#Hetalia discourse

[irithnova]

I think it's so funny how people in this fandom would rather racebend white nations into being non white instead of going ahead and giving rep to the PLETHORA of actual non white countries like y'all see how fucking stupid and racist you look right ?

You're more comfortable with white nations (who are often imperial) being portrayed as non white rather than real non white countries and will reblog like. Racebent Romano art but someone posts something of India or Iran and suddenly there's crickets lol you guys racialise the fuck out of non white country art in this fandom but will reblog racebent white nation art and we all know why.

It's because you cannot stomach authentic non white cultures so you have to completely divorce us from our histories, practices and languages in order for us to be palatable and blorbo enough for you. We have to be sanitised from everything that makes us "weird" and "different" before you guys will even give us a chance and then you end up with a supposed anthropomorphised nation oc who represents nothing but your inability to pay more than 5 minutes of attention on a country that is not white and call it a day.

[grapeautumn]

I know i’ve been doing a lot of tossing flares in the viper’s pit and ye olde rickety old man complaining kjhsdkshjd again the intent of this isn’t to be didactic (I’m not a cop, not your dad etc etc, ultimately doing what makes your space comfy is the point of fandom)

I think I’m tired of the amount of fragmentation going around fruk circles — these are the same two guys right, my take isn’t more correct than yours and vice versa. If we’re all going to be france and england stannies (we need to get well soon jkjk) I think it’s wild to be affected by someone else’s take to the point of feeling like it’s mischaracterisation based on various top-bottom combinations

I don’t think I’m crazy to say there’s some schism in interpretations. Yeah this is happening in other popular ship circles in the fandom too, just commenting on fruk because that’s what I’m clearest on. I think the whole “he would not fucking say that” phenomenon has done incredible damage to our ability to tolerate other interps or even interact with other creators’ interps. Sure I think it is possible for an interp to be aggravating, God knows I have very annoying takes LMAO It’s not some kind of moral wrong to be a haterrr just. well

If there’s nothing tangibly problematic with an interp — if it’s not propagating racist stereotypes or imperialist structures, if you aren’t dead certain someone’s take is defying some leftist principle — then personally I think hating on it publicly does nothing for you except make the fandom atmosphere a lil sourer. doing what makes your space comfy is the point of fandom but I don’t think it should come at the expense of shitting on another’s and choosing not to interact that’s all I’m saying 

[prussiasqueen]

Hey yall so…

Imagine…

Being anti and loving Hetalia… being a fan of Hetalia and being an anti—

You do realize that Hetalia is a proshipper show right? I mean … most pairings are problematic and more than like incestous and or sexually aggressive and explicit too. So… LOL.

I hopped on a discord server and one of the people who owns it was like “DNI if proshipper” on their card or whatever the fuck—

Like mother fucker do you not know what Hetalia is?

Do you really have these delulu sunglasses on that make you see nothing wrong? Eehehehehe… dammit this shit cracks me up.

Oh and GET THIS?! The person was underage and they liked one of the most controversial characters in Hetalia that was known for being problematic and also icky … FRANCE…

France literally violated other nations and did some messed up shit and yet you’re saying “dni proshippers”

Hahahah no..

Just no.

Stop you’re embarrassing yourself …

[gegegegegesworld]

Apology to the fandom

Hello everyone, I am Panda (Potaxiepower formerly known as Kimetsunozushi69) and I want to write this post in order to own my mistakes and to apologise to the ones involved in this situation.

First of all, I am aware of my humour, which has crossed the line many times. I want to seriously apologise for the disgusting jokes that I did without any consideration of people's feelings. I want to clarify that I am not racist, I have no intention of discrimination against anyone.

I will never cross the lines ever again, and I will face the consequences of my actions which harmed many people in this fandom.

I do not expect people to forgive me, because what I said was truly unforgivable, but from now on, I will mature and I will become better.

In regards of others aspects, I want to talk about the way I treated the members involved in this situation, I am sure you all know this, but I was accused of being abusive to some members of this fandom, which I will admit that my behaviour was unacceptable, and my personal struggles and my own problems do not justify the actions that I committed against the people involved.

I admit that I was a very toxic friend, and I never knew how far my actions were until I realised that my harm to them was scarring and traumatising. I admit that my behaviour towards them is irredeemable and that not an apology can fix the consequences of my actions.

None of them truly hurt me, I was the one who was in a bad mental state and because of that I started to wrongly accuse them of things that they were not, and also badmouthing them and manipulating the situation to favour me, which after months of reflection, I realised that that was truly despicable behaviour.

I admit that I did all of this based on my own envy over them being better artists, academically brighter and better writers than me, which made me have an inferiority complex against them and because of that I was acting toxic towards them. 

Even when they supported me in my hard times, I was ungrateful and despite them showing emotional and financial support, I was not willing to recognise their efforts to be my friends, because of my ego.

I understand why this situation is happening, because I cannot escape from my actions, I do not expect the fandom to ever forgive, and I understand that, I will face the consequences of what has happened this summer time.

I am sorry for ghosting the victims of the situation after doing enough harm and not apologising genuinely because I was a coward who did not want to accept my mistakes, and I understand why the situation escalated to worse after months.

I also understand why everyone in this fandom is currently furious over this, because I escaped and deleted everything without any explanation, this time, I will face the fandom and listen to your complains, I also will leave the fandom after this in order to start a new phase of my life where in the future I will not commit the same mistakes again.

I also want to clarify that none of my old followers or friends stalked any of the members, I was not aware of them facing harassment online, I am not lying when I say that I had everyone blocked which made me not interact with their posts or be interested in what they were posting, because I didn't want to see what they were doing (because I was ghosting) and I admit that I was talking bad about them behind their backs despite me promising to them that I would not talk about them, but I did not send hate because all the frustration that I had was thrown towards my close friends who were not interested in creating conflicts.

I recently found out that they were receiving some hate regarding the call-out, I did not send anyone. I promise everyone that I was inactive online and was scared of looking at what was happening, and I was with family members and real life friends these past two days.

MeitoMela and Meerudraws are innocent, they never had any vile intentions nor any interest in engaging in discourse, and them being friends and mutuals with me does not mean that they are on my side, nor do they agree with my actions nor are they interested in engaging in this.

Thank you very much for reading this letter, and I hope that the victims of this will find peace and help, and I wish everyone the best and happy holidays.

@irithnova

@tianshiisdead

@miyuecakes

[makwandis]

Mmmmm my take on drawing/portraying America or Canada as racialized people is that well its all in good fun but like if you poke a little deeper at . That idea. It can be quite sinister. Like to speak from my own Lane™️ the idea of some ...native person representing Canada or America it's just like... talk about a fuckin apple. Lol. I understand why people do it especially other poc and especially other natives but like at the same time it does seem to me that it'd just be coming from a place that shows ya don't know much abt what's going on in the front lines and how many of our people reject that Canadian and American identity outright and have very little to do w it. I know people who's kids were born in land occupied by Canada who refuse to register them with birth certificates and stuff because they're so against being Canadian. I know a lot of people myself included who take offense to that word Canadian we aren't none of that we been around much longer than even the countries the people who created Canada come from.

I think a native Canada (n I speak on that bc that's more my experience than with usa but ik it's similar lol) would be a level of fuckin...white washing appleness that would just be bizarre. . Like how would this native Canada person just not go "Hey Mr prime minister go fuck yourself". How would this native Canada person call themselves that when Canada barely exists and couldn't exist without treaty. Like. It is weeeeeird. I get we want representation but how about scrap America scrap Canada they are lame anyways and just make amazing ocs.... or you can change the whole story snd that Matthew Williams fella could be native still and maybe the Canadians think he's Canada but he knows he isn't and is doing stuff to like....fuck over the country. Idk man.

Have fun but also don't tell me it's something well thought out bc I don't think it really is most of the time... I like seeing some good fan art but I rlly dl think a native so called "canada" or "america" would need one hell of a backstory for it to make...sense and not just be some weird shit ya know.

But yeah hetalia is white af the source material is all about these dumb white boys. I think we should just step away from it and make ocs ngl.

Don't take this harshly tho.... i don't mean to hate on anyone especially other natives end of the day I get it it's a comfort thing fuck it we aren't actually harming our people . Maybe we are letting non natives think the wrong stuff but they do that anyways lol . But the conversation is interesting

[elusive-lights]

What do you think about the drama about the head cannon that South korea is the child of America and North korea? I would like to get your opinion since your korean if thats ok

hi anon, sorry for the late reply lol i’m terrible at checking my inbox.

honestly, i don’t feel like there’s much more for me to add to the discussion that other people haven’t put more eloquently and in a lot more detail. i don’t want to beat a dead horse, so i’ll just refer you to @itstokkii’s post, @irithnova’s post, and @tianshiisdead’s post because they do a great job of breaking down why that hc is in pretty poor taste (to put it mildly).

honestly i just find this whole debacle funny and sad because i’m just like wtf is going on. western paternalism be going crazy. it gave me a good laugh but at the same time i’m in disbelief that this line of western propagandistic thinking is still around in this community to this day.

ultimately, i think that hetalia fans (especially the white/western fans) need to take a step back and re-examine their implicit biases. like yes these are just silly animanga characters, sure—but the preferential treatment and historical whitewashing afforded to certain characters (read: the us, the uk, russia, etc etc etc) speak to a greater willingness on the fandom’s part to just hand wave away all of their problematic aspects (again, putting this mildly) in favor of woobifying them.

the bottom line is this: if we want to engage with the historical/political side of hetalia, especially regarding issues as politically charged as this, we have to be equally prepared to have difficult conversations about (western) imperialism and interventionism and the damage these countries wrought on their victims. do i think the op or the person who sent that ask had malicious intentions? no. but i do think it’s indicative of cultural ignorance and how we should be wary of the ways in which that ignorance can (even unintentionally) lead to erroneous, offensive thinking.

[meitoscringe]

I hope all hetalians that made Israel ocs know hell is waiting for them

[keyboardinpain]

news flash: "racism is bad!!!" Doesn't work against a racist. They don't give a single fuck 💀

if you're trying to change a fandom by attaching yourself to every drama and complaining about the racism and putting everyone who doesn't draw a certain character in the same category, I'm sorry to tell you, you ain't doing shit for representation!!! You want to change the fandom? You want to see more poc countries being depicted? Do it yourself!! Post!! Talk about whatever!!

"oh but people don't pay attention to poc countries :(( my account won't grow if I do that.. is because everyone is so racist"

1- that's the same reasoning big companies have for never depicting minorities, so let's immediately start this by saying, bullshit. People who care WILL find your account and isn't that what matters? The people who care? Not 20000 people that look at your posts in annoyance because they don't actually care and were guilt tripped into following you

2- who....who are you posting for?? Yourself to have fun and interact with people who have similar interests or to get famous?? Who cares if somebody posting Twink Italy gets more followers, post about Nigeria with passion and peace and have fun!!!

3- not everyone who doesn't pay attention to your account or poc countries is fucking racist omg. Yes, ofc, racism in geopolitics and history has caused lots of people to not have access to a full picture of the world and this will show in the interests but also .. maybe they haven't found your account? Most poc countries have to be ocs and finding hetalia ocs is hard. Even harder finding them interesting when they're barely posted about or if they are drowned with drama. It's not racism, it's not knowing it could even exist! And still, if they don't care that's ok. It's still not racist. And same thing if they are canon. Not everyone has to care

Shit I have a bunch of mutuals who don't reblog my Venezuela art, does that make them racist?? No! They don't care and that's fine!!! It's ok!!! I don't care about the Nordics they don't care about Venezuela, it's chill! Not everyone has to have your same interests in the same way

And also, constantly posting about drama instead of actually working on your goddam OC's makes people immediately be turned off by your account.

People don't need extra negativity "it's not fair white people get to ignore this while we suffer constantly" MF you were the one that posted that!!!! You can block people!!! Fucking Tumblr makes bubbles specifically to create echo chambers of yes man, you don't have to deal with the negativity either!!! And also the whole point of wanting equality is so nobody has to suffer, not so everyone suffer the same!!! There are multiple ways to keep yourself safe that I myself use because my own country gets treated like shit 💀 this is a fandom, you don't have to interact with everyone you don't like or correct them nobody out there will stop dying if you do.

You are fighting a random person behind the screen not actually dismantling centuries of racism. This just makes it stressful for poc people or non poc people who want to draw poc characters, you know why? Because it feels like we constantly need to interact with drama and we can't look at tags that aren't filled with it. I hope nobody in this fandom has anxiety or OCD cause the way so many posts are formatted is nauseating!

Its the same bullshit as "if you listen to this song you're a bigot" 🍅

You are drowning in a drop of water. Racists exist everywhere but if you constantly go looking for them and interact with them, guess what? More racists will find you. The algorithms will literally bring them to you 💀💀

I am not saying racists don't deserve criticism, obviously they do. It's important to hold people accountable (especially in this fucking fandom) but once you see they won't start changing... block them. Don't base your content around calling racists out cause every racist who has been called out is still posting and being racist. Your time would be much better spent doing the content you like and creating a safe place for others who wish to do the same, even if it's only 5 people.

I know I sound very angry in this post, frankly I am. It's not targeted at anyone specifically tho. There is a lot of imbalance in this fandom but making huge rants (like this one lol) won't make up for the lack of a certain country, only making content with them will, and guilt tripping other people into making it will give you shitty results.

This rant was all over the place and if you read it that's great, it's probably nonsense. I am not expecting anyone to change their mind, I do not care, I just needed to get this off my chest. Once again, this is not targetted at anyone and if you feel targetted, talk about it with yourself cause I'm not going against you. Have a great day/night and remember to have fun

[just-antithings]

Why do antis hate hetalia so much?

Uhh biggest complaint I've heard abt it from people in fandom (some of which are not antis) is that its fash propaganda. I have not seen Hetalia and therefore have no idea myself of the content. That being said I've seen multiple (numerous, even) Jewish people express this opinion and I'm aware of Japan's fascism problem so, yanno. Probably an accurate assessment. I'm sure you can find multiple essays breaking down the issues in it, at least one of the people who sees this post can probably provide them.

But like. It should be said. A lot of what antis protest against is highly performative and not actually helpful to anyone so. It's another cause they probably took up with fake victims (the other characters in the show) while ignoring the struggles of actually marginalized people. I could probably dig up dozens of posts authored by Jewish individuals talking about how the average person is more concerned with seeming to be against antisemitism VS actually doing anything about making real living breathing Jewish people safer. This isn't even anti specific. So if I was venturing a guess based on what I know of the anti movement and their past behaviors, they're against Hetalia because that means Hetalia fans are an acceptable target for them to pull their awful shit on.

Disclaimer: I'm a gentile who did their best to provide an unbiased (my bias is against antis) and accurate of summary of the situation as I understand it. I am not saying that being against Hetalia is inherently performative just laying out the conclusions I've come to as an outsider of Hetalia and the anti movement + someone learning from Jewish individuals about how to not be antisemitic and combat antisemitism.

[itstokkii]

now that im back here's a little something for the kind definitely grown up adult souls who bullied me off for a week <3

[lagoonxii]

I'm sorry y'all but I don't like the new hetalia mafia universe?? Im not saying the entire universe has to bend to my wishes but can we stick to historical, given the nature of these guys being personified countries. if there is going to be mafia universe can it be like. Side-line. I'm not saying liking mafia aus or the new season is bad but this is my personal opinion.

[irithnova]

Rusame fans try not to send death threats and be Sinophobic because like (1) Chinese person questioned the popularity of your fucking wildly popular white boy ship challenge

Yeah everyone block this person and don't engage with them please (don't resort to their level and send threats/death threats) because what the fuck is this. Why do rusame fans act like they're a protected group lmfao bye sending death threats and helping spread covid conspiracies that literally get Chinese people thrown in front of trains because your anime jerk off material isn't popular with everyone.

[koolkat9]

🔥🎤

get-to-know-you-better hetalia ask game! version 2.0

🔥give us a hetalia hot take!

Hmm...Let's see...

Well I've been hearing on Tumblr and Twitter debates about Arthur's character. The whole Seme/Dominant/Masculine Arthur vs. Uke/Submissive/Feminine Arthur. Both sides are throwing out that the other is wrong and that canon supports them. And I actually find it kind of funny that both claim that canon supports them and not the other?

But that's the thing about Arthur, and why I love him. He's a walking contradiction. So both interpretations can be present in him depending on what aspects of his character you want to focus on. He can really be molded any way you want. And for as much as I complain about 2012 fanon Arthur, reading some of the old manga strips, there was some basis for a blushy, overly tsundere Arthur interpretation. (though the whole depiction of him being a blushing virgin with no experience will still never make sense to me since he's been called the erotic ambassador even in some of the old stuff).

Personally I like mixing the two characterizations, I prefer writing Arthur dominant, but I think he has a guilty pleasure of being in the submissive role. But he's got some trauma and societal pressure that makes him repress those submissive wants. A try and true switch deep down, but with some insecurity issues around subbing but will sub if enough trust has been built between him and his parnter(s). I tend to make him present more masculine, but not against donning a dress in the right circumstances, such as teasing his lover/embracing a lover's kink. Even just for the fun of it because I love to think Arthur and Fran dabbled in drag in their teens. And I actually really hate the indicators uke/seme though I know it's common for yaoi and bl and rather use top and bottom and sub and dom, but still, depending on the scenario, pairing, and what I want Arthur to be in the mood for, Arthur switches.

What I'm getting at is that I don't think anyone is actually "wrong." Because Arthur is one of those characters you can really make an argument for almost any characterization depending on which traits in him you most relate to. You may not like a characterization, but I wouldn't say that they're "wrong" seriously.

But I get it, because I'm guilty of it too. It's very tempting to complain about a characterization you don't like. That's why I try to limit it to private discords or preface discussions by saying "This is my personal opinion/interpretation." But hey! It's the internet, and I can't dictate how you act. As long as you aren't calling anyone stupid or insulting them because of this it's not really causing harm.

I shall end on a positive note. Why fight about characterization when both can exist together and we can make uke England and seme England kiss?

Actually lowkey kind of nervous posting this because I have two mutuals on opposite sides of this debate who have been posting about it. I'm sorry guys, love you even if we don't regularly talk

🎤 what's your favourite character song?

Gosh how dare you make me choose! Almost all of Arthur's character songs. But if I had to choose one I'd say his newest one "Fantasic Wonderland"

[grapeautumn]

Shitting on someone publicly vs choosing not to interact are two very different things.

Also, what you mean when you said "as long as a take isn't defying a leftist principle"? What do fandom interpretations have to with leftism?

Thanks for the ask! the 'and' I meant was connective, so the act of shitting on a take publicly AND choosing not to interact with its creator. I guess I don't really understand the logic of choosing not to interact in good faith is what I meant.

I think we can say interpreting hetalia in ways that........ aren't leftist spells more problems considering it's. about personified nations. I think the old slip and slide into spitting nationalist talking points can get pretty easy without critical thought in that direction

You're welcome to continue discussing off anon my dude

[makwandis]

@ people sending death threats over discourse in probably the stupidest anime:

EMPLOYMENT APPLICATION, RESUME, COVER LETTER, A LIFE, HAVE YOU HEARD OF ANY OF THESE, SON??

[eiochevart]

you understand link and zelda. how to draw them i mean. powerful. i dont respect you being a fan of hetalia but youre smart and skilled and powerful, you are going to make something great.

First of all, thank you! It makes me incredibly happy when people go out of their way to compliment me, it really does mean a lot. Honestly I’m conflicted abt Hetalia myself, I was a fan back when I was like… 12, and the characters (or, my own interpretations of the characters) just kinda stuck with me. I haven’t watched the show in years, for several reasons.

Wasn’t planning to have that rant now, but you gave me the opportunity to address this so here we go I guess. This is aimed towards everyone who follows this blog, actually! I’d like to make it clear that I don’t support Hetalia, at least not the way it was handled in the show and comics.

It’s a cool concept? Like, the whole baseline, the thing with anthropomorphic nations. I think that’s why it still intrigues me: there’s just so much to do with the concept, and plenty of fans have made amazing works based on just that. I’d definitely say that the canon is outdated and, through I hate using the word, problematic. Recently, fans have breached with the original work, taking the concept and using it to promote diversity and liberty. People even go as far as changing up canon character designs to better represent ethnic and diverse features, something I myself have tried to accomplish with my art. I’m not looking away from the fact that there are fans who use Hetalia as a way of spreading hatred and bigotry on the internet, and I in no way approve of or support that. This goes to pretty much all fandoms, I guess; but using a show, series or other work of art that a lot of people love and identify with, just to get your twisted opinions or ideologies across, is incredibly nasty and insensitive.

I hope I was able to make my stand on this topic clear! Don’t be afraid to ask questions or DM me if you’re interested in taking the conversation further, just don’t be unreasonably mean. I’ve decided to pin this post because I think it’s an important thing for both old and new followers to know. Love you guys!