#I DO am allow to stan a villain

[sweetcloverheart]

Clover Rants Miraculously: Unearned Defeat

Maybe it's the bitter Chloe Stan in me, but I genuinely do hate how her (And Lila's, frankly) "Downfall" in S5 was never actually about her bullying victims coming together as a community/group to finally stand up for themselves, but about the writers taking every opportunity possible to mock her (and her fans indirectly) because they were that desperate to get the audience onboard with her constant on-screen ridicule. Marinette wasn't allowed to actually stand up for herself against her, to get others to stand up for themselves, to get the class and their teachers to put their feet down in face of her cruelty and commands and finally say "No. I don't care if you're going to call your dad down to have me fired/expelled/exiled. I'm noting doing what you asked. I refuse to buckle under your threats anymore. The answer is no."

Instead, it's 27 episodes (and two specials) of "Isn't Chloe so stupid and dumb? Look at how stupid and dumb she is! She's too dumb to tell Felix and Adrien apart despite being their friend for years. She's too dumb to hide the fact that she hasn't been doing her own homework since Primary. She's too dumb to know Gabriel's tricking her into taking over Paris. She can't even spell 'Democracy' or scheme without Lila needing to hold her hand! What a moron, am I right?". Her friendship with Adrien gets ended over a randomly inserted event from a year ago rather than her steadily growing toxicity that's clearly changed her from the girl he befriended years before, just so Chloe can rant and rave about how evil (and stupid) she is, too much so to even apologize. Sabrina gets downgraded from friend/lackey to punchingbag/slave with nearly zero explanation on how the transition happened, before suddenly being inserted with morals during a scheme (when the upset's clearly more about her being upstaged by Lila) when she barely showed any remorse/reluctance before now and throwing Chloe under the bus to save herself under the excuse of "redeeming herself" to prove further that Chloe is too dumb and stupid to appreciate her friends. Her father, who constantly indulged her whims and turned the whole city upsidedown in her name even when unasked, calls her "Selfish and heartless" to a close friend, and barely reflects on how he might of had a hand in how that came to be, before tossing her to her neglectful mother as a "they deserve each other" punishment for her stupidity and evil. An entirely new character is introduced specifically to talk about how evil and stupid Chloe is and blaming her for her expulsion before getting casually tossed aside. An evil version of Marinette's existence is all but directly blamed on Chloe's bullying rather than the post-apocalyptic villainous dictatorship she lives under that forbids helping people, and even then, nothing comes of the mention as it just exist to remind the audience that Chloe is evil and stupid - even in alternate universes. We dedicated a section of the London special on how Chloe's too evil and stupid to change just to have it there (instead of actual being in London so the episode name would make some sense). Her defeat doesn't come from a clever plan, or the power of cooperation, or even love in the face of difficulty - instead, it comes from spyware and the heroes deciding "Nuhuh" as their transformation timers run out and the narrative shrugging before giving them a freebie by claiming they've "Grown up" without explaining how.

Even when Marinette is finally given the chance to shut Chloe down, it just...rings hollow, because it more about making Chloe look foolish and letting us laugh at her tears than making Marinette seem strong for finally standing up to the girl who's apparently tormented her since they were in diapers and yet somehow she's been beating the blonde down for the past 2-4 seasons with minimum effort. And even, it feels unearned because not only has Marinette not been allowed to build up to her defeat of Chloe to this point, she isn't the one who took her down anyways - convenience did the job for her and she just showed up at the right time to reap the benefits.

Marinette and all the people Chloe hurt should have been given this chance to grow and finally get back their agency from her, to finally defeat Chloe on their own - but instead, they're made passive players and props to the writers personal hit pieces against the loud fan minority on twitter, because a group of adults decided their personal hateboner against the fictional child antagonist they created was far more important than the story they were supposed to tell

[anti-katsuki-lounge]

The MHA Fandom and How Minoru is written in Fanfics:

So today I wanna talk about a somewhat controversial topic. Let me preface this by saying that I am no means a Minoru Stan. I’m pretty neutral about his character but I completely understand the hate he gets due to his actions.

However, a pet peeve of mine is how people write Minoru in such a negative light that it becomes OOC, especially when they write Katsuki in an extremely positive light when both of them have done extremely shitty things. Let me break down some stereotypes that fanfic writers fall into when writing Minoru:

Homophobic/Quirkist Minoru: Something that is constantly done in MHA to villainize a character they don’t like is to make them either homophobic or quirkist when they aren’t in canon. Focusing on the homophobia part, Minoru’s a victim with this alongside other characters such as Neito and Inko. A lot of authors will write Minoru as this homophobic asshole who sprays out slurs and will bully whichever character(s) has come out. With Minoru, the idea that he’s homophobic comes from him being a sex obsessed person who’s always lusting after women. The thing is, Minoru displays absolutely no homophobic tendencies whatsoever in canon. You know who does? Katsuki. In one of the light novels, he asks Ejiro if he’s ‘into that’ with a disgusted tone when it was revealed Ejiro wore a dress once. Minoru on the other hand has never said anything negative about the LGBTQ+ community. For fics to have Katsuki be the one to defend the LGBTQ+ community and have Minoru be disgusted by it screams “let me villainize Minoru so Katsuki can look good”. In regards to whether he’d be quirkist, that’s also a resounding no. In fact, he apologizes for calling Mezou an octopus after hearing how he’s been discriminated against and tells Izuku that it was his bravery that inspired him rather than his quirk. Minoru also canonically has self confidence issues with his own quirk not being as flashy as other people’s so he’d be more empathetic towards someone who doesn’t have a quirk. Katsuki meanwhile bullied and suicide baiting someone who didn’t have a quirk because he saw him as beneath him.

Coward Minoru: Now, in canon, Minoru is more fearful than his classmates. However, fanon would have you think that he’d abandon his classmates to save his own skin. Canon once again disproves this. During the USJ, he was panicking, for a good reason mind you, but inspired by Izuku taking action even when he was afraid for his own life, he ended up aiding Izuku and Tsuyu in stopping the villains. During the Final Exam, he did initially cower against Midnight. A few moments later, he gathered the courage to not only go against Midnight, but to save his partner Hanta from her clutches. This proves that despite his fear, he wouldn’t leave someone as a result of it. You know who would leave someone? Katsuki. In the Final Exams, Katsuki refused to work together with Izuku to the point of admitting that he’d rather fail. It took Izuku sucking up to him to actually convince him to work with him. When it came time to rescue Katsuki, Izuku knew that he hated him so much that he’d never accept his hand, so he had Ejiro reach out to him instead. I don’t know about you, but I’d rather have Minoru as a teammate than Katsuki.

Now, does this mean I think fanfic writers HAVE to write Minoru in their fics? Absolutely not. Are fanfic writers not allowed to expel him? Again, no. Alongside Katsuki, Minoru’s the easiest character to expel. He’s constantly groping and harassing the female students. All an author needs to do is have one of the girls become so fed up with him that they report him to a teacher. Boom! Problem solved, and it didn’t even involve jumping through hoops to make a character look worse than they actually are. Another way you can remove him is have Shota expel him during the Q.A.T. Minoru, despite his fantastic score in the side step test, scored below the guy whose electricity based quirk can’t help him with any of the exams, the girl with an earphone jack quirk that faces a similar problem, and an invisible girl who struggled to do a pull-up. Shota could look at this, somehow notice him being creepy to one of the female students during the exam, and expel him for these reasons alone. If you wanna remove him from the story later, you can either have one of the girls get the teachers involved or you can say that Minoru decided to drop out of the hero course after experiencing the War Arc or something along those lines. Seriously, it’s not hard.

In conclusion, while I’m not a fan of Minoru, it bothers me how much people will butcher his character just to have a reason to shit on/expel him where there are perfectly reasonable ways of which they can shit on/expel a canon accurate Minoru. It also annoys me when people choose to make Minoru a worse person while simultaneously making Katsuki a better person despite both characters having done some shitty things. While it is Fanfiction and people can do whatever they want, it’s bad writing if you have to change someone’s personality to make them look bad to prop up another character, especially one that isn’t a good person. There are better ways of writing a Katsuki positive story that aren’t lazy and/or cliched.

[klonnieshippersclub]

Saying Caroline doesn't have light is rude as hell and that's why Bonnie never got a happy ending. She's a rude angry bitch and a shit friend. Klaroline supremacy>>>>

I wish Caroline stans (the toxic ones, that is) accepted that Bonnie is allowed to have feelings. She shouldn't constantly have to disregard what she feels in servitude or support of her friends. Even now, you'll see someone blame Bonnie for Caroline being turned and not coddling the girl who killed an innocent person. Carter didn't deserve to die. Bonnie holds Caroline accountable for her own actions and yet Bonnie is villainized more than Caroline’s parents, the Salvatore’s or Katherine. Bonnie is the irredeemable one here in all of this but I can go on about the entitlement when it comes to Caroline but I really don't want to. She had potential as a character but I cannot ignore that no character benefited more white supremacy and misogyny than Caroline Forbes.

Caroline is just a character and the real blame belongs to Julie Plec who used Caroline as a self-insert. Because of Julie's own racism and misogyny, it is difficult to separate Caroline from this when it is reflected in her writing. I am glad for the Caroline stans in this community who can acknowledge the obvious mistreatment of other characters only to benefit Caroline as a white woman. However, I am saddened that after almost 15 years of the show premiering, there are still toxic fans bold enough to feel empowered by the misogyny of Julie Plec.

Bonnie never got her happy ending, never got the credit she deserved by fans. Never had her own plots outside of everyone else. I have to ask how does a small ship like Klonnie or any of Bonnie’s non-canon ships have you all so threatened? Must you seek out Bonnie fans to taunt and harass when you’re bored? If you disagree with something scrolling, not interacting is an option. I know some of you like to pretend your ship and fandom was oppressed in the ways that Bonnie was. I’m sorry to tell you this that’s false. Respectively, ship whatever you like but get the fuck out my inbox. There’s been several anons left about Bonnie, Klonnie and Kat. I do not deserve harassment because you have a problem with a witch/Bonnie being paired with Klaus.

[strawberryraviegutz]

I really REALLY hate those kinds of stupid “hot take” posts. I think they’re just garbage to purposely farm more discourse to cause infighting, but I’ve been holding this in for so long and I need to get it out of my system so here it goes.

Alastor fans are allowed to dislike Valentino. Valentino was made to be a dislikable Villain while Alastor BY VIV’S OWN WORDS is a chaotic neutral antihero based off of Dexter with a moral code. Of course people are gonna like Alastor more than Valentino. The antihero/vigilante is a very popular beloved trope. I mean just look at Magneto and Venom.

You guys claim to want more nuanced characters but when we try and tell you that Alastor is more nuanced BASED OFF OF EVIDENCE FROM THE CREATOR and little possible context clues in the show we get accused of “babying/woobifying him”(as if Val fans haven’t done that to Val). This isn’t a hit piece against all Val fans/simps btw. I may hate that moth, but you guys should be allowed like him without receiving hate and or death threats.

It’s not “hypocrisy” to dislike Valentino or the Vees and like Alastor for the reasons I said above and the four of them aren’t comparable. Yeah they share some traits but overall the only thing Alastor and the Vees have in common are the mistreatment of the souls they own. Like I said, Val fans shouldn’t be attacked for liking him but the thing is…if you’re gonna preach those words then do the same for Alastor fans/simps because we get attacked too.

(Again it’s not all Val stans but it sure it a lot of them. I’ve all so seen Val haters do it too.) Yall claim not to harass people over fictional characters yet will go under Alastor posts and or discussion threads and be like “Uhm actually him and Valentino are the same🤓☝️”.

“He’s worse than Val” “Why can’t we just have a good villain” “Just accept that Alastor is a villain stop babying him” when we’re just minding our own business. Not to mention people going under fanart of Angel! Alastor and being like “erm actually he’d never go to heaven🤪”.

Along with yall bullying the hell out of Alastor selfshippers/simps and using tumblr sexyman as an insult(which reaks of internalized misogyny btw because majority of Alastor simps are women + women are always the first to be made fun of when it comes to characters that Classify as tumblr sexymen being found attractive by them or any character you personally wouldn’t find attractive.)

And yall going around and keep calling Alastor ugly under posts about people gushing about him and i don’t mean lighthearted jokes either because i make fun of the back of his head sometimes too. And full blown harassment. When an Alastor fan provided evidence of Alastor being a more nuanced character which were clips from Viv’s streams, people in the comments and qrts were being extremely rude and dismissive. It got so bad that op deleted the og tweet.

Don’t go around and claim to be against cringe culture but then make fun of people for finding Alastor attractive. And for goodness sake STOP FUCKING CALLING HIM A SLAVE OWNER. And yes he owns souls but that doesn’t matter.

Alastor is canonically half black and its overall disgusting to slap the label “slave owner” onto him knowing damn well that he grew up in the Jim Crow era of America in the Deep South of Louisiana. His existence as a mixed black person back then was basically considered an abomination. With how terrible it was for black people back then, Alastor probably bore witness to a lot of messed up shit growing up and if that’s the case then it’s no wonder he’s so messed up in the head.

This type of behavior has been going on since the days where we only had the pilot and it’s only gotten worse since the show came out. As soon as I saw that scene with husk and Alastor in hell’s greatest dad I automatically knew what was coming. I’m not saying that Alastor Is a good person nor am I saying that what he did to husk was ok. But to go after/make fun of Alastor fans,purposely denying evidence of his character while in the same breath preach against bullying people over liking certain characters makes YOU the hypocrites. So much for anti-harassment. I’m tired. Bye.

[quietwingsinthesky]

hey bug,

what do you think of

Gayest Supernatural Character, Quarter-Finals

drama and who do you believe is the truest queerest character in supernatural?

i think all spn polls drama is nonsense. it's fun until people start being actual assholes about stuff, and a poll like 'gayest spn characters' does make the worst elements of the fandom get overly aggressive trying to prove their claim to the queerest blorbo. a lot of people here have attached an unhealthy amount of their own identity to their favorite characters (and specifically, to a very narrow perception of said favorite characters) that leads to them lashing out when they feel that character disrespected, as it feels like a slight against them, personally. deeply strange and uncomfortable behavior when we should all just be talking about how crowley kisses men on screen for fun.

anyway, 'truest queerest character of supernatural' is a bit of a mixed bag because there's two options here. which character is the queerest textually, as in, was allowed to be openly queer and express queer love the longest and most often. and which character's subtextual narrative was most reflective of queerness, which is what a lot of people are arguing about the most. because you can't really argue about the first one. like. the only queer character who got to be queer, openly and constantly and for multiple seasons, make out with multiple women on screen, and not be treated like her sexuality is a joke is charlie bradbury. and we can talk about how well or poorly she's written as a character, but in supernatural, she is like a fucking lesbian beacon. and she's still bare fucking minimum in a cast whose other notable queers consist of 1) joke characters we are meant to mock for the fact that they are queer, 2) one-off characters who either die or in the case of later seasons where killing off gay people instantly because slightly less okay, do not get to express a lot of their queerness on screen before being shunted off to never scare the largely cishet audience again, or 3) villains. just like. villains. i know we love this about them, i know we're all gay little freaks here on the lucifer stan blog who enjoy that he's Like That about sam. but the fact that a lot of the villains on supernatural are queer-coded if not just openly queer is. :/ not great, folks.

and now we get to what my answer is for number 2) most subtextually queer. because like. it isn't charlie. charlie's queerness is not a part of her journey in any way. which is, kind of refreshing? but also very evidently the result of the writers not actually knowing how to integrate a lesbian into their story other than like. let her kiss women. charlie is written about as deep as a puddle 90% of the time, and that's the real crime we should talk about with her at the end of the day. getting distracted. anyway. for subtextual queerness. i mean, for me, it's sam. quite obviously, it's sam. sam the othered, sam the defiled, sam the broken and never pure. sam in his struggles trying to connect to a religion and a god who rejects him. sam who is and always will be the devil himself even when he proves that he can overcome him. sam who cannot win, no matter how quiet he makes himself and how much he acquiesces to the demands of the patriarchal family structure he's been slotted into.

hm. sam who knows he's dying, and sam who refuses to take a chance at life if it means burying everything about himself he's tried to construct and rising again as someone new.

i don't think you can honestly argue that sam's story doesn't resonate queerly. and i know this because most of the arguments i've seen against it have been "well, but sam (or sometimes "jared") feels too straight to be queer in any way". to which the only response can be THEY'RE ALL STRAIGHT. ALL OF THEM. THERE ARE NO QUEER MAIN CHARACTERS ON SUPERNATURAL. and yes, i am intentionally including castiel in there, for the people who argue his status as a main character. no. i don't think a love confession -> death pipeline is particularly compelling as a queer narrative, least of all because his potential queerness has always been treated like a joke or a reason to emasculate him, and to actually explore what it means that castiel loves dean winchester would take a much better show than supernatural could ever be. and it still wouldn't be a show that makes people happy, if it was honest, because it'd be a show about the slow and steady decline of one broken man constantly proven right about his paranoia and his abuse and his control issues, and one broken angel who has set him up as a god because he never really learned what free will was, just learned that following dean winchester means he has it.

[izunias-meme-hole]

Top 5 supervillains?

LOOK AT THIS DUDE ASKIN' ME FOR MY TOP 5 SUPERVILLAINS!

In all seriousness though, I'll be glad to indulge, though be forewarned that my top 5 consists of supervillains from Marvel and DC, so like if this seems basic forgive me but I am allowed to be cringe in this instance because I've been dragged back into full on purgatory.

Number 1. Doctor Doom -As I've said before, I've always respected Victor, but I've never been super crazy about him. His animated and game adaptations are good but not perfect, and the movies so far have failed to get his character across in a great way, so that might've been a part of why I wasn't a Doom Superfan. Though after getting back into the absurdity and impactfulslness of superhero comics, it soon hit me... Doctor Doom is a villain made for comics. He's overdramatic, grandiose, terrifying, bombastic, egotistical, pragmatic, powerful, absurd, nuanced, insecure, lonely, the whole package placed within a suit of armor and a green cloak. He's an arrogant, tyrannical, cold hearted technological and magical genius who embodies every inch of supervillainy you could imagine, while remaining a genuinely sophisticated, and honorable figure even with his history of pettiness. Overall Doom is just one big magnificent bastard.

Number 2. The Joker - The Joker is a crook who fell into a vat of chemicals and got a clownish makeover, who ended up becoming the nemesis of Batman. While the other rouges have their particular danger levels, they all have some type of cause they're fighting for or they're purely out to benefit themselves. Joker just causes chaos, death, and suffering, for the sake of his twisted sense of humor. He is willing to kill and ruin lives in the most creative way possible, so long as he finds it funny. Yet despite how twisted he is, this evil ass clown actually can be funny. Not only that, but he's the most effective contrast to Batman, even more than the other rouges. Batman is a frightening figure with a semi-demonic visage who suffered one bad day in his youth, yet he is a hero dedicated to the cause of justice and protecting the innocent citizens of Gotham City. Joker is a colorful figure with a big 'ol grin on his face and a jovial demeanor, yet he is perfectly okay with causing as much unwarranted harm to others for the sake of artistic chaos. Ultimately, the Clown Prince of Crime is a villain that's managed to last for decades, despite the ever marching clock, for these exact reasons.

Number 3. Magneto - He's honestly on par with Joker in my honest opinion, and I'm saying this as someone who's been familiar with Erik for a LONG time thanks to the X-Men films and Evolution, and has gone through his history in the comics. Magneto is basically one of the most famous examples of a "Knight Templar" in fiction, a self-righteous figure fighting for a crusade that he deems noble at any cost. As for why he feels the need to do this? He's a holocaust survivor, it's as simple as that. The comics are the legit only piece of media that go into deeper details about Magneto's life in the concentration camps and the aftermath of that hell which only led into more hell, but that's the basic gist of what makes him tick. Magneto's lived in a world where innocent people got killed because of state approval, and he's not letting that happen again.

Number 4. Loki - Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, and Larry Leibber making the norse God of Mischief, the Poetic Edda's best figure, a supervillain... wasn't a bad idea. The result of that however was a wannabe king in a silly little outfit with devil horns who also happens to be Odin's adoptive son and the brother of Thor. This is inaccurate as hell and shouldn't work, yet it somehow does. He's a delightful trickster at every turn with a lot of gears consistently turning in his head, and while in the comics he's not really a villain anymore and his (in)famous run in the MCU ended on a surprisingly high note, he's still fun. Am I overrating him? Maybe.

Number 5. Lex Luthor - Superman's biggest hater being a self-made millionaire that is the embodiment of the best and worst of humanity will never not be fitting. Though if I'm being honest, I don't feel like DC has gone far enough with Lex. Still he's genuinely a pretty good villain for the man of steel to face.

[set-wingedwarrior]

I need to talk about Adam Taurus and James Ironwood, and why they are good characters deserving of apreciation.

You see, as much as it's true that a lot of fans of their are crazy stans who see them as men who did no wrong, I don't think it's fair to get mad and attack all the people who enjoy their characters. I do enjoy them for example.

Yes, they are terrible people, but that's what makes them good characters! I love them for playing their role well, not because I condone their actions or think they are in the right!

Let's take Adam for example. I hate him as a person, while watching the show i wanted to beat the shit out of him, and that's precisely why I love his character! He gave me emotions, and played his villain role in Blake and Yang's story arcs masterfully! It's partially thanks to him and the way he played his role that their relationship got to shine this way! He is part of why I love bumbleby so much, and I can't just ignore that.

He's the victim that turned into a monster (even if we find out specifically about that very far in his story), the wronged person who took that in the worst possible way (the fact that you got influcted pain doesn't give you the right to inflict it to others). A boy who had no control over his life that decided to get revenge and control everybody else instead. It's tragic when you think about it this way, and I love that!

Or, even more clearly, Ironwood. From the beginning we see good intentions and terrible actions, that later on, under so much stress and pressure and ptsd, just made him go down. All of his faults come from a place of untrust toward others and the idea that only he could know the best course of actions, never taking into account other people and ideas. This obsession and hero complex is what leads to his and Atlas' fall and, again, even if I really wanted to bash his head for all the stupid things he did (or wanted to do), I still loved watching him play this part and fall deeper down every episode. Again, it's sad and tragic and I love it!

This isn't meant to be a full blown analysis of the characters, but I just wanted to point out that it's unfair to be authomatically hostile towards anyone who likes their characters. I understand that so many of them are people defending their actions, and it is very frustrating (and sometimes worrying) when very clear evil actions get misinterpreted or justified by someone, but it's not like everyone is like this.

They are characters, vessels to tell a story, and people aren't just allowed to enjoy a well played part, but it's actually good being able to apreciate the executions and characterization of villains! Both understanding their roles on a "technical" level, but also understanding their characterization and why they do what they do.

I love when it makes all sense, when I completely see how a character is reasoning and it's consistent with everything else around them! It's part of what I enjoy in stories, and the fact that I do have a good time watching, analyzing and understanding them, doesn't mean I am condoning their actions. Understanding and justifying are two very different things.

So, take this post as a little show of love and apreciation for Adam Taurus and James Ironwood: you are two assholes, but you are so good at that, entertaining and you played your roles well; thank you for your service in the story!

[codenamesazanka]

if mystery kid IS tenko I am betting it will be in such a way that pretty much every shigaraki stan will hate it. like geniunely a tenko who can't even remember the league. even the ones who are hoping for them to tenko don't seem to want him have amnesia or forgotten about the lov.

Yeah, hate to say that's a possibility, it could be a possibility. Deku himself basically said he can't forgive Shigaraki/grown-up Tenko who had any agency at all in wanting to be a Villain or associating with Villains or doing anything more Villainous than disliking All Might (and neither can society or the law; or the narrative, for that matter).

But a Tenko who has permanent amnesia? Can make a clean cut away from his past and his bonds? With a chance to become 'normal' (read: Hero loving)? (Basically the deal that Hawks offered Twice?) Better chance of being allowed to stay. Heck, it might even be framed as Deku being super compassionate - he shouldn't have anything to do with this guy that's associated in any way with Shigaraki because even the loosest of connection taints (and even the amnesia and losing everything that made him unpalatable can't erase that)... but he'll do it. Because he's so nice. With that drive to save that eclipses all common understanding. And that heart that believes that everyone has the same heart.

I guess this new Tenko can always go and re-befriend the captured League, but... hmm. Doesn't feel as right.

Sorry for being so pessimistic, anon! We'll call this worst case scenario. It probably can't get this bad? But we'll have to see.

[dotthings]

Here's the thing. While it's great to encourage an environment where different approaches and nuanced variances on the canon are welcomed and prompt more discussion, there comes a point where chronic negative misreadings set in, and it becomes an echo chamber. Projections. Bad faith readings. People unable to discern themselves from the characters' pov. People unable to discern between their fears on what the character's intentions/motivations are vs the character's intentions/motivations. Not all of this is on purpose. But there are some truly nihilistic, chronically negative takes, and bad faith takes, and this is something that has eaten the fandom since the beginning of the show. I'm referring here to something different than people getting pissed at a particular episode or arc--spn is imperfect and sometimes it is an aggravating text. There has to be room for criticism, and space made for people to disagree.

But room for criticism and space to disagree doesn't mean having to throw the doors wide open to every chronic bad faith, nihilistic, or highly negative reading that comes along.

There is such a thing as a canon and throwing spaghetti at the wall, and protecting it under the idea of "interpretation," when that is protecting chronically negative, worst faith readings heavily based in projections, isn't how media discussion actually should work. It gets to the point where certain chronic uncharitable readings get popularized and it results in a miserable environment where anyone who sees it differently gets driven out of fandom space after fandom space just for not hating the way others hate. It's not joyful. It's stressful.

It's not about Dabb era. It's not about S15. It's not about The Trap. It's that I've had to see this in spn fandom over and over and it's been there since Kripke era.

Just pulling out one example. The discussions over The Trap. Most takes, chronically, since that ep aired, have tipped over into either far too blaming about Dean, or far too blaming about Cas. I'm not sure which character has in fact gotten the worst most chronic unjust reading, I just know I've witnessed it in stereo, from the Cas stan side against Dean, from the Dean stan side against Cas.

It's nails on a chalkboard reading some of those takes. It was back when those seasons were airing and it is now, 4 years after spn has ended. It's a record scratch on the canon song, over and over and over. It's chronic.

And it is wrong. I'm just going to say it. Both sides have been wrong. And they are wronging both Dean and Cas and they are wronging the story told by a whole team of writers who cared about the story and the characters. I actually don't care that much what people think of me. I do have a right to assert myself there, and defend myself, but that isn't what this is about at the core.

I can't just shake this off.

Dean and Cas both deserve better and the story deserves better. They're both deeply complex characters, neither is a villain, neither is [insert whatever bad faith unfairly harsh distortion of their canon selves one side or the other tripled down in clinging to this time].

I have to triple underline how CHRONIC THIS IS. (Not just on Dean and Cas).

It's been in every era of SPN.

But right now late SPN is still a hot topic, it's the most recent, its ramifications are still rippling, it comes up most often in my orbit and pocket of fandom.

I am consciously trying to keep my own bitterness about the "antidabbnatural" chronic takes contained so it doesn't distract from the actual reasons I'm here and what I want to focus on, but sometimes it is really hard, it's like I'm never going to escape from it, and like, of course, people are allowed to be angry, at the characters or the creative decisions, but at a certain point it tips over into chronically nihilistic negative hot takes that leaves little room for anything else.

Maybe people who came in late also don't know just how bad it got during the airings of those final seasons, how much hatred there was, how many attacks there were on good faith meta writers.

I don't have spoons for it any more, so I insulate myself and curate really strictly. Even with all my curating, it's not enough. It's a cycle that's inescapable.

Can't do anything about what other people do or what their takes are on the canon, this isn't a tone police or oppressing people or saying they can't post whatever the heck they want. I'm saying I'm allowed to have feelings about it and react to chronically negative takes.

I also am fed up with people having to apologize for liking S12-15.

Anyone who doesn't like that I actually appreciate the work of the writers room and the end results that wound up on screen, that I don't hate that era, that I've had my own grievances with it, but also have with Carver era, Gamble era, Kripke era, is just going to have to cope.

And let me make this completely clear: Dean is my favorite. He's been my favorite since episode 1 aired. Dean's been the character whose pov I consider first since the beginning. That doesn't mean I don't relate to or feel for Sam or Cas's pov, this is me being realistic and honest about being a Dean fan--not in the sense that I only care about Dean, in the sense that Dean has been my heart center of this show, and the most dominant lens of my entry point into the story. Not the sole entry point. But my heart center. I've been an spn fan for almost 20 years. Dean is my very favorite. That doesn't mean I have to throw other characters under a bus and capitulate to what bitter Dean stans think I should capitulate to.

And one of the reasons I like the final seasons is Dean's arc.

It is because of Dean. It's not despite how Dean was treated, I like it anyway. It's because of Dean. Because of his storyline. Because of the compassionate, painful arc the canon took him through.

I have seen "antidabbnaturals" go off on why they hate those seasons and they shout about how Dean was portrayed, treated, and depicted, and it puts flames on the side of my face because they are being reductive and insulting. Not the canon. Stans. Or it's Dean stans or it's Cas stans, going on another bashfest against Cas or against Dean.

But I want to make this absolutely clear, my so-called "apologism" for those seasons isn't about Destiel. It's because Dean's story, most of all, that I find it compelling. There are things I wished had been done better, or more completely, things that got short-changed. Mostly that concerns the ending, and I'm also not saying there are no problems at all. But I'm absolutely exhausted from seeing Dean's arc attacked by "Dean stans" and I'm exhausted from the cycles of Dean bashing or Cas bashing and exhausted from writing/episodes I really love being ripped to shreds, chronically. Non-stop.

It went on for four seasons in a row of non-stop hate and 4 years after spn ended I recently got a reminder it's all still out there. It's not that everyone involved was being that chronic or that hateful, but there's always an inevitable chain reaction and it brought the old hatred to the yard. I had to block more accounts. I'm just so done with it.

Anyway, this is my personal perspective. What people do with it isn't my problem. But I really needed to say it.

[tiredhawks]

I've seen a comment before that was "how is Hawks even top ten?" on a clip of him saying he's not great against power types. It made me want to chew through a brick wall.

Hawks helped like 7 different situations in the back of his mind while having a conversation with Endeavor- a conversation that was crafted on lies to trick him into a fight. A fight that he was setting up with Dabi as he worked undercover with one of the most dangerous villains in Japan. In said fight he saved like 50 some people in an instant from a collapsing building, literal seconds of decision making and execution that went perfectly, and then fought to keep more civilians safe and then proceeded to be the hell Endeavor needed to win the fight.

Hawks works as a rescue hero. He also works as a detective, seen in the movie. He got the 1a students help before a single other person realized they were in danger. Hawks works faster than any of his sidekicks can help at all. Hawks works faster than a camera can keep track of.

Hawks fought Dabi, his greatest weakness, in a closed area, while also dealing with Twice, and came out successful although with injuries. And then with this injuries, he gets back to work before he can even talk. Planning and strategizing.

With four feathers in his back, he is still working. He's there for Nagant. He plans on how they're going to take down AFO, and then proceeds to show up to a fight against one of the greatest villains in history with nothing but two swords. And he does it, he breaks AFO's mask into pieces with two basic ass swords, and shatters a sword in doing so. He forced AFO into a bad position and is now facing him with no feathers left and one sword. What does he do? Immediately thinks to start distracting him with talking and that's where we leave it off.

I so, so, so, desperately need Hawks to be done justice here. I need Horikoshi to pull through and allow Hawks to do what he needs to do here, whatever that is.

Because Hawks is an insanely amazing hero. The way he got here was horrible, shouldn't have happened, and shouldnt be praised, but that doesn't change what has happened. Without the work he did, the message he got out that Dabi literally admitted to never expecting, he enabled all of Japan to survive. We saw what happened, can you imagine what would have happened if Hawks was not involved here and the PLF and Shigaraki completed every preparation and instigated the attack on their terms? With the completed high ends? With Twice? That'd be it for real, no doubt. Deku would not even be ready to handle Shigaraki at all. Hawks allowed for that.

So as the chronically, terminally, embarrassingly down bad Hawks stan I am- I need people to stop dismissing him. What he did was absolutely crazy. Goddamn. I don't care if you don't like Hawks, but that doesn't change all he's done. Hawks is the youngest hero to reach the top ten, and he literally saved Japan.

[lazulifoster]

We Need To Talk About Micah Bell

I want to get this off my chest: Theres a lot of talk about  “Micah Bell Bad” “Liking Micah is a red flag” “I HATE HIM” “I can’t respect people who like him” “I don’t see the appeal”

FULL STOP

You know what’s a red flag to me?  When people get sanctimonious about a FICTIONAL villain.

I like Micah. Do I love the actions of Micah Bell? (Genocide, femicide, grand larceny, sadism, misogyny, racism, arson, vandalism, etc) Clearly not--as a woman and an indigenous Chicana, I would never allow someone like Micah Bell in my presence, let alone speak to me. But lest we forget,  MICAH IS A FICTIONAL CHARACTER IN THE RED DEAD UNIVERSE I am allowed to appreciate a phenomenally written and complex villain like Micah,

I am allowed to think his long, blond, messy hair and voice are attractive! I am allowed to thank the stars for Peter Blomquist’s masterful acting which brought to life one of the most divisive characters of all time. I just hate seeing people enjoy things--hell, even write things for Micah--and get absolutely bombarded with “Well I’M a good person because I don’t like that character and you’re BAD if you disagree” I won’t stand for it when people will bend over backwards about how Dutch or even Arthur are inherently better characters to appreciate. UMMMMMMM????? DUTCH? Arthur is different, CORRECT, because he redeems himself at the end but lets not pretend he wasn’t a jerk for the beginning of the game (Downes, anyone?)

BUT DUTCH? The man who left Arthur to DIE ON THE GROUND? Who picked Micah above reason and his own chosen family that he knew for years? Dutch, the true villain of both Red Dead 1 and 2? No shade for liking him but lets call it like we see it--If Micah is so bad, lets keep it real and acknowledge everyone (EXCEPT TILLY, LENNY, AND BB KIERAN) were not perfect angels. Look--Y’all don’t have to agree, not even expecting you to--but I’m honestly so bored of people stanning other characters who are just as bad or worse than Micah Bell but don’t receive backlash for it? If people were condoning these actions in real life, yeah--I’d have a big f*cking issue with it, but fiction is meant to be a safe space, isn’t it?  If you don’t like something, I certainly won’t force you, but my goodness, leave the sanctimonious, holier-than-thou b*llshit at the door please. Its a videogame about thieves and murderous cowboys for goodness sake.

[manytoonepoet13]

HERE. AND. NOW. As a proud MEROLD and CIELOMORT stan. Why do you guys love to villainize these two??? ESPECIALLY CIELOMORT I genuinely do not see why they would have some sort of villainous intent.

Merold might be impure, yes. He lies through his teeth just to get what he wants. But what does he want? His lord's happiness. For no one to ever cross My Melody. And yes. I am aware how Your Melody is inspired by Little Red Riding Hood...

“Quote from 4games: While it matches the worldview of "Fragmem", there is also a way of depicting it from a different perspective. I thought that the Lord is "My Melody" and the title of this song is "Your Melody" was very tasteful. Conversely, I would like to hear how the song was created. Murakami: In terms of the lyrics, first of all, there is the choice of words that are inspired by the motif of "Little Red Riding Hood" that you just mentioned. "Whisper" is also an expression that means "don't be fooled by what the wolf says". Also, the repeated phrase "why" in the latter half is a phrase that comes from "Little Red Riding Hood", such as "why are grandma's ears so big" and "why is her mouth so big". We will be depicting what kind of person Merold is in the voice drama, but I wanted to make this song meaningful by releasing it before we know that. I'm sure that the listener's feelings will change as the story progresses.”

While I do agree that the expression that is "whisper" may be suspicious on it's own. If you look at the bigger picture, you may see that the wolf isn't representing Merold, but I'd say his fixation. I believe so because such expression was used in these lyrics:

“The fairytale of that day you told me about... The pleasantly soft and sweet whispers, Just listen to them carefully, don't get flustered now.”

To which was then followed by the line:

“It'd okay to be deceived with an outright lie... because within it lingers a quiet love.”

Further emphasizing the point that he's doing what's to be considered bad things, but for the greater good.

And Cielomort's the same. I would even go as far as to say the reason why he may be acting suspicious is what I like to call my Vessel Theory where Cielomort wants to utilize his body to be a vessel for all the negativity, and the essence of everything each kingdom loves in order to lure the SEEDS to him, therefore allowing him to eradicate all of them at once.

Hints of his impending sacrifice is scattered throughout Aozora no Memory, particularly showing in lines such as:

“Look, for you, I'll become the blue sky.” “I wish to share it all with you, it would be nice if I could be within that “everything”. But it's alright if your sky continues to remain blue.” “Even though things may change during these dizzying days... Leave only your smiles, for I will tuck away your loneliness into those clouds.”

(DOES THAT SOUND LIKE A VILLAIN PLANNING A CONTINUOUS SPREE OF SENDING PEOPLE SIX FEET BELOW???)

Though they don't have villainous attempt (as of now or most probably ever) I can indeed say what they're doing is not good; to deprive the people of truth is akin to a body without a soul.

Even though I'm quite set with this idea, I do want to read your thoughts. Maybe I might change.

But the only thing I'm suspicious of Cielomort is his descent six feet below...

[linnorabeifong]

I am wrong to believe that Varrick/Zhu Li is very rushed, and thus at best is toxic?

Cause I understand that TLOK had a very troubled production, but it seems odd that after essentially getting treating like shit for three seasons by Varrick, Zhu Li is fine with marrying Varrick just shortly after standing up for herself for the first time in their (platonic) relationship, no?

No same. Okay I dislike Varrick he’s funny and iconic sure but an ass, a shit person. In my eyes, he’s the ultimate villain. He’s a war profiteer. He literally bombed an art center and (attempted to) kidnapped a president to fatten his coffers and stole from Asami. He gets away with it all by running away, to Xafou. What a cop out. He treats Zhu Li horribly. He’s not likeable. He literally used Bolin. ( he also let sexual harassment fly on set poor Ginger) Took a sweet unsuspecting kid under his arms and used him to pump out propaganda. then he betrays Su by joining Kuvira and once again betrays his city by creating a weapon of mass destruction.

He is never called to account and no one really gets to express their anger towards him.

I love Zhu Li. But she has no self-respect. May be the reason she was his assistant, the whole time, and put up with all of it was because of her underlying feelings. I feel like it’s great that she stood up for herself, and their relationship could be cute if more time was taken to work on the problematic bits.

you are completely right to call out this weird relationship and others are right to enjoy it. Glad we agree it’s weird. The first time I watched the show I was confused by the wedding.

I think the reason they were married is because the show runners wanted a really happy final episode that really provided a sense of closure. What better way than a wedding ? But they couldn’t do that with any actual major characters, so why not just throw Zhu Li and Varrick together ?

maybe he’s better in the comics .

but in my honest opinion, he’s just as bad as Kuvira and it’s so hypocritical that he just gets to scamper off to a luxurious honey moon while she’s under house arrest.

[again this isn’t hate towards Varrick fans I’m literally a Kuvira Stan and am down bad for the bitter middle aged woman with anger issues who yells at dogs. You’re allowed to enjoy villainous characters. Fiction and reality are separate yada yada. ]

[mytragedyperson]

Thoughts I had while reading TCF/LCF chapter 16

Quick note before I begin – the reason I call it TCF and not LCF is because that’s technically what I’m reading. I’m currently reading it on EAP. If there’s an official English version I can read feel free to point me in the direction of it but, since TCF is what it’s called on the site I’m reading it on, that’s probably what I’ll refer to it as. If this is a problem, please feel free to unfollow or block my posts but I don’t really refer to the book’s name at all in the actual posts though I do use names like Beacrox and stuff. I’m hoping this isn’t a huge problem for anyone, but I just thought I’d put that out there. This applies to all posts I make about TCF so I won’t repeat myself. As far as I know, there is no official translation, and it feels slightly wrong to use LCF because that’s not what the version I’m reading is called. This probably won’t change unless there’s an official English version. Just wanted to put this out there for those who care about this. Without further ado, I present to you, my thoughts

That right there, Cale’s “who will go if I don’t” perfectly sums up this character and why he does the things he does. Why does he mess with the white star so much? Who will if he doesn’t? why does he loot so many places? Who will if he doesn’t? why does he save so many people? Who will if he doesn’t? that might actually be one of the most consistent parts of his character. He does these things because, if he doesn’t, who will? No one else is gonna save the Black Dragon, or Paseton. They might try, if they knew but they don’t. so who will if he doesn’t? no one. And that’s not acceptable to him. This isn’t to say he’s the only one who would or could help people, just that, in most situations, he’s the only one who can.

And Venion is officially present. Wish he wasn’t but he is.

The fact that this utter waste of oxygen is considered a typical, authoritative noble is really sad. No wonder their world is doomed if this is a typical noble.

I feel like most villains are at least slightly smarter than Venion, honestly. Maybe not necessarily in this novel, idk about that, but villains in general. Most of them would know not to try and tame a dragon. I feel like that’s pretty basic common sense. You know what, yes, even the villains in this novel are probably slightly smarter at least. Even the bandits I was making fun of last chapter were smarter, though not by much. They had no way of knowing this carriage belonged to a noble travelling with a Choi Han and an assassin and a torture expert. Usually having the numbers game is an advantage. But my point is they didn’t know these things. Marquis Stan and Venion know this is a dragon, that’s the whole point. That makes them a lot dumber than the poor bandits who just chose the wrong carriage on the wrong day, imo.

One thing I do admire about Cale is his patience and ability to keep a calm ead even in front of something like Venion. I can’t call whatever he is a human, but calling him garbage or even human garbage is an insult to garbage and, considering OG Cale is supposed to be considered trash, that just feels more wrong. So Venion is a lot worse than living garbage, but calling him a monster feels like giving him more credit than he deserves and also is offensive to monsters so idk what he is. Also can we just think for a second about the fact that, in this novel, in this world, someone who drinks a lot and trashes places, has a worse reputation than the people torturing a baby dragon and watching it for amusement. Now, I know they’re not exactly adverting that fact but most people know he crippled (am I allowed to say that? Is there a better term? Idk, sorry) his older brother, and yet somehow more people hate or look down on OG Cale than Venion. Again showing that the typical nobles have some serious issue and skewed perspectives and priorities. You can do a horrible thing and everyone know you were responsible but, as long as you have status, power and appear like a normal noble, well, that’s just how it is. All this to say fuck Venion Stan, Marquis Stan and anyone who allies with him. Taylor is the only good person in that family and idc what anyone says about that.

Also I know the man was tortured but I don’t remember Choi Han punching him, and if Choi Han didn’t punch him, I think he should have, as a treat. He deserves it. Both of them do.

And nobles are supposed to have class and care for their people. I guess we’ve both been disappointed today. If someone has clearly fallen and you can see that, you stop. Get your head out of Venion’s ass. You can kiss it all you want, he’s still not going to respect you. sorry, I know he’s like a servant or something but that doesn’t make what he’s saying less asshole-ish. This is why we don’t associate with Venion. We become assholes if we do.

Also I know this isn’t the time but can we just take a second, before Venion or his lackey piss me off again, to admire this relationship, dare I say friendship, between Hans and Choi Han. The way he cares for him and doesn’t want him to get in trouble. I feel like Hans is definitely cheering him on on the inside and agrees with him but can’t say anything due to being a servant for the Henituse family. Hans and Choi Han friendship. I wish we saw more of this. I hope we do as the novel goes on, even if it's just a little. I want them to be besties. Idek why.

You know, I feel like it would be so easy for people to look at Hans and just see him as dumb or something but he’s not. It’s not his fault no one tells him anything. He actually has a decent amount of knowledge on things, like the noble families and what he says about the rock towers and stuff. He’s not dumb, he’s just working with the information he has.

So they were trying to get Choi Han in trouble, right? And it probably would’ve worked, except Cale saw everything and is a generally good person so agrees with Choi Han’s actions… except doesn’t this look worse for Venion? Like, another noble, and someone travelling with that noble, who is known for being trash, shows more care and compassion for this guy than Venion. It definitely reflects badly on the Tolz family, or at least it should, that a noble from another territory, who is known for being trash, is kinder and less intimidating and cares more about your people than you do. Like, I know this is unlikely but I feel like, if ever this bar/inn owner heard someone talk trash about Cale he’d be like idk he isn’t that bad. You know he actually stayed here once, one of his guards saved my life, and would kinda defend him a little, but he wouldn’t do that for Tolz. If a good way to tell what nobles are like is to look at how people in their territory act, then the fact this guy wouldn’t defend Venion or Tolz from criticism but arguably would defend Cale says more about Venion and Tolz than anything really. Especially after Cale becomes Young Master Silver Shield.

I may be wrong but this is the first time we see Cale actually mad/genuinely annoyed by someone right? For all he says Hans annoys him, he’s actually never seemed particularly annoyed at Hans. And everyone/everything else he’s been more surprised or scared than mad. He wasn’t even annoyed when he was brought to this world. On one hand I get it, I’m angry at Venion too. I just think it’s interesting to note.

Cale really thinks about everyone, even this old man.

Idk why but Something about Cale right now, the way he tells Choi Han to calm doen is so attractive to me. Maybe it’s how calm and level headed he is, maybe it’s how in control he seems. Idk. Also not important but in my head I don’t see red haired Cale Henituse, I see black haired KRS and idk why.

You know who I think of when I remember Venion? Years ago, when I first got Facebook I’d stumble across photos of like hunters posing with animals they’d just killed and looking so proud of themselves, and it always just filled me with anger and confusion. Like, I’m not a vegetarian or vegan but something about that just seemed so wrong to me. Venion reminds me of a worse version of those people. So pleased to see an innocent animal hurt and proud of themselves for having something to do with it.

When I tell you that reading this man’s torture/punishment scene will be so satisfying to me. He deserves so much worse than he got.

No he stole the carriage. He’s never even heard of Count Henituse. And those knights are paid actors. Why do people insist on asking obvious questions? To start conversation? There must be a better conversation starter than that. Honesetly how Cale hasn’t rolled his eyes at this amazes me. He doesn’t even think the sarcastic thing. I simply couldn’t do that.

I think Venion has bigger problems than being rude.

It makes sense that most people would just naturally be disgusted by him actually. Humans in general typically have fairly good instincts. We can kind of sense when others are terrible human beings. Obviously it isn’t perfect but it is there. The people who follow him probably either fear him or are just as terrible but if most people hate him, it’s probably not just because he’s rude. Venion would probably be too arrogant to pretend to be someone he’s not, so his bad traits would be fairly obvious and I think, when someone is this horrible, they can’t fully hide it anyway. He may not be advertising the Black Dragon thing but there is so much wrong with him and he has so many bad traits it would be impossible to hide them fully, if he even bothered to in the first place.

I don’t get how he’s convinced himself any version of Cale is somehow worse than him. The worst thing OG Cale did was probably what he said to Choi Han, that didn’t happen this time, so the worst he’s done is get drunk and trash some bars and shops. Meanwhile Venion has permanently injured and plans to murder his older brother, and is regularly entertained by a child, no, a toddler getting tortured. He needs to be smacked back down to, well, not earth, whatever their world is called.

Again, still don’t get how Venion would ever look like the better or superior one in this situation. His carriage nearly ran someone over, his lackey berated the person who saved the guy they nearly hit, and then he randomly tried to start shit with another noble and insulting him in public, when the other noble hadn’t actually said or done anything to anyone. No matter how you put it, Venion is the asshole in this situation, and everyone would see that so idk what superiority he thinks he’s showing here.

See Cale gets it. Why ask something you already know about? Oh so he can point out Cale is trash. pOk the trash is still like the least problematic person in this situation so really it just makes you look worse. Btw not saying Choi Han is problematic or anything, hopefully you get my point, it’s a rare occasion of Cale being the best behaved from the outside. Is behaved a word? If it wasn’t it is now.

Idk I think Cale’s doing pretty well at being a noble and this type of talk. If that was me I’d just be rolling my eyes every time Venion spoke.

Also fuck Marquis Stan. He’s just as responsible for Taylor and The Black Dragon and is a shit father and noble. He should’ve been tortured just as much as Venion. Idc.

Is the three other children including Taylor? Because if not 3 siblings and either none of them know or none of them care about the dragon being tortured. I’d like to give them the benefit of the doubt but idk if I can.

Ok so it doesn’t include Taylor.

And none of them care that the oldest brother was crippled by their other brother? Not one? Man, what is up with this family? Why do they all suck so much? Taylor deserves batter.

Imagine if KRS was transmigrated in the Stan family instead. He’d hate them so much but I feel like their downfall would come even quicker, and he’d still help Taylor and Cage because he doesn’t want to be the Marquis. He could even tell them about the black dragon to help Taylor take down his family. And he’d still be in the capital so be able to help with the plot. Can’t decide how he’d get the Shield, but idk, could be fun.

Kinda love how he refers to it as our family already. That’s cute.

Tbf I don’t think nobles not wanting to Take / associate with Deruth’s territory has much to do with it being greedy, because even if it would be greedy, what are the chances the other nobles would all care. It’s probably more to do with the Forest of darkness. Whoever’s responsible for Henituse territory is responsible for watching the Forest of Darkness and, let’s face it, most nobles won’t want that responsibility. Like looking greedy might be some nobles’ concern, but at least one noble family wouldn’t care about that.

This bitch really had the audacity to try and compare himself to Basen? Please those are two completely different relationships. Basen isn’t a complete psychopath/narcissist. And for that matter Cale isn’t Taylor. And did he really just try to call Taylor the trash eldest son and himself the pretty smart younger brother? God he’s delusional. It’s so much worse than I remembered. Delusional, arrogant, dumb, pathetic, horrible. There’s not a single good quality about this guy. Also claims he’s smart but doesn’t realise that Cale dislikes him, dare I say hate him, more than he hates Cale, but that could also be arrogance so idk.

If Venion didn’t like me and compared me to Taylor I’d take that as a huge compliment actually.

Hate to point this out again but he failed to appear as a proper noble when his carriage nearly ran someone over and his lackey blamed that person. Doesn’t seem very proper to me but what do I know? Maybe that is proper behaviour.

Also all these people just heard you call this man a waste of time and an obstacle. I know that some rich people do see poorer people like this but surely this is one of those things that, as a noble, you’re supposed to think but not say out loud? I know they’re not your people but it still seems wrong. Also wouldn’t it appear to most outsiders that he only told his lackey to stop because he realise another noble was there and he wanted to look good in front of him. Again, there’s no way Venion actually realistically comes out of this looking morally better or superior in any way to Cale.

You can practically hear the disgust in Cale’s thoughts. That’s truly impressive.

Don’t worry Venion. Cale did a very good job of teaching his people that distinction. Although his idea of people who have a right to walk this earth may differ from yours. Also again he just very publicly stated that this man, who hasn’t actually done anything wrong, doesn’t have the right to walk the earth or whatever… because he’s not a noble I guess?  Honestly, can you imagine a noble in our world saying this shit like in present time? I mean not much would happen lbr but everyone would at least be like we hate you, that’s a disgusting thing to say.

Also is now a good time to admit I have no idea how nobility actually works and therefore have no clue of the hierarchy?  Ok so google has informed me that Marquis is higher than Count and now I’m sad that a dragon torturer has a higher rank than Count Henitus, and say what you want about him, but at least he actually cares about his people to the best of his ability with the knowledge he has.

That’s offensive to dogs. At least sometimes when they yap it’s for a good reason, usually not but sometimes. (I’m not hating on dogs, I love dogs, I have two dogs, but they do tend to bark for no reason)

I don’t think there’s actually a word for how much I hate this man. Hate and despise come close but feel too weak a word. loathe maybe but every time I think of the word loathe or loathing I think of the song from Wicked, and that song could so easily go the complete opposite direction. Maybe abhor but again these words feel too weak. They don’t fully capture the anger, the disgust, the complete inability to find even one good thing about him.

What I’d give to see Choi Han punch him, just once.

The Tolz family also seem like idiots but they also seem too pathetic to actually hate? Like they just go along with keeping a dragon on their territory and letting the Marquis torture it there? Dumb, dumb as hell. I’d feel sorry for them but they brought it on themselves and so instead I look about them in about the same way I imagine most people look when they see Florida Man in the news, just a why would you do that? Confusion but still more angry than I probably would be at most Florida men or similarly stupid people in the news. A more confused version of the anger I feel when there’s a child abuse story in the news and one of them is like oh but I didn’t abuse them, when there is proof they knew it was happening and were fine with it/amused by it/encouraging it or just didn’t care. You know what I change my mind I do hate the Tolz family, just less than Marquis Stan and Venion. But yeah fuck the Tolz family too. Being pathetic and dumb is no excuse honestly.

Cale needs a reward  or something purely for not punching this man.

Also can we tak a second to discuss the difference in anger and how it’s expressed by Choi Han and Cale. The best way I can put it is Choi Han’s anger is like fire, right? It’s heated, passionate, comes on and spreads quickly and suddenly, is very destructive, hard to stop and contain, though it can be, and is harder to hide. Cale’s anger is like water, like the ocean. It’s cold, he looks very calm on the outside, so you don’t realise he’s angry, but under the surface he’s raging. I’ve always thought the ocean was beautiful and at the same time thought it was one of the most terrifying things there is, and not just because I can’t swim. With fire, the danger is there, it’s obvious, you know it’s dangerous, you know if you touch it you’re gonna get hurt, you’re gonna get burned, and that leaves a permanent mark. But the ocean isn’t like that, the danger isn’t as obvious, at least if you can swim, you could go in the ocean a million times and be just fine, and then one day you get stuck in the wrong tide, and you try to fight against it but you can’t. and there’s so much we don’t know about the ocean, so much mystery surrounding it, a lot of stories, some true, some not true. And the most dangerous thing about the ocean is how peaceful it looks, how calm, how it lures you in. even though I know I can’t swim, I still feel the urge, when I see the ocean, to just jump in, even though I know that would be a very bad idea. A lot of this applies to Cale, there are a lot of stories and rumours about him, he looks more calm than he is, he draws people in, a lot of those people survive and are just fine, but some get dragged away by the tide. The thing is fire and water, with all these differences, still have similarities: they both can hurt/kill you, and they can both be suffocating, and they’re both pretty to look at but can hurt you if you’re not careful. And that just feels so similar to Choi Han and Cale to me. Plus Cale managed to calm Choi Han down, a bit like water can douse a fire and put it out. Cale is water, Choi Han is fire, they’re both forces to be reckoned with and Venion pissed both of them off. He played with fire multiple times but he also earned the ocean’s fury, and an angry ocean… well, we all know how terrifying, how dangerous, that can be. This turned out more poetic than I intended so I’m gonna go ahead and move on.

Again he’s awfully judgy for someone who gets his kicks from torturing a 4 year old.

Cale subtly messing with Venion by purposefully using the hand he helped the old man with to shake Venion’s hand. Also the fact Cale is more disgusted to touch Venion and Venion doesn’t realise it.

also is the lackey a servant? I thought they were but idk. Oh well, not important

Cale’s ability to say these things without giving away that he’s lying is truly impressive.

Oh good, Venion’s gone. I apologise that this one is more angry/less positive. I just can’t stand Venion or people like him.

Cale: lowkey rants about everything wrong with the interaction with Venion

 also Cale: I’m not that angry though

maybe not angry necessarily but he is very much disgusted. Even then he is a little angry, which is fair

again don’t get how exactly Cale would look bad in this situation, especially when compared with Venion

honestly Choi Han and Cale’s conversation here is actually great. Cale almost comforts Choi Han, and shows that he understands how Choi Han feels and where he’s coming from, and he agrees with him. He validates Choi Han so much but his plan to destroy Venion is different. Choi Han could and would beat Venion up, maybe even kill him, but Cale, Cale takes the things he and the Marquis care about the most, their status, their power, their image, their money. For people like Venion and the Marquis that’s much more devastating than a beatdown they could recover from and use as ammunition. And then he doesn’t even really ask or demand Choi Han helps him, he offers, gives him the chance to decide or agree to help on his own, and it’s such a subtle difference, but an important one nonetheless. Also don’t think either of them realise but they’re already besties at this point.

Choi Han is such a delight

Here’s the thing, Cale was already pissed at Venion before they even met and now he’s made him even angrier. i don’t think anyone can help him now. Like he was already beyond help but, now, it’s not just I’m going to punish you for what you did to Raon. It’s I’m going to do that and I’ll enjoy every second of tearing you apart and watching you be clueless I’m responsible until it’s too late. God I love that version of KRS Cale. Kinda want a dark Cale fic now. Not necessarily a villain but also kinda. Same Cale, just wants his people safe, but if anyone regardless of the side their on messes with his people they get the same treatment as his enemies, whether they’re a hero, villain, neutral. And where he enjoys bringing them down as well. Idk the idea of dark KRS Cale is so interesting to me. And slowly the characters around him become just as dark. Like he simply can’t lose anyone else so if anyone poses even the slightest threat to his people, they’re very quickly dealt with. Anyway not important

[shadowqueenjude]

nothing makes me sadder than seeing writers that i like (their series/work) doing bad things...

i so get why you turned off anon now, this harassment is nuts bro, i think they just cling to an idealized version of azriel where he's brooding and dark but like a secret softy or something and significantly less weird and horny. I've been there man (not with azriel, i am sick of azriel fics, i need less prominent characters, give me an aramantha fic i want her i can fix her)

they're mad cuz you're attacking their idea of him but also idk why their mad when they are defaming elain. i am an elain stan, i am an elain lover she deserves at the very least to be allowed to do more but like at least she knows what she wants and will stick to it.

archeron sisters with better guys 2024 please i beg of you

(btw did you see copypastus' art for today, i think we need to talk about it I'm literally screaming and in love with all three of them suddenly i think i can fix them)

Classic bs in a fandom where the women get vilified for the same shit the men get glorified for. Weird too, because what the fuck has Azriel even done to deserve so much love? Personally not much of a fan of his character trope because it's so overdone, but there are so many characters of this trope who just pull it off better. An example can be found within one of SJM's own series, in fact! Lorcan in TOG pulls this shit off wayyyy better than Azriel. I mean if you're going to harass me, do it over an interesting character goddamn lol.

(yesss i loved copypastus's villain art today!)

[sonicanvas]

i've seen more people hating on jin to lift up liu kang and ryu tho.

hell on his birthday, people still shat on him on r/Tekken and other places like twitter. I'm a diehard Kazuya and Sasuke stan, even fucking Sasuke Uchiha gets more respect and love than Jin at this rate (for one, he wasn't disrespected on his own birthday by the naruto fandom on reddit). I've never seen a fandom hate and spite their own protagonist more than the tekken fandom - some people even suggested either kaz or lars would be a better mc or something.

Well...that's a yes and no.

Keep in mind that I am not actively participating on Reddit discourse(it is not accessible in my country without VPN and the government is trying to ban the use of VPN so...).

I can see that people hate on Jin since Tekken 6 happened, and it is justified. But saying that he is the "bad" protagonist is not entirely true.

Also to keep in mind that being a protagonist doesn't mean the protagonist has to be "the good guy". That's like saying Mikasa or Armin should be the better protagonist than Eren just because he is morally questionable at one point in the story.

To what it is worth noting, as of recent stories I took with Jin, I could safely say that he was the "good" Mishima, but he's not overall the "good guy" which sets a bad faith that muddle the premise that all protagonist has to make good decisions all the time. He was capable of doing good things, but his baggage, even though he was raised with love by his mother, is still clouded by depression. You could be the nicest person in the world with zero problems, and the depression still took hold of your life.

Imagine people saying they want to help people with depression until that person can't even take care of themselves or showing massive indifference towards the people they knew and loved, because the voices in their head tell them that they are worthless. Feeling all numb and messy.

I love this premise for Jin because then, we could perceive the Devil Gene as representation of intergenerational traumas. It doesn't have to be exclusively physical trauma.

I saw Jin and Kazuya as foils to each other, in the sense of Jin seeing him as the kind of person he could be, if he lets that trauma consumed him. Setting the premise that Kazama purification is not inherently good, in the same way the Devil Gene is not inherently bad. Jun is the Yin, and Kazuya is the Yang. Two opposite forces of nature trying to take hold on one over the other, yet one cannot exist without the other.

Being consumed and dwindled by traumas can be bad for you, but it is also what makes you what you are today: "Jin", means "human" in Japanese.

Whether this Devil force is evil or not, he still had to hold himself accountable, and learn to coexist with these forces inside him.

Our problem when we are shitting on Jin's character, comes with the fact that we still perceived the values in that world as purely black and white, good and evil. It has to exist within extreme ends of the binary values, while it is more interesting to explore the character if we allow ourselves to explore multiple gray areas, multiple facets of the character's point of view. Sometimes, a character can be neither...or both.

I'm not saying Kazuya is "the better protagonist", but if they said they want him to be a villain, then I believe he should act like one. He was on the extreme ends that allowed his traumas, manifested by Devil Gene, to consume him, at the expense of everything else. As he decided to defeat Jin in Tekken 8 story ending "Despair", he reached his goal, he took over the world, but at the cost of him furthering the chaos he already started. He saw himself becoming the person he swore to destroy. Basically turning into Darth Vader. Heihachi could stay dead to make way for writing a new kind of villain. Exploring a character's development doesn't require the character itself to be redeemed. Tragic stories doesn't make them any less of a villain.

Unfortunately, this person you are talking to, is a Professional Lars Hater™

He has the potential that kick-started the "Hold up, are we the bad guys?" Archetype(basically Adora before she turned into She-Ra)

The best equivalent to him, as they also wanted him to be "the goody two-shoes", is Liu Kang.

Liu Kang got the advantage of being the "better protagonist" because we witnessed him, across all series of MK, sticking to his principles whenever he was offered a position of power and choose not to be tempted by it, even as he ascended as literally God in MK1, and still choose to give his powers away and let the people in the universe choose their fate for themselves. The only unfortunate thing for him, is that his good intentions was eventually twisted by terrible writers to excuse all the narrative decisions they made for other characters, ultimately using him as a scapegoat, because why would he let Shang Tsung and Quan Chi live in miserable lives while the whole point of his values—not only as a monk, but also as a disciple who witnessed Raiden's terrible decisions in past timelines that cost him his own life, twice—was not to repeat the same amount of mistake Raiden has upon them, nor to repeat the cycle of hatred that goes within each timeline that will drive him as mad as Kronika did?

This version of Liu Kang, would be the version of Liu Kang I wish MK1 Liu Kang could be: a man who acknowledge the rules of justice in the universe, and still choose to offer mercy towards his enemies.

(off-topic but I wish that NRS reached out to Robin Shou in the future for classic MK1995 skin. He earned it.)

Lars, doesn't have that chance because they introduced him so late in the production, his introduction in Tekken 6 was rushed so badly that we don't have a chance to get ourselves attached to the character, aside of his connection to Alisa. Like, okay, he's hot, he got the Mishima electrics, he was a soldier, but like...that's as much as you can get. I don't care he was voiced by a popular VA, because they are only voice actors, doing their job, making their best effort to spice up a terrible script. Best case scenario that I wish could happen to him in Tekken 8 is for Kazuya to...damage him. NOT kill him(this is not MK, gore is a no-no), break his arm or something, just enough to bring more pain that allows Jin to have an excuse to fight Kazuya even more, since beating up the person he cared the most is very much crossing the line and leaves a bigger impact to Jin's downward spiral.

But hey, that is not happening apparently. One person can dream 🤷