#I think overall the characters were just built different in s1

[a-spacecadet]

My worst secret is that I pretend to like Confucius and JFK equally when in reality I think I may like JFK more 🫣

[gentlemanjuniper]

If I could inject just a little positivity to the news...

Season 2 has a lot of filler and stretches out a pretty simple mystery to six episodes. That's the appeal to some, I get it. But tightness and focus was not its strong suit. I remember feeling like it wasted a ton of time on side characters and it's possible shaving the story down to 90 minutes will skim things down to its most essential beats and be stronger for it. Basically, S2 got a lot of time given to it, and this is obviously my personal opinion but I don't think it used all of it well. I think S2 itself could have been half the length simply by employing more efficient storytelling and we'd not mourn too much.

A lot of S2's weaker plotlines feel built around people that Neil wanted to work with again, with so many recurring actors (I'm thinking of the zombies specifically, when that minisode could have easily been tighter without them). A lot of s2 to me feels like Neil just making work for the people he likes and wants to work with and a movie has to be more accountable to things like that.

Lots of entire fandoms exist around single movies. 90 minutes is not nothing. It's enough for many, many films to tell a complete story with cute character interactions and satisfying emotional arcs, especially when A&C are the only real significant connecting threads between both seasons thus far.

I don't think there are as many loose threads that absolutely need resolving as people may be thinking. Would I like to know why Aziraphale did the '40s apology dance? Would I like to see his bookshop gun? Sure. Are either of those necessarily essential to closing out the story? I don't think so. Really, what needs resolving is the second coming and, directly connected to that, Aziraphale and Crowley's rift. To me, not knowing the story obviously, that seems super reasonable to do in 90 minutes?

I don't think anyone involved in the final season can possibly be blind to the appeal of the show being Aziraphale and Crowley over anything else. That's certainly the reason why their roles were expanded to begin with from the book and why the second season was, nominally, all about them. They also now have to pay MS and DT for appearing in a movie rather than an ensemble show, there's no way they won't be front and center. Amazon wants a show that will make money and market itself; there's a reason why all the promo material for S2 was of Crowley and Aziraphale, because people engage with that stuff, reblog it, make art that promotes the show, etc. It makes no artistic or financial sense to make a movie that sidelines them.

GO is at its best when it has Terry's voice most strongly in it. That's why to me, S2 was a weaker, more meandering season overall (that, and I think the minisodes, while fun, just make the season feel comprised of different voices not always working in tandem towards a common goal). If I was a writer hired to condense a season into a film, and one of the authors had been rightfully disgraced, I would go out of my way to ensure the clearly Terry stuff is most significantly emphasized. It's telling to me that the Pratchett estate is producing and it's possible that the end result will result in more Terry, less Neil.

Think of it this way: everything we've gotten after S1 has always been extra. Imagine telling a fan of the book in the 90s that not only will you get a six episode adaptation, you also get a totally new second season, AND a movie?

Basically: I know this is disappointing but I think a lot of the pleasure of the Good Omens fandom was ALWAYS people picking up on and expanding on details, and y'all managed to do that just fine when A&C were only ensemble members in S1. You can and will do that with a movie too. And this solution both a) ensures first and foremost that Neil won't be involved or the allegations swept under the rug, and b) gives an opportunity for the heart of the story to be emphasized with greater focus, clarity and less filler.

Will we lose good stuff? Probably. But it's also possible we will get a tighter, more condensed, focused version of the best bits, the Terry Pratchett-est bits. I can easily see a 90 minute movie that, knowing they HAVE to focus on the important stuff now, is more Crowley and Aziraphale centric than ever.

[spooky-dice]

re:thistlesprings transracial adopteeness, I think a lot of it is played for comedy, but so was Fabian’s whole leviathan arc so “child physically cannot easily traverse the space in which they live” also feels like fair game for serious analysis.

I think the house thing might’ve gotten retconned in later seasons, but judging from the ep 3 scene in s1, Wilma and Digby are very good to emotionally connecting with and supporting their child *when* it’s something they’ve also experienced. So it’s like. They’re very determined to make gorgug not feel different than them, to the degree that they ignore accommodations or different needs that she has, and this results in gorgug feeling like he’s different from them and that there’s something wrong with him.

and then there’s also the fact that they could’ve just. Given baby gorgug to someone else? I think they were very very determined to love her and be good parents just as it’s own goal and that kind of drowned out the logistical issues with it and then there’s always the problem with dnd race, which is that they’re treated as species

yeah, i don’t think it’s a negative that fantasy high doesn’t explore this, it’s just something that comes up time to time and i think is interesting to explore for gorgug’s character, esp when so much of his arc is about not fitting in the boxes he’s expected to.

i always interpreted wilma&digby as a sort of comedy parody of well intentioned liberal parents that are hyper aware and very educated (like how they handle sex ed) but feel overwhelming and sometimes miss what’s beyond the surface. they’ve got whole binders on parenting, but they’ve also got big blindspots, mostly surrounding gorgug’s size, and his rage. one of my fav things about fantasy high is how complex the parents are. i do think there’s a lot of love there, but i also know what it feels like to have a white parent who excels in every other category proceed to blunder on race.

the thing you said abt them wanting him to feel the same, in ways that sometimes exaggerates the differences, is very real. equality≠equity. there ARE things that make gorgug different, and he can’t really talk to them abt it if they can’t acknowledge that.

fhjy gorgug was a highlight of the season for me. it really affirmed him as a multifaceted character who struggles to exist within the system. barbarian vs artificer, gentle vs rageful, born to orcs vs raised by gnomes, and then going on to prove that it’s not about picking sides but just existing with both, as a whole.

using fantasy racism as an allegory for racism is always messy, since the exaggeration of differences in species is so built into the dnd system (and tolkien fantasy overall) so it bleeding into actual plays is pretty inevitable. d20 handles it pretty well imo, it’s just one of those things.

[sutille]

okay so like, yapping but in a VERY YAPPING SENSE. like, a lot. I'm doing this to discover how i feel about the whole s2 stuff.

let's start with saying i know nothing about lol lore, so i can't really analyse it from that point. I'll be doing this from the overall sociopolitical context cuz doing this from every relationship and character's pov was going to be hell.

l think this is super important to adress because 1)i love arcane because of its sociopolitical context, especially since i'm constantly educating myself in whatever i can to understand how to fight this awful system, and 2) it influences heavily every character and their relationships (note that i still have a lot to learn and other people could do this a thousand times better, and i assume the responsibility of adressing such themes, clarifying that i do NOT stand for fascism or capitalism bc fuck all that)

so, we started by watching the damage caused by jinx at the council. after the hopelessness felt after s1, it feels like a war was inevitable. we were seeing what came after a LOT of wars (direct source: uncle heimmerdinger), and we were just at the brink of another.

from piltover's point, they see Zaun/undercity as enemies. "they" have killed their leaders (which represent them) and made, time and time again, attacks to their commodities. we don't see much of the people who live in Piltover, only the families who have power and the enforcers (which i see fitting, since Piltover is, literally, built on the suffering of people and that requires a group of wealthy and powerful people to lead and make it work, backed up by an institution that enforces their ideals and needs to stay on top). we can only focus on them when there is something really violent happening and they are directly affected.

on the other hand, Zaun is portrayed with all its people. with a variety of groups which believe in something (power through money, a symbol of rebellion like jinx, community and alternative ways of life like the fireflies (still rebellion but with a different focus, the ideal of zaun)) and/or are sick from all the shimmer or gases created by the waste of Piltover. this leads to fragmentation and difficulty to organise, until Sevika, Isha and Jinx, become the core organisers (the last one unwillingly) of a resistance with a symbol with previous legitimacy and after the oppressive actions of Piltover have, undoubtedly, cornered them all.

as we keep going through the episodes, we see Ambessa coveting power through the fear and hate from people in Piltover, looking for weapons and understanding she can't do everything directly, lest she encounters resistance in this new wnd fragile space she needs to dominate. so, she funds and stages the attack at the speech thingy, then uses Caitlyn, someone who has lost a lot and is in a position of power and "trust" for "protecting Piltover".

so, we see war. full blown "peace-keeping occupation" (as caitlyn once mentions) on Zaun, using chemical weapons, enforcers (acab) and brute force in general. all because "they have to protect Piltover", on the false assumption that every person in the undercity is dangerous to them just by existing, refusing to acknowledge the conditions that would lead to a revolt, all because they are afraid, hurt and grieving.

then there's viktor. he serves as another symbol, but not quite as jinx, since he can cure and show some "divine" characteristics. he builds a safe haven for people, both from Piltover and Zaun (but mainly Zaun), where they can access everything, at the cost (they aren't conscious about) of Viktor inhabiting them. they are, essentially, a hive mind. also, his very existence infects life, making it all not really "natural", but something made to the image of what he deems "perfection". also, i think i don't need to mention the dangers of looking at anyone who is not in this hive mind as "less evolved".

this is really well crafted. this gives a lot to work with (i mean, i love how they portray the horrors of war in children and its effects, not only in s1, but here with some scenes, but mainly with Isha). what bugs me is that, even if people unite to fight a common enemy, this does not erase history, especially one as violent as the one between Piltover and Zaun. this had been portrayed with a lot of nuance in the first acts, but then it wasn't? i mean, with Vi and Sevika, heck even Caitlyn. it just felt, to me, that war was happening, but all this context was dropped to a secondary spot, so there was extreme violence - medium¿ peace - working on it but conflict resolved ✌️.

still, even if it is on a secondary place, it is addressed in subtle ways i really like. i guess i just really love how they show the pain violence causes, even if it is for the reason of dismantling the systems of oppression (which i can totally see and agree as "defending humanity"). in the final battle, all the people who died, so quickly, it is so realistic it hurts. how fragile we are and all those ones who we lose at the hands of an arrow or a bullet, that is realistic. and i hate it (the thing itself, not in the series). i hate how... disposable? human life can be to the eyes of people like Ambessa. we also get to see that they have lives, they are not just some random who spawned specifically to fight.

i left stuff like the black rose and others relevanfout bc i need sleep

other stuff

pacing? i mean, they did what they could ig. there was a LOT happening, so a lot of individual stuff got glossed over in favor of the overarching plot, and that is not cool. but i enjoyed it in general, was always at the edge of my sit.

caitvi. i love them, but i have to agree w people that their relationship was a bit rushed? like, they really need to talk a lot about the stuff they did that hurt each other. the sex scene just bothered me because i'm ace, but i know people fuck in really weird places? let the sesbians live ig

timebomb. loved it. I'm a sucker for aus where almost everything's better. jinx and ekko's relationship is really complex and i like that they delved into it.

mel's storyline left me with so many questions. it felt rushed really. don't like that, but love the concept of it.

jayvik. loved it. i think the writers gave them the spotlight and it was really satisfying how they ended up. i can totally see them in a qpr (my aroace ass projecting) for eternity.

singed storyline. loved it but i genuinely didn't understand how the heck did his daughter survived.

jinx. nah, she ain't dead. it would be really uninspiring? sad? to think that the only rest for someone who is mentally ill is death. but i could get it from a narrative standpoint. so I'm okay with it either way.

music. incredible. loved it. animation, majestic. it's awesome.

open endings are hard to get. i think i love just as much as i don't like how much stuff left unsaid or shown was so so freaking weird. so, neutral as in "both sides have a lot of arguments".

the thing with making arcane the canon? fuck them the fandom makes what is canon. i mean, it's a series, who's going to tell you that you can't take the other lol lore as canon? a random from the internet? look at the fnaf fandom, we don't know what's canon so anything can be so.

heimmerdinger was so different from having built a place from the bottom up and not viceversa:( love him.

in conclusion, i really liked s2. there were some really big things i have issues with, but i enjoyed the experience. I'm not some judge over if it was genuinely good or not, so i don't think i need to get on the boat of "it was trash" or "it was perfection"

[misty-caligula]

I like season 2. I think that it’s a very well put together, well paced, well acted story. I know that I’m not necessarily agreed with on this by everybody, but I want to just say a thing about that.

The modern media machine is brutal and messy. The many cast and crew members that work on any given project are remarkably limited in their individual power, regardless of how high their positions are within the system, they’re all expendable, all just... employees, able to be swapped out if they step out of line according to the corporate interest. They sign contracts that limit their ability to speak openly to us about the realities on the ground, and beyond that they have to acknowledge their own careers in a VERY insular, rumor-heavy community, where being marked as “difficult” destroys you.

I know that a portion of the fandom is unhappy with the pacing in S2. Feels that certain story lines are not given enough time. Kristen felt like she popped out of nowhere. Some folk feel that the adult timeline is too heavily pushed. That the original hunt wasn’t talked about enough. That it’s all just a bit... messy. And I can see how you get there. It’s not been enough to bother me, watching it, but I see how you get there.

I think that I am part of a lucky group, because I find almost all of the characters, in both the teen and adult timelines, equally interesting. But I imagine that if you’re PRIMARILY here for the teens or certain characters it must be very frustrating when your favorites seem AWOL.

But what I do not get is how people go from that to “The writers have no idea what they’re doing, they LIED to us about having a plan, they’re all incompetent, they don’t know what they’re doing.”

Firstly, the writers make the blueprint, sure, but it needs to then be built, filmed, put together, directed, you need to get hours and hours and hours and hours of footage and then edit it all together. We have no IDEA what’s left behind. What was in the script that got dumped for time. Or for the sake of pacing. Or because it was too expensive. Or because of... who knows. We don’t know what we don’t know. The writers do not magically create their ideal version of the show, they only make path for others to follow.

I mean consider you’re an editor and you have 3 different versions of the same line from the same actor, and you have to use the one that most accurately gives a certain energy. One is 2 seconds longer, but clearly the best. You now have to shave 2 seconds off SOMETHING else. Extrapolate that out to 10 hours’ runtime, make sure you never miss anything, and keep the pacing going.

Which leads me onto my big ... Thing. Season 2 only has 9 episodes. Some people in the fandom are really amazing at finding behind the scenes sources on what’s happening, but I cannot find a single word on the reasoning behind cutting back this season. I thus cannot say conclusively that an episode was stolen from the show, that it wasn’t originally planned to be 9 episodes long. But it seems odd. And, IF it WAS meant to be 10 episodes, I can reason out the consequences.

1 episode is 60 minutes. So if you were a writer and you assumed, when you were making the overall outline pre- season 1 that you’d get 10 eps per season, you’d create certain overarching threads. Then you’d sit down to write S2. At what point do you find out that the decision’s been made and you’re an episode short? At the start? Half way? Assume you have 600 minutes of story. Now you have to fit it into 540 minutes. That’s a lot of slices.

Look at what you’ve got. What conversations don’t strictly HAVE to be had? What character development doesn’t HAVE to be done? How much can you rely on what you put into s1, and how much can you rely on the intelligence of your audience, that you can use vibes and the strength of correlating scenes to imply things you WERE going to explicitly state?

I mean... I think about the first hunt. I think about why it’s got so little build up, because ... sure I buy what you’re saying. It’s a bit fast. It FEELS a little like they shot some stuff, or wrote some stuff, that’s missing. Right? So why is it like that?

Well, imagine a hypothetical 10 ep season.

S2E7 Shauna beats down Lottie.

S2E8 Misty takes care of her. The rest of the teens struggle without her. More hallucinations, more issues, not having her is a real problem, and it’s made VERY clear that she’s been the glue that holds them together. Without her they’re falling apart. Van, for example has a reconstruction of her faith, realising that the reality of facing a world where Lott might die is worse than she had thought in the abstract. The last scene of S2E8 Lottie says “If I die, eat me.”

S2E9 Some stuff happens where it’s clear they NEED her. They notice Coach has vanished. Some more stuff about how bad they’re starving, they need food, it’s all they can think about. Then, 1/3rd the way thru, Misty says “Lottie’s dying, she said we should eat her if she does.” They say “No way, we should save her.” They spend 1/3rd of the episode talking it through. Van takes the place as the high priestess of Lottie, Tai’s converted fast, Mari agrees, Misty follows because she’s Misty. They slowly convince the others via calls to needing Lottie OR needing food. Nat holds out til the end, but is eventually persuaded because she realises either she joins in or they’ll just kill her as an outsider.  They come to an uneasy peace with the idea, kind of. Last 1/3rd of the episode is the first hunt.

MEANWHILE S2E8 adult world is stuff with Adam, Jeff, Walter, who knows what, maybe more therapy stuff. I feel like a lot of Walter stuff probably got cut, he’s easy to cut stuff from. The women get deeper into the wilderness cult, it’s more clear how far they’re losing their grip, how much they’re buying into Lottie’s new wilderness. End of S2E8, Jeff gives the call about Adam’s body.

S2E9 is the adults sitting around the table. At the end of S2E9 Lottie suggests the poison, with the context of the teens talking about the hunt taking place behind it. Then we have the teens deciding that yes they should do the hunt, and watching it go the way it does. We have more context about WHY the teens decided to do the hunt (it’s not context we do not have now, in the vibes, but it’s more explicit) and we see more why it’s a convincing argument for them when Lottie says it in the adult timeline.

S2E10 probably plays out the same way that S2E9 will in real life.

That is WAY smoother. But that would also make sense as to why it is the way it is right now. Because people are like “Why is the hunt happening NOW?” and honestly? I think it’s because they HAVE to have it now so that S2E9 makes sense for the adults. So that Lott can bring out her kool aid and not have it come out of nowhere. They NEEDED to juxtapose the hunt and the kool aid together, and the hunt always had to happen off- set just slightly to give that context.

This is just a theory. I can’t PROVE that they lost an episode. But I will say this, that making a big project like this is the work of many many hands, and I have faith in the intentions of the creatives involved. I don’t think that people are trying to lie to us, to pretend like there’s all these cool ideas when there aren’t. I think that modern capitalism is a nightmare for making art, and that they’re doing the best in the framework they’re given. I think that Yellowjackets is a fantastic sculpture, and it’s reasonable to say it has its rough edges, as long as we’re acknowledging that literally everything does.

I, for one, am incredibly excited to see what happens in S2E9, and I hope that once the strike is over S3, 4 and 5 will be able to be as close to their vision as they can make them.

[besidesitstoowarm]

Davies era recap?

sorry i've been procrastinating on this one so bad. i spent three weeks in costa rica thinking about jurassic park. tbh i don't know what to say about the specials or the era overall that i haven't said already

nine feels so beautiful post-time war, traumatized and snappish but also light and warm and kind. he was once a father and grandfather and now he is neither but he is still a doctor!! s1 feels so much richer after having seen "day of the doctor" tbh i know how we got here! it was hard, agonizing, impossible choices. yet he's still here, and he chooses love every time. a coward. he would rather doom the entire universe as long as it kills him too; he cannot survive another genocide. he can't see it happen again. if he can't prevent it, he just wants to not see it. i love nine so much

and then ten. ten is more built from nine than ANY other regeneration i can think of. ten is rose, he's bad wolf, he's nine. he's the echo of donna, of tentoo. ten is someone struggling to find his place between "where he's already been, as remembered by rose" and "where he is destined to go, via donna" like he is so dragged along by fate. mf is a full on greek tragedy, he does NOT know what is going on

that's what makes the specials such a wreck (good/bad). when he was with rose, they were a painful but understandable match. with martha, kinda middle ground. with donna, it was fate. after them? after tentoo, after the most important woman in all creation? he's adrift. he clings to randos, he tries to be the hero so hard. and he fails. he trips and cries and sobs like a huge loser, over and over again. i do love him (and tennant is fully failed by 2/4 specials) but he's unraveling! little baby duck imprinted on their mommy who is gone. what's left, after that? martyr/savior complex and dubiously gay shit, i guess

tennant is a marvel, i have to say this. eccleston too, in different ways. davies has such a wonderfully human touch with these characters, iirc moffat draws a lot from fairy tales while davies pulled a lot from modern social commentary. jack is... something, but it was a different time. ten/master is sooooooo much. this era ended more than a decade ago

all in all, davies era is beautiful, it's decadent. it's complete nonsense bullshit a good chunk of time, but i don't think that's a negative; doctor who is like star wars to me, where i truly genuinely believe it's at its best when it's kind of bad. i mean, late 60s is MY era of who. base under siege nonsense galore. farting aliens. doctor who should be bad, in order to be good. i mean this, genuinely. attack of the clones is great. you get it

i feel more comfortable leaning into this ending knowing what comes later; knowing that davies comes back, knowing that ten becomes fourteen eventually and cleans up his shit, knowing that donna gets a better, more complete ending. it's honestly hard to say what i would think about this era without knowing about the 60th; i do think "journey's end" is a nonsense bullshit episode that is nonetheless very fun to watch, however cruel an ending it is for donna. very grateful we got a redux. moffat is writing for this new davies era too i'm so excited i want to throw up

anyway! excited to re-enter the moffat era but davies had so much sway over the new tone of the show, so much feels so dated but there's no denying the impact his episodes had at the time. there were cat people. it was thematically consistent. god i love it all so much. quel domage!

[thekaijudude]

I still think Decker is the worst series of all the New Gen.

Decker was a true mid for me, 5/10 which was the rating I gave last year iirc

Nothing was done that was neither really good nor really bad

Mainly its cause unlike Trigger, there's nothing really to expand upon since Dyna but to create a whole new story. And we knew Masayoshi was directing it, which also previously directed RB, which is probably the worst NG series imo (excluding Ginga s1 as a special case of course) so going in, I already had the expectation that the series has to hit the notes mainly on fight scenes, rather than plot

And true to my expectations, there is an improvement since RB, but of course in the grand scheme of things, it's still mid

Highlights iirc were the crossover episodes (Especially bringing back the Dark Giants, which is a significant contribution to the greater lore going forward) and of course the Dynamic Type arc

Tho it had the best NG movie imo, an NG alien invasion plot done right without any cringe content. Additionally, it contributed potentially one of the most significant aspects to the overall lore, that being Ultras having the ability to create whole new other ultras (wrote like 2 essay posts on it to emphasize just how significant this new development is to the lore as a whole)

RB was the worse for me, iirc I actively avoided watching the episodes until days later and sometimes even dreaded them, from cringe, awkward dialogue and acting, bad plot developments like Aizen leaving so abruptly, Saki being angsty without context and O50 reincarnations inconsistent with previously established O50 lore from Orb (specifically with the VoL), Asahi revealed to be the embodiment of the Makoto crystal? What? And why???

Also the Movie's theme was very forced and messy with introducing Toregia whose main theme and character motivations didn't really synergise with the concept of "family", so it's like watching a 2 different movies squeezed into 1, so much that the developments are non-sequitur. Which is obviously apparent since the movie WAS trying to link 2 unrelated goals, that is to introduce Toregia as a character and to make an RB Movie

After 6 years, I still stand by my opinion that they should've just done the RB Novel in live action instead of whatever we got for the series as it was far more interesting, serious and more consistent with the O50 lore that Orb established. Especially peeved that they wasted Saki as a character in that department since her character motivations were more solidly built in that context. But alas, as long as TsuPro continues to aim at children as the main audience, we aren't likely to get something like the Novel.

Also, because Asahi is still my most hated character in NG due to how cringe she is on virtually every single time she appears on screen. I distinctly remember just either mentally shutting off or just skipping past her dialogue, especially during rewatches.

Ginga s1 is obviously the special case since it was basically the franchise's hail mary attempt made with very low budget anyways, so it's understandable. Therefore no point really shitting on it at this point

So Decker at this point is the 5th worst NG series for me. But again, it's the true mid series for me as well.

[castlebyersafterdark]

as someone with evangelical parents, I definitely sympathize with those who are worried about watching S5 with their parents if it has sexual content. That obviously doesn’t mean it ~shouldn’t~ have sexual content, but I fully understand. it’s not even about being a young kid, either. like i’m in my early 20s and I know there will never come a moment in time where I can just watch things with my parents, adult to adult, without worrying about its content. like if I visit home and stuff later on.

I’ve definitely pushed the boundaries by purposely my mom showing edgier R rated content, films that have queer characters, and even shows with minor sex scenes. I remember my heart was beating out my chest when I showed The Umbrella Academy cause of the episode in S1 with the gay kiss in it, but everything was chill, so now I’m more confident with this stuff. I don’t even bother watching stuff with my dad anymore cause he even gets offended by, like, films that have too much feminism in them.

But my mom is chill overall, even if she’s still christian and a moderate conservative. But like, I would still prefer it if the media I show doesn’t have sex scenes lol. Which to some extent makes it difficult to find media to show cause so many classic films and modern shows have content concerns. A lot of these content concerns are things I don’t even notice specifically when watching, so I always have to go to like common sense media or IMBD parents guide to check if I’m gonna show it.

I’m also an only child, so maybe this plays a role in things too. Like when I was a young kid, I checked out films from the library and then always eagerly and enthusiastically showed my parents because, like, I had no siblings and they were a captive audience. in my teen years I became more cautious and selective lol as I watched more adult-oriented media.

But with Stranger Things in particular, it’s a specific case cause since 2016 it’s been like THE ultimate show to show my mom. And when it first came out, I was definitely unaware of its queerness and everything we know now. I was definitely a Mileven back then too. The amount of queerness has slowly built up, and it’s also coincided with me coming to terms with my identity as well. Real coming-of-age journey there. When S5 comes out, there’s no way I don’t show her the season after I watch it, cause like I’ve always done it. That’s our thing.

BUT I’m also rooting for a radical Byler endgame storyline complete with a spicy scene. And that’s a weird place to be in. I definitely admit that showing the Byler season will be somewhat easier if there’s not a sex scene in it as well 😭

I envy those with progressive, chill parents who don’t have to worry about any of this stuff

See, ok. I do totally sympathize and I get it!!! I understand the feelings of being restricted and having to monitor and watch what you share with family if you're in a situation, etc. Totally. Different perspectives.

I think what my concern and issue is, is just the demand (not you! I appreciate the perspective you shared!!) from people who think ALL media shouldn't have any sex or queer themes or gay characters expressing physical aspects of relationships (or even straight characters, too, actually) or anything that might be uncomfortable for a communal viewing experience. Even from otherwise progressive people or people who are queer themselves. Because, well. There should be choices. Not everything need to be shared. Or watched by every person. There's content I cannot watch. So I... don't watch it. And even if I'm out now and are accepted and have a whole bf who my parents are chill about, I still wouldn't want to watch tv shows or movies with explicit gay sex scenes with them! However chill they are about my life hahaha. I just don't think it's something I need to watch with them. I'm not personally ashamed? Just. No thanks haha. Maybe it's because I grew up doing my own thing and we all did (youngest of 6 😬) and the rarity was everyone sitting around the TV to watch something together. So, choices were personal? And that's where my mindset comes from. Obviously, there are infinite possibilities about where people are coming from in their lives.

So I admire and understand your perspective though, as this show has always been something you've shared with family members. I can see how that's a difficult thing to face, the change in dynamic and the story line potentially featuring something you otherwise may not exactly choose to specifically show your parents. That's an interesting situation! So, I get what people mean. I hope the show can be either pure entertainment or a good talking point rather than a point of contention for anyone in your situation or similar. ❤️

[thegirlwhowritesfics]

PART ONE:

Alright, I am thinking I am going to break this into two posts. This one will be about Mayans as a whole, my theories of where its heading and just general thoughts. Part two will be the rumours and gossip you’ve asked for my opinions on.

Disclaimer: These are my own opinions, and if they hurt your feelings, I am not sorry, it’s the internet and people are going to hurt your feelings if you choose to engage in discussion. And this is a discussion piece, it’s not gospel and its not an argument, I am not going to fight people in the comments.

This has been a long time coming and in preparation for this post I have re-watched season 3, granted I was sick, and I watched it on double speed, but I still watched it.

We can all agree that s3 was a hot mess, right? Not only did we have massive drama with Kurt being fired, Elgin taking over and then covid. Writing covid into the storyline obviously changed a huge direction of how the show was heading.

Overall, there were two many storylines, if you want to have that many active storylines you need to either A) have more than 10 episodes or B) have the episodes alternate between the storylines. Which Mayans did not do well.

I am going to break this into two parts, Mayans, and the Cartel.

Mayans

Dudeeeeee, this was brutal. The storylines were all over the place, between episodes there was a lack of flow of the storylines. I could see where they wanted to go and what they wanted to do but it just did not hit the mark. It was sloppy, its my belief the sloppiness comes from too much at once. I feel like Elgin was trying to provide himself and it didn’t work. The ratings took a huge hit this season and the two reasons are, its not flowing well and the PR around the show is non-existent which I will talk about more later.

My biggest issue with this season is the writing is weak. There is so much potential with these characters and their stories and nothing from s1 and s2 was built on. I honestly felt like I was watching a different show.

The ‘One King to rule them all’ storyline was good, Bishop was *chefs kiss* this season as a broken man grasping for power and control? I love to see it. This storyline should have been the main focus this season and while the drug trade plays into it, that storyline was too messy to be having both running at the same time. I would have made the drug trade a smaller role building up, instead of the big attention grab they tried to use in the first few episodes.

On to everyone’s favourite soft serve Ez, I hated this storyline, my hate from it comes from Gabby. The purpose of Gabby was to show Ez a soft side, but it didn’t work. I feel like they are trying too hard to make Ez the next Jax and instead of having kids he has Gabby. And it doesn’t work Ez is a character in his own right and he’s not Jax 2.0. The flipping from gentle Ez to brutal violent Ez didn’t really resonate with me, it feels so out of character. I am feeling its too quick of a descent into darkness and he flip flops too much. I am hoping that if they want Ez to be dark he just completely goes down that path and doesn’t look back.

Also side note, the amount of blood he lost he should have died OR been stuck in hospital for longer than a few hours.

Angel, Nails, and that hot mess. There seriously was no need for this. Besides losing his son Angel’s storyline didn’t add anything in my opinion. Angel didn’t handle Adelita coming back well, and honestly not surprised he is a giant man child who cannot deal with his own emotions let alone supporting those around him. Look at him and Coco, Coco is your best friend, and you don’t even try and help him? F you. I know you’re going through some sh#t but you could have helped. Angel is so self-absorbed, and his storylines aren’t adding to the overall storyline. Nails is a POS for how she treated Hank, and I don’t believe the baby is Angel’s either, I guess we will see.

Adelita was an incredibly well written storyline, the grief, the emotional cycle she went through? *chefs kiss* she actually had some character development and growth and a good storyline. I have no complaints around Adelita. I actually liked her much more this season than last. I hope we see more of this strong writing in s4.

Coco, oh my poor sweet Coco. I don’t know how I feel about this storyline, I do like Hope, but the meth mountain storyline made my heart hurt, relapsing is never pretty, and I am annoyed at how the sad bois handled it and Letty, Letty was pointless this season. Their relationship had so much potential, and the writing fell short.

Taza’s storyline, honestly I BARELY followed this I actually don’t really remember what happened. Besides the final episode and the scene with him and Bish.

Cartel

I know everyone hates Emily; this is not an Emily hate blog.

I get that Miguel is grieving but the affair seems out of character given that last season him and Emily were so in love and moving forward as a team. I hate affair storylines with a passion too, so this really irked me. Also, the lack of beard on Danny Pino hurt my soul. I also feel like that the lack of focus on his legit business ventures is also out of character, we saw in s1 that the kidnapping didn’t impact his ability to do his job, his rage fuelled him to be even more focused, to go legit so that he can protect his family.

Emily was a pain this season, we saw her go from delicate wallflower (almost) s1 to a badass cartel wife in s2 and now she’s a giant crying mess who cannot handle her kid? I don’t believe it. I am glad that she left Miguel BUT I SWEAR TO GOD IF THEY WRITE HER AND EZ TOGETHER IN S4 I AM GOING TO BURN IT DOWN!

I don’t see Miguel taking it well that Emily has taken his heir, so we will see how this all plays out. I hope she runs, changes her name, and moves to Canada or something. She needs to get out of all of this, but its also the only life she’s know so you know she’s going to get sucked back in somehow.

Alverez and Nestor, I am liking this little twosome, I hope we see more next season. There’s not really a lot to discuss around this, because there was not much screentime.

The Cartel need to fix their issues ASAP or else Miguel is going to get taken out the Galindo Cartel by an enemy and its going to dissolve.

Now let’s talk about the non-existent PR around the show, the serious lack of engagement with fans, promotion of the show on socials, cast posting etc. its ridiculous. This is also contributing to the low ratings and the fact that fans are leaving the fandom. Pretty much every show on the air right now has social media engagement. Look at the new Hilary Duff show on Hulu for example, Hilary herself has posted so much about the show, behind the scenes pictures, live videos, sharing what she can share and just building that hype around the show that starts next year on Hulu. S4 is filming currently, and we’ve had 1 behind the scenes photo? B#llshit. There is no hype, its really disengaged.

FX posted about Mayans on their Instagram and twitter 18 times this year, that’s it. 12 of those posts were the weekly episode posts. AHS has one every second day. While I understand that AHS obviously makes way more money than Mayans, the lack of promotion is what isn’t helping boost viewership or money. The last bit of press I saw was from May when Mayans was renewed, there was a brief mention in an article on Kurt’s new show and how he was fired but that’s it. If FX and Mayans don’t fix this, I don’t see there being a s5.

Overall, I think s4 needs a big shake-up, if they are going to stick to the 10-episode format than we need less storylines and better writing. It’s that simple. I think that Angel needs to die, maybe at the hands of the club, this would drive Ez’s story so much further, the way that would question his loyalty, push him over the edge? Or would it make Ez more focused because he doesn’t have to worry about Angel anymore.

Mayans can make a comeback if they fix their issues, do I see it happening? Absolutely not, it’s the same writers as last season. Maybe it was too soon for Elgin to take the reins, maybe he needed a more experienced voice to help him for another season as a co-pilot before he went solo. I feel he could have done amazing things with this but its just fizzled.

I know for me personally, and a lot of people they are unhappy with the storylines, the writing, the inconsistency around characters and the lack of character development. I don’t know if I will watch s4 or if I will just skim it. I have no interest in s4 because there is nothing to make me want to watch.

[spiderlingh]

Élite Season 4 Review

as an og fan of élite who’s been binging every single season on the day it came out, i watched the fourth season yesterday. here’s my thoughts. obviously includes spoilers for both the new season and some short stories.

the short stories of carmuel and caye/rebe/guzman were the best for me.

the new characters were… uh… how do i put this nicely

ari is the new lu. but less interesting. hated her at first, felt kinda sorry for her at the end though.

mencía is a cardboard copy of miss marina. 🙄

idk how to feel about their dad?? uhhh

i was really hyped for phillipe’s character (idk how to spell it i’m sorry lmao) but man what a letdown.

ya know what… i really liked cayetana this season! i felt neutral about her before but i rlly liked her this season. wish she’d had more screen time.

THEY BUILT UP GUZNADIA FOR THREE SEASONS ONLY FOR THEM TO BREAK UP WITHIN THREE EPISODES AND HAVE GUZMÁN GO AFTER A DIFFERENT CHICK?? W H A T

i liked ander back in season 1… but his character just becomes less and less likeable over the seasons. fight me.

shoutout to samu’s hair this season. hot.

okay but what the fuck was up with all the fucked up relationships this season?? omander. carmuel. guznadia. samu and guzmán. samu and rebe’s friendship, which come on, could’ve gone back to the way it was back in s2.

speaking of rebe, this girl got hurt way too much this season?? pls stop she deserves happiness thanks

HAHA i forgot patrick… no. nah. i didn’t like him.

i cannot stress this enough: FUCK LOVE TRIANGLES. for me it worked in season 1 with carla/polo/christian because they actually seemed to be into polyamory and it actually benefited the fucking plotline around covering up marina’s murder. but that was it. AND THEY HAVE ONE OR TWO EVERY SEASON. it’s exhausting. jesus.

HEY BY THE WAY… what happened to la inspectora from the first three seasons? ma’am?? where you at?? the kids fucked up again and someone nearly died. then someone actually died.

the mystery this season was so fucking dull. like i forgot what was even going on kinda dull. the interrogation scenes were not nearly as compelling as in the previous seasons, they didn’t give you chills, didn’t make you wonder what the hell happened.

you don’t even need a murder mystery to make it interesting. season 2 was my favorite season, and there was no murder mystery — samuel had gone missing. his disappearance and the interrogation scenes were interesting, no one saw the guzmán teamup coming or his relationship with carla. it was exciting and thrilling and this season did not have that even a little bit.

solid plot twist. i’ll give them that. i did not really see that whole armando storyline coming, although i did figure out he had something to do w it because they kept him around for so long.

at the end after guzmán shot that mf in the back i was like NO DONT LEAVE THE BODY?? and then i saw he and samu and someone else i think (i don’t even remember man) dropped his body into the lake. i liked that, reminded me of the trophy.

the fuck is up with the fasion getting more and more extra this season? compare the party outfits from season 1 to the ones we have now. a little extra is good, but now they’re just plain ugly. anyway s1 and s2 fashion >>>

that one scene in the restaurant where guzmán spoke of marina and the way she was as a person and a daughter… that was so well written. i feel like so many people (the writers included) forgot about marina bc she was the first to die and only appeared in season 1, but still. like this teenage boy lost his sister (and so much more) in such a short span of time. i’m glad they at least acknowledged it.

dude… obviously i know that the show isn’t realistic at all but these kids have been through so much. guzmán has been through the worst shit. losing his little sister to murder and then his best friend as well? seeing him die in his fucking arms? and the other kids? they’re still teenagers man. it is beyond wild to think that they’d be as carefree as they were displayed to be this season.

obviously that joke rebe made in the short story about not being able to take any more interrogations and murders and shit was, well, a joke, and it was delivered well, but if you think about it… come ON. they’ve been through hell and back. the show has never been just light-hearted, it has dealt with several serious issues and deaths and murders and things like that. these kids are broken. why couldn’t they have shown more of that? or at least acknowledged it a little? have someone go to fucking therapy??

i thought overall the whole season was underwhelming. kinda boring.

before the season came out, someone said that they didn’t think the show could thrive without carla, lu, nadia, valerio, polo… and i agree now.

i feel like this season had such a different vibe than the previous seasons. not in a good way.

i miss season 1 and 2 man. those seasons had the best mystery, the best vibe, the best cast. i don’t just miss carla, lu, polo, valerio, nadia… i miss christian and nano as well.

even the soundtracks of the previous seasons were better. i’m sorry to sound this negative in the whole review but man i waited so long for the new season only to be disappointed.

you could consider this a small rant. might add more later.

[vickyvicarious]

Leverage Redemption Pros/Cons List

Okay! Now that I've finally finished watching the first half of Leverage: Redemption, I thought I'd kind of sum up my overall impression. Sort of a pro/con list, except a little more just loosely structured rambles on each bullet point rather than a simple list.

This got way out of hand from what I expected so I'm going to put it all under a cut. If you want the actual bulletpoint list, here it is:

PROS

References

Continuity

Nate

Representation

Themes

New Characters

General Vibe

CONS

'Maker and Fixer'

Episode Twins

Sophie's Stagefright

Thiefsome

You might notice the pros list is longer, and that's because I do love the show! I really like most of what it does, and my gripes are fewer in number and mostly smaller in size. But they do exist and I felt like talking about them as well as the stuff I loved.

PROS

References

There is clearly so much love and respect for the original show here. Quite aside from the general situation, there's a lot of references to individual episodes or character traits from the first show. For example, Parker's comments on disliking clowns, liking puppets, disliking horses, stabbing vs. tasing people. The tasing was an ongoing thing in the original, the stabbing happened once (S1) but was referenced later in the original show, the clown thing only had a few mentions scattered across the entire original show. The puppet thing was mentioned once in S5, and the horses thing in particular was only brought up in S1 once. But they didn't miss the chance to put the nod to it in there; in fact with those alone we see a good mix of common/ongoing jokes and smaller details.

We got "dammit Hardison" and "it's a very distinctive..." but also Eliot and Parker arguing about him catering a mob wedding, and Eliot being delighted by lemon as a secret ingredient in a dish in that same episode (another reference to the mob episode). Hardison and Eliot banter about "plan M", an ongoing joke starting from the very first episode of the original show. We see Sophie bring up Hardison's accent in the Ice Job, Parker also makes reference to an early episode when describing "backlash effect" to Breanna, in an episode that also references her brother slightly if you look for it.

Heck, the last episode of these first eight makes a big deal out of nearly reproducing the iconic opening lines of the original show with Fake Nate's "we provide... an advantage." And I mean, all the "let's go steal a ___" with Harry being confused about how to use them.

Some of the lines are more obviously references to the original show, but they strike a decent balance with smaller or unspoken stuff as well, and also mix in some references between the team to events we the audience have never seen. If someone was coming into this show for the first time, they wouldn't get all the easter egg joy but most of the references would stand on their own as dialogue anyway. In general, I think they struck a good balance of restating needed context for new viewers while still having enough standalone good lines and more-fun-if-you-get-it callbacks.

Continuity

Similar to the last point, but slightly different. The characters' development from the original to now is shown so well. I'm not going to go on about this too long, but the writers clearly didn't want to let the original characters stagnate during the offscreen years. There was a lot of real thought put into how they would change or not.

It's really written well. We can see just how cohesive a team Parker, Hardison, and Eliot became. We get a sense of how they've spent their time, and there's plenty of evidence that they remained incredibly close with Sophie and Nate until this past year. The way everyone defers to Parker is different from the original show and clearly demonstrates how she's been well established as the leader for years now - they show this well even as Parker is stepping back to let Sophie take point in these episodes. Eventually that is actually called out by Sophie in the eighth episode, so we might see more mastermind Parker in the back half of the show, maybe. But even with her leading, it's clear how collaborative the team has become, with everyone bouncing ideas off one another and adding their input freely. Sometimes they even get so caught up they leave the newbies completely in the dust. But for the most part we get a good sense of how the Parker/Hardison/Eliot team worked with her having final say on plans but the others discussing everything together. A little bit more collaborative than it was with Nate at the helm.

Meanwhile Sophie has built a home and is deeply attached to it. She and Nate really did retire, at least for the most part, and she was living her happy ending until he died. She's out of practice but still as skilled as ever, and we're shown how much her grief has changed her and how concerned the others are for her.

There's a lot of emphasis on how they all look after one another and the found family is clearer than ever. Sophie even calls Hardison "his father's son" - clearly referring to Nate.

Nate

Speaking of Nate! They handled his loss so, so well. His story was the most complete at the end of the last show, and just from a narrative point, losing him makes the most sense of all the characters. But the way he dies and his impact on the show and the characters continues. It's very respectful to who he was - who he truly was.

Nate was someone they all loved, but he was a deeply flawed individual. Sophie talks about how he burned too hot, but at least he burned - possibly implying to me that his drinking was related to his death. In any case, there's no mystery to it. We don't know how he died but that's not what's most important about his death. This isn't a quest for revenge or anything... it's just a study of grief and trying to heal.

Back to who he really was real quick - the show doesn't eulogize him as better than he was. They're honest about him. From the first episode's toast they raise in his memory, to the final episode where Sophie and Eliot are deeply confused by Fake Nate singing his praises, the team knows who he was. They don't erase his flaws... but at the same time he was so clearly theirs. He was family, he was the man they trusted and loved and followed into incredibly dangerous situations, and whose loss they all still feel deeply.

That said, the show doesn't harp on this point. They reference him, but they don't overwhelm new viewers with a constant barrage of Nate talk. It always serves a purpose, primarily for Sophie's storyline of moving through her grief. Anyway, @robinasnyder said all of this way better than me here, so go read that as well.

Representation

Or should I say, Jewish Hardison, Autistic Parker, Queer Breanna!

Granted, Hardison's religion isn't quite explicitly stated to be Jewish so much as he mentions that his "Nana runs a multi-denominational household", but nonetheless. He gets the shows big thesis statement moment, he gets a beautiful speech about redemption that is the emotional cornerstone of that episode and probably Harry's entire arc throughout the show. And while I'm not Jewish myself, most of what I've seen from Jewish fans is saying that Hardison's words here were excellent representation of their beliefs. (@featherquillpen does a great job in that meta of contextualizing this with his depiction in the original show as well.)

Autistic Parker, however, is shown pretty dang blatantly. She already was very much coded as autistic in the original show, but the reboot has if anything gone further. She sees a child psychologist because she likes using puppets to represent emotions, she stims, she uses cue cards and pre-written scripts for social interactions, there's mention of possible texture sensitivity and her clothes are generally more loose and comfortable. She's gotten better at performing empathy and understanding how people typically work, but it's specifically described as something she learned how to do and she views her brain as being different from ones that work that way (same link). Again, not autistic myself but from what I've seen autistic fans find a lot to relate to in her portrayal. And best of all, this well-rounded and respectful depiction does not show any of these qualities as a lack on her part. There's no more of those kinda ableist comments or "what's wrong with you" jokes that were in the original show. Parker is the way she is, and that allows her to do things differently. She's loved for who she is, and any effort made to fit in is more just to know how so that she can use it to her advantage when she wants to on the job - for her convenience, not others' comfort.

Speaking of loved for who you are.... okay, again, queer Breanna isn't confirmed onscreen yet, and I don't count Word of God as true canon. But I can definitely believe we're building there. Breanna dresses in a very GNC way, and just her dialogue and, I dunno, vibes seem very queer to me. She has a beautiful speech in the Card Game Job about not belonging or being accepted and specifically mentions "the way they love" as one of those things that made her feel like she didn't belong. And that scene is given so much weight and respect. (Not to mention other hints throughout the episode about how much finding her own space meant to her.) Also, the whole theme of feeling rejected and the key for her to begin really flourishing is acceptance for who she is, not any desire for her to be anyone else, is made into another big moment. Yeah, textually that moment is about her feeling like she has to fill Hardison's shoes and worrying about her past, but the themes are there, man.

Themes

I talked a bit about this yesterday, so I'm mostly just going to link to that post, but... this series so far is doing a really good job in my opinion of giving people arcs and having some good themes. Namely the redemption one, from Hardison's speech (which I'm gonna talk a little more about in the next point), and this overall theme of growing up and looking to the future (from above the linked post).

New Characters

Harry and Breanna are fantastic characters. I was kind of worried about Harry being a replacement Nate, but... he really isn't. Sure, he's the older white guy who has an angsty past but it's in a very different way and his personality and relationships with the rest of the crew are correspondingly different. I think the dynamic of a very friendly, cheerful, kind, but still bad guy (as @soundsfaebutokay points out) is a great one to show, and he's got a really cool arc I think of learning to be a better person, and truly understanding Hardison's point about redemption being a process not a goal. His role on the team also has some interesting applications and drawbacks, as @allegorymetaphor talked about. I've kind of grown to think that the show is gradually building up to an eventual Sophie/Harry romance a ways down the line, and I'm actually here for it. Regardless, his relationships with everyone are really interesting.

As for Breanna, first of all and most importantly I love her. Secondly, I think she's got a really interesting story. She's a link to Hardison's past, and provides a really interesting perspective for us as someone younger who has grown up a) looking up to Leverage and b) in a bleaker and more hopeless world. Breanna's not an optimist, and she's not someone who was self-sufficient and unconcerned with the rest of the world at the start, like everyone else. She believes that the world sucks and she wants it to be better, but she doesn't know how to make that happen. She outright says she's desperate and that's why she's working with Leverage. At the same time, Breanna is pretty down on herself and wants to prove herself but gets easily shaken by mistakes or being scolded, which is a stark contrast to Hardison's general self-confidence. There are several times when she starts to have an idea then hesitates to share it, or expects her emotions to be dismissed, or gets really disheartened when she's corrected or rejected, or dwells on her mistakes, or when she is accepted or praised she usually takes a surprised beat and is shy about it (she almost always looks down and away from the person, and her smile is often small or startled). Breanna looks up to the team so much (Parker especially, then probably Eliot) and she wants to prove herself. It's going to be so good to see her grow.

General Vibe

A brief note, but it seems a fitting one to end on. The show keeps it's overall tone and feeling from the original show. The fun, the competency porn, the bad guys and clever plans and happy endings. It's got differences for sure, but the characters are recognizably themselves and the show as a whole is recognizably still Leverage. For the most part they just got the feeling right, and it's really nice.

CONS (no, not that kind)

'Maker and Fixer'

So when I started writing this meta earlier today, I was actually a lot more annoyed by the lack of unique 'maker' skills being shown by Breanna. Basically the only time she tries to use a drone, the very thing she introduced herself as being good at, it breaks instantly. I was concerned about her being relegated into just doing what Hardison did, instead of bringing her own stuff to the table. But the seventh episode eased some of those fears, and the meta I just wrote for someone else asking about Breanna's 'maker' skills as shown this season made me realize there's more nuance than that. I'd still like to have seen more of that from her, but for now the fact that we don't see a lot of 'maker' from her so far seems more like a character decision based in Breanna's insecurities.

Harry definitely gets more 'inside man' usage. His knowledge as a 'fixer' comes in handy several times. Nonetheless, I'm really curious if there are any bigger ways to use it, aside from him just adding in some exposition/insight from time to time. I'm not even entirely sure how much more they can pull from this premise in terms of relevant skills, but I hope there's more and I'd like to see it. Maybe a con built more around him playing a longer role playing his old self, like they tried in the Tower Job? Maybe it's more a matter of him needed distance from that part of his past, being unable to face it without lashing out - in that case it could be a good character growth moment possibly for him to succeed in being Scummy Lawyer again down the line? I dunno.

Episode Twins

This was something small that kind of bothered me a little earlier in the season. It's kind of the negative side to the references, I guess? And I'm not even sure how much it annoys me really, but I just kinda noticed and felt sort of weird about it.

Rollin' on the River has a lot of references/callbacks to the The Wedding Job.

The Tower Job has a lot of references/callbacks to The White Rabbit Job.

The Paranormal Hacktivity Job has a lot of references/callbacks to the Future Job.

I guess I was getting a little concerned that there would be a 'match this episode' situation where almost every new Redemption episode is very reminiscent of an old one. I love the callbacks, but I don't want to see a lack of creativity in this new show, and this worried me for a minute. Especially when it was combined with all three of those episodes dealing with housing issues of some kind. Now, that's a huge concern for a lot of people, and each episode has its own take on a different problem within that huge umbrella, but it still got me worried about a lack of variety in topics/cases.

The rest of the episodes failing to line up so neatly in my head with older episodes helped a lot to ease this one, though. Still, this is my complaining section so I figured I'd express my concerns as they were at the time. Even if I no longer really worry about it much.

Sophie's Stagefright

Yeah, I know this is just a small moment in a single episode, but it annoyed me! Eliot made a bit of a face at Sophie going onstage, but I thought it was just him being annoyed at the general situation. However, they started out with her being awful up there until she realized the poem was relevant to the con - at which point her reading got so much better.

This felt like a complete betrayal of Sophie's beautiful moment at the end of the original show where she got over her trouble with regular acting and played Lady Macbeth beautifully in front of a full theater of audience members. This was part of the con, but only in the sense that it gave her an alibi/place to hide, and I always interpreted it as her genuinely getting over her stagefright problems. It felt like such a beautiful place to end her arc for that show, especially after all her time spent directing.

Now, her difficulty onstage in the Card Game Job was brief and at the very beginning of being up on stage. @rinahale suggested to me that maybe it was a deliberate tactic to draw the guy's attention, and the later skill was simply her shifting focus to make the sonnet easier for Breanna to listen to and interpret, but he seemed more enraptured when she was doing well than otherwise in my opinion and it just doesn't quite sit well with me. My other theory was that maybe she just hasn't been up on stage in a long time, and much like she complaining about being rusty at grifting before the team pushed her into trying, she got nervous for a moment at the very beginning. The problem there is that I think she'd definitely still get involved in theater even when she and Nate were retired. I guess she could've quit after he died, and a year might be long enough to make her doubt herself again, but... still.

I just resent that they even left it ambiguous at all. Sophie's skills should be solid on stage at this point in my opinion.

Thiefsome

...And now we come to my main complaint. This is, by far, the biggest issue I have with the show.

I feel like I should put a disclaimer here that I had my doubts from the beginning about the thiefsome becoming canon onscreen. I thought the famous "the OT3 is safe" tweet could easily just mean that they are all still alive and well, or all still working together, without giving us confirmation of a romantic relationship. Despite this, the general fandom expectations/hopes really got to me, especially with the whole "lock/pick/key" thing. I tried to temper my expectations again when the character descriptions came out and only mentioned Hardison loving Parker, not Eliot, but I still got my hopes up.

The thing is, I was disappointed pretty quickly.

The very first episode told me that in all likelihood we would never see Hardison and Parker and Eliot together in a romantic sense. Oh, there was so much coding. So much hinting. So much in the way of conversations that were about Parker/Hardison's relationship but then Eliot kept getting brought into them. They were portrayed as a unit of three.

But then there was this.

I love all of those scenes of Parker and Hardison being intimate and loving and comfortable with one another and their relationship. I really do. But it didn't escape my notice that there's nothing of the sort with Eliot. If they wanted a canon onscreen thiefsome, it would by far make the most sense to just have it established from the start. But there aren't any scenes where Eliot shares the same kind of physical closeness with either of them like they do each other. Parker and Hardison kiss; he doesn't kiss anyone. They have several clearly romantic conversations when alone; he gets important conversations with both but the sense of it being romantic isn't there.

Establishing Eliot as part of the relationship after Hardison is gone just... doesn't make any sense. It would be more likely to confuse new viewers, to make them wonder if Parker is cheating on Hardison with Eliot, or if they have a Y shaped relationship rather that a triangle. It would be so much clumsier.

Still, up until the Double-Edged-Sword Job I believed the writers might keep it at this level of 'plausible hinting but not quite saying'. There's a lot of great stuff with all of them, and I never expecting making out or whatever anyway; a cheek-kiss was about the height of my hopes to be honest. I mostly just hoped for outright confirmation and, failing that, I was happy enough to have the many hints and implications.

But then Marshal Maria Shipp came along. And I don't really have anything against her as a character - in fact, I think she has interesting story potential and will definitely come back. But the episode framed her fight with Eliot as a sexyfight TM, much like his fight with Mikel back in the day. And then his flirting with her rode the line a little of "he's playing her for the con" and "he's genuinely flirting." The scene where he tells her his real name is particularly iffy, but actually was the one that convinced me he was playing her. Because he seems to be watching her really closely, and to be very concerned about her figuring out who he really is. I am very aware though that I'm doing a lot of work to interpret it the way I want. On surface appearance, Eliot's just flirting with an attractive woman, like he did on the last show. And that's probably the intention, too.

But the real nail in the coffin for me was when Sophie compared herself and Nate to Eliot and Maria. That was a genuine scene, not the continuation of the teasing from before. And Sophie is the one whose insight into people is always, always trustworthy. She is family to the thiefsome. For this to make any sense, either Eliot/Parker/Hardison isn't a thing, or they are and Sophie doesn't know - and I can't imagine why in the hell she wouldn't know.

Any argument to make them still canon leaves me unsatisfied. If she knows and they haven't admitted it to her - why wouldn't they, after all this time? Why would she not have picked up on it even without an outright announcement? Some people suggested they wouldn't admit it because they thought Nate would be weird about it, but that doesn't seem any more in character to me than the other possibilities. In fact, the only option that doesn't go against my understanding of these people and their observational abilities/the close relationship they share.... is that the thiefsome is not a thing.

And furthermore, the implication of this conversation - especially the way it ended, with Eliot stomping off looking embarrassed while Sophie smiled knowingly - is that Eliot will get into another relationship onscreen. Maybe not a full-blown romantic relationship. But the Maria Shipp tension is going to be resolved somehow, and at this point I'm half-expecting a hook-up simply because of Sophie's reaction and how much I trust her judgement of such things. Even if she's letting her grief cloud her usual perceptiveness... it feels iffy.

It just kinda feels like I wasn't even allowed to keep my "interpret these hints/maybe they are" thiefsome that I expected after the first couple episodes convinced me we wouldn't get outright confirmation. (I mean, I will anyway, and I love the hints and allusions regardless.) And while I'm definitely not the kind of fan who is dependent on canon for my ships, and still enjoy all their interactions/will keep right on headcanoning them all in a relationship, it's just.... a bummer.

Feels like a real cop-out. Like the hints of Breanna being queer are enough to meet their quota and they won't try anything 'risky' like a poly relationship. I dunno. It's annoying.

.

That's the end of the list! Again, overall I love the new show a lot and have few complaints.

[salmonthestoryteller]

RNM Season 4 Episode 12

Honestly?  I loved most of Episode 12.  There were some really great moments between the different characters.

All of Alex and Michael's scenes, including the almost wedding were incredible. Though I think my favorite was, “I mean this with all the love in the world, stop whining.” That was just so Alex, and so them. Also, I still have feels about Sanders and Michael growing Sunflowers and entering them in competitions. Like.  I may need to write a fluffy fic for that.

Max and Liz’s moment I was surprisingly here for. (Maybe I'm just feeling sappy cuz the series is ending. That's possible.)

Isobel and Kyle saying let's eff all the awkward explanation about how we were both being stupid and just kiss was perfect. Including Max cockblocking them the first time, and then Kyle cutting off Isobel’s ramble to kiss her before she enters the pocket dimension. (Also Liz’s sheer excitement over Kyle and Isobel was pretty adorable.)

Max and Isobel walking into the sandpit hand and hand was just what I needed.  (Seriously, I didn't realize how much I was missing these two closeness until I had it back this season.)

Kyle and Liz’s scenes. Isobel and Liz’s scenes. The Pod Squad reuniting in the pocket dimension?  All amazing.

Bonnie punching Clyde was a highlight, ngl.  If they don't let us keep Bonnie I am gonna be mad. She is RNM’s Adam and I am terrified she will meet the same fate as he did in the source material.

What didn't work for me?

Look, Isobel’s reaction to Tezca’s sacrifice was amazingly acted. But I really don't care about Tezca. I just don't. They seriously could have had her be a flashback only character and had Isobel be who trained Max, because she is who knows him best.  It would have given us more Isobel and Max time and really work with her character arc, honestly. And we could have taken most of the Tezca plot and just given the screen time to someone else.

Speaking of Isobel’s connection. I'm sorry, did we really spend 4 seasons building her and Maria's friendship, choose to make them related instead of giving us them as a romance, and when asked who Maria is closest to choose Dallas?? No offense, I love Dallas, but his closest friendships are Heath and Michael. The friendship built the most for him this season was with Bonnie, not Maria. And he was introduced as a connection to Rosa - which then fell to the wayside but is still true. If we needed someone to reach Dallas, why not Heath? Why not Rosa? If we wanted who Maria was closest to, it should have been Isobel.  

Also, as much as I don't mind Sonya’s inclusion overall - I definitely feel like she's sitting in on scenes that should have been with Eduardo.  The whole point of his character was Deep Sky. Why are we having Sonya talk about its programs? This seems like such a weird writing choice. It almost feels like they couldn't have Eduardo’s actor for the episode, but needed someone to talk about Deep Sky. But instead of, IDK, giving us someone actually attached to Deep Sky they used Sonya.  Honestly, her plot would have worked better if, instead of having her and Eduardo at odds, she was a Deep Sky agent.  She still could have been on assignment in Mexico - he still could have come down to find her because Tezca stole her form and he was worried. She could have been part of the Astral Projection project officially, and he calls her in to help if they want her there instead of him. There's just… Sonya’s story seems all over the place and the lack of Eduardo when we're using Deep Sky so much this season seems weird.

Finally Clyde. I'm still not finding him very threatening regardless. He's so whiny.  And can't Bonnie just kiss him and cancel his powers again?  Seeing as they were taken artificially, not actually through Bonnie the first time. For that matter, just whip up a batch of the original poison that killed Noah in s1 and inject the guy with that. Geesh. He only just got this powerful. Why did we take so long to stop him?  He’s just not that scary - I’m done with Clyde.

[whencallstheheart]

We’ll find out tonight if our predictions are correct! 

Responses to the written questions are under the cut.

Where is Ned and what is he doing?

No idea

Business trip

Dealing with some financial issues.

Doing business in UC or Hamilton. Nothing major

He stayed behind next episode and will be back in the finale.

I think planning something for Florence, maybe expansion for the mercantile?

I don't know

I have no idea, wth!?!?

Yo i have no idea. I'm gonna take a wild guess and say he's trying to contact Florence's daughter who wasnt there for the wedding

Maybe he's visiting his daughter? Or expanding the Mercantile somehow

With Mike. Oil pipeline

Hiding

It sure

I have no clue honestly, maybe planning a surprise for Florence?

Perhaps...expanding his store? Or ordering something new to begin to be shipped to his.

something related to factory

Sussing out suppliers

Maybe something to do with the Wyman guy?

visiting his daughter

Buying a new house or a surprise for Florence

Visiting Abigail

Planning something special for Florence

He is doing something with his daughter

No clue

With his daughter

Planning to expand the mercantile to include deliveries (Hope Valley Amazon) lol

Not sure

I really dont know!

Made out a Will since he now is married to Florence

Business in Union City

Business, but he’ll be back

I don’t Know

I dont know. This one threw me!

Literally have no idea

maybe he will come back with his daughter who will come to live at HP

some sweet surprise/gift for Florence

He is involved im some growth in HV.

Taking care of business.

He's making a business deal somewhere

I have no idea. I think it was a weird to put in o.O

Making purchases for the store.

Business stuff somewhere

I don't know

i don't know

ned things

He just took the long way home...

Adopting Flo's son

Hiding

He is picking up a surprise order gift for Florence, and it’s taking longer than expected.

Fighting attempt to take over mercantile

Talking to a divorce lawyer. Or putting a pillow over Abigail's mom's face so she can bury her already and come back to Hope Valley for his buddy Henry's sake.

Honestly I’m not sure but interested to find out!

Idk honestly. Probably actually doing something sweet for Florence but she doesn't know it.

What's up with the Pinkertons?

Not sure

A storyline to bring a change of pace to the show.

I really Don’t know

Not sure, but I don’t think it will be resolved this season, maybe it’s the cliffhanger?

I don't know

They’re hired thugs like they were in S1, just there to show Walden is a bad guy despite appearances

Factory related

Up to no good! Don’t trust them.

Yo i dont even know. They look totally sketch but they are probably the good guys actually. I'm predicting they are after someone who's been wanted for a long time. I think it may be too easy to link them with the guy who took Jesse and Clara's money

Not sure yet

Working for Waldon

Railroad

Sneakily buying land

I couldn't care less about them

Perhaps something is in the cabin/someone they don't want found.

No idea

Something to do with the mine disaster (even though it's been ages).

we will see in season 9

Setting up a good storyline for season 9

Not sure maybe something to do with the new factory that might be built

Maybe it has to do with Henry

I have no idea, but I do not like them!

No good

Buying all the land

They have Jesse. Someone wants to reopen the mine and seek revenge on Elizabeth for his son going to jail (Spurlock).

Looking for some kind of hidden good

Shady dealings going on

Guarding the future factory site. But something extra at the cabin connected with Spurlock.

Trouble

?

An even bigger I dont know on this one. Like, what in the world???

Holding Jesse captive

I think they kidnapped Jesse because he found out what they were up to but I have no idea what that is

stumped on this one

That is difficult. He is apparently connected to S1 Spurlock. Is he there for revenge? Or, just a heavy hand like his relative?

Revenge? They want to take over Hope Valley.

Something sketchy, probably bigger than just whatever is going on with the cabin though.

Land grab

No clue but they'll be one of the big bads next season

They are probably the goons of the Industry dude

They are working for somebody bigger.

They want to take over the town

I don't know

i'm worried about Nathan

idk they are the bad daddys of the season

they can only be there to cover up a crime, or some valuable find

No clue

They’re wanting to uproot Hope Valley for better business by destroying the town.

Keeping identity of mastermind safe from townspeople.

Maybe looking for Ned, who alternatively is a serial killer and now on the run. Possibly for the murder of Abigail's mother?

I’m so confused lol

Creating a monopoly & doing some villain nonsense (as it would seem the show is hinting).

Any other thoughts going into the finale?

No

There will be at least one surprise- not sure what

There are too many loose ends to tie up in one episode and I just want Elizabeth and Nathan together (and perhaps quickly married in this episode!)

I’m honestly really nervous, I’m rooting for Nathan but I have a feeling she’ll go for Lucas, I really don’t mind Lucas as a character but like what storylines can they do with them as a couple? The manuscript is finished, they’ve gone on every sort of date at this stage and she’s been in his office. What else can they do? With Nathan they can do the being scared because of his job again but making it different, there’s children involved now, it’s not just Elizabeth. Jack won’t understand but Allie will 100% feel worried for him. Also Allie having a mother figure, especially at this stage in her life, how could you not want it! The blended family as the main family would be so nice for this show, I know it’s been done before but they will be fairly front and centre in the show. Sorry for the rant, I love your blog so much! I don’t have tumblr so I can’t leave comments or like your gifs but I thoroughly enjoy all your theories and opinions!!

Just ready for this stupid love triangle to be over!

I’d love to actually see Henry meet up with Abigail, but doubt it. I hope they have Clara do something heroic for Jesse, but also doubt it. Henry will definitely be putting Hickam in charge at least temporarily. I think Ned will return but we won’t get a full explanation yet. And the dramatic ending won’t be the triangle choice, it’ll be Elizabeth losing the school.

Allie’s adoption finalized and reaction to Elizabeth choosing Nathan is something we should see.

Glad the triangle will be DONE!!

I hope that Elizabeth follows her heart and not pick someone who is a safe option.

I wish Faith were leaving instead of Carson. Also, I think there will be lots of set up for problems with the school board and Elizabeth. Also, I want more little Jack scenes but i don't think we'll get much since child acting laws and covid combined make that difficult

Excited for Elizabeth to move on from her past and enter a new adventure with either of the two men and really just everything else (Rosie and Lee, Fiona, Henry.)

I hope Faith doesn’t end up with whoever doesn’t get chosen by Elizabeth.

hopefully the finale will clear up the drawn out love triangle

The triangle was waaaaay drawn out. Be done and choose.

Nathan and Faith......would be great......

No matter who Elizabeth chooses I'm SOOOO READY to get this over with!

Kindness matters - no matter who she chooses. Isn't that why most of us watch the show

I am so over the love triangle and just want to know who Elizabeth picks.

Worried about the fandom more than anything

Elizabeth please pick Nathan

It's just a TV show and no matter what , it's there for our entertainment. I do think they're setting things up for the return of Abigail in some way.

The must be a Season 9!!!

I hope Fiona does not get involved with Mike.

Hopefully things get back to normal for Elizabeth and Rosemary

Interested to see the other storylines. I want Elizabeth to choose Nathan but I think JT will throw us off. From the promo pic, it looks like they will try to put Faith with Nathan.

- I just want Elizabeth to chose so that this storyline can come to an end and we can finally get to see her marriage and functioning has a wife. - Wonder what will become of Lucas once her choice is made. - I would like Lucas to have a proper storyline that doesn't involve Elizabeth or the love triangle. - I would love to see Rosemary and Lee finally become parents however that may happen. I feel like the writer just left them in limbo about it and keep teasing but never delivering on anything.

Hopefully will end with Nathan but the very last minute. I would prefer more romance before the finale

Elizabeth will have to decide on what’s important with school.

Jack might make an appearance in a dream scene?

So excited! I hope I don't wake up my kids while watching.

I hope they don’t pick Lucas

CLARA DISCOVERS SHE IS PREGNANT

?

Just excited for this to be over. I know we needed it and I think overall it was handled decent enough, but I'm glad to finally move on.

Why is everyone so scared?

The whole season has been about getting over your fear. Elizabeth doesn’t have to deal with her emotions or real life with Lucas because school is out for the summer and she is working on her book. She needs to make up with Rosemary and get over the loss of Jack and fear to be with Nathan.

this season has been totally not what I expected...I thought the hug at end of season 7 was definitive and we'd get at least some Nathan courtship, not a complete U-turn to Lucas (with hopefully a turn to Nathan at the very end). I now think Season 9 will be what I expected season 8 to be, and I am very much looking forward to that.

Something sudden will allow Elizabeth to bring her feelings to light for everyone...Nathan. I think she will have decided by the time she takes of the rings, but will not have the opportunity to share with the man until later. Until she faces the prospect of him being in danger again? Full circle from the end of S7.

I need Elizabeth to really apologize to Rosemary. Rosemary has always been there for Elizabeth.

I’m so afraid :(

Hated the triangle

I am so ready to finally move on from this triangle!

They put waaaay too many storyline in the last 2 episodes, they will never manage to conclude them all and we'll have another weird random cliffhanger which will not tie in with the Christmas episode (If we're getting one ?)

I hope the guy who loses, has a good life in later seasons

The annoying love triangle will finally end. Elizabeth/Nathan are endgame, unless Jack suddenly comes back from the dead. But, I doubt it. I hope Lee/Rosemary are pregnant, or decide to adopt children. I just want Lee/Rosemary to have children. Can't wait to see how this season ends. Hopefully, it won't be a cliffhanger.

Nervous as hell

Elizabeth and Nathan get married

i kinda hope someone dies tbh it would make everything more interesting

Elizabeth was so tiresome this season, they could have told her story of overcoming grief in a much more relatable way. Why did they not just have her talking to Rosemary about how sad or exhausted or numb or angry she feels all the time? You know, something a widow would actually go through. At the very least she could have been stoic, instead she was just kinda bitchy.

Faith and Nathan will have some sparks; Elizabeth will choose Lucas and they will kiss twice one being at bridge one being at her home inside with baby jack present.Carson will leave; Jessie will be found; Ned will come back safely.

Lucas endgame, Nathan and faith have sparks, Rosemary paper, Jessie and Clara make up.

I think Henry will take his own advice and leave to find Abigail to see if there is still any hope for them. Though I like his character, I want him to finally be happy, and if that means staying with Abigail, then that’s what it means. I don’t think TPTB will bring back Lori soooo.... that means Henry would be the one possibly leaving. I also think some scare will happen with Nathan between him and the Pinkertons. Then it may come full circle at the end where Elizabeth runs to him like she did last season, but instead of hugging him, she’ll kiss him instead.

Hallmark execs dictated ending and will cut salaries to bring back Abigail, hence Paul leaving.

My condolences to whichever guy gets to look forward to being bored by Elizabeth for the rest of his life. Are we sure Jack's death wasn't a suicide?

Ready to see how it ends and already looking forward to next season!

I will be really disappointed if she chooses Lucas but I’m afraid that’s where it’s headed. Either way I don’t understand how they’ll end in “the healthy place” they’ve said it will be with so much left for one episode.

[alyblacklist]

Hey, Aly! Is it me, or is the show slowly getting more and more boring? I saw on Wikipedia that the viewership for Season 7 is four times less than the viewership for Season 1 (about 12 million viewers in 2013, now dwindled down to about 3 million viewers as of 2019). Honestly, I miss the fun of the first season and wish that the writers hadn’t complicated things by giving Liz a baby. On top of that, I think it would’ve been interesting to see Tom as a Big Bad rather than what he was reduced to. He had the potential to be a very rich character (even if he might’ve been bad). And we can’t forget about the horrid writing for Liz. Like, how much more unstable can she get? She switches sides at the flip of a switch and decides to trust literally everyone EXCEPT the man who has watched over her, protected her, and built an entire criminal enterprise for her. These days I don’t even look forward to a new episode anymore. I can’t imagine what it must’ve been like for the viewers who’ve been watching this since 2013. Anyways, I digress. What are your thoughts? Do you think they should’ve kept things simple rather than complicate things beyond repair?

We all watch for different reasons and like different things. For me, as long as the elements I love are there, I forgive a lot. If they take those away, I lose interest. Liz’s absence for 1/3 of this season was a major negative for me so yes, I would call this season more boring than past seasons on that factor alone. I also think the pace of “reveals” has slowed to the point of being unbearable. But I stick it out because the characters and relationships I love are still there and I want to see how their story ends. 

I get frustrated with Liz’s flip flopping but I also don’t fall into the camp of believing she should fawn all over Red and just blindly continue to trust him either. She’s a grown adult with a child of her own and he refuses to tell her the truth about her own past. I find that enormously problematic at this stage in the show when they have offered no reasonable justification for his continued silence. I hope Liz will finally gets some of the answers she’s been desperate for since the beginning before they turn and have her fall happily into place at Red’s side again. Otherwise this whole “war” will have been a total waste of time.  

In terms of audience, I don’t think you can fairly compare audience numbers from S1 to S8 for any broadcast show without looking at trends overall and ALL shows are down from where they were in 2013. People are just watching TV differently. I’m not saying that people haven’t dropped the show because they’ve lost interest for one reason or another - of course many have - but some of that would’ve happened regardless.  All the time slot changes over the years had a negative effect on audience retention completely independent from the plot.

Finally, I don’t think this is a matter of simple vs. complicated because as far as I’m concerned, the show was never simple and that was part of its allure. My frustration lies in the sheer number of loose ends, the storylines that drag out an entire season or more only to meet an ambiguous end that doesn’t resolve anything etc. They need to start tying up some of those ends if they hope to keep the audience’s attention for another season.

[a-lil-bi-furious]

So much talk about Hope being toxic with her friends, becoming obsessed and endangering everyone around her in a plan to save one person no matter the cost, acting like a Mikaelson and...y’all are right. She is. (Grief and obsession, grief and toxicity, are not mutually exclusive.) I don’t think she should be getting so much hate, but it is pretty frustrating. Hope’s whole storyline is, actually, and I have some things to say about it.

I’m going to start by saying I’m not convinced Legacies ever really had a vision of where they were going with their story. Season 1 felt like it somewhat did, but it was obvious they had no clue what to do after Hope jumped into Malivore. However, if I were to give the benefit of the doubt, squint real hard, and search for an overall theme, I’d say this show was supposed to be about what makes someone a hero or a villain (good or bad) and how history and lineage have no bearing on that. I’m pretty sure they said as much in the premier. It’s about constructing identity and finding a place to belong in a world that at large doesn’t accept you (and this all plays really nicely into found family). It’s about choosing change in the face of generational trauma. They set this story up to be about Hope and they built it on a foundation of her struggle to construct a positive identity in the midst of the loss of her family, yes, but also her family’s legacy as villains. Because Hope isn’t her family’s legacy; she’s the hope that her family could break free from that legacy, and she always has been.

This message could have been really powerful if they followed through, especially because the answer wouldn’t be black and white! Each and every main character of this show is confronted with light and darkness in different ways, and each is faced with their own struggles which, I would argue, could be traced back to their families. Even though they set out with initial focus on Hope, this is a theme that could apply to each main character. (I won’t try to break that down here; it would be long and veer off focus.) 

So let’s talk about the most recent episode. It isn’t inherently a bad storyline for Hope to fall back on her family’s ideology. In fact, it makes a lot of sense.  Assuming she still is in touch with the remaining Mikaelsons (which she must be because they’re all, well, Mikaelsons), it seems that the problems in that family dynamic probably still exist. It’s clear all throughout S1 (and again now in S3) that Hope hasn’t dealt with anything regarding her family and that she still clings to “Always and Forever” like the lifeline it never really was. She hasn’t figured out for herself what her family’s history means for her, she just knows that she loves them and she lost some of them and she doesn’t want to lose any more. She doesn’t know about family beyond this dynamic. The Originals showed over and over how destructive their oath and family dynamic was; it wasn’t all bad all the time, but it showed how harmful and misguided love can be. How loyalty can be taken to a fault. How dedication easily turns into obsession. How protection becomes control. There’s no way Hope has grown up unscathed by this, and we see her display a lot of Miakelson mannerisms throughout Legacies. 

Hope following toxic family patterns isn’t out of character. They’ve been present all throughout (and I would say the writers have been building to this, but the writers don’t know how to build a plot to save their lives so clearly they haven’t). This isn’t a terrible story choice in itself, but it isn’t being used correctly. They haven’t set her up in a way to grow from this, only to be affirmed in it. Hope’s actions haven’t been framed in a positive light, but they haven’t been framed in a wholly negative one either. People have reacted with frustration, but no one has really addressed her behavior so far (aside from some attempts by Cleo, who doesn’t know Hope the way the others do, and some offhand comments). Maybe we’ll see more fallout next episode, but I’m not counting on it. What we’ve seen as of now is Hope reacting with nonchalance to everything, and Landon seemingly acting the same. It makes sense that Landon would understand the depth of her loyalty and the way it blinds her to other people (because let’s be real, if he were actually written in-character he would be scouring the earth for a way to get Raf back), but it doesn’t make sense that he would be okay with the way she endangered everybody else in the name of getting him back. The show likes to vaguely point out the issues, like “oh he’s her blind spot” or saying she’s “obsessed” or constructing that dream world where everyone else died when she was looking for him. But they never quite follow through with reinforcement for those issues, do they? They like to sprinkle in that these behaviors are problematic, but the sundae is just happy reunions and love conquering all in the end.

So, what is my point here? If I’m right about the original theme of this show, then Hope “ going all Mikaelson” should be handled differently. Shouldn’t the point of Hope’s arc be for her to escape that codependent, blindly loyal, damaging dynamic her family had? The show does not seem to be geared toward this end, but who knows, maybe I’m jumping the gun. What else was the point of 5 seasons (8 if we count TVD too) of seeing all the carnage brought upon the Mikaelson siblings because of Klaus and their damned “Always and Forever” than to show that it was harmful? What is the point of Hope being a literal embodiment of hope for the Mikaelson family if she chooses to be just like them? 

[sometimesrosy]

Hi there Rosy! I know you don’t do much The 100 content anymore (and I totally understand; I still can’t rewatch even s1-6 yet) but I keep thinking about this and would love your opinion if you ever feel up to it (don’t worry about it if you don’t): since we know that the last season had a different story/script before rewrites and that big changes were made, and we know Bellamy was originally supposed to be on the beach, and from hints from some actors in the show (and simply just following the story every season ourselves) the OG scripts most likely originally had Bellarke finally reaching the culmination of their seasons-built love story, if you follow the way the story was going in s1-6 and had it continued to follow the same sorry for the last season, how do you think it most likely, logically, was going to end, for the show’s overall message and for Bellarke? I hope that makes sense. I have a few scenarios when I follow the original plot and the story threads we had going for s1-6 but I can’t decide which is most likely. One thing I can’t stop thinking about is that there’s a line Murphy says to Emori, “You’re the most important person in the Universe,” as well as this line between Hope and Jordan, “Can friends do this?” that I keep thinking were meant to be one of those Bellarke parallels we always got to other cannon couples. Idk...I feel like the only original story that may not have changed in those last minute rewrites is Memori’s. I think the complete and nonsensical deviation from the original story is what drives me the most crazy as a writer. I keep trying to puzzle out what the real story conclusion was supposed to be to give my writer brain some peace, lol.

I put this off because I honestly DON’T know what they planned. There were a few things I thought were obvious... but then they just ditched the main, long term plots and character development.

I know I had plenty of speculation about how the story should or could go. Clearly, Clarke and Bellamy should have ended together. They wouldn’t have had to erase them all together to stop it if they weren’t supposed to. And we’re talking about not just Clarke and Bellamy being erased, but also everyone closest to their stories, like ESPECIALLY Octavia and Echo. 

I think only Murphy’s story ended up following with the narrative the story built. 

I guess the thing is, I don’t know if the purple sparkly aliens were part of the original story. Deus ex Machina is so tacky. The aliens story line erased the Eligius mission story line. I mean. We know the eligius folks landed on Sanctum and Sky Ring. But we saw no sight of them anywhere else. Why? What happened to them? How did Cadogan take over? Eligius should have an advanced civilization on Sky Ring. There weren’t even any predators there. Why didn’t they survive and grow? IDK. What happened to the eligius ships? 

So there’s too many discrepancies there. You CAN’T erase your own story. If you want to change it you have to show the shift. 

I DO think they were meant to go back to earth. And I DID say that it would seem like Clarke and/or Bellamy died until the very end where we’d have the happy ever after... which they did... but they pretended they didn’t need Bellarke to have a happy ending. Even WITH the changes in story, they were going to do a Bellarke happy ending. 

But Eligius might have been the story instead of sparkly aliens. I do think Cadogan was going to be the big bad... why they made him the hero of the entire apocalypse is beyond me. He’s CLEARLY the big bad. 

Why they made CLARKE the big bad of the entire apocalypse is beyond me. She’s CLEARLY the hero. 

They shifted that. They made the cult leader who sacrificed his own family and didn’t believe in love, but believed in absolute tyranny into the hero. They made the rebel bisexual woman who believed that doing the right thing was the way into a vindictive bitch who caused all the darkness. This was WAY off the story.

Clarke was supposed to be the hero and she was supposed to save humanity and the world with the help of her delinquents, most especially Bellamy, because she save the world and he saved her. That’s how the story goes. Head and the heart. 

I do think they probably meant for bellamy to die, or bellamy and CLARKE to die, but I my old theory was that Bellarke were saving  humanity by “diving into” the black hole or anomaly or whatever to keep something from happening and in the end, the anomaly shot them out on earth. Where their friends found them or their descendent years later. Because the anomaly was closed and the delinquents got on the eligius and flew back 75 years later. That was MY spec. 

Was it meant to be? There’s no way we can know, because stories CAN go anyway. That’s why I was reluctant to say season 7 failed until I couldn’t see a way for them to wrap it up together. 

Even strange narrative choices, like making it an ensemble show instead of having duo protagonists, could work if they pulled it all together. But they didn’t. 

The complete reversal of Clarke from hero to villain makes me wonder if the change actually came from the outside. Did someone TELL him to make the rebels into the bad guys and the tyrants into the good guys? To make the nazi anology of MW into who we were supposed to empathize with? It’s too far from his original narrative and philosophy. And it’s too coincidentally similar to the rise of the far right in national politics and the vicious silencing of the kind of people that the delinquents represented. It just doesn’t make sense. It’s like someone else was telling the story and had an agenda to demoralize all rebellious delinquents who were identifying with The 100.

This doesn’t answer your narrative question. I really don’t know. Maybe some day someone will tell us what happened, what was supposed to happen, and why the about face.