#I say Thingollo first

[dfwbwfbbwfbwf]

It was selfishness that caused Thingollo to keep the Silmaril from them. Same with Dior. I usually give Elwing the benefit of the doubt, but in the end, she also chose the Silmaril over her kingdom.

I'm not saying Elwing is responsible for what the SoF did, but remember, they sent letters every time first. They sent a letter to Thingollo. He rejected it. They sent a letter to Dior. He basically rejected it by not answering. They sent a letter to Elwing. She rejected it.

(Tbh, though, I also haven't heard the argument that El² was atonement for Eluréd and Elurín. Not saying it isn't, just I haven't heard it.)

It's also important to note that none of the massacres were Maeðros or Maglor's ideas. Doriath was Curufin and Celegorm's. Sirion was Amrod and Amras' (at least in an earlier version, and I've never heard anything in later versions that goes contrary to that).

And Maeðros and Maglor did NOT murder Eluréd and Elurín. Celegorm's servants did, and we don't know if anyone told them to do it, or if they did it of their own accord. Maeðros and Maglor are responsible for the twins' deaths as the leaders, yes, but they didn't murder them. Saying they murdered them makes it sound like they did it intentionally.

Here's what bothers me about framing Maglor's abduction of Elrond and Elros as atonement for Eluréd and Elurín: Were Maglor and Maedhros ever actually sorry? I mean in a way that wasn't, "Well, we were assholes. But anyway..."

Yes, they went back and couldn't find them. But those children would have wandered, looking for help, wondering why no one came for them, growing more and more hungry, before finally succumbing to the elements. And M&M would have thought about this...and apparently it affected them so much they decided to go torment their murder victims' sister.

Elwing was 3 when they stole her entire family from her. And knowing how much they fucked up her life, knowing what Eluréd and Elurín would have suffered, they decided to go destroy her life again.

That's not repentance to me.

"But the oath!" Fuck the oath! Better they both throw themselves into a volcano before shedding more blood.

I absolutely believe it says something about their character that it wasn't until the very end that Maedhros offed himself and Maglor just wandered the shore. The oath may have started their quest, but it was selfishness that kept it going.

[dfwbwfbbwfbwf]

A king is he that can hold his own or else his title is vain.

Long rant, so I'm putting it under a "Read More".

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I've seen some people who really seem to hate this quote. "How dare Maeðros tell Thingollo what to do on his own land! Those arrogant Noldor, waltzing in and colonizing the land."

But that's not exactly what happened, is it?

For starters, this is the entire quote:

A king is he that can hold his own or else his title is vain. Thingol does but grant us lands where his power does not run. Indeed Doriath alone would be his realm this day but for the coming of the Noldor. Therefore in Doriath let him reign and be glad that he has the sons of Finwë for his neighbours not the Orcs of Morgoth that we found.

These are the facts of the situation:

Very few Eldar lived north of Doriath, if any.

Very few Eldar lived outside of Doriath in general.

Those Eldar who lived out of Doriath were literally on the verge of being destroyed.

The Fëanárions destroyed Morgoth's armies, which saved everyone living in Beleriand - Doriath included.

The Girdle of Melian significantly reduced Thingollo's influence in Beleriand; he essentially abandoned everything outside the border.

For those unaware of how kings and vassals work, there is an agreement between the king and the vassals where the vassals swore fealty to their lord (and would provide resources and military aid when asked) in return for protection from the lord. If the vassal broke the contract, they committed what was called a felony, and their fief was taken from them.

If the lord broke the contract, the vassal was no longer obligated to serve the lord (so long as he could prove the lord's crime against him).

I would say Thingollo broke the lord/vassal contract, given he failed to protect Denethor (who was potentially a vassal, but this example is admittedly weak) and Círdan (who was certainly a vassal). He didn't do it out of malice - he simply couldn't fulfill his end of the bargain. His good intentions don't really change anything.

EDIT: Laisrinel pointed out that lords had castles prepared for their vassals in case of invasions, and the Girdle is Thingollo's equivalent of that. It can definitely be argued that Thingollo didn't break the lord/vassal contract because of that. While that doesn't change my overall argument about how Thingollo lost his authority past the Girdle, it's definitely a great point. (Granted, Melian didn't make it until after Denethor died, by which point it was probably too late for Círdan, but A for effort at least! [D+ in practice, though.])

As for colonizing the land, the Noldor didn't kick anyone out because there was basically no one left to kick out. Ironically, Finrod is the only one who potentially committed genocide, although it's very unclear what happened and it doesn't really mesh with his character. (And the Thindar REALLY committed genocide. Remember how they hunted the petty Dwarves for sport? I know the petty Dwarves weren't 100% innocent in that, as they were stealing from the Thindar, but no one even acknowledges that this happened.)

If someone cannot enforce their authority, they don't have any. That's how things have always been. Thingollo trying to tell the Noldor to do ANYTHING is like an ant trying to boss an anteater around.

(And this shouldn't be too difficult a concept to wrap one's head around. It's usually the people who complain about this quote to say that the Fëanárions don't have the right to the Silmarils, after all, and I've seen this exact argument used. [Even though authority to control and a right to property are not the same thing.])

I don't see anything about what Maeðros said that should be controversial. The fact is, Thingollo was not the king of Beleriand anymore. His authority ran as far as the Girdle. Beleriand wasn't his to rule anymore, and it appears even the Laegrim and Círdan broke their vassal relations with Doriath.

(Ironically, Fingolfin was acting more like the King of Beleriand during the First Age.)

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"But dfwbwfbbwfbwf, wouldn't that mean it was okay for Fingolfin to claim kingship from Fëanor, since Fëanor couldn't 'hold his own'?"

Astute observation, rhetorical question! And the answer is no.

¡¿Nani?!

Yeah, I said what I said. The main difference between Maeðros-Thingollo and Fëanor-Fingolfin is that Fingolfin promised to follow Fëanor. No Noldo ever made such a promise to Thingollo. The Noldor owed Thingollo nothing; if anything, Thingollo owed them. How long would Melian's Girdle, powered by a single Maia, have lasted under the combined forces of Morgoth (a Vala), Thauron (a Maia), seven balrogs (seven Maiar), and hundreds of thousands, maybe millions, of orcs? Plus possibly a giant spider? 🕷️

(Actually, knowing Jirt, probably forever; can't have his wife's mom be a weakling, after all. It's actually rather annoying imo. But I digress.)

[dfwbwfbbwfbwf]

Be warned, Eri. I didn't mean for all this to spill out.

It's not like the Fëanárions didn't suffer. They lost their grandfather and mother. Their "friends" refused to even teach them how to build ships, which would've stranded them or forced them to make unsafe boats. They lost their father. They lost Maeðros for a time. They lost their position. They lost their lands. They lost their friends.

All while Thingollo hid behind his wife's skirts like a pathetic trophy husband. At best, he's unwilling to risk his soldiers for the people outside the Girdle (which ironically included Círdan and Denethor's people, so he really is more like Olwë than I originally thought). At worst, he's a coward.

Between Dior and Elwing, I don't know who irritates me more.

Dior grew up pampered and protected, in a place as far from Morgoth as physically possible while still being in Beleriand. The first battle he fought was when he and Beren killed the Dwarves who sacked Menegroth (and I will argue to my dying day that Doriath got what it deserved, except for Melian and Mablung - they got screwed). Morgoth and orcs were little more than a story from his parents' fairy tale adventure. While refusing to return the Silmaril was incredibly stupid, I suppose it could be argued he didn't know what the Fëanárions were capable of - I don't even mean murder, but raw combat ability. But in the end, he chose a jewel over his kingdom.

Elwing has no excuse other than she's young and traumatized. She knew what the Fëanárions were capable of. And she damned her kingdom - ABANDONED HER SONS - for a "good luck charm".

At least with Dior, you could argue he was stupid and naive and didn't think they'd ACTUALLY attack. Elwing has no such excuse.

And you can also argue that the Fëanárions should've gone after the two that Morgoth had.

Like they hadn't spent FIVE HUNDRED YEARS doing that. Like Maeðros hadn't suffered for thirty years for trying. Like they hadn't tried with the Union of Maeðros, only for everything to go belly up in a spectacular fashion. They didn't owe Doriath anything, and they especially didn't owe Doriath their father's work.

Again, not saying Sirion and Doriath were good choices from the Fëanárions, but this is one of those situations that Tolkien fans hate to admit exist: where EVERYONE is wrong.

Silm reread 18: Tears Unnumbered ye shall shed

So, we got here. But first, B&L get an epilogue.

First, a tidbit about reembodiment: B&L take their physical forms again in Doriath. I guess they go from Mandos to there in spirit. (It's all "allegedly", anyway). Everyone is happy and afraid when seing them (very reasonable reaction I think) and Luthien heals Thingol from (depression, more or less).

Melian looks in Luhien's eyes and is sad. She "realized they will be apart till the end of the world and after" (huh?) and again, we have Pengolodh's favorite stylistic tool: "nobody ever suffered more from any loss than Melian suffered then".

Oh, I found the quote in original: “But Melian looked in her eyes and read the doom that was written there, and turned away; for she knew that a parting beyond the end of the world had come between them, and no grief of loss has been heavier than the grief of Melian the Maia in that hour."

B&L go to Ossiriand, it vaguelly feels like they don't neet to eat anymore? But unclear.

Anyway, back to the proper plot Feanorians. Maedhros gained hope, because he saw Morgoth is not untouchable. He starts creating the Union, but the wording about him doing it … even without knowing the story, if I read it carefully, I would probably be worried about how it will go.

And we have a clear reminder of the Oath and all that. Orodreth doesn't trust the Feanorians because C&C (makes sense I guess) (Finrod would probably join the Union but anyway). Gwindor joins Maedhros, going against his king's orders… we know how this will end for Gwindor.

doriath. Mae&co had sent brash letters to thingol along the lines of "you will be our enemy if you don't give the Silmaril back" and Melian advised Thingol to give it to them! But he is angry at their tone and at C&C, and also B&L have suffered so much for this jewel…

Sidenote: If your main claim to a piece of treasure is "but I/someone have sufferred so much", keeping it is probably going to end badly.

Also thingol wants to keep the Silmaril, because it is this jewel's power…. wait what? "And every day that he looked upon the Silmaril the more he desired to keep it for ever; for such was its power." [original] WHAT.

Ok, that is new. So, the Silmaril is canonically addictive? Or is it only because it has been in Morgoth's crown?

So, anyway, Thingol sends Maedhros a dissing answer and Maedhros leaves him be, because the Union is more important. Yay, Maedhros, great job, you are doing well! (For now :((( )

Unfortunately C&C threathen Thingol with genocide, after they win the wart. Which they assume they will. So thingol fortifies and doesn't go to the war. (Mablung and Beleg go, but Thingol allows them reluctantely, so they end up better than Gwindor)

Bór! :) and Ulfang :(

Maedhros plays his hand a bit too early :(

Also, another mention of Morgoth's spies (plural) and traitors. So, I guess the fallen Men, enslaved Elves and shapeshifting wannabe-Saurons sabotage the Union as much as they can.

Battle, Fingon doubtful, problems, suddenly: Turgon! First good surprise of this battle (it will be a whiplash…)

The Noldor want to charge too quickly, but Hurin stops them, because he is wise.

Morgoth wants to kill Fingon especially. Why? Probably to break Maedhros. (Also, revenge for the rescue, maybe.)

Gwindor gets unlucky chance (that's what happens when you go to war against your king's orders, I suppose)

The Noldor get really motivated and almost win. Morgoth is trembling of fear XD as they bang at his door. This is pretty cool of them. But then they all die. :(

Another turn: the Noldor might have won, but Ulfang. :( [Maglor kills him and it's probably the only named character that we are told is killed by Maglor, which is interesting]

Also, Glaurung is there.

Fingon dies. Also, his banner is silver and pale blue, which I did not remember.

Hurin, Turgon, foreshadowing for Earendil. Maeglin hears it all, but does not comment, and he remembers it and I have no idea why the book tells us that, this line feels so odd. "Maeglin, Turgon's sister-son, who stood by, heard these words, and did not forget them; but he said nothing" It's apparently odd to more people because there's a reddit thread about it. huh, ok, makes sense.

So, Hurin is brave and great and I will need to make a post about how the story is an ecosystem and the benefit of one character's heroics sometimes lands to another character's lap and it's painful but also quite real. So. Hurin. But we'll get back to him later.

Morgoth is happy, because divides and betrayal and stuff like that. :/

Also this (Ulfang) is why the Elves don't like Men anymore (except the Edain).

Cirdan is besieged, allo we learn that there are Orcs who can use explosives, and orkish engineers and what not. Interesting. they destroy the ports, Cirdan&co escape to the sea and to Balar.

Turgon again sends ships to Valinor, again it doesn't work (again I suppose he didn't ask Ulmo about his opinion or ignored it), and we are told who kills those sailors: not the Valar. "Only one, Voronwe, was saved by Ulmo from Osse's wrath". So yea, it's the "not rebel, but not not-rebel" sea guy. Don't blame the Valar for this.

Turgon is the rightful king of the Noldor (says the book), Morgoth hates him, because Fingolfin, and because he's a friend of Ulmo, and because Turgon's vibe scares him. We have a wonderful line about how even back in Valinor Morgoth was anxious every time he saw Turgon and tbh this is criminally underexplored in fics (this whole period is) and must have been quite hilarious.

Hurin disses Morgoth, Morgoth curses him and his wife and kids, takes him high up, and curses him again for a good measure.

Results of that: in the next chapter.

[sorrowssinger]

atariince

Curufinwë gave his brother a stern stare which was more expressive than any speech, but the youngest of the two brothers didn’t manage to hinder his next sarcastic impulse, and the ironic reply came with an even more ironic bow of his head. “May you forgive my impetuosity, o brother dearest. Impulsiveness is not in my nature, but exceptional situations always tend to trigger off exceptional reactions, do you not agree?”

But Curufinwë was in no mood for jests and his cynical rhetoric revealed nothing but bitterness and disappointment. It wasn’t aimed at his brother in particular, but unfortunately, Macalaurë was the only person around, and thus was more likely to fall under the darts of Curvo’s ire. “Our enemy’s highlight relies on opportunism. Morgintho’s strategy is not that clever, but he is patient… and I daresay he knows about Elwë’s xenophobia and about his isolationist tendency… As a matter of fact, it was we who erred and gave our enemy this terrible advantage, for the Doriathrins’ reaction was to be expected. We should have prepared for it. We made a strategic mistake… And I do not blame Carnistir for his words, I blame us all for our lack of acumen.”

The blind pride of the Ñoldor was at stake again, and it was only now, while the consequences of their misjudgment were threatening their position in Beleriand, that Curufinwë could acknowledge it. After the first victorious meeting against the forces of Angband, and despite the Fëanorian’s great loss (the greatest of all loss) they had thought themselves to be - not the new almighty lords of Beleriand - but the saviours of Endorë who would easily defeat the enemy and free the lands from the shadow. And this narrow, self-centered expectation had deceived them. A great part of the Grey Elves, especially from Mithrim, had indeed acclaimed their return, and it had been enough for the Ñoldor to discard the possibility that not all the Úmanyar would welcome them… The blow had come only when they had found the borders of Doriath closed to their errands. The disappointment hadn’t only shattered their plans, it had also hurt their pride.

“… But now it is too late for regrets and sitting here moaning over our misfortune will bring us nowhere. We must act, and quickly, before idleness turn us all to vegetative cowards… I wish not for my conduct to resemble Thingollo’s. Besides, I fear our cousins’ demeanour and rancour. We both know that the children of Arafinwë will not hold their tongue much longer, and methinks Elwë and Melian will hear about Losgar and Alqualondë ere we fortify our lands.”

Macalaurë’s mouth twisted in a mockery of a smile as he nodded his acceptance of Curufinwë’s words. There was a certain impetuousness that did seem inclined to draw such reactions from them. He watched the droplets of wine trail down the wall as he listened and contemplated his brother’s words drawing out the wisdom and composing a counter argument all the same for Curufinwë was skilled at discerning some things he himself missed.

“As you say, our enemy is an opportunist, and not a very clever one, if he were would we not have long since fallen to him? He clearly had the means to do so else wise why would he care one wit for capturing Maitimo?” He set his glass aside and folded his hands together in his lap. “You say that was did not take Elwë’s policies into account and perhaps we did not. However that is not nearly as severe a problem as it seems on rather for the moment it is not. Point of fact it works to our advantage.”

“Yes, the greater part of those who lingered here in Endorë have accepted us to our benefit even. Yet it is also a drain on us. We now have to expend many resources to train them and teach them the ways of combat that are most effective against Moringotto’s servants. If we had Elwë and those who listen to him too then we would be further imposed in part because of those very policies you cursed our lack of foresight of.”

Macalaurë sighed in frustration shaking his head. “Nay, Elwë is hardly so foolish as to attempt to strike us. If he were then it would be all to simple to entice his away from him. He will wait a better time then arrange a fight against us, years from now when we are not so well regarded as protectors and allies. It is possible even that he knows already of the events at Alqualonde and has guessed about Losgar for our cousin Artanis has grown close to Melian. Swiftness is well yet not at the cost of thought, and anger over the unchangeable does little good for any.”

"The truth is... they are all idiots and even Nolofinwe agrees on that though he will refuse to actually say so."

Finish the sentence…

@sorrowssinger 

“I amafraid you are right, Kano.”

Curufinwënever had any taste for hypocrisy, and even though he knew, better than anyone,that diplomacy often required a certain amount of it, he could but scorn hisuncle’s policy toward Thingol’s provocations.

“Yet it isnot only a question of idiocy, brother. Elwë may be blind, but he is not a fool - not completely at least - and his strategy relies more on arrogance, selfishness and contempt thanon sheer stupidity . He only cares about his precious caves and refuses to see beyondthe Girdle. I would not mind, if only his people could be wiser than he is and joinour cause.” Curufinwë explained quietly with a lazy movement of his hand. “Unfortunately,they are as blind as their king. And so is Ñolofinwë.”

He wasupset and felt dangerously trapped between those two kings to whom he would never swearallegiance. His only king, his father, was no more, and it was he - with hiswisdom and political cunning - whom they needed the most in this dead-endsituation. “Had Ñolofinwë insisted – if only a little –  I am certain the Grey King would have eventually accepted a few mutual compromises. Actually, all it required was a clarification.”

After asigh which revealed most of his frustration, Curufinwë took a long sip of red wineand looked thoughtfully at his empty glass for a few seconds. “But our dear uncledoes not have the courage of his convictions, and while he prefers to believein the so-called benefits of the status quo, it is plain that the situation isproblematic and disadvantageous for the Noldor. And trust me brother, I woulddeem ourselves lucky if this state of affairs doesn’t not escalate and turninto an open conflict. In politics, nothing is more toxic than ambiguity. Ñolofinwëmay pretend that he and Thingollo speak on equal terms, the Noldor will not bedeceived: The Thindarin king keeps the upper hand, and if we are not careful,Kano, he might soon step on us… Before being stepped upon by the Enemy.”

Suddenly, and despite the apparent calm of hisvoice, Curufinwë threw his glass across the room. The crystal broke against thewall, splashing the floor with thousands of sharp, iridescent sparkles. “Whatof a waste of time and energy… Moringotho must be delighted.”

[dfwbwfbbwfbwf]

I might be weird, but I've actually never seen Lúthien's story as her bending over backwards for a man. I definitely understand that reading, and I'm hardly one to talk about bad takes given my take on Eöl and Areðel, which is a can of worms I'm not going to open here. Rather, I see the story as her making the world bend to her happiness.

I don't think she stayed in Doriath because she was just an unthinking, obedient woman. I think she did because she had nothing to gain from leaving. Morgoth was back by the time the Girdle came to be. Why would she leave? She might actually have to put her own interests second to help someone out there.

I think she left Doriath to go after Beren, well, for Beren in part, but also to spite Thingollo. She loves this scruffy, hobo dude, and she will marry him if it kills her. *Heh. Ironic.*

Not once during her quest did she think of anyone but herself (and Beren, but that could be in part because he was necessary for her plan). She saved people trapped in Tol Sirion, and that was good of her to do, but would she have done that if Beren wasn't there? Would she have left Finrod, her cousin, to die? ... I don't know, but I genuinely wouldn't be surprised.

People say "oh, their quest succeeded because of love". Did Fëanáro not love his father? Is this because he swore a terrible Oath while literally having a mental breakdown? Is it because he didn't agree to give the Silmarils to the Valar?

It's not fair that she succeeded in her endeavor after only months, while the Sons of Fëanáro failed in theirs after centuries. Even if they hadn't sworn the Oath, hadn't killed at Alqualondë, the Valar made it clear that they wouldn't help the Noldor in any capacity after Fëanáro refused them the Silmarils. But here, the Valar have their fingerprints everywhere.

I don't hate the Valar, but they make questionable and hypocritical decisions fairly frequently, especially in the First Age.

Lúthien didn't do this for a man. She did it for herself.

Not saying you're wrong in thinking what you do. I loved reading your response. :)

Lúthien the Powerful

Lúthien in the Silmarillion and in Beren and Lúthien is depicted as thing unfathomably beautiful, incredibly clever, astoundingly powerful woman. She can make cloaks of shadow with her hair. She can destroy towers with her Song. She makes flowers grow when she dances. She's incredibly kind and graceful and gracious and wonderful.

I can't stand her.

She is literally one of the strongest, most powerful Incarnates ever born, on par with Fëanáro himself. She is the only known offspring of an Ainu and a Child of Ilúvatar. She had the potential to use her power for great things, perhaps even greater things than her mother's Girdle.

I'm sure such a benevolent woman would use her powers to help fight Morgoth. Great power, great responsibility, and all that. Fëanáro used his gifts to help others - palantíri, lamps, an alphabet, and probably lots of little inventions we never hear about just to make lift a little easier.

But she didn't. Not that we know of. The only time she's mentioned actually doing anything other than hiding in Doriath is when she's working to steal already stolen property, which she can get away with because she doesn't have anyone actually depending on her the way the Sons of Fëanáro do - they have half of Beleriand depending on them holding Morgoth off, and she has one man who really, really needs her.

If she's this wonderful demigoddess, why didn't she do anything actually USEFUL, something that would benefit Beleriand without damning eight people to Everlasting Darkness (for all they knew; whether or not it actually happened doesn't matter as much as the fact that they thought that that would happen).

Fëanáro was born to live in Beleriand, a place that would benefit from his mind and inventions.

Lúthien was born to live in Valinórë, where she could dance and sing, and basically live like she did in Doriath - utterly unbothered. And I wouldn't mind her not doing anything really substantial if she was in Valinórë.

.... I should really go to bed now. I'm actually getting teary, that's how frustrated I am.

[erendur]

I watched the video, that bendy blade is awesome ! I had no idea they could bend like that ! I like the first sword best, though. Very Fëanorian (to my mind).

I see your point of associating Noldor and dwarves, and frankly it's a bit baffling that only Curvo and Celebrimbor (and Eöl) cultivated their friendship, because they have so much in common in that respect. But apparently the snooty Elves can't get over the fact that the Dwarves are not tall and pretty, so...

Fëanor makes impractical swords !! Oh, the diss ! And Curvo and Telpe stealthily try and improve the design, while suddenly all of the sons of Fëanor discover that no, really, Atya, they really vibe with the more sober designs made by Curvo and Telpe, it's purely aesthetic, no, they wouldn't like more gems on there, it's ok...

Or actually they have Telpe make all the good swords and Fëanor can't say anything because it's his only grandkid's work and he's so proud, so they can all have well-balances swords while Fëanor's creations decorate the walls at Formenos (Finwë always carries one by his side, because that's his Fefe's work).

Poor Maglor, I already can see him being Mae's most favourite target practice as he re-trained :( An explanation for his sudden interest in cavalry manoeuvres ?

As for Fëanor and knives, I have that headcanon that Finwë('s cooks) basically invented Japanese cuisine because it means everything is served in bite-size portions at the table and knives stay in the kitchen, a good practice when Fëanor and Ñolo are sitting at the same table.

True, Japanese swords are so much romanticised, they look super cool though. But it's so much a constant of Japanese culture, having to adapt to less-than-propitious environmental conditions/ressources, that it's a shame the specifics of Japanese smithing are not better known, because it's really cool and impressive. Btw, would a bloomery furnace require less fuel than a crucible furnace ? Because having to go round lack of fuel is another constant in Chinese/Japanese culture, and I find it funny that they also came up with amazing pottery furnaces/designs but had less effective furnaces.

I like your AR-15 to revolver analogy for Eöl's sword, no wonder they were like...ewww... bad vibes !

That "I have the high ground" thing was always a bit nonsensical, to be fair, but let's say Obi-Wan was under quite a lot of stress at that point ! He was like Mae pre-Sirion kinslaying, I'm sure he shouldn't be quoted too much on that :)

I had no idea samurai armours were meant for archery, they are som much associated with their sword, it's wild ! Super cool armour designs, btw.

Sorry about lack of falchions, and yes, it's a shame, they look very cool. Piraty :) I'm sure Tyelko would have vibed with that.

Thingollo married a Maia pretty quickly, so I'm sure he felt like he could just have a cool little sword and be done with it, he had enough of a shield as it was.

Re: older point about training, I was remembering a passage in Rabelais'Gargantua (XVIth century book about a giant) where he details the education and training regimen of Gargantua, and that is basically a spoof of Renaissance education treatises, in which he says that he trained in sworfighting, riding, jumping over fences in armour, and (vague quote, I haven't checked the ref) "crossing rivers dragging his coat between his teeth and holding papers in one hand, like Julius Caesar", a reference to a well-known and well-quoted physical feat of Caesar who while in Alexandria had escaped from an attack by his enemies by jumping from the Lighthouse into the harbour and crossing it swimming (no mean fit, the harbour was huge), while they rained arrows at him, all the while dragging his imperator coat between his teeth (a heavy, long woollen thing) so that it wouldn't be seized by his enemies and used to claim he was dead or just to humiliate him, and apparently holding up important papers in his hand above the water.

So I'm imagining an angry Náro burning so hot after exile/Ñolo in charge/ his wife leaving him that he routinely does that to try and cool down (before or after sword practise).

A Handy Device

I was just thinking about Nelyo fighting, and I thought about how disadvantaged he'd be with just the one hand. He can't half-sword properly. He can't grab an opponent's sword. He can't brace for better leverage as well. He doesn't have a full range of movement anymore.

So I came up with this dumb little device. It's a metal cap to put on his nub. It acts like a buckler, and can catch an enemy's blade while he pokes them in the head with his own. :3 The curved prongs are what would do most of the catching, and the horizontal piece of metal is basically a crossguard.

(Curvo made it for him, like, two months after he got back.)

[dfwbwfbbwfbwf]

Beren - 12 people

C² - 25 people

Finrod - 2 people

Lúthien - 5 people

Morgoth - 65 people

Nargothrond - 2 people

Thingollo - 61 people

Other - 4 people

I love that Morgoth, who's just sitting in his house and is a victim of robbery, is the one in the wrong. XD

[dfwbwfbbwfbwf]

I associate the Noldor with Dwarves because I see them as the two main cultures who are able to make practical, everyday things incredibly beautiful. Dwarves would probably use a variety of different colored metals to bring out the colors and shades of each, and the Noldor would use gems to make things glitter, but nothing they make - from a crown to a plow - is ugly. (I also hate to say it, but I don't think the swords Fëanáro himself made were the most practical. They were probably like a wall hanger sword - very pretty, and you can definitely kill someone with it if it's sharp enough, but not well balanced at all. But he did try!)

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I don't think Nelyo would change his preferred sword style post-Angband. It would take a while for him to get used to using his left hand and build up the strength and dexterity required for a hamd-and-a-half, but he could use a bastard or arming sword in the mean time. And he's got plenty of brothers to whack in practice. XD

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Fëanáro probably did make his swords freakishly sharp, because when it comes to knives (like, kitchen knives and hunting knives), you do want a sharper blade, and knives would be his best frame of reference.

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There are so many myths surrounding Japanese swords and smithing, and a lot of them are just not true, which is a real shame, because the truth is even more cool imo.

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Imagine Doriath being full of these weapons - certainly not bad, but not spring steel - and then Eöl's like "I wanna go to Nan Elmoth, and I'll give you this to leave me alone", and he presents Thingollo with a sword that's basically the sword equivalent of an AR-15 to a revolver. XD

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My knowledge about Japanese swords isn't super extensive, but iirc, nodachis were used in warfare mainly for the extra reach. I cannot stress how important reach is. Even an extra inch of reach can save or end your life.

(It's why you're actually better off to be on the low ground than the high ground in a swordfight, regardless of what Obi-Wan says. On the higher ground, it's much more difficult to protect your lower body, and you can't lean forward as far without going off balance.)

Sorry. Back to swords. It's not like katanas were never used, but I think they were more of a status symbol. Samurais weren't just warriors, but a whole class in society. They were trained from an incredibly young age to fight, and they served a lord as his bodyguards and property defenders. A common peasant wasn't allowed to talk badly about them, or they could be killed. They had privileges the peasants didn't have because of their status. (I also know samurai were more mountain archers than swordsman. Not that they couldn't do both, but their armor is made to accommodate archery.)

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There aren't a great deal of surviving falchions, sadly. It's a tragedy. 😔

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I mean, gold and bronze don't corrode as much as steel and iron do. They don't rust. You can bend them back into place with just your hands, maybe a few hammer taps. Only problem is that they'd be rather heavy, so the swords would probably be shorter. But that's what shields are for! :D

Maybe Thingollo's first sword was a little thing made of gold with a bronze edge. Nára - later Noron. Fire.

A Handy Device

I was just thinking about Nelyo fighting, and I thought about how disadvantaged he'd be with just the one hand. He can't half-sword properly. He can't grab an opponent's sword. He can't brace for better leverage as well. He doesn't have a full range of movement anymore.

So I came up with this dumb little device. It's a metal cap to put on his nub. It acts like a buckler, and can catch an enemy's blade while he pokes them in the head with his own. :3 The curved prongs are what would do most of the catching, and the horizontal piece of metal is basically a crossguard.

(Curvo made it for him, like, two months after he got back.)