a work then the work takes ona life of its own and it latches on to your emotions even more it’s so fucking silly bc it’s like....this shit isnt for us anyway and if it’s gonna be here we should make it better and talk about it but it’s not about that it’s not about the rapes it’s not about the culture it’s about personal feelings which is why it becomes about how we talk about it as if things that ever skew to the left or focus on liberation would ever be the most popular. since when did saying this is fucking bullshit, this shit sucks, this real “crime” means nothing because it’s just entertainment yet you must find ways to defend your right to see that entertainment. it makes no sense no one is talking about that we’re talking about the ins-and-outs of storytelling and the toxicity and nature of these REAL PROBLEMS THAT ARE PROBLEMS SINCERE PROBLEMS as in there is no negotiation in wrong or right because it is wrong in every sense it’s what you do with that wrongness and what the fuck you want to say. it’s not about what i say about them being fucking shitty about the way they say it. dont focus on the way i dislike it focus on what the fuck im saying man bc this shit is disingenuous and it COMPLETELY eclipses the issues and attitudes and it lets these fucking idiots off the fucking hook for making straight up garbage like not even in a sociopolitical way just thoughtless drivel sometimes. like most times i dont even hate the villains in these shows or the men who are o dark and fucked up but we still got to like them it’s literally like “no nigga like why r u here tho?” what do u fucking add. you’re dead space and they let us know it’s dead space by saying “oh man isn’t life SOOOO complex dont think about it just think about him being a nice rapist okay guys even tho we are gong to do NOTHING ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to establish fucking any of that” 

this is what people said for tharntype and it’s what they say about fucking everything whether it’s about gay shit or not. good example is the star wars fans with that guy and that girl or wahtever in that stupid racist franchise. just clamoring to make sure we know you’re good and that you’re okay for thinking that way when no one says you aren’t. but if something is presented then expect to get a fucking response especially abut what it is about at its fucking core. enough of the bullshit about misunderstanding and acknowledge it’s about your comfort in your interests and not having that questioned or antagonized in a way that may implicate you are a bit complicit but fucking all of us are as consumers. you arent hurt for having an opinion that seems to not go with the flow but is certainly part of the status quo. the world relies relies on harm, in a way it is reliant on rape, and that permeates through us and always takes precedent. additionally, again, this shit is mad patriarchal so it does a disservice to us as well as women cos it’s like. no man that’s born out of misogyny actually. what can we do? well, dont rely on the state. but if you dont rely on the state then will you make real money? not the money we’re talking here with the genre in itself. to me that means they dont have an interest in showing different types of lives they have a majority interest in showing “attractive” “conventional” men kissing and making bank.

[gotgifsandmusings]

My idiocy, reading lenses, and GRRM

So, I was away all weekend with family things. But as I said, I wasn’t able to stop thinking about my most recent podcast and the feedback I’ve received in reblogs, @’s, my inbox, direct messages, and replies. Which like, an absolutely sincere thank you for anyone who took the time, in whatever capacity.

For anyone who doesn’t know, Julia and I recorded a UBS episode called “is GRRM literal garbage,” which we were using as a platform to talk about the flaws of ASOIAF, while sort of being playful about the way that online dialogue puts things in such, you know, black and white terms. People are perfect or they’re toxic and garbage, right? And because of that, there are a lot of times where we feel—or really where I feel, cause it’s just my own thoughts I’m vomiting here—like content creators who at least like, *try*, really do receive unfair criticism.

But yeah, most of the feedback we got was very negative. Particularly, Julia and I—we’re two white women, and we recorded a segment on racial portrayals and racism in ASOIAF, since there are so many problems on this front that we felt disingenuous not doing it. We made sure to call out how we are white before entering into this discussion, and also said something like, ‘hey, if we miss something or if you disagree with us, please tell us so we can engage, because we are limited by our own lack of experiencing racism.’ (And anti-semitism is...not at all of the same vein; nothing pisses me off more than when white jews try to distance ourselves from our racial privilege, to be honest).

Well, not surprisingly at all, we missed stuff! Because of course we fucking did. And it wasn’t just that, but we also put ourselves in a position of saying, “oh we’re apologetic of Martin” and then trying to like...come up with reasons for what are obvious problems through the lens of intent or some shit, which is just...so not what should do ever. Hell, it’s not what we should do with any topic, let alone one where we’re entering into the conversation from such a place of privilege. So yeah, we missed stuff and we sounded like we were apologizing for racism which is not only not our place, but not even what we set out to do.

This wasn’t unique to the problems of racism in ASOIAF either; I received a lot of asks saying that it really felt like I was trying not to let my lens of Martin be challenged. And really ruminating on all this the past few days...there’s a ton of truth to that. Which is a bit silly, because I never exactly thought myself as holding Martin up in the first place—just what I got out of these book series. So what was it I was resisting?

It was Gretchen ( @gnelliswriter ) who ended up framing everything to me in a way where these things that were concatenating—all this criticism that I trying to absorb and understand, finally clicked. Because she talked about the balance of the 3 lenses: Doylist, Watsonian, and Reader Response. Which is also like, viewer response and gamer response, of course.

When she said this, it was just like...“Oh.” Because, Julia and I focus a ton on Doylist vs. Watsonian, you know? Watsonian being a character-level analysis, like “Cersei did this because she was feeling X.” Doylism then looks at what the author is trying to say. “Martin had Cersei do this because he was making a point about Y.” Julia’s the one who explained this to me in the first place—my background is engineering and I hadn’t done any type of literary analysis until the Arianne reread.

However, in terms of dialogue surrounding media, there is quite clearly a third lens. Reader Response is the *reader’s* takeaway. “Cersei did X and regardless of what Martin wanted that to mean, here’s what the message was that I saw, here’s how I reacted, and here’s the implications of it” (or just some aspect of this).

Which...this is the most obvious thing, because it’s the ONLY THING I talk about with Game of Thrones, right? Like, I say GOT isn’t worthy of Watsonian analysis, because it’s not, but then the series of retrospectives Julia and I do where we’re desperately hunting for a Doylist rationalization also reveals that...D&D don’t really have much to say anyway, and they don’t seem to particularly care. Then in these essays, we always go on and say, “Well okay, regardless of that, HERE’S the implications, and they suck donkey dick.” And fuck, I wrote an entire piece on the difference between intent and result, and why results really really matter.

So this whole thing, like... I don’t know, I realize I’m not an English major or anything, but in some ways I kind of feel like Reader Response is actually the only lens that matters? (I can hear the gasps from my academic friends right now.) Or at least, it matters the most heavily, because that’s where engagement is, and that’s where the dialogue occurs that fosters empathy and understanding. I suppose most stories I consume do also foster empathy in some ways (unless they’re nihilistic piss slop), but they’re not ever going to replace the experience of hearing a diversity of voices and viewpoints on something.

For example, with Legend of Korra, which I love, I had zero problems the first time I heard the line in the end about how Korra “needed to know what true suffering was so she could become more empathetic.” I thought the intent was clear, and it was a powerful way of showing someone recontextualizing their trauma and finding a healthy state of mind. However, after reading what many women of color in the fandom wrote on the matter, I understood why that had felt offensive to others, and why it was so uncomfortable to have had two white men put those words into the mouth of a brown, bisexual female protagonist.

So now I’ve like, written fix-it fic of that moment. Because the Reader Response to Korra’s words created that dialogue where otherwise my own lens wouldn't have been challenged, even as a bisexual woman myself. White women simply don’t have a history with the trope of being beaten to “learn respect” that women of color have in media. That’s a privilege, so learning about it was really important. All I want in life is to somehow work towards a world where people don’t feel like shit. The more we learn about the shittyness that exists and try to understand it, the better equipped we will be to fix it. Why *wouldn’t* we prioritize a lens of analysis that can bring that about? 

Honestly, as soon as Gretchen labeled “Reader Response” a third lens, it’s like the clouds parted, and the sun shined onto my own striking idiocy with how I’ve been talking about everything and framing everything (I think we’re going to do a joint piece on this soon). Cause like, it *is* deeply hypocritical—my approach to GRRM compared against my approach to D&D. I say it’s because of “benefit of the doubt”, and that’s a thing, but that doesn’t really explain what was actually happening, it’s more of “I don’t really want to think about this cognitive dissonance”, and it certainly doesn’t help me grow from what went so wrong on the podcast. I was using it as a rhetorical crutch. 

Like, before Gretchen parsed this out with me, I kind of thought a laser-focus on the flaws of a story was just someone being “too Doylist.” But that’s not actually a thing. How would that be one? You can’t try and figure out what an author is saying ~too~ much, though I guess if you only care about what the author’s saying you may, idk, not feel as into the characters or something.

No, what it is, is Reader Response and how you felt interacting with media, which...media is not created or consumed in a cultural vacuum. If I believe media analysis matters, which I do, it’s because of Reader Response. I’m not trying to take “death of the author” to the extreme, but there is a point where whatever authorial intent exists just doesn’t matter. There are impacts reading stories have on people, and on conversations.

So all of this makes how Julia and I approached a podcast about ASOIAF’s flaws all the more stupid. Because basically what we did was read out a laundry list of problems, which are all Reader Response by nature; if we happened to think it wasn’t much of a problem we’d say so (like when I said that I didn’t think Arya and Sansa’s scripting as sisters was sexist, which like...I’m sorry, but I’m sticking to that one), but otherwise the conversation was kind of us going, “oh this is an issue, but here’s maybe a Doylist or Watsonian reason for it.” And that’s...not constructive? I mean, what does that even do?

What should have been a tip-off, too, is that the only time we didn’t do this was when Julia tried to come up with an explanation for Dany’s scene with Irri, and I got really pissed because I just didn’t see any value or justification in it. As a queer woman, my reader response to that was super, super negative, and I had no patience for anything else. Well, Julia and I are limited by our own lenses and backgrounds, so apply that to other issues, and we don’t have experiences where we would get pissed about stuff about which other people are probably seething. But that doesn’t mean the people who are seething should have to listen to the bullshit of “well here’s a point you can consider that makes this gross ass thing valuable!” What the hell do we know about it?

Which, it wasn’t really what we were trying to do, but it absolutely is what the podcast ended up being. And frankly, it’s not like I’ve ever gotten positive or worthwhile takeaways from the way Martin portrays race, with maybe a small exception being the in-verse prejudice against Dorne getting deconstructed within Dornish POVs. That’s just because it even further hammers on POV-bias and shines a lens on Westerosi perspectives in a rather stark light, though I still question its effectiveness. And sure, you can apply that deconstruction elsewhere in the story and assume everyone is an unreliable and biased narrator (they are), but what value is there in Dorne being the only place that actually gets a closer inspection?

And even if Martin is doing something to a point, that doesn’t make it a helpful point or a necessary point. Like, oh we now know Dany’s in way over her head, and doesn’t understand the political or cultural complexity of where she’s trying to rule or what she’s trying to accomplish. Okay, but I’m about 99% sure that same point could have been made with Essosi POVs?? And almost certainly a lot better and clearer???

For fuck’s sake, if we hadn’t had any female POVs for the first three books and people were telling me, “oh it’s to make a point on women’s place in this society,” or idk to prove how unknowable women are to our male protagonists or some shit, there’s no way I’d even be reading this series. And it’s not as though I have any patience for super stereotypical jewish portrayal; it’s just that that’s not exactly possible in ASOIAF. If it were, you can sure as hell bet that I wouldn’t appreciate two goys telling me it’s all for the greater good of writing a...really gross world, or showing how much a character appreciates jewish culture. That doesn’t make any goddamn sense!

Look. Julia and I have gotten a lot out of Martin’s critique of the patriarchy. You can bet your ass a large reason for that is because there’s so many female POVs, not to mention male POVs who are also victims of this horrible setting, such as Theon and Aeron being victims of sexual assault (Theon’s chapters being a much more intimate look), Jaime struggling to define himself in a martial world now that he’s lost his hand, Sam’s trauma from his abusive upbringing, and so on. Julia and I also give Martin leeway because looking at his work chronologically, things do seem to be improving. Which...yay? Snaps?

But really, it’s something @witabif said to me that stuck in my craw as I was talking this out with pretty much anyone in my proximity the past few days: I have a huge tendency to take *my* positive reactions and takeaways to ASOIAF and apply them to Martin’s intent. I think the conflation of Reader Reaction and Doylism is the largest part of that, but what’s funny is I work overtime to not do that, especially with GoT. How many times have I said “we can’t know what’s in D&D’s head,” or steel-manned some dumbass plotpoint of theirs?

At the end of the day, all we really have to judge content creators on are their bodies of work. It’s why I say “it’s the pattern.” And Martin’s pattern? It’s one of a dude who is a pretty skilled storyteller, but also very much out of his depth in a lot of departments. Does he do better than most other 69-year-old white cishet men living in New Mexico? Probably. Is he making an effort to be more thoughtful as times go on? I mean...it feels that way in some places, but that doesn’t erase what’s hurtful in the books now, or what’s ugly, or most importantly, what’s shaping a large part of our cultural conversation because let’s be honest here: these books are hugely successful and have that power. This is why I’ve talked over and over again about fiction mattering. Fuck, this is why I engage with GoT at all and think it’s worthwhile looking at its flaws.

Really, ASOIAF isn’t any different. I mean, it tells a coherent story, so it’s different on that front. And I do find some of the takeaways of the books valuable. I also stand adamant that what Martin does with close PoV is impressive, and he is a gifted writer who can tease out nuance quite well. The battle between good and evil truly is within the human heart, and the experience of reading the books, and then rereading them where you find these other depths, has been one of an engagement I haven’t quite matched elsewhere yet.

But, part of liking something and caring about something means a willingness to engage with its flaws, no matter how deep or uncomfortable they are. Engaging shouldn’t be excusing, and even if I’ve found ways to tease out meaning (for instance, Cersei and Taena’s scene lands one way for me, but not at all the same way for many other wlw readers), my personal reaction and truth is...just that? And I do suspect that a lot of times, I’m seeing something there he didn’t see at all. Which is a tension I should have been digging into this whole time.

Looking back at the podcast, it was a horrible fucking structure for it. I don’t even know if it should have been an episode, to be honest. Because like, aside from just explaining what these problems were, and maybe sampling meta of people who had written on specific issues, there’s not much to add. We can’t proclaim someone to be literal garbage (which was part of the joke of the title), nor can we we proclaim them to be good enough, because...who the fuck are we anyway? I think what we could have done is had discussion about how to engage with deeply flawed media, as kind of a “Here’s all that’s wrong...so, what now?” thing, but we didn’t even discuss our approach beforehand.

I’m thinking about pulling it out of the feed entirely, and please let me know your thoughts on that. On one hand, I think it’s important to not hide from our mistakes and to allow a pathway to grow from them. For that reason, and because I just really want to after taking in this feedback, I’m working on a direct follow-up episode to it for the near future. On the other, I don’t want subscribers still hearing a conversation that’s out-of-balance and problematic, and I can see no reason why the follow-up discussion episode would require the former episode in the feed. I’m leaning towards the latter, but definitely value everyone’s input in the matter.

After typing all this out...it’s not complicated: it comes back to me not wanting to challenge my views on Martin. I didn’t. But now they have been, and it has been because of how amazingly thoughtful this fandom is, as well as the responses and suggestions I’ve received. And you know what? Yeah. I’m disenchanted with the guy. It’s not like a lightswitch, but seeing the misalignment between *my* reader reaction and *his* pattern/messaging has been eye-opening, embarrassing, and frustrating. He’s just some dude with a fairly unique approach to genre fiction and a few good ideas; there’s areas where he excels, and areas where he needs a lot of improvement. A lot.

I’m still going to say stop bothering him about writing speed and stop consulting actuary tables, because that shit is creepy. But otherwise, he’s welcome to fight his own battles. God knows he has the resources. I still think I will land in a different place with how effective his scripting of women is, among other things, and I look forward to continuing to have spirited discussions about all of that. However, it’s now with full cognizance that it’s our reactions and experience to the media that we’re discussing, and my own has diddly squat to do with Martin’s intent.

Which I should have realized from day fucking 1.

[winterywitch]

anyway heres a summary of my discourse beliefves:

cishet aces/aros do not belong in gay spaces, bi spaces, lesbian spaces or trans spaces

for me my whole life the LGBT community has been more than that. my perspective is not that of some sad brainwashed child, forced into being more ~tolerant~ than i should be. i genuinely believe and have always believed the LGBT community is more than that, and im not just gonna drop that anytime soon, because i dont think the right to only consider the LGBT community as for “SGA and trans” people is liberation.

therefore cishet aces/aros belong in ace/aro spaces, which for me, count as LGBT.

but not gay, bi, lesbian or trans spaces.

there will be overlap because they are LGBT. but no, cishet aces/aros should have no claim to anything specifically for the L, G, B or T of the community.

for me the community is

Lesbians

Gay men

Bisexuals [SGA or not - as an SGA bi person, i get to speak on this.

Pansexuals

Trans people

Nonbinary people [counting agender, genderfluid, genderqueer, etc. non-cis, non-binary identities]

Intersex people (of course should they want to - the point of this list isn't YOU HAVE TO BE LGBT it's You Can Be Included)

Queer people [anyone who isn't cis or isn't het, including aroace people. non sga bi people im a little iffy on re: them 'reclaiming' queer]

Allies [i think this is important for people in the closet, as long as we dont let cishets get too big for their britches]

Aroaces

and hell, here’s a + to include anything i might have forgotten

aroaces are not functionally cishet.

straight privilege is straight privilege. it isnt not-homophobia privilege. to experience straight privilege you must be straight.

they definitely benefit from not experiencing homophobia. they can be absolute dumbasses abt homophobia for that exact reason.

but they dont experience straight privilege, because they’re not straight. that is all straight privilege has ever meant for me in my LGBT community.

cishet aces are cishet, and also aces. this means they benefit from cis privilege and straight privilege, but aphobia weighs down that straight privilege because they dont perform straightness in the Right way. i dont believe this necessarily makes them systemically oppressed the same way we are. but i dont believe aro or ace identities are privileged either.

there is no coherent Ace Community boogieman that is unanimously a bunch of homophobic, transphobic, racist jackasses, and if you believe that, you are a complete dumbass

yeah, the ace community is comprised of white cishets but, im gonna wager even more commonly, its comprised of literally every LGBT identity and race you can imagine. the ace community is not the white cishet community. it’s the community of everyone who IDs as ace or aro. this is not white cishets as a rule, as a majority, or even half the time.

that being said, inclusionists can say some stupid, shortsighted shit sometimes that is completely ignorant of LGBT history/oppression. i dont agree with the implications that i dont stand for every single thing they say and will not be held accountable for every single thing they say.

similarly, unless you wanna be held accountable for every single thing your side says/does before being allowed to call us out, uh, dont expect the same of us. the onus for this is on exclusionists, i have been around long enough to know you guys started this one. it is up to you guys to start being decent on that one, and then we’ll follow suit. those of us who dont are jackasses.

you are never at liberty EVER to explain to an ace person why their abuse or rape took place. that is called gaslighting, and no, you don’t get to throw a fit when someone calls this what it is. when you call a rape/abuse survivor an annoying disgusting freak for daring to talk about why their rape/abuse happened (since they factually know why it happened and you dont) and then proceed to insist that your headcanon of their trauma is the correct interpretation and theirs is not because theyre a filthy cishet ace (which they rarely are), that is quite literally the definition of gaslighting. and hey, don’t do it.

you are never at liberty EVER to explain to an ace person why their parents forced them into Therapy Specifically Designed To Convert Them Away From Asexuality (which may have a more efficient, shorter name). you dont know how that therapy worked or how the therapist worked because you werent there. you dont know that it was only because of homophobia so therefore this person has no right to claim their own trauma.

not everyone you hate is a cishet ace. don’t call people cishet aces unless you know for a fact they are cishet aces. i imagine you wouldnt want to call a trans lesbian a cishet, which exclusionists have done too many times for me to count. your platform should not be “you said something stupid and harmful, youre a cishet ace,” it should be “you said something stupid and harmful, end of statement.”

for some reason this is a controversial point in some discourse circles, but no one owes you sex. your partners don’t owe you sex. relationships do not equal sex. relationships do not even equal romantic love. relationships are a decision between multiple people on closer emotional intimacy.

if romantic and sexual aspects of a relationship are necessary for you, that’s understandable and okay! but you aren’t OWED that. people don’t need to out themselves as aro or ace for you. people dont need to feel pressured to give you anything they dont want to give. and you dont need to stay in relationships that dont make you happy.

allosexual privilege is not real. no one but white cishet men are 100% celebrated and privileged for experiencing sexual attraction. even white cishet women are oppressed for their attraction in many ways, and repressed from early childhood - so you can imagine how absolutely horrific sex-based oppression is for the LGBT community. we are not celebrated for sexual attraction, we are treated like we are dirty, and we are sexual predators.

WITHIN THE COMMUNITY, yeah, sometimes we are definitely, blatantly favored over aces, and people run around saying asexuality is unnatural, and sexual attraction is what makes us human. this is harmful and damaging, and it shouldn’t happen. i dont consider it systemic oppression and it definitely does not make allosexual privilege a thing.

calling people allosexuals is not something i condone. its not comparable to “cis” as a label, because cis people are an actual oppressor class towards trans people - non-ace LGBP folks are not towards ace people.

intracommunity bigotry is real and it is traumatic. people devalue it constantly and pretend it’s just a slap on the wrist, but it is an absolutely traumatic thing to have to face every day of your life. but it isnt the same as OPPRESSION, and we dont have to conflate the two concepts for intracommunity bigotry to be treated with the seriousness it deserves.

similarly, dont call people REGs unless they are not only aphobes but also truscum or TERFs. i also personally dont really believe in equating aphobes with truscum/TERFs but i dont believe in silencing trans people who openly talk about the similarities, either.

dont call people AERFs unless youre a trans woman holy shit

as someone who was directly affected by the truscum discourse when it happened [not debatable, by the way], this is pretty much recycled truscum discourse in my eyes. you dont need to lecture me on how its not.

just because someone on the “other side” called something you did ableist, misogynist, homophobic, transphobic, racist, etc., does not mean you get to shut your eyes and plug your ears. ESPECIALLY if you are part of a privileged class relevant to that accusation. for example as a white exclusionist you dont get to ignore the concerns of inclusionists of color or lecture them on the racism of the ace community. for example as a cis inclusionist [or honestly, even just a non-trans-woman inclusionist] you dont get to ignore the concerns of trans exclusionist women or lecture them on the similarities between TERFs and exclusionists.

“aspec” is not exclusively for the autistic community and i have NEVER seen claims that it was until ace discourse started. thats transparent as fuck to me and youre not fooling anyone. dont just make shit up lmfao

jokes about how Oh Lol Cringe aces inherently are, arent funny especially considering how many of these Jokes are steeped in anti-autistic ableism

idk when this happened but recently ableist jokes are the new Hot Topic of Comedy and thats like, mind-numbingly bad

i dont care what side youre on, IF YOU ARE USING THINGS LIKE FICTIONAL CP/PEDOPHILIC SHIPS/INCEST/RAPE CONTENT TO COPE WITH YOUR TRAUMA, YOU BETTER BE DOING THAT SHIT IN PRIVATE, ONLY SHARING IT WITH LIKE-MINDED, ADULT SURVIVORS, AND NEVER LETTING THAT CONTENT CIRCULATE OUTSIDE OF THAT GROUP. end of story. no ifs, ands or buts about it. speaking as a survivor who uses stuff like this to cope, being a survivor does not give you a free pass to, inadvertently or not, contribute to the pedophilia and circulation of grooming material on the internet. it is your RESPONSIBILITY as a survivor to not continue that cycle. if you avoid that responsibility, you have no right to play victim or pull the “im a survivor ;-;” card when people call you out on this.

educating kids on asexuality is not pedophilia, grooming or sexual abuse. jesus christ lmfao you dont have to assume people word it in a way thats inappropriate or predatory just because theyre pro-ace. kids NEED label/identity options, they are discovering who they are and without a label that fits for them, theyll likely feel like shit. let them have their labels. knowing about asexuality might greatly improve their life if it fits them!

for this reason, stop being weird about mogai labels/trying to “ban” them from everyone’s vocabulary/trying to turn them into some Cringe Joke that is only about Cishets Trying To Be Special. they didn’t fuck over EVERYONE.

inclusionists, in advising kids and questioning people who ask you for answers, be more open-ended. the insistence of “oh youre not a lesbian you’re a quioromantic demi-homosexual!” without also making it ok to just be a lesbian is what hurt and confused so many people on their journey to discovering their identity and its why they resent the whole mogai thing, fairly so. make it okay to just be a lesbian, or just be gay, or just be bi, or just be trans, while letting people know their other, more specific options.

asexuality is not an NSFW or TMI orientation

ace headcanons arent INHERENTLY homophobic, racist or ableist. they absolutely can be and ive seen that shit with my Own Two Eyes [pure innocent baby ace autistic papyrus headcanons back in the undertale fandom (shudders)], but they are not INHERENTLY so.

headcanons for characters with marginalized identity labels that arent identical to the ones you headcanon that character with are not oppression. and you dont get to police this shit as if its factually wrong

absolutely zero sexual interactions with minors ever, thanks!

trying to Bother The Pure Aceys by talking about sex is unacceptable

posting bullshit in ace positivity tags is unacceptable

stop calling people doing nothing but talking about their experiences “freaks”???

dont engage in the whole Oh There Are Valid Identities And There Are Special Snowflake Identities thing its not a very good look

biphobia is its own thing independent of homophobia

biphobia perpetuated within the community isnt necessarily systemic oppression but its traumatic and wrong and shouldnt be treated like some Lol Cringe Joke

you cant just say UM THAT LITERALLY NEVER HAPPENS???? when someone calls your side out on shit lgfkhghgfh especially when it literally does, all the damn time

ace [IRL person, whether or a celebrity or god forbid a flat out bigot] moodboards arent funny

you shouldnt agree to sex that you as an ace person dont want in a situation that you can control if the sex happens or not, but the pressure to provide sex to a non-ace partner is very real. stop blaming ace ppl for that pressure lol speaking as a victim of coercive sexual abuse, you cannot blame the one who didnt want it, even if they COULD have spoken up.

you’re not a bad person for wanting sex if your ace partner doesn’t. there is nothing immoral about not being ace. you just dont get to have sex anyway and you arent owed it if you are set on this committed, monogamous relationship - if sex is a big deal to you, you need to leave that relationship or work out an open situation.

laughing off peoples’ experiences as The Discourse is completely unacceptable, it encourages people to shut up and never analyze themselves and their identities

its not cute in your ace ship headcanons if the ace character is an asshole that rolls their eyes @ or judges their non-ace partner

similarly its not cute in your ace ship headcanons if the non-ace partner is an asshole that rolls their eyes @ or judges their ace partner

you dont get to tell people “ok you identify as heteroflexible but ACTUALLY you’re [insert identity]” literally ever, i understand the concern with people using “safe” identity labels to avoid facing their LGBT identities but acting on that concern in that way is not concern, its concern-trolling and its not fuckin okay.

legitimizing your own identity by delegitimizing the identities of others is bad

DO NOT, AND I REPEAT, DO NOT, BLANKET-TERM PEOPLE AS QUEER, LITERALLY EVER. DONT DO IT

DONT FUCKIN DO IT!!!!! NOT EVERYONE HAS RECLAIMED THAT SLUR, AND IT IS 100% A SLUR ON TOP OF BEING A CULTURE WITHIN THE COMMUNITY

JESUSS CHRIST DONT FUCKIGN DO IT!!!! WHEN YOU REFERENCE THE QUEER COMMUNITY YOU BETTER ONLY MEAN PPL WHO CALL THEMSELVES QUEER AND HAVE RECLAIMED IT/ARE PART OF THAT SUBCULTURE

we need more nonsexual, non-alcoholic spaces for LGBT folk that are safe for minors, trauma survivors and ace people, but thats not our fault, the prevalence of sexual and alcoholic spaces exists because we were literally not allowed to exist anywhere else until very, VERY recently, and even now it’s a Barely thing

you cant tell someone their experiences didnt happen like my god

we think ace discourse is about more than cishets because exclusionists make it about asexuality as a whole. you guys cant make it about more than cishets and then be like But Ok It’s Just About Cishets You IRrational Crazies?? :/

yes self harm through exposing oneself to the discourse tag is possible, no it’s not funny, no it’s not just ~cishets~doing that, triggers are not exclusive to PTSD survivors, shut the actual fuck up

you dont have any room to comment on the validity of quasiplatonic relationships if you’re not in one, most of the time you guys complaining about them and saying theyre Special Snowflake Things dont actually know what they are. mind your own business lol let people live

if youre not intersex, you dont get to tell people that the intersex community doesnt wanna consider itself LGBT, so they are wrong for saying intersex people are allowed to consider themselves LGBT. youre not being a good ally. sit down, shut up and let intersex people talk amongst themselves.

[to be added to at some point im sure]

asexuals STOLE dragons from CHILDREN to make themselves seem PURE AND INNOCENT, the MONSTERS