#I really want to love alicole but the show doesn't

[queenvhagar]

Criston Cole is a knight of common birth in a medieval, feudalist world who rose to the highest position a knight could hold in the realm, who was pressured into sex with the member of the royal family directly responsible for his position as Kingsguard, resulting in him almost ending his life out of guilt for breaking his vow.

Alicent Hightower is a grown up child bride to an older king who was forced to perform her duties no matter the hour, who visibly disassociated during the act, who never had the luxury of thinking of her own desires at any point in her life, who birthed and raised her babies while still a child herself.

I would ask this show to explore how these two individuals overcame their sexual trauma and ingrained beliefs about duty and sex to start an extremely active sexual relationship but I know deep down that this is as far as the writers want to go with these characters in relation to this pairing:

[alicentsultana]

Some of my alicole beliefs and rants:

1. I think the want had always been there (especially when you're being fucked by a corpse, but we're not gonna talk about that today)

2. Religion and morality doesn't mean those who have/follow will stick to it.

3. Repression and trauma can change people and it reflect in their actions, including self-harm (as we see Alicent doing) and other things like drugs and alcohol (like Aegon does), fighting (like Aemond), but the cope mechanism here went to sex, as many people do. Like repressed people irl who are one person at home and away from their parents/family/partners are someone completely different. You cannot be pro lgbtqia+ and not know this, baby karen project...

4. Twenty fucking Jesus dancing years together. We see clear as day that Criston have to do the work that supposedly should have been Viserys' - like giving attention to his wife and kids, not forget their name and rather to find them dead. Let her drool on a dilf that practically raised her kids, for fucks sake

5. There's a lot to unpack. They might have done it at Driftmark, marking the death of duty, as we saw someone pointing out early. They give give give. And it's never enough, it's a doomed matter, even for them, after all, what's stopping them? Promises have already been broken, what do they have left?

6. It's easy to love Anne Boleyn an go Henry VIII on others, huh?

7. They are very much devoted to each other and it shows. And it goes beyond the religious undertones, she practically saved his life while he stopped her from falling from grace, despite being justified in her rage, now tell me, what would you feel if it were you?

8. I have the genuine impression that the targtowers kids know. It's monday for them, it send lights to Aegon's affairs, but that's Freudian talk. Criston didn't had to like or do anything for 4 brats, yet, we see how Aemond respects him, how he can freely chastise Aegon in public, how the show made us nothing but a disfavour, old news. And once again, there he was.

9. This is the less problematic relationship on this show, you wish it wasn't consensual, they had years to pull away.

10. From all the men around her, only one apparently hasn't failed her.

11. Emotional attachment. Both sides.

12. Viserys was emotionally unavailable first, unless you all think is normal to call the name of another wife, and look into my eyes and tell me he hadn't done it even in bed. Alicent eventual actions seems more than justified to me.

12. Rhaenyra is a topic between them, but well, is dragon criminal pussy really misleading them?

13. Good for them.

[very-straight-blog]

I hate this show so much. We didn't see Jaehaery's whole funeral, no Dreamfyre or Sunfyre burning the body, apparently Aegon is the only one in the whole family who cares about Jaehaery's, fucking Otto not thinking about his grandson who just lost a son but thinking about making propaganda and what the small folk would think of the ratcatchers like stfu no one wants you here, Aemond living in another dimension, Alicent seeing Aegon cry but instead of comforting him she just turns around and goes to fuck Cole... again, and I hate what they did to Helaena, that thing of her being a dreamer just to make her autistic coded so she doesn't have a personality, doesn't know how to communicate with other people, almost doesn't show emotions, doesn't like the smallfolk whe in the books she was an active Queen and the small folk loved her. I hate this show, fuck Alicole, fuck Otto, fuck Aemond, fuck Condal, fuck Hess. I'm gonna watch until ep 4 (the ones that focus on the Greens) and then I'm out.

It's actually really exhausting, especially after waiting for the second season for two years. The leaks about the following episodes also don't make the situation any better. Most of all, I'm probably sad because of the wasted potential - this series has a huge budget, great actors, but the writers who don't know how to do their job ruined it. It's very disappointing.

[sunfyredefender77]

If you had the chance to change something about the dance of the dragons (TV show or book), what would it be? For example, how a character dies, which team a house is on,or an entire character personally. How would you change it to make the story better, in your opinion?♥️🖤💙💚

Damn

That's a good question. I'm not sure if I would change anything about the book, BUT there are SO many things I would change about the show.

1. Rhaenyra and Alicent's friendship - I really loved them being friends on the show, but the book portrays something completely different. I would have loved to see them as they were in the book. I really don't know why they changed that, but I didn't really mind.

2. We NEED more Baela and Rhaena scenes, and I would definitely change their ugly wigs. Please give them something better.

3. OH, AND ALSO, I REALLY need Alicole to happen (please, please, please).

4. This might be the only thing I would change about both the books and the show - I'd have Jaehaera live and be the mother to Aegon III's kids. The way she died was completely unnecessary and brutal. I DO NOT WANT TO SEE IT.

5. WHY DID I NOT SEE AEGON RIDING SUNFYRE YET?! RAAAAAHHH, I WAS SUPPOSED TO SEE AEGON RIDING SUNFYRE AND HAELENA RIDING DREAMFYRE IN EP10. IF I DON'T SEE AEGON RIDING SUNFYRE IN THE FIRST 5 MILLISECONDS OF S2EP1, I'M NEVER WATCHING HOTD AGAIN. MAKE IT HAPPEN!

6. The whole Rhaenys and Meleys scene was like what?! It NEEDS TO BE CHANGED IMMEDIATELY. The creators wanted a badass dragon scene for the end so bad, and the only thing they created was a scene that DID NOT make sense. The fact that Meleys burst through the floor with Rhaenys on her back and Rhaenys didn't even get the smallest scratch is crazy and such bad writing. I loved Aegon's coronation so much, and the fact that it had to be ruined by this scene is sad.

7. DAEROOOOOOOON WHERE ARE YOU, screaming crying. I'm starting to have feeling they are just gonna pretend that Daeron doesn't exist, they are gonna completely cut him out

[ride-thedragon]

HOTD CHARACTERS AS ALBUMS:

Alicent Hightower as 30 by Adele.

Now that we are finally here, and I'm starting with my faves.

What is 30 by Adele?

It's her latest album that covers the topic of her divorce and the challenges she faces in the wake of it with the idea of motherhood impacting her decisions and thoughts around this time. Her signature ballads and intertwining of genres are apparent, but the story she invokes is that of trials and a time of change in her life.

So Alicent?

Yes. It's the album I think best fits her arc in season one and prepares for the rest. Let's go through this song by song. But also go listen to the album and think of her because at the end of the day. This is my interpretation.

30 x Alicent.

Strangers By Nature

Now, this first song is the introduction to the album. She's apologising to Lovers from the past, the present, and the ones in the dark. Taking back anything done wrong against them and saying that by the end, they were all strangers by nature to her.

If we are talking about Alicent I think that's were season 1 leaves her. So much is being uncovered about her and her character especially outside of Viserys in Episode 9 I think it's a good song within that context.

No one really knows her now, fully to her entire extent. How she loves, what she does to ensure she's kept aware of situations, what she stillnholds on to is kept guarded and compartmentalised for certain things.

Easy on Me.

This was the biggest hit off the album. It's a song about a dissolving marriage, a song dedicated to her child and childhood, and overall, it is very Alicent.

I think it applies well as a reflection of who she had been. Trying to balance her love for Rhaenyra and her duty to her father and Viserys. The betrayal and anger and disagreements she found herself in.

Say what you will but as the bridge of the song puts it,

"I had good intentions

And the highest hopes

But I know right now

It probably doesn't even show."

If that isn't her, what is?

My Little Love

Now I find Adele just extremely Alicent coded, but the reason I chose this album instead of 21 or 25, for example, is because this album was dedicated to her child.

I refuse to explain this one. Go think of these gay lovers and cry your heart out because it hurts.

But also, it's a song of her explaining everything up until her divorce to her son. Kind of reckoning with the failure she feels and how stuck and stranding it all is.

For Alicent, I think it's the same. By the end, she's reconciling her past with her future. Trying to appease her want for Aegon to be crowned with her love for Rhaenyra and to an extent Viserys. She's also around all her children in episode 9, which is interesting when thinking about the song.

Cry Your Heart Out

Hello, season 2 Alicent. I genuinely think this is the direction it is going to go in because its just tragedy after tragedy for them. Especially when we see her under water and near water so much, baby girl, cry your heart out, it'll clean your face.

Oh My God

Alicole girls. Hi.

This is entirely Criston and Alicent coded for whatever they have going on.

I'm having a hard time doing this because I want you guys to go listen to it. But basically, the song is about this guy who she's with during this time who's her place of refuge with all he conflicting narratives and lies around her.

Also religion.

Can I Get It?

Otto fans, Rhaenyra fans, Alicent fans, and fans of her children. You get to decide who this is about. It's about wanting to be someone's after everything you've done for them, everything you've been through to be at their side. Counting for someone to put you back together after everything is...

I Drink Wine

Hey alcoholism. Genuinely, this is thee Rhaenicent song of the Album. How can someone become so bounded by the choices somebody else makes? And it just goes down from there.

All Night Parking Interlude

I'm going to say Criston. I think they genuinely found a sense of home together.

Woman Like Me:

Hello episode 1 to 10 Rhaenicent. Hello, Viserys Targaryen. It's basically her saying, "How dare you?" Do you know who I am? What is expected? And slaying.

Hold On

Episode 8 Alicent Hightower, the woman you are.

To Be Loved

Season 2 Alicent. "I will choose to lose it's a sacrifice" and "you have no idea the sacrifices made to put you on that throne." That arc is going to play out so well. I'm geeked. An ode to her conversation with Rhaenys as well.

Love is a Game

The effect of Otto Hightower on women recorded by Adele.

Wild, Wild West

Now, this is such a random part of the album, but I do think it's a part of the charm. Unlike Larys Strong, who I hope burns in hell. Anyways, because big pivotal moments happen to her in different places, let's say rats what this is.

Can't be Together

Rhaenyra and Alicent, the tragedy you are. I'm so sorry I wasn't it westeros to save you from this.

Conclusion

Listen to the album Alicent folk. Listen and see if it's your pick. It's certainly mine.

Next up is her counterpart, Rhaenyra.

[liaa--qb]

Might sound like a hater) I am not, I can't cope with some of helaegons and Rhaenicent. Helaemond hate coming from them is sheer hyporcrisy. I want to stan team green but ain't no chance if #those stans bully only one ship

yes yes....I know right ? And honest advise from me that fuck this team drama. Just be there for good story and enjoy the show.

Rhaenicents and Alicole jumping on helaemond is something really surprising n funny same time like why are you guys hating or being anti of this ship ?😂 bcz Rhaenicent n Alicole were way out of story but show did it and Baited Rhaenicents alot.

Regarding helaegons... bc one of my friends who says helaegon is ok for her because these two share a miserable life alot and it gives Aegon alot sympathy.( 😂 Mainly She loves tom glynn Carney and so do I😍) and how can one not like him ? 😭 that's only answer 😂

I don't think heleagon is supposed to have any love but I prefer it with helaegond( threesome) more. I don't hate heleagon infact I like it and this ship is fine or ok👍 as long as someone don't try to make it romantic which it never was n never could be n show destroyed remaining chance for it.

Aegon doesn't need helaegon for sympathy. His life is enough for that. His whole thing with his son jeh was really good for example. He doesn't love Helaena but he knows that she is his family member who he has to standby nomatter whether he likes or not.

Helaena and Aegon are two people who don't like each other but also would not harm eachother any badly because they are family. But they are stuck forcefully by their family together n left to suffer from their marriage which both of them never wanted. Aegon tries with Helaena in his own way but his way we all know ( is extremely silly, bad n less pateint😅) which never helps him so he hates n gets bored with his relationship. Then suddenly he is finding appreciation and new chance from Kingdom and all people.

Him loving helaena was never any character shaping of huge thing. His own story arc was enough for making him less evil or I say worthy of sympathy.

While reading book I never shipped Helaena with Aegon and Aemond infact I would have shipped Daeron more with her but he was smaller. Though Show became bit different thanks to Ewan n Phia

And one not liking any ship is fine as long as they don't troll or bully any other ship Stans. What I hate about some helaegon Stans is that they ok with history of Aegon n him cheating on helaena on several times and still considering him loving while expecting full purity shit from Helaena n acc to them she should not fuck any other person even if it was with consent.

Same people are now supporting Alicole which was so ooc if I talk about how they were s1. ( Sorry I am Alicole shipper but they way they executed it was not good at all😑 they are doing anything with character of Criston specially at this point) while helaemond despite of being more logical than Alicole n some other ships being Targeted is..😕😒

I myself like Rhaegon more and I find it more interesting than Rhaenicent and Daemyra but I would not harras whole time the other ships of rhaenyra

Mind you Helaegon, Rhaenicent, Alysmond, were way toxic than helaemond but still if people behave this way then...what can one say

[horizon-verizon]

I'm YOU but I'm crossing my fingers that the Alicole thing is a lie. I can't take the crazy writing decisions of this show anymore!! Can someone in the writing room give consistency to TG?! Certainly the blacks were robbed and diminished but they are also moderately consistent in their writing

I swear I'm crying and pulling my hair, hitting my head to see if a concussion makes any of this make sense. Alicent "you are the threat Aegon", Alicent "OMG they planned an usurpation?!" Alicent "she will kill my children", Alicent "UPS my son killed hers", Alicent "I want his eye", Alicent "Aemond be good to those guys ❤️" Alicent "extramarital sex is bad", Alicent "Cole is the exception". What do you want Alicent?! What do you really believe in?! This goes beyond being hypocritical and using patriarchy to her advantage, What Alicent believes from one chapter to the next changes according to the need of the script. Just give that poor woman some consistency, the cognitive dissonance can't be that strong 😭

If I have to grab Show!Alicent and analyze her motives, what she wants and what she is... I'm left blank. She is a plot device that instead of allowing her to move the plot they kept her locked away and untouchable. She's not nuanced, she's inconsistent.

I can't be bothered, I've long given up on the show. I'm here for memes, article links, the dragons, and enjoying being proven right as obnoxious as that seem or is. To me, this show and its writers have been obnoxious, sexist, and condescending. Sure the dragons will be entertaining if maybe not as colorful as they should be--which might just be a trailer-specific dilution to otherwise make the preimeire that much more visually stunning--but I have a sneaking suspicion the writing will fall too short for other characters or contradict itself again.

Alicole will be just hilarious to me.

But to get into Alicent's character (bc I can't resist):

"OMG they planned an usurpation?!"

I believe it wasn't that they planned a usurpation, but that she was left out of their plans and those plans being to murder Rhaneyra. About the murdering Rhaenyra part, I do look 👀 at her, bc...this is a usurpation and you have already tried to get this women/her kids' lives ruined on multiple occassions or put those kids' lives in danger! Clear inconsistency. However, the fact that these men planned without including her at all is definitely a good thing in terms of her hypocritical characterization--the leopards have eaten her face. It's just her immediate desire to save Rhaenyra out of "love" is some crazy ass bullshit.

Alicent "she will kill my children", Alicent "UPS my son killed hers"

By the 2nd I take it you meant her surprise in how Aemond could have ever killed her kid during an envoy mission before Rhaenrya could try to any of them, thus immediately proving herself/Otto wrong. I'm fine with this actually. Again, describes and paints her hypocrisy, and the problem is that she then continues (by the trailers) try to diminish it as Aemond wanting semi-righteous revenge. To me, despite the whole kin-slaying being a huge cultural no-no, Alicent is also betraying Viserys' and going against his word before Aemond kills Luke. She has always been this way.

Alicent "extramarital sex is bad", Alicent "Cole is the exception".

Same as above. Alicent may make herself-Criston the exception bc she is at least "hiding" her relationship and (MAYBE, if it began after Viserys died) it was not while she was married...as if this would matter to the Andal-Faith patriarchal authorities of womanly behavior and totally save them from their condemnation?! Think of Otto's reaction if he were to know? He would either be as horrified and shocked, or he already knows and keeps mum bc it is towards his benefit but he'd still resent & be disgusted with her or accuse her of being sluttish privately as if he's the paragon of sexual ethics. Again, perfectly shows her hypocrisy.

Really, it's that she doesn't have her bk!counterpart's ruthless politicking except in one episode out of 10 (the 6th one). It's ruined by the implication that she cannot really think or reason bc she was SAed for most of her married life and pimped out, which spells some disturbing, oversimplifying implications for SA victims and esp those who are femme, female identifying, or women/girls. From the already-there notion of femininity being innately "irrational", creative, and nonintellectual.

But I also ultimately agree with you abt her being more a plot device than a character who does what the script of the day requires her---once more, bc she's forced to delusionally see possible friendship in Rhaenyra AND bc she doesn't have a clear, steady, personal motive separate from the stuff Otto-the-individual imparts on her and that guides her actions aside from blind envy and a need to see everyone conform towards the "peace for the realm" that she herself doesn't even follow. Not like with Rhaenyra's desire to find some sort of functioning and the least self-erasing compromise b/t duty and happiness/autonomy when we see her w/Aemma.

We never truly established what Alicent wanted at the core--in the bk, that was the highest rank, prestige, etc. possible for a woman. In the first season, all the possible possibilities and things you can see in Olivia's portrayals show a woman wanting to find final validation within the system...but we needed a more concrete aim aside from her jealousy and other than fear of her kids dying, which is what we were left with. Show!Alicent went wherever the wind took her (the wind here Otto, perceived expectations of her, and her own resentments). That's the heart of the grand inconsistency, I think. The void that is this character.

They never replaced Alicent's loss of ambition with something just as self-serving than just "she should suffer like me" that guides and justifies that inner feeling into the real world. Something that would keep her interesting and engaged with the war players.

Rhaenyra still has huge issues in her characterization that I already went over in other posts. This article by some Substack writer also gets into it, but overall, Rhaenyra is more steady & concrete than Alicent.

[daenysx]

don't look under the cut if you haven't seen the first episode yet angels <33

okay, i cried twice watching it and i don't know it might be cause of hormones or something BUT jace and rhaenyra reunion was really good and jace looks great (he def looks like a stark and i'm living for it)

seeing daemon again was amazing considering him being my favorite before having aemond, i love matt smith's daemon so much and he didn't disappoint. for me, daemon is the character who always makes me expect something terrifying to happen because he's impulsive and he resembles a dragon too much and i can't wait to see more of him this season (he's like my first love in hotd lol and he's insane i love him your honor)

AND coming to my mad bf now. first, i love how ewan curves his lips when he speaks, it's like an important piece of aemond and he does it so well. what i like most about this ep is seeing how he's aware of things especially his mother's love for rhaenyra and how she thinks he started the war. he is aware of his power when he's with vhagar but also it felt like he doesn't brag about it like he used to, he seems kind of reluctant now that he couldn't control his dragon once (it's what i felt watching but of course you might disagree) and- i don't know, it so nice to see him back (and the look he gave to alicent sitting at the table- i love him so much!)

(i've always loved the dynamic between daemon and aemond, especially when i first read them in the book. i don't know if the show will be different but so far i'm getting what i want from them. ewan and matt will be perfect delivering the resemblances and differences between them i just love seeing them being aware of the opposite because they have a lot in common and they both look so good, it's a delight to see them)

AND FINALLY BLOOD AND CHEESE

the book version is different as you probably know and reading that was HORRIFYING to me. helaena and her children never deserved that but that's the key thing for both hotd and game of thrones, innocent women and children suffering for crown conflicts and men's decisions. phia saban is amazing, i cried when helaena was leaving the room it was so heartbreaking even though the plot is different from the book but honestly i was expecting to see more tension

of course i don't expect the same plot for each occasion in the book, but blood and cheese is essential for many things and i wouldn't include alicole into this. i don't know what we'll see at the beginning of the next episode but hopefully we get so see more of helaena (i honestly don't have anything against alicole but i never felt them being too important for me, they didn't surprise me but you know, maybe just for this scene i wanted to focus on only helaena)

overall, it's amazing to see all of them back. i missed watching hotd so much and i missed the fandom. these are my first thoughts based on the episode (i literally finished watching it 5 minutes ago) my inbox is always open for your opinions if you wanna share something, love u all <333333

[zephyrrr101]

OMG OMG OMG!!! HOTD SEASON 2 EPISODE 1: BLOOD AND CHEESE!!!

Okayyyyyy! Boy! I just saw it and I have so much to rant and talk about!!!

But before we go into it, for those who hasn't seen it yet,

this is a spoiler! Below the cut

So don't venture if you don't want to loose your fun.

The first and foremost thing we see is Wolf Woods and Winterfell. And man! Did I not feel nostalgic!

Cregan Stark is carrying a sword through out the journey to top of the wall, probably Ice.

I really like the way they have changed Jace here. The hairstyle, the words, the way of talking to a Lord. This Jace is what I connect to, the one we know about in books.

Emma D'Arcy! You woman! I love you! I love you so so so much. Rhaenyra doesn't has more but one dialogue in the whole episode but through out it all I can see her speak. Every scene made me cry. Rhaenyra stands at the edge of castle, looking to anything she could, I would say to even hold a false hope of Luke being alive. Her desperate climb through the stones when she hears fishermen yell about the Dragon wing (Arrax's), her clutching Luke's clothes, looking at last memories that she has of his. It's lovely.

We finally also see Mysaria. Her interaction with Daemon is brilliant. She is shown as who she is. A woman who works for gold. I have no disappointment here.

Larys, you foxxy bastard, look at you trying to put Otto out of his position. Filling both Aegon and Alicent's ears with poison against him.

Aemond, struts into the council room, you cunty little bastard. I loved Ewan every moment of him. That is exactly how I expect Aemond to be.

Aegon. Loved it too. We see him in more than just a sorry ass drunk. Fine-fucking-ly. I like how he takes control of the throne room the second time Otto tries to tell him what to do. I'm really ready to see Otto get kicked out of his position. But boy. You sweet not to sweet anymore summer child, what are you doing. You can't call your unhinged brother loyal as a dog when he's planning war behind your back, something even your granddad is pointing at.

ALICOLE!!! Woohoo you people! Yes they are fucking! They are fucking right the moment when Blood and Cheese come and kill Jaehaeyrs.

While speaking on the matter, (Please don't attack me, this is only my analysis of show and somethings I compare from the book). Blood and cheese is disappointing. To me atleast. Child murder, of course it's not right, very, very, very bad. But I rather like the book part. We have no Maelor up until this stage in the show so it's basically making Helaena choose between her twins which, I'm sorry, looks stupid. The whole point of it was making a choice between two sons. The Greens basic usurpation is based on the fact that Rhaenyra is a woman. So why the hell would Helaena be forced to chose between her daughter and son. It would have been obvious that she would have chosen Jaehaera to be dead over Jaehaeyrs. She is not an idiot. We know.

And if we talk about the show sow why she did it? My reason, perhaps she doesn't wants her son to see or face what is coming. Or maybe she had seen what he doesn't wants it.

Helaena at the start in the first scene when Aegon comes looking for Jaehaeyrs tells him "What if he doesn't want it?" It feels like a call back to times when Aegon didn't want it. But still, she knows a woman's life is much worse in Westeros specially in time of war, so why save a girl who would lead a bad life instead of the son who actually had a chance to get out of that. Is it a call back to Viserys choosing Rhaenyra over Aegon? Wouldn't know until next scenes.

Rhaena. We see her on the council table and while they are burning Luke's and Arrax's remains. I wanted to cry just seeing her. She looks so distraught.

Daemon wearing his MURDER CLOAKKKKKK!!!

YAYAYAYAYAY!!!

I love how he paid that Gold Cloak to do his bidding and how that man went "Commander" and "Fuck the Hightowers". We see the loyalty of the Gold Cloaks to Daemon that we know from books and the first season. Loved every moment of that.

Well, that's what I think about it.

[sentys]

hotd 2.02 spoilers below the cut:

oh, you didn't want to be a father to your sons and would rather play with your legos all day? WELL, GUESS WHAT MOTHERFUCKER?!

not sure that i needed to see aemond in a brothel with some rando. like, honestly, who fucking cares? i'm not even an alysmond shooter like that and maybe it's just the demisexual in me, but ffs, what did that even add???

... but i do appreciate seeing aemond in little to nothing at all, so gotta take the good with the bad. 🤷

they are just making criston a cartoon villain with no redeeming qualities, like maybe don't do that with your 1 dornish representation :/

seriously, criston's inner conflict would be hitting so much harder if they put any thought into making him a multifaceted character with outwardly likeable traits or maybe even a healthy relationship/dynamic with his fellow kingsguard.

truly appreciate that baela was allowed to have lines, nay- a whole conversation that gave her depth! baela the brave, we love u.

is mysaria actually leaving or are they keeping her for the rest of the series? ngl, i liked her this episode and wanted more of her insight from the smallfolk perspective. but if she's high-tailing it out of westeros because sonoya mizuno is booked for other projects, then good for her. i don't know that i want to see mysaria get the short end of the stick like her ultimate fate in the book.

how is it that the cargyll clash was far more tense than b&c? maybe it's because they got 2 1/2 episodes worth of screentime between s1-2? idk.

daemyra going through their divorce era. yikes.

i straight up didn't think she would actually call him out on his grooming of her!!! maybe those rumors were true and emma d'arcy really doesn't want to co-sign any of that shit and so they asked for reduced scenes with matt.

on the flipside, they need to let go of rhaenicent because it's hindering alicent's character.

DAERON MENTION, LET'S GOOO!

more alicole sex, and for what? they're already using them as a narrative scapegoat for b&c.

aeg2 having his little moment with helaena on the stairs and then sobbing over little jae later on.

no seriously, let alicent comfort her son, PLEASE!

they showed his body? stitches and all??? wild.

you reap what you sow, otto. i have very little sympathy, if at all.

you know ... if they weren't so inconsistently written, i might've enjoyed corlys and rhaenys post-coitus a looot more.

it wasn't nearly as bad as it could've been, given the sara hess of it all. granted, i've given up on the writing/directing at this point.

[thesunfyre4446]

But also ..I can't take seriously who act like their HC is canon and who want Alicent entire excistence to ber about her ''situationship''

The hate for Alicole is not even because it contradicts Lesbian!Alicent or hate for Criston himself ,but the possibility of Ali caring romatically or having very deep friendship with someone else instead of Nyra is not okay for them.

And it's even more wild if you think about how Rhaenicent is meant to be a tragedy ship ,one that is good because the last drops of love are toxic and obsessive .So making Alicent trying to reach out to Nyra is not only it's so damn occ ,but it misses the point of the ship ,at least in this universe (though i don't know if Rhaenyra and Alicent actually work) .

And they are the ones that ,in the name of ''showing how much motherhood is hard'' make Ali hates her kids and abandom them .

But that principle doesn't apply to Rhaenyra .Because she is ''the perfect mother'' and ''her kids are amazining'' ,so she doesn't have to abandom them.

Sorry for the rant ,i just felt like you understod .

AND THAT anon was truly an ass and i hope you never have to interact to people like that ever again.

(Love your posts ,btw)

awwww thank you!!!!

yeah this fandom has a huge problem separating HC from canon. HC and ships are fun. ship what you like! that's the whole point of being in a fandom! but the problem is when people start to attack other people for not having the same opinions, and can't separate HC from the actual show \ book.

alicent loves her children and at the end of the day, even if she was in love with rhaenyra when they were young, they've spent the last 20 years being enemies. like... come on guys. alicent never even considered putting rhaenyra over her own children. and why should she? they are her children, and rhaenyra has been her enemy for the past 2 decades.

Rhaenicent is an interesting ship. and i'm not against it. but as an alicent fan, i really hate the "alicent only loves & lives for queen rhaenyra's sake" take.

yeah that anon was.... upsetting. thank you ;)

[hellsbellschime]

Sorry rant incoming but i'm tired of how weird this fandom is towards alicent's relationships. You have targ stans shading her for being a poor replacement of aemma in the eyes of viserys ; rhaenyra stans clowning her for sleeping with the guy who is still obsessed with their fave ; rhaenicents viewing her as someone pathetically pining after rhaenyra ; alicoles wanting her to be cole's devoted pseudo wife. None of those people really care about alicent herself. Like I just want her to experience for once what it feels to be with someone who respects her, doesn't use her as a placeholder and genuinely loves her more than anyone. But the writers of this show hate her as much as the audience does so it's never happening...

I think Criston ACTUALLY loves her, and her children actually love her, and I think Otto actually loves her, but c'est la vie when you exist in a dysfunctional family.

[alicentsultana]

I saw your modern! au post and here are some thoughts:

I feel like the Hightower's in a modern au would own a really fancy university in Oldtown plus a Church.

Otto's older brother, I believe he's named Hobert Hightower in the show? anywayyyy he's like the owner of everyone, Otto is a professor and Alicent kinda followed in to his footsteps.

She met Viserys after Aemma dies? Kinda like Viserys started going to church lol and Alicent was already going to church so they meet, he grows an attachment, she feels weird about it? Because let's say here Viserys and Otto were University buddies? Like Viserys was sent to Oldtown to study met Otto they became friends, then Viserys moved back to KL but they still somewhat kept in touch.

But Otto sees Viserys's interest in Alicent as something good, because the Targaryen's are filthy rich so he hopes Alicent and himself by extension will get benefits through Viserys.

Alicent married Viserys, let's imagine she was barley 19? Because a Stepmom to 9 year old Rhaenyra who hated her guts (it's honestly just and expected reaction I think because the poor lil girl just lost her mom and now her dad brings in his new wife so she feels abandoned in a way) and an asshole brother in law Daemon who keeps insulting and laughing at her.

Then there's Criston who's...hmmm a newly hired bodyguard for the Targaryen's? He was mainly in charge of Rhaenyra, him and Alicent don't interact much beyond pleasant hellos and stuff.

After 9ish years? Of a toxic marriage Alicent just has enough of dealing with Viserys, his neglect and straight up bad behaviour towards her. Let's say Aegon is 9, Helaena 8, Aemond 7, and Daeron 2. She takes the kids and hires a lawyer (for the sake of plot lol let's say her lawyer is Larys Strong 🤡) she gets some shares in whatever business Targaryen's have and moves back to Oldtown.

This is getting long lol so to be continued....

Omg I LOVED THAT

Annon if you ever plan to write it or just rumble about it SIGN ME IN!!!!

The post for those who want to read/recap.

Larys as lawyer is 10/10, I wonder how the audit turned out, will viserys fight for custody? Does he visits? The children together have roughly a great percentage of Targwhatever inc than Rhaenyra, I believe someone would try a lawsuit, just to spice things up.

Wouldn't judge the girl either, she just lost her mother and her father is already thirsting around... but I do want her to be close to her siblings, and then everything going -360°

I would love to read and think about Alicent's motivation, do you think otto used religion to say this was right or do you think she ever held some personal ambition? I picture her abandoning her studies to marry, is something that always comes to me, I also would go as far as bringing any kind of kink from his side while she's quite clueless, adding those very dark undertones, he thinks he's in the right.

Also, I must come my alicole bs so bear it with me - he's hating work for this targashian/townner clan, Alicent doesn't have money to keep him when she moves out with the children - so he just find some work around? Maybe even helping in the church, one hour travel to old town every weekend... In the Seven we trust

Please continue, this is sounding awesome!

[reservedlisting]

I normally dont make posts on tumblr but considering I dont want to continue harassing people on discord with my thoughts about hotd I'm gonna rant here :') this is literally just for me and i dont expect anyone to read this or make any sense of my insane ramblings.

this show is SO SO SO SO SOOOO SO0O0O0O0O00o0oo0o0o0o0o baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad! I could and have written an entire thesis about it so I won't do that here but my god it's offensively bad.

The way that women are written and in turn men are written in juxtaposition to women. As a woman I am genuinely offended and Im dutch and me so I dont get easily offended. Yes, I have some issues with how George writes women and girls but fundamentally women are allowed to be humans and be flawed but also have those flaws pointed out in the story. In that way men and women arent any differently written in asoiaf.

Hotd women are allowed to be flawed (Only Alicent's flaws are lingered on though) but also lets gloss over it when its convenient so that we can pretend women are all just peaceful little lambs and its the evil men that want bloodshed (Nvm rhaenyra having the servant killed so she can marry Daemon and have her husband leave under threat, alicent having larys burn Mysaria's house down, Rhaenys literally having the highest body count by committing acts of terrorism during the coronation). Until we are actually given a Very Good Reason :tm: the reason being this prophecy bullshit that has infused the show with the worst writing imaginable. They didn't learn from season 1 when everyone already hated the prophecy inclusion, nope they just doubled down on it. Just having to hear rhaenyra yap yap yap about this shit made me wish I was aborted like the alicole baby.

Its also so funny how they're like ah yes we'll have this person call rhaenyra a whore or a cunt so that we are in fact reminded that these are bad people that we shouldnt support. Like wow thanks for that signal show, I didnt pick up your more "subtle" clues. Then i have to see tweets with 20k+ likes about how criston deserves to die.. not daemon though for actually choking rhaenyra or calling alicent a whore (because the audience actually agrees with that lbr)

Then there is the BLATANT biased. It's about as subtle as a brick to the face. Condal (who is a clown for many reasons) pretending theres some kind of equality between the sides doesn't actually make it so. it's so obvious that they want everyone to support Rhaenyra and despite her completely irrational behaviour. Oh no those sexist lords in the council, meanwhile she's been off for days on end and then comes back with nothing to offer and then leaves AGAIN. As if these men arent risking their own hides by supporting her. Ofc Rhaenyra wants to go to war but is "smartly" talked out of it because "ohno cant risk you" and meanwhile everything that Aegon does is painted as stupid even though they almost work out.

Why am I supposed to think Aegon is an idiot for thinking that a king needs to be on the front line? as they have been many times throughout history? Of course he's gonna be pissed when they make plans without him. And then you have useless Alicent, never have I been turned off a favourite character so quickly and I genuinely loved her in s1, they really had to try very hard here but they've managed to make me dislike her. You're not logan roy girl, youre just boring as fuck and contribute absolutely nothing. Maybe you shouldve actually tried to prepare Aegon for rule in the decades since he was born instead of whining about how your evil sons dont listen to you.

its funny how tb people on twitter were made about comparison posts about aegon and alicent vs paul atreides and Lady Jessica. Because somehow Paul killing 61 billion people is less bad than whatever Alicent and Aegon do... meanwhile I'm actually mad that Alicent isn't in fact remotely like lady jessica. I genuinely wish she was because at least that would make her compelling. Instead of this useless figure we see now. Her relationship with her children especially aegon was always fraught. But she clearly loved them. Despite my hate hate relationship with ep8 that moment between Aegon and Alicent in the carriage and in the dragonpit was one of the best moments. Now even that is ruined.

The blatant bias really shone through in episode 4 to the point that I just had to laugh. And then reading what condal has to say or what TGC said they wanted him to do. I might as well be reading tb fanfic on ao3 and I might get to read a fairer treatment of the characters.

The fact that we also have seen extensive scenes of tb with their dragons but sunfyre, the most beautiful dragon and Aegon, the two that have the strongest bond get about 1 sec cause god forbid people actually like Aegon and see a human side to him. Ofc Condal said that was propaganda and that Syrax the golden was actually his fave dragon (truly a clown of a man).

On top of that they just pile all the shit on Aegon but ofc we must remember that he is a rapist and we cannot support him. Funnily enough it's made him the most compelling character by a country mile. Actually might be the only compelling character atp.

Aemond is a clown, alicent ditto. Tb are all boring as shit. Cant even include a lil bit of bastard drama for rhaenys and corlys cause obviously she's soooo understanding. YAWN. She's also super courageous ofc. And then there's ofc the stans who will defend anything their fave does cause stan brainrot. Instead of calling out the shitty writing they'll just double down that their fave did nothing wrong (aka aemond and alicent stans mostly, cause i dont even see tb's idiotic takes most of the time)

And its such a waste cause they have this giant budget, it looks pretty and there's tiny glimpses of interesting things and themes here and there but these writers are simply not competent, they're in fact incompetent. Half the show reads as fanfic and i say that with all due respect to fanfic as an avid reader.

then there's also the fact that they manage to create zero emotional connection with anyone so even scenes that are supposed to be good just arent. Like why the fuck would i give a shit about the cargyll twins killing eachother? cause you put some good music under it?

dont even get me started on b&c... i wasnt even planning on watching this season and i heard the complaints about b&c and i thought no way is it that bad. I saw gifsets they looked fine. And then I (stupidly) decided to tune in and I literally burst out in laughter cause the way it was filmed was just comical in places?!?! it was even worse than i had anticipated after the complaints somehow?!

Funnily enough sunfyre's cries were the only time I actually felt a strong emotion watching this show (other than the anger I feel at how bad this show is)

It's funny how people say that f&b bad and a dry historical account and sure but even then George manages to make me feel more about characters with one line that this show manages to do with all the power that a visual medium has.

and let me not forget about this show's sudden need to have its tongue firmly lodged up viserys' ass, what a great king indeed.

AANND then there's the PANDERING to the worst of the d*ny stans (who funnily enough dont even appreciate being pandered to so congrats condal). Rhaenyra is and never will be dany. This show is really written for the sansa will braid dany's hair crowd. Iykyk. Forcing in that friendship beyond the point of reason making the characters just acts stupid, and not in a people act stupid way but in its actually bad writing way. And then having to force in the prophecy even more for that and to give rhaenyra a righteous reason. And lets not forget the white stag in season 1 but sure Condal doesnt take sides Then the addition of the dragon eggs which he finally had to walk back probably cause he sensed the rancid vibes i was sending his way. Its so clear that HBO wants to sell their Boss Queen merch but then actually she's written in a way that's so bland and wants to take absolutely no action that there isnt really anything remotely boss bitch about her, completely coasting on young rhaenyra's personality cause older rhaenyra is again boring as shit. I guess now that she has Viserys' "permission" to rule she'll actually do something but i really dgaf at this point. But sell that merch I guess

Every time its some reviewer saying NOWWW the rREALLY great episode is coming on and every time im disappointed and episode 4 actually infuriated me to the point I had to stop watching and rant on discord several times.

this also never shouldve been the story told directly after game of thrones cause its so obvious how much theyve been influenced by it and writing in response to it, to its detriment. And now I'll never actually get to watch a good version of the dance. And if the viewership keeps dropping i might not see any good awoiaf adaptation again

I thought that after season 1 and the time jumps out of the way they might produce something half way decent but NOPE its somehow MUCH WORSE

Anyway hope Condal gets haunted like Daemon has been. Fuck him and this garbage show.

I havent even touched on everything here and this is completely incoherent but writing something coherent and semi intelligent is just more effort than this show is worth. Anyway call me when a knight of the seven kingdoms comes out, I can't imagine they could fuck that up. But who knows what new depths of shitness we might reach.

at least d&d had the decency to give us a few good seasons

[homielander]

hey! hope you’re doing well! <3 wanted to ask, what about cole’s depiction did you not like after hotd ep. 5? cuz i totally agree; felt like the writing in terms of his character was more compelling earlier in the season, and i am bitter with the timeskips basically robbing us of a lot of character dynamics (love alicole dynamics and cole/ali’s kids, but i wanted more!!) hoping next szn will be better esp since fabien said a lot of his scenes will be with a certain actor (i’m predicting ewan)

hello! thank you, and i hope you're doing great <3

we can't have any discussion about criston in this show without first considering his encounter with rhaenyra, and the dubious consent on criston’s part.... it's been discussed to death already, but i will reiterate: he only went inside her chambers to get his helmet. he asked her to stop. then he tried to go for the door (and was blocked from leaving). he was visibly uncomfortable. she was in a position of power over him. i'm not saying rhaenyra intended for him to feel this way, but that doesn't change that their perceptions of the situation seemed very different. i need people calling him an "incel" for hating rhaenyra to be sooo for real right now.

the problem is (and this has happened more than a few times on this show) that the writers clearly intended to communicate something different with that scene than what came across to a bunch of viewers. so i suppose based on what they intended to portray, criston couldn't resist temptation, slept with rhaenyra, then blamed her for his own poor decision. the issue is that it's difficult to show this considering we don't have access to criston's thoughts in a tv format, so after ep 4 aired i was pretty squicked out but decided to reserve judgment until we got to witness the fallout. and ooh boy what a fallout it was

when rhaenyra refuses his offer to flee to essos, there is literally no sign of heartbreak on criston's part (and i never got the impression that either criston or rhaenyra harboured any romantic feelings for one another, they seemed very friendly). instead, he's upset because he realizes rhaenyra initiated and pressed for sex when she didn't truly value him. for him, love is the one thing that might have surpassed the importance of his vows, and when he realizes rhaenyra doesn't actually feel that way about him -- that she put him in a situation where he felt pressured to taint the sanctity of his kingsguard station even though he told her it was the highest honour ever bestowed upon him or his house -- he stops deluding himself into believing that he feels that way about her too. that's why his dialogue in that scene explicitly spells out "i thought All That could have been worth it but clearly i mean nothing to you" instead of "my love and devotion was all for naught :(" (moreover, she refuses his offer by talking about her duty and her obligations, after undermining his, like, the night before. i'm sure he appreciated that lol)

i really think that scene on the ship was the moment the writers could have recontextualized for us whether their encounter was criston giving into long-held attraction or criston being violated (and subsequently doing his best to cope), and nothing about it gave me any reason to believe it was the first. (he felt immense gratitude towards her, sure, but that only intensifies the power imbalance)

so the issue is that post-episode 5, criston is bitter and resentful towards the woman who effectively coerced him into sex -- and he is villainized for it! (like that scene where he called rhaenyra a cunt... seriously? of course no one should be using that word offensively in reference to a woman, but how many times has daemon called women -- who have done nothing to him btw -- gross things only for every character who heard to ignore it?) it's the same deal with the madonna-whore complex they've attempted to show. i take serious issue with extrapolating that criston actually hates all women who are sexually promiscuous because of his feelings towards a woman with whom he had an awful experience (that, if it were up to him, never would have happened). it should be noted that the only woman aside from alicent and rhaenyra he's interacted with is the prostitute in 1.09, and he was perfectly polite with her. of course he has strict ideas about what rules women should abide by, but these strict ideas are not limited to the opposite sex. he's even more harsh with himself to the point where he nearly commits suicide when he breaks his personal code.

the other major part of his characterization that i hated after ep 5 is that he's been turned into, like... a dumb thug?? (also why does everyone behind the scenes describe him as a thug. that word for him bothers me a lot.) i'm specifically referring to criston in ep 9, which was supposed to be his crowning moment (pun not intended, but you know, he becomes the kingmaker!!) and ended up being a huge letdown. he randomly wanted beesbury to sit down and applied such force to the action that beesbury died over it, he drew his sword on the commander of the kingsguard because of an insult, and his scene with alicent where she mentions what he feels for her did somewhat give the impression that she was using him. (olivia cooke has since talked about that scene and i don't think that was intended. which is a common theme)

i can't really figure out a way to reconcile 1.09 criston with earlier criston, but the biggest problem here is that he hasn't been given enough screen time for the character to be fleshed out and have too many consistent character traits. he's shown the ability to be calculating (like when he provoked harwin into beating him up which resulted in the bastard allegations spreading), but he's also prone to emotional outbursts (though prior to 1.09 i would have just said killing joffrey in 1.05 was a one-time breakdown). he's definitely not supposed to be a blind dog that follows orders -- he immediately refuses when alicent asks him for the eye of lucerys -- but in 1.09 he lashed out at westerling for saying a bad word against her. (if there was more time devoted to his relationship with alicent, i think the green council scene would have played much better.) i'm not entirely sure what the writers are trying to achieve with him.

my impression of criston on the whole is he's a guy who deeply values his honour because it's what got him out of a period of his life when he was undisciplined and floundering (he mentions to rhaenyra that he had a wild youth in 1.03) and helped him, the son of a steward, rise to the position of kinsguard. but, that being said, his sense of honour is pretty unconventional. that's why we have him attacking daemon from behind in the tourney in 1.01, but only after daemon already used a dirty trick to beat gwayne hightower. that's why he is content following the orders of the green council in 1.09 -- because unlike harold westerling, who requires the king to be present -- criston is not doing any of it for aegon (the official monarch they’re attempting to install). he's doing it for alicent. alicent showed him mercy, alicent saved his life, alicent is the embodiment of the mother, alicent has ruled over the realm competently for some 6 years -- and he sees all of that and trusts her and really does think her leadership would be best! i generally just really like the characters in the asoiafverse who struggle with concepts like knighthood and honour, and i appreciate that from the get-go criston has been someone who makes the rules for himself.

so yeah he's so neat to me and i love him. also his little family unit with alicent and her kids is EVERYTHING. i'm desperately hoping and praying that we get more screen time and focus for him in the second season but i won't hold my breath </3

(also... super interesting that most of criston's scenes next season will probably be with aemond! i'm honestly extremely upset that the gang is splitting up already, but i really liked the chemistry between ewan and fabien in 1.09 so i am excited to see more of that!!)

[navree]

Big agree about the lack of shipping but what do you think about alicole. I would really like them I think but how they've written Criston in the show makes me unhappy

Ooh anon, let's discuss!

So, I've talked about alicole here (and then got some weirdo anons about it because for some reason the night episode 9 aired was the night of some deranged stuff in my inbox), but long story short is that I think it can be great. I don't necessarily know if I "ship" them in the way that I concretely want them to be together and kiss on screen, mostly because I think it would be out of character for Alicent, and also there's not really much time for it since Criston's soon gonna be off to war and then things, ah, escalate, but I find the dynamic interesting and I love what they have together. I like that Criston is clearly devoted to Alicent (because she deserves it) and would do anything for her and she clearly cares deeply about him in turn, and that beyond their own personal feelings towards each other and the attachment they have, Criston has also stepped up to be a presence for her children and to essentially be a surrogate father to them as well, which doubtless makes Alicnet care about him more, because she loves her kids.

Portrait of Ser Criston Cole and the royal children, circa 129 AC, colorized:

I think the issues with Criston's writing is that they haven't really developed him all that much, cuz they were so busy trying to develop everyone and set the stage for the Dance (which is really why they should have made this entire season be the Milly and Emily era, then have the entire next season essentially be the second half of this season, so we could really flesh stuff out more). There's stuff they've written for Criston that the audience desperately wants more depth on (like his rage attacks and what prompts them and what's the root of them, like his religious devotion and where that came from, Hell even his backstory of being both lowborn and Dornish when Dorne wasn't a part of the Kingdoms and was oftentimes hostile and misliked by most of Westeros). And because that depth isn't there, sometimes it feels weird, and it adds to a lack of depth we feel towards his relationships to other people, like Rhaenyra and Alicent.

It also doesn't help that Criston got this horrible fandom Flanderization/memetic mutation as an incel that makes it borderline impossible to have a conversation about him without people getting Weird. But the alicole girlies never have that problem and that scene where they're leaning super close to each other and Alicent talks about how he feels everything for her and he gets all intense? That ate, and is also very funny when you remember that Aemond is literally right there. Guys that's your son, quit it.