#I think what made Izzy's arc this season so surprising

[creature-once-removed]

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[ourflagmeansgayrights]

i’m still thinking abt that fucking post like it reads like a parody of izzy takes. claiming there’s this deep bond btwn ed and izzy that we never see evidence of but izzy said so that one time so it must be true. berating “ed fans” for not appreciating the true complexity of ed’s character by which i mean accept that he’s a violent abusive brown man. making nonsensical claims about why stede and ed are a bad couple.

but then it gets to “he screams in ed’s face when ed shaves his beard and they never talk about it” which is such an insanely factually incorrect way to describe what happens. what happens being stede shouting in surprise and alarm one time and then ed and stede literally having a whole conversation about it in s2 and stede using this conversation to segue into telling ed he loves him and gaining his forgiveness. like it’s the “they never talk about it” part that just has me absolutely floored bc like. the rest of the post is stuff i would be able to make up on my own just based on other izzy fan posts, but “they never talk about it” is such a objectively untrue statement that it can only be made by someone who genuinely believes this. which then haunts me bc like, when was the last time they watched s2? how many times did they watch s2? how much of s2 do they remember? is the reason they don’t remember this scene bc it takes place during the edstede reunion arc which happens completely separated from the crew and izzy? do they only remember the parts of s2 involving izzy? do they realize that’s only about like… 15% of the season? do they realize what a small percentage of this show they actually think about?

[kaelleid]

S02E08 Spoilers

Anyway I hated it lol

And this isn't just a "my little guy died" kind of thing. I've thought he was going to die all season; that was not a surprise to me. This is about how tacked on the ending felt.

Izzy spends his dying breaths comforting Ed and telling Ed the crew is his family and loves him. And then Ed immediately leaves the crew to be an innkeeper. Yeah, that was a great and meaningful use of screen time.

If the crew loved Ed and considered him family, I'd really like if they would have showed that instead of just telling us. Because what I saw this season was post-Kraken Ed having one conversation with Fang and that was pretty much it for positive crew interaction. But apparently they love him and they're family, okay.

Also RE: showing and not telling, Ed referring to Izzy as his family. I think I could count the positive interactions between Ed and Izzy across all seasons on Izzy's hoof. They've hardly spoken this season post-Kraken. Where is this coming from? It felt so forced and unearned.

It's frustrating how the scene seems to brush off all of Izzy's development this season, moving away from his toxic relationship with Ed and opening up after surviving a suicide attempt, to spend his last minutes focusing on Ed and saying that he wanted to die.

Anyway forget that, it's wedding time! And now forget that, let's have Ed and Stede run an inn with no prior onscreen discussion! The end!

I got into this fandom because I loved Ed/Stede so much. The potential for cracks in their relationship was there from the start; one of their first conversations together was Ed wanting out of piracy while Stede wanted in. I was really interested to see how this would be resolved, and how they'd move forward together. I don't think the resolution on this front was satisfyingly handled at all. But Ed read a letter and they kissed, so hooray I guess. Why would you ever need to talk anything through and build a solid foundation before living together? It's not like we saw this analog literally go up in flames a few episodes ago.

There was such an odd juxtaposition of spoon-feeding the audience with flashbacks to explain what was going on for obvious things, and then also expecting the audience to do all the legwork for important relationships. What's the relationship between Jim and Oluwande? What made Stede finally decide to leave piracy behind for Ed in S2E8 vs S2E7? Why, according to an interview, is Frenchie apparently captain now instead of Zheng Yi Sao or Oluwande? We're not going to write those conversations, figure it out yourself.

Also, Blackbeard the genius, and Zheng Yi Sao who conquered China's seas, apparently can't come up with a plan better than "Wear uniforms and then walk around with a hostage, whose gun we will not be taking." It just felt so meaningless.

The thing that really gets to me the most is how much I loved S2E1-7. I had some lingering issues, but they didn't bother me because I had faith they'd be resolved (at least, resolved to some extent, given a 3 season arc). And then the last 15 minutes of this episode destroyed that notion. I thought the writing was poor and inconsistent, and it threw everything before it into a completely different light. The things that I was waiting to be built upon were never actually in the blueprints. The cracks in the foundation were covered up with bubblegum. It didn't have good bones.

[fuckyeahizzyhands]

We said goodbye to Izzy this season. What was your initial reaction to learning his fate, and how did you prepare for his death?

Con O’Neill: You know what, I’ve been around a long time, and going through those first few scripts and seeing which way the arc was going, it didn’t surprise me. I was upset because I loved playing him, but at the same time, I think David knows what he’s doing, and we are all here because of David Jenkins, first and foremost. So I got it. I made him pay for dinner, but I got it nonetheless. And then it was just a matter of honoring what they’d written. And they kept surprising me every episode. He kept giving me stuff that took my breath away and challenged me enormously. And yeah, if you’re going to go out, go out like that.

What message would you want to share with fans who are still struggling with Izzy’s loss?

That’s a big ask, isn’t it? I would say that I have nothing but love, respect, and faith in David Jenkins. Trust him. He knows what he’s doing. None of this was taken lightly. Trust David Jenkins.

When you were preparing for Izzy’s ending, which scene felt like a bigger send-off — that epic monologue delivered to Ricky or his final words to Ed aboard the Revenge?

I remember the day we filmed what turned out to be a eulogy… We shot it several times, and then Fernando [Frias], who was directing that episode, suggested we do one more take and to “let the guard down,” was his phrase. And I didn’t know the guard was up, but that’s the take they used. And there’s an ad-lib in that take as well, which I won’t tell you what it is, which one it is. But I thought the profound moment would be the death. I didn’t understand at the time that the profound moment was the speech. I knew the speech was brilliant. I knew they’d written something extraordinary. Because they played with the narrative a bit in the edit, I didn’t know where it was going to play fundamentally in the final edit. But yeah, it’s basically written and Fernando gave me the key to get where we went to. So thank you, Fernando.

You mention ad-libbing. Was there any scene or moment you got to improvise or enjoyed improvising this season?

I can’t remember. There was a lot this season. That one in the eulogy speech is because I see it being played everywhere all the time at the moment. So I hear that a lot. There was a lot more understanding of character in this season. Ninety-nine percent of ad-libs don’t get in. The thing that’s not often discussed about our show is it’s f**king beautifully written. And we do a lot of takes, and as long as we get what is written down before we do any other playing around, then we’ve done our job because our writers are exceptional. And the joy as an actor — I’m a theater actor from way back — is when you see some of this writing. It’s just brilliant.

You talk about being a theater performer. Were you thrilled to take on Izzy’s musical moment in drag? I was told you learned the French version and English version of “La Vie En Rose” for the episode.

I’d love to say I taught myself, but no, I don’t speak French at all to my shame, but my partner does, and I have a friend called Jenna Russell, who’s just played Edith Piaf in the West End. So between the two of them, they taught me how to [sing the song in French]. And it was just excruciating for both of them… how I bastardized the French language. And bless him, Samba [Schutte] as well was even there when we were doing the lip sync to the recording. Samba was kneeling down, out the shot telling me if my mouth was doing the wrong shape for some of [it]. I mean, it was that extreme, but we got there by the skin of our teeth. But it’s funny if you’d asked me for a song for Izzy, I would never in a million years have thought of “La Vie En Rose.” Now I couldn’t think of any song that suits him better.

What was the process like getting to find Izzy’s drag look? Because it doesn’t feel like he’s embodying a character, but rather an extension of himself.

Quite a lot, to be honest. Nancy [Hennah] first talked to me about it. The drag was on, it was off, it was on, it was off, it was on. It was off. And then when we got close to filming, the drag was on again, and I just didn’t want it to be a comedy. Not that she ever suggested it was, but there were versions of the ideas for the drag which were so extreme that it felt like a parody. And I didn’t want it to be a parody.

Here’s an exclusive for you. When Kristian [Nairn] and I shot the scene where I discovered Wee John doing his makeup, there was one take of the scene where we ended up looking in the mirror together, and I heard myself say, “Make me pretty.” And as gentle as that sounds, it had a profound effect on me because I suddenly realized that that part in [Izzy] that had never been announced before was wanting to announce himself and to be pretty while he was doing it.

And that became really important to me when we were designing the look. And between Nancy, our brilliant makeup designer, and Deb [Watson], my makeup artist, they came up with that look, which I think really honors Izzy as a character, but also made him pretty. It had a profound effect on me when I had myself say those words. I think it’s probably the first time Izzy has ever said the word pretty — and it was about himself. I mean, how lovely is that?

Izzy went through another transformation earlier this season with his peg leg. Was becoming the new “unicorn” of the Revenge vital for his character development this season?

Yeah, I’ve been thinking about this a lot today because I’ve been asked various questions around this theme. And what I think is lovely about Izzy’s arc or Izzy’s redemption is we don’t change who he was. It’s a version of who he was, who is now feeling gratitude and acceptance. And we can talk about the closet, whether it’s an emotional closet or a sexual closet. He comes out of the closet this season, figuratively and visibly, and every queer person has that story. They’re all different versions of the story, but the relief of the coming out process, it’s life-changing. That’s what Izzy does in this season, is he comes out and it’s had a profound effect on the audience. So many of them have already themselves or want to, or need to, and they let him, our writers let him. It’s lovely.

David had said following the finale that there’s no Our Flag Means Death without Izzy. Would you come back for a third season if asked? After all, this is the kind of show where a character can turn into a seagull, so surely there’s room for a ghost.

That’s a conversation you have to have with David. David is the boss on all of this, and I know David always wanted a Season 3. I would be heartbroken for the show if he didn’t get a Season 3 because it deserves it. It’s an important show. If Izzy’s involved, and if he isn’t, I still think it’s a really important show and it should be given its send-off season.

On a more light-hearted final note, we got to see Izzy interact more with Stede as a mentor. What was it like getting to build that dynamic with Rhys in Season 2?

I loved it. Do you know what? Rhys was brilliant in the first season, but in the second season, he just found some extra confidence and he really stepped up. He’s f**king brilliant in the second season, and working with him on those scenes, it was a joy. It was an absolute joy because he’s f**king landed so beautifully. And to be present with him in his newfound faith and confidence… it was joyful, and I think he’s awesome.

[adickaboutspoons]

Put your tiny hand in mine

So about the "father figure Izzy."

"You're my only family" landed like a sucker-punch with me when 2x8 first aired, leaving me bewildered, disgusted, and more than a little angry. Izzy as Ed's family? Since. Fucking. WHEN??? At BEST, Izzy was a shitty, insubordinate employee whose absence bothered Ed not one jot or tittle, and whose entitled possessiveness led him to think he could control Ed through threats of escalating, and eventually state-backed violence.

But more bewildering and alienating than that one, infuriating line has been seeing the fandom discourse embrace that idea, first with some people claiming that it's what they've been saying all along (I don't want to call them liars, but I have been in the fandom since April 2022, and it was not a take that I saw before the end of s2. But perhaps it was something said on a Discord I'm not privy to, or on twitter or something; I do most of my fandoming right here, and my feed is heavily curated, so there's a non-zero chance that it was a popular take that just never floated into my orbit), then slowly but insidiously becoming the predominant take, with its adopters going so far as to say that the dynamic has been there all along, that it was clearly always the intention of the writers that we read Ed's relation to Izzy that way, and that anyone who denies the dynamic is clearly willfully reading against the text. And all of this in the wake of a pull quote from ONE Djenks interview where he said the words "father figure." *sigh*

So the last time I looked to DJenks interviews for insight into his and the other writer's thought process I got taken to task for poor media literacy and not understanding that quotes can be misconstrued or taken out of context and that reporters have agendas to which they bend the narrative of their articles, and that when creative are giving interviews, their job is to sell the product, not necessarily convey their deepest, heart-felt truths. Which? Didn't love, but fair enough - it really is important to hold one another to account and make sure we’re not just seeing what we want to see, and context IS important. But I also hope that we can agree that if one uses similar or identical verbiage in more than one interview, across venues, with different interviewers, and across time, then it’s reasonable to assume that really IS a what the person thinks, or, at the v. least, a decided Talking Point that one is comfortable being the Official Narrative regarding the creative process. So with that in mind, y’all are aware that DJenks has some v. specific insight about exactly when the idea of “father figure Izzy” came into the writing process, right? (In the interest of not being accused of taking things out of context again, I am providing the date and the venue so you can look it up yourself if you like, the question immediately proceeding the quote, and DJenks' response. The only alteration I have made is bolding the relevant text)

Oct 26, 2023, EW: A lot of these characters have evolved over two seasons, but it seems like Izzy has gone through one of the biggest evolutions. He went from being so dismissive of the others to being a key part of the crew. What interested you most about his arc? Jenkins: You know, I didn't expect him to become kind of a father figure to Ed. I think we hit on that while we were breaking the [final] episode. He's in such a weird position: He's like a jilted lover, and then he's a middle manager who has to work for a terrible boss. He gets thrown away, and then he comes back. He really develops, and he becomes a part of this family. I think the biggest surprise was the extent that he was a mentor to Ed. They were both Blackbeard. They both made Blackbeard happen. Oct 26, 2023, Paste: Speaking of that funeral, Con O’Neill played Izzy’s journey across two seasons so beautifully. When did it come to you that his last words to Ed about just being himself were going to have such an impact? Jenkins: It’s kind of a strange arc in that I knew we were going to put him through all these things, and I knew he would ultimately die. But I think him becoming a father figure to Ed in the last episode didn’t really dawn on us until we were breaking the last episode. Asking what would this man say to Ed at the end because they’ve been together through everything? He went from a troubled and downtrodden employee to a jilted lover to a discarded employee, to someone that is just trying to find his footing again—no pun intended—to actually becoming this guy’s parental figure on some level. And he’s one person who kind of raised Ed right, because Blackbeard usually kills his parental figures. So, it felt right and it felt like that’s how the mentor dies. The mentor in a story usually dies in the second act and then our hero has to go on and try to do it without them. It felt like the right journey for Izzy and a gratifying one for Con Oct 26, 2023 Vulture: It seems like it took being almost at death’s door for [Izzy] to be vulnerable enough to receive and understand that kindness without reflexively telling them to fuck off. Jenkins: Both Izzy and Blackbeard have ego deaths this season. And on the other side of the ego deaths, weirdly, Izzy is a father figure to Ed. It’s such an unusual journey. The character is kind of a jilted lover who then becomes a maimed and discarded employee and emerges from that into being a father figure who says as he’s dying, “You’re all right. Just be you.” Oct 26, 2023, Variety: “To kill a character is such a big thing, even in a world that is this violent,” Jenkins says. “We had to do justice to Izzy, and to that relationship between he and Ed. There is a nice parallel to have Ed treat him so badly at the beginning of the season and then come all the way around to where Izzy is this sort of father figure he doesn’t want to lose — because Ed usually kills his father figures.”

So. I think it's more than clear that the writers stumbled into the idea of Izzy being Ed’s father-figure while writing nearly the very last part of the very last episode. It was never the intention that the character be read that way in the first season, and, as far as I can tell, they didn't even bother retconning what they'd already written in the second season to organically lead to that conclusion.

But, oh my v. dears! Take my hand. Close your eyes. Make a wish. Count to three. I’m here to tell you that NONE OF WHAT DJENKS SAID MATTERS when it comes to analyzing the text of the show as it exists in the wild. You can and SHOULD be just as dismissive of what he had to say about the intentions of the writers as, no doubt, a number of you have already decided to be dismissive about what I have to say. The author is dead! Long live the interpreter! Because, just because it wasn't intended doesn't mean it's not there in the text. After all, Alex Sherman also once said the writers didn't intentionally write Izzy to be racist, and if you're following me (which, lbr, is the only way anyone is going to see this), I think we can all agree that is v. much Not The Case. If you find significance in the idea that Izzy was always a father-figure to Ed all along, and find compelling in-text arguments to support that position, that's fantastic. I love that for you! I disagree, but that doesn't make you bad or wrong - but neither does it make me, or the others like me who were gobsmacked by "you're my only family" and for whom the "father figure Izzy" take holds no water wrong; it just means I have different criteria by which I qualify the term “father figure” than you do, and find the relationship between Ed and Izzy falls short of those metrics. So maybe cool it with the "rip to everyone who's mad about Izzy the father figure" rhetoric? I promise that not everyone who finds the way Izzy's arc was handled in S2 less than satisfactory is a canyonite making bad faith arguments to justify why they're mad they lost their blorbo.

[londonspirit]

ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: Let's start with Izzy's death. Did you always plan to kill Izzy off this season?

DAVID JENKINS: Yes. It feels like the logical end of Izzy's arc. It's heartbreaking to me because he's my favorite. They're all my favorite because they're all my kids, but Izzy is very near and dear to my heart. The season was kind of built around [the idea of]: What's the best journey we can give him? And what's the most interesting thing we can do with Con, who can do just about anything?

How did Con react when you laid out Izzy's storyline this season?

I told him in the middle of shooting because I didn't want him to find out at the table read, obviously. I also didn't want it to leak. He was lovely about it. I called him and said, "Let's get a bite to eat," and he said, "I'll need cake!" We had dinner, and I gave him a cuddle, and he took it pretty well.

A lot of these characters have evolved over two seasons, but it seems like Izzy has gone through one of the biggest evolutions. He went from being so dismissive of the others to being a key part of the crew. What interested you most about his arc?

You know, I didn't expect him to become kind of a father figure to Ed. I think we hit on that while we were breaking the [final] episode. He's in such a weird position: He's like a jilted lover, and then he's a middle manager who has to work for a terrible boss. He gets thrown away, and then he comes back. He really develops, and he becomes a part of this family. I think the biggest surprise was the extent that he was a mentor to Ed. They were both Blackbeard. They both made Blackbeard happen.

What do you remember most about filming Izzy's death scene?

That was one of the last things we shot. As we got closer and closer to it, I could see it weighing on Con. It's hard: This is something we both made together, and his character is gonna die. He was taking it really seriously. Then, when we were shooting, I made him a playlist. I asked if I could play him some music, and I did, and we sat there and we watched Izzy die.

I also wanted to ask about the scene where Ed and Stede reunite on the beach, fighting their way back to each other through hordes of soldiers. How did you want to approach that sequence?

We have a wonderful fight and stunt coordinator, Jacob Tomuri, and [director] Fernando Frias laid out how he wanted to shoot it with [cinematographer] Mike Berlucchi. With this show, we're basically making a one-hour show on a half-hour budget and schedule, so we really have to pick our shots. But the location was just unreal. Everything in New Zealand just looks amazing. We were driving to a different location to scout the lake where Blackbeard tries to be a fisherman, and it was like, "What is this?" It was this giant black sand dune that seems to go on for miles. We were like, "Oh, we have to do something here."

The episode ultimately ends with a happy ending for Ed and Stede: They're starting an inn together on land as their friends sail off to new adventures. Walk me through why you wanted to give these two a happy ending.

With this season starting so dark, I kind of wanted to reward them for the work that they've done and the character growth that they've had. I wanted to leave them in a place where they're really going to try and make this work. I don't think it's going to be easy for them, necessarily. They're both still immature. But after the death of Izzy, we have a wedding, and it feels like we have the kids taking the car, driving off while the parents watch from the porch. It felt right to give them something to balance the loss of Izzy, where neither of them is going to run. They're both saying they're going to commit to each other, and it felt like the best place to leave them this season.

That makes sense. So much of their story has been about running away: Stede running away from his family, them running away from each other. This is them deciding not to run away.

And I don't think it's going to be easy. I think the day after that scene would be very hard. But they can try.

You mentioned the wedding between Lucius and Black Pete. I know that pirate weddings and civil partnerships were a real thing from history. Why did you want to end on that moment?

We knew we wanted a matelotage in the second season, and pretty quickly we landed on Lucius and Black Pete. It seems like they were ready for that. We made up a ceremony and everything, where they call each other mateys, and it was just fun to make our own version of a pirate wedding ceremony. But they really did have this phrase "matelotage." It was a formal process for relationships between crew members. It just seemed very sweet to see that they wanted to take that step together.

Last season ended on a cliffhanger, but this season ends pretty neatly, tying up a lot of loose threads. This could work as a series finale. Do you know if the show is getting a season 3, and are you already thinking about where this story could go next?

I mean, we'll see. We'll see if it makes sense for them to make a third one. We have a lot of ideas for a third season, and there's a lot more story to tell. But if it's not in the cards, I just wanted to leave Ed and Blackbeard in a good place. Instead of seeing them get punished for following each other, I wanted to see a moment where they're alright. And it is just a moment: I think a relationship is going to take a lot of work for them.

But it felt like a good place to end the second season. It felt like a contrast to the first season. If it turns out we don't make any more, I'm comfortable with that being a resting place.

You're leaving the door open for more — but if this the end, you're okay with that.

I mean, the Revenge is now being captained by Frenchie, and I think Frenchie's Revenge would be an interesting place to work and an interesting ship to be boarded by. And Ed and Stede, they're in the early 30s part of their relationship. Emotionally, they're going to move in together and start a business. I think there's a whole other story to tell about what happens when that relationship gets more mature. How do you make that relationship work? It's not just happily ever after. You have to work at it. And that's a story I'd like to see.

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

[jaskierx]

I’m so sorry this is going to be a long one!

I watched season 2 all by myself, without dipping my toes in fandom spaces before I was done. It gets overwhelming, so I only look for fans perception after I’m done watching the whole thing because I don’t want to be swayed in my opinions. Can I say I was a bit shocked by the fan reaction to Izzy?

As someone who was distanced from it, this was my take on him.

I consider myself neutral-positive when it comes to him, I don’t hate him at all but he’s not my fav, and I appreciate him because I’ve always liked the unique energy he brought to the show. He was a fantastic antagonist in season 1, and whilst I like his redemption arc in season 2 as a narrative, I wasn’t 100% sold on it on screen because it felt a little too forced on the writers’ part and frankly felt a little too much like sweeping his past behavior under the rug.

Don’t get me wrong, it made complete sense that Ed’s erratic behavior was more of an immediate concern for the crew, but the lack of acknowledgement from Izzy, after things calmed down, of what he himself did to the crew and to Stede left me a little unsatisfied. He let Ed take the brunt of everything although he played a hand in it. He was aware of how he had facilitated Ed’s spiraling though, which I can appreciate, even if the apology came only at his very last scene. The crew didn’t realize what was happening between Ed and Izzy (Jim saying Izzy was Ed’s friend made me roll my eyes, I get it, but I didn’t like them talking about things they don’t see the whole picture of, but it does illustrate their obliviousness about the situation), and they didn’t know Izzy was pushing Ed’s buttons constantly prior to him snapping. They couldn’t have known at all. I guess Izzy decided to make amends through his actions rather than his words, which is great and commendable (although it felt a little like they glossed over said actions), but the lack of acknowledgment is still there.  

Apart from this main gripe, I still liked his arc this season, he made me laugh, I felt for him at times, and I was bummed that he died. But most of all, I didn’t linger too much on Izzy when watching the season because his presence didn’t feel that big to me. He was nicer, had some great and funny moments but still very much felt like a supporting character popping up here and there.

So, you can imagine how surprised I was when I started seeing so many posts about him, what these were about, and certain things have since then kind of stuck with me.

The one I’ll talk about here is how bizarrely nerfed (as in blander) AND buffed Izzy is in a lot of takes I’ve seen. Like… Izzy is manipulative and twist things around a lot to make himself look better (we’ve seen him do that with Stede so many times). Like when he mentioned Ed cutting his leg off because he said he loved him. I don’t remember those things happening as he told them but go off Izzy. Interesting how Ed pulled the trigger but is considered to have cut Izzy’s leg off himself (when we know Jim and Archie did) but Izzy triggering Ed constantly until he snapped to the point of trying to take his own life multiple times is nothing at all in the mind of some fans, don’t you think?

It’s not a bad thing for Izzy to be manipulative at all, I genuinely think it’s great that he has this trait as a character, but takes after takes willfully ignore that and take his words as face value (but in the same breath ignore when Izzy used the shark metaphor to recognize that he fucked up and deserved to be confronted with just how much he fucked up). It’s such a disservice to Izzy. Let him be manipulative! Stop making him out to be this great guy who does nothing wrong! Is it this much to bear to acknowledge that he does shady things? He’s a pirate! Not a precious angel. That’s one of the best part of his character!

As for the buffing part… I can’t lie, I’m bothered that the show planted the seed that Izzy was the brain behind Blackbeard and taught him everything he knew, especially now that I see fan reactions to it. I don’t think this was what they meant to do at all, but it felt like a way to make Izzy this selfless hero which he never was. I think Stede was trying to butter Izzy up so he would help him, and about Izzy being the brain of the operation, who gives a fuck what Rick thinks? Izzy certainly didn’t take the bait and didn’t give a shit, but some Izzy fans took it very seriously apparently.

If anything, it reeks of racism because in his mind of course a brown man can’t think for himself and needs his white first mate to come up with plans for him. It’s really insulting, and I’m really annoyed when I see that some fans ran with it, rewriting Izzy has this badass pirate when his ego and condescending attitude actually exposed him to be the opposite (being outplayed by Stede in 102, losing the duel on a technicality, but still losing it in 106, being such a terrible captain that he gets mutinied right away in 110). It’s been established very early on that Ed is an amazing sailor and a really competent one at that! His instincts are top notch and he’s a great fighter! I don’t know, this rubs me the wrong way. Seeing his accomplishments brushed aside in favor of making Izzy look better is not it. Let Izzy's ego and rage be an obstacle to his growth!

I don’t know, I feel bad for on-screen Izzy. He’s an interesting character but the way people overinflate his importance in the story and turn him into something he’s not, is sad to see.

I’ll stop there because this ask is way too long already and I’m sorry about that. All this to say, I think the writing on Izzy was a little dissonant in some parts, with some attempts at making him more likeable that were successful, and others that could’ve been less shoehorned. For a supporting character though? I’m happy with what they did with him, just bummed out that his fans don’t really want to see him as he is.

don't apologise for sending long asks. i love getting a lil essay in my askbox have no fear

i agree entirely about s1 izzy vs s2 izzy. in s1 he's a great antagonist. he's in the wrong genre of show, he's incredibly repressed, he gets off on being forcefed his own toe, he has bad middle manager energy, he is the human incarnation of wile e coyote, his entire life goal is to split ed and stede up but he's absolutely incapable of stopping himself from accidentally helping them get together. he fascinates me. terrible person. i hate him. great antagonist

and your perspective as someone who did not spend significant amounts of time reading the worst takes you've ever seen during the hiatus is really interesting! like it confirms stuff that has been brought up before about how for example the season feels incredibly izzy-heavy if you're e.g. me but feels a lot more balanced if you're watching without any kind of fandom-related brainrot.

he's an unreliable narrator. we know this and we've known this from day one. the show makes a point to show us that when he's telling ed that stede didn't want to meet him and he misrepresents what he told stede. and yet the lengths some people in this fandom will go to to insist that everything that comes out of his mouth is gospel. like people just accepting at face value that 'izzy has always managed ed's erratic moods' etc when the only evidence for this is [checks notes] izzy himself making that claim. people will go as far as to handwave and assume that things must have happened off screen in a way that backs up izzy's account.

and your point about how all of izzy's flaws and harmful actions get dialled down while he also gets credit for all of ed's successes is spot on. everything harmful that izzy does is handwaved away as 'oh he was acting in ed's best interests' 'he thought he was doing the right thing' 'it doesn't matter that he threatened ed bc what ed did in response was way worse' etc. and then everything that ed achieves is attributed to izzy having taught him all he knows, having been the brains behind the idea of the blackbeard character. and these are inextricably linked - because in this wild fanon version of the show, izzy is fully responsible for all of blackbeard's intelligence and skill, and he and the crew's ability to earn a living completely relies on ed continuing to be blackbeard, so as long as izzy is supposedly acting with the goal of ed continuing to be blackbeard, he's actually being benevolent and looking out for the crew. even if he's selling them out to the navy. even if he's telling ed that he's better off dead than pining for stede.

btw the way folks go on about the duel in s1e6 is the funniest fucking thing. 'but stede cheated 😤 here's a 20 page essay on why izzy actually won' bestie it's a pirate ship not the supreme court, the winner is whoever the crew decides is the winner. (also stede won based on duel rules so. go off i guess)

but yeah i completely get what you mean. and it's a very common feeling. there are plenty of people who liked canon izzy and really want to be able to enjoy him but that enjoyment gets overshadowed by the amount of shite that comes out of the canyon that completely woobifies him and restructures the entire story to fit around their idea that izzy is the protagonist and a longsuffering victim

anyway. if you agreed with this post please send takes to @canonizzyhours 🌻

[pockyandsoda]

omfd s2ep8 spoilers & rant

originally posted to my twitter acc

i am genuinely so confused by the amount of pure vitriol some of you have towards izzy and izzy fans?? i get not particularly liking a character or agreeing with the way other people see them, but some of y'all are being absolutely disgusting towards others. what happened to cringe culture being dead, huh? insinuating people should be embarassed or ashamed to have a reaction to characters they like - having big emotions about media you love is part of being in a fandom! you're no better or less weird! oooh look at you being unwilling to forgive or accept character growth! wow! so morally superior and cool! just because you dont personally agree that a redemption arc was deserved or done well doesnt make it a fact btw.

ive been watching this season with casual viewers who are not a part of online fandom at all, and they have all very much enjoyed izzy's arc and him as a character, they are able to see the narrative importance of it, as are the writers and the crew. again, you dont have to agree. but dont act superior.

at the end of the day, this is a silly pirate show made mostly for 'haha's, and ALL of these characters have done HORRIBLE things, they're pirates ffs, that's kinda the whole point here guys! and those things are ridiculously easily forgiven (by our standards) again, because they are pirates and this is not a serious show.

izzy fans are sad, some are very very sad, maybe even a 'weird' amount! so? do you really need to dunk on them for lolz? make it out like they're insane for even liking a character that the show itself actively likes and supports and clearly wants the audience to like (in s2 anyway, and if you deny this then sorry but you're being willfully wrong)? idk why any of you are remotely surprised people like this character? starting to think some of you just wanna be edgy and seem sarcastic and cool and superior for your 'witty' twitter commentary tbh.

and of course sending any kinda negativity towards writers/cast/crew is disgusting and pathetic, but im seeing that from izzy lovers and haters alike on my feed, so dont you dare try and make it seem like a pro-izzy only issue here. and y'know what? it's also disgusting and pathetic to belittle and mock other members of the fandom, and im only seeing one side engaging in that behavior, please do humble yourselves and remember the times in your life when you have had a strong emotional reaction to things happening to your fav characters and ships. dont forget that you are also a loser with a fandom twitter/tumblr account.

and for the record, i thought the finale was genuinely good, as was all of season 2 in my opinion. all this immature negativity and faux superiority is making this fandom toxic. izzy is a popular character with viewers (casual & otherwise) and the creative team, who had a decent redemption arc. that is a fact, whether you like it or not. people should not have to feel hesitation about posting anything remotely positive about izzy out of fear of judgement or ridicule. save your cutting twitter remarks for actually problematic people.

im not even particularly attached to this damn character but the way y'all have been behaving has annoyed tf outta me.

[naranjapetrificada]

@chaotic-neutral-knitter suggested "eight predictions for eight episodes" should be a tag game and I could not agree more. You should read their predictions first because some of mine will also cover similar ground and because number 8 seems so perfect but literally hadn't crossed my mind somehow. Anyway here are my 8, which I honestly don't feel that confident about but I want to swing for the fences a bit:

I agree with OP that Ed's first scene will be crashing the wedding, but I would also buy it as the first scene of the entire first episode. Like with some lead up showing how nice all the wedding stuff is. My actual prediction is this though: I also agree that the auxiliary wardrobe's survival will be revealed in the scene we see with Ed playing with the cake toppers (💔) although I think that could be the final scene in the episode. I've made a song prediction in the past for revealing the auxiliary wardrobe but I'm not gonna put it here in case I get it very wrong lol. Rest assured if I do get it right you'll never hear the end of it.

I'm not 100% on this, but I feel like episode 2 will be when Ed goes overboard during a storm. I wouldn't be surprised at all if this is episode gives us all of Ed's Island Healing Journey, which is important but doesn't need to stretch across multiple eps given a) how little time we have in this season and b) how this show handles important backstory reveals, even for major characters. This is where Ed will have a figurative rebirth out of the sea, do some pining, and confront a ghost of captains past that's almost certainly Hornigold.

Unfortunately for the lovely parallel of them seeing each other in person in episode 3, I don't think that can happen yet on the tail of my prediction for episode 2. Maybe, maybe it happens at the very end but if it does, it won't be them running across the beach to each other (because as much as I'm hoping to be wrong, I'm starting to believe that is a dream sequence, which I can talk about in another post/send me an ask or something). [This is the one I feel the least secure about actually, and if I'm wrong I'm going to be very, extremely wrong. If I'm wrong it messes with the pacing of every other prediction on this list. If I'm wrong we'll get our beautiful scene where they run to each other, Ed will have to treat an injured Stede in The Cave, and they'll make up there. If I'm wrong I want to read a million fics about this anyway.]

I think this is when we'll meet Anne Bonney, and I don't think it's controversial to say that that scene we see of her in Stede's lap is just after she kisses him. Whatever motivation she has for kissing him will be something like making a point or proving something, most likely to whoever she looks at immediately afterwards (Mary Read maybe?). I also think whatever is going on, it will be funny because of the spit chain between her and Stede via Ed and Jack.

Anne takes the crew somewhere, probably the Republic of Pirates or following another lead? Or they come across the Revenge, and this is when they learn Ed has gone overboard. Izzy is unsurprisingly not into being captain because it almost got him killed last time, and this is the start of his begrudging training of Stede. Stede refuses to believe Ed has drowned and honestly, maybe Izzy feels exactly the same? Anyway if Izzy gets a redemption arc it starts here.

Ed has been exploring the island or doing some star navigation or whatever, and maybe he figures out where he is and a way to get to civilization again. I know a lot of people have said he's wearing Buttons' jacket in the scene where we see him with Jackie, but iirc Buttons's jacket isn't especially uncommon? Like what if he finds it on a dead body on the island? The camp looks like it's made of a lot of man-made stuff so there has to have been a wreck or something nearby. Anyway this specific part is important to me because what if it's the same episode where Stede gets his fancy red outfit? What if they both get new clothes in the colors associated with each other in the previous season? WHAT THEN DAVID JENKINS?

It would be so cruel for them to not reunite before this episode but they didn't kiss until the penultimate episode last time either. Maybe the previous episode will be what puts them on track to meet The Torturer under whatever circumstances that happens, and this episode will involve how they escape that situation. I think the aftermath of that rescue/escape will be when Ed and Stede see each other again, and I don't think they'll be falling into each other's arms immediately. This could be the party at Jackie's place though, and maybe Ed gets that fond look despite himself and later they get a minute alone to talk and that's when Stede whispers the whole "I love everything about you" thing and its devastatingly romantic and they finally fuck? But uh oh, we need the episode to end with a tiny bit of menace of some kind. Whatever is the Big Threat that's been haunting the rest of the season will be shown to not be quite vanquished yet!

We need a cliffhanger so whatever the big unresolved issue from the previous episode is will come roaring back to life. This is when we'll see Jackie wake up in bed with the Swede. If Ed and Stede don't fuck in episode 7 they will in episode 8, but it will be a much more bittersweet scene because maybe it's a "we have to separate again tomorrow to safely escape" scene or a "this could be our last night on earth" scene. It will be heartbreaking and we'll all spend weeks crying and screaming and climbing through DJ's walls, but it feels like there's a non-zero chance. If they already fucked in episode 7, we might get to have a nice romcom morning after scene as a treat, and to lull us into a false sense of security. Maybe they'll talk about their hopes for the future and be sickening (as they deserve!) before bad news arrives. Maybe the morning goes wrong because of everything still left to resolve between them and like Ed's not leaving leaving but he needs to take a walk because jesus Stede I can't believe you said that. And while on his walk Ed will learn something external has gone wrong because unfortunately, we do still need that cliffhanger. In the second act something has to get in the way of their happiness again, even if they've made up with each other (which I don't think one night can fix).

It feels so naked throwing all these predictions out like this and as I wrote I got less and less confident, especially about the order of events. But if I didn't like pain I wouldn't be in this fandom. Time to tag 8 people to do their own, assuming no one else has tagged you in the 1000 hours it took me to write this up: @saltpepperbeard @epersonae @chocolatepot @let-me-dream-with-the-stars @likethehotsauce @givefangapuppy @red-sky-in-mourning @knifeturtlelives

[amuseoffyre]

OFMD S2 Speculation

I put together a little list of things I think are coming in S2 on twitter, and I’m stashing it here too in case the bird snuffs it.

As S1 was Stede going through his best then worst and figuring things out, S2 is going to be Ed's story

Hornigold. Why else have Jack mention him, especially when so much of Ed's past is shaped by Hornigold and his father.  I suspect he's the villain for S3, but I like the idea of him being there through S2 like the shark in Jaws, finally appearing at the end to ruin everything 

Which leads me into the belief we're getting 3 season. S1 is A New Hope. S2 is going to be Empire Strikes Back, with one captured and/or forcibly separated with an “I love you”/“I know” vibe. S3 is going to be their Return of the Jedi :D (And in this story Izzy gets to be Lando - sold Stede out, saves him (hm. If I follow this train of thought that makes Stede the Leia. Stede ending up in a metal bikini... oh dear))

Izzy is 100% getting a tasty arc, especially since he’s dealt with Blackbeard before but has never been around Kraken!Ed. I also love the idea of him, against his better judgement, acknowledging Stede's bonkers genius. Izzy respects people who *earn* their way instead of buying a way in. I think he's going to see Stede in a whole new light. Stede&Iz brotrip in S3!

This probably won't be until S3 if we get it, but Stede's obsession with fake heads is how they finally get away: Blackbeard's death famously involved his head hanging from the mast of his ship. What if Ed snipped his hair, kept the clippings to made a fake head and escape? (“Our old lives will be gone. Dead” - one down, one to go)

I suspect Ivan is toast. Jim, when motivated by very vengeance, will take it out on the people they know to be guilty. Ivan was one of the two people who was involved in the marooning and is the one who is in the room with the feral assassin with no idea of their full skillset 

Pretty sure that Jackie is married to all of the Siete Gallos and diverted Jim from killing more hubs because she's a cunning old fox who knows how the game works. Jackie's proved she knows how Jim ticks and she played on that like a virtuoso in their last confrontation.

Ed isn't the only one flipping the bird to the king. Izzy sold out too, in order to save Ed, but he seems to have forgotten this now that he's a pirate again. I'd like to see him being very surprised when that comes back around to bite him. 

I am VERY suspiciously watching the half-orange. I feel like it's very important that Alma kept a bit and Stede kept a bit and I wrote a whole fic that involved it. I am suspicious bastard by nature :D

This is less speculation and more desire: I want Ed and Stede to end up chained together before they've had a chance to make-up. I want them to have to escape while bitching and bickering and fighting all the way. Inspired by the Obi-Wan, Anakin & Dooku episode of Clone Wars 

I am very excited. Can you tell?

[salamanderinspace]

--spoilery thoughts about OFMD S2 finale--

...

Well, I am shocked at what happened. With Izzy.

I wasn't an Izzy girl, so it mostly broke my immersion with the thought "oh God people are going to be intense about this." Obviously I'm sad - but to me, it was a tragic and important story about how the British are terrible and piracy is a difficult but noble life. I did like Izzy, especially in this season. I don't think he was out of character and I don't think we were seeing growth so much as his situation changing and his newfound opportunity to direct his talents in a productive and community-oriented way. I didn't love how controlling he was of Ed in season 1, so I thought the apology was probably due, but I am surprised at how it happened. Fuck, I hate redemption arcs.

But I mean. That same controlling streak which made him drive Ed a little crazy in season one is what let him sing "La Vie en Rose" while his ex/best friend/special person made love to another guy. Because that's controlling the atmosphere, no doubt no doubt. And his speech about what it means to be a pirate was really touching and on brand. I don't feel like D Jenks made the worst call ever. I think it was maybe unnecessary but still a satisfying story beat. I'm content with it. It feels like Izzy was honored.

My focus is more on my blorbo, being an Ed girl. His evolution really rang true to me. Like, for me, that sense of "I am in love with everything, even fish scales" is the only remedy for feeling like I'm drowning in a relationship that's too intense. I can't love just one person because heartbreak and betrayal cause me to lose perspective. I think it's hilarious and believable that Ed was a terrible fisherman and his journey with that lasted all of ten minutes before he went back to what he's good at. I love that he's good at pirating. I love him with Stede and I love their love. "Life's a dick" was a beautiful moment and I cried.

Good story. 10/10. Please renew.

...

--spoilery thoughts about OFMD s2 finale--

[lunar-system]

izzy thoughts

i didn't feel at all the death was accidental or without a cause. izzy was the most himself when he told ricky to go fuck himself and defended the pirate way of life without a regard for his own personal safety. he was targeted by ricky's gun because he so vocally and ferociously stood up for what he believed in

izzy dying because he stood up to what he believes in FEELS BAD because it IS BAD in the show's actual universe as well. He died to what is the show's equivalent of homophobia, he got hate-crimed for his pirate life style, ricky targeted him because he stood up for himself and his people – that is horrible! for us and for the characters! in the actual story! it was a sad and unfair way to go! and ricky is a villain who did a horrible thing to a character we love! it hurts! gaahhh!

what hurts in real life is that we were under the assumption that there would not be hate-crime equivalent things in the show. it was a safe show for many. so yeah, of course it's a shock. the assumption is that if someone does something racist or homophobic etc in this show, they get punished right away and laughed at. but this time the bad guy actually killed someone. the violence was real. izzy hands still didn't operate under the muppet rule set. real world violence rules applied to him this one time.

why was this wound deadly when no other was? because this show decides the stakes and accuracies on a case by case basis. right now it wanted it to count. eternal arguments can be had about if that was the right choice or not.

yes, it felt kinda unfair that the show trained us not to fear death. ed practically died earlier this season, and he was fine. it was a weird surprise that for izzy the death was permanent. well. unless season 3 proves us otherwise. a long con. we'll see.

the fact that djenkins happens to be mostly on the same page with fandom, i think that's a happy accident. remember that he was surprised that people didn't dare to believe ed/stede was happening? he didn't know the fandom's long history with queerbaiting. he was just writing his show. it makes sense he would not be up to date with the fandom style politics of that you should not kill a character who is a strong symbol for something in the real world. sounds to me like it was a similar surprise than the queerbaiting one. earlier he happened to play with fandom rules, but he doesn't really know there are that much rules at all. now he happened to go against one rule, just like he happened to go by the rules earlier. he writes the kinda fanfic he likes. and right now he liked the weight that an actual character death has. unfortunately in tv shows there are no tags "major character death" to soften the punch.

could he have predicted how massively popular izzy became with his new added arc? i'm not sure. To some degree you can try to predict the impact your writing has in the real world, but you can't really control how your work is received. with the release of s2 i saw it in real time, the weight that izzy had and the importance of him for many. maybe it was a surprise that the redemption arc was that effective. and tv shows are really, reaaaally slow to make. you have to stick with a decision you have made a long time ago, unless you have ridiculous amounts of money to throw around for reshoots. And once a season is airing, it is absolutely too late to start changing anything. Djenkis wanted an impactful death, and he ended up with a bit TOO impactful one. There's no changing it, I personally don't see a point with fighting it, it happened, it was written, shot, edited, colour graded, composed, produced with care and set in stone a long time ago, and now we work with what we have. Maybe i'm just not confrontational, but I was given this, it's what I have, so I'll find a way to roll with it. Maybe I'll use a bit of fiction to cover the trauma, you know? cause not moving on is worse? Honestly, I think whittling a shark would be a great way to pay homage to izzy. I should get some soft wood to do it.

no end thoughts, just, gosh he was a wonderful character. loved to get to know him. rip izzy <3

[elapsed-spiral]

So, here we are, the end of the road season two. Mostly just for my own benefit, I thought I'd put my initial thoughts under a cut.

The good

Overall, I think S2 is way better than S1. It's a more confident, polished show that understands its own tone.

S2 is so much funnier than S1.

I seriously did not expect them to dig that deep with Ed and Stede's characterisation, especially the MH issues. It's impressive how they balanced very believable, heart wrenching depictions of trauma with laugh out loud jokes.

The Ed/Stede of it all was really well done. The chemistry is still off the charts, the ups and downs are classic romcom, the failures to communicate never feel contrived.

The settings and costumes and music are all so good/better than S1, imo.

Captain Frenchie!!!

The not so good

I think people have tried to blame too much stuff on the reduction in episode count but I think it's fair to say the pacing suffered, especially from episode six onward.

I found the Olu/Zheng storyline pointless and unbelievable. I think they could have given Zheng beef with Stede and the Revenge crew without it, and it's baffling to me that they threw away Olu and Jim's character development in S1 for it. Olu felt dumbed down and uninteresting by comparison to S1, which is a shame.

I think they really struggled to know what to do with Lucius, AKA previously one of the funniest characters who is now traumatised and not so funny. When there was humour it largely made light of Lucius' trauma which feels off for a show that otherwise takes trauma seriously.

I do not get Izzy's character arc and feel like a lot of that was cut for time. It felt like they really wanted him to fill the funny confidante void left by Lucius. There were just too many leaps in his development and growth for me to buy how drastic a transformation he underwent. And now, post-finale, I do and don't get his death. His dying words were heartfelt but hackneyed.

Not enough close up shots of faces during kisses and emotional scenes, which would be fine if they'd lit the damn show, but they didn't, so I often couldn't see a thing.

Overall, the biggest issue seemed to be that they speed ran the remaining plot, presumably out of a desire to ensure people got a satisfying-ish resolution if they don't get renewed. That's a kind ambition but I fear it hasn't worked.

That feels like a lot of negatives but honestly, I don't really see them that way because they got the important stuff right, AKA Ed and Stede's relationship. I've constantly been surprised by where S2 has gone and I'm so impressed by the quality overall. Here's hoping for S3.

[catgirl-catboy]

choose violence 3 6 7 8 9 10 16 22 and 25 for total drama (and i’ve just realized that’s a lot a lot so obvi if u don’t wanna answer all of them that’s all good)

No worries! I'm happy to scream about Total Drama! Worst case scenario, I get tired and simply finish the rest later.

3.) screenshot or description of the worst take you've seen on tumblr

Shipping Raj x Wayne is somehow homophobic because Raj is in a canon gay relationship. Polyamory is a thing, and somehow I don't think homophobes would enjoy the idea of a fanon m/m ship somehow.

Honestly, any time people expect canon queer couples to be given special treatment in fandom it annoys the shit out of me. Someone will dislike the vibes of the ship. Its inevitable. Honestly, I'm surprised that someone wasn't me this time, since happy relationships like Rajbow aren't usually my jam.

6.) which ship fans are the most annoying?

Can I bash the shippers for my favorite TD ship (of Duncney) for a second?

Shut up about the love triangle. Shut up about Courtney's character derailment. Literally every ship was wronged by canon, we aren't fucking special. A vast majority of the ship tag shouldn't be bitching about canon.

7.) what character did you begin to hate not because of canon but because how how the fandom acts about them?

...honestly, thats a hard one. I feel like hate is a strong word, but I don't understand the hype for Noah. (and any Noah ship that isn't Nowen or Noah x Emma.)

Like, sure. He's sarcastic. So what. That makes him a 5/10 at best. He never does anything but be sarcastic and then be mindlessly in love.

I don't hate him though.

8.) common fandom opinion that everyone is wrong about

lean in. come closer, I don't want anyone else hearing this.

Dramarama is good. and funny. and I like it. Why is it despised?

9.) worst part of canon

The fart jokes are low hanging fruit, so I won't pick them.

I hate how everyone in gen 1 had to be coupled up. What relevance Izzy/Owen have on the season as a whole? Or Geoff/Bridgette? (I like them but point still stands.)

If you introduce a canon couple and get me invested in the romance, it has to actually go somewhere. Lyler was a plot device to get you to hate Heather. Duncney went through an entire arc. Gwent was amazing.

Why do no other ships bring that energy?

I love Samkota, but Sam was just a trophy husband for Dakota after her mutation. He's a passive participant in his own romance arc.

Gens 3 and 4 improve on this I think, but it still annoys me.

10.) worst part of fanon

this is incredibly petty and personal, but WHY IS CODY EVERYWHERE? He squicks me. So much. (honestly, the fact that he reminds me of a past experience when most creep characters don't proves that he feels like a real person. but no.) Why is half the fandom Cody. Can it not be?

16.) you can't understand why so many people like this thing (characterization, trope, headcanon, etc)

I answered this before and I said Lesbian Emma. Now, I'm going to go with Gwortney. These two could barely sell and interesting friendship, and somehow you expect them to carry an entire romance plotline? Its the most bland of bland ships. If you want a Sapphic way to resolve the despised love triangle, Gweather is right there. They actually have chemistry.

It feels like they took all of Duncan's hard work of getting Courtney to relax and enjoy life, and made Gwen have the same effect on her when it doesn't make sense with the characterization. If anything, Courtney making Gwen be more serious makes sense.

(that being said, I'm glad you are having fun, and will reblog cute art.)

22.) your favorite part of canon that everyone else ignores

The episode recaps. I want Chris to recap my day. I love them.

25.) common fandom complaint that you're sick of hearing

Other than the love triangle?

Heather's plot armor.

Owen had just as much, if not more plot armor. He makes the group sleep in the woods? Fuck it, Katie and Sadie get lost.

Single-handedly blows the cooking challenge? Uh... (Total Drama writers thinking up Bullshit) Beth and the Statue pisses everyone off more, somehow!

He betrays the guys alliance? This has no concequences for him.

At least Heather's plot armor didn't cause her to win a season.

[louis-quatorze]

Our Flag Means Death S2

oh, we all have opinions, don't we? this is a recap/reflection post, so you know, spoilers ahead and all.

In general, I enjoyed the season, which was not a given - I was sort of trepidatious going on, mostly because I wasn't sure what leaning into fandom would end up being like. On that point, pleasantly surprised! Will come to that point later.

However, it definitely had its flaws. I do feel that these flaws mostly emerge from that the season was clearly too short for all they wanted to do with it, though. Eight episodes of less than half an hour for them to bring everything back together and wrap it up? Not really possible, which was a shame. What I'm left with is a feeling of how much I liked the bones of the season, and some particular things about it, but with a feeling of "oh, this could have been better."

Izzy's arc, for example. In broad strokes I'm in favor of it, I think it was entertaining and even moving in parts (I liked Izzy calling him Eddie at the end), but it was so rushed through that the change didn't quite hit the way it should have. Some more episodes to draw it out, to see him go from "guy who'd sell out the crew easily" to "guy who joins in the drag party" would have sold it better and given it the impact I really wanted.

We see this with a lot of the show's elements - the crews coming back together, Zheng as helper/antagonist, Prince Richard as an Evil Stede, even the sort of goofy shenanigans that are what made the show so fun in the first place. There's not enough time in the series' run to have it all work as well as it could have. To the show's credit, though, I'm inclined to blame Max rather than the writing team. I respect their ambition in trying, I like the bones of what they were doing, I wish they could have the time (and money) to have done it properly.

What it has done (mostly) well this season, and has always done well, is its sense of character. Stede's a remarkable work, at once cartoonish and fully believable. I particularly loved his episode 7 shift from "for the first time in my life people like me" to "lashing out because the default of them not is coming back." I wish there could have been more done here! But alas, cost-cutting.

My exception to this was whatever was going on with Oluwande and Jim, which seemed to have nothing to do with their first-season journey and mostly seemed confusing. Would more episodes have helped with this? Couldn't have hurt, if only to have their relationship make sense and flesh out their characters a little more. I'm still not sure I would have liked it, though.

It's a shame because what's interesting about the show is how much focus it has on relationships. Clearly what they decided to prioritize is the central Ed/Stede relationship, and that more or less all works here. Of course I want to see them together. Of course I want to see them happy. It feels like fanfiction in a positive sort of way, engaging with similar tropes and pressing the central relationship in similar ways. It's got almost enough room to develop properly, and, of course, ends with the pastoral fantasy fanfiction likes to end with. (Do I feel it really suits them both now? Well. I don't think they're counting on a third season, at least.)

There is a tension in choosing to have the show's focus be that relationship, between doing what the fandom wants in developing this middle-aged queer relationship in a sensitive fashion, and the absurdist, sadistic humor that is also at the show's heart. The biggest laugh I had was Lucius' recitation of the horrible things that happened to him, the way it escalated and the deadpan-dramatic delivery was just outstanding. (Nathan Foad's twitchy, chain-smoking, overly dramatic Lucius was a delight the whole season.) At its funniest, OFMD is violent and mean and callous, and that really works for it. Even Stede is kind of at his best when he's swishing around in a fabulous cursed suit and snapping at the crew for being superstitious (and I am so glad they managed to get in one low-stakes shenanigans episode, there should have been so many more). The tension between the realism of the relationships and the absurdity of the humor is really fascinating. I haven't actually looked into how people are responding to the season, but I can imagine that's at the heart of it. Which do we as viewers take the most seriously? Can we hold both visions of the show in our head?

(What We Do in the Shadows, for example, has a similar sense of humor, but centers it instead of the relationships, and sometimes at the expense of them. It's a better show for it in my opinion. But it also has more time to do it - 5 season, 10 episodes each. What could OFMD be with time to develop properly?)

Anyway, that's where I am with it. I'd say let's see where it goes, but well. Can't count on that, can we?

[bookshelfdreams]

I'm sues other ppl have already answered this but here's my take:

People don't really remember what he did in s1. None of it is brought up again, even when there would be space for it: pressuring Ed to kill Stede, selling out Stede (and by extension, Ed) to the navy, "namby-pamby in a silk gown", being generally shitty towards the crew, Fang specifically. Those are all important moments, but for people who didn't spend a year obsessively rewatching and thinking about ofmd, easy to overlook. Hell, even for the die-hard fans, these moments are apparently easy to explain away, as evidenced by the Izzy fandom.

Even in s1, when Izzy is undeniably antagonistic, it's hard to take him seriously. He's too ineffective, pathetic and funny to be threatening, esp when contrasted with the other antagonists of the season.

In my opinion, 02x04 does the bulk of the work in redeeming Izzy: he has never been more sad, pathetic and funny. He literally spends most of that episode sopping wet. His rage is impotent, his threats are empty, he has lost all of his power. He doesn't earn forgiveness by atoning for anything he did, instead he earns pity by being humiliated.

Again. I cannot overstate how important it is that we are never reminded of anything he did in s1. Even Ed shooting him in 02x01 is retconned (by Izzy himself) to make him seem more sympathetic - it becomes about "mentioning (Stede's) name" or telling him he "loved him", instead of what actually happened - Izzy once more disparaging Ed's feelings for Stede.

There's a lot of effort in s2 to make Izzy seem more important and more competent that he actually is. Stede buttering him up in 02x05; the conversation with Ricky in 02x08. Sure, the truthfulness of those things is debatable at best, but they're said out loud, they're not immediately challenged, and most of the audience will accept them as fact. There are people who are normal about this show and who do not overthink the details (in fact, that's most of the audience). It doesn't help that we never really see Ed's skills as a pirate shine in s2.

Between the Stede&Izzy and Ed&Izzy relationships, a lot more effort is put into fixing the Stede&Izzy one, because that one is a lot easier to fix. Izzy was an adversary to Stede in s1, but never a serious threat. It's believable that they would come around each other without too much fuzz (indeed Izzy coming around to Stede is a major point of character development for him). Fixing the Ed&Izzy relationship, on the other hand, would require bringing up all the stuff s2 very deliberately side-stepped and did its best to not remind the audience ever happened, and risk the sympathy for Izzy the show put so much work into building.

The empathy gap. (white) audiences are trained to empathize with and read as sympathetic a character who is white, conventionally attractive, and gender conforming. Considering that Izzy is the only one who hits all those markers, it's no surprise that most of the audience is willing to extend grace to him they don't extend to other characters, most notably Ed.

In conclusion: The show works very, very hard to make Izzy seem less bad and more pathetic than he was, and the audience, on a subconscious level, wants to like Izzy.

He's not really redeemed, but recast into the "jerkass with a heart of gold" trope and I believe that's why his arc is so divisive. If you're someone who did obsessively analyze and overthink s1, it's hard to be satisfied with his arc, because a lot of his infractions are never brought up or the hurt he caused reconciled with prior to his death scene. His new role as mascot and even mentor is unearned. But for casual viewers (or people who during the hiatus made a conscious effort to see Izzy in a positive light), there's nothing really to redeem him for except being "a bit of a dick", and being a positive mentor figure is what he was always meant to be.

It's easy to like him in s2. He's written to be likeable. It's what makes his death so impactful for a lot of people. And given that (out of the obsessive fans) the Izzy stans are very loud and very annoying, it's no surprise the writers gave him the storyline he got.

Please, someone, anyone. I know Izzy had a redemption arc in season 2, but please explain to me what exactly he did to redeem himself. I love listening to podcasts and watching reaction videos of this show, so I'm not talking about the canyon here and how they believe he didn't even have to redeem himself to begin with.

More than once, I've heard complaints about Ed, saying he hasn't really redeemed himself, that he went way too far, that he has disappointed them and he should've apologized more... But then, they'll say that Izzy has become their fav in season 2 despite not liking him in season 1 because of his antagonistic actions. Ok? Apart from Ed, who exactly did Izzy apologize to then? Or is Izzy exempt from this? Izzy must've done something to redeem himself in their eyes to become their fav after not liking him, right? Or did they absolve him of everything because he shed a tear and was feeling bad? What did Izzy do that was enough to be redeemed (apart from the writers wanting him to have that arc), but Ed aparently didn't? He cried too, he was feeling really bad as well and Izzy himself had a hand in this. So surely it was something else? I keep trying to rearrange the pieces but it makes no sense? What am I missing?

Please, help me understand. I feel like I'm going crazy over this.

#49.