#I just really love Taiwanese BLs

[respectthepetty]

I will fight everyone and all of their kin in defense of Taiwanese BLs.

I get the great friendships!

I get roasting the friend's rich husband.

I get joking around with the friend's boyfriend since they are the only two in their relationship who can cook.

I get tiny pouts.

And I get all the cute domestic moments.

Never change Taiwanese BLs.

[stormyoceans]

https://x.com/BLUPDATE2022/status/1813154105747251501

ARE THOSE THE ACTORS OF LI CHENG FROM HISTORY 4 AND RJ FROM MY TOOTH YOUR LOVE???????? [LOOKS IT UP ON MDL] HOLY SHIT THEY ARE

well let me tell you. i did NOT have this pair on my 2024 bingo card but this actually looks pretty interesting!!!!!!! the story doesn't seem to be the most original one, however the trailer is nice and both pairings seem to have very good chemistry (which isn't really surprising tbh). i do have some small reservations about it, mostly because while you can always count on taiwanese BLs to deliver great chemistry, they're not as good when it comes to storytelling imho, so it's unfortunately not the first time i ended up putting one on hold (and then.. never going back to it ;;;;;;;), but im definitely giving this a chance and hopefully it will turn out to be good!!!!!

TO THE WATCH LIST IT GOES!!!!!!!!!!!

[absolutebl]

This Week in BL - Many Tiny Idiots, Some Irreverent Hotness & an Engagement

Organized, in each category, with ones I'm enjoying most at the top.

Oct 2024 Week 4

Ongoing Series - Thai

Fourever You (Thai Thurs YT) ep 4 of 16 - OK so Hill has really been trying to pick him up from the beginning? I don’t understand why there’s any doubt around girls at all. He Gay everyone. Why is Tatch (2 Moons Ambassador) the only seme in Thai BL history allowed to actually just say "I don’t date women.”

Why is that so hard?

This show is definitely frustrating me, but I must admit that it’s the one I look forward to the most each week.

Love Sick 2024 (Thai Sun iQIYI) ep 6 of 15 - I am now only watching the uncut version, and I gotta say it makes all the difference. Please don’t watch the cut version of this show if you can possibly help it. It’s like cliff's notes of cliff's notes. I love the tiny side couple of tough kid + the dork of the music club. Ah the beach sequence. Condenced WAY DOWN, I see. We lost one of the most iconic lines in all BL but i think everything is improved by how much tighter the plot is in the remake (6 episodes became 1!). So I’m enjoying it. Weirdly, I'm not sure I would be enjoying it, if I hadn’t seen the original.

Is anyone watching this on iQIYI who hasn't seen the original? Just out of curiosity. Tell me how it's going for you, would ya? 

I'm doing a face-off style watch along of this new version versus the original 2014-2015 version.

Kidnap (Fri YT) ep 8 of 12 - I don’t entirely get it. They were apart for approximately 11 minutes. I would’ve thought GMMTV would’ve drawn it out for longer and more angst. Smiley face kiss was cute, but the star of this ep was that gorgeous pale blue waffle sweater on Q. What a great color for Leng! 

Jack & Joker (Thai Mon IQIYI) ep 7 of 12 - I do like that we’re seeing an honest exploration of poverty and hopelessness. I’m not sure how I feel about it inside my BL, tho I’m willing to persavere for this pair.

Battle of the Writers (Sun YT) ep 12 end - Someone said recently "just imagine what TutorYim could do with an actual script." And you know what? I agree. Because they sure as shit haven’t gotten one yet. And it’s getting quite frustrating. I’m having JaFirst flashbacks. Frankly, 2024 has been a year of unmitigated BL nonsense narratives. And I’m tired of it. I know it’s bog standard for the genre, but it feels like there’s been more than normal faff this year.

Summary 

An incredibly convoluted, disjointed, and badly-paced drama that is about(?) some writers writing a thing and some boys who knew each other when they were kids, lots of pretty sexy times, and not much else. The visuals are gorgeous, the side couples are overly appealing (with little to no screen time), the dubbing and sound is absurdly bad, and the fantasy novel (play within a play) makes no sense whatsoever while also managing to be the show that we all actually wanted to see instead of what we were given. 6/10 

In conclusion, I have no interest in attempting to understand or revisit this show, and I certainly wouldn’t recommend it, but if you have nothing better to do…… the sex is good (frankly I have exes that satisfy all the same criteria). So there it is: this show is like a bad but still hot ex.  

Every You Every Me (Thai Mon Gaga) ep 3 of 10 - Nice to see Fiat in something again. Namping is very angel baby.  This episode made me think that this pair would do a great Thai remake of Love Tractor, and now that’s pretty much all I want in life. I enjoyed wardrobe in this episode. It looks like we get the same characters next week. Cool. 

Bad Guy My Boss (Thai Sun Gaga) ep 6 of 10 - I guess everyone is messy slutty bisexual in this show? Do I care? Not even slightly. BLabies, I don’t think I’m gonna make it. I might have to drop this one.

Ongoing Series - Not Thai

See Your Love (Taiwan Weds Gaga) ep 1-2 of 13 - I adore it, what a wonderful meet cute. I love a Taiwanese BL that starts with a gratuitous kidnapping, some chasing, and a bit of a fight sequence. We in OLD fashioned territory. 

Teenager Judge (Vietnam Sat YT) ep 5 of ? - I continue to enjoy it very much.

My Damn Business (Korea Sat YT) eps 4 of 7 - Oh! Is the sleazy boss gonna turn out to be actually a sleazy player? That would be an interesting twist.

Let Free the Curse of Taekwondo (Korea Thurs Gaga) eps 3 of 8 - I’m really not a big fan of my pain coming from Korea. I’m getting a whiff of To My Star 2 from this one. And that does not make me happy. I know: high quality high angst yada yada blah blah blah. But also unnecessary pain? No thank you. 

First Note Of Love (Taiwan Mon Gaga) ep 12 end - Of course, I love the part where Reese and Orca spoke each other’s languages.

Conclusion

Had this been produced a mere 3 or 4 years ago, I would’ve been quite enamored. But by comparison to what we’ve been getting, this is a lackluster offering. A has-been musician and a much younger composer meet, fall in love, and attempt to rectify his stalled musical career. Cute side couple of a Thai popstar + his Korean manager. Everyone is very fine and it was a fine show. I wasn’t disappointed, but I wasn’t impressed either. 8/10 

Love is Like a Poison AKA Doku Koi: Doku mo Sugireba Koi to Naru (Japan Tues Netflix?) 6 of 10 eps - It was a fun little confession and climax, there was crying, and a bridge kiss (been a while) all of this appeals to me even if they are tiny idiots (in the immortal words of @heretherebedork )

Eccentric Romance (Korea Weds Viki) eps 5-6 of 12 - More tiny idiot boyfriends who don’t realize they’re boyfriends. That’s it, that’s all that’s happening. Ostensibly there’s some kind of murder. But it seems to be acting more like set dressing than plot.

It's airing but...

The Hidden Moon (Sat WeTV) 10 eps - Supernatural romance (my ghost boyfriend trope) by Violet Rain (I Feel You Linger). A man is hired to write an article about an old mansion. He sees the ghosts of people who died at the mansion, falls in love with one of them. Was substantially recast. I loved IFYLITA except the ending so I think I'll let this one run it's course you can tell me if it's work tracking down... if they managed to land it. I have my doubts.

In case you missed it

Mew & Tul legit engaged.

Love in the Big City (Korea Viki) 8ep - Vicki dropped them all at once which means I did what I do under such circumstances and skipped to watch the final episode. (I am well aware that this makes me a monster. ) Anygay, that told me that I’m not gonna be bothering to watch the series. Now y'all can tell me how amazing it is and what I’ve missed and blah blah blah. But I’m comfortable with my choice. It’s ICRY 2.0 + HIV. And I’m not willing to play its literatti game. At some point I might watch it on fast-forward for the sex scenes, but I’m not at that point yet. 

Next Week Looks Like This:

Upcoming BLs for 2024 are listed here. This list is not kept updated, so please leave a comment if you know something new or RP with additions.

Still Coming:

10/27 Perfect 10 Liners (Thai Sun YouTube?) 24 eps! - New directing yet another university BL with engineers + their mentees. Based on a Jittirain novel. with a massive cast and massive run time. We will be watching this until APRIL of 2025!

ForceBook playing the same old characters = enemies to lovers tsunder/sunshine jock/nerd thing.

PerthChimonSanta are doing the cohabitation cool guy/dork trope.

JuniorMark are doing popular sunshine meets lonely sad boy (the only interesting pair IMHO).

I think Blue Canvas of Youthful Days has started on iQIYI but I only get it on Viki and that doesn't drop for a few days, plus...... CBL......? Not sure I'll report on this one unless it's really good.

THIS WEEK’S BEST MOMENTS

From Uncle Unknown which is truly terrible but this was so SO funny. I'm still chuckling when I think about it.

The first representation of shipping in a BL that I actually enjoyed. Also Dat's clear approval of being shipped didn't hurt. (Judge)

(lask week)

The tag BLigade: @doorajar @solitaryandwandering @my-rose-tinted-glasses @babymbbatinygirl @babymbbatinygirl @isisanna-blog @mmastertheone @pickletrip @aliceisathome @urikawa-miyuki @tokillamonger @sunflower-positiiivity @rocketturtle4 @blglplus @anythinggoesintheshire @everlightly @renafire @mestizashinrin @bl-bam-beyond @small-dark-and-delicious @saezurumurmurs

Sigh, Tumblr in its infinite wisdom doesn't like too many at-ings.

[ppeonppeonhan]

Top 10 2023 BL Kisses

If you've seen at least a couple BLs you know that some of these actors are either uncomfortable kissing another man or just didn't get enough practice kissing literally anyone. So when they get it right and genuinely seem to be enjoying themselves, it is worth noting. Soooo grab a pen and paper, and take some notes:

You Are Mine: This Taiwanese drama was problematique with the unbalanced workplace power dynamics, but this sweet upside down kiss was worth the wait.

Dangerous Romance: This may not have been their first kiss, but it felt like the most romantic. By this point, they'd shared many scenes filled with awkward sexual tension, but this one didn't have an ounce of humor, and Kanghan and Sailom just melted into each other's arms.

Kiseki: Dear to Me: The lighting for this kiss really emphasized their till-death-do-us-part themed dialogue where they vowed to die seconds apart.

Stay By My Side: Lackluster supernatural subplot aside, this Taiwanese drama delivered the most adorable kiss as the main lead was too nervous to give in to his desires without closing his eyes.

Be My Favorite: It took Kawi a frustratingly long time to pull his head out of his ass and realize he would be lucky to have Pisaeng even as a friend let alone a boyfriend. Thank goodness for Pisaeng's patience, cause ours was wearing thin.

Love Class 2: Very happy Ma Ru realized he had feelings for his bestie and wasted no time making that clear with an epic kiss that I have probably rewatched a dozen times.

Only Friends: Honestly, all of their kisses were incredible, because both of these actors went from supporting characters to lead roles, and did not skip a beat. There was no awkward beginner's kiss phase. Those intimacy workshops must've been lit.

Step by Step: Their kiss chemistry was on point, but the car scenes were the most memorable for how very possible they would've been caught in the act in the parking garage of their place of employment. Caution meet wind.

Wedding Plan: These two were about five seconds away from making a baby in that car, and if this were the omegaverse, they probably would've.

Hidden Agenda: There was hunger in that kiss on both sides, and it took every ounce of strength in Zo to shove Joke out the door once he made his intention clear.

[theside-b]

What more can I say about this show? I’d previously compared the rhythm of First Note of Love with the likes of Unknown and The On1y One, but the more appropriate and direct comparison is with the underrated About Youth. From the music-driven plot, soft approach and wholly interesting characters, both shows have in common this trait of not dwelling into complex or difficult subjects, often choosing the lighter path guided by the romance.

The main difference between them comes in the cast. From all shows of the season, First Note of Love was the biggest target on my radar, the reason: Charles and Michael. Absolute fan-favorite and scene stealer from HIStory: Close to You, and the adorable prodigal son in My Tooth Your Love teaming up with now the focus square on them and joined by two other seasoned actors in Tim Liu and Jame Kasama. Taiwanese actors don’t sit in the same table with their neighbors, and while Charles and Michael are not bringing a bed to their fan meetings or sparking rumors of real-life dating, they really embraced the image of an adorable lovingly couple, going on cute dates and being cheesy (and overly romantic) with each other off-screen, meanwhile Tim and Jame have this very unique international connection with the two even scoring a side episode dedicated to them, and unlike other projects that feature international pairings this show explored and addressed head-on the linguistic barriers.

On the show, one of the biggest pitfalls was deftly avoided: Neil and Sea are on equal footing. Which was quite impressive of them to pull off, because not only they had the age gap between them but we start the series with Xiao Hai being Neil’s biggest fan, so from the get-go they were on uneven ground, but as the show progressed, we had two things happening at once: Xiao Hai realizing that Neil is much more than what and who he idolized and Neil himself becoming a fan (and falling head over heels for Sea). When we reach the midpoint is pretty clear that Xiao Hai has Neil’s heart, and not only that but Neil is also a fan of him, from Sea’s own music to his personality, they adore each other completely, flaws and all. And is actually a nice change of pace seeing a couple who is free to just fall in love without any unnecessary drama happening.

There isn’t a “bride”, or an ex-looking for a second chance, battle of classes, gangsters trying to ruin their lives, an overly dramatic break-up, circumstances that pull them apart, nothing like that at all happens here. Their biggest obstacle is actually themselves, they are so into each other that it becomes a problem, until it isn’t and the romance takes off beautifully. It’s like seeing one of the healthiest relationships unfold right in front of your eyes, a novelty really.

Next to them there is Reese and Orca in one of the most interesting dynamics seen in recent BL dramas. There is history here, but we are not allowed to witness, something did happen, something important and special to both of them. Orca left; Reese let him go. And then he is back, with no intention of leaving again empty-handed, if his going back to Thailand he is going to make sure he has Reese’s heart with him.

Orca joins a very fun trend of the class of’24: the “I have feelings and I going to make them your problem too!” archetype. Invading Reese’s house (which is debatable since he knew the door code), cooking him delicious meals, serenating his paramour, making Reese a hostage at his own home by taking long and luxurious showers and prowling the apartment naked, Orca didn’t let that man breathe for one second. It didn’t hurt them that their first interaction was Orca literally throwing himself at Reese and we along with him finding out that the Taiwanese learned thai just so they could talk — they confessing their love in each other’s mother language was such a sweet touch.

Much like the main couple there was plenty of openings for some juicy drama here (their first kiss happens at a funeral for crying out loud) but the show again choses the lighter route, from Orca hijinks, to Reese’s obvious crush and the cute MosBank cameos (we need a spin-off showing what kind of beef they have with Orca), the only thing stopping them is themselves, Reese actually says that.

That all might seem silly or uneventful, but is refreshing seeing grown-ups acting like grow-ups. Is not a show with wild storylines or bombastic turning points and sudden revelations. They are telling the stories of two couples that simply like each other and want to be together. It’s about them working around their own issues to be good for one another. It’s the reason why, unlike other Taiwanese shows, I firmly believe they are perfect for a stress-free binge watch.

The one major downside is the run-time, from episode one to the finale, it always feels like something good was left off the table due time constraint. The lack of Reese and Orca in the final episode felt criminal (they have a special episode focused on them in Thailand by the way, but is mostly a cute little thing starring Tim and Jame). The episodes clock around the 22/24-minute mark, and that leads me to believe that First Note of Love might have been conceived as a movie that got turned into a series later on, it’s probably the one series that I can clearly see how they would adapt into a feature film with ease.

As I said, there are subtle hints of very dark subjects lurking within the characters. Xiao Hai for example, we see that he grew up all alone, abandoned really, and there is a tense moment his mother reaches out to him, and he avoids her wanting nothing to with her or his family, later he states to Neil that thanks to his love he doesn’t feel alone anymore — the implications are there, but you have to be able to catch them and read as you see fit, the show never makes them all that clear, they could’ve explored more but they chose not to, maybe if they had more time they could have.

I also need to point it out: it’s the best (no question or room for debate) musical BL. All the songs were very good, and you can see they went all out to get them right, the lyrics always reflecting what we were dealing with in the episodes. Charles already had two tracks from HIStory under his belt, and Michael and Jame got training from professional musicians and instructors in how to perform in front of the cameras. This dedication led to some amazing moments and the most believable on-screen musicians in the genre. It also never felt like a full-on musical, but as if we were indeed watching professional stage performances. (Warner Music Taiwan was responsible for the soundtrack and having actual artists like Taiyo [who plays Matt] and Ben Wu providing them songs was a great call).

Another strong asset in the show was the location. The first major TW-BL drama not situated in Taipei, the port city of Kaohsiung served as this near-futuristic backdrop with stylish architecture and romantic scenery — the city is actually Taiwan’s new capital of music with labels HQs and musical festivals, that’s why the show takes place there, and it was refreshing seeing them in a location not all-that explored.

I cannot advocate for this show enough, so is a must-see recommendation from me.

[thisonelikesaliens]

this is why i love taiwanese BL especially when their OST really hits. i caught some snippets of the new OST they played at the beginning of episode 7 when Qian is just going through the motions of life without Yuan:

我沒有很想你 只是一早醒來第一個想到你 I don't miss you that much, I just think of you as soon as I wake up 我沒有很想你 只是偶爾會翻閱你的短訊 I don't miss you that much, I just read through your messages sometimes 我沒有很想你 只是把自己關在角落裡 I don't miss you that much, I just shut myself in the corner 逃避 逃避 逃避 隨便你 Avoid, evade, escape, just do what you want

我沒有很想你 只是在夜裡睡不著翻來覆去 I don't miss you that much, I just can't fall asleep some nights 我沒有很想你 只是偶爾會打聽你的消息 I don't miss you that much, I just try to find news about you sometimes 我沒有很想你 只是偶爾會播放你愛看的���影 I don't miss you that much, I just play the movie you like sometimes 我真的沒有想你 I really don't miss you

我沒有很想你 我沒有很想你 I don't miss you that much, I really don't miss you that much 我只是愛你勝過愛自己 I just love you more than I love myself 我沒有很想你 I don't miss you that much 只是偶爾想抱緊你 I just want to hold you tight sometimes 我真的沒有想你 I really don't miss you

[waitmyturtles]

Unknown: The Final Episodes (Episodes 10, 11, and 12)

(*CAVEAT!!!!* I wrote this screed before the producers of Unknown cut a different version of episode 11. I have only watched the first version, the version that the Taiwanese BL gods had originally intended us to watch, hmph. My commentary below only reflects my thoughts on this first version. I'm gonna allow myself to be old and crabby and say, "BAH! We didn't revise episodes back in *mah* day!" to excuse myself from watching it and I'm an old mom, I have no fuckin' time to watch a revise, so so sorry fam lmaooo ok byeeeee)

So -- I'll repeat what I think a lot of us have thought about the final arcs of Unknown, and where I could have used more of the delicate, thoughtful exploration about family roles and boundaries that the first nine episodes of this show displayed. These are the elements that drew me to the show, as well as Yuan's general spiciness and empathic intelligence towards Qian.

Anyone who reads around here knows that themes that I'm driven by include Asian intergenerational trauma and Asian family systems and dynamics. This show (here, here, and my tag) -- oh lordo, this show tackled expected, internalized, and externalized roles and responsibilities within families head-the-fuck-on, at least for the first nine episodes.

Let me state the obvious first: this show veered off the highway a bit too early to demonstrate that, WOW, Qian really is the

HORNIEST MAN ALIVE, WOW, EVER --

(dang dude, you really needed to get down EARLIER and MORE OFTEN, because that IN-OFFICE AFTERGLOW, MY MAN, like, listen, I'm down for the post-nut vibes! all support and celebration and respect, but also, we need to delegate these tasks, we're on the clock, you are a co-owner of this company, back to work! chop-chop)

and MAN, could I have used a quick wave of a flag or hand that his deficit for love, care, and tenderness would hit at THAT SPECIFIC angle (HEH HEH) so very quickly and VERY INTENSELY at the start of episode 11. That took me out. I had to just scream at @lurkingshan. I watched that episode IN PUBLIC, PEOPLE!

We were missing some steps there. It was a FABULOUS actual love scene. But I could have used more of

1) Yuan contemplating the reality of what was going to go down BEFORE that scene began, and

2) To see Qian enter that moment as well. Instead, we hit the sheets, and had to process that very intense scene WITH flashbacks, which, whew, was a whole thing, all while I was just kinda literally screaming.

Those flashbacks were supposed to tell me that Qian had come to terms with Yuan's lifelong longing, but the down-dirty confirmed that for me before I was ready to get to the same mindset that Qian had started that scene with. The very important timing and pacing of the emotional exploration and reveals that we had been presented with in the previous episodes was jettisoned for the booty.

So, yeah. That was out of order.

What I also missed in these episodes was, as I stated earlier, the previous and very intentional exploration of family roles and boundaries that this show was playing with prior to the last three episodes.

With this emotional line concluding in episode 10, Qian showed us consistently that his struggle with negotiating his older-brother-and-fatherly responsibilities was his biggest burden, alongside the lifelong processing of the abuse he had received at the hands of his mother, and his further processing of her death.

Qian and Yuan get together in episode 11, literally go out on a date, and Qian woos Yuan.

Qian's continued resistance to being open about his health to Yuan is extremely reminiscent of a parent (I think of Asian parents, but I think this is common to global parenthood) hiding a health status from a child. This part of the story was still an important one. Qian was STILL holding onto his understanding of his responsibilities to Yuan and Lili as a parent/older sibling figure. If he didn't get out of that surgery in perfect condition, he worried about their futures -- regardless of the facts that Yuan was self-sufficient, and Lili was both self-sufficient and supported by a loving partner. Because that's how so many parents are: no matter the stability of their children, parents will see children as their children.

What I liked about this storyline, and what I could have used a bit more of (ideally in an extra episode) WAS HOW YUAN'S FAMILY ROLE CHANGES AUTOMATICALLY BY BECOMING QIAN'S PARTNER.

Lili calls Yuan a "sister-in-law," but he also becomes a

brother-in-law, AND a stepdad, AND THEN ALSO BECOMES A VERY NOT TECHNICAL GRANDPA, ALONG WITH GRANDPA/UNCLE/OLDER BROTHER QIAN

AND, AND!

We see Yuan THEN CARING FOR QIAN as the younger brother he's always been, AND

AS QIAN'S PARTNER

which they're calling wife or sister-in-law in the show, which, bleh to gendered terms, but

THEY WERE GOING THERE WITH YUAN

but we didn't get enough of it.

THAT IS A HUGE CHANGE FOR YUAN.

HE IS EQUAL NOW!

We just didn't get enough exploration there. Because the show was centering Qian's narrative (which I don't blame the show for at all), and mans was in his post-boop vibe the whole time, that we didn't sit enough with the changing of these roles FOR THESE TWO MEN, and while Lili hinted at it, I would have liked just a few more minutes at the macro-high level to explore what this meant for this entire, wonderful family unit. This is just huge Asian family dynamics stuff regarding who has power, and how that impacts how Qian interacts with Yuan, how Qian has to internally process the growth of his "child," as it were, to be LITERALLY EQUAL to him as his partner; and also for Lili to contemplate as she regards Yuan now as someone partnered with her caretaker. Yuan now would kind of step into that role, as well. THAT'S HUGE for dynamics changing and rebuilding.

Let's also remember that San Peng transcends these boundaries, too, but it's a bit easier for him, because he hasn't lived in that house. But he's the family's benefactor, in a way, which both Yuan and Lili acknowledge. And his turning into a partner into the family is also a significant boundary-crossing.

Finally, Qian's concern for Lili. Yes, he was concerned for her career. He didn't want Lili to turn out like his mom.

I would have liked to have proof in that concern, literally. I say this as a mom.

Qian was missing something big. Lili's baby was going to be born into a nice big family unit that Qian was the creator and anchor of.

At least they had Qian and Yuan sitting on baby toys to end the series. Lili, truly, had nothing to worry about. The gay uncle-grandpas were going to be there to help raise the baby, because as an Asian viewer, I am going to assume the extended family's participation

(NOT ASSISTANCE! ACTIVE PARTICIPATION!)

in the raising of that child.

I'm not sure why Qian missed that, except for the very real reason of familial PTSD and intergenerational trauma from his mother. But San Peng was right there as Lili's partner and as the actual dad. And Qian was valid to have a concern. But that could have been a moment where Yuan, also, as a new equal "elder" of this newly readjusted family, could have reassured everyone that this baby was going to be born in a wonderful, close-knit, loving extended family.

These readjusted roles were not fully named and explored. If I were Lili, I know I'd be having that baby in the good hands of all of the men around me that would help me raise the kiddo in a happy and supportive environment.

One more point about the baby. We need more babies in BLs. We need to show men becoming fathers, people becoming parents. This is a right that all people have. We need more of it to emphasize that all people are deserving of the families that they want to create -- and truly, it was so BEAUTIFULLY SYMBOLIC that Qian would be such a good caretaker as to be blessed with further generations, because he literally cared so well for Yuan and Lili that they could bless him back with growing the family he tended to. We just didn't get enough sitting with that.

Finally! TF was up with that office vibe in the end. The tops, the bottoms, the public kissing. That we got that instead of the role explorations -- k, but the tone of all that was a little off, if it was meant to be comedic. And yes, I definitely took away that I was meant to ship Dr. Lin and Le Ge. I have NO IDEA why they were talking otherwise. Doc and Don are meant to, ya know, YA KNOW? Right? Ummm, lol.

All of this together is enough to put a touch of a damper on my memories of this show. I didn't end with a high.

But I ABSOLUTELY LOVED what this show accomplished through the first 10 episodes. All these complicated, delicious boundaries and roles and responsibilities being explored! It's a joy, as an Asian, to watch this being explored in a queer Asian show.

We ended on some tropey bumps, but I'm going to remember this show overall with fondness, and I'm ultimately very happy that this was my first Taiwanese BL. I can't wait to catch up in this space more in due time.

[lurkingshan]

Unknown Episode 12

This the end beautiful friends. And I wouldn't say the show is going out with a whimper, exactly, but it's certainly not with a bang. This will remain one of my all time favorite Taiwanese dramas, but I will definitely be remembering it as being so so excellent for 10 exquisite episodes that built to such a beautiful peak and then inexplicably blew it on the dismount.

We already talked about episode 11 and the sex scene blunder, as well as some of the other missed beats there. Episode 12 moved on from the immediate aftermath of Yuan and Qian getting together to give us a sense of what their lives will look like now that they are together. One thing I definitely appreciated is that they aren't hiding this from anyone--they are taking the no shame approach to the change in their relationship, and I love that. I don't know that I entirely bought how brazen they were being, though. Making out in the open office space where Qian's employees could see seemed a bit much even if they weren't brothers, and given that the show didn't portray any awkwardness or any of Qian's expected discomfort with this big shift in their relationship, it came across a little silly and dismissive of how serious a change this should be for them. I would have really enjoyed Yuan threatening Qian with kisses if it had been a more private moment. And I deeply hated the top/bottom discussion amongst the fujoshi coworkers, that was just in poor taste and out of step with the tone of the show (can we just ban bls from doing scenes like this already?).

This final episode also failed to meaningfully resolve Qian's health issue in favor of introducing a new plot: Lili's accidental pregnancy. I have mixed feelings about this development. On the one hand, it helps to reinforce a theme of this family's resilience and ensures they will have a family legacy, and it led to hands down my favorite scene in the episode, which was the family discussion where they were moving between the bedrooms as Qian learned of the pregnancy, promised not to attack San Pang, and then immediately attacked San Pang when he stopped hiding. That was comedy gold and the cast was so excellent in every beat of it. On the other hand, I don't love this plot direction for Lili and I don't think the show really did anything to reckon with what a monumental wrench it will throw into her life plans (note that this is another departure from the book, where Lili ends the story a successful jet setting model who is still single and living her ideal life traveling for work). Lili wants a career in fashion modeling and entertainment; how exactly does having a child at age 23 fit with those goals? The show didn't even bother to consider her future in the way this story was framed. I would have preferred a time skip to do this plot at a more appropriate time for her; as it was this just felt a little careless.

In the end I am glad we got to see the family accept each other's relationships and Qian and Yuan settling into living alone together in the home they love, but I do wish the final two episodes had lived up to the promise of the rest. It felt like the first 10 episodes built so beautifully to a monumental relationship change, and then the show just kinda shrugged their way through the actual change in favor of random new plots and a list of ill-fitting Taiwanese bl tropes. After everything they went through, all tension evaporated instantly, no one was uncomfortable with the relationship becoming romantic, and there was no real nuance in the family discussion about it. They simply didn’t finish the story they started and given they had such strong material to work with from the novel, I will never understand why.

That said, even with a lackluster ending I will always be grateful that we got this gem of a show. Despite its flaws, this story contains some of my all-time favorite characters and relationships. Hats off to the cast and crew for delivering one of my favorite dramas of the year. And I want to also thank the folks on here who made discussion of this show every week so fun. We are a tiny little fandom but the love and devotion to this show was so lovely, and I am extra grateful to those who stuck to the weekly pact for the final episodes so we could keep posting and talking about this story for a couple more weeks. I hope we find another show to love together very soon!

[the-conversation-pod]

Going High-Low with Taiwan

And we're back! It’s been awhile since we checked in on Taiwan, and the latest offerings have really run the gamut in terms of quality. Ben, NiNi, and Shan sat down to discuss the state of Taiwanese BL via two recent shows, Anti Reset and Unknown.

Timestamps

The timestamps will now correspond with chapters on Spotify for easier navigation.

00:00:00 - Welcome 00:01:15 - Intro 00:02:11 - Anti Reset and VBL 00:13:13 - Unknown the Series 00:20:16 Unknown: The Pseudo Incest Trope 00:27:53 Unknown: San Pang, Li Li, and Family in the Narrative 00:35:48 Unknown: The Ending Stumble 00:43:32 Unknown: Adapting the Da Ge Novel 00:46:15 Unknown: Final Thoughts and Ratings 00:51:53 - Whither Taiwanese BL?

The Conversation Transcripts!

Thanks to the continued efforts of @ginnymoonbeam as transcriber, and @lurkingshan as an editor and proofreader, we are able to bring you transcripts of the episodes.

We will endeavor to make the transcripts available when the episodes launch, and it is our goal to make them available for past episodes (Coming soon thanks to @wen-kexing-apologist). When transcripts are available, we will attach them to the episode post (like this one) and put the transcript behind a Read More cut to cut down on scrolling.

Please send our volunteers your thanks!

00:00:00 - Welcome

NiNi

Welcome to The Conversation About BL, aka The Brown Liquor Podcast.

Ben

And there it is. I’m Ben.

NiNi

I’m NiNi.

Ben

And we’re you’re drunk Caribbean uncle and auntie here sitting on the porch in the rocking chairs.

NiNi

Four times a year we pop in to talk about what’s going on in the BL world.

Ben

We shoot the shit about stories and all the drama going into them. I review from a queer media lens.

NiNi

And I review from a romance and drama lens.

Ben

So if you like cracked-out takes and really intense emotional analysis…

NiNi

If you like talking about artistry, industry, and the discourse…

Ben

And if you generally just love simping…

NiNi

There is a lot of simping on this podcast…

Ben

We are the show for you!

00:01:15 - Intro

Ben 

And we're back! This week we will be discussing the state of Taiwanese BL by highlighting two projects that recently finished for us. 

NiNi 

Shan is here with us. Say hi, Shan. 

Shan 

Hello people! 

NiNi 

Shan has to be here because y'all know I don't watch that much Taiwanese BL. [laughs]

Shan 

And I watch it all. 

Ben 

We're going to be talking about the sci-fi BL Anti Reset and we're going to be talking about the Priest adaptation Unknown the series, based on Priest’s novel Da Ge. 

NiNi 

I am unfamiliar with Anti Reset. I did not watch it. 

Ben 

NiNi: it's a Taiwanese BL. I don't like it! [Shan laughs] I didn't watch it. 

NiNi 

I did watch Unknown and I have thoughts about that. 

00:02:11 - Anti Reset and VBL

NiNi 

Maybe Shan, you could dig in here before we let Ben get into the recap on Anti Reset. 

Shan 

Anti Reset is part of a recent series of Taiwanese BLs that came from a company called VBL. Stay By My Side, You Are Mine, VIP Only, and then Anti Reset. This was a connected series, all these stories happened in the same universe. The characters did cameos in each other's shows and they all aired in the same time slot one right after the other, over the last several months. 

I was not particularly impressed with the quality of these shows and I thought that as the series went on, each show got a little bit worse. [laughs] By the time I was in VIP Only I had really lost interest in what these shows were doing. The stories were weak, the production values were low, they weren't really hitting the usual Taiwanese high watermarks for great casting, good couple chemistry, solid intimacy scenes… The things you can normally reliably count on Taiwan for, were not really showing up in these shows. 

So I was, had kind of already lost my faith in this series when Anti Reset started. I think I got two episodes into it and I just decided to just stop watching. It was givin’ me a weird vibe. I was like, “You know what? I don't know what this show is doing and I don't think I wanna find out.” 

That's where I think I should hand it off to Ben to talk more about what the show actually ended up doing.

Ben 

Oh, man. Trying to describe the premise of this show inherently gives it more credit than it deserves. [Shan and Ben laugh] The premise of the show is that Chu Yi Ping is some sort of humanities professor at a local college. His arm gets injured from pulling his shoulder and his uncle, who runs a experimental tech company, decides that to give him some assistance while he's recovering, they're going to send an experimental house assistant android to his house, which appears in the shape of a really hot guy named Ever 9. 

The show wants to go on to be this exploration about how misanthropy presents in people. How do you find humanity in artificial intelligences that are designed to befriend us? It wants to do this exploration of personhood—I don't think it does—and ends up fundamentally becoming a mail-order bride show that doesn't realize it is one. This show thinks it's doing deep analysis of AI personhood and romance, but it's not. It's just presenting things. It is kind of a mess and I ended up really not liking it. 

NiNi 

I'm a big sci-fi girl. I like these kinds of explorations of the human condition. It's what all the best sci-fi is about. So, basically what you're telling me is don't watch the show. [laughs]

Shan 

Ben, I feel like when I was observing discourse about this show, it did seem like it was working for some people, and I'm curious if you have thoughts about what parts of the show maybe did work better than others. 

Ben 

I think that if you found the leads attractive and you enjoyed the chemistry that the leads were going for—ignoring literally any of the context about what was going on around their interactions—you could enjoy that. But I don't think the show does a great job of addressing its own context. 

You've got this android living in your house who is doing your house chores and making your food for you, and otherwise taking care of you. So you basically have purchased a housewife. But then he decides he's in love with the housewife and wants to pursue the concept that the android has a personality and is capable of reciprocating his feelings and such. But they don't do a good job creating this crossover point where Ever 9 cares about Chu Yi Ping because of who Ever 9 is and not because of what Ever 9 was programmed to be. 

The issue, too, with Chu Yi Ping is he's got this fundamental misanthropy that isn't really addressed or challenged. What is it about Ever 9 that allows him to not hate him the way he hates other people? The fact that Ever 9 is programmed to put up with all of his shit all the time? That's kinda weird, particularly because they went for a multi-year separation at the end, and I'm like, he didn't grow from this. He's just a sad little weirdo the whole time. 

Shan 

They did a multi-year separation between… a man and a robot? 

Ben 

They did. 

NiNi 

I was about to say— [all laugh]

Shan

I mean! I’m like, what? But, like—, Did—, How—, But—, I—

NiNi

Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. I have another related question. 

Ben 

Please, go on. [Ben and Shan laugh]

NiNi 

This is not a story about an AI achieving self-awareness or sentience or crossing the human-digital divide in some way. 

Ben 

It wants to be that. It really wants to be a story about Ever 9 exceeding his programming. They very much think there's, like, a Pinocchio thing going on with him. 

Shan 

He's still a robot. 

NiNi 

Even Pinocchio turned into a real boy at the end. 

Shan

Right, this is what I don't understand. 

NiNi 

So what is the point, then? If nothing actually changes about Ever 9. 

Ben 

This is one of the fundamental questions I've been asking about BL lately. [all laugh] And here we are again. 

Shan 

What is the point? [laughs]

NiNi 

This is the thing that people don't get about sci-fi a lot. Sci-fi is more philosophy than science. It's a lot more about humanity and the things that humanity does to each other and how humanity evolves than it is about the cool things that the science can do. And whenever I see sci-fi that does not understand that, you can tell. 

Shan 

I think—and I wonder how you feel about this, Ben—one of the tension points here may be trying to take a narrative like this and turn it into a straightforward romance between a person and an object. When I've seen stories with this conceit done well, the romance is maybe not the primary point, and it's more about, like NiNi is saying, the philosophical questions underpinning it. I think about something like Lars and the Real Girl, which is more about the nature of loneliness and the nature of grief and how a community can come together to support somebody in finding a way to be happy. But it's not about the actual romance between the person and the thing. It feels like maybe what's difficult here is they want to examine those things, but at the same time they just want this to be a standard BL where they're just executing romance tropes. Those things don't go together that well. 

Ben 

I agree. I feel like Chu Yi Ping’s misanthropy and disconnectedness from other people should have been the crux of the storytelling, and they were more focused on making the android say hyung and oppa instead. 

NiNi 

For me, if you're gonna do a robot story like this, maybe you actually put somebody else into the story who the main character then falls in love with. The main character is able to interact with the robot to actually, themselves, become a real boy. But somebody in the story has to become a real boy! [laughs] That's the whole—you know what I mean?

Shan 

There's a kdrama that I really love called I'm Not a Robot. And that is pretty much how they handled that. There's a robot, there's a real girl. And in the end, the romance is with the real girl, not the robot. [laughs] 

It just feels like they tried to do that sort of story, but also somehow make the robot the main person without having them actually achieve personhood, and that just doesn't really work. 

NiNi 

It's either that or take it dystopian. Take it in the opposite direction. But then I guess that's not a BL. 

Shan 

Right. So you can also take it in the real fucked up direction, but yeah, you have to commit and it sounds like they just tried to do it all in some kind of weird blend that didn't come together. 

NiNi 

So, I'm guessing this one's a chop, Ben. 

Ben 

Oh, it's 100% a chop. I think I ended up giving it a 5? This is a show that I do not recommend at all. If you just want to see pretty decently attractive Taiwanese actors kind of moon at each other a little bit and make out a little bit, by all means! Go in and have a great time. But that's what you're getting out of it, at most. It's not good sci-fi, and I don't like it. At all. 

Shan 

I'm feeling happy with my choices. I'm gonna not return and finish this one. I think I'm gonna let it lie. It sounds like it was the right choice to not finish it for me. 

Ben 

What did we get out of the VBL project? My only positive takeaway from it is, I'm really glad that they got some money together to continue making small budget Taiwanese BL. I don't want small budget Taiwanese BL to give up, but also, these were not the best offerings that we've gotten out of that. 

Shan 

They need some better scripts. 

Ben 

We gotta do better. I really did not want to be super harsh about VBL and a bunch of their projects but, they're kind of really frustrating in a lot of ways. Stay By My Side ends abruptly. You Are Mine does not do the boss-employee romance any real justice. VIP Only ended up being kinda boring and wasn't really satisfying in its conclusion. And this one just really did not understand the expectations of sci-fi storytelling.

When we looked at the descriptions of all these shows ahead of time, we were like, there's a lot of ways that they could fuck this up royally, but these would actually be pretty good, or at least interesting and compelling in some ways. But they weren't. There's some sort epilogue episode or some shit they're gonna be releasing?

Shan 

A little special to try to sell merch, I think. 

NiNi 

I mean, you gotta do what you gotta do. 

Shan

Yeaaaaah. 

Ben 

Not impressed, and we are moving on. 

NiNi 

You're not even gonna rate it? 

Ben 

Oh, I gave it a 5. 

NiNi 

5 for Anti Reset from The Conversation. 

Ben 

And the 5 is, the leads were actually pretty solid with each other. 

NiNi 

Wow, that is damning with the faintest of praise. 

[all laugh]

Ben 

It's not good, y’all. 

00:13:13 - Unknown the Series

NiNi

Let's leave that behind and move on to something that all of us actually watched and I think liked a little bit more. Moving on to Unknown the series. 

Ben, give us the rundown, what is Unknown the series about?

Ben

Unknown is a found family narrative that has to deal with the way these relationships change as people grow up. This brother and sister end up deciding to adopt a homeless kid who's in their neighborhood. Wei Qian is like a high schooler trying to take care of his little sister ‘cause their parents are dead, and they decide to also take care of this kid, Xiao Yuan. Xiao Yuan is appreciative of this and is glad to become a brother to this family. But as he grows and matures, he ends up developing deep affection for Wei Qian, and we spend the bulk of the story dealing with Xiao Yuan struggling with his feelings for Wei Qian, and how this impacts the community around them. 

Beyond the three siblings, we have their neighbor San Pang, whose family has opted to never raise the rent on the Wei siblings to make sure that they have a place to stay. Wei Qian spends much of his adolescence when he's not in school working for the local gang: complications ensue as a result of this. 

Shan, further thoughts?

Shan

Really, at its heart, this is a relationship change narrative. So, it's all about how this family decide to take each other as family and then as they grow up, some of the relationships start to shift and change, not only between Wei Qian and Wei Yuan, but also between Wei Li Li and San Pang. Wei Qian really takes his responsibilities as the older brother—but also the default patriarch of this family—very seriously. He is a caretaker, he is the person providing financially for the family. San Pang is his best friend, someone who's known him his whole life, who completely understands his devotion to his siblings and also loves them, as well, as an older brother figure. 

There are some other characters in the mix. Qian and San Pang end up going into business with a third partner, named Lao Xiong. There's also the local gang—the lead gangster is called Le—and then there's Doctor Lin, played by our beloved Sam Lin, who's also in the mix as a side character who comes in and out of the story. 

I don't know, NiNi, if you wanted to add anything about your overall impressions of what the story is tackling, the themes.

NiNi

I came into this one later than you guys did, so I was catching up on kind of a binge. And also the rhythms of Taiwanese BL and Taiwanese drama are a little harder for me, so it takes me a while to get into things emotionally. So I was doing a little bit of an uphill climb? I understood where the story was going and what they were trying to do. I didn't all the way feel it? There were points that I would hit, definitely a point at the end or near the end that I felt it, but going through the pockets of the story as it was happening, I didn't get the depth of feeling about this that I would get about a story. That's not necessarily to do with it being a Taiwanese story, ‘cause there's Taiwanese stories that I have that depth of feeling about. Just this one didn't hit me in the exact same way that I think it hit you guys.

Shan

I felt this story deeply. I was very emotionally connected to the characters, very, very invested in this story and really did love it. I have, unfortunately, some serious critiques [laughs] for the way that the story ended up, but really loved it along the way, was super invested. And part of that might come from my relative comfort with the tropes that were at play.

NiNi

It might be, because I'm an eldest sibling and I understand the feelings of responsibility and wanting to be somebody who takes care of your siblings and an example for them and to be strong for them and all of that. If there is any character that I really glommed onto, it was Wei Qian. But then what that left me with was a disconnect from some of his thought processes and actions later down in the story? There were things that I wanted to understand more that I didn't understand about the way that he was processing certain things. That's my thing. That's not a problem with the story, I think that's my reaction to the story.

Ben

I think in the early parts of the story I was really with everything that it was doing. I got Wei Qian’s whole deal fairly quickly. He's, like, 13 to 15 and his mom is dead. His dad is dead or not in the picture. And he's got a little sister that he has to take care of. And the neighbors are willing to help accommodate this but he's gotta get money some sort of way, so he ends up wrapped up with the local gang. I also got the way they would feel sympathy for another kid who's on the street struggling as well. I totally get them adopting someone else who seems like he's going through some shit the way they are too. 

I got the way Yuan’s thankfulness about being saved from the street and the way Wei Qian was willing to sacrifice himself for Yuan, and I totally get that turning into a kind of devotion that shifts over time, and mingles with his latent queerness. I was able to follow Yuan down that route. And I liked the way the show treated all of those developments really seriously. From Wei Qian having some sort of sexual related trauma and being really resistant to advances from women… And I also got the way that that sort of blew up in their faces when Yuan's feelings became known to them. 

I really enjoyed the early parts of the story. I think Ray Jiang directed this? Ray’s tendency to use longer shots of characters working in the space together worked really well for me here, and the actors had really good timing for me to get a strong sense of the dynamics between their characters. So I was really able to pull a lot of the expected emotional beats out of a lot of little things in this show early on.

00:20:16 Unknown: The Pseudo Incest Trope

Ben

I actually waited until like week six, I think, Shan, was when you told me it was time to start watching? I have deep qualms with the stepbrothers trope. I don't usually connect to it or enjoy it.

NiNi

I don't have an issue with the stepbrothers trope, but this didn't feel like stepbrothers to me. The relationship between Wei Qian and Yuan felt almost paternalistic, and that was, I think, deliberately something that Wei Qian did put that distance between them. I did not see how Wei Qian overcame that, he did it so deliberately and he reinforced it so deliberately over and over throughout the years, and I feel like the turn into romance didn't quite work for me?

Ben

Why do you think the stepbrothers taboo doesn't normally bother you the way it might for other people?

NiNi

It depends on how long they've been raised together. A lot of times when we're getting these stepbrothers trope stories, they're new stepbrothers or they haven't been stepbrothers for very long, or they were close to adults when their parents got together. And so it's… doesn't feel like a sibling relationship to me.

Ben

Shan, you've watched a lot of dramas.

Shan

Sure have.

Ben

What's your read of the stepbrother stuff?

Shan

I wanted to talk about accurate categorization here, because this is not actually a stepbrothers trope. The stepbrothers trope is very popular in yaoi manga, and consequently in BL. But Unknown is more, I think, accurately categorized as a pseudo incest story. And that goes beyond BL. That is actually quite popular [laughs] in Asian dramas more broadly, and also shows up quite a lot in het romance. And it's more about people who are coming together in some kind of family arrangement, and then the point of the trope is that the relationship changes over time and we follow that relationship change. 

There's this impression, I think, that people like it mostly because, “Ooh, it's so titillating. It's so taboo.” For folks who enjoy the pseudo incest trope—and I count myself one of them, I've watched a lot of these kinds of dramas—the appeal of it is that a relationship change narrative is really interesting. It's a lot of deep emotional stuff when you are talking about someone who's really important to you in one specific way, and then trying to transform that relationship to have them be important to you in a different way. That can feel really risky and really dangerous, to put at threat the relationship that you already have for the relationship that you now want. That is not a dynamic that is exclusive to the pseudo incest trope!

NiNi

It feels like an extension of friends to lovers.

Shan

Exactly.

NiNi

A higher risk, higher degree of difficulty friends to lovers.

Shan

Exactly right, NiNi. I also love the friend to lovers trope. I also like enemies to lovers, which is maybe not as deep, but still revolves around that relationship change. I think for a lot of people, that's the appeal. It's a higher stakes version of the friends to lovers trope. 

I think Unknown did a fantastic job with this trope… for the first three quarters of its story. Unfortunately, where it fell down was in the most important part, which is that relationship turn. We followed Yuan through his relationship turn. We saw his feelings for Qian change over time. We saw him try his best to cope with them alone. We saw when he could no longer do that and the feelings poured out of him and that caused a huge rupture. We saw him take time away. We saw his devotion stay strong through a separation and through many years apart. We saw him come back as an adult and decide to pursue the relationship he wanted because he was so certain that he still wanted it. We saw that whole process for Yuan. 

Where the show really dropped the ball is that we didn't see that same deep process happen for Wei Qian. We saw it start, we saw him learn about his younger brother's feelings for him and have an initial response of shock and anger and some revulsion. We saw him push Yuan away. We saw him miss him terribly and regret pushing him away. We saw him start to change the way he saw him when he came back as an adult, and start to get more comfortable with seeking him out as a partner instead of as a younger brother. And then we just saw an abrupt flipped switch, where suddenly he was comfortable not only being in a romance, but in a sexual relationship. And I think that's where they really dropped the ball, is in that transition at the end. And unfortunately, that was the most important part of the story. [laughs] So it's a pretty shitty place to drop the ball, show! 

But, this show did so many of my favorite things—found family, intergenerational family trauma, a serious relationship change narrative. These are like three of my most favorite things in drama. The characters were struggling through poverty, that's another big thing that I love to see depicted well in drama, and the show took it seriously. This show, it felt like, was almost made in a lab to, like, hook me in the heart. And I still have a lot of warm feelings about it and love it, even though it kind of let me down in the end. 

But I'm curious, Ben, to hear you reflect, because I know versions of this trope have caused trouble for you before. I feel like you did better with this than you maybe thought you would, Ben.

Ben

So as someone who has had slurs thrown at him with real intent, I am particularly sensitive to narratives that wanna play with taboo that reflects some of the worst disingenuous presumptions about how queer people behave. I don't always enjoy these sort of narratives where they wanna deal with family members coming of age and developing feelings for each other and then wanting to pursue them. I often struggle with stepsibling relationships in particular because their parents had a romance. I don't usually enjoy the discord that the stepbrothers relationship is introducing to the genuine attempt by their parents to blend their families. 

I don't think this show prickled that because they're more akin to orphans than stepsiblings. I'm less perturbed by orphans who use familial terms to establish closeness and present themselves as a unit to other people, wanting to change that down the road. Also, a smart thing the show did was they used three actors to play Yuan to reflect his growth and change over time, which was a very good choice for this kind of story.

00:27:53 Unknown: San Pang, Li Li, and Family in the Narrative

Shan

The other piece of this trope—the pseudo incest trope—that adds a layer, is that the taboo associated with incest does become part of the story. The external community and their other loved ones become an important part of the decision-making around the relationship change. You're gonna see other people being uncomfortable with the change in the relationship, so it adds this layer of complexity. 

Here, the most important and main stand-in for that, we have San Pang, who has been raised alongside them as their neighbor, who also sees himself as an older brother to Yuan and Li Li, who is the first person to catch on to Yuan’s feelings. He is the one who puts it together and sees the way Yuan’s feelings are changing, and he's the one who tells Qian. In the wake of his coming out to Qian—admitting that he is gay, but not saying who he likes—San Pang is the one who says, “I'm pretty sure you're the person he likes, bro,” and he tries to interfere. He goes to Yuan on his own and he says,”I am seeing this. I want you to understand that it's not something you can pursue. You're going to put so much stress on your brother if you let him find out.” 

There are some great scenes between San Pang and Yuan where they have really important conversations about why it's quote unquote wrong for him to feel this way about Qian, why San Pang feels so uncomfortable with it. He tries to intervene. It doesn't work, and then San Pang’s the one who helps Qian come up with a plan to send Yuan abroad. He was a very important part of that storyline. 

He also is a very important part of the storyline when Yuan comes back as an adult, because he, in those intervening years, has gone through his own journey of his changing feelings for somebody that he also considered a quasi-sibling, and has maybe mellowed out a little bit about what it would mean for the two of them to be together. He sees that the feelings are still there, sees how miserable Qian was when Yuan was gone, and he kind of changes his tune and says, “Maybe I was wrong to try to get in the way of this. Maybe this is the thing that will make you, my best friend in the world who I love, happy, and maybe that's right.” He was such a crucial character in this narrative and I just really loved the way the show used his character as a stand-in for what you would normally see happen with parents in a drama like this.

NiNi

He just wanted to protect everybody. He wants to protect them individually, he wants to protect their family unit. It's very sweet.

Ben

He's like the big cousin who also doesn't know what to do. Wei Qian is stuck with this role, having to care for his sister and the brother that they adopted. That takes a huge amount of personal fortitude to choose to do all of that. San Pang clearly sees this from a young age, and he's always trying to help the best he can. But he's just as young as them and it’s not like he brings any special knowledge to the table. He has these instincts that are grounded in the expected orthodoxy of a family unit, and he's trying to help them replicate that, because he earnestly believes that maybe these things can help them. 

Like, he recognizes that Wei Qian is alone with this huge responsibility he's carrying, and reasonably decides that maybe if he gets a partner who can appreciate that, the mental load on Wei Qian would be better. And as far as he knows, Wei Qian likes girls, so he tries to find women who might be interested in him. That doesn't go well. It's the same thing with always showing up at the clinic when Wei Qian gets the shit beat out of him with the gangster stuff. And even with Yuan, Yuan's feelings come up and he tries to help them, and even when they suggest sending Yuan away, they just wanted him to get some room from Wei Qian to maybe feel something for someone else. Yuan being gay was not their biggest concern. Yuan having feelings for Wei Qian was their primary concern. 

I joked, when he came back sassier and even gayer, that he clearly found his people [laughs] while was in New York. 

Shan

[laughs] Mmhmm. 

Ben

And I ended up really loving San Pang for that. Despite his reticence about Wei Qian, he ends up developing feelings for Li Li, and I think it's because they had those big fights where he was forced to reckon with the nature of these taboos and the orthodoxy they enforce, and whether or not they applied here or not. I feel like San Pang ending up in a relationship with Li Li is intentional by the narrative to draw that line and say, “If this is okay, why not this?”

Shan 

We should talk more about Li Li. One of the things I do credit this show with is caring about the whole family as a unit, and not only about the romance. Her involvement in the story and her relationship with her brothers was just a really important aspect to drive that point home. 

I loved Li Li as a character. She's the little sister that everybody takes care of, including Yuan. She's the one who let him in. When he first followed Wei Qian home, she claimed him as her brother first and brought him into the family. She has a very close but also very different relationship with each of her brothers. And we saw how those bonds held and shifted over time. And when their relationship changed and they decided to be together romantically, Li Li accepted it.

I think she always knew that their relationship was different. What was interesting, I think, and such a good choice, is that she never seemed to feel threatened by that. She was comfortable and secure, knowing that they both loved her. Even though their relationship could maybe sometimes crowd her out. 

Ben 

I really liked that moment in episode 11. We got this little breakdown from her about how nobody cares about Qian. She started to really process, as an adult now, that Wei Qian hid a lot of his suffering from them. 

I actually really like that Li Li got to do teenage rebellion. It says a lot about how effectively Wei Qian did his role as provider that she got to be a bratty teen. 

NiNi 

I feel like as a family story this hits me more than as a romance. Wei Qian’s relationship with both Yuan and Li Li feels parental more than sibling. Li Li and Yuan feel like siblings. 

Shan 

One of the interesting choices that I really appreciate in the story—in the early stages—is that while Wei Qian, I think, was trying to be a parental figure to both of them, Yuan never really accepted that, even when he was younger. And we saw that theme repeat throughout the show of Yuan saying, “You don't have to do it alone. I'm here to help you.” He always, always, always wanted to be a partner to Wei Qian. 

NiNi 

That is true, but this is coming from Yuan’s side. I absolutely see how Yuan made sure, maybe not even consciously, he wanted it to be clear where the boundaries were and the boundary was that, “We are family, we love each other, but you are not my parent, you are not my brother, you are somebody that I am partnered with. We are doing this together in this way.” Yuan always made that distinction. Wei Qian [laughs] is my problem here.

00:35:48 Unknown: The Ending Stumble

Shan 

We should get into where the show stumbled hard, because that's what it all comes down to, right? This big stumble in episode 11. 

NiNi 

Yeah, it just kind of sits over everything and it sits over my entire perception of the story now. I feel like I can't even think of the rest of the story without thinking about how it didn't take me where it needed to go at the end. Yuan comes back to Taiwan and it feels like for Wei Qian, maybe some things have changed, but he's doing a lot to not let this thing happen. And it doesn't feel like a thing that he's fighting against—’cause if it felt like something that he was fighting against, I feel like I could buy it. If it's something that his heart really desires, but his brain is telling him he can't do, like, that works, right? But it doesn't feel like that. 

I don't get where he got shaken. Like, I got the emotional shake. When Yuan gets kidnapped, ‘cause that's a thing that happens, you feel that fear that he had in that moment that he would lose Yuan. I understood why in that moment he would accept that he maybe had these emotions, these feelings that he needed to interrogate for Yuan, and they were churning him up inside, and they got broken out by this thing that happened that shook him. The emotional turn, totally believed. The turn where that goes romantic and sexual, that's the part that—it didn't carry me there. 

Shan 

I do agree with that last bit of what you said. I don't see it the same way as you in terms of not seeing the arc of his feelings starting to change. I think that was very clearly the arc of episodes 7 through 10 for Qian. During their separation, we saw how not functional, frankly, he was without Yuan around. He survived, he got through every day, but he was deeply unhappy. Everybody in his life could see it. He was regretful, he was missing him all the time. And punishing himself and withholding himself from talking to Yuan.

When Yuan came back, he started to interact with him differently. We saw the way that his physical awareness of him was different. We saw him start to seek him out more. We did see him start letting him in on some adult problem solving like he wouldn't have before. He still had his walls up, of course, he was still trying to consciously deny that he was willing to change their relationship in that way. But I do think the show took us through and showed us some very clear moments where his feelings were starting to shift and he was still fighting it. And then, of course, the kidnapping incident really shook him up. 

I think where the failure for me happened was in the moment where this suddenly turned into a sexual desire that we hadn't seen build, at all. And so that is the missing piece for me. They needed a couple more beats in the story there, between him coming to this emotional realization of his desire to keep Yuan next to him forever, and for that to then build into a sexual attraction that he was comfortable acting on. And I think that latter part is where they really dropped the ball. They have him literally say, “I'm not ready yet. I haven't figured out what I'm comfortable with yet.” And then like, literally two minutes later, he's like, “Fuck it, never mind.” And they're just going to town on each other. 

That didn't work for me at all. It was a very strange choice. It was a mistake. The show just really fumbled, and it sucks because they fumbled at the most important part of the story after building it so beautifully for ten weeks to just drop the ball that hard. It's a little bit baffling to me? 

Ben 

Episode 10 ends at the huge emotional turn for Wei Qian. And it was really frustrating for the show to conflate the emotional turn and the sexual turn and try and follow that immediately with the sex in the next episode. That was not the right choice. If the show had done the emotional turn and then spent at least half the episode dealing with this building sexual tension, that would have been interesting. 

The show was obsessed with staying on Yuan's perspective the whole time. It would have been totally fine if Yuan was crackling with sexual energy at the knowledge that Wei Qian had finally hit the emotional turn. But instead they really wanted to have reward sex and then focus on this stupid health scare plot. The problem is, the sex scene isn't good because there's no arc to it. Yuan has been ready to fuck this man for ten years and Wei Qian hasn't been ready to fuck anyone for, like, 15 years. 

They brought up this whole notion that part of Wei Qian's closed-off nature about sex is because his mom possibly abused him. And I just really did not enjoy the show rushing into this sudden sexual comfortability with Wei Qian after showing us that he did not have a good relationship with sex, and I feel like that needed to be resolved before those two were going to be able to have that sort of moment. As a result, the sex scene doesn't create much of an emotional arc, and the show knows this too, because they fucking fill it with stupid Yuan flashbacks. This should be about the change in Wei Qian, not the culmination of Yuan's feelings. 

Wei Qian's reticence about sex is not handled by the story, whether it be discovering queerness in himself or processing the sexual trauma from his mom or getting over whatever blocks about the kid you see as your brother wants to be with you. That part of it was missing when they had set up for it with the end of episode 10, where Wei Qian let down whatever big emotional barrier was between, “I need to protect Yuan,” versus, “I don't wanna be without Yuan.” They were prepped for it, totally, to go into that next area. And then they just didn't, and decided to make it about Wei Qian having a blood clot. 

NiNi 

All the pieces were actually there, they're just in the wrong order. There's a scene after the fact where they're doing this dating SIM game or whatever at work and Wei Qian is having these flashbacks to the sex scene. Why did they not let him have that moment as a fantasy moment before—

Shan 

Yes! 

NiNi

—rather than a flashback moment after? 

Ben 

That's what I also thought at the time. But you know how angry I get on this podcast [Ben and Shan laugh] about having to mentally rejigger the show [NiNi laughs] to make it fucking work. I will not!

Shan 

Besties! That's what they do in the book! That is exactly what they do in the book! [laughs]

Ben 

That's so fuckin’ aggravating. [laughs] I’m so fucking mad! 

Shan 

It’s so aggravating! All the things we're saying they should have done, they fucking did in the book! And I don't [claps hands together] know why the show didn't do it. I'm so mad! 

Ben 

She clappin’, yo, she mad. 

[all laugh]

00:43:32 Unknown: Adapting the Da Ge Novel

Shan 

We haven't talked too much yet about the novel, but I do wanna talk a little bit about some of the adaptation choices that were made here. This show is an adaptation of the novel Da Ge by Priest, who is a very well known danmei author. Other live action adaptations of her books include Word of Honor, Guardian, Justice in the Dark... several others, a lot of them have now been shelved or didn't get to finish airing because of the ban in China. So, it was extremely exciting for fans of her works to see a Taiwanese production take up an adaptation of one of her books, because we know that we're not gonna get good adaptations of danmei anymore out of China, because they are banning queer content and censoring it all to hell—even more than other countries. 

They made a lot of really smart adaptation choices in the way that they structured the show. The book is a lot more complex, in the way that most Priest novels are. There's a lot more characters, the plots are far more intricate, there's a lot more going on. There's an additional member of the family in the book. There's another best friend in the building. There are, like, three different gangs [laughs] instead of one. There's this whole corporate real estate plot that's tied to Wei Qian's work. It's a lot more complex. 

The show did, I think, a fantastic job of making choices to streamline the story, to make it simple enough to fit into a 12 episode arc while still retaining the core themes and the core relationships. And it also did some really great work around the cultural pieces. Mainland China has a lot more deep homophobia, fatphobia, some real weirdness around the way, in media, that sex and gay sex in particular get discussed, and this show really smoothed all of that out. 

Where they really blew it on the adaptation is at this end arc. You see all these aspects of Wei Qian's emotional journey that we are lamenting the show missed. I don't really understand why the show decided to ignore that material in favor of doing what it did instead. A lot of the stuff in the final arc was not in the book at all. If you are someone who loved this story and is disappointed in the ending, I just can't recommend highly enough that you read that book. 

Ben 

That's the theme of this episode. [laughs] If you enjoyed these shows, go do something else. 

Shan 

[laughs] Do something else! No, but do watch Unknown. I do love this show. I don't wanna say that you shouldn’t watch it, but you should go read the book too, ‘cause it'll fill in some pieces that we're missing here.

00:46:15 Unknown: Final Thoughts and Ratings

Ben 

I totally get NiNi maybe not being super connected to what was goin’ on, and if they had not fucked up episode 11, it just would have been an interesting conversation about, where does this gap form? But now we're bogged down in the fact that it's easy to point to the lack of payoff. I watched episode 12 this morning before we're recording this session. And I was like, “Okay, I guess this is fine.” [Shan laugh] This is meant to feel like, almost, epilogue. And I enjoyed the big family hand hold. But I really feel like they really failed at the final steps of the “Yuan and Wei Qian are now a couple” turn, which is really annoying because there were so many things that it did great. 

In the very final episode, there's this really great sequence when we learn that Li Li is pregnant and they have the reaction in the hallway and everybody's coming out of different doors that you don't expect. 

Shan 

That is the funniest scene. 

Ben 

Every time Wei Qian wanted to kill San Pang? [Shan laughs] Some of the best scenes in this show. Like, fucking Yuan sitting on the couch eatin’ his tomatoes, he was enjoying the chaos. We got this other woman who might be with Wei Qian, “I can take care of my brother.”

[Ben and Shan laugh] 

Shan 

He's like, “Don't you worry about it.” I did love those moments of Yuan being like, “Oh, I'm not the family problem now, ha!” [laughs] He's just like sitting back and enjoying it. 

Even at the end, I was frustrated with the last two episodes, but I still had a lot of affection for these characters and this family. This isn't an ending that completely ruined the show, for me. 

Ben 

Shan has a bat she holds called coulda been a 10 that she bashes sh— 

Shan

Yes! [laughs] 

Ben

—bashes shows with.

Shan 

Goddammit! One of the pieces of my frustration here is that this was on track to possibly be the best Taiwanese BL ever made. 

NiNi

Okay, so ratings. Shan, let's have you go first. What do you rate Unknown?

Shan

I gave it a 9. I had to take out my coulda been a 10 bat. 

I think that the narrative and the character work was so strong through the first 10 episodes that I can't take it lower than that. It's sticking with me. It's been a while since I finished the show, and I still think about it every single day. I think about these characters all the time, and that's not gonna go away just because the last couple episodes were a little bit disappointing for me.

NiNi

Ben, how about you?

Ben

Because I am in the business of recommending things—it's my whole shtick—this is an 8.5. It sits between “BL fans should watch this” and “People who like romance should watch this,” for me. I can't give it a 9 because I feel really strongly about the episode 11/12 caveats. But I don't wanna pretend that I didn't think that this cast did a really great job capturing the nuances of their dynamics. And even if they're let down a little bit by some of the direction and writing choices towards the end, I think that the family portion of this is so good, genuinely. So I do think this show is worth watching for people who enjoy the kinds of narratives the show wants to play with. We just need to understand that it stumbles at the end. 

NiNi?

NiNi

I'm having a hard time with this one because in my head this isn't a BL. If I had to put it into a category in my head, it would get slotted near to something like a Moonlight Chicken or 180 D. But it doesn't have the queer bona fides that either of those have. It feels like a family drama that had a romance in it that happened to be this kid falling in love with somebody who is taking care of him. But the idea of it being a central romance, I just didn't buy. So it was a difficult one for me to rate in terms of how I felt about it as a romance. 

In the end, I ended up at an 8 for the show. I think as a family drama, it's excellent. As a family drama, I would probably give it a 9.5 and as a romance, I would probably give it a 7, and so I wind up somewhere in the middle, which for me is an 8. I feel like it's a solid 8 show.

Ben

It's an 8.5 from The Conversation, recommended with specific reservations!

NiNi

You gotta get that .5 in. It's fine.

Shan

We gotta get it in. We gotta—

Ben

That's just how math works!

Shan

—gotta get it in.

NiNi

I know, I'm allowing you to have math. It was a good show.

Ben

It could have been an excellent show, but hmph!

Shan

So close to being one of my all time favorite dramas. It's fine, I'm just gonna go cry about it.

Ben

You were mad about it, because Shan wasn't even buggin’ me on a Saturday, like, “Go watch this show, Ben. Go watch it right now. Wake up, gay boy! Go watch the show so I can talk.”

[Ben and NiNi laugh]

Shan

Ben knew I didn't like the final episodes ‘cause I was not asking him if he watched them yet. [laugh] I was like, I don't wanna talk about it!

00:51:53 - Whither Taiwanese BL?

NiNi 

I want us to talk a little bit about where Taiwanese BL is and what's been happening with it lately and whether it is making the leap in the same ways that other countries appear to be making the leap lately. Whatever that leap is for them. 

I feel in some ways like Taiwanese BL has been a bit stagnant. 

Ben 

Taiwan is a super small country and… politically, they have been a little distracted for a few years! They're not in a position to do a ton more with BL right now. I don't think that we're gonna see a huge sudden surge from Taiwan. The best thing about Unknown is that Taiwan is not out of the game altogether, ‘cause I was real worried! The HIStory franchise is in ruins, and we hadn't really seen something of this production caliber in a while. 

Shan 

I'm with you, Ben. Honestly, when Unknown started airing, I was like, “Oh, thank God, Taiwan can still do it.” I have always been a fan of Taiwanese BLs, which might feel a little bit discordant because [laughs] I am someone who cares a lot about writing and storytelling and story is usually, honestly, the weakest part of Taiwanese BL. They usually don't have good writing. But, what I've always connected to in Taiwanese BLs is, I feel like they have a really good handle on relationship dynamics. They're really good at building characters that connect well with each other emotionally, physically—they've always done really good physical intimacy work in their shows, they usually cast really well for chemistry—and so usually in Taiwanese BLs, it's the characters and the character dynamics that hook me, more than the story. 

So I was really excited to see the high quality Taiwanese production that I knew had a good story underpinning it. I hope to see more. I personally had a great time with Kiseki: Dear To Me, but it is not exactly high art. [laughs] And this run of VBL shows was so bad that I was really losing faith. I had made a commitment that I was going to at least try watching every single Taiwanese BL that comes out. I'm still sticking with that, but I was starting to flag a little bit because some of these shows were so bad. 

So I was so thrilled to see that they still were doing productions of this caliber. And Unknown has been quite successful and got them a lot of positive attention, and so I'm hopeful that they'll be able to continue putting together productions like this, drawing actors of the caliber that they got for this show. I'm more hopeful because this show happened than I was certainly at the end of the year. 

Ben 

I will say the way that the Taiwanese actors talk about the work remains one of my favorite things. I be deep in these cast interviews, seein’ what they have to say about this work, and these Taiwanese boys have really nuanced and complex feelings about the work they're doing playing queer characters. I feel the respect and sometimes the duty they feel to get it right in the way they talk about their characters and the work they're doing. That's why I remain very friendly to… even [laughs] some of the jankiest Taiwanese BLs. These boys take playing queerness seriously. It's really warming for me to know that these guys understand that they're portraying queer people and that queer people will be affected by their portrayals. 

NiNi 

I think I just don't have the connection to Taiwanese drama. I'm coming at this from kdrama, through jdrama, through Thai drama. Taiwan’s the last place that I landed, and I think that I just haven't made the leap yet in terms of style and rhythms and all those other things. Mostly because I don't get to see a lot of it, there is not much. And I think that that definitely impacts how I feel about Taiwanese drama and Taiwanese BL. There are some I love—you know, I'm a staunch lover of HIStory 2: Right or Wrong. You know how I feel about Make Our Days Count. You know how I feel about We Best Love. But none of those, except maybe Right or Wrong, as Shan pointed out, has really stellar writing. 

Ben 

Why would you mention Make Our Days Count? I'm so mad all of a sudden! [laughs]

Shan 

No! Don't go there, Ben. Earmuffs!

NiNi 

We're never gonna get out of a Taiwanese BL conversation without it coming up. It just [laughs] isn’t gonna happen. 

Ben 

[volume raising] Wanna talk about endings for Taiwanese—

Shan

No!

Ben

—BLs?! [laughs]

Shan 

No, we do not! Stop. Pause. NiNi, continue your point. 

NiNi 

What have I done? [laughs] 

Yeah, I agree with Shan that the writing isn't great, and that's maybe one of the reasons that I haven't latched on to Taiwanese BL in the way that I have to others, because I am also a writing person. I can get behind a story for other reasons, and I have. I've gotten behind stories that were not written well because there was some other element of them that really grabbed me, and that's what has happened to me in the Taiwanese BLs that I have liked. But just generally, I don't gravitate in this direction, and there hasn't really been anything yet that makes me wanna gravitate more in this direction?

I recognise the strength of character development. I recognise the fantastic acting in a lotta instances, some of these guys are amazing actors. I just, it hasn't moved me in the kind of ways that I've been moved from other things. And it kinda makes me sad in some ways. I'm still looking for that Taiwanese BL that's gonna grab me by the throat. I haven't found that one yet. I'll keep looking. 

Shan 

It's hard, too, ‘cause like Ben said, it's such a small industry. We don't get that many Taiwanese BLs and we certainly don't get that many of quality. But, I've always really loved the approach to BL that Taiwan brings. 

Ben 

I really feel like when they make BL, somebody in the room is asking how gay people might feel about some of the choices they're making. 

Shan 

I'm gonna keep showing up for Taiwanese BL. I'm gonna keep watching them. I really hope that we get to see more productions of this caliber. I hope that we get to see them working from strong source material, so that the storytelling can really live up to what the casts are bringing. I'm excited to see what comes out next. 

NiNi 

Ray Jiang can stay, though, I like his directorial style. He keeps doing stuff and he hits on something that really pops? I feel like that's the one that's gonna grab me. If I wasn't terrified of what Lin Pei Yu was capable of after Kiseki. If I could get Lin Pei Yu at her best plus Ray Jiang at his best, with basically any of the actors I've ever seen in Taiwanese BL, maybe we'll get something that will grab me by the throat. 

Anyway, that is going to wrap us up on… what's the name of this episode? 

Shan 

Have we decided yet? Hmm. 

Ben 

The State of Taiwan, Taiwanese BL episode, whatever. 

NiNi 

Okay. That is going to wrap us up on our Taiwan episode. We out!

Thank you for being here, Shan. Say bye to the people. 

Shan 

Thank you for having me. Bye, people! 

NiNi 

Say bye to the people, Ben. 

Ben 

Peace.

[chicademartinica]

2023 Favorites

Come play favorites with me.

Favorite Korean BL: The Eighth Sense. / Runner up: Our dating Sim

Favorite Thai BL: Never let me go / Runner up: Moonlight Chicken

Favorite Japanese BL: The end of the world with you / Runner up: My Beautiful man eternal (Show +Movie)

Favorite Taiwanese BL: Kiseki Dear to me / Runner up: Stay by my side.

Best director(s): Inu Baek & Werner du Plessis for The Eighth Sense (Korea and Germany) EX AEQUO with Jojo Tichakorn Phukhaothong (Thailand) for FIVE SHOWS (BL or not everything Jojo does is QUEER): Never let me go / Never let me go Our Skyy 2/ The Warp effect / Only Friends / Dirty Laundry. To be noted and congratulated: OG Thai BL director Tee Sintanaparadee with his best work to date: I feel you linger in the air.

Best cinematography: Never let me go by Rat Rungruang (Thailand) / Runner Up: Moonlight Chicken ALSO by Rat Rungruang EX AEQUO Never let me go Our skyy 2 ALSO by Rat Rungruang.

Best use of color theory : The eighth sense GREEN.

Best score /musical moment (instrumental): “Save you from the Death” by Ruiqi Zhao. This song is so good it was used in two shows, airing at the same time, produced by the same man, on the same channel. We first hear it in Never let me go (episode 05) as Palm ravenously kisses Nueng (for a long long long long time) for the first time. AND THEN it’s back in Moonlight Chicken (episode 01) as Uncle Jim and Wen do everything but kiss under the moonlight. Aof and Jojo really said we both using it to be desperate and erotic and what of it. 10/10 no notes.

Runner up: “Refined enlightenment” by Howard Harper-Barnes in I feel you linger in the air (episode 07): The soaring strings that perfectly follows Jom’s arousal as he masturbates to the memory of the most erotic oil massage ever. Refined INDEED. // “Bleeding Signs” by Chris Shards in Never let me go (episode 05): Dark and moody indie rock rumbles as Nueng reels from his brutal outing, homophobia, and Ben’s betrayal before collapsing in Palm’s arms in the yellow of Bangkok polluted twilight.

Best score/ musical moment (with lyrics): “I can’t lose it all” by Ben Goldstein in The Eight Sense (episode 06) The singer belting “I’m losing my mind (…) I can’t lose it all” are the only words we hear for the last minutes of a great, hazy fugue of an episode. (Last spoken line: “To give you trauma” before the lovers start kissing.) Jae Won and Ji Hyun make love and when the song stops, I was left with greys waves, panic, and a burning “JAE WON WERE YOU OR WERE YOU NOT HIGH OUT OF YOUR MIND FOR ALL OF THIS? Was that song a call back to “Where is my mind” of Fight Club fame just to play with our nerves? Good times. //Runner up: “Monsoons” by Johannes Bornlöf and Le June in Never let me go. This song plays for two minutes straight as Palm sways drunkenly in his lover’s arms as he reels from his mother’s violent death. “Monsoon rain and chest pains”, blurry lens and sloppy, tear-soaked kissing. Peak lakorn.

Favorite couple: PalmNueng in Never let me go. // Runner up : KingUea in Bed Friend.

Favorite chemistry: PondPhuwin as Palmnueng, GMMtv true hidden gem. Runner up: Nat Chen and Jiang Dian as Chen Yi and Ai Di in Kiseki Dear to me.

Favorite individual performance: Film Thanapat in Laws of Attraction// Runner up: Mix Sahaphap in Moonlight Chicken.

Most beloved actor this year: Mark Pakin.

Favorite Ensemble: Moonlight Chicken // Runner up: The Warp Effect

Favorite mother figure: Grandma in Laws of Attraction. Amazing actress, well written (Grieving!) character. // Runner up: Ji Hyun’s boss in The eighth sense.

Favorite friendship: Pat and Chot in Step by Step! Pat’s whole friend group! // Runner up: Alex and Army in The Warp Effect.

Favorite siblings: The Gu siblings in Stay by my side. // Jeng and Jaab in Step by Step.

My hatred for you knows no bounds: Uea’s "mother" in Bed Friend. // Runner up: Phupha in The Promise EX AEQUO Tae Hyung in The eighth sense.

Most beloved character: Palm! My sweet boy! // Runner up: King! MY King!

Favorite “I love you”: “I LOVE YOU UNCLE JIM” Li Ming in Moonlight Chicken.

Favorite proposal: Charn being a lawyer and a marriage equality advocate while Tinn is just trying to marry the nutjob in Laws of Attraction.

Favorite wedding: TinnCharn and the baby’s doll on the chair (Tears!). Runner up: Palmnueng marrying by proxy while being guests at a gay wedding.

The category is “Boohoo snot bubble I’m dazed and crying”: The eighth Sense. Runner up: Moonlight Chicken.

The category is “I’ve watched this scene without breathing.”: Ji Hyun’s reaching for Jae Won’s hand in The eighth sense ep 09 // Runner up: Ki Tae confronting Lee Wan in episode 04 of Our dating Sim.

The category is “My cheeks are hurting I’m smiling so much”: Our dating Sim // Runner up: Love tractor.

Punchline: “Have you been well? Without me?”  Ki Tae to Lee Wan Our dating Sim / “I miss you so much. I miss you so much” Fan Ze Rui to Bai Zong Yi Kiseki Dear to me.

Funny punchline: “You only love me when you do me.” Cher to Boss in A boss and a babe. // Runner up: “We can continue as a throuple” Rando in Laws of attraction.

Erotic honorific: “Call me Hia Win. Hia Win.” In Between Us. // “Can you tell Nong Cher what your present is Phi Gun” or “Phi Jeng” for “The kinkification of Phi” in A boss and a Babe and Step by Step.

The category is ‘What is this?!! A 90’s Yaoi Manga ?!!”: Kim Jong Chan’s (Korean actor Kwon Hyuk) Yaoi hands holding his lover’s whole head in his palm as they kiss in The New employee. // Runner up: Cho Jun’s ( Ki Hyun Woo) in a an all-black suit in Jun & Jun.

The category is "Whew why was this so hot ?" : Charn obscenely rubbing Tinn's arm up and down while Tinn is trying to punch him in Laws of Attraction// Runner up : Jae Won manhandling Baby Mouse by the straps of his backpack in The eighth sense.

Best smile: First Kanaphan as Sand in Only Friends // Nat Chen and his dimple as Chen Yi in Kiseki Dear to me.

Unfathomable eyes: Pond Naravit and his under-eye mole in Never let me go EX AEQUO Net Siraphop in Bed Friend.

Favorite dream sequence: Baby Ye Chan’s first erotic dream in Love Tractor.

Favorite kiss (on the lips): Palmnueng last kiss on the beach in episode 12 of NLMG. It’s soft and super erotic, there’s a bit of tongue, a bit of teeth and they are both shivering like crazy. Pondphuwin killed it and the magnificent Thai scenery finished it// Runner up: Bostonnick against the wall at the back of the store. Surprisingly Nick was the aggressor but was still moaning loud as hell. Neomark punched me in the face with their chemistry and hunger. Give them a good show and let them kiss. A lot.

Favorite kiss (not on the lips). Nueng burying his face between Palm’s shoulder blades to kiss his tattoo in the finale of NLMG. // Ze Rui rubbing and kissing Zong Yi’s beauty mark every chance he gets in Kiseki dear to me.

Favorite sniff kiss (special Thailand): Uncle Jim inhaling Wen’s face in Moonlight Chicken. Possibly the most erotic sniff kiss I have ever seen, shout out to Earth. // Runner up: Winteam having a HEAVY ratio of sniff kisses in their make-outs in Between Us.

Favorite neck kiss: Bed Friend’s King is the BL best neck kisser, licker, biter ever. Net being shorter than James made this even more enjoyable. // Ray being obsessed with Sand’s neck in Only Friends.

Favorite make out: JengPat car make out in Step by Step. Whew. // Runner up: WinTeam locker room make out. Whew.

Favorite erotic moment: Win seducing Team and making sure he is sober, single, and horny while fogging up the room in Between Us. // Runner up: I feel you linger in the air oil massage than orgasm to the memories of said oil massage.

Favorite O scene: Songkhram and Ai making love in Destiny Seeker. Who knew 69ing could be so cute? // Runner up: Ritsu and Masumi, I quote “going at it like monkeys” in The end of the world with you. Ritsu was a fuckboy from space but also like, a Japanese sex God.

Favorite cuddles: Winteam. In bed. Every single scene in Between Us // King clinging to Uea, dead asleep in the crook of his neck in Bed Friend.

Favorite hug: Li Ming hugging a sobbing Heart in Moonlight Chicken.

Favorite tears: WinTeam devastating sobs after Win saves his boo from drowning.

Favorite lift off: Ai Di spending one third of the show being carried by Chen Yi. // Runner up: Joke carrying Zo like he is not also 6ft1 in Hidden Agenda.

Favorite food : Love Mate's orgasmic post sex burgers and fries in episode 04.

That's my too long list of 2023 favorites. Hope you enjoy. @absolutebl and all of you booes are welcome to use the categories you like, please tag me in your lists. To a very bisexual (AND VAMPIRIC) 2024 together.

Chica.

[respectthepetty]

Well well well well!

I have seen you being asked about your fav TW BL dramas. but I’m here to ask about…… your top 10 (or however many you want tbh) BL thai dramas!

Teeheeheeee!!

Ps: can someone else pop up and then ask you too Korean BL dramas? *wink*

Anon, I think YOU will have to come back and ask about my top Korean dramas because after people see this list, they will realize how trashy I truly am and never seek a response from me again. I've already written about my Top GMMTV Actors, my Top GMMTV Pairs, and my Top Five Taiwanese BLs, but this requested list will really show people that I am a dumpster fire, so let me present my

Top Ten Thai BLs

Before I start, I need to list my personal preferences since I have watched over 150 Thai BLs (if not 200), with a third coming from within the past year and a half alone. A show must meet at least two:

Don't bury the gay (MANDATORY!)

Be gay. Do crime! aka "Eff the police" (literally or figuratively)

I'm a messy bi, and I'll cry if I want to

Adulting is hard like my sexual attraction for you

Vice Vers(a) - Flipping the norms and changing dynamics

Next, I need to establish some ground rules:

The series must have completed prior to June 1, so Step by Step, Be My Favorite, La Pluie and other running shows cannot be considered.

It had to be marketed as a BL, so 3 Will Be Free, The Warp Effect, and Great Men Academy cannot be considered.

I could only pick a pair once, so most of GMMTV shows couldn't be considered if I picked another show the pair was featured in.

It couldn't have hurt my queer feelings, so My Only 12%, Until We Meet Again, I Told Sunset about You, and 180 Degree Longitude Passes through Us were cut for rubbing salt in real-world wounds.

A third of the final list had to be BL shows that aired prior to 2022.

Narrowing it down with those two filters, here are a dozen shows that didn't make the cut with a brief reasoning:

The Eclipse - pair already picked

Triage - the gay died each time the clock reset

Ghost Host, Ghost House - not within my personal preferences

Never Let Me Go - aired in 2022. Sorry Jojo!

My School President - pair already picked

Secret Crush on You - aired in 2022

Bad Buddy - it knows what it did to me

Together with Me - pair already picked

Lovely Writer - not within my personal preferences

A Tale of Thousand Stars - pair already picked

Between Us - it knows what it did to me

My Ride - not within my personal preferences

One more thing before I give you the list -

Honorable Mentions

To Sir, With Love

I was raised on soap operas and telenovelas, so this lakorn was seventeen episodes of blissful drama, yet served one of the best pairings and family members of 2022. It was also a historical drama, so the ending being happy was unexpected, but much appreciated.

Destiny Seeker

All the shows on my list have color coding, but this show wins every color-coding award I can give. As a self-proclaimed color demon, this show fed my soul and my heart with its color exchange between two great characters who were just trying to unify the Pretty Boys and the Jocks in a tale as old as time, yet more colorful than ever.

Now, the actual list

Top Ten Thai BLs

#10 - Dark Blue Kiss

Pete and Kao went from a bit toxic in This Kiss series, to a solid couple trying to navigate the difficult situation of having one person in a relationship still in the closet. The reason was realistic as well - career. Kao coming out could have not only hurt his future, but his mother's job as well, and the socioeconomic difference between Pete and Kao was front and center during these discussions. Mix all of that with the addition of Sun and Mork and their dynamic of light enemies to lovers, and this ended up being a surprise favorite. It also had beautiful cinematography at a period when the production value of BLs was being elevated which is greatly due to director/screenwriter Aof and cinematographer Rath.

#9 - Big Dragon

If someone would have told me during the first episode that I would like love this show as much as I did by the end, I would not have believed it, but here I am, in love with this show. It started off with two idiots being at their peak toxic level, yet ended with the softest men in love. The cinematography was beautiful, Mangkorn and Yai had a natural chemistry when teasing each other, and the music was good, so good that I actually listened to the lead sing his love confession…twice! Mos and ISBANKY made me excited to see what else Star Hunter has in store, and that was a door I had closed long ago. Big Dragon 2 when?

#8 - Bed Friend

Much like Big Dragon, I showed up for a raunchy series about fuck buddies, but ended up witnessing two men work through trauma and showed that with support, healing is possible. King was the biggest green flag that has ever graced my screen, and the way Net's big brown eyes portray lust, love, and devotion is a skill that only matches James' embodiment of a sex kitten. I watched them in Catch Me Baby, but Bed Friend brought an entire new level of chemistry from them that balanced the heavier aspects of the show in a way that any other pair would have squandered. Because of NetJames, this show will remain in my tops for years to come, and makes me even more excited for Love Upon a Time.

#7 - You're My Sky

We, collectively, did this show dirty. As BL fans, we did not appreciate it enough, and still don't. Because it came out in 2022, a year stacked with excellent BLs, it was pushed to the sidelines when it should have been at everyone's top for any number of reasons like the pairings were solid (childhood friends, senior/freshman, pseudo-enemies to lovers), the plot was consistent, and the cinematography was beautiful. We have a few sports-related BLs which do a great job of discussing the connection between toxic masculinity and male-dominated sports, and although this series didn't lean all the way in, it gave us a glimpse of what men must sacrifice in order to be considered the best in such an environment, especially when it comes to love.

#6 - Not Me

Every character is shippable with every other character. That is the power of this series. Yet, because I’m petty, I’m still holding a grudge not about GramBlack (Eugene/Gene, really?!) BUT that ToddBlack did not happen! In a show that was queer in several aspects (marriage equality, society’s disapproval, found family, etc.), it was strange that it didn’t deliver on the Black front examining how power dynamics, socioeconomic inequality in regards to privilege, and performance of masculinity affect queer experiences (all possessed by the ToddBlack pairing), but what it did deliver was a great premise about fighting back against oppression (labor discrimination, educational gaps, monopolies), which is why even though the ending was shaky, it still deserves a top spot for existing.

#5 - KinnPorsche

As much as I wrote about this show, I’m shocked it isn’t #1, but sitting through the final episode’s credits believing what I believed about Vegas left me feeling a certain type of way that I’m still not over. It had all the elements I love: Be gay, do crime, messy tears, vice vers(a), and the cinematography was perfection. Symbolism and foreshadowing were intertwined into every scene, so watching each episode was an experience and the aftermath was devouring hours of meta analysis. This was the first series I was excited to watch live unmuted and at normal speed, and I liked each pairing, plus rooted for others who were never going to happen (Big & Chan, Khun & everyone), which made this a fun journey even after the final credits finished (World Tour, anyone?!).

#4 - Love Mechanics

I LOVE MESS, and this show gave me ten glorious messy episodes of the messiest mess. Much like the chokeholds VeeMark excelled out, this show had me by the throat (implication intended). I was shocked when it was announced En of Love: Love Mechanics would be remade and extended from four episodes into ten. I liked the original, but the basic plot (drunkenly having sex right at the beginning – how very Together with Me of them) did not sit well with me the first time around, yet once I saw the remake’s trailer, I WAS SOLD! Look at the angst! Look at the pining! Look at the chemistry! Look at the same steps and dorm from Together with Me! I could write forever about this show because it is better than the original, it was so similar to Together with Me that I had to squint to make sure it wasn’t, and the happy ending with Mark’s tears, although never doubted, feels like a personal win, which is why it was my number one of 2022.

#3 - Manner of Death

MaxTul own me. Every couple I watch gets compared to MaxTul and the chemistry they bring. Together With Me is a favorite, but when Manner of Death aired, it spotlighted the evolution of MaxTul in the most beautiful way imaginable. The dark plot of drug and sex trafficking was difficult for most, but both of these characters' commitment to finding the truth in their own way while taking on the ACAB attitude even towards the one police officer they did like was a buffet that just kept serving me. I was truly worried because of the nature of the show that a happy ending wouldn't be possible, but not only did the show end with vows being exchanged, but the promise of another season as well. TRANSPLANT WHEN?!

#2 - Moonlight Chicken

This was an adult show and toes the line of being truly queer media rather than a standard BL. I felt seen every time Jim sat silently examining his life and his choices. His hesitation to open his heart again to another person after being hurt in such a realistically queer way in a country that doesn't have marriage equality almost made me cut this show due to hurting my queer feelings. However, if I was willing to give up three pairs (FirstKhao -The Eclipse, GeminiFourth - My School President, and EarthMix - A Tale of Thousand Stars) for this one show, I knew it had to included. Aof working around the grief of losing a parent while examining gentrification and generational trauma all through a queer lens is a feat most would fail at, but this show shines, literally and figuratively thanks once again to cinematographer Rath.

#1 - He's Coming to Me

I must end where I began - Aof, the director and screenwriter, changed the Thai BL game with this one, and hasn't slowed down since, which is why two of his other pieces are in my top ten, and several others are featured in my short list. Cinematographer Rath has also made his mark on this list, and it all started with this one for me. No other BL series has stuck with me the way He's Coming to Me has. Not one element of this show doesn't work. It's cohesive. It's emotional. It's everything to me. I cannot give this show enough praise. It created a unique magic in eight episodes that hasn't left my heart for four years.

And probably never will.

Now, who wants to ask about Korea?

[color-beyond-lines]

I am so satisfied with the way First Note of Love has set up Neil’s arc. It’s a perfect mixing of plot & character motivation that has me wishing I could binge the whole series right now.

Here is someone whose life has been completely derailed due to tragedy and the grief that accompanied it. Unable and unwilling to move on, we meet him at a point where he is being forced out of the past and into the present despite everything in him railing against the idea.

There is not only a legit reason Neil needs to release music (contract about to expire), but also a legit motivation for him to renew the contract (keep the copyright to the songs he made with his late brother).

From the joy Neil used to have while playing music to the way he pulls it out of himself now, to Sea coming to life while he was works on music. It’s a striking contrast that creates great tension for what’s to come.

The supporting characters are not just stereotypes, which I greatly appreciate. They clearly have their own personalities and lives outside of their relationships to the MCs.

It’s evident that the cast and creative team understand these characters and their world. Taiwanese bls excel at immersing you in the world of the series. I can already sense it in First Note of Love. It’s hitting the classic tropes, but it works because it’s so grounded in the multidimensional characters. I’m just really pleased with how the story has been set up, and I’m intrigued to see it play out!

[absolutebl]

Best & Worst BLs of 2023

My Top 15 BLs of 2023 are (in order)

1 Our Dating Sim

Korea Viki

Nerds in love, deadlines, gaming, teasing, pining tiny idiots, casual affection, linguistic oops, ADORABLE. If you haven't watched this, it's a must. A perfect short form KBL, an office set reunion romance featuring geeks that really suits 8 eps with no fluff and no chaff. Just comforting and yummy.

I adored every aspect from the casting to the pristinely simple premise to the quietly smooth execution. Sure it’s low stakes, but that makes it high domesticity and extremely warm and gentle. This is a fuzzy blanket of a story - a cozy BL. It lives in my rewatch pile and you know what’s best about it? Every single episode is in that pile. There’s no skipping with this one, it might be good natured and calmly sweet but it’s tight and the pacing is excellent.

Also recieves my 2023 award for best giggle.

2 I Cannot Reach You

AKA I Can't Reach You AKA Kimi ni wa Todokanai

Japan Netflix

This classic friends-to-lovers BL is everything Japan does best. Angsty. Emo. Aching. Driven by real thirst. Yamato is deeply in love with his childhood bestie, Kakeru, and has been for ages, unable to hide his ungainly damaging high school need. He wants Kakeru in every way possible and it oozes off of the screen.

Kakeru is silly and a little simple, but not frenetic or overly camp about it. He is earnest, and genuinely wants to keep Yamato in his life which means giving a romance (and gayness) a fair chance. We watch him realize his affection and what form it can take in a truly authentic way.

This show was impossibly kind to both of its lead characters and I felt almost honored that I got to watch something so lovely and rare play out on my screen.

Also wins the best thirst award.

These were the 2 BLs that got 10/10 from me in 2023. The rest of these got 9/10 from me.

3 My School President

Thailand YouTube

GMMTV gave us a classic high school set Thai BL with tropes like messy boys singing their feelings that made this one Love Sick for the modern age with all the gentle sweetness and pining ache, but none of the dated damaging tropes or issues. Who let my BL be this wholesome and funny? My favourite GMMTV BL offering to date. And yes, I've watched them ALL.

Received the Namgoong award for best wingman 2023.

4 I Feel You Linger in the Air

Thailand grey

IFYLITA is an exquisite BL, from filming techniques to narrative framework. Steeped in history and family drama this is an elegant and classy BL. The main couple (both as a pair and individuals) were excellent, particularly Bright (Yai) whose eye-work acting style is a personal favorite of mine. It's a marker of how great it was that it's so high on my list despite the ending which was very much not what I wanted.

Additional accolade, sexiest moment of 2023 - (the oil scene).

You could try to fight me, but you'll have no grip.

5 Kiseki: Dear to Me

Taiwan Gaga & Viki

The plot is totally ridiculous and slightly unhinged. There’s a gum-ball machine of cameos, elder gay rep, great chemistry from all pairs (everyone is queer), and a KILLER side couple. It involves all the tropes under a very offhand framework of gay mafia gangs + food = love. As a result Kiseki is a poster child for Taiwanese BL, and I happen to love Taiwanese BL. Bonus? They also managed to END IT WELL, which we cannot expect from Taiwan.

Best side couple 2023!

(thank goodness Taiwan made this list!)

6 Jun and Jun

Korea Viki

A delightful office romance about an ex-idol who joins cubical life only to find his new boss is his first love. With a snappy (sometimes even raunchy) script, enjoyable sides, a pretty as peaches cast, and descent chemistry this show made up for in style what it lacked in substance. I like fluff. I loved this. I smiled every moment I was watching.

Best flirting 2023.

AKA "the tongue knows" award

7 The Eighth Sense

Korea Viki

This one is a bit chewy and sticky and less perfect than most KBLs. It’s got a bit of an age gap, country boy/city boy, stellar acting, complex characters, and leads with great chemistry and tension. This isn’t in the KBL bubble, there’s sharp edges and lots of triggers. For a BL the darkness of the content left me feeling unsettled (which is the only reason it didn't get a perfect score) but it has a glorious ending and that counts for a lot.

2023's most likely to appeal to non-BL watchers.

8 Unintentional Love Story

Korea iQIYI

The lead, Gongchan (maknae of B1A4) is a fucking GIFT, who carried this show. He was luminous with extraordinarily expressive eyes, which he used to carry a killer plot and challenging role. Forced into a totally understandable betrayal, falling in love despite himself, put into a corner he can't get out of, the AGONY, the eyes EMOTING at us in PAIN. Driven by external conflict, social tension and pressure this story seems simple but it's actually refined and quite complex. I loved this show.

Best story structure 2023.

9 My Personal Weatherman

AKA Taikan Yoho

Japan Gaga

This is classic yaoi of the kind that really only works from Japan. Basically: boys who fell in love in college end up living together but both are so repressed they actually don't realize they're in love. It's high heat is well done, but it leaned into the "why don't they just talk for fuck's sake?" which is exacerbated by the fact that they're already fucking. Sure is sexy tho.

Best use of props 2023 for the shower of sheets.

10 Our Dining Table

AKA Bokura no Shokutaku

Japan Gaga

Lonely salaryman and talented cook gets accidentally adopted by a college kid and his little brother. It’s a quiet & cozy little parable of found family alleviating loneliness. It's lovely & sweet with the romance beats used to build a family relationship, not just couple intimacy. Special.

First prize for domesticity.

11 Laws of Attraction

Thailand iQIYI

This is a great gay suspense thriller with several solid couples, fun plot, killer characters, queer rep, and a happy ending. It’s tons of fun and I had an absolute blast watching it.

Charn wins my favorite character of 2023.

12 La Pluie

Thailand Viki

This BL takes to task the fated mates trope and what it means to have love chained intimately to predestination. It’s about how faith in destiny before choice diminishes the authenticity of emotion, relationships, and connection. This is a high concept to examine through the lens of a BL. With good chemistry and decent acting all around, plus some excellent high heat and representation of consent and a few other rare tropes, this one has to (like it’s sibling show My Ride) earn high marks.

Most interesting concept 2023.

13 The New Employee

Korea Viki

So good, SO QUEER, so soft, a near pitch perfect office BL with conflict derived from that setting. Also found family and a lesbian bestie. This is what I wanted from this new crop of office set KBLs ALL ALONG. Rainbow rice cakes forever!

Best overall queer rep from Korea.

14 Step By Step

Thailand Gaga & YouTube & Viki

This was Thailand’s answer to The New Employee, and everything I loved about that show I loved about this one. This was an office romance between stern boss and sweet subordinate that felt more authentic to an office environment than previous Thai BLs of this ilk which added tension to the narrative and character development.

Chot wins best queer character 2023.

15 Love Tractor

Korea iQIYI

Most of this country-set BL had me feral for the beautiful broken city boy and his hot young farmer. Hyung romance, puppy/cat pairing, open frankness meets jaded reserve, language play, water hose frolicking, only one bed = all my favorite silly tropes.

Biggest "he so pretty" gasp of the year award.

10 Worst BLs of 2023 (that I watched)

My Blessing

My Universe: Casanova Begins

Boyband the series

Cafe In Love

Chains of Heart

Hit Bite Love

Only Friends

Senior Love Me

The Luminous Solution

The Promise

Yes, you read that right. I know I'm against the flow but I really did not like Only Friends. Everyone's taste is different.

However I DNFed faster and more BL's this year than ever before, so that means my 10 worst probably aren't quite reflective...

10 Probably Actually Worst BLs (I dropped 'em)

My Story

The Day I Loved You

Beyond the Star

Crazy Handsome Rich

Dinosaur Love

House of Stars

Mr Cinderella 2

Love Bill

Stormy Honeymoon

The Star Always Follow You

Codicils in General

I only carefully track/watch Thailand, Taiwan, Korea, and Japan. Other countries are not fully represented.

My Numbers

So my spreadsheet chronicled 138 BLs that finish airing in 2023.

101 = watched & reviewed

2 = still in the docket (WDYEY2 & Love Syndrome III)

15 = CNF (could not find)

20 = DNF (which also accounts for how few very low scores I handed out in 2023 as opposed to previous years, I just stopped watching). Speaking of which...

Ratings spread

(# of stars. #of BLs given that rating)

0 (see the DNFs instead)

2 - IT'S DEPRESSING they killed the gay, save yourself

7 - I DON'T KNOW WHAT I AM WATCHING AND NEITHER DOES IT

7 - FATALLY FLAWED but still basically BL, however… do we want to support this kind of behavior?

9 - WATCH IF YOU HAVE NOTHING BETTER TO DO but don’t expect much, it’s a total hot mess

17 - WORTH WATCHING BUT FLAWED probably around the ending or in narrative structure/cohesion or censorship

14 - RECOMMENDED WITH RESERVATIONS i.e. isn’t quite BL, convoluted, not strictly HEA, too short/long, or chemistry issues

30 - RECOMMENDED some concerns around tropes (like dub con) or story structure but still satisfies as BL

13 - ABSOLUTELY RECOMMENDED probably a few pacing issues or one flaw

2 - HIGHLY RECOMMENDED faithful to tropes, happy ending, good chemistry, few flaws, high rewatch potential

(source)

[craziestfangirl98]

I've spent the past couple of hours watching Unknown The Series. It's my first Taiwanese (as far as my understanding goes) BL. And can I just say, what a masterpiece it was. I sobbed because of it like I've not done in the past couple of years. It wasn't even for a single portion, from the first episode there was at least one scene that moved me to tears like nothing else and I adore it with all my heart. The longing, yearning, found family, unconditional love and support just everything is soooooo palpable and hurts and heals in the best way possible.

There are many scenes and portions that really stand out to me but one of them is definitely San Pang telling Lili that the person who loves Qian the most has brought him back home and for some reason it hits so perfectly because it is San Pang who was worried about how that love would be received and perceived and is now acknowledging and realising potentially how healing Yuan's love will be to Qian.

[bengiyo]

Hi Ben!

So, I'm currently working on catching up to several of the qls I've missed out on in the past 3-4 months or so in addition to the exploring indian queer media series I'm starting, and that includes watching Taiwanese bls for the first time.

But, I'm having trouble deciding which ones to watch first and which ones to shelve for later, so I'm asking you to pick for me!

I've mainly got 4 shows on my list- We Best Love, My Tooth Your Love, Kiseki: Dear to Me and Unknown. I'm planning on watching 2 of them now and keeping the others for later.

So, I'll be watching whichever two that you pick, and saving the others for later. I'm going to get around to watching them all eventually, it's just a matter of which I watch first.

Oh, and if there's a different Taiwanese bl you think I should start with, I'm open to anything. Thanks for the help!

Hello! I feel woefully deficient when it comes to Indian queer cinema. Offhand I can only recall Loev (2015) and Margarita With a Straw (2014). Please share some of your favorites!

I think what's a lot of fun about your request is that three of the shows you presented as options were directed by Ray Jiang (We Best Love, My Tooth Your Love, and Unknown). Lin Pei Yu wrote Kiseki: Dear to Me and We Best Love.

I don't think I'd recommend Kiseki: Dear to Me because it was fun as a live watch for all the crack, but it's mess of a show. It also reopened an old wound and pissed me off.

Similarly, I think We Best Love has great performances in it not supporting by the cleanest structure if we're only recommending two shows.

So, I recommend My Tooth Your Love and Unknown as your two shows to watch. I think My Tooth Your Love has solid character writing, and includes some of my favorite camerawork in the genre.

Likewise, Unknown is a solid adaptation of a mainland Chinese novel with good writing around the family dynamics and changes they face. I have strong notes about where it faltered in the end, but it's a really solid production.

Let me know what you think when you watch them!

[twig-tea]

Hi!

So Cherry Magic Thailand was amazing. Which really surprised me. I still have reservations about the next jbl adaptations by Thailand, but I guess we'll see. Anyway, because of that I have been thinking about this.

Which existing series do you think could benefit from an adaptation by a different country? That could maybe give the story a different perspective or simply because they would have different resources? Thanks

Rose💜

Thank you so much for this ask, Rose, and apologies for being so slow to answer!

The first obvious answer to this is anything from the censored era of Chinese BL being picked up by a different country. We're already seeing the benefits of that in Taiwan's adaptation of DaGe in Unknown the series, which from what I've been told is not only going to allow some intense kisses (possibly, if the actors aren't trolling us, more explicit sex scenes than are actually in the original Priest novel, though I'm not going to assume we're getting anything until I see it), but also with changes like a reduction in the homophobia of characters. Recently they announced SaYe/Chasing the Light was optioned for a film version outside of mainland China, so I'm now hopeful some of the stuff that was shelved is going to get made after all, and maybe with less censorship. That being said, a whole list of just censored dramas that were based on BL novels would be boring. So instead I'm considering what shows did I like but wanted to see done again in a different way, and which country would handle the themes and style of the original in a way that would be fun to watch?

I'm thinking about Love Stage!!! Which was a Japanese manga adaptation with a version from both Japan and Thailand, and My Dead Gangster Oppa which was adapted from a Korean webtoon, and Why R U Korea adapted from the Thai show, and how the productions in the different countries would change what we get. So, I'll be basing my answer on those as well as CMT you referenced.

[Sidenote: originally I was going to say Thailand should adapt Man Who Defies the World of BL except with Series-Y tropes and then realized that's exactly what Why R U was supposed to be in the first place--it would be neat to see a Korean version of this storyline with webtoon tropes (we kind of got that with Our Dating Sim but they went with dating game tropes instead). ANYWAY that's not really an adaptation so I'm not including it below, but putting it into the universe.]

Enough waffling, let's go!

Twig's Foreign Adaptation Wish List

Taiwanese adaptation of 2gether

Hear me out. If we're going to see this story again, I want better reasons for needing to fake date and better chemistry once they're actually dating, and I can imagine Taiwan adding in the angst and chemistry to make this show work through to the end. Taiwan would also have no problem keeping Sarawat's obsession with Tine's pecs in the storyline (critical inclusion, imho), and we know Taiwan loves a "they met before and this is fate" plot so I think this would work well. Switching Sarawat's obsession with Scrubb to something else would be a really interesting cultural shift and would help ground the series in the adaptation country.

Korean adaptation of I Can Hear the Sunspot / Silhouette of Your Voice

@absolutebl has said this before and they're right, this is the one JBL manga adaptation that I'd love to see it done again as a series with enough time to fully handle the character development that happens in the manga. NGL in my heart of hearts I'd want Japan to take another crack at it, but for this game I'll say Korea. I know Korea has a few good disability narratives (thinking of the love for Twinkling Watermelon I've heard about recently) so I think they could do a good job. Korean media also handles silence well and that's pretty critical for this one; they could also do some interesting things to illustrate the changes in the main character's hearing.

Japanese adaptation of Love Sick

I am envisioning a reverse Cherry Magic scenario, in which the foreign adaptation follows the written source material better than the domestic adaptation did, and then adds their own flair. Now take this with a grain of salt because I haven't read the novel, but my understanding is that the original Thai novel is about Pun and Noh as the main characters with the music club all there but the dramatic side heterosexual storylines are not nearly as front and center, and they were added to pad out the show because folks weren't sure how a BL series would land. I know there is already a Thai remake but let's pretend that's not happening. Japan handles earnest and sweet school-aged first loves well, and can handle the goofiness required of the Noh character, and deeply understands and portrays found family core friendships well, and I bet a Japanese production would do a great job with that core storyline. We don't get a lot of larger friend groups in Japanese BL and I want to see a Japanese production handle that. The one thing that gave me hesitation about this was the importance of the busking subplot and I don't think busking is a big thing in Japan the way it is in Thailand and Korea but that could be another opportunity for making it feel more grounded in the adapting country so I'm keeping it as-is.

Thai adaptation of Boyband Love

I'm going to steal the idea that I've seen @lurkingshan @bengiyo and @shortpplfedup mention before and riff of it to say that Daou and Offroad should be in a boyband BL; this is a main reason why I want a Thai remake of the Filipino series Boyband Love [which I don't actually recommend but, fun fact, had an out gay couple starring in it but they were not paired together in the show--Gus, who plays the lead Danny, has 2 kids with Louie who plays the side character Rico]. Thailand is clearly desperate to do a boyband BL so that they can make money off the concerts; Boyband Love as a story is already calibrated to be cheap to make because it's about a band getting ready to debut, and Thailand can scale it up from the original show. It's also no longer a period of COVID restrictions so crowds can be brought in. The storyline is pretty much what I would want of a Boyband BL: rivals within a band to lovers, pining amongst band members, underwater kiss, industry drama, and (spoilers for a 2020 series) the decision to essentially do BGP but keep their relationship secret. Thailand would have fun with that, I think. And they can add a little more heat, it's very important to me that something happens in the practice room pls and thank you.

Japanese adaptation of Middleman's Love

Japan gets two because they can do this type of comedy so well, and I really liked the bones of the Thai version so I'd love to see it done again. Japan can also handle trauma narratives so if they wanted to do both Bed Friend and Middleman Love they would be able to handle it. Korea is really good at balancing humour and trauma, but Japan is so good at losers who don't think they deserve love, and also excellent at pining, so I'm giving this one to Japan.

Korean adaptation of Triage

We're getting Korea twice because I haven't seen Korea do much in the way of genre BL yet, and while I admit this may be slightly influenced by me watching Hospital Playlist right now, Korea can handle the fast-paced ER scenes that are throughout this show, as well as the mix of drama and comedy. I'd love to see a more highly produced version of this show, and I know Korea can handle this kind of time loop shenanigans and heavenly spirits helping the protagonist along from kdramas. I liked the original a lot but I'd love to see it done again a little more tightly!

Bonus nonsense one: Taiwanese version of Calculating Love

This one is literally just for me. Ok listen I know I'm the only one who likes this show, and that's fine, it doesn't actually deserve attention. And it's so small that it would never be adapted. But I loved this dorky little short about nerds flirting with calculus and I want more. Taiwan is fantastic at dorks falling in love narratives, and so many of the HIStory series were short school BL, so I think they'd do an excellent job tightening up the story in the back half which got a bit meander-y and keeping the heat that's already there.

Thank you again for the really fun ask, Rose! 💕