#I might have those episode numbers wrong because 47 is a weird episode to end on

[steve0discusses]

Yugioh S3 Ep 46-47: We Have an Extra Episode, Just Blow Up the Island, I Dunno

Yo can you even believe this season is over?

It was honestly a two-season season, when you think about it. This tournament that was only like a week in showtime but two years in watch time if it was 2001 and I was tuning in every week. Kinda nuts when you think about it.

Anyways, it’s over, and not even the Kaibas are willing to really let it end. They’re camping out in their bunker they just set to explode, just watching everyone run around like ants while the sirens wail across the island (do you NEED emergency sirens if no one else lives on this island?)

And we get one more time for the writers of this show to flip over the Kaiba timeline like pancakes and I just...

I can’t believe they did this to me, but at the same time I can totally see how they just let this one fly under the radar, just wait for it, it’s coming.

(read more under the cut)

So this sort of explains a little bit more of why Kaiba insists on building Kaibaland when it already exists, as apparently the Japanese Kaibaland was just the first of a franchise. Like seriously what child dreams of Franchising? He has Kaibaland but is like “I won’t be truly happy at all and I will try to cut people up with card games until there are more Kaibalands. That will surely make me happy. More Kaibalands.”

But then, sitting in the middle of the orphanage, he stands up in his 70′s ass sweatervest and proudly proclaims:

This borked timeline.

Back in the present Joey is feeling stressed out so he’s turned to his only coping mechanism, that’s right, he’s hassling people.

Duke, who has a million motivations to want to kill Kaiba, since he works for Pegasus, brings up the bright idea of “or I dunno, we could leave them? Like they very much caused every event of the last week to happen outside of the random ass cultists.”

And so, now that Joey has exhausted things to hassle, let them be Roland or the massive engines on the blimp-plane, he decides to board the helicopter. I kid you not, Tea turns to Joey as they’re boarding the copter and says basically along the lines of this:

WTF, show. Like what? Like whaaaat? Anyway, don’t think about how big a helicopter is on the inside, because we’re just gonna shove everyone in here like it’s a mosh pit. Good thing that no one actually packed any luggage or pajamas, so at least that will keep the weight down.

Please admire the height of Yugi compared to Roland.

What followed was an explosion that the show did for...some reason. This didn’t need to happen. This was needless anxiety and it’s like..the season’s over why are we doing this???

So this is just a very Yugioh moment where...they didn’t really HAVE to blow up the island at the last minute. They didn’t HAVE to break the engines on the blimp-plane and they absolutely didn’t HAVE to put Seto Kaiba in a jet in the same very un-aerodynamic shape of a blue eyes white wife.

But they did.

If I’ve learned anything from watching Yugioh is that you must always, at every moment, be going 400%.

Seto just wanted to make a simple visual statement of “I want to move on from the past” so he decided to uh...do a very theatrical statement that was so theatrical that everyone thought that not only he and Mokuba had died, but that they, themselves, were about to die (and they were, they absolutely were)

Please admire the way they drew Seto from the side in this scene.

Anyway, now that the completely unnecessary “lets blow up the island and destroy the ecosystem” drama is over, and Kaiba’s off to encourage Global Warming in some other part of the globe, it’s time to send Marik off on his boat. It’s time for him to go have Marik Boat Time and never ever become a spinoff series although you know I would absolutely watch the hell out of that.

So, they choose the most idyllic landscape to do it, here in the abandoned warehouse district, surrounded by shipping cranes and strangely empty cruise liners. Ah, that twilight hour sunset. The way the sunlight kisses the corners of the abandoned warehouse’s windows.

I am absolutely shocked our background artist didn't use the chance to paint it neon orange. They love neon orange so much but I guess they save the neon for dramatic scenes. This one they left a more natural Instagram creamy color palate.

(PS at this point I guess Bakura decided to go home or go to the hospital. Whichever reason he decided to bounce, he bounced without saying goodbye to anyone apparently. That or the show just decided that no one cares about Bakura so he was the only one we didn’t say a farewell too, which is hilarious since he’s one of the most popular characters on this show.

Bro broke it to me, this whole story line of the puzzle and the tablet and all that--nah. By the time we get to it I’ll have forgotten all of the lore, pretty sure. Bro did ask me if we could skip S4 and I said no we are here for the worst parts first, Bro. When it gets horrible is when we’re finally getting to the good stuff.

Then, Duke suddenly remembered that before this tournament, he was only going on a walk between laundry loads but ended up abducted twice over, stranded on a submarine, an island, and nearly exploded. That and he had to sleep on one of Kaiba’s weird cube couches and that probably sucked. But it’s time for him to pull out his colors and add some bounce sheets to his whites for the dryer.

Can you believe they had Duke Devlin for two seasons but he only dueled once? Lol.

I can’t believe there was never a purpose for Duke Devlin other than to be eye-candy. I’ve only ever really seen this trope done to girls.

Mai also suddenly remembers that she doesn’t live here.

TBH, if Mai wasn’t put in a coma, I think she would have just left the tournament after she lost. She’d have pulled out a hang-glider from her pack and just sailed away rather than spend another minute with people she isn’t absolutely required to hang out with. That seems more her jam.

And then they had to frame up this Joey/Mai ship and...it’s just so funny when you remember that Mai is like waaay to old for Joey. She’s like 24 and he’s a baby but he’s pretty sure that he’s disappointing her so much by not telling her all about how he’s crushing. He’s pretty sure she just has no idea when it’s like, no, she does, and she does not want you to acknowledge it.

As she goes off, Tea for some reason decides to make it her responsibility for Joey to go out there and I guess...mortally embarrass himself in front of his much older crush? I mean you don’t really have to admit to your teachercrush that...you like her? Like, Mai is just a teachercrush right? Like he respects and admires her, she’s pretty, and there’s no other girls but Tea and Miho? Like that’s it?

This weird ass couple. And I mean it’s a weird pairing just because it can never happen on screen, but as some of you have pointed out--it is probably the healthiest couple in Yugioh. Mostly because we know that it will never happen. Unlike everyone else where it’s like, Joey better go eat both those pieces of paper with those phone numbers on it because holy hell a 16 yo dating a 12 yo is pretty freakin wild. What are those boys even going to talk about with Serenity? How wild fractions are? How to make a replica of a cell out of Jello for the science fair? Because that’s the level she’s at.

I was an architecture student once (I know. Ya’ll who’ve read many of these have probably noticed I attempted to major in nearly every art alignment so it’s probably very confusing to figure out wtf I actually ended up finishing in school (it was Illustration) ) so I just can’t with Yugi’s house. We have seen several rooms inside this house and none of them, absolutely none, line up with the outside of Yugi’s house (which is smack dab in the middle of the inner city for some reason??? Like does Yugi have PARKING? This is the most expensive two story house in Japan, it comes with free parking.

And like...I have tried to lay it out but it doesn’t make sense. The stairs of the shop go directly into the front door. The second floor would be half a staircase, so where is this living room? And assuming that Yugi is on the top floor with the slanted roof window...how? Is it the entire floor? what is going on here?

It’s a cartoon, I shouldn’t think about it, but this house is a Dr. Who police box. Anyways, Yugi decides to sneak out of the house by going down the stairs that are again, right in front of the front door. You cannot go through the front door of this house because these damn stairs are directly in the way.

Hey check out who’s alive, it’s Grandpa. I guess he’s...fine? I guess he just woke up on the floor of Bakura’s hospital room and was like “Screw that, I’m going home.” and then just peaced out here until Yugi came back.

I respect his moon pj’s to go with Yugi’s star pj’s.

I can’t imagine being in Grandpa’s position and seeing your boy go out there and get nearly killed by crazy ass cultists again and Seto Kaiba (who put him in a coma), and then catching him Sneaking Out. Like if I were Grandpa I’d just set up camp right outside of the front door because holy hell Yugi is so attracted to danger he’s just gonna waltz around the city in the middle of the night to play cards.

++++++++++RANT ABOUT TACO BELL, FEEL FREE TO SKIP THIS IS JUST ME TALKING ABOUT THE TACO BELL MENU+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Also I looked up Taco Bell in Japan thinking that this wouldn’t be a thing (from what I’ve heard, the only food Japan cannot do is Mexican) but not only does Taco Bell in Japan completely exist, guess what the menu is like? Just go ahead and guess in your head, I’m gonna go over the menu right now because this is very important.

I was expecting it to be pretty wild with a black taco shell made out of squid ink or something but surprisingly, it’s mostly the freakin same but different meats. Like they have a few more pork options (I guess instead of chicken?) and they have a shrimp taco--which I feel like we’ve done in the States before but everyone didn’t like that. Also, you can apparently get a crunchwrap, but it’s in a triangle shape instead of an octagon. They just changed the shape and called it a “stuffed grilled giant nacho”.

Obviously, they do not have a Ranch Doritos taco since America is the only place that is fully obsessed with Ranch. I have heard from so many people from Asia that “can we just not have Ranch today? Can we have a single spread without this weird garlic sauce? And...are you dipping your pizza with it? Is there one thing you haven’t coated with Ranch Dressing?” and it’s like no. There isn’t. Would you like to try our taco bell taco that is frosted in messy Ranch dust?

Like it really feels like this is the one fast food joint where everyone else has the normal Taco bell, and weirdly WE are are the people with the weird ass version of Taco Bell. Even Japan was like “you guys do you over there with your pink Starburst flavored frozen icee and your Quesarito...we’re just gonna put some extra cheese on a taco and call it ‘double cheese.’”

But here’s the craziest thing on the menu--the Taco Bell in Japan has FRIES.

I KNOW.

WHAT????

What would Taco Bell fries even taste like? Would they taste...tacoey? I mean I know that nacho fries are a thing that kinda comes and goes but I’ve never had them actually. Its never the right moment for nacho fries when Nacho fries are still on the menu.

but, I will say they do have one kind of weird thing on the menu I see online. I say “kind of” because it’s...just weird, it’s not actually all that out there as compared to our weird things in Taco bell. They got something called the “honey cheese pocket” which was a small plain flour tortilla filled with melted Monterey Jack cheese rolled into a cigar that you dip into honey.

...I mean...it probably tastes good, but if you released a honey cheese pocket in the States and pretended that’s Mexican food, I’m pretty sure every state touching the south border would cry a single Zesty-ranch-doritos-taco-shaped-tear. I know I would, at the same rate I’m stuffing honey cheese pockets directly into my mouth.

AND...apparently you can just serve alcohol in a Japanese Taco Bell. Which is interesting, because we had that episode of Season Zero where Yugi had to find alcohol in a burger joint, which seemed really odd to me at the time, but I guess you can just serve alcohol in whatever restaurant? Anyways, Taco bell has alcohol so now Yugi can light people on fire in a Taco Bell, if he really felt like it. Go ahead and append your fanfictions accordingly.

+++++++++END OF TACO BELL RANT, BACK TO CARDS ++++++++++++

So, can you imagine having a friend who forces you to wake up at o-dark hundred in order to play cards when you already attend all of the same classes and see eachother every minute of the day otherwise? Can you imagine having a friend like this?

Then again I’m not 100% on whether Pharaoh needs to sleep. It’s pretty clear that Bakura’s ghost doesn’t sleep much (or apparently eat much) so maybe it goes the same for Pharaoh as well that he needs Yugi to remind him how to be human.

Then there was this weird review episode they slapped on at the end. I...don’t know why they put it there, it was really more of an afterthought since nothing really got added or taken away from the finale. It was just a review episode of “in case you didn’t watch this season, here’s what happened this season” But the episode wasn’t over before Tea angsted the hell out about this kid that I guess she’s...

Tea thinks in her head about Yugi more than she talks directly to Yugi. That’s really my biggest issue with this couple. Tea can be so lukewarm towards Yugi and visa versa and then occasionally Tea will just snap and obsesses over this boy, but never tells him about it directly. Except for that one time in the blimp, which was more about “please don’t die”. But have they talked about how freakin anxious she is about how he’ll die? Nah.

It just feels like the writing team had one person who really liked Tea/Yugi, and then the rest who were like “fine, wtv” and so we get a real inconsistent narrative of this pair, that only seems to come up for drama, but then goes right back to being invisible moments later. Like sightings of a giant squid.

Ah, back where they started, on a date with a ghost. I think. This might be a date? It started at 2 PM so I don’t know that counts as a date yet.

These two are a lot.

And honestly...If it was going to happen it should have happened at some point in the end of this arc. She made such a big deal about him going off to card war, and now he’s back and she’s like...ok, cool.

They’re not gonna even talk about it? Or like...maybe high five it out? High five out those feelings? Man I feel so bad for anyone that shipped these two.

But anyway,

I’d add it to the Yugioh Death Count but that’s assuming that I don’t find an excuse to use this font again.

So yeah, that’s it for Season 3 (I wrote in Season 4 just now and had to really think about it because like...it really does feel like I went through 4 seasons, at least, of this show since every season is like 50 episodes)

Originally, when I started this, I thought there were only 3 seasons of Yugioh total. This was the end goal.

But I guess I’m committed now, so we’ll start up Season 4, which bro tells me is “completely different and not what you expected” but I probably won’t post until 2 weeks from now because this is a side hobby and I don’t need to wax long about my main-life stress, but youknow how it is: the more stuff I add the more stuff adds up. However, I do cope with stress by typing, so maybe I’ll just make sooo many updates to combat it? I dunno. But the blog will be back for S4. Eventually. When I get to it.

Many thanks to all y’all who’ve left many kind comments, I’ve been kind of tasked for time lately, so I haven’t really responded to many, but know that I see them and I’m thankful for them and I tell bro about them and he finds many of them amusing and y’all are just very, very nice. Wish Tumblr had an actual comments system since the only way to reply is like...it’s weird. If I reblog my own post I run the risk of it then being out of chronological order for people wanting to read that link I put at the base of each post so...I have to either make a new post to reply or reply within the post and I dunno if y’all can even see that type of reply...it’s tumblr problems.

Anyway, I’ll have a Graveyard for next weekend, maybe an art post, I dunno. But, I’m not dead, just watching how weird the next season is and making a buffer.

And here’s that link to read all these recaps in chrono order from the beginning

[reynie-muldoons]

'The Art of Conveyance and Round-Trippery' Liveblog!

Sorry this is a few days late!! I moved across the country this weekend, we drove like 13 hours within 2 days and we did a lot of heavy lifting. I'm exhausted, but the boxes are slowly emptying and I've been wanting to watch this episode so gd bad, so LESGO

Over halfway through the season!!!! That's absolutely surreal

1:11 oooh they're getting their royal fitting

1:22 LMAOO WTF 😂😂 Princess Diaries vibes

1:42 ✨CONFIDENCE✨

1:52 Alfonse is a perfect name for that guy HAHA

2:05 Nathaniel, my guy, you've made some points

2:11 "do you feel your power?" POWER RANGERS, GO

2:24 no no hesitation just prolly thinkin bout how he was caught cheatin

2:39 "can you not allow yourselves luxury?" okay fr I feel that I get Nice Things Guilt(tm) too easily

2:52 dayummmm let's talk about Sticky being a hat stall between Hufflepuff and Gryffindor, mans is brave as fuck under extreme pressure and loyal to the point of putting himself on the line

3:15 bro Sticky getting some recognition. Love to see it, he deserves it

3:19 "is that a coincidence? Or written in the stars?" IS DR. CURTAIN CATCHING ON THAT THEY KNEW EACH OTHER BEFORE OR LIKEEEE

3:49 WHAT WORD AROUND CAMPUS 😭😭😭 MY BOYS ARE NOT A MISTAKE HOW DARE YOU

4:09 why doess the action of Dr. Curtain putting the sash on them seem so nefarious

4:36 I dont really understand the whole pastel yellow, blue, and pink palette of the school but the boys both look pretty okay in their vest-sash getup

4:42 THE OPENINGGGGG. This shit slaps.

5:41 Kate and Constance look so fucking cute in that shot, dont ask me why but hnnggggg

5:54 sash rope 😂😭 kate, honey, that's a reach

6:09 it might feel buttery, but, my guy, it also looks buttery. It's literally the color of butter. Get yourself some crisco

6:24 I find it kinda interesting that they made up new riddles for the show, I'm almost positive that that one wasn't in the book. Correct me if I'm wrong though

7:03 "I'm not gonna apologize for knowing things" the sass. the ✨confidence✨. living for it

7:03 If they build on that it sets Sticky up really nicely for the arc in the second book where he starts to show off a little

7:15 tiny Constance who is constantly dressed in pink with cute little braids is the perfect medium for the most morbid comments 😂😂

7:55 Martina's hot in her uniform. Can't prove me wrong.

8:15 why does that make me sad 🥺 eat with your friendssss. iirc they only talked about eating at the Messenger table in the books

8:26 dipshits forgot their lunches. Seems Constance is holding the communal braincell atm

8:50 anyone have Guiness on speed dial? Reynie and Sticky have a submission for them

9:25 oh hello this was alluded to in the preview!!! Morse code is compromised, rip

10:05 so are Jackson and Jillson stuck with night guard duty all the time?? They've been outside at night a lot

10:18 ahhhhhh the little blinkie light, stopppp

10:25 MILLIGANNNNN!!!

10:25 so is this the point where he starts staying on the island with them????

10:39 so are they just like "fuck it we'll do it right before sundown" ???? Like Jackson and Jillson are still gonna be on the lookout, they aren't gonna chill just because it's not fully dark

10:50 did the kids.....just not tell them that Mr. Bloom was on the island 😂 nice oversight guys

11:05 MADGE TIME MADGE TIME

11:05 remind me to tell you guys a story about Madge, I may or may not have done something irl a few years ago that would make y'all proud 😂😂😂

11:16 idk why but it makes me so happy that they kept Madge as a peregrine falcon

11:37 Rhonda, my love, you have my heart in your hands

11:46 roll credits

12:05 THE HEAD SHAKE HAHAHAH

12:06 Awww man, I was so excited for Milligan to be on the island .-. He must have been scoping out the inlet

12:07 "they're quite regal" A. I read the subtitles as "legal" the first time and that's somehow really in character for him, and B. IS MILLIGAN GOING TO NAME HER???!? HER MAJESTY???? PLEASE I WOULD LOVE THAT SO MUCH

12:15 his grimace KILLS ME

12:17 the hard cut from Nicholas in a brown setting and brown suit to Nathaniel in a blue setting and blue suit was lowkey striking

12:36 are they looking up Morse code 😳 can you imagine if they wrote down the message and are now decoding it

12:41 omfg all that for a HAT 🙃 I feel stupid

12:51 two things: 1. Those walls are atrocious, and 2. Yeah, talk about Morse code in a louder voice Connie girl, you're just in a public hallway

13:03 I'm sorry but those orange pillar things are not the vibe

13:03 the golden gate bridge called, they want their arches back

13:10 please let Kate climb the tower before the end of season 1. please.

13:22 y'all are about to be flying something else 😎

13:33 cleansing breaths

13:47 OH HELLO MESSENGER DUTY ALREADY??

14:06 what the heck is that teal pole for 😭😭

14:12 blindfold timeeee

I'm so sorry but I'm exhausted, it's 11:30 pm on Sunday night right now, I'll finish this episode tomorrow morning after I get some sleepies

~~

Good morningggg lesgetatit

14:50 "vomit of metal" ashhdjdjd

15:16 a wild Martina appears!

15:36 and if you folks look to your left, you'll see a wild Constance being the voice of reason once again

15:57 "lose the bucket" "I'm not gonna do that" HELL YEAH KATE

16:07 I get not having the bucket on the court lolol, I thought Martina was telling Kate to lose the bucket in general. Like, yeah, good luck convincing her to so that

16:35 show!Kate is much angrier than book!Kate and I'm still deciding how I feel about that. The Kate we've known from the books is a sunshine baby with looots of repressed trauma.

17:03 ......what is that. why is that.

17:11 WAIT IS THAT SUPPOSED TO BE REYNIE AHEHDJDJD

17:15 HI MADGE

17:41 the grand swell in the music makes me think it's going to go comically wrong

17:51 she's majestic because she's a queen 🥺

18:03 LMAO CALLED IT

18:14 Rhonda and Number Two getting at each other is such a sisterly thing to do 😂😂😂

18:37 ohhhhh? Someone's approaching? Miss Perumal perhaps????

18:45 YEAHHHHH BABY

18:50 PROTECTIVE MOM COMIN IN HOT!!!

19:22 THEYRE SO PRECIOUS 😭😭😭😭 I feel like I've been subconsciously starved for her and Mr. Benedict's interactions

19:36 died at that line in the one trailer

20:00 so Miss Perumal pulled a Sherlock Holmes. Love that for her

20:20 Cheri Tupintown??? Of all the aliases they could pick, Cheri Tupintown???

20:33 "Power in Truth Inc" that HAS to be something Rhonda came up with

21:01 you can literally watch Mr. Benedict realize that this is a woman not to be fucked with and he is CORRECT

21:23 "he's fine. Perfectly fine." At this, Mr. Benedict's pants caught aflame.

21:52 something about Constance sitting in on practice!!! It scratches an itch!!!!

22:19 "incorporate the helix. Live in the helix." Lord Helix is pleased with this offering.

22:26 so what I'm hearing is Kate is going to blow up on Constance for messing with the bucket

23:13 unrelated but Jillson'a shoes are cute

23:29 why does this room give off Johnny Depp's willy wonka vibes

24:13 that looks like a chair from a doctor's office waiting room 😭

25:29 they do be egg heads tho

26:02 baby girl, I have no idea why you're crying at weird art but let me dry your tears 🥺🥺

26:50 SHE FOUND ITTTT

27:27 okay Indiana Jones, go off

27:46 why did that kinda sound like Miss Perumal

28:43 the return of everyone's favorite, "enjoyable"

29:05 not that I'm not loving the ice breaker questions and the one-sided conversation, but I'm not loving it

29:22 oh so we're getting right into it aren't we

29:54 his eyes being open again makes this infinitely creepier

30:36 "where's your proof?" Miss Perumal doesnt fuck around!!!

31:29 you're telling me Constance has been there all day?? And Kate went to find her???? 🥺

31:58 oh so we're getting right to it then?? Kate addressing her independence and trust issues arc????

33:29 NEWS!!!!

33:49 CONSTANCE RIDING PIGGYBACK!!!!!!

34:04 okay, so they opened the murder hole, what are they gonna do now

34:59 Italian? 🤨 m'sir that is so fancy

34:59 fun story I learned Italian diction in college, so I know a little bit

35:16 "take your time" the whisperer says, immediately repeating the prompt to get the answer sooner

35:31 theeeeere it is

35:46 SOMETHING ABOUT THE WHISPERER SAYING "YOU ARE HOME" 😭😭😭 the show really played up the cult shit!!

36:02 Kate being protective of Constance 🥺

36:20 ohhh shit is it time for Connie girl to have double Reynie? Double Sticky?

36:36 STICKY

36:52 "what kind of nonsense?" HAVE THEY NOT ASKED THAT BEFORE THIS?????

37:14 "and your tiny brain can somehow pick it up!!" KATE STOP 😂😂😂

37:16 "I knew you had to be special in some way." WE DONT HAVE TIME TO UNPACK ALL OF THAT

37:51 she's right, this is disregard for their safety. The show made Mr. Benedict and his team a lot more back-alley and dishonest, and Miss Perumal has every reason to be pissed

38:30 oh good they finally remembered he has narcolepsy

39:38 and the best mom award goes to:

40:38 I was gonna say that this hallway is how I imagined the KEEP in riddle of ages but then I remembered that (spoilers) the Institute is the KEEP

40:46 oh, hello propoganda

41:10 that's the other person Rhonda couldn't contact, along with Mr. Bloom. This has to be the brainsweeping process

41:22 yeppppp

41:44 this dark doctor's office theme gives me horror movie vibes

42:22 ohhhh, so that's how they replaced that scene where the four of them jump in a crate to hide and Sticky drops his glasses in the open

42:47 and so we've come to the part of the story where Sticky and Reynie become infinitely more conflicted

42:47 and since we've reached that point..... can we have the white knight scene? Pretty please? Please Disney I'm begging you-

43:12 so Reynie just figured that out without Constance? :/

44:03 love the manipulation

44:31 I'm sorry, the farm?

44:35 farm and forest????

45:16 "the Emergency has served its purpose" 😳 well okay then murder man

45:39 "one thought, one purpose" the hive mind rises once more

45:48 LOVE THE MANIPULATION

46:07 "what have you done to earn anyone's trust?" VALID

46:26 "please do!" WHY AM I EMOTIONAL

47:06 "we still have the falcon" that you do 😂

47:19 AYYY HERE WE GO!!! Time for Milligan to stay on the island??

47:49 ohhhh Constance, casual telepath strikes again

48:16 "stop it, Kate!" OOOOHHHHH

48:53 that line ("it would be nice to be unburdened") would be funny as shit if not for the fact that Constance is a telepath unbeknownst to herself and can both subconsciously perceive people's thoughts and hear the subliminal messages

49:20 HI MRS. PERUMAL!!!

49:25 wow, she's really going through with it 😳 not that I doubted her, but still, that's dedication

49:39 OH SHIT

50:17 oh, so he's an asshole to SQ too. Got it. Torches and pitchforks? Ready to kick his ass?

50:40 "for the moment, anyway" FUCKIN WHAT

This episode was really good!!! They covered a LOT. I hope Miss Perumal comes back to the group and talks about her findings, I hope Milligan goes to get the kids and they tell him no, and I hope they get that classic 4-person Society brainstorming and binding time that hits that sweet spot

[ikuzeminna]

Scene Analysis - Heero’s Farewell

AKA The Helmet Scene

This is one of the most famous scenes in the entire series. And it’s certainly one of the most interesting as well, thanks to a number of factors. We have a mood change, we have Heero finally fulfilling his promise to Relena to bid her farewell, we have a clear picture of how their relationship has evolved throughout the series, we have a retcon of the previous episode to make this scene work and a million other things, frankly. So, let’s get to dissecting it.

First, the setup. The previous two episodes, episode 46 and 47, present us with a Heero who, in my opinion, acts a lot like during the beginning of the series. It may just be me, but he comes off as rather brusque. Sure, he and Relena may be throwing compliments at each other, but there is a curtness to his tone and the ordering around (”You’ll stay here with me”) that annoy me personally. When Relena initially asks him if he came for her he even deflects, claiming that Noin and the others are worried about her. Sure.

Again, I don’t like it.

If I had to guess, I’d say Ikeda’s intention of not making their relationship romantic but keeping it symbolic paired with being unable to write normal teenager relationships is at play here. I’m putting the blame on him since he is the director, but I may be wrong, so sorry if I am. In any case, the farewell between Heero and Relena is just a loaded glance. They don’t speak, there is a huge distance between them, they just look at each other meaningfully and then Heero gets ready to fight. It’s pretty much Earth and Space, ever at a distance, yet bound by ...uh, something.

Come episode 48, the other writers apparently bound and gagged Ikeda, locked him up in a closet and gave us take 2 of the farewell, which the fandom knows as the helmet scene. And it really shows that someone else was in charge during the last two episodes because we suddenly have the most gentle, most tender sounding Heero in the entire series, complete with sparkly eyes and teddy bears.

And this, I like because the point of Heero’s character arc is regaining his humanity. So having him act like in the beginning kinda ruins that. So thank you, person, who made these decisions.

To clarify, episode 47 has Relena in a dark hangar with her helmet in her hands looking up at Heero who is about to board Wing Zero. He then enters the cockpit and closes it. That’s apparently the end of their interaction. Come episode 48 though, the hangar is lit, the helmets are on and the cockpit is wide open for Relena to jump up and talk to Heero one last time.

And here we see the aforementioned mood change. Gone is Heero’s brusque tone and his weird reluctance to admit any kind of fondness or affection. Instead, he freaking pulls her in during the conversation, because an inch from your face is the ideal distance when speaking to a person apparently. And not just that; he is softly smiling at her the whole time and instead of making it an order, he gently asks her to let him go.

I trust everyone can see how glaringly different this is from their interaction in the previous two episodes.

And there is so much more still. In their conversation Heero reveals his newly made promise to protect Relena (and the Earth Sphere). This goes aaaall the way back to Cinq, where he initially told Quatre he didn’t see much sense in fighting for Relena or her country. Through the various events, he did end up protecting her though, then he was forced to attempt to assassinate her again as Chief Representative of Romefeller and now we are at the point where the peace Relena promises, or at least wants to fight for, is something that Heero believes in.

This is so important for his character because he was the guy who would spout stuff like peace only being the result of war and not believing in it. This is also the lesson he later tries to make Wufei see in their fight in Endless Waltz. Heero is not a soldier anymore at that point; he has become a normal kid who belongs to and wishes for a peaceful world. So yeah, very important moment here.

It really makes me wonder why anyone thought the loaded stare of ep. 47 was enough.

Even more so because here Heero finally fulfills the promise he made Relena back in Cinq: he bids her farewell before leaving. Back in Cinq, and frankly, in all their previous interactions, Heero would just up and leave without a word. It started in episode 6, it happened in 10 and again in Cinq when he went on the suicide mission to Luxembourg. And Relena didn’t even ask anything special of him. She just wanted him to let her know when he’d leave. She didn’t demand a reason, she didn’t want to give him permission, it was just a simple goodbye she wanted.

Yet, Heero does all of the above when they talk. He tells her why he leaves to fight, he asks her to let him go and when she refuses, thinking he is intending to kill himself again for the billionth time, Heero shines even more light on his character development by telling her to believe in him. He isn’t trying to die on the battlefield.

Heero pushes Relena out of the cockpit at this point and gives her a look that honestly creeps me out a little even to this day, as the cockpit closes and he maneuvers Wing Zero into position to take off. Relena, placated by his plea and stare, says the she does believe in him.

And then, because he may not plan to die but is prepared to do so nonetheless if it can bring peace, he actually holds up his end of the promise and tells her that which she previously wished to hear. And it’s wonderful, because he really shouldn’t have.

See, at this point Relena has witnessed and heard of seven attempts and brushes with death of Heero’s. On the beach, at the harbor, falling down the side of the hospital, blowing himself up with his Gundam, asking the Noventas to kill him, nearly getting slaughtered by Zechs and then later by the mobile dolls in Luxembourg, this girl has seen a lot with him. So it’s a very reasonable assumption of hers to think he would do the same thing again here and throw his life away. Which is why Heero has to assure her that’s not his intention.

But because he knows the risks, he knows this might be the last time they talk, so he kinda chickens out a bit there after that bold “believe in me” and bids her farewell nonetheless, just to be on the safe side, I assume. Because he later also tells her not to worry over him since his life isn’t worth much anyway.

And while getting her wish of hearing a goodbye should normally make her happy, Relena freaks here. Here he is, a friend she has known for a long time and who means a lot to her, as he was what gave her the strength to carry on after her father died, sounding like he isn’t going to return. And Relena is heartbroken because Heero is important to her. The parallels to her father show us how much Heero’s death would affect her.

Her crying out Heero’s name in that agonized manner isn’t meant to be taken romantically. This is a girl fearing her friend will die.

I really love this entire scene because it not only gives us heaps of character development and normal human interaction, which those two sorely lack, it also brings a bunch of stuff full circle, illustrates their personalities well and makes for another interesting break from traditions.

What I mean with the last point is that normally (or at least in the 90s), the guy is all business when he has to go out and fight, being all stoically manly about it, while the woman will be emotional and initiate one final time of intimacy, and the guy may respond before going off to battle. I have this overblown image of Chuck Norris, Steven Seagal, Clint Eastwood type of flicks in my head. You know, the manly stuff.

And here we have Gundam Wing, where Relena doesn’t even care about herself or her feelings for him, but instead is only concerned about Heero’s well-being. Which is why I would have totally bought Relena’s feelings for Heero being purely platonic had Endless Waltz with that super tender caress not happened.

Which also portrays her natural selflessness, in contrast to Heero’s credo of living life acting on your emotions. And boy does he act. He is very much cranking up the romance here with how close he pulls her to him and how very tenderly he speaks to her. Ship it or not, it’s obvious here he likes her. Which in turn tints all their previous interactions.

Ikeda might have wanted a purely symbolic relationship between them, but the geniuses behind this episode ruined that. They gave us Heero displaying his feelings for her, which in turn made all that came before a massive slow burn of sorts.

Hah.

This is something I find highly amusing personally. If you removed the helmet scene and that caress from Endless Waltz, I wouldn’t see it. But those two scenes are enough to make me believe there are feelings there and it’s amazing to see how little it takes to make me change my mind. Then again, Gundam Wing is big on subtlety so this is practically on par with screaming it from the rooftops.

But still, thank you. Thank you writers for inserting this scene and generally giving us two amazing final episodes. You hit all the right marks in my book.

[ladylynse]

47- Lucky Charms!

(for this ask game - thanks!)

47) Here’s a fic title - insert a made up title. What would this story be about?

For no apparent reason, my mind first jumped to the cereal. Which is weird, because I’ve never actually eaten that cereal, and I have, by contrast, watched Miraculous Ladybug a lot more recently. (Just…still not the most recent episode.)

So, yeah. I probably would go with an ML fic, not a Supernatural one, though I could see that, too, because lucky charms would also be a thing there. …except there might already be an episode like that? Can’t remember. Anyway. Beside the point.

It starts off innocently enough. People have more or less figured out that severe negative emotions can lead to akumatization. That doesn’t stop people from fighting or anything like that, but it makes them more aware of the situation, and sometimes they can fend off those feelings—anger, sadness, embarrassment, whatever it is—with a little help.

That’s where the Lucky Charms come in.

They’re little trinkets Alya had started making, phone charms and key chains and the like, that had begun more as a means to comfort her sisters than anything else. Alya had been the one to toss out the theory about a negative state of mind making people more vulnerable to akumatization, and everyone who volunteered the story of what they remembered before getting akumatized seemed to confirm it. The Lucky Charms were meant to remind people of simple things, silly things, little every day things—just something to get their mind off of whatever else it had been dwelling on.

Marinette didn’t know about it until it had spread too far to be contained. At some point, while she’d been off stopping Mr. Pigeon again, Alya had brought the idea of these things up to her friends and shown them what she had so far.

Then, all of a sudden, Max was helping her build little mechanical games to distract people and fitting them with bits of circuitry and speakers so they’d play messages or the music Nino picked out. Nath and Marc were sketching up and crafting designs. Ivan and Mylène were helping with assembly. Rose and Juleka were painting. Kim and Alix ran supply and distribution. Even Sabrina got involved when she wasn’t busy with Chloé, volunteering to keep track of the sales.

They weren’t sold for much. It was mostly just to cover off the cost of the materials, and the rest went to a fund for an end-of-year celebration everyone could look forward to.

But, all of a sudden, they were taking personalized orders for an additional fee, and almost every kid in the school had one of Alya’s Lucky Charms.

And the number of akumas Marinette faced from her fellow classmates dropped, even on days when Chloé was in a particularly bad mood.

When Chat Noir asked her if she’d heard of them on patrol one night, well, she couldn’t exactly deny it. They both checked the Ladyblog, and he knew it. Instead, she asked what he was thinking.

And that’s when he’d told her he might know someone who might be able to take Alya’s little project to the next level. As in, out of the school and into the stores for the rest of the people in Paris to use if they so chose.

She’d worried—how could he possibly do something like that when no one knew his identity?—but he waved her off. He was sure he could make it work. He wouldn’t compromise them. Besides, the people he planned to talk to might very well do it anyway, even if he asked as Chat Noir.

And that’s when I’d have a choice to make, Anon. Does this work? Is Hawk Moth finding it harder and harder to akumatize people? Is it a fun little story that ends there and gives everyone more time to breathe? Or does Adrien ask the wrong person—Nathalie, his father—and tip them off that he might know something more than he seems to? His proposal wouldn’t necessarily be refused—appearances must be maintained—but that doesn’t mean the Lucky Charms aren’t sabotaged in some way and don’t work correctly, and everyone starts blaming the fact that kids are trying to mass produce something on their own and they don’t have the time or resources to keep up with demand, and things start to backfire, and they become Bad Luck Charms instead, essentially, or at least that’s what they become when Hawk Moth akumatizes someone who can make them into that, giving everyone who holds one terrible luck—whether targeted or by turning all luck on its head, superstitions included, which would make the bracelet Marinette gave Adrien bad luck, too, for the time being—and using that to manipulate the situation into getting what they want. Or at least trying to. (Of course, if it isn’t a targeted thing, if superstitions are flipped, too, then Hawk Moth didn’t think it through, because Adrien’s Chat Noir.) But you get the idea. *grins* Thanks!

(see more like this)

[goldenkamuyhunting]

Golden Kamuy re-reading: CHAP 6: ‘Persecution’

Trasposed in: Episode 2 ‘Nopperabō’

Currently the story is at: Chap 171: ‘Karafuto Ainu punishment’ (scanlated), Chap 172: ‘On the banks of Lake Akan’ (raw)

What follows are my ramblings over Golden Kamuy chapter by chapter, comprehensive of summary of the chapter, comparisons with the anime transposition, spoilers, theories, discussions about how a page or a panel was drawn and whatever else caught my attention.

As Golden Kamuy hasn’t ended yet I might miss some details that will be relevant in the future or make a wrong theory (or change my mind in the future on that theory). Consider yourself warned.

Also occasionally you’ll find ramblings for the covers or the extra contained in the volumes.

CHAP 6: ‘Persecution’

We start a new chapter with Asirpa teaching Sugimoto how to capture hares… only to see that the hare they plan to catch was a human sized hare, Shiraishi.

I guess the idea is that this image works aslo as a cover for this chapter.

Anyway, basically, like the squirrel traps used in the previous chapter, the hare traps had been used to catch another escape convicted. Again I wonder if Sugimoto and Asirpa realized they could have killed Shiraishi instead than just catch him alive with a trap that basically was a rope that wrapped around his neck and pulled him up… but well, let’s let this slide.

The anime cuts the explanation about the hares, evidently thinking that it’s unnecessary and that readers can assume Shiraishi too was caught with a squirrel trap. They’re the same type of trap so it can work. There’s to say that this new chapter is also included in the second episode of the anime instead than standing alone in its own episode but the transition between the end of the previous scene (the 7th finding Ogata) and Shiraishi being captured is a bit abrupt…

Also the rope seems to be really tight around Shiraishi’s neck so really, it’s a wonder he didn’t have his windpipe crushed and died of suffocation.

Sugimoto labels Shiraishi prisoner number 2, as if to lull us into the idea he won’t be any different from prisoner number 1… except that… well… maybe... hopefully there won’t be Ogata around to kill him.

Or not.

Although Sugimoto had agreed to spare the prisoners he clearly finds things more comfortable when convicts ends up dead not because he enjoys killing but likely because he seems to think that convicts=bloodthirsty criminals=threats to his survival... and we know Sugimoto thinks that in order to survive he has to be the first to kill his opponent...

Besides, when he’ll expose his plan on what to do with the one he planned to keep them alive we’ll realize it’s... well, rather unpractical so…

Anyway Shiraishi ends up tied as well, with Asirpa drawing down his tattoo on some paper. Shiraishi though refuses to say a single word in answer to Sugimoto’s questions to the point Sugimoto wonders if the trap crushed Shiraishi’s windpipe, rendering him unable to speak.

It’s something that worries me because it means they were aware of this risk... and what makes it worse is that Sugimoto doesn’t really seem genuinely sorry… and while this could also be explained by how Shiraishi has no visible sign around his neck that would point out to a severe damage… (though, he probably should have some sign) Sugimoto so far isn’t being very sympathetic with the Abashiri convicts. As said before he’s likely assuming if they ended up in Abashiri they were all criminals but well, news flash Sugimoto, people who ended up unfairly convicted existed even in your time and actually if we’re to believe in his words, Wilk is innocent.

Long story short Sugimoto thinks that just by overpowering the convicts and, if necessary, threatening them, they all will obediently cooperate... and honestly, I think this modus operandi would have been a completely failure with many of them (discounting the fact it would be pretty hard for him to overpower some of them).

Okay, I still understand why Sugimoto feels like being unfriendly with those people but well, considering Sugimoto’s attitude and the situation, it’s not really surprising Shiraishi doesn’t feel like making friends with him and chat.

We’ll learn later on that, although Shiraishi is a pitiful fighter and one who wants to get himself in risky situation, he’s not one who let himself be intimidated so, really, Sugimoto’s idea of forcing him to give him info just because he has him tied down is really bad.

Shiraishi though finally decides to answer back to Sugimoto… but it’s to tell him he sees Sugimoto has his own pet Ainu and then he asks him if she can do any tricks.

A break here. Shiraishi’s words are more rude than they can look in Japanese as it seems Ainu (アイヌ) were discriminated also by calling them ‘dogs’ due to the following wordplay アッ、イヌ (“ah, inu” meaning “ah, a dog”). Hence even if it seems Shiraishi called Asirpa ‘Kaiinu’ (飼い犬 “Pet dog”) the reference to the above wordplay is evident and also explains why Asirpa will claim she’s used to this. Calling Ainu ‘dogs’ was a popular, degrading insult.

It’s hard to say what Shiraishi was thinking at the moment.

This is the only time we see Shiraishi insulting Asirpa due to her being an Ainu or making funs of Ainu in general (though in chap 47 he expected Kiro would be willing to trade huchen with candies... and while I don’t know the value of both at the time I get the feeling huchens are worth more than some candies...) so it’s possible that his rude words were merely due to the situation he was in, and not really aimed at offending Asirpa… in fact he spoke to Sugimoto and, although he does so by demeaning Asirpa, the words suggest distaste for Sugimoto who has her as his own ‘Ainu pet’. It’s not so weird that Shiraishi might assume Asirpa is Sugimoto’s possession or something like that, we saw a man previously, in chap 3, planning to sell Asirpa off, which hints at how this sort of things could happen.

Shiraishi, although always being interested in women, never expresses physical interest in Asirpa whom he sees as a child, so it can be he was just disgusted and aiming to offend only Sugimoto, though since Sugimoto is not even remotely seeing Asirpa in that way and the mere assumption Asirpa could be someone’s pet is offensive, it makes sense both Asirpa and Sugimoto would perceive it as offensive to Asirpa, not to Sugimoto.

Sugimoto in fact react violently, threatening Shiraishi to smash his jaw… which again isn’t the best thing to clear up things on how they don’t mean to kill him, or persuade Shiraishi talk… but well express how protective of Asirpa Sugimoto is slowly becoming.

Now... in chap 169 we’ll see Koito being offensive in regard to Ogata and some had wondered why Sugimoto didn’t react with the same intensity (though he claimed to find it a stupid joke)…

...but well, it makes sense he didn’t, as he’s not friend with Ogata, actually he’s murderously furious at him for killing Asirpa’s father, shooting at him and stealing Asirpa, never mentioning Koito is currently Sugimoto’s ally, not a random convict he just met. So really, I think what’s really meaningful here is that despite wishing to murder Ogata he still disliked people making such jokes, not that he didn’t feel like reacting like he did with Asirpa.

On another note I think it’s important for Sugimoto’s future development he’d heard Ogata too was subjected to have people speaking ill of him for things that weren’t his fault, especially if those people were people from the 7th, which Sugimoto blames Ogata for leaving without even knowing why Ogata did it (honestly Sugimoto, I don’t know if you would feel prone to be faithful to a bunch of guys who give you that sort of nickname as it’s clearly a nick which doesn’t inspire love toward the people who forced it on you…)

Back with the story Asirpa has to act as the mature person and tell Sugimoto to stop and… well, that she doesn’t mind it as she’s used to people saying things like that about her.

It hurts to see her doing this because she’s young and such words were cruel and yet… she heard them so many times she’s not reacting, she’s not even finding worth reacting to them. While her expression wasn’t pleased when Shiraishi said so, she’s not really flinching or cringing much… and she even ends up in the position of having to protect Shiraishi, who said such words, from Sugimoto.

Honestly, I think Shiraishi’s words had hurt her and her reaction or lack thereof is merely a psychological defence to deny such hurt.

Anyway Sugimoto at this point won’t say anything, he won’t even comfort her or voice his own thoughts which are absolutely sympathetic as he thinks Asirpa shouldn’t have gotten used to it which is a pity because Asirpa isn’t a mind reader so, if on the inside Asirpa is hurt and she’s just not showing, Sugimoto’s silence isn’t comforting her.

Meanwhile, as Sugimoto thinks Asirpa shouldn’t have gotten used to this sort of comments, Sugimoto’s face darkens, a visual clue he’s having dark thoughts/feelings and, then we immediately find out why Sugimoto reacted that way, why he can empathize so easily with Asirpa as a flashback starts and it explains that Sugimoto’s reaction is due to how he thinks he can relate, because he feels he’d been victim of something similar.

In the flashback we see a younger Sugimoto, one who is an adult but still didn’t have the scars on his face. Back then he was still living in his house, in his village. We learn that, when his family members got sick with consumption, he and his family started being discriminated by the other villagers in fear they would be infected as well.

People didn’t want to get close to him, they would held their breath and run as fast as they could if they were to pass in front of his house and suggest to burn it down.

Sugimoto likely sees this situation as similar to what Asirpa was going through as in that period he too was being discriminated, but while in his case discrimination was moved by fear of being infected, which would mean also fear to die, in Asirpa’s (and Ogata’s) case it’s just cruelty that moves people. Once fear of being infected would die down, people would stop discriminating Sugimoto… but cruelty instead is unlikely to end. Asirpa can’t stop being an Ainu (nor Ogata can stop being his mother’s son)… and, while Sugimoto’s situation is still horrible and cruel (he’s losing family members to an illness and fearing to be ill as well and instead than support he gets discrimination) it didn’t start when he had birth. Sugimoto had all the time to live in a normal environment, to be considered a normal person before fear of the sickness his family got turned tables on him.

What Sugimoto went through is a different kind of pain, one you feel when people abruptly and for no reasons start being horrible to you and you can realize the unfairness of it... but one which you can hope will end then the situation will revert back to normal.

On the other side Asirpa (and all the Ainu people in general) likely spent her whole life being considered in such way by not-Ainu with little or no hope things would change with just time. It’s no surprise people like Kiro feel they’ve to become rebels, terrorists, to force people to change and be acknowledged as normal human beings with equal rights.

So yes, Asirpa and Sugimoto’s situations are similar but nowhere near as equivalent… and no, this isn’t meant to say that one of them had it worse than the other. They simply had it DIFFERENTLY BAD.

Why is it relevant?

Sugimoto equates his experience with Asirpa’s, empathizing with her because he thinks they’re similar… but they’re actually not. So far the story hadn’t really addressed it and maybe it never will but this might cause Sugimoto to end up being ‘blind’ to Asirpa’s point of view because he could mistakenly think it should be as his own... which is a mistake Sugimoto, here and there, does in completely good faith.

But let’s dig into Sugimoto’s past more.

In the flashback we see Sugimoto actually had an ally in his village, Umeko, Toraji’s future wife. The fact she’s told she needs to give up on Saichi (if you’ve forgotten about it, Saichi is Sugimoto’s name), hints at Umeko’s feelings for him at how she’s not turning her back to him due to his family situation. We see her looking longingly at him while he’s standing inside his house. She also looks pained. She is suffering for him, for that situation.

While Sugimoto’s gaze as he looks at her seems emotionless (but he’s very, very likely just suppressing his feelings), she’s openly showing her own pain.

When Sugimoto’s house will start to burn during that night, she’ll run to check if Sugimoto was safe and, meeting him, she’ll express worry he might think one of the villagers might have done it.

It’s actually hard to say from a translation… but I think Umeko was hoping Sugimoto weren’t suspecting the villagers because it would only pain him further to think one of them could have burned his house.

Anyway the truth comes out.

It was no one else but Sugimoto the one who burned the house. Since he got a message saying his father died and there’s no one else, apart from him, who could call that house ‘home’ he burned it and decided to leave the village.

Now... I think the idea is that when his father got sick he was carried to a hospital or a sanatorium or something like that and died there but it’s actually not really clear.

Anyway look at Sugimoto’s gaze as he says so. It’s not as dark as it gets now but it has already that dark undertone.

Probably a part of the darkness inside Sugimoto’s heart had birth in that moment in which he felt he had to personally destroy his home, his place to return as he had no more a family, he felt he couldn’t stay with Umeko in fear of being sick and contagious and... was aware of how everyone else discriminated him.

In his own words there was nobody left to call that place home, which implies not even HIM would call it as such.

Now… it’ll be rather interesting how Golden Kamuy will, in the future, address the next part.

At the present we know that Sugimoto is a nice guy… and what he’ll do next will seem to confirm it… as it’s something nice guys do a lot of time in tales.

In fact Sugimoto will tell Umeko that she should marry Toraji, who loves her and would take care of her as her parents would like for her to do. When Umeko, crying, instead asks him to take her with him, he refuses, telling her to stay away because he might be sick as well, and how he doesn’t want to kill her. Then Sugimoto runs away, leaving Umeko behind.

We see that he actually thinks to stay away first one, then, he decides on two years, to see if he would grow sick and that he thinks if he doesn’t he could come back and then…

Even though he doesn’t say so it’s clear he wanted to come back for Umeko as he clearly hoped Umeko would have waited for him instead than marrying Toraji as he told her to do but… but when Sugimoto finally comes back Umeko is just marrying Toraji and Sugimoto can only watch the procession, smiling.

Now… on a superficial observer it can seem Sugimoto did the noble thing. Undoubtedly Sugimoto meant well, he loved Umeko and will never stop to love her and he wanted to protect her… but at the same time he didn’t consider Umeko at all.

He told Umeko what she should do (marry Toraji even though Umeko had feelings for him just because Toraji loved her and he trusted Toraji to take care of her). When Umeko made clear she preferred to come with him, he totally rejected her proposition and left her behind without explaining her anything…as he’ll try to do with Asirpa in chap 14.

While Sugimoto is prioritizing Umeko’s safety, while Sugimoto is trying not to keep Umeko tied to him in fear he won’t manage to come back... at the same time he’s disregarding her as a person capable of taking adult decisions and as a partner. He’s deciding for her, he’s not trusting her to be capable to chose on her own, to face the situation on her own, to even find a way to stay close to him that wouldn’t endanger her. He decided for her and forced his decision on her by escaping without even giving her an explanation beyond that he was worried to infect her.

He decided for her, he disregarded her decisions, her feelings but he still hoped she would wait for him… EVEN IF HE DIDN’T DARE TO TELL HER HE PLANNED TO COME BACK FOR HER IF HE WERE TO SURVIVE. He didn’t ask her to wait for him. For all she knows he might not meant to return even if he weren’t to get sick. She might have feared what he went through due to the villagers might have pushed him to want to stay away from the village and her as well forever.

Sugimoto is a nice guy, but, in his wish to be nice with the others, to take care of them, without realizing it he ends up forgetting they’re their own people.

He’s not trying to be mean to Umeko, he TRULY, GENUINELY only wants to protect her, leaving her should be EXTREMELY painful for him, he probably didn’t ask her to wait for him because, if he were to die, he didn’t want Umeko to wait for him when he wouldn’t be able to turn back but… but in doing so he’s not keeping the person that Umeko is in consideration.

Truth to be told, at those times it was very, very, unlikely that someone would keep a woman’s opinion into consideration. Sugimoto’s belief that he knows better than Umeko, that he doesn’t truly have to explain himself to Umeko, that he doesn’t have to discuss things with her, that the most she could do is wait for him, fits perfectly how the relationship male/female were at time… so it’s extremely amazing to see how Asirpa, the new kind of Ainu woman for a new age, will be the one to try to stuck in his head how wrong he was in trying to leave her behind for her own safety without even asking her about her opinion on that topic (see chap 20 ).

I don’t know if Sugimoto can draw the parallel between Asirpa and Umeko, how he tried to leave both for their own good and how Asirpa told him how wrong his idea was, but I think it’s sort of amazing such thoughts were put into the story as, as said before, many tales would just support Sugimoto and disregard the feelings of the person who’s left behind. I also think this too will be very important for Sugimoto’s future development.

Even though Sugimoto and Asirpa are supposedly partners, we’ll see their relationship change and evolve. While Sugimoto will grow to be further and further protective of Asirpa, he won’t try to leave her anymore and he’ll slowly learn to trust her more and more.

We know Sugimoto plans to return to Umeko. If the idea is that they’ll have to elope, I like to think that the Sugimoto who’ll return to Umeko (or to whatever person he’ll pair up with if it won’t be Umeko) will finally be a man who can see his loved one as an equal partner, thanks to Asirpa’s teaching.

And now let’s go back to the story.

As said before Umeko apparently didn’t wait Sugimoto but married Toraji. Truth to be told, as Sugimoto is back likely after two years if not more, Umeko has waited… even though she actually had no reason to. Sugimoto has fundamentally dumped her, leaving her with no obligation to wait for him.

Still Umeko in the end decided that Toraji, the man who refused to give up on her, the man who would fight Sugimoto even if he knew he couldn’t win him, was worth her love and loyalty. We don’t know what exactly happened between the two of them, maybe Umeko’s feelings for him evolved or maybe she never loved him like she did with Sugimoto but still managed to love him enough to want to marry him but we’ll see that, even when Sugimoto will be back, Umeko will stick to her decision to be with Toraji.

Umeko is a woman with a strong character, like Asirpa. If Sugimoto had taken her with him or had worked together a decision with her, she would have stuck by it. Abandoned by Sugimoto, she didn’t pine on him like Ogata’s mother did, but managed to find the strength to react and find another person worthy of her and her love… and after Toraji’s death and Sugimoto’s… disappearance, she’s still doing her best to take care of her own child.

Umeko is a very, very minor character of Golden Kamuy so far, so minor the anime cut out most of her already small role, but she’s still a cool woman.

Sugimoto shows he’s kind by accepting her decision. He won’t show up to disrupt her marriage, he’ll smile as he sees the procession. He’s again choosing for Umeko (and Toraji as, at this point, he’s also involved in the equation) but he’s again meaning well and, like previously, his choice is a painful one. He’s smiling, we’ll see he’ll keep on smiling when Toraji will face him, but he’s probably suffering A LOT on the inside. He’ll never stop loving Umeko… and maybe in his decision not to show up and meet her and Toraji, there’s also the wish to protect not only the two of them, which are the people he cares for the most, but himself as well.

In those two years he probably lived with the hope to come back home and find Umeko waiting for him… and instead he comes back home to find he just lost her. Maybe, as he’s smiling and forcing himself to accept he lost her, he’s at the same time wondering if, had he come back maybe only a day earlier, this would have been enough to make things different… this would have been enough to make Umeko chose him over Toraji...

What ifs are the worst form of torture but, even if Sugimoto weren’t indulging in them, this should still be VERY painful.

It’s interesting how Golden Kamuy is also a collection of characters who has no home or can’t go back home anymore. Home, the safe place that would heal the wounds in their souls, is also a place they can’t return to. They long for it yet they can’t go back.

Tanigaki will be the first to voice this clearly, but it’s definitely a common problem. Sugimoto, Ogata, Nikaido, Tsukishima, Kiroranke and, later, Asirpa as well, they all can’t, for a reason or another, go back home… and end up wandering. I think it would be great if, at the end of the story, they were to manage to go back home… or find a new place to call home.

And now there’s something that’s rather sad to mention and this is that THE ANIME WILL COMPLETELY CUT ALL THE FLASHBACK, basically stripping the story of an important part of Sugimoto’s past which also explained his motivations for searching the gold and why he felt so empathic toward Asirpa.

This is really a bad cut in my humble opinion.

Back to the manga the scene is interrupted by Asirpa calling Sugimoto because there’s a hare and it’s sort of interesting how the visual creates a parallel between that past Sugimoto and the current one...

...in more ways than one as while the Sugimoto of the past was alone, the Sugimoto of the present as Asirpa next to him... and while Asirpa takes a small part in the picture, as if to hint as of now she’s not that important for Sugimoto, she’s there and we know she’ll grow to become VERY important to him.

But let’s go back to the story.

Now… leaving Shiraishi unguarded in order to catch a hare isn’t the best idea, especially if one consider what had happened to their previous prisoner. Other people from the 7th might be out there searching for tattooed convicts... so actually I don’t even know why they’re interrogating him out there in the open. A more secluded place would have worked better.

The Watsonian explanation is that Asirpa and Sugimoto are actually very concerned about their food (especially Asirpa who’s a glutton for it) but it’s still a bit weak. The Doylist one is, of course, that they need to leave Shiraishi alone for the plot to move.

Anyway Sugimoto tries to point his rifle at the hare but admits he can’t get a clear shoot at it so he prefers not to shoot in order not to only end up on injuring it. Asirpa, who’s already drooling at the thought of eating the hare, tells him to toss a wand over the hare’s head so the hare, thinking he’s being attacked, will bury his head in the snow and will be unable to move. Sugimoto complains he’ll feel bad for scaring the hare.

Again we’re presented with the contrast between Asirpa and Sugimoto. Sugimoto, who could kill people in such a terrible way, would feel bad for scaring a hare he plans to eat anyway. Asirpa instead, who’s strongly against killing people, doesn’t even remotely cares about scaring the hare. For her the hare is just food, not something she could get an empathic connection with.

Most of the explanation on how to catch the hare is also cut in the anime, so we just see Asirpa jumping on the hare while a wand was flying toward it and, since we weren’t explained what the wand was for, we might even think they had tried to hit the hare with it and missed. That’s not so great.

While they’re busy with the hare, Shiraishi shows us how he gained his nickname of ‘escape king’. He actually had hidden in his mouth a razor blade which he’s using to free himself from his current predicament, but we’re shown also how he has others means to escape from the various prisons in which he’d been trapped.

In fact, as soon as Asirpa catches the hare, she realizes Shiraishi is already running away. Sugimoto runs after him, telling Asirpa to go back to the hut.

Asirpa tries to warn him he shouldn’t chase Shiraishi too far because the weather is going to change, but it’s not rare for Sugimoto to not pay attention to her warnings, thinking he knows how to handle things as he’s the adult between the two as well as a man and a veteran.

Too bad for him she’s the Hokkaido expert and the one who knows how things work there.

The anime adds a scene of Asirpa disappointed by this development because she wanted to eat the hare.

Back to the manga Sugimoto reaches Shiraishi and points his rifle at him, telling him if he won’t go back he’ll shoot him. Shiraishi tells him to shoot him as for Shiraishi it won’t change a thing if Sugimoto shoots him now or later. The problem here is that Shiraishi believed Sugimoto and Asirpa wanted to kill him and Sugimoto’s previous behaviour as well as his present one had done nothing to change his mind.

Do you see now Sugimoto why it’s not a good policy to scare people off? You didn’t mean bad but you got the opposite result to the one you were hoping for.

In that moment they hear a weird sound that Sugimoto exchanges for gunfire. Asirpa instead knows the cause of that sound is how the temperature is dropping abruptly, causing trees to split, but she’s not with Sugimoto and so she can’t tell him what’s causing that sound.

At the same time Sugimoto is still chasing Shiraishi but, as they were standing on a snow cornice, this one breaks down making them fall.

The chapter ends here the anime following it faithfully enough.

It’s sort of amazing how from such a poor first meeting the friendship between Shiraishi and Sugimoto will slowly develop and grow and, in a way, it’s also a clear hint to how Sugimoto’s threatening techniques don’t lead him anywhere. We saw here he didn’t get anything from Shiraishi, not even the smallest thing. When, in the next chapter, he’ll instead stick a truce with him, Shiraishi will be more than willing to answer to all his questions on his own.

Sugimoto will remain fond of threatening people... but I wonder if in the future this will be addressed as not the smart thing to do in order to get along with them. Oh well, we can only wait and see.

[calzona-ga]

"I can't believe that this little show that we wrote and thought was a lot of fun in the beginning has turned out to be this thing that has really taught people," creator Rhimes says of her medical drama, which brought Meredith and McDreamy to life (and "vajayjay" into the vernacular), as she and partner Betsy Beers reveal their favorites and frustrations over 14 seasons.

When Grey's Anatomy premiered in March 2005, Shonda Rhimes was a newbie writer, Netflix was a DVD-by-mail delivery service and ABC was in the midst of a reinvention with Desperate Housewives and Lost. Now, 14 seasons later, Rhimes, 47, has built an empire that includes an estimated $100 million deal to create originals for Netflix and a full night of programming — ABC's Thank God It's Thursday — with a second Grey's spinoff (the first, Private Practice, lasted six seasons) coming in 2018. "Shonda and the team have done a fantastic job of keeping the storylines and the characters fresh by replenishing the cast over the years," says ABC Studios president Patrick Moran. The pop culture juggernaut and worldwide phenomenon (it airs in 220 territories) is ABC's No. 2 drama (behind only freshman breakout The Good Doctor), with 11.7 million total viewers and a 3.2 rating among adults 18-to-49 — not too shabby for a show about to see its 300th episode (airing Nov. 9). "Mothers who were pregnant during season one are now watching the show with their daughters," says ABC Entertainment president Channing Dungey of the new audiences discovering Grey's on Netflix. To celebrate their milestone, Rhimes and longtime producing partner Betsy Beers, 59, spoke with THR in their cozy Shondaland offices at Sunset Gower Studios about how far the show has come, the road ahead, characters they'd like to revive (literally) and — why not? — shoes.

If you could go back in time knowing what you know now, what would you each do differently? RHIMES I probably would have had better contracts to start with. The show has made $2 billion or so, and these are not $2 billion shoes. BEERS If we had known this was going to happen, we might have been more aggressive initially in our approach. RHIMES We'd both be laying on a beach in Zanzibar somewhere. No, we'd probably still be working, that's the problem. Every choice we've made, it's why the show works the way it does. Every time the interns were learning, we were learning. BEERS We've both grown up; Shonda has written books about her changes. We really matured into our jobs. RHIMES And have become more confident.

Several actors have come and gone over the years, from Patrick Dempsey to Sara Ramirez. If you could bring someone back, who would you want to have another chance to write for? RHIMES I'm always going to say Sandra Oh [Cristina] because for me, she's the most fun to write for. But if Kyle Chandler [who guest-starred as a bomb squad leader] showed up unexploded, I'd enjoy writing for him. BEERS Denny [a patient who died, played by Jeffrey Dean Morgan].

You get a lot of feedback from fans about how medical storylines have helped them diagnose themselves or a family member. What stands out? RHIMES What is significant is how many there are. I can't believe that this little show that we wrote and thought was a lot of fun in the beginning has turned out to be this thing that has really taught people. And the number of people who have gone to medical school because they want to be like those doctors is also incredible. BEERS Somebody we knew realized they had breast cancer from watching LaTanya Richardson's storyline [as a woman with breast cancer]. The one that sticks out to me was, many years ago a kid in Canada saved his parent by doing CPR because he'd seen it on Grey's.

What's the most interesting note you've received from Standards and Practices over the years? RHIMES Over the course of this many seasons, what you start to understand is that it's not necessarily about what has happened before; it's about what the climate is politically, because things roll forward and roll back and roll forward again, and that's always surprising. As often as we said "vagina" on the show, to suddenly be told, "I don't know if you can say 'vagina' this time" is hilarious, but also frustrating.

Is that where the term "vajayjay" came from? RHIMES Years ago, yes. I used that because it was Bailey [Chandra Wilson] in a personal situation. My standard is always: These are medical people trained to be doctors; they are not going to use some weird name for body parts. It's terrible to teach women that they should use weird names for their body parts. But it was funny and worked in that moment.

Grey's was poised to tackle abortion in season two with Oh's character, who wound up having an ectopic pregnancy instead. Was that network pushback? RHIMES I had been planning for Cristina to have an abortion, and nobody said we couldn't do it. They were like, "It just is not done very often and it sometimes causes a lot of controversy." We hadn't been on the air long, and I wasn't brave enough to just say, "Screw it, we're doing it." I held back. I remember Sandra being like, "Come on!" Years later when we did it [with Oh in season eight], I got more pushback about that than I did when we were going to do it the first time.

Do you regret not going through with that in season two? RHIMES No. We didn't know the characters well enough. What I have come to understand and love about our show is, the more you get to know those characters, the more powerful things are. When Cristina chose to have the abortion, she had a perfectly good guy beside her, a great career and she is a person who was very clear about the fact that she did not want to have children. There is something wrong with our society in that it does not support a woman's choice to not want to have children. On TV, that is never portrayed as: You're watching a woman whom you respect make a choice that feels like a really strong, powerful choice that a lot of women make, and we pretend that nobody does. BEERS And that's an incredibly liberating moment.

Would you ever take on a timely issue, like the debate over universal health care? RHIMES We've done the "people who have no insurance and we're going to give them the surgery anyway" stories. I don't know what the universal health care story would be yet, so it would be about figuring out what that is. I don't ever approach anything from the issue first, so I can't tell you that I've thought about tackling universal health care. I'd have to have some great story I'd want to tell, and then universal health care would become part of the way to tell that story. BEERS Issues have emerged from the stories and the characters and the storylines. RHIMES It's the only way to tell stories.

What's the casting or pilot story that still stands out? RHIMES Isaiah Washington came in for the role of Derek Shepherd, and Patrick Dempsey was there. And then we had Sandra come in for the role of Bailey. I looked at her and thought she could be Cristina, and everyone was like, "What?! That's totally different from what we thought she was going to be like." Chandra Wilson came in, and she was not the Bailey we imagined, but the best Bailey ever. Jim Pickens was the only person who ever read for the Chief. There were a million guys who came in for George, but we just fell in love with T.R. Knight. Picking the actors was simple. BEERS In comparison to the way it is to cast a pilot now, where there are 4 billion TV shows and you're slaughtering people in the road to try to get to somebody … this was, in retrospect, a cakewalk.

How much input does Ellen Pompeo (Meredith Grey) have on the show? RHIMES Her opinion is very important. I have said to her that we're in this together, and that's important because it doesn't feel right that she be some sort of soldier on a field just taking orders. She also has some really beautiful, smart insights and some amazing character choices. When the character was steeped in grief [after the death of her husband Derek, played by Dempsey], we had some amazing conversations about what that would mean and where the character would go and how she would handle it.

Does Grey's Anatomy exist without Ellen? RHIMES Not as far as I'm concerned.

Have there been any talks about how much longer Ellen is interested in doing the show? RHIMES No comment.

As you've gone from intern to chief, what's your biggest change? RHIMES It's about having gone from being two kids in a candy store to being leaders. A lot of people think that they are leaders just because they have been placed in charge of something — and you're not. BEERS The learning process is sort of a baptism by fire, too, because you learn on the way. I hopefully have an easier time figuring out what's really a problem because everything seems to be the same when you start. The great thing about getting to be on a show this long and becoming a leader through it is it helps you prioritize, and that knowledge helps you enjoy the job a lot more. RHIMES You're less afraid to make decisions. It's easier to look at the landscape and pick out the mistakes. Before, everything looked the same and so you were terrified that you were going to step on a land mine before you knew it. I was always terrified that if I stopped working, none of this would work. I only started to think that maybe this would actually last in season seven or eight. You start to enjoy yourself and get comfortable and you're not afraid to make decisions, and if the decision is a bad one, then you're not afraid to take the heat.

Looking ahead, you're launching a firefighter spinoff come midseason on ABC as the flagship's second offshoot. Have you considered others over time? RHIMES We think about it a lot. There's always different spinoff ideas that come up all the time. It's too easy almost. BEERS If something is really interesting then immediately maybe that could be a spinoff.

Do you have a title yet for the firefighter spinoff? RHIMES I like to tell people that it's called Fire Place and say it really seriously and see their faces, because that's the worst title ever! BEERS The Fire Place. (Laughter.) We were saying that on set, and every 10 minutes it was just a different one: "Tonight on Feel the Burn!" (Laughter.)

What are some of the ideas you've discussed in the past? What made firefighters the right idea? RHIMES I'm not going to tell you because maybe one day we'll make them. The firefighter spinoff was interesting because that was an idea that wasn't an idea. The idea that we were going to put Jason George [who plays Dr. Ben Warren on the flagship] in it was not part of the idea. In a weird way, we kind of wrote the [season 13] finale as a firefighter thing — BEERS — without knowing that we were doing it … RHIMES … because we weren't doing a firefighter spinoff. We talked about firefighters being really cool and everybody was obsessed with them, so we were like, "Let's do a big, giant fire!" But it wasn't anything until after, when we were like, "We really have to have a spinoff topic." Then [Grey's writer-EP] Stacy McKee pitched this beautiful thing. BEERS It was super organic. We just reverse engineered something that was already there.

Is the larger goal to build a world similar to what Dick Wolf has done with NBC's Chicago franchise, where all the shows are connected? BEERS The primary determinant continues to be if we really want to watch it and we really want to see it and we really want to work on it, then we do it. RHIMES Because that ends up being what's good. I'm flummoxed by Dick Wolf. While I'll watch Law & Order until the cows come home, when [Grey's] was first on the air, it would never occur to me to go, "Let's franchise this; let's make Grey's Anatomy: Chicago," or whatever those people do. BEERS Very early on, somebody had said we should do that. RHIMES We didn't even know what that meant. It was like, "So there's just another Meredith?" BEERS Should we call her Meredith? She's in another city; she'd be called Meredith Flay? (Laughter.) RHIMES Flay's Anatomy?! That's super weird. So no, I don't think that's ever occurred to us in that way. BEERS We're excited about this because I want to see something that is fun to do, to work in a different space that we've never been in before. We have a stage that you burn stuff on. It's insane. RHIMES It pretty much goes with [the thinking of], wouldn't it be really cool to have an Oval Office? Wouldn't it be cool to have an OR?

Krista Vernoff returned as co-showrunner this season. Why is it important to bring her back? RHIMES The only way I was going to be able to allow myself to step back a bit was to have somebody there whom I knew had this. Krista understands my sense of humor, and she can write. She is just as passionate about the show now as she was in year one. I needed somebody that I knew would care that much, and that is not an easy thing to find, especially when you're saying, "I'm going to hand off my baby to somebody to look after." I have never been able to hand it off before, so I wouldn't be able to hand it off if I didn't have somebody who was going to do a really great job.

Ben Sherwood recently said 2 million people per month watch the Grey's pilot on Netflix. How has new viewers finding the show helped Grey's sustain itself over the years? RHIMES The beauty of Netflix is it continues to make new audiences for us. Our fans can give birth to our fans. Grey's has this universal, global thing to it. It works all over the world. BEERS There is a timeless quality to the show. The stories are emotional, the medicine is always relevant. Nothing is outdated because it's all based in real emotions and caring about people.

How will the Netflix deal impact your involvement with Grey's and the spinoff going forward? RHIMES Pretty much be exactly what it is now since we are in the middle of the Netflix deal right now.

You wrote in your welcome essay on Shondaland.com, your media site, about "too much change" and ending Scandal when you wanted to. Have there been times when you've wanted to end Grey's? RHIMES Yes. Season two, season three, season four, season five … it was an exhausting show until I really got the hang of doing 22 to 24 episodes a season. I learned how to write TV by writing Grey's Anatomy. It was about getting the hang of being a leader, being a boss and then doing two shows at a time [with Private Practice], and then three shows at a time [with Scandal]. But it was more about, "Can I do this?" That's how I discovered the art of reinvention: I'd write a season ending and be like, "That's it, we're done." And then I'd have to come up with something else. That got really fun.

All three shows that you've created (Grey's, Private Practice and Scandal) have run for more than 100 episodes — you're the first female showrunner to accomplish that feat. Given the challenges with cutting through in an era of 500 shows, do you think there will be other showrunners with three 100-episode shows to come? RHIMES I have no idea. Honestly, you can look at network television and say that you can't quite tell what's coming. But I hope so.

Do you have an ultimate goal of what the end of Grey's Anatomy is? Is that something you think about? RHIMES No, not anymore. When we realized that Netflix was reinfusing the show with a whole new audience and that it didn't seem to be going anywhere — and the ratings were going up and not down — that's when I had to get really Zen with myself and say, "What do we want? How do I feel about this?" It's been maddening and amazing to discover that you can reinvent it every year and it still works. I heard [Disney-ABC Television Group president] Ben Sherwood said something about [Grey's running for 40 years like] General Hospital. That's not the plan. But the idea that we are going to go until it feels like we're done is great.

Will that decision ultimately be yours to make? RHIMES Yes. I don't know why the end of Grey's wouldn't be my decision. Who would close the chocolate factory but me?

[verdigrisprowl]

Jan 20 Bevel’s Movie Stream - Star Trek: Discovery Ep. 5 & 6

Prowl was about ready to give up on the series, but then the thoroughly dislikable people being documented in this series became about 1% more likable, so he’s giving it another week.

Bevel 7:30 pm *the usual set up, a few bedraggled couches and a table of snacks, nothing fancy but it'll do* ItsyBitsySpyers 7:32 pm *Soundwave was already out and about on errands today, so instead of bridging he'll just swing round and fly right up before unfolding and skidding to a halt at his couch. Hooray for buildings still under construction!* Ratchet 7:32 pm Thriller! *pops in and immediately starts dancing* ItsyBitsySpyers 7:33 pm *And then gracefully takes his seat like he didn't just risk crashing into the damn thing for the tiniest of inefficient thrills.* [[Bevel, Ratchet.]] Bevel 7:33 pm *grins* Ratchet 7:33 pm Evening. Bevel 7:34 pm I found more of the Starfleet stuff! FakeProwl 7:34 pm *arrives just in time to miss this act of reckless grace* Ratchet 7:34 pm Heya, Prowl! FakeProwl 7:34 pm Evening. Bevel 7:35 pm *small wave to Prowl* FakeProwl 7:36 pm *hesitates, then nods. would be rude not to acknowledge the host.* Bevel 7:36 pm *internal yay* Ratchet 7:37 pm *hovers a few moments to see where Prowl will sit* FakeProwl 7:39 pm *with soundwave, as usual* ItsyBitsySpyers 7:39 pm *Nods to Prowl.* FakeProwl 7:39 pm *nods back. hello.* Ratchet 7:40 pm *ah well. he'll sit with Bevel then* ItsyBitsySpyers 7:40 pm [[You do know he doesn't have the capacity to bite.]] *Taps his visor at Ratchet.* Bevel 7:41 pm *giggles* Ratchet 7:41 pm Cute. But I'm all right over here. Tarantulas 7:42 pm *stepping thru a portal, tarantulas almost says "false" to sw's claim, but stops himself just in time* Bevel 7:42 pm ((last song and then i'll start ItsyBitsySpyers 7:42 pm *BOI* Tarantulas 7:42 pm *he'll just stick with a snicker* FakeProwl 7:43 pm *had to fight the urge to say "i would know if he was." you're surrounded by reprobates, soundwave.* Tarantulas 7:43 pm *at least sw is the only telepath in here tho, be glad for that* ItsyBitsySpyers 7:44 pm *Primus below. How is he supposed to keep personal secrets with you lot around.* Ratchet 7:44 pm *it's fine, Ratchet is blissfully unaware* Ratchet 7:46 pm *let's keep it that way, shall we? the last thing he needs is _another_ reason to.... nnnnot lust after Soundwave. that one* *look he just doesn't need to know about any aspect of Soundwave that's attractive. cool? cool.* ItsyBitsySpyers 7:47 pm *Mmhm. Sure.* [[Ah! We return to the Starfleet timeline. Good.]] Tarantulas 7:47 pm *also thanks for the amenities bevel but tarantulas brought his own seat, he's currently busy slinging it from the ceiling* Bevel 7:48 pm *enjoy, there's plenty of ceiling to hang from* Tarantulas 7:49 pm *he's set up right behind and nearly on top of prowl and soundwave, hello there* ItsyBitsySpyers 7:50 pm *Soundwave raises a feeler to offer a greeting tap and/or a hold if Tarantulas wants thought contact.* Tarantulas 7:51 pm *paw-bump the feeler* ItsyBitsySpyers 7:51 pm [[And where do they plan to GET the other... tardigrades? That they found one was a fortunate accident.]] FakeProwl 7:51 pm ((SDLFIJLJ WHY)) Tarantulas 7:52 pm If I were younger and more naive, I'd say they should clone it. Bevel 7:52 pm ((oh snap, warnings, i forgot warnings FakeProwl 7:53 pm Hm. Finally. Someone who recognizes the possibility that blaming her for the war might NOT be justified. Bevel 7:53 pm ((mention of rape, torture, violence, blood, all that goes with the TV-MA warning FakeProwl 7:54 pm ((and things straight to the eyeball in closeup)) Bevel 7:54 pm ((yes i'm soooooooo sorry FakeProwl 7:54 pm ((im ok ill live)) Bevel 7:54 pm ((i legit forgot he did that, probably to protect my own dang self because augh ItsyBitsySpyers 7:56 pm *Stretch arm across couch and settle in. He is ready to find out what's going on with the second-in-command Klingon. What is her name... L'Rell? Yes. What is she doing while the Voq Klingon is away?* FakeProwl 7:56 pm *... Would that arm be across the couch in Prowl's direction?* Bevel 7:58 pm Aw, no. I hope they find out what is wrong with the tardigrade. Ratchet 7:59 pm [[ saru's ganglia squick me something fierce goddddd. why they gotta do that. ]] FakeProwl 7:59 pm *... Is Saru going to try to eliminate Michael. Please don't. He'd like them to get along.* ItsyBitsySpyers 8:00 pm *And yes it is.* FakeProwl 8:02 pm *WELL then. Sits up straight. That's a bit much for mixed company.* ItsyBitsySpyers 8:03 pm *Well. He's... sort of glad that part is over. Now that he's out of the war, he tends to avoid thinking about all the times similar actions were taken during its run. And thinks about other times. ... Never mind, there it is again.* *Tiny glance. Too much, he supposes. Pulls his arm back onto his lap.* Tarantulas 8:05 pm S-Stuart. Hyeh. ItsyBitsySpyers 8:06 pm [[Hm. The little creature reminds him of Zori.]] Tarantulas 8:07 pm *chinhands happily* Tarantulas 8:08 pm *agrees, this is definitely Fucking Cool* Bevel 8:08 pm *giggles* FakeProwl 8:09 pm *... no one in this show is likable.* Bevel 8:09 pm *hopes they find a workable solution* FakeProwl 8:09 pm *no one is likable and no one likes each other.* Bevel 8:09 pm ((fun fact, Klingons have two of everything ItsyBitsySpyers 8:10 pm ((*throws bricks*)) FakeProwl 8:11 pm *it even takes the joy out of the science.* Tarantulas 8:11 pm *science IS joy, shh* Bevel 8:13 pm 😔 FakeProwl 8:13 pm *not when every single person performing it is insufferable* ItsyBitsySpyers 8:14 pm *ALARM BLIP* Bevel 8:14 pm Hey! It was just a bug. It only did what it was told 😔 ItsyBitsySpyers 8:14 pm [[Will it be all right?]] Bevel 8:14 pm He said Lorca almost killed him. Maybe Stuart is ok then? ItsyBitsySpyers 8:15 pm *Has finished deciding that he does not like Lorca at all.* [[He hopes it is.]] Bevel 8:15 pm Ha. Tarantulas 8:16 pm *pings prowl a set of data that, if calculated, will predict if stuart died, and if not, how badly injured he'll be - all prowl need do is add his own numbers and calculate* Ratchet 8:16 pm I don't think the civilian is the spy. ItsyBitsySpyers 8:17 pm *Another alarm blip, quieter.* Tarantulas 8:17 pm You can't simply rehydrate the tardigrade, pft. See? Bevel 8:17 pm Good doctor trying to protect it. ItsyBitsySpyers 8:18 pm *They've almost killed a creature capable of calculations like those required for a space bridge. How displeasing.* ItsyBitsySpyers 8:19 pm [[Why don't you believe the civilian is the spy, if he may ask?]] FakeProwl 8:20 pm *... what, is this a simulation? based on what data?* Tarantulas 8:20 pm *guesstimates* *he has a lot of zori's data* *well, not a LOT but some* ItsyBitsySpyers 8:20 pm *More than most.* FakeProwl 8:21 pm *meh. plugs in a couple of numbers before he gets bored of it.* Ratchet 8:21 pm Seven months. ItsyBitsySpyers 8:22 pm [[What of it?]] Ratchet 8:22 pm The Captain thought it was a long time for someone to survive captivity. Tarantulas 8:22 pm *ur supposed to reassure sw, prowl, tarantulas was being strangely nice* ItsyBitsySpyers 8:23 pm [[The L'rell Klingon... favored him. She would not allow something she considers a preferred toy to perish.]] Tarantulas 8:24 pm Oh dear. ItsyBitsySpyers 8:24 pm [[Just as she did not want to let him leave.]] Ratchet 8:24 pm I continue to be suspicious. Bevel 8:25 pm ...oh no. ItsyBitsySpyers 8:25 pm *Scoots forward a little. Is that--?* Tarantulas 8:25 pm *snickers along with stamets' laughter* FakeProwl 8:29 pm *oh thank god, finally SOMEONE is getting along with each other.* Bevel 8:29 pm *hopes this works* ItsyBitsySpyers 8:30 pm [[...Good.]] FakeProwl 8:30 pm ((fire the tardigrade cannon)) ItsyBitsySpyers 8:30 pm ((LOL)) Tarantulas 8:30 pm Why did they - awh no. Ratchet 8:31 pm [[ oh no they're cute ]] FakeProwl 8:31 pm ((it's about damn time)) Bevel 8:31 pm ((dear doctor <3 FakeProwl 8:31 pm *oh look! two more people who like each other! FINALLY.* Tarantulas 8:31 pm (( fuckin cute ItsyBitsySpyers 8:32 pm [[...Is that - that is not normal for human mirrors. Is it?]] Ratchet 8:32 pm [[ why........ why did it end like that ]] Tarantulas 8:32 pm (( wait what happened at the end i missed it Ratchet 8:32 pm [[ i missed what happened but something was weird and now i;m concerned ]] ItsyBitsySpyers 8:32 pm ((he walked away. his reflection stayed in the mirror a little while before smiling and leaving)) Bevel 8:33 pm ((ok, warnings for... Vulcan mind melding to the extreme and that's the only thing I remember from this episode but keep in mind past warnings just in case ItsyBitsySpyers 8:34 pm *Lovely angular architecture on a hot desert-y planet. How wonderful, their planet.* Ratchet 8:34 pm [[ anyway i'm just saying, it's real convenient that there was one spy in that room and now someone from that room has accompanied captain lorca back to the ship with the new propulsion system ]] Bevel 8:35 pm Mirror do not act like that. Ever. They are just glass. ItsyBitsySpyers 8:36 pm *Back on a ship?*

[[Then that does not bode well.]] Ratchet 8:38 pm Hmm. Bevel 8:40 pm That was Michael's dad, right? ItsyBitsySpyers 8:40 pm [[The one who was not making a martyr of themselves.]] Bevel 8:40 pm Yeah. Tarantulas 8:40 pm Father? I assumed he was adoptive or something of the sort. FakeProwl 8:41 pm Well, we know he survived. Bevel 8:42 pm Yeah, Michael said foster parents. They are still parents. ...scuttlebutt FakeProwl 8:42 pm I knew a mech named Scuttlebutt. *he's wrong. the mech's name was Shuttlebay.* Bevel 8:42 pm *omg* ItsyBitsySpyers 8:43 pm [[...One hopes he kept his aft away from boats.]] *Oh. He knows this feeling.* ItsyBitsySpyers 8:46 pm @P: [[...Not unlike this when they died.]] *Tiny glance to see how he's doing with all this mental melding talk.* FakeProwl 8:46 pm @S «... Through the spark bond?» FakeProwl 8:48 pm *it's between people who get along with each other, not forced by a puppetmaster upon an unwilling puppet, and no mind-control is involved. he's fine.* Bevel 8:49 pm *Bevel would be glad if she knew* ItsyBitsySpyers 8:49 pm @P: [[Correct. Together with telepathy, in some cases.]] *Not the twins. And, good. Looks like no emergency avatar deactivations.* [[Ravage was - the worst. The others perished quicker.]] FakeProwl 8:50 pm *huh. the scientist has become more tolerable.* Bevel 8:50 pm *mimics the explosion sound* ItsyBitsySpyers 8:51 pm *Nods to Bevel. Approves.* Bevel 8:51 pm *grins at Soundwave* Tarantulas 8:52 pm *tarantulas makes a mental note to poke soundwave about how his telepathy works bc of this katra mess. he's not quite believing the science of it* ItsyBitsySpyers 8:52 pm *That'll be an interesting conversation.* Bevel 8:54 pm Why is genetic manipulation so bad in this universe? FakeProwl 8:55 pm Haven't they made allusions to some sort of war with genetically-manipulated humans? Or a rebellion or something? ItsyBitsySpyers 8:55 pm @P: [[...Your alternate signed off on Ravage's interrogation. He has always wondered if she knew what was happening.]] *Another small look. He's searching for - something. Confirmation? Denial? Who would be able to calculate the probability better than an alternate?* FakeProwl 8:58 pm *he doesn't pick up the implied question.* @S «... I see.» *but he does feel like he's supposed to say something.* «... I'm sorry. To hear that.» ItsyBitsySpyers 8:59 pm *Waits a moment to see if he will say anything else. But, that'll do for now. Apologies are better than nothing.* @P: [[Thank you.]]

*And broadcast more widely:* [[They have. There was a... where are his files on this. One moment.]] Bevel 9:00 pm Have they? *might have missed some things, or they might be in episodes she hasn't actually seen* Tarantulas 9:01 pm *tara's gonna conduct an experiment as they watch - down comes a thread to touch sw's shoulder* @SW: [[Push me a thought if you can hear this.]] Tarantulas 9:02 pm (( OH DAMN FakeProwl 9:03 pm *... all right, okay. NOW it's getting uncomfortable. what with the aggressive insistence that he let her into his mind.* *but it's over quickly.* Bevel 9:04 pm *oh wow a dad worse than hers, have all her sympathies, Michael* ItsyBitsySpyers 9:06 pm [[In other pieces. And Saru mentioned it.]]

[[The humans attempted genetic manipulation and upgrading a couple of hundred years before this time period.]] *Gesture to screen.* [[The humans produced used their new bodies and minds to seize power in many countries across the world. They were the cause of multiple extreme wars and eventually lost.]]

[[Some were finally captured and tried as war criminals. They disappeared before they could serve their sentences.]] [[...And it is satisfying to see his abilities used for good. For once.]] *Soundwave is intrigued by the thread - and what he heard through it. He winds the end around a finger and looks at it.* @T: [[Confirmed.]] Bevel 9:07 pm Oh! Then yeah, it really is. Stamets is being really helpful. Even with the mirror being weird. Bevel 9:09 pm *cheers Michael on* FakeProwl 9:10 pm Emotions are not Vulcan. But passive-aggression is. Tarantulas 9:10 pm *curious quirk of his visor. hmm* @SW [[Humor me - just a moment.]] *and the thread is withdrawn* ItsyBitsySpyers 9:10 pm *Finds it interesting that he acts different from the others yet chose - HUFF, Prowl, that was lovely - the "superior" partially Vulcan child over the fully human child.* *And that he did not know Spock well enough to predict Spock's actions.* *Lets the thread go and watches its slow retreat, curious.* Bevel 9:13 pm I really like Michael. Bevel 9:14 pm *somehow not surprised by this turn of events* ItsyBitsySpyers 9:15 pm *...Suspicious.* FakeProwl 9:15 pm He's quite pleased to leave her there, isn't he. Bevel 9:15 pm He just wants to keep his ship. ItsyBitsySpyers 9:16 pm *Oh good. It's not just him.* [[It seems so.]] FakeProwl 9:16 pm Selfish. Tarantulas 9:16 pm This message has been removed. FakeProwl 9:16 pm *all the same, he wants to know how he cheated his psych evals.* ItsyBitsySpyers 9:20 pm *Soundwave responds every time a thread still attached inside the generation point touches him. Not so much any held in a paw.* Bevel 9:20 pm ((i'm so sorry ((did not mean to do that, i click and highlight things i'm reading and did it by accident Tarantulas 9:21 pm (( oops lol ItsyBitsySpyers 9:21 pm *And cheating on tests seems to be a common problem in Starfleet commanders. Hmm.* *Can't decide if he approves or not.* Bevel 9:21 pm ((*buries face in hands* Tarantulas 9:21 pm (( puff did u happen to log my comment or should i rewrite jic? FakeProwl 9:22 pm ((i did not, on rabbit i don't log it til the end)) Tarantulas 9:22 pm (( o7 ...actually nvm, we all know what happened, tarantulas sent down different threads etc Bevel 9:23 pm ((all the threads Tarantulas 9:24 pm *curiouser and curiouser, sw. tarantulas notes the organic interference, then eventually pulls all the threads up and disposes of them* FakeProwl 9:24 pm *... bevel are you trying to get prowl's attention* Bevel 9:25 pm *...you can't prove anything* FakeProwl 9:25 pm *you're playing The Titanic Song* ItsyBitsySpyers 9:25 pm [[...This is a rearrangment of the Titanic music.]] *Pause.* [[He likes it better than the original.]] Bevel 9:25 pm Yeah, same. ItsyBitsySpyers 9:25 pm @T: (txt): Experiment successful? Bevel 9:25 pm *did it work?* ItsyBitsySpyers 9:26 pm [[It is not as wistful, but it sounds more - celebratory. That feels like a better ending.]] FakeProwl 9:27 pm The end of the Titanic wasn't celebratory. Bevel 9:27 pm The ahistorical ending? Tarantulas 9:27 pm @SW: ::Every experiment is successful if you come into it with an open mind.:: ItsyBitsySpyers 9:28 pm [[No, no. Celebrating her memories of when she was content with the Jack human.]] *Tilt. Tilt the other way.* [[Or believed she was. He still does not think it was a good relationship.]] FakeProwl 9:29 pm Oh, it was absolutely not. ItsyBitsySpyers 9:29 pm @T: (txt): New viewpoint heard, considered, appreciated.

*Hmm. Does Shockwave think like that?* ItsyBitsySpyers 9:30 pm [[Then this song following it was a good choice. Well done, Bevel.]] Bevel 9:30 pm *grins* Tarantulas 9:31 pm *shockwave would be a shitty scientist if he didn't, in tarantulas's opinion, therefore he must* FakeProwl 9:31 pm His death was the best thing that could have possibly happened to her. It allowed her to leave with the memory of the brief freedom she thinks she experienced and opportunity for liberation that that experience provided her, while saving her from the eventual and inevitable controlling, manipulative, and abusive behavior he would have strangled her with. Tarantulas 9:34 pm *hhhm. briefly tarantulas wonders if that's what prowl thinks of him in turn* ItsyBitsySpyers 9:35 pm [[...Like the timing he suggested with the Council. A similar concept.]] FakeProwl 9:36 pm ... Still on that? ItsyBitsySpyers 9:37 pm [[Not on that discussion specifically. He understood what you were going for.]] *No need to fret all over again.* [[But it is a thing he has often thought about over the years. Among other problems of timing.]] Bevel 9:37 pm Council? FakeProwl 9:38 pm *he reacted extremely strongly in the negative for someone who supposedly understood what he was going for* ItsyBitsySpyers 9:38 pm [[It just reminded him of that. Removing a controlling force and then disposing of the one that would turn corrupt.]] *Small shrug.* [[He thinks in terms he understands.]] ItsyBitsySpyers 9:39 pm *Perhaps, but he did demonstrate that he got it once he stopped focusing on the example itself.* ItsyBitsySpyers 9:41 pm [[He also wonders what would have happened if he himself took certain data to the Council instead of bringing it to Megatron, back when he had that moment of doubt. And whether he should have spilled certain secrets to save his life or died to keep them quiet.]] [[They're just moments that gnaw at him and give him frames for processing other contexts.]] Bevel 9:43 pm *didn't get an exact answer but she's read enough history to follow where Soundwave was coming from now* It is important to think about the things you did and think about how you could have done better so you can make better decisions, in the future, right? ItsyBitsySpyers 9:44 pm *Soundwave leans to one side to get a better look at her.*

[[Now where did you get a lesson like that...?]] Bevel 9:45 pm *looks away from Soundwave and at the ceiling for a moment* From talking to people. FakeProwl 9:46 pm *is people* Bevel 9:46 pm *indeed* ItsyBitsySpyers 9:46 pm [[He's a telepath, Bevel.]] Bevel 9:46 pm 😐 You are a polite one. ItsyBitsySpyers 9:47 pm [[True.]] *Leans back. Like he's gonna poke at her thoughts too much in front of Prowl.* [[But he IS curious, still.]] Tarantulas 9:48 pm *visor quirk, what the heck is this chattering about* ItsyBitsySpyers 9:48 pm *Some suggest asking when it comes to things you want to know. He's a big voice for that.* Bevel 9:51 pm I... *her armor and paint start to change subtly to match the couch she's sitting on, but she controls the urge and settles back smoothly into the frame she's been wearing all night* I have been thinking. About stuff. Important stuff. Not council important! But important to me. Tarantulas 9:51 pm *tarantulas is too stubborn to ask about things he'd rather pretend to know or to figure out himself, if you're referring to him, sw* ItsyBitsySpyers 9:55 pm [[Go on. Such as?]] *He was.* Bevel 9:55 pm Not now. *she has to talk to someone else first, else word get around somehow, she only trusts like one and a half of the bots still here* Tarantulas 9:57 pm *wait what the heck was that, bevel. weren't YOU the one who was saying mirrors don't behave like that? strange, when tarantulas just saw you behaving in a way wholly unlike a typical mech. no way was that a trick of the light* ItsyBitsySpyers 9:57 pm [[As you wish.]] Bevel 9:57 pm *grateful smile at Soundwave* Tarantulas 9:59 pm *tara's gonna keep that to himself for now. he's got enough to chew on from this evening as it is* Bevel 10:01 pm *gonna just.... go back to picking music clueless about what's going on with Tara* Tarantulas 10:06 pm ...Oh! Bevel 10:06 pm ? Tarantulas 10:08 pm Do forgive me for forgetting for so long. I owe each party in this room three cephalopod acquaintanceships, don't I? ItsyBitsySpyers 10:08 pm *SNAP ALERT AWAY FROM MUSIC congrats that was the impossible* [[Yes. You do. Does this mean...?]] Bevel 10:08 pm Yes! *sits up* Tarantulas 10:10 pm What this means is that I don't yet have the specimens, but I can acquire them, say... before we meet here next? FakeProwl 10:10 pm *turns slightly. go on, he's listening.* ItsyBitsySpyers 10:11 pm [[All of them?]] Tarantulas 10:13 pm Of course. *a bit affronted* Bevel 10:13 pm You have some time. It will be a little bit before I can get everyone here again. ItsyBitsySpyers 10:13 pm *No harm meant. He's just - quietly excited.* Tarantulas 10:15 pm If meeting here is the problem, we could all meet elsewhere. That is to say, you'll all be coming to my lab anyhow. FakeProwl 10:16 pm ((IS THAT FUCKING SAX FLAMETHROWING)) Tarantulas 10:17 pm (( oh my god FakeProwl 10:17 pm ((MAD MAX: POSTMODERN JUKEBOX)) I'll be able to come unless some emergency comes up that requires my attention. ((so that's why he's by the open window)) ItsyBitsySpyers 10:18 pm [[He will make the emergency wait for his attention to exist.]] Bevel 10:18 pm *giggles* ItsyBitsySpyers 10:19 pm [[Which is impossible. But that is how much he looks forward to this. If it wasn't yet clear.]] FakeProwl 10:19 pm Unfortunately, emergencies that require a police captain's attention frequently don't care what other people think. Even when cephalopods are involved. If I can't come, don't delay it on my behalf. Soundwave can record the event for me to watch later. Tarantulas 10:20 pm Nono, you /must/ come, really. Bevel 10:21 pm Yeah, we planned this with you, Prowl. ItsyBitsySpyers 10:21 pm [[Perhaps he can bribe all of Iacon into behaving for a single day...]] *That is a joke. Please do not arrest him for bribery.* FakeProwl 10:21 pm It's all right. I'm not planning to touch them, so it doesn't make a difference if I see them in person or via video. Bevel 10:21 pm That would be a lot of bribes. Tarantulas 10:22 pm You're coming. *stated definitively* ItsyBitsySpyers 10:22 pm [[Never underestimate his abilities, Bevel.]] FakeProwl 10:22 pm *honestly Prowl's pretty neutral on the whole thing. The only reason he asked to come was so that he could request another couple of creatures for Soundwave to see.* Bevel 10:22 pm Never. *laughs* FakeProwl 10:22 pm *but if Tarantulas seems determined that it won't happen until Prowl CAN come...* ... Very well. ItsyBitsySpyers 10:22 pm [[...They won't be exposed to the Noisemaze, correct?]] Bevel 10:23 pm Noisemaze? Tarantulas 10:24 pm Ah, no, of course not. They'll be directly bridged in. FakeProwl 10:24 pm *... is that alright to mention in front of Bevel? PROWL wouldn't have mentioned it in front of Bevel* ItsyBitsySpyers 10:24 pm *Prowl wouldn't be the one getting his aft beaten to within an inch of his life if Bevel went to the lab and was lured out there and hurt somehow.* *Soundwave would really like not to anger Ratchet like that. Tarantulas already tried to convince her to be a Science once.* Tarantulas 10:26 pm *he plans on convincing her to be a Science somehow through the cephaloparty as well, but sw need not know that* FakeProwl 10:26 pm ((*judges song intensely for changing the pronouns*)) ((make them lesbians you cowards.)) Tarantulas 10:26 pm (( make it GAAAAY Bevel 10:27 pm ((*same, hadn't heard this one yet* ItsyBitsySpyers 10:27 pm *Tarantulas better hope Soundwave doesn't find out* FakeProwl 10:27 pm ((the music video was about gay men. you can make the song about lesbians. it's okay.)) Bevel 10:27 pm ((just for this i'm gonna play a cover of rude after this that I know is gay af Tarantulas 10:28 pm *is ignoring bevel's question ftr* Bevel 10:28 pm *is ignored boo* *will just assume it's a maze. with noises* FakeProwl 10:30 pm ((a hedge maze and from the hedges comes the wild dooting of kazoos)) Tarantulas 10:30 pm (( a kazzorchestra Bevel 10:30 pm ((and now for something not post modern ItsyBitsySpyers 10:32 pm ((soundwave volunteers to hunt down the wild kazoo)) Tarantulas 10:35 pm *claw tap to mandibles* ...I haven't thought of what to do with them once we've wrapped things up, though. FakeProwl 10:35 pm ... Take them home, I'd assume. Bevel 10:35 pm Let them go? Tarantulas 10:35 pm *funny look as if that hadn't occurred to him* Well, maybe. Though they might not be safe to return. ItsyBitsySpyers 10:36 pm [[Why wouldn't they?]] Tarantulas 10:37 pm I'm trying to think of the logistics, hold on. ItsyBitsySpyers 10:37 pm *Growing vaguely alarmed. He does not want them to be made into a Science.* FakeProwl 10:37 pm Are you concerned they're going to share the awesome things they've learned about Cybertronian technology with their octopus militaries? Tarantulas 10:38 pm *SNORT* No, not in the least. FakeProwl 10:38 pm Then I don't see what the problem with taking them home is. Tarantulas 10:38 pm One does not simply take a cephalopod home, Prowl. FakeProwl 10:39 pm Why not? ItsyBitsySpyers 10:39 pm *Has a worse thought than Science.*

[[-No eating them.-]] Tarantulas 10:40 pm Hyah, nono, I'm not going to eat them. I'm not partial to seafood. Tarantulas 10:41 pm The matter of putting them back - much less taking them back - is that I can't just reverse the process, that's all. (( I LOVE THIS ONE FakeProwl 10:42 pm Why not? If anything, it should be EASIER to return them than to pick them up. Picking them up involves effort to figure out where they are so you can get them. Taking them back involves only taking them directly back to the very spot you took them from. Tarantulas 10:43 pm This message has been removed. I mean, I could do that I suppose, it'd just be a mess, and not worth the time. FakeProwl 10:44 pm So open the bridge horizontally, one inch over the ocean, and drop them in. Tarantulas 10:44 pm No - but - hyah. *starts laughing* Bevel 10:45 pm ((gd self stop clicking things ((*puts mouse in corner* FakeProwl 10:45 pm ((for the chat record, could we get a re-statement of the now-deleted quote)) Tarantulas 10:46 pm (( something something "unless someone has tech i don't have, i can't just open a hole in the ocean and stick them back in" Bevel 10:46 pm ((yes plz i'm so sorry there needs to be a way to undo that omfg ItsyBitsySpyers 10:48 pm [[Could you not build a container to hold all the water coming in as you replace the creature, then bridge all that water back over the ocean?]] FakeProwl 10:53 pm ... What's wrong with the bridge one inch over the ocean? *all he got was a no and a laugh.* ItsyBitsySpyers 10:59 pm [[Oh, yes. From what he understands, not all life in the Earth's ocean can sustain itself at the same level because of the pressure, lighting, and fuel available to them at different depths. If some of these creatures live lower down, we may well be condemning them to death by dropping them in at the top.]]

*...What? Anglerfish and their horrible fangy deep sea brethren with their own biolights fascinated him just as much.*

*At least you know he values -some- organic life forms, Prowl.* Tarantulas 11:00 pm *finishes laughing with a huff* I just adjusted my capture plans. I'll be able to put them back. ItsyBitsySpyers 11:01 pm [[Are you sure? How?]] FakeProwl 11:01 pm So put them in a container that maintains their needed pressure, put it on a cable, and lower it through the bridge. And have it open when it reaches the proper depth. Tarantulas 11:03 pm I don't remember the species, but the ocean is rather deep, which means that'd entail more effort than I'm willing to put in for a small party like this. But it's alright, the solution is similar. ItsyBitsySpyers 11:03 pm *Excuse you. Every single one of those beings is worth all that effort. Not that he'll say as much out loud. In front of Bevel, anyway.* *He's still listening though.* Tarantulas 11:05 pm I'll prepare pressure-contained tanks, fill them with the appropriate environment, hook them up to my portal one at a time, target the creatures so they navigate into the chambers when the portal's opened, and voila. Simply do the reverse for release. (( IT'S MY JAM Bevel 11:06 pm *is listening to make sure all the cool critters will be safe* Tarantulas 11:06 pm (( *sings along* ItsyBitsySpyers 11:06 pm *Soundwave taps his fingers against his leg.* [[That sounds... reasonable.]] Bevel 11:07 pm ((This song is so damn good Tarantulas 11:07 pm (( also the music vid A+ ItsyBitsySpyers 11:07 pm *He was about to start researching what it would take to keep them on Cybertron. So, y'know. This is better.* Tarantulas 11:07 pm *no more additions to your collections, sw* Bevel 11:08 pm ((So good, ladies supporting ladies ItsyBitsySpyers 11:08 pm *One plant is hardly a collection!* ItsyBitsySpyers 11:10 pm *...And he never brought the human into the habitat that was built for them, so there.* Tarantulas 11:10 pm *keeping humans is amusing, sw should try it sometime* FakeProwl 11:11 pm *NO* ItsyBitsySpyers 11:11 pm *IN HIS DEFENSE, THEY WEREN'T ENTIRELY AGAINST IT* ItsyBitsySpyers 11:12 pm *He's definitely never mentioning the idea to turn them into a cassette though. That'll just. Stay out of an entire timeline's worth of hearing range of Prowl.* Tarantulas 11:13 pm *divert it in tarantulas's direction, he'll never speak a word* ItsyBitsySpyers 11:13 pm *It was a more desperate time. Don't you judge him.* Bevel 11:13 pm *the brief mention of a plant reminds the mun that Bevel needs to identify the plant she traded for that one movie night* ItsyBitsySpyers 11:14 pm [[...He will bring some patterns for them. Buzzsaw can make them.]] Tarantulas 11:14 pm Patterns for - ? ItsyBitsySpyers 11:14 pm [[The cephalopods capable of changing their colors.]] [[Something for them to exercise their minds on.]] Bevel 11:15 pm Can I help? Tarantulas 11:15 pm Oh, oh, yes, I see. Mind you, I'm not certain how much of their mind is exercised by their color changing. Bevel 11:15 pm *she's gonna be having a hard enough time resisting the urge to shift and see if they'll change colors to match* ItsyBitsySpyers 11:17 pm [[Yes, Bevel. He would like that.]]

[[And neither is he. If nothing else, it will be something they do not have in the ocean. It is all he can think of they might li... jars. Jars and - fish. He will procure fish.]] [[Ravage should be able to gather some of that.]] ItsyBitsySpyers 11:19 pm *Maybe a couple of crabs? Or clams dug out of the sand? Some of them might have preferences...* Bevel 11:20 pm Awesome. FakeProwl 11:20 pm ... Do they like jars? *that seems like an odd thing for them to like* ItsyBitsySpyers 11:22 pm [[He thinks so. He has seen captive ones open them to get what it is inside. There are some that carry large seed shells with them as well.]] Tarantulas 11:23 pm Hyeheh, it's true. I'll leave you in charge of their entertainment and mental stimulation, then, Soundwave. ItsyBitsySpyers 11:24 pm *Soundwave plays back a small fanfare. He is legitimately happy to be assigned this role.* Bevel 11:25 pm *grins, this is gonna be the coolest trip* Tarantulas 11:26 pm *tarantulas hopes so. maybe he can trick you into revealing some of your tricks too, bevel* ItsyBitsySpyers 11:26 pm *Agreed. Whole-sparkedly.*

*...Not on the revealing tricks bit, but he can't hear that hope.* Bevel 11:27 pm *is gonna try to be good but she never found a shapeshifting teacher* ItsyBitsySpyers 11:27 pm *Unable to quite contain himself, he allows himself to send Prowl a gif of falling foil confetti and an accompanying excitement tag. And a restraint tag. Just so Prowl understands he's not going to burst out and suddenly start yelling or whatever it is other people do.* ItsyBitsySpyers 11:28 pm *He then sends Bevel a task: acquire the largest pair of co-co-nut shells she can find and make a replacement out of sturdier supplies.* *There is a promise of payment attached.* Bevel 11:29 pm *can definitely do this! excited ping back* Tarantulas 11:30 pm *is sliding out of his sling/hammock and casually disattaching it* FakeProwl 11:31 pm *... ping ping ping.* Bevel 11:33 pm ((cro has request, i play that instead ItsyBitsySpyers 11:33 pm *And one of intense affection.*

*Ah. Are we leaving? Tarantulas is leaving. He should take the hint.* [[He should be on his way shortly. There is something he must do tomorrow.]] FakeProwl 11:33 pm Oh? ItsyBitsySpyers 11:33 pm ((the mun says as she promptly forgets what she was going to have him do...)) Bevel 11:33 pm ((whoops Aw, ok. ItsyBitsySpyers 11:34 pm ((OH YEAH i remember now)) [[Yes. He ordered a special item. Its creator informed him earlier today that it is ready.]] [[Among our other trades, per usual.]] FakeProwl 11:35 pm Ah. So you need to be in to pick up the delivery. Bevel 11:35 pm Can you say what you ordered or is it a secret? Tarantulas 11:36 pm Can you say who you ordered it from? That might be more informative. FakeProwl 11:36 pm *asks absolutely no questions about it, which may be informative all by itself.* Bevel 11:37 pm ((not at all ic Tarantulas 11:37 pm (( lmao ItsyBitsySpyers 11:37 pm [[He does.]]

[[Ah. Rumble and Frenzy have been asking for Arcade to replicate a new game console.]] *Not technically the item he meant, but also something he has to pick up personally. It's a surprise for them. And it'll stop them asking why Prowl isn't asking. He hopes.* Tarantulas 11:38 pm *doesn't 100% believe sw but doesn't feel like poking* ItsyBitsySpyers 11:38 pm *He can call in and check if he wants. It's true.* Bevel 11:39 pm *isn't observant enough to wonder why Prowl isn't asking, besides Prowl might already know since he's a, uh, friend* ItsyBitsySpyers 11:39 pm *FUNNY YOU SHOULD THINK THAT...* FakeProwl 11:39 pm *... now not sure if that's actually what it is, or if that's the cover story for the others* Bevel 11:39 pm I bet they will really like that. *100% believes him* Tarantulas 11:41 pm Certainly. *stretching* I must be on my way as well. ItsyBitsySpyers 11:41 pm [[Oh yes. Something about being a... what is it called. Switch? In any case, it's supposed to be important.]] Tarantulas 11:41 pm (( is that a double entendre (( it is isnt it Bevel 11:42 pm I do not know much about Earth games. *Bevel no* FakeProwl 11:42 pm *... okay now it's definitely the handcuffs.* *mystery solved* ItsyBitsySpyers 11:42 pm *Soundwave rises, enormously pleased with himself for that one, and nods to them all in turn.* [[Goodnight, all.]] Tarantulas 11:42 pm (( i cant fuckin believe you cro FakeProwl 11:42 pm Evening. ItsyBitsySpyers 11:43 pm ((u better believe it)) Tarantulas 11:43 pm Until next time. I'll be making preparations, hyeh. FakeProwl 11:43 pm ... Let me know if you're going to need help playtesting the new machine. *so very, very cool and casual* Bevel 11:44 pm ((*physically resists having Bevel query about that remark because tired ItsyBitsySpyers 11:44 pm *With any luck, so will he.*

[[Thank you. He'd like to make sure it doesn't have problems with locking up.]] Tarantulas 11:44 pm *since when has prowl been into gaming, tarantulas wonders* FakeProwl 11:44 pm (("what, do you think i don't play video games?" says prowl, who probably doesn't know how to hold a controller right-side up)) Bevel 11:44 pm ((Prowl, expect Bevel to ask you about how playtesting went later. FakeProwl 11:45 pm ((GOOD)) Tarantulas 11:45 pm *is off home now, au revoir* Bevel 11:45 pm *waves* ItsyBitsySpyers 11:47 pm *Follows suit by heading to the edge of the open wall, jumping off, and zipping on home in alt mode. There's some energy to work off after that last little innuendo-laced exchange.* FakeProwl 11:47 pm *SOUNDWAVE THIS IS A CITY* *WHAT ARE YOU DOING FLYING BETWEEN BUILDINGS* ItsyBitsySpyers 11:48 pm *WHAT ARE YOU GONNA DO, ARREST HIM?* FakeProwl 11:48 pm *HE COULD CALL HIS ALTERNATE* ItsyBitsySpyers 11:48 pm *-HE WOULDN'T DARE.- BEVEL DON'T LET HIM DO IT, DISTRACT HIM* *SOUNDWAVE WILL PAY YOU* Bevel 11:49 pm *this universe's Prowl does not look forward to that call because she'll have to send someone to follow up on it* *don't do that to Chase, he's barely an adult, Prowl* FakeProwl 11:50 pm *would having an uncomfortable rescue bot awkwardly asking questions be enough to discourage soundwave from RECKLESSLY ENDANGERING HIMSELF AND THE NEARBY ARCHITECTURE again* Bevel 11:51 pm *Bevel used Distraction! It's... not very effective. Especially since she's trying to think of how to complete the task Soundwave gave her* ItsyBitsySpyers 11:51 pm *Who's recklessly endangering anything? Is this not common where Prowl's from? Why the Pit do they have balconies on their apartments then? Is this why he's getting odd looks all the time?* FakeProwl 11:52 pm *you're supposed to go UP in the SKY and be OVER the buildings* ItsyBitsySpyers 11:54 pm *That's for work. And most every other time. Today he wants to feel his wings.* ItsyBitsySpyers 11:58 pm *But anyway, he's gone. He'll attend future meetings a lot less recklessly.* FakeProwl 11:59 pm *HE'D BETTER* Yesterday Bevel 11:59 pm *awkwardly waves to Prowl, who she assumes is probably not staying long since everyone else left* FakeProwl 12:00 am *now that he's done gaping in outrage at soundwave's departure? no, probably not.* *farewell, he is gone.* Bevel 12:01 am *oh good no stilted attempts at conversation, she'll get to cleaning up now*

[scify65]

Scify’s Ars Paradoxica Code Post, pt. 3

Parts 1 and 2 / Part 3 / Part 4 / Part 4b / Part 5 / Part 6

Alright. It looks like we're getting a new code with every episode this season, so I'm going to try and update this a little bit more often. Quick reminder that the Tumblr dashboard hates html tables, so there's a chance you'll need to click through to the full post on my blog to see everything.

Spoilers below the cut for the codes in Episodes 24 and 25.

Episode 24: 08 02 28 28 19 22 28 09 12 11 18 19 16 31 20 40 25 30 41 25 30 38 38 33 28 38 47

Once again, the code in Episode 24 seems fairly straightforward. There's another new component (The markets are: RISING), but we're still dealing with numbers. One odd thing, though, is that many, but not all, of the numbers fall outside of the usual 1-26 range, with more of those numbers falling outside the range the further into the message we get.

The first approach I took was suspecting a double encode, using both the weather (ARID) and the market status to run a green decryption twice over. I assumed the numbers outside of the range were just looped back around (ie, 27 = A, 28 = B, etc). To save myself quite a bit of typing, that produced gibberish, regardless of which way I processed the code.

Going back to the oddity of the out-of-range numbers, spending a few moments looking over the message reveals that not only are the out-of-range numbers more common towards the end of the message, but they're progressively larger, on average. That implies that something might be shifting the numbers themselves to higher values, a shift that increases over time. A rising shift, if you will.

The simplest rising shift would be +1-+2-+3-etc, but that immediately runs into the problem of the second number in the message being 2 (2 - 2 = 0). However, if we start instead at 0, everything works out, and we get the following for our new number sequence.

08022819222809121118 19 -0-1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10 0801261618230305030909

Then, just run that through a green decode and you get the unencrypted message.

Episode 25: 08 12 06 08 12 26 06 13 10 14 06 19 02 12 12 20 16 11 12 21 26 26 17 26 01

This message gets weird right off the bat. The color is stitched together from the recordings for BLUE and YELLOW, which ends up sounding something like BLUELLOW. Personally, it sounds to me like it's actually layered BLUE/RED, but the consensus on the Decryption channel (and the actual decryption itself) is BLUE/YELLOW. Pseudo-edit: Also, it turns out I've never looked at the episode descriptions, which contain the codes and stated information (color, weather, time, etc). It does not, however, contain meta information, like pacing or tone. So keep that in mind if you're trying to solve based on the description alone for this season.

The next thing is that the message is presented in two voices: low and high pitched. This sent a bunch of us down the trail of two different messages, and, paired with my confusion on the colors, had me applying the blue and red codes based on the pitch, on the hypothesis that it was tied to the Doppler effect (which was how most people initially figured out the blue and red codes). This was the right idea, it turns out, but, obviously, the wrong mixture of colors.

The different voice pitches are essential for decoding this message, because they indicate which numbers have a blue decode applied to them, and which ones use a yellow instead. There's no clear indication of which one is which, however (at least not that I caught), so I had to run it both ways before I got the correct pattern, which is yellow for low-pitch and blue for high-pitch. So, for the first ten letters, we get this:

Number:081206260812260613 Pitch:LHHLHLLLL Letter:HLFZHLZFM Key:HUMIDHUMI Translation:ORTHESTRU

[blainemoriarty]

Adventure Time Season 5 Starters ¼

Episode 1 - Finn the Human

"He's heading to that cube!"

"Did you guys see that? You know that was a ghost wearing a dead guy? That might be the nastiest thing I've ever seen."

"I'm basically honorary nasty."

"It depends on the wish I granted him."

"He wished for the extinction of all life and I did it."

"I need you to take the mule into town today and sell him for as much as you can."

"I push you, you fall down!"

"I guess dad must be in a lot of trouble to be doing this..."

"I'm a thousand years old, and this is my crown!"

"This crown is magic - bad, terrible magic. Too dangerous for mortal fingies like yours!"

"Daddy says the false prophets of old used cheap parlor tricks to control the people, and to get babes. Like, ten or twelve hot babes each."

"Go back to the underworld, you beast!"

"I know you're not really talking to me. I'm not crazy."

Episode 2 - Jake the Dog

“Sometimes a well-intentioned wish can lead to… Nuts.”

“No, that’s not possible. I raised you better than that!”

“I’m serious, man. You’re like a strong number three on my Cool Guys List.”

“Aw man, my dad used to make pickles. It’s all he used to talk about. He’d obsess over them all the time. When I’d come in from playing, he’d be like, ‘Here ___, try these.’“

“Why am I cold and confused?!”

“Fear not, icicle child - for I have birthed you into a new life!”

“Ah, my kicks!”

“I’ve taught you well, my traitorous gang.”

“The voices… They tell me to freeze the world.”

“Get off of me, weirdo!”

“I am the end and the beginning. I am the hand of madness.”

“Dude, I get out of relationships because I don’t wanna have a discussion about what we’re gonna have for dinner every. Night.”

“What is a singular doing in this realm?!”

“I warned you, you butt.”

“Focus! Here, eat this egg. It’s brain food.”

Episode 3 - Five More Short Graybles

“You ready for some ancient feel-good spellcraft?”

“I don’t feel like a good boy.”

“You sure you read that spell right?”

“Hey, check out that gross toad.”

“Let’s find some more holes.”

“I’m sorry, but the wheels of justice spin too slowly. I’m going to have to take the law into my own hands.”

“Thank y’all for coming. The police have failed me in my time of need.”

“I’ve brought you all together - a posse!”

“You’re gonna have a new mommy to help boss you around.”

“It’s a wife ring. This one’s for me - I’m the husband. That means I get the remote control three times a week and you get it four!”

“But I don’t understand. I’m a real baby girl now.”

“I will not always be here to protect you. No, you must learn.”

“I know a thing or two about good boys.”

Episode 4 - Up A Tree

“Oh man! My throwing and catching disk!”

“Sometimes a man just has to retrieve his own disk.”

“Hello, I apologize for staring, but I’ve never seen a chipmunk as big as you.”

“Must’a could not heard me.”

“Just do me a kindness and go get me some more nut milk.”

“In the tree, part of the tree.”

Episode 5 - All the Little People

“Do you think you should date someone who’s like you, or someone who’s like, your opposite?”

“I didn’t mean that, don’t spread that around.”

“So, it’s not good to weigh somebody’s qualities against your own?”

“Oh, I see. You’re being weird.”

“I’m not coming back.”

“Hey, what’s that in your pants?”

“No, don’t play with that hack…”

“Did you stay up all night reading trash books?” 

“I don’t like where you’re going with this. It ain’t wholesome.”

“I’m back! I got over all that messed up stuff you did.”

“Look at me, man! I’m staring into the shadow of my darkest mind-hole!”

Episode 6 - Jake the Dad

“Puppies, puppies, puppies!”

“They’re still pretty sleepy. Sleepy little sweeties.”

“Real talk - are you worried about being a dad?”

“This is not for babies!”

“They just sit there while you eat them.”

“It’s every parent’s worst nightmare!”

Episode 7 - Davey

“Don’t let the dragon drag on, man.”

“Have dinner with me! Please! Please! Please! ____! Please!”

“We should get out of here man, I think someone called the heat.”

“Gimme your bank account! Bang bang! Reach for the roof, and give me all your gold bricks!”

“Do you wanna have dinner instead of breakfast today?”

“Mister, I don’t know nothing about that.”

“I’m a robber and I’m gonna rob somebody’s life!”

“Here’s your meal, criminal. We feed our criminals.”

Episode 8 - Mystery Dungeon

“Awake! Alas! Hold tight your buns, if buns you do hold dear!”

“What are those awful words?”

“I’m reading the wall. They are wall words.”

“I no longer need this map. I have infellible recall.”

“Oh! The room is tryna hug us!”

“This is wrong. The map lied to me! It doesn’t want me to find the exit!”

“Make yourself into food, now!”

“Don’t you remember? I am your son.”

“This heat is negating my powers.”

“That’s… warm on my under-carriage.”

“Wow, that was heavy, man.”

“My juice! My vital juices!”

“I got no time for no-body dancin’ around, and actin’ a fool at my expense.”

 “I knocked y’all out and brought you here!”

“Father, look at me. Are you happy with me now, Papi?”

“All my brilliant fantasies will now be real!”

“Bye, don’t follow me.”

“I will wait for you, across the threshold of consciousness.”

Episode 9 - All Your Fault

“Are you lemon? Does your head come to a nub?”

“You are un-lemon.”

“Maybe we should hold hands… For safety!”

“There is no more candy to hoard. Let them keep what crumbs they find, for there are no crumbs.”

“It just felt so pretty okay inside, greeting eat new placid face, and hearing each new piercing song.”

“Its all your fault! We warned you! We warned you about us!” 

“Just smash it already, Grandma.”

“Woah, hold the phones. What is this powerful new juice coursing from my core source?”

“Is this the rumored ache of feeling? The feeling of caring unknown to lemons?”

“Their hearts are fine. They’re just like this.”

Episode 10 - Little Dude

“First one in the water is, um… First one in the water!”

“I’ll use the sassage flare.”

“Grob, dude! Your hat’s alive!”

“Yeah man, hats can be anything. Pants. Other people. Its fine!”

“Your head looks weird with short hair, dude. Feels like a peach.”

“Only good babies get sassages.”

“Man, we should tell him we know he sleeps on the top of our house.”

“Papa always said I was a bad wizard…”

“All I can do is think about my Papa and how much I disappoint him!”

“Uh, yeah. Just think about your mom and use your magic.”

“It’s not his fault he was created evil.”

Episode 11 - Bad Little Boy

“That’s not a book! It’s a bomb!”

“Go on, get outta here, and don’t ever do wrong things again!”

“Lets have a best-and-closest-friend lunch!”

“Oh my. Looks like you almost skronked up my dome-piece.”

“I’m not going out there. It’s wet.”

“Don’t you know I’m a villain?”

“Out of my way, kitty.”

“This is bad, guys. This is really bad.”

“You’re like the realest person I’ve ever met.”

Episode 12 - Vault of Bones

“Let’s go have a good time in a dungeon, or something.”

“That tree over there is not made of wood.”

“I shall grant thee clemency, if you do the splits. Do the splits!”

“See? A lot of times you can overpower these guys with confidence.”

“Why would someone go through the trouble of setting up a hologram? Unless… They’ve hidden something in this room.”

“Hot Daniel. I thought you were gonna burn me alive.”

Episode 13 - The Great Bird Man

“Some say he’s a half-man half-bird that poops fire while he flies.”

“The mermaids are trying to beach themselves. I’m trying to figure out why. Turns out they’re just lonely.”

“This is the rookery, where I and my bird friends dwell.”

“When we first met, I was crazy for smacking goblin hams.”

“I pissed off a wizard and he took my eyes. I wonder what he wanted them for. Some kind of lotion, or potion, or time-travelling spell.”

“It was crazy how his eyeballs were just hangin’ there.”

“I manipulated space with a vibrational chant.”

“I love these birds more than I love myself.”

“Your eyes weren’t stolen by a wizard. They’re in your beard.”

“We didn’t tell you because we thought you might still be a wong-lord.”

“All my friends, to the sky.”

“Anyone who disagrees with me should get a spanking!”

“Where’s the butt on this thing?”

Episode 14 - Simon & Marcy

“I’ll get us all some little waters.”

“Why’d you invite Ancient Chubs to play basketball?”

“Yeah, lay down ___. Go to sleep!”

“Ew. It’s a dead rat.”

“You stay in the car, I’ll be right back.”

“You’re not gonna put it on, are you?”

“Don’t worry, I can control it better now.”

“I call upon the power of ice and snow!”

“You will no longer terrify a 47 year old man and a 7 year old girl!”

“Vandalism is wrong, ___.”

“Aw, everything’s gone.”

“I have to protect us.”

“I’m as old as garlic balls, if someone offered to pick me up and carry me, I’d do it in a heartbeat.”

“Gross. You’re gross.”

“Clams? The Clambulance?! No! I need chicken!”

“____, cover your ears!”

“Our butts are grass, right?”

“Don’t leave me here, I can fight!”

“You have to keep it together. For her.”

“You’re gonna feel awesome in a moment.”

“Keep telling these chump stories while I score a bunch of baskets.”

[erraticfairy]

Podcast: Can People With Mental Illness Be Happy?



Those of us with mental illness are asked many questions about our feelings. For a lot of us, the most difficult one to answer is, “Are you happy?” It’s a difficult question to answer because happiness isn’t an easily defined concept. Most people assume that in order to be in recovery from mental illness a person must be happy. But is that really the case?

Listen in to this episode to hear our thoughts on happiness, regret, and even a side story about Gabe’s first marriage.

  SUBSCRIBE & REVIEW

“People just want to be happy and normal, but there is no actual definition of either.” – Michelle Hammer

  Highlights From ‘Happiness’ Episode

[1:00] Gabe & Michelle discuss happiness and mental illness.

[3:30] The most annoying questions we have ever been asked.

[5:00] Gabe’s story of never being satisfied with his life.

[10:00] What makes Michelle unhappy.

[12:00] What makes Gabe unhappy.

[17:00] Do people try to ruin our happiness? – A discussion.

[19:00] Michelle says she has confidence – but does she?

[23:00] Dealing with mental illness and negativity.

Computer Generated Transcript for ‘Can People With Mental Illness Be Happy?’ Show

Editor’s Note: Please be mindful that this transcript has been computer generated and therefore may contain inaccuracies and grammar errors. Thank you.

Announcer: [00:00:07] For reasons that utterly escape everyone involved, you’re listening to A Bipolar, a Schizophrenic, and a Podcast. Here are your hosts, Gabe Howard and Michelle Hammer.

Gabe: [00:00:19] Welcome to A Bipolar, a Schizophrenic, and a Podcast. My name is Gabe and I have bipolar.

Michelle: [00:00:25] I’m Michelle and I’m schizophrenic.

Gabe: [00:00:27] You are straight up schizo.

Gabe: [00:00:29] Apparently I am. That’s what the doctors say.

Gabe: [00:00:31] Michelle, one of the questions that people living with mental illness get asked, pretty much ad nauseum, is, “Are you happy?” Do people ask you this?

Michelle: [00:00:40] Yeah. I think so, yeah.

Gabe: [00:00:41] There’s a bunch of them. “Are you OK?” “How are you feeling?”  “Are you doing OK?”.

Michelle: [00:00:45] I hate that one. “So how are you doing? Like on a personal level? Like, how are you personally?” You know.

Gabe: [00:00:53] They’re asking if we’re happy. I’m not saying that’s necessarily a bad question. I mean, they want to know if we’re OK.  And the way that we, as a society, gauge “okay” is if we’re content, if we’re happy, if we’re not sad. I mean, it’s not an unfair question, right? I mean, do we really want to get mad at people for making sure that we’re content?  Or that we’re happy?

Michelle: [00:01:13] I feel like people have ulterior motives sometimes when they ask you if you’re happy.

Gabe: [00:01:18] Like what?

Michelle: [00:01:19] They want to see if you could actually be happy.

Gabe: [00:01:22] So you think it’s like a gotcha question?

Michelle: [00:01:23] Sometimes.

Gabe: [00:01:23] Really?

Michelle: [00:01:24] They’re like, “Are you happy?”

Gabe: [00:01:26] I feel like maybe you’re hanging out with mean people. Nobody has ever asked me if I’m okay or if I’m happy so that they can trick me. I mean how would that go? “Gabe, are you happy?” Yes. “Aha! I have fooled you, you none-bipolar liar!” That’s kind of weird, you have to admit.

Michelle: [00:01:41] Whatever.

Gabe: [00:01:42] One of the reasons we want to do this episode is because, 1) there’s, like, 5 questions that people with mental illness gets asked constantly.  You know – “Have you taken your meds?”  “Are you doing okay?” “How are you feeling?” “Are you happy?”  The “are you happy?” one handcuffs me.

Michelle: [00:01:56] Why?

Gabe: [00:01:57] Because, I don’t know. I mean, how do you define happiness? You know our “Define Normal” initiative?

Michelle: [00:02:03] Yeah.

Gabe: [00:02:04] Where everybody gave a different answer for what “normal” was. Yet it’s something that’s thrown around by our society constantly.

Michelle: [00:02:13] Mmm-hmm.

Gabe: [00:02:13] I think if we asked a hundred different people what it means to be happy, we’d get 100 different answers. So when people say to me, “Are you happy?” I have no earthly idea.

Michelle: [00:02:24] Good point. And do you think anyone would actually say, “Yes, I am happy” and feel like they’re telling the truth or feel like they’re lying?

Gabe: [00:02:33] This is something that kind of keeps me up at night. Allow me to explain: Let’s say that you said right now, “Gabe, are you happy?” I would say, “Yes. My friend Michelle is here and our podcast is doing very well.” And then somebody would say, “Well, but I mean, how could you be happy? I mean, you have a debilitating disease and there’s so much suffering in the world?  And I mean really! You’re happy with the homeless people that might die from coldness? And what about all the hungry children?” “Oh. Well, I’m not happy about that.” “Really? You’re not happy!?! Your friend Michelle was here!” Where does this end?

Michelle: [00:03:10] The never ending nonsense circle.

Gabe: [00:03:14] Michelle, how do you define “happy.”

Michelle: [00:03:17] How would I define “happy?”

Gabe: [00:03:19] Yes, that’s the question. Why do you keep repeating the question?

Michelle: [00:03:21] I’m thinking of my answer for defining “happy.” Well, how would I define happy? Not being able to get rid of a huge smile on my face.

Gabe: [00:03:32] Okay, so you’re never happy. You’re never smiling. You always look constantly pissed off. So I don’t think that’s true. I really don’t, because I know that you’re not constantly pissed off. You just have resting angry face.

Michelle: [00:03:45] I don’t have resting angry face. That’s just around you.

Gabe: [00:03:48] Okay. Well, you have Gabe angry face. Oh my God! You have GAF!

Michelle: [00:03:54] Shut up.

Gabe: [00:03:55] See, now you’re mean to me. So I’m clearly not happy now.

Michelle: [00:03:58] Good. Are you happy?

Gabe: [00:03:59] No.

Michelle: [00:04:00] Did you take your meds today?

Gabe: [00:04:03] One, yes-

Michelle: [00:04:03] How are you doing?

Gabe: [00:04:04] I’m good, I’m fine.

Michelle: [00:04:06] Are you sure? Are you well?

Gabe: [00:04:08] Well, there’s another one. Now hang on a second-

Michelle: [00:04:10] How’s your work? Do you have a job?

Gabe: [00:04:11] Ugh…okay.

Michelle: [00:04:12] Wow, you have a job? Are you able to work?

Gabe: [00:04:14] Oh, you’re killing me.

Michelle: [00:04:15] Are you on disability?

Gabe: [00:04:16] You’re killing me.  No. No. Not that there’s anything wrong with that-

Michelle: [00:04:18] Do you live with your parents?

Gabe: [00:04:19] No.

Michelle: [00:04:20] Do you have any kids?

Gabe: [00:04:21] No.

Michelle: [00:04:21] Do you plan on getting married?

Gabe: [00:04:23] I am married.

Michelle: [00:04:24] Really? Wow! Does she like you a lot?

Gabe: [00:04:29] No, I’m bipolar. I think happiness has, like, moving goalposts. My Uncle Jack was a really cool guy. He passed away many years ago, but I really liked him a lot when I was younger. Because he talked to me like an adult. He recognized that I had intelligence beyond my years. So here’s this old guy, and he’s talking to a 14 year-old about, you know, adult subject matter. And a lot of adults were uneasy about this, but he wasn’t. And one of the things that he told me is that when it came to money, the perfect amount of money to make was 50 dollars more than you were currently making. And his point was that it didn’t matter how much money you had, you were always fifty dollars away from having something else. And when he said this to me, I thought, “You’re nuts.” If I have, let’s say, fifty thousand dollars. Now this was 30 years ago, but I thought, if I made fifty thousand dollars a year I would be happy. I would be perfectly happy with that kind of money. And then, when I made that kind of money I wasn’t happy with it. And then I made eighty thousand dollars a year, and I wasn’t happy with that. And then I made a hundred thousand dollars a year and I wasn’t happy with that.

Michelle: [00:05:39] All that’s coming through, Gabe, is that you need to give me some money.

Gabe: [00:05:45] That’s the takeaway?

Michelle: [00:05:47] That’s it. The takeaway is that you need to give me some money.

Gabe: [00:05:49] I think the takeaway is that I think that’s how happiness works.

Michelle: [00:05:53] Well, happiness comes with money.

Gabe: [00:05:54] No. No, I think that-

Michelle: [00:05:56] Mo’ money, mo’ problems.

Gabe: [00:05:58] Well, mo’ happiness, mo’ problems.

Michelle: [00:06:00] What? Continue your story.

Gabe: [00:06:08] Thanks, Michelle. When I was really, really, really sick –  I mean really sick, like not showering for days at a time, laying in my own filth, not leaving the house, planning on dying, trying to will myself to death – I would lay there and I’d think, “If I could just get out of bed I’d be happy.” And I meant it, I wasn’t lying. It wasn’t a joke. I just thought that if I could just get up, if I could just take a shower, if I could just wash my hair, then I would be happy. But that’s not the mark of happiness. Now I get up every morning, I take a shower, I wash my hair, I get dressed, and I leave the house, and that doesn’t make me happy.  That’s the lowest bar possible. That’s just an expectation at this point. But every time I achieve something – like remember when we started the podcast? We started the podcast and I was like, “Michelle, I’ll be happy when we have X number of listeners per week.” Do you remember that?

Michelle: [00:07:08] Uh-huh.

Gabe: [00:07:08] You were there, and I said, “That will make me happy!”  Well, we surpassed that months ago and I’m still unhappy. I’m unhappy that we didn’t grow month to month. I’m unhappy that one episode dipped. I’m unhappy that one whatever.  So, happiness is just this nebulous concept that you can’t put your finger on, and all of us are chasing it like it’s meaningful. Like it has meaning. We want to be happy, but none of us can define it. And even when we define it, once we get there we just redefine it.

Michelle: [00:07:41] It’s just interesting that people just want to be happy and normal, yet there’s really no such thing as happy and normal. Nobody is happy and normal.

Gabe: [00:07:53] I think that nobody is happy or normal because, again, there’s just no definition for it. I think that, depending on what the definition is, either nobody is happy and normal or everybody is happy and normal.

Michelle: [00:08:06] Yeah, I mean, there’s always, like, things that can make you happy.  But it’s not like a lifelong happiness.

Gabe: [00:08:12] You know what makes me happy?

Michelle: [00:08:13] Your dog?

Gabe: [00:08:14] When you’re ready to record on time.

Michelle: [00:08:15] OK.

Gabe: [00:08:15] And my dog. I really like my dog.

Michelle: [00:08:18] Yeah. I mean, your dog makes me happy, but I mean I don’t like and when he cries and stuff. It’s sad.

Gabe: [00:08:24] Why does he cry? Wait, why are you making my dog cry?

Michelle: [00:08:26] Your dog cries all the time! We walked in the house, and your dog was crying.

Gabe: [00:08:29] Because he wanted you to play with him! Did you play with him?

Michelle: [00:08:33] No.

Gabe: [00:08:33] So you just walked in the house and ignored him and just went about your business.

Michelle: [00:08:37] Yes.

Gabe: [00:08:37] Wow! You ignored a crying puppy.

Michelle: [00:08:40] He was in his crate.  I didn’t want to let him out of the crate.

Gabe: [00:08:41] You left him when he was trapped in a crate.

Michelle: [00:08:44] You let him out of the crate, so shut up!

Gabe: [00:08:47] I did let him out.

Michelle: [00:08:48] You’re not funny.

Gabe: [00:08:48] I’m a little bit funny.

Michelle: [00:08:50] No.

Gabe: [00:08:51] I’m not?

Michelle: [00:08:52] Your jokes make me unhappy.

Gabe: [00:08:55] Can you define “jokes?”.

Michelle: [00:08:56] Nothing you say.

Gabe: [00:08:59] That’s actually an excellent question, though. Because “jokes” has a definition. The word joke has a definition. It’s something that makes people laugh. Right?

Michelle: [00:09:07] Uh-huh

Gabe: [00:09:07] OK cool. So if I tell a joke and you laugh, but John doesn’t laugh, does that mean I told you a joke? But I didn’t tell John a joke? Even though I said the same thing to both of you at the exact same time?

Michelle: [00:09:23] Well, maybe John didn’t think it was as funny.

Gabe: [00:09:25] So it’s still a joke?

Michelle: [00:09:27] It was a joke, but it wasn’t funny to everybody.

Gabe: [00:09:32] So you can be happy with something but maybe somebody else who had the same thing wouldn’t be happy?

Michelle: [00:09:37] Right.

Gabe: [00:09:38] Is it possible that people like us, people with mental illness – especially people with depression side of it -, is it possible that we are happy? We just trick ourselves into thinking that we’re not?

Michelle: [00:09:49] I think maybe we dwell too much on the things that make us unhappy.

Gabe: [00:09:53] What are some things that you dwell on that make you unhappy?

Michelle: [00:09:56] Oh goodness! Past experiences with people that just did not go well. Arguments, fights embarrassments, that just go around in my head. Where I wish I did things differently or I wasn’t sure what was going on. Basically just things I wish I could have changed but that I can’t change now just get under my skin.

Gabe: [00:10:22] So you live with a lot of regret?

Michelle: [00:10:24] Mmm-hmmm

Gabe: [00:10:24] And you think that that regret is making you unhappy?

Michelle: [00:10:28] Yes.

Gabe: [00:10:28] Now, the things that you regret happened in the past. So clearly time travel is not a thing?

Michelle: [00:10:34] Mm hmm.

Gabe: [00:10:34] So you can’t go back and fix it?

Michelle: [00:10:36] Right.

Gabe: [00:10:36] So it’s ruining your present even though it happened in the past? And we’re going to assume that it’s going to ruin your future, even though it happened in the past?

Michelle: [00:10:44] Right.

Gabe: [00:10:45] So you’re literally wrecking your entire life because of something that you regret, that happened a while ago, that you cannot change or fix?

Michelle: [00:10:50] Well, how do I get it to go away?

Gabe: [00:10:52] Well, that’s a fair question. How do you get it to go away? Could you make amends?

Michelle: [00:10:56] No. No.

Gabe: [00:10:57] Like, not ever? You’re just stuck with it?

Michelle: [00:10:59] Yeah. Yeah.

Gabe: [00:11:00] What about radical acceptance? What about like thinking, “Look I accepted that I did this, I accepted it was wrong, and I accept it that I won’t do it again.  And therefore I forgive myself?”

Michelle: [00:11:10] Some things weren’t really my fault.

Gabe: [00:11:11] Then why do you regret them? And why are you unhappy about them?

Michelle: [00:11:14] Because things sometimes are just unfair.

Gabe: [00:11:17] So you’re upset about things that aren’t fair?

Michelle: [00:11:20] Yeah.

Gabe: [00:11:21] So you’re unhappy about something that’s unfair, that you had no control over at the time, and you certainly don’t have any control over now? Because, again, time travel is not a thing?

Michelle: [00:11:29] Yes.

Gabe: [00:11:31] That’s nuts! Hold that thought, Michelle.  We’re going to step away to hear from our sponsors.

2nd Announcer: [00:11:37] This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp.com. Secure, convenient, and affordable online counseling. All counselors are licensed, accredited professionals. Anything you share is confidential. Schedule secure video or phone sessions, plus chat and text with your therapist, whenever you feel it’s needed. A month of online therapy often costs less than a single traditional face-to-face session go to BetterHelp.com/PsychCentral and experience seven days of free therapy to see if online counseling is right for you. BetterHelp.com/PsychCentral.

Gabe: [00:12:09] And we are back discussing happiness.

Michelle: [00:12:12] Well, we just got to all the roots of my problems.  Gabe, thank you so much. And I can’t change the past and it won’t get out of my head.

Gabe: [00:12:22] I feel the exact same way. I’m still upset about how my first marriage ended. And I’m still upset about how my second marriage ended. I am now worried constantly about how my third marriage will end, because all marriages end. I mean, they either end in death or divorce. So there’s not good odds either way.  You’re kind of SOL there. But the things that I did in my past, some of them I was able to make up for. As you know, my second wife and I – you know she’s my bestie. She’s my BFF, and I’ve apologized to her, and I’ve told her I was sorry. And we still fight about this stuff, because we’re very immature as people. But, I think there’s a level of forgiveness there. But my first wife will not forgive me. She  – flat out.

Michelle: [00:13:09] What did you do to her?

Gabe: [00:13:09] Well I married her. That was bad.

Michelle: [00:13:12] It was bad to marry her? That’s what she said?

Gabe: [00:13:14] It turns out that women don’t really like being married to untreated bi-polars. I had no idea.

Michelle: [00:13:20] Was it your fault for marrying her? She said yes. She said I do. How is that your fault?

Gabe: [00:13:28] I…

Michelle: [00:13:29] Didn’t she know that you were an untreated bipolar?

Gabe: [00:13:31] No.

Michelle: [00:13:31] She didn’t?

Gabe: [00:13:33] None of us did.

Michelle: [00:13:34] Oh.

Gabe: [00:13:34] I didn’t get diagnosed with bipolar until after she left. That was one of the things that led me down the suicide path, her leaving. I wrecked my job, my marriage, my house, my home life, I was an embarrassment to my parents. She picked up and left and I was just like, “Fuck it! I want to die!” And I got lucky. I know that sounds weird, but me being suicidal and instituting a suicide plan and being so depressed and so messed up, that’s what led somebody see how sick I was and take me to the emergency room.

Michelle: [00:14:07] She should forgive you, though. Don’t you think?

Gabe: [00:14:10] I would like to think that she would, but she believes that I’m faking bipolar in order to con people for money.

Michelle: [00:14:17] Are you serious?

Gabe: [00:14:18] That’s not something you can make up.

Michelle: [00:14:22] Okay, I don’t really like her that much anymore.

Gabe: [00:14:24] I can’t feel that way. It would be easy if I could say that. I do think that she should consider everything that I went through, and should consider that I was in a psychiatric ward, and on, and on.

Michelle: [00:14:35] Here’s what I don’t understand-

Gabe: [00:14:36] I don’t know why she doesn’t believe in mental illness but she doesn’t.

Michelle: [00:14:38] If she was with you, and she saw you acting like you were acting, so much that she left, and then you happen to end up in the psych ward, wouldn’t she have said, “Oh, that makes a lot of sense!”?

Gabe: [00:14:53] No. She thought that I was faking because she believes that mentally ill people look a certain way. She believes that mentally ill people can’t be intelligent, they can’t hold down jobs. They rock back and forth and they drool. She believes in a very stereotypical version of mental illness.

Michelle: [00:15:06] She’s a bitch.

Gabe: [00:15:07] No, she’s not. And that’s the thing, I did hurt her. Do you know how many times I flew into a blind rage and just started screaming? I would be up for two, three, maybe four, days at a time and not come home. And I would just go out and fuck everything that moved. That not something that you can do to somebody and not give them long lasting emotional scars. I was her husband, and I let her down. I broke her trust, and we can discuss until we’re blue in the face that I did this because I had bipolar disorder, and some of that is true. But the bottom line is, she doesn’t want to forgive me. And that’s up to her, and I have to live with that. I would love to take your tact and just thin, “Yep, bitch!”  But I can’t. I wronged her. The end.

Michelle: [00:15:50] Do you want her in your life?

Gabe: [00:15:54] No, I want her not to be mad at me. It would alleviate alleviate my guilt if she was no longer mad at me, because I feel like I have caused her pain and unhappiness that is going to span her lifetime. Because she spent five years married to me, and that’s a lot I would hate to think that because somebody knew me, their life was worse. And that’s what we have. Because she knew me, her life is worse. That’s hard. It’s hard to know that I made somebody’s life worse. And that makes me unhappy.

Michelle: [00:16:32] I mean, I think I’ve given people challenges while they dealt with me. But I wouldn’t say I’ve made people’s lives worse. Maybe made it more interesting at times, I don’t know.

Gabe: [00:16:47] I have certainly made people’s lives more “interesting” at times, as well. But the big regret I have, and something that keeps me from being happy, is the way that I treated other people. And while it is true that bipolar disorder played a part in it, it wasn’t all bipolar disorder. It factored in, but I was an asshole.

Michelle: [00:17:09] I mean, at least now you know to apologize.

Gabe: [00:17:11] Yes. Yes.

Michelle: [00:17:12] You know, at least you’re not still on that track, yelling at her.  Being a horrible person. You know to apologize.

Gabe: [00:17:19] Yes, I was an incredibly bad husband.

Michelle: [00:17:21] Do you ever think people are trying to ruin your happiness?

Gabe: [00:17:24] That’s an interesting one as well, because, 1) yes, I absolutely think that people are trying to ruin my happiness.  But I also think, just as strongly, that I am not happy. So that’s kind of messed up. How can somebody both be trying to ruin my happiness and I’m not happy at the same time? But yet in my brain that completely tracks.

Michelle: [00:17:43] I feel like it’s very high school. Like when people try to ruin your happiness. Like, you might come in and you have the coolest shirt on and cool shoes. “Hi, guys. How are you doing? I like my new stuff here.” And everyone just kind of looks you and says, “Oh, okay, you got new clothes and new shoes? Oh, yeah. OK. Good for you.” Like they’re jealous. People get jealous of things. You know what I’m trying to say? 

Gabe: [00:18:03] I do.

Michelle: [00:18:03] High school stuff. Like you when I get a new haircut and then everyone just has to say it’s ugly, you know?

Gabe: [00:18:09] I mean, your hair is not great.

Michelle: [00:18:11] I’m just saying.

Gabe: [00:18:11] And also, that’s not a really cool shirt. And your shoes are kind of dollar store, but whatever, you do you.

Michelle: [00:18:18] That’s what I’m trying to say, though. That’s my point.

Gabe: [00:18:20] But does that pettiness bother you?

Michelle: [00:18:22] People do sometimes try to ruin other people’s happiness to make themselves feel better.

Gabe: [00:18:26] You buy new shoes and you are happy with the new shoes and then somebody says, “I hate those shoes.” Does it take any of your happiness away? I mean, honestly?  If you’re being honest? Does Michelle Hammer get sad or lose happiness if somebody calls her shoes ugly?

Michelle: [00:18:40] Me now? No way. Me 15 years ago? Absolutely.

Gabe: [00:18:47] But there’s still stuff that people can say to you that hurts your feelings?

Michelle: [00:18:52] Yes.

Gabe: [00:18:52] I just find that incredibly hard to believe. Because when I see you, I see somebody with so much confidence. You have guts that I can not quantify into words. You once yelled out “cock ring” in the middle of a crowded hotel lobby. Dude, do you know how much guts that takes? Like, for real? It was just a ballsy thing to do. You were loud, and brash, and amazing, and I remember when we met, I thought, “Oh my God, she needs to a) stop and b) continue.” And that just, like, wrestled in my brain. And it’s one of the reasons that I wanted to work with you, because it was just so incredibly engaging. But the more that I get to know you, and the more that we talk, and the more we prepare for shows, do shows, write, travel etc.. You know, I’ve gotten to know you. Know the softer side of Michelle.

Michelle: [00:19:47] The softer side (singing).

Gabe: [00:19:48] But you actually kind of have a confidence issue, don’t you?

Michelle: [00:19:53] I don’t have a confidence issue. I just don’t like when I feel like people are just giving me unsolicited advice.

Gabe: [00:20:01] Well, but that’s what I’m saying. Iff you were 100 percent confident in your actions, you would just tune all of them out. It hurts your feelings, the things that people say. Sometimes people post comments on the Internet. Literal strangers, and you call me up, and you’re upset. You’re angry or you’re just like, “Well, what is wrong with them? Why are they saying this? Why do they say I’m not schizophrenic? How would they know? Because I have purple?” You were really really bothered by that. When that lady said, “There are too many colors. So you can’t be schizophrenic.”

Michelle: [00:20:31] Because that just annoys me so much! Because then it makes me seem like a liar. And the last thing I want to be perceived as is a liar. I am not a liar. I don’t want anyone thinking that I’m a liar, and I don’t want anyone thinking that they can’t create art like mine because it is “too many colors.” That’s just a weird stereotype, or, you know, that’s a stereotype or that person just made it up.

Gabe: [00:20:54] Are you really not going to admit that your feelings were hurt?

Michelle: [00:20:56] I was just baffled and then my feelings were hurt. It was just kind of like, “Who is this idiot trying to say they know more about schizophrenia than a person who has schizophrenia!?!”

Gabe: [00:21:06] Allegedly.

Michelle: [00:21:08] Oh, yeah. Allegedly. It just, you know-

Gabe: [00:21:12] Who hurts your feelings, Michelle? Like, whose opinion is so important to you that if they are negative toward you it ruins your whole day? For me it would be my wife. My wife, and my friends, and my mom. There’s like five people that what they think of me matters so intensely, that if I am happy and they say something mean to me it wrecks my whole day. Who in your life can do that? Who can take your happiness and just flip it upside down?

Michelle: [00:21:40] No one.

Gabe: [00:21:41] Really? So you’re telling me, that if your phone rang right now and your mom said, “God, you suck at podcasting!” You would just be like, “whatever” and it wouldn’t bother you one iota?

Michelle: [00:21:52] I’d just tell her to stop listening.

Gabe: [00:21:55] You lie. You lie so much. It would hurt your feelings.

Michelle: [00:22:00] Does your mom say that to you?

Gabe: [00:22:03] No! God, no! We have a great podcast. But, I’m saying if she did, it would hurt my feelings.

Michelle: [00:22:08] Hmmmm.

Gabe: [00:22:08] If my mom told me my podcast sucked, I would be sad. I would be upset for the rest of the day.

Michelle: [00:22:12] I mean, she’s insulted me way more times than that. So it’s really not that big a deal.

Gabe: [00:22:16] And it hurt your feelings! Admit it! Admit that it hurts your feelings. It’s OK that your mother can hurt your feelings. She’s your mom. I’m just trying to say that there are people in our lives whose opinions are so important to us that they can turn us on a dime. And I wish that those people would be more careful with our feelings, because we’re struggling with a lot. But we can’t control them. And that’s really what I’m trying to say – we can’t control their behavior. You can’t make your mom, and I can’t make my mom, or my friends, or you, or me, be nicer to us. We just can’t. So what I try to do is control my own emotions. I wish that I could be like the person that you’re pretending to be where I just don’t care that somebody insulted me. I don’t care. Fuck them. But I’m not. I’m not that guy. When people insult me, when people say mean things, it hurts me it hurts my feelings deeply and genuinely. And I will ruminate on it for days, it means that much to me. And I wish I could make that go away. And that’s what I work on every day. If there was something that I was still working on in therapy, it would be that. And I’ve gotten a lot better. We’ve gotten a lot better at cutting toxic people out of our lives, which we’ve discussed in previous episodes. I’ve gotten better at asking people follow up questions, so that way when they do hurt my feelings, I make sure that that’s what they meant. And I give them an opportunity to explain, because sometimes I just overreacted. And then I work really, really hard on just thinking, “OK, they didn’t like it, but that’s OK.” There’s a lot of different people in the world and just because they don’t like it, doesn’t mean that it’s not good. But mostly, I just curl up in a ball and cry. But I’m working on that, and I think a lot of our listeners feel that way too.

Michelle: [00:24:02] Gabe, I think we need to understand that we have to learn how to make our selves happy before we try to be happy for other people. How happy are you right now?

Gabe: [00:24:17] I am content. I’m content with my life. I feel safe. I feel secure. I love my wife. My family is good. I have a great show. I have a good career and my dog is nice. I would not say that I am happy. I would say that I am content and I think that’s the thing. I think from the outside looking in, a lot of people would be like, “Wow, if this guy isn’t happy with all the stuff that he has, he is never going to be happy” And that’s really my point. I think that a lot of us are really unhappy because we make ourselves miserable trying to get to some other mythical level. Or we need our medications changed and we need to work with our doctors. But I think that people with mental illness could be happier. I think we sabotage ourselves and I don’t know how to get out of the rut except by talking about it honestly. And I would venture to guess that a lot of our listeners feel the same as we do. They feel miserable, and they don’t know why, and that’s the point. If you don’t know why you’re miserable, then you’re probably not. You’re probably OK. You’re probably sabotaging your own happiness and that’s really messed up. Stop it there. We’ve just fixed all the depressed people Michelle, tell ’em to stop it.

Michelle: [00:25:27] Stop it. Just just stop sabotaging your own happiness, I guess.  According to Gabe, you are sabotaging your happiness.

Gabe: [00:25:35] I think that it is something to consider.

Michelle: [00:25:37] I think that I am happy. I don’t think I’m sad or angry. I don’t think anything like that. I mean, I know I’m not 100 percent happy all the time. But in my life, I’m much happier than I was five years ago ,for sure.

Gabe: [00:25:53] Michelle, I always love debating happiness with you. So thank you, everybody, for listening to A Bipolar, a Schizophrenic, and a Podcast. Remember to review us on iTunes. Leave a comment. Share this episode. Make Gabe and Michelle famous because that is just so important! And we’ll see everybody next week.

Michelle: [00:26:13] Happy!

Announcer: [00:26:16] You’ve been listening to A Bipolar, a Schizophrenic, and a Podcast. If you love this episode, don’t keep it to yourself. Head on over to iTunes or your preferred podcast app to subscribe, rate, and review. To work with Gabe, go to GabeHoward.com. To work with Michelle, go to schizophrenic.NYC. For free mental health resources and online support groups, head over to PsychCentral.com. The show’s official web site is PsychCentral.com/BSP. You can e-mail us at show@PsychCentral.com. Thank you for listening and share widely.

  Meet Your Bipolar and Schizophrenic Hosts

GABE HOWARD was formally diagnosed with bipolar and anxiety disorders after being committed to a psychiatric hospital in 2003. Now in recovery, Gabe is a prominent mental health activist and host of the award-winning Psych Central Show podcast. He is also an award-winning writer and speaker, traveling nationally to share the humorous, yet educational, story of his bipolar life. To work with Gabe, visit gabehoward.com.

  MICHELLE HAMMER was officially diagnosed with schizophrenia at age 22, but incorrectly diagnosed with bipolar disorder at 18. Michelle is an award-winning mental health advocate who has been featured in press all over the world. In May 2015, Michelle founded the company Schizophrenic.NYC, a mental health clothing line, with the mission of reducing stigma by starting conversations about mental health. She is a firm believer that confidence can get you anywhere. To work with Michelle, visit Schizophrenic.NYC.

from World of Psychology https://ift.tt/2rvF9ZG via theshiningmind.com

[psychotherapyconsultants]

Podcast: Can People With Mental Illness Be Happy?



Those of us with mental illness are asked many questions about our feelings. For a lot of us, the most difficult one to answer is, “Are you happy?” It’s a difficult question to answer because happiness isn’t an easily defined concept. Most people assume that in order to be in recovery from mental illness a person must be happy. But is that really the case?

Listen in to this episode to hear our thoughts on happiness, regret, and even a side story about Gabe’s first marriage.

  SUBSCRIBE & REVIEW

“People just want to be happy and normal, but there is no actual definition of either.” – Michelle Hammer

  Highlights From ‘Happiness’ Episode

[1:00] Gabe & Michelle discuss happiness and mental illness.

[3:30] The most annoying questions we have ever been asked.

[5:00] Gabe’s story of never being satisfied with his life.

[10:00] What makes Michelle unhappy.

[12:00] What makes Gabe unhappy.

[17:00] Do people try to ruin our happiness? – A discussion.

[19:00] Michelle says she has confidence – but does she?

[23:00] Dealing with mental illness and negativity.

Computer Generated Transcript for ‘Can People With Mental Illness Be Happy?’ Show

Editor’s Note: Please be mindful that this transcript has been computer generated and therefore may contain inaccuracies and grammar errors. Thank you.

Announcer: [00:00:07] For reasons that utterly escape everyone involved, you’re listening to A Bipolar, a Schizophrenic, and a Podcast. Here are your hosts, Gabe Howard and Michelle Hammer.

Gabe: [00:00:19] Welcome to A Bipolar, a Schizophrenic, and a Podcast. My name is Gabe and I have bipolar.

Michelle: [00:00:25] I’m Michelle and I’m schizophrenic.

Gabe: [00:00:27] You are straight up schizo.

Gabe: [00:00:29] Apparently I am. That’s what the doctors say.

Gabe: [00:00:31] Michelle, one of the questions that people living with mental illness get asked, pretty much ad nauseum, is, “Are you happy?” Do people ask you this?

Michelle: [00:00:40] Yeah. I think so, yeah.

Gabe: [00:00:41] There’s a bunch of them. “Are you OK?” “How are you feeling?”  “Are you doing OK?”.

Michelle: [00:00:45] I hate that one. “So how are you doing? Like on a personal level? Like, how are you personally?” You know.

Gabe: [00:00:53] They’re asking if we’re happy. I’m not saying that’s necessarily a bad question. I mean, they want to know if we’re OK.  And the way that we, as a society, gauge “okay” is if we’re content, if we’re happy, if we’re not sad. I mean, it’s not an unfair question, right? I mean, do we really want to get mad at people for making sure that we’re content?  Or that we’re happy?

Michelle: [00:01:13] I feel like people have ulterior motives sometimes when they ask you if you’re happy.

Gabe: [00:01:18] Like what?

Michelle: [00:01:19] They want to see if you could actually be happy.

Gabe: [00:01:22] So you think it’s like a gotcha question?

Michelle: [00:01:23] Sometimes.

Gabe: [00:01:23] Really?

Michelle: [00:01:24] They’re like, “Are you happy?”

Gabe: [00:01:26] I feel like maybe you’re hanging out with mean people. Nobody has ever asked me if I’m okay or if I’m happy so that they can trick me. I mean how would that go? “Gabe, are you happy?” Yes. “Aha! I have fooled you, you none-bipolar liar!” That’s kind of weird, you have to admit.

Michelle: [00:01:41] Whatever.

Gabe: [00:01:42] One of the reasons we want to do this episode is because, 1) there’s, like, 5 questions that people with mental illness gets asked constantly.  You know – “Have you taken your meds?”  “Are you doing okay?” “How are you feeling?” “Are you happy?”  The “are you happy?” one handcuffs me.

Michelle: [00:01:56] Why?

Gabe: [00:01:57] Because, I don’t know. I mean, how do you define happiness? You know our “Define Normal” initiative?

Michelle: [00:02:03] Yeah.

Gabe: [00:02:04] Where everybody gave a different answer for what “normal” was. Yet it’s something that’s thrown around by our society constantly.

Michelle: [00:02:13] Mmm-hmm.

Gabe: [00:02:13] I think if we asked a hundred different people what it means to be happy, we’d get 100 different answers. So when people say to me, “Are you happy?” I have no earthly idea.

Michelle: [00:02:24] Good point. And do you think anyone would actually say, “Yes, I am happy” and feel like they’re telling the truth or feel like they’re lying?

Gabe: [00:02:33] This is something that kind of keeps me up at night. Allow me to explain: Let’s say that you said right now, “Gabe, are you happy?” I would say, “Yes. My friend Michelle is here and our podcast is doing very well.” And then somebody would say, “Well, but I mean, how could you be happy? I mean, you have a debilitating disease and there’s so much suffering in the world?  And I mean really! You’re happy with the homeless people that might die from coldness? And what about all the hungry children?” “Oh. Well, I’m not happy about that.” “Really? You’re not happy!?! Your friend Michelle was here!” Where does this end?

Michelle: [00:03:10] The never ending nonsense circle.

Gabe: [00:03:14] Michelle, how do you define “happy.”

Michelle: [00:03:17] How would I define “happy?”

Gabe: [00:03:19] Yes, that’s the question. Why do you keep repeating the question?

Michelle: [00:03:21] I’m thinking of my answer for defining “happy.” Well, how would I define happy? Not being able to get rid of a huge smile on my face.

Gabe: [00:03:32] Okay, so you’re never happy. You’re never smiling. You always look constantly pissed off. So I don’t think that’s true. I really don’t, because I know that you’re not constantly pissed off. You just have resting angry face.

Michelle: [00:03:45] I don’t have resting angry face. That’s just around you.

Gabe: [00:03:48] Okay. Well, you have Gabe angry face. Oh my God! You have GAF!

Michelle: [00:03:54] Shut up.

Gabe: [00:03:55] See, now you’re mean to me. So I’m clearly not happy now.

Michelle: [00:03:58] Good. Are you happy?

Gabe: [00:03:59] No.

Michelle: [00:04:00] Did you take your meds today?

Gabe: [00:04:03] One, yes-

Michelle: [00:04:03] How are you doing?

Gabe: [00:04:04] I’m good, I’m fine.

Michelle: [00:04:06] Are you sure? Are you well?

Gabe: [00:04:08] Well, there’s another one. Now hang on a second-

Michelle: [00:04:10] How’s your work? Do you have a job?

Gabe: [00:04:11] Ugh…okay.

Michelle: [00:04:12] Wow, you have a job? Are you able to work?

Gabe: [00:04:14] Oh, you’re killing me.

Michelle: [00:04:15] Are you on disability?

Gabe: [00:04:16] You’re killing me.  No. No. Not that there’s anything wrong with that-

Michelle: [00:04:18] Do you live with your parents?

Gabe: [00:04:19] No.

Michelle: [00:04:20] Do you have any kids?

Gabe: [00:04:21] No.

Michelle: [00:04:21] Do you plan on getting married?

Gabe: [00:04:23] I am married.

Michelle: [00:04:24] Really? Wow! Does she like you a lot?

Gabe: [00:04:29] No, I’m bipolar. I think happiness has, like, moving goalposts. My Uncle Jack was a really cool guy. He passed away many years ago, but I really liked him a lot when I was younger. Because he talked to me like an adult. He recognized that I had intelligence beyond my years. So here’s this old guy, and he’s talking to a 14 year-old about, you know, adult subject matter. And a lot of adults were uneasy about this, but he wasn’t. And one of the things that he told me is that when it came to money, the perfect amount of money to make was 50 dollars more than you were currently making. And his point was that it didn’t matter how much money you had, you were always fifty dollars away from having something else. And when he said this to me, I thought, “You’re nuts.” If I have, let’s say, fifty thousand dollars. Now this was 30 years ago, but I thought, if I made fifty thousand dollars a year I would be happy. I would be perfectly happy with that kind of money. And then, when I made that kind of money I wasn’t happy with it. And then I made eighty thousand dollars a year, and I wasn’t happy with that. And then I made a hundred thousand dollars a year and I wasn’t happy with that.

Michelle: [00:05:39] All that’s coming through, Gabe, is that you need to give me some money.

Gabe: [00:05:45] That’s the takeaway?

Michelle: [00:05:47] That’s it. The takeaway is that you need to give me some money.

Gabe: [00:05:49] I think the takeaway is that I think that’s how happiness works.

Michelle: [00:05:53] Well, happiness comes with money.

Gabe: [00:05:54] No. No, I think that-

Michelle: [00:05:56] Mo’ money, mo’ problems.

Gabe: [00:05:58] Well, mo’ happiness, mo’ problems.

Michelle: [00:06:00] What? Continue your story.

Gabe: [00:06:08] Thanks, Michelle. When I was really, really, really sick –  I mean really sick, like not showering for days at a time, laying in my own filth, not leaving the house, planning on dying, trying to will myself to death – I would lay there and I’d think, “If I could just get out of bed I’d be happy.” And I meant it, I wasn’t lying. It wasn’t a joke. I just thought that if I could just get up, if I could just take a shower, if I could just wash my hair, then I would be happy. But that’s not the mark of happiness. Now I get up every morning, I take a shower, I wash my hair, I get dressed, and I leave the house, and that doesn’t make me happy.  That’s the lowest bar possible. That’s just an expectation at this point. But every time I achieve something – like remember when we started the podcast? We started the podcast and I was like, “Michelle, I’ll be happy when we have X number of listeners per week.” Do you remember that?

Michelle: [00:07:08] Uh-huh.

Gabe: [00:07:08] You were there, and I said, “That will make me happy!”  Well, we surpassed that months ago and I’m still unhappy. I’m unhappy that we didn’t grow month to month. I’m unhappy that one episode dipped. I’m unhappy that one whatever.  So, happiness is just this nebulous concept that you can’t put your finger on, and all of us are chasing it like it’s meaningful. Like it has meaning. We want to be happy, but none of us can define it. And even when we define it, once we get there we just redefine it.

Michelle: [00:07:41] It’s just interesting that people just want to be happy and normal, yet there’s really no such thing as happy and normal. Nobody is happy and normal.

Gabe: [00:07:53] I think that nobody is happy or normal because, again, there’s just no definition for it. I think that, depending on what the definition is, either nobody is happy and normal or everybody is happy and normal.

Michelle: [00:08:06] Yeah, I mean, there’s always, like, things that can make you happy.  But it’s not like a lifelong happiness.

Gabe: [00:08:12] You know what makes me happy?

Michelle: [00:08:13] Your dog?

Gabe: [00:08:14] When you’re ready to record on time.

Michelle: [00:08:15] OK.

Gabe: [00:08:15] And my dog. I really like my dog.

Michelle: [00:08:18] Yeah. I mean, your dog makes me happy, but I mean I don’t like and when he cries and stuff. It’s sad.

Gabe: [00:08:24] Why does he cry? Wait, why are you making my dog cry?

Michelle: [00:08:26] Your dog cries all the time! We walked in the house, and your dog was crying.

Gabe: [00:08:29] Because he wanted you to play with him! Did you play with him?

Michelle: [00:08:33] No.

Gabe: [00:08:33] So you just walked in the house and ignored him and just went about your business.

Michelle: [00:08:37] Yes.

Gabe: [00:08:37] Wow! You ignored a crying puppy.

Michelle: [00:08:40] He was in his crate.  I didn’t want to let him out of the crate.

Gabe: [00:08:41] You left him when he was trapped in a crate.

Michelle: [00:08:44] You let him out of the crate, so shut up!

Gabe: [00:08:47] I did let him out.

Michelle: [00:08:48] You’re not funny.

Gabe: [00:08:48] I’m a little bit funny.

Michelle: [00:08:50] No.

Gabe: [00:08:51] I’m not?

Michelle: [00:08:52] Your jokes make me unhappy.

Gabe: [00:08:55] Can you define “jokes?”.

Michelle: [00:08:56] Nothing you say.

Gabe: [00:08:59] That’s actually an excellent question, though. Because “jokes” has a definition. The word joke has a definition. It’s something that makes people laugh. Right?

Michelle: [00:09:07] Uh-huh

Gabe: [00:09:07] OK cool. So if I tell a joke and you laugh, but John doesn’t laugh, does that mean I told you a joke? But I didn’t tell John a joke? Even though I said the same thing to both of you at the exact same time?

Michelle: [00:09:23] Well, maybe John didn’t think it was as funny.

Gabe: [00:09:25] So it’s still a joke?

Michelle: [00:09:27] It was a joke, but it wasn’t funny to everybody.

Gabe: [00:09:32] So you can be happy with something but maybe somebody else who had the same thing wouldn’t be happy?

Michelle: [00:09:37] Right.

Gabe: [00:09:38] Is it possible that people like us, people with mental illness – especially people with depression side of it -, is it possible that we are happy? We just trick ourselves into thinking that we’re not?

Michelle: [00:09:49] I think maybe we dwell too much on the things that make us unhappy.

Gabe: [00:09:53] What are some things that you dwell on that make you unhappy?

Michelle: [00:09:56] Oh goodness! Past experiences with people that just did not go well. Arguments, fights embarrassments, that just go around in my head. Where I wish I did things differently or I wasn’t sure what was going on. Basically just things I wish I could have changed but that I can’t change now just get under my skin.

Gabe: [00:10:22] So you live with a lot of regret?

Michelle: [00:10:24] Mmm-hmmm

Gabe: [00:10:24] And you think that that regret is making you unhappy?

Michelle: [00:10:28] Yes.

Gabe: [00:10:28] Now, the things that you regret happened in the past. So clearly time travel is not a thing?

Michelle: [00:10:34] Mm hmm.

Gabe: [00:10:34] So you can’t go back and fix it?

Michelle: [00:10:36] Right.

Gabe: [00:10:36] So it’s ruining your present even though it happened in the past? And we’re going to assume that it’s going to ruin your future, even though it happened in the past?

Michelle: [00:10:44] Right.

Gabe: [00:10:45] So you’re literally wrecking your entire life because of something that you regret, that happened a while ago, that you cannot change or fix?

Michelle: [00:10:50] Well, how do I get it to go away?

Gabe: [00:10:52] Well, that’s a fair question. How do you get it to go away? Could you make amends?

Michelle: [00:10:56] No. No.

Gabe: [00:10:57] Like, not ever? You’re just stuck with it?

Michelle: [00:10:59] Yeah. Yeah.

Gabe: [00:11:00] What about radical acceptance? What about like thinking, “Look I accepted that I did this, I accepted it was wrong, and I accept it that I won’t do it again.  And therefore I forgive myself?”

Michelle: [00:11:10] Some things weren’t really my fault.

Gabe: [00:11:11] Then why do you regret them? And why are you unhappy about them?

Michelle: [00:11:14] Because things sometimes are just unfair.

Gabe: [00:11:17] So you’re upset about things that aren’t fair?

Michelle: [00:11:20] Yeah.

Gabe: [00:11:21] So you’re unhappy about something that’s unfair, that you had no control over at the time, and you certainly don’t have any control over now? Because, again, time travel is not a thing?

Michelle: [00:11:29] Yes.

Gabe: [00:11:31] That’s nuts! Hold that thought, Michelle.  We’re going to step away to hear from our sponsors.

2nd Announcer: [00:11:37] This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp.com. Secure, convenient, and affordable online counseling. All counselors are licensed, accredited professionals. Anything you share is confidential. Schedule secure video or phone sessions, plus chat and text with your therapist, whenever you feel it’s needed. A month of online therapy often costs less than a single traditional face-to-face session go to BetterHelp.com/PsychCentral and experience seven days of free therapy to see if online counseling is right for you. BetterHelp.com/PsychCentral.

Gabe: [00:12:09] And we are back discussing happiness.

Michelle: [00:12:12] Well, we just got to all the roots of my problems.  Gabe, thank you so much. And I can’t change the past and it won’t get out of my head.

Gabe: [00:12:22] I feel the exact same way. I’m still upset about how my first marriage ended. And I’m still upset about how my second marriage ended. I am now worried constantly about how my third marriage will end, because all marriages end. I mean, they either end in death or divorce. So there’s not good odds either way.  You’re kind of SOL there. But the things that I did in my past, some of them I was able to make up for. As you know, my second wife and I – you know she’s my bestie. She’s my BFF, and I’ve apologized to her, and I’ve told her I was sorry. And we still fight about this stuff, because we’re very immature as people. But, I think there’s a level of forgiveness there. But my first wife will not forgive me. She  – flat out.

Michelle: [00:13:09] What did you do to her?

Gabe: [00:13:09] Well I married her. That was bad.

Michelle: [00:13:12] It was bad to marry her? That’s what she said?

Gabe: [00:13:14] It turns out that women don’t really like being married to untreated bi-polars. I had no idea.

Michelle: [00:13:20] Was it your fault for marrying her? She said yes. She said I do. How is that your fault?

Gabe: [00:13:28] I…

Michelle: [00:13:29] Didn’t she know that you were an untreated bipolar?

Gabe: [00:13:31] No.

Michelle: [00:13:31] She didn’t?

Gabe: [00:13:33] None of us did.

Michelle: [00:13:34] Oh.

Gabe: [00:13:34] I didn’t get diagnosed with bipolar until after she left. That was one of the things that led me down the suicide path, her leaving. I wrecked my job, my marriage, my house, my home life, I was an embarrassment to my parents. She picked up and left and I was just like, “Fuck it! I want to die!” And I got lucky. I know that sounds weird, but me being suicidal and instituting a suicide plan and being so depressed and so messed up, that’s what led somebody see how sick I was and take me to the emergency room.

Michelle: [00:14:07] She should forgive you, though. Don’t you think?

Gabe: [00:14:10] I would like to think that she would, but she believes that I’m faking bipolar in order to con people for money.

Michelle: [00:14:17] Are you serious?

Gabe: [00:14:18] That’s not something you can make up.

Michelle: [00:14:22] Okay, I don’t really like her that much anymore.

Gabe: [00:14:24] I can’t feel that way. It would be easy if I could say that. I do think that she should consider everything that I went through, and should consider that I was in a psychiatric ward, and on, and on.

Michelle: [00:14:35] Here’s what I don’t understand-

Gabe: [00:14:36] I don’t know why she doesn’t believe in mental illness but she doesn’t.

Michelle: [00:14:38] If she was with you, and she saw you acting like you were acting, so much that she left, and then you happen to end up in the psych ward, wouldn’t she have said, “Oh, that makes a lot of sense!”?

Gabe: [00:14:53] No. She thought that I was faking because she believes that mentally ill people look a certain way. She believes that mentally ill people can’t be intelligent, they can’t hold down jobs. They rock back and forth and they drool. She believes in a very stereotypical version of mental illness.

Michelle: [00:15:06] She’s a bitch.

Gabe: [00:15:07] No, she’s not. And that’s the thing, I did hurt her. Do you know how many times I flew into a blind rage and just started screaming? I would be up for two, three, maybe four, days at a time and not come home. And I would just go out and fuck everything that moved. That not something that you can do to somebody and not give them long lasting emotional scars. I was her husband, and I let her down. I broke her trust, and we can discuss until we’re blue in the face that I did this because I had bipolar disorder, and some of that is true. But the bottom line is, she doesn’t want to forgive me. And that’s up to her, and I have to live with that. I would love to take your tact and just thin, “Yep, bitch!”  But I can’t. I wronged her. The end.

Michelle: [00:15:50] Do you want her in your life?

Gabe: [00:15:54] No, I want her not to be mad at me. It would alleviate alleviate my guilt if she was no longer mad at me, because I feel like I have caused her pain and unhappiness that is going to span her lifetime. Because she spent five years married to me, and that’s a lot I would hate to think that because somebody knew me, their life was worse. And that’s what we have. Because she knew me, her life is worse. That’s hard. It’s hard to know that I made somebody’s life worse. And that makes me unhappy.

Michelle: [00:16:32] I mean, I think I’ve given people challenges while they dealt with me. But I wouldn’t say I’ve made people’s lives worse. Maybe made it more interesting at times, I don’t know.

Gabe: [00:16:47] I have certainly made people’s lives more “interesting” at times, as well. But the big regret I have, and something that keeps me from being happy, is the way that I treated other people. And while it is true that bipolar disorder played a part in it, it wasn’t all bipolar disorder. It factored in, but I was an asshole.

Michelle: [00:17:09] I mean, at least now you know to apologize.

Gabe: [00:17:11] Yes. Yes.

Michelle: [00:17:12] You know, at least you’re not still on that track, yelling at her.  Being a horrible person. You know to apologize.

Gabe: [00:17:19] Yes, I was an incredibly bad husband.

Michelle: [00:17:21] Do you ever think people are trying to ruin your happiness?

Gabe: [00:17:24] That’s an interesting one as well, because, 1) yes, I absolutely think that people are trying to ruin my happiness.  But I also think, just as strongly, that I am not happy. So that’s kind of messed up. How can somebody both be trying to ruin my happiness and I’m not happy at the same time? But yet in my brain that completely tracks.

Michelle: [00:17:43] I feel like it’s very high school. Like when people try to ruin your happiness. Like, you might come in and you have the coolest shirt on and cool shoes. “Hi, guys. How are you doing? I like my new stuff here.” And everyone just kind of looks you and says, “Oh, okay, you got new clothes and new shoes? Oh, yeah. OK. Good for you.” Like they’re jealous. People get jealous of things. You know what I’m trying to say? 

Gabe: [00:18:03] I do.

Michelle: [00:18:03] High school stuff. Like you when I get a new haircut and then everyone just has to say it’s ugly, you know?

Gabe: [00:18:09] I mean, your hair is not great.

Michelle: [00:18:11] I’m just saying.

Gabe: [00:18:11] And also, that’s not a really cool shirt. And your shoes are kind of dollar store, but whatever, you do you.

Michelle: [00:18:18] That’s what I’m trying to say, though. That’s my point.

Gabe: [00:18:20] But does that pettiness bother you?

Michelle: [00:18:22] People do sometimes try to ruin other people’s happiness to make themselves feel better.

Gabe: [00:18:26] You buy new shoes and you are happy with the new shoes and then somebody says, “I hate those shoes.” Does it take any of your happiness away? I mean, honestly?  If you’re being honest? Does Michelle Hammer get sad or lose happiness if somebody calls her shoes ugly?

Michelle: [00:18:40] Me now? No way. Me 15 years ago? Absolutely.

Gabe: [00:18:47] But there’s still stuff that people can say to you that hurts your feelings?

Michelle: [00:18:52] Yes.

Gabe: [00:18:52] I just find that incredibly hard to believe. Because when I see you, I see somebody with so much confidence. You have guts that I can not quantify into words. You once yelled out “cock ring” in the middle of a crowded hotel lobby. Dude, do you know how much guts that takes? Like, for real? It was just a ballsy thing to do. You were loud, and brash, and amazing, and I remember when we met, I thought, “Oh my God, she needs to a) stop and b) continue.” And that just, like, wrestled in my brain. And it’s one of the reasons that I wanted to work with you, because it was just so incredibly engaging. But the more that I get to know you, and the more that we talk, and the more we prepare for shows, do shows, write, travel etc.. You know, I’ve gotten to know you. Know the softer side of Michelle.

Michelle: [00:19:47] The softer side (singing).

Gabe: [00:19:48] But you actually kind of have a confidence issue, don’t you?

Michelle: [00:19:53] I don’t have a confidence issue. I just don’t like when I feel like people are just giving me unsolicited advice.

Gabe: [00:20:01] Well, but that’s what I’m saying. Iff you were 100 percent confident in your actions, you would just tune all of them out. It hurts your feelings, the things that people say. Sometimes people post comments on the Internet. Literal strangers, and you call me up, and you’re upset. You’re angry or you’re just like, “Well, what is wrong with them? Why are they saying this? Why do they say I’m not schizophrenic? How would they know? Because I have purple?” You were really really bothered by that. When that lady said, “There are too many colors. So you can’t be schizophrenic.”

Michelle: [00:20:31] Because that just annoys me so much! Because then it makes me seem like a liar. And the last thing I want to be perceived as is a liar. I am not a liar. I don’t want anyone thinking that I’m a liar, and I don’t want anyone thinking that they can’t create art like mine because it is “too many colors.” That’s just a weird stereotype, or, you know, that’s a stereotype or that person just made it up.

Gabe: [00:20:54] Are you really not going to admit that your feelings were hurt?

Michelle: [00:20:56] I was just baffled and then my feelings were hurt. It was just kind of like, “Who is this idiot trying to say they know more about schizophrenia than a person who has schizophrenia!?!”

Gabe: [00:21:06] Allegedly.

Michelle: [00:21:08] Oh, yeah. Allegedly. It just, you know-

Gabe: [00:21:12] Who hurts your feelings, Michelle? Like, whose opinion is so important to you that if they are negative toward you it ruins your whole day? For me it would be my wife. My wife, and my friends, and my mom. There’s like five people that what they think of me matters so intensely, that if I am happy and they say something mean to me it wrecks my whole day. Who in your life can do that? Who can take your happiness and just flip it upside down?

Michelle: [00:21:40] No one.

Gabe: [00:21:41] Really? So you’re telling me, that if your phone rang right now and your mom said, “God, you suck at podcasting!” You would just be like, “whatever” and it wouldn’t bother you one iota?

Michelle: [00:21:52] I’d just tell her to stop listening.

Gabe: [00:21:55] You lie. You lie so much. It would hurt your feelings.

Michelle: [00:22:00] Does your mom say that to you?

Gabe: [00:22:03] No! God, no! We have a great podcast. But, I’m saying if she did, it would hurt my feelings.

Michelle: [00:22:08] Hmmmm.

Gabe: [00:22:08] If my mom told me my podcast sucked, I would be sad. I would be upset for the rest of the day.

Michelle: [00:22:12] I mean, she’s insulted me way more times than that. So it’s really not that big a deal.

Gabe: [00:22:16] And it hurt your feelings! Admit it! Admit that it hurts your feelings. It’s OK that your mother can hurt your feelings. She’s your mom. I’m just trying to say that there are people in our lives whose opinions are so important to us that they can turn us on a dime. And I wish that those people would be more careful with our feelings, because we’re struggling with a lot. But we can’t control them. And that’s really what I’m trying to say – we can’t control their behavior. You can’t make your mom, and I can’t make my mom, or my friends, or you, or me, be nicer to us. We just can’t. So what I try to do is control my own emotions. I wish that I could be like the person that you’re pretending to be where I just don’t care that somebody insulted me. I don’t care. Fuck them. But I’m not. I’m not that guy. When people insult me, when people say mean things, it hurts me it hurts my feelings deeply and genuinely. And I will ruminate on it for days, it means that much to me. And I wish I could make that go away. And that’s what I work on every day. If there was something that I was still working on in therapy, it would be that. And I’ve gotten a lot better. We’ve gotten a lot better at cutting toxic people out of our lives, which we’ve discussed in previous episodes. I’ve gotten better at asking people follow up questions, so that way when they do hurt my feelings, I make sure that that’s what they meant. And I give them an opportunity to explain, because sometimes I just overreacted. And then I work really, really hard on just thinking, “OK, they didn’t like it, but that’s OK.” There’s a lot of different people in the world and just because they don’t like it, doesn’t mean that it’s not good. But mostly, I just curl up in a ball and cry. But I’m working on that, and I think a lot of our listeners feel that way too.

Michelle: [00:24:02] Gabe, I think we need to understand that we have to learn how to make our selves happy before we try to be happy for other people. How happy are you right now?

Gabe: [00:24:17] I am content. I’m content with my life. I feel safe. I feel secure. I love my wife. My family is good. I have a great show. I have a good career and my dog is nice. I would not say that I am happy. I would say that I am content and I think that’s the thing. I think from the outside looking in, a lot of people would be like, “Wow, if this guy isn’t happy with all the stuff that he has, he is never going to be happy” And that’s really my point. I think that a lot of us are really unhappy because we make ourselves miserable trying to get to some other mythical level. Or we need our medications changed and we need to work with our doctors. But I think that people with mental illness could be happier. I think we sabotage ourselves and I don’t know how to get out of the rut except by talking about it honestly. And I would venture to guess that a lot of our listeners feel the same as we do. They feel miserable, and they don’t know why, and that’s the point. If you don’t know why you’re miserable, then you’re probably not. You’re probably OK. You’re probably sabotaging your own happiness and that’s really messed up. Stop it there. We’ve just fixed all the depressed people Michelle, tell ’em to stop it.

Michelle: [00:25:27] Stop it. Just just stop sabotaging your own happiness, I guess.  According to Gabe, you are sabotaging your happiness.

Gabe: [00:25:35] I think that it is something to consider.

Michelle: [00:25:37] I think that I am happy. I don’t think I’m sad or angry. I don’t think anything like that. I mean, I know I’m not 100 percent happy all the time. But in my life, I’m much happier than I was five years ago ,for sure.

Gabe: [00:25:53] Michelle, I always love debating happiness with you. So thank you, everybody, for listening to A Bipolar, a Schizophrenic, and a Podcast. Remember to review us on iTunes. Leave a comment. Share this episode. Make Gabe and Michelle famous because that is just so important! And we’ll see everybody next week.

Michelle: [00:26:13] Happy!

Announcer: [00:26:16] You’ve been listening to A Bipolar, a Schizophrenic, and a Podcast. If you love this episode, don’t keep it to yourself. Head on over to iTunes or your preferred podcast app to subscribe, rate, and review. To work with Gabe, go to GabeHoward.com. To work with Michelle, go to schizophrenic.NYC. For free mental health resources and online support groups, head over to PsychCentral.com. The show’s official web site is PsychCentral.com/BSP. You can e-mail us at show@PsychCentral.com. Thank you for listening and share widely.

  Meet Your Bipolar and Schizophrenic Hosts

GABE HOWARD was formally diagnosed with bipolar and anxiety disorders after being committed to a psychiatric hospital in 2003. Now in recovery, Gabe is a prominent mental health activist and host of the award-winning Psych Central Show podcast. He is also an award-winning writer and speaker, traveling nationally to share the humorous, yet educational, story of his bipolar life. To work with Gabe, visit gabehoward.com.

  MICHELLE HAMMER was officially diagnosed with schizophrenia at age 22, but incorrectly diagnosed with bipolar disorder at 18. Michelle is an award-winning mental health advocate who has been featured in press all over the world. In May 2015, Michelle founded the company Schizophrenic.NYC, a mental health clothing line, with the mission of reducing stigma by starting conversations about mental health. She is a firm believer that confidence can get you anywhere. To work with Michelle, visit Schizophrenic.NYC.

from World of Psychology https://psychcentral.com/blog/podcast-can-people-with-mental-illness-be-happy/