#Foil!Papyrus

[lancer-fan-club-was-taken]

i'm gonna be so controversial and say that papyrus doesn't view undyne as a friend, i think he views her as a second older sibling.

[kkoct-ik]

i love containing multitudes because somehow both papyrus (a loud egotistical skeleton with autism) and angus (a reserved gay bear with deadface) are characters that represent me very very well

[sunny-knight]

I know this isn’t canon in undertale or this au, but just imagining Papyrus knowing about resets to an extent because part of him was split across time and space, and he just hides that from everyone so he can be “everyone’s good old innocent Papyrus with 0 problems” is such a fun idea to me.

I HAVE SO MANY THOUGHTS ON THIS THOUGH- BECAUSE WHAT IF IT WAS CANON???

Excuse me while I use this to make an analysis of Papyrus’ character- i didn’t choose this life. This happened to me.

PAPYRUS AND RESETS.

The main question I ask on the debate of if Papyrus is aware of resets or not, is…if Papyrus, as we know him…doesn’t know about resets…Then would learning about that…change ANYTHING about the way he is now?

The most obvious trait of Papyrus is that he’s INCREDIBLY optimistic. He’s one to go in with his head held high, and keep it raised for basically his entire life. Everything he does is incredibly light hearted, and this leads to a lot of accidental flanderization and misremembering of his character. But to get more into that, I wanna address how Papyrus and Sans contrast and are foils to one another. They are complete polar opposites…and yet… SO alike. In their little bits they do in the Snowdin Forest puzzles, Sans doesn’t take anything seriously, while Papyrus takes EVERYTHING seriously, but in the end it’s all light hearted. I know some of that comes from just the games general tone, but I like to think some of it is part of their genuine character.

Analyzing characters in Undertale can sometimes be a tad frustrating in that way, since its hard to tell which jokes have meaning and which jokes are just jokes.

But back to my original point, Papyrus sometimes gets very mad, sometimes very confused, but seems to either flip on a switch with anger, or just roll with confusion, as seen with Papyrus being “mad” at Sans, or confused at what Undyne is saying on certain phone calls. He’s just naturally a very happy person.

Thats where the common trope of Papyrus lying about everything and actually being a completely different person from whats shown in the game comes in. I think thats inherently a tad silly, since “I lied.” is a bit of a lazy twist. THATS NOT TO SAY HES NOT DEFINITELY GOT SOME WEIRD SUSPICIOUS THINGS ABOUT HIM Its just to throw all of his actions in the game out the window in favor of “he was acting” “he was lying” is not how I like to analyze him (but if you do, more power to ya :D) (Some also argue that Sans is just like that, but I disagree since in the geno route when its properly revealed just how much he knows about resets, it completely makes sense and is more like an answer to a question we had for the longest time. WHAT does he know?? cause he clearly knows something. Additionally, in that fight, Sans doesn’t at all come across as a completely different person, its more like we’re getting to know him better. See a side that he’s buried for the longest time since he never thought it would come to this. Or at least hopes to god it wouldn’t)

Papyrus’ optimism/pacifism both comes across as naive, and extremely admirable. It takes different forms in different settings and perspectives, Flowey dismisses it as stupid, but thats because he’s Flowey- Sans genuinely admires it for several reasons which ill get into later! And Undyne…uhh…honestly i cant tell how she feels about that, just that she cares an awful lot about him and thinks itll get him killed one day (*cries vehemently*)

But my main point here is in the usual game/pacifist route, its very clearly established that Papyrus has a heart of gold and sometimes that can get exploited on how he is the one constant moving factor to help the route actually happen in helping Flowey set everything up. It’s lowkey giving foreshadowing on how he may be the knight in deltarune because of- OKAY OKAY- PUT DOWN THE GUN

Getting exploited is one of the downsides we see in the pacifist route, but in the geno, we get a VERY clear look into how far he is willing to take his faith in others. His willingness to see good in people is tested, and its established he doesn’t have a single distrustful bone in his body, always believing in people to change. It’s never “too late”. Even after you kill him too

This is HOW Papyrus would know about resets comes in

The King Papyrus ending is a moment in the game that I have many opinions on that disagree with a LOT with a big portion of the fandom (at least last time I checked)

Papyrus not being told about his friend's death, leads to 2 big assumptions about his GENERAL CHARACTER THAT I DISAGREE WITH. Sans lies to Papyrus on a daily basis, and Papyrus doesnt understand what death is. These are things that work in to fit every day life, and are proven by happening WHEN ALL OF HIS FRIENDS ARE DEAD 😭

I feel these are more a result of Papyrus’ unwavering trust, which can be certainly admired in a lot of ways, but of course, used, too. Even if people agree with me on that unwavering trust part, people still use that as ammunition for Sans lying to him being an often occurrence. But- Sans… right now- is being put in a REALLY bad spot. Telling his brother to his face that all his friends are dead isn't something I think anyone wants to do. So, him lying to Papyrus isn’t exactly proof that he thinks little of him in any way, it's more his desire to protect a person he loves from knowing a horrible truth, and having the opportunity to do so on a silver fukn platter. But even then it feels like Papyrus still knows…he’d just rather accept whatever Sans tells him. Thats Papyrus’ ONE AND ONLY FLAW

Papyrus also seems like he naturally thinks very black and white? and by black and white I mean only white.

The common consensus on his character is he only SEES good, but just like the assumption of how things work in daily life being attached to how these characters act when someone comes down and kills all their loved ones, I think thats working on a very surface level character-moral-compass. Its not that he only sees the good, its that he believes in the good no matter what. There may be bad, but good can and will, prevail

Papyrus sees and knows that people have the ABILITY to lie, he just also believes they are telling the truth when they say something like “I promise this is 100% true” because he still trusts everyone, and trusts himself to handle whatever happens as a result.

Papyrus sees that the world may never truly have an ending, but he believes that things will turn out eventually.

Papyrus is not stupid, he’s optimistic.

and also autistic

[sovlstr]

🦴Donfell!Papyrus⚜️

—————————————-

Read CH.7 featuring Boss here 🥀

PAPYRUS GASTER

Paps/Boss

Age: 27

B/D: 1907

Race: Skeleton Monster

Personality: Dutiful, Ambitious, Logical perfectionist

MBTI: Nietzsche Existentialism ESTJ(Extraverted, Sensing, Thinking, Judging)

Soul: Monster

•

Flaw 1: Bound by rigid perfectionism, Papyrus strives towards impossibly high standards, his rigidity leaving little room for mistakes and creating high rates of over-criticism.

Flaw 2: His over-dependence on authority leads him to seek validation from perceived higher-ups, adopting their ideals without questioning.

Flaw 3: His upbringing and trauma leads to heavy emotional detachment, often struggling to express vulnerability. His stoicism comes across as cold and alienates those who care about him.

Flaw 4: Portrays an unconscious arrogance from being groomed as an “ideal leader”; adopts a condescending attitude towards those deemed irresponsible or unapproving. This arrogance stems from his insecurities but creates significant friction in most ventures of livelihood.

•

Undermined Firstborn- Someone trapped by expectations and struggling to reconcile individuality with the role he’s forced to adapt. Serves as a foil and shadow to Sans, his brother embraces “freedom” and rejects authority to emphasize dominance whereas Papyrus clings to structure and approval.

•

Transvaluation of values: The idea that people should independently decide what is good and evil.
Perspectivism: The idea that truth is subjective and comes from each person's perception.
Relativism: The idea that morality is subjective and comes from each person's concept of truth.


—————————————

There is a Golden Curse for the Gaster family. True, gold may be an adhered symbol of class for many mobsters and monsters alike, but to each family, is its own significance. The Gaster families hold had little to do with wealth and income but in power.

There is an apparition of deformity inside the skeletons magic; it is an intrusion, one that upon injury, healed scars form a gold filling cellular growth over the wound. For a more depictive instance, Papyrus Gaster sports a particularly flaunty golden jaw. The reason for this jaw is not due to his magic, however- the powers of the gold is only formed at a certain age of 11, or remotely triggered under extreme conditions. As a child during the “Siege of the Underground”, the implementation of trench warfare and militarism disputes was a large last resort for the unfamiliar army of the United States. The aftermath would be the youngest skeleton placed to be in a medical coma after a dense direct explosion destroyed the lower jaw and collar area of his body. At such a weak state and young age, to heal such a severe injury on his own, the 2 were recollected by the W.D. Gaster and taken as as his most estranged remaining family.

With Papyrus unable to recover properly, Wingdings finally stepped in to help his grandchildren, after much begging and force from the distraught yet determined oldest sibling of 11-15. Teaching a young boy who’d seen nothing but death and displacement to weld metal and gold was a troublesome task but it was completed after months time of severe crisis during the war. While Papyrus lingered in his fragile state teetering on life, the magic of his soul was leaking ever so slowly throughout the period. Whilst his speaking abilities were retained certain parts of his soul had been dusted to nothing- reducing his power and healing abilities to little of what’ve have previously been. This is the first incident that truly allows Wings his first perspective into their heritages power- why all skeletons often bear golden “fillings” over their scar much akin to tooth fillings.

Despite all this, you may ask why skeletons are such a rare occurrence in most canon? The gold health formed from their scarred bones serves as a conduit for their soul’s magic, a prevention from the magic “leaking”. Without this natural plug, their magic would dissipate like a human’s life force. Extracting this essence can be extremely valuable— enhancing natural abilities, providing natural source of magic power, can be modified into magic based treatments, and even forged into other conduits.

The sickly mother’s death of the 2 skeleton orphans hold a high truth to the boys most shadowed grandfather, one being Wingdings Gaster, a true scientist who sought to understand the species unique properties. His knowledge drove him to experimentation on the only skeletons left, in the means of unlocking its potential. It is said, as for why the man carries so much grief yet indifference, that each mark of his gold is toiled with the blood of monsters and humans alike, forming the drive towards his own kingdoms near annihilation of 1916.

—————————————

[sukifoof]

god thats the thing that always gets me about asgore desperately trying to figure out the pie recipe and new home being entirely gray except for the flowers. his family is gone and hes desperately trying to keep what's left of them with him and its like he really is just moving through life because it's his duty and i'm sure chara felt the same way given their. everything. and what they say at the end of no mercy. while toriel and flowey are constantly trying to relive the past and fix the mistakes they think they made.... toriel is so worried anything will happen to frisk because of what happened to asriel and chara and flowey wants to keep frisk there to keep chara from "leaving" again ... ough the dreemurrs make me emotional

sometimes i think about how flowey and toriel have the same character arc and the thing that separates them is toriels choice to embrace those who remind her of what she lost and the way flowey fully shuts everything out because of his trauma... i really love that both are shown to put up walls but toriel decides it's worth it to keep loving despite what she lost and flowey pushes away love and thinks he's a monster for a natural reaction to trauma and i just. ough. the way flowey talks about toriel and says she can't even take care of herself is such a reflection on the way he views himself and how he feels like he failed chara. his whole thing is "wouldn't it just be easier to deal with the pain of grief if you simply refused to feel it" and toriel never once stops missing her children. they're both grieving and one wallows in it and the other tries to ignore it but they're both in a cycle where they have to learn to move on and live their lives as who they are now do u guys get it (imagine i am biting my chair out of undertale autism)

[alyimoss]

horrortale king papyrus "ending", aka what happens if horror joins nightmare

i was thinking of making this into a fic or smthn but idk when ill get to that so. nevermind that im just gonna make a post. lotta yapping ahead. (word count: 1972)

so, i see a lot of people, when including horror in nightmares pantheon, say that he was either a) abducted against his will, or b) coerced by food, both for himself and his world. and i dont have much against the first interpretation, but the second… something's bothered me about it for a while, and its the simple fact that canon horror isnt that selfless. if nightmare were to offer him a deal, he would first and foremost be thinking about his own interests (he has already proven to be this kind of person in the comics).

so i instead think that were nm to offer him a deal, horror would only agree to a specific multi-part deal. and the first part? undyne's death.

we already know the whole "eating humans" thing was moreso to spite undyne and foil whatever plans she has than to help the residents of snowdin, shown by the fact that sans himself doesnt eat humans and that he urges everyone to keep this a secret from undyne and the rest of the underground. if a mysterious, powerful entity suddenly appeared and asked horror for his servitude in exchange for something he wants, a "mutually beneficial deal", i guarantee you that first and foremost he would think of undyne. of the traitor who sacrificed him "for the greater good".

and he would get that. i dont know if he would prefer to kill her himself or let nightmare to the dirty work, but either way, its not a hard thing for someone as powerful as him to do. only after his final act of revenge is certified does he think about everything else. with undyne gone, the underground would be left without a ruler, and things would likely get even more chaotic than usual. plus, they would still be left without food and without power.

i think hed ask for their CORE to be repaired or something else to be done about the power and magic situation going on in the underground first, but. i see this as something out of nightmare's range. hes not exactly a mechanic, and he doesnt want to waste time and energy getting someone who is just for another underling. so horror compromises on just food. regular deliveries of enough to feed all the monsters left in the underground. and this is a bit tedious, but still doable, and nightmare would likely agree.

but theres still one more part to the deal, and that is an opportunity to set a plan in motion.

with undyne out of the picture, someone would need to take control. and sans has the perfect idea of who.

the monster who has kept snowdin fed for years; who reported to undyne and mediated when her temper flared up; who kept up the puzzles and security around snowdin; who tried to keep the others' spirits up even when times were darkest…

thats right. he wants papyrus in charge.

i often see ht papyrus being portrayed in fandom as kind of a dope. someone innocent despite his creepy appearance and still rather incompetent. and this frustrates me because hes anything but. hunger, death, murder… all have taken their toll on him, and hes certainly not fine or completely sane. but id say hes arguably the sanest out of all the monsters weve seen in the comic so far (other than flowey and mettaton, i suppose… though mettaton is uncertain since weve only seen him in the past). hes also shown handling a lot of responsibilities, like the previously-mentioned providing of food and mediating when undyne goes too far. this applies to his brother, too, who was also known for having a temper. horrortale papyrus is still pretty cheery, but hes less idealistic, more responsible…

anyway, all that to say that 1) horrortale papyrus is horribly underrated and idk why because i love him dearly, and 2) between the reasons above and the fact that he's his brother, i think sans would consider him a perfect next-in-line. plus, all this power and respect and recognition… werent these all things he yearned for?

so before he leaves with nightmare, he does a little manipulating of the playing field. i dont know what this would be, honestly. talking papyrus up to others? making sure other monsters are aware of his capability and his kindness and his resolve? i dont know. but he does it. and after hes gone and undynes death is discovered, papyrus is chosen as the next king.

and you know what? i dont think he would want that.

because hes already gotten a taste of his "respect and recognition" via being an important figure in snowdin, and its been nothing but hell the whole time. hes exhausted. hes not one to be lazy or give up, but even a guy like him has his limits, and frankly hes probably reached them a long time ago. but the people desperately need a leader… and he cant exactly deny them. reluctantly, he agrees.

maybe a week into his rule, a miracle happens. food appears.

no-one knows where its from, but no-one can really care. "dont look a gift horse in the mouth" or whatever. the royal guard has to tear ravenous monsters away from the food in an attempt to save some to be rationed out. some guards undoubtedly succumb to the temptation themselves. but a good amount is saved and rationed. and the people look to papyrus with a new kind of reverence.

because how is it possible? under undynes rule, everything went to shit, and despite the years of promises, nothing was ever fixed. but as soon as papyrus take control, they get food, a good, livable amount of food, for the first time in years. theres hushed whispers that there must be a higher power involved. some seem to view papyrus himself as that higher power. the support for him grows from acceptance to wild endorsement. parents able to save their children thanks to the food cry and promise him unyielding loyalty. monsters who had all but accepted their deaths and met with a miracle instead fall at his feet. some compliments are backhanded: "i thought you would just be a useless stand-in, but youve actually saved us!!"

and papyrus smiles tightly at them all as panic mounts inside him. what will happen once this food runs out? will more appear? what if it doesnt?

but it does. it appears consistently, on a schedule. the people rejoice every time. but papyrus still finds himself fearing every day. barely able to rest amidst his panic. being king is a lot of responsibility, and he finds himself constantly overworking, so, so tired… but hes still putting on a smile for the public and assuring them that everything is okay.

with a consistent source of food, hes able to focus on other problems, such as getting monsters treatment for the effects of this hell that theyve been living in for so long and restoring the core. he's constantly meeting with different monsters, doing paperwork, handling this matter and that…

hes not alone. toriel would help him, i think. she knows what being a ruler is like, after all, and he is her good friend. but i dont know if other monsters, who rejected her as their queen, would be thrilled to have her even as an advisor. if mettaton is still sane, perhaps he would help, too, in whatever ways that he can. but papyrus still feels this… absense.

because his brother isnt there.

he never told anyone where he was going or what was happening. the most papyrus knows is that hes sure this all has to do with him somehow. but nothing else. not how, not to what extent. not whether hes even alive.

and for this one reason i think he would be so much more tired, so much more miserable. hes lost his only family, his support. the brothers' relationship in horrortale is pretty clearly strained, but theyre still shown to be close because, well, theyre family. theyve always been close. always helped each other. they were always there when the other needed to get something off his chest or get help. they kept a lot of secrets even from each other, yes, but im willing to bet that number's a whole lot less than the number they keep from others. what im getting at is that sans and papyrus are extremely important parts of each others lives, and one losing the other is a huge and unbearable change.

…and yet, with growing pangs of horror (ha) and guilt, papyrus finds that he doesnt know if its really much different now.

hes lost his biggest support, the one person he could tell almost anything to. but really he lost him years ago. for a long time, hes kept more secrets, done more work, put up with so much not to agitate his brother… even through his love, i think there was a mounting resentment and aversion to him… and he finds that with sans gone, he really gets about the same amount done. maybe more, actually, now with food and with toriel's help. and its a horrifying realization to him because thats not how he wants to think of his brother!

he did his best. he did help them, even if it was through backhanded and frankly horrible methods. his personality was a result of the hunger and that wound. if he was here, hed likely be more like his old self now that food is finally available. his brother isnt a bad person. he cant be, because papyrus cant handle that thought. but that resentment is unresolved. he feels abandoned. he doesnt know what emotion to feel. he prefers to just not think about it after a certain while.

and its the same with undyne. he misses her, he misses his friend. but she's been gone for years, too. when he thinks of her, he cant help but feel fear and anger. and thats not what he wants, either. he doesnt think of her, either.

and so hes left to rule in misery. roaming the unnaturally empty underground with the entirety of monsterkind praising his empty step. he has help, he has friends, but he still tries to handle everything himself. hes so tired that he doesnt even lie down because he doesnt know if he'll be able to get up. hes so stressed. even though they now have food, he barely eats. his eyesockets seem to sink somehow deeper into his skull. for the leader of a people finally recovering from devastation, he looks like hes only getting worse, and really he is. every day drains him more and more, and though he pushes himself to persevere for the sake of the people, he doesnt know how long he can go on.

doing what he thought was best, sans doomed his brother. if he ever goes back to his au to visit or something, he would see that first-hand. i think he'd struggle to accept it. would just run away. try to convince himself that he did what was right even as the guilt burns at his ribs.

this deal turns out more beneficial for nightmare than horror. nightmare gets a servant and a new source of negativity through ht papyrus (and though it would also spread a lot of positivity, i think its so little when compared to the whole mutliverse that nm finds it an acceptable trade and that some "positive" feelings, like the kind of god-like reverence some monsters in horrortale have for papyrus, are actually quite negative and feed him still), and horror gets to better his underground by sacrificing the only monster he probably bothered to care about: papyrus.

anyway. horrortale king papyrus. thats it thats all im gonna say goodnight

[carlyraejepsans]

Reverse Unpopular Opinion on Undyne?

genuinely incredibly fun character. i love how she both compliments Asgore's crushing idolization and mirrors Toriel's idealism and savior complex, while all the same foiling both of them as a presence in the story. people grasp her purpose as a breakdown of the mythological hero type character, but they don't usually go further than that, and i think it's a huge pity!

not to mention of course the way she was physically made in a lab to bounce off of Papyrus' dialogue. they have such good chemistry together, i don't think i could ever tire of seeing her on-screen

[lynxgriffin]

Since we've got plenty of time to reflect, who do you the Knight is? (I'm very much hoping it's Papyrus)

Okay! So! 

While I uh, think that Jaru is super wrong on almost all his theories, I've got one major exception where I think he is correct, and that’s the identity of the Knight:

(This is kinda long, so going under the read more)

Namely, that the Knight is Gerson’s soul tied to a particular object and brought to life in the Dark World. Although for me personally, I’m going to tweak that idea quite a bit because I think it can actually tie in really nicely with my current theories on Ralsei’s identity and nature. 

We keep getting little references to Gerson brought up here and there in both chapters: there’s a drawing of a turtle monster in the abandoned classroom, done by Alvin. It’s presumably either Alvin himself or his dad, Gerson, and I’m guessing it’s the latter. We have books written by Gerson in multiple places, a memorial bench for him, and then Alvin’s conversation about him in the graveyard by his headstone. Alvin also mumbles something about “did I do the right thing?” to Gerson’s grave. As long as you initiate a conversation with Alvin, the game makes sure that you don't miss that extra bit, which is a little telling.

We know that Gerson was originally a historian, and then later turned to writing fiction, and wrote a beloved fiction series that fans still send his family letters about after his death. 

What do we know about the nature of the Dark Worlds? They’re basically imagination and fantasy brought to life. While they certainly seem to have a full history outside of what we experience, with characters that remember each other even from other Dark Worlds, they’re only “given form” when a dark fountain is opened. Any Lightner with determination can stab the earth, and a dark, inky substance can spew from it and give a world of fantasy its own form. The Darkners frequently talk about how Lightners give them direction and purpose in their lives.

So…question! How many of you have used a fountain pen?

I have used those before. They’re quite sharp, and using them very often feels like scratching or stabbing the paper. Black ink spews forth, and from this black ink…you can create whole worlds of fiction! Worlds that other people can interact with! 

We know that Gerson wrote beloved fiction well into his old age. What if he knew his time was coming, but still had stories to tell? What if he didn’t want to stop? Alvin says how his dust was sprinkled on a hammer and buried in the earth, and that this is considered the appropriate monster cultural ritual for helping a soul pass to the afterlife. But Alvin also appears to have done something that is still really troubling him. Maybe Alvin, either at his father's request or based on his own wants, didn’t actually follow the appropriate cultural funeral rites, and somehow helped his father’s soul attach to a different beloved object…a fountain pen that he’d use to write down his story ideas. And if that object gets brought to life with a dark fountain, you could get the Knight: the soul of a writer, filtered exclusively through their favorite writing tool, unwilling to stop creating.

I think it would make sense on a few logical and thematic levels:

It explains how the Knight is able to get around and open the fountains: the same way that Ralsei is able to do the weird things he does. They’re both Darkners carrying Lightner souls, so they can bend the rules.

It explains Queen’s insistence that Lightners are the ones that can create fountains, while King hates Lightners but seems to fully trust the Knight…a Darkner with a Lightner soul can meet both those people's expectations.  

It sets up the Knight as a foil to Ralsei: they’re both the same kind of special Dark World being, both believing that they are fulfilling their roles and serving the Lightners, but coming to vastly different conclusions about how to do that. 

It explains the Knight’s motivations: not that he’s actually trying to destroy the world or anything, but that he’s trying to serve the Lightners. He knows very well how much joy and positivity his fiction has brought to Lightners in the past. How could more of that be anything bad? This is his purpose, what he was made to do. Not doing it is virtually unthinkable.

And I think that in turn keeps him following in the footsteps of how Toby usually writes his villains…rarely if ever fully malicious, but utterly convinced that they’re doing the right thing, or that they have no choice in the matter. 

And of course that ties in with one of Deltarune’s themes: the balance between reality and fantasy. The Knight has no more ties with reality, and therefore is focused exclusively on creating more fantasy and having it supplant reality, upsetting the balance between them. 

And this is extremely speculative, but I've been thinking about how Toby mentioned that chapter three will be a bit of an odd one out, that it's more about trying weird things than advancing a lot of plot. Kind of an interesting thing to note since Kris just made a fountain that should take us into chapter three. If the Dark Worlds are in some way shaped by the will of the Lightner that makes them, then chapter three indicates that Kris's will manifests more as just...trying out stuff rather than something purposeful. Kris makes a fountain because they really want to keep up this special hangout with their friends. But the Knight? He's making narratives.

[utdrmv-confession-box]

Transcript: I think it's really neat how many duos exist in undertale and how all of them can be read as parallels or foils for chara & asriel. Toriel & asgore are the most talked about ones but sans &Papyrus and undyne& alphys very much are so too. Mettaton & Mad mew mew are another one I've never seen talked about but I think if chara & asriel where revived their relationship would be very similar to mtts and mews one in ut

Frisk can also be compared to being the third in the trio too (napstablook, alphys w/bratty &catty, undyne w/sans and Papyrus, idk how to properly explain it but I think the analysis heads will get what I mean)

[justali-anne]

Sans and Flowey are such foils.

Like, they have a lot more in common than you'd think.

They're both trolls, they both have a sort of "silly/serious" switch (Sans' one is more obvious, Flowey switches between his "nice"/silly persona and his sadist/nihilistic self), they're both aware of timelines and resets (albeit to different extents), and then there's their connections with Papyrus. Even their introductions sound the same!

I mean, come on, they were CLEARLY intended to be foils!

You know what would be interesting? A story about the very beginning of the resets. As in, Flowey's resets. And it switches POV between the two of them, and we get to watch them slowly break down into what they are today.

Until one of them no longer cares about anyONE, and the other no longer cares about anyTHING.

That would be interesting to see.

[reginalusus]

I feel like people trying to justifying 'hating' Spamton usually come up with the one of the two excuses: "he's so popular, I'm just sick of him," - which I think is a very silly (albeit innocent) reason, sorry - or "he's not interesting or significant enough in the game to warrant the popularity."

I disagree.

For the record, before I continue, I couldn't give less of a fuck if you don't like him, lmao, you do you, BBG (why are you looking at my blog in the first place? You'll die of vex! I'm a big ol' simp). There are popular characters in other media I also don't like but I don't have the time or energy to go around boasting why I dislike them. Reality is depressing enough, I'd much rather focus on stuff I actually like.

Anyway.

While I do agree that Spamton probably isn't major in terms of the entire canon of Deltarune, I feel like there's so much nuance to him that it's kind of incredible. People seem to forget about the sweepstakes.

I don't need to go into his backstory. We all know about that and it's one of the main draws of him. He's a tragic, relatable, timeless character, and while his popularity will wane while we enjoy the other chapters, I still feel like this fandom will still love and talk about him, much like how the Undertale fandom still loves and fixates on Sans, Papyrus and Mettaton in particular. At least, I will, lol. And this is coming from someone who doesn't get attached to characters easily, at all. Not to this extent.

Anyway, continuing on with the 'nuance, interesting' point:

I've spoken about this before, time and time again, but the fact that Spamton is a direct foil to Kris, knows about souls, knows about how this world works (and is horrified by it) just seems pretty major to me, IDK. That's not even delving into the sweepstakes.

I know the whole interaction between Spamton and Noelle is kind of speculation, so I'm just going off what I've seen and read what other people have discussed in regards to these two here:

The idea that Noelle and Spamton have spoken to one another and have (maybe) discussed Dess (speculatively), is just mind-blowing to me. Dess still has a huge question mark over their head. We don't know anything about them except that they're missing, but the fact that Spamton knows some stuff (speculatively) because of Noelle just... I don't have any words. The fact that Spamton thinks Noelle is the Angel (something we know is important in the lore) is fascinating to me.

Perhaps Spamton is just a stepping stone to what other secret bosses may elaborate on in future chapters. Realistically, that's probably the case.

But Spamton himself and the dynamic between he and Kris will ALWAYS stick with me, no matter how good the other secret bosses are. The Snowgrave Spamton fight has a permanent burn mark in my brain. I will never get the image of Kris being canonically traumatised by this man out of my head.

The fact that Spamton was sort of the first character to reveal the existential horrors that the world of Deltarune entails is remarkable to me. Yes, Jevil sort of did it first, but nowhere near to the extent and depth Spamton did.

Anyway, self-indulgent discussion over. I hope we do see our beloved salesman again (we probably won't, and if we do, it most likely won't be until the end). I know he's just chilling in Kris's pocket right now with Jevil. But I have an image that in Chapter 7, we'll see all the secret bosses again. Maybe.

Maybe we'll get a cutscene sort of like the True Pacifist cutscene at the very end of Undertale, where we see all the monsters enjoying their new lives above ground. Maybe we'll see the secret bosses be happy. Maybe we'll see Jevil reunite with Seam. Maybe we'll see Spamton finally making it as a salesman again, and reconnecting with the Addisons. IDK.

Anyway, can you tell I fucking love Spamton.

[ratsoh-writes]

Skelly is on an ice cream date at the pier/Beach/(not near the water but you can see it in the distance). Things seem to be going good, so they look away (not guilty at all) but casually reach for their date's hand to hold.

Instead of a hand, they are greeted with a warm wet tongue. It's Mermaid the dog! The doggo wants affection and ice cream and they have both!

Honey, Green, Mutt, Sans, Rhythm, Rowdy, Jasper, Finn, Hilda, Oak

For those who don’t know, mermaid is a golden retriever owned by sails (seaswap papyrus)

Honey: he’s immediately cooing over the golden retriever. She’s just so cuddly and happy, and she’s smiling!!! Of course the dog gets a lick of his ice cream cone and many pats. It’s what she deserves

Green: he jumps hard feeling a dogs tongue on his hand. He relaxes seeing it’s clearly a friendly pet, and tries to gently shoo mermaid away. He won’t feed a dog he doesn’t know

Mutt: he saw the dog coming a mile away, but still lets mermaid approach because puppy! Mutt is a huge animal lover. Soon enough he has the sweetie in his lap panting happily as mutt scratches behind her ears.

Sans: mermaid doesn’t get the chance to lick his hand. Sans moved out of the way. So instead she licks his date. Of course sans makes the appropriate dog themed puns as he date showers affection on the Goldie. Mermaid is a welcome guest

Rhythm: he jumps when his hand is randomly licked, the groans in annoyance when mermaid chooses to jump up and try to give him a kiss. Rhythm is wearing a nice dark green shirt today and she’s getting blonde dog fur all over it! The puppy is gently shooed away

Rowdy: he has a lot of experience with dogs, so rowdy takes his dates ice cream cone along with his and holds them up in the nick of time. Mermaid is quite put out she can’t sneak a bite. Her evil plan has been foiled lol

Jasper: he knows mermaid! As friends with her owner sails, Jasper has met the doggo many times before. He excitedly opens his arms for mermaid to jump into, then eagerly shows his date some of her tricks, using the ice cream as a bribe lol

Finn: mermaid is his brothers dog, and she often has free range of the section of beach where he and his brother live. So it’s not unusual for her to join him on these beach walks. Finn is more than happy to introduce his date to the adorable golden retriever.

Hilda: alright, this dog is cute, but is it cool too?? Hilda pulls out a frisbee out of seemingly nowhere and throws it at full force. Mermaid is off like a rocket. The golden retriever runs with all her light and manages to catch the frisbee perfectly. Hilda has now labelled mermaid as the coolest dog

Oak: animals just gravitate towards oak, so he’s not surprised that his date is interrupted by a dog. It already got interrupted by two local cats earlier, and a pelican lol. Of course oak and his date have to stop and lather the sweetie in love. She’s just such a polite puppy!

[thechildoffandoms95]

mini comic mainly on hc's about dust (transcript +rambles under cut) (as usual, I'll consider drawing/rendering the comic completely if it get's 30 notes) dust + phantom papyrus belongs to ask-dusttale horror belongs to sour apple studios nm belongs to jokublog killer belongs to rahafwabas

Rambles: I feel like Dust would be pretty horrible at taking care of himself- and that seems to be the general consensus of the fandom, but I think he'd also purposely dehydrate himself so he doesn't cry. Why? A) if he finally understands his delusional killing wasn't actually helping he'd probably think he deserves to drink water/cry and/or B) if he's still in the delusion. He doesn't want the others to think he's weak/ doesn't want to admit he DOES feel bad about everything, instead he wants people think he's fine and doesn't feel anything (kind of like Killer, in a way) . And I feel like he'd cry if he started drinking water- because if you're dehydrated enough you can't cry, but once you start drinking enough water it'll start flooding out and your body will try to regulate your stress with excessive crying. Another thing this does is make Dust and Killer a better foil to each other. I personally think they'd make great foils to each other! And I just haven't seen anyone do that (me personally I have not seen it- please don't cancel me..). I'm planning to make another minicomic explaining/showing why they'd be great foils to each other, but the main reason is because they share almost identical lives, but they see both the player and their actions very differently. I also generally feel like he's a smoker- I can't explain why, but it matches his constant dusty appearance, so instead of it just being dust (because let's be real- after a couple washes in the laundromat there wouldn't be any more dust since Nightmare's against killing and most people assume Dust's world is completely abandoned by the player/destroyed) it's also smoke ash. And it would help him seem less emotional. Hence, why I gave him some wobbly text, heavy smokers tend to have a more gravely/scratchy voice because smoking damages your vocal chords. PSA TO NOT SMOKE!

Another thing about Dust's world. I don't really get why people think it gets destroyed? Maybe it's somewhere in the cannon askblog that I haven't seen yet, but from what I know I don't think it makes sense- since it kinda seems like the human just gave up because he became too hard to beat, so he's just been waiting ever since. And it'd make more sense if he kept visiting every once in awhile to see if the human came back to reset the world or to have one last fight- because if such a goal driven person like him is suddenly stripped of the ability to fulfill the goal after so much sacrifice there would be no point to life anymore unless a new goal is reinstated to him. That's where I personally believe Nightmare would come in and tell Dust about the emotion balance that needs to occur for the best life for all au's (which is true, since he can only speak the truth) to which then he'd ask Dust to keep being a 'hero' in a new way- by helping him spread negativity. Of course, he'd keep the detail that he's actually way more powerful then Dream out of his explanation.

As for why I chose to have Nightmare transform into Toriel second/last instead of Papyrus- I think Dust would be a little more numb to Papyrus affecting him. While yes, that's what drove him over the edge and manifested into his main hallucination- he's been living with phantom papyrus for much longer and would likely have grown less susceptible to Papyri's (is that the plural form?-) suggestions/words. So, the second closest to Sans would be Toriel, firstly because in Undertale he spends the majority of the true ending dialogue with her as they playfully text each other. The other reason, the main one, is because the opening for the cannon (and I believe first?) dusttale fanfic starts with them talking to each other (unless I translated it horribly wrong :skull: .. i hope not).

Some other hc's I put in here is Nightmare knowing Dust has the phantom papyrus hallucination- that seems to be a general thing for most people in the fandom though. Building on that- because he knows he'd come to the same conclusion I did in the last paragraph. I also see a lot of people make Nightmare really nice????? I don't think he would be, personally. He wants to make people as miserable as possible to feed himself- he's also selfish (I mean he's as jaded as they come and jaded people are usually pretty self serving) and would probably treat everyone shitty enough that they feel annoyed, but well enough that they give him what he wants. You may argue that him scaring Dust into drinking water is tough love, but I think he'd do it mostly because he needs his subordinates to be able to do his work- and if they're dehydrated, they're not going to be able to do it. On a much sweeter hc, I think Horror would treat Dust like a younger version of himself (I mean he is in a physical sense- and also Dust is more Undertale-cannon adjacent then the other sans' in the gang in both looks and dialect) which would be somewhat brotherly, so he'd try to give him some water bottles if he notices Dust's feelin a little dizzy or if he's just passed out. And other sweet and cute stuff that Dust would greatly appreciate. Transcript: Horror: "ya passed out again. how bout some water so we don't dew that again?" Dust: "thanks, pal" H: "nah, no prob."

"drink up, man" D: "yeah...." shut -- tp---tp----tp wobble wobble

click click Nightmare: "Not going to accept his gift?" crunch- D: "i did" "just didn't want to take a splash

just yet." click click fwoooooo Nm: "well..." "Let's put it this way,

(mimics Papyrus' voice/font) SANS || HOW CAN YOU SAVE ME? || (mimics Toriel's voice) || * or even || ||* me?|| ||* If you keep passing out, old friend?||

waggle waggle

Nm (reg voice): "Your monthly visit 'home' is in a week."

D: ". . ."

"c#nt" ~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~

~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~ ~~~ ~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~ "yeah... you're worth the tears, bro." "you always are..."

[lancer-fan-club-was-taken]

it's honestly so clever that flowey's favorite monster is papyrus, besides the parallels between pap and chara, flowey is meant to be a mirror/foil to sans.

and whose the only monster sans cares about? papyrus.

same with chara's favorite monster presumably being undyne.

genius.

[chacochilla]

I just remembered I have a blog and can post whatever I want fuck you Knight ramble

So to establish what we know/my HCs about the Knight. First off I think the second voice that interrupts Goner Maker and (somehow) shoves the soul into Kris was the Knight. Judging by this we can assume that Gaster and the Knight are opposed to each other. After Goner Maker, the Knight made the Card Kingdom dark world, and I believe entered it and enlisted King to guard the fountain.

After that we have chapter 2. People are generally split on whether this fountain was made the night before chapter 2, or during chapter 2, after Noelle gives Susie the chalk. I believe the latter, with the course of events being the Knight hiding in the closet, waiting until Berdly and Noelle fall asleep, making the fountain, and leaving before Susie and Kris show up the library.

Lastly some notable things. They have a hand, use a blade, Toby mentions an intro cutscene where they're the final boss looking down from atop a staircase, their fountains make their respective main bosses more aggressive and authoritarian/controlling, and are associated with 'communion'. Let's get into some candidates now

Mayor Knight is who I believe is most likely. She has motivation (finding Dess), she's already built up as scary, she has direct ties to Kris and Noelle, and her being the main antag would be a natural way to incorporate her into the main plot. Plus her being a mother could contrast the chapter 3 adventure with Toriel and be interesting for Susie given that she at the very least has a bad relationship with her parents. The Holiday family also has ties to the church, given that they regularly attend, explaining Spamton's [Communion] and the Knight's ties to the Angel. It would be a little odd of her to put the red soul into Kris. From what we know, she's a cold woman who's had a falling out with the Dreemurrs, but even then, hard to imagine someone doing that to this kid

If it turns out she isn't the Knight, it's a little hard to see how she'd come into the main plot. I suppose she could be introduced in a church or Holiday manor dark world. She could also come out to lead the town during the Roaring. I think regardless of where she comes in, her introduction will establish her as a cold person who asks a lot of Noelle.

Dess is also a potential Knight candidate. She has stronger narrative relevance, also has an established connection to religion, would make a great foil to Kris, has strong motivation in wanting to return home. It's also just really easy to see the twist that Noelle's sister was the villain all along. That said, it's a little hard to imagine how she could make fountains around Hometown if she's stuck in the code. I suppose it's possible she's like, sparking fountains from another plain, and they're just appearing in the Light World. It's also a little odd the fountains made from her will to return home would make darkners more aggressive. Her meeting King wouldn't make much sense, unless her being in a different plain made her appear like an actual otherworldly presence, which I guess could work.

If it turns out she isn't the Knight, I think she could still serve an important role alongside another candidate. To put it into Undertale terms, I think the Knight would be like the the Asgore equivalent boss we hear about throughout the game whose actions are those that actively cause conflict within the story, while Dess will be more like the Asriel equivalent, or the final boss who's kinda in the background the whole time. I would prefer this set up over Dess just being the Knight because I like more characters than less, and Dess' plot importance is assured.

Papyrus is a candidate you see around a lot. He has almost zero connection to Kris, Susie, or Noelle, but he does have connection to Gaster, which is the main reason he remains a plausible candidate in my eyes. There's also been a couple potential nods to Papyrus Knight in recent official stuff. He has some motivation as being a friendless loser who'd create dark fountains to feel like a hero and befriend darkners. I do think it's a little weak as a motivation though. It's not something I can see him willingly risking the apocalypse to do like with the Mayor or Dess' possible motivations.

He also has already had the spotlight in Undertale. There are a couple mysteries surrounding the skelebros that haven't been answered in UT, which could be expanded on in DR. Especially with the implication they world hopped to Undertale.

If he isn't the Knight, I can see his hangout session Sans asks you to go on could serve plot importance by foreshadowing Gaster stuff, especially if Gaster turns out to be their dad or brother. In that way it could be similar to Onion San's weird quest. If not, it could also just be an optional side quest with not much larger plot importance, like the Mettaton side quest.

New character Knight. This is predicated on the idea that the Knight isn't supposed to be some big Whodunnit for the fandom, and that they just are their own character. I mostly enjoy this option because of my desire for ther to be more characters rather than less that I mentioned above. Dess, the Mayor, Papyrus, your preferred candidate, they are all going to exist regardless of if they are the Knight or not (Besides Oberon Smog or Undertale Chara lol). But if the Knight is their own character, then we get all those guys, plus another guy. This by definition has no evidence, I just think it would be cool

Quick rapid fire round

Gaster: I think it's unlikely because one of the only things we probably know about the Knight is they are on the opposite side of Gaster

Kris: Judging by King's non reaction to Kris and how I said I believe the chapter 2 fountain was created, I don't think they are possibly the Knight. Also I think there being an active antagonist alongside Kris struggling with the player is more likely than just focusing on the latter

Asriel: Explicitly not in town, and also you already had a game where you were the antagonist. Get outta here. Go Asriel, shoo

Any other Undertale character: Same issue as Papknight, except unlike him they don't have gaps in their story to tell, aren't world hoppers, and don't have ties to Gaster. Bad

Multi Knight: Cope

Vessel: Ehhhhhhhh maybe??? Though given that the Roaring was prophesized, I assume the Knight existed before Gaster tried to intervene, which the Vessel didn't

Alvin: Unlikely but it could be neat. Would make Berdly's death hit harder considering his working with Alvin's sister

Catti: I can maybe see it. Would be cool if the Knight was someone in Kris' class. Though I dunno if I can see her being the person in that cutscene Toby dream of

Gerson: Incredibly unlikely I think

Third entity: Would complicate the simple dynamic of Kris and the player, and would also erase a lotta Kris' agency in a way that makes the plot less interesting

Geno Chara: I don't think Deltarune is going to be Undertale 2

Geno Chara possessing Kris: See above two

Final verdict

I think Mayor Knight is the most likely candidate. I'm also gunning for new character Knight. Pap Knight and Alvin Knight would also be neat even though I don't think they will happen

[mar64ds]

Hold on, let's not roll out Knight!Papyrus just yet, these chapters have actually increased the chances in my eyes:

• While the Knight's head may have reindeer-like antlers, they moreso look like they're wearing an abstract version of Papyrus' battle body

• The Knight taking Undyne of all people vaguely ties back to her and Papyrus' friendship

• While Susie connects the shelter's pine tree symbol to the Holiday family, it could very well be a red herring and in fact reference Snowdin instead

• The Skelebros' house now explicitly having no sounds of not even the faintest of bones rattling inside is awfully suspicious now that the Knight has decided to make their first physical appearance

• The revelation that Susie hasn't been able to keep friends because she keeps moving away ties back to the Skelebros having moved into town just before the Dark World stuff started happening, making her and Papyrus narrative foils

• At least three instances where Kris, and by extension Susie and Ralsei, don't die even after being hit by the Knight's swords to the point of -999/1 HP is not unlike the only monster who has the strength to prevent even accidentally kill the player

• Sans conveniently showing up at the end of the fourth chapter in the same scene where Toriel says she cancelled choir practice, with him even brushing off her concern for Susie, maybe as a cover-up for his bro

I want to believe but it is all pointing at Dess or Carol... I think papyrus WILL be important in some other way, being a knight isn't the only way for him to matter in the story

You are very right about him and Susie being narrative foils and all my points about Papyrus having a lot of theme significance in deltarune still prevails (loneliness, escapism, Gaster, etc)

You are also right about Sans he is acting SO weird. Like I think in any other situation he would be like 'hey maybe lets stop partying I think these kids need you' but the guy just brushes it all off like what is he doing!!!!!

I think the skelebros are scheming something, because of course they are, why the hell else would they move dimensions in undertale lol