#I genuinely don't think I've ever hated a villain more

[anonymouslyangsty]

I need Beatrice Omega Dead

[thestargayzingheroine]

Why A Better World is my favourite "Evil Superman" Story

So in the last two decades or so, there's been a notable amount of dark and edgy stories around superheroes turning evil and whatnot and most of them really love to do their own expies of Superman. I've never been the biggest fans of these kinds of stories.

And then there's the actual stories of Superman and other heroes being outright villains or at least just massive assholes. In recent years, this has been largely thanks to the influence of media like the Injustice Games or the Synderverse DC movies. It's... honestly become a trope I am tired of.

Because you know the damnest thing? There is a story that does all these ideas really damn well and arguably better. It is the two-parter from the Justice League cartoon "A Better World".

Now, I am aware how most people favouring the DCAU has become a bit of toxic nostalgia at times and it's something I myself am trying to work through a bit. But in this case, I do think it's the best idea of doing an evil DC story, much better and more interesting than the Crime Syndicate, who if you ask me are not very interesting, though I do remember liking the Crisis On Two Earths movie a lot, which funny enough, was originally going to be this two parter before various things led to it being canned and then later repurposed as a direct to DVD movie.

Anyway, my main crux of why I love this story is simple... The entire Justice League turns evil... and the reasons are very much in-character for all of them. You look at the scene with Justice Lord Batman for example.

As fucking evil as the Justice Lords are... Batman can't quite fully hate his alternate self for his reason for taking part in all this being basically one-step further than his own mission, that no child should ever go through what he did. Hell, I recall reading that the reason the writers had Batman drop his batarang at the end of this scene... was because he genuinely wouldn't be able to come up with an argument to that.

Superman likewise kills Lex Luthor because yeah, Luthor literally exploited the flaws in Democracy and became president of the US, threatening to kinda basically start world war 3. It's obviously horrible... but Superman is a character whose main motivation is making the world a better place. And if people who abuse the systems of power of the world are hurting people, why shouldn't Superman put a stop to that?

And yeah, Superman should obviously never kill, he's the most paragon of paragons of the DC universe, a man committed to always being better than the villains he fights... but this is him pushed to his most logical extreme. Hell, the main Superman knows this and its why Lex used his knowledge of this alternate universe as part of his plan in the season after this, to goad our Superman into crossing the line because yeah, there's a part of him that could go this far.

But right as Superman is about to apparently finish him, the big guy says this.

"I'm not the man who killed President Luthor. I wish to heaven that I were but I'm not."

Because Superman like everyone else, obviously would have those same thoughts and same urges. He's human.

I've kinda gone off Injustice a bit because to be honest... the injustice games were kinda just this but a bit too edgelordy. Hell, in A Better World, Lois Lane still lives and the whole genesis of it doesn't revolve around her getting fridged.

So yeah, A Better World is probably one of my favourite mirror universe stories because of the fact that well... it really is like looking in a mirror and seeing just how easy the greatest heroes can become evil and how they wouldn't be massively out of character doing so. But also it reminds us that as much as this darkness can tempt some of our finest, the ones who don't go down this dark path are stronger in heart than anyone else. Because when the world becomes a dark and horrible place, it becomes very easy to be just as dark. But even though it can be hard to still try and be a good person even in dark times, it's ultimately worth it. Because good always triumphs over evil.

[dootznbootz]

Odysseus was afraid the entire year on Aeaea in the Odyssey.

Content warnings: Rape, Sexual Coercion, Sexual assault, Sex Work, power dynamics, this will also be long as fuck as I talk too much. This is NOT a "Circe the Goddess Hate Post". I call her out but that's it. I tried to keep this neutral but still making a point (Let me know if I gotta put more)

Lots of lovely folks on here have written great essays on what Calypso did to Odysseus as it's soooo blatantly obvious there. It literally states how he cried every day and how he flinched from Calypso, very straightforward on how he was explicitly raped.

But I've noticed that a lot of people are always iffy about Circe's situation (understandably so, it's not so in your face.) She's usually always mentioned in the "Odysseus never cheated! He was raped!" posts but then the evidence is only ever given against Calypso, and then mentioning how you can't say no or disobey the orders of an immortal and how it was in exchange for freeing his men.

WHICH IS ALL CORRECT!!! But!!!

There ARE immortal/mortal couples who genuinely love each other. Dionysus and Ariadne, and Eros and Psyche are examples. Apollo and Hyacinthus. Psyche indeed becomes immortal eventually and in some versions, both Hyacinthus and Ariadne do too. But even while mortal themselves, their immortal lovers still remained respectful and loving towards them and definitely doted on them. There are definitely power dynamics at play here but there's some nuance.

Odysseus and Circe's relationship, however, is very different. We all know he slept with her at the very least once. And that was in exchange for his men being returned to humans. That was the only time it was explicitly stated. With Calypso, it tells you every night he was enchanted and slept beside her. It was the narrator speaking but Odysseus is the narrator now and it's his story. If you think he lied, this probably won't change your mind anyway.

But even if it was a one-time thing, (which isn't the only interpretation and I will have points that talk about others) then why did he stay a year? What was he doing?

I'm doing a deep dive into the year he spent on Aeaea based on evidence in Book 10 and then the beginning of Book 12. Step by step, and honestly I'm writing this for Tumblr, not as a thesis so I will be a bit more casual but still using sources. To me, it's very obvious that he was uncomfortable throughout the text simply based on the language that is used. But it's very subtle and not an outright statement of "He's been crying every day."

BTW, just so we're clear, this is not a "Circe is the root of all evil, etc." type of post.

This isn't meant to villainize her. She's an immortal being and in mythology that changes things. Everybody is morally gray. I genuinely think if we were to ask her feelings on it, she'd probably be like "Oh, yeah! Turned his men into pigs! Strange little man he was." I don't think she gave a flying fuck.

I just simply get pissed tf off when people think Odysseus was fine. It honestly disturbs me how often I'll go on other websites YouTube and see everyone call him a whore and a womanizer. It's sexism at its finest because 1.) "MaN AlwAyS wAnTs sEx" and 2.) women can't rape/coerce. THIS IS SIMPLY TO LOOK INTO HIS FEELINGS ABOUT IT.

This is also only for Homer's Odyssey, using different translations. If you want to discuss this, (I'd be happy to! Just be nice!) DON'T BRING UP ANY OTHER WORKS.

With all that out of the way, come yell with me 🤗

I've read multiple translations, as I know there's going to be bias depending on who's translating. And having done so, each one has basically the same situations described the same so that's nice for consistency. Also, there are some parts in the story that are vague and that we'll never have answers to.

Odysseus first simply sees the smoke from her chimney and then sends his men in, after drawing lots Eurylochus leads half of the men to check out the house. I mentioned here vaguely how the 2 immortals he sleeps with are both introduced while singing and weaving, which could be seen as an enchantment (which to me is most likely. They both possess magic and are goddesses). So I'm just gonna move past that. Just take a peek and come back or just know that enchantment was likely.

Next, I'll see people often joke on Tumblr about how

"Odysseus says that Polites is his best friend yet only mentions him once!"

I think Odysseus mentions his best friend, the one to jubilantly go in first, to show WHY he would go through with this. How much these comrades mean to him. That's his best friend, and there are approximately 20 others who are now pigs as well. Could you knowingly leave one of your best friends to live a life like that knowing you could've done something?

[...]Circe—and deep inside they heard her singing, lifting her spellbinding voice as she glided back and forth at her great immortal loom, her enchanting web a shimmering glory only goddesses can weave. Polites, captain of armies, took command, the closest, most devoted man I had: ‘Friends, there’s someone inside, plying a great loom, and how she sings—enthralling! The whole house is echoing to her song. Goddess or woman—let’s call out to her now!’ So he urged and the men called out and hailed her. She opened her gleaming doors at once and stepped forth, inviting them all in, and in they went, all innocence.

(Fagles, Book 10)

In the Odyssey, it's never mentioned why she turns people into animals. I think they were turned into pigs because, throughout the Iliad and Odyssey, Odysseus is often associated with boars. His men are associated with him, therefore: 🐖 Piggy. From what we know, the lads were just eating her food. With how much Xenia and hospitality are a large part of the story, they probably thought they were safe. They were GUESTS. This is especially welcome after the Cyclops and the Laestrygonians. And it literally says "All innocence". They were simply naive.

Then Eurylochus runs back, so terrified that he couldn't speak at first. He then begs Odysseus to just leave the men behind. Odysseus has shown that he does TRY to save his men when it is truly not reckless to do so.

But I shot back, ‘Eurylochus, stay right here, eating, drinking, safe by the black ship. I must be off. Necessity drives me on.’

(Fagles, Book 10)

Then the famous warning from Hermes. I've seen folks bring this up when talking about this. YES, he is literally commanded by Hermes to not refuse her if he wants his men back in basically every translation. It sounds like Circe was warned as well. When? We don't know, but it sounds like Hermes didn't pick "sides" here.

Strange that he was still like, "Sleep with each other" to both, because he could've been like, "Circe, there's this guy named Odysseus. When he comes to this island, change his men back." But who knows, maybe it was Circe's idea from the beginning and Hermes went along with it. Just food for thought.

Now here’s your plan of action, step by step. The moment Circe strikes with her long thin wand, you draw your sharp sword sheathed at your hip and rush her fast as if to run her through! She’ll cower in fear and coax you to her bed— but don’t refuse the goddess’ bed, not then, not if she’s to release your friends and treat you well yourself. But have her swear the binding oath of the blessed gods she’ll never plot some new intrigue to harm you, once you lie there naked— never unman you, strip away your courage!’

(Fagles, Book 10)

But that doesn't explain why he was there for a year afterward! Nor if he himself was okay with it, which is what I'm trying to delve into as he wasn't.

Also the knife thing? She's still immortal. It was meant to startle her. Her dad is Helios. Odysseus would've been toast, literally.

Also note this exchange wasn't a "Yippee! Hermes says I'm going to get laid!".

...just approaching the halls of Circe, my heart a heaving storm at every step, paused at her doors, the nymph with lovely braids— I stood and shouted to her there. She heard my voice, she opened the gleaming doors at once and stepped forth, inviting me in, and in I went, all anguish now …

(Fagles, Book 10)

Another translation by Ian Johnston, (they all say the same thing essentially but trying to make a point.)

I continued on to Circe’s home. As I moved on, my heart was turning over many gloomy thoughts. After I had walked up to the gateway                                                of fair-haired Circe’s house, I just stood there and gave a shout. The goddess heard my voice.                      She came out at once, opened her bright doors, and invited me inside. I entered, heart full of misgivings.

HE👏WAS👏SCARED! The tone is solemn and suspenseful. He was just told that without Hermes' help with the root, he wouldn't be able to survive and bring back his men. Circe was dangerous.

He made her swear not to harm him.

Straightaway she began to swear the oath that I required—never, she’d never do me harm—and when she’d finished, then, at last, I mounted Circe’s gorgeous bed …

(Fagles, Book 10)

Please note that she NEVER promised that to his men. His comrades did NOT have moli in their systems. He had no way of truly ensuring their safety in any way from Circe.

He then refuses to eat or speak, literally "lost in grim forebodings". If he "just got laid", then why isn't he happy? Not many men can say that a goddess CHOSE to have sex with them. He did it to get his men turned back. It was an exchange. I don't think Circe is "Evil" so maybe it slipped her mind. Or yes, she could've thought, "Hey, I got what I wanted. He's handsome enough. Homer never shuts up about how hot this guy is He hasn't brought up the pigs yet. I'll just let this play out. Maybe HE forgot. I don't have to do anything." We don't know. But Odysseus probably felt like he got deceived.

"Hey, I did my part of the deal. I slept with you. Now do yours."

She pressed me to eat. I had no taste for food. I just sat there, mind wandering, far away … lost in grim forebodings. As soon as Circe saw me, huddled, not touching my food, immersed in sorrow, she sidled near with a coaxing, winged word: ‘Odysseus, why just sit there, struck dumb, eating your heart out, not touching food or drink? Suspect me of still more treachery? Nothing to fear. Haven’t I just sworn my solemn, binding oath?’

So she asked, but I protested, ‘Circe— how could any man in his right mind endure the taste of food and drink before he’d freed his comrades-in-arms and looked them in the eyes? If you, you really want me to eat and drink, set them free, all my beloved comrades— let me feast my eyes.’ So I demanded.

(Fagles, Book 10)

He doesn't trust her despite what she had told him that he should when they sleep together. He has figured out that while she will not hurt him, his men were not a part of that oath, the men he was trying to protect in the first place.

She is then moved by how they rejoice when they see one another again. While turning people into animals for funsies isn't cool and coercion is fucked up, I think she comes to see this group as not quite friends but I think she did find them entertaining in a way.

This is very strange but I've seen some folks say that since Odysseus was pissed at Eurylochus for still not believing him about Circe is proof that "Oh he was trying to defend her!". Which??? Uh, Eurylochus was literally questioning his leadership as a whole. Calling him reckless and shit. He is captain and he's the King, he can't let that shit slide. The text literally says "Mutinous". Also if I had to sleep with someone I did not want to especially if it was to save my friends and I got called names afterward I'd get fucking pissed too.

Only Eurylochus tried to hold my shipmates back, his mutinous outburst aimed at one and all: ‘Poor fools, where are we running now? Why are we tempting fate?— why stumble blindly down to Circe’s halls? She’ll turn us all into pigs or wolves or lions made to guard that palace of hers—by force, I tell you— just as the Cyclops trapped our comrades in his lair with hotheaded Odysseus right beside them all— thanks to this man’s rashness they died too!

They stay a year. Again it's never stated that Odysseus slept with her that whole time. You could interpret that. (Honestly, I feel Circe would get bored with him? She's a goddess, she's got more important matters than mortal men. And she definitely doesn't love him.)

His men DO have to bring it up that "Odysseus has forgotten his native land." Maybe they thought they could sneak out without her knowing??? I am fucking REACHING but hold on as Telemachus did because he knew Nestor would well, be Nestor and try to coax him with "Have a meal with us! Let me tell you about how badass I used to be in my youth." But to sneak away from a goddess? Without her permission? That won't end too well. Aeolus in the beginning kicked out Odysseus when he tried to ask for another bag of wind. If she didn't want him around, she could literally boot him out. While she didn't force him to stay like Calypso did, she didn't "release" him either.

We don't know if they've been asking for a long time. Odysseus does say to Circe that they have been begging him nonstop, but he could also be saying that to try and convince her. He's good at persuasion. I think while he knew he could rely on her for food, shelter, and good advice, he still didn't feel...SAFE with her. I think he was possibly avoiding her personally.

I think HOW he asks her to leave is important to know as well.

...but I went up to that luxurious bed of Circe’s, hugged her by the knees and the goddess heard my winging supplication: ‘Circe, now make good a promise you gave me once— it’s time to help me home. My heart longs to be home, my comrades’ hearts as well. They wear me down, pleading with me whenever you’re away.’

(Fagles, Book 10)

Throughout all of Homer's works, the characters grasp another's knees when they are desperate and are literally at the other person's mercy. Priam did when begging Achilles for Hector's body back. The man who literally killed his son and was defiling his body by dragging it around. Leodes grabs Odysseus' knees to beg for his life before Ody kills him. If he saw her as a friend, and not a captor, WHY DID HE FEEL THE NEED TO BEG IN ORDER TO LEAVE?! No one, who is in a healthy relationship, has to BEG for permission to leave. Or to "Break up", if you interpret them as still sleeping together.

And even Circe acknowledges that he is there against his will!

‘Royal son of Laertes, Odysseus, old campaigner, stay on no more in my house against your will.

(Fagles, Book 10)

[...]Odysseus, man of many resources, scion of Zeus, son of Laertes, don’t stay here a moment longer against your will

(A.S. Kline, Book 10)

This is probably another reach that you can ignore but the whole "they wear me down", could be trying to appease her. "Look, you're REALLY cool, it's actually my crew that wants to leave hahahah please don't kill them"

I mentioned before how Telemachus snuck away from Nestor but that was simply out of necessity because he needed to go home now. Not rest for the night. NOW. Nestor is just everyone's grandpa. Menelaus kind of talked more but Telemachus is very straight up in "Please I have to go now" and Menelaus immediately got things ready for him. He never has to beg and clasp his knees. Telemachus was never afraid. Menelaus is a fun uncle and Helen is your cool auntie.

Back to Circe! She tells him instructions for the underworld, they were in her bedroom. But that might've been the only way to speak with her. As even Penelope is usually away from the suitors when they are in her halls, Circe may have done the same. The text never states she played hostess physically. If she was hosting in the halls during the day, why did Odysseus wait until night to talk to her? He could've just asked her while she was on her throne in front of everyone. (He did so with the Phaeacians)

Or maybe he went alone because she only swore an oath to not harm him and so he didn't want his men near if she decided she didn't want to let them go. I could be missing something here so feel free to say something. Idk if this was a pride thing on how "I don't want others to see me beg".

She has info he needs in order to go home as well. She tells him to go to the Underworld.

She gave him new fine clothes and put on pretty clothes herself but that doesn't mean they had sex. Nausicaa gave him nice clothes as well but he never slept with her.

Then he leaves. Immediately. Not even doing a headcount as he didn't realize one of his men had died. (That was negligence on his part but he wanted out) He booked it, to the UNDERWORLD BY THE WAY. Circe even had to sneak the animals he needed for the sacrifice. Odysseus even basically said "She's a goddess. She can do things mortals can't" at the end of the book. And it almost feels...Numb? Solemn? Neutral? Gives a "It is what it is" vibe.

But Circe got to the dark hull before us, tethered a ram and black ewe close by— slipping past unseen. Who can glimpse a god who wants to be invisible gliding here and there?

(Fagles, Book 10)

She’d slipped past us with ease, for who can see a god move back and forth, if she has no desire to be observed?

(Johnston, Book 10)

She's a goddess. She has magic. She can do whatever the fuck she wants.

NOW ON TO BOOK 12!!! That was long! GET A SNACK AND WATER! LUCKILY THIS'LL BE SHORTER!

In Book 11, Odysseus swears, upon all his loved ones in Ithaca, to Elpenor that he'd give him a proper burial as he's been "unwept, unburied". So in Book 12, he sails back to Aeaea to fulfill his promise.

But you know what's funny to me?

He didn't tell Circe he was there.

He didn't even go to greet Circe himself. He sent his men to go get Elpenor's body.

The biggest clue that he didn't love/trust her is that if she was his "Affair partner" then why not go see her for "one last night together"?

SHE came out herself and pulled him aside to know what happened and then gave more advice.

I dispatched some men to Circe’s halls to bring the dead Elpenor’s body. [...]

Nor did our coming back from Death escape Circe— she hurried toward us, decked in rich regalia, handmaids following close with trays of bread and meats galore and glinting ruddy wine. [...]

But Circe, taking me by the hand, drew me away from all my shipmates there and sat me down and lying beside me probed me for details

(Fagles, Book 12)

In every translation, it talks about how he sits, and she lounges/lies down. That's not sex 🙃 In some translations, it even says he tried to be with his shipmates but she pulled him away!

So we lay down and slept beside our ship’s stern cables. But Circe took me by the hand and led me away, some distance from the crew. She made me sit, while she stretched out beside me on the ground. 

(Johnston, Book 12)

Then, she gives advice about the sirens, Charybdis, Scylla, and her father's Cattle. He tries to ask if he could save all his men. She scolds him for even thinking he could try. He again books it out of there.

I think we all know it wasn't "love". But I think a lot of people think Odysseus was willing and happy with whatever this was. "Friends with Benefits", if you will. I guess you could see it that way but I will say that makes me feel itchy with the whole power dynamic and fear. I don't think folks who have that arrangement have to beg on their knees to ask if they can leave though.

I mean the entirety of Book 10 gives me the vibes of "Laughing uncomfortably because you don't want to upset the other person". To just grin and bear it.

A lot of this was just putting the text here and picking it apart step by step. What you do with this is up to you. It's rambling while banging pots and pans together.

Maybe you see him as drugged the entire year and still sleeping together, as the moli "wore off". Even then, just because her magic can't affect him, there are plenty of natural concoctions that can be created that can affect mortals.

Maybe you see the entire year as sex work in exchange for shelter and food.

Maybe he was just alongside his men the whole time under her roof and was avoiding her after the exchange. After he got asked by his men to finally leave, he would start to walk up to that room only to freeze and turn around, thinking "One more day won't hurt. Should wait until I know she's in a sympathetic mood".

I beg of you, however, PLEASE understand that there was fear and coercion throughout his entirety on Aeaea. He wasn't staying to get laid. While there is so much going on and too many things that are left vague to really know exactly what happened, it is consistent that he was scared/numb. Lots of people go through with things they don't really want to do just to appease others. There are plenty of situations of sexual trauma where one person goes through something and the other has no idea the other person isn't okay. ESPECIALLY WHEN SOMEONE CAN HARM THE PEOPLE YOU CARE ABOUT AT ANY MOMENT!

Sexual trauma is a very complicated thing and while he was scared, he definitely wasn't as traumatized by her as he was by Calypso. Calypso was a torturous hell while Circe was a year of walking on eggshells. Not comparable but I still think it should be acknowledged. It's wild because I read the Odyssey and kept thinking "Y'all are calling the sex slave a cheater? The guy who slept with a goddess to get his men back? The ultimate simp apparently doesn't love his wife??"

Things I'm adding that shouldn't affect the argument as it is not in the Odyssey but I want to mention as it's a "fun fact": Odysseus' dad was an Argonaut. Laertes probably met Circe as well, (or knew of her) with the whole purifying thing and maybe Odysseus heard his dad tell stories of her. Later myths also have Circe with the habit of turning her crushes (or their lovers) into something with Scylla and Picus.

In conclusion, Yeah, he was afraid of her. At least to an extent. And don't pull the whole "Ancient men didn't get raped". Male victims exist and deserve compassion for what was done to them and women are capable of sexual abuse. If you think otherwise, you are not a true feminist and Fuck you. I said in the beginning this'll be casual and I don't wanna write a fancy ending. You can still think Circe is neat but you have to know that this was fucked up.

If you think a lot of this is bullshit or wanna give more context or wish to yell with me but still know he wasn't alright on Aeaea, cool. If you want to point out mistakes or something I should keep in mind with interpretations then feel free to say so but give text evidence. If you try and bring up the Telegony and/or Madeline Miller's Circe, fuck clean off. This is Homer. If you call Odysseus a whore and not the malewife he canonically is I'll start biting. 😤

[mamawasatesttube]

Sorry, I know you don’t really like people bringing up Jason but I’m very curious. I read Straight on Till Morning several times before really joining Tumblr and I was surprised by how much you seem to dislike him compared to how nicely he was written in said fic. Is it cuz it’s a future fic so he can be more chilled out than in current comics or something?

Feel free to ignore me if you want. Curiosity does not owe me answers.

no worries, i don't mind polite questions! :P

so there's two things. a) sotm was written when the only real comics i'd read were sb94, yj98, tt03, batgirl (2000), and nightwing '96 (iirc - i might be forgetting one or two but the point is, when i was pretty new to comics). at this point wfa had tricked me into thinking jason actually had a consistent character arc that i simply hadn't read yet, and i assumed it would be weird to write a fic where dick, tim, and cass were all around as kon's friends + damian was there being jon's friend in the background, but jason didn't get mentioned, so i worked him in bc i thought that was like. gonna be weird if i didn't, even tho i didn't know what he was doing in postcrisis yet. i mostly just wanted to write about kon and did not yet have the strong "actually i do not care for 99% of post-rebirth comics" feelings i have today. if i were to do the sotm rewrite in my mind, jason would actually still be in his villain to antivillain era because that's my actual favorite era of him. i think it's fun when he's hanging around being like... a vengeful ghost who's just determined to make his problems Everyone's Problem. i'm not really interested in soft angsty daddy's boy jtodd or whatever sdkjfh and that seems to be the most popular version of him i see. it's either soft angsty daddy's boy jason or it's power fantasy cop-adjacent jason who has never done anything wrong in his life and is completely valid in every decision he's ever made. neither of these interests me.

which brings me to b) it's not so much that i dislike jason todd as a character so much as that his fans are so fucking annoying to me. that chapter of sotm? multiple people in the comments were there ONLY to talk about jason, even though the fic is literally about kon and not about jason and he just happens to appear for PART of one scene that chapter. it made me get sick of hearing about him. like theres soooo many jason todd fics out there can you go read those. i want to talk about kon! and i've had people bring him up on my completely unrelated fics too like he doesn't even get MENTIONED like one fic is about clark kon and tim, and someone was in the comments like "omg i bet clark was thinking about jason here" and i was so ... dude. read the room. or the fic even. it is not about him.

but even more than the way a lot of jason fans have this apparently compulsive need to make him the main character of the entire universe, i really can't stand how many of them i've seen spout literal straight up copaganda and/or defense of the death penalty. like they will bend over backwards so hard to defend why he was right to put 8 heads in a duffel bag or why it's morally correct to kill rapists that they start spewing right-wing talking points. and the constant need to make him the perfect imperfect victim ("he's angry and loud unlike GOOD victims--") and all of that just... it really turns me off of 99% of fan content about him that i've seen. it makes me genuinely kind of uncomfortable. like if you think there's a category of criminal that it's okay to execute (without a trial, even) i want nothing to do with you. can you guys just say it's sexy when a man is covered in blood after murdering a room full of people without having to be like "and he was right to do it too!!" because i promise he was not. and if you SAY any of this people will come up with a whole thing about how you must hate victims and/or poor people or some shit. its... really something.

all of that being said - i think there are interesting things you COULD do with his character. i think he can be a fascinating character! with stories worth telling! the family tragedy, the horror story, the vengeful ghost! but at this point with how rancid i find his fanbase i just really only want to see jason takes from people i know will not start spewing copaganda at me + people who i know appreciate tim kicking him in the balls (bc he kicked dick in the balls and tim is a bitch).

anyways. bring back tentatodd 2k25 who's with me

[astervoidtheartist]

yapper and listener duo!!

I've been so obsessed with TWDG for months and months and months on end. It's rotting my brain more than the walker corpses. I've been doodling the characters a lot lately so here's a big collection of drawings! (I love Louis so much it's indescribable oml)

(Same goes for Kenny, he's my bae)

Click read more to hear my ramblings about the art and TWDG in general lol (SPOILERS)

I genuinely am so heartbroken that Telltale isn't making anymore of these wonderful games. TWDG series is the first to ever make me sob, anytime Lee appears I do in fact cry my eyes out and it's such a beautiful story they've created here.

This may be an unpopular opinion: I do not hate Lilly. She is awful, don't get me wrong. But I love her as a villain, and I do feel sympathy for her. (Will never forgive her for Carley though, can forgive her for James because I'd rather him be dead than hate me lmao)

I went with Louis' "route" (if that's what you'd call it) because I love him but I also love Vi so I'm gonna replay the whole game to do her's. The piece where I drew them was inspired by that one scene where Louis asks you why you saved him over her and then goes on about how he loved annoying Violet and making her do that one eye roll lol

Also I love Kenny :( At the end of season 2 I had Clem and AJ go without him so I wouldn't have to see him die but I think I might replay it where we go with him so I can get just a smidge more content of him lmao.

Anyways thank you for reading my rambles, I don't have anyone to talk about this game with please suggest me to draw more people from it and yap about it to me ;(

[sexiestwerewolf]

I feel like Dumbledore has done irrefutable damage to the "wise older mentor who takes the traumatized kid under their wing" trope just because Rowling can't write father figures properly and now everyone expects every "wise old man who takes the traumatized kid under their wing" to be some inherent evil who's actually the spawn of Satan and only looking to harm said kid

I've seen it time and time again to many characters, but the ones I think of the most are All Might and Wu even though, objectively, they're great teachers and don't expect their kids to literally give up their life to stop the big bad. they made a few mistakes but literally everyone to ever exist is gonna make mistakes, but it doesn't make them bad people

in general I just really hate "character bashing" especially that of which I'll see in fanfiction and genuinely believe that if you stopped looking at all those characters through the lense of black and white and instead actually take the time to look into their characters and why they may act that way or make those mistakes and even, for fanfic writers, utilize those and expand upon them you'll find so much more depth

also usually I'm finding people giving more sympathy towards villains than characters who slighted the MC just a little bit and don't get me wrong I love my villains (huge garm fan here duh) but forgiving one but being overly critical of the mistakes of another is so weird

anyways I love my fanfiction writers who make old wise teachers flawed and human (so to speak in Wu's case) instead of irredeemable monsters who only have it out for the mc

[anistarrose]

SO as an aromantic villain liker, I have to admit that whether aro or not, there's something compelling about Philip perhaps clinging to Caleb in part because of an alienation from the Other way of acquiring a Good God-Loving Family in his day and age. because if Caleb spurns their witch hunting dreams to go fall in love with a witch that's a perceived betrayal to Philip on two fronts, the witch sympathizing and the abandoning Philip for romance. it's compelling in a "Belos selectively ignores all the norms of his own oppressive belief system that he spurns, when he could have easily found a home amongst the freaks if he let go of his hate" way. it's compelling in an "adds even more parallels to Lilith, who avoids following his path, and shows that people who start in a similar place, with both genuine flaws and genuine instances of being wronged by the world, the latter not entirely unrelated to aromanticism, are still able to find joy instead of hatred, because aromanticism is not a destiny to endlessly suffer nor a destiny to do evil" kind of way.

BUT. unfortunately. I've seen way too many posts that just spew garbage like "Belos is evil because he's incapable of love, obviously! and the heroes are good and moral and (cough) not subhuman (cough) because they actually love people 🥰," just total horseshit right at the intersection of aphobia and ableism. just a total admission that they don't think love can ever motivate people to hurt anyone, that they don't think they can hurt anyone they love and no one they love could really hurt them, that love is a get out of jail free card when doing harm while harm is a get banned from love and humanity permanently card, so. basically, we can't have nice things.

[muzsmocsing]

Reviewing tgcf characters because I have thoughts

I finished S2 recently and I need somewhere to put my not exactly hot but like warm (?) takes because it's taking up too much storage space in my brain.

🤍 Xie Lian 🤍

It's a good thing I'm not into guys because if I was I would be on my knees for this man in every sense of that expression and his pet menace to society would mince me up like garlic.

So I'll try to be brief about my overflowing feelings about him. Xie Lian is the best main character I have come across in a WHILE. He's the embodiment of compassion and kindness. And also a cold blooded murderer. A babygirl. A father figure. A terrifying martial god. A silly little guy. A pathological liar. The most genuine man you'll ever meet. He's everything, and Hua Cheng is 100% valid in his obsession. I'm right there with him.

Rating: 10/10

❤️ Hua Cheng ❤️

Idk if we ever figured out who wrote My Immortal but I'm pretty sure we have our culprit.

"Hi my name is Hua Cheng Crimson Rain Sought Flower Red-Robed Ghost King and this is my evil weapon of death E-ming. I've killed soooo many gods with it!! My dark power is I can summon storms of BLOOD and SUFFERING. I have my own scary city of DEMONS and they all love me and think I'm HOT but I only want my BOYFRIEND who's the only REAL GOD so STOP FLAMING HIM YOU POSERS-"

Needless to say I love him. Being the 8 time winner of the Loverboy of the Century Awards with unbeatable records in the yearning olympics is truly a remarkable feat.

Rating: 9/10

(Bonus: E-ming. Cute little guy. Likes his stepdad more than his real dad. Not afraid to show it's feelings even if it makes it look like a muppet, 10/10)

🧡 Feng Xin & Mu Qing 🧡

Tweedle dee and tweedle dum gets a shared rating because they would hate to be grouped together like that and that's funny to me. Their dynamic is great, they're good characters, I wasn't sure which one was which until midway through the second season. But then also I have a pair of 7yo twin cousins who I still can't tell apart despite them not looking even a slight bit similar so that might just be a character flaw on my end. Oops.

Rating: 7/10

🩵Shi Qingxuan🩵

I'm doubling the rating because she is best boy and best girl at the same time. I love that I can use any and all pronouns for him because he's literally a pride parade personified and therefore all of them are correct. You don't get that type of chaotic fun just anywhere.

He is truly living my dream, presenting as whatever gender they want depending on what's more convenient and/or funnier in the moment. Super useful, for things like gathering intel and terrorizing Feng Xin by being a woman.

And I personally think we should crown her the new emperor. She'd look significantly better on that throne, with her Barbie-like radiance and flourishing Kenergy.

Rating: 20/10

🖤 Ming Yi 🖤

Listen, I hate to say it because I like a sunshine x grump moment as much as the next gay but he's just... not giving what he thinks he's giving. Everyone is whispering ominously about him having some dark devastating secret but MY point is no matter how big his boobs are in his female form, Shi Qingxuan could do better. I'm sorry. She really could.

Rating: 4/10

💙 Lang Qianqiu 💙

Just an honest man with good intentions and a sickass fucking sword. He did NOT hesitate to attack the infamous Crimson Rain Sought Flower on SIGHT and I respect a quick decisionmaker, even if it shows some himbo tendencies. He also has the same distinct energy as Fred from Scooby Doo.

Rating: 6/10

💚 Qi Rong 💚

He's got some odd dietary and moral choices going on. Definitely. But he's just such a fun villain!!! Being Xie Lian's nr 1 source of migraines SHOULD make me like him less but I'm sorry, every time he was on screen I was LIVING. He would do numbers on reality TV. Someone put this guy on Kitchen Nightmares, I need to see him 1v1 Gordon Ramsay.

Rating: 7/10

🌚 Jun Wu 🌚

He has his emperor status & DILF card going for him but something about this man just ain't right. If he came to a party I was attending I would cover my drink is all I'm saying.

Rating: 2/10

🔥Pei Ming🔥

I don't know much about him besides he had that one shady empolyee or whatever (could not hear the plot over the deafening sound of Hua Cheng's yearning) but I'm partial to a good manwhore character. The thought of people praying to him like "Hugh Mungus, who art in heaven-" really tickles me.

I know he's probably straight but I headcanon him as at the very least bi-curious because you can't be that hot with that much game and not use it for evil. (That evil being causing large scale gay awakenings among his soldiers.)

Rating: 7/10

❓Pei Xiu❓

Unreliable, unimportant, unattractive, unemployed.

I remember not a singular thing about him besides fucking up Xie Lian's daughter's life and also being on my last nerve from the jump. If you're going to be evil at like least be memorable about it, you know? You can't be a bad person and a bad character at the same time. Pick a struggle.

Rating: 1/10

📚 Ling Wen 📚

I heard she committed some war crimes but honestly if I had to do an entire realm's tax returns by myself AND teach Pei Ming how to read (I refuse to believe that man is literate, just look at him) I would want to rage on occasion too. I hope she has a hot wife waiting for her at home to give her massages after carrying the whole system on her back all day. It's what she deserves.

Rating: 8/10

Thank you for reading!! Opinions might change once I read the books but as of now this is it. Remembering everyone's names has been a journey and a half so this post is sponsored by @kirstenly 's character cheat sheet go look at it! and everything else too!!!

[asgardian--angels]

I don't talk about this much but I'm just going to say it now.

there's something uniquely vile about being the daughter of a father who is a trump supporter. and not just a casual supporter, a full drank-the-kool-aid moon-landing-was-fake deep red neonazi maga crackpot. because I had to watch that change happen over the last decade. my father, an intelligent, introspective scientist, whose brain has essentially turned to mush and critical thinking skills shriveled up and died thanks to that orange rapist.

He has always loved me, supported me to be whatever I want to be, given me the most opportunities he could in life. He taught me to be kind, and forgiving, and to remember that we are all in this together. And now, while still claiming to feel that way, he vehemently, and viciously, spews hateful rhetoric and vitriol against women, against climate change, against democrats, against all the things I am, against the field of study I've dedicated my life, my soul to. We can no longer even have a regular conversation because all he does all day is sit online and watch trump rallies, listen to 'patriot' podcasts, and troll people on forums. He has nothing else to talk about, and cannot be negotiated with. Him and I used to love having sparring matches of wit, picking topics to debate in good faith. Now, any hint of a challenge and he becomes enraged, petty, and belittling. He somehow maintains this hypocritic fallacy in his mind that he is a good person, that he does everything to make my life better, and that humankind must come together to make a better future. Just, not *those* people, I guess, not them or them or them who aren't even people to him.

And I must occupy some gray area in his mind, Schrodinger's political prisoner. Because even though he knows I am a democrat, that I am a woman who will be affected by these laws, that I study climate change in the work that he supposedly supports, I must not be to him, one of 'those' people. I'm not like 'those' democrats, 'those' women, 'those' climate change cronies. Except when I am, because if we argue, if we discuss policy at all, I am just a girl, under his roof, and I have no idea what I'm talking about - because I'm young, because women aren't capable of understanding His greatness, because Elite Academia has brainwashed me into being a liberal. That my mom and I are ganging up on him, constantly, to paint him as the villain when he's only the victim. He's going to elect the man who will save us all, whether we want it or not. Our say doesn't matter, because we just don't understand.

I miss the father I knew. He was always petty, always ready to poke and prod - he hurt my feelings plenty, but I could deal with it. But I felt he was genuinely good at his core, that he tried his best. Now, I don't know him. I don't recognize him anymore. I've imagined so many times what I would say to him if I could give a speech, or write a letter, where he could not talk back and just had to listen. I don't know if I'll ever get that chance, or take it. But I know he has truly no idea how hurt and betrayed I am, and he wouldn't believe me if I told him. He knows no shame, and he does not apologize.

I'm not looking forward to spending the winter at home with him every day for two months. I don't see how I can look him in the eye. And how dare he look me in the eye after fucking me over.

I love my father, no matter what, and that's why it hurts me so badly to see him change into a stranger, and wonder if there was anything more I could have done to change his mind before this transformation completed. Knowing that it's not my responsibility to argue with him to try and make him see reason when he's too far gone and all it does is make me feel like shit, and yet.

I'm sorry to everyone who may relate to this within their own families. It's probably going to get worse. These men will feel empowered to speak their minds and force you to hear it. They try to provoke you, just so they can say you're hysterical or overreact as women do, when you get reasonably upset. Know that you're not alone in this, Trump has truly torn families apart in ways that I don't think will ever heal.

[exo-raskreia]

As a GojoHime shipper, what do you think of SatoSugu?

⚠️🚫 SS shippers DNI 🚫⚠️

Oof... Well, first things first, everyone has different preferences & BL is not my cup of tea. Fujos are also a toxic breed so I have no interest in engaging with them either.

In regards to zigzag (a lovely nickname given to this ship by many 🤪)... I find Get0 unappealing in general & am mostly neutral to his character. I don't get why he's so popular, lol? I personally find it almost offensive that ppl ship him with someone as handsome as Gojo. 💀

They are canonically best friends & nothing more (reiterated time & again by Gege & his affiliates). Their views didn't align in the end, hence they parted ways & became enemies. Despite this, Gojo still saw him as his best friend, a huge part of his "springtime of youth," & regretted not being able to help him back then. Get0 was also the cause for Gojo's identity crisis about being the strongest & was jealous of Gojo's strength, but certain ppl conveniently forget that 😒.

Zigzag would've been just another ship I don't pay attention to. Thank their insane fandom, especially the Get0 stans, for being the major cause of my intense dislike for this ship, however. Their toxicity towards other shippers (esp my fandom), misinformation, & misinterpretations of Gojo's & Get0's characters have solidified this ship as a MAJOR NOTP for me. I can't stand it with every fiber of my being. 😬

This meme encompasses that:

They act like they're canon when they're not. There's literally NO canon evidence to support their ship. Everything they claim as evidence has been debunked & has a shounen-esque explanation for it. They choose to ignore it, however, & it doesn't help that big accounts on Twitter, Tik Tok & other platforms use zigzag for clout & spread lies 🙄. All they really have are the three M's: mistranslations, misinformation, & misinterpretations 💀.

They can ship in their own lane but these freaks go out of their way to harrass others, even fanartists of other Gojo ships & neutral translators. Then they go & victimize themselves when they get called out 🙄. They like to act innocent & blame others but everyone knows it's always them who start things. It's no wonder they've made enemies of every corner of the JJK fandom. They may have the numbers but they're surely in the same boat as the rest of us shippers 🤷‍♀️. We're all in Delulu Land.

They hate Utahime for no reason other than that she's shipped with Gojo. You might not believe the insane things I've seen them say about her. Despite her being a minor side character, & her only screentime has been to help others, esp Gojo, they hate on her as if she was the main villain. Heck, not even Sukuna gets this much hate from them 💀. They spite-ship her with her bestie Shoko or even that bum Kusakabe just to "get her out of the way" of their mid ship but they don't actually care for either ship. They even drag Gojo thru the mud when hating on GojoHime, mischaracterizing him by saying things like he hates women 💀. They hate on GojoHime as if it was the worst ship anyone could have in JJK.

They cannot stand how popular GojoHime is, especially in Japan (according to Pixiv, they're the most popular M/F ship & #6 overall in JJK 👀).

They also have the audacity to claim they care more about Utahime than us GojoHime fans do. They say we mischaracterize her & how dare we ship her with a man she hates? Like?? Where is their Utahime content, like fanart, headcanons & theories? When do they ever talk about her unless it's to hate on her & try to discredit our ship? I've heard they even villainize her in their zigzag fics, make her OOC 💀. But they understand her better? 🙄

It really comes to show that they genuinely see Utahime as a threat 🤣. But why, tho, if they claim that GojoHime has nothing to stand on? That it doesn't make sense? 👀 Why are they so insecure if they're "so canon"?

They also feminize Get0 & have made some very disturbing posts, yet they hate on female characters? Those that "get in the way" of their non-canon mlm ships? Even Gojo self-shippers hate on Utahime but are okay with Get0? 🙄 I know this word gets thrown around a lot but these ppl are misogynists...

Zigzags should go read actual BL instead of self-queerbaiting with a battle shounen manga 💀. They're as delusional as Naruto & Sasuke shippers (and those 2 had at least a better written dynamic than Gojo & Get0 💀. Even Gojo & Sukuna had a more interesting dynamic than them imo 🤣).

It annoys me when even some GojoHime shippers include past/implied zigzag in their fics, & worse without tagging. I ignore the properly tagged ones & immediately drop the ones that aren't. I'm always on alert when I click on a fic & won't relax until I know it doesn't have any zigzag. 😕 It shouldn't be like this...

I'm also like?? You're ok with having Utahime be second choice in a GojoHime fic to a non-canon mlm ship?? I get it's the multishippers but still. 😒 Please tag them so I can stay far away from them 🙏.

Sorry for going on a full rant, haha. I really cannot stand that ship nor its shippers. This post is not about the sane shippers, btw, only the crazy ones. 😅

Anyway, Gojo likes older women & that's FACT. 😌

[lexi-the-demon-69]

Why do you hate Mystic Flour?

*Inhales* Oh my god.

Bro, the amount of beef I have with this character is unfathomable. I absolutely despise Mystic Flour for OH SO many reasons. Her entire existence pisses me off and I just can't understand why so many people like her. From what I've seen, people like her mainly for her design, and yeah, I guess it's nice. But, other than that, nothing much else but I could be wrong.

Let me just give you a list:

1.) Incredibly Difficult Obtainability Ok, I get why she's hard to obtain, but I can't help but complain about it. When she was first released, you had to pull 250 times to get the pity and, of course, I couldn't get it. Usually, I wouldn't be too mad, BUT, she is (as of now) the most broken character in the entire game and you absolutely NEED her for kingdom arena if you wanna get to a high ranking. I had to get her from soulstones and I even had to stay up ALL night at the end of her update to get the final two I needed to unlock her. I even used fucking MONEY on CRK to get this bitch and she STILL didn't come home! (For context: I'm a free-to-play player). Just goes to show how desperate I was to get her.

2.) Kingdom Arena As I've stated before, Mystic Flour is the most broken character in the game and you absolutely NEED her in your arena team if you want a high rank. Before she was released, Kingdom Arena was a pretty fair gamble. Now (and especially when she was released) this bitch is REQUIRED to have on your team, or else you won't get a high rank. To make matters worse, she has very little to NO counters! The only counter that I'm aware of is herself and that's bullshit.

3.) Her character Look, I know she's supposed to be a villain and does a pretty good job at being one. But, fuck that. She is the most boring, lamest, dullest, lifeless villain I've ever seen. I know that's kinda the point of her character, being that she is the virtue of apathy, but I don't care. I like my villains having a personality. (Shadow Milk supremacy). I absolutely hate everything that her character stands for: giving up on life because life is meaningless. Sure, life is a cycle of life and death, but it's what you do in that cycle is what truly matters. And the fact that she GENUINELY believes she is doing nothing wrong makes my blood boil. Not to mention how she "killed off" Crunchy Chip, Carrow, and the two other soldiers and used them as puppets to talk through... To spread her bum-ass ideology makes me wish that Dark Cacao should've stopped letting her talk so she can have her ass handed to her. (Side note: Dark Cacao is so patient with her, oh my god. Like, Cacao, I can appreciate you being patient. BUT PLEASE JUST SLAP THE BITCH OUTTA HER SO YOU CAN GO HOME.) Also, I know her backstory is sad, but I honestly don't care. She killed MILLIONS and you think I'm gonna sympathize with a crazy bitch like this? No thank you, I like my individuality.

------------

There's honestly a lot more that I could go on about, but I don't really feel like typing anymore. In conclusion: Mystic Flour is a fucking loser. The End.

[craftingcreatures]

So this post said it way more eloquently and comprehensively than I ever could, but I've been mulling it over for a while and I wanna talk about it anyway.

I've been watching the Owl House lately and honestly I'm kinda in love with the way the show handles redemption. I see so many people in the fandom complaining about how the multiple villain redemption arcs are unearned, or that they get forgiven too easily, but like... isn't that the whole point? Redemption isn't earned, it's given. And I love the characters in the Owl House because they are brilliant examples of this principle.

Take Lilith, for example - she cursed her sister out of petty jealousy and in doing so subjected her to a life of ostracization, broken relationships, and suffering. Multiple people got seriously hurt because of Lilith's choice, most notably her own father. And instead of owning up to her mistakes she kept her involvement secret for decades, pledging loyalty to an oppressive dictator and climbing the ranks of the dictator's private army/police force in pursuit of her own ambition. Instead of confronting her own mistakes, she tried to cover them up. She attempted to absolve herself of guilt by quietly removing the consequences of her own choices (convincing Belos to remove the curse) without compromising her own goals. And she continued to hurt people in pursuit of this goal (leading multiple coven scouts to their deaths at the hands of an eldritch nightmare demon bird worm, using Luz as a human shield while attempting to subdue Eda). So when she eventually does confront her own guilt and turns a 180 on her character, a lot of people can't quite comprehend just how quickly Eda and Luz accept her, as if forgiveness was a foregone conclusion. In fact I don't think the word "forgive" was even mentioned.

Pretty much the same thing could be said for Amity, or Hunter, or the Collector. (There are a lot of redeemed villains in this show and I absolutely love it; redemptions are definitely my favourite trope in media.) The moment a villain confronts their villainy and chooses to change their behaviour, the protagonists welcome them with open arms. Often the protagonists begin reaching out to them even before they start to show signs of remorse, like with Luz and Amity in Lost in Language, or Luz and Hunter in Hunting Palismen and Hollow Mind, or Amity and Hunter in Eclipse Lake, or Amity and Luz in Reaching Out. As I said before, forgiveness is a foregone conclusion; the only thing preventing it is the villain's genuine decision to stop being a villain (which is neatly illustrated by the season 3 finale; Luz tells the Collector that he "did good" when he tries to extend forgiveness to an unrepentant Belos, and when Belos later feigns innocence Luz and the others see right through him. Belos' repentance wasn't genuine, and so couldn't be met with forgiveness).

A kind of inversion of this principle can be seen in Luz' character arc in season 2b and season 3. Luz blames herself for Belos' meeting the Collector, leading to Belos learning the draining spell and later the Collector's awesome and uncontrolled power being unleashed on the Boiling Isles while Luz and her friends are trapped in the human realm. From Luz' point of view, she is directly responsible for the rise of a despot and the probable deaths of almost everyone she loves. And she hates herself for it. In Thanks to Them she has an outburst where she basically wishes she'd never been born. One of the most heartbreaking moments in the entire show, for me, was when Luz asked her mother "why aren't you mad at me?". She clearly expects the people around her to reject her, to hate her, to treat her with the performative expectations that she explicitly doesn't expect from the antagonists in the show, even the ones who have acted far worse than she has (see Lilith, above), and she can't understand why they don't. Luz thinks she doesn't deserve forgiveness, when she has freely offered forgiveness to everyone she's ever met regardless of whether they deserved it. And once again The Owl House displays the theme of redemption by all the people around her working to reach out to her, to give her a redemption that Luz doesn't think she's earned. Once again, redemption is given, not worked for.

Look, I make no secret of the fact that I'm a Christian on this blog. And I understand that the overlap between "people who are Christians" and "people who watch The Owl House" is probably very small. But I just can't help but see something so profoundly beautiful in this show, so profoundly Christian, because this repeated motif of freely offered redemption to anyone who wants it is a perfect illustration of one of Christianity's core tenets. Redemption is not earned - it is given. The offer of total forgiveness and reconciliation is already extended, even to the worst offenders, even before the offender acknowledges their offense. There's nothing I can do to earn it; no self-flagellation needed to prove that I'm in earnest, no great deed I have to do to convince God that I'm worthy of forgiveness. The forgiveness is already there, waiting.

Kinda makes you think, doesn't it? The Owl House is a show about witchcraft, with very prominent and positively depicted LGBT+ relationships, and with a primary antagonist who is heavily implied to be a conservative Christian. It would be hard to have a piece of media that more explicitly rejects the normal cultural values of North American conservative Christianity. And yet this show displays a better understanding and celebration of Christian redemptive ethics than a significant proportion of actual Christians. I'm sure a lot of people would clutch their pearls and call it anti-Christian propaganda, but at its heart the Owl House is built on the fundamental Christian value of radical love.

I dunno. I just really like the Owl House.

[victimsofyaoipoll]

Round 1

Propaganda Under Cut

Allura

Lots of people (myself included tbh) ship klance (Keith and Lance). In s8 the creators made Allura/Lance canon (but then they killed her off and left the ending ambiguous it was weird). Anyway the fandom treats her like she's the most terrible bitchy woman ever but all she wants to do is end the war and avenge her destroyed home planet. Yeah she wasn't always the nicest or always the best, but you could argue some other characters in the show aren't either and they aren't treated near as bad as allura. people really just hate her bc Lance liked her. I don't think allura/lance are good together, but I still liked her as a character and thought she was interesting and had a lot of growth during the show. she DEF is not evil like some people portray her as in fic or talk about her in captions on posts. I've seen people say that they HATE her and that she's the worst and I'm like ??? let her live (well sort of ig she is dead now). lots of fic writers use her as the villain which is so interesting to me bc the show literally has villains like use them. anyway allura so perfectly fits the bracket description she deserves better.

I hate to acknowledge my time in this fandom but I hate the way the fandom treated her more. Allura was treated like shit no matter what side of the Great Ship War you were on because she was always a threat to the biggest ships (klance and sheith). At best she got put into Background Lesbian or Consolation Prize Shallura (Space Mom-zoned) (She was not a motherly figure btw. She was just Black). At worst she was violently demonized for being ~racist~ (kinda not cool with the alien race that blew up her planet for a few episodes), complete with misogynistic language hurled at her (she got called a bitch sooo much). Allura was a good and cool character and the show did her dirty but the fandom was somehow worse.

i apologise for speaking the dark magicks, but amidst the voltron fandoms many, many transgressions, there were a particular subset of people who just hated this girl. the infamous klance wars of the 2010s kept this perfectly fine childrens cartoon character in the sights of shippers everywhere, and she (and her voice actress im sure) were subjected to years of petty squabble blown up to global perportions. ive seen hate, ive seen rants, ive seen fanfics that made her homophobic. girls been through the ringer, and even though voltron was never the show its fandom wanted it to be, i believe allura deserved better

Kayano Kaede

shes genuinely a really tragic character who had potential for a really compelling, effective arc concerning grief, identity, healing, and finding trust again all while going through the inherent ordeal of being 15 years old….if she werent a female character in a shonen anime 😭😭 instead she gets sidelined during the show up until her big plot twist reveal after which shes immediately sidelined again. whatever i still love her and know her to be a character of all time who has suffered more than jesus. in my experience shes perhaps the female character who like. ive seen most *obsessively* hated due to her “getting in the way” of the ship b/w the male protagonist + deuteragonist (bc of her proximity to the both of them) u woild think shes the devil incarnate and not just. 15 and traumatised 

She had a crush on Nagisa and they kissed and a lot of fans ship him with Karma so theyre mad that Kaede is there. She is super silly and nice but the fandom hates her for standing in the way of karmagisa.

she's a sweet person that was an actor and loves her sister. she is the main love interest of the main character but doesn't interact with him more than most of the other characters for a majority of the story. Often I have seen them removed from the story only to become some homophobic jerk that's desperate for the main characters love instead of letting her keep the good friendship that her and the main character had before the romance.

[lizzie-queenofmeigas]

I'm sorry, but if you genuinely still can't understand the reasons for why people hated Elena so much, after all these years, then I'm afraid you're a lost cause. All the hate, backlash, and criticism Elena received was 100% justified and deserved. She's by far the worst and most boring, bland, vapid, weakest, useless, and worthless excuse of a main protagonist I've ever seen in any movie, show, book, and media. Nothing remotely interesting or compelling about her in the slightest. She has no personality or agency, and she contributed nothing whatsoever to the show. Her only personality and the only thing she contributed was going back and forth between two brothers, constantly whining and crying and playing the victim, and being a selfish, self-centered, and self-absorbed little twat that makes everything about her and thinks the world revolves around her. 

And before you use trauma as an excuse to defend her, I've seen plenty of other female characters from other shows and movies that have been through similar or worse things than Elena did, and they were a million times better and more likable than Elena could ever be. Stop using trauma and abuse as a weapon and to guilt people into changing their opinions about Elena. Don't pretend to give a shit about victims of abuse and trauma, when I don't see any of you extending that same grace to people like Caroline, Bonnie, Katherine, Rebekah, and Vicki, who have all been through shit too, and were far more interesting and better characters than Elena were. And you hate them for the exact same reasons, just like how a lot of you hate female characters in general for trauma and abuse they've been dealt. 

So, don't act so innocent when a lot of you villainize the hell out of Caroline for being the only character on the show that actually acted like an actual teenage girl, had believable flaws and imperfections, and was actually a lot more relatable than Elena was. And when you also villainize and victim blame/shame and slut shame her for the rape and abuse she suffered at the hands of Damon. You hate Caroline for rightfully hating her rapist and abuser, and not wanting Elena to be with him. But you don't hate Elena, who's supposed to be the best friend, and clearly has no shame sleeping with a rapist, knowing exactly what he did. Makes perfect sense. 

And I will most definitely always hate Elena for her decision to kill Kol, along with thousands and thousands of other vampires in his sireline. I don't care what Kol did, she will always be a straight piece of shit and a fucking cunt for that. And the audacity she had to be mad at Stefan for sleeping with Katherine and Rebekah, when she was flaunting the fact that she was sleeping with his abusive, rapist brother? Yeah, 100% FUCK HER! She has no say in who Stefan can and can't see. 

How Elena even has fans or people defending her is beyond me. If she wasn't such a bland bitch and had an actual personality and something to offer to the story and was just a decent person in general, then people would've actually liked her and rooted for her. But she was never leading lady material. That should've gone to Caroline or Katherine, mostly Katherine. But I'd do fine with Caroline too, she doesn't need a family legacy or nothing like that to lead the show. LITERALLY ANYTHING IS BETTER THAN ELENA!

Wow. Caroline stans are out of their minds.

No, Caroline doesn't act like a normal teenager. She acts like an entitled insensitive brat. I literally never met anyone who was like her, thank god for that.

Your hate for Elena seems irrational. I understand when people don't like her, but you take it a step further.

Good for you if you hate Elena and love Caroline, but you don't need to be interacting with someone who is the opposite.

[codenamesazanka]

What do you fear the most that mhas epilogue will do and make sure to list your other fears too

Oh god.

I think my biggest fear is Deku going to visit Spinner, and Spinner will validate his ignorant, arrogant, unheroic ass. Whether it's 'Thank you for trying to save Shigaraki' or 'Sorry Tenko stayed being Shigaraki for me and the League instead of giving in to you' or 'Wow, you really are the true hero Stain saw' or 'I see that Shigaraki has entrusted his will on you, so I will cheer you on from now on'.

Of course, a Spinner who validates Deku and essentially surrenders to the Heroes' way of doing things is only a symptom of a much bigger problem that is "Silly League of Villains, Heroes were right all along, save for some tiny mistakes, and now it's time to repent and assimilate" - an overall epilogue where nothing actually changes except some people learn to feel pity and vows to be nicer. So I guess that's my true, core fear. But it's manifesting in Spinner turning into a Deku groupie. Yeah, why not befriend the guy who killed your actual friend and believe in his way of doing things that got your friend killed.

-

Another Spinner fear I have is actually Spinner becoming a 'true' spokesman for the Heteromorphs - less because he doesn't deserve it, more because it's likely that it means his 'stance' has gone to Shouji level and he's telling everyone to not be like him and instead work harder to brave being sprayed by pesticides and endure bullying. So, fear of Spinner being tokenized (again) and becoming a Shoji-like kind of Heteromorph advocate.

Like, I've always thought Spinner's 'fix' was that he should be allowed to be entirely mediocre and be treated right. Put another way, he's not obligated to be exceptional in order to deserve basic decency/proper treatment. Even the worst, most selfish, resentful, weak-quirk, intelligence D, League of Legends gamer loser you know shouldn't be subjected to fantasy racism, because no one should. If he's an advocate, he's an advocate for the losers of the heteromorphs - the weaklings, the delinquents, the criminals? But that's not a very inspiring message! Instead, Heteromorphs should shine bright - and that's the message the manga and Shouji is giving.

Also like, there's no way the new powers that be will let him near a microphone without being declawed - last time he did so, he literally started a riot. There's no way they let him talk about his true feelings - that he was empty; that with the hundreds of Heroes on TV, none gave him hope for change; that it took a most outcasts-of-outcasts Villain team for him to ever feel accepted.

Spinner being an 'advocate' I think would be more him being a cautionary tale - "don't be like me, I'm a Villain and I'm stuck in Tartarus 2.0 for life; you can fight for your rights but not like I did!" He deserves better than that. Heteromorphs deserve better than that.

My other fears

Shigaraki stays dead

Shigaraki comes back but as five-year-old Tenko, so that Heroes can 'raise him properly' to be a Hero

We learn Toga died

We learn Dabi died but Endeavor lived

We never see the MLA ever again

We don't get more Compress backstory

Moonfish gets executed

Gran Torino doesn't die

Hawks being relevant

Hawks still facing no satisfying consequences for killing Twice

Twice being remembered by no one except his killer who's still vaguely mournful about his death but it was for the greater good, he really did think Bubaigawara was a decent guy

HPSC revived

No mention of anything being done about the HATE CRIMES AGAINST CHILDREN in the countryside. Shoji's 'let's shine bright' was it.

Quirk Counseling not completely revised

Aizawa and Mic still basically cursing out Shigaraki for stealing Shirakumo from them and not realizing Kurogiri/Shirakumo genuinely cared about the kid

No one bringing up how fucked up Iron Maidens and Tartarus is.

Tartarus 2.0 is back and everything is exactly the same but the wardens are nicer because they went through sensitivity training

That ending where the manga fast toward 12 years and everyone is in extremely heterosexual marriages with children. Part of this means teenaged Kouta and Eri are hinted to be crushing on each other or something. god.

[maxwell-grant]

I'm seeing several popular react to the Penguin show with "God I wanna see Batman kick his ass in the next movie". Which, for a show about a Batman villain, is probably an indication of succeess

Are you kidding me it fucking rules, there's no "probably" here, the show couldn't possibly have achieved what it set out to do harder.

I've talked with people, as Episode 7 was coming out, that they've managed to strike this perfect balance between making Oz the fun engaging protagonist to watch, and making him a villain that we'll want to face justice, opposite Sofia who tread the line between his Batman Villain arch-nemesis as well as the closest the show has to a hero. The camera loves her, the costume designers and hair stylists love her, the showrunner calls her the hero of the show, production folks who go on the podcast talk about how she was their favorite character to work on, while Oz, the protagonist, only grew darker and more despised and more fucked-up as the weeks passed, as we sit through 8 hours chipping away at all of his fun and charm and wacko comedy antics and motivations and all the scruples and principles that he turns out to have less and less of, that become less and less useful to him, until he butchers them all in the very end along with the heart of the show.

As I saw it around week 6, by the time this thing was over, Sofia would demand to be received with tragic applause and heartbreak and whooping cheers and love, but Oswald would have the children of the world booing and hissing and throwing eggs and tomatoes at him, and then asking him to come back so they can do it again. AND I WAS RIGHT, and also I WILDLY underestimated the degree to which that would be warranted, and I certainly didn't expect that, for the first time in my life, I would be unconditionally and enthusiastically on the same side as everyone who posted that Arkham scene, where Batman picks up Penguin and smashes him against a mirror, as something Battison has to do in the next movie. I couldn't believe what a stab to the heart that last episode was.

I'l get into the specifics of why this worked more on the Episode 8 breakdown and, granted, it's a lot to conciliate still, it's genuinely a strange feeling to be onboard with everyone else who wants Penguin to be flattened and crushed and humiliated, to truly hate him as a loathsome monster for the first time ever even as I love him in so many new fucked-up ways. This is, make no mistake, the good version of the Joker's Asylum one-off, Pain and Prejudice, Bullies, all those modern stories that are ultimately about nothing more than reminding you of a super-duper serious evil bastard this funny little man is, stories I generally just find too dumb and reductive and ugly and tasteless and trying so very damn hard to be scary without working for it. This was Lauren LeFranc slam dunking everyone who's picked up this character since Jason Aaron in 2007, including Jason Aaron himself, and wherever they take him in the next movie, or if they can justify another season of this, they've fully set him up more than ever as a guy we will want to be exploded by the Batmobile, that he not only fully deserves it, but must, be defeated for good.

Beyond impressed, don't think I could have ever anticipated how much I wanted this.