#I love lucanis and neve together

[taashyvashedan]

Like the writing was really good in this game and it’s so frustrating watching people be like “I didn’t get special attention from a character because it’s not a perma horny game so writing baaaaaaaaaaad”

Characters are allowed to be characters. To be fleshed out and have fulfilling relationships outside 'you' the player. I know, we love our blorbos and whatever...but it's not that deep.

Maybe Rook is too distracted to actually put real bonding time into their romantic relationships. Maybe Rook being a boss is an intimidating power dynamic that makes their partner hesitant. Maybe connections are stronger with other people.

I'll just say, the way I connected with my first ever GF, is very different from how I interact and connect with my partner NOW. What is okay with one partner, doesn't mean it'll be okay with the next. The jokes, physical connections, and love languages all have grown and shifted. That's how relationships work.

Some of ya'll really need to understand relationships are complex. And that BioWare doesn't have it out personally for you because so and so companion didn't fall to their knees in co-dependant agony worshiping your Rook.

[hauntedgarden95]

did I start my Valerian playthrough over so I can record every time they say “Neve Gallus” so I can hear it progress as they accidentally fall for each other?

Maybe

[winterfromtevinter]

All of the hate for Neve re Lucanis from his fans is sooooo weird. Sorry she's beautiful and funny and -

[icharchivist]

sometimes i forget people didn't read the books and don't know Illario was extremely dumbed down in Veilguard, and i see takes and i have a double take like "well no that's not true he's not l--" and then i remember that i have a total different understanding of Illario than someone who only played the game because I consider Book!Illario better and have a very complicated headcanons to try to connect Book!Illario and Game!Illario together but if i had a choice i'd disregard Game!Illario in a fucking heardbeat

and then i see takes based solly on his Game characterization and i get scandalized for a second before the grief of "right the Game made 0 effort with this character" really hits me and i feel sad again

[stinkrascal]

so does emmrich... like...... live inside the necropolis? do you think he has a fancy house down there? a garden? a backyard??? are there sidewalks? does he have a hoa. how does this work

[vaguely-concerned]

I've been trying to figure out a dynamic between neve and rye that I find more compelling, because right now there's not much of anything there for me to sink my little teeth into. but I think I've landed on something delicious with the idea that especially after minrathous gets fucked, rye looks at neve and sees myrna -- someone he feels he keeps letting down horribly no matter how hard he tries not to and can't quite achieve the approval of/connection with that he wishes so it's better to just pull away completely and disengage rather than stay in that unshifting shame. neve is (very understandably) measured and distant with him after what happened, and he's flashing back to his student days of myrna gazing at the perpetually hungover heartbroken heap of a person of him on the other side of her desk every time he missed the deadline of a paper or project like '...can we at least both agree that this is. a bit disappointing. especially considering your potential.' (and him all smudged black eyeshadow and numb ruefulness being like 'sure that's a very kind way to put it myrna thank you'.)

aside from the 'if I let him get too deeply into this he'll go the way of brom and it'll be all my fault (again)' element, neve thinks rye is dismissing her and her city/being a bit callous in the same way he was after varric's death (listen. how fucking wild must rook's reaction to losing a beloved mentor seem to the rest of the crew who aren't seeing the blood magic paper doll ghost varric the whole time, especially those who got to see them interact. you WOULD think 'there's something wrong with this guy. putting the job first is one thing just not seeming to react at all is another this is fucking freaky', wouldn't you, especially after seeing the warmth in that dynamic in action beforehand.) perfect storm of two people who grit their teeth and turn inwards in pain deciding that not talking about it is their best bet (NEWSFLASH: IT ISN'T) lmao

(rye spent his last year of watcher training on a mostly joyless bender and then got it together enough to finish the eternal orb project last moment in a fevered near-sleepless week instead of the half a year that was intended. emmrich is both astounded and distressed to hear this. "a week? but -- but that is an astounding accomplishment rook!! and also why in the maker's good light would you ever do that to yourself?" ("well you see there was no one to stop me from doing it like that but me. and under those conditions these things tend to happen".) rye was working through/looking up stuff around transitioning and doing every kind of OTHER high level watcher research through that whole time, but ultimately he's an excellent watcher and a terrible student, at least under traditional methods. adhd from here to the fucking moon. touched by something akin to divine inspiration in moments of high tension that pulls all the threads into one coherent unbreakable cord, a bit of a frayed mess in most other settings. in our world he'd be dropping out of a masters program at the very last hurdle in this moment maker bless and protect him)

[crossdressingdeath]

Rook: Wait. Did you make dessert just for me? Lucanis: There's enough for everyone. Rook: As long as they don't mind having it with my favourite drink. Lucanis: They won't complain. Rook: You didn't have to do anything special for me. Lucanis: Yes, I did. I still don't know how to apologize for... everything. And you... Rook: You made dessert! Just for me! Lucanis: It's nothing. Or not enough. Rook: It is. And you are. And I'll have you know, I'm very easily bribed. Lucanis: I'll keep that in mind.

ROMANCE LOCKED IN. Although I won't lie, it's kind of funny to me that the lock in for Lucanis's romance does not involve any clear discussion of romantic feelings. I'm told Emmrich's romance at least actually involves a proper talk about your feelings at the lock in point and here's Lucanis expressing emotions through cooking. Which is very cute and romantic, don't get me wrong, but also... hey uh guys this isn't actually a declaration of feelings. There also aren't any kisses, this is it. Mechanically it's locked in but in-universe they Have Not Discussed It. Which also makes the fact that this is where the romance banter starts triggering kind of hilarious. It's never been discussed but everyone knows it's a thing anyway!

To be very clear none of this is a complaint, I am loving the slow burn, it's just also a little funny to me. Tune into the next romance scene where presumably they will actually discuss their feelings like adults and maybe kiss please Bioware my poor guy hasn't had a single kiss in 60 hours and he is bereft, bereft I tell you.

[realblackhelix]

Emmerich and Taash are my besties, Lace and Bellara are my sisters, Assan is my son, Manfred is my nephew, Davrin is my brother, Neve is my wife and, Lucanis is the other guy.

[amorremanet]

i’m starting with a crow rook later because viago de riva is too single parent-coded for me to ignore, i just want to put a messed up little guy in his arms like “this is elías, he’s your problem now, have fun 🥰”

[origamihoshi]

I think my new headcanon for my latest playthrough of veilguard is that it's just one big poly relationship, Curi is dating Davrin (the character I'm gonna romance in game) but she's also dating Spite, so that means she's also dating Lucanis becasue you can't have one without the other, but Lucanis is also dating Neve, and I'm also really liking the idea of Curi dating Bellara becasue those two are cute together.

and Harding doesn't die so her and Taash can be happy together. and of course Emmrich is happy with Strife.

[trevisos]

i have to power through this lucanis romance run bc i know neve is waiting for me on the other side….

[proheromidoriyashouto]

Rook's dowry isn't gonna manifest itself from nothing, Lucanis 'there's an opera house just for guests at the family villa' Dellamorte, is it??

Early on, you have to imagine that groupies for the Venatori and Antaam emerge. Fuckwits and nobs who want to get in good with Elderwand and GilmoreGirl, who think it's a mad motherfucking genius idea to hire the Antivan Crows to kill this Rook person. (even better if Rook is a Crow, tbh.)

Viago, quickly exasperated by the number--and abysmal grammar/spelling--of the proposed contracts against Rook, simply stops responding to the missives.

Teia, otoh, collects all of them. She sends the restless fledglings to spy on these would-be clients, who have helpfully identified themselves as enemies of their ally. She and Lucanis draft contracts on those who present an actual threat, Lucanis pays, and Teia herself fulfills those contracts.

Rook never knows. The Crows keep a lid on it.

There's a moment when Lucanis nearly spills it. When, while arguing with Emmrich about the contracts on King Markus, and Rook muses that it's good to be a nobody because no one bothers to put a contract on them, Lucanis almost murmurs, "That you know of..."

For a nobody, Rook is costing him a decent pile of gold.

[brainisafk]

I am obsessed with their profile. >.>

They have acquired a Crow! And now I have to remind myself before every conversation that they're not romancing him. >.<

That shot would be hilarious if Bellara hadn't decided to blink. Everyone's just staring like :O

Welcome to the team, Lucanis. They will be your new BFF and you are not getting a say in it. XD

[doberbutts]

One of the really insidious ways black people in media get treated is that despite our stereotypes expanding outside of "thug" "slave" and "prostitute", we are still very limited on *what* we can be portrayed as.

It is no shock to me that the two black women in Veilguard, for instance, are either medium toned like myself or a nonhuman skin color (introduced as a woman). It doesn't escape my attention that the only black woman in Baldur's Gate list of companions is also a nonhuman skin color. Dark skinned black women are still considered too unattractive to include as potential romanceable candidates, as it *also* does not escape my attention that the darkest we've had was Vivienne who was simultaneously regarded as an incredibly unlikeable character by huge swaths of the fandom and also unavailable for romance.

But moreover- why can't the bubbley nerdy cute mage be a black woman? Why can't the shy but resourceful archer be a black woman? Why does the black woman have to be someone with their guard up, walls as high as a skyscraper, cynical and callous? Why can't the black woman be the warm and loving Wynne, or the somewhat naive yet devout Leliana? The stalwart and just Aveline? I know plenty of Isabelas, and Viviennes, and Neves, and Taashs, but I also know plenty who are Merrill, or Bellara*, or Harding, or Cassandra, and I even lived with a Sera for a while. Why can't she be Bethany or Morrigan?

The closest we had was Josephine, who again is still fairly light skinned, but at least she has a bit more flexibility. And she isn't a companion, so her screen time is fairly minimal if you're not taking the time to romance her.

*And I don't begrudge Bellara too much, as A: I adore her and B: I'm pretty sure she's our first visibly Asian companion which is a milestone in itself. My point is more that Bellara could be black with virtually no story change because I know plenty of bubbly chirpy friendly black women who have a deep love of their hobbies and interests, who are bisexual and even prefer women, with deep trauma in their pasts, and yet the choice to *not* do that speaks to a problem the media has in their depiction of black women that is far bigger than Bioware.

And it doesn't escape my attention that the men have this problem as well- Wyll and Davrin* are both regarded as boring by their respective fandoms due to the choice to play it safe and stick with the extremely good and upright and just knight character instead of giving them something more messy- Astarion and Lucanis could be black with, as said, little-to-no change in their storyline because I know-even have dated- pansexual former sex worker black men with intensely complicated feelings about sex and intimacy, and I've had plenty of ex-con soft yet dangerous men holding themselves at a distance to prevent themselves from hurting anyone as my friends and even extended family.

I know plenty of intensely nerdy and probably autistic black guys who will infodump gladly about their special interest to the point of it consuming them. I know plenty of black guys with martyr complexes who think they have to tear the world- and themselves- apart just to fix what is broken in this world. I know plenty of black guys who, despite their own inability to get their shit together, are like a port in a storm every time you talk to them. I know plenty of black guys who are extremely educated and well respected within their field, with gentle yet commanding demeanor. Any of these characters *could* be black, and yet they aren't, and the choice to do so is again far bigger than Bioware and Larian.

*Davrin, like Vivienne, being the darkest and first blatantly black male companion instead of potentially able to be ambiguously "of color" like Zevran, Fenris, and Dorian. Even more damning that they'd considered, like Sera, making Solas blatantly black in his concept art and instead chose to make him a pale egg.

As someone desperate for representation, it becomes quickly obvious as I take inventory of what roles black people are given that we still aren't considered as complex and nuanced and interesting. We're allowed to be more than we were before, but we still have a long way to go.

[ainspams]

Y’all liked my “actually Emmrich is a good bf choice” analysis so here’s one for mi vida Luca

Yk how people say cats liking you is the perfect test of understanding consent? That’s what Lucanis is.

Man was literally in the trenches, had the threat of his blood taken hostage over his head AND a Spirit implanted into him. Of COURSE he would take a hot minute to trust anyone.

I believe The Rooks who truly romance him must have a special archetype of being outrageously patient but also very communicative.

As one of the best Crows, Lucanis is used to making clever assumptions. It’s how he knows the team disturbingly well. Because of this, he knows people don’t trust him, shouldn’t trust him.

And to a certain extent, he would be right. Most people would be offended that he seems to flirt but keep turning away (see the almost-kiss scene).

But we all know Rook isn’t most people. Rook can be irrationally unhinged but Lucanis’s Rook can also see through and accept Lucanis’ need for space.

The whole first half of the “romance”, Lucanis tries to flirt while also second-guessing his actions and Rook’s reactions. He overanalyses and smacks his own head when he reviews his self-rejections and realises Rook IS responding positively.

And every time, he comes closer to believing Rook does reciprocate his flirting. It comes out in his expressions, it comes out in his speech.

Making Rook’s favourite dessert was the first time he genuinely tested his theory that maybe Rook does like him. But at the same time, he makes enough dessert for the whole team so if Rook does reject him, he can settle for having AT LEAST made something nice for the whole team.

When Rook spells out that they see Lucanis making their favourite dessert, Lucanis still tries to wave it off as they also made it for the team. But then Rook specifically mentions that obviously they know Lucanis would make enough for the team, but he made Rook’s favourite dessert.

Remember how he is still struggling to accept Spite himself? Rook and Emmrich are the few people who accept Spite as a part of Lucanis, that Spite exposes the rawest emotions of Lucanis. Although Emmrich does see Spite as its own being like Taash, Emmrich treats Spite like its own independent person.

Meanwhile, Taash treats Spite like a petulant child that needs taming, Harding and Neve are confusedly anxious, and Davrin is only half-joking about killing Lucanis if Spite takes over. (Expanding on the Neve-Lucanis romance later)

The coffee date where we “confirm” the romance? Rook sees Lucanis serving Spite his own cup and is pretty much like “yk what? hell yea”. Rook has always treated Spite as a part of Lucanis, and has partially made Lucanis Lucanis. I like to think the Lucanis who accepts Spite is the best one.

This is also what sets Rookanis separately from Neve/Lucanis. In the love scene, Spite brings out the wings. It’s a part of the love scene. Rook reassures Lucanis later that if Spite does come out when Lucanis is sleeping, Rook is more than comfortable entertaining/socialising with Spite.

In contrast, Lucanis sends Spite away if he and Neve spend spicy time together.

Yes, Rook sees Lucanis as a talented rich kid who deserves his Demon of Vyrantium reputation. But Lucanis’ Rook also sees him as the orphaned grandson of the most powerful Talon who feels like he had to perfectly embody the Dellamorte name at all times. Lucanis’ Rook has seen how Spite takes over, Spite’s powers especially nearly killing Illario, and still goes “that’s my man 🙂‍↕️”

One Emmrich-Lucanis banter moment has him confessing he has NO IDEA what Rook sees in him. Him - First Talon, Dellamorte’s favourite grandson, rich enough to have an in-house opera house, with all the charm and fitness of being the Demon of Vyrantium - confused that Rook allows him to feel like he is losing hours of his life because he wants to spend even more time with them? 😭

Unlike most romances (most similarly FenrisHawke and EmmrichRook), Rookanis has to work through the male LI’s traumas/flaws because that sets the foundation for the romance to bloom. The male LI’s main flaw (Emmrich’s age, Fenris’s lyrium-related slave past, Lucanis’ kidnapping + Dellamorte name + Spite) has made them believe it would be near-impossible to find someone who loves them at that point. But Hawke/Rook does anyway.

[yokelish]

Well, I might have argued my point in slightly wrong direction. It's not "bad writing" that I have issues, it's the writing that's lacking. The foundations are there, no one bothered to actually build anything on it tho. My main argument for Neve/Lucanis relationship isn't that it's bad., it's doomed. Because the game gives me little to no reason to think otherwise with the writing that you are presented in the game. Nevanis as a relationship is underdeveloped to a point of coming across as fairly superficial. It's not that Neve and Lucanis are bad for each other. It's worse. They are nothing each other. They are an indulgence, a pleasant, romantic dalliance in shitty times. The writing doesn't suggest they can make each other better. It doesn't suggests they can make each other worse. it suggests next to nothing outside of, frankly, hottest banter. I love it. I hate it.

There is potential. It's wasted. It's ignored. The game wants to sell me an idea and gives me no reason to buy into it. Veilguard is actually very good at this. For example, the game tries to sell me I can trick Solas with a fake dagger. It gives me no reason to believe I could actually do it outside of "you are the main character". The game wants to introduce you ideas it doesn't even want you to sell on. You can discuss with Davrin the future of griffons, say that there is no changing one nature, say that redemption and change are impossible. But then give griffons to Arlathan, to embrace change, and Davrin won't even say "Huh. That's surprising."

Nevanis isn't inherently bad, its just the writing is so terribly lacking. The point of writing a relationship is you actually believe it. I am incredibly skeptical of any relationship that is happening because proximity and war times. I believe Taash and Harding relationship because of how it was written. I believe the romance between Dorian and Bull lasting -- not forever maybe-- but at least 5-7 years. Because of how it was written. Emmrich and Strife are put into an interesting place because one person is not your companion so you can't really know. But the very little you can gather about Emmrich and Strife is that a. they are both mature men who are not new to this game b. they take this relationship seriously c. neither is a stranger to more impermanent romances so whichever way their relationship swings is totally fine. If it's forever? Ok. If it's temporary? Fine too. They can be Dorian and Bull. They can be Blackwall and Josie. Even where Emmrich and Strife take place is more compelling.

An argument can be made that Nevanis takes place in the same space as Emmrife. And I can will agree with you, under the condition that the relationship is far more likely to be temporary. Their lives are duty bound, they both live in a lot of darkness (talk about balance Davrin, it's hard to make light when you never had to), their lives are always on the line, they bond over said darkness a lot....

Lucanis and Neve are only as interesting as the questions you shouldn't be asking. Especially if Lucanis is the Hardened one. Because after Lucanis gets hardened, they just kinda leave him there. Hardened against what? Mostly the player. But also not. Because certain cutscenes do not change regardless of where Lucanis stands with you. Hardened Lucanis and Rook relationship should have been complicated, but it's also not. Hardened Lucanis could have developed a more Spite-inclined streak, he could have grown more selfish, tired and traumatized by people who either see him as an obstacle or a tool. But he doesn't? Not really? Hardened Neve is much better written in my opinion, especially -- again, my opinion -- if you only pursue platonic friendship. Because Hardened Neve going through the turmoil of romantic feelings is expected, Hardened Neve going through "you let me down once why now have you decided to support me and why do i feel so fucking grateful for having a friend in you' is another.

I would like to emphasize: it's fair you as the leader of the Veilguard, get the brunt of the Hardened Character. You made the call, you live with the consequence. Consequence being one of your companions and their dynamics with you is irrevocably changed. That's fine. What's more upsetting that complexity -- the compelling factor, the oomf that should have happened -- of Hardened Lucanis's journey gets chucked into the Fade Prison. They made the decision to Harden Neve and Lucanis when writing them. Could they have added a bit more for Hardened Neve? Totally. But even then, her hardened path does leave me so wanting. You get it. The complex relationship you are having, the feelings that are all tangled up in a yarn ball. But instead of expending on Hardened Lucanis, they cut it. It is meant to basically say Lucanis cuts himself off from you, that there is a line he will not let you cross (but also not). Hardened Neve is interesting, she compels me so. Hardened Lucanis is...there.

When Hardened Lucanis doesn't give you an option about Illario, that was great. That was the only interesting thing tho. Lucanis taking away choice from player that would be there had he not been Hardened. But that's the most and the only intersting thing they do with him.

Neve gets development on hardened path. She is going against her instincts because she sees the needs of Dock Town cannot be met by her alone, she dismisses principles because they no longer work or apply to blighted Minrathous and much empowered Venatori. She understands that to continue to fight for Dock Town, she will need to change the rules just as much as the Venatori do. Hardened Lucanis reacts to being made First Talon (thing he denied for years, saying he didn't want it) the same way non-hardened Lucanis does. The main difference between Hardened and Lucanis is the question of Spite. Lucanis says he will go wherever, do whatever to separate from Spite. And he will. That's who Lucanis is. Maybe he'll succeed, maybe he'll die trying. I'm not sure how well that journey will go considering he is still First Talon with duties and responsibilities.

To say Lucanis heals from his childhood trauma by saying he doesn't resent Caterina is... stretching. Lucanis accepts what Caterina put him through as a thing that needed to happen. He says Caterina was so hard on him and Illario so they both survive and he doesn't resent her for it. His childhood was rough, tough, hard, etc. etc. because it needed to be that way. That's most likely what allowed him to survive the Ossuary. The choice was made on "I don't resent Caterina anymore" not "I forgive Caterina". Hardened Lucanis will not forgive Illario (and argument can be made that he shouldn't regardless), but it is telling that Hardened Lucanis is certainly putting some distance between himself and his big soft heart. But also isn't.

I think Neve and Lucanis are cute together. He respects... No, fucking admires her right off the bat. The way he compliments her battle prowess? WOW. Their banter and witty remarks are great, they even have a few overlapping interests (murder, books, and Venatori downfall). Neve and Lucanis without the One of them is Hardened, would be a couple to outcouple anyone for the rest of the franchise (if it lives). The fact Neve makes him laugh is so fucking precious. But what wasn't written into the game, might as well not exist. And it wasn't written. I don't care what Mary Kirby said on bluesky. If it wasn't written, it doesn't exist. They have a fucking codex "Sexuality in Thedas" and for what?

It is not outside of possibility that Neve and Lucanis help each other, there is nothing written in the game that suggests it, however. You can however look at the state the game leaves characters after the Final Gambit and reasonably conclude this relationship requires a LOT of work. And if the writers wanted to sell you on this relationship as something worthwhile, lasting, well-suited, well-considered, well-intentioned -- they needed to write it.

I don't mind the fact Hardened Lucanis cuts off romance with Rook. As a character writing, it's an interesting choice. Not particularly good, or particularly bad. It gives to Lucanis's character just as much as it takes away. It could have been a fascinating journey of forgiveness and rebuilding trust, but that would require A LOT of writing resources. So I don't think it's much as in "Lucanis is a deeply passionate man and internalizes the experience" as it is about "that kind of journey requires immense writing resources not to mention everything else". As you mentioned before, Lucanis is said to be sentimental and with a big-heart (which either gives him the capacity to either forgive Illario, but there is no forgiveness with Hardened Lucanis). Would I have died to see the incasing of Lucanis's soft big heart and then uncasing it? Totally. I understand why I can't. But I don't understand more as to why he is so... stagnant a character if Hardened. He retrieves more into himself when he could have been compelled to turn more spiteful, more selfish, more... anything, really. Neve still comes across as a more dynamic character when Hardened than Hardened Lucanis.

Again, the issue of Lucanis/Neve romance could be resolved with like 5 extra dialogue lines. It's not particularly hard. Neve saying something like Lucanis should consider making a deal with Spite because a deal is easier than chasing an answer across Thedas and still not get a satisfying one. After fucking all, the capital of human mage empire doesn't seem to have answer to his problem. What are his chances? Lucanis could be mentioning something about the scars Illario's betrayal left but also the fact his family has grown three times in size compared to last year and those bonds help. The game will smack you on the head three times that Lucanis and Harding trust each other and are friends. But the game cannot have a little something that suggests this dynamic -- Neve and Lucanis -- this relationship is doing something for those characters in terms of further development.

Example, Neve gets taken by Elgar'nan. Lucanis reacts. Thank FUCK he does react, actually. "You cannot not what Neve means to me because I myself never really told her, everything was just the tip of an arrow". Beautiful. Could he have also mentioned in Final Gambit that he has told her? That he is definitely telling her the moment Elgar'nan drops dead? Anything? For fucks sake say something about Eluvians needing to work after all the elven gods are dead so you can save time on travelling between Antive and Tevinter. The man is fucking romantic, for fuck's sake, and Rook just brought back his lover. I don't expect Neve to comment because the woman seems utterly out of it after being in Elgar'nan's grasp for weeks and I don't blame her.

The devil of Veilguard hides in the details. It's a constant issue if you look close enough. What do you meant Ferelden is all blighted? Hadring and Emmrich just camped there? What do you mean Taash went to speak with Shadow Dragons? Aren't they all scattered and in hiding? Rook, what do you mean "Solas, try a cure. Be the god your agent needs you to be." What cure is there, Rook? What cure you think is there? We watched the same memory, did we not? What cure you suggest he tries? It's the only memory where you are given a choice, and it's entirely meaningless and more importantly -- stupid.

The little detail that irked me is after Inner Demons Lucanis, in his charming and fumbling way, brings up the fact Neve is always on his mind. Except he says "You were there, in my mind. You helped Rook." Helped? Helped? That's what we call it? Lucanis, I understand what you wanted to say. You really should have thought this through, however. That was dishonest. Please have a better conversation with your romantic partner about your feelings, thoughts, and experiences, that was very bad.

My favourite background relationship is Taash and Harding because it gives. It gives what you need to know it's gonna work. Taash and Harding are emotionally open with other, even if talking about feelings is hard for Taash and Harding tends to ignore negative emotions. They have like 1-2 banters about it, and you already get that either: Laash formed a romantic relationship after building a strong platonic one or they are actively working on their relationship, all depending on when you get the banter. You are presented with emotional issues that are confronted in a relationship. Can this relationship fall apart? Can it turn into nothing? Abso-fucking-lutely. It's a relationship. But the writing of it makes me want to think it will not, not ever.

Neve and Lucanis have candlelight dinners and that's hella nice. But what is there to tell me this flowers-and-chocolates fantasy will not fizzle out the moment they go to live in cities they are heart-and-soul bound to? Not much, honestly. Yes, Lucanis is a romantic, and Neve has a heart of gold. But Lucanis is also dutiful to a fault and almost incapable of placing his wants first. And so is Neve, honestly. What is there to suggest that Lucanis or Neve will be able to hold each other to a higher standard? Cynical Neve grows more cynical, her belief that people can let you down turns into more people will let you down. And Lucanis isn't all that equipped to deal with his cynical cousin after growing up together. And Hardened Lucanis during Final Gambit doesn't emrabce the idea of living his life as his own until he gets rid of Spite. Which is something that may never happen.

Harding even goddamn helps Taash with mother issues via having fucking conversations. Harding has a healthier perspective, a better point of reference. Taash encourages Harding to not be so afraid of her anger, anger is normal, if you are angry, you are angry, just deal with it in a healthy way. Taash is honestly great. Taash doesn't get enough recognition. Tho, their questline commits a rather egregious crime. Lucanis and Neve banter is flirtatious but not deep. And it can be said because the characters are just that way, except no, Neve and Bellara do discuss their romantic lives (or more specifically Neve's feelings). So, no again there.

And the nuance of a relationship of Hardened Character/Unhardened Character is just fucking missing. Could Hardened Neve/Lucanis forge a bond undying? Could they make each other better? Could each other worse? Could Spite commit murder-suicide in their sleep? The writing leaves out so much of it out, you can use your imagination to build palaces, you can also realistically say it will end with not much changing for either of them. They will come out of that relationship exactly as they entered it. Lucanis might be affected because it's his first and failing your first relationship is a scar of its own. Neve however? It happened. It was nice while it lasted.

So if in Final Gambit, after Lucanis and Neve have been doing this seeing each other thing for some time, after Neve potentially coming back from the dead, both of them knowing they can die in a few minutes i do not believe in their romantic relationship as something long-lastin, why am I not to say this relationship is doomed? The relationship between those two people will inevitably end and sooner than later. That's all it means.

And, yes, it grates me that a game is about "everyone can be redeemed" and "don't get stuck in your regrets", you will not be able to meaningfully influence your companion whose cutscenes on Tearstone Island do not change. So you have that bond. But also you don't. I'd be down if the bond was entirely one-sided. But it's not. The writers could have chosen to take the cake away with Hardened Lucanis. But they didn't. They wanted both chairs, so the sitting is uncomfortable.

Idk, man. Seems like a buckwild take to say that just because Lucanis can't heal with Neve the way he does with Rook makes him and Neve a bad pairing. Like, there's no one right person for anyone. One True Love™ isn't real and there are all kinds of relationships that work just fine. There's no one right way to deal with trauma. And love comes in so many shapes and sizes.

I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that Neve and Lucanis help each other get better together. It won't look the same as either does with Rook, because, well, they aren't with Rook (???).

But I firmly believe that both of them would hold their partner to a higher standard, demand that they accept more love than they think they deserve, because they want better for their partners. And while that might not lead to Lucanis unraveling his trauma à la Mind Prison, it doesn't mean Neve couldn't help him find another route through.

(I also think it's a bit unkind to think a 35-36 year old man who has already dealt with his childhood trauma (re: he "doesn't resent Caterina anymore", implying he once did and he worked through his shit) wouldn't eventually work through the Ossuary and Spite on his own. It would just be slower and look different and that's OKAY! Romance is not a prerequisite for dealing with trauma.)

Also, and I will die on this hill, it is not "bad writing" to have Lucanis be unromanceable by a Rook who chose to save Minrathous. Lucanis views that choice, as logical as it may be, as a betrayal. You've betrayed Treviso, the Crows, and him. And, he's someone who REQUIRES a close emotional attachment to feel attraction (demisexual, hello???). So, yeah. You let his city and people die a slow terrible death to the blight, he isn't going to fall in love with you. He literally can't. It makes complete sense and I thought it was a BRILLIANT choice by the writers. If you save Minrathous, you get a totally different Lucanis and I think that's incredible.

Neve doesn't lock you out if you save Treviso because she is a much more rational and logical thinker than Lucanis. Lucanis is called "soft-hearted" and "sentimental" multiple times across the game and tie-in media, where Neve is known for her icy exterior, wit and cleverness. It makes complete sense.

I am begging people to stop calling elements they personally dislike "bad writing".