#Either OP knows that and is just being that much more of a jerk or doesn't and said that anyway which is also a jerk move | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

bronx-bomber87 · 10 months ago

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Happy Saturday Lovely Fandom. We've reached the second to last ep of this series rewatch. Unreal. God I LOVE this ep. So so good. Tim being her handler. Reminds me of Alias. Which was my first love for tv show/ship. If you ever watched Alias you’d know why I love this asset and handler situation so much. Let us start.

5x21 Going Under

Start out strong Lucy is going UC. Has to do with the last episode. Frank Teska has been released from prison. He killed his brother for the attack on his daughter Dara. He is back in business. Looking to get into the Ghost Gun trade. You need specific polymer to make them. Metro raided and took his supplier out. Which is where Lucy comes in. She will pose as someone at Southland Chemicals. Be his new supplier.

We join our ship talking about the OP. Tim mentioning he’s using Hard Luck as his CI. Lucy not trusting this guy as far as she can throw him. Tim’s reply is the best. The fact that his CI knows how important Lucy is to him *squee* Then telling her as such. That this guy knows Lucy is special to him That if he messes up Tim will hunt him down. Gah I love this. Calling in favors for his girl. Work version of romantic ha

Lucy’s sweet expression when he tells her this. Basically saying he loves her in not so many words. Lucy being Lucy calling it 'Undercover love.' hehe Tim isn't even fighting it anymore. Just smiles shakes his head and rolls with her antics. We all know he loves her for it. Damn they cute. Actions always speaking louder than words with these two. Lucy couldn’t be cuter as Tim walks away. Her smile saying more than words ever could about how she feels about this man.

Then we get these GLORIOUS phone calls. Like rom-com goodies up in this episode. Love me some protective Tim. Asking her if he needs to talk to her boss? Lucy waves him off. Says she's got it. Tim looking mighty fine Phew lord Scruffy, his sweater and his eyes popping in this lighting. Mmm. Lucy of course checking in on him next. I love this so very much. He won't tell her he's struggling.

So she's going to check on in him since he won't do as such. Tim knowing exactly what she means. Asking if that means he misses her? We all know he does but he deflects in the cutest way. Saying no. His smile when she calls him a jerk. But he's YOUR jerk Lucy haha. He is so damn smitten with her. Loves teasing and messing with her. Just as much as she does for him. One of their love languages shining through in this moment. My damn heart.

She asks if Tim can check in on Tamara? Tim doesn’t hesitate for one second. Of course he’ll check in on their daughter. Doesn’t want her to lose any focus on the job. We then delve into the cute snippet conversations that have my shipper heart fluttering. Lucy telling Tim not to watch 'Top Chef' without her. I love that they have a show they watch together. Makes me giddy. Such a couples thing to have that. Tim giving her crap saying he can’t make any promises.

Lucy asking Tim if he ever wished he had a normal job? Tim says without people shooting at him? Not once. Lucy replying me either. These tidbits are just fantastic. They both love their line of work so much. This whole talking about everything and nothing at all just shows the deep bond they have. Comes from riding together for years 12 hours at a time. Her being UC is isolating but they get to have these moments despite that. Little pockets of joy before this OP heats up.

Tim asking if she’s making any friends? Lucy going on about a lady in her office. It’s so cute I can’t stand it. Talking about his grandkids and such. I love this is so very much. They did a really good job with these shots and the VO's. I saw a lot of people saying felt like rom-com and it really does in the best way. Just being on the phone whole time. Even though they're physically apart they still find a way to connect and be together. It’s so sweet imma get a cavity.

Day 4 rolls around and Tim ask if the monotony is getting to her? Lucy tells him no as long as it’s not for nothing. I mean she had two weeks of it in 3x14. 4 days is nothing but now she has Tim so she's got more to miss this time around. I adore the voice overs in this scene. Tim reassuring her it’s probably cause Frank is double checking her story. I love this shot of Tim in the side mirror. Fierce protector reporting for duty.

Frank has finally surfaced and approached Lucy. Her cover story of being a wanted felon has worked out. Frank thinks she’s an easy target because of it. Lucy playing the fresh start card with him. Not wanting to get into business with him. She does this so well. He tells her not an option. That he needs certain plastics and she needs to not go to jail. Telling her it’s low risk.

Gah I love Tim watching over the situation from across the way. Looking fine af BTW. My god I'll never be over how tall he is and I love it. Tall drink of yum. Look at him in his civvies, the hat, the glasses, the intense way he's watching her. Listening in to their convo. Trying to keep his protectiveness in check. Doing his best not to step in. Especially when Frank threatens her. Which causes Lucy to say yes. Frank says they’ll have dinner tonight then. He’ll come get her from her place. They can hammer out the details of this new partnership.

Lucy meets up with Wesley, Harper, Grey and her man. They’re going over this date for her. Tim looks like he’s going to crawl out of his skin. He hates the idea of this guy possibly thinking it’s a date. He hates this entire conversation really. Keeping his hands in his pockets. Looks at the ground trying to settle his protective nature.

I love Grey checking in with Tim. Minute he hears the word 'romantically and date.' He immediately looks at Tim. Knowing he hates this on so many levels. Tim isn’t being at all discreet with how he feels about this situation. He's basically squirming in front of all of them. Tim continuing to try to put on a brave face. Not well but sure trying. His whole body language screaming his immense discomfort.

Tim is being the least subtle he’s ever been in this moment. Hating the idea she needs a good wire in case he’s handsy. You can see him take a deep breath and clench his jaw at the thought of this. This conversation is killing him softly. Some angsty goodness though. The check in's these two have above getting me in the feels before she sets to leave. That silent communication of their's prominent af. I LOVE him walking Lucy to the door. The intense looks they share on the way.

They both look amazing btw. He keeps constant eye contact with her till he can’t any longer. The intense longing in his stare as he watches her go. *heart clutch* His entire world just walked out the door and it shows. Eric crushing it with the longing look. This is the type of angst I eat up. It’s so so good. Worried Tim is lovely to behold. And that man is insanely worried. He is an open book as she walks away from him. Trying to keep himself from losing his damn mind over this man possibly touching her.

Grey immediately checking in with him. Man wasn't exactly subtle during that whole conversation. Asking Tim if he’s ok? Tim lying saying he’s 5x5. Such a detached military reply. When he is anything but detached in this moment. Wade knowing he’s lying. Their friendship is underrated. Grey saying he has to treat this like any other OP. Any other UC. Sure he'll get right on that. Thanks to Lucy his emotions aren't so easy to turn off anymore. Also not like it’s the love of his life he’s watching over or anything…

Lucy goes to dinner with Frank all wired up. Tim watching intently outside. Fierce protector at the ready. The intense look on his face as he watches over her is doing things to me. *fans self* Like a lion pacing back and forth in it's cage waiting to be let out. Ready to attack at the slightest provocation against her. It's insanely hot tbh. He would gladly throttle this man if given the chance to. All he needs is to be given a reason.

Lucy almost gets Frank to admit to his brothers death when bullets start flying. We watch Tim in an absolute panic call this in. Desperately searching for her in the wreckage from his car. Trying to find her as he rattles off their address. I love her jumping up and looking his way so he knew she was ok. His giant sigh of relief when her head pops up. Feel like we all did that with him. Went from all out panic to instant relief. I said in the hospital scene she is his whole world. That just got shot at and he was paralyzed until she popped up.

He couldn’t breathe until he knew she was alright. His whole body slumping against his seat in relief. Eric crushing it out here with his expressions getting me all emotional. I love how his eyes dart back to her once more before he takes off after the shooters. Double checking she really is there. He couldn’t even be in pursuit of them until he knew she was ok. You can see he wants to stay but can’t. Having an internal battle but knows he has to go after them.

His cop brain in a delay due to this. This delay in reaction definitely affects him in his pursuit of the shooters. Don't think he was fully there mentally. Tim's head was most definitely not in the game when he went after them. Taking us back to 5x01 when Tim told Lucy if her head isn't the game 100 percent it'll get her killed. He is the living embodiment of that line in this moment. This dude almost killed him. Even when the gun is in his face his reaction time is slower.

That is not the Tim Bradford we know and love in the field. He was clouded his emotions running rampant. He had not compartmentalized at all. When Jan shows up it really hits him what almost happened to him. Saying he got lucky it was empty. Otherwise…ugh I don’t even wanna think about it. He’s panting his adrenaline waning and it showing. Looking over where the guy was knowing this could've been far worse. Knowing what it would've done to Lucy.

I love the minute she’s done dealing with Frank Lucy calls Tim. Anxiously awaiting him to answer her call. Both so worried about one another. Gah this episode is fantastic. Never seen Tim this panicky or shaken up. This is a UC OP he’s involved in I can’t imagine how he’d be if he wasn’t.

He just loves her so much. Having a legit meltdown till he knows she’s ok. It’s all over his face as he talks to her on the phone. Eric killing me softly in this one. Lucy isn’t pulling any punches with her worry either. Both making me emotional as hell. Tim replying ‘Yeah I am now.’ *internal screaming* Wasn’t ok till he knew she was.

The love they have for each other is all over this moment. I’m not crying you are…You can see all the tension leave his body when he hears her voice. The neediness in both their voices when he says they should meet up. Gah yes you do. They needed to hear each others voice to calm down after that adrenaline fest.

Then we come to THE laundry scene. One that broke my damn brain. Pretty much broke the entire fandom's brain. I love how she rushes to him and clings on. Wanting zero space between them. Tim leaning into her arms. Rubbing his hand up and down her back. I’m sure both their hearts were racing. They are each other’s safe space and this hug shows that.

So scared and only finding comfort in each others arms. So much emotion surging through them in this hug. I love me a good hug and this one is fantastic one. Trying to ground one another with it. Speaking their concerns about what they just went through. The swaying gets me too. I love everything about this hug.

Lucy basically launches herself at him. He catches her effortlessly and holds her so tightly to him. The remaining tension melting out of of their bodies. Because they were running on adrenaline and anxiety until this hug. Tim holding her so close making sure she’s real. There with him. I’ll never be over this moment and how lovely it is.

This next portion just proves why Lucy is his person. Tim is losing his mind with worry over this guy. Over him trying something. His anxiety coming off him in waves. Lucy wants to soothe him because it's her natural instinct. Tim looks like he wants to cry or punch a wall or both when he ask if he’s tried something? Lucy reassuring him he hasn’t but even if he did she’s got this. The fierce protector coming out strong right now. He can barely contain it. Tim deflecting a little saying ‘I know.’

Lucy knows this man so damn well. Telling him knowing and feeling ok are two different things. She's so right. I love the way she grabs his jacket trying to comfort him. Tim is being so soft and vulnerable in this moment. She wants him to know it’s ok. She’s ok and it’s very ok if he isn’t. Eric killing this episode left and right with his expressions. His heart is hurting it’s all over his face and Lucy is reaching out with a reassuring touch. I love her for validating his feelings. Not judging him for them.

But also knowing he’s being very vulnerable right now and she’s being wonderfully receptive to that. Tim gets a little defensive saying. Not his first time. Lucy is SO good with him. Doesn’t shame him for being bristly about this. Knowing it’s his PTSD in full swing. So soft in her reply and expression. Letting him know probably what’s making this so much worse for him. This is why she’s his person. Never shames him for his feelings only loves him through. Gah they’re making me so emotional. I love this couple so much.

Before Tim gets anymore emotional he tells her he has to go. Now isn’t the time to talk about this. That he knows if she doesn’t feel safe she will bail. If she’s good he’s good. Lucy confirms she’s good. Tim says he has to get back to the station then. Grey is waiting for a status update. Lucy stops him before he can go. Not ready to be apart from him just yet.

Grabbing his arm keeping him from leaving. I love the way she is looking at him landing on his lips. Then she says the 4 words that made us all collectively lose our minds. ‘Lock the door first.’ Is this real life? Did we really get this moment? Adrenaline fueled we made it out alive laundry room sex? Oh my damn lord.

The way he looks at her when she says this. *fans self* Tim is definitely not treating her like any other UC…I remember gasping at her saying this. Needing to be with him in this moment. Tim’s smile realizing what she’s saying. My god. Laundry room sex is now canon for them. We got shower sex last ep and now laundry room post-op sex. My god the writers were good to us. I like being pandered too LOL Also you know there is a damn good chance highly likely really this was unprotected too.

Lucy couldn’t let him walk away yet until she had him. Hot damn. Tim not one to deny her anything is easily roped into her naughty plans. I’m still not over the risks they took to have this heated moment together. They had a frenzied hookup while she was on assignment. I’m dead. They’ve actually killed me in the best way. S5 truly is a fic come to life. I love every minute of it. Clearly missing and craving sexy time with her man. Also probably still hopped up on adrenaline as well. Undercover hookup phew lord we are blessed haha

Lucy calls Tim after she gets away with Frank from the warehouse. Saying the OP is done. Frank has nothing left to build. Tim is flirty af in his reply. With a shit eating grin to go with it. Saying that’s too bad... Lucy is confused and says why? Tim referring to their hookup in the laundry room. Bummed he wasn't going to get another. Timothy Bradford I never haha This man is so different when he is truly loved and happy my goodness. I couldn't love it more.

Hard to believe this entire episode is canon. Tim is definitely loving his sex life with Lucy and proud to let her know about it. Hell so are we haha Horny Tim is hilarious and I love him so. They could find another laundry room for a repeat performance if he would like LOL Fanfic come to life this season swear to god. We live in a world where this scene happened and I’m dying.

They return home because at this point it’s their home. Gah love how Tim looks at Lucy as he approaches her. Man is so insanely in love with her. Lucy saying she needs a big meal, hot bath and quality sexy time. Heh. Then to sleep for 24 hours straight. I love how Tim encases her hands in his caressing them as they speak. Running his hands up and down hers. Needing this connection.

I love Tim being the physically affectionate one of the two. I always knew once they got together he would be the one who couldn’t keep his hands off her. Touching really is one of their many love languages and I adore it. Never saw them nearly as touchy with their ex’s. Just another reason proving why they’re so right for each other. Gonna be the death of me and I welcome it. Lucy can tell something is up. Asking him what’s going on?

Oh my poor damaged boy. Having a trauma response right now with her saying she needs time to decompress. I love him not deflecting and telling her how he’s feeling instead. That’s not easy for him. I also totally get his response. I still have trauma responses to things as well. Lucy knowing it is telling him it was only a week. That one nights keep will do her just fine. Trying to say without saying she’s not Isabel. Tim accepts her answer.

Lucy says she has to come clean about some thing though. That she knows she made him promise not to. But she watched 'Top chef' without him. For shame Lucy Chen . For shame LMAO I guess that monotony did get to her since she finished it without him.... Tim is so offended I’m dying. Calling her a 'Bad girlfriend' *screams into a pillow* They’re so friggin cute I am dying. Lucy's 'No, I'm sorry!' It is horrible Tim is right haha Making him promise not to then watching it without him. Every right to be playfully mad at her.

Lucy wastes no damn time and confronts Tim about the shooter in the alley. I love her so much for always calling him on his shit. Saying how he didn’t tell her he almost died in that alley. Tim brushing it off saying because he didn’t. Oh Timothy. Acting like her losing you wouldn’t completely wreck her. Absolutely devastate and ruin her like it would for you. I think that’s exactly why he did it though. Acting like it’s not a big deal when he knew it was.

Protecting her from that fact. Lucy coming at him saying doesn’t matter who told her. That they’ll set aside the fact he left it out of the report. 2x01 Tim would be appalled ha. Doing it for the same reasons Lucy did then. Insane how this same kind of fight still involves Isabel indirectly. Lucy can’t believe him right now. Acting like it’s nothing. Like she didn’t almost lose him.

We see a little more trauma Tim come out here. Just assuming she's keeping things from him when she's under. I so relate to him reacting this way I do. I misread something my best friend had texted me the other day. I made an assumption like Tim is here. My friend was wonderful texted me back ‘ Your trauma is showing.’ And it knocked me out of it. It’s involuntary when it runs so damn deep. And we know it does for him.

I’m so glad Lucy is there to knock him back out of it. Saying No you know Isabel did for a fact. Calling him right out for it. These kinds of fights are so good for them. Forces them to face the stuff they’re hiding. Things they didn’t really touch on last episode. This was a much better and more open conversation. Tim didn’t hide behind being ‘fine.’ And Lucy isn’t letting him get away with it. Tim can’t fight that logic and it’s all over his face in the second gif. The way his body slumps in reply.

Lucy making a strong ass point next. Saying if this is going to work between them he has to see the difference. She not wrong. He really does. Tim shooting back of course he can. (Babe you got some work to do...) What I love the most is Lucy said her piece. Put him his place about this. Which was needed and now Tim is saying his. The dialogue in this scene so much more productive than 5x20 was. Airing things out and how they actually feel. Tim voicing his need to know she will listen to him if he sounds the alarm.

That otherwise all the pain he went through was for nothing. Then he says the line that shows me Lucy is the love of his damn life. ‘I can’t lose you the way I lost her.’ Tears in this man’s beautiful eyes. Imma cry myself. Finally voicing the fear he kept inside last episode. He cannot lose this woman My heart. She is everything to him. Pulled him out of the depths of his pain and hurt. Brought him back to life. He loves her so much and is saying as such in this moment.

Lucy can see this and reassures him he won’t lose her that way. She would walk away for him if it ever got that close. Ugh my heart. He sounded the alarm earlier and she shut it down. So they both have stuff to work on. I mean it's why he brought it up. He felt like he was sounding the alarm in the laundry room. Lucy brushed it off saying she didn't want to tap out. But them having this conversation hopefully they can be more aware of these things for a future OP and in general really. The need to openly communicate is a must.

Tim says 'Okay.' Choosing to trust what she is saying. Then we get another glorious hug. The way he clings to her. His hand around her neck pulling her to him is so visceral. He loves her so damn much and it’s shown beautifully in this embrace. How much she means to him. Pulling her in close. Lucy doing the same thing clinging to him like a life raft. Her arms pulling him close to her as well. We see both her hands on his shoulders. *sigh*I'm so proud of them for both speaking their minds in this scene.

Lucy calling Tim out was so needed. He has to see she isn’t Isabel. If not it’ll destroy him. No one gets through to Tim like Lucy. This scene was so raw and honest. Very much needed after all that was left unsaid in 5x20. Never be over them being vulnerable with one another especially Tim. Not only telling her he needs her to listen but sharing he CANNOT lose her. Basically laying any cards she didn’t already have from him on the table. So proud of him. He’s come so far and this scene shows it. I truly love the writers for how real they write them. Phew Lord this was a good ep.

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Side notes-non Chenford

Angela calling Aaron from closet about a case hilarious. The entire ep trying to do stuff for her I was laughing so hard.

Also nice to see Celina go out with a nice guy. She deserves it.

Well the next one is the last one holy moly. Thank you forever and always to those who like, comment and reblog these reviews. You all have made me so appreciated by doing so. I will see you all in the 5x22 :)

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theerurishipper · 8 months ago

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Do you think Emo Marinette treated Claw Noir better than him her? Because I've seen so many Marinette kinnies say that they think she was much kinder to him and he was an awful Jerk, and now I'm kinda questioning if I'm missing something?

In my eyes, they treated each other equally bad. I'm tending towards saying Marinette fans just aren't used to seeing an Adrien or Cat who isn't fawning over Marinette no matter what she does to him. If Shadybug is rude and dismissive of Claw, he's rude and dismissive back.

So they think Claw's treatment of Badynette was so much worse because her treatment of her Cat is honestly not all too different from the regular LadyNoir vibes pre s5. Him not catching her when she falls from the sky for example. Our Adrien wouldn't do that, period. No matter how pissed he is.

But I wouldn't necessarily say that there was anything Badynette did that our Marinette wouldn't do to our Cat under heightened circumstances. I would even say that Marinette is much more likely to be the one betraying Cat Noir to get his Miraculous than the other way around.

So I guess it makes sense that Marinette fans think that Claw treated Shadybug worse because he was the only one who actually showcased bad behavior towards the other one our main characters wouldn't do. They're basically just not used to seeing Marinette not getting rewarded with kindness from Adrien whne she isn't treating him well either. Which is ironic, that Marinette fans react this badly to seeing Marinette in a more or less equal dynamic with Adrien for once.

But that's just the way I instinctively read it. I do wonder if there's something I'm missing because of how persistent Marinette fans are with that take.

I did not know that take was popular, but I have seen it before. I have written about this before, so I'll just put it here.

And maybe I'm just defensive, but there's a line about how Claw Noir treated Shadybug horribly, which comes off to me as OP pointing out that this is another way Marinette had it worse, when she was just as cruel to him lol. They both hated each other, it was mutual. She wasn't there for Claw Noir; she hated him and treated him just as badly as he treated her. Did we miss her attacking him and taking his ring? In fact, he was the one who reached out to her and tried to offer kindness and comfort first. And no hate on Emonette, they're on better terms now, but they 100% were not like that before, and she did not care about him.

In fact, rewatching the scene, she was the one who threw the first insult.

Claw Noir: There! You can have your boyfriend back! (Shadybug pulls out his belt) Hey! (Shadybug uses the belt to tie Ubiquity and keep her captive.) Don't yank the tail! Shadybug: At least now it's being put to good use. (stares at Marinette's wallpaper of Adrien in her monitor) Even in this world, we find pictures of that self-centered Adrien Agreste. Claw Noir: Obviously, he can only be perfect here, too. Shadybug: A perfect stuck-up brat. No wonder you're a fan of his. (jumps up on Marinette's bunk bed and looks at her board full of pictures of her friends, and notices the open trapdoor above her) They must've gone out this way!

You'll notice that this is their first scene together, and she's the one who's insulting him. He doesn't say a thing to her that might have provoked her. Which is not me saying that he was nicer to her than she was to him, since he starts fights later in the special, but saying that Shadybug was the nicer one when the first line she says is an insult directed at him is... pretty rich lmao.

I'm not sure that it's because of how the show presents their relationship (though it could be a factor). I think it's more that the people saying these are the ultra Marinette stans who call Adrien a sexual harasser or an abuser or something. It sounds like something they'd say.

Thank you for your ask!

#ML Salt #ML Fandom Salt #Marinette Salt #Not really but still #Meta #My meta #Asks

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lord-squiggletits · 5 months ago

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Something about being an IDW OP fan is that even in positive works about him I feel like his problematic aspects are brought up way too often even in an appreciative way.

Ignore the haters of IDW OP/other characters I'm using as an example bc I'm talking about how fans talk about their own faves.

Like with Prowl fans, they know he's problematic but they pretty much just go "yeah he's an asshole what about it" or just don't acknowledge it at all and write/draw what they want to see. Some might allude to ACAB stuff but they don't do a disclaimer on every post about him with "btw I know cops are bastards and war crimes are evil I just think he's neat"

Pharma stans make content about him, whether apologism or just fun haha chainsaw doctor, without having to constantly be like "medical malpractice is bad and all but" or "He kills people and that's definitely important to talk about but" they just write about Pharma being a tragic/evil character and that's that

Megatron fans definitely are willing to talk about him being problematic, but again that element of self consciousness isn't there and ppl write headcanons and fics and stuff without Megatron having to turn around in the narration and go "oh I'm evil I'm so awful no one should be like me" as a sign to the audience that the author doesn't condone Megatron's actions and thinks colonialism is bad

I'm sure I could come up with other examples but like it's just weird to me that even among ppl who like IDW Optimus (and I'm not immune to this either), there's like this self-effacing attitude where ppl can't just say "I like him" or "It was cool when he did this" without almost ALWAYS preceding it with some sort of "He is a cop but" or "He's kind of a jerk but" or "I would hate him IRL but" as if there's some sort of Transformers fandom panopticon saying that you're not allowed to talk positively about IDW OP without first mentioning all of his flaws/problematic aspects. People sort of speak about him as if he's enjoyable or well written DESPITE being problematic, or that enjoying him has to be justified bc him being problematic automatically makes him repulsive. As opposed to merely talking about IDW OP as he is, and the problematic parts of him are thinks you can talk about or not talk about just depending on your mood and what angle you want to approach. No, every post or conversation has to always allude to how "IDW OP is an asshole, but he also has positive traits" or "I know he's problematic, but hear me out."

Hell even tho I'm seeing a little more fic about IDW OP or OPs with more IDW elements, it still feels as if most writers put him in situations where he goes "yeah I'm sorry I'm problematic and did bad things" as if he has to confess his sins publicly before being allowed to be a person. Or that the author feels the need to write him as such to reassure the audience "No actually I know ACAB just because I like IDW OP doesn't mean I'm not progressive look here I'm writing a story about everyone calling him an asshole for being a cop and OP kisses Megatron's ass because revolutionaries are actually right and it's only state propaganda that maligns them as violent and capable of wrong."

Idk I just think that among people who enjoy problematic characters, there are still a lot of fans who are either immature or self-conscious in their enjoyment of problematic characters. Where they DO have that enjoyment but they feel the need to make public disclaimers constantly or write their stories in a moralizing way to demonstrate how well they know that character is problematic. To contrast, I think true "problematic character" enjoyment comes when people can just LIKE A CHARACTER and it's a morally neutral act where they don't feel the need to make demonstrations about how transgressive it is and how their taste in fictional characters definitely doesn't reflect their real life morality.

It's just saddening bc even tho these days, there are lots of people who like IDW OP and there's fewer people being assholes about him, it still feels as if content about him is self-conscious of the fact and won't let him exist as a character/funny guy in your brain/vessel of themes and plot and instead it's some sort of Hays Code-esque thing where every time he appears on screen at least one person has to call him a cop bastard so the audience knows the fanfiction isn't copaganda.

But what if instead IDW OP fans and fan content had the same energy as other problematic character fanbases like Prowl or Megatron and we could just go "yeah here's a story about my favorite guy" without making a whole disclaimer about it

#squiggposting #idw op love #sorry that this post rambles and repeats a lot it's hard to empirically describe what i mean #more just like. it's like that looks inside-wires meme #'heres a fan work about idw op' (looks inside) 'constant criticism and moralizing and calling out how problematic he is'#like imagine if Megs fans wrote about IDW M the same way OP fans write about IDW OP #M would wake up every morning and immediately have 3 people calling him a genocidal asshole #he goes to kiss OP good morning and whispers 'i'm sorry for the countless atrocities ive committed'#and OP whispers back 'i forgive you dont worry'#then M goes to get lunch with his friends and in the middle of the conversation #someone goes 'you killed people tho' and M launches into a speech about how sorry he is #and how nothing he can do can ever make up for what he did #then he goes back home to OP and OP tells M how the entire war is his fault bc if he'd just listened to OP it couldve ended sooner #(and all of this is written by someone who's vocally a fan of him and wasnt writing it as a parody or hatefic)

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autistic-ben-tennyson · 2 months ago

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PoE: Actual Thoughts

This is going to be my last post regarding the discourse that I was responsible for starting. A lot of people probably think I hate the movie and am Lily Orchard 2.0 because of what those like spot-the-antisemitism claim. I’ll be leaving my actual opinions on it as well as the fandom and why I don’t love it as much as I used to. Contrary to what Zionists like Emperorsfoot claim, I can think for myself and have my own beliefs.

TPoE used to be one of my favorite movies. I wrote an essay back in 9th grade encouraging people to watch it because it had great music, great animation and an emotional story one could appreciate regardless of their religious beliefs. I still think it’s a good piece of filmmaking and has its place in theological and historical discussions. James Baxter worked on some of the animation sequences and would later create iconic moments from shows like Adventure Time and Steven Universe.

So what’s the problem? Well, the reason my opinion towards has soured is multifaceted. Being an anime fan has played a role in me seeing it as just another movie as opposed to the greatest animated film ever due to watching movies such as Spirited Away, Suzume or The End of Evangelion. Its fandom is another thing I dislike. Some say you can’t let fandom ruin something for you but if a majority of the people in a fandom are jerks, then it’s valid to not want to engage.

While it was wrong for me to call it “Zionist propaganda”, I have gotten anon hate from its stans including suicide bait. So many of the people in the notes of the post as well as the OP were either transphobic radtrads like griseldafury21, “vote blue no matter what” liberals like Short-wooloo or all the fandom Zionists like Prismatic-bell. YouTube comments are full of “anti woke” creationists using it to trash modern Hollywood, which is terrible but not for the reasons they claim. Liberal Zionists do use it to support their view of themselves as perpetual victims who can do no wrong. Killing people is okay as long as they’re oppressive in their eyes, whether Egyptian or Palestinian.

So maybe I do dislike it but not because I think it’s a bad movie or propaganda, but because it’s fandom has soured me towards it. One could certainly use its liberation message as a commentary on the oppression of Palestinians but that probably won’t get any support from the movie’s top fans. The behavior of the hardcore fans is what has turned me off to it, especially their concern trolling over gofundme scams. Same reason why I’ve been less enthusiastic towards Steven Universe. Still has a place in my heart and was a big factor in my anime obsession but the amount of fans who are racist milquetoast liberals has pushed me away from the fandom. I don’t single out Jews for being Zionists either. I would be disappointed if Rebecca Sugar supported Israel but I’d feel the same about Makoto Shinkai, Hideaki Anno or Dwayne McDuffie, if he was still alive, and others I admire. I judge people based on their actions and principles, not their religion or ethnicity.

So that’s what I actually think of the movie and it’s fans. Some of the songs like “When you believe” are pretty emotional and as someone with a complicated relationship with my brother, the conflict between Moses and Ramses does get a tear out of me, even if that’s not what happened in the Bible. I still have fondness for it, but many of its hardcore fans have ruined it and people’s lack of willingness to criticize any aspect is disappointing. Criticizing it or SU does not make someone Lily Orchard or Lindsay Ellis as people can develop their own opinions without influence. The Prince of Egypt is a great work of art in my opinion but it’s not above criticism and the way people use it as well as other “wholesome” media as a shield should be talked about more.

#from the river to the sea palestine will be free #free palestine #the prince of egypt #western animation #prince of egypt #liberal zionists #my thoughts #anti zionism #toxic fandom #Religion #christianity #judaism #Harassment #steven universe #Everyone wants to think of themselves as Moses #No one wants to admit that they could be Ramses #unpopular opinion #fuck zionists

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pynkhues · 1 year ago

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Unpopular opinion anon. I really enjoyed Roman but I think I watched a different character than everyone else lol. The big one that's getting me right now is I don't really get the masochism takes? I didn't really read him as seeking punishment or only understanding love through pain... I don't feel like he was really seeking that out for the majority of the show. Also I think I may be alone in thinking Roman has kind of a normal(ish) relationships with both of his full siblings?? Like I don't get why everyone thinks the golden trio abused each other. Roman is such an asshole younger brother who turns protective the second Kendall is actually down. Like Roman can be terrible to them but also he loves them so much and it's the switch from jerk to "drop me a pin" that's I think is a core aspect of that character.

I just don't think I understand the fandom version of Roman or maybe I made up my own version and that's the one I like? At this point I honestly don't even know haha

I thought it might've been Roman you were thinking of, haha.

Yeah, there's a lot of interesting interpretations of him in fandom, and I think in some ways he's probably one of the more ambiguous characters on the show. I was just reading this little interview snippet actually and thinking how the interviewer's read of Roman as someone who has a lot of crazy adventures is so antithetical to how I see him. I tend to agree with both Kieran's reply and the OP's tags there though that Roman likely has a pretty good ear to the ground socially in order to project a certain image, but doesn't necessarily actually live it.

While it's not my personal read either, I do get where people are seeing it when it comes to the masochism factor. I think there's a valid interpretation of canon there between Roman courting violence with the protestors after Logan's funeral, and the complex scene with his and Kendall's hug in the finale, and I can see why people draw a link between that with things like the dog pound and Roman getting off on Gerri berating him.

There's texture there, y'know? Even if personally I agree with you and don't think they're especially linked. I tend to view Roman's seeking punishment or the murky tie between violence and love in 4.09 and 4.10 as being very explicitly tied to Logan's death and the void he's left, especially because we don't see it at any other point in the series. I also tend to view the dog pound as kids being kids (more on that in a sec), and I also don't know if I think Roman would get off in that particular masochistic way if it wasn't specifically Gerri doing it (I feel like that particular storyline and romance was that perfect storm of the taboo of it all, the hiding in plain sight, his mommy issues, and also just him generally being really into Gerri).

As for their childhood, yeah, I agree with you there too. It's one of the things that I love about the show actually is that the siblings can be mean, can squabble and set each other up to fail, but the love there is real. Like all their feelings for and about each other can be really complicated, but the love they have for each other just isn't. Gosh, Shiv even says it in the finale - she loves Kendall, but she can't stomach him.

That read of the kids abusing each other I do think tends to directly come from the dog pound game, or setting each other up (Kendall and Roman leaving Shiv with the chocolate milk, Kendall and Shiv leaving Roman with the water pistols, etc.) which I really think is pretty normal sibling behaviour. In particular, I've talked about the dog pound game a bit, namely here and here, and about fandom reads of Roman as the most abused here and here if you're interested in reading more!

But yes! I don't think you made him up. I think he's a character where a lot of different readings are possible because he does carry a little more ambiguity / we know less about his past than we do Kendall and Shiv's which invites more speculation and, sometimes, projection too. I think my read of him is pretty close to yours though.

#i do think as well that some of the interpretations of the kids' childhood dynamics can come from people who don't spend #a lot of time around small children #because as someone who was a guardian to her younger brother spends a lot of time now looking after her nephews #and has dayjobbed off and on with kids for the last 15 years #kids are evil lmao #even the sweetest ones you know can be absolutely diabolical to each other #that's literally the point of childhood #kids aren't born with morality they learn it #and very often trial and error it out on their siblings #it's extremely normal #and literally crucial for childhood development #plus studying the brain's development in pd at work at the moment #honestly that shit is WILD #i don't know how any of us make it out of childhood in one piece #but yes anyway haha #i agree with you but i do get where different reads play into roman as well #roman roy #hbo succession #succession meta #welcome to my ama

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maddiviner · 1 year ago

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i think it's okay to leave out the UPG disclaimer when someone is acting like their UPG is universally correct. especially when it's as wildly blatantly ahistorical and made-up as the hecate person's (don't remember her username because i IMMEDIATELY blocked her). also when you use your UPG to demand other people practice a certain way

I thought about it a bit after I posted that.

IMHO? None of what she posted counts as unverified personal gnosis. Reason being that UPG is by definition the kinda thing that you can't disprove, exactly. If you're making false claims about objective, known history, that doesn't count. That's just called lying, either to yourself, or other people, sorry.

UPG is also personal. It's one thing if other people find your UPG compelling and join in on their own. It's also, IMHO, appropriate to share it if you're comfortable. If you're trying to force it on other people as the absolute truth, it really stops just being your UPG, and it's a jerk move. This is, obviously, especially true if the claims are ahistorical nonsense (which, again, doesn't count as UPG).

How I view this might piss people off, but I'm going to break down my views. I'm open to discussion of course, but this is just how I use the phrase ("unverified personal gnosis," I mean).

Some different UPG-ish things I've heard over time...

A certain Goddess considers me Her daughter in a spiritual/metaphysical sense. She expects certain things of me.

Humans all contain a lil piece of the Divine. I will work on connecting with that by prayer/meditating/whatever.

Reincarnation is real (or not real).

After death, I will join my loved ones in the Summerlands/etc to rest or something similar.

Everything above is, IMHO, UPG. I say that because it's unfalsifiable and personal. It's not ahistorical, nor does it conflict with physical reality. And, in the situations where I saw the above comments, it wasn't presented as absolute fact.

Some things that definitely don't qualify as UPG for the reasons I've mentioned...

Rather than originally being a Greek Goddess, Hekate was actually Scottish-Irish human woman who was murdered by men. (This was the original claim by the OP, actually.)

Jesus revealed to me in a dream that the earth is actually flat. The truth is being concealed by elite reptilians.

The Christian holiday of Easter connects to the Sumerian Goddess, Ishtar. Ancient pagans worshiped Her in springtime with eggs and bunnies.

I was burned at the stake in Europe as a witch in the 1700s along with the rest of my Wiccan coven. I reincarnated as a witch again.

None of the above is UPG. It's misinformation instead. You can look at historical/scientific sources and prove it's inaccurate.

I found the concept of UPG hard to grasp initially. I think some others do, too. Many of us are coming from or steeped in more organized religions.

I don't think a lot of them, at least in the pervasive American sorta Christianity, have anything like UPG? I mean, I didn't see much of it. So, it's kinda been a new concept for some, and a lot of us have to feel our way around it a bit.

Another thing I wanna add? UPG isn't always healthy or good even if it does quality as UPG. Some ways of thinking about the world just work better, I guess, and that applies across the board. A lot of UPG tends to be very fluid and adaptable, I've noticed, which I think is good.

The Hecate person is kinda funny because she just posted this huge spiel about how she knows she's doing it right now that she has "haters" and called us all ignorant "heathens" (her words) for not accepting her divine truth straight from God's Hekate's mouth.

The idea of someone who claims to be pagan using "heathen" as an insult is just... weird. I know there's probably some kinda discourse around the word but... still.

Someone I talk with on Facebook commented that it's weirdly Protestant?! Similar to how Jesus gets portrayed. You've got a divine being that was, uhhh, actually from a completely different culture being portrayed as Scottish/Irish, Greek roots being erased. Said divine being was somehow also incarnated as a human, and martyred? And then we have a prophet, too! Sounds super similar to me, too, now that I start to think about it in those terms, but I didn't notice before.

#witchcraft #pagan #witch #paganism #magic #occult #witchblr #upg #eliza.txt #doused #hecate #hellenism #history #unverified personal gnosis #definitions #terminology #i think my facebook friend might've #had a point

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literaticat · 5 months ago

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Question re the ask regarding the author who got the edit letter. While I know an edit letter is common, if it requires such huge changes wouldn’t the publisher have mentioned that at the offer stage or given some indication they’d require lots of changes? Can an author ever pull out at this stage? I imagine most don’t and knuckle down and do the edits but if it’s a really major edit or full rewrite wouldn’t the author have grounds to end the deal if this wasn’t indicated before signing?

My apologies, I think a couple of you may have read the ask from yesterday and felt like I was saying something a little different from what I was trying to say. That's on me! Maybe I made it sound too dramatic! (But it clearly does FEEL dramatic to OP, and to the authors I'm talking about who have said these exact words to me in the past.)

My point was just, yes, it IS totally normal to feel overwhelmed/freaked out by an edit letter when you first get it, and for the auto-reaction to be either "omg they hate this book" or "I can't do this" or "they are wrong" or etc etc.

You'll note, though, that I didn't actually say that the edits they are being asked for are anything close to "a total rewrite" or "such huge changes". More that it often FEELS that way to the author when they first get the letter. You've been waiting for this letter for perhaps months and months. You're already a little intimidated by your editor even if they are the nicest ever. Finally, a 10-page edit letter lands in your inbox.

Gut reaction: AHHHH THEY HATE IT! Because what the author SEES at a glance is a big ol 10 page document full of criticism -- but when the author takes a deep breath and looks at it properly with an unscrambled brain, they will see that it is in fact five pages of praise, and five pages of questions and suggestions.

Edit letters are not generally dictatorial, like "you must change XYZ and totally rewrite this" -- it's much more likely to be something like "I'm loving this scene, but I'm just not sure why so-and-so makes this choice here, it kind of seems to come out of nowhere -- can you clarify?" -- it's things to think about. Maybe it's resolved by something as simple as adding a line of dialogue from that character or another. Maybe it's something that needs to be woven into his backstory, like, you as an author KNOW why he made that choice, it's because of the bike accident he had when he was ten, but that isn't on the page, so maybe you add a flashback in a different chapter to resolve this question. OR -- maybe you just leave it a mystery. Like, it's your book, there's very little you HAVE to change if you really disagree.

This is hard work, not because you are rewriting a book from the ground up or something - - this is not demolition derby time -- it's actually the opposite of that. It's hard work because it's thoughtful and careful. You are getting to look at the book through somebody else's eyes (somebody who probably has a LOT of expertise about story and who has distance that you are too close to the work to have) -- somebody who is, in fact, trying to take what you already have and make it the best it can be, NOT destroy it. That's valuable! You don't have to make every change or address every question they ask, but you probably SHOULD at least THINK about all of them -- because if they have a problem understanding XYZ, it's quite likely a regular reader will, too. (I talk more about this in some of the Revision posts in the FAQ).

That's why IMO when you get an edit letter by all means look at it -- BUT THEN STEP AWAY FROM IT. You don't want to knee-jerk reaction this. Take your time, think about it, and then when you approach it again, look at what it is actually saying and asking you to do, and take it bird by bird.

If it requires such huge changes wouldn’t the publisher have mentioned that at the offer stage or given some indication they’d require lots of changes? Yep -- if they really did want a total rewrite or just A BIG EDIT that might take it the book in a very different direction from what you intended -- they would have said so at the offer stage and it would be a point of discussion. If you indicated you really were not in agreement with that, they probably wouldn't have offered at all.

Can an author ever pull out at this stage? I mean I guess they can if they want, but a) again, the editor probs would have said so ahead of time if it was really THAT major a rewrite, b) if you are going to break contracts just because you don't want to revise, that's not a great look and probably doesn't bode well for getting future contracts. I would just, you know, take a beat before returning the money and breaking the contract. That's a nuclear option, last-resort kind of thing to do -- conversations should probably happen before you go there!

#revising books #revision #working with an editor

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gnomeskillet · 7 months ago

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Just wanted to thank you for those excellent posts on sadness. As someone else struggling with depression (and have been for a long time) it was appreciated. Don't let the OP get you down with their complaints, what you said will help people.

*shrugs* I'm not very fussed about it, honestly. I know there is a level of knee-jerk emotional reaction happening, and there's nothing I can do or say to change that. I said what I felt needed to be said, and I've nothing more to add. I do appreciate your words of kindness, though.

It's one of those things where I think if you haven't been there, it's easy to underestimate how much damage relateable, aesthetically pleasing posts about sadness can do. You can internalize them without meaning to, you know? And with "sadness is a course corrector," there's a lot of ways to interpret that statement that do not align with the OPs original intent. Things like "If I'm sad enough, things will change," or "nothing's changing, so I guess I'm not sad enough," or even "I'm sad, so this is where I'm meant to be."

It's not that I think they're entirely wrong, either; recognizing sadness in yourself or seeing it in other people can be the signal that something needs to change! It will make you think about what you're doing and why!

But it's not enough by itself. That's why you have to include hope. That's why you have to include desire. That's why you have to include things like perseverance, endurance, and determination. You have to put in the work, you have to put in the effort, or that sadness isn't going to take you anywhere worth going. You have to remember that being sad is only step one, and that there's more to life than sadness.

I have been in the pits myself, and I have only managed to climb as far out of them as I have because I decided I was going to get out no matter what it took. I fucking clawed my way out, one step at a time, and even though I still get frustrated at how hard it is to make progress, I keep going. I have learned the hard way that it's okay to sit with my sadness for a time, but I can't let it lead the way, and I can't take it with me.

Hope has to be the light that guides my way. Sadness can be a sign along the path, or a spot to rest and think, but I would never trust it to be the thing that leads me to happiness. I'm never gonna say that it's bad to be sad because it's not! I think humans need to be sad sometimes to help ourselves grow. But it needs to be experienced in moderation, and never to the point where it leads our path.

I make stupid decisions when I'm sad.

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away-ward · 7 months ago

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KOOOOOOOOO,!!!.,

remember when anon and you discussed about willemmy and pd really thought we're the ones who read their book wrong when really it's their writing was whack? A couple of hours ago, willemmy stans on twitter are so mad because these pd replies in facebook.

delete space bwteen / and i:

https://x.com/ indieivar/status/1781880481740464260?s=61

delete space btween / and d:

https://x.com/ dearreadrr/status/1782044429635006885?s=61

girl, they really did NOT respwct their readers, AT ALL. they treat us like we 're dumb 😭 ohmygod i really am so upset about this? Like? Idkek what to say anymore, because my biggest upset about your many discussions with anon about how PD liked to gaslight readers when they wrote about situation a but they told us no, it was b, was right all along? Wtf? No because they literally said we dont like willemmy because its reverse grumpy sunshine?? And not because its their fault for listening to fb moms about inserting alex into nightfall? what the fuck is this kind of delusion? Pd is really the kind of author thats so?.. ugh. Idk man, god. I'm just so disappointed. They could just say, hey i'm i was stuck in a pickle when i wrote nightfall or something but to just say these? Why are we being gaslighted? Wtf?

ohhhh but they had time to build damon and rika's arcs? Oh yeahhhh. Ughhhh and they even gave us bonuses about them. I hate it here. I'm so upset idk.

Heyyy!!

Actually @kathanislilbitch posted about these earlier and we talked about it a bit there. I'm not sure exactly which ask you're referencing. If you get the number, I'll be happy to look, but no worries. I just might have some statements I need to walk back😅

That being said, it's super frustrating to see. The op in the screenshots seemed to ask for a guy that wasn't a jerk, and PD was like "well, I tried and nobody liked it."

And part of the problem was Alex, as well as the other characters trampling all over willemmy's time together. But people also didn't like how Will treated Emory outside of Alex. PD seems to struggle with understanding what really makes their MLI seem like jerks.

Either way, they clearly don't want to talk about Alex and it's probably because they're not going to change their mind, so it's a conversation that won't go anywhere. That's fair for them. It's their right. But then don't ask, and don't act like you don't know and haven't heard the complaints before.

It's ashame they won't just say they liked the Alex arc and understand that people don't, but it is what they wrote and they won't apologize for it. At least that would be honest.

Sorry this hurts. I can't say I'm too emotional-tied to PDs opinions, so for the most part I can ignore them and move on. Still, I definitely get that for those who want to be heard this isn't easy. I'm not sure what else to say other than try to focus more on the community and less on PD.

I'm sorry I'm probably not much help or comfort! But thank you for bringing this up. I'm sure so many feel the same way.

-ko

#asked and answered 280 #asked and answered #devil's night series #emory scott #will grayson iii #willemmy

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divineerdrick · 10 months ago

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One Piece: Episode 48 and Chapter 97

Bit later than I'd hoped for my first episode of the week, but let's get back to the cruise!

Oo! New OP! Guess that makes sense since we're officially out of the East Blue!

Really high energy, but not making much of an impression yet. I'm tempted to go through and look at some of these individual frames, but I'm pretty sure they're aimed at manga readers.

Of course Sanji cares more about all the women then actually getting ingredients.

Oh and even more of course! Of course Sanji is the first Straw Hat to set eyes on the new femme fatale. Here we go . . .

Would this face lie to you, Usopp?

Ah! We have our teased villain! Those two cigars were in both Netflix and the end of the East Blue arc. Named Marines have been about 50/50 for actually being someone to care about. Let's see what this guy can do.

Is that a weapon I spy?

Yep~ Nicely done little tease there. Looks like a big jitte. This guy seems to want a challenge. But Smoker at least seems to not be a complete jerk. Let's see if that carries through.

Oh! Looks like we're going to get to see him perform on a villain of the week before we get our fight with the Straw Hats!

Interesting! I get the impression he realized exactly who Luffy was. But he decided to guide him to the execution platform anyway. Also he seems to have some way to control the smoke. Don't know if it's Devil Fruit like suggested or something like what Kuro could do. I know there's another power system in this anime, but I don't know much about it yet.

And here she is! She's one of the last characters I met in the manga before starting this.

I didn't mention it in the big post, but I was pretty sure Kuina's death was BS. If you don't actually see a body you can't confirm a character is dead in most anime, especially Shonen. And death via backstory? Yeah, no chance.

Zoro seems to be getting that vibe too, but only for just a moment. I'm curious what's going on here.

Looks like we're going to get some lore, or at least legend, around the King of the Pirates. Just what Luffy needs to hear XD

You know, so many people see the spirit of the Pirate King in Luffy, it makes me wonder if they're doing some kind of reincarnation thing. Luffy's not old enough to do the whole "born at the exact moment." But if the One Piece afterlife has some kind of trial for reincarnation, he might be just the right age.

Of course, it could just be Oda using a shorthand for the right kind of adventurous spirit to be this level of hero.

Then again . . .

Nice tease! I like how they're building Smoker up!

This scene had me running back to Netflix. Although I didn't catch Smoker in the crowd, they sure were teasing plenty other people. Can't wait to meet them all!

Now, let's do some reading!

We begin with this auspicious looking chapter page! Look at how shocked and terrified Koby is!

So the events of Lougetown are the same in both, but the order is different. I'll be entering the next episode knowing about Kitetsu. However not everything has been the same, so things might play out differently. For example, in the anime Zoro broke the girls glasses when he met her. Here she's helping him pick his new swords. Additionally, Smoker met Luffy before he found the execution platform.

I'm wondering why they broke the glasses like that. She knows about Zoro in the manga, maybe they're planning on her recognizing him too? Either way, tip toeing around these difference might be a little tricky. I really might need to see if there's a list of a good order to watch the anime and read the manga together.

#one piece liveblog #live blogging #liveblogging #liveblog #live blog #one piece spoilers #one piece

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psychic-refugee · 2 years ago

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It’s so painfully obvious there is no critical thinking in a lot of people reacting. I’m sure it’s a good and even mix of people who are young and are having knee jerk reactions, and there are others who are trolls capitalizing on a potential “safe” person to shit on, this applies to both the accused and the accuser. Either way, those responding are just so confidently spewing an opinion either way with little to no concrete evidence.

Believe Women/Victims does not mean believe them and skip due process or a trial. It’s “don't assume women as a gender are especially deceptive or vindictive, and recognize that false allegations are less common than real ones.” Doyle, Jude (30 November 2017). Despite What You May Have Heard, “Believe Women” Has Never Meant “Ignore Facts”. Elle, https://www.elle.com/culture/career-politics/a13977980/me-too-movement-false-accusations-believe-women/

Believe Women means to take their story at face value and allow them room to tell their story. It does not mean we don’t look at or don’t question the evidence she is putting forward.

Screenshots over the internet with no metadata is not evidence. A twitter handle isn’t even evidence of a real person. For all I know, these people are anti-Canadian psy-ops. With all the ways to manipulate images and even video, I would never base any opinion on anything I saw from a third party. Acknowledge that it COULD be authentic and ask more questions. Ask for the metadata. If she could screenshot it, that means its still on her phone.

Questioning evidence is not supporting the accused. Please believe me that you do not want to live in a world where there is a crime that we literally take on word alone. That won’t end well for anybody.

So, do I think all accusations should be believed at face value (believe women) and should be investigated? Yes. Do I think PHW should be subject to a deposition after the Canadian authorities gather evidence with hopefully preserved cell phones metadata and cell phone records, if indicted? Yes. Do I think all the accusers should be subject to deposition? Yes. Do I think all of PHW’s “friends” named or referred to in the accusations should also be deposed? Yes. Should a timeline be established, and the accused be given a chance to refute or give an alibi? Yes. Should both sides be granted full access to all evidence they plan to use at trial and use their own expert witness to speak on the evidence? Yes. Should both sides also speak on the evidence they proffer to give context? Yes.

If any of the accusers had attempted to go to authorities and they were quickly dismissed without any further investigation, should those authorities be held accountable as well? Yes.

Is the timing suspicious? NO. Timing is never suspicious IMO. There are so many reasons why a victim would not come forward “immediately.” One being that if they were ignored previously, then their statements are less likely to be ignored if there is an audience. If the world were perfect, then these accusations could be made relatively soon after the event and dealt with properly in the first instance. But it’s not a perfect world. Victims aren’t taken seriously, or maybe their accusation goes to the back of the line due to restricted or limited resources. Perhaps the accuser was so traumatized they needed time to process. Maybe they needed time to even admit they were assaulted at all. There is so much guilt and shame that can go into being a victim of assault, that people seem to conveniently forget or glaze over. There are a million reasons for delay, so timing is not any indication of fabrication.

There’s also this nebulous idea of the “right time” to come forward is. It’s a moving goal post, and honestly just shouldn’t be a question. It’s really only asked to undermine the accuser’s character and not a testament of what happened.

We should also remember that the accuser is not on trial (and technically no one is as of this post as no criminal charges have even been filed, nor a civil suit). The job of the accuser is to a) make the accusation and charge, and b) have evidence to corroborate their accusation that can stand up to scrutiny. That’s it. They should not have to defend themselves before you have the accused defend themselves.

One of the absolute worst takes I’ve read so far is seeing PHW’s social media accounts go silent/not allowing comments is somehow indicative of guilt. NO. If you ever find yourself in legal trouble SHUT UP and lawyer up. This whole idea that you have to immediately take some sort of defensive position in public, is just the worst take and terrible legal advice.

Also, what does allowing randos on social media comment on your pages do for your defense? The court isn’t going to take outside party Twitter comments as signed affidavits or depositions. Allowing people to shit on you or “simp” for you is not a good defense. There needs to be a legal hold equivalent to shutting down ALL socials when you get into legal trouble, where the accused is not allowed to delete or edit posts. Also, close off all avenues of you potentially incriminating yourself, or anything you say being used against you. It’s the same in America as it is in Canada: Anything you say can be used against you. Innocent people misspeak or say stupid shit just as guilty people do.

PHW has the privilege of probably having legal counsel on retainer, if not by his own coffers then Netflix or whatever talent agency that represents him. People have a vested monetary interest in his career. That means, as soon as The Powers That Be of his talent team knew of these accusations, they told him to shut the fuck up. ANY attorney, or even PR person until they get the attorney, will tell you this. Being legally literate and proactive is not a sign of guilt.

Given the climate of Hollywood, I also wouldn’t be surprised if his team had told him BEFORE any accusation hit that if this sort of thing happened, the protocol is to SHUT THE FUCK UP.

A good lawyer is a prepared lawyer. Having good counsel and listening to them, is not an indication of guilt. Don’t ever let anyone tell you otherwise.

His silence could be so many things. Maybe he’s getting reamed out by Netflix and his agency, soon to be dropped by both. Maybe his team is doing a lot of damage control and is trying to curate a response. It’s literally only been a day AND he was overseas. He may have spent half the day flying back to Canada to deal with this.

It’s also very possible he and his team are putting together a case. If the accuser is speaking of the issue on Twitter without any advice from counsel, his team could potentially be waiting for her to say something incriminating. They’re giving her time to damage her own story. With an accusation like this, silence and going dark would have been her better option.

I understand that she may have felt she had no choice but to release the accusation on Twitter, especially if the police “did nothing.” I won’t judge her going to social media, I really don’t know her motivation and I don’t want to speculate as I don’t think that has anything to do with the accusations themselves.

Those dealing with trauma cannot be expected to make perfect legal decisions.

What I want to happen is that they do things by the book, so we can get the best shot at the truth, whatever that ends up being.

#percy hynes white

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jinxpologist · 2 years ago

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either you're a sock or you're being manipulated. it's happened to me before, please take a neutral stance and try to listen to everyone on the other side as well, even if they're jerks to you. Question Orion. Talk to some adults or something about what's going on and see what they think. it will do you so much good to learn this lesson the easy way.

can you guys please not say this to me. genuinely. i get you’re trying to help but just don’t. don’t. i asked people not to send things related to this. as an abuse victim, this whole situation is insanely fucking triggering. i wanted to support and be loving towards someone who had only ever been supportive and loving towards me. i really thought it was a very open and shut case.

i’ve already said i don’t want to say much of anything publicly right now in relation to the situation (just so you know, my silence is my own personal choice as i get my bearings, because my world has been more or less rocked to hell, in case you haven’t noticed). please please please just. wait until i say something. let me process the chaos so i can say something with a clear mind and all my thoughts and feelings in order. thank you.

EDIT: would like to add that i mean no ill will towards op at all. i hope to make that clear.

#ask #anoyint #kwite situation #thank you at least for retaining some civility #but i don’t like the condescending tone

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skeleton-in-a-hoodie · 2 years ago

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The team all take turns staying with Splinter whilst he's benched.

under a readmore cause this got longer than i was expecting

Donnie tends to stay with Splinter the most - he's got the medical know-how in case Splinter suddenly gets worse, and Don can work in his lab the rest of the time. It ends up being a bit like those weeks between Splinter dying and them finding out about it, in that Splinter will sit with him and watch him work. Admitedly Splinter's ghost form would take up most of the space in the lab, so he sit by the door instead. Don finds that he still likes the company. Sometimes he'll look up and Splinter will be gone, but Donnie knows his father will be back in a few minutes with something for Donnie to eat. At semi-regular intervals Splinter will encourage him to take a break, and if Donnie refuses he'll find an one impossibly long arm stretching into the lab and all pulling him towards the door.

Mikey and Raph are roughly tied for spending the next most amount with Splinter.

Mikey will play a video game whilst Splinter watches. He tries to pick puzzle games, especially whilst co-op games are out (controller + metling hands is not a good combo). Mikey handles the combat elements and Splinter figures out the puzzles. Sometimes Mikey will put cartoons on instead and Splinter gets treated to an indepth commentary on them. Turns out Mikey knows a lot about animation.

When it's Raph's turn, he'll grab his knitting or embroidery supplies and sit next to his dad whilst he works.

(Chompy is there too and he is fascination by Splinter. Keeps biting Splinter's tail and trying to climb up him.)

At first Splinter will either nap or watch Raph - his hands aren't in a state where he can work on his own projects and he doesn't want to stain all their textiles black. Once his form is more stable and solid, he has to semi relearn how to use his hands and doing embroidery with Raph ends up being a decent way to get practice. Raph knits Splinter a giant blanket.

April and Casey are next in the order. April is busy checking in on everyone else and making sure they're okay, plus school and getting ready for university. She's consantly busy, so isn't in the rotar as much as the others. When it's her turn, she more or less just lays down and tries to relax. Sometimes they talk a lot, other times they don't and just sit in a companionable silence. When he's feeling better, they start training her powers again.

Casey gets given less turns due to school and the fact that whilst Splinter's living form ended up being exempt from his fear of rats, his ghost form isn't. It takes Casey a while to warm up to Splinter again, mostly because his brain has a knee jerk panic reaction. A Golden Girls marathon ends up kicking his fear in the teeth though. When it's his next turn, they marathon telanovellas. Casey also learns that Splinter is a nightmare to play card games against. At some point Casey convinces Raph and Splinter to play poker with him and it goes about as well for Raph and Casey as you'd expect.

Karai drops by when she can (head of a ninja clan + gang war), which isn't as often as she'd like but they make the most of it. These visits end up evolving into their training sessions.

Leo spents the most time away from the Lair out of everyone. By this point he's closer to the acceptance part of mourning, and his anger at Splinter is starting to give way to understanding, but he still finds it difficult to be around Splinter. It's a combination of Leo feeling like he failed to protect his father, still being upset with Splinter, and discomfort at the realisaion that he understands why Splinter did what he did because Leo inherited Splinter's sense of self-preservation.

That's not even getting into the gang war and how Leo is currently the active head of the clan, because Splinter is in no fit state for that role right now, so Leo can't really afford to not be on patrol. In a way they're already pushing it by having someone stay at the Lair with Splinter, like they're technically down two clan members that way, but Leo is also legitimately afraid he'll go back home one morning to find Splinter destabilised whilst they were gone and all that's left is an inky stain on the floor.

But the trust between them is starting to be rebuilt. It helps that Splinter is beginning to open up to them more, so Leo doesn't have to wonder what else Splinter isn't telling them.

Splinter is honestly surprised one night when Leo tells Raph he's in charge of patrol that night and to fill him in when they all get back. Leo also isn't really sure what to do whilst everyone else is gone and there's several awkward minutes where neither he or Splinter say anything, before Splinter suggets finding something interesting to watch. Eventually, they start talking. It's not the most relaxing conversation in the world, but it's a lot calmer than their previous ones and at the end of it Leo leans against Splinter's skull.

#tmnt #tmnt 2012 #tmnt au #ghost splinter 2 electric boogalo

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screambirdscreaming · 2 months ago

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#I would add if you don't feel able to shift the actual feelings pretneding is better than nothing#like we're not doing thought crimes#you're not seeing the true person but whatever it's your business in your own head

^see, I would actually disagree. About that being better than nothing. I mean to each their own preference, but for me, someone pretending they're not misgendering me in their head is not a social courtesy, it's just exhausting. And I don't mean that they're doing "thought crimes" or whatever, I don't really feel like that framework has anything to do with it? It just means I'm going to find them stressful and unpleasant to interact with. Like anyone who is misgendering me. And either they are doing well enough at pretending that i would feel fucked up and betrayed if i learned how they actually thought of me, or - infinitely more common! - they're doing juuuust well enough at pretending to respect my gender that I don't have an overt foothold to call them out on the ways they're constantly, persistently misgendering me in tone or implications.

Again, I know that my stance here is not a popular stance. But I really feel like the way pronouns have become a fighting ground of gender acceptance has actually dragged the whole conversation about presentation and perception way off track.

I get how it happened. Pronouns make sense as a point of interface, something you can declare about yourself in an outward-facing way without getting into all the details and intricacies of your gender. "Just call me this please." But it gets into this weird dynamic - assuming the pronouns you've asked for don't match the way the person talking to you is percieving you. The options are basically:

1 ) They refuse to use your pronouns and are overtly a jerk about it. Sucks but also they suck, disregard their opinion.

2 ) They take into consideration that your pronouns indicate that the way they were perceiving you is not right, and put in effort to change their view of you. Which doesn't mean perfect or instant results! There's often a lot of steps forward and back, or those sort of awkward-but-sweet attempts to affirm your gender in ways that don't really match your personality. But like, they're trying. To me the really significant factor is when you can tell that someone is genuinely making an effort to change their perspective, on you or on how gender works at all.

3 ) They change the pronouns they use but not the way they conceptualize you. I think a core piece of the issue is that people act like this is on a continuum with option two. But in my experience it is not. It's a seperate type of effort that people make - ok, to indulge you, to be polite, I'll take this extra pause and change up the words I say. People do this instead of changing how they conceptualize you. And there is some genuine confusion here! Like the breakthrough that OP's mom had was literally realizing that they'd misunderstood the assignment, that they'd focused on the wrong thing. And part of what propagates that confusion is the way people get up in arms about pronoun use as a bottom line, like you have to do at least this much!! And then people make a big production of how hard it is and how you have to appreciate how much effort they're putting into correcting themselves every single time they use your pronouns, because they're sooo committed to indulging you in your weird little gender delusions.

Again, I get that a lot of people experience a lot of distress every time they're misgendered, and getting people to just Stop Saying The Wrong Word is a pressing quality of life issue. But for me, the one thing that I actually care about is for people to stop putting me in a conceptual gender box and treating me accordingly. And what this tends to mean, is that for every single person i meet who is not already deep in queer spheres, I have to go about cracking their tidy little gender concept like a walnut. Did you know there's more options?? Did you know you don't just have to take your gender and suck it up?? Did you know you can stop pulling people down in the gender crab bucket with you?? And in my experience, it is actually a hurdle to my process of getting this point across, if they've already absorbed a narrative that "some silly girls want to be called 'they' so just humor that." Which doesn't do shit for me!

Actually, getting back to the point about thought crime, because I think that's actually relevant to unpick here.

We're not talking about crime in any sense, we're talking about being rude and shitty to people in ways that are unpleasant to interact with. Like many areas of discourse, misgendering has been flattened into incomprehensibility by making the framework one of moral ills and harm, completely cutting out the concept of "rude and unpleasant" which in fact accounts for most of human social friction.

Of course, thinking about someone in a way they wouldn't like doesn't hurt them, and of course it isn't a moral issue! It can still be rude, though, especially if it's someone you know. If you talk to them or treat them in ways that reflect those thoughts, they're justified in finding that really unpleasant, and in not wanting to interact with you. That's not a moral issue either!

Misgendering is an issue with a lot of emotional charge, especially since we're often using it to gauge whether someone means us ill in a more serious transphobic way. And even when it's relatively harmless, it still sucks. That said, I get that it can be genuinely difficult to change how you perceive someone, and that people put a lot of self-doubt and even self-hate on themselves if they're not able to keep up with doing that work. And then, having said that, other people will get frustrated if you offer too much grace on that concept, because they're sick of hearing about how hard it is from people like their parents who they really feel should be putting in that effort towards such a significant relationship in their lives. It's messy!

I don't think it does anyone any good to pretend there's a consistent, universal baseline of "acceptable behavior" where if you meet it, you're clear, and if you don't you're an asshole. Not only does that fail to account for the complexity of social interactions and people's perspectives and needs, it also creates a built-in loophole for any asshole who wants to toe the line of "acceptable" behavior.

It frustrates me to see how much this has happened with pronouns.

#sorry for putting your tags on blast here.#but when I reblogged this earlier I was debating adding something getting more into this #split in the concept of pronouns and misgendering #And how I really strongly feel that the misgendering that *matters* is the conceptual part and not the words #So seeing a reblog from me of the opposite opinion just kind of. Catalyzed my actually writing all this out.#No hate to you on this disagreement.#I've been chewing on this concept for a while so. Good to write it out.#Might make a more coherent standalone version at some point.

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