#I just really love Taiwanese BLs

[respectthepetty]

I will fight everyone and all of their kin in defense of Taiwanese BLs.

I get the great friendships!

I get roasting the friend's rich husband.

I get joking around with the friend's boyfriend since they are the only two in their relationship who can cook.

I get tiny pouts.

And I get all the cute domestic moments.

Never change Taiwanese BLs.

[stormyoceans]

https://x.com/BLUPDATE2022/status/1813154105747251501

ARE THOSE THE ACTORS OF LI CHENG FROM HISTORY 4 AND RJ FROM MY TOOTH YOUR LOVE???????? [LOOKS IT UP ON MDL] HOLY SHIT THEY ARE

well let me tell you. i did NOT have this pair on my 2024 bingo card but this actually looks pretty interesting!!!!!!! the story doesn't seem to be the most original one, however the trailer is nice and both pairings seem to have very good chemistry (which isn't really surprising tbh). i do have some small reservations about it, mostly because while you can always count on taiwanese BLs to deliver great chemistry, they're not as good when it comes to storytelling imho, so it's unfortunately not the first time i ended up putting one on hold (and then.. never going back to it ;;;;;;;), but im definitely giving this a chance and hopefully it will turn out to be good!!!!!

TO THE WATCH LIST IT GOES!!!!!!!!!!!

[absolutebl]

Best 24 of BL 2024 - Quirky Awards

ONLY shows that ENDED their runs in 2024 are up for awards.

SHOCK & AWE AWARDS

1. Biggest BL surprise of 2024:

Cherry Magic Thailand. TayNew's version was truly a lovely experience and very much its own take on the original, an adaptation rather than a remake. I'm so relieved and grateful that GMMTV managed to pull it off, and sad it wasn't more widely available.

2. The “that country did WHAT?” award:

Meet You At the Blossom from China. From start to finish it is exactly as it claimed to be, wuxia BL, including more than the expected amount of sexual claiming (dubious consent to the point of rape) and actual kisses, wife language, floaty sleeves, you name it. FROM CHINA!!!

3. Biggest casting whoa! where did you come from? award:

Up & Poom in My Stand-In. I mean, WHERE did you two come from and how did this happen? Holy smokes. My goodness are we grateful!

4. That studio did WHAT now? award:

Youku putting Unknown out wide and easily avaiable on YouTube (for most of us). It's just really rare for a Taiwanese BL to get any kind of distribution. And to do that with arguably the best TaBL of the year and not some sad little mew mew? Amazing.

5. I’m sad you were ignored award:

Sugar Dog Life - such a charming JBL, so hard to find. I'm so sad it didn't get distribution. It's charming, one of my favorites of the year, worth tracking down if you can.

6. 2024 BL That Actually Made Me Lose My Mind Award?

I gotta be honest, it was The Sign. I was such a chaotic mess of a show but never once was I bored. It was the only one that drove me into memes and captions and silliness.

I did go a bit feral for a while over Love for Loves Sake and Wandee Gooday not to mention The Only One (until it went tits-up).

NARRATIVE AWARDS

7. Best story 2024:

Cherry Magic (Thai remake). I know, but it worked just as well in another country, if not better. I always enjoy this kind of magical realism concept (after all Color Rush is one of my all time favorite BLs) and despite the increased length, the pacing was solid on this one... even from Thailand.

8. Best narrative structure 2024 award:

Love For Love's Sake. A KBL isekai about a man who must win a game by convincing a reserved teen outcast to fall in love with him. Of course, that teen represents himself and his own unhappiness. I drowned in this show and liked it that way.

9. Best 2024 dialogue (script) award:

We Are, it was just so much fun. And so FUNNY.

10. Favorite scene 2024:

Like anyone needed to ask. Unknown, of course.

11. The most rewatchable BL of 2024 award:

We Are

It's just all the couples are so cute and the core friendship group is so charming and endearing.

ACTORS & CHARACTERS AWARDS

12. Best performance of a queer actor in a leading role:

no award this year, yeah the whole damn industry should be thoroughly ashamed of itself

13. Best pining 2024:

The Time of Fever. That feeding him orange while lying on the floor scene ALONE.

14. Best wingman 2024 (The Namgoong Award)

Yai in The Sign.

15. Biggest OMG I LOVE you boys together, YAY!

SailubPon from Pit Babe & This Love Doesn't Have Longbeans, from the softness of one to the health code violations of the other. Sure their shows are bonkers, but man are these two good at bonkers (and bonking).

With a nod to BigPark from Monster Next Door.

16. Most unexpected return of a BL pair? award:

OffGun. There were rumors that Off was out at the beginning of 2023. And then they came back with 2 shows in 2024 (Cooking Crush and The Trainee)!

17. Well aren't you two just the prettiest? award:

I dithered a lot (Babe's damn waist and OMG The Sign's sex scenes hawt), but in the end it had to go to GreatInn. They were just so good at showing their characters having FUN together. There is a lot of beauty in enjoying sex and another person's company. It's so rare to see that portrayed in a BL (and it shouldn't be rare).

18. LIFETIME ACHIEVEMENT AWARD

I'm actually giving it to OffGun. Ya know, where others falter, these two just keep going. It's kinda amazing.

RANDOM PICKS

19. Favorite Linguistic Moment of 2024:

The general flirtatious banter from Last Twilight.

20. Biggest disappointment of 2024:

Addicted Heroin (Thai version). Some of the very best original material + one of my favorite Thai actors (who I've been waiting eons to see in a BL again) and THIS was the result? They could have fixed China's worst BL mistake, instead the made everything worse. I'm gonna be bitter for a really really long time.

I gotta sat The Only One comes a real close second tho. And I'm still mad about Last Twilight, too.

21. Best Wardrobe/Prop Use 2023

Meet You At The Blossom - I love a pretty boy pissing contest over who has the biggest sleeves. Twirl you beautiful bastards, TWIRL!

22. Best Queer Rep 2024

Again, not great this year. I loved the fun sex and play in Wandee, but there were precious few femme characters, and in general it felt like we took some steps back from queerness this year. So I'm gonna give it to Deep Night, because at least they gave us honest poly for the first time.

23. Best Meta Trope call out

Love for Love Sake - Korea taking to task the Dead Fish Kiss when they are often the worst offender was...... amusing.

But Deep Night having male sex workers having to act like they were in a BL for a couple chicks...... literally gay for pay depicting gay for pay and just, well, that's frankly a gut punch. There was some sarcastic clapping on my side of the screen.

24. Well aren't you getting all Live Action Yaoi retro with your bad self?

Dominant Yakuza and Wimpy Corporate Slave gets my vintage af award. I flipping LOVED it. Would I recommend it? Only if you, yourself, are a bit vintage.

Final question: which of the 24 was the hardest for me to pick?

20 Biggest disappointment of 2024. Look I had some pretty high expectations of some returning pairs, some great ideas, and some intriguing remakes. 2024 was full of disappointments.

2022's Version of the Quirkies

2023's Version of the Quirkies

Remember I only pull from shows that were completely finished by the end of 2024.

(source)

[twig-tea]

2024 BL/GL/QL Round-Up Post

Since I did this last year, I thought for posterity I'd post another reflection on everything I watched that completed in 2024. For me, that means anything that started in 2023 but the last episode was in 2024 is on this list, but anything that was still be airing after 31 December 2024 11:59 my time (EST) is not on this list, even if the bulk of the show did air in 2024.

A few stats:

[The image is TL;DR for what follows lol]

I watched ~150 discrete pieces of new QL content in 2024 (series/films) that I tracked [It gets complicated with specials and split seasons but I did my best to be consistent]; plus 10 things that I would consider "adjacent". For contrast, I listed 110 pieces of discrete content in 2023; that's a 45% increase year over year!

This clocked in at an est. 900 hours of new BL/GL and adjacent content (up from ~600 in 2023--which also tells us that the content I tracked was a little longer overall because that's a full 50% increase in terms of hours spent).

The new content I watched came from 9 different countries [same as 2023]: (Cambodia [1], Philippines [2, down from 3], Hong Kong [1], Japan [32, up from 18 in 2023], Korea [20; was 19], Myanmar [2, up from 1], Taiwan [12, up from 6], Thailand [75; up from 56], Vietnam [4, down from 7]), China [5], and then 3 joint effort productions from Thailand/Korea [2] and Thailand/Taiwan [1]

This means just under ~47% of the content I watched on this list is from Thailand [close to the 50% in 2023]

So many more shows had multiple or varied distributions this year, but like last year ~85% of my content was on 3 platforms: YouTube [38%; down from 40%], GaGaOoLaLa [30%; up from 23%] and iQIYI [17%; down from 21%] Note: I'm in Canada and my access routes are sometimes affected by that.

As unbelievable as it sounds with all that, I did actually drop shows this year! I dropped 9 shows, which is I think more than I've dropped in my entire previous 20+ years watching queer asian media combined (that might be an exaggeration but I do really hate dropping shows); 4 Thai, 3 Filipino, 1 Taiwanese and 1 Japanese (listed at the very bottom of this post if you want to be messy). I didn't track any dropped shows in 2023.

And if you're wondering how many shows there are in the world in total, I am aware of an additional 11 shows I just did not have time to even start (2 from Cambodia, 4 from the Philippines, 3 from Thailand, and 1 each from Korea and Myanmar). That does not include the vertical short reels that I didn't track this year--see @ellsieee 's tracking post for these--as well as several GL shorts from JPC media YouTube channel and Sastra film app YouTube channel that I just have not had time to try or even keep track of, though I do peek in on them to see if there's anything that looks particularly good, and I do always link these folks in my GL round-ups.

All of this doesn't include re-watches or catching up on old shows, or non-QL queer media, or non-queer media (the hets sometimes do deserve rights); but does include films as well as shows.

I hope you all appreciate that with this much content, and with my general brand of being unable to make decisions, I really struggled to narrow down a top 10 list. What follows is the best I could do lol

Top 25 QLs I'd Recommend From This Year:

[Links are self-indulgently to what I thought was the most relevant post I'd made this year relevant to that series/media, mostly spoiler-free pitches]

She Loves to Cook and She Loves to Eat S2 (Tsukutabe) [GL]

Love in the Big City

Love For Love's Sake

Tadaima Okaeri [anime]

Ossan no pantsu ga nandatte ii janai ka (Oppan)

Marahuyo Project

Knock Knock Boys

Let Free the Curse of Taekwondo

Love is Like a Poison (Doku koi)

Ossan's Love Returns

Twilight out of Focus [anime]

At 25:00 in Akasaka

Cooking Crush

Cherry Magic [anime]

Cherry Magic Thailand

Takara no Vidro

Soul Sisters / Twin Rabbits [GL]

Perfect Propose

Unknown the series

Paradise of Thorns [film]

Blue Canvas of Youthful Days

The Secret of Us [GL]

Mr Mitsuya's Planned Feeding (Mitsuya-Sensei)

The Time of Fever

A Man Who Defies the World of BL S3

I tried to put these in some kind of order but honestly if you asked me to rank them the numbering would change all the time and I would combust. The ones I liked best are closer to the top of this list. I also debated back and forth on whether Paradise of Thorns counts as QL so many times. But in the end I decided the main character was queer and queer romance of a sort was at the heart of the drama, so I've left it in this list even though technically it should probably sit with the 'adjacent's.

Worth noting that though only ~20% of the content I watched was from Japan, ~45% of my favourites were from Japan.

+5 notable pulp offerings worth mentioning:

Bagan Beginning (Myanmar)

City of Stars (Thailand)

Gym Affairs (China)

To the Ex Who Hated Me (Korea, GL)

Under the Oak Tree (Vietnam)

I think I'll do a top 10 GL post separately since we had enough content to warrant a top 10 (yay!) but this is already long enough. I just want to take a second to acknowledge that this year was so much better than in 2023 when I didn't feel like I could recommend any of the new GL shows. Thank you content creators for better and more GL in 2024, please keep that energy for 2025!

Bonus: Not a QL but worth calling out:

How to Make Millions Before Grandma Dies (Thai film)

I saw both this and Paradise of Thorns in theatres during the Toronto International Film Festival and they were both so powerful! Extremely different tones but they surprisingly hit on similar themes, and very beautifully filmed. HTMMBGD was a complicated film filled with very rounded and complex characters, and I still think about it all the time. Very excited for more folks to have access to both of these soon.

Sidenote: The fact that I watched 45% more shows in 2024 than I did in 2023 and still managed to keep my rec list to 30 (*cough1cough*) does seem to back up the general feeling that though we had more content, we didn't have a proportional rise in good content. I do want to crunch those numbers in another post.

Double Plus Bonus: Best Older QL Content I watched for the first time in 2024:

Life as a Girl / Joshi-teki Seikatsu (Japan, 2018; I'm so sad I missed out on this one for so long due to misinfo, it is fantastic! Thanks to @so-much-yet-to-learn for helping propel me to this one)

Iron Ladies (Thailand, 2000; thank you for the rec, @happypotato48)

Nacchan's Secret / Himitsu no Nacchan (Japan, 2023; thank you @furritsubs for making this watch possible)

Can I Buy Your Love From a Vending Machine / Sono Koi, Jihanki de Kaemasuka? (Japan, 2023; thanks to @nicks-den for making this watch possible)

I Fell In Love with the Villainness (Japan, 2023; watched because of a convo with @pilanthitasanilaphat)

Doi Boy (Thailand, 2023; this one I had on my list and just had to work up the energy to watch, but it was a beautiful film and I'm glad I did)

BL Metamorphosis (Japan, 2022; another thank you to @furritsubs)

Dear Dad (India, 2016; thanks to @neuroticbookworm for the rec!)

Salty Blue / Kakenuketara, Umi (Japan, 2023, thank you again @nicks-den!)

[I can't believe I forgot this at first] The Miracle of Teddy Bear (Thailand, 2022, thanks for going on that journey and writing great meta with me and for calling me out for forgetting @lurkingshan!)

There is so much good content in the world and despite my best efforts I haven't seen everything! So grateful to the fansubbers and people who write about past shows so that those of us who missed them the first time still get a chance to see them.

In terms of my output based on all this input, I continued not lurking this year, and have enjoyed it very much; see my Top 10 posts from 2024 here as well as the content I linked in my recommended shows above--going through the process of adding those links really highlighted to me how much more I've written this year, and how much more motivated I am to write about shows I love. It's no surprise I had dedicated posts for most of my top shows! To highlight a few specific projects this year that I'm proud of, I participated in the Love in the Big City Book Club read and watch-alongs organized by @lurkingshan, which was such a fun project that I am grateful for, and I started my GL Odds and Ends posts (tagged with #gl recs) that I am still feeling out but am really enjoying seeing the impact whenever someone watches a show because they found out about it through one of my posts. I also made an appearance on several episodes of @the-conversation-pod and had an incredible time trying out different things in a quarterly 'Dispatch' and having some really rich conversations with @bengiyo and @shortpplfedup. I love this corner of tumblr that we've carved out for ourselves as a QL watching community, and I just want to say to everyone I've interacted with in 2024: Thank you, and wish good things for you all in 2025!

Full list of 2024 shows under the cut for anyone curious! [Mostly in order it completed but may be slightly off--if a special aired immediately after the final episode I only list them as one thing and count the airing of the special as the end date, for example].

Bagan Beginning

Love Senior the Series

After SunDown

VIP Only

Twins the Series

Last Twilight

Night Dream the Series

My Universe

Bake Me Please special episode

Sahara Sensei to Tori Kun / Mr Sahara and Toki-kun

Love for Love's Sake

7 Days Before Valentine

Happy Ending

PitBabe the series

For Him the series

Cooking Crush

The Sign

Chaser Game W

Playboyy the series

Perfect Propose

Ossan's Love Returns

Tsukuritai Onna to Tabetai Onna S2 / She Loves to Cook and She Loves to Eat

Cherry Magic Th

Dead Friend Forever

Sukidoya / Although I Love You and You / Sukiyaken kedo dou yaroka?

Healing Thingyan

Love You in Every Multiverse

Cherry Magic (anime)

Please Teach Me

Anti Reset

Jazz for Two

Blank the Series

A Secretly Love

To Be Continued the series

Love is Better the Second time around / Koi wo Surunara Nidome ga Joto

City of Stars

Sea You Soon

Human Too

Man Who Defies the World of BL s3

Gray Shelter / Gray Currents / Grey Current

Gym Affairs

1000 Years Old the Series

Love is Like a Cat

To the Ex Who Hated Me

Lady Boy Friends the series

Deep Night the series + Special Episode

Unknown the series

Memory in the Letter

You are My Star

Lonely Girls

Boys Be Brave / Roommates / I Can't Confess

Blossom Campus

Two Worlds

VIP Only special episode

Pray In Love

I Fell In Love with My Male Best Friend

Friend With Benefit

Stay By My Side special episode

23.5

You Made My Day

Living With Him

City Boy Log pt3

Anti-Reset special episode

The Time of Huan Nan

Xiao Xiang Yi Jiu

Inverse Identity

At 25:00 in Akasaka

Only Boo!

Tadaima Okaeri

Love Bully (Club Friday)

Blank the Series S2

Marahuyo Project

The Two of Us

Blue Boys

OMG Vampire!

My Stand-In

We Are the series

Ossan no pantsu ga nandatte ii janai ka / Oppan

Wandee Goodday

Under the Oak Tree

The Rebound

Love Enemy

Love in the Apocalypse

Bad Guy

My Marvellous Dream is You/ Dream the Series

Century of Love

Knock Knock Boys

Be Your Star

Meet You at the Blossom

BOYTOY

The Secret of Us

Ayaka is in love with Hiroko / Ayaka-chan wa Hiroko-sempai ni koi shiteru

My Love Mix-Up!

This Love Doesn't Have Long Beans

Love Sea the series

Cosmetic Playlover

City Boy Log s4

Sunset Vibes

Mr Mitsuya's Planned Feeding

Takara no Vidro / Takara's Treasure

Paradise of Thorns

I Hear the Sunspot

The Time of Fever / when your temperature reaches my fingertips

4 Minutes The Trainee

Twilight out of Focus

Happy of the End

The On1y One

Live in Love

Heaven'sxCandy

The Two of Us s2

Addicted Heroin

I Saw You In My Dream

Monster Next Door

Our Golden Times

Affair

First Note of Love

Battle of the Writers

Reverse 4 U

Unlock Your Love

Chaser Game W s2

Let free the Curse of Taekwondo

Uncle Unknown

The Hidden Moon the series

Love in the Big City [the series]

Smells Like Green Spirit

Red Whisper

Eccentric Romance/PT is Love

My Damn Business

Apple My Love

Dominant Yakuza and Wimpy Corporate Slave

The Nipple Talk

Kidnap the series

Every You Every Me

Jack & Joker

People Come Later

Blue Canvas of Youthful Days

The Loyal Pin

Let's Eat Together Aki and Haru 2

Love is Like a Poison / doku koi: doku mo sugireba koi to naru

Bad Guy My Boss

Haunted Hearts

Seoul Blues

The Renovation

Love Sick 2024

Love in the Big City [the film]

Spare Me Your Mercy / Euthanasia

Soul Sisters / Twin Rabbits

My Hot Butch Roommate

Whisper Me a Love Song / Sasayaku you ni koi wo utau

Boys' Christmas

Bonus: FuFuKnows bi-weekly shorts [every other week they post a short film, almost always a QL storyline; there were 23 in 2024]

And those QL-adjacent shows I mentioned [these are all adapted from QL media or starred QL actors or were part of a QL franchise but did not have a canon queer romance at the core of its storytelling]:

The Spirealm

Close Friend 3 - Soju Bomb

How to Make a Million Before Grandma Dies

Man Suang

High School Return Of A Gangster / I, a Gangster, Became a High Schooler

Kimi to Yukite Saku: Shinsengumi Seishunroku

Hoshikuzu Telepath

A Balloon's Landing

Peaceful Property

My Strawberry Film

The shows I dropped:

Time the series

Beside You

Sugar Dog Life

The Whisperer

Kiseki in Tokyo

Q18

Sky Valley

The Fate Trap

Dear Miss Becky

And as a shout-out in penance, the shows I had on my list to get to but haven't yet watched:

A Blue Sky (Cambodia)

Ending Friend (Cambodia)

Pretty Boys (Philippines - requires an access fee on VivaMax+)

Oh My Boo (Philippines)

The Perfect Heartbreak (Philippines)

Where I found You (Philippines)

My_ the series (Myanmar)

What's In My Bag (Korean GL - requires an access fee on Vimeo)

Complicated (Thai)

Club Friday: Hot Love Issue (Thai)

2nd Chance (Thai; not to be confused with Second Chance, this was a smaller 3-episode short series from this year)

Thank you for reading!

[ppeonppeonhan]

Top 10 2023 BL Kisses

If you've seen at least a couple BLs you know that some of these actors are either uncomfortable kissing another man or just didn't get enough practice kissing literally anyone. So when they get it right and genuinely seem to be enjoying themselves, it is worth noting. Soooo grab a pen and paper, and take some notes:

You Are Mine: This Taiwanese drama was problematique with the unbalanced workplace power dynamics, but this sweet upside down kiss was worth the wait.

Dangerous Romance: This may not have been their first kiss, but it felt like the most romantic. By this point, they'd shared many scenes filled with awkward sexual tension, but this one didn't have an ounce of humor, and Kanghan and Sailom just melted into each other's arms.

Kiseki: Dear to Me: The lighting for this kiss really emphasized their till-death-do-us-part themed dialogue where they vowed to die seconds apart.

Stay By My Side: Lackluster supernatural subplot aside, this Taiwanese drama delivered the most adorable kiss as the main lead was too nervous to give in to his desires without closing his eyes.

Be My Favorite: It took Kawi a frustratingly long time to pull his head out of his ass and realize he would be lucky to have Pisaeng even as a friend let alone a boyfriend. Thank goodness for Pisaeng's patience, cause ours was wearing thin.

Love Class 2: Very happy Ma Ru realized he had feelings for his bestie and wasted no time making that clear with an epic kiss that I have probably rewatched a dozen times.

Only Friends: Honestly, all of their kisses were incredible, because both of these actors went from supporting characters to lead roles, and did not skip a beat. There was no awkward beginner's kiss phase. Those intimacy workshops must've been lit.

Step by Step: Their kiss chemistry was on point, but the car scenes were the most memorable for how very possible they would've been caught in the act in the parking garage of their place of employment. Caution meet wind.

Wedding Plan: These two were about five seconds away from making a baby in that car, and if this were the omegaverse, they probably would've.

Hidden Agenda: There was hunger in that kiss on both sides, and it took every ounce of strength in Zo to shove Joke out the door once he made his intention clear.

[gunsatthaphan]

~ Monthly BL Breakdown: November 2024 ~ 

❄️ Happy December!!! 🎄

Disclaimer: ALL shows can be streamed here or here, as well as on Youtube and other platforms. For more info on where to watch what, check out this post! 

New breakdowns are coming at the end of every month - feel free to add stuff! -> previous breakdowns

What came out this month? (green = seen/currently watching)

🌟 Bad to Bed - November 2nd (Taiwan)

🌟 Love in the Air: Koi no Yokan (remake of Love in the Air) - November 3rd (Japan)

🌟 Our Youth - November 5th (Japan)

🌟 Episode 9. Nineteen, Eighteen (special ep) - November 9th (South Korea)

🌟 Cityboy_Log - Volume 5 - November 12th (South Korea)

🌟 All the Liquors (movie) - November 13th (South Korea)

🌟 Caged Again - November 15th (Thailand)

🌟 Secret Love - November 16th (Thailand)

🌟 Your Sky - November 17th (Thailand)

🌟 Mhom Ped Sawan (bl side story) - November 17th (Thailand)

🌟 The Heart Killers - November 20th (Thailand) ✅

🌟 Winter Is Not the Death of Summer but the Birth of Spring - November 20th (Thailand)

🌟 Actors High - November 21st (Japan)

🌟 Sweet Daddy - November 22nd (Cambodia)

🌟 Seoul Blues: Spin-off - November 24th (South Korea)

🌟 GMMTV 2025: Riding the Wave - November 26th (Thailand) ✅

🌟 Spare Me Your Mercy - November 28th (Thailand)

Monthly Likes / Dislikes

❣️ After barely having any hope for this year's gmmtv event, I'm very pleased with the lineup. I'm looking forward to most of the announcements and they really managed to give us a few surprises. Only 2 lakorns and 18 BL/GL productions is definitely a new record lol, it looks like the str8s are going extinct. Thank god. Thumbs up!

❣️ Obviously I have to talk about THK, we are only on episode 2 but it's already owning my existence lol. I had lots of inhibitions about it being weird and cringe but I'm loving it so far. The good ol' jojo chaos is kicking in hard and yes it is silly and unserious but in the best way. It's everything I need right now. My 4 boys are all delivering the best they have to offer and I really hope the energy stays on that level. The show is getting a lot of hate and I understand why it's not for everyone but idgaf. They're just jealous bc their faves could never. 10/10 I'm obsessed.

New series & movie announcements

🎥 Heart Stain - Date TBA (South Korea)

🎥 Exclusive Love - Date TBA (Taiwan)

🎥 Rearrange - Date TBA (Thailand)

🎥 Gel Boys - Date TBA (Thailand)

🎥 Buddy Or Bestdy (reality show by Y Entertainment to cast new BL actors) - Date TBA (Thailand)

🎥 Secret Relationships - Date TBA (South Korea)

🎥 The Killer Next Door - Date TBA (South Korea)

🎥 The Renovation - Date TBA (Thailand)

🎥 Love Like a Bike (produced by AllThis Entertainment) - Date TBA (Thailand)

🎥 I'll Turn Back This Time (Meet You at the Blossom spinoff) - Date TBA (China)

🎥 Boxer - Date TBA (Thailand)

🎥 Friend to Fan - Date TBA (Thailand)

🎥 When It Rains It Pours (manga adaption) - Date TBA (Japan)

🎥 Login - Date TBA (South Korea)

Other news from the BL world

❗️ This year's Thailand Headlines Person of the Year Awards were held on November 7th. The following BL actors/productions won:

Best Series: Only Friends

Best Actor: Khaotung Thanawat

Best Ship: FirstKhaotung

Most beloved on-screen duo: FirstKhaotung

Best OST: "Let's Try" by Khaotung Thanawat (Only Friends)

❗️ TeeTee Wanpichit  and Por Suppakarn were announced as the winners of the second season of Domundi's reality show DMD Friendship. The 2 actors will get to star in the company's next BL project. The title is still unknown.

❗️ A second season for the Thai BL Make a Wish was announced. The show aired in 2023 starring Fluke Natouch and Judo Tantachj. An airdate has not been announced.

❗️ After keeping the casting a secret for several weeks, Domundi has announced Big T. and Park A. as the leads in their upcoming series Me and Who. An airdate has not been announced.

❗️ Taiwanese twin-actors Xia De and Xia En (HIStory: Make Our Days Count) will star in an upcoming BL titled I Promise I Will Come Back, alongside Thai actor Tontae Tinnakorn. The production is a collaboration between Thailand and Taiwan and will air in 2025.

❗️ Japanese actor Keita Machida (Cherry Magic) was announced as the lead in the upcoming BL production 10Dance, alongside Ryoma Takeuchi. The movie is set to premiere in 2025 on Netflix.

❗️ StarHunter held their 2025 lineup event on November 12th. The following BL productions were announced:

Be My Soulmate (starring MosBank)

True Moon

Time Zone

Flirt Milk

❗️ GMMTV held their 2025 lineup event on November 26th. The following BL productions were announced:

Dare You to Death (starring JoongDunk)

Head 2 Head (starring SeaKeen, JavaSurf)

Burnout Syndrome (starring OffGunDew)

Only Friends: Dream On (starring EarthMix, JossGawin, OhmLeng)

That Summer (starring WinnySatang, MondRyu)

My Romance Scammer (starring OhmFluke, JuniorMark)

Melody of Secrets (starring ForceBook)

Love You Teacher (starring PerthSanta)

Cat for Cash (starring FirstKhao)

Boys in Love (starring MickLuke, ChokunAston, PoddPapang)

My Magic Prophecy (starring JimmySea)

A Dog and a Plane (starring TayNew, MarcPoon)

Me and Thee (starring PondPhuwin)

Memoir of Rati (starring GreatInn, AouBoom)

Ticket to Heaven (starring GeminiFourth)

Upcoming series & movies for December:

👉🏻 Addicted Heroin Special Episode - December 1st (Thailand)

👉🏻 Tokimeki Bomb - December 1st (Japan)

👉🏻 Hidden - December 3rd (Thailand)

👉🏻 ThamePo: Heart that Skips a Beat - December 13th (Thailand)

👉🏻 Eternal Butler - December 20th (Taiwan)

👉🏻 Sangmin Dinneaw - December TBA (Thailand)

[halliescomut]

Our Youth Final Thoughts

I don't actually think I've posted much about Our Youth on here, but I finished the series over the weekend and wanted to talk about my overall thoughts.

There's so much I loved about the show. It's the first show in quite a while that I actively felt excited to watch every week. It's a trope that I'm often a fan of the 'bad boy with a heart of gold' and the 'nerd'. I did describe the show to a friend as 'what if Bender and Brian from the Breakfast Club ended up together?' which isn't the most inaccurate tagline, but is certainly not the most contemporary.

There's so much to talk about. I'll start by saying that one of the things that I really appreciated, that spoke to me about the series is how integral queer media is to the story of the characters. Haruki seeing and finding comfort in a queer film, this film being one of the sources of strength he has as he survives the abuse of his father, and eventually opens a door for him to become a filmmaker and tell his own stories is beautiful. It so clearly showcases how queer media is life-changing and life-saving for many queer youth.

There's also this element of telling your own story. We see that directly with Haruki's films, but it's also present in Jin's writing. I think one of the most heartbreaking things we see there is that Jin's story is never 'public', we don't see Jin take a chance there. But there is value in him finding the courage to give Haruki a chance to read his work. Sometimes there's victory in trusting just one or a few people, it doesn't have to be all or nothing.

Another theme or topic brought up in the series, particularly in the finale, is marriage equality. I've been taking in a lot more Japanese BLs this last year than I really have Thai BLs or Korean BLs, Taiwanese, etc., and I've seen this brought up more than previously. It's not always as direct as here, but it's there. Seeing over the last 2-3 years marriage equality brought to the forefront in Thai BLs, and now in a matter of days we'll see the new marriage equality law go into effect there, that it kind of gives me hope. I know the societal pressures are different there, and in a lot of ways it's a don't ask, don't tell situation, but consistently bring up the topic, normalizing queer love, both in queer media and in mainstream media, helps to create a path for that progress.

Another aspect I think is well done, though not perfect, is how the time jumps are handled with-in the story. By my figuring the story spans a bit more than a decade, and when creating, and specifically casting that, it can be hard not to create something where you feel like it's teens playing dress up as their father's by the end, or adults acting unconvincingly as children in the beginning, but there's a good balance here, at least with Jin and Haruki. I think part of the stems from the actors ages, Jin's being only 20, and Haruki's 25. that age difference allows Jin to look HS age, and him being believable as young lends credibility to Haruki. It's also almost a visual shorthand for Haruki to look older while they're in HS because he basically had to 'grow up' quickly, leave his childhood behind because of the abuse of his father. Once they move into the university years, they're basically the age of university students, no suspension of disbelief needed, and then in the final episode with that flash forward, it's not unbelievable to think they'd look somewhat the same. Contentment and happiness will hold off a lot on the aging process.

So to move beyond these kind of larger, more impactful concepts, lets get in close and talk some about Haruki and Jin as characters and a couple. The story kind of sets them up to be opposites, but they're more of a mirror of each other than anything. Both suffer from the neglect of their parents, distanced both physically and emotionally, and it's pretty draining for both of them. I think it sets them up to almost recognize each other in a way. Once they both take those small steps to open up to each other, we see the way they treat each other with so much care. There's moments where both are a bit rough around the edges, especially in the first handful of episodes, where they kind of let their emotions overwhelm them, but in most of their interactions, even starting in that first episode, they're so gentle with each other. I really started to pay attention to body language and how characters interact with each other after my no subs watches of Taikan Yoho, and it was to a level here that it was really noticeable or noteworthy.

That gentleness from both of them, that willingness to reach out, even when they're still so young and unsure, shows so much care. These are two boys (in the beginning) that don't feel loved, much less truly valued. The way the treat each other shows that they value the other. They value their thoughts, their feelings, and even the others' future, to the detriment of their own emotional wellbeing. That's a really hefty gift to give someone, and I think they only really feel comfortable doing so because it's reciprocated, even from the very start.

Taking them separately, we'll start with Jin. Jin is easy, he makes himself easy, he doesn't cause a fuss or an uproar, he just exists quietly. Which when you look deeper, when you take the time to look, to see, you see this incredible loneliness in him. What makes it frustrating as a viewer, is we see him having active discussions with teachers, there's opportunities there for people to recognize what's going on there, but the unfortunate thing is that obedient children are kind of overlooked. And Jin often overlooks himself. He's not necessarily shown to have ambitions on the same level as Haruki, but it reads to me more than he's not really allowed himself to really think about his dreams. He's lived his whole life with this understanding of what the expectations are, and so why would he ever seriously considered something outside of that. It lends the finale it's own bittersweetness, because we see Jin choose Haruki, to decide to take that leap, and while he may not be doing it as boldly, but in his own sort of mild, unassuming way, it's still Jin putting his desires first, and that's a triumph on it's own.

To talk about Haruki, Haruki is heartbreaking. Specifically because the way the narrative is presented, we don't know the full story until we're half-way through and already half-way in love with him. We see him through Jin's eyes in the beginning, beautiful, mysterious, almost unfathomable, and as those first few episode pass we start to see a little bit more. The shift in episode 5, now seeing in the story from Haruki's perspective is a rude awakening in many ways. It wasn't that we didn't have empathy for him before, we certainly did, but seeing so blatantly what he was dealing with hits hard. And it wasn't just about the physical abuse he had been dealing with, which is horrific on it's own, but the way Haruki was so close to giving up. The scene I can't get out of my mind is him saying "Whenever he beat me, I decided I wanted to die." That lack of desire to fight to survive shows how much everything had been wearing on him for so long. When he starts to know Jin, when he starts seeing that a future is possible, we see that fight start building up in him, and it's a relief to see. I found myself after episode 7 feeling so frustrated with him because we we had basically watched him be used and abused by his father OR sacrificing for others. We see him having made the choice to not reveal what he's dealing with to his mother, he decides to take the fall and get suspended from school, with the assumption being that he feels that Jin will be better off without him. He doesn't want Jin to choose to stay instead of studying abroad, because he knows Jin has a bright future and he doesn't want to affect that. But for myself, with the perspective of age, I know that there's hope, that Haruki has a future. So I was very in my feels after all of that.

After our time jump into university seeing Haruki now actively pursuing his dream is a relief, with its own counterpoint of sadness as we are seeing Jin pursue a degree he has no passion for. It's all part of what makes this story so affecting, I think. Life is not all hope and rainbows, but it's also not all loneliness and pain. And there's a realism in choosing a future that's steady instead of taking a chance, the same way there's realism in pursuing a dream that seemed unreachable, knowing that there is a safety-net for you if things don't work out.

To talk a bit about what I didn't like- their parents. All of them sucked. Yes, arguably Haruki's dad was by far the worst, being a raging alcoholic who was physically abusive to his son for likely at least a couple years if not more. But even Haruki's mother doesn't get much sympathy from me, though we do see that Haruki holds no grudge for her (because of his fucking self-sacrificing bullshit). Jin's parents, I almost have no words for. There's an acute lack of interest from both, but we'll talk about dad first since I have less to say about him. It surprises me that Jin's dad is as emotionally distant as he is. We see that Jin has a great deal of respect for his dad, he appreciates and has an interest in his work, but his dad never thinks to build on that. I just find it odd. As far as Jin's mother, she's physically a bit more present, though I feel if you asked her flat out if she loved her son she might have to stop and think about it. He's basically a to-do list in her calendar, something that needs to be checked on and checked off, and I wonder how bad it was before the start of the shows timeline. It's not good that a teenaged Jin is being left for weeks at a time on his own, but when did they start doing that? It's a common trope for young Japanese children to be self-sufficient, and it's so open ended that my mind can't help but picture 8, 9, 10 year old Jin being left for days. But he's good, and obedient, and that's just life, so he goes on, and how heartbreaking is that?!? And I'll be honest, I was genuinely surprised to see her texting Jin in the final episode when we've flashed forward. When it feels like neither of them actively work to keep that bond intact, how was it still there? I suppose the answer is duty.

The emotional and physical trauma both Haruki and Jin deal with, I also didn't love--because it made me an absolute emotional wreck. I have some mixed feelings over how some things were handled, or specifically how most things were not at all handled. The resolution for a lot of the issues that we see is no resolution. Yes, we see that the emotional connection forged between Haruki and Jin is a beacon for both, enabling them to weather their individual storms, once that concept is established, it kind of drops off to nowhere. It's not even that it's built upon to the point where they both become self-sufficient or confident in themselves, it just is there, then in ep 7 (I think) they just go their separate ways and we're never shown that they're still affecting each others lives. We're shown that they're still in love with each other, that the other is still in their thoughts, but not how their experiences helped to shape them directly. It's worse with Haruki's father's death. It's an INSANELY traumatizing event, and it's almost treated like "well now he can't beat him any more and he can go live with his mom and everything is fine", and like...WHAT? Setting aside for a short moment the fact that being the one present at the loss of a parent even an abusive one, is gonna be traumatic, there's so much emotional distress and grief that comes from losing an abusive parent, especially as a child. Because it's not just grief of the person, it's grief of the unknown. Could there have been a future where his dad got sober and they had a happy life? A time where his dad became what he had been before? A revisit of that loving father? So you're also working through that loss also, and that's really not even a blip of a thought it feels like.

My final thought is something I didn't like, because it made me sad, but also still makes sense within the narrative, and that's the fact that we never see Jin or Haruki come out. I know we get tired of coming out stories, and I didn't need a dedicated scene or episode showing either coming out, but in the final episode where we see the friend group come back together we're shown in no uncertain terms that they are not out to them, & even more that their friends don't know they're dating each other. And I think that sucks. I think it's reasonable and understandable that either might not be out to their parents (though fr your dad makes gay movies Jin--so why not?) or to coworkers and acquaintances, but to have friends you've seen and known for more than a decade and you're still afraid? That's so sad.

Overall, the word I might use to describe this love story is unassuming. It's not necessarily bold, but steady, which is something both characters need. They went through their teen years with different versions of upheaval and loneliness, and in the end they have each other, they have work that supports them, and they feel like they have a future, and that's something I think their teenage selves could have never even imagined.

Thanks for reading.

*Also, I pulled some pics/stills whatever from @colourme-feral who has an excellent series offering more context to the subtitle translations. Absolutely amazing, and I definitely recommend checking them out if you haven't.

Link: https://www.tumblr.com/colourme-feral/search/miseinen%20translation/original

[forcebook]

Hello there, do you mind sharing your favorite bls of 2024? Thanks!

hi! honestly i suck at keeping track of shows and ranking them asdfghjkl i want to keep better track next year tho and maybe even make some celebratory gifsets but we shall see!

and since you asked for it, i decided to check mdl and do a deep dive on which shows have aged well in my mind and score lmao

my top rated dramas of 2024 are:

love for love’s sake

my only 5 stars drama of the year. doesn’t surprise me at all. this show took me completely my storm at the beginning of the year. it has such a compelling story and it’s so efficient on so many levels. but most importantly, it sticks the landing. it gives closure to a story that wasn’t even finished. and it does so well. the definition of lightning in a bottle!

love in the big city

this show made me feel emotions unknown to humanity so i get my rating asdfghjkl felt really personal to me. it is also incredibly efficient and very necessary!

knock knock boys!

i said it halfway through its run and i’ll say it again: one of the best bls of 2024. no wonder i rated it this high asdfghjkl within its premise it promised very little and delivered soooo much with some incredible takes. while i love when bls do new things, to me a story told well is fantastic regardless of how cliché it might be to some. and knock knock boys manages to feel very familiar but also very refreshing with the way it handled some topics. super funny and it stuck the landing to me. in a completely different way from love for love’s sake but very satisfying!

jack & joker: u steal my heart!

this is the thai bl of the year to me. for all the conversations it started, interesting characters, refreshing plot and also for existing purely on the love and dedication of its creators. while it is not perfect, i do hope that when we look back on 2024, we see it as the year of jack and joker

century of love

i’ve loved daouoffroad since love in translation. i was a bit skeptical of century of love at first but i ended up loving it a lot. i’m also not surprised at all this made my top 5 asdfghjkl

now i would like to add a few shows that haven’t finished airing yet but had most of their run in 2024 and i’m pretty sure they’re going to be in top rated dramas

miseinen (our youth)

it is the japanese bl of the year to me. hands down. i could rant but at the same time i have no words asdfghjkl this show goes beyond efficiency or even sticking the landing (which i hope they do), but it’s the whole vibe. because while incredibly sad, you can see how much love and care exists in it. the characters are so alive and so complex and beautiful and godddd i love them. 10/10 no notes

see your love

came out of nowhere promising very little and delivered one of the best bls of 2024 imo. i don’t even remember when was the last time i felt compelled to gif a taiwanese bl but this show is sooo inspiring and fun and important. i just love it

caged again

this show promised nothing except wacky plot and delivered such a hilarious and compelling and heartfelt story. i love when i get these little surprises. shall live on in my heart

honorable mentions:

let's eat together, aki and haru 2: more please!

my only other 5 stars of the year. but it’s a movie so i didn’t include it up there. still. it’s a nearly flawless execution of a beautiful genre that i love: queer stories revolving around food and domesticity. it delivered exactly what it promised efficiently and i loooooove it so much!!!!!

sugar dog life

also came out of nowhere promising nothing and delivered a really solid little story, also revolving around food and domesticity. can you tell i’m biased lmao

the rebound

BALL IS LIFE!!!!!! we need more bls about sports. asap. we don’t have enough!!!! and this show was a surprise to me. i ended up super invested for the most part and i do think it stands out in the tiny little corner of bl sports therefore it deserves an honorable mention

blue canvas of youthful days

chinese bls always have a special place in my heart for fighting so hard to exist. this one is no exception. it got taken down when it first started airing and i’m glad they managed to release all of it eventually. it’s far from being perfect but i was still thoroughly invested in it. i love the main couple with my entire heart. and i’m soooooo grateful they got their happy ending!!

monster next door

as a deeply introverted person, this is the representation i needed asdfghjkl it felt refreshing and a conversation worth having about respecting introverts and other people’s ways of living. plus diew is autistic to me (source: i’m autistic) and it was an overall good show!!! bigpark my beloveds!!

and that’s it! thank you for asking 💕

[theside-b]

What more can I say about this show? I’d previously compared the rhythm of First Note of Love with the likes of Unknown and The On1y One, but the more appropriate and direct comparison is with the underrated About Youth. From the music-driven plot, soft approach and wholly interesting characters, both shows have in common this trait of not dwelling into complex or difficult subjects, often choosing the lighter path guided by the romance.

The main difference between them comes in the cast. From all shows of the season, First Note of Love was the biggest target on my radar, the reason: Charles and Michael. Absolute fan-favorite and scene stealer from HIStory: Close to You, and the adorable prodigal son in My Tooth Your Love teaming up with now the focus square on them and joined by two other seasoned actors in Tim Liu and Jame Kasama. Taiwanese actors don’t sit in the same table with their neighbors, and while Charles and Michael are not bringing a bed to their fan meetings or sparking rumors of real-life dating, they really embraced the image of an adorable lovingly couple, going on cute dates and being cheesy (and overly romantic) with each other off-screen, meanwhile Tim and Jame have this very unique international connection with the two even scoring a side episode dedicated to them, and unlike other projects that feature international pairings this show explored and addressed head-on the linguistic barriers.

On the show, one of the biggest pitfalls was deftly avoided: Neil and Sea are on equal footing. Which was quite impressive of them to pull off, because not only they had the age gap between them but we start the series with Xiao Hai being Neil’s biggest fan, so from the get-go they were on uneven ground, but as the show progressed, we had two things happening at once: Xiao Hai realizing that Neil is much more than what and who he idolized and Neil himself becoming a fan (and falling head over heels for Sea). When we reach the midpoint is pretty clear that Xiao Hai has Neil’s heart, and not only that but Neil is also a fan of him, from Sea’s own music to his personality, they adore each other completely, flaws and all. And is actually a nice change of pace seeing a couple who is free to just fall in love without any unnecessary drama happening.

There isn’t a “bride”, or an ex-looking for a second chance, battle of classes, gangsters trying to ruin their lives, an overly dramatic break-up, circumstances that pull them apart, nothing like that at all happens here. Their biggest obstacle is actually themselves, they are so into each other that it becomes a problem, until it isn’t and the romance takes off beautifully. It’s like seeing one of the healthiest relationships unfold right in front of your eyes, a novelty really.

Next to them there is Reese and Orca in one of the most interesting dynamics seen in recent BL dramas. There is history here, but we are not allowed to witness, something did happen, something important and special to both of them. Orca left; Reese let him go. And then he is back, with no intention of leaving again empty-handed, if his going back to Thailand he is going to make sure he has Reese’s heart with him.

Orca joins a very fun trend of the class of’24: the “I have feelings and I going to make them your problem too!” archetype. Invading Reese’s house (which is debatable since he knew the door code), cooking him delicious meals, serenating his paramour, making Reese a hostage at his own home by taking long and luxurious showers and prowling the apartment naked, Orca didn’t let that man breathe for one second. It didn’t hurt them that their first interaction was Orca literally throwing himself at Reese and we along with him finding out that the Taiwanese learned thai just so they could talk — they confessing their love in each other’s mother language was such a sweet touch.

Much like the main couple there was plenty of openings for some juicy drama here (their first kiss happens at a funeral for crying out loud) but the show again choses the lighter route, from Orca hijinks, to Reese’s obvious crush and the cute MosBank cameos (we need a spin-off showing what kind of beef they have with Orca), the only thing stopping them is themselves, Reese actually says that.

That all might seem silly or uneventful, but is refreshing seeing grown-ups acting like grow-ups. Is not a show with wild storylines or bombastic turning points and sudden revelations. They are telling the stories of two couples that simply like each other and want to be together. It’s about them working around their own issues to be good for one another. It’s the reason why, unlike other Taiwanese shows, I firmly believe they are perfect for a stress-free binge watch.

The one major downside is the run-time, from episode one to the finale, it always feels like something good was left off the table due time constraint. The lack of Reese and Orca in the final episode felt criminal (they have a special episode focused on them in Thailand by the way, but is mostly a cute little thing starring Tim and Jame). The episodes clock around the 22/24-minute mark, and that leads me to believe that First Note of Love might have been conceived as a movie that got turned into a series later on, it’s probably the one series that I can clearly see how they would adapt into a feature film with ease.

As I said, there are subtle hints of very dark subjects lurking within the characters. Xiao Hai for example, we see that he grew up all alone, abandoned really, and there is a tense moment his mother reaches out to him, and he avoids her wanting nothing to with her or his family, later he states to Neil that thanks to his love he doesn’t feel alone anymore — the implications are there, but you have to be able to catch them and read as you see fit, the show never makes them all that clear, they could’ve explored more but they chose not to, maybe if they had more time they could have.

I also need to point it out: it’s the best (no question or room for debate) musical BL. All the songs were very good, and you can see they went all out to get them right, the lyrics always reflecting what we were dealing with in the episodes. Charles already had two tracks from HIStory under his belt, and Michael and Jame got training from professional musicians and instructors in how to perform in front of the cameras. This dedication led to some amazing moments and the most believable on-screen musicians in the genre. It also never felt like a full-on musical, but as if we were indeed watching professional stage performances. (Warner Music Taiwan was responsible for the soundtrack and having actual artists like Taiyo [who plays Matt] and Ben Wu providing them songs was a great call).

Another strong asset in the show was the location. The first major TW-BL drama not situated in Taipei, the port city of Kaohsiung served as this near-futuristic backdrop with stylish architecture and romantic scenery — the city is actually Taiwan’s new capital of music with labels HQs and musical festivals, that’s why the show takes place there, and it was refreshing seeing them in a location not all-that explored.

I cannot advocate for this show enough, so is a must-see recommendation from me.

[thisonelikesaliens]

this is why i love taiwanese BL especially when their OST really hits. i caught some snippets of the new OST they played at the beginning of episode 7 when Qian is just going through the motions of life without Yuan:

我沒有很想你 只是一早醒來第一個想到你 I don't miss you that much, I just think of you as soon as I wake up 我沒有很想你 只是偶爾會翻閱你的短訊 I don't miss you that much, I just read through your messages sometimes 我沒有很想你 只是把自己關在角落裡 I don't miss you that much, I just shut myself in the corner 逃避 逃避 逃避 隨便你 Avoid, evade, escape, just do what you want

我沒有很想你 只是在夜裡睡不著翻來覆去 I don't miss you that much, I just can't fall asleep some nights 我沒有很想你 只是偶爾會打聽你的消息 I don't miss you that much, I just try to find news about you sometimes 我沒有很想你 只是偶爾會播放你愛看的電影 I don't miss you that much, I just play the movie you like sometimes 我真的沒有想你 I really don't miss you

我沒有很想你 我沒有很想你 I don't miss you that much, I really don't miss you that much 我只是愛你勝過愛自己 I just love you more than I love myself 我沒有很想你 I don't miss you that much 只是偶爾想抱緊你 I just want to hold you tight sometimes 我真的沒有想你 I really don't miss you

[waitmyturtles]

Unknown: The Final Episodes (Episodes 10, 11, and 12)

(*CAVEAT!!!!* I wrote this screed before the producers of Unknown cut a different version of episode 11. I have only watched the first version, the version that the Taiwanese BL gods had originally intended us to watch, hmph. My commentary below only reflects my thoughts on this first version. I'm gonna allow myself to be old and crabby and say, "BAH! We didn't revise episodes back in *mah* day!" to excuse myself from watching it and I'm an old mom, I have no fuckin' time to watch a revise, so so sorry fam lmaooo ok byeeeee)

So -- I'll repeat what I think a lot of us have thought about the final arcs of Unknown, and where I could have used more of the delicate, thoughtful exploration about family roles and boundaries that the first nine episodes of this show displayed. These are the elements that drew me to the show, as well as Yuan's general spiciness and empathic intelligence towards Qian.

Anyone who reads around here knows that themes that I'm driven by include Asian intergenerational trauma and Asian family systems and dynamics. This show (here, here, and my tag) -- oh lordo, this show tackled expected, internalized, and externalized roles and responsibilities within families head-the-fuck-on, at least for the first nine episodes.

Let me state the obvious first: this show veered off the highway a bit too early to demonstrate that, WOW, Qian really is the

HORNIEST MAN ALIVE, WOW, EVER --

(dang dude, you really needed to get down EARLIER and MORE OFTEN, because that IN-OFFICE AFTERGLOW, MY MAN, like, listen, I'm down for the post-nut vibes! all support and celebration and respect, but also, we need to delegate these tasks, we're on the clock, you are a co-owner of this company, back to work! chop-chop)

and MAN, could I have used a quick wave of a flag or hand that his deficit for love, care, and tenderness would hit at THAT SPECIFIC angle (HEH HEH) so very quickly and VERY INTENSELY at the start of episode 11. That took me out. I had to just scream at @lurkingshan. I watched that episode IN PUBLIC, PEOPLE!

We were missing some steps there. It was a FABULOUS actual love scene. But I could have used more of

1) Yuan contemplating the reality of what was going to go down BEFORE that scene began, and

2) To see Qian enter that moment as well. Instead, we hit the sheets, and had to process that very intense scene WITH flashbacks, which, whew, was a whole thing, all while I was just kinda literally screaming.

Those flashbacks were supposed to tell me that Qian had come to terms with Yuan's lifelong longing, but the down-dirty confirmed that for me before I was ready to get to the same mindset that Qian had started that scene with. The very important timing and pacing of the emotional exploration and reveals that we had been presented with in the previous episodes was jettisoned for the booty.

So, yeah. That was out of order.

What I also missed in these episodes was, as I stated earlier, the previous and very intentional exploration of family roles and boundaries that this show was playing with prior to the last three episodes.

With this emotional line concluding in episode 10, Qian showed us consistently that his struggle with negotiating his older-brother-and-fatherly responsibilities was his biggest burden, alongside the lifelong processing of the abuse he had received at the hands of his mother, and his further processing of her death.

Qian and Yuan get together in episode 11, literally go out on a date, and Qian woos Yuan.

Qian's continued resistance to being open about his health to Yuan is extremely reminiscent of a parent (I think of Asian parents, but I think this is common to global parenthood) hiding a health status from a child. This part of the story was still an important one. Qian was STILL holding onto his understanding of his responsibilities to Yuan and Lili as a parent/older sibling figure. If he didn't get out of that surgery in perfect condition, he worried about their futures -- regardless of the facts that Yuan was self-sufficient, and Lili was both self-sufficient and supported by a loving partner. Because that's how so many parents are: no matter the stability of their children, parents will see children as their children.

What I liked about this storyline, and what I could have used a bit more of (ideally in an extra episode) WAS HOW YUAN'S FAMILY ROLE CHANGES AUTOMATICALLY BY BECOMING QIAN'S PARTNER.

Lili calls Yuan a "sister-in-law," but he also becomes a

brother-in-law, AND a stepdad, AND THEN ALSO BECOMES A VERY NOT TECHNICAL GRANDPA, ALONG WITH GRANDPA/UNCLE/OLDER BROTHER QIAN

AND, AND!

We see Yuan THEN CARING FOR QIAN as the younger brother he's always been, AND

AS QIAN'S PARTNER

which they're calling wife or sister-in-law in the show, which, bleh to gendered terms, but

THEY WERE GOING THERE WITH YUAN

but we didn't get enough of it.

THAT IS A HUGE CHANGE FOR YUAN.

HE IS EQUAL NOW!

We just didn't get enough exploration there. Because the show was centering Qian's narrative (which I don't blame the show for at all), and mans was in his post-boop vibe the whole time, that we didn't sit enough with the changing of these roles FOR THESE TWO MEN, and while Lili hinted at it, I would have liked just a few more minutes at the macro-high level to explore what this meant for this entire, wonderful family unit. This is just huge Asian family dynamics stuff regarding who has power, and how that impacts how Qian interacts with Yuan, how Qian has to internally process the growth of his "child," as it were, to be LITERALLY EQUAL to him as his partner; and also for Lili to contemplate as she regards Yuan now as someone partnered with her caretaker. Yuan now would kind of step into that role, as well. THAT'S HUGE for dynamics changing and rebuilding.

Let's also remember that San Peng transcends these boundaries, too, but it's a bit easier for him, because he hasn't lived in that house. But he's the family's benefactor, in a way, which both Yuan and Lili acknowledge. And his turning into a partner into the family is also a significant boundary-crossing.

Finally, Qian's concern for Lili. Yes, he was concerned for her career. He didn't want Lili to turn out like his mom.

I would have liked to have proof in that concern, literally. I say this as a mom.

Qian was missing something big. Lili's baby was going to be born into a nice big family unit that Qian was the creator and anchor of.

At least they had Qian and Yuan sitting on baby toys to end the series. Lili, truly, had nothing to worry about. The gay uncle-grandpas were going to be there to help raise the baby, because as an Asian viewer, I am going to assume the extended family's participation

(NOT ASSISTANCE! ACTIVE PARTICIPATION!)

in the raising of that child.

I'm not sure why Qian missed that, except for the very real reason of familial PTSD and intergenerational trauma from his mother. But San Peng was right there as Lili's partner and as the actual dad. And Qian was valid to have a concern. But that could have been a moment where Yuan, also, as a new equal "elder" of this newly readjusted family, could have reassured everyone that this baby was going to be born in a wonderful, close-knit, loving extended family.

These readjusted roles were not fully named and explored. If I were Lili, I know I'd be having that baby in the good hands of all of the men around me that would help me raise the kiddo in a happy and supportive environment.

One more point about the baby. We need more babies in BLs. We need to show men becoming fathers, people becoming parents. This is a right that all people have. We need more of it to emphasize that all people are deserving of the families that they want to create -- and truly, it was so BEAUTIFULLY SYMBOLIC that Qian would be such a good caretaker as to be blessed with further generations, because he literally cared so well for Yuan and Lili that they could bless him back with growing the family he tended to. We just didn't get enough sitting with that.

Finally! TF was up with that office vibe in the end. The tops, the bottoms, the public kissing. That we got that instead of the role explorations -- k, but the tone of all that was a little off, if it was meant to be comedic. And yes, I definitely took away that I was meant to ship Dr. Lin and Le Ge. I have NO IDEA why they were talking otherwise. Doc and Don are meant to, ya know, YA KNOW? Right? Ummm, lol.

All of this together is enough to put a touch of a damper on my memories of this show. I didn't end with a high.

But I ABSOLUTELY LOVED what this show accomplished through the first 10 episodes. All these complicated, delicious boundaries and roles and responsibilities being explored! It's a joy, as an Asian, to watch this being explored in a queer Asian show.

We ended on some tropey bumps, but I'm going to remember this show overall with fondness, and I'm ultimately very happy that this was my first Taiwanese BL. I can't wait to catch up in this space more in due time.

[lurkingshan]

Unknown Episode 12

This the end beautiful friends. And I wouldn't say the show is going out with a whimper, exactly, but it's certainly not with a bang. This will remain one of my all time favorite Taiwanese dramas, but I will definitely be remembering it as being so so excellent for 10 exquisite episodes that built to such a beautiful peak and then inexplicably blew it on the dismount.

We already talked about episode 11 and the sex scene blunder, as well as some of the other missed beats there. Episode 12 moved on from the immediate aftermath of Yuan and Qian getting together to give us a sense of what their lives will look like now that they are together. One thing I definitely appreciated is that they aren't hiding this from anyone--they are taking the no shame approach to the change in their relationship, and I love that. I don't know that I entirely bought how brazen they were being, though. Making out in the open office space where Qian's employees could see seemed a bit much even if they weren't brothers, and given that the show didn't portray any awkwardness or any of Qian's expected discomfort with this big shift in their relationship, it came across a little silly and dismissive of how serious a change this should be for them. I would have really enjoyed Yuan threatening Qian with kisses if it had been a more private moment. And I deeply hated the top/bottom discussion amongst the fujoshi coworkers, that was just in poor taste and out of step with the tone of the show (can we just ban bls from doing scenes like this already?).

This final episode also failed to meaningfully resolve Qian's health issue in favor of introducing a new plot: Lili's accidental pregnancy. I have mixed feelings about this development. On the one hand, it helps to reinforce a theme of this family's resilience and ensures they will have a family legacy, and it led to hands down my favorite scene in the episode, which was the family discussion where they were moving between the bedrooms as Qian learned of the pregnancy, promised not to attack San Pang, and then immediately attacked San Pang when he stopped hiding. That was comedy gold and the cast was so excellent in every beat of it. On the other hand, I don't love this plot direction for Lili and I don't think the show really did anything to reckon with what a monumental wrench it will throw into her life plans (note that this is another departure from the book, where Lili ends the story a successful jet setting model who is still single and living her ideal life traveling for work). Lili wants a career in fashion modeling and entertainment; how exactly does having a child at age 23 fit with those goals? The show didn't even bother to consider her future in the way this story was framed. I would have preferred a time skip to do this plot at a more appropriate time for her; as it was this just felt a little careless.

In the end I am glad we got to see the family accept each other's relationships and Qian and Yuan settling into living alone together in the home they love, but I do wish the final two episodes had lived up to the promise of the rest. It felt like the first 10 episodes built so beautifully to a monumental relationship change, and then the show just kinda shrugged their way through the actual change in favor of random new plots and a list of ill-fitting Taiwanese bl tropes. After everything they went through, all tension evaporated instantly, no one was uncomfortable with the relationship becoming romantic, and there was no real nuance in the family discussion about it. They simply didn’t finish the story they started and given they had such strong material to work with from the novel, I will never understand why.

That said, even with a lackluster ending I will always be grateful that we got this gem of a show. Despite its flaws, this story contains some of my all-time favorite characters and relationships. Hats off to the cast and crew for delivering one of my favorite dramas of the year. And I want to also thank the folks on here who made discussion of this show every week so fun. We are a tiny little fandom but the love and devotion to this show was so lovely, and I am extra grateful to those who stuck to the weekly pact for the final episodes so we could keep posting and talking about this story for a couple more weeks. I hope we find another show to love together very soon!

[the-conversation-pod]

Going High-Low with Taiwan

And we're back! It’s been awhile since we checked in on Taiwan, and the latest offerings have really run the gamut in terms of quality. Ben, NiNi, and Shan sat down to discuss the state of Taiwanese BL via two recent shows, Anti Reset and Unknown.

Timestamps

The timestamps will now correspond with chapters on Spotify for easier navigation.

00:00:00 - Welcome 00:01:15 - Intro 00:02:11 - Anti Reset and VBL 00:13:13 - Unknown the Series 00:20:16 Unknown: The Pseudo Incest Trope 00:27:53 Unknown: San Pang, Li Li, and Family in the Narrative 00:35:48 Unknown: The Ending Stumble 00:43:32 Unknown: Adapting the Da Ge Novel 00:46:15 Unknown: Final Thoughts and Ratings 00:51:53 - Whither Taiwanese BL?

The Conversation Transcripts!

Thanks to the continued efforts of @ginnymoonbeam as transcriber, and @lurkingshan as an editor and proofreader, we are able to bring you transcripts of the episodes.

We will endeavor to make the transcripts available when the episodes launch, and it is our goal to make them available for past episodes (Coming soon thanks to @wen-kexing-apologist). When transcripts are available, we will attach them to the episode post (like this one) and put the transcript behind a Read More cut to cut down on scrolling.

Please send our volunteers your thanks!

00:00:00 - Welcome

NiNi

Welcome to The Conversation About BL, aka The Brown Liquor Podcast.

Ben

And there it is. I’m Ben.

NiNi

I’m NiNi.

Ben

And we’re you’re drunk Caribbean uncle and auntie here sitting on the porch in the rocking chairs.

NiNi

Four times a year we pop in to talk about what’s going on in the BL world.

Ben

We shoot the shit about stories and all the drama going into them. I review from a queer media lens.

NiNi

And I review from a romance and drama lens.

Ben

So if you like cracked-out takes and really intense emotional analysis…

NiNi

If you like talking about artistry, industry, and the discourse…

Ben

And if you generally just love simping…

NiNi

There is a lot of simping on this podcast…

Ben

We are the show for you!

00:01:15 - Intro

Ben 

And we're back! This week we will be discussing the state of Taiwanese BL by highlighting two projects that recently finished for us. 

NiNi 

Shan is here with us. Say hi, Shan. 

Shan 

Hello people! 

NiNi 

Shan has to be here because y'all know I don't watch that much Taiwanese BL. [laughs]

Shan 

And I watch it all. 

Ben 

We're going to be talking about the sci-fi BL Anti Reset and we're going to be talking about the Priest adaptation Unknown the series, based on Priest’s novel Da Ge. 

NiNi 

I am unfamiliar with Anti Reset. I did not watch it. 

Ben 

NiNi: it's a Taiwanese BL. I don't like it! [Shan laughs] I didn't watch it. 

NiNi 

I did watch Unknown and I have thoughts about that. 

00:02:11 - Anti Reset and VBL

NiNi 

Maybe Shan, you could dig in here before we let Ben get into the recap on Anti Reset. 

Shan 

Anti Reset is part of a recent series of Taiwanese BLs that came from a company called VBL. Stay By My Side, You Are Mine, VIP Only, and then Anti Reset. This was a connected series, all these stories happened in the same universe. The characters did cameos in each other's shows and they all aired in the same time slot one right after the other, over the last several months. 

I was not particularly impressed with the quality of these shows and I thought that as the series went on, each show got a little bit worse. [laughs] By the time I was in VIP Only I had really lost interest in what these shows were doing. The stories were weak, the production values were low, they weren't really hitting the usual Taiwanese high watermarks for great casting, good couple chemistry, solid intimacy scenes… The things you can normally reliably count on Taiwan for, were not really showing up in these shows. 

So I was, had kind of already lost my faith in this series when Anti Reset started. I think I got two episodes into it and I just decided to just stop watching. It was givin’ me a weird vibe. I was like, “You know what? I don't know what this show is doing and I don't think I wanna find out.” 

That's where I think I should hand it off to Ben to talk more about what the show actually ended up doing.

Ben 

Oh, man. Trying to describe the premise of this show inherently gives it more credit than it deserves. [Shan and Ben laugh] The premise of the show is that Chu Yi Ping is some sort of humanities professor at a local college. His arm gets injured from pulling his shoulder and his uncle, who runs a experimental tech company, decides that to give him some assistance while he's recovering, they're going to send an experimental house assistant android to his house, which appears in the shape of a really hot guy named Ever 9. 

The show wants to go on to be this exploration about how misanthropy presents in people. How do you find humanity in artificial intelligences that are designed to befriend us? It wants to do this exploration of personhood—I don't think it does—and ends up fundamentally becoming a mail-order bride show that doesn't realize it is one. This show thinks it's doing deep analysis of AI personhood and romance, but it's not. It's just presenting things. It is kind of a mess and I ended up really not liking it. 

NiNi 

I'm a big sci-fi girl. I like these kinds of explorations of the human condition. It's what all the best sci-fi is about. So, basically what you're telling me is don't watch the show. [laughs]

Shan 

Ben, I feel like when I was observing discourse about this show, it did seem like it was working for some people, and I'm curious if you have thoughts about what parts of the show maybe did work better than others. 

Ben 

I think that if you found the leads attractive and you enjoyed the chemistry that the leads were going for—ignoring literally any of the context about what was going on around their interactions—you could enjoy that. But I don't think the show does a great job of addressing its own context. 

You've got this android living in your house who is doing your house chores and making your food for you, and otherwise taking care of you. So you basically have purchased a housewife. But then he decides he's in love with the housewife and wants to pursue the concept that the android has a personality and is capable of reciprocating his feelings and such. But they don't do a good job creating this crossover point where Ever 9 cares about Chu Yi Ping because of who Ever 9 is and not because of what Ever 9 was programmed to be. 

The issue, too, with Chu Yi Ping is he's got this fundamental misanthropy that isn't really addressed or challenged. What is it about Ever 9 that allows him to not hate him the way he hates other people? The fact that Ever 9 is programmed to put up with all of his shit all the time? That's kinda weird, particularly because they went for a multi-year separation at the end, and I'm like, he didn't grow from this. He's just a sad little weirdo the whole time. 

Shan 

They did a multi-year separation between… a man and a robot? 

Ben 

They did. 

NiNi 

I was about to say— [all laugh]

Shan

I mean! I’m like, what? But, like—, Did—, How—, But—, I—

NiNi

Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. I have another related question. 

Ben 

Please, go on. [Ben and Shan laugh]

NiNi 

This is not a story about an AI achieving self-awareness or sentience or crossing the human-digital divide in some way. 

Ben 

It wants to be that. It really wants to be a story about Ever 9 exceeding his programming. They very much think there's, like, a Pinocchio thing going on with him. 

Shan 

He's still a robot. 

NiNi 

Even Pinocchio turned into a real boy at the end. 

Shan

Right, this is what I don't understand. 

NiNi 

So what is the point, then? If nothing actually changes about Ever 9. 

Ben 

This is one of the fundamental questions I've been asking about BL lately. [all laugh] And here we are again. 

Shan 

What is the point? [laughs]

NiNi 

This is the thing that people don't get about sci-fi a lot. Sci-fi is more philosophy than science. It's a lot more about humanity and the things that humanity does to each other and how humanity evolves than it is about the cool things that the science can do. And whenever I see sci-fi that does not understand that, you can tell. 

Shan 

I think—and I wonder how you feel about this, Ben—one of the tension points here may be trying to take a narrative like this and turn it into a straightforward romance between a person and an object. When I've seen stories with this conceit done well, the romance is maybe not the primary point, and it's more about, like NiNi is saying, the philosophical questions underpinning it. I think about something like Lars and the Real Girl, which is more about the nature of loneliness and the nature of grief and how a community can come together to support somebody in finding a way to be happy. But it's not about the actual romance between the person and the thing. It feels like maybe what's difficult here is they want to examine those things, but at the same time they just want this to be a standard BL where they're just executing romance tropes. Those things don't go together that well. 

Ben 

I agree. I feel like Chu Yi Ping’s misanthropy and disconnectedness from other people should have been the crux of the storytelling, and they were more focused on making the android say hyung and oppa instead. 

NiNi 

For me, if you're gonna do a robot story like this, maybe you actually put somebody else into the story who the main character then falls in love with. The main character is able to interact with the robot to actually, themselves, become a real boy. But somebody in the story has to become a real boy! [laughs] That's the whole—you know what I mean?

Shan 

There's a kdrama that I really love called I'm Not a Robot. And that is pretty much how they handled that. There's a robot, there's a real girl. And in the end, the romance is with the real girl, not the robot. [laughs] 

It just feels like they tried to do that sort of story, but also somehow make the robot the main person without having them actually achieve personhood, and that just doesn't really work. 

NiNi 

It's either that or take it dystopian. Take it in the opposite direction. But then I guess that's not a BL. 

Shan 

Right. So you can also take it in the real fucked up direction, but yeah, you have to commit and it sounds like they just tried to do it all in some kind of weird blend that didn't come together. 

NiNi 

So, I'm guessing this one's a chop, Ben. 

Ben 

Oh, it's 100% a chop. I think I ended up giving it a 5? This is a show that I do not recommend at all. If you just want to see pretty decently attractive Taiwanese actors kind of moon at each other a little bit and make out a little bit, by all means! Go in and have a great time. But that's what you're getting out of it, at most. It's not good sci-fi, and I don't like it. At all. 

Shan 

I'm feeling happy with my choices. I'm gonna not return and finish this one. I think I'm gonna let it lie. It sounds like it was the right choice to not finish it for me. 

Ben 

What did we get out of the VBL project? My only positive takeaway from it is, I'm really glad that they got some money together to continue making small budget Taiwanese BL. I don't want small budget Taiwanese BL to give up, but also, these were not the best offerings that we've gotten out of that. 

Shan 

They need some better scripts. 

Ben 

We gotta do better. I really did not want to be super harsh about VBL and a bunch of their projects but, they're kind of really frustrating in a lot of ways. Stay By My Side ends abruptly. You Are Mine does not do the boss-employee romance any real justice. VIP Only ended up being kinda boring and wasn't really satisfying in its conclusion. And this one just really did not understand the expectations of sci-fi storytelling.

When we looked at the descriptions of all these shows ahead of time, we were like, there's a lot of ways that they could fuck this up royally, but these would actually be pretty good, or at least interesting and compelling in some ways. But they weren't. There's some sort epilogue episode or some shit they're gonna be releasing?

Shan 

A little special to try to sell merch, I think. 

NiNi 

I mean, you gotta do what you gotta do. 

Shan

Yeaaaaah. 

Ben 

Not impressed, and we are moving on. 

NiNi 

You're not even gonna rate it? 

Ben 

Oh, I gave it a 5. 

NiNi 

5 for Anti Reset from The Conversation. 

Ben 

And the 5 is, the leads were actually pretty solid with each other. 

NiNi 

Wow, that is damning with the faintest of praise. 

[all laugh]

Ben 

It's not good, y’all. 

00:13:13 - Unknown the Series

NiNi

Let's leave that behind and move on to something that all of us actually watched and I think liked a little bit more. Moving on to Unknown the series. 

Ben, give us the rundown, what is Unknown the series about?

Ben

Unknown is a found family narrative that has to deal with the way these relationships change as people grow up. This brother and sister end up deciding to adopt a homeless kid who's in their neighborhood. Wei Qian is like a high schooler trying to take care of his little sister ‘cause their parents are dead, and they decide to also take care of this kid, Xiao Yuan. Xiao Yuan is appreciative of this and is glad to become a brother to this family. But as he grows and matures, he ends up developing deep affection for Wei Qian, and we spend the bulk of the story dealing with Xiao Yuan struggling with his feelings for Wei Qian, and how this impacts the community around them. 

Beyond the three siblings, we have their neighbor San Pang, whose family has opted to never raise the rent on the Wei siblings to make sure that they have a place to stay. Wei Qian spends much of his adolescence when he's not in school working for the local gang: complications ensue as a result of this. 

Shan, further thoughts?

Shan

Really, at its heart, this is a relationship change narrative. So, it's all about how this family decide to take each other as family and then as they grow up, some of the relationships start to shift and change, not only between Wei Qian and Wei Yuan, but also between Wei Li Li and San Pang. Wei Qian really takes his responsibilities as the older brother—but also the default patriarch of this family—very seriously. He is a caretaker, he is the person providing financially for the family. San Pang is his best friend, someone who's known him his whole life, who completely understands his devotion to his siblings and also loves them, as well, as an older brother figure. 

There are some other characters in the mix. Qian and San Pang end up going into business with a third partner, named Lao Xiong. There's also the local gang—the lead gangster is called Le—and then there's Doctor Lin, played by our beloved Sam Lin, who's also in the mix as a side character who comes in and out of the story. 

I don't know, NiNi, if you wanted to add anything about your overall impressions of what the story is tackling, the themes.

NiNi

I came into this one later than you guys did, so I was catching up on kind of a binge. And also the rhythms of Taiwanese BL and Taiwanese drama are a little harder for me, so it takes me a while to get into things emotionally. So I was doing a little bit of an uphill climb? I understood where the story was going and what they were trying to do. I didn't all the way feel it? There were points that I would hit, definitely a point at the end or near the end that I felt it, but going through the pockets of the story as it was happening, I didn't get the depth of feeling about this that I would get about a story. That's not necessarily to do with it being a Taiwanese story, ‘cause there's Taiwanese stories that I have that depth of feeling about. Just this one didn't hit me in the exact same way that I think it hit you guys.

Shan

I felt this story deeply. I was very emotionally connected to the characters, very, very invested in this story and really did love it. I have, unfortunately, some serious critiques [laughs] for the way that the story ended up, but really loved it along the way, was super invested. And part of that might come from my relative comfort with the tropes that were at play.

NiNi

It might be, because I'm an eldest sibling and I understand the feelings of responsibility and wanting to be somebody who takes care of your siblings and an example for them and to be strong for them and all of that. If there is any character that I really glommed onto, it was Wei Qian. But then what that left me with was a disconnect from some of his thought processes and actions later down in the story? There were things that I wanted to understand more that I didn't understand about the way that he was processing certain things. That's my thing. That's not a problem with the story, I think that's my reaction to the story.

Ben

I think in the early parts of the story I was really with everything that it was doing. I got Wei Qian’s whole deal fairly quickly. He's, like, 13 to 15 and his mom is dead. His dad is dead or not in the picture. And he's got a little sister that he has to take care of. And the neighbors are willing to help accommodate this but he's gotta get money some sort of way, so he ends up wrapped up with the local gang. I also got the way they would feel sympathy for another kid who's on the street struggling as well. I totally get them adopting someone else who seems like he's going through some shit the way they are too. 

I got the way Yuan’s thankfulness about being saved from the street and the way Wei Qian was willing to sacrifice himself for Yuan, and I totally get that turning into a kind of devotion that shifts over time, and mingles with his latent queerness. I was able to follow Yuan down that route. And I liked the way the show treated all of those developments really seriously. From Wei Qian having some sort of sexual related trauma and being really resistant to advances from women… And I also got the way that that sort of blew up in their faces when Yuan's feelings became known to them. 

I really enjoyed the early parts of the story. I think Ray Jiang directed this? Ray’s tendency to use longer shots of characters working in the space together worked really well for me here, and the actors had really good timing for me to get a strong sense of the dynamics between their characters. So I was really able to pull a lot of the expected emotional beats out of a lot of little things in this show early on.

00:20:16 Unknown: The Pseudo Incest Trope

Ben

I actually waited until like week six, I think, Shan, was when you told me it was time to start watching? I have deep qualms with the stepbrothers trope. I don't usually connect to it or enjoy it.

NiNi

I don't have an issue with the stepbrothers trope, but this didn't feel like stepbrothers to me. The relationship between Wei Qian and Yuan felt almost paternalistic, and that was, I think, deliberately something that Wei Qian did put that distance between them. I did not see how Wei Qian overcame that, he did it so deliberately and he reinforced it so deliberately over and over throughout the years, and I feel like the turn into romance didn't quite work for me?

Ben

Why do you think the stepbrothers taboo doesn't normally bother you the way it might for other people?

NiNi

It depends on how long they've been raised together. A lot of times when we're getting these stepbrothers trope stories, they're new stepbrothers or they haven't been stepbrothers for very long, or they were close to adults when their parents got together. And so it's… doesn't feel like a sibling relationship to me.

Ben

Shan, you've watched a lot of dramas.

Shan

Sure have.

Ben

What's your read of the stepbrother stuff?

Shan

I wanted to talk about accurate categorization here, because this is not actually a stepbrothers trope. The stepbrothers trope is very popular in yaoi manga, and consequently in BL. But Unknown is more, I think, accurately categorized as a pseudo incest story. And that goes beyond BL. That is actually quite popular [laughs] in Asian dramas more broadly, and also shows up quite a lot in het romance. And it's more about people who are coming together in some kind of family arrangement, and then the point of the trope is that the relationship changes over time and we follow that relationship change. 

There's this impression, I think, that people like it mostly because, “Ooh, it's so titillating. It's so taboo.” For folks who enjoy the pseudo incest trope—and I count myself one of them, I've watched a lot of these kinds of dramas—the appeal of it is that a relationship change narrative is really interesting. It's a lot of deep emotional stuff when you are talking about someone who's really important to you in one specific way, and then trying to transform that relationship to have them be important to you in a different way. That can feel really risky and really dangerous, to put at threat the relationship that you already have for the relationship that you now want. That is not a dynamic that is exclusive to the pseudo incest trope!

NiNi

It feels like an extension of friends to lovers.

Shan

Exactly.

NiNi

A higher risk, higher degree of difficulty friends to lovers.

Shan

Exactly right, NiNi. I also love the friend to lovers trope. I also like enemies to lovers, which is maybe not as deep, but still revolves around that relationship change. I think for a lot of people, that's the appeal. It's a higher stakes version of the friends to lovers trope. 

I think Unknown did a fantastic job with this trope… for the first three quarters of its story. Unfortunately, where it fell down was in the most important part, which is that relationship turn. We followed Yuan through his relationship turn. We saw his feelings for Qian change over time. We saw him try his best to cope with them alone. We saw when he could no longer do that and the feelings poured out of him and that caused a huge rupture. We saw him take time away. We saw his devotion stay strong through a separation and through many years apart. We saw him come back as an adult and decide to pursue the relationship he wanted because he was so certain that he still wanted it. We saw that whole process for Yuan. 

Where the show really dropped the ball is that we didn't see that same deep process happen for Wei Qian. We saw it start, we saw him learn about his younger brother's feelings for him and have an initial response of shock and anger and some revulsion. We saw him push Yuan away. We saw him miss him terribly and regret pushing him away. We saw him start to change the way he saw him when he came back as an adult, and start to get more comfortable with seeking him out as a partner instead of as a younger brother. And then we just saw an abrupt flipped switch, where suddenly he was comfortable not only being in a romance, but in a sexual relationship. And I think that's where they really dropped the ball, is in that transition at the end. And unfortunately, that was the most important part of the story. [laughs] So it's a pretty shitty place to drop the ball, show! 

But, this show did so many of my favorite things—found family, intergenerational family trauma, a serious relationship change narrative. These are like three of my most favorite things in drama. The characters were struggling through poverty, that's another big thing that I love to see depicted well in drama, and the show took it seriously. This show, it felt like, was almost made in a lab to, like, hook me in the heart. And I still have a lot of warm feelings about it and love it, even though it kind of let me down in the end. 

But I'm curious, Ben, to hear you reflect, because I know versions of this trope have caused trouble for you before. I feel like you did better with this than you maybe thought you would, Ben.

Ben

So as someone who has had slurs thrown at him with real intent, I am particularly sensitive to narratives that wanna play with taboo that reflects some of the worst disingenuous presumptions about how queer people behave. I don't always enjoy these sort of narratives where they wanna deal with family members coming of age and developing feelings for each other and then wanting to pursue them. I often struggle with stepsibling relationships in particular because their parents had a romance. I don't usually enjoy the discord that the stepbrothers relationship is introducing to the genuine attempt by their parents to blend their families. 

I don't think this show prickled that because they're more akin to orphans than stepsiblings. I'm less perturbed by orphans who use familial terms to establish closeness and present themselves as a unit to other people, wanting to change that down the road. Also, a smart thing the show did was they used three actors to play Yuan to reflect his growth and change over time, which was a very good choice for this kind of story.

00:27:53 Unknown: San Pang, Li Li, and Family in the Narrative

Shan

The other piece of this trope—the pseudo incest trope—that adds a layer, is that the taboo associated with incest does become part of the story. The external community and their other loved ones become an important part of the decision-making around the relationship change. You're gonna see other people being uncomfortable with the change in the relationship, so it adds this layer of complexity. 

Here, the most important and main stand-in for that, we have San Pang, who has been raised alongside them as their neighbor, who also sees himself as an older brother to Yuan and Li Li, who is the first person to catch on to Yuan’s feelings. He is the one who puts it together and sees the way Yuan’s feelings are changing, and he's the one who tells Qian. In the wake of his coming out to Qian—admitting that he is gay, but not saying who he likes—San Pang is the one who says, “I'm pretty sure you're the person he likes, bro,” and he tries to interfere. He goes to Yuan on his own and he says,”I am seeing this. I want you to understand that it's not something you can pursue. You're going to put so much stress on your brother if you let him find out.” 

There are some great scenes between San Pang and Yuan where they have really important conversations about why it's quote unquote wrong for him to feel this way about Qian, why San Pang feels so uncomfortable with it. He tries to intervene. It doesn't work, and then San Pang’s the one who helps Qian come up with a plan to send Yuan abroad. He was a very important part of that storyline. 

He also is a very important part of the storyline when Yuan comes back as an adult, because he, in those intervening years, has gone through his own journey of his changing feelings for somebody that he also considered a quasi-sibling, and has maybe mellowed out a little bit about what it would mean for the two of them to be together. He sees that the feelings are still there, sees how miserable Qian was when Yuan was gone, and he kind of changes his tune and says, “Maybe I was wrong to try to get in the way of this. Maybe this is the thing that will make you, my best friend in the world who I love, happy, and maybe that's right.” He was such a crucial character in this narrative and I just really loved the way the show used his character as a stand-in for what you would normally see happen with parents in a drama like this.

NiNi

He just wanted to protect everybody. He wants to protect them individually, he wants to protect their family unit. It's very sweet.

Ben

He's like the big cousin who also doesn't know what to do. Wei Qian is stuck with this role, having to care for his sister and the brother that they adopted. That takes a huge amount of personal fortitude to choose to do all of that. San Pang clearly sees this from a young age, and he's always trying to help the best he can. But he's just as young as them and it’s not like he brings any special knowledge to the table. He has these instincts that are grounded in the expected orthodoxy of a family unit, and he's trying to help them replicate that, because he earnestly believes that maybe these things can help them. 

Like, he recognizes that Wei Qian is alone with this huge responsibility he's carrying, and reasonably decides that maybe if he gets a partner who can appreciate that, the mental load on Wei Qian would be better. And as far as he knows, Wei Qian likes girls, so he tries to find women who might be interested in him. That doesn't go well. It's the same thing with always showing up at the clinic when Wei Qian gets the shit beat out of him with the gangster stuff. And even with Yuan, Yuan's feelings come up and he tries to help them, and even when they suggest sending Yuan away, they just wanted him to get some room from Wei Qian to maybe feel something for someone else. Yuan being gay was not their biggest concern. Yuan having feelings for Wei Qian was their primary concern. 

I joked, when he came back sassier and even gayer, that he clearly found his people [laughs] while was in New York. 

Shan

[laughs] Mmhmm. 

Ben

And I ended up really loving San Pang for that. Despite his reticence about Wei Qian, he ends up developing feelings for Li Li, and I think it's because they had those big fights where he was forced to reckon with the nature of these taboos and the orthodoxy they enforce, and whether or not they applied here or not. I feel like San Pang ending up in a relationship with Li Li is intentional by the narrative to draw that line and say, “If this is okay, why not this?”

Shan 

We should talk more about Li Li. One of the things I do credit this show with is caring about the whole family as a unit, and not only about the romance. Her involvement in the story and her relationship with her brothers was just a really important aspect to drive that point home. 

I loved Li Li as a character. She's the little sister that everybody takes care of, including Yuan. She's the one who let him in. When he first followed Wei Qian home, she claimed him as her brother first and brought him into the family. She has a very close but also very different relationship with each of her brothers. And we saw how those bonds held and shifted over time. And when their relationship changed and they decided to be together romantically, Li Li accepted it.

I think she always knew that their relationship was different. What was interesting, I think, and such a good choice, is that she never seemed to feel threatened by that. She was comfortable and secure, knowing that they both loved her. Even though their relationship could maybe sometimes crowd her out. 

Ben 

I really liked that moment in episode 11. We got this little breakdown from her about how nobody cares about Qian. She started to really process, as an adult now, that Wei Qian hid a lot of his suffering from them. 

I actually really like that Li Li got to do teenage rebellion. It says a lot about how effectively Wei Qian did his role as provider that she got to be a bratty teen. 

NiNi 

I feel like as a family story this hits me more than as a romance. Wei Qian’s relationship with both Yuan and Li Li feels parental more than sibling. Li Li and Yuan feel like siblings. 

Shan 

One of the interesting choices that I really appreciate in the story—in the early stages—is that while Wei Qian, I think, was trying to be a parental figure to both of them, Yuan never really accepted that, even when he was younger. And we saw that theme repeat throughout the show of Yuan saying, “You don't have to do it alone. I'm here to help you.” He always, always, always wanted to be a partner to Wei Qian. 

NiNi 

That is true, but this is coming from Yuan’s side. I absolutely see how Yuan made sure, maybe not even consciously, he wanted it to be clear where the boundaries were and the boundary was that, “We are family, we love each other, but you are not my parent, you are not my brother, you are somebody that I am partnered with. We are doing this together in this way.” Yuan always made that distinction. Wei Qian [laughs] is my problem here.

00:35:48 Unknown: The Ending Stumble

Shan 

We should get into where the show stumbled hard, because that's what it all comes down to, right? This big stumble in episode 11. 

NiNi 

Yeah, it just kind of sits over everything and it sits over my entire perception of the story now. I feel like I can't even think of the rest of the story without thinking about how it didn't take me where it needed to go at the end. Yuan comes back to Taiwan and it feels like for Wei Qian, maybe some things have changed, but he's doing a lot to not let this thing happen. And it doesn't feel like a thing that he's fighting against—’cause if it felt like something that he was fighting against, I feel like I could buy it. If it's something that his heart really desires, but his brain is telling him he can't do, like, that works, right? But it doesn't feel like that. 

I don't get where he got shaken. Like, I got the emotional shake. When Yuan gets kidnapped, ‘cause that's a thing that happens, you feel that fear that he had in that moment that he would lose Yuan. I understood why in that moment he would accept that he maybe had these emotions, these feelings that he needed to interrogate for Yuan, and they were churning him up inside, and they got broken out by this thing that happened that shook him. The emotional turn, totally believed. The turn where that goes romantic and sexual, that's the part that—it didn't carry me there. 

Shan 

I do agree with that last bit of what you said. I don't see it the same way as you in terms of not seeing the arc of his feelings starting to change. I think that was very clearly the arc of episodes 7 through 10 for Qian. During their separation, we saw how not functional, frankly, he was without Yuan around. He survived, he got through every day, but he was deeply unhappy. Everybody in his life could see it. He was regretful, he was missing him all the time. And punishing himself and withholding himself from talking to Yuan.

When Yuan came back, he started to interact with him differently. We saw the way that his physical awareness of him was different. We saw him start to seek him out more. We did see him start letting him in on some adult problem solving like he wouldn't have before. He still had his walls up, of course, he was still trying to consciously deny that he was willing to change their relationship in that way. But I do think the show took us through and showed us some very clear moments where his feelings were starting to shift and he was still fighting it. And then, of course, the kidnapping incident really shook him up. 

I think where the failure for me happened was in the moment where this suddenly turned into a sexual desire that we hadn't seen build, at all. And so that is the missing piece for me. They needed a couple more beats in the story there, between him coming to this emotional realization of his desire to keep Yuan next to him forever, and for that to then build into a sexual attraction that he was comfortable acting on. And I think that latter part is where they really dropped the ball. They have him literally say, “I'm not ready yet. I haven't figured out what I'm comfortable with yet.” And then like, literally two minutes later, he's like, “Fuck it, never mind.” And they're just going to town on each other. 

That didn't work for me at all. It was a very strange choice. It was a mistake. The show just really fumbled, and it sucks because they fumbled at the most important part of the story after building it so beautifully for ten weeks to just drop the ball that hard. It's a little bit baffling to me? 

Ben 

Episode 10 ends at the huge emotional turn for Wei Qian. And it was really frustrating for the show to conflate the emotional turn and the sexual turn and try and follow that immediately with the sex in the next episode. That was not the right choice. If the show had done the emotional turn and then spent at least half the episode dealing with this building sexual tension, that would have been interesting. 

The show was obsessed with staying on Yuan's perspective the whole time. It would have been totally fine if Yuan was crackling with sexual energy at the knowledge that Wei Qian had finally hit the emotional turn. But instead they really wanted to have reward sex and then focus on this stupid health scare plot. The problem is, the sex scene isn't good because there's no arc to it. Yuan has been ready to fuck this man for ten years and Wei Qian hasn't been ready to fuck anyone for, like, 15 years. 

They brought up this whole notion that part of Wei Qian's closed-off nature about sex is because his mom possibly abused him. And I just really did not enjoy the show rushing into this sudden sexual comfortability with Wei Qian after showing us that he did not have a good relationship with sex, and I feel like that needed to be resolved before those two were going to be able to have that sort of moment. As a result, the sex scene doesn't create much of an emotional arc, and the show knows this too, because they fucking fill it with stupid Yuan flashbacks. This should be about the change in Wei Qian, not the culmination of Yuan's feelings. 

Wei Qian's reticence about sex is not handled by the story, whether it be discovering queerness in himself or processing the sexual trauma from his mom or getting over whatever blocks about the kid you see as your brother wants to be with you. That part of it was missing when they had set up for it with the end of episode 10, where Wei Qian let down whatever big emotional barrier was between, “I need to protect Yuan,” versus, “I don't wanna be without Yuan.” They were prepped for it, totally, to go into that next area. And then they just didn't, and decided to make it about Wei Qian having a blood clot. 

NiNi 

All the pieces were actually there, they're just in the wrong order. There's a scene after the fact where they're doing this dating SIM game or whatever at work and Wei Qian is having these flashbacks to the sex scene. Why did they not let him have that moment as a fantasy moment before—

Shan 

Yes! 

NiNi

—rather than a flashback moment after? 

Ben 

That's what I also thought at the time. But you know how angry I get on this podcast [Ben and Shan laugh] about having to mentally rejigger the show [NiNi laughs] to make it fucking work. I will not!

Shan 

Besties! That's what they do in the book! That is exactly what they do in the book! [laughs]

Ben 

That's so fuckin’ aggravating. [laughs] I’m so fucking mad! 

Shan 

It’s so aggravating! All the things we're saying they should have done, they fucking did in the book! And I don't [claps hands together] know why the show didn't do it. I'm so mad! 

Ben 

She clappin’, yo, she mad. 

[all laugh]

00:43:32 Unknown: Adapting the Da Ge Novel

Shan 

We haven't talked too much yet about the novel, but I do wanna talk a little bit about some of the adaptation choices that were made here. This show is an adaptation of the novel Da Ge by Priest, who is a very well known danmei author. Other live action adaptations of her books include Word of Honor, Guardian, Justice in the Dark... several others, a lot of them have now been shelved or didn't get to finish airing because of the ban in China. So, it was extremely exciting for fans of her works to see a Taiwanese production take up an adaptation of one of her books, because we know that we're not gonna get good adaptations of danmei anymore out of China, because they are banning queer content and censoring it all to hell—even more than other countries. 

They made a lot of really smart adaptation choices in the way that they structured the show. The book is a lot more complex, in the way that most Priest novels are. There's a lot more characters, the plots are far more intricate, there's a lot more going on. There's an additional member of the family in the book. There's another best friend in the building. There are, like, three different gangs [laughs] instead of one. There's this whole corporate real estate plot that's tied to Wei Qian's work. It's a lot more complex. 

The show did, I think, a fantastic job of making choices to streamline the story, to make it simple enough to fit into a 12 episode arc while still retaining the core themes and the core relationships. And it also did some really great work around the cultural pieces. Mainland China has a lot more deep homophobia, fatphobia, some real weirdness around the way, in media, that sex and gay sex in particular get discussed, and this show really smoothed all of that out. 

Where they really blew it on the adaptation is at this end arc. You see all these aspects of Wei Qian's emotional journey that we are lamenting the show missed. I don't really understand why the show decided to ignore that material in favor of doing what it did instead. A lot of the stuff in the final arc was not in the book at all. If you are someone who loved this story and is disappointed in the ending, I just can't recommend highly enough that you read that book. 

Ben 

That's the theme of this episode. [laughs] If you enjoyed these shows, go do something else. 

Shan 

[laughs] Do something else! No, but do watch Unknown. I do love this show. I don't wanna say that you shouldn’t watch it, but you should go read the book too, ‘cause it'll fill in some pieces that we're missing here.

00:46:15 Unknown: Final Thoughts and Ratings

Ben 

I totally get NiNi maybe not being super connected to what was goin’ on, and if they had not fucked up episode 11, it just would have been an interesting conversation about, where does this gap form? But now we're bogged down in the fact that it's easy to point to the lack of payoff. I watched episode 12 this morning before we're recording this session. And I was like, “Okay, I guess this is fine.” [Shan laugh] This is meant to feel like, almost, epilogue. And I enjoyed the big family hand hold. But I really feel like they really failed at the final steps of the “Yuan and Wei Qian are now a couple” turn, which is really annoying because there were so many things that it did great. 

In the very final episode, there's this really great sequence when we learn that Li Li is pregnant and they have the reaction in the hallway and everybody's coming out of different doors that you don't expect. 

Shan 

That is the funniest scene. 

Ben 

Every time Wei Qian wanted to kill San Pang? [Shan laughs] Some of the best scenes in this show. Like, fucking Yuan sitting on the couch eatin’ his tomatoes, he was enjoying the chaos. We got this other woman who might be with Wei Qian, “I can take care of my brother.”

[Ben and Shan laugh] 

Shan 

He's like, “Don't you worry about it.” I did love those moments of Yuan being like, “Oh, I'm not the family problem now, ha!” [laughs] He's just like sitting back and enjoying it. 

Even at the end, I was frustrated with the last two episodes, but I still had a lot of affection for these characters and this family. This isn't an ending that completely ruined the show, for me. 

Ben 

Shan has a bat she holds called coulda been a 10 that she bashes sh— 

Shan

Yes! [laughs] 

Ben

—bashes shows with.

Shan 

Goddammit! One of the pieces of my frustration here is that this was on track to possibly be the best Taiwanese BL ever made. 

NiNi

Okay, so ratings. Shan, let's have you go first. What do you rate Unknown?

Shan

I gave it a 9. I had to take out my coulda been a 10 bat. 

I think that the narrative and the character work was so strong through the first 10 episodes that I can't take it lower than that. It's sticking with me. It's been a while since I finished the show, and I still think about it every single day. I think about these characters all the time, and that's not gonna go away just because the last couple episodes were a little bit disappointing for me.

NiNi

Ben, how about you?

Ben

Because I am in the business of recommending things—it's my whole shtick—this is an 8.5. It sits between “BL fans should watch this” and “People who like romance should watch this,” for me. I can't give it a 9 because I feel really strongly about the episode 11/12 caveats. But I don't wanna pretend that I didn't think that this cast did a really great job capturing the nuances of their dynamics. And even if they're let down a little bit by some of the direction and writing choices towards the end, I think that the family portion of this is so good, genuinely. So I do think this show is worth watching for people who enjoy the kinds of narratives the show wants to play with. We just need to understand that it stumbles at the end. 

NiNi?

NiNi

I'm having a hard time with this one because in my head this isn't a BL. If I had to put it into a category in my head, it would get slotted near to something like a Moonlight Chicken or 180 D. But it doesn't have the queer bona fides that either of those have. It feels like a family drama that had a romance in it that happened to be this kid falling in love with somebody who is taking care of him. But the idea of it being a central romance, I just didn't buy. So it was a difficult one for me to rate in terms of how I felt about it as a romance. 

In the end, I ended up at an 8 for the show. I think as a family drama, it's excellent. As a family drama, I would probably give it a 9.5 and as a romance, I would probably give it a 7, and so I wind up somewhere in the middle, which for me is an 8. I feel like it's a solid 8 show.

Ben

It's an 8.5 from The Conversation, recommended with specific reservations!

NiNi

You gotta get that .5 in. It's fine.

Shan

We gotta get it in. We gotta—

Ben

That's just how math works!

Shan

—gotta get it in.

NiNi

I know, I'm allowing you to have math. It was a good show.

Ben

It could have been an excellent show, but hmph!

Shan

So close to being one of my all time favorite dramas. It's fine, I'm just gonna go cry about it.

Ben

You were mad about it, because Shan wasn't even buggin’ me on a Saturday, like, “Go watch this show, Ben. Go watch it right now. Wake up, gay boy! Go watch the show so I can talk.”

[Ben and NiNi laugh]

Shan

Ben knew I didn't like the final episodes ‘cause I was not asking him if he watched them yet. [laugh] I was like, I don't wanna talk about it!

00:51:53 - Whither Taiwanese BL?

NiNi 

I want us to talk a little bit about where Taiwanese BL is and what's been happening with it lately and whether it is making the leap in the same ways that other countries appear to be making the leap lately. Whatever that leap is for them. 

I feel in some ways like Taiwanese BL has been a bit stagnant. 

Ben 

Taiwan is a super small country and… politically, they have been a little distracted for a few years! They're not in a position to do a ton more with BL right now. I don't think that we're gonna see a huge sudden surge from Taiwan. The best thing about Unknown is that Taiwan is not out of the game altogether, ‘cause I was real worried! The HIStory franchise is in ruins, and we hadn't really seen something of this production caliber in a while. 

Shan 

I'm with you, Ben. Honestly, when Unknown started airing, I was like, “Oh, thank God, Taiwan can still do it.” I have always been a fan of Taiwanese BLs, which might feel a little bit discordant because [laughs] I am someone who cares a lot about writing and storytelling and story is usually, honestly, the weakest part of Taiwanese BL. They usually don't have good writing. But, what I've always connected to in Taiwanese BLs is, I feel like they have a really good handle on relationship dynamics. They're really good at building characters that connect well with each other emotionally, physically—they've always done really good physical intimacy work in their shows, they usually cast really well for chemistry—and so usually in Taiwanese BLs, it's the characters and the character dynamics that hook me, more than the story. 

So I was really excited to see the high quality Taiwanese production that I knew had a good story underpinning it. I hope to see more. I personally had a great time with Kiseki: Dear To Me, but it is not exactly high art. [laughs] And this run of VBL shows was so bad that I was really losing faith. I had made a commitment that I was going to at least try watching every single Taiwanese BL that comes out. I'm still sticking with that, but I was starting to flag a little bit because some of these shows were so bad. 

So I was so thrilled to see that they still were doing productions of this caliber. And Unknown has been quite successful and got them a lot of positive attention, and so I'm hopeful that they'll be able to continue putting together productions like this, drawing actors of the caliber that they got for this show. I'm more hopeful because this show happened than I was certainly at the end of the year. 

Ben 

I will say the way that the Taiwanese actors talk about the work remains one of my favorite things. I be deep in these cast interviews, seein’ what they have to say about this work, and these Taiwanese boys have really nuanced and complex feelings about the work they're doing playing queer characters. I feel the respect and sometimes the duty they feel to get it right in the way they talk about their characters and the work they're doing. That's why I remain very friendly to… even [laughs] some of the jankiest Taiwanese BLs. These boys take playing queerness seriously. It's really warming for me to know that these guys understand that they're portraying queer people and that queer people will be affected by their portrayals. 

NiNi 

I think I just don't have the connection to Taiwanese drama. I'm coming at this from kdrama, through jdrama, through Thai drama. Taiwan’s the last place that I landed, and I think that I just haven't made the leap yet in terms of style and rhythms and all those other things. Mostly because I don't get to see a lot of it, there is not much. And I think that that definitely impacts how I feel about Taiwanese drama and Taiwanese BL. There are some I love—you know, I'm a staunch lover of HIStory 2: Right or Wrong. You know how I feel about Make Our Days Count. You know how I feel about We Best Love. But none of those, except maybe Right or Wrong, as Shan pointed out, has really stellar writing. 

Ben 

Why would you mention Make Our Days Count? I'm so mad all of a sudden! [laughs]

Shan 

No! Don't go there, Ben. Earmuffs!

NiNi 

We're never gonna get out of a Taiwanese BL conversation without it coming up. It just [laughs] isn’t gonna happen. 

Ben 

[volume raising] Wanna talk about endings for Taiwanese—

Shan

No!

Ben

—BLs?! [laughs]

Shan 

No, we do not! Stop. Pause. NiNi, continue your point. 

NiNi 

What have I done? [laughs] 

Yeah, I agree with Shan that the writing isn't great, and that's maybe one of the reasons that I haven't latched on to Taiwanese BL in the way that I have to others, because I am also a writing person. I can get behind a story for other reasons, and I have. I've gotten behind stories that were not written well because there was some other element of them that really grabbed me, and that's what has happened to me in the Taiwanese BLs that I have liked. But just generally, I don't gravitate in this direction, and there hasn't really been anything yet that makes me wanna gravitate more in this direction?

I recognise the strength of character development. I recognise the fantastic acting in a lotta instances, some of these guys are amazing actors. I just, it hasn't moved me in the kind of ways that I've been moved from other things. And it kinda makes me sad in some ways. I'm still looking for that Taiwanese BL that's gonna grab me by the throat. I haven't found that one yet. I'll keep looking. 

Shan 

It's hard, too, ‘cause like Ben said, it's such a small industry. We don't get that many Taiwanese BLs and we certainly don't get that many of quality. But, I've always really loved the approach to BL that Taiwan brings. 

Ben 

I really feel like when they make BL, somebody in the room is asking how gay people might feel about some of the choices they're making. 

Shan 

I'm gonna keep showing up for Taiwanese BL. I'm gonna keep watching them. I really hope that we get to see more productions of this caliber. I hope that we get to see them working from strong source material, so that the storytelling can really live up to what the casts are bringing. I'm excited to see what comes out next. 

NiNi 

Ray Jiang can stay, though, I like his directorial style. He keeps doing stuff and he hits on something that really pops? I feel like that's the one that's gonna grab me. If I wasn't terrified of what Lin Pei Yu was capable of after Kiseki. If I could get Lin Pei Yu at her best plus Ray Jiang at his best, with basically any of the actors I've ever seen in Taiwanese BL, maybe we'll get something that will grab me by the throat. 

Anyway, that is going to wrap us up on… what's the name of this episode? 

Shan 

Have we decided yet? Hmm. 

Ben 

The State of Taiwan, Taiwanese BL episode, whatever. 

NiNi 

Okay. That is going to wrap us up on our Taiwan episode. We out!

Thank you for being here, Shan. Say bye to the people. 

Shan 

Thank you for having me. Bye, people! 

NiNi 

Say bye to the people, Ben. 

Ben 

Peace.

[absolutebl]

This Week in BL - It's Quiet but Sweet RN

Organized, in each category, with ones I'm enjoying most at the top.

I'm early I know, I have a v busy weekend.

Jan 2025 Week 2

Ongoing Series - Thai

Your Sky (Sun iQIYI) ep 8 of 12 - So awkward and so cute! I love the sibling relationships in this show. They’re all so wonderful. 

Could we talk about Thomas in that aborted sex scene? That ultra sensual sniff test neck thing?

He did a phenomenal job at conveying Japanese thirst with Taiwanese payback, unique IMHO for Thai BL. Kong did a pretty standard Thai style uke call and response, perhaps a bit more sexy than most. But Thomas was really spectacular. All in all, a particularly sensual make-out scene, rare in this kind of BL. I applaud the actors and director.

These two are so lovely.

OMG Lee has a phi he likes? Where did this nugget of joy come from?

Hyung romance crumbs are a go! Just for me? How kind. Goodness Lee has got great game, watch that boy work. He certainly didn’t get it from his older brother. Also that was such a smooth approach, what a classy way to get permission to court. I don’t know why we got this inserted tiny short story, but I’m not mad about it. I hope we get more. But this is crumbs, can’t expect it. 

ThamePo (Fri YT) ep 5 of 12 - I love how Po understands Nano's feeling of heartbreak as just that, since to lose a friend (or friends) can be as painful as losing a lover. Po is such an empathic character, I love him so. 

The Heart Killers (Weds Gaga) ep 7 of 12 - I did bark with laughter at Style’s dad interrupting them. Also I enjoy the tension of knowing that there is doom in coming. It’s fun to watch these actors really stretch themselves to portray loving boyfriends with secrets. Bison looks like a determined little feral thing, Fadel just looks tired poor baby. 

Caged Again (Fri Gaga) ep 10 end - Pet fish baby + cat = snack…… EPIC. Also giving a cat a career as a stuntman is genius. 

Final Thoughts

A sweet and innocent show with an absurd premise = sunshine penguin + grumpy panther become human boys and fall in love. With great leads and sides, a solid (if campy) support cast, and sweetly queer backbone, this still never entirely resonated with me because it was just a little too slow. Still I can totally understand why others loved it so much. 8/10 

Fourever You (Thurs YT) ep 15 of 16 - I love that North has no artifice whatsoever. But frankly I’m really more interested in the 2 pairings still to come. If we are lucky. Arthit “getting bitten by piranhas” thing was hilarious. 

Sangmin Dinneaw (Sun iQIYI) ep 2 of 10 - Of course I love the argument over linguistics, this time honorifics. So good. But the rest of this ep was pretty slow. 

Perfect 10 Liners (Sun YT) ep 11 of 24 - Gun is a little dim, poor thing, but I do kinda adore him. Yotha is a bit of a melodramatic queen though I love how he deadpan responds to teasing and always acts exactly like a boyfriend. And I see GMMTV’s patented “single brain cell club” is back. 

The Boy Next World (Sun IQIYI) ep 1 of 10 - Well it’s certainly intriguing. And I like this pair better here than in their first series. 

Ossan‘s Love Thailand (Mon YouTube) ep 1 of 12 - Oof. Well, it’s better than the original, but that’s not saying much (from me). It’s slightly less overacted. I still find the lead utterly unappealing and I have no idea why anyone, including the audience, is supposed to be interested in him. But if he looks like Earth maybe it makes a little bit more sense? Mix is great. Honestly? This just made me wanna rewatch Thousand Stars.  

Ongoing Series - Not Thai

See Your Love (Taiwan Weds Gaga) ep 13 end - What a darling little show. I genuinely couldn’t have enjoyed it more. About a deaf care worker and his spoiled broken little prince. Taiwanese at its softest and best. Highly recommended. Easy 9/10

(for me the only flaws are the first 1/3 and the fact that it's unlikely this will be a big rewatch for me)

Our Youth AKA Miseinen: Mijukuna Oretachi wa Bukiyo ni Shinkochu (Japan Tues Gaga) ep 10 end - The feeding each other water thing when the water-bottle trope is so prevalent in JBL = just so good. 

Summation 

Adapted from a Korean Webtoon I can see why this went to Japan, it's super harsh for KBL Essentially a story about two lonely boys from opposite sides of the track who fall madly in love in high school, despite the fact that one is  repressed and the other abused. Despite a rough premise (trigger warnings) this is an oddly lovely little show. Darker than is my personal preference but sublimely stylish, turns out sometimes that combo works for me (see The 8th Sense). The world that springs to mind is “refined.” I enjoyed the restful distancing feel of the filming style.

This is an easy 9/10 from me. 

Eternal Butler (Taiwan Fri Gaga) ep 5 of 12 - I’m sorry but if you have a sex robot, he should be self lubing. Just saying. Also…… better at parking (pun not intended). I like the sides now. I’m enjoying this more than the first installment, easer power dynamic to digest. I do kinda adore the main couple and all their kinks. 

When it Rains it Pours (Japan Thurs Gaga) ep 1 of 10 - Convoluted story about a man in a relationship who is sexually unfulfilled and his friend who is in love with him, who accidentally become secret confidants.

Teenager Judge (Vietnam Sat YT) ep 15 of ? - no time this week, two next week.

It's airing but......

Winter Is Not The Death of Summer (Thai ???) - has been picked up to air on WeTV, or something? Criminals who meet in prison fall in love. I did find it on YouTube, initially un-subbed, then subs happened by which time I got distracted. It is very pulp but intriguing. For now it's to the wayside until someone tells me it landed safely. Occasionally Thai pulps want to be edgy and it's not a good look on them. But sometimes they do good.

In Case You Missed it

End of year wraps are here!

2024 Trend Report

MY BEST & WORST BLs of 2024

Best Kisses (and sex scenes) of 2024

BL's 2024 Quirky Awards

2024 Awards - Quick Picks

Next Week Looks Like This:

January Drops

1/15 Impression of Youth (Taiwan Weds Viki iQIYI) 9 eps - Same team as DNA Says Love You, so I have high hopes.

2025 Line Up

BL Announced for 2025 - PART 1

BL Announced for 2025 - PART 2

20 BLs Announced for 2025 That I'm Really Excited About

GMMTV 2025 Line Up - My Totally Biased and Wildly Flawed Feels

THIS WEEK’S BEST MOMENTS

It me. (Fourever You)

Gayest bridge in Thailand is back!

Love a good lap lie.

I NEED MOAR!!! (all Your Sky)

(last week)

The tag BLigade: @doorajar @solitaryandwandering @my-rose-tinted-glasses @babymbbatinygirl @babymbbatinygirl @isisanna-blog @mmastertheone @pickletrip @aliceisathome @urikawa-miyuki @tokillamonger @sunflower-positiiivity @rocketturtle4 @blglplus @anythinggoesintheshire @everlightly @renafire @mestizashinrin @bl-bam-beyond @small-dark-and-delicious @saezurumurmurs

[lazzarella]

2024 Roundup - BL edition

It's done!! I spent WAY too long on this post and I have no idea why, but I've done it now haha

2024 was the year I started watching live action BL series (I went over how I got here a bit in this post, so I won't go over it again; I also reflected a little on how nice it's been to watch all these shows), so my focus wasn't on watching what's new (everything was new to me) but mostly playing catch up. That said, I did watch enough 2024 releases to let me do a top ten, so why not?

In all honesty, I'm a little embarrassed to be posting this. Like I said, I only started this year, so I'm not really sure my top shows of the year are particularly valuable or interesting to anyone but me, but I do love me a list! And I spent all this time on this post, so, here we go?

First, some numbers:

I watched around 25 or so 2024 releases (some spanned 2023 and 2024, but I don't feel like double checking all the 2023 releases I've logged on MDL to check when they started and finished). Of those 14 are Thai, 4 are South Korean, 5 are Japanese, 1 is Taiwanese, and one (Meet You at the Blossom) is a Thailand/Taiwan co-production iirc

My ratings ranged from 7.5 to 10, but honestly there was nothing I hated. Some I felt 'meh' about (which I won't talk about here) but even those had aspects I thought were really good. Maybe I'm just easy to please, but I'm happy. Anyway. Onto the list!

More details under the cut (with possible spoilers, but it's most personal reflection rather than any kind of analysis), but if you want just the list:

Cherry Magic Thailand

Wandee Goodday

Century of Love

Kidnap

Happy of the End

Monster Next Door

Love for Love's Sake

Boys Be Brave!

Love is a Poison

We Are

CHERRY MAGIC (THAILAND)

(This spanned 2023 and 2024, so I'm counting it!) Image from BL Watcher, edited by me

This is such a special show! Being new to BL this year, I watched this not long after I watched the Japanese live action version, and I was kind of worried it might suffer for it, but I loved it just as much. They both had aspects I liked better than the other, but I love this show so much. I've watched it three times now I think? It was my introduction to Tay and New and I fell head over heels for them haha

I really enjoy the friendships in this, but, as I'm here for the romance, I have to say Achi and Karan's love is one of the sweetest and swooniest romances I've seen maybe ever! That beach scene lives rent free in my head <33 it's also nice to see a romance with characters (barely) in their 30s

WANDEE GOODDAY (THAILAND)

Image is my own cap

This was the first show I watched week by week and I had a blast. It's been a long time since I've done that, but it was really (mostly) fun to see everyone's reactions as each episode aired

But it was a delight from start to finish—a very joyful, fun show, that I thought handled most of the heavier aspects well and all that dreamy neon was so pretty to look at. Great and Inn have excellent chemistry and their acting is really incredible. I can't wait to see them in Memoir of Rati!

(My posts on Wandee Goodday)

CENTURY OF LOVE (THAILAND)

Image from World of BL, edited by me

I waited until most episodes were out to binge this one and I'm glad I did because I think the wait would've killed me each week! I can go either way on reincarnation stories (I really like a reincarnation murder mystery though, just as a sidenote) but I really enjoyed the way it was handled here. Daou and Offroad are so lovely together (I immediately went to watch Love in Translation, which I also loved) and I enjoyed all the side characters too. The tone of the show is very much in line with what I enjoy

KIDNAP (THAILAND)

Image from World of BL, edited by me

This show was absolutely perfect to me! Ohm and Leng have incredible chemistry, and I love that Min and Q are not only tooth-achingly in love, but they're also very much in lust. The physical affection in this was so good. And not just the kissing and sex, but the hugging too!!! They made hugging an art form!

A really sweet, fluffy rom-com that was a balm for my troubled soul <333

(My posts on Kidnap)

HAPPY OF THE END (JAPAN)

Image from World of BL, edited by me

A lot heavier than the other shows on this list, but gosh, it was beautiful. I'm such a sucker for 'broken' people finding solace in each other and trying to navigate a way to be happy together. I don't have a lot to say about this one because there was so much to unpack, but I thoroughly loved it, and the acting was so good

MONSTER NEXT DOOR (THAILAND)

Image from World of BL, edited by me

And now for something completely different!

This has to be one of the sweetest things I've ever seen in my life! God and Diew gave me a toothache every week, but I thought it dealt with some of the more serious aspects really nicely too. I enjoyed that the conflict was from their different personalities and ways of socialising and loving, essentially. As sugary sweet as this was, I found that aspect to be very realistic and grounded. But the best part was that neither was set up as being 'wrong' for being the way they are! They didn't have to change who they fundamentally are—just make some small adjustments. The acting was really good, too, and Big and Park have great chemistry! Looking forward to their next show

LOVE FOR LOVE'S SAKE (SOUTH KOREA)

Image from World of BL, edited by me

As I was watching, I enjoyed it quite a bit, but I wasn't like 'yeah, this is the best thing ever!!' But for weeks and weeks after I kept thinking about it. There's something very arresting about it that kept it in my mind. I love the idea of getting a do over in the form of a virtual reality game and it also vaguely reminded me of two of my favourite shows of all time: Life on Mars and Ashes to Ashes. The romance was very sweet, but felt grounded by the heavier themes of the show. And, gosh, it is GORGEOUS! Such a pretty looking show.

BOYS BE BRAVE (SOUTH KOREA)

Image from World of BL, edited by me

This show managed to be totally chaotic and totally sweet at the same time. Another very pretty looking show too! I adored Jin Woo and Gi Seop with all my heart and I like what it had to say about the ways we try to protect ourselves can end up hurting us (and others) in the end

LOVE IS A POISON (JAPAN)

Image from BoysLoveBuzz on Twitter, edited by me

Courtroom dramas (or dramedies) aren't really my thing but I DO love socially awkward weirdos falling in love, and I love lonely people finding a home in each other, and this was very funny and sweet and well acted!

WE ARE (THAILAND)

Image is my own cap

A show that didn't make me long for romance, but ache for the kind of friendship I've never really had, though certainly came closer to in my younger years. I think it's the kind of friendship you really only can have when you're this age. Maybe? Or maybe not! Anyway, enough old lady navel gazing...

Overall, it's a lovely, warm series about friendship and love that brightened my week and I'm so glad I gave it a chance. I've met some cool people because of this show AND it introduced me to my beloved Aou and Boom

(My posts on We Are)

And I want to give a special mention to Meet You at the Blossom! That was a wild ride too

Anyway, I highly doubt anyone's read all that (I barely wanted to re-read it myself haha) but if you DID, then thank you! It's been such a joy to delve into these shows and to have such a wealth of happy queer romances to enjoy. I do wish I'd found them sooner, but I've found them now, and I can't wait for what 2025 has in store

My BL Masterlist (ranked by country) / MyDramaList

(Images in the main baner for this post are a mix of my caps, caps found on MDL, World of BL, BL Watcher and the same twitter account I mentioned under Love is a Poison; I realised a little too late it might not be okay to use other's images, even with credit... Although, I think the World of BL images are mostly grabbed from the Gaga previews, anyway)

[bl-bracket]

What would you recommend as the first bl to show someone just starting to watch bls/qls?

This is a really hard question tbh. Cause a lot depends on someone's personal tastes and what type of other shows they have watched before. And it's going to differ between countries. And also my recs are going to be limited to what I've actually seen or are familiar with.

For Thai bls, Bad Buddy is one that gets brought up a lot as a beginner. I also watched pretty early in my ql journey. I think it's a pretty good one for getting an idea of what Thai bls are like stylistically (as well as just being a pretty solid show). Another one I think really sets the tone would be Cherry Magic Thailand. Another solid show that doesn't veer too off the rails, while having a compelling romance, and also engaging stylistically with the genre.

Now if you're dealing with someone who isn't even ready to get a feel for the style of Thai bls, you just need to get them comfortable with the idea of bls in general, then something like I Told Sunset About You or Moonlight Chicken is probably better. Though these shows are very different tonaly so it's going to depend on the person's tastes which to recommend (itsay is more for people who enjoyed the vibes of Call Me By Your Name or other similar style).

For Korean bls, Semantic Error is a classic. It'll set you up good. It's good for beginners too since it's a solid plot that feels like a kbl, but isn't like super deep into the genre if that makes sense, The Eighth Sense is also brought up a lot as a beginner one, especially for folks more accustomed to western cinema. Another good one is Blueming, which has the artsy feel with still a strong kdrama feel.

For Japanese bls, the original Cherry Magic series is good. It definitely has the style and feel of a jdrama and sets up well the humor/fluff side of jbls. Old Fashion Cupcake is another good one for introducing more of the cozy food side of jbls. She Likes to Cook, She Likes to Eat is another well done cozy food jdrama, this time a gl. I think those all set the tone well of what to expect in those type of jbls. Now there's definitely a darker side to genre, but honestly I've still only dipped my toes into that side and it's probably not the best thing to start with someone just getting into the genre as a whole lol.

For Taiwanese bls, honestly See Your Love is like exactly the vibe you can expect from a Taiwanese bl. It'll teach a lot about this niche of the genre and give you a good idea for the style of a lot of the shows, while also landing well in all the most important parts. My Tooth Your Love is another one with a bit less crazy of a plot, but very much ticks the boxes of a Taiwanese bl and is a good watch!

When it comes to Chinese bls, there's so few currently available (hopefully soon that'll change) so it's hard to give recs without just listing every major title in the genre. Another barrier is that if you're not familiar with the wuxia or xianxia genres, you're going to have a pretty steep learning curve in any of those dramas you watch. (And if you're not watching wuxia/xianxia that leaves you with even fewer options). Honestly I don't think any Chinese bl is better suited than the others to give you a taste of the genre. Meet You at the Blossom is shorter and uncensored, but it's also some classic toxic stuff, which I don't know if you want to use as the introduction. The Untamed has a lot of fans independent of the bl fandom, or even just the censored chinese bl fandom, so that could be a good sign that's it's a good entry point, but it's also quite long and again, if you don't know what xianxia is, you're going to be confused a lot. Idk for Chinese bl, if you're new, just pick whichever plot sounds best to you and accept that you're not going to understand everything at first.