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fideidefenswhore · 1 year ago

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What if Anne Boleyn had lived to see Mary come to the throne? Do you see Mary doing everything she can to get rid of her? Would Anne suffer from the same fate as Thomas Cramner?

Mm, that's a popular AU to be sure, but I think the political realities would have been rather more complex in such a counterfactual.

First, I'd have to ask the circumstances of them both surviving and Mary coming to the throne-- has Henry had his marriage with Anne annulled, with her being exiled from court? Or has Anne been Queen throughout the remainder of his reign? Has she had a son? Has there been any alteration or reversal to the Act of Succession (1534)? Has there been any alteration or reversal to the Act that declared Anne regent for her children, should Henry die? Have all her child/ren died, or has Elizabeth merely been married abroad (ie, is she currently living at the French court, wed to whichever prince or duke)? Does Mary have a husband, and if so, who is he, and what wealth and power and claims (to the English throne, or others, or merely title) does he have?

Assuming the second, and assuming Mary, as a sole femme, has a successful coup regardless (so, perhaps Anne attempts to assume regency with Elizabeth but is overthrown), again, the political realities are going to be complex. Edward VI's death happening in such secrecy and him altering the succession to make Jane Grey his heir without the approval of Parliament were circumstances that were to her advantage; all bolstered the rhetoric and justification of her coup, accession, and reign (based on the Act of Succession of 1543, even though she reversed her illegitimacy therein). The Marian myth was that John Dudley, out of pure ambition and greed, usurped the royal prerogative (of both HVIII and Edward VI) and forged an altered succession to place his daughter-in-law on the throne (and, as you mentioned, Cranmer as well).

So, in these altered circumstances, Mary's task would be near impossible. How could her propagandists argue that Anne had done the same, when all she had done was adhere to Acts of Parliament which were very well-known by the people? What would the justification be for her arrest in this scenario, much less execution? Historically, after his arrest, Mary petitioned the Pope at the time to have Cranmer excommunicated (likely, she didn't want to have any parallels with her father drawn in the case of the execution of Bishop/Cardinal Fisher) before his execution. In this, she succeeded, and being thus excommunicated, Cranmer was no longer Archbishop of Canterbury upon his day of execution. I would imagine that she would attempt the same in this counterfactual with AB and Cranmer both, and whether she was successful in securing their excommunications might then inform her actions.

Edit: Tbh, what I conceptualize for this scenario would be more like a succession/civil war for the throne with two female claimants (so, Mary and Elizabeth/Anne’s regency), similar in nature to that of Princess Juana vs Princess Isabella in the 1470s (it would be … very difficult for Mary to argue Elizabeth wasn’t Henry’s child had these Acts of Parliament remained and Anne herself remained Queen, though, as Isabella did for Juana re: Henry IV of Castile, since she didn’t really manage to do that even in the aftermath of Anne’s adultery accusations, and she certainly tried) and I think it’d be a toss-up as to who would emerge the victor. Reason being, as I was just reminded of answering another ask, Anne was the greatest landowner among all the Tudor consorts. Mary I was also a great landowner by the time Edward VI died, because the council was at pains to ‘buy her goodwill’… this backfired, though, because it strengthened her base of power (Jeri L. McIntosh has done some fantastic work in this subject, btw), and played a huge part in why her coup succeeded. Simply put, landowning was power, was wealth. That’s probably what it would come down to, had she been granted as many lands during the beginning of the regency council for Elizabeth or whatever son AB might have had.

Another thing that would tip the scales would be if Mary received foreign aid via Imperial forces, but given Charles V never supplied any in 1553…

And again, excommunication, although Elizabeth or whatever son probably wasn’t going to be excommunicated as a minor (just like Edward VI wasn’t), maybe Anne might have been? This could also be a factor in whether or not Mary received foreign aid from any Catholic powers. Although, yk, HVIII and Elizabeth I both were excommunicated and yet they were never ousted from their thrones.

Anyway! Something to think about . Thanks for the intriguing question ☺️

#purplefictionlover #and of course; the advice of her councilors....#philip ii didn't want elizabeth to be executed; altho if she were already married i don't know what his feelings about the whole thing woul #be (assuming he's become king consort in this AU as well)#i don't know what he would have felt or thought about AB in this scenario altho certainly he does not seem to have #done anything for cranmer.

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fumblingmusings · 1 year ago

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Oooh ooh. Heres a topic i wish to hear your hcs on

What would have been Evelyn's overall thoughts and life like during Henry VIII rule, mainly how he treated his wives

Would it affect her in any way, would she try to help the queens, would she be a victim to one of his beheadings? Just wish more people talked ab England during Henry's reign

~Izzy

I think the whiplash of going from Henry VII who's primary advisors were his mother and his wife to Henry VIII who treated his sisters like dirt, discarded his daughters when their mother's became political liabilities, and of course, you know, murdered his wives, is kind of hard to overstate. Maybe not much changed on a societal level, but having a leader who trusts women's judgement versus one who actively shuns them is still important.

Evelyn has always been a little more content with working in the background. She doesn’t like brash and loud. Subtlety is always the goal. Subtlety does not work on Henry VIII. His reign is really split into halves. The first twenty years are typical for a monarch of that era - well learned men in dick measuring contests. Evelyn is used to that with her Kings, so she can occasionally talk him down or play to his ego. She is juggling two very tenacious people though. I always imagine when Henry was off battling in France and Catherine wins the Battle of Flodden Field and kills the Scottish King, Evelyn was with the Queen instead of King kind of just going whoops at Alasdair across the battlefield. There was apparently a debate where Catherine had to be talked down from sending Henry the head of King James. They went with the blood stained coat instead. How nice.

But the second half, the Great Matter, is where I think where she just totally looses any pretence of influence over him. She herself is still a teenager at this point, and Henry is such a prat (understatement). And she can't do much but watch when the dissolution of the abbeys happen, when the enclosure of public land really kicks off, when things like the Pilgramage of Grace happens. She can do what Jane Seymour did and beg for him to forgive those men, and Henry can say exactly what he said to Jane: don't meddle and if you ever think of it again remember what happened to the late Queen. Maybe Evelyn snorts at the thought. Maybe Henry holds her to it.

Maybe she says 'Fine. Watch me influence your forgotten daughter.' and Edward is beyond help, a little puritan extremist. Mary enjoys her misery. Elizabeth loves languages (she speaks Cornish for goodness sake), dancing and cards and music and is snooty and indecisive and has a dreadful temper and can be a bit mercurial and huh. Wonder where she picked all that up from. :|

Honestly it really isn't a surprise when Elizabeth announces that she's married to England.

I think Evelyn would work best networking behind the scenes. She sends men in the Tower following the failed Pilgrimage of Grace blankets and food; she paid for gunpowder to be put around Anne Askew's neck so when she was burned her death would be quicker; she did as much as she could to influence Henry's kids to various degrees of success. She goes to Anne Boleyn and Bishop Gardiner and Thomas More and Thomas Cromwell and Catherine Howard's executions, trying to be a reassuring presence for each of them. You do not deserve to die she whispers as the axe falls.

I think during this time is when she would start to spend less and less time in London in Court. Instead retreating further and further back into the country. Maybe with Elizabeth's early reign she comes back, but by the end she is firmly planted outside the capital. Nothing good ever happens in St James'.

#hetalia #q&a #historical hetalia #hws england #fem!england #headcanon #thank you thank you thank you!

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queens-an-tings · 2 years ago

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Lady Jane Grey was de facto monarch of England for 9 days in July 1553 and, following a period of imprisonment, executed the following year. She had been found guilty of having signed a number of documents as “Jane the Queen”. She was beheaded in the Tower of London in February 1554 on the charge of treason.

For more info, Helen Castor’s documentary ‘England’s Forgotten Queen: The Life And Death Of Lady Jane Grey’ is worth a watch. For information about a painting which famously - and inaccurately - portrays the execution of Lady Jane Grey, see here.

I wrote the following summary using the notes I made from Castor’s programme, describing how and why Edward VI chose Jane to be his successor.

On his deathbed, the young Edward VI faced a situation unprecedented in the history of the English monarchy: the first seven heirs in line to the throne were female. His late father, Henry VIII, had abhorred the notion of a woman ruling the realm and Edward was of the same opinion. However, as time progressed, it became increasingly evident that he would not live long enough to produce male issue himself (crowned at the age of 9, after a prolonged illness Edward VI was to die before he reached 16). In the weeks prior to his death, Edward made an alteration to an earlier hand-written device he’d conceived concerning the succession to the throne - one which would have major repercussions and change the course of history. He added the name of Lady Jane Grey (without her knowledge) to be his successor.

Jane’s lineage to the crown was as great grand-daughter of Henry VII on her mother’s side. Henry’s daughter Mary had been the grandmother of Jane’s mother, Frances and her aunt, Eleanor. Edward was keen to select Jane as his future heir as she was, like him, staunchly Protestant and, being young and healthy, probably likely to produce heirs (hopefully of the male variety!). But Jane was far from first in line. The eldest natural heir was Mary, followed by Elizabeth, but at the time both were technically regarded as illegitimate. (After the execution of Anne Boleyn, their father, Henry VIII, had them both declared ‘bastards’ with the passing of the Second Succession to the Crown Act of 1536.) Third in line was Mary Queen of Scots (doubly undesirable in Edward’s eyes as head of the English monarchy as she was Catholic as well as female) and then Frances (Eleanor had died six year earlier in 1547). The remaining female heirs were Frances’s three daughters: Jane, Katherine and Mary.

Edward’s original draft of the succession had specifically stipulated Jane’s male heirs as those next in line to the throne, and not Jane herself, but as his health deteriorated and he edged closer towards death he altered the document by adding Jane’s name too. This is why the succession neatly skipped Frances, who would have qualified as the nearest heir who was both legitimate and Protestant. Indeed, when Jane made her first public appearance as queen, the crowd were shocked to see her mother, superior in her claim to the throne, carrying Jane’s train and this in itself caused stirrings of disquiet.

It’s worth noting here that although the document is in Edward’s handwriting and was most likely an accurate expression of his wishes, there is much speculation as to what extent this document was influenced by Edward’s principal adviser, the politician John Dudley, 1st Duke of Northumberland. Indeed, Dudley had already speedily arranged a marriage between Jane and his 15 year old son Guildford, with the intention of ruling by proxy via the young couple. What the Duke did not know at the time was that Jane, on becoming queen, would refuse to make Guildford king. Moreover, his biggest miscalculation was thinking that Mary’s bid for her rightful royal inheritance would conclude in failure.

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nataliedormeranne · 1 year ago

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Guess what i’m about to do

Anne boleyn rant!!! (pulled directly from my notes app)

okay i love anne boleyn so much, she’s just so fascinating all her mystery’s and the history we know of her and how bold and a smart woman. she knew how to play henry’s card right but then Jane Seymour came and shuffled them. Anne and Henry’s marriage was far from good henry cheated on anne so many times. i can just imagine how heartbroken Anne Boleyn must of been hearing her brother is going to suffer the same fate as her, and hearing her uncle and ex fiancé (henry percy, i might talk abt their relationship later in this note) hearing all of the lords saying guilty. i wonder how much that hurt her what she once thought was a flower blooming then turned into a flower slowly losing its petals one by one just as anne lost henry’s affection. If i’m being for real the only person that truly deserved Anne Boleyn was either Thomas Wyatt, or Henry percy tbh all of those ppl deserved so much better he was the ‘lucky’ one that escaped death but did he really? he died inside hearing his friends dying one by one and the sword of a axe then a thud then cheers from a crowd whom had gathered to watch these people die. and think about how Henry Percy felt he had no word in it or he would have ended up like anne boleyn.

#anne boleyn #natalie dormer #boleyn #nataliedormer #anneboleyn rant

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lunamonium · 2 years ago

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Not just Anne for examples of why not to marry.

Katherine of Aragon: Died in forced seclusion and misery, banned from seeing her own daughter.

Jane: Died from childbed complications.

Anne [Anna] of Cleves: Wisely accepted an annulment and gained independence under Henry but was ultimately at the 'mercy' of her former step-children. Basically cast aside for displeasing Henry.

Catherine Howard: Beheaded.

Katherine Parr: Survived Henry only to die from childbed fever after putting up with scheming potato Thomas Seymour, who got himself executed for treason and left their child an orphan.

Mary I: Her husband Philip couldn't be bothered with her, not a happy marital life or death. Then Philip proposed to Elizabeth.

Mary Stuart: Darnley and Hepburn. Which, that depends on what Elizabeth believed about them but it wasn't great either way.

Catherine de Medici: Was openly treated like the 'other woman' by her husband who was all about his mistress-since-boyhood. [Could go either way on how much Elizabeth took note of that].

Claude of France [Anne Boleyn served in her court]: Died possibly due to complications of childbirth or syphilis courtesy of her husband.

Juana of Castile: Her husband and father [and then her son] did her no favors to put it mildly. [Not sure what Elizabeth would have known about her.]

If Elizabeth ever eyed historical royals, Isabella of Valois and Ingeborg of Denmark had it rough.

Ivan the Terrible was a salty biscuit when Elizabeth declined his proposal.

Robert Dudley would have almost certainly tried to take the reins of monarchy and she knew it. That would not have been a desirable marriage prospect even if the court had approved.

Edward IV and Henry VIII were notably similar and Edward's late reign wasn't an admirable portrait of kingship or marital life. If Elizabeth ever looked at it that way.

Bad marriages aside, with the court pressuring her to get married and start a baby-train, John Knox and his ilk losing their minds over queen regnants, and her own likely loss of power and autonomy in a political marriage there wasn't all that much for her to look forward to.

“How horrifying it must have been for Elizabeth I to learn what happened to her mother, never knowing her but knowing how she was treated and executed. It’s no wonder she chose to never marry!” - Submitted by Anonymous

#Queen Elizabeth I #anne boleyn #the tudors #henry viii

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catherinesboleyn · 3 years ago

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February 12th, 1554

“The lieutenant led Jane out followed by Feckenham and the others. The diminutive former queen was in total command of her emotions, unlike her two ladies who ‘wonderfully wept’. Dressed as for her trial, all in black, she carried her prayer book which she read from all the way: perhaps ��the prayer of Queen Esther for help against her enemies’, ‘the Lord’s Prayer and holy ejaculations suitable to the condition of a person in tribulation’, the ‘prayer for strength of mind to bear the cross’, certainly the prayer ‘for grace to believe and trust in Christ Jesus’. How many people watched her we do not know; certainly not the thousand who saw Anne Boleyn die at the same spot. Jane’s death was little more than an exercise in refuse disposal. The party climbed the scaffold and Jane said to Thomas Brydges. ‘Can I speak what is in my mind?’ ‘Yes, Madam.’ She turned to those watching. ‘Good people, I am come hither to die, and by a law I am condemned to the same; the fact indeed against the Queen’s Highness was unlawful and the consenting thereunto by me.’ Jane was observing the convention that those about to die should concede the legality of their sentence. But being condemned was not the same as being guilty, and she continued: ‘touching the procurement and desire thereof by me or on my [be] half, I do wash my hands thereof in innocency before the face of God and the face of you good Christian people this day’. And she wrung her hands accordingly. Jane then spoke of death: ‘I pray you all good Christian people to bear me witness that I die a true Christian woman and that I do look to be saved by no other mean, but only by the mercy of God, in the merits of the blood of his only son Jesus Christ.’ No-one must be in any doubt. She was dying confident in salvation by faith alone. Catholics, of course, would see that as arrogance and human pride, so Jane continued: ‘I confess when I did know the word of God I neglected the same and loved myself and the world, and therefore this plague or punishment is happily and worthily [deservedly] happened unto me for my sins.’ But even in that there was divine mercy: ‘I thank God of his goodness that he has thus given me a time and respite to repent.’ Finally she asked for prayers, but with a defiant Protestant twist: not ‘now good people, I pray you to assist me with your prayers’ but ‘now good people, while I am alive, I pray you to assist me with your prayers’. Only faith in this life secured salvation in the next; once the axe had fallen, she would be past being prayed for – praying for the dead was a Catholic superstition. To the last Jane was determined to witness to the truth – and in Greek, her beloved Greek, the word for ‘witness’ was ‘martyr’.

Then Jane knelt and, with the first sign of uncertainty, pointed to Psalm 51 in her prayer book and asked Feckenham, ‘Shall I say this psalm?’ It was the Miserere: ‘Have mercy upon me O God, after thy great goodness: according to the multitude of thy mercies, do away mine offences.’ ‘Yes’, said Feckenham, so Jane said the psalm ‘in English in a most devout manner to the end’, possibly with Feckenham saying it with her in Latin. Then she stood up to thank the monk for keeping her company, and gently tease him that during those few days she was more bored by him than frightened by the shadow of death. It was said with affection for she then embraced him and said ‘Go and may God satisfy every wish of yours’. Next the preliminaries. Gloves and handkerchief to Mistress Tilney; prayer book to Thomas Brydges; gown – though when the heads- man moved to help her she said ‘let me alone’ and turned to the two women. Headdress next and her collar. The executioner then knelt to ask her forgiveness which she gave ‘most willingly’ and he told her to move on to the straw. Only then she saw the block and said, ‘I pray you, despatch me quickly.’ But when she knelt down she asked anxiously, ‘Will you take it off before I lay me down?’ ‘No madam.’ Jane then tossed her hair forward to bare her neck and tied it with the blindfold she had been given. And with darkness panic. ‘What shall I do? Where is it?’ The rest of the scaffold party froze and a bystander had to guide Jane to the block. She put her neck on it. ‘Lord, into thy hands I commend my spirit.’ And the horror was over.” - Lady Jane Grey: A Tudor Mystery by Eric Ives

#lady jane grey #16th century #helena bonham carter #historical women #eric ives #gif #gifset #today in history

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emilykaldwen · 2 years ago

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Omg can I just saw I love your addition to that Robert and Amy post and I feel the exact same way about it all! The complex feelings! It makes me want to die but I love it!!!! And re: your tags about wanting to read an AU of the situation that's literally why I started writing my own AU because omg the possibility just wouldn't get out of my head!

I tried to keep it in the tags but it was too long *lol* but thank you! And yes! It’s on my list to read this week. I need some distractions while doing plot things for my book planning. The actors are great and I do like how they’re conveying the relationship. It’s also cool to see how you came up with your timeline and the reasonings behind it! I really enjoyed that aspect (I’ve got timelines out the wazoo for my war of the roses alt his so it’s fun to see others).

I think what’s interesting about the situation is that on one hand,I am a huge supporter of platonic soulmates - that Robert Dudley and Elizabeth were truly platonic friends so I sometimes feel guilty riding the Robert x Elizabeth train. The fact that there’s so much speculation but surprisingly little concrete rumor, let alone evidence that they dallied in anything. Honestly, our biggest indicator of it was how close his rooms were to hers. It’s hard to say if it was hubris on Bess’ part, or what.

Given that their maternal grandmother’s line was very fruitful, and My Queen Margaret Beaufort’s lack of further children was due to physical (and emotional) trauma, if Elizabeth was getting down with Robert, they were really fucking careful. While I believe that Mary I had PCOS and other fertility issues, we just don’t know about Elizabeth.

AND WITH ALL THAT BEING SAID, regardless, I’ve been very much enjoying the Robert and Elizabeth show. As to the subject of how/when they’d get married?

I’m of two minds:

1. Thomas Seymour Really Fucked Up, and Elizabeth should have been 100% taken out of that household sooner. Post-Seymour, Elizabeth being married to Robert Dudley or any domestic noble house is... a difficult situation because Seymour also tried to kidnap Edward, and was working his own machinations.

The perfect time for Elizabeth to have married Robert would absolutely have been when Elizabeth was sent away in 1548. I blame all the adults in her life, but most specifically I blame Kat Ashley for this. She was Elizabeth’s governess and closest caretaker.

2. Arguably, Dudley was a better protector than Seymour, and had Robert NOT married Amy when he did, we would have seen potentially Robert and Elizabeth get married (and ultimately I think Jane Grey would have survived because who else would have the power to rise up - they vastly underestimated love for Mary, and especially KoA but that’s another rant).

The issue you’d have to then tackle would be succession. Elizabeth was IMO only taken out of succession because they needed to take Mary out, and you couldn’t take Mary out for legitimacy reasons and not take Elizabeth out because poor Anne Boleyn was tried for treason, while KoA was not.

So basically had Robert not understandably went and married someone who was willing to do so, then I think we could have seen their marriage. With his father as the Lord Protector, and a stable government for the four years (technically speaking), we would be faced with a very different succession issue.

Anyway yes. I love talking Tudors.

#theladyelizabeth #ask tag #I need to make more tudor friends lmao so hi!

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heavyarethecrowns · 2 years ago

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Can you rank the wives of Henry VIII least favorite to favorite?

I don’t really have a least favourite, there is something about all of them I like.

So in no order,

Catherine of Aragon, her religious dedication is something to admire, whether you agree with said religion or not.

But I definitely love that she made education for women and girls fashionable so many women and girls got an education they were not offered before. Catherine very much was an academic and others seeing this wanted to be educated too. She donated large sums of money to several colleges. The controversial book The Education of a Christian Woman by Juan Luis Vives, which claimed women have the right to an education, was dedicated to and commissioned by her. Such was Catherine's impression on people, that even her enemy, Thomas Cromwell, said of her "If not for her sex, she could have defied all the heroes of History."

Anne Boleyn, obviously I think she is very misunderstood. She is the perfect example of misogyny. Yes, Anne was full of contradictions but then so are we all!

I do like this quote from a biographer of Anne’s

To us she appears inconsistent—religious yet aggressive, calculating yet emotional, with the light touch of the courtier yet the strong grip of the politician��but is this what she was, or merely what we strain to see through the opacity of the evidence? As for her inner life, short of a miraculous cache of new material, we shall never really know. Yet what does come to us across the centuries is the impression of a person who is strangely appealing to the early 21st century: A woman in her own right—taken on her own terms in a man's world; a woman who mobilised her education, her style and her presence to outweigh the disadvantages of her sex; of only moderate good looks, but taking a court and a king by storm. Perhaps, in the end, it is Thomas Cromwell's assessment that comes nearest: intelligence, spirit and courage.

Anne Boleyn was described by contemporaries as intelligent and gifted in musical arts and scholarly pursuits. All qualities I admire.

Jane Seymour, the thing I really appreciate about her is how she not only became close to her Stepdaughter Mary but was also campaigning to get her back to Court and restored to the line of succession (behind any of her own children of course). While she was unable to do this she was able to get Mary and her Father reconciled.

Anne of Cleves, for starters she seems to have been the smartest of them all managing to get an annulment and live comfortably (and being the last of the wives to die as well as after Henry). She has always been describes as easy going and generous which I can imagine

Catherine Howard, her reputation has always been of some vixen despite the fact she was 15/16 when she Henry, aged 49, was pursuing her and then married her. She was a mere child, something often forgotten when talking about her as this oversexed woman!

Catherine was a multitude of shades of grey as all people are; neither innocent maiden nor lusty whore. She was a woman who was aware of her own sexuality, and how to use it, years before a woman in charge of her own sexual pleasure was deemed acceptable by society. She was a child/woman who lacked a proper education and upbringing befitting her station who was then expected to act like the four queens who came before her. She was a young girl who made mistakes, and yet met her grisly end with grace and courage, paying the ultimate price for a crime that there is no definitive proof she ever committed.

It certainly also did not help that her family, The Howards, were not well regarded making her an easy target for rumours.

Catherine Parr, if I was to choose a favourite this may be who I would choose. Not just because she was smart enough to marry him at the end of his life and outlive him!

Catherine enjoyed a close relationship with Henry's three children, Mary, Elizabeth, and Edward. She was personally involved in the education of Elizabeth and Edward. She was influential in Henry's passing of the Third Succession Act in 1543 that restored his daughters Mary and Elizabeth to the line of succession to the throne.

In fact Catherine was appointed regent from July to September 1544 while Henry was on a military campaign in France and in case he lost his life, she was to rule as regent until Edward came of age. However, he did not give her any function in government in his will. Following the King's death, she assumed the role of guardian to her stepdaughter, Elizabeth.

Also as a Protestant I have to admire Catherine’s books. Catherine published her first book, Psalms or Prayers, anonymously. Her book Prayers or Meditations became the first book published by an English queen under her own name on 2 June 1545. She published a third book, The Lamentation of a Sinner, on 5 November 1547.

On account of her Protestant sympathies, she provoked the enmity of anti-Protestant officials, who sought to turn the king against her; a warrant for her arrest was drawn up, probably in the spring of 1546. However, she and the king soon reconciled thankfully for her sake!

I find it kinda cool that her funeral was the first Protestant funeral in England, Scotland or Ireland to be held in English

Catherine's good sense, moral rectitude, compassion, firm religious commitment, and strong sense of loyalty and devotion have earned my admiration over the years.

#personal #royal #question

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alilyamongroses · 3 years ago

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“With Henry absent, as he was, allowing Cromwell to take control, most of the blame is placed with Henry’s then-favourite henchman. And historically, Cromwell didn’t stick his neck out for Anne, but then, why should he? Cromwell wasn’t the one responsible for making queens disposable, Henry had already done that with his first devoted wife. Still the bulk of the blame really falls to Cromwell in this offering. There is even a slight hint of blame towards Anne when blenches at her error in provoking Norris about wanting Henry to die so he could fill ‘dead men’s shoes’. The old and completely false stories of Anne being testified in court against by her ladies is then trotted out. The inadequate, milk-and-watery Lady Worcester stammers and trembles through her testimony, but most objectionable was Lady Rochford striding in to testify that her husband and his sister had committed incest. The worst aspect of this, and why I have called it lazy, is that Lady Rochford appears in the entire three episodes for a few minutes at most, mainly to smirk, to make a few barbed remarks, but then suddenly and without motivation commits this terrible act against her family. There is no feminism for anyone but Anne Boleyn here. When Anne enters her cell the Tower after her arrest she utters a sentence once purportedly used as her motto ‘ainsi sera, groigne qui groigne’, ‘grumble all you like, this is how it’s going to be’. It almost felt like an omen, that he we were again, mired in the muck of centuries-old misogyny, blaming the women around Anne for her fall.

Jane Boleyn did not testify at the trial, there were no witnesses called, and we have no evidence that she was even questioned about Anne and George. You can read a blow-by-blow response to Jane Boleyn’s imaginary crimes here. But in the meantime, here we are grinding our teeth again, let down by women writers writing about historical women and presenting the same old stereotypes. Feminism isn’t just for the popular girls. In fact the recent discovery by historian Kate McCaffrey, that Anne Boleyn’s prayer book was given to one of her ladies, Elizabeth Hill, proves that we underestimate female relationships in Henry’s court. In her announcement, McCaffrey writes that the book was “passed between a network of trusted connections, from daughter to mother, from sister to niece. If the book had fallen into other hands, questions almost certainly would have been raised over the remaining presence of Anne’s signature. Instead, the book was passed carefully between a group of primarily women who were both entrusted to guard Anne’s note and encouraged to add their own.” Usually stories like this are dismissed as romantic traditions. Only now we have an actual example of Tudor women, secretly and at great risk to themselves, preserving this tiny piece of Anne for her daughter, Elizabeth.

This discovery has given us more than a new insight into female bonds at the Tudor court. It has given us the right to expect more, and better. The #metoo movement hasn’t reached historical writing about figures like Anne Boleyn. It’s time to realise that we are well beyond the point of being proud of ourselves for realising that Anne Boleyn was not a witch with six fingers. It’s time to think about how all the women of Henry’s Tudor court survived against great odds and under enormous pressure. It’s time to think about the relationships between those women, like Anne’s sisters, both Mary and Jane, and realise they’re not merely props in Anne’s story to be wheeled out and exploited when necessary. It’s time to recognise the experiences we share with all of these women, and that those women are human, with their own stories that need to be told.”

#Olga Hughes never fails #anne boleyn #jane boleyn #jane parker #Olga Hughes #the uncrowned queue

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marybeatriceofmodena · 4 years ago

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Been reading a lot about Jane Seymour lately just to piece together her story from the VERY little we know about her, and there seems to be that line of thought that Henry didn’t really love her and/or that he may have married her in a rush because she believed she was pregnant and/or miscarried later...

And honestly, I have my gripes with David Starkey’s book about Henry’s wives (and him as a person lmao), but one thing I do agree with him is that Henry tended to marry women he knew before marriage and that it came as close as it possibly could to marrying for love at the time (making that one of the reasons why the marriage with Anne of Cleves fell apart)?

I guess I would go one step further by saying that Henry may have married these women because he was more in love with the archetype they represented in his eyes rather than the women themselves? To sum it up:

Katherine of Aragon: She *was* a catch, after all, being the daughter of two of the most respected monarchs in Europe at the time (Ferdinand and Isabel), and she did bring a lot of prestige and legitimacy on an international level to the Tudor dynasty (I make her sound like such a broodmare, barf, but that’s medieval political alliances for you). Add to that the whole aspect of her being a bit of a damsel in distress due to being impoverished after Arthur’s death, and that all appeals to Henry’s sense of chivalry. Add that to how ambassadors would write that Henry and Katherine seemed very close and loving in the first few years of their marriage - except, of course, that luster starts to wear off with Katherine’s miscarriages. So, um, I guess the broodmare comparison isn’t so far off from Henry’s PoV. *barfs again*

Anne Boleyn: She had the Renaissance Queen thing going on, similarly to Margaret of Austria or Marguerite de Navarre? Katherine was no dunce herself but my guess is that Anne was probably the kind of Renaissance Humanist Nerd who just goes on and on about stuff and is super passionate about it, added with a sprinkle of courtly love, so no wonder Henry is all heart-eyes about it? That gets shattered (or at the very least troubled) by Henry’s infidelity, but it does seem like his vision of her as the Perfect Renaissance Intellectual Queen was still going strong even close to her death, to the point it’s entirely possible Cromwell may have wanted Anne dead since Henry would have trouble completely detaching himself from her if she stayed alive (although I do think that thanks to some serious mental gymnastics and probably some brain damage after that 1536 jousting incident, he ended up really believing Anne was guilty).

Anne of Cleves: I mean, there’s the whole debate on whether she looked like her portrait or not, and what exactly pushed Henry to divorce her - but you know, while I agree that a big part of it might have been political motivations, I also think it may have been a lack of chemistry that just wasn’t compatible at all with the imagined idea Henry had of Anne before she came to England (whatever that was).

Katheryn Howard: I mean, that one is pretty obvious. Pretty young girl who’s very graceful and joyous, makes Henry feel young again, and the minute he has enough evidence to believe she’s not as pure and wholesome as he thought, and worst of all, she reminds him of his own long lost youth... off with her head.

Katharine Parr: Like, I think that a lot of the traditional point of view on Katharine being Henry’s ever-patient nurse might be due to how she was presented during her position as Queen Consort and after - nevermind her accomplishments but also the less savory parts of her life... And yeah, her Protestant sympathies might have not vibed with Henry’s traditionalism, but ya know, a caretaker also shouldn’t make you feel annoyed when you’re in pain with *GASP* heretical thoughts...

So with Jane... the problem with people who’ll go on how she was boring/plain/nasty/cold or even a sociopath is that a) we have next to nothing of Jane’s own words so she can’t even present herself as guilty, much less defend herself; b) I feel like that kind of PoV is exactly the kind of treatment Anne Boleyn gets from her detractors, which leads to a rather ironic case of a double standard?

We don’t even know the circumstances that led to her becoming Henry’s mistress, considering there are so many unanswered questions about her earlier life, such as the following:

1) Why wasn’t she married yet, when at least one of her younger sisters was wed before her? And no, the “because she was boring and ugly lol” excuse doesn’t work, simply because it wouldn’t have mattered much for noble parents of the time, especially an ambitious family like the Seymours, since it was all about properties, riches, and getting heirs (and with Jane’s mother having lots of kids, it would be expected that Jane would be similar).

2) How much of her marriage with Henry was her doing and her will? Like, I can buy the narrative of a young woman seeing herself becoming an old maid and being constantly belittled by her family as a failure of sorts, going for the golden goose but getting more than she bargained for, just like she could be a pawn used by various factions of the court who would have a reason to see Anne out (Catholics, for one, and Cromwell and his people, not to mention that Edward Seymour WORKED for Cromwell, so people who’ll try to claim that Cromwell had nothing to do with Anne’s trial and/or Jane becoming Queen make me lol). And for all the people accusing her of being a sociopath for getting engaged to Henry the day after Anne was beheaded, one begs to ask the question of how much of it was her will, and moreover, what kind of say she would have in it? For all we know, she *could* very well be the only one of Henry’s wives along with Katheryn Howard who had pretty much no say in marrying the King - not to mention that I don’t think her family would have been kind to her after failing to do that and effectively becoming an old maid.

And, most importantly, it wasn’t a case where “it happened one night”, where Henry sought comfort to Jane, she fell pregnant by accident and welp, time for a shotgun wedding? Simply because Jane *was* Henry’s mistress for a certain period of time, three months at least (unlike Mary Boleyn probably lmao), which does kind of make me think: “Yeah... I don’t think she was that boring and nasty, tbh”

Now yes, Henry didn’t exactly treat Jane with the same amount of respect he treated his other wives - but I wouldn’t see that as evidence that he didn’t love her, simply because of the archetype he may have attributed to her? Namely the one of the Modest Daughter of a Country Gentleman Who’s Elevated to the Highest Position But Keeps Her Humility, unlike her predecessor?

It’s entirely possible that Henry saw Jane as a sort of Cinderella figure, but that more importantly, he expected her to stay demure. So him treating her like garbage at times? It’s probably him realizing that Jane had a mind of her own (although I don’t really think she was some sort of mastermind, since some of her doings as Queen seem a little... gauche, added to the fact her husband was a wee bit of an arse and didn’t have much patience for her “mistakes”) and wasn’t the demure country girl he wanted her to be, so added to his probably still present turmoil about Anne, it made him snap, while she found redemption giving Henry a son... and conveniently die afterwards after fulfilling her duty.

#history nerd tag #jane seymour #henry viii

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inky-duchess · 5 years ago

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History Bites Special: The Six Queens

This is the first in a long line of posts where I pick the best moments of history and the antics historical figures in order to give you inspiration for your WIP. Think of History Bites like prompts, only juicer and 90% accurate (results may vary) as I regale you with interesting tidbits about

On this day, Henry VIII died. Unlike last year, I won't be remembering Henry. We will be remembering the Queens and their achievements.

Katherine of Aragon was the daughter of Isabella of Castile, a power Queen Regnant. She lived to see the fall of the Moorish Empire in Spain and the treasures of the East Indies brought back by Christopher Columbus.

Katherine was almost wrecked at sea in her first journey to England. They fleet turned back and the second journey got her safely to England. The first thing she did was attend mass. During her journey, the King, Henry VII decided to go visit her early actually bursting into her chambers to see her.

After her first husband died, Katherine was proposed as a wife to his brother Henry. Her father refused to pay out her dowry, so the wedding was put off for years and years leaving Katherine in poverty as the King of Aragon and King of England basically had a pissing contest. Katherine sold off jewels in order to eat.

When Henry VIII went off to fight in France (another male ego pissing contest that achieved nothing), Katherine handed Scotland its biggest defeat in history. She led troops at Flodden, winning a battle where the Scottish King died. When she wrote to Henry as well as sending him the Scottish king's coat and banners, she mentioned that she had wanted to send the body of the king but the nobles were being pussies and said no. It may have been the shadiest letter of all the Tudor period.

Henry was actually terrified of what Katherine could do. When yelling at one of his advisers, he admitted that Katherine had a chance of beating him in battle. Katherine never did don armour and trample Henry in battle. A shame.

Anne Boleyn was two. Anne was raised abroad in the courts of France and the Netherlands. In the Netherlands, she served the shrewd Margaret of Austria who was fond of her. When Anne returned to English court, she was considered a catch because she was so clever and worldly.

Anne did catch the eye of another man, Henry Percy the son of the Duke of Northumberland. The two were deeply in love and it was rumoured that Percy was going to put aside his father's choice and marry Anne. Cardinal Wolsey broke it up and Anne was banished.

Anne was rather a deft hand at creating catchy and shady mottos. Her first was "Ainsi sera, groigne qui groigne,” which means “Grumble all you like, this is how it’s going to be".

Anne was quite sharp at times. She had her aunt, sister and the King's best friend banished from court. She wore yellow after hearing that Katherine of Aragon was dead, in a mockery of the Spanish mourning tradition. She ordered that the Princess Mary be stripped of her title and serve her own daughter as a maid.

Anne as quite determined. She held Henry off for seven years before agreeing to sleep with him, she stood up to him and the powerful men of the kingdom whenever they went against her and she saw the foundations of the Church of England being laid down due to her influence.

Anne also had a dog named Purkoy, who she adored. When the dog died, Henry had to tell her himself and she was distraught.

Jane Seymour was next. Jane is really debased as being pliant and rather dull when compared to Anne but Jane could be just just as bitchy. On the day Anne walked the scaffold to her death, Jane picked out her wedding clothes.

Jane reconciled Princess Mary and Henry. She acted as a catalyst in bringing them together. Henry yelled at her but in the end she had her way.

Jane begged for mercy for the rebels in the Pilgrimage of Grace. It was rather a ballsy move but she stuck to her guns until Henry reminded her of Anne's execution.

Anne of Cleves was four. Anne grew up in the Duchy of Cleves, her brother being the Duke and a member of the Protestant League. Anne was Henry's last choice of bride as he wanted a French Princess but they told him fuck off so his advisor Cromwell sent Hans Holbein, the court painter to paint the infamous portrait. Henry saw the picture and decided to marry her.

Like his father, Henry couldn't wait to see the bride. Dressing in disguise, Henry went to see Anne. He pressed a kiss on her and she recoiled. She hadn't a clue who he was. Henry left rather wounded, yelling that she looked like a horse and smelled bad.

Anne was oblivious that Henry was working against their marriage from day one. When speaking to her ladies, it became clear that nothing went down in the bedchamber. When she was sent away for her health, she was utterly flummoxed by a letter stating that their marriage was at an end. Anne wept but then picked herself up and took Henry to the cleaners. She got estate after estate from him and became the richest woman in England.

She survived all the Queens and Henry, living to see Mary I's ascension even riding in the coronation procession. She was particularly fond of Princess Elizabeth, even teaching her how to make pancakes so Elizabeth could care for herself.

Catherine Howard was five. She was just a child when Henry decided to chase her. He was not the first old sack of shit to molest (yes, it was. He and M*nnox were fucking wrong. Don't gimme that shit about the times.) Catherine was maid in waiting to Anne of Cleves when she was noticed by Henry. See a pattern here? And Catherine was Anne Boleyn's cousin to boot.

Catherine is usually portrayed as a flighty woman but in reality, Catherine could be quite kind. When hearing that old Countess Pole was in a draughty cell in the Tower, Catherine paid for clothes to be made for her to keep her warm.

When Catherine was in the Tower, she asked for the block to be brought to her so she could practice her execution. Before the axe fell, Catherine was rumoured to cry out, "I die a queen but I would rather die the wife if Culpepper," who was her alleged lover. It is probably myth but one can't help but wish she said it as a last fuck you to Henry.

Kathryn Parr was the last and certainly not least. She had been wed twice before Henry, her last husband dying only a few months before Henry began making eyes at her. Kathryn wanted to marry Thomas Seymour but out of duty married the King.

Kathryn ruled as Regent when Henry went off to France for ego reasons. She brought all the royal children together, mothering Elizabeth and Edward and acting as ally to Mary. She managed to convince Henry to reinstate the Princesses to the succession making them princesses again.

Kathryn was a reformer and scholar. She penned the first novel published by a woman in England. She studied theology, listening to sermons by the controversial preacher Anne Askew. Henry didn't like Kathryn questioning his opinions and drew up a warrant for her arrest. The warrant somehow found its way to Kathryn and she immediately went to Henry and began to repent all her "offenses" (her having an opinion). Henry forgave her. Kathryn was the only queen to survive Henry's displeasure and cling on to her position.

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amugoffandoms · 3 years ago

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saw SIX on Broadway on Monday and here are everything I thought of/details I recognized during the show! Nicole went on as Boleyn that night as well, so whenever I say Anne/Boleyn, I'm talking about her version of Boleyn!

also a lot of caps and keyboard smashing because why not o.o

THE SWCOND I HEARD THE OPENING NOTES FOR EX-WIVES I WENT, OH SHIT ITS STARTING FUCKERS GET READY HRRE WE GO..

literally everything looked so cool from my seat (I was in the rear mezzaine so some specific details might be a bit lost o.O)

SPARKLY COSTUMES

Holy shit they sing so well and I am just WOW

literally I was juet in awe

also the lights in the back very funky

Audience interaction!!!

hi Queens :D

the protestant line from Parr (Joy) was really funny o.o even when Katherine (Sam) looked at Parr and was like ??? until she explained

the Thomas Cromwell line was really funny even though I've heard it so many times

WELCOME TO THE SHOW TO FHE CORONATION WHO WILL TAKE THE CROWN AS THE POP SENSATION EVERYBODY KN-

ARAGON!!! (Adrianna)

MARIA GIVE ME A BEATT

I SIDNT REALIZE THAT THE LIGHTS ON FHE BACK WALL THING GLOW UP EVERYTIME SHE SAYS "OKAY."

Aragon motioned for everyone to come closer and they were like ??? And then OH.

then she was like "I don't think I'd look that good in a wimple..." and all the Queens nodded like "yes, queen very true.."

THERES NO WAY, YOU MUST AGREE THAT BABY IN ALL THE TIME-

YES ARAGON GO OFF QUEEN???

that part where they acted like a church choir was so cool I was wow wonzaj

literally I fucking loved it

dancing dancing

I got distracted for a second and then they were doing the line where Aragon is on her knees and I focus again and they're just staring at the audience like: "anything?? I'm waiting???"

YOU'VE GOT NOTHING TO SAY IM NOT GOING AWAY THERES NO WA-

yes go off aragon!!

I WON THE COMPETITION AND I HIT THAT TOP C SO YOU KNOW...

the really famous one that people actually care about

BOLEYN INTERLUDE

I saw Anne (Nicole) move closer to the centrr of the seat/stair and I was confused for a second and then I REMEMBERED IT WAS THE BOLEYN INTERLUDE

YOO LETS GO DLYH

GREW UP IN A FRENCH COURT OUI OUI BONJO-

Nicole got into that role my God Anne actually felt like someone who knew and didn't know what she was doing

DONT BE BITTER, 'CAUSE IM FITTER im PRETTY SURE SHE SAID THAT LINE WIFH AN ACCENT

THE PART WHERE THE MARRIAGE MUSIC PLAYS ANNE LIKE WALKS LIKE SHE HAD A BOUQUET AND ALL THE QUEENS ARE CRYING AND THEN SHE THROWS THE BOUQUET

when that uappens like all the Queens reach for the bouquet [Anna (Brittney) grabs Katherine's hair] AND THEN WHEN SHE SAYS, "HOLD UP LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT WENT DOWN." everyone moved back in position

YES ANNE TELL HENRY OFF

Oh shit she about to die o.o

The red lights felt like danger o.o (also I had just watched like those off Broadway heathers but I point out the small details like a few days before and I kinda recognized them from the Yo Girl song??)

"IM NOT SORRY"

DONT LOSE YOUR HEAD

THE LIGHT WAS LIKE JUST ON ANNE'S HEAD LIKE??

what a weekend, I'm like dead wait didn't you actually die?

CATHERINE WAS MASSIVE CU- I WAS LIKE HOLY SHIT WAIT DONF AIQOKWK

Jane (Keri) DID LITTLE HOPS OR SOMETHING TO HER SPOT ON STAGE AND I JUST FOUND IT KINDA SWEET LIKE??

I was lucky.. (The queens look at her) I was really lucky..

honestly I was so excited to hear Keri because I hadn't heard her before o.o

MY GOD GO OFF JANE WTF

THE TRUTHFULLY PART I WAS LIKE OH MY GOD...

YEAHHHHH YOU CZN BUILD ME UP YOU CAN TEAR ME DOWN YOU CAN TRY BUT- (HONESLTY I WAS JUET IN SHOCK, I FUCKING CLAPPED SO LOUDLY)

HONESTLT I CANT ITS UUST LIKE OH MY GODD I FANT..

YOULL STILL FIND STONE MY HEART OF STONE

HONESTLY I DIDNT NOTICE MUCH BECAUSE I WAS JUDF SO EXCITED TO LISTEN

BUT HEY SHE HELD HER STOMACH LIKE SHE HAD A CONNECTION TO EDWARD IM GRASPING AT STRAWS BUF LIKE HEY..

I fucking CLAPPED during the ending

cause what hurts more than a broken heart? A severed head.

I FORGOT HAUS OF HOLBEIN EXISTED AND THEN WHEN THE SMOKE CAME IN INWAS LIKE: !!!! WAIT!!!!

he had to change his location settings if you will

IN ZE HAUS OF HOLBEIN JAAA DAS IST GUT OOH JA

MY GOD IF WAS LIKE SOME BIG ASS PARTY MY MOM WAS BOPPING ALONG AS WELL LIKE

AT LEAST YOUR COMPLEXIOJ WILL BRING ALL THE BOYS IN

To hold everything up o.o

TIE THESE HEELS SO HIGH ITS NAUGHTY, but we can not guarantee that you'll still walk at forty ;)

yes let's fucking dance bitch yes

oh the lights are o-

NEVERMIND

THE HAUS OF HOLBEIN

CHRISTINA OF DENMARK (PARR) FUCKINGNTURNED AROUND AND LOOKED AT THE RED BOX LIKE: "bifch what..." AND LOOKED TOWARDS BESSIE LIKE YOU SEE THIS RIGHT??

OKAY SO AFTER ANNA GETS PICKED AND THE QUEENS WALK OFD STAGE, PARR STAYS BEHIND JUST TO SAY THE HAUS OF HOLBEIN AND JOY IS FUCKING FLEXIBLE LIKE SHE BENT BACKWARDS SLIGHTLT LIKE O.O

Anna's like entire speech about how tragic her life has been is so funny

LIKE EVEN BRITTNEY FUCKING PAUSSS BEFORE TRAFIC AND LIKE THROWS OJF LIKE SYNONYMS OF TRAGIC OR WHATEVER LIEN AIQJOWJS

Here WE GO GET DOWN MOTHER FUCKERZ

release the bitches woof

I'm sorry but the fact that the Queens have to keep thr most stone cold face during it is so funny like??

profile picture time bitcjez

IM THE QUEEN OF THE CASTLE

she fucking grooved during the grt down part like

And then the profile picture part was funny like her face and her hand movement like Ishwia

ANNA WAS LIKE "....hey." DURING THAT ONE PART AND I WAS LIKE ??? HEY WHO IS THIS??

THE COSTUME REVEAL?? WOAH I FORGOT BOE COOL IT WAS

keep the applause for a few minutes Anna yes

when she says like, "I look my rad than LUTHERANISM.." She fucking skipped I think??

OKAY LADIES LETS GET REFORMATION.

The face she makes after she says, "that I tricked ya" is so funny like o.o

oh my GOD THE OPERA SINGING PART WHEN SHE SAYS GET DOWN YOUNDIRTY RASCAL INWAS LIKE WHAT THE FU K. HELLO? HELLO?? IT WAS SO AMAZING HUH

she did the "heyyy.." again and it was really funny

I'm not saying im a gold digger, but check my prenup (AYE) AND GO FIGURE

when she did the "MY HORSES CAN TROT UP TO 12 MILES PER HOUR" She did the thing and I was like uHM.. O.O

IM A WIENER SCHNITZEL, NOT AN ENGLISH FLOWER

the Queens did the money thingy with their hands and I was like o.o WOA

like during the tricked ya line the Queens sing Britt does a little dance like o.o I'm pretty she also said "oh how you doing?" But honestly I'm rewatching a slime tutorial to remember what she did during the thing so I can't remember details o.o

HENRY. NO. YOU CANT STOP ME.

I'm the Queen of the castle :) GET DOWN YOU DIRTY RASCAL >:)

SO THAT PART WHEN AN AUDIENCE MEMBER GETS UP AND DANCE THE AUDIENCE MEMBER WA SLIKE ME?? AND TOOK A SECOND TO GET UP AND DANCE AND ANNA WAS LIKE, YEAH YOU COME ON LETS DANCE

"Cause I'm the Queen of the Castle." yes QUEEN GO OFF.

so yeah it was really heartbreaking. That doesn't sound difficult at all?? Oh yeah, you're right. I probably won't win then, BACK TO THE PALACE!!

THE ONE WHO ACTUALLY HAD PROBLEMS TO DEAL WITH.

my son had to deal with the loss of his mother. oh wow, kinda like how my body had to deal with the loss of its head. Queens, come on now. Can't you see what's happening? Comparing your losses isn't gonna change the fact that I've already won. :)

honestly the entire dialogue before Katherine's roast is HILARIOUS

same! Yeah, same! Nice neck by the way. :) (high five)

WHEN ARAGON DID THE LINE ABOUT THE CHICKEN POX AND JANE CAME IN LIKE SOUNDING LIKE SHE WAS WHINING NSIANIW

"oHhhhh, bAbbYy MarRyyY had the CHICKEN POX and yOouu didn't get to hold her hand!! you know it's funny because wHennN I wanted to HoLld MyY nEwborNn SonNn, I DIED." (casually poses)

GUYS I HAVE THE PLAGUE!! (What?) LOL JUST KIDDING MY LIFE'S AMAZING.

it's time we heard from our next Queen, K. Howard!! (I CASUALLY WOOOO!)

oh uhm I think she was the least relevant Katherine.. oh yeah i still don't care (Nicole oddly made it sound like she was going to say something else but then said that and Made it sound like regular dialogue?? I don't know lol)

IM SORRY BUT KAT'S ROASF WAS SO DUNNT.

your lives sounded terrible!!... and your songs.. :)... your songs... your songs REALLY helped to convey that.

I'm sorry but when Kat roasted Anne, I COULD NOT. "divorced, beheaded, died, divorced, behea- oh, nevermind." AND MOCES ON LIKE WHATJ IWMWIWMW

Jane, dying of natural causes... WHEN WILL JUSTICE BE SERVED?? (SHE RAISED HER HANDS AND I STILL FIND THAT FUNNT)

and surviving........... (moves on AND I FOUND THAT FUCKING HILARIOUS LIKE THE LONGSILENCE) Parr looked at Bessie again I think and was like my God she did not..

All jokes aside, being rejected for your looks, that legit sounds really rough. I wouldn't know anything about that. I mean, look at me, I'm really hot.... (She like paused like uh... so uh..) SO ICANT EVEN BEGIN TO THINK OF HOW I COMPETE WITH TOU ALL.. OH WAIT, LIKE THS..

durinf kat's roast, BRITTNEY HAD TO LOOK AWAY BECAUSE SHE JUST COULDNT I

YES BITCH AYWD LETS FUCKING GO..

bro I was so excited for this song like I EAS JUST EXCITED

I think I saw Anna run back on stage probably after a break o.o

NOT THE STONE COLD FACES AGAIN.

I was 13 (innocent voice), going on 30 (regular voice??)

MAJOR TO MINOR, C TO D (IT WASNT AS HARSH LIKE IN SLIME TUTORIAL, BUT IT WAS FUCKING HILADIOUS EITJE WAY.)

YES GO OFF

ew hands.. get off her you fucks o.O

the dancing oddly seems more innocent and she got into the dancing??

playtime

SHE DRAGGED THE ASS PART OF ASSISTANT FOR A BIT AND I WAS LIKE OH OH OKAY

"favorite quill" AND SHE OUTS BITH OF HER HANDS ON THE MICBKKE I DIDNT KNOWCWTATBDHE MEWMT.. I KNEW KATHERINE, I KNEW..

CHORUS PART 2 THE DANCING FELT SIMILAR TO LAST TIME SO I DIDNT REALLY NOTICE ANYTHING

I can't rememv34 how she said it, but when she was talking abou5 how th4y employ women to grt them into their private chambers, she sounded a bit tired?? Like of all the men??

"you'll never guess who I met!! tall, large!.. Henry the viii...." LIKE WHEN SHE SAID HENRY'S NAME SHE WEBT SO SERIOUS FOR A MOMENT?

To be honest the dancing was really funky loved it :D

she tries to get their hands off of her :( and then they return :(((

SHE OOOKED SO TIRED OF EVERYTHING DYRING THE 3RD CHORUS LIKE.. KATHERINE HONEY I WILL HUG YOU WIRH TOIR CONDENT VUT

the queens casually close in on katherine

so we got married... woo?

KATHERINE NO HE IS NOT A FRIEND I KNOW YOU WANT ONE BUT-

casually knocks away the hands away :)

he says we have a connec...tion.. (PAUSE FOR THE HANDS AND THE DISAPPOINTMENT AND PAIN. [I THINK SOMEONE LAUGHED LIKE NO GAMERBOSS NO..]) I thought this time was different. Why did I think he'd be different? but IT'S NEVER EVER (THE EMOTION WHEN SHE SAID EVER HUH??) DIFFERENTTTTTTTTTT NOO NO.

BRO KAT SOUNDED LIKE SHE WAS ABOUT TO CRY LIKE SHE LITERALLY HWD TO PAUSE OCCASIONALLY LIKE SHE WAS SOBBING

IN FACT THINK SHE PROBABLY WAS??

I WAS LIKE WHAT??

NO NO NO NO I LOVE YOU PLATONICALLY KAT PLEASE NO TEARS I WILL CRY

I WAS SO SURPRISED

HER VOICE WAS SHAKING I THINK AND SHE KITERALLY WAS GOUNG TO CRY??

WHEN WILL ENOUGH BE ENOUGHIES?? she sounded so heartbroken I could not..

PLAYTIME'S OVER.. THE ONLY THING, THE ONLY THING, THE ONLY THING YOU WANNA DO IS MWAH. (BRO SHE SOUJDED LIKE SHE WAS CRYONG WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK.)

THE LIGHT ON THE EHAD

she like casually wipes her tears and waits until the applause is over (which takes a while o.o)

...and then I was beheaded :)

Seeing as I won the competition, I want to thank all the men that got me to where I am today. (KAT SOUNDED LIKE SHE HESITATWD FOR A MOMENT??) Couldn't have done it without you. Thank you, New York! Good night! (All the Queens come in right before she ends and like tells them to stop ending the show o.O)

There were four choruses, that's how much sh- I had to deal with. Yeah, yeah, sorry, when you died, your son had to live without a mother. Wait, that was me and no one cared when you died.

It's not her fault no one remembers her bland and uneventful life. :)

Parr looked at Kat for a moment like, "You okay??"

THREE HISTORICALLY CONFIRMED MISTRESSES. OH, YEAH? WELL, WHEN I WAS QUEEN, I HAD NOT ONE, NOT TWO, BUT THREE MISCARRIAGES!! WELL, YOU KNOW WHAT, ANNE BO-LOSER?? I HAD FIVE MISCARRIAGES!!! SOMEONE HOLD ME BACK- (Anna like walks towards Catalina like bitch woAH CALM DOWN UOLD ON..)

Parr just stands there like uh.. yeah uh.. I'm.. uh

ALSO PARR LWTS FUCKING GO (MY FIRST FSVOTITR QUEEN)

jazz music energy??

Someone in the audience laughed and then Anne went, "hahaha, what?" I find the timing very funny

When Joy said, "wOAH-" when the light shone on her it was really funny o.o

What gets the biggest cheer, trauma or abuse? Woohoo! (yes queen)

"I'M CatHerIne ParR! I dRaW thE liNe in arbItrAry pLacEs!! BLAH, blah blah." KATHERINE JSIAJWOWJWJW (SAM SOUNDED LIKE SHE WAS MOCKING PARR AND WHINING AT THE SAME TIMEBAUWJAKWJ)

All the Queens literally clap while Cathy tries to stop them and they're like, "Yes, Catherine, yes. Congratulations." and then Parr turns to face the audience like, "you see this?? You see this??"

Are you sure, Catherine? Are you sure you're not tired from BACKING VOCALS? (DAMN BIFCH WTF ajJAJSNS THE AUDIENXE ALL WENT OOOOHH... LIKE OH MY GOD KATHERINE JWKAKQ)

Go on Queens, take a seat :)

honestly the Parr dialogue was just so interesting to listen to even though I know it well o.o joy made it interesting :D especially the gold star for Cathy Parr part sinajajw

Tudor womanhood, would recommend. :)

She sounded so disappointed and sad during the part where she talked about Thomas and then how Henry came in

IDNYL STARTING...

SHE SOUNDED SAD AGAIN :(

FEELS SO RIGHT.. IM HOLDING BACK THE TEARS TONIGHT... :((

The singing was... on Parr. (JANE WOULD BE PROUD OF ME FOR THAT ONE.)

but seriously, the singing was amazing

Somehow I had that choice... No holding back I'd raise my voice! I'd say Henry, yeah, it's true, I'll never belong to you! (ARAGON UNCROSSED HER LEGS AND LOOKED AT CATHERINE FOR A MOMENT BEFORE ANNE GOT UP AND EVERYONE STARTED TO AS WELL.)

JANE HESITATED WHILE GETTING UP LIKE HMM SYMBOLISM?

THERES NOTHING YOU CAN DO! I DONT NEED YOUR LOVE, NOO NOOO. (yes queens vibe with Parr yes) I DONT NEED YOUR LOVE, NOO NOOO.

But the thing is I can't say that. Not to the King ;(

So this is goodbye. All my love, Cathy.

YES LETS GO CATHY COME ON

I find that fheees probably some kind of symbolism/metaphor/whatever when she distances herself away from the other Queens to show that she'd rather not have her story aligned with the other Queens and Henry, but would want it to be about HER if you understand. But also because, well, not in the competition

THAT I WAS A WRITER. I WROTE BOOKS AND PSALMS AND MEDITATIONS. YES QUEEN YOU DID!!! ALSO JOY MADE THIS LINE SO EXCITING I THINK??

YES QUEENS HYPE HER UP

I DISAPPEAR ;(

Wait I don't get it? Okay, look, why does anyone remember who we are? MY SIXTH FINGER!! (AND SHE LIKE HELD UP HER OTHER HAND TO MAKE IT LOOK LIKE A SIXTH FINGER AND I DIDNF KNOW THE ACTORS FKR ANNE (OR MAYVE JUST NICOLE) DID THIS THAT WAS SO FUNNY.) Put it away, babe.

When Cathy asked who Henry the VII wife was, everyone looked at Anne like, "you know bitch??"

We don't know. CATHERINE DE VALOIS!... (And then she pauses and Anna looks at her like, "...girl-") I MEAN- We don't know.

But isn't there a bigger problem?? The dissolutions of the monasteries. No. I'm talking about us. Because as soon as we get together as a group- Everyone notices Jane can't dance! (AND THEN JANE TRIES TO DEFEND HERSELF LIKE, "UHM- HOLD ON, UH-")

THE SIX SOUNDED SO SAD ;(

Oh my God, I get it! Since the only thing we have in common is our husband, grouping us is an inherently comparative act and as such unnecessarily elevates a historical approach ingrained in patriarchal structures. (Anne says it like you're SUPPOSED TO KNOW SHES SMART AND TO BE HONEST, YOU SHOULD /J but honestly it was just really funny.) Yeah. I read.

So, basically, we' re stuck. What a waste of time. I guess there's not much we could do about it now. (And now they scatter across the stage and are just standing there like. Uhm. Hm. Hm . Well. Uh. [I think Parr was just leaning against thr stair thing near Maggie]

I DONTNREMEMBER WHEN BUT IT WAS PROBABLY HERE WHEN AN AUDIENCE MEMBER SHOUTED "SING TOGETHER!!" AND THEN KATHERINE RIGHT AFTER SAID HER LINE ABOUT FIGHTING THE WHOLE SHOW OAIANQ

We could have done like a fake competition, showing us how messed up comparing us is. Then, we could have found some cool way to reclaim our stories or all become the leading ladies. Aw, we could have done it as a song! :(

If only we'd thought of it before.... ;)

SO WE HAD NO CHOICE. BUT NOW ITS ALONE. SO WE GOT NO CHOICE. NO WE GOT NO CHOICE. WE'RE TAKING BACK THE MICROPHONE. IM GONNA RAISE MY VOICE.

YOU NEED TO KNOW!! I DONT NEED YOUR LOVE, NO NOOO. NO I DONT YOUR LOVE!!

PARR'S TURN GET READY

YES JOY GO OFF!!!

NOO I DONT NEED YOUR LOVE.. NOO

YOU CAN GET ON OUT!! YOU CAN WALK ON OUT THE DOOR!!

OH MY GOD THE SINGING AGAIN AHT WUF8CK

NEW YORK, WE HAVE A VOICE!! WE SAID WE HAVE A VOIIICEEE! (i THINK WHE GOT INTERRUPTED BY THE CHEERING SOWUJAA)

Well, actually- Now's not the time, Catherine :)

WOOOO FHE CHEERS

ARE YOU READY FOR A ROYAL HAPPY EVER AFTER??... Well, we don't have one. (that STILL IS so funny to me oh my hod)

They all walk off stage and I'm sitting there like, oh you lying you LYING

WAIT, THIS IS OUR SHOW AND WE CAN HAVE WHATEVER ENDING WE WANT!

ARE YOU READY GUYS

ONE OF A KIND, NO CATEGORY, TOO MANY YEARS, LOST IN HIS STORY, WE'RE FREE, TO TAKE OUR CROWNING GLORY, FOR FIVE MINUTES!!! WE'RE SIX!!!

Well, I wouldn't mind going first for a change JAKAJSJWUW

I FUCKING HURT MY HANDS CLAPPING TO THE BEAT BUT ALSO CLAP TO THE BEAT

LIKE YES I WILL PARTICIPATE WITHOUT HESITATION

YES REJECT HIM ARAGON YES LETS GO GIRLBOSS

NO WAY PACKED MY BAGS AND MOVED INTO A NUNNERY

I CHANGED A COUPLE WORDS AND PUT IT ON A SICK BEAT

THE SONG BLEW THEIR MINDS NEXT MINUTE I WAS SIGNED, AND NOW IM WRITING LYRICS FOR SHAKESY. P

HONESTLY LETS JUST FUCKING VIBE

WEVE MADE A BAND AND GOT QUITE WELL KNOWN. YOU COULD PERHAPS CALL US THE TUDOR VON TRAPPS.

ONLY KIDDING!! WE'RE CALLED THE ROYALLING STONES (CAUSALLY DOES A ROCK POSE YES QUEEN) (ALSO ANNA WAS LIKE GIRL PLEASE NO AND TRIED TO STOP HER AKBASIJW)

CLAP TO THE BEAT AGAIN

I KNOW THE DANCE TO THIS BECAUSE OF HOW MANY TIEMS IVE SEEN THE CHORUS IN SLIME TUTORIALS

ALRIGHT WHO WANTS TO GO NEXT?? I GOT THIS.

SO I MOVED TO THE HAUS OF HOLBEIN IN MY HOME TOWN. HIS FRIENDS WERE SUPER ARTY BUT I SHOWED THEM HOW TO PARTY.

NOW ON MY TOUR OF PRUSSIA, EVERYBODY GETS DOWN

MUSIC MAN TRIED IT ON BUT I WAS LIKE BYE (YES QUEEN YESSSSSS!!!) SO I THOUGHT WHO NEEDS HIM I CAN GIVE IT A TRY!!

I LEARNED EVERYTHING AND ALL I DO IS SINNNGGGG (OH MY GOS YES PLEASE YES GOOD FOR YOU!!!) AND ILL DO THAT UNTIL I DIE.

ALL THE OTHER QUEENS GO INTO ROCK/POP POSES AND IM LIKE YES.

HEARD ALL ABOUT THESE ROCKING CHICKS LOVED EVERY SONG AND EACH REMIX SO I WENT OUT AND FOUND THEM AND WE LAID DOWN AN ALBUM

NOW I DONT NEED YOUR LOVE ALL I NEED IS SIX AWWW..... THAT'S SO SWEET..

clap BITCH CLAP

WE'RE ONE OF A KIND, NO CATEGORY. TOO MANY YEARS LOST IN HISTORY! WE'RE FREE TO TAKE OUR CROWNING GLORY FOR FIVE MORE MINUTES

WE'RE SIX, WUHH OHH WOOHHH WE'RE SIX WUHH OHHH, WE'RE SIX, WUHH OHHHH WOHHHH, FOR FOUR MORE MINUTES.

Not the END OF THE SHOW PAIN..

THE CURTAIN HAS BEEN DROPPED THOUGH, LIKE MY JAW /J

WE'RE ONE OF A KIND, NO CATEGORY. TOO MANY YEARS LOST IN HISTORY! WE'RE FREE TO TAKE OUR CROWNING GLORY FOR THREE MORE MINUTES!! (GET YOUR HANDS UP!!)

CHORUS AGAIN AND THEN WE DANXE CUKCERS

SOME OF DANCES ARE DROM EX-WIVES BUF THEN TWISTS ARE ADDED TO THEM I FIND IT KINDA LIKE HOW THEY DIDNT LIKE EACH OTHER THAT MUCH BEFORE THE SHOW BUT THEN BY THE END, THEY KINDS FORGAVE EACH OTHER AND BECAME BETTER FRIENDS AND PEOPLE LIKE!!

WE'RE SIX FOR FIVE, FOUR, THREE, TWO, ONE MORE MINUTES!!

WE'RE SIX!!! CONFETTI WOOO

NEW YORK CITY!! DO YOU WANT ONE MORE SONG? MARIA HIT IT!

I WAS WOOING SO MUCH DURING MEGASIX

STAY ON YOUR FEET, NEW YORK!! I WANNA SEE EVERYBODY CLAP THEIR HANDS. BUT MOST IMPORTANTLT, GET READY TO DANCE!

LADIES IN WAITING!!

OH MY GOD I WAS SO READY AND HAPPY

YOU MUSTBTHINK THAT IM CRAZY YOU WANNA REPLACE ME

DONT WORRY DONT WORRY DONT LOSE YOUR HEAD, I SIDNT MEAN TO URT ANYONE!

you CAN TRY BUT IM UNBREAKABLE, YOU WANNA DO YOUR BEST BUT ILL STAND THE TEST

LET'S GOO!!

ALL ALONE ON THE THRONE IN palace that I HAPPENED TO OWN THE ONLY THING YOU WANNA DO TOO BAD I DKNT AGREE

ALL YOU WANNA DO ALL YOU WANNA DO IS SING ALLNG TO YOUR FAVORITE QUEEN'S SONG (WOOS EVEN MOEE)

I DONT NEED YOUR LOVE NO NO ITS TIME TO RISE AOVE WOAH WOAH

WE DONT NEED YOUR LOVE (CASYALLY TRIES TO SING BUT BECAUSE I WAS JUST YELLING I WAS PAINCULLY OUT OF TUNE ANDI KNOW THIS HECAUDE I TOTALLY DIDNT RECORD ANYTHING)

CAUSE WERE SO MUCH MORE THAN

diVORCED

BEHEADED

DIED

DIVORCED

BEHEADED

SURVIVED

WE'RE SIX!! (ONCE AGAIN I PAINFULLY FAIL AT BEING ON NOTE.)

PICTURE TIME ON STAGE

OH BOY THAT WAS AN AMAZING SHOW

GUESS WHAY HAPPENS NOW I GET MERCH OH MY GOD I WAS SO HAPPY IM WEARING IT NOW AS I TYPE THIS LAST LART

I WANTED TO DO A BIT OF STAGE DOOR BUT I WAS LIKE SO NERVOUS SO THE ONLY PERSON I DID ACTUALLY TALK TO/TAKE A PICTURE WITH WAS NICOLE AND I GOT HER TO SIGN MY PLAYBILL...

ALSO SAM AND ADRIANNA LEFT BEFORE I LEFT BUT I DIDNT SAY ANYTHING HECAUSE THEY WERE DOING OTHER STUFF SINWIWJWJ

BUT ANYWAYS I COLLECTED CONFETTI FRON FLOOR AND WE LEFT

AND THEN I RAMBLED ABOUT THE SIX WIVES OF HENRY THE VIII WHEN WE GOT HOME AUWHUWJDU

OVERALL!!

I had such a fun time at SIX and I'd love to go again when I have the time/money to go!! The show became one of my favorite things during quarantine and as I got back into it late last year, early this year, it was so fun to revisit old videos I used to watch and start watching new Queens (including the Broadway cast!!)

Thank you for reading my long writing about SIX because I love it so much, good night (day/evening)!

#mug talks #six the musical #tw cursing #tw caps #tw keyboard smash

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steve-two-phones-mackabee · 4 years ago

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The Tudors

I wonder if Jonathon Rhys Meyer’s jaw ever hurt from all that scenery he was chewing. Talk about over the top.

I question if it was a good idea to watch this right after the Spanish Princess. I mean, both play kind of fast-and-loose with historical record (Like Katherine performing some kind of samurai episiotomy on Bessie Blount? WHAT WAS THAT?), but overall, I found this series will just throw entire human people out the window.

Why, oh why, oh why did they decide to smush together Henry’s two awesome sisters into one shrewish wine-mom (Also, both Mary and Margaret were younger sisters, so why does.. um.. ‘Marygret’ look like she’s in her late 30s?).

Characters I loved:

William Compton. That guy just made me happy, whenever he was on screen. He was just smiling all the damn time (with the exception of when he like, had the plague and died)

THOMAS MOTHERFUCKING MORE. Way to stick to your guns and go out like a CHAMP. Who says martyrdom can’t be sexy as HELL?

Jane Seymour. I loved her, she was just so good and pure and was kind to Henry’s daughters and respected Katherine’s memory and was just gone too, too soon.

Charlie ‘Man-Slut’ Brandon, and later Charlie ‘I-am-too-old-for-this-shit” Brandon. All hail Henry Cavill’s ability to imply a perpetual facepalm without every bringing hand to head.

Characters I hated:

Henry VIII: We all know the history, he was not a nice dude. And to be totally honest, I’m not sure I could have made it through four seasons of JRM Shatnering his way through Tudor England were it not for the supporting cast.

Katherine Howard: I know she was supposed to be 15 in real life, but Gord she was annoying.

OTP

Call me a weirdo, but I really, really wanted Princess Mary to hook up with Eustace Chapuys. Nothing graphic, I just wanted them to kiss or something. They had really great chemistry in their scenes together and I could really feel how fond the two characters were of each other.

Characters I loved to look at:

Mark smeaton, that fiddler guy. Also, Charlie Brandon. and the King of France.

Characters whose presence I questioned:

Sir Dirtstache, the guy that seem to be there only for the sake of writing music, fucking Sir William, and generally looking like that one guy from Workaholics. (Tell me I am wrong).

Characters whom I thought were going to turn out way different than they did.

Joan Bulmer. I really thought she was going to be a schemer, a power-player, when she showed up and talked Katherine Howard into a place at court. Joan, however, wasn’t a schemer. Joan was that friend from college who asks you to get her a temp job at your new firm, then proceeds to tell your co-workers about your drunken vacation in Mexico. Well-meaning, but can’t read a room.

Stray Observations

- This show really liked to introduce characters and then just kind of kill them or disappear them (e.g. Sir Dirtstache, Eyepatch Pirate Guy, the Boulongne Bromance Duo) without a word.

- While Henry VIII was famous for all his wives, why wasn’t he more famous for his vendetta against guys named Thomas? Wosley, More, Cromwell, Culpepper...It got to the point where if a character was named Thomas, I was like “Welp, that guy is going to fuckin’ DIE.”

- Speaking of Thomas Culpepper? What was with the weirdly out-of-place rape scene? Why set the guy up as a villain in such an obvious yet out of place way, only to not actually make him a convincing villain? I mean, wasn’t him sleeping with George Bolelyn’s widow while plotting to sleep with the queen enough to say “Hey this guy is a bit of a douche?”

- Speaking of the Lady Rochford.. did she honestly think it was more plausible that her husband was sleeping with his sister than it was that he was just gay?

Unofficial Ranking of Queens from best to worst:

Jane Seymour, Katherine of Aragorn, Anne Boleyn, Anne of Cleves, Catherine Parr, and Katherine Howard.

Faces I recognized: Henry Cavill (The Witcher), Natalie Dormer (Game of Thrones), Maria Doyle Kennedy (Orphan Black, Outlander), James Frain (The White Queen, Orphan Black), Peter O’Toole, Max Von Sydow (Game of Thrones), Sam Neill (Jurassic Park), David Bradley (Game of Thrones)

Historical Drama Watch List

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