#I am not tagging everyone in the panels bc this is about Jason not them and I don't want to clog tags

[xx-knife-xx]

Every time I think about Red Robin Jason I cry.

Countdown to Final Crisis #14

Countdown to Final Crisis #13

Countdown to Final Crisis #13

Robin 1993 #177

[necrotic-nephilim]

What's so fun about BruJay as a ship is Jason's sheer obsessive devotion to Bruce. Jason is possessive over Bruce, to the point he doesn't care about the deaths of others so long as he has Bruce's attention. A part of the UTRH arc this isn't talked about enough is that Bludhaven fucking explodes mid-way and Jason won't let Bruce see if Dick is alive.

batman (1940) #650

A lot of discussion about UTRH paints Jason as this anger-driven cold, calculating machine up against Bruce when it's so clear that his love for Bruce is what drives him at his root, even if he won't acknowledge it. He says it himself, he would've done anything if it was Bruce who'd died instead of him and his anger is rooted in that possessive devotion not being reciprocated.

batman (194) #650

BruJay as a ship always to be, to some level, unrequited. Even if Bruce loves Jason back in that way, he'll never be that obsessed with Jason. Jason will always view Bruce's love for Dick or Tim to be a distraction, proof that Bruce isn't dedicated enough to him. Jason has the need to always have Bruce's attention, even when it could come at the cost of Bruce's other loved ones. Something something cannibalism as a metaphor for love in how Jason wants to consume Bruce's whole existence. He can't let Bruce leave him again, can't let Bruce love or grieve anyone else. Forcing Bruce to choose between Jason and the Joker isn't just about confronting Jason's killer, it's about confronting the other person who exists as this duality with Bruce and consumes so much of Bruce's life. That's the role Jason wants to fill, calling himself Red Hood and forcing Bruce to look at what he's become. But still loving Bruce and wanting more than anything for Bruce to reciprocate that love in the way that Jason understands. I just think it's good soup and rife with Dynamics that are underexplored with them.

[ragnarokhound]

re: your tags on the jason’s anger post~

hard agree!! i will read reconciliation fics bc like… i do enjoy them getting to be a happy family/group but ultimately, i am firmly in the Jason Todd Was Right camp, &. serious work would need to be done for him to ever actually be part of the family again, bc the actual roots of his issues run DEEP. (and again! he has points!!)

and also same again on like… if i mention the batfamily dynamics in my fics, with the exception of au’s, jason’s relationship with bruce especially is still at least a little strained. he’s a member but also kind of an outsider and maybe he has complicated feelings on that sometimes but ultimately it’s bc his convictions / beliefs run deeper than his need /want of acceptance / belonging.

anyway sorry to dump a rant in your inbox but, i loved your tags & wanted to reply 💞

OUUGHH YES THO!! THANK YOU FOR RANTING, ALWAYS RANT IN MY INBOX STAY IN THIS SPACE WITH ME <333

(I'm about to have a mini-rant of my own, and disclaimer, it's largely informed by my terrible foundation of the UTRH movie + fandom osmosis + the occasional page/panel drop/arguments from other fans skdndndj sO GRAIN OF SALT THE SIZE OF RHODE ISLAND: )

Because yes yes absolutely! It would take serious work on Both sides for Jason to be brought back into the fold. They would both need to want it, and someone would have to be willing to bend on what they are ok with letting slide. Bruce would have to allow Jason his independence and divergence in philosophy; Jason would have to make concessions to Bruce's hard anti-murder stance.

There would have to be compromise, and reparations of some kind. They would have to actually talk and be able to listen. Apologies exchanged (mostly from Bruce because lmao) and a bunch of stuff people with the whole picture could probably tell me better lmao. ALL HARD ASKS

Because yes yes yes!! Jason's convictions and his beliefs ABSOLUTELY run deeper than his desire for acceptance. That's not-so-low-key the biggest obstacle for both him and Bruce in their ever reconciling. It's why Talia was able to manipulate him at all (idk the specifics of that, but details), it's why he hatched a deeply convoluted plan to get back at Bruce and the Joker and fuck over Black Mask in one fell swoop.

He wanted to confront Bruce with the consequences of letting Joker run around even after committing a deeply heinous and personal crime. Show him that taking a more intense and hands on approach and cracking down HARD on the crime families in Gotham would have more immediate results than what Bruce did. And that's not even getting into the Robin stuff yet lol

I don't personally agree per se with Jason's stance on murder and crime fighting lmao - but I also think he has a goddamn point, especially in this universe. In the world of batman, where death can be impermanent and supervillains pull all kinds of heinous, torturous bullshit, Jason has a lot of righteous and justified anger about how Bruce does things, on top of his hurt and betrayal over how both he and his death were treated.

Bruce's stance makes sense to me too, in a 'everyone deserves a second chance' and 'no one is beyond redemption' and 'its a slippery slope' perspective. But at some point you have to wonder about accountability. About what's acceptable. When the Joker is an unrepentant, murderous, sadistic criminal who has demonstrated that he cannot be adequately jailed or rehabilitated, what do you do? Do you ever give up on him? When is enough enough? Is the death penalty ever justifiable?

It's what makes Jason vs Bruce's arguments interesting and tragic to me, because from Jason's perspective, he is seeking retribution for himself as a victim. He is an avenger for victims failed by the system as it stands. And the system fails a lot of people. It needs to change. (And it's something being felt very strongly by a lot of people rn IRL which makes Jason's ideals v sympathetic.)

But from Bruce's perspective, Jason has given up. He has lost hope in the inherent goodness of people. He no longer seeks to find the good in people; he has decided that there exists instead a sharp dichotomy, that there is such thing as a bad person who deserves to die for what they've done, and for being bad. As opposed to seeing deeply injured people who need help, even when you find them repulsive. Rotten work, that.

Bruce sees the end of the path that Jason is on, and it's a bullet that Jason puts in his own brain - because if there are good people and bad people, and bad people deserve to die... won't Jason lump himself in with the bad people eventually? (I am once again standing on my 'Jason Todd wants to die on some level' soapbox)

Anyway, all this to say - there is a sharp divide in Bruce and Jason's methods/beliefs that makes their reconciliation impossible if neither of them is willing to budge. And when they both see budging as a terrible thing to do, a failure to the very people they are dedicating their lives to protecting...well.

It's gonna take a lot of angst and a lot of work.

[bonuscatart]

[Image 1 ID.

Two comic panels of Jason as Red Hood and Alfred in the Batcave. Jason crosses his arms. Alfred clasps his hands in front of himself. Jason says, "Bruce isn't going to like this." The angle changes to show them looking at large, glass tubes. Alfred says, "He didn't like it when I put your uniform up either, Jason, but I don't want him to simply bury the pain and shut himself off from everyone."

End ID. Image 2 ID.

#alfred's military background and his sudden shove into parenthood are things i think about a lot #alfred using the term 'soldier' as something honourable. as something to take pride in. #alfred putting 'a good soldier' on jason's plaque to show his care #the voice in bruce's head referring to his children as his soldiers sounding suspiciously like alfred's #bruce initially refusing to acknowledge jason's existence after his death bc it's the only way he can keep going

#& alfred saying 'i will not let you do this. if you will not acknowledge him in your daily life i will make you do so every night' #because alfred doesn't know how to acknowledge the absence of a child either #besides going about your life and praying hoping wishing that they return somehow safe and sound #but he knows how to honour fallen soldiers. #and he will help you in the only way that he can. #sorry i just have so many thoughts about this #(justice league 19)

End ID. Image 3 ID.

#this thing was my holy grail #how does it feel to be my indiana jones?? #also im thinking those tags are being way to nice to alfred #because (and this is fairly canonical) alfred has never been shown to understand how bruce grieves #in fact he and jason are pretty similar in that they do not understand bruces emotional responses to things #and because they do not understand it they do not respect it as being the correct or right response #and i dont think i need to explain why thats bullshit #do i

#anyways i think society needs to acknowledge that alfred is one of those grandparents #who’s own children have to grieve the relationship they never had before they accept the relationship they have with their own children #and bruce is lucky in that while Alfred never considered himself bruce father or father figure and made that clear to bruce #and hes unlucky because alfred was still acting as a father figure #and thats gonna fuck you up

#also ‘my son is disassociating from his son’s traumatic death so i will force him to acknowledge the ways in which he may believe himself to #be responsible for his death with a memorial that emphasizes how he put him in danger 24/7’ is a fucked up move. thats hugo strange levels #of malpractice right there #and it made bruce *worse* so like. bullshit. i call bullshit on the whole endeavor alfred meet me in a parking lot im going to deck you

#alfred pennyworth #bruce wayne #comic #reference #i am not losing this again

End ID.]

the fact that alfred was the one to put up jason's memorial is so important to me

[doctorofmagic]

was stephen confirmed to appear in the phoenix event? i wonder if marvel will bring wanda or jean/hope to this event considering... avx? it seems that the rule with wanda is that there is a lot of stuff that contradicts itself and the writers don't care about her to even learn of her powers and history and stuff bc... now we really do have plot holes regarding her birth place and her powers and her parents and everything about her early life now is a big plot hole road sorry wanda fans

Greetings and thanks for asking!

No, he wasn’t, sadly. I made a post about it when Enter the Phoenix was revealed, trying to picture his Phoenix Force outfit. I wish it was something close to Cyclops with all the black, red and yellow/orange. I’d sell my soul for it. But considering he’s just a consultant member and is rarely used, (why is he so erased lately when it comes to big stuff? Surgeon Supreme was so bad he was completely left out after it?) my hopes are not high right now.

And well... I’m not that excited because Aaron is not writing deep content currently. Of course, I’ll always cherish v4, Mighty Thor and even War of the Realms. But ever since his Avengers run started, I’ve never felt quite attached to it. Why am I still reading it? I don’t know. It has its highlights. Also I’m pretty sure he gets Thor and Stephen perfectly, but Tony? Carol? Even Mephisto is not that sassy appealing little devil that I love (Ghost Rider cancelled last run has the perfect Mephisto, thought. I love him in that run most ardently).

That said, and after watching closely what he did to Moon Knight, I’m not expecting amazing writing. My beloved boy only lasted, like, five panels in his Phoenix Force. I mean, I know Khonshu is twisted sometimes (v5, I’m looking directly at your face) but ever since he made peace with his DID, Khonshu is sort of a gray figure, not a crazy tyrant who will manipulate Marc at will. Not anymore, at least.

So yeah, considering both Marc and Khonshu were a little off, I’m afraid of what Aaron is about to do with other characters. We know the Phoenix Force corrupts people. We’ve been there a few times. So it’s probably gonna happen to everyone possessed by it.

Also, well, I don’t see Wanda or Hope in this event mostly because the X-Men, aside from Namor, are not directly involved. Also, should they appear, it would be another AvX thing. Plus, everything you’ve pointed out about Wanda and how lazy writers are when writing her. Poor child is forgotten.

I don’t know anything about these reborn Avengers but I’m pretty sure the 1,000,000 BC Avengers are part of something really important and will most definitely have a role in this mess. At this point, sadly, I gave up on Stephen having a role. He appears occasionally but that’s all. Funny thing, I always hope I’m wrong with my pessimism haha. Please ignore me, it’s just my coping mechanism.

Now, about the sexiest hosts... YES!!! YEEEEEEEES!! I agree T’Challa is the sexiest, prettiest, most handsome king in this world. I’ve been crying over his character design ever since the first concept was revealed. This is my top five Phoenix Force hosts (as in, Phoenix Five, get it? haha) that no one asked for:

1. T’Challa

2. Moon Knight

3. Illyana

4. Doom

5. Jean (both versions)

All the options above can step on me and I’ll thank them afterwards (and to one’s surprise, my decisions are entirely not reliable, I know).

Also no, I do not take criticism.

*sigh*

I really wanted to see Stephen in his Phoenix Force outfit... We could have it all, Jason Aaron... We could have it all...

Anyway, that was a long answer, I’m sorry. Thank you for passing by!

Could anyone tag me if you ever see a Phoenix Force Stephen please? Asking for a friend

[moreracquetball]

oh my GOD that idea that you just mentioned about the fan response??? would literally die for that wtf and tbh i just want to see a lot of jason and whizzer interacting because i Always live for that

Media/Fans

the media finds out about them before they’re even like officially dating. Somehow one lucky paparazzi person that is on like stealth mode gets a picture of a tender moment when Marvin and Whizzer are out together somewhere. In the picture, Marvin is like brushing an eyelash off of Whizzer’s cheek or holding his hand or doing something really sappy (basically trying to communicate to an emotionally-stunted Whizzer that hey sleeping together is cool and all, but I want to actually date you, you know). Well, the news BLOWS UP with headlines like ‘Whizzer Brown’s Mystery Man’ and ‘Playboy baseball player settling down?’ and everyone scrambles to find out just who Marvin is. Once they find out that Marvin is a divorced dad, news outlets like TMZ are flooded with headlines like (thanks to @a-lesbian-from-next-door-too for this GEM of a headline) WHIZZER BROWN WITH DILF???

Whizzer Brown secret boyfriend is the most searched thing on Google that day.

All production in the tabloid industries stops as editors bark for their reporters to dig up more on this story. Journalists scramble for any bit of info they can get on Marvin.

And here comes disastrously incorrect articles like:

Marvin was actually still married when he and Whizzer started “dating.” Whizzer was the cause of his divorce.

Marvin is like 15 years older than Whizzer and is basically using Whizzer for his money.

Marvin has been Whizzer’s secret boyfriend (HUSBAND???) for over ten years now and it’s been kept well hushed hushed secret bc Whizzer has built a brand out of Gay Baseball Player/Playboy.

Jason is Marvin and Whizzer’s adopted child.

CONSPIRACY THEORY: Marvin and Whizzer are not actually together at all. Marvin is not even gay! Whizzer just wanted to rebrand himself from “player on and off the field” and so hired Marvin to be his fake boyfriend (pretending to be “settling down”). (this prompts a startled Marvin to exclaim, “How could anyone think I was straight???” to which Whizzer dead-panned responded, “Honey, no self-respecting gay man dresses like that.”

Also consider the TMZ panel (also credit to @a-lesbian-from-next-door-too for this exchange, too)

“Marvin? What kinda name is Marvin?”

“I know. It’s such an old man’s name!”

“It’s like he was born a middle-aged dad, you know?”

“Uh, guys, Whizzer is a pretty stupid name, too. When you think about it. I mean, who names their kid Whizzer?”

“No one asked you, Brent.”

“Yeah, Brent. Shut the fuck up.”

Marvin finds out about the news bc he goes to work the next morning and some asshole coworker has taped all the headlines around his desk (the DILF headline is blown up and taped over his entire desk).

Marvin is obv pissed and lowkey anxious bc he doesn’t want this sort of attention to negatively affect him or (GOD FORBID) Jason. Whizzer himself is just a little annoyed and sees that Marvin is upset, so he tries to like make the issue go away by tweeting out: “tfw ur out with one of ur booty calls and ppl think that just bc he held ur hand u two are getting married’. And uhh, this makes the media die down but Marvin gets more upset bc hey asshole I think I’m falling in love with you but apparently I’m still just one of your booty calls, huh? And Whizzer gets mad bc Marvin is mad and he just tried to make Marvin less mad, and angst angst angst.

When they do get together, Whizzer posts a picture on Instagram of the two of them with the caption 'tfw you fall in love with one of your booty calls’. And the Internet just kinda explodes.

Fans are a little mixed. On one hand, they’re happy that Whizzer seems to be happy. On another, they’re terrified that a relationship will somehow hurt Whizzer’s playing. They then shut the fuck up when Whizzer plays the most vicious game of his entire career and just throws the best pitches and just basically almost single-handedly eviscerates the other team. At the press conference, people ask what’s up with Whizzer’s playing, and one of Whizzer’s team members just sorta smirks and answers for him, “He has a lot of pent up tension and aggression. He hasn’t seen his boyfriend in like a month [bc it’s the peak of the season and they’ve had to move around a lot to different cities and such]." 

Guys guys guys guys, I cannot begin to describe just how i c o n i c Marvin becomes so quickly. 

Because once they’re like “official,” Whizzer spams his instagram account with Marvin - Marvin in a new gifted Red Sox jersey while Jason (in his decked out Yankees uniform) glares mockingly at him; at the park during a crisp fall afternoon, Marvin breathless and red-faced and caught mid-laugh; Marvin comically but dead-seriously holding a baseball bat with a stance and grip that makes Whizzer and all baseball fans around the world weep; Marvin Jason and Whizzer, in a cheesy selfie after a really tough game; a picture of Marvin’s back as the man is hunched over an oven (this one has the caption “I love when a man puts the steak in ;) ” ); a particularly artsy one with a black and white filter, with Marvin (asleep, hair mussed, naked but only his bare arms, shoulders, and upper back is not obscured by the white sheets) asleep in their bed. The fans lose their minds over these pictures, along with the little tibits of info/stories that Whizzer shares when prompted about what a dorky/lame/baseball-hating/he-writes-me-poetry-literally-what-a-fucking-nerd that his new boyfriend is. 

When tweets and questions about Marvin keep buzzing Whizzer, Whizzer kindly asks (not forces, Jeez, Marv, don’t make it sound like I held a gun to your back) that Marvin get his own instagram/twitter accounts so they can just fawn over Marvin directly and leave Whizzer the hell alone to answer questions about baseball and photography and not about his relationship every fucking five minutes

This turns out to be a mistake. Marvin amasses ten thousand followers in six months. The guy barely even posts about Whizzer himself. He posts about broadway reviews and retweets funny cat pictures and every once in awhile, he posts partiuclarly needling things like how chess is better than baseball and he tags and @’s Whizzer in all of them. And everyone??? Loves it??? Whizzer is a little jealous at how people fawn over Marvin?? Like where’s some Whizzer love??? Whizzer is still the twunk that everyone loves, right???

Marvin is slowly accepted by the baseball wives. They’re catty and cliquish and they make Marvin’s life a living hell those first few months, but when Marvin does not take their shit and keeps pushing back, they grow to a mutual understanding that soon turns into begrudged respect that eventually turns into tentative friendship that eventually much much later turns into “if you dare utter one mean word or look at Marvin the wrong way, I will slit your throat with my sharpened, manicured, pastel pink-painted nails.” Whizzer shares one picture on his insta of Marvin with the baseball wives, with a glass of champagne in his hand and looking like he’s talking shit and the other baseball wives are laughing and eating this shit up, and he captions it: I think my boyfriend joined a cult.

The media as a whole leaves the two alone after they turn out to be just a regular couple and not that interesting?? EXCEPT EXCEPT EXCEPT (see next bullet point)

Okay, so Marvin hates baseball, right? This is established. This is well known. This is Fact. Well, after they become like “official” and the media now knows who Marvin is, news outlets start to attack him/make fun of him/crucify him for looking bored at Whizzer’s baseball games. Like he’ll have his phone out or he’ll have his chin propped up with his hand as if trying to combat sleepiness and sometimes he brings like a magazine to read and he always has that bored, vaguely pained “I do not want to be here right now” look on his face. And any time that the Red Sox makes a good play or gets a homerun, it’s clear that he’s been spacing out bc whenever the people around him start cheering, he likes jumps and does that weak, wide-eyed “Idk what just happened and i kinda want death right now but I am being supportive” clap (one time, he zoned out and Whizzer’s opposing team got a homerun, and Marvin just started meekly clapping bc he heard the crowd doing it and ESPN and TMZ and all the news outlets had a field day of making fun of him).

And the media??? is like “why are you not supporting your partner? You embarrass him by looking so bored. Can’t you learn to love the sport if you love him??” and being really bitchy about it. And Whizzer gets pissed and so goes on air during a press conference - when some smart-ass reporter tries to make a barb about Marvin looking bored and in pain - and says really bitchily, “Guys, Marvin just doesn’t like baseball, okay? Yeah, that makes him an idiot - because baseball is incredible - but it doesn’t make him a bad partner. I don’t expect him to love the things that I love. I like that we’re different, you know? That makes him less boring. Like, he goes to my games even though he hates baseball. That is being supportive. Like fucking hell, guys, I’m with him because he makes me laugh and has a great ass - not because he’s some super baseball fan.” CUE MIC DROP.

And yeah, there are homophobic reactions to the relationship. Facebook groups dedicated to it. Marvin gets hate mail and one time got like yelled at on the street. Some of the media’s stories are overtly homophobic and overly crass. It’s 2017, sure, but there are still idiots out there.

Marvin and Whizzer don’t let the attention - good or bad - get to them. They just keep being in love and posting overly sappy instagram posts about their anniversaries and poking fun at each other on twitter and the attention never breaks them.

I will posts Jason specific headcanons later but like dang, this took a lot out of me bc I have a lot of FEELINGS and if you have more headcanons about this topic, reblog and add your own bc I’m curious how you feel the media/fans would take this.