#HTTYD3 talk

[thereweredragonshere]

I want to hit Dean DeBlois over the head with a gift of the night fury shaped frying pan

[neytui]

I'm constantly fighting the cringy urge to self insert myself on httyd at least once

But today I dreamt about it and I'm still excited, like come on

[cure-whimsy]

does anyone have like. full-body references of ruffnut's viking outfit from httyd3

I only have her dragon armour, and a waist-up shot of her viking outfit

[circusclownsam]

The transition from a lush orange forest to a dead decaying forest is absolutely beautiful.

I will always love HTTYD2. Also love how Astrid gives hiccup a “what the fuck, shut up” look when he’s mocking Eret while he’s talking about drago.

[hijacksecrets]

On my second watch through of Race to the Edge, and man, could you imagine if we'd gotten a villain like Viggo instead of Drago in HTTYD2? Like, instead of this big dumb brute who just wants power (that essentially is no different than the other types of vikings that Hiccup deals with every day), if Hiccup actually had an intellectual opponent who gave him a run for his money (and hell, maybe even some moral challenges?)

(don't talk to me about Grimmel, i know technically he was like that but Hiccup had 0 braincells in httyd3 and just overall this household is a zero httyd3 tolerance household, thank you. Also Viggo has way more charisma than Grimmel)

RTTE has its faults but overall the good moments in the show are REALLY good, and I love how they did Viggo - I just wish he were in something with a higher budget T0T

[astridhoff03]

Top 7 Hiccstrid Moments from httyd3 & Homecoming 🤗❤️

Also you have to watch Cinema Therapy, they analyzed Hiccstrids Releationship trough out the Trilogy and the most interesting is when Astrid gives Hiccup a talk before the battle.

[artist-issues]

I’m going to say it.

I don’t think How to Train Your Dragon 3 was good.

Not when you compare it to literally either of the other movies. Certainly not as a conclusion.

I mean, the first movie was about a boy who manages to understand a hostile dragon species and bring peace to two warring factions, which is a parallel for his relationship with his father. The second film was about how sometimes, peace has to be fought for, and Hiccup’s whole identity was in contrast with that—because while his mother ran from conflict and his father leapt at it too eagerly, he had always been the one to stop the fighting. Then he has to learn that the things we love are worth protecting. 

And after he learns that humans and dragons can learn to understand each other and coexist—after he learns that it isn’t enough to run and hide or fight out of fear, but instead you must protect the things you care about—

After those two natural, powerful progressions are clearly worked for in the first two movies—

How to Train Your Dragon 3 comes along and says “‘No actually, sometimes all it takes is one madman whom you defeated with no loss of life to convince you that the things you care about should just crawl into a very pretty hiding hole, because you don’t feel like spending the rest of your life fighting for them.”

And I can say more. Below the break. 

Because I’ve waited a long time to talk about this. Everybody around me was saying that the third HTTYD movie was sooo good, how could I not love it, what was my problem, they’re crying in the theater seats around me, they’re all moved, but nobody can tell me why. What makes HTTYD3 so good, STORY WISE? What makes the fact that Toothless, who is established as “Hiccup’s Other Half” and his character’s support, leaving, a good conclusion?

And it’s not just that my feelings were hurt at the idea of this iconic duo being split up in the finale. 

It just doesn’t make any sense. Because the main thing that the whole series was built around was the adversity Hiccup and Toothless were always going to come up against, because they shouldn’t be friends. The whole first movie is like “dragons and Vikings hate and kill each other, there’s no way to get over this fear, nobody can be around Night Furies without dying,” and Hiccup and Toothless literally fly in the face of that. Then the whole second movie is “dragons either have to be left completely alone to themselves and their ways in the wild apart from man, or they have to be brutally enslaved as war machines under man’s boot” and then Hiccup and Toothless fly in the face of that. They stick together as their own, unique partnership, and it changes the world in HTTYD and in HTTYD2.

And then in the third movie, boom, Toothless suddenly doesn’t belong with Hiccup anymore? Suddenly it’s essential that he live completely separate, alone with “his own kind?” Suddenly it’s too hard and too dangerous to protect this dragon-Viking way of life that the whole first and second movie worked for?

I mean. They even abandon Berk. They fought so hard for Berk throughout three television series and two excellent movies. 

And I get it. The idea is that, they left Berk because Berk is a people, so no matter where they go Berk is still alive, just like no matter where Toothless goes, his friendship with Hiccup is “still alive.” And that’s a fine theme, I guess, except it totally makes the first two movies seem worthless. It makes Hiccup’s mom seem right for abandoning her family and giving up on the idea that humans and dragons could ever live peacefully. According to HTTYD3, Hiccup and Toothless never should have interacted again after he cut Toothless free of the net. Because Toothless should’ve just…gone on to live with his own kind.

Oh except he couldn’t, because Hiccup knocked his tail fin off and Toothless needed Hiccup. Just like Hiccup was weird and innovative in a time of traditional brutish Vikings, and he, in his own way needed Toothless. So they couldn’t live among their own kind without one another. 

And I see that HTTYD3 is trying to say “‘yes, they needed each other, but now they’ve grown up and the only thing left to learn is how to let go and move on.” But you know what, if you were going to tell me that, you shouldn’t have made the driving motivation for these characters to leave one another: “too many bad guys keep inevitably attacking us.”

You also shouldn’t have made the secondary driving motivation: “Toothless likes a pretty girl dragon and he can’t be with her and be with Hiccup because she’s Too Wild.™” Because guess what? The other thing that all of the previous canon content set up was that Hiccup can basically tame and befriend any wild dragon.

There are very few dragons, even in the TV show, that he cannot make friends with and live side-by-side with, and the ones that existed were basically just big, angry killing machines who presented themselves as way more threatening in mannerisms than the Light Fury does in the third movie. The Red Death eats other dragons; the Light Fury warns other dragons of traps. The Skrill tries to lightning-fry every human around it; the Light Fury only ever plasma blasts at humans that surprise her while she’s actively snooping around their camp.

I am willing to buy a story where a dragon needs to be free of his human master if he wants to have a future with his own kind, but you can’t do that if the dragon in the story is Toothless and the master in the story is Hiccup. Because those characters’ relationship was established as the future of their kind. Viking’s way forward was dragons—dragons’ way forward was Vikings. 

And that brings up another bone of contention with me—the first reason for the finale split-up—what made Grimmel so terrifying that it convinced Hiccup to uproot his whole tribe from their ancestral home and eventually give up on fighting for his dragon/Viking way of life, and Toothless himself? Was it that Grimmel was a better strategist than Hiccup? Because Grimmel lost and died, so there’s no reason for that to remain the reason. Was it because Viggo had a whole army of people that were slapped together to hastily represent “the rest of the world” and a bunch of dragons—again, DRAGONS, Hiccup’s specialty—to attack them with? Because again, all of them lost. And Berk sacrificed nothing in the process, unless you count, like…stress.

And DON’T give me any crap about the epilogue. Don’t tell me “‘Oh, OP, you totally ignored the part at the end where Toothless and Hiccup’s new families visit each other, they’re not gone forever, they’re just Friends From Afar, living at peace, protecting the peace by staying apart.”

That is 1) a terrible cowardly step back from any emotional impact that the big goodbye and sense of sacrifice that living apart from each other should have given the audience, and 2) still doesn’t negate the fact that Hiccup and Toothless WERE fighting for their way of life, which was living together, since movie 1, and the fact is whether they visit each other or not they still don’t get to have that anymore. For no good reason. I could say more. I could talk about how silly I think a lot of the Light Fury plot is, how poorly set-up the Hidden World was as a conclusion piece, blah blah blah. But instead, I’ll just leave this quote from the end of How to Train Your Dragon 2, and you tell me how the logical conclusion to this quote was “let’s abandon our home and stuff our dragons in a hiding-hole because the enemies and armies that have never once actually defeated us are just too much hassle to keep fighting with.”

“This is Berk. A bit trampled and busted and covered in ice, but it's home. It's our home. Those who attacked us, are relentless, and crazy. But those who stopped them, oh, even more so! We may be small in numbers, but we stand for something bigger than anything the world can pin against us. We are the voice of peace, and bit by bit, we will change this world. You see, we have something they don't. Oh, sure, they have armies, and they have armadas. But we... we have... OUR DRAGONS!"

[kittenpinkamations]

The more I think about it (this post talking about Hiccup having a bit of an “I’m always right” ego) the more HTTYD2/3 & even RTTE Hiccup seems so fascinating to me actually. Not a negative critique, I genuinely think with this bit of perspective I can enjoy these movies more than I already do (which is a FEAT for someone as httyd obsessed as me)

Like he feels more believable as a 20 year old person instead of just an older version of his teen self?? If that makes sense??? I think it helps that I like. Kind of managed to make a connection comparing him to Phoenix Wright except AA actually more explicitly addressed Phoenix’s ego.

(For those unfamiliar with Ace Attorney: Phoenix is a very similarly snarky though idealistic protagonist who in the first game establishes himself as a bit of a hero in the legal world and as a defence attorney, serves as a devil’s advocate for the persecuted and proves their innocence through his sheer undying loyalty and faith. But in the second game his “I need to be the hero I’m the only one who can do it” complex comes to bite him in the butt and another character essentially says “Listen to yourself. We’re not heroes, we’re only human you and I” and the message is instead of the defense trying to be the sole hero saving everyone, he has to trust the prosecution and they need to work together for justice to be served, guilty or not.)

And like. Back to HTTYD. One of Hiccup’s defining traits is that he’s stubborn! That is a great boon to him in the first movie when he sticks with his beliefs in the dragons not being monsters, in brains being better than brawn. But after being the one used to being right about certain things when everyone else was wrong for so long, is it really that unbelievable that his fatal flaw is, shown time and time again, not listening to the words of those who care about him until the consequences come to bite him?

The entirety of that Thawfest episode.

Astrid and Dagur in Enemy Of My Enemy trying to get through to Hiccup’s thick skull that he shouldn’t have to do all this alone, that revenge will consume him.

Midnight Scrum where, in return for not wanting to open up and take Astrid’s advice to tell Stoick what’s going on because that means being a burden, Hiccup gets kidnapped and targeted by a bunch of people.

HTTYD2 where it turns out: He cannot just go talk to Drago! His parents were actually right!

HTTYD3 has its flaws but it had this message too!

Hiccup is kind, inventive, empathetic, and optimistic. He is also, knowingly or not, biting the hands that didn’t feed him. Only now the hands are trying to feed him and he’s still biting. (Which. Hooooo sounds more like a trauma response now that I’ve said it aloud) And that is such a fascinating trait to me (affectionate) that I wish the fandom explored more because it makes him more of a balanced character! (And also relatable as someone who was also bullied as a kid then had to gradually learn to let go of my own ego because the world does not revolve around me)

[1000dactyls]

So I wanna know, you'd true and honest thoughts on THW I think I remember you saying you didn't want to talk about it? I'm so sorry for this ask, but I'm curious because so much of the fandom doesn't like it, and while I agree everyone sees to have different reasons

there is quite a bit i dont like about thw, but the two most primary reasons are a) the artistic direction and b) the narrative's betrayal of the core themes set up by the first movie

a lot has already been said about the artificial smoothness of httyd3's rendering -- the textural smoothness of the dragons and skin, for one -- but it's the botox injection valka and the other ladies seemed to receive that irritates me the most. coming off the heels of two other movies less hesitant to show signs of aging as a natural process, the flattening of their wrinkles and fat feels shallow to me.

IMHO, the unnatural smoothness of movie mimics the hollow feel the third movie's narrative has, lacking the history and depth of the events the characters have lived through and the impact that history has on the characters' physical appearance. the movie instead has a dreamy, hazy quality to it. which would be fine in most movies, but not for a franchise dedicated to the physicality of the characters (which was the whole point of the first movie, that hiccup (and toothless) was visually distinct from the rest of the cast)

so not only is thw ugly to look at compared to the other two movies, it's also a narrative shitshow pitted against the other two movies. like, setting aside the objective masterpiece that the first movie is, how does httyd2 end with "come hell or high water i will always jump after you when you fall" to httyd3's "nah man let's let you go". how did we get here???? by completely assassinating everyone's character

and it's just extremely frustrating because httyd1 was about overcoming differences; that message was the flesh and blood of the series, the franchise's beating heart. httyd1 navigates complicated generational trauma to cease endless bloodshed. httyd3... puts off that conflict into some however many centuries into the future. and then the last 5 minutes of the movie even don't get the departure RIGHT hello???

the only good thing about thw is that john powell got to flex his muscles and compose "once there were dragons" and bring me to tears in 5 minutes and 46 seconds

[chaifootsteps]

Everything around HB/HH has me missing the days where the most offensive thing around was HTTYD3. Talking about bland heteronormative plots and how the Light Fury is just a fanfic/art knock off seemed like simpler times than having to deal with people like Viv

Oh god, I know, right? I never would have dreamed I'd ever say that a few years ago, but bring back the stupid Light Fury discourse.

[thecosmicmap]

*Pops into existence*

Do you like HTTYD? Do you like pizza? Do you hate HTTYD3?

Well what if I told you there’s a place where we had ALL of that? Introducing….

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The prices of our food are low and you’re guaranteed a wonderful choice of entertainment! See ya there!

*pops away*

[thereweredragonshere]

I'm obsessed with your art and would like to politely devour it like I'm a starving man 🤭

Also, I would love to see Valka in your fabulous style‼️

This woman.

This god damn woman and her absurdly high cheekbones.

Valka. Valka Haddock. Listen. You are an amazing character, your appearance perfectly encapsulates your personality and life experience (NOT talking about httyd3 Valka they BUTCHERED her) and I love almost everything about you. Except your cheekbones. On their own, they’re fine. But when you bring attempting to draw you for like, the first time in a few months.

VALKA.

WHAT THE FUCK.

WHEN I TELL YOU I SPENT A SOLID FORTY MINUTES CONSTANTLY DELETING AND REDRAWING A FUCKING HEAD BASE FOR HER I MEAN IT. I. MEAN. IT. THIS WOMAN AND HER FACIAL STRUCTURE, YOU TRIANGULAR FUCK (affectionate). TELL ME WHY THE WAY YOUR SKULL IS FORMED MADE ME FORGET HOW TO DRAW??? TELL ME WHY I WAS SAT IN FRONT OF MY PC, GOOGLE OPEN WITH PICTURES OF VALKA, FUCKING SWEATING MY ASS OFF SCRIBBLING ONTO THE STUPID PRO CREATE CANVAS BECAUSE I WAS UNABLE TO COMPREHEND HOW YOUR JAW IS SO FUCKING POINTED. GIRL YOU COULD SLICE SOMEONE OPEN WITH THAT CHIN.

Genuinely think I had several mental breakdowns trying to draw her and I very nearly gave up but boom. Final results. But I did end up giving her only moderately high cheekbones because oh my god my brain is fried.

Hiccup Haddock that you for not inheriting those stupid fucking genes🙏

[neytui]

Happy Leap Year + Happy Year of The Dragon + Happy Birthday Hiccup!!! 🎉✨

I know this is not confirmed on the movies or anything, but I guess it's the closest I can get to Hiccup's birthday so I'll take it.

I'll also take the chance to talk a lil about my feelings below, pardon meee

I've been liking httyd since it first came out, I remember being a kid and not understanding half what what's going on with the movie but there where dragons so I couldn't give a shit. I don't remeber my first time watching httyd2 but I fucking wish I did, the only one I remember watching for the first time is httyd3 cuz I went to the cinema and cried a fucking toooon, also got the only official merch I had and it's a pop corn bowl hell yeah.

Anyways, even when I have loved it my whole life, there have only been few times I've got hyperfixated on it, I think this is like the fourth/fifth time or smth, but it's the first time making content and posting :) and I didn't imagine there would be people out there who could care about it. I'm here to thank all that people, all of you thank you for liking my stuff and for reblogging with all that funny and caring tags, I read all of them, sometimes take some pictures of them bc of how much of an impact they made me feel, I wish there were a easy way to answer to them :') Httyd means a lot to me and I genuinely think it has formed some of me as a person through the years. I could write about it all day but this is getting so loNG IM SORRY, one day I could write more about it maybe, but till then, letting you know I care about this way too much and thank you so much for the support, love y'all ❤ Happy Birthday Hiccup

[cure-whimsy]

does anyone have any good refs of the gang's viking outfits from the hidden world?

I can't find any good renders of anyone besides astrid and hiccup, I can only find renders of everyone's dragon armour, which isn't what I'm looking for

[revive-the-fandom]

Ik I talk a lot of shit abt the light fury but tbh I don’t think she’s ALL bad. I think there were a couple easy fixes for her design:

Add texture (not pictured bc I can’t fucking draw that) mostly just remove the glitter, add some scales & boom bobs ur uncle.

Kinda a subsection for 1, add in more detailing around the spine/ears. Toothless got loads of little scales down his spine,p and around his ears, let her have that too (srry it’s not pictured i forgot (but I’m also doing a stylised version so I guess? It counts?))

Widen her ankles. The small ankles/feet comes across as misogynistic, if toothless had small ankles too it would be fine, but he doesn’t, and so the implication is that the female has to be petite/skinny/effeminate… (no, it’s not bc she’s a subspecies, she was literally designed to be toothless’ girlfriend & we never see a male light fury close up)

The shorter ears r cute, but again we’re lacking in the detail department. Give her six ears (2 less than toothless) and it adds a bit more interest to the design. Also charged the shape a little to add more expression, but that’s more to do with 2d vs 3D tbh.

I don’t like the invisible aspect of the furies development in httyd3, I think camouflage was more interesting & grounded.

I also think it would be more interesting to have her be albino/a variation of the night fury instead of a subspecies, since then the differences are a personal aspect of her design, and not a species wide appearance. Tho I did struggle to get her design looking right w the pink eyes, so rip to those bc I would love to see that done well!

Anyway, apologies for the rant & my inability to let this go. If I ever talk abt light furies in a fic this is the kinda design I’m referring to, not miss glitter mlp ripoff.

& srry to the people who like her og design, that’s ur preference, u do u.

[tenebrius-excellium]

I don’t know how this narrative principle is properly called in English but today I finished reading an academic paper on “backend vs. frontend motivation” in stories and I am nerding off big-time.

One of the most important elements of modern media to me, especially in film, is for it to be motivated from the ‘front’, that means from the beginning. You gotta have a starting conflict so well fleshed out that it justifies all which comes next in a domino chain of such bulletproof logical consequence that it cannot be questioned until it inevitably culminates in the grand, satisfying finish. Only then is an ending good and only then can it be truly enjoyable.

The best example of which that remains to this day is How To Train Your Dragon.

In my opinion this movie leaves no room for a different ending. Were it to be replayed thousands and thousands of times, it would always unfold the same way. It’s that solid. Solid in its core conflict, in its character designs, in its stakes. It would choose to happen the exact same way again every time. Everything is in-universe consistent and character-consistent to a T. I believe luck, or chance, played a role in the creation of this movie because humanity is just not able to think up something as perfect as this on purpose.

While the sequels are - generally speaking - good, the failure to recreate the artistic mastery of the first movie can be seen in them. Glimpses of the original magic do appear more often than I had feared, which pleasantly surprised me for both the second and the third movie. However, both sequels have obvious weak points. The first movie has none. None. It’s somehow flawless.

I attribute its success to strong frontend motivation. There is an age-old war yet it threatens the current generation’s survival as acutely as it did on the first day. The People are tired and it’s either the annihilation of the enemy or resigning themselves to poverty and death. Berk is backed into a strategic corner and while Stoick is far from giving up, he doesn’t know where to take fresh ideas from. The absurd third possibility of talking peace with the dragons comes from the innocence of a child human and a child dragon. The grown-ups couldn’t have done it, yet so unexpectedly balance is achieved. It’s brilliant.

Httyd1: Shitty war -> needs to end (peacefully if possible, because the vikings are not bad people...but Stoick doesn’t see hope). + DRAGONS.

Httyd2: Hiccup Will Be Chief, therefore let’s throw some growth at him and kill off Stoick so that the two won’t fight about how to run the village later (because that would be in their characters).

Httyd3: The Dragons Will Leave, therefore let’s create an artificial villain, and a convenient dragon girlfriend, and make Toothless ooc to achieve it.

See, Httyd gradually declines into using backend motivation and that’s why the third movie works even less than the second. At least Httyd2 had a strong middle, that is, from Flying With Mother til Hiccup starts talking to Drago. Don’t make the mistake of buying into the rest: Nowhere was the topic of Hiccup becoming Chief even a thing before Httyd2. Also, Hiccup behaved ooc with his sole focus on dragons (at the so-uncaring-that-it-must-be-intentional expense of humans) and the no-kill rule. And Stoick died not from a plasma blast, but for plot convenience.

The third movie, in turn, gave Hiccup his original character back and bestowed a glow-up onto him and Astrid and their relationship, but at the cost of Toothless’ personality and backstory... and the general in-universe logic, such as Grimmel’s hollow arc (stressing his intelligence when he’s clearly NOT). You see, both movies have their strengths, but it just doesn’t work when the creators think up the ending first and are willing to bend everything else, however painfully, to achieve exactly that desired ending.

The newest marvel of frontend motivation done right is of course Puss in Boots: The Last Wish. The reason why it’s just so good is because the arc of Puss eventually losing his lives was not a forced narrative, simply conjured up to Have Puss Do More Jiggling On Screen. It was an innate part of his self, already there in his character from the start, and was inevitably going to become a problem some day. The creators made the most of it by dealing with it not after 8 more daring adventures that were clearly fabricated to generate money in theaters (what a nightmare to think about), but by insinuating that Puss has already lived some of those lives, giving him depth. Because we have not seen all of them, yet our famed hero has been shaped by them.

One could argue that the quest for the Wishing Star was a little too cheap of a narrative. But Puss has been a serious character stuck in a world full of dumb magical creatures and artefacts before. That’s literally the universe he lives in. So it works. And ohh, how magnificently it works.

So anyway. Front-end motivation, people. Has usually better characters too because the plot is tied to their consistency. It makes the ending of their story depend on themselves, not on ex-universe tinkering or budgets. Use it more, please and thank you.