#Geverhan Sultan

[yxxxxxx1]

Sultan Mehmed II X Emine Gülbahar Mükrime Hatun

In January 1448 a son was born to Mehmed Çelebi in Thracian Dimotika, by a slave girl named Gülbahar. The boy was given the name of Bayezid and was later (1481) to mount the Ottoman throne as the second sultan of this name. There is no doubt that this union was beneath Mehmed's station: Gülbahar bint Abdullah, whom Turkish legend sub- sequently transformed into a "daughter of the king of France," was a Christian slave of Albanian origin. It is equally certain, as we shall see later on, that Mehmed preserved a particular affection for her as long as he lived. From the fact that Gülbahar Hatun bore her child in Dimotika, it may be inferred that Mehmed was back in Europe by the beginning of 1448 at the latest and perhaps even that he was residing there. Dimotika was the site of an old Byzantine castle, with a double ring of walls, preserved by the sultans and sometimes used for the Ottoman state treasury.

Babinger, F. (1978). Mehmed the conqueror and his time. Princeton University Press.

P.s. She also bore him a daughter named Geverhan Sultan.

[ottomanladies]

Also she said in terms of rank, the Dynasty Sultanas are placed above the Valides and the Hasekies (Something I agree with) Because after all the dynasty sultanas were free women who were not part of the institution of the harem and had imperial blood, but the Valides and the hasekies were slaves.

I can't see a dynasty sultana like Mihrimah bowing to Valide Nurbanu or Dynasty Geverhan Sultan Bowing to Handan.

For me the hierarchy is:

-Older Sultanas (ex: Mihrimah, Gerverhan, Atike..) -Valid Sultanas (eg: Nurbanu, Hadan, Turhan) -Younger Sultanas (ex: Ayse Humashah, Sah Huban, Esmehan)

-Haseki Sultan

-Bas Hatun

-Hatun

I placed the young sultanas under of the Valide Sultans because we are in a Muslim society so elders are very respected. In the case of Humaşah Sultan (Daughter of shezade Mehmed) and Valide Nurbanu Sultan, I think that Humaşah out of respect bowed to Nurbanu since she was her senior and the Valide Sultan.

Both age and title played an important factor to who should bow to who.

No, I'm sorry but I disagree with you two.

The Valide Sultan was the custodian of the dynasty, she was the "elder" not because of her age but because she was a) the mother of the sultan and b) a woman in her post-sexual role.

Now, sexuality was very important in the Ottoman Empire: a woman who didn't have sexual intercourse anymore was considered mature (not in terms of age).

It doesn't matter how old the Valide Sultan was, she was the most mature member of the dynasty (by association, because she had given birth to the sultan).

I understand your reasoning about the princesses being born free but they were still subjected to the Valide Sultan's authority. I also understand why you'd think Mihrimah would not bow to Nurbanu but I think Gevherhan and Handan are a different case altogether because Gevherhan had raised Handan in her household, maybe they had a different relationship because of this.

For example, I think Bayezid II's daughters (and therefore Selim I's sisters) bowed to Ayşe Hafsa.

[chaos-of-the-abyss]

can't believe i have to slog through this motherfucking insufferable atike/geverhan/silahtar/ester love square with the knowledge that turhan sultan will only get four episodes of screentime

[afellowmuslimah]

In MCK, the should've atleast shown Kösem's other children (Fatma,Ayşe) in the capital during Kaşim, Geverhan or atleast the Sultan's death and during Ibrahim ascending .They could've done SOOOOO much with these charaters they had sooooooooo much potential.

[ibrahimnerde]

Sultan Sulyman and Sultan Murad relationship and favoritism towards with their sisters. Do you think they had favorite sisters and were they obvious with their favoritism towards them?

With Sultan Suleyman:-

First of all I believe SS showed more favoritism towards his children more than his sisters. The favorite to him has to be Hatice but again the difference between treatment is not that far cause his “favoritism” could be justified with some reasonable reasons.

1-Hatice. As I said she is his favorite because that’s what the show writers are showing us. Talking about Sah jealousy towards Hatice is stated as Hatice was the favorite. We are also shown that only Hatice was present in his prince-hood , she always accompanied his mother who SS loved so much. Which leads me to say the reason behind this “favoritism” is for the fact that he spent more time with her than he did with his other sisters. Despite SS actions post Ibrahim’s death, you can tell he loves and adores her but he is just an asshole who can’t show people around him appreciation. He understands her grief and sorrow after Ibrahim’s death and he tells Hurrem to take care of her which shows he cares…well the intention is there but why not him to take care Hatice? Try to explain himself to her? Show her what Ibrahim did wrong. Yes that won’t repair the damage nor un-orphan her children nor un-widow her but at least give an explanation. SS didn’t just kill her husband , the father of her kids, decisived them. That’s what Hatice said confronting him that Ibrahim was eating with him like his companion and SS stabbed him…gave him no chance to at least save himself. An explanation would have helped Hatice at least tad bit. So yeah in conclusion while SS deeply loved her so much, he unknowingly ruined her with his actions that he refuses to explain.

2-Sah. SS sees Sah in the same light he saw his Valide , for him Sah is wise person who would calculate her moves and would try to make the best out of the situation those are things he saw in Sah which were similar to Valide. Which is true Sah’s character was like this she was more collected and more calculated than Hatice. After Ibrahim’s death Sah showed SS no sorrow, she was sad and mad, but in front of SS she shows him that he is the only commander and his word shouldn’t be doubted or negotiated. Sah plays it smartly in front of SS and he is oblivious or not oblivious but doesn’t even believe that there is an opinion that could defy his and if she is showing him what he wants to see , he is content.

3-Beyhan. So this relationship didn’t develop much and it went down before it even started. Again he loves her like he loves Hatice but here where I can say there was favoritism. Unlike Hatice, Beyhah is aware of the reason her husband got executed, yeah she didn’t forgive him which I am not saying she should or that if Hatice was shown what Ibrahim said she’d forgive him, I am stating clear difference between them. Another difference is how SS let go Beyhan , he was sad at her leaving but he let go her unlike Hatice who he wanted her to be there, wanted Hurrem , Sah and Gulfem to be near her , wanted to marry her so she would forget. While it came out at the end that letting go Beyhan did beyhan a favor mentally, holding into Hatice damaged her mentally. So yeah it is undeniable it is Beyhan that was able to be peaceful while Hatice not despite Beyhan not being his favorite. SS thought by trying to hold into Hatice that he is helping her and supporting , yeah it did the exact opposite but at the end I am talking that through SS actions it showed that Beyhan isn’t his favorite nor close to him (good for her honestly)

4-Fatma. Despite that Beyhan had lesser screen time than Fatma, Fatma relationship with SS imo was barely there. She’s there , he is there, she respect him and that’s literally it for the most part. It got interesting at the end where she confronted SS which was pretty much needed tbh. SS clearly knew that Fatma isn’t there for some family reunion, he is at times visibly annoyed with her specially the time where Mihrimah got sick , or tried to make herself sick, he was rolling his eyes at her words. The way he treated her isn’t like the way he treated the other 3. Sure he didn’t hate her, but he didn’t put her over Hurrem like he did with the others.

With Sultan Murad IV:-

See this is more complicated cause unlike Hatice and Sah for example, both Atike and Geverhan appear together from the start and the one we see more than the other is after a disaster. So I won’t rank them I’ll talk about both at once.

I guess Murad might have favored Atike over Geverhan but generally he ruined both. His decision to marry Atike to Silhatar was what Atike wanted so it might seem that yeah Murad is favoring Atike but imo Atike’s desire to be with Silhatar is not what made him take such decision. Murad knows Silhatar doesn’t like Atike so as a punishment he marries him to Atike. So he didn’t go about it as supportive brother thinking about his sister, but more like sultan who wanted to punish his subject even if it means putting his sister in an unhappy marriage and making others including Geverhan and Kosem think that he is favoring Atike. To Geverhan he is favoring Atike and side lining her, to Geverhan it is Atike who is getting what she desires and she is getting the short end of the stick. I don’t blame Geverhan fir thinking like that honestly. As for Murad killing Topal pasha well it was kinda like parallelism to SS killing his sisters’ husband and it was historically accurate TIMs surprised me with this one but they love blood so anyway. The death of Topal wasn’t capitalized as much and if SS is an asshole, Mu rat was more asshole-er than him, the soulless “Your husband is a traitor Geverhan and as any traitor he got what he deserved” asshole SS in this moment ,despite Ferhat being rebel and Ibrahim being arrogant, he still tried to comfort his sisters make them get it all out in that moment at least. But oh Mu rat? He didn’t wanna let her go and he was like “so what I killed your husband and orphaned your child? Get over it”. Not that SS wasn’t like “get over it” but he was like that later on not the day he killed her husband. Then the whole story was thrown out like nothing happened. Overall I don’t think Murad and his sisters relationship developed well I maybe at his end when he made Atike the head of the harem we could say he trust her but at the same time he did this just to restrict Kosem not to give Atike a high regard or anything.

[dramasandactors]

[ibrahimnerde]

No one from this period of time could be defined as feminists at least to today’ standards. SOW is a great move from women but are not feminists cause inherently they were all dependent on men to the exception of Kosem sultan to an extent. The others powers extented as far as their men allowed it.

For the show itself…NO. Making women fighting for men even when it historically inaccurate (ie: Mihrimah and Esma / Atike and Geverhan), always making it seem like Hurrem is beneath SS and that he could throw her under the bus anytime, concubine arcs and the overall idea that women are willing to do anything for men.

Oh I also wanna mention how much they screwed up Handan and made Ahmed treat her like trash. I know historically he was intolerant of his mother but I don’t think he went as far as raising his hands over her. The ruined the women’s dignity, okay she wasn’t anything strong but she definitely wasn’t ridiculously weak.

Would I call Magnificent Century feminist? Would I call Hürrem's arc feminist? Meh. I honestly really don't feel comfortable doing so because of just how reliant her characterisation is on a misogynistic trope.

[dangermousie]

Reactions of Murad’s mother, sisters, and mother of his children to his marriage.

1. And that is why I love Atike. Look how happy she is because her brother and her friend are happy together!

2. I don’t blame Kosem for being pissy. Her son not even consulting her (and marrying a *gasp* barren AND unconverted woman to boot) is to her like proof she’s irrelevant.

3. Geverhan, why the devil do you care? You are his sister so it’s not like it’s jealousy and you and Farya have neither bad nor good blood between you so nothing is affected as far as you are concerned. 

4. Ayse, IN YOUR FACE!!!! Like, objectively, I know I should feel bad for her - Murad basically hasn’t looked at her since he met Farya and it’s reasonable for her to live for her status, but it’s either the actress or the way the role is written, I pretty much hate her. (Which is ironic, since historically, if Murad could ever be called a one-woman man, which no sultan including him could be, that woman would have been Ayse. I always wondered why they didn’t just have Farah Zeynep Abdullah play Ayse. Sure, she couldn’t be a Hungarian princess, but she still could have been a brash sword fighter etc etc. So little is known about Ayse, they could have done a lot.)

[efsunbeyhansultan-blog]

Postacie z serialu Fetih . Geverhan sultan i Saliha hatun . Serial mało znany ale szczerze polecam <3 Czy niewydaje się wam że są podobne do Handan i Halime ?

:)

[ottomanladies]

Do you know anyone from Ottoman dynasty who died by suicide? MCK showed geverhan sultan died like that. I dont think it is real, but i want to know original incidents! ♥

Yeah, Ahmed I's daughter Gevherhan did not die like that (not even Handan, tbh, or basically anyone that takes their own lives in MC/MC:K). I did find a couple of members of the Ottoman dynasty who did commit suicide:

According to Alderson, the mother of Selim II's son Süleyman took her own life when her son was executed on Murad III's orders

Abdülaziz's death was ruled a suicide (he allegedly cut his own wrists with the scissor he used to trim his beard) but not even Murad V believed it, and this was one of the causes that worsened his mental health: he was afraid that whoever had killed his uncle would kill him next.

Abdülaziz's son Şehzade Yûsuf İzzeddîn Erendi actually committed suicide. In the last years of his life he had grown paranoid that he was going to be excluded from the succession:

As the constant pawn in the succession rule scenarios, Yusuf Izzeddin suffered grievously from this obviously stressful role and lived his later years in a kind of paranoia, until he committed suicide in 1916. See Türkgeldi: Görüp Isittiklerim, pp. 132-3: ‘Because of his surmises that he was going to be dropped as heir, Yusuf Izzeddin demanded that everyone, and even the Sultan Mehmed V, swear to God that he would not be removed from the position. The Sultan, due to his compassionate character, wrote a note with his very own hand assuring him that he was still the heir. But the effect of assurances in this matter was momentary; his suspicions returned after a couple of hours again’. — Itzchak Weismann, Fruma Zachs, Ottoman Reform and Muslim Regeneration

his life seems to have been quite tragic.

Abdülhamid II's son Şehzade Abdürrahim Hayri Efendi committed suicide by taking sleeping pills in a room of the Hôtel Saint-Honoré in Paris.

[ottomanladies]

As you said Mc might ruin the show about Gulnus so Netflix would rather make it.A lot of things depended on senority in the harem therefore when Handan became valide, Ahmed's aunt Geverhan was very respected by the sultan and by all and she was in her 60s so i dont think she woulda bowed to Handan especially that Handan was raised and gifted to Mehmed by Geverhan .I think they spoke respectfully and maybe they nodded their head to greet each other but definitelly not bowing. What do you think?

Yes, exactly. As Gevherhan was the one who raised Handan in her household, I believe that Handan showed her particular respect, which is also reflected in the fact that soon after Ahmed I’s accession, he gifted furs to his mother, Safiye and Gevherhan only. Furs were a symbol of power in the Ottoman Empire so it’s not a casual, meaningless gift.

[ottomanladies]

Hi! So first i love your job! And second (sorry for my bad english i'm french) do you know who is Selimiye Sultan ? She's really the mother of Geverhan (tradicionnally the daughter of Nurbanu) and for why she's dead in the Palace of Trazbon and no in the Old Palace like the others?

Thank you so much!

Selimiye Sultan does not exist, she is an original character from a fan fiction or something-- I don’t remember the exact history. In any case, people misunderstood the context and thought that she was an actual concubine of Selim II’s... though Selimiye is the name of Selim II’s mosque and it means “Selim’s”... so... a rather weird name for a concubine...

Gevherhan was Nurbanu’s daughter.

[ibrahimnerde]

out of the woman of the dynasty I’d have been most interested in seeing Handan interact with the woman who trained her

Me too! The more I read and think about it, I understand’s how in Ahmed I reign things were different and new. Handan was neither noble born nor the eldest. Even if her title is officially the highest rank, there are some people who are inherently more dominant and authoritative over her. Like Safiye or Gevethan sultan. I think if they showed those who trained Handan like Geverhan sultan she’d definitely bow to them.

What do you think of the bowing etiquette in MC and MCK? Specially between Valide sultans like in MC Ayşe Hafsa sultan didn’t bow to Sultan Suleiman or Hatice sultan but in MCK Handan sultan bowed to Safiye sultan, Fahriye sultan and Sultan Ahmed….even Safiye sultan bowed to Sultan Ahmed. Is it because they were slaves? Then why Kösem Sultan didn’t bow to Murad IV?

I think in Handan’s case is the old habits die hard. In first first episodes, she bowed to Safiye and Fahriye because she is probably used bowing to them. Safiye’s presence screams dominance and authority and that’s why Handan was never able to assert herself after becoming Valide. I am pretty sure Fahriye doesn’t bow to Handan to show us that Handan is weak and no title will make her gain respect. That’s the whole concept of her character that she is weak. Later, Handan will try to adapt to her position and won’t bow to them anymore but still she couldn’t assert herself as authoritative.

Hafsa sultan was very noble. She wasn’t as bossy as Safiye or Kosem but she was nobel and made people around her respect her with her nobility. It is not about being from slave origin because Kosem never bowed to her son.

That leads me to talk about Safiye and Handan bowing to Ahmet. Safiye’s one is hard. She is not valide sultan anymore,but she is still someone Ahmed should respect seniority and age wise. I can’t find a proper explanation cause historically Safiye if bowed probably did it in official events if they ever met after she went to old palace. In the show her bowing to him is just….weird I guess they just wanted to show that Safiye is scared of getting exiled so she was trying to stay on his safe-side? I don’t think it has to do with being slave origin because she IS his senior and she didn’t always bow for example when she was in old palace and Ahmed came to tell her about Kosem father incident , he entered with “dastoor” and she didn’t bow so idk. Handan tho is to basically show that she is weak and isn’t adapting to her valide position.

Kosem sultan bowed to Osman when he was sultan but not Murad and not Ibrahim. That just shows that she , like Safiye, was trying to show the sultan that she is laying low so he wouldn’t consider her a threat, but in Murad and Ibrahim’s reigns she already assert already dominance and won’t bow to her sons.

That’s my observation tho could be wrong.