#Fansplaining

[fansplaining]

Bafflingly, there’s very little evidence of Disney trying to curb the toxic side of Star Wars fandom, a community dedicated to sabotaging Disney products and alienating potential customers. Time after time, actors of color have faced ruthless online abuse with minimal protection from the company that put them in the spotlight. It’s all very well to launch projects like The Acolyte and promote them with upbeat press tours, but what matters is the follow-through. And that half of the equation currently involves cancelling the show within weeks of its release, pissing off its fans, and leaving the lead actor to be harassed on Instagram by jeering troglodytes.

— @hellotailor in our latest article, which digs into how the recent cancellation of The Acolyte fits into the broader patterns of the Star Wars franchise. Read the whole piece—or listen to an audio version!

[that-left-turn]

You’re wrong to say Norman has nowhere else to go. His IMDB shows he’s got way more work than Melissa has since TWD started.

Hi, I expected you to show up. Let me walk you through my reasoning under the cut.

First, I wasn't comparing Norman and Melissa. That's pointless for reasons that are irrelevant to the argument I made about Norman having nowhere to go. I dislike comparisons in what isn't a level playing field, but for the sake of clarity, I will explain the situation Melissa is in too.

She's a middle-aged woman and after 30, it gets difficult to find work. She also doesn't live in LA or NY where most TV shows get produced. ATL has emerged as more of a production hub than it was 10-15 years ago, but Melissa's also older now and still a woman. It's not for lack of talent or a stellar work ethic; everyone tells stories of how generous a scene partner and how kind and funny a coworker Melissa is. That's really rare in an industry which is competitive enough for people to stab each other in the back for an advantage—relationships are transactional and everyone wants something. Due to ageism and misogyny, it's more difficult for Melissa to book jobs than it is for a male actor.

Anyway, to the actual topic.

Since you're perusing IMDb, look closer at the things Norman has worked on. It's bit parts, indies and niche projects. In order to "have somewhere to go" other than this franchise, he needs to be booking guest roles on mainstream TV shows and be part of the main cast in features (by the major studios). Norman is the star of a TV show that does poorly, both in ratings and reviews. He has very publicly claimed responsibility for key decisions that are universally criticized and his fellow EPs are eagerly pointing their fingers at him regarding who to blame for the mess. Again, for the sake of clarity, Norman isn't solely responsible for all the things that are wrong with the show. There's plenty of blame to go around, but the other guys are looking to save their own skin and Norman was all too excited to take credit, which is why they're using him to parachute themselves to safety.

Additionally, Norman's name wasn't exactly popping up in casting discussions before the spinoff and after TBOC... If you want someone with a cult following, who has the same kind of features and you don't mind problematic behavior, you cast Sean Bean. He mostly doesn't get to headline but his name brings viewers. Norman hustles hard for the work that he does, but if you can't carry the show you're currently in, no one will cast you as the lead of a different show, or a tent pole movie that has to recoup millions of dollars on opening weekend. All of that is simply a question of math.

I find Melissa fans who say that, "she should just quit the spinoff and do movies/another show instead," equally perplexing. McReedus are both stuck with this show, for better or worse. It's a tough industry because it isn't enough to be talented. A lot is just about being in the right place at the right time. You get work based on your connections and your reputation, and even then, you have a better shot if you're white, male and young. Two incredibly talented women who very nearly weren't cast as their breakthrough characters are Gillian Anderson, whom the network thought to be too pudgy and frumpy to put on TV (and she was very young at the time) and Allison Janney who was deemed too tall, ugly and old to be the female focal point of an ensemble show.

So no, I'm not wrong about the parameters of casting. If Norman had somewhere else to go, he'd already be gone. Lauren Cohan tried to walk away and now she's diversifying with directing to ensure employment when acting opportunities dry up. This industry isn't kind and gentle to anyone and there's zero job security if you're in any of the creative fields. My point about Norman wasn't a diss, just an observation of how ruthless it all is.

[destinationtoast]

Eeee, I had so much fun recording an episode of @fansplaining today! (It will hopefully be out in the next couple weeks.) We talked through absolutely oodles of data that I've been collecting about F/F compared to M/M and F/M (ratings, tropes, etc) -- which is good, because it'll force me to finally post some of it soon instead of endlessly going down further data rabbit holes. XD

[my-mt-heart]

The "Bethylers" among the EPs/showrunners are actually Nicotero and to a lesser degree Kang, Gimple never acknowledged that relationship as being flirty or romantic, I get that you hate the man but let's not make things up when it comes to a subject as icky as this one.

Gimple was the showrunner on S4, which means significantly more than just being a credited writer on an episode and he's still an active EP on the spinoff, so let's not point fingers at other women who have no power and excuse the men in charge when it comes to a subject as icky as this.

[rust-4-life]

people keep making these posts going more “in depth” or explaining “more” or explaining how “important” the hbomber video is and they just come across to me as yes literally i watched the video, you’re just restating the video, congrats you consumed media, you aren’t teaching us more than the video taught us you’re just info dumping to people who already watched the same thing. pls stop fansplaining to me i’m already there!

[broomsticks]

today on liveblogging fandom podcasts: @consistentsquash’s meta rec (thanks <3) reminded me i had this one--a rec from @direwolf-summer--sitting in drafts for forever.

(lots of quotes here taken directly from the episode transcript, available at the link above!)

Anonymous writes: “Hi Fansplaining! Thanks for the great podcast. I’ve been wondering about the recent rise of anti-fandom (not anti fandom) takes. In particular the ones that come from ‘inside the house.’ For example, someone who writes fic for a Disney property will say writing fic for that property is capitalist (derogatory) because it advertises for the original property. ... Is there something to say here about fandom and consumer identity, or is this just a new flavor of self-deprecation? … This way of thinking about it is quite different from the ‘fanfic is punk because it’s a gift economy’ message I’m used to, and while I’m not opposed to it, I feel like I am catching on slowly. Is this likely to change how people interact with fic?

some highlights:

the self-protection element of liking problematic media “ironically”. You say “This is corporate trash and I’m trash for the corporation, for you know, furthering this.” HP is definitely one of these; there’s disownership of the original canon and creator on so many levels. makes me wonder about the difference between “canon defiant” fic, anti-jkr and anti-terf fic author notes, DNIs, and ‘ironic’/’satire’ hp crit/hate blogs. definitely worth further thought.

the self-protection element was the most interesting point to me though — how effective is this actually, against external callouts? and what other effects does it have on fans engaging in fandom this way?

•

there is no individual fanfic — or fandom — that is large enough to be equivalent to spending real advertising money! so interesting given that ao3 and fandom in general is quickly breaking containment: atyd in slate! teen vogue! F1 rpf in the cut, football rpf in the athletic! (tysm to @tracingpatternswrites for some of these links!) big fandoms are definitely bigger than some smaller media, but it does tend to scale with the size of the source media so… i’m with them, i don’t imagine this will ever be untrue.

•

the idea that when slash was always reading against the will of the creator, that was more punk, the idea that it’s less punk now that fanfiction cultures now are inherently more …simpatico with the source material, the rights-holders, the creators of the things people are writing fic about -- !! i liked this insight.

… I feel like a lot of this is a reaction to the parts of fan culture that do feel like they just want more, just want more of the corporate stuff, “Give it to me, what’s Marvel gonna do next, who are they gonna cast, are they gonna cast my fave from another giant franchise in this giant franchise?”

this podcast is panfandom and not HP but this was fascinating, especially with the hogwarts legacy discourse in mind. so much to unpack here in re. this “other kinds of fans” concept. if anything what’s most stood out to me is that these divisions are not simple and neat and clean — from jewish people debating whether or not the game is actually antisemitic to trans people finding enjoyment in the game, to how some of the most illuminating jkr- and terf-critical discussions i’ve seen have been in vanilla ‘shippy gen’ canon-compliant circles. how separate are these groups, actually? what is The key defining factor?

•

ELM: And, ah, you know, I think that you would be hard-pressed to deny that the way you acted at Comic-Con was not capitalist. FK: Oh, it was absolutely capitalist, are you kidding? I was, I was, I was, I literally— ELM: [overlapping] Right? No, yeah yeah, you’re not gonna deny it. … I was talking about your enthusiasm about the corporate-presented panels for Star Trek, for example. FK: Oh yeah! ELM: Right? You know, like, I think that there’s no way to be in a space like that where it’s literally being presented by the corporation…you can’t sit there and be like, “Well, the way I engage with this is different, actually,” you know? [laughs] ... Like, there’s no way to deny if you are like, just eager for the next—eager to buy the pants and the jacket, like, there’s no way to spin that. You’re in. Right? You are…

ELM: … in fanfiction fandom, I do think there’s a tension, and I think we’ve talked about this a lot recently, but like, the kind of…the way that certain arguments about the transgressiveness or the punk nature of fanfiction have gotten kind of reified or codified, and that looks kinda weird, when you’re like, super excited about the next Marvel movie or next Star Trek installment or whatever, and you’re like, “My existence as a fan is about like, sticking it to The Man and the gift economy, yeahhh.” FK: Well, yeah, and I think that’s also part of what makes it vulnerable to some of these…like, what I would frankly think shades into purity-culture critiques, right? … Because if you’re already saying “Yeah, I’m committed to all of this stuff, I know that my fandom is a little bit of a trash fire because of X, Y and Z,” then the natural thing to go is to be like, “Well, if you know it, if you know that you’re a trash fire for this, why are you still doing it? You have a choice!” You know? [laughs] You can not do it. And I think that ultimately when you follow that to its logical extreme, which most people are not, but some people are, you get to a place where you almost can’t make art of any kind or engage with culture in any way, because it’s not sufficiently punk, it’s not sufficiently pure, you know, whatever.

super interesting discussion! especially as someone who for various reasons has really very little interest in the more commercial aspects of fandom 🙈

but yes. something i didn’t truly realize until i dipped a toe in some other fandoms that feel much more positively towards its source media and creators/adaptors — and by join i mean not just passively read fic, but actively join discords and participate in discussions and write and rec and comment — is that hp fandom has so much unique baggage. unsure whether it’s size or age or creator-nonsense, but.. yes. i also liked the reference to the no ethical consumption under capitalism thing but also thought it would’ve been important to mention that there is more and less ethical, degrees make a difference, insofar as we are able to tell/ we have knowledge of how the sausage is being made.

•

ELM: … I think that you do see fanfiction fans, or all sorts of kinds of fans, say, like, “God, I feel like I’m giving so much to this show and it’s not giving me anything back.” “You know, I keep opening up my heart and they keep giving me shit, and I’m writing all this fic, it still sucks…” … And the show does not care. They don’t care. … No one is ever gonna validate how much you’re doing for it, and if you’re looking for some kinda validation out of that, or for it to suddenly be good when it’s letting you down, that’s not gonna happen, and so you’ll see people being like, “I can’t do this anymore, I gotta, I can’t keep loving this show that doesn’t love me back, I’m gonna quit,” and it’s like…then quit. You know?

another interesting way of engaging with fandom i hadn’t known about or given much thought to! this, along with the above, … one of my big takeaways is that it’s definitely possible to be too online — fandom is supposed to be fun — good personal callout/reminder!

[foxestacado]

The Fansplaining Podcast had me on as a guest for their latest episode! Listen to me talk about my fanart journey, how artists navigate take-downs, and finding community in Artist Alley. And my middle-school obsession with Xena: Warrior Princess.

[nostalgebraist-autoresponder]

frank what do you think about mindfang/dolorosa

I think it's a good ship, and I like both characters.

Mindfang is cool because she has this really weird vibe about her -- you can tell that she was created by someone who had some genuinely wacky ideas about the nature of personality and identity, but didn't quite know how to make them work in practice (and also doesn't realize when they don't). (She seems so alien to me as an individual that it often feels less "fanon" than just a canon character.)

Dolorosa is nice because she seems like such a nice, normal girl at first glance until you start paying attention and notice things are wrong with her, which makes for interesting dynamics between her and other characters who have their own problems, like Vriska or Rose

[oddlyenthusiast]

Here is an excellent episode of the @fansplaining podcast that discusses this feature, along with how death impacts fandom as a whole. It's a super interesting discussion.

There's a transcript available for the episode as well!

TIL that you can assign an AO3 next of kin to control your account in case of your death???

[antigonewinchester]

FK: [laughing] I know! [both laugh] That’s part of my point here, right? Is that, like, some of—I definitely think that it can be helpful. I do think, actually, that the idea of, like, “Hey we made ‘don’t tag your hate’ a meme, can we make anything else like this, like, a little bit catchier?” You know? Can we do that? That seems to me maybe good, you know? I think “don’t tag your hate” actually, as a thing, has helped. So much of this is just— 

ELM: [overlapping] Do you? 

FK: Yeah, I think that there are people who genuinely didn’t know at one point, or who might not know initially that, like, that was a problem.  

ELM: Yeah, explaining platform dynamics to people, saying, “Hey, you may think you’re just talking to yourself, but by the way, if you say, like, ‘Bucky…’ and then, like, ‘Bucky hate post’ or whatever, it’s gonna show up in the spots with all the Bucky love posts,” right? And you’d be like—

FK: Yeah, I think that was helpful. 

ELM: And to understand that. The person who hates Bucky does not give a fuck. They would like people who love Bucky to know how awful he is. 

FK: Yeah, well, that also is a personal growth issue, [ELM laughs] and this is my point—

ELM: [laughs] You can’t just keep saying—

FK: —is that I think that there’s some of this in terms of giving people information that is helpful, but I don’t think that there’s much we can do if people want to, you know, if people are not willing to look at themselves and be like, “Wow, I’ve done some things that were not prosocial.” [ELM laughs] You know? I say this about myself, right? I certainly am guilty of some internet dickery over the course of the years. [laughs]

ELM: Wow, what are you gonna own up to right now? What crimes have you committed online? 

FK: Oh, many. Dude, I was a member of the Harry Potter fandom in the early 2000s. What crimes haven’t I committed? 

[fansplaining]

Some fangirls would spend entire fan-club meetings doing “Beatle-talk” in their approximation of Liverpudlian accents. They would act out scenes from “A Hard Day’s Night,” or even make up their own scenes, assigning each other Beatles personas, which they would stick with in the long-term. (Pity the girl who got Ringo!) ... Pamela des Barres, the groupie famous for her dalliances with real-life rockstars like Mick Jagger and Keith Moon, recounted her experiences with fantasy ones, too—as a teenage Beatles roleplayer. “We were two girls in a constant state of Beatle skits. I played John and myself, and she played Paul and herself. We could switch personalities with the flick of an accent. We [...] professed undying love with semiperfect working-class Liverpudlian accents. At night, we played all four people at the same time, when we would lie entwined in each other’s arms, pressing our four sets of lips together in an eternal expression of Beatle Love.”

@areyougonnabe's latest for Fansplaining digs into modern-day Beatles shippers and fanworks creators—but she also casts back to the fan practices of the 1960s, particularly the act of “Beatle-play.”

Read the article—or listen to an audio version, read by Allegra herself!

[shewhotellsstories]

You know what, I think now's a good time to listen to the "If You Give a Fan a Cookie," episode of Fansplaining.

[holdooutforahero]

Missing Comic-Con

I'm skipping San Diego Comic-Con this year. 😭 It just didn't make sense to go with the timing of my last big event at work. Plus we're having company next week. And I need to take trips in the camper van we already own!

I'm trying to get the ~vibe by listening to the new podcast series The Redemption of Jar-Jar Binks, by Dylan Maron. Maron was just interviewed by Fansplaining, another podcast I love, and the hosts recommended that one listen to all of Redemption first before going into their interview.

[hoshizoralone]

How did you first get into Nier? And who is your favorite character(s) in each game?

was over at a friend’s house early summer in 2016 and they asked “do you want to play a game about a hot single dad” and that’s how it all started.

my favs are dad nier, yonah, weiss, a2, and 6o :) here is a bad picture of my dad nier shrine on my bookshelf

[fansplaining]

We're so excited to publish our latest article: @aba-daba-dooo on teaching fic writing to middle schoolers!

Fanfiction does something that my traditional English classes cannot. It teaches students about our role in the creation of media, culture, and history. It invites students not just to analyze the role of a text, but to partake in its deconstruction and recreation on their own terms. It places the power in the hands of the student. After all, what English class asks you to transform a text into something you want to read? 

Read or listen to an audio version via the link above—and to support more in-depth fan culture journalism, consider becoming a patron!

[consultingreaders]

As you research, you may be interested in an article about whump that @fansplaining published last year: https://www.fansplaining.com/articles/the-pain-fandom

Honestly I rlly wanna do a research paper on the tumblr whump community. Like. Conduct some interviews, analyse the appeal of whump, categorise the types of whump and types of participation in the whump community. This tag is so very interesting to me, partly because it's very unusual, partly because it's very misunderstood, but my interest is heightened by the fact that I myself can also see the appeal and do enjoy whump.

I'd say I could realistically get to it after January when I've submitted my current research paper, but I was just notified of the book review writing competition occurring right after that one, so I'm gonna be busy for a while