#I just want another live action doc ock… | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

s0ulfulsapph1c · 2 years ago

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Saw Across the Spiderverse, I loved it, 10/10 incredible talented beautiful amazing etc

They should never be allowed to write for Miguel again. That was not my guy and I am so disappointed and afraid for how it’ll influence public opinion of him. More under the cut in case this gets long, but in short:

Miguel O’Hara is someone who’s vehemently against injustice and large, powerful collectives taking choice and power away from the masses. His origin story is literally being used and abused by the powerful company he worked for because he wanted to save the lives of strangers. For protecting people from testing he knew would kill them, he was forcibly drugged and then had a murder attempted by a colleague, giving him his powers. His whole journey as Spider-Man has been about ensuring a better future for his world and fighting back against people who hoard power and lord it over others.

Miguel O’Hara is also a serious man within the suit and a bit of a wise-ass out of it, and he certainly has a short fuse, he would *never* be so irrationally angry towards someone who wants to save his father. Miguel often bends or breaks rules when he feels they’re unjust, and his whole first arc (and much of his character) is fighting against an even more corrupt and all-encompassing Big Pharma. Miguel has a big heart and strives to help others even when he grumbles about it. His first action after getting his powers is attempting to save the man who just repeatedly tried to kill him!

Even when stuck in the past, even when having no obligation to be a hero, Miguel is. Because that’s the kind of person he is. He’s a fierce defender of those who cannot protect themselves, he’s an incredibly smart scientist, and he’s constantly maneuvering in battle to avoid hurting civilians. In fact, he ends up injured himself more often than not keeping others out of harm’s way. He’s a good man.

In the movie, Miguel O’Hara willfully allows the deaths of countless people close to friends to serve ‘canon’. Ignoring that Miguel’s first act was defying rules, ignoring that he goes out of his way to protect his friends, even ignoring that he helps revive those close to him after death, the backstory they gave him troubles me. Miguel has never had a daughter. He had a son, named after his dear brother Gabriel. If he were doing this for his son, who he fought to get back to after death, or Gabriel, who he thought about constantly when stranded in the past, I’d be slightly more forgiving. But he’s not. He’s compromising everything that makes him who he is for a daughter he never had in the comics.

The lengths movie Miguel goes to, relentlessly chasing Miles and beating him into the ground several times, seem extreme. Miguel *is* angry, but only towards people who pose a great threat to innocents such as children or his immediate loved ones. Knowing Miles is a child, the lengths Miguel in the movie goes to are jarringly out of character.

I understand that they needed a villain, but to me, it would be infinitely more compelling if:

1) They used Superior Spider-Man instead. Doc Ock in a Peter’s body knowing that Spider-Man must exist for him to exist and thinking that one can only be a hero in tragedy would be a very good villain for Miles. It would also tie in well with the Spot, and how he insists that Miles made him as he made Miles. Another villain sits there, insisting that Spider-people make him, and he makes them in return. Miles says “That’s dumb and wrong” and spits in the face of hurting people to exist.

2) Miguel is doing this to get back to his brother. Gabriel is *the* most important person in Miguel’s life, to the point where he names his son after him and risks his secret identity and safety immediately to ensure his brother is okay. Keeping things ‘canon’ to assure himself that it means he can see his brother again, knowing that it’s wrong but being so desperate to find the only family that matters to him, would be a wonderful parallel to Miles. Miles loves his father, even when things are complicated, the same way Miguel loves his brother. Miguel and Miles are both brilliant people who would do anything for their loved ones and fight hard and dirty when they need to. Building on that would keep Miguel’s characterization closer to who he is while also keeping him as an antagonistic force.

If you made it this far, thank you! As I said, I loved the movie. The art is beautiful, the characters are poignant and emotional, and I cannot wait to see where the story goes. I just wish Miguel O’Hara was a part of that story.

#across the spiderverse #smatsv #spider man across the spider verse #spider man 2099 #miguel o'hara #please don’t come for me I just love my blorbo

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youngstarfishphilosopher · 2 years ago

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THE LITTLE MERMAID: RAMBLE (Spoilers)

- The CGI wasn't actually to bad in this movie. It wasn't the best, but it was far from terrible.

-I wasn't a big fan of Ariel's sisters having their names changed, also them getting rid of their song

- I like that they gave more depth to Prince Eric's character.

- It makes him more likeable than Prince Eric from the first movie.

-Cause in the live action, he was adopted by the royal family when he was wased up by a shipwreck, and although he didn't want to rule like his adopted father, he still wanted the best for his people.

- TRIDENT AND URSULA ARE SIBLINGS CONFIRMED!!!!!

- I loved how they made it so that both Ariel and Eric loved and were curious about the world's that the other one came from.

-And both their parents forbidding it because they were scared for their child's safety.

-It all in all made it feel like a Romeo and Juliet story. Two people from opposite worlds growing a close bond over their similar unhappy situations

- Where is chef Loui!?!?!

- Puppy Max Supremacy!!!! 😍 ♥️ ❤️ 💕 💖

-I like how they did a doc-ock effect with Ursula: having her tentacles have a mind of their own.

-Ursula just came down in a bubble, Glenda, the good witch style

- It was cute how Aruel used the stars that Eric was showing her to help him find her name

- And the whole town travel day was absolutely adorable and I loved it so much

- It was also nice how they didn't put Eric completely under Ursula's spell.

-Seeing him having an internal struggle about how now that he's (supposedly) found the girl that he's been looking for, he doesn't know what he wants.

- He's in the struggle of choosing the girl who (supposedly) saved his life, and the girl who he got to bond with, grow a connection with, and share this mutual and caring understanding with.

-Vanessa (Aka Ursula) and Ariel just had a straight-up fist fight!

- They straight up just killed Triton!

-Instead of turning him into one of those garden things, Ursula actually just freaking kills him!

- Oh, never mind, They got him back.

- It was nice to see that at the end of the movie, both parents apologized to their children.

- I especially loved the apology from Triton. How he said that Ariel never should have had to lose her voice in order to be heard.

- And the movie ended with both Ariel and Eric off to travel tye world with one another.

- And making a new era of peace between humans and Merfolk

- So yeah, all in all, I would say that it's definitely one of Disney's better Live action adaptations

#little mermaid #live action #live action the little mermaid #the little mermaid

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breadkneewheat · 2 years ago

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Finally watched Spider-Man No Way Home and they're will possibly be SPOILERS HERE, so there's that.

My only complaint is that there wasn't enough Doctor Octopus/Doc Ock.

My only critism is that there may have been too much fanservice. It was great seeing all the villians tossed in, but Sandman and The Lizard didn't really need to be there. Maybe Green Goblin should have convinced Electro to join him while Doc Ock was on the fence on joining them and then later on decided help out the Spider-Men. Otherwise, the movie was a nice live action special.

It's also kinda funny, how Electro thought Peter Parker was black and I thought they were going to try a clever cameo for Miles Morales for a minute.

I get why people don't like this movie and why people love it. For me, I just see it as another interpretation of the Spider-Man universe. I watched this for Doc Ock, but everything else was fine.

This movie just makes me want a crossover with all the different Doc Ock interpretations.

#spoilers #breadkneespeaks #spider man no way home #no way home #spiderman nwh

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madhare0512 · 2 years ago

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A Comrehensive List of SpideyFist Interactions (pt.5)

hello and welcome back to: reasons Spideyfist is canon. a series where i take you through each episode of The Ultimate Spiderman and show you why i believe that Peter Parker and Danny Rand are dating in canon, or at least that they are each other’s favorites. and also give you commentary on the show itself as i do

(the post is unbeta'd)

warnings for: episode spoilers, season spoilers, action/injury description, unsolicited commentary, probable cussing, violence, caps lock

this part features episodes 1 through 6 of season 2

~~~

S2E1 The Lizard:

- this is another episode i was waiting for, because it has some BIG evidence

- race against the clock troupe

- you know, NO ONE tells Peter shit in this show

- Danny (and Luke) gets thrown into a wall and Peter jumps down to check on them figure out what happened

- Danny’s at the front of the line when Peter herds the team past, implying Danny was rounded up last, which counts as favoritism when you consider that Peter's literally SHOVING the team out the door

- of course the team still lives with May and Peter

- from what i know about meditation, you find a quiet place to meditate in. from what i understand, that place is usually somewhere you also sleep in. which means that Danny sleeps in Peter’s room. if this is not the case, firstly i apologize for my misinformation, secondly, Peter’s still letting Danny use his bedroom, his BEDROOM, for something that consumes time and requires peace and quiet. also, the smoke also bothers Peter, as seen when he sneezes just walking into the room, but he lets Danny burn his insence and candles in Peter’s bedroom

- Peter’s annoyed with everyone and being unable to find a place to be alone, but he’s not annoyed with Danny and he actively APOLOGIZES for disturbing Danny (and scaring him)

- Sam and May’s relationship is really cute

- ah, the zoom in on the Lizard dna, forshadowing~

- Peter knowing that it’s his job to save people without worrying about the objects- Connors wants to help Otto for science to help others and that’s so admirable

- Connors isn’t my favorite character, that’s Danny, but he’s a close second. he saw an oppurtunity to help and did so without hesitation

- LIZARD ARM

- i will forever be upset that this is how they chose to handle the Lizard in this iteration. all Connors wanted was a) to help Spiderman and b) to find a way to help those with disabled bodies. which i think is very nobel, some people don’t like that they’re down a limb and that’s valid. Connors suddenly lost a limb and wants it back, i get that. anyway, i’m rambling back to other commentary

- i like to headcanon that Connors and Octavus dated in collage

- Connors straight up looses his humanity and Octavius fucks him up more by refusing to help. Doc Ock’s obessession with seing the world turned into moster like he sees himself as now ends up being the foundation for some of the biggest villains Spiderman faces this series

- Sam’s disgust with the sewers

- Spidey-sense is either inaccurate or has terrible timming

- Stan Lee! i love this damn show and the fact that Stan worked on this show!

- we so often forget that Peter Parker isn’t just a brillian hero, he’s also a fantastic scientist that specializes in chemistry

- Danny’s the first one to reveal himself when Peter says “this was my plan”

- honorable PowerNova mentions: the way Sam just slams into Connors when the Lizard goes to attack Luke

- “you have about two seconds, Spider!” no one else uses that nickname for Peter in case you’re wondering. it’s just Danny. and Danny doesn’t give anyone else specialized nicknames

- the fact that Peter struggles with having so many people in his house is something that i can relate to, but very differently

- Danny’s a vegitarian!!

~~~

S2E2 Electro:

- i think Electro is actually sporting his classic comic look in this episode and i think that’s amazing!

- Peter’s adorable and the team being absorbed in their own tasks is something else. it also shows what this team does for fun.

- during the Electro introduction, when Electro is in the television the camera angle zooms out and shows Danny and Peter, you can tell by the hair color and shape as well as the outfits. PREVIOUSLY, Danny was sitting on the couch in a meditative pose. so when shit gets weird, Danny IMMEDIATELY gets up off the couch and goes to stand next to Peter. the time between the lights going out and the camera angle was like 5 seconds, which means it HAD to be immediate

- Danny and Peter standing next to each other before a battle again!

- also, I didn't address this is the first episode and I should've, but Danny wears green through the entirety of season 1, but in season 2 he's wearing red. and of all the team, which one wears red in any capacity? PETER DOES

- "we need light!" hmm maybe we should ask the guy who lights up- nah! "Danny can you use your fist?"

- no hesitation! NO HESITATION! there is no hesitation to be found when Danny gives it thought. he's just like, "well, I've never done it before, let's test it out" AND DOES IT

- in the flip away where the team are cavemen, the score cards go like this: Luke - 9, Ava - 8, Danny - 9.5, and we know this show is 3rd person limited, from Peter’s point of view, so this fucking counts

- and when Sam's pushing the Spidey-Cycle who gets to sit on the back of it? who gets to sit with Peter on the Spidey-Cycle? say it with me, here, DANNY DOES. if it was weight distribution, Ava would be on the back, but Luke's carrying Ava and Danny’s on the back of the Spidey-Cycle

- PETER AND DANNY HAVE NO FLUCKING SPACE BETWEEN THEM EITHER! NO SPACE, THEY'RE SITTING BACK TO BACK AND DANNY’S LEANING UP AGAIN PETER

- Danny's also the only one who sits on the back of the Spidey-Cycle. like, ever, to my knowledge, unless in an emergency

- also, this may not be accurate, but I'm counting it anyway cause it's fucking cute, but in the wipe-away where the team is cavemen on the stone wheel, Peter looks like he's carrying Danny and that's fucking adorable

- okay, so now things are a little different, but again, Peter shows favoritism for Danny, he gets to sit on the handlebars of the bike, where it's less crowded and Ava's relegated to the back with her hands on Peter’s back. it's so cute

- god these poor kids

- Batroc is fucking WEIRD. wtf was up with the pacifier??

- Danny is fucking AMAZING and i LOVE HIM

- if Danny and Peter doesn’t stop standing next to each other all the time, i’m gonna start thinking they’re gay /hj, also this counts twice

- and again, Ava may have been the first to follow, but guess who’s RIGHT on her heels

- Ava and Luke get to fly up, but Danny gets fucking THROWN

- hi, hello, i’m not a film nerd, but i have a minor obsession with perceptions and how specific things can alter that. so, when the camera angle zooms in right before the tram hit the building, it shows Peter AND Danny

- Peter moves, Danny’s right behind him, perfectly in sync with the man whois his leader. yes, this counts

- and again, i will always say, Peter doesn’t have to say a thing to Danny for Danny to understand what he wants

- “hero helps the villain by running his mouth” cliche

- also when they’re webbed to the truck, the others all look like they’ve been shot at by web fluid and are now stuck to a truck, but when you look at Danny, he’s got his arms crossed looking like he expected this, which means he LET Peter shoot him beause we know from later episodes that Peter’s webs stick to you and set in seconds. does this count? i’m counting it

- Danny and Peter are standing next to each other in the elevator again

- listen, i’m not gonna say Sam’s a dumbass. he’s a hero-in-training and he’s from fucking space. what i AM gonna say is that i feel like he should think a little more before he speaks

- jesus fUCK Electro

- hi, welcome to me being cheesy and liking music: i totally have the headcanon that Peter makes Danny playlists

- poor villain

- the team bonding is cute

- “better than being ignored!” glances in Danny’s general direction “I... guess.”

~~~

S2E3 The Rhino:

- Danny’s not in this episode, no notable interactions. BUT there’s headcanons i can share

- THE RHINO

- headcanon one: the team started joining Peter on patrols after they saw just how much effort he puts into superhero-ing. Danny came up with the offical idea and Ava made the schedule

- headcanon two: Peter has a small squad willing to do anything for him (yes it’s made up of his team, Harry, and MJ, and YES Danny is a leader of this squad)

- does everyone on the team have bikes? can we see Danny, Ava, and Sam’s?

- “since when did you get more sage than Iron Fist?” Peter we get it, you’re in love and know all your boyfriends sayings.

- also, by definition, Peter calls Danny wise, which fucking COUNTS

- jumping off cliffs with your friends

~~~

S2E4 Kraven the Hunter:

- fucking Peter and Danny and their fucking proximity to each other when there’s no damn need for it

- Danny comes up right next to Peter udring the training exersize

- “group up and-” Spidey-sense goes off “shit she’s going after my boyfriend” - like did you hear that panic? that just SCREAMS worried s/o

- say what you will, but Ava is very methodical. take out the biggest threat first, the one who flies and can see stealth attacks coming by staying above the fight. then the powerhouse, the master of technique (and also the leader’s weakness). then the muscle, and finally, the leader

- okay, so idk if you guys noticed, but Danny? during the panning shot where Ava’s driving Peter backwards with her claws? Danny’s entire attention is on that fight. he’s watching it like he’s ready to jump in an second, he follows the fight with his entire body.

- video games, Danny and Peter are sitting next to each other

- "carbo load”, Danny and Peter are sitting next to each other

- at the movies, Danny and Peter are sitting next to each other

- this is will say, when Peter gets thrown to the edge of the roof, Sam gets real serious and steps between someone he’s afraid of and someone he teases all the time

- Danny’s the only person who could land an actual hit on Ava from up close, which only proves his skill

- Danny gets donkey kicked and Peter’s immediately saying “we gotta stop this now”

- the cut aways are cute, okay?

- if i had a dollar every time Peter and Danny where standing next to each other-

- who’s the first one to follow the order? who’s the FIRST ONE to follow Peter’s lead? Danny, it’s Danny

- hey, this follows the same training Ava did! biggest threat, powerhouse, muscle

- why is handsome what he goes for?

- okay, so Peter doesn’t land immediately by Danny, which gets a dismissal at first, but then during my rewatch, i noticed he focussed in on Danny first and for a solid second longer than Luke or Sam, so i count it

- and again, he’s looking right at Danny (based on positioning and where his eye line would be) when he says “you take your cat nap and i’ll do my hero thang”

- okay. so if i understand this right, the tiger Ava has to keep in control is directly connected to the amulet, right? so then does that mean if she doesn’t have the amulet on her person she doesn’t have to be strictly in control all the time? therefore, following this line of logic, she could just put the amulet down somewhere and get a break, right?

- this episode fall back on what i said back in part 2 about Ava’s worst fears being failure. “i’m nothing without the amulet” is an explanation of that fear. she’s terrified of failing because she thinks she’s defined by her power. all of the team does. it’s an issue that really should be solved.

- “i know you’re not nothing” aww Peter’s comforting her

- each of the team is strong in their own ways, and the solo episodes only prove it

- “oh yeah? where are the boys?” they’re still unconsicous at the pier, let’s go get them

~~~

S2E5 Hawkeye:

- not going to lie to you, i do love Hawkeye more than i probably should considering he’s a HoH hero, but he’s my favorite of the Avengers and i will not back down on that

- Danny’s not in this epsiode, it’s commentary and headcanon

- wait, Danny talks first in the cut away. i’m counting it.

- okay so. i’m not going to tell you that i don’t ship Peter and Ava, but i am going to tell you i think she has a lot of growing to do before she should date anyone. Peter does to, of course, he’s an idiot kid just the same. i just think Peter’s less immature. it’s honestly the same for Sam, he gets blackmail and uses it against Peter, teasing and mocks in cruelty, and i understand that they care for each other, they’re teammates and family, but Peter shouldn’t be dating Sam or Ava as they are now

- Peter has a little baby crush on Hawkeye

- Danny’s talking first in all these cut aways, counts as favortism

- also, Peter doesn’t seem annoyed with the team until Luke pushes in and talks, in fact he almost looks like he’s looking around the sink to try and help Danny find his toothpaste

- Hawkeye and Peter have very different fighting styles and priorities and it shows when they’re stuck together

~~~

S2E6 The Sinister Six:

- training session on the statue of liberty

- Danny tells Peter to prepare instead of a random trash-talk line

- Peter walks close to Danny and speaks directly him when he say “you can do better”

- Danny walks away last, which i’m counting.

- Peter, just because you’re giving the team the option and letting them do their own thing doesn’t mean you’re a bad leader

- “they’ll be here, any minute” Peter knocking back bravado and faking confidence since 2012 /j

- Luke was first up, but Danny was right after, on his heels even, when Peter tried to call for his team

- Octavius is literally TORTURING an old friend to get his way, what else is he willing to do?

- the Sinister Six are stupid as hell

- okay, so i know you’re thinking, how can Peter’s tv appearance lend itself to Spideyfist? well, in truth, at first glance, it doesn’t. but you have to remember that he’s on The Daily Bugle broadcast, which is FAMOUS for putting Spiderman and anyone accociated with Spiderman down and ruining their reputation even if they’ve done nothing wrong. saying Nova’s name first, then White Tiger, then Power Man, then Iron Fist is actually a way to protect his boyfriend. Peter doesn’t necessarily like Sam and we’ve well established that Danny his favorite, to put Iron Fist’s name last is to quietly tell the public he doesn’t really care about that hero in order to protect him from media backlash

- you know, for all the shit Peter goes though and despite those like Fury and Ava telling him he’s not a good hero, Peter’s actually a really good hero

- the fucking villains just holding Peter down

- “and I did try” ...sighs

- “but inspirational enough” Danny not letting Peter talk badly about himself is so cute

- you know the only combo move we see in the show is the Fist Ball, where Luke throws Danny into the enemy and Nova dropping people on their enemies?

- i forget if it was atrophy or just the accident that cause Octavius to loose the use of his arms and legs in this universe, but one very well could lead into the other. anyway, the point is Peter ripping Octavius arms off was cold blooded

- he’s looking at Danny when he says “i’m going after Connors”

- Peter can’t ever given himself a fucking break, can he?

- “i won’t stop trying to save you!” is like a personal motto for Peter. in truth, he’s never going to stop trying to save the people he cares about and he’ll run himself into the ground doing so. we saw it with Harry and we see it here with Doctor Connors

~~~

thank you!

#the ultimate spiderman #ultimate spiderman #peter parker #danny rand #spiderfist #spideyfist #peter parker/danny rand #character analysis #season analysis #season 2 #spoilers #season 2 spoilers #with honorable mentions of powernova #content and trigger warnings #content warnings #trigger warnings

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illiana-mystery · 2 years ago

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Hello❣️ When did the Alfred Molina fangirling begin for you?

Omg, thank you for this question. I love answering this question. 😆

(⚠️ I'm probably about to fangirl about a cartoon way too hard but here I go!)

So back in 2014, when Matador and Love is Strange premiered, Alfred was also voice acting in a Disney XD show called Penn Zero.

(You can totally tell he was still filming Matador. This was from the interview he did for the show. Also we love the slightly opened shirt 👀👀👀)

Now this was way before I knew his whole IMDB, so I only knew him as Doc Ock. I was just starting college back then and saw a teaser trailer for the show. Immediately, I was hooked by the premise (since I used to watch Quantum Leap with my grandfather) and tuned into the first episode.

Then I saw his character...this green goblin/alien looking dork:

(This is from another episode that wasn't the first episode. But still, you get the idea.)

I immediately loved his character design (did you notice how they gave him a similar nose and wrinkle lines? Even his unibrow is thick as hell.) and then he started talking. Now, granted, I didn't realize that Alfred was British back then, (I just knew his American accent because of Doc Ock) so I didn't know it was him voicing the alien character named Rippen.

But when he started talking, I was sent. Like I was deceased. 💀💀 I was instantly tuned into this show. I wanted more. (I might like British accents way too much.)

Fast forward to my sophomore year of college, I was in my dorm watching a new episode of the show. Something told me to watch the end credits too so I did and I saw his name.

The gears in my brain started to work and I realized that I heard that name somewhere before. So immediately, I start typing away furiously on my Wikipedia app and I see that he was best known for being Doc Ock.

I dropped my phone in shock and literally lost my damn mind. Like I couldn't believe it. My inner 8 year old was going fucking crazy. But I had to share the news with my brother.

So I'm furiously dialing his number and I just start talking a mile a minute, not even catching a breath until my brother had to stop me.

Then I calmly explained and he didn't know what I was talking about since he had never seen Spiderman 2. But he was excited for me finding that out and we just geeked out about the episode we just watched.

When I got back home for the holidays, we looked at his IMDb. This was also long before my marathon and we found out he played a villain on a cartoon my brother loved at the time, Kung Fu Panda: Legends of Awesomeness.

(This mofo named Ke-Pa is the character he played on that show. The left is his cursed form and the right is his demon form.)

So yeah, we were more familiar with his voice acting career at the time than his live-action stuff. And we enjoyed Penn Zero to the end.

The Rippen side of the Penn Zero Fandom was my first step into the actual Alfred Molina Fandom and then I found you guys 7 years later.

And through that side of the cartoon's fandom I found out about Satipo due to a parody they did on the show:

But the show is chock full of other references of characters Alfred has played. I'm not gonna spoil it for you if you do want to watch. But you'll probably catch them. 😉

If you're interested, you can find all the episodes here.

And if you ever want to geek out about the show, you can DM me or send me an ask. I love talking about this show, so it'll make my whole day.

#sorry yall #i'm back on my bullshit #i love that show so much #thank you anon #thanks for the ask!#anon asks #asks #alfred molina

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crankynewt · 3 years ago

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Spider-Man No Way Home Predictions!

(Potential spoiler warning, but these are just my predictions as a fan of the MCU)

✨the line✨

This is (most likely) Tom's last appearance as Peter Parker, meaning there's no way we won't hear "with great power comes great responsibility." I predict that we'll hear it come from Tobey to Tom, as Ben is already gone and I doubt they'd change the origins of something so iconic.

"Is this stuff coming out of you?"

As Andrew and Tom's Peter use web-shooters rather than have it come from their wrists, like Tobey's Peter, and would likely be confused at this difference. It'd be a nice little callback to Sam Wilson's comment during the first time we saw Tom's Peter in action way back in Civil War.

Avocados at Law

I want to see Charlie Cox return as Matt Murdoch sooooo bad but, unless Marvel hints at Daredevil in a trailer again (like they may have done with the protest signs and lawyer's arms) or reveals that he will be in the movie, I doubt that we will see him. I feel like we'll probably see him in an end credit scene or mentioned as an easter egg, but not in the film itself. If the lawyer isn't Matt, however, a fun twist is that Foggy could represent him instead! (Although I still doubt that we'll see either of them).

(more below the cut 👇)

He saved her... This time.

Gwen Stacey's death in The Amazing Spider-Man 2 was absolutely heartbreaking, and I'm sure we'll see MJ in a similar place of danger to raise the stakes. I feel we'll see Tom's Peter trying to save her and fail, but she won't die. Instead, it'll reveal that Andrew's Peter got there in time to save her, doing what he wasn't able to do for his love. Almost a sort of redemption but also a heartbreaking parallel and difference between their lives in each reality.

No really, No Way Home

This is a fairly obvious one, but it is most likely that it'll be the villains who have no way home, not Peter. He'll have to choose between sending them back, resulting in their deaths and possibly making him a "murderer" once more, or defeating them in this reality. He'll probably have to come to terms with eventually choosing the former at the end of the film.

Here'ssss Rhinoooo!

We've seen or been alluded to 5/6 members of the Sinister Six in the trailer already (Doc Ock, Green Goblin, Electro, Sandman, & Lizard), and I truly believe that the last villain we'll get is Rhino. I believe that he and Andrew's Peter will be transported through the multiverse at the ending scene from TASM2, and that's the moment they'll have come from as it was the last time we saw either of them.

It was a DiVeRsiON

This theory has definitely been circulating a lot on the internet, but I do believe it was Tom Holland's face edited onto Tobey Maguire's body. It's the same suit we saw him wear in Spider-Man 3, tying into the theory of them being pulled through existing moments we've seen before as mentioned above. Additionally, that's the only time we see Tom's face on a body wearing the Iron Spider suit, meaning that it very likely could be Tobey actually wearing it.

Lost Friend... AGAIN

I adore Ned, I adore Jacob Batalon, but in the first two series' Peter lost Harry and I feel like it's the emotional turmoil that they want for him to experience more character development. I don't want it, I DON'T WANT IT, but I think we will see him become Hobgoblin.

WandaVision

Since we see Stephen Strange in this movie, one of the end credit scenes will probably be teasing Multiverse of Madness!! Since Elizabeth Olsen will be in that film, we may see her or see another direct reference to the events of WandaVision to begin connecting the two characters. (We may even see the deleted footage of Stephen that Feige confirmed was removed from the project).

Evil Doctor, How Strange.

There are a few clips in the trailer that look like Stephen and Peter are fighting, so what may happen is that Peter will encounter a version of him which he has to fight. Who knows, it may be an interesting scene to see.

👏MILES👏FREAKING👏MORALES👏

They confirmed his existence in the MCU in Spider-Man: Homecoming, and I would love to at least have another mention of his existence in this movie as well! I'm sure they'll at least throw us some easter egg about him even though we probably won't see him.

Return of the (Dancing) King

This one is more of something personal that I want to see, but I want a callback to Tobey's Peter dancing in Spider-Man 3! I mean, c'mon.

^^ This was iconic. As long as somebody does this dance, I'm happy.

Here are the honorable mentions of things I want to see that I, unfortunately, really doubt we will:

Dane DeHaan: The best Harry Osborn but had just had another baby before filming so is likely not lying when denying the rumors.

Emma Stone: I mean, Gwen died... And she also just had a baby so we probably won't see her.

Peter Maximoff/Ralph Bohner: MARVEL NEEDS TO FIX THIS but I don't think they'll do it in Spider-Man.

Okay, I think that's all! Let me know your thoughts on these theories and/or your favorite theories in the comments!

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docockbrainrot · 3 years ago

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i think i want you (to leave)

Summary: We’re all running from something. Sometimes, metaphorically. Sometimes, literally. Literally running, from the very strangely hypnotizing supervillain that seems hellbent on ruining every bit of your life he can get all eight of his limbs on.

Pairing: Doc Ock X Reader/ Otto Octavius X Reader

Content: Slow Burn, NSFW eventually, 18+

AO3 link here.

Previous Chapter

Chapter 5

anathema// former vandal

The next several days are an uneventful blur. You barely leave your apartment, except for brief dog walks and grabbing food from the bodega across the street.

It’s 9 pm on Saturday and you’re fresh out of the shower, tucked away in a very fuzzy robe, lounging on the couch and watching YouTube on your television. You almost miss the subtle taptaptaptap sound coming from your window, you're so engrossed in the cooking show you’ve been binging. Gotta fill the void somehow, right?

You can’t see anything outside from where you’re sitting. The lights are on and make it impossible to peer through the reflections on the glass. Maybe it’s a bird. Or a branch is caught on the fire escape. Either way, you certainly can’t be assed to check it out and you take another sip of your chamomile tea- you’ve been trying everything under the sun, just about short of literally snorting lines of melatonin, to try to sleep better at night. Nothing’s been working. But you have been making a very valiant effort.

A few moments go by and you forget all about the window disturbance until,

TAPTAPTAPTAPTAPTAPTAPTAPTAP.

It’s jarring. It’s loud. Above all else, it’s annoying. Chekov spares you a look, like you’re the one making a racket. Effectively exasperated, you make an effort to set, not slam, down your mug, feeling decidedly not Calm and Relaxed as the tea promised. Suppose it’s not miracle shit though, is it? You would not be a good candidate for a horror movie because you fearlessly storm over to the window and throw it open (it wasn’t locked in the first place; you’re quite terrible at remembering to). You stick your head out and glower at whatever irritating mischief is happening out here, ready to rip the fire escape off the side of the brick building.

You’re greeted by something cold and hard (and indubiously metal, judging by how it felt against your sternum) shoving you back into your apartment, sending you sprawling unceremoniously to the hardwood floor. A string of profanities ready to leave your tongue, you sit up and adjust your robe in an attempt to preserve a modicum of your modesty. The rant dies in your throat as red eyed claws grip the threshold of your pre-war window and it’s almost comical the way He maneuvers himself in, far too large to be making these sorts of entrances. Standing up to his full height before you while you’re still sitting dumbfounded on the floor reminds you of just how impressively built he is. You manage to pick your jaw up, but your ass remains firmly planted on the wood.

“Uh… you could have just used the buzzer, dude. I have a front door, you know,” you sputter out, brain blitzing in pretty much every way possible. Your thoughts are racing and eventually they settle on the most important thing you can think to ask in that moment: “... Why aren’t you wearing a shirt.” You can't help the way your eyes are drawn to his broad chest, gaze lingering on the vast scarring that spills out from the metal contraption clamped around his midsection.

Otto very graciously closes the window behind himself. Or at least his little robot accomplices do it for him. You still aren’t sure what’s going on with that- the whole AI thing. Not even a blip on your radar of concerns at this point. “Didn’t want anyone to see me come in. Your building has a camera on the front, facing the street.”

“That’s why you’re shirtless?” You ask dumbly. Interesting method of camouflage. “What? No- what? It doesn’t matter- listen to me. I need you to do something for me. A small favor.”

He doesn’t seem to notice the compromised position he put you in. Typical. Gathering up your broken pride, you get up and tighten the tie of your robe a bit. It isn’t until then that he has the decency to look a smidge embarrassed and you hope you didn't just give him a free show on your way to getting to your feet. “You literally just broke into my apartment and now you’re asking for a favor? We barely know each other!”

“Less complicated when there's nothing personal involved yet, plus- you let me in,” he corrects you. You wish he would stop doing that. You wish he would stop meeting with you like this, under weird and mysterious circumstances. Even though it's only been like twice. You're already over it.

“You threw me across the room!”

“Touche.”

Otto does not apologize and you did not sincerely expect him to. The look on his face reads more like the cat that got the canary than regretful. You feel as though you’ve come to recognize that expression on his face and you also feel as though you don’t much like the fact that you’ve enough encounters with this man that you can recognize a damn thing about him. “What… could you possibly need me to do for you? I am not robbing a bank.” You just want to get that out into the open as soon as possible.

“I don’t need your help robbing a bank,” he snorts as if the idea is preposterous and you take a moment to feel insulted. Wow. Okay. You could totally rob a bank if you wanted to. Deciding to not comment on your wounded ego, you let him get to the point. Otto pulls something out of his inner coat pocket. It's some kind of rolled up paper and you think at first maybe it's a newspaper or magazine. He unfurls it onto the coffee table and holds it open with two metal claws on either side so it doesn't ravel itself back up.

You realize it's a blueprint. "This is… Oscorp," you point out stupidly, brow furrowing in confusion. There's levels to what's happening here. Layers upon layers, melding together with rot and decay and you can all but smell it. But there's something missing, something that would tie all of the wackjob shit that's been happening to you and around you together. It feels like when you have a very particular thought and then walking into another room makes it dissolve from your head. You're trying to grasp for it, to fit the puzzle pieces together, but it's just out of reach.

"Yes. It is. I have a small task I need you to do," Otto starts off, metal phalanges pushing his glasses up onto the top of his head as he looks over at you. For the first time, you can see his eyes in the light. The warm amber feels like a mockery- you have seen his cruelty in action.

"Where did you get this?"

"Does it matter?" Of course he'd say that.

Your fingertips brush against the metaphorical wayward chain link. It's right there. You just have to grab it and pull it back to you, like the anchor of a ship before it can set sail.

He's talking. You aren't listening. He's tracing a finger over the schematics. You don't see it. Realization washes over you in a heart-dropping tsunami. The voicemail you got from Oscorp plays like a broken record in your mind. 'Hello, Y/N. We're calling in regards to your employment status here at Oscorp. Unfortunately, due to a breach of security, we are having to make staffing cuts and are going to have to let you go. We appreciate your time and effort and wish you the best of luck in your next endeavor.' It didn't make sense at the time. A lot of things didn't. You replay the scene of poor David, desperately pleading for his life at the hands of the man hunched over here, just in your living room. You mentally re-run it over and over like bad 80s sitcoms on late night television.

"Lab Coat Guy…"

You don't realize you whispered it out loud until Otto goes silent.

"What?"

You slowly look at him and take a single step backwards, shaking your head. The company embroidered on David's lab coat hadn't been clear to you in the moment- but it's crystal in hindsight. Oscorp. "You got me fired." Your tone is flat, until anger flashes through you, like a streak of lightning through a dark, moonless sky, illuminating all of things that didn’t make sense before.

"It doesn't matter. What I need you to do-" He's so nonchalant, so blasé that it only stokes the embers of frustration until there's a roaring blaze burning beneath your skin. It's all about him, what he needs, what he wants. He has the nerve, the audacity, to keep traipsing into your life, kicking you while you're down and then ask for favors? You want to say all of that to him but unfortunately for you, you're an angry crier. Your outburst of bravery at him the last time you saw each other had surprised even you- but now there's so much more emotion roiling around inside you.

"No. No, no. Fuck you. You got me fired! I can't- I can't not have a job, I have to pay rent! You could get me arrested for just talking to you!" Oscorp had you canned to tie up any potential loose ends before anymore Davids could slip through the cracks. You think about how scared the poor dude must have been, threatened into stealing blueprints from the biggest corporation in the city, for one of the most infamous criminals. You don't know how they found out you were even remotely involved and you don't want to know.

Tears are streaming down your cheeks and once the floodgates have opened you're very familiar with how long it's going to take to close them again. After all you've been bottling this up since you found out, too disappointed to even tell any of your friends or family.

Otto appears taken aback, to say the least. He even looks like he's at a loss for words; that's a first. You know he could kill you where you stand in the blink of an eye, but in that moment you don’t even care. You’ve been trying so hard for so long to get on your feet, to do things for yourself and get away from the past. You moved across the country, you left everything behind, you got a damn dog. It seems like every time you manage to take a step forward in life, you’re knocked flat on your ass, apparently literally sometimes. It isn’t fair. Things don’t come easily to you, you’ve always had to work for them. You aren’t wealthy, you aren’t a supergenius, you’re just… you. The job at Oscorp was good money and you really felt like you were getting your shit together for a while.

“They’re not who you think they are,” he says finally, so calmly, with such carefulness about his words, that you sniffle pathetically and look up at him. He doesn’t look nearly as pleased with himself as you thought he might. And here you’ve been, under the impression that he gets off on hurting people. “Oscorp. I’m not… I’m not just doing this for me. You have to understand that.”

The schematics are furled up and tucked away. You make the mistake of meeting his eyes. Maybe it’s just the tears that blur your vision, but you swear you see a softness there before they’re hidden away again by his glasses.

He lingers at the window.

“I hope you’ll reconsider.” And then he was making his exit, even taking care to gently close the window on the way out. But he raps on the glass with his knuckles from where he stands on the fire escape and you know the look of confusion on your tear-streaked face speaks for itself. Otto points to the latches on the window. ‘Lock it.’ He mouths before he’s gone, presumably to wreak havoc and harass other unsuspecting young women that don’t want anything to do with him.

You thought everything had come together- but the more sense you make of it, the less you seem sure of the bigger picture. You aren't even sure exactly what he wanted you to do.

You’re left with an endless bounty of questions, and not enough answers to satisfy any of them.

#otto octavius x reader #doc ock x reader #fanfiction #otto octavius #doc ock

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undead-moth · 3 years ago

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Spiderman NWH Thoughts

~Spoilers Ahead~

It’s been less than a week and I’ve already seen the movie twice. Normally, I wouldn’t bother looking deeply into a Marvel movie as I’m not a Marvel fan and Marvel movies are normally poorly written. But I am a Spiderman fan and it’s my opinion that this Marvel movie is not poorly written so here goes.

I always had a personal dilemma with the portrayal of the villains in the previous two series, primarily because most of the villains (with the exception of Flint/Sandman, who is an exception for another reason which is he is the only villain from the original series to both make amends with Peter and survive) became villains as a result of mental illness/trauma/disability or some combination of the three, and yet, not only were they villains but they were not portrayed even as sympathetic villains. Which - I know it’s possible to get into a whole debate on the difference and whether or not villains should ever be sympathetic or even whether or not villains should always be sympathetic but I’m not getting into that right now.

What I’m interested in discussing, is the fact that Norman Osborne/Green Goblin, Otto/Doc Ock, Dr. Connors, and Max/Electro, four of the villains that return for NWH, were all mentally ill/traumatized/disabled in the original series, and the fact that this was the catalyst for the villainous actions is never taken into consideration narratively speaking, and as a result, the means by which Peter defeats these villains, is by attacking and subduing, not by helping/supporting/treating, which is what you would do in real life when someone who is mentally ill/traumatized/disabled does something harmful as a result of their symptoms and not as a result of any purposeful decision to do harm.

Cut for long post:

The green goblin serum made it so that Norman Osborne experiences symptoms very comparable to DID, or possibly Bipolar Disorder or Psychosis, and/or Schizophrenia. Otto Octavius loses control of the arms after the chip in his neck is destroyed, and they begin to control him and speak to him, again, closely resembling other mental illnesses. At the same time, the same event that causes the destruction of the chip in his neck causes the death of his wife, which means that not only does Otto experience mental illness (or a superpowered/natural metaphor for mental illness) but he has also been traumatized, he has just lost his wife in an incident he personally caused.

Dr. Connors on the other hand is initially motivated by “fixing” his amputated arm, which is already so problematic on it’s own but becomes even moreso given that the film doesn’t address how he lost his arm. In the movie, his sole motivation is not wanting to be disabled, however in the comics, his arm amputation is a result of an injury he sustained in war, where he worked as a surgeon for soldiers. Meaning, had they portrayed Dr. Connors the way he’s portrayed in the comics, he would very obviously have PTSD. Now, the way disabilities are portrayed in most fiction is problematic and frankly, inaccurate particularly in the case of disabilities that were caused by physical trauma. As in, disabilities a character isn’t born with, such as losing an arm in war.

The problem with the portrayal of characters with disabilities that are the result of physical trauma, (as I understand it, based on what I’ve read - I have no personal experience, so correct me if I’m wrong) is that abled writers rarely make the distinction between a character struggling to accept their new disability and struggling to live with ongoing trauma as a result of the incident that caused the disability. The trauma someone struggles with as a result of say, being in a car crash, is separate from the disability someone may have ended up with in the same car crash, and what happens is, abled writers portray all the character’s trauma as being the result of the new disability, not the car accident, which paints disability in a really offensive light, and often suggests that being disabled is the worst thing that could ever happen to someone, and that being disabled is a source of nonstop misery, and that every disabled person given the chance would do anything to no longer be disabled - which is, essentially, exactly what happened with Dr. Connors in The Amazing Spider-Man. I mean, they didn’t even acknowledge that there was any other contributing factor to his motives besides wanting an arm.

Abled writers also often fail to address that disabled people struggle with ableism, and a lot of the struggle abled people perceive to be as a result of living with a disability, wouldn’t even exist if they weren’t stigmatized for their disability, or frequently inconvenienced or excluded as a result of their disability, and therefore they wouldn’t have any reason to wish they weren’t disabled or resent their disability. So basically, what I’m trying to say is, Dr. Connors’s origin story is extremely problematic as is, and then, when he becomes the Lizard and makes turning all of New York into lizards his priority, because that would make everyone stronger, healthier, “better” - in the real world, we call this eugenics, and disabled people are one of the number one targets of eugenicists - it’s just, extremely offensive to make a disabled character’s number one goal to erase all disability and weakness through eugenics. I can’t emphasize that enough.

And finally, there’s Max/Electro. From the beginning it’s clear that Max is neurodivergent in some way. I would say that he is the only one who’s potentially not mentally ill, but rather, autistic. But if not that, he could have a personality disorder or extreme social anxiety too. In any case, he struggles to connect with others, speak up for himself, and form healthy relationships with people he both does and doesn’t know. And what makes him a villain, is that he sees Spiderman get the attention and admiration that he personally always wanted, and more importantly, he believes Spiderman is responsible for stealing that attention and admiration from himself. Meaning, his harmful behavior is the direct result of the symptoms he experiences as a result of neurodivergency. I will say that it’s clear that Andrew Garfield’s Spiderman felt sympathy for Max/Electro and attempted to deescalate not simply subdue, but that attitude didn’t last and in the end Max dies anyway.

Norman dies by inadvertent suicide. Otto dies by self sacrifice for the greater good. Dr. Connors doesn’t die but is involuntarily cured. And Max dies.

So when villains’ origin stories are the result of mental illness, trauma, and disability, what does their suicide, sacrifice, death, or involuntary treatment say about real life mentally ill, traumatized and disabled people?

That they’re harmful, and should either be “fixed” or dead.

Which, finally brings me to Spiderman No Way Home.

Initially, the villains are portrayed in much the same way as they were in the original series. But crucially, Tom Holland’s Spiderman doesn’t attack Otto immediately and gives him the opportunity to stop what he’s doing, and then, once they are fighting, he subdues Otto safely and informs Otto that he will not be permanently subdued. He will be let go as soon as he decides to stop being violent. The tone shift happens when Peter finds Aunt May sitting with Norman and talking to him. Here Norman gets the chance to explain himself and admit that he’s not always in control, and he doesn’t remember what happens when he’s not in control, and Aunt May refers to him as, “Lost” and tells Peter that it’s his responsibility to help these villains. Which ends up being the entire premise of the movie.

All three Spidermans get together and design cures for these villains. Which - I know! I just got done saying that I don’t like that Dr. Connors was cured involuntarily in The Amazing Spider-man. But there is a difference between portraying that cure as a defeat that protects everyone else and portraying that cure as a victory that protects Dr. Connors. The key difference here is this treatment is being done with the “patients’” wellbeing in mind first. How do we know? Because Peter doesn’t have to cure them. He literally has a magic button that will send them back to their original universes, where they will proceed to die and/or be defeated, doing no further harm to his own universe. Actually, it would be about one million times easier for him to just press that magic button than go through the trouble of curing these villains who have all done enough harm for him to rightfully not want to help, and yet he still does, because he doesn’t want them to die. He wants to help them.

And what happens? Otto is initially resistant, and attempts to fight Peter off from connecting the new chip, but the moment he connects it Otto is immediately grateful and even mentions that the “voices” are gone. Which reminds me so much of my schizophrenic aunt, who goes off her meds all the time, who can’t be forced to go back on her meds until she attempts harming herself or others, and when she inevitably attempts to harm herself, is put back on her meds and is always, always so grateful.

I’m acknowledging right now that this is a complicated issue, and an ethical and moral gray area. The Free Britney movement spread awareness to a lot of people about Disability Rights and the consent and autonomy so many disabled and mentally ill people are denied and I am not trying to say that, “Force them back on their meds,” is the right thing to do or even something that anyone should be allowed to do. But the fact remains that a lot of mentally ill people like my aunt truly want to be medicated, but while unmedicated will refuse medication, and who choose to stop taking their meds for more complicated reasons than, “I’ve decided I personally prefer to be unmedicated,” such as the stigma I mentioned earlier, which happens to be my Aunt’s number one reason for going off her meds - she doesn’t want to be someone who has to take meds. She wants to be “normal” and in a world where mental illness and by extension medication for mental health isn’t normalized that is never going to be the case for her.

But anyway, I’m getting a little sidetracked so back to NWH. If you haven’t already heeded my warning about spoilers, please heed it now.

So, Norman Osborne kills Aunt May. When he does, true to Peter’s character, Peter doesn’t want to save Norman he wants to kill Norman. Which is understandable. He’s grieving. He’s just gone through his own trauma. And killing Aunt May pretty indisputably makes Norman a Villain and a murderer and to a lot of people, therefore deserving of death.

But Peter doesn’t kill Norman. He tries - but Toby Maguire’s Spiderman stops him. He stops him because, as he says to Tom Holland’s Peter, “We have to cure them all.” He says this like a question, as if to say Don’t we, Peter? Because he knows that even though Tom Holland’s Peter has already agreed to make cures for them all, that he’s secretly still wishing that he could kill Norman Osborne. But older Toby Maguire’s Spiderman knows they can’t do that. It’s not right to kill out of vengeance, it doesn’t help you feel better, and he personally regrets not being able to save Norman the first time. He knows this Tom Holland’s Spiderman will regret not saving Norman out of vengeance.

And what happens the moment Norman is cured? He says, “What have I done?” which indicates to the viewer, he knows he’s responsible for the harm he’s done.

Which is important too. It’s not just important to support mentally ill people, but it’s also important that mentally ill people acknowledge that just because they are mentally ill doesn’t mean they’re excused from all wrongdoing, or exempt from taking responsibility and apologizing. It’s a fine line for a writer to walk - to portray mental illness sympathetically, acknowledging that sometimes people do harmful things for reasons that are outside their control, but that those same people still have to take responsibility, apologize, make up for it, and try to do better in the future.

Along with Norman acknowledging that he’s done something, when Max is cured he apologizes to Andrew Garfield’s Spiderman, and Otto ends up helping the Spidermans against the other villains while they’re still being violent. This shows the viewers that these people aren’t inherently evil, and that with patience, and support, and care from others, they are good on the inside, and will choose to do good in the future.

The only one who doesn’t take any step toward making up for the harm he did was Dr. Connors, but I think the writers’ hands were tied here. I don’t think the actor who played Dr. Connors in The Amazing Spider-Man came back for this film, and so they couldn’t have a scene in which he speaks or does anything after he’s changed back into a human. But even if that’s not it, or even if we decide to analyze the film without taking into consideration that it’s a work of fiction or that there are real life contributing factors that create limitations for the narrative, I’m okay with Dr. Connors not taking any step of redemption since the other three did. In real life, not everyone will make that choice to be better. Not everyone will apologize. Not everyone will take responsibility. But in this story, three out of four of them did, making it the majority, which I think is what matters most. That and the fact that even though Dr. Connors didn’t show any signs of remorse or attempt to redeem himself, he is not further condemned for this and the narrative doesn’t suggest that Dr. Connors therefore didn’t deserve the help he received, or that helping others when they are struggling with mental illness or trauma is somehow a waste - which I think lesser writing would have done.

On a couple of final notes, Matt Murdock is introduced in this film. Though the film doesn’t reveal that Matt is Daredevil, many marvel fans in that audience would know, and potentially he will be revealed as Daredevil later in the MCU. The significance of this is that Matt Murdock is blind as a result of physical trauma, and he’s a hero, and he’s being introduced in a movie in which the premise is that the superhero saves and helps the mentally ill/traumatized and disabled villains. I don’t think he was introduced for this reason. I think it’s a happy coincidence that now, anybody watching this has the opportunity to not only learn that mentally ill/traumatized/and disabled people that have done harm still deserve help and second chances, but that they don’t have to ever become villains at all - they can become heroes.

Lastly, Toby’s Spiderman is the one to cure Norman, and he’s the one who blocks Tom Holland’s Spiderman from killing Norman with his own glider. Andrew’s Spiderman is the one that cures both Max and Dr. Connors, and he’s the one to catch and save MJ when she’s falling. The villains are cured, and have the opportunity to find redemption. But the other two Spidermans also get to find their own redemption, for their own culpability in the harm done. Granted, they were never the villains, but they could have prioritized curing the first time and they didn’t, and obviously, Andrew’s Spiderman doesn’t need to be redeemed for not being able to save Gwen - but that doesn’t change the fact that Andrew’s Spiderman believed he needed to redeem himself for that. As a result, both Spidermans find closure which I think is also important - Toby and Andrew’s Spiderman’s might not be mentally ill or disabled, but they are traumatized and they are portrayed as helping themselves in this movie - which is important for traumatized people to see.

This movie sets an example for what people with mentally ill/traumatized/disabled loved ones and peers should do when that person is harmful as a result of their symptoms, and what mentally ill/traumatized/disabled people can hope or attempt to do for themselves when they are struggling with what has happened to them or what they are experiencing.

This movie also redeemed the terrible portrayal of these villains in the first two series and it is so cathartic.

All I can say is that I am so impressed, and bravo. This is what I want from my superhero movies going forward. No Way Home has set a new standard.

#spiderman #spider-man no way home #spider-man no way home meta #spider-man no way home spoilers #spider-man nwh spoilers #smnwh spoilers

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ultrahpfan5blog · 3 years ago

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Retrospective Review: Spider-man 2 (2004)

So after the success of Spider-man, I remember being pretty excited when Spider-man 2 came out. I seem to recall that at the time, I liked it but not as much as the first movie. Over time I grew to love the movie. Having watching the movie last night, its pretty obvious why. This is a pretty melancholy and thematically deeper movie than the first. It gets pretty heavy and it was probably not enough action for early teens me. I think Spider-man 2 now easily ranks as the best in Raimi's trilogy. I think it holds up quite well, even in terms of effects. Whereas the first Spider-man had some visibly dated effects, Spider-man 2 effects hold up reasonably well for the most part. I think Homecoming and Into the Spider-verse are the only other two Spidey movies that compete with this one for the best Spider-man movie. At the moment, this ranks as my favorite live action Spider-man movie, above Homecoming, but just below Into the Spider-verse overall.

This film really does a lot to get you to sympathize with Peter Parker. The film hits Peter with one thing after another for majority of the movie and I really felt for him because he just can't catch a break in this film. Harry hates him for siding with Spider-man, he can't keep up in studies, MJ resents him for not keeping his commitments and is now dating Jameson's son and is also engaged to him, he gets fired for his Pizza delivery job, Aunt May is losing the house, he doesn't have the money to pay rent in time, his mentor turns into a supervillain etc... The film really delves into the idea about whether Peter really wants to be Spider-man or is he just doing it out of guilt to honor his Uncle. Is it really right for him to have to give up his life and his happiness for being Spider-man. Its heavy stuff and there actually isn't a whole lot of Spider-man action in the first half of the movie. But the film also re-establishes that Peter is a hero to his core when he is tormented when he sees a mugging happening and has to walk away and then when he goes into a burning building to save a child. The film also does an excellent job of furthering Harry's obsession with Spider-man. He keeps spiraling throughout the movie, having a blowout with Peter at a party in front of high society, to the point of willing to risk the city and safety of Peter just to get Spider-man. The film leaves Harry's story at a perfect cliffhanger. The film also gives Aunt May and Peter a toughing dynamic. You can feel Aunt May struggling and you can feel Peter's guilt over not being able to help her. There are a couple of lovely scenes when Peter confesses his part in Uncle Ben's death and then later where Aunt May gives him a pep talk about why Spider-man is important.

The action in this film is pretty spectacular. I do think this film has the best Spider-man action sequence to date which is the train sequences vs Doc Ock. That is honestly a flawless action sequence. The first Spider-man vs Doc Ock sequence is also pretty outstanding. If I have one minor complaint, it is that the climactic action sequence, while good, is probably one of the weaker ones in the movie. The film has a pretty melancholy mood overall, but there is some humor to be found through J Jonah Jameson.

There are a few other issues. My general sticking point with this trilogy has always been MJ. I don't consider this Kirsten Dunst's fault but the movies always seem to write MJ as a really flaky. She seems to bounce around from guy to guy. In this film she's bouncing back and forth between Peter and John Jameson. Even though she's aware she has feelings for Peter, she still accepts John's proposal. I do like that the film carries that point that MJ has an inkling that Peter is Spider-man due to their kiss at the end of the previous film. But again, she is forced into a damsel in distress type situation and even when she's trying to help in the final fight, Doc Ock literally knocks her away without even looking. There also some moments of cheesiness. Less compared to the first movie, but its still there like the "Raindrops keep falling on my head" montage. The one thing that always bothered me was that Harry never bothered to ask why his father died and I don't know why Peter didn't just come out and say that he didn't kill Harry's father, because he quite literally didn't. Also, this isn't really a complaint so much as a curious observation, Peter, Harry, and MJ all feel distinctly older then their canonical ages. May mentions it being 2 years since Uncle Ben died, which would make them 19 years old, but they all feel like they are characters in their mid 20's.

In terms of performances, like Willem Dafoe in the first movie, Alfred Molina is the film's MVP. A guy which four mechanical arms can come of kind of silly. Molina plays the role very differently to Dafoe. He plays the role very straight and gives the character a lot of emotional weight. Whereas Dafoe played for the gallery with great effect, Molina gives Octavius a distinctly grounded and human feel. He is less of a villain and more of a tragic victim of his own hubris. The early scenes where he interacts with Peter are quite warm and friendly and you genuinely like Octavius and you feel for him throughout because the arms are what are influencing his brain and his decision making. Therefore his redemption towards the end of the movie feels very earned. I can't wait to see him again in NWH.

Tobey Maguire also delivers his best performance of the trilogy. You feel he has matured as a performer. He is able to deliver sincerity and internal conflict quite wonderfully. He has that natural emotional vulnerability that immediately makes you feel for Peter as he gets pounded by life from every angle. He and Kirsten Dunst also sell their romantic connection. You can feel every bit of his feelings for MJ and his torment of having to lie about his emotions. All the other performances continue to be strong. Despite issues with the characterization, I think Dunst does a good job with what she has. JK Simmons as J Jonah Jameson continues to be a scene stealer. Rosemary Harris brings a lot of heart to Aunt May.

Overall, this film was a step up from the first, which was a good one itself. This film managed to bring more depth to the characters and deliver a drama with some excellent action set pieces and another terrific villain. Sam Raimi again utilizes some of his horror movie influences, particularly in the hospital scene where the arms attack all the doctors. He does an excellent job. In terms of second movies in a superhero trilogy, I can only think of TDK and Captain America: TWS that have delivered a better second movie in a trilogy. X2 and DOFP are probably on a similar level. This ranks around an 8.5-9/10

#spider man #spider-man #peter parker #mary jane watson #uncle ben #aunt may #harry osborn #j jonah jameson #tobey maguire #james franco #kirsten dunst #rosemary harris #jk simmons #alfred molina #doc ock #otto octavius #spider man 2 #spiderman

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sagebaileyspeaks · 3 years ago

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A Spoiler-Filled No Way Home Review

For all the readers out there, this is going to be a SPOILER review of Spiderman: No Way Home. I will give fair warning before it happens and will put it under a cut, but please be warned that I will be discussing major plot points in the movie, the ending and things not shown in the trailer.

And I say these things because I want to provide some context for this review with a few points. The first, I haven't felt moved to review a movie since Space Jam or In the Heights (whichever came out first.) The second, I haven't physically been to a movie theater since I took my son to see Sonic the Hedgehog back in February of 2020. The third, I have only gone back to the theater and paid extra money to see a movie more than once a handful of times. Those movies were: Into the Spiderverse, Kubo and the Two Strings, Infinity War and Black Panther. The fourth, Spider-Man is the first movie I ever saw in theaters and he is my favorite superhero of all time.

So when you read this review please use those points to understand, where I'm coming from, what my biases are, and what expectations I might have had going into this movie. And ALLLL of that said, I f*cking loved this movie, I can't wait to see it again, it addressed all of the issues I had with this iteration of Spiderman on-screen and it took me back to the place of being six years old and seeing Spiderman for the first time.

Easily

⭐ ⭐ ⭐ ⭐ ⭐ ⭐ ⭐ ⭐ ⭐ ⭐ ⭐ out of ten stars.

And now...spoilers below the cut:

This is a whammy of a movie that starts off pretty standard for MCU Spiderman (lighthearted, jokey, fun!) and then around the one hour mark becomes an emotional, heart-wrenching tragedy.

One of my major gripes with this version of Spiderman was that I felt like he had things far too easy. He was sponsored by Tony Stark, taken in by the Avengers, loved by the public. There was no sense of accountability or responsibility, and none of his actions really had consequences. He was just cool, young Spider-boy. Costing along with everything going okay, but then he receives his "Uncle Ben" moment, when Goblin kills May at the beginning of the second act.

And let me tell you.

Another gripe I had not with just Spiderman, but the MCU in general is the use of CGI fights. I will always call back to that scene in the original Spiderman when the Green Goblin is just viciously whopping Peter's ass. It felt raw, it felt real and honestly six year old me didn't know if Peter was gonna make it through and they bring that rawness back with the presence of the Goblin. He beats the ever-loving shit out of Peter Parker, kills his Aunt and later in the movie tries to kill MJ.

And to that point, the Goblin is easily the best villain in this movie. He's very Joker-esque in that he essentially wants to make Peter bitter and mean by taking away the things he loves the most to the point that towards the end of the movie when Peter is getting his revenge he doesn't even seem to broken up about the punches to the face.

But I know what you want to hear. You want to know if Tobey and Andrew return and yes, dear reader, they do.

And another full disclosure, I've never really been a fan of Andrew Garfield's Spiderman. I thought he was an asshole.

However, seeing the three of them interact you begin to understand the strengths and weaknesses of each iteration of Spiderman. Tobey's was incredibly sincere and has the most balance out of all of them, but seemed the most tired. Andrew's was rough, but felt driven to do the right thing and was bitter about his losses. And Tom was just starting out, and was learning his lessons the hard way. You can't save everybody, you can't have everything, and being Spiderman comes at a cost where you have to learn that being responsible means understanding the impact you have on the lives of people you love.

I won't spoil the ending because it really needs to seen and experienced--but what I will do is list my favorite moments:

1. Doc Ock capturing Peter and saying, "you're not Peter."

2. Doc Ock revealing that Norman is dead

3. Peter using math to trap Dr. Strange in the Mirror Dimension

4. The first fight between Peter and the Goblin

5. The entrances of Spiderman 2 and Spiderman 3

6. The talks between the Spideys

7. Peter seeing Doc Ock and them having a small heart to heart

8. Peter 2 (Tobey) stepping in to stop Peter 1 (Tom) from killing the Goblin

9. Doc Ock saving the Spidermen from Electro

10. Peter 3 (Andrew) saving MJ and then crying because he couldn't do the same for Gwen

This movie works because it essentially makes the bold move of turning Tom’s trilogy into a slow burn. Homecoming, Far From Home and now No Way Home are now a complete origin story that sets Spiderman up to be the superhero that Spiderman is supposed to be.

This is the most excited I’ve been about Spiderman in a LONG time and me and mini-me will be seeing the movie again next week!

Side Note: I’ll also post an essay I had written and was supposed to post before the movie came out, but wasn’t able to. 😅

#spiderman #spiderman spoilers #spiderman no way home #no way home #no way home review #no way home spoilers #spiderman review #movie review

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self-proclaimed-chaotic-good · 4 years ago

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Science & Faith | Carlton Drake x Reader (4/?)

Words: 1860

A/N: I wish I could add links to this post, but I'm afraid of it not showing up in tags like it had done several times before. The masterlist for this story should be pinned on my blog and my full masterlist is in my bio.

Warning: This whole chapter is set in an AU until the end, which leads to the end of The Invisible River Part One.

The Invisible River Part Two

- Alternate Universe One -

At the end of the conference, Tony managed to find Carlton in the lobby. He turned and opened his mouth at the same time as Tony.

“No, you go first,” Tony insisted.

“Have you-”

“No, I go first,” he interrupted, ignoring Carlton’s glare, “Have you noticed that Rolling Pin and Doctopus aren't here?”

Carlton sighed, pushing his frustrations down to address the situation. “Yeah, they seemed to have left half way through the conference.”

“Honestly, why even bother coming if you’re just going to leave anyways? The beginning part is always pointless, who comes just for that?”

“Maybe he had an emergency,” Carlton suggested.

Tony cleared his throat, looking around to see if there were any more people lingering in the lobby before pulling Carlton on the side. He brought up his watch and projected a surveillance camera, showing Spider-man swinging towards a large building.

“Know which building that is?” Tony said, pointing at it, “That’s a laboratory built under Fisk’s name. What do you think Spandex-man is doing there?”

“Why are you coming to me with this? Aren’t you Iron-man?” Carlton asked, already on the move to leave.

Tony frowned at him, blocking his escape. “Dude, don’t you wanna check it out? Be a hero for once? I know that you were keeping tabs on ol’ Kingpin for a while.”

“I am far from being a hero, Stark,” Carlton said tiredly, pushing past him. Tony sighed, turning to fall into step with him.

“And yet, look at me. We don’t exactly fit the golden boy Captain America role, but it’s good intentions that count, right?”

“My so-called good intentions got my fiance killed, Stark. Look into it with your spider friend if you’re itching for action. I’m not looking for redemption.”

“And yet, you followed me to my car,” Tony said.

Carlton blinked, finding that he was unconsciously following Tony’s lead and was now standing next to his red shiny sports car. Tony pulled out his sunglasses and smirked, climbing in.

“Well, get in, loser, we’re going crime-stopping.”

On the way to Fisk’s labs, Tony contacted Spider-man about any updates on Fisk’s or Doctor Octavius’s movements. He confirmed that they were both in the labs for the past several hours. From the activities that he had observed, they seemed to be building a large machine deep within the labs with power sources leading underground.

“So, we’re just gonna go without backup?” Carlton asked in disbelief.

“No,” Tony scoffed, “We are the backup.”

Carlton sputtered, gesturing to himself. “And what am I supposed to do?”

Tony sighed, digging around the back of his car for a box, unceremoniously tossing a watch at Carlton. He caught it, inspecting it closely before putting it on.

“One button has a taser, the other a communicator. There’s also a little thing I added to check the cameras in the area, then there’s the iron-glove with the same functions of the ones on my suit. Oh, also, a flashlight. Can’t forget that. Plays music, too, if you want. You’re a fellow genius, Drake, you’ll figure it out.” Tony patted his back. “Watch, we’re going to be besties once this is all over.”

They waited until nightfall to start moving. Spider-man updated them on Fisk’s whereabouts, saying that his car was driving away from the building. They all met up and readily agreed that this didn’t have to be a big issue that reached the news. Secrecy wasn’t exactly Tony’s style, but he could take it seriously when he needed to.

Spider-man swiftly subdued the security guards on patrol while Tony hacked into the cameras. One guard had slipped away from his post to check on the others. Carlton quickly lifted his watch and pressed a button, hoping that it was a taser. Bright light blinded the man, making him shrink away. Carlton used this to press another button, successfully tasing him. Tony looked down at the guard and nodded over to Spider-man. He quickly lifted the man and placed him with the others that were wrapped in webbing.

“There’s an elevator near here that goes below ground level,” Tony whispered, “Or we could go through the warehouse. It’s currently empty.”

Tony waved a security guard’s keycard over the reader and Spider-man headed in first. The other two crouched in the corner and watched through the camera on the masked hero, hoping to find something. The way down to the labs below ground went smoothly and it made them feel uneasy. Each floor was brightly lit and suspiciously empty. As he reached the lowest floor, Spider-man paused in his tracks.

“Someone’s here,” he muttered.

Tony activated his iron glove and readied to go in, eyeing the camera through Carlton’s watch. Spider-man entered a narrow hallway leading towards a single metal door. His spider-senses were off the charts as he approached, turning the knob slowly. It was unlocked.

The camera suddenly blurred, followed by a loud smack. A woman in a lab coat, eyes covered by goggles, and four metal arms stretched out from her back, stood in front of him. She smirked, one arm reaching over out of the camera’s view, before pulling back and revealing Spider-man’s mask clutched in its metal claws.

“Ah, that’s a no-no,” he warned.

“Such a young man,” she cooed, an arm holding him yanking him away from the wall and slammed him into a large chair in the room. Metal clamps held his arms and legs in place, rendering him incapacitated as she casually dragged an office chair over. “I’m sure you’re curious about what we’re doing here.”

“It’d be nice if you told me,” Spider-man said.

“I’ve seen the technology you use, so I think you’d appreciate what I’m about to tell you,” she said, standing up and approaching the wide window facing a massive chamber, a large machine in the middle. “Oh, where are my manners? I'm Doctor Olivia Octavius. My friends call me Liv, but my enemies- ” Her metal arms wriggled about, one reaching over to Spider-man to touch his head “- They call me Doc Ock.”

“Nice to meet you, I’m Spider-man.”

“Young man with manners. You see, Kingpin commissioned what I call a Super Collider.”

“A Super Collider?” His eyes drift towards the chamber, landing on the panel on the ceiling. Must be where the power source is. If he could just get to it… “And what does this Super Collider do?”

Tony tapped Carlton on the shoulder and they began to make their way down. Halfway down to the chamber, they started to hear footsteps. The guards were resuming their patrols. Carlton activated his iron glove, metal pieces extending from the watch to perfectly wrap around his hand, and the two scientists continued on with caution.

Doc Ock smirked at this question, turning back to her capture. “Since you came all this way, why don’t I show you what it does? It makes a magnificent light show. I’m sure you will love it.”

A few guards got in the way of Tony and Carlton’s descent, but they were swiftly taken care of and hidden. Just as they reached the narrow hallway that they saw through the camera, a booming whirring resounded from the room. They shared a panic look and rushed towards the door with their iron gloves ready.

They were met with the sight of a man that looked to be in his late twenties with ruffled brown hair wearing Spider-man’s suit. He looked to have been beaten around since that last time they had checked his camera. Tony shot a glare at the woman as her fingers fluttered over the control panel, unphased by their entrance.

“Curiosity killed the cat, fellas,” she commented as the roaring from the collider grew stronger. An atmospheric meter lowers down, a tiny light blinking.

“Stop the machine, Octopus!” Tony warned, aiming his iron glove at her.

“Or what?” She raised an eyebrow, making eye contact with him as her finger lowered towards a blinking button. “If you shoot, who knows what that will do to the machine. Could be interesting…”

A metal arm shot out before his glove could charge. He staggered back and shot out a beam, redirecting the arm and causing it to crash through the glass. She glared, whipping around to check on her machine while Tony rushed over to the revealed Spider-man.

“How you doin’, kid?” Tony whispered, releasing his limbs from the chair.

“Been better,” Peter grunted. “Is this a good time to tell you that my name’s Peter?”

“Why are you doing this?” Carlton demanded as an energy beam shot to the middle of the chamber.

“Carlton Drake,” she scoffed, turning to him, “Don’t you wish you had another chance to make things right? The choices we’re given are paths that lead to an endless possible points in our lives. Each path we choose to walk down opens up to new paths to choose from. Thus, creating- “

“Alternate realities,” Carlton finished.

Doc Ock nodded. “What if you had chosen to listen to your dear (Y/n)- “

“Don’t you dare bring them up! I made my choice and I’m living with it.”

“But what if you have access to that other choice. You can go to another reality where you’re living happily with (Y/n).”

Carlton’s eyes narrowed. “Is this why Fisk wanted you to build this?”

She shrugged. “Well, it’s something I’ve always wanted to tap into, but to have a desperate millionaire fund my little project is always a treat.” She flinched and a metal arm shot out towards the door where Tony was escaping with Peter. “You’re gonna miss the show.”

The air in the chamber began to warp, gradually forming into a portal. Doc Ock moved to give the machine more power before being intercepted by a spider web shooting out from Peter. Chaos erupted in the room, a blur of spider webs, energy beams, and metal arms flying around. The lights began to flicker, drawing their attention back to the machine that was almost at maximum power. Carlton attempted to disengage from the fight to stop the machine when one of Doc Ock’s arms swung out and knocked him out of the window.

“No!” Peter shouted, jumping to catch Carlton as he got sucked into the growing portal.

“You’re not going anywhere!” Doc Ock growled, another arm grabbing Peter and slamming him through the door.

Carlton felt the Collider pull him in. It wasn’t like a vacuum, but more like being swept away by an invisible river. He aimed his iron glove towards the ceiling panel to shut it down, then froze as he risked a glance into the portal. He saw a flash of your face, alive and happy.

Suddenly, the portal grew rapidly in an unstable manner and he could just see Doc Ock through the shatter glass with a gleeful grin on her face, a fist gripping onto a lever as she increased the power to its maximum capacity, lights flickering and surging around her. An energy beam from Tony’s iron glove shot out towards the panel before the portal swallowed Carlton completely, his body feeling as if swept away by an invisible river.

#carlton drake x reader #carlton drake #venom #venom imagine #marvel imagine #science & faith series #riz ahmed imagine #into the spiderverse inspired #marvel #doctor carlton drake #dr carlton drake

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wonderfulworldofmichaelford · 4 years ago

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Psycho Analysis: Spider-Man Movie Villains

(WARNING! This analysis contains SPOILERS!)

Spider-Man, Spider-Man, he does whatever a spider can. And what do spiders seem really good at? Amassing huge quantities of hatred and animosity! True to the wily arachnids that inspired him, Spider-Man has quite the impressive gallery of foes, one that I might say rivals Batman as the greatest in comic book history with how colorful, crazy, and creative they are. Even villains derivative of one another, like Hobgoblin and Green Goblin or Carnage and Venom, manage to carve out unique niches that help make them fun and memorable.

And thankfully, these qualities usually translated pretty well to film! I’ve talked about how good Mysterio, Vulture, Kingpin, and Prowler are before, so now it’s time to cover the others all in one fell swoop! From the Raimi trilogy, we have Green Goblin, Doctor Octopus, Harry Osborn, Sandman, and Eddie Brock/Venom; from the Andrew Garfield duology, we have Lizard, Electro, Rhino, and Harry Osborn again; and leftover from Into the Spider-Verse we have Olivia Octavius, Tombstone, Scorpion, and that film’s brief take on Green Goblin! Oh, and why not throw in Riot from Venom while we’re at it, because he sucks way too much to get his own Psycho Analysis.

Motivation/Goals: A lot of villains are motivated by the classic motivation: revenge. All of the Green Goblins manage to have this as a main part of their actions, making them remarkably consistent and very easy to discuss. The Norman of the Raimi films wants to take out his anger at being frozen out of his own company, and his son wants revenge for his death, while the Harry of the Garfield films wants his vengeance because Spider-Man wouldn’t help cure him of his otherwise incurable disaease that would kill him (a fact made worse because Spider-Man is his actual best friend, Peter Parker, who is coldly condemning his pal to death). The only one who doesn’t really fit is the Spider-Verse take on Green Goblin, and that’s more because he has extremely limited screentime and spends all of it fighting Peter and being scary as hell.

Eddie Brock/Venom is a very interesting case as both halves of the character are motivated by different reasons. The symbiote half is, of course, motivated by the fact that Peter has tried to rid himself of it via using a church bell to kill it. Eddie, on the other hand, has the most absolutely hilarious motivation ever: He wants Peter Parker to die because Peter exposed him for submitting fraudulent pictures to J. Jonah Jameson. Eddie literally breached journalistic ethics but apparently Peter’s to blame for exposing his literal, actual crime! And he prays to God for Peter to die! This version of Eddie is cartoonishly hilarious.Finally, we have Max Dillon, AKA Electro, who is lashing out at a world that did nothing but belittle and demean him, giving him a far more sympathetic motive for revenge.

Kurt Connors is an interesting halfway point between the Doc Ocks and the villains above, because he is not really evil and his whole transformation came about for altruistic scientific reasons, as he tested his serum on himself because they were going to test it out on the public without consent. While the serum drives him mad, he initially only goes after those who were going to use his formula with people as guinea pigs.

Interestingly, the two Doc Ocks contrast each other. While both of them are doing evil deeds for scientific reasons, Otto Octavius is being forced by his tentacles and genuinely wishes to make the world a better place otherwise. Olivia, on the other hand, is a gleeful sadist who doesn’t care who she hurts as long as she can get some sort of scientific knowledge from it.

Sandman is interesting case because his motivations are entirely sympathetic and despite being the man who killed Uncle Ben, it was entirely accidental and he always regretted it. He only ever wanted to get money to save his daughter. It’s really hard not to sympathize with a guy who turned to desperate measures because the American health care system sucks even in a universe where a dude dressed in a bright red suit swings around New York.

Then there are all the rest. Aleksei Systevich, AKA Rhino, is just a criminal, and has barely any screentime to establish a motivation beyond that. This is especially hilarious because the ads really hyped this guy up, only for him to get maybe five minutes of screentime, with most of it at the very end of the movie before the credits (we don’t even get to see his final battle). Tombstone and Scorpion are basically just lackeys for Kingpin, with little established beyond that. Scorpion almost shows up entirely out of nowhere, just popping in for the fight at Aunt May’s house and then the final battle. And then there’s Riot, who just wants to start a symbiote apocalypse on Earth.

Performance: Willem Dafoe, Alfred Molina, and Thomas Haden Church as Green Goblin, Doctor Octopus, and Sandman in the Raimi trilogy are, in a word, iconic. Dafoe brings a gleeful, cackling hamminess to the Goblin that perfectly suits him and manages to steal every single with how delightfully, cartoonishly evil he is combined with some hilariously chummy moments with Spider-Man. Molina as Ock goes in the opposite direction of hamminess, where instead of making Octavius cartoonishly evil, he gives him this air of gravitas to the point where he somehow manages to make this villain with giant metal tentacles that are controlling his mind come off as sophisticated and serious as Hannibal Lecter. Church meanwhile just looks eerily perfect as Sandman, as if he were ripped straight from the comics and put onscreen, and then of course there’s how well he manages to sell the emotional moments of the character.

The Harrys are a rather mixed bag, sad to say. James Franco and Dennis DeHaan aren’t really bad actors, but they unfortunately have the problem of living in the shadow of the actor who played their dad (Franco) or being in a really awful movie with a terrible script (DeHaan). Franco at least makes up for this by being hilariously, cartoonishly evil to the extent of his dad in the third Raimi film, but DeHaan unfortunately falls rather flat. Topher Grace as Venom is a choice that seems baffling until you realize Raimi cast an actor like this on purpose because he hates Venom so much he didn’t want to give him any dignity.

Jamie Foxx as Electro seems odd at first, but I feel it’s actually a great casting choice, and despite how unbelievably stupid the script is, he’s actually able to do a fairly good job. If his character was in a better movie, he’d probably get a lot less flak (and he’ll be getting his chance soon enough, apparently). Overall, he’s the best part of the Garfield films. Rhys Ifans and Paul Giamatti as Lizard and Rhino are serviceable, but neither film they’re in really gives them much to work with. Giamatti at least gets to steal the show with his brief scenes by being an absolute ham, but Ifans is sadly a bit forgettable in his role (though not for lack of trying on his part).

Now onto the Spider-Verse ensemble! Considering how I gushed over her delightful performance as the Wicked Witch of Westview in WandaVision as well as the fact she is solely responsible for me resurrecting this series from its long hiatus, it should come as no shock at all that Kathryn Hahn as Olivia Octavius is just perfect. Controversial opinion, I know, might get some flak for this hot take. Jorma Taccone as Green Goblin, Joaquin Cosio as Scorpion, and Marvin Jones III as Tombstone all do well for what they’re given, but it’s clear most of the love among Kingpin’s henchmen was given to her (and Prowler, but he got his own review where I talked about how great he is).

Oh, right, Riot. I forgot about him. Riz Ahmed, who plays the human villain Carlton Drake I forgot to mention because he’s incredibly boring, is a really good (and sexy) actor. Unfortunately, he doesn’t get to be quite as good and sexy as an actor like him should be in his dual role. In an interesting subversion of how things usually go, he ends up being rather bland compared to the hammy, bonkers hero. This was Tom Hardy’s show, and no one was stealing it from him.

Final Fate: The Raimi films were all made during a time when, if your name wasn’t Magneto and you were a superhero movie villain, you were dying, a trend I’m certainly glad is finally starting to die off. Thankfully, Green Goblin manages to stick around and posthumously influence Harry, so in his case it’s not so bad. Harry and Doc Ock both manage to overcome the darkness in their hearts at the end and sacrifice their lives to help save the day, while Eddie dies after becoming such a simp for the symbiote he leaps into it while Peter is blowing it up. With Sandman, Peter actually has a touching reconciliation with Sandman at the end, forgiving him for the death of Uncle Ben before Sandman dissolves into dust and floats away on the breeze. And no, this is his power, not Thanos’ snap reaching across time, space, and dimensions; Sandman actually gets out of these films alive.

The other villains actually get off easier, as most of them go to jail. From the Amazing Spider-Man films, DeHaan’s Goblin and Rhys Ifan’s Lizard both end up in prison, and it’s safe to assume that the villains of Spider-Verse are going to jail alongside Kingpin. Octavius was hit by a bus, sure, but considering how popular she ended up being it would be really dumb to have that actually kill her. With Electro and Rhino though, it’s really ambiguous, the former because he’s made of electricity and the way he was defeated means it is possible he survived, and the latter because we never actually see the outcome of his battle with Spider-Man. If the film they were in was actually good and warranted sequels, we may have found out what their true fates were, but at the very least Electro is moving over to the MCU alongside Molina’s Doc Ock.

Oh, right, forgot Riot again. He dies.

Best Scene/Best Quote: I’m combining these this time just to make it easier on me, because in at least in a couple cases the two are the same.

Green Goblin has a lot to choose from, to the point where it’s easy to cop out and just say every scene he’s in is amazing. I’ve always been fond of his chummy chat with Spider-Man on the rooftop, or the scene where he terrifies Aunt May, or the scene where he attacks the parade and vaporizes the board of directors with pumpkin bombs.

Dock Ock is easy: the train battle. This might be one of the best action scenes in any superhero movie ever, and since he’s the villain in it, it almost goes without saying..There’s a reason this scene is singled out so often.

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Eddie Brock and DeHaan Goblin actually have their best scenes also be their best lines. Eddie praying for God to kill Peter Parker and DeHaan!Harry screaming “YOU’RE A FRAUD, SPIDER-MAN!” after Spidey refuses to give him a life-saving blood transfusion are just so absolutely hilarious and memorable that you can’t hate them.

Aside from the powerful forgiveness moment at the film’s end, I think it’s really indisputable that the best scene from Sandman, and perhaps the Raimi trilogy as a whole, is the scene of Sandman’s creation. Words really can’t do it justice, so just watch:

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Electro’s best moment isn’t even actually part of the movie, unless you want to count his rendition of “The Itsy-Bitsy Spider.” No, his is from a Tumblr post, proving definitively that Electro’s power can not be contained.

For Olivia, I’d say either of the reveals for her are great. You can go with the twist that she’s the Doc Ock of Miles’ universe, or the twist that she might have fucked Aunt May. Either way, you can’t really go wrong.

The rest of the villains… yeah, I’ve got nothing. At least with Rhino you can say his entire time on screen was fun, but the rest? Nope. They’re kind of just there.

Final Thoughts & Score:

Green Goblin

Where to begin with this guy? He is everything I look for in a great villain: he’s hammy and cartoonish, he can be terrifying and threatening when he wants to be, he has a ridiculous yet memorable costume, every word out of his mouth is hilarious and memorable, and he’s played by an amazing actor. It’s hard to dispute that Doc Ock is the best villain in Raimi’s trilogy, but Goblin is definitely the most fun. If you thought he’d get less than a 10/10, you thought wrong.

Doctor Octopus

Aside from Green Goblin, Doc Ock is Spidey’s most iconic and memorable foe, nd this adaptation of him does not disappoint. By making him a more tragic and somewhat anti-villainous figure and putting him in the hands of someone as awesome and talented as Alfred Molina, they managed to make such a cartoonish villain retain that comic book silliness while still being a legitimately imposing antagonist. I suppose it helps that a director who knows how to balance silly and serous like Raimi helps. It’s absolutely not a shock that the MCU wants to bring Molina back, because really, I can’t see anyone making the dubious doctor nearly as cool as the 10/10 performance Molina gave.

Harry Osborn

Franco’s Harry has an interesting arc, but one that doesn’t make a whole lot of sense under scrutiny. Frankly, his descent into villain is handled well but when he actually gets to be a villain in the third film, things fall apart.. But at any rate, he gets to be cartoonishly hilarious while he pettily ruins Peter’s life, so I think a 3/10 is warranted just for how goofy he is.

Eddie Brock/Venom

For the longest time, I hated Eddie Brock, but loved the Venom symbiote for its fantastic design… A design hampered by the fact Topher Grace keeps sticking his face through the symbiote and talking in his normal voice. But then one day I remembered Eddie literally prays to God for Peter Parker to die, and I realize that as crappy as this version of Venom is, he’s undoubtedly hilarious. A 3/10 mainly because of how hilariously bad he is, though the design of the symbiote is unironically great. Shame Grace kept sticking his face through and that Raimi hates the character.

Sandman

Sandman is a villain who deserved a better movie. Sure, Spider-Man 3 is fun and funny, but a character with this much depth and emotional weight deserved a film of the caliber of Spider-Man 2. At any rate, he adds a bit of class and dignity to the proceedings, and Thomas Haden Church really nails it. He’s a 9/10 for sure.

Lizard

Lizard is just a very boring villain, which is a shame because Lizard is not a boring villain in the comics and other media like the cartoons. I don’t really know if he was the best choice for Spider-Man’s first outing; I’ll at least give him that he’s a more inspired choice than doing the Green Goblin again, but that doesn’t score him higher than a 4/10. As boring as he ends up being, that library fight was pretty cool and had a great Stan Lee cameo, so I can’t say he’s the bottom of the barrel.

Electro

Electro is a villain who desperately deserved a better movie. While his backstory as a nerdy fanboy who got kicked around by the world is nothing new, or fresh, or original, Jamie Foxx manages to make the character work fairly well even though almost everything around him is unbelievably stupid. The fact he managed to make “Don’t you know? I’m Electro” sound cool and badass is a testament to his skill, and thankfully he’s coming back in the MCU in some way, so I guess Electro’s power can not be contained to a single movie. Still, this iteration only manages to get to a 6/10, because while all the elements of greatness are there, he’s hampered by the abysmal writing.

Rhino

Paul Giamatti certainly looks like he’s having a blast here. His attitude is almost infectious, but alas, his time is too brief to bring any great joy, and his jarring appearance out of nowhere at the end of the film certainly do him no favors. Still, Giamatti keeps Rhino from sinking any lower than a 5/10.

Harry Osborn

This Harry is just a joke. His arc makes no sense, his actions are unbelievable, and he ends up looking like a really poor Warwick Davis Leprechaun cosplayer. The only thing of note about him is that he’s a Harry who becomes the Green Goblin before his father, something that doesn’t happen very often, and that’s not enough to score this loser higher than a 2/10. Not even killing Gwen Stacy makes him any more impressive, and that’s a real shame.

Olivia Octavius

Olivia Octavius is widely beloved by just about everyone who sees the film.. myself included. This is just a really fun, clever twist on Doctor Octopus, and it’s the sort of character you really hope gets a Harley Quinn-level break into becoming an iconic character across multiple forms of media. Kathryn Hahn’s fun performance and the wonderful design and fight sequences really make Olivia a 9/10.

Tombstone

Tombstone is a villain you might actually forget is in the movie, which is a damn shame. He’s an albino black man, a badass bodyguard, and has a striking design, but he gets a single line of dialogue and is tasked with bodyguarding a man who not only has cyborgs under his employ, but who murdered Spider-Man with his bare hands. Tombstone ultimately feels really superfluous, which is a shame because around the same time Into the Spider-Verse came out he had a very memorable and well-liked appearance in the Spider-Man video game. It’s a real shame but I gotta give this version of Tombstone a 2/10.

Scorpion

Scorpion has a lot of problems of Tombstone above, but he makes up for a lot of his flaws by having a really cool and striking design. Does it really make him a great villain? No. He’s not particularly well-characterized and he’s really just there to look cool and give Olivia backup. He’s a 4/10 at best, saved from being lower only by his awesome look. Looking cool really can get you far in some cases.

Green Goblin

Out of all the really minor villains in Spider-Verse, this version of Norman might be the best. His role is tiny, only appearing during the scene where the Peter Parker of Miles’ universe gets killed, but his battle with Spider-Man is what sets the entire plot in motion. His cool and terrifying design definitely help make him stand out enough to earn at least a 6/10.

Riot & Carlton Drake

Look, there’s a reason I kept forgetting these guys. They’re not memorable in the slightest. Venom may be a fantastic work of art, but that’s because Tom Hardy kills it in his dual role as Eddie Brock and the Venom symbiote. Drake is just a boring corporate villain, the kind I hate talking about and the kind I’d only ever even bother mentioning in a review like this. And Riot is just a generic Big Gray CGI Monster for the hero to have a final battle with. Neither of these two are particularly interesting, and neither deserves more than a 2/10.

That’s it, right? There can’t be any more villains, I must have covered them all. Well, not quite. There’s one more character who is most certainly an antagonist and who I really, really want to talk about. And you’re absolutely not going to believe who it is.

You ready?

Psycho Analysis: Emo Peter

“Now wait,” you may be asking, “Emo Peter? Really? How does he count as a villain?” Well, as Schafrillas pointed out in his video on Spider-Man 3, Emo Peter is actually the antagonist for much of the second act. Peter, influenced by the symbiote, becomes a raging jackass and hurts and alienates everyone around him by being a colossal douchebag, not to mention how violent he gets as Spider-Man. This is very much an extreme case of the hero’s greatest enemy being themselves, because literally, Peter’s enemy in the chunk of the movie with Emo Peter is his own overinflated ego

Motivation/Goals: I mean, at the end of the day, it’s still Peter. He still wants to do the typical Peter Parker stuff, he’s just a jackass while he does it.

Performance: It’s Tobey Maguire busting loose and getting to act like an absolute doofus. There is literally nothing about this that isn’t amazing and I’m sorry if you can’t see it.

Final Fate: Peter eventually comes to realize that maybe the symbiote making him act like an egomaniacal tool is not a good thing, and so rebels against it, ultimately leading him to the roof of a church where Eddie Brock is praying for him to die and, well, the rest is history.

Best Scene:

Best Dance Move:

Final Thoughts & Score: Emo Peter has gotten a bad reputation over the years, but Schafrillas’ video really made me rethink why. As he puts it, Emo Peter comes off not as someone cool, but as what a loser thinks a cool person would be (which makes him still a loser). It seems fairly likely that the audience isn’t supposed to be rooting for Emo Peter or finding him cool, but instead finding him insufferable, ridiculous, and funny. We’re supposed to be laughing at Peter’s egomania, at his absurd and hammy showboating, not cheering him on and desiring to emulate him.

And that ultimately makes it more satisfying when Peter overcomes his ego and decides to rid himself of the symbiote. It might seem like I’m giving Spider-Man 3 a lot of credit here, but even Sam Raimi half-assing a movie wouldn’t leave things completely devoid of underlying brilliance. Emo Peter isn’t a villain in the sense that he’s some superpowered antagonist, he’s a physical representation of the negative impacts of fame and ego on Peter. This is Peter letting go of what makes him a hero and just reveling in being an absolute jerkwad to everyone around him.

I love the memes as much as everyone else of course, but Emo Peter is also a pretty clever symbolic foe. But even though I’m giving him an 8/10, we all know the real reason why he’s scoring so high:

Ok, but that’s it now, right? No more Spider-Man villains? Well, maybe for now. But don’t forget:

There’s gonna be Carnage.

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hellzyeahwebwielingessays · 5 years ago

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Was Norman Osborn ‘flanderized’?

It has been said that over the years, particularly following his resurrection, that Norman Osborn became a caricature of himself. Does this accusation carry any weight?

First things first, let’s define what the terms ‘flanderized’ and ‘flanderization’ actually mean. The most comprehensive descriptor can be found on TV Tropes. To quote an excerpt from them:

The act of taking a single (often minor) action or trait of a character within a work and exaggerating it more and more over time until it completely consumes the character. Most always, the trait/action becomes completely outlandish and it becomes their defining characteristic.

When it comes to Norman Osborn the accusations hinge upon his evolution into a villain who:

Just wants to kill Spider-Man

Is behind everything bad in Spider-Man’s life

Makes Spider-Man the point of all of his schemes

The latter point is often accompanied by referencing Norman’s original goal of taking over New York’s gangs. The idea being that originally Norman wanted to take over the gangs and then was ‘flanderized’ into being obsessed with Spider-Man.

To an extent these accusations carry merit, but not really the way detractors might think.

I’ll begin by addressing the two most obvious counterpoints.

Firstly, the idea that Norman’s vendetta and schemes against Spider-Man are ‘outlandish’ is a hollow critique in context.

Almost everything in super hero comic books is outlandish, even accepting the pseudo-science of super powers. The majority of super villains could make more money legitimately than as criminals.

Common crooks would be unlikely to go to jail if any masked vigilante beat them up. The world at large would never resemble the real world on any level if even one super powered being existed as it’d redefine what it meant to be human. Not to mention the confirmation of life on other planets, other dimensions, parallel universes, alternate timelines and the existence of deities and the afterlife.

So Norman Osborn’s schemes (the most ambitious of which was the ‘Clone Saga’) are only outlandish if we take it on face value. In context, it’s merely a large-scale version of super villain standard practices. After all, perhaps the two greatest Doc Ock stories of all time respectively involved him having secretly built an underwater base out of a James Bond movie and attempting to nuke New York City.

As for Norman ‘just’ wanting to kill Spidey, I’ve already addressed that in an earlier article.

Moving, on let’s talk about Norman’s schemes. Did they all revolve around Spider-Man? Well, even dismissing his post-OMD stories or stint as an Avenger, this is simply not true.

Osborn actually retained his gangland aspirations in the 1990s. In fact that was his primary concern in Europe between his ‘death’ and ‘resurrection’.

When he returned to America during the ‘Clone Saga’ it was revealed (through exposition provided by the Rose) that Osborn was still very much involved in acquiring power through the criminal underworld.

Spider-Man: Made Men #1 revolved around various gangland figures vying for power. Osborn was unsurprisingly among the figures depicted.

There was some follow up to this in Peter Parker: Spider-Man #95 when the Kingpin tried to assassinate Norman as a rival gangster.

So Peter was absolutely not at the root of all of Norman’s schemes.

Nor was he behind the majority of the bad things in Spidey’s life. Between 1997-2007 alone Norman had nothing to do with:

The Chameleon learning Spider-Man’s identity

The resurrection of Doctor Octopus

Mary Jane’s death being faked by her stalker

Spidey’s duels with Morlun

The Venom symbiote seeking out new and more violent hosts, including Mac Gargan

The destruction of Peter and MJ’s apartment and of Aunt May’s home

Peter’s failing health and death in ‘The Other’ arc

Aunt May being shot courtesy of the Kingpin

So when we look at the facts, Norman just doesn’t fit the definition of flanderization listed above. He’s far from a caricature of his early appearances. This is actually fairly uncommon in general among Silver Age characters. The vast majority of all characters who were around back then have developed at least some layers of complexity since then; if anything that’d be the opposite of flanderization if anything.

This is unquestionably the case for Norman Osborn. Through stories and issues like Spectacular Spider-Man Annual #14, ‘Revenge of the Green Goblin’, Spider-Man: Legacy of Evil #1 and ‘A Death in the Family’ Norman Osborn’s personality and psychology has been immensely expanded upon from what it was between 1964-1973.

But I do not deny the idea that Norman has changed and become more focused upon Spider-Man himself. Initially his primary goal was the conquest of the criminal underworld, through which the death of Spidey was a means to an end. But from the 1996-2005 (and arguably since Superior Spider-Man v1 #4 in 2013) Norman’s primary concern seems to have been his feud with Peter.

However, these accusations against the character seem to treat this change as unnatural. As though lazy writing simply kept exaggerating one trait of Norman’s and consequently made that the crux of the character.

In reality though this change in priorities was entirely organic. Norman grew gradually more and more frustrated with Spidey’s interference until he decided to just find out who he was and destroy him. Upon learning one another’s identities that was when Norman and Peter’s relationship fundamentally changed. It became less about gangland aspirations but far more personal. This didn’t occur due to lazy writing across time, it was an evolution during he same run that invented Norman. And it happened around 2 years following his debut.

From there Norman was integrated into Peter’s social circle and Harry was unwittingly caught in the center of their feud. After ASM #40 every time Norman remembered he was the Goblin he wasn’t going after Spidey to rule the gangs, he was pursuing a personal vendetta against him. ‘The Death of Gwen Stacy’ in particular displayed this as Norman sought revenge for Peter giving him amnesia and for the harm he felt he’d done to Harry.

So, Norman’s priorities had fundamentally pivoted within less than 10 years of his debut. And it wasn’t due to lazy writing that ‘drifted’ him in that direction. It was an entirely believable evolution of what had began as a practical consideration and then spiraled into a personal blood feud.

Detractors though might argue that Norman became a caricature upon his return in 1996.

Even if he was manipulative and at times nasty in the Silver Age, it wasn’t nearly to the same extent as his portrayal in the 90s and beyond.

This is perfectly true. And you know what, the same can be said of the impact he had upon Peter’s life. He became far more integral to shaping Peter’s life from the 1996 onwards than he’d ever been in the Silver Age.

On these counts perhaps it’d be accurate to argue Norman became flanderized.

At which point I must ask…why is that a bad thing?

Let me give you an example that’s a bit left field.

In the 2010 animated show ‘Scooby-Doo: Mystery Incorporated’ the classic Hanna-Barbera meddling kids got a major update. The most starkly different character though was Fred Jones. In the original and majority of Scooby-Doo shows Fred had almost always been both the de facto leader and the guy who planned the traps.

He was also the single blandest character of the main five, even excusing the pretty simple personalities of the rest of the gang.* SDMI however outright flanderized him. He went from the guy who happened to be in charge of setting the traps to someone literally obsessed with traps.

And you know what? He became immeasurably more interesting as a result. Suddenly he had a role within the group as the eccentric, the strategist and his interest in mysteries had more specificity as he actively looked for chances to ensnare would be ghosts and ghouls.

Whilst it’s often not the case, SDMI’s take on Fred proves that flanderization is not inherently a bad thing.

This is certainly true in Norman’s case. His vendetta with Spider-Man, status as puppeteer and framing as the ultimate evil within the Spider-Man universe has been used to great effect over the years.

As a puppeteer and manipulator he was given greater scope to attack Peter and his loved ones, thereby making him a far more dangerous villain that Spidey couldn’t just knock out with a punch.

His framing as an ultimate evil also helps render Peter’s heroism in starker contrast. Everything that makes Spider-Man a true hero and champion for good is spotlighted whenever he confronts the sheer sadism and malevolence of Norman. Personally, I feel Peter Parker: Spider-Man #75 is the greatest example of this.

Call me crazy or old-fashioned but isn’t this an essential function of a villain in superhero fiction?**

And the emphasis upon the Parker/Osborn feud simply made their encounters more emotionally gripping. We all read Peter Parker’s adventures specifically for Peter’s character. We don’t want just any given person (spider powers or not) in the spotlight. We want to follow the ups and downs of his life, his relationships with his friends, family and colleagues, what job he’s working, where he lives, how he provides for himself and others, etc.

The Spider-Man story is in essence is the life of Peter Parker.

Having a villain who has a dramatic impact upon both halves of Peter’s life is more than creatively justifiable. It makes every encounter personal and if we read Spidey because we’re personally invested in his life then Norman’s vendetta renders him perennial relevant.

He is the villain who fundamentally tests the soul of our hero.

This isn’t to say that it wouldn’t be nice for Norman to be written with goals beyond Spider-Man. But my point is that making that his priority was never ever a problem in the first place.

In short, Norman Osborn was better for his flanderization.

*Noticeably Fred’s character has had the most reinventions over the years when you look at wider Scooby media.

He’s been a cool douchebag in the live action films, something of a conspiracy theorist in ‘A Pup Named Scooby-Doo’, a cameraman in ‘Scooby-Doo on Zombie Island’, etc.

The lack of uniformity to his character is very likely an indicator of how simple and bland he originally was; and has largely remained since.

On a symbolic level one could even argue that Norman’s elevation to this personification of evil was appropriate for an older and adult Spider-Man. As we grow up the world in general grows darker and more sinister, presenting challenges that test our inner resolve.

A great example from modern literature would be Harry Potter. Harry ages from 11-17 across the seven novels, each of which dials up the amount of pain, cruelty and death Harry must confront.

#Spider-Man #Norman Osborn #Harry Osborn #Green Goblin #The Green Goblin #Clone Saga #the Clone Saga #Peter Parker #Fred Jones #Scooby-Doo: Mystery Incorporated #Scooby-Doo #Aunt May #May Parker

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