#I read a lot of it but I'm not a big shipper of it

[chaos-potat]

Random thought I've been thinking

[plusultraetc]

interested to know what u think abt erasercloud as a ship … im a emic otp kinda guy so i have it easy LOL

🤝I am definitely an erasermic otp kinda gal (I am tied to the mast of this ship like Odysseus except I actually want to be here), but I think erasercloud is really cute!! And Painful :')

tbh I did read this ask and literally have to sit there like 'what DO I think of erasercloud as a ship???' bc I only ever really think about them as friends? Obv their dynamic is so compelling, romantic or platonic. It's about the belief. It's about the remembering. It's about the love, persevering. It's about how Shirakumo was one of the first people who really, vocally believed in Aizawa, and now Aizawa is one of the only people who believes in him. (That he's still here. That there's still hope.) It's about how they only knew each other for a short time, but the impact they had on each other is so important. Life-changing.

(link bc this is getting long lol)

On a less-emo note, I also think that Shirakumo is just a super likable character, and in-universe, I can totally see him being the kind of person that like... everyone has a little bit of a crush on. Like we've all met one of Those People. Maybe I'm a little biased, bc in undergrad I was embarrassingly smitten with a very funny, very social person who, what do you know, would NOT let me be in my little reclusive introvert bubble. I can say from experience that being singled out by a person like that is very. uwu. you know how it is. ANYWAY even in a world where they're not together I could very easily see little bby Aizawa having a fleeting crush on Shirakumo for a reason like that. TL;DR cute ship if you smile through the pain!!

(I also know that a lot of Marvel fans ship Captain America and the Winter Soldier and isn't that,, kiiind of what's going on with Aizawa and Kurogiri?? So there's that!)

[sm-baby]

Did you know your Au got a mention in ColeyDoesThings new video??!

Here's the link btw at 2:11 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rb6t5p5znbY

HELP ME HELP ME HELP ME HELP HELP HELP- /lh

@whimsquirksandstuff YALL ARE TELLING ME THIS AS IF COLEY ISNT ONE OF THE COOLEST PEOPLE EVER TO EXIST??!?! MF IVE BEEN WATCHING HER STUFF FOR YEARSSS!!!

COLEY YOU ARE AMAZING AND AWESOME!! If she's reading this, I'm sure she gets this a lot, but Thank you SO much for providing such a safe space for people to be weird and silly! You made me feel so unashamed and happy to just-- enjoy?? things??

Accept this sacrifice, queen!! Thank you for all your years serving the internet! I'm so graced to be-- known by you, let alone ACKNOWLEDGED and MENTIONED???

Thats all!! I just know that its a very once-in-a-lifetime thing to be acknowledged by Coley so I wanted to get it all out!! i hope all the other au makers as well just-- all the other creators that you mentioned get to shout their praises as well!! COLEY YOU ARE AW E SO ME !!

Haha!! I am also such a big Showtime (Caine x Pomni) shipper!! We have a server, and are well aware that we are a rarepair! so seeing that little bit on 3:07 made us SO INCREDIBLY HAPPPY HAHA!!! 💞💓💖

[nekropsii]

Hello! First of all, love your work. Wonderful takes and analysis on the alpha trolls, and also i’m a big fan of sovstuck - both the text and the awesome cool art. I love that every character gets introduced with their own unique artstyle, each oozing with character :)

I wanted to ask, - and please believe that i’m asking in good faith, - about your proship dni. I’ve been seeing discourse about ‘pro/anti ship’ for ages now, but i cannot for the life of me understand what the hell either side stands for. First i hear it’s about abusive or problematic (pedo/incest) ships in general, then it’s about the difference of portrayal/endorsement of those things, then it’s something else entirely and i can never fucking understand what the hell the issue is and why it is so heated.

By no means i’m asking you to speak for the whole discourse or even for the entire ‘side’ of it - if there’s one thing i got, it’s that no one can agree on their definition of what ‘their side’ stands for. But i would like to know what meaning you put into the terms, and what kind of ‘proship’ you would like to not interact with you; i trust that you know what you believe in and are able to put it to words in a way that makes sense and doesn’t contradict itself or common sense, as i sometimes see :”)

I.. understand that since the topic is so divisive, you may get a ton of bullshit in your ask box and notes, should you choose to answer this, both from people who disagree and those who choose to misinterpret what you say. So feel free to ignore this ask if you don’t want to deal with that. Still, i do hope i can someday gain some clarity on this topic haha.

Best wishes!! thanks for what you do :)

Hello! Thank you so much, the compliments mean a lot! They really keep me going, lol!!

First of all, congratulations on formulating the most normal ask adjacent to this topic. Since it's so god damn touchy, people have a tendency to start throwing rocks no matter what "side" they're on, and no matter if they know what the hell they're talking about or not. Frankly, some of the ruckus surrounding this circus act is embarrassing. On both ends. Second of all, while this isn't something I'm an expert in, I do know more than I'd like, so I'd be happy to give my perspective, even if it's potentially a bit limited/flawed.

Thirdly, I'm putting this under a cut, for anyone who doesn't want to read all that.

Content Warning: Discussions of Shipping Discourse, Sexual Assault, Abuse, Grooming, Incest, and Pedophilia.

Let me start this by defining what the Relevant Terms mean:

Shipping: The act of pairing two or more Characters together. Though the term is derived from "Relationship", and therefore is at its core - technically, theoretically - a Neutral Term, it - conversationally, colloquially - carries extremely heavy Romantic Connotations, with a strong implication that said Romance is found to be appealing - typically in the sense of being either Cute, or Sexy. Defining this is not me trying to condescend you - One of the key questions in this discourse is what it means to "ship" something, and whether or not the term implies the shipper is condoning the material inherent to the ship.

ProShip: Essentially means "All For All Shipping". It's the personal, discourse-based identity label equivalent to the phrase "Ship And Let Ship". There's a common misconception floating around that the "Pro" in "ProShip" stands for "Problematic", rather than simply being the positive antonym to the prefix "Anti". While I find this to be a failure of basic deductive reasoning, I can also understand how the conclusion was reached - Proshippers are most commonly associated with "Problematic Content"/"Problematic Ships", and they do tend to take pride in being "Problematic" themselves. Either way, the word "Problematic" is highly associated with them and often reclaimed by them. They also call themselves "Anti-Antis" (horribly stupid label, by the way), and "ComShip(pers)", with the "Com" being short for "Complex". To my knowledge, ComShip is a sect specifically trying to get away from the baggage that the term "ProShip" holds, and away from the very real predator problem within the ProShip Community. But I'm getting ahead of myself.

AntiShip: Essentially means "Against Certain Forms of Shipping". It actually used to be a term for people who were against specific individual ships, rather than a blanket discourse label - for example, rather than someone identifying as just an "Antishipper", they would typically label themselves as "Anti-VrisMeen", or a "VrisMeen-Anti", or whatever their focus was. An important thing to note is that Antis trend Young, and they trend Traumatized. They are typically Teenagers, and their stances are largely informed by their discomfort watching Adults Sexualize Characters who share their age or younger, and discomfort watching people Sexualize some kind of Trauma they've been through - and considering their general ages, it's not unlikely that that Trauma is either Fresh or Ongoing. This is not always the case, but it's such a large amount of the AntiShip crowd, and it's acknowledged so little, that it's worth mentioning. It's a very important piece of context to me.

The general Belief Systems of both sides, as they currently stand, are as follows:

ProShip: ==> Never Harass Anyone Over Their Ships: This is the bones of their beliefs, and where everything started. Essentially, it's rude and unnecessary to send people Harassment over a Ship they enjoy, because not only could you be doing something better with your time, but also it can be pretty difficult to tell the "How/What/Why" of someone's interest in such material. ==> All Forms of Shipping Should Be Allowed, No Matter The Content: This is the meat of their beliefs, and also where the arguing starts. It's exactly what it says on the tin - Anything Goes, including Rape, Abuse, Incest, and Pedophilia. This is why the label is so touchy - many people are extremely uncomfortable with the idea of Fandom going back to its habit of uncritically normalizing + romanticizing Rape, Abuse, Incest, and Pedophilia. Part of this is due to the fact that this uncritical normalization has led to genuine, tangible harm on people in Fandom Spaces, particularly Minors. ==> Being Problematic Is Based: The skin of their beliefs. Many people wrap up Shipping Discourse in terms that make it sound like engaging in it is Political Praxis, somehow. While your stance on Shipping Discourse can certainly be telling of your Political Beliefs, in the way that your stance on literally anything can be telling of that, calling Shipping Discourse on its own some kind of Radical Political Stance is... Deeply silly, and also keeps leading to people saying "Being into Incest/Pedophilia is Queer Nature", like, unironically. I keep seeing this happen. This part of it tends to be very... Spite-driven. ==> Fiction Is Not Reality: Basically their catchphrase - nothing that happens in fiction is real, and therefore has no tangible effect on reality.

AntiShip: ==> Please Tag Your Content Appropriately And Keep It Out Of The Reach Of Minors: The bones of their beliefs. Self Explanatory, typically followed up with "and if you can't do that, don't post/make it at all". To further illustrate this, I'd like to spark any reader's memory of the times where you couldn't Google search "Fluttershy" without being lambasted with hardcore porn. No additions of "R34", or "NSFW", just "Fluttershy". There was no SFW Filters. You just had to fucking fight for your life. Being a child on the Internet is and was extremely rough. There wasn't any Official Tag Filtering on Tumblr until... I think 2017. It was dark. ==> Abuse/Rape/Incest/Pedophilia Should Not Be Considered "Shipping": The meat of their beliefs. Essentially, these are extremely heavy, delicate topics meant to be treated with respect and tact, or not handled at all. This is not possible in Shipping Content. At least, not as we currently understand it, and will likely remain understanding in that way for years to come. They argue that Fanfiction is not ever going to be on par with Vladimir Nabokov's Lolita. Which is true. They also argue that it's impossible for most Fanfictions to treat these sensitive subjects with any respect, which is... Dubious, but also fair, considering the Sturgeon's Law of it all. ==> Ewwwww...: The skin of their beliefs. Disgust. It's a whole lot of disgust. Again, worth reiterating that the bulk of AntiShippers are quite Young and/or Traumatized, and the content they are reacting to tends to be Extreme, so a gut response of disgust is... Honestly, healthy. No 15 Year Old should be stumbling upon art of a child getting frisky with their dad and going "hell yeah, brother!". Though I wish they'd handle their disgust with more tact, I find that it's just... A fair response, given their age, what their backstory tends to be, and what content they tend to be reacting to is. ==> Fiction Affects Reality: Not necessarily their catchphrase, but definitely their counterpoint to the catchphrase of ProShippers. They do not say Fiction is real, just that it does literally have a tangible effect on reality, and point to cases where this is observable. The impact Jaws had on real life sharks is a favorite, as is The Birth of a Nation, and The Turner Diaries. And, of course, the ways that the works put out by ProShippers has tangibly affected the lives of others, especially children.

It is worth noting, I am neither of these things. I do not identify as a ProShipper, nor do I identify as an AntiShipper. I identify as a Horror Writer. I have "DNI: ProShip" in my bio because their stances make me the most uncomfortable, and I have been victimized personally by members of their crowd and the result of their beliefs.

I was Groomed by an Adult ProShipper when I was 14 Years Old. She used her ideologies as a ProShipper to excuse herself and the (sexual) content she forced me to Roleplay with her, and used it to pressure me into writing more and more extreme content. I did not want to do it even at the time - it made me uncomfortable - but she made the idea of saying "No" to her... Quite scary, and like I was the one in the wrong for being uncomfortable with it. After all, Fiction Isn't Reality, right? I am not the only person I know with this experiences. I have met and spoken to countless - and I mean countless - individuals who have had similar experiences with that crowd. The sheer distrust kids and teens tend to have towards them is learned through that crowd's propensity towards grooming them. Because the celebration and normalization of that content breeds comfortability with "the real deal", and comfortability with harboring predators.

I'm sure some ProShippers have noble intentions, and don't realize what the controversy is about. I'm sure some of them are deeply out of the loop, and still think it only means "Being Anti-Harassment". But I do not care enough to give people the chance, just... For the sake of my own sanity. You understand, I'm sure. I do not think that this rift between worlds is ever going to get closed, or that these sides are going to experience amicability, because the question is nuanced and about morality itself, and one side is full of defensive, traumatized teenagers trying to keep themselves and their friends safe from what they are perceiving as legitimate threats to their safety, and the other side is full of people who just wanna jerk it to weird porn.

I'm not personally comfortable with, like, any self-identified ProShipper being near me, just due to my own experiences. Some might try to identify me as one against my will, due to the fact that I am Anti-Harassment and a Horror Writer unafraid to touch upon every single one of the aforementioned sensitive topics, but... I am simply not one, because I don't identify that way, I don't believe in their beliefs, and they creep me out, lol.

My beliefs are that people should be able to write about whatever they want, as long as they handle things with the appropriate amount of care, and as long as they keep things tagged appropriately. I think that harassing people for shipping Stridercest in fucking 2024 is lame because you could be doing literally anything else with your time, and I think shipping Stridercest in fucking 2024 is lame because you could be doing anything else with your time. Like, come on, man, it's not even interesting. They're not even doing anything interesting with it. Where are the themes? There are no themes. It's just brothers mackin' on each other whitely. Come on.

No topic should be off limits, but you should at least give it the care and respect it deserves, and you should make it interesting. Nothing is interesting on its own. Rape is not interesting on its own. Incest is not interesting on its own. Abuse is not interesting on its own. Pedophilia is not interesting on its own. Taboo subjects are not interesting on their own. They're mundane evils that happen literally every day to regular people. In writing, they need to be paired with themes, and, hopefully, with good writing. People who have been through these things deserve not only to have their trauma represented, but handled with care, and also for it to be interesting to read. They deserve to have options. They deserve to have good literature to chew on, to help them digest and cope with their own trauma. It's difficult to do that when you feel invisible to everything but the camera lens of a Fetish Pornographer, and I know many people who are suffering with the fact that their traumas seem to only ever be represented or referenced in shitty pornography.

Sure, some people cope with their own trauma by sexualizing it. I know that's the case for some ProShippers, and their reason for being within that group. But it's certainly not everyone's method of coping, and it shouldn't be the only option... Which is why I'm advocating for safe, non-fetishized exploration of extreme themes.

I think the reason why the discourse is so unclear is because "ProShip" and "AntiShip" aren't very tangible, definite belief systems, and also the talking points are evolving and maturing over time. A few years ago, the beliefs of "Antis" definitely broadly leaned more heavily towards total rejection of those themes being present in any fiction, but their arguments seem to have matured lately into "the problem is the nature of the depiction, not the presence of depiction itself".

That's all I can think of saying right now that wouldn't just be me walking in circles. And don't worry, I can definitely take the hit. I'm not sure what here could be very arguable other than semantics, or maybe a history lesson or two.

Thank you for the ask! Hope this helps!

[olderthannetfic]

what is the reason why reader insert fics are not published on ao3 though?

are they getting hate comments on there? or just tumblr provides more reach?

I sort of feel like also a good chunk of reader insert writers are antis because in not one but many fandoms I'm part of big reader-insert writers made posts about the awful incest shippers and pro shippers and one of them even advocated for reporting those writers accounts.

I guess antis are in every fandom but it was weird seeing that coming from so many reader-insert writers specifically. makes me think they like publishing on tumblr because they know on ao3 they can't report the yucky incest fics and they don't wanna share a platform with them.

--

Readerfic is popular with young people. Lots of young people are antis. I wouldn't read too much into this.

And it does get posted to AO3 in increasing amounts.

The only reason it wasn't there initially is that it's often the hettiest het to ever het, and AO3 was started by slashers, but now that AO3 has been big for years, the demographics of users have changed.

[chnqin]

I saw that leftover ships post going around again where everyone was tagging Jiang Cheng (hilarious) and it got me thinking about what the preferred Jiang Cheng/x ship is for people who don't really care who he ends up with.

So I have made a poll for people with no particularly strong ship opinions for Jiang Cheng. If you are a big Jiang Cheng x whoever shipper this is not the poll for you (although I could make one if you want).

[ominus-potato]

I'm sorry if I sound a bit ignorant/oblivious/rude but what caused the Mr. Puzzles X Mario ship? I see it everywhere and the art is adorable but I don't know what started it? Was it a specific scene? Some dialogue I missed? Or is it a crack ship?

(once again I'm sorry if any of this sounds rude whatsoever, I'm bad at wording things)

Not rude at all dude! Thanks for asking!

For me (and for most people in assuming) ig Marware started as a crackship since it’s really funny to imagine the big bad Mr Puzzles ended up swooning for the dumbass Italian that is Mario.

It’s also playing on the dynamic of smart logical character x the biggest idiot you can imagine. They are complete polar opposites in terms of design, personality, body type, height, brains, EVERYTHING!! They are complete opposites of one another. So ofc they gotta be shipper. Also, it’s great potential for funny moments and I just love making funny comics!

In terms of actual scenes, there is this scene from “no tv makes Mario go coo coo crazy” where he gives CPR to Mr Puzzles and clings to his face, calling him “Mi Amour” which translates to “My Love”. Mario even is willing to kill his own brother so that Mr Puzzles comes back to life. Ofc, Mario was being dramatic and didn’t actually KNOW it was a live person he was saying that to but it’s worth noting.

In terms of actual shipping material, I like to imagine that whilst Mario spend hours and hours watching TV (Mr Puzzles) alone, Puzzles eventually grew to appreciate his time with the Italian. He was the only person who truly loved all of his shows no matter how stupid they were. Mario is too dumb to form an opinion on a TV show so to him, all of Puzzlevision was worth 5 stars. In fanon, I think that would have meant a lot to Mr Puzzles and he would have then developed feelings for Mario that way.

Of course, he would get infuriated by Mario at times, especially when he was messing with his ratings. But despite constantly screwing up his 5 stars, Mr Puzzles kept putting Mario as a lead role in every single one of his productions. I dunno about you but Mr Puzzles to me seems smart enough to know that if a character is screwing up his ratings, he shouldn’t recast him. Yet he did. Every single time.

Let’s not forget that Mario absolutely loves TV. He doesn’t care about how evil the TV is. When he was chasing down Mr Puzzles, it was purely because he wanted to watch more TV. He wasn’t trying to save his friends in the beginning because he didn’t even realise they were in danger. And once everyone was safe, the very first thing Mario did was go and watch TV.

Since Mario can be such a nuisance, I love to imagine their interactions just being Mario bothering Mr Puzzles and him being unable to say no to him because deep down he knows he loves him. It’s playing into Mr Puzzles being such a pathetic villain that even the dumbest meme we of the crew can handle him easily.

He’s just an evil genius who loves his dumbass Mario 🥰

Anyway yeah! That’s more or less everything. It’s mostly a crackship but to me, I genuinely love it and it may possibly be my favourite SMG4 ship. Thank you for reading!! Take these Marware screenshots on your way out.

[thecoolerliauditore]

Sorry, not-so-amicable-exes anon here again just cause I saw your big toxic fh breakdown post again cause a friend wanted to read it and we were tlking about it- unimportant, sorry, we just had a thought. Because I've seen some anti-toxic shippers act like this interpretation is out of spite or some intentional thing shippers of other jimmy ships made up (specifically ranchers usually), but the timeline and accusation is all wrong. Like I don't remember ever seeing anyone even talk about this interpretation until post-liml? And it was very hesitantly and apologetically. There was a fic or two before this but most people even the people who enjoyed it expressed discomfort or concern at its existence and that's how most people react to them even to this day.

But I remember when I saw that first post I was like, "Oh thank god, someone else also thought that!" It felt like before that there was scenes in their POV that only happened when I watched 3l because no one talked about them, or wrote them very differently to what happened. And I saw some other people saying the same thing. I think the post even got deleted a few days later, too. It seemed to me like a lot of people had quietly independantly come up with the interpretation as far back as 3l itself, but stayed quiet until recently to avoid upsetting anyone or we all thought we were the only ones who saw it that way. I know I tend to hesitate to write characters negatively because it feels a bit wrong to do that when the ccs are friends, even if I think it would be interesting. I wonder how many people feel that way also?

But I guess what I mean to say is it seems to me that a lot of people independantly have been thinking it since 3l or ll and the only reason it started popping up in dl is because it was the next big Jimmy ship from the big shipping season, and people werent really willing to even talk about it for a whole other season because they were scared of being seen as negative.

But!! I just really think it's neat, I really like this narrative for Scott and Jimmy. It's rare to be able to get stories where people have problems and break up and move on to new relationships and grow from them. It makes sense because they're the first season couple and they've grown further and further apart as seasons go on.

Even people I see who don't like fh don't seem to WANT to talk about it, they only bring it up when asked, and try to be respectful. Maybe I've not seen something happening somewhere else? I just wish I didn't have to spend most of my energy when writing quadruple checking that I'm not making Scott a bad guy and emphasising Jimmy's faults just so people reading know for certain I'm writing it this way because I'm legitimately interested in exploring this interpretation of them, and I'm not one of "those" writers. But I'm starting to wonder how many of "those" writers there actually are. (At the risk of comparing petty fandom drama to a serious topic, but it feels a lot like I'm back on 2016 tumblr assuring people I'm not one of "those" enbies or "those" aces, trying not to get pushed out.)

I'm guessing anyone who doesn't care for toxic fh probably already has you blocked, but if there is anyone like that who does see this: Hi! I also love flower husbands a lot! They just aren't my fluffy comfort ship, I like headcanoning them as divorced and imperfect because I think it makes them more interesting to write. I love being able to write characters who don't find the love of their life immediately but each relationship still shapes them into a new person. Sometimes I like to imagine their relationship as more mild and silly, and sometimes more dramatic and intense, I'm not a one-headcanon person! But their divorce is what really inspired me about them so I like writing about it. I don't want to stop anyone from enjoying them how they enjoy them and have no interest in making people who would be upset by my content to read it, so I try to tag it correctly! I'd like to be able to write my stories without walking on eggshells wondering if someone thinks I only wrote something I worked really hard on and cared a lot about just to spite them or because I'm secretly homophobic while writing about men kissing, just because my interpretation is different. It makes me scared to put Scott in my fics at all and contributed to my writers block for fics with them in it. I think Scott gets treated unfairly by certain people too, but that's not what I'm trying to do, I wouldn't write about him if I did!

(Also sorry if my paragraphs are strange, I'm not used to writing on mobile or pouring my thoughts out.)

Hi hello welcome back!! Please don't apologize I love long asks, especially long asks about scott smahor. The fact that you pulled up that toxic fh post and read it with a friend is so funny to me. Looking back, I wish I'd planned it out better and wrote it more eloquently, but I'm glad it brings people some sense of joy/entertainment/understanding. I hope you and your friend enjoyed it, even in an ironic sense.

It's endlessly entertaining (and fascinating) to me personally how every toxic fh believer seems to undergo the same-ish pipeline of watching the fh pov and being horrified --> looking at fanon fh and disengaging out of fear --> finding other toxic fh posters in the wild and suddenly realising you're not insane after all. I know I personally went into scott's pov expecting wholesomeness and ended up wide-eyed at what I saw before proceeding to slink FH into the back of my mind for awhile.

People tend to believe others operate like they do and I think that's where a lot of the discourse originates. Most of the louder voices I've seen that are very against the toxic interpretation are from people who primarily engage in bending the characters to fit specific concepts i.e. the "toxic jimmy" brainstorm that happened awhile back on here where interpretation is less a study and more confirmation bias-ing your way into making an idea work. Which I must reiterate is completely awesome because we're making fanfics here not nukes. But this leads people to assume that everyone who writes about toxic fh is going in with the mindset of "how do i interpret these moments so that scott is an abuser" and not "wow that thing i just watched sure kind of felt like domestic abuse"

Which like. YEAH, if there was a theoretical group of people who went out of their way to interpret everything scott did ever as evil and irredeemable, I too would assume that they had it out for the guy. But that's not what's happening, usually, afaik (at least on here, twitter's situation is a bit different due to the culture and would be its own beast for me to dissect and I honestly don't spend enough time on there to really feel confident making any statement).

For the record, I think a lot of people are on the same boat regarding FH being toxic and just simply don't care enough to voice/explore it, don't want to deal with the fandom nonsense that comes with it or would simply rather shift focus onto other pairs with similar themes. i.e. there is something going on with the toxic fh believer/ethubs shipper overlap I just know there is if anyone would like to do science with me it'd be awesome.

I know that I definitely focused my sights more on Scott and Pearl's relationship following my "wow that was sure something" watchthrough of scott's series, which is ironic considering I now base alot of my thoughts about their dynamic on scott's previous relationship with jimmy.

I think there's like. Something about the DL Pearl fans and the ranchers fans specifically who tended to communicate in code re: Scott's toxicity because for a long time all of us were afraid of saying it outright. So you get a lot of posts where Scott is like. A vaguely unpleasant force in the narrative while not really being a main focus himself, which I think may have contributed to the "ranchers fans only view scott as the villainous ex to push their ship harder" argument that I've seen a lot.

Once I realised from that one Shepscapades comic that there were others who saw the same plot I did, I would go out fishing for signs of agreement/acknowledgement. Hybbat if you're reading this, take this as my apology for sending you anon asks back in the day essentially trying to bait you into posting more FH slander, there was something deeply wrong with me (there still is, I'm just more upfront about it now I think).

There's also just this very like.. us vs them mentality very apparent in the way people talk about The Discourse that kinda sucks. Weirdly enough it's kind of shifted from toxic fh vs healthy fh to fh vs ranchers (or any other jimmy ship for that matter) nowadays. I can't talk on 2016 tumblr but regarding your last point (which I know isn't directed towards me but I think it's worth saying) -- would it matter if you Were one of THOSE fh writers? (or one of THOSE aces or THOSE enbies for that matter). You're not but like. Would it?

(side note rhetorical question do not answer i dont want to know but wtf did the aces/enbies even do lmao)

Not to get too away from the discourse cus I do my fair share of glazing on this blog already, but yes yes yes big agree on fh's storyline being amazing!! I love that we essentially watch them both have to live on after their mutually life-changing marriage.

Scott especially I love because in a lot of stories that feature an abuser they're painted as entirely evil and oftentimes disappear from the story once the relationship is over, but Scott doesn't and will never go anywhere. He's forced to grapple with his previous actions and the destructive way he thinks about himself and relationships has and continues to damage both himself and the people he loves. Just like how irl even when we wish abusers would just "go away" they will still continue being living people as they've always been, not a concept that will simply perish once you overcome the trauma. I love abusive characters who are fully written as human and think they're important. Is all.

[fluffypotatey]

To be honest I am a huge Nalu shipper. But the thing is I want to know the difference between the way Natsu cares about his guildmates and Lucy. Like what is the obvious difference since that boy sees every as Nakama so how can we say that the wag he cares about Lucy is different?

Like even when Erza passed away? (All the way back in first season there was a segment where the guild was gathered at her grave and all) Natsu was still very reactive. Plus he was also said to be depressed even when Lisanna passed.

What's the difference between all of them and Lucy?

the fact that he stayed. the fact that before he met Lucy, Natsu wasn't one to stay in a group or even want to work with anyone besides Happy at the start of the story. hell, he was ready to just file Lucy down as "New Guildmate" once they reached Fairy Tail

but then, Lucy doesn't leave. she follows him on his mission to save Macao despite her not needing to or even really understanding everything about it. she stays and then fights with him and saves him. it's no secret that Natsu is strong and can take care of himself really well. he's been going on solo missions for years now, and no one has really stopped him, but that means he's been in a lot of sticky situations where he and Happy are on their own and have no backup. and yet, without asking, Lucy offers it

and i think this is the moment when Natsu considers that maybe it's okay to have someone there to have his back (sans Happy)

"but Natsu only needed Lucy for the next quest because of the requirements," well, Natsu also wouldn't have taken or even considered that quest if it weren't for Lucy, yeah? he was not a team player (in the picking job's sense) or really wanted other people to help him on his quests sans Happy. and then he goes and picks a job that caters to their team whilst ensuring that Lucy can't say no

or maybe i'm reading too much into it 🤷🏻‍♀️

or maybe Natsu's got horrible abandonment issues that he will latch onto people so fast (Igneel & Lisanna) but also cause him to distance himself so far when left behind (his 1st time at the guild, Lisanna's death). Erza and Gray are Natsu's closet friends after Lisanna and yet they cannot reach him when he closes himself off. and then we have Lucy, who stuck by and had his back, so who is to say Natsu didn't make some contingencies to ensure whether or not she'd join him?

but maybe it's the rose, colored ship glasses i have on

because yeah, Natsu cares for all of his guildmates. the power of friendship is his biggest motivator. when we meet Natsu, our first introductions of him is defending his guild's reputation from Bora (who was using it as a guise for human trafficking) and saving Macao. and our 1st big arc (Galuna Island), where Natsu adamantly refuses to allow Gray to use Ice Shell and sacrifice himself despite how antagonistic they've been to each other. we get Natsu 100% at Erza's defense throughout the Tower of Heaven and he is even ready to defend Wendy though they only met hours ago

Natsu is a character with a bleeding heart and cannot help but wear it on his sleeve, but we don't really see him allow others to fight his battles or have his back until Lucy comes in. to be honest, i don't even think he had his heart on his sleeve until Lucy. he still has a bleeding heart (i don't think anything could stop that), but he was not ready to be open in receiving company because he was so used to it being ripped away from him

that being said: of all the characters he interacts with, he finds Lucy to be someone compatible enough for him to start going on team missions and inviting her on them (for example, his 1st S-class mission, which he stole, he went to her house to show it to her. the fact that part of the reward was a celestial key might be a coincidence, but i wouldn't doubt it as Natsu and Happy's trump card in case she refused)

but yeah, the difference is that he stayed and didn't push her away at the beginning, but instead continued to invite her along with him to the point that doing a mission without Lucy wasn't his regular anymore. compared to the rest of the guild, of whom he spent most of his childhood with, even if he spoke to no one, they would still be around and talk to him anyway. he might not invite them on job and only challenge them to fights, but the guild is his home and a constant in his life, a constant he needs (bc heavy abandonment issues).

"okay, but he still pushed her away after he watched Igneel die right in front of him. and he left the guild for a whole year, too. so what's the difference there?" you may ask.

so 1) Natsu never thought the guild would disband. he returns to Fiore after a year and is the last to know that they disbanded. he assumed, like all the other times before and while he and others were sealed for 7 years, that Fairy Tail would still be there when he returned. he assumed that his disappearance would not impact so hard because the guild would still be around and Lucy would have the others with her

which, did not happen :)

and like, so many guild members go off on jobs, quests, or even just leave for an indiscriminate amount of time (which i, personally, believe was his rationality for leaving), so him being gone for a year was nothing! right? no harm, eh? his plan was never to be gone forever :))))

2) he just watched his father die and lose any chance of having some semblance of a long term reunion with Igneel. he literally lost one of his main driving motivations for getting stronger and taking jobs. before Fairy Tail, before anyone, it was Igneel. and to learn that a) Igneel was always with him to begin with and b) he only got to see him for less than a day after 14 years of nothing......i would feel lost too ngl

man's needed space from everybody. and he also needed comfort, but Natsu has been shown not to really be the character who asks to receive comfort (and when he does receive it, it's usually when he's already emotionally compromised). he is in the habit of shutting people out after being abandoned or losing someone close to him, with his next rationale being to "get stronger" in order to prevent what happened in the past to ever happen in the future.

anyway

what makes this different? well for one, he sent the letter only to Lucy (or it's implied since no one else is shown getting one) because of how the two spend most of their time together. even the line that goes with the panel makes it sound like Natsu is unsure on how the note will be received (maybe even hesitant? but that could be my own hopes)

and one of the 1st people he reunites with after a year is Lucy and we get such a similar parallel to the first chapter of Fairy Tail between the two as if the narrative itself is slotting them together to say "ah yes, now everything is back to normal and new journeys can begin"

but yeah, this is just a long way of saying, that Natsu does love his friends and guildmates but even when he is close to them, he kept to himself (and Happy) and sort of stayed in their orbit but always with some emotional distance because of his fear of abandonment. and then you have Lucy where he will stay for and allow her to orbit around him and he will invite to new adventures no questions asked

that's the difference

[distort-opia]

It's strange how differently people from different culture react to famous characters. Even outside of batjokes shippers, I have seen a lot of DC fans of my country just straight up telling that joker loves batman and batman's obsessed with joker. Or just thinking that's he's gay, cuz like, you have a hot Blondie but you only thinking of batman? Well buddy I have something to tell ya. But it doesn't have the same reaction from people from USA, at least the one that aren't from batjokes fandom? Like, they seemed to get offended when someone point out joker obsession with batman and how it would be read this thing they two had....

How do you think people from your country read theses two? Because it was a kind of shock to me see a lot o straight man fans of DC just accepting that, welp, Joker definitely not straight and batman is... 🤨 suspicious for not killing him already. I guess its because the film with heath ledger is very famous here, and the line where he said that batman complete him stuck.

This is a really interesting question, trying to look at it from a cultural standpoint... I definitely heard of or encountered people entirely lacking knowledge of comics, readily agreeing that there's something more to Batman and Joker's relationship. As you say, just with tangential contact with Nolan's The Dark Knight or maybe the Arkham games.

However, I think that no matter where we're from, there's a distinction of three groups, with their own relevant factors, which explain their attitudes (at least to me). There's people who aren't into Batman or superheroes, but who obviously heard of them or maybe saw one movie or two. Then there's casual fans: people who like Batman and maybe watched the movies, maybe liked The Batman Animated Series, maybe played the games-- but you won't find them on Reddit or Tumblr or Tiktok as super active in fandom, just because it's not their main thing. And then there's hardcore fans, people who write and read fanfic, people who post on different platforms about Batman characters, the ones who consistently engage in fandom. But I'm putting the rest under the cut since I got long (with unnecessary psychological analysis, lol).

This is of course simply my personal opinion, based on what I've observed over time. A couple of factors might influence how these groups view Batjokes, though the first two I'm mentioning are a bit more likely to be found within non-fans and casual fans. A non-fan homophobic/conservative individual is still likely to reject actual canon of Joker professing romantic love to Batman or of Batman having to deny more than once he's in love with the guy-- although I guess you could hit them with straight Batjokes, hah (Thomas and Martha Wayne of Flashpoint). Leaving this type of person aside though (which you're more likely to find in some countries compared to others), I think non-fans usually easily agree to a romantic side of Batjokes, or at the very least to the existence of obsession. Just based on the tangential knowledge they have, it's obvious these two characters come as a pair and are defined by the other, so it doesn't take much to convince them. But within casual fans and hardcore fans... and here I'd add someone who's male, homophobic or conservative... well, we start to encounter one big thing about Batman that this kind of individual cannot get over-- projection.

For many men, Batman represents the ubermasculine ideal. He's handsome, at the peak of physical fitness, rich, has the coolest car and gadgets, has got women begging to sleep with him. He's cold and controlling and bad at social skills but still somehow beloved by all. Bruce Wayne has got terminal Main Character Syndrome, and it's undeniable a lot of fans consider him the epitome of the Alpha Male. So if you're gonna bring up that he's gay for the Joker... no matter how much proof you throw at them, they'll employ any and all mental gymnastics to shut you down or prove you wrong. That's not even getting into the guys who project on Joker, and who see Joker as this incredibly cool "agent of chaos" and strive to emulate that; trying to get them to admit Joker has been written as queer for decades (with multiple writers admitting to it) is another exercise in futility. They'll tell you Joker only said he loves Batman to scare him! He flirts with men to throw them off! It's all a tactic... because of course, being gay can only be scary to someone as masculine as Batman. It's the decades-old problem of queer-coded villains which I won't get into. But my point here is that fans who project onto either Batman or Joker specifically for how "Alpha" they are, are not likely to be open to Batjokes interpretations, no matter their nationality. But of course, just as with non-fans, there are plenty of casual or hardcore fans who are perfectly fine with shipping or potential homoerotic connotations. Hell, many times you might get them to go down Batjokes rabbit holes by letting them know about comic or game adaptations. They'll easily recognize the classical enemies-to-lovers trope this ship embodies.

But then again, both within casual and hardcore fans (though it's much more often the case of the latter) you'll have people who have no issue with shipping, who follow comics, who read fics etc. But to whom Batjokes is anathema, because they're too invested in a different way: not in the characters, but rather in showing how Good and Moral they are to other fans, and how they ship only the Good ships. It's the hordes of antis you see on Twitter and sometimes here on Tumblr too: the purity police kind of fan. "How can you ship Bruce with the monster who killed his son?" or "Joker paralyzed Barbara, how can you--" but it's entirely hypocritical and mostly rooted in the current trend of hating Joker. There's plenty of DC villains who have done similar things to Joker, or harmed the Family in similar ways to Joker, but he's the scapegoat right now for multiple reasons I talked about before (Joker fatigue and DC writing him like shit, the pushback from seeing all the alpha male dudebro fans latch onto him and hating that, etc.).

I got way too long, lol. But basically I think these generalized types of fan behavior can appear no matter the nationality, though there's undoubtedly a higher frequency of one or the other in different countries. Frankly, Romania is intensely religious and conservative, so in my country... even among my younger peers it's likely I'd encounter homophobic stances. And purity policing and that way of thinking is more likely to happen among fans from the US, like you pointed out.

[forevermore05]

1. I can't speak for other cultures that were represented in this show (I'm so sorry if your representation was ruined too), but since I'm a South Asian and specifically an Indian and Hindu. I think I have some credibility. Ok, so this may depend on the interpretations of Hinduism that you've grown up with if you're a Hindu reading this. Well, growing up, I was always taught that Chakras were so important. I learned that the GODS could not accomplish something unless they access all their Chakras (again, this is the interpretation I grew up with it might not be the same for you). So the fact that watching Aang just be able to live life without accessing all of his charkas properly was a big slap to the face. Let me just say this right now. If you were representing a culture, especially the culture that you base the entire show on you either do it correctly or you don't do it at all. Don't make it half-baked because that's just disrespecting the people who follow that religion. And you're emphasizing how insignificant their religious values are (mind you Hinduism is one of the oldest religions in the world). What little representation we had was also ruined.

2. I also want to talk about another point since I'm here. I think I've made it very clear that I'm a woman of color. Even though me and Katara Are not the same ethnicity. She was my representation through skin color. And it's so interesting. How even though I knew that she was not my ethnicity, I still grasped onto her as a representation. Now this is not a PSA for studios to say "Hey, let's have a person that is brown, and everyone will be okay with it because they will have a person of the same skin to relate to." No this is me criticizing the lack of diversity in the show. The fact that you can base an entire show on a culture but not be able to handle a main character from that culture. And also I think the reason why I like Zuko and Katara ( I've made this point before) But the amount of respect that they have. As a woman of color, I have not exactly received respect from other men whether that be because of my gender or my skin color. So seeing a woman of color be respected regardless it's just so refreshing to me.

3. Also I want people to be mindful that a lot of people who ship this ship. Are women of color and/or part of the LGBTQIA2S+ community. However, I'm going to talk specifically about women of color since I'm straight. A lot of us have come from countries that have been colonized and still face the repercussions of colonization to this day, so what I'm trying to say is. When woc ship this duo they know what they're doing and they're not doing anything wrong. It's disrespectful to insult them for being racist and misogynistic when in reality a lot of these women face misogyny and racism in their own lives. They understand why they ship this ship. They understand it very well because they able to see and understand what is truly going on.

4. If you have a problem with this post and want to potentially hunt me down. I'm only saying this because I've seen other women of color be harassed for liking Zutara. I need you to remember that I'm a teenager. I'm a kid. I don't think you want to beef with a kid. And no, it does not matter that I'm 18. You shouldn't be harassing anyone over a ship. In fact, accusing shippers of being racist but then being racist to that poc/woc shipper is insane. It kind of shows that those people are not on a moral high horse.

5. I'm a kid......don't even think about it.

[cryptar]

yknow i say im a huge multishipper but i wouldnt actually consider myself much of a shipper at all. just open to the idea of trying everything once. the term has typically romantic connotations and follows the assumption that i think, and want, these characters to be good for eachother.

I'm, personally, less interested in the prexisting chemistry than i am in the puzzle of figuring out what differing circumstances could potentially cause two characters who have seemingly nothing in common to become eachothers everything.

This could explain my favorism towards rarepairs and more convoluted dynamics, and my aversion to popular, fluffy pairings that have already been explored a thousand times over, there's no work for me to do there.

Not to mention that when a ship becomes too popular it starts cannibalising itself, and lots of good, interesting characterisations are lost in the sea of people bending characters into pre-orchestrated, saccharine dynamics. alot of which are usually downright fetishy in nature, particularly in mlm pairings.

I mean i would say being able to get ooc and self indulgent is downright mandatory for making a good fic, but there's only so many times i have to read a fic about a big, overprotective, manly-man top who does all the work and the shy, small, swoony, softhearted femme-wifey-bottom before it starts to just be lazy.

I actively have to go out of my way to search 'switch' tags if i want true-to-the-character, mutual emotional reciprocation. which i really, really shouldn't have to do as an ace person who actively skips through nsfw.

And it's not that popular wlw pairings aren't guilty of these problems aswell, but those tend to lean more into the 'soft lesbians who can do no wrong' stereotype, which always completely (butch)ers all nuisance that makes the ship worth shipping in the first place.

As well as that's if they're even the focus of the story at all and aren't just shoved to the side by the main mlm couple. mlw pairings can be culpable of both these things, with the added risk that you find out the author made a twitter post with the characters in front of the 'super straight' flag.

Though i also wonder if me being aspec plays any part as again; im not as interested in the romantic aspects as i am in the possible hurdles they may face throughout the potential relationship.

Anyone else feel like this?

[mal3vol3nt]

https://www.tumblr.com/longing-for-rain/755847912227028992/here-we-observe-the-aang-boymom-in-its-natural?source=share

Hi! I'm curious on your thoughts of this meta.

hi anon! so sorry for keeping you waiting with this response, i know it’s been months. unfortunately this probably isn’t gonna be the response you wanted to hear—me breaking down this zk brainrot rant and subverting their claims with canon content. please allow me to explain though (this is gonna be long sorry):

the reasons i’ve been slow to answer this ask and others that have sent me zk rants are:

since joining atla twitter (@arrsapphics if you’re cool) i’ve been exposed to a lot more zk coke-fueled rants and just do not have the energy to torture myself by willingly reading their shit

a lot of these zutara stans on tumblr are a lot more deranged and genuinely horrible people now that i’ve been exposed to the twitter zks. of course, zks are stupid and ship-obsessed on every platform and some of them (one in particular comes to mind—if you’re on twitter then you know) are genuinely just as bad, but i feel the ones on here have a special type of hatred considering they can tag their posts to ensure their hate stays within the echo chamber

CONTENT WARNING: RAP3

the second reason is the biggest part of why i will no longer entertain posts from longing-for-rain. i have recently found out via twitter that they write rape fanfiction of katara. being a chronically online shipper is one thing but to write fanfic of katara being raped so that zuko can save her is truly where i have to disengage. they have also posted rants of them analyzing katara’s body in the show, measuring the size of her breasts and hips to support the delusions in their head about this 14 year old girl. i truly cannot engage with this person’s rants as if they’re just regular shipping war bullshit. this person is a sick individual who not only projects onto a 14 year old brown indigenous character but also sexualizes and adultifies her

for these reasons, i refuse to read a rant posted by her and other big zk blogs on this app. people who take their obvious fetishes and racism and project them onto underaged asian and indigenous characters have gained too much attention from me on this blog. i can’t continue reading rants from these people and analyzing them because i know these people are not treating this show and its characters under an appropriate lens and arguing with their points will do absolutely nothing but enrage me, other people in the ka fandom, and fuel their delusions with our anger as “proof” their arguments hold any weight. on twitter, i’ll continue interacting with what comes up on my tl from my atla moots and if that includes shitting on a deranged zk then fine. but on tumblr i refuse to engage, especially since this app has a tagging system that i use religiously

and i would like to encourage anyone who reads this to also refuse to take this person’s rants seriously and look at them as nothing more than cope-hatred by a sick individual with sick fantasies and thoughts about these minor characters. of course, if you choose to still engage then i won’t stop you and will probably like and reblog your posts 😭

i will just no longer willingly click on links to their rants and subject myself to their bullshit. however, if you’d like for me to argue against zk claims then you are more than welcome to send me a summary of what they’ve said and i’ll do my best to organize a response! i absolutely do not want to discourage anyone from sending me asks because i truly do enjoy answering yalls questions and i love knowing that people like hearing what i have to say on these things lol. please, send me asks about anything and everything! just please understand that i won’t be clicking any links to their posts and blogs or be entertaining anything that comes from the three main delusional zk blogs 🙏

i hope this has made sense and again, i’m sorry anon for taking so long to answer this ask and for not giving the expected response 🫶

[ask-irisstar]

Can u do big brother law moments with corazon x reader child.(There daughter) Plz🥹🙏

Showing the polar tang her

Reading his fav comics to her

Literally buy everything she pointed too

(u can do any sernario u can think of)

Thank u in advance 💛

Free babysitting service

A/N: CUTEST REQUEST EVER! And the first one since forever too so I'm really grateful for this! So happy you asked for this cuz baby fever is hitting me and I was working on some hc when this came in. So, I hope you like this anon!

Notes: SFW, Fluff, Corazon x Fem reader, mostly Law and his sis interection

When you and Corazon got married, Law is not too happy

And when he found out you're married with Corazon's biological daughter Law immediately felt that Corazon's going forget about him

Secretly really looking forward into meeting his baby sis

Offers to help with the baby delivery and gives you tips during the pregnancy

Corazon teases him about being a good big brother despite the baby not being born yet

Time skip when the baby is born

He is the FIRST one to hold her

You guys name her Nova

Trembly hands when he sees the little buddle in his hands he gets to call his sister

When you and Corazon go out on dates, he's forced to babysit Nova

Law definitely complains about it but is secretly happy he gets to spend time with his new sister

Reads some of his favorite comics to her to make her sleep

Makes sounds effects to make Nova laugh

Bepo says it won't work and insists he read proper bedtime stories

Nova surprisingly falls asleep listening to Law read comic

He falls asleep shortly after, a protective hand over Nova who's sleeping on his stomach

You and Corazon found the sight adorable

As Nova grows up, Law will DEFINITELY teach her about medicine, hoping she'll have some medical knowledge when she goes on her own adventure one day

Shows her the Polar Tang

Nova and Law likes playing hide and seek in there

Not the Heart pirates taking pictures of their captain

You're surprised to find Nova and Law talking animatedly about Germa 66 and telling each other who's their favorite

Takes Nova shopping occasionally

Will buys her anything she wants

Low-key disappointed and sad when she decides to start an adventure of her own

Overall the best big brother in the world

Nova is secretly a LawLu shipper

The most protective brother

Will not let anyone touch Nova

When Nova gets a boyfriend, Law will lock him in a interrogation room and starts bombarding the poor man with questions

Holds a gun to anyone's neck if they make fun of Nova

Honestly doesn't trust the Strawhats to be near Nova

______________________________________________________________

That's a wrap guys! Hope yall enjoyed this! Did quite a lot of research for the name so hope you guys like the name I chose! I'll try to sketch a picture of Nova when I have free time. Until then, please send request!!!

[themysteriousauthor18]

Alastor comes out as Ace to Lucifer

(HEY ALL MY ACE'S OUT THERE! If you are or are not a radioapple shipper thats fine. But...I'm praticing trying to write Alastor as ace, or I think grayace? (please feel free to correct me.) Anyway I'd like the opinion of people on that spectrum to tell me how good or bad I did. And were I could improve if needed. Thank you! And thanks for reading!

The current scene is set somewhere in the 1990s. Alastor and Lucifer have been dating (around) a month at this point (can be changed later). Lucifer and Charlie are having a sleepover at Alastor’s house (they do this often now) and Lucifer is laying in bed with Alastor while Charlie is bunking it with Alastor’s mom in her room.(?) The concept of gay is a new concept to people in this era and while its legal its frowned upon. So being asexual is an undiscovered thing and while Alastor is ace he doesn't understand it. Or understand its okay and there isn't something wrong with him.

Lucifer liked Alastor’s house. 

He liked how warm, cozy and inviting it felt opposed to the gigantic mansion he owned. He liked how small Alastor’s bed was compared to his own. Because his bed felt empty. Hallow. Alastors was small and cozy and because it was small it made them have to lay closer to each other. Which…neither ever seemed to mind. 

He liked it here. 

He liked taking Charlie out along the banks with Alastor to go exploring. He liked how warm the neighborhood was. How kind they were to Charlie. How the fellow kids in the neighborhood played with her. It was such a stark contrast to the wandering judging eyes of his own neighborhood.

As Lucifer lay there though, Alastor in his arms. He felt something was off. Alastor felt…tight. His body was tense. “Alastor?” He asked, gently. His voice is quiet. “Are you awake?” It had to be almost midnight if not early morning by now. But since the birds were quiet, he assumed night.

“Mm.”Lucifer lays there for a moment. He’s unsure if Alastor is really awake or if he’s sleep talking. He’s about to try going to sleep himself when he feels Alastor move in his arms. When he opens his eyes Alastor is moving away and sitting up. Lucifer lays there for a moment, watching Alastor with growing worry as he sits facing away from him. He’s hunched forward and his head is hanging low. 

After a moment, Lucifer sits up too. 

“Whats wrong?” He asks carefully. 

Alastor's response is immediate. “I need to talk to you.”

“Okay?” He shifts forward but Alastor turns away. So…he keeps his distance. 

They sit there in silence for a few minutes. Lucifer tries to fight the anxiety growing in his chest like a beast. And the desire to start pacing around the room. He settles for tugging at the sheets repeatedly. 

“I understand we have been together for a month now. And this may seem sudden. But I believe there’s something we need to talk about.” 

“ …I’m listening.”

Alastor looks nervous, he’s staring at the wall without a hint of a smile on his face. Lucifer noticed Alastor smiled a lot as a person. A long sigh comes from him. And at least a few minutes pass before Alastor even tries to speak again. It's like he’s contemplating dropping the subject altogether. Lucifer’s grateful he doesn’t. Because he’s not sure he wouldn’t be able to not worry about it if he knew something was on Alastor’s mind. And that it was bothering him.

“I…” He starts, messing with the bottom of his hair. “I’m not a very big fan of sex, or…sexual activities in general.” 

The statement catches Lucifer off guard. Because…well, like Alastor said they’d only been together for a month. And sure he’d known plenty of people and friends who had done way more than he’s done with Alastor in a month. But, he enjoyed that they were taking things slow. After literally marrying someone at 18 and having a child at 19 (even though he loved Charlie very much)  just to be divorced not long after, taking things slow was what he desperately needed. Having said that, neither of them had even glanced at the topic of sex. So to hear Alastor bring it up felt…strange.

"Where's this coming from?” he decides to say. Unsure about what he should say on the statement itself yet. He needs to know where Alastor’s mind is at first.

Alastor is fidgeting. Being around him for this long, he’s picked up on the notion that Alastor does that when he’s nervous. Not a man to typically wear his heart on his sleeve. But it's not entirely difficult to figure out what he’s thinking or feeling if you knew what signs to look for. 

Lucifer slides up, and places a gentle hand on Alastor's forearm. Alastor doesn’t look at him. He’s looking down, his long hair covering his face and making it impossible to see his expression. But he doesn’t move away, or move the hand. “Hey, you can talk to me Al. I’m not judging, I’m just trying to understand what's going on.”

It makes him worry when Alastor doesn’t seem to relax. Even when he’s said that. But Lucifer waits there, patiently. The two of them tangled in the sheets, sitting together. Eventually Alastor does speak again and it's slow and cautious. Maybe even a little…scared?

“I’ve never…been a fan of sex. Or sexual things. It's just….it's not something I could ever really get into. That's not to say I don’t like it? I just like it in a different way?” He leans his face into his hand. “I’ve only had two relationships in my life. And maybe that’s pathetic for someone who is 25 but that doesn’t matter. I suppose 3 if you count us but I’m not counting us in this particular situation.” Lucifer frowns, unsure of what that’s supposed to mean. Should he be worried? He keeps those thoughts to himself for now, letting Alastor go on. 

“The details of those relationships aren’t important. What is important is that they both were very physically intimate people. They both liked to indulge in sex quite a lot. And I tried to satisfy them both when I was with each of them. But I felt…uncomfortable, with how much it happened.” Alastor shifts, pulling his legs to his chest and resting his chin on his knees. Lucifer can see his eyes now but not the rest of his face. His eyes are dark and they are facing down. Away from him. “My first relationship was with a woman. And naturally I lost my virginity to her. But I remember my reaction to sex itself was just… ‘that's it?’ She seemed to enjoy it and love it. But I didn’t, not really.  I liked that it made her happy. I tried to like it as much as her. For her.” 

Lucifer remembered Alastor discussing his second relationship briefly, on the night of their first kiss. He remembered that one was with a man. He briefly wondered if Alastor was into both men and women or just men now? Another time…

“Eventually, we’d been together for long enough that I thought I could bring my discomfort to her. And talk about it. But she took it as an insult. That just because I didn’t particularly enjoy sex itself, I didn’t love her. But that wasn’t what I was trying to say. However she didn’t see it that way,” he pauses. Lucifer sees the way Alastor’s shoulders tighten. “She looked at me like something was wrong with me. And that was that. And I was on to my next relationship within a year. You already know about that one. But what you don’t know is that the end result was more or less the same.”

Lucifer wants to hug him. …He doesn’t.

“I…I actually quite enjoyed Vox’s personality. He was similar to me, in a way. We both liked to dance, we liked jazz and singing. We shared a lot of common interests. And once again I thought we’d be on the same page if I voiced my discomfort. But again, he had a similar reaction. He didn’t take my statement as not loving him, but took it as there being something wrong with me. ‘How can a man not love sex. You're a man. Are you sure you like men? Because maybe you just prefer to bed a woman.’ Is essentially what he told me.”

“What a dick.” Lucifer mutters, unable to help it.

Alastor actually chuckles, just a little.  “Yes that…didn’t feel too nice to hear.” He shrugged, “he also said that it was something I’d learn to like in time. And that I was just getting bored, or it was because it was new. So…we tried a lot of things. …I tried a lot of things for him. But I didn’t like any of them. I liked how he seemed to like it. But, I didn’t like it. And I didn’t really like how much we did it. I just wanted to hang out or cuddle honestly. Having sex was…fine, once in a while but I felt guilty. Like, there was something wrong with me because I was never as into it as they were.”

“In the time I’ve come to get to know you, Lucifer. I’ve learned you are a very open-minded and down to earth man. That’s something I’m very grateful for, because it was something those two lacked. But you are still a man, a person. And I imagine you still have needs and desires. And…” Alastor hesitates, he swallows and continues a bit more cautiously. “Truth be told, I’m a bit scared. That I will disappoint you the same way I disappointed them. So, that's why I’m bringing this up now. I do adore you, and Charlie. But I can understand if this…if me being broken like this deters you from going any further in this relationship.”

“Alastor.” Lucifer says abruptly, Alastor flinches. He flinches?! Lucifer tried to hold his tongue but couldn't help it anymore. So he lets everything spill out about what he’s been thinking. Uncaring of how messy it comes out. 

“There’s not a damn thing wrong with you Alastor. You're not broken or anything.” The brunette finally looks at him, and he’s…surprised? Taken aback? Like he was expecting him to say something else. Lucifer continues. “Look, I…I’m not really that into sex either. I like it, sure. But that's not all there is to a relationship.” He shrugs, his cheeks tinting pink a little but he continues to look at Alastor. He needs to know Alastor is listening. “I love hanging out with you, I love it when you go with me and Charlie on outings.” He pauses, taking one of Alastor's hands in his own and squeezing it. Alastor smiles. Lucifer does too. “I like this. Just sitting here in bed with you. I like having these sleepovers where we just lay in bed and talk about things we like. Or talk about our day…I like you. And I want you to be comfortable with me. I don’t think it’s weird that you aren’t into sex. It’s fine. And you shouldn’t think you're broken or anything like that because you're not. You're amazing Alastor. And if you're not super into sex that’s completely fine with me. As long as I can still smother you with kisses.`` He pauses, “if that's something you're comfortable with?”

Alastor grins. His face lights up. “Always.” Lucifer pulls Alastor in for a hug and he gladly accepts. Pressing his face against Lucifer's shoulder. Lucifer holds him there like he’s protecting him from the world. And Alastor holds onto him with a new found love.  “Should we ever get to that bridge though…” Alastor says, his voice a little muffled but Lucifer can understand him. “I…I wouldn’t be against it. With you.” 

He can see the tips of Alastor’s ears tinting red. But he doesn’t make a comment on it. “Yeah well…” Now Lucifer blushes. “Likewise. But…let’s just enjoy being together for right now.” 

Alastor hums, more than happy to do that. His body finally relaxes in Lucifer’s hold and before either of them know it they’ve fallen asleep. 

[martinsharmony]

In defense of RP Shipping and RP Fiction

I don’t normally come out and give my opinion on things like this so plainly about such controversial things. I tend to shy away from confrontational writing such as this. However this idea has been brewing in my mind for some time now so I had to write it.

I am a Real Person Shipper.

I’m seeing people talk a lot more about RP shipping (and the hate towards it) since David Tennant and Michael Sheen appeared smiling at each other in a photo after David's appearance in Macbeth.

RP Shipping is not a choice.

When I caught the shipping bug, it hit me like lightning. It occurred to me one night as I lay in bed next to the husband with which I had a deteriorating relationship: “are there stories about Dave Gahan and Martin Gore…being together??”

Dave Gahan/Martin Gore (Gahore) are in Depeche Mode. They were my 1st ship as an adult. You can read about it here. Obviously Depeche Mode is a band so there is no fictional narrative anywhere to follow. I quickly learned that RP shipping was taboo. However in my shipping community we all shipped the band so I was more or less insulated from it.

I dove in headfirst. I literally couldn’t not do it. It was something my brain needed. Sure I could have forced myself to not go look for it because of some kind of moral (?) imperative which I wasn’t even aware of at the time, but even if I stopped myself, that would not stop my brain from wanting it. Making up stories and scenarios. Finding evidence in videos, songs, interviews, etc. I shipped these two people because of what I had observed between them.

I saw love. So did my shipping friends. We all saw it. I needed to experience it. My life lacked it.

My next RP ship was Martin Freeman and Benedict Cumberbatch (FreeBatch). First I fell in love with Sherlock and John, obviously. But then as I started to follow the fandom, I started noticing the same things that others noticed. My brain just went there. I literally had no choice. It’s not as if I could tell my brain “don’t do that”. It would not listen. You can’t tell a starving person to not think about food. In fact telling them that probably makes it worse.

In my personal life, I had been through a breakup with the man I dated after I got divorced, and then I began dating a woman for the 1st time. I really started to relate what I was seeing on the screen and reading on Tumblr and in fic to my own life. I was starting to process my own bisexuality. I started to notice things about Martin and Ben that other people were noticing too. Shipping them helped me navigate that time in my life because I saw myself in it. I related to it. But it wasn't a choice. My brain just went there. Maybe I was Baader-Meinhoffing but even if I was, that doesn’t mean it’s something I didn’t need to explore, work out in my mind, and discover.

Shennant (Michael Sheen and David Tennant) is my 3rd RP ship. Yes I fell in love with Aziraphale and Crowley of course, but again, as I started to follow the fandom and David’s and Michael’s careers specifically, watching interviews, watching Staged, etc, I started noticing the same thing that many others noticed. I literally couldn’t help it. My brain, again, just went there. Also in Staged of course, they play themselves. I have to say that my RP Shipping really took off after I watched them in that. They play themselves. Their actual partners are in it. If one were to write Staged fic, is that not RPF? Where is the line between what is supposed to be okay and what is not?

Again, with this ship, I had big things going on in my personal life. Dad passed away almost a year and a half ago, and now I'm taking care of my elderly mom long distance. It's a huge emotional burden. I'm not dating anyone right now mostly because of that but also because I was in a poly relationship with the male half of a het married couple (longtime friends of mine) that ended extraordinarily painfully (so this was V or chain-style poly not group-sex poly). Since then I've been alone for more than 2 years. I'm still getting over it.

The love I see between Michael and David feels unconditional. I see adoration. If they are indeed in a healthy poly relationship, my god, how on earth did they do that? Even while navigating fame? It’s certainly a lot more difficult than my own situation. I can explore it: What kind of person feels safe to me the way I believe David feels safe with Michael? What kind of relationship can withstand the kind of obstacles they (and I) might face? What would have had to actually happened for them to be as happy as they seem to be? What discussions were had? What agreements were reached? How does one do this the right way? What does that tell me about my own relationship and what went wrong? What should have happened?

This is, in its most academic sense, a tool for my brain to heal and to discover what kind of a relationship I want. And my brain knows it. That’s why it ships. My heart doesn’t know that. It just knows I love seeing them happy together. This is the magnet that drew me.

RP Shipping helps us to work shit out in our personal lives.

I bought Spark edited by Atlin Merrick recently. One of the essays by Angela Nauss, LMFT (Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist) really stood out to me is titled Sympathy for the Devil: Attachment Theory and FanFiction.

The article is about fanfiction authors, however I would extrapolate this to include readers and RP Shippers as well. RP Shippers are authors of narratives in their own mind, even if they are not always written down.

From the book:

“Fanfiction authors process attachment wounds using fictional characters as proxies…to process and understand the origin of the problems encountered during adolescence.”

“Some authors write fanfiction to humanize uncomfortable aspects of their identity, grieve and repair damaged relationships, and process attachment wounds…by exploring how the character would behave in adaptive relationships.”

“Fanfiction authors project their unconscious trauma onto the characters.”

“The characters gain insight into their behavior and no longer feel responsible for their childhood attachment wounds. Through their writing, the author incorporates repressed trauma and attachment wounds into their conscious experience and achieves catharsis.”

“Writing fanfiction is a valid form of therapeutic self-exploration.”

I’ve been in therapy for several years, In fact the poly relationship I was in is why I seeked out therapy in the 1st place. I know that shipping these people, exploring aspects of that, is helping me to heal attachment wounds and the trauma caused by past relationships.

As part of my healing from this poly relationship I was in, I intend to write a meta and/or a fic about David and Michael. I know it will aid in my healing. I may or may not post it.

Also, even Shakespeare wrote RPF.

I’m seeing people say that we RP Shippers are terrible, immoral, disgusting, gross people and that we want David and Michael to leave their partners. That we want to break up their families. Let me be clear that I want nothing of the sort.

There are people out there that want to "protect" them from this “immorality” by shaming us, berating us, calling us names. Even sending certain blogs directly to Georgia and Anna! This is the exact opposite of what actions like this are actually doing. This does not protect them from harm. It creates it.

There is no such thing as thought crime.

Not only is it impossible for me to choose not to ship these people, but I also get the sense that even thinking about it is supposed to be wrong. That it makes me an immoral person.

Something I keep seeing is that people are so upset that we RP Shippers are doing this. Like, why don’t we just, stop. Just look at all the other appropriate characters that are out there to ship! Or just never start in the first place. As if this was a choice we are making to consciously ship real people.

When shippers ship a couple, do they choose that couple consciously? Do they say, hmm, I'm going to ship X person and Y person because it's...logical? Or for whatever consciously thought of reason? I'm going to go out on a limb and speak for mostly all shippers and say no. Shippers ship because we see something in those 2 characters that we are drawn to like magnets, for whatever reason. Real People included. If you're on Tumblr for a fandom and read fic, you know what I'm talking about.

Male/Male relationships is a fetish, or a kink, for me. And by extension, RPS/RPF as well. I do enjoy thinking about what might be the "reality" behind the curtain that we are shown as part of their public personas. This is part of the ingredients to this fetish, or kink, for me.

Kink is defined by Wikipedia as “the use of non-conventional sexual practices, concepts or fantasies. The term derives from the idea of a “bend” (a “kink”) in one’s sexual behaviour, to contrast such behaviour with “straight” or “vanilla” sexual mores and proclivities. It is thus a colloquial term for non-normative sexual behaviour.”

A fetish is defined by Wikipedia as referring “to any sexually arousing stimuli, not all of which meet the medical criteria for fetishism. This broader usage of fetish covers parts or features of the body (including obesity and body modifications), objects, situations and activities (such as smoking or BDSM).”

Generally, modern sexual health thinking seems to say “So long as your fetish doesn’t get in the way of your own well-being, the safety of others, and your partners participate enthusiastically, there is nothing wrong with it.”

It seems to be another taboo to claim gay (or bi/pansexual) men as a fetish, or a kink. There are some who claim that it’s objectifying the very real experiences of gay men. I struggle with this because I can't deny that I enjoy it but I also don't want to hurt anyone.

I am not a gay man. I will never be a gay man. I am a cis bisexual woman. I can never know what that experience is like. This is, in essence, the core of the fantasy. It can feel as good and perfect and romantic and loving as I want it to be because I don’t have the parts or experience to know it first hand. Therefore I've come to the conclusion that my thoughts in my head and anything I write down in a safe space does not hurt anyone. For me personally, it’s a way to disconnect from myself. People enjoy fic for all sorts of reasons. I shouldn’t have to prove that my reasons are "wholesome" to be allowed to enjoy it.

I don’t enjoy reading het fiction for reasons I won’t go into, however they are probably not individual to just me alone. Hoards of women like me also enjoy the same thing.

So yeah. To the surprise of absolutely no one, thinking about Michael and David, or Martin and Ben, or Dave and Martin, or men in general, kissing or having sex or a romance with each other – turns me on. That leads me to state the following:

Anti-RP Shipping and Anti-RP Fiction is kink shaming.

When I say "Anti", I'm referring to those who loudly object to it. Not those who (thankfully) say "that's not for me" and move on. Just like I would with say, Omegaverse.

Because my interpretation of these real people is in reality, “fiction” in my own head, then by definition all RP Shipping is RP Fiction. It cannot be reality because I don’t know them. Therefore any stories, speculation, comments, analysis, conclusions, art, etc, IS ALL FICTION.

Real people are characters to your brain.

Obviously I don’t know them personally, so anything that I were to believe or create in my head about them is by definition, fiction. My brain makes it up according to what I’ve seen, read, heard, observed and drew conclusions from. This creates a fictional reality for my brain to consume. It can’t be reality because I don’t know them.

Wikipedia says RPF writers are “building a fictional universe based on the supposed real-life histories of their idols. Information from interviews, documentaries, music videos, and other publicity sources are assimilated into the stories. It is also very popular to write fiction about celebrity couples. Communities of writers build collective archetypes based on the celebrities' public personas".

I would never, under any circumstances, present any RPS/RPF questions, stories, insinuations, or even mention it at all directly to the actors/musicians/personalities or their partners or even anyone associated with them. I would be beyond embarrassed to do so. Even though Michael himself seems to be accepting of it, I would never present it to him. Never. (I mean it’s not like I could really anyway but still).

I believe that 99.9% of RP Shippers would do the same. It’s the .01% that have done so (and unscrupulous “journalists” looking to shock by asking questions/showing them the RPF, and those people claiming to prevent harm by sending it directly to them “for legal action” or tattletale “look at what these terrible people are doing” and blaming the RP shippers for creating it – wow talk about projection) -that make a bad name for us all. Showing it to them and asking them about it IS a choice.

If RP Shipping is not a choice, a way to work out personal mental health issues, is fictional by definition, and a non-pathological aid to sexual excitement that hurts no one if it is contained within safe spaces such as fic sites and Tumblr, then what exactly is the harm?

Tumblr is a safe space.

Why is there such vitriol against RP Shipping and RPF? You claim to be protecting the actors or people in question, but by raising your voices so loudly in various ways, you are harming the very person you claim to be protecting. I think you have to ask what it is within yourself that makes you so aggressively hate this? Why can't we just say "that's not for me" and move on?

Don't we on Tumblr and on AO3 celebrate non-mainstream ideas such as this? Or if not celebrate, at least live and let live. The fact is that Tumblr is supposed to be a safe space. I should feel safe speaking my mind here. I know quite a few RP shippers follow me so I don't feel completely alone, but I don't feel entirely safe posting this.

My morality is not yours to police.

I strongly doubt I’ll be changing anyone’s mind with this. If you’re Anti RP shipping and Anti RPF you’re probably going to stay that way.

Don’t like, don’t read.

You can unfollow, block people, block tags, filter tags on AO3...any number of things. Think of it like a trigger. Just please don't spew hate.