#Doug Misicko

[queersatanic]

Is it dead-naming to refer to “Lucien Greaves” as “Doug Misicko”?

No, it is not.

Sometimes well-meaning people ask this question sincerely, but in practice, it usually feels like people raise and deploy the specter of dead-naming as a way to distract from all of the other criticisms of The Satanic Temple and its owners that are completely indefensible.

He is not calling himself names like “Greaves” or “Doug Mesner” out of a sincere desire to identify differently than his government name but because he is attempting to make it more difficult to hold him accountable as the owner of a collection of for-profit and tax-exempt corporations he solely or jointly controls totally.

Moreover, we’re still being sued by The Satanic Temple in ̷f̷e̷d̷e̷r̷a̷l̷ ̷c̷o̷u̷r̷t̷ ̷a̷n̷d̷ ̷n̷o̷w̷ King County Superior Court.

TST is also still suing Newsweek and its reporter (but maybe not her anymore!) for writing about us. In addition, the Temple is now suing a TikToker in Texas for talking about our case. Check the pinned post for more.

[sophieinwonderland]

Hi!

First: Lucien Greaves sucks, fuck him and all DID/plurality denialists.

That established, why do you not only insist on exclusively using his given name (Doug Mesner), but also accompany your valid criticism with mocking his chosen name?

Is it because Lucien Greaves is not a "normal" name? Do you deem a name he chose for himself not his "real" name? Are you against him having two names?

Aside from the fact that it's pointless to criticize him for something harmless when you can (and do) criticize him for the actual harm he does, all of these potential justifications for it cause collateral damage by throwing other totally innocent people under the bus (namely trans people and people from cultures whose traditions around names are different from yours).

I don't see these as comparable.

As I understand, Lucien Greaves isn't his chosen name. Or, to be more exact, Lucien Greaves is a stage name. A pseudonym. Like how Dwayne Johnson might call himself The Rock. In his personal life, Doug is Doug and always has been. Lucien Greaves is a name he uses specifically to protect him from social repercussions for his actions. (He's basically said as much.)

Doug wants a persona to be able to troll and toss SLAPP suits at people and ruin their lives. He wants to profit off of the suffering he causes, and still be able to go back home as Doug.

From what I've found, his actual name might actually be Doug Misicko and Doug Mesner is yet another pseudonym. Which, yeah, Mesner sounds like something he would choose too. But I'm not totally sure due to misinformation flying around about him. Or maybe disinformation to muddy the waters and further obfuscate his history.

And the specific name "Lucien Greaves," like everything else, is one intended to provoke a reaction. It's meant to sound like a movie villain. A pathetic man trying to make himself appear bigger and grow his reputation. Lucien Greaves is not a name, it's a trademarked brand owned by the United Federation of Churches LLC and a shield designed to protect him from those he harms.

[h2ohnotagain]

I *almost* gave them money years and years ago, then took a second look at the rightwing asshat attorney they were using. Their reasoning on why they went that route sounded specious, and I held off until I could do more research. Turns out that was the right call.

[queersatanic]

What happened?

One of the co-owners of the Temple claims he’s stepping down as national spokesperson after noted transphobe and longtime reactionary dingus David Silverman was touring The Satanic Temple’s headquarters/art gallery in Salem with Christine Shellska.

Satanic Temple owner Doug “Lucien Greaves” Misicko took a picture with Silverman (and Shellska) in front of TST’s “Baphomet with Children” statue.

Instead of apologizing or even explaining his seeming endorsement of a person now primarily known for being loathsome, Misicko doubled down and blamed everyone criticizing him.

Wait, that’s it?

Yeah, and it’s been tearing The Satanic Temple’s membership apart for the past few days to the extent Misicko is promising (again) to step down as national spokesperson.

OK. Back up. Who is David Silverman? Is he the Nazi lawyer guy?

That’s Marc Randazza you’re thinking of, but it makes sense that you’re confused because there are a lot of these figures. TST is awash in them, and that’s part of the problem.

Continue reading

[unwelcome-ozian]

pertaining to "lucien greaves" (doug mesner) of the satanic temple—clearly the name lucien is derived from lucifer but do we have any idea what the "greaves" means and where it came from?

Lucien Greaves (also known as Douglas Misicko or Doug Mesner) Douglas Alexander Misicko, born August 1975.

Misicko claims to have studied neuroscience with a specialty in false-memory syndrome. There is no such thing as false-memory syndrome. He harrasses survivors, and isn’t interested in the truth of SRA and TBMC.

The Danger Behind the “False Memory” Myth

I don’t know where his name came from.

T.W. Anti Semitism/white supremacist

While we’re on the topic of Lucien Greaves, I’ll post to his anti-semitic rant. He’s a white supremacist and The Satanic Temple should crumble into dust.

“Like, I think it’s okay to hate Jews if you hate them because they’re Jewish and they wear a stupid fuckin’ frisbie on their head [correct term: yarmulke or kippah] and walk around [and] think their God’s chosen people, but it’s not okay to hate somebody [‘born of Jewish blood’] just because their parents were stupid fuckin’ Jews and wore stupid frisbies on their head and thought the Jews were God’s chosen people […] Not everybody of Jewish blood is okay with me, it depends on if they follow the Jewish, uh… […] Satanic Jews are fine,” (Adam, “Doug Mesner [Lucien Greaves/Douglas Misicko] Satanic Temple Anti-Semitic Rant” (transcribed).” Source

Another LINK

Oz

[greatamericansatan]

If You Hail Satan, Come Correct

Woof.  I wanted to like The Satanic Temple and Lucien Greaves, but I randomly came across the real scoop on what low-down fash-friendly piles of shit they really are.  Representing myself as satanic, I feel the need to address this, and while I’m at it, help fix some of the harm they are doing in the world.

To start with, I need to make clear that I do not believe every member of TST is fascist or a scumbag.  Some just haven’t gotten the facts yet, and some who have feel too invested to acknowledge the truth.  To those of you who are good people, I hope you work things out.

But I also hope you can realize you don’t need TST and can represent Satan in your own ways.  There is absolutely nothing stopping you from walking away from TST en masse and starting your own Satanism.  Maybe it starts small, a facebook group or a twitter account, but it can turn into something just as big and certainly better.

Eugenics and Nazi Friendliness

I was ill-informed and had little idea that modern satanists were so cozy with antisemitism and nazism until I fell down this unfortunate rabbit hole.  What in the name of Hell is the point of rejecting Christ only to wallow in the shit ideals of his worst fanboys?

Lucien Greaves has made some half-assed apologies for antisemitic comments made on a radio show in 2003 as that came to light recently, and in the narrow context of that clip one could think of his comments as being more antitheist than antisemitic – he was saying jewish religious belief is his problem and jewish blood is not, in disagreement with the hosts of the radio show he was on.

But broaden that context just a little bit more, and things look much worse.  Why did he not rebuke the whole proceedings when his pals on the show went full sieg heil?  Why didn’t he bail?  Because he knew they were nazis going in, and he was OK with that.

The show itself was the “Might Is Right 24-Hour Radio Special” in honor of a new printing of racist / antisemitic book “Might is Right” – and Greaves (as “Doug Mesner”) was invited because he illustrated the book. Whatever terms or qualifiers he’s used for it (he had a site called “dysgenics” as late as 2018), Greaves has wholeheartedly endorsed eugenics on many occasions.  As recently as the founding of The Satanic Temple ten years after his appearance on that show, he was willingly associating with and involving the sieg heiling host of that very broadcast.

(Quick aside – the event hosts may or may not have identified as nazis and they didn’t actually say “sieg heil” but I don’t give an earthly shit about distinguishing between flavors of antisemite and the finer points of their ideologies.  Another guest on the show was prominent KKK figure Tom Metzger – in a segment of the show Greaves (Doug Misicko in the transcript) happily participated in.  Y’all are nazis; eat shit and die at your soonest convenience, thanks.)

Anyone who would oppose the hypocrisies and injustices of cultural christianity has to decide for theirself what they will propose in the wake of christianity’s defeat.  Because you’re not going to defeat xtianity at large, of course (only they can do that to themselves lol), but you are going to win some hearts and minds away from the pews and pulpits.  What are you giving them in exchange for what they’ve given up?

For some opposing xtianity is enough, like dictionary atheists who are iconoclasts without a care.  LaVey was in the pitiful thrall of Ayn Rand and his satanic bible owes its soul to her “objectivism.”  His Church of Satan and the satanic movement generally from that point on carried those values of cruelty and greed forward.  This was the movement from which Greaves emerged, only differing in that he was more fully atheistic than his predecessors.  Or maybe just more ableist.  From what I’ve seen, ableism was always his biggest hobbyhorse.

OK, greed as a value does seem to oppose the charity spoken of by Jesus, so satanic, right?  Wrong.  If we were just going to oppose xtianity as described in the bible, maybe.  But I don’t give a fuck about that.  I want to oppose xtianity as it is practiced in my culture, and all the harm it does – most of which is fueled by greed.  If you’re not doing that – fighting for the ability of people to enjoy life, fighting oppression – what’s the fucking point?

In their stances on gay rights and reproductive rights and religious freedom, The Satanic Temple has lured in thousands of progressive people – taken their time and money.  But was this truly deserved?  The organization is rotten at its core for the same reason the gnu atheist movement was: the founders centered ableism, the ability to feel superior to the “stupid” xtians, which is just about the quickest path to eugenics and nazism.

To this day, there are high ups within TST that have a history of consorting with nazi clowns like Mike Cernovich and Milo Yiannapolis.   TST have gone on record as being anti-antifa, and you know what you get when those antis zero out.

Reproductive Rights People Hate Them

Just because anti-abortion scumbags have had a great deal of success lately does not mean that the defenders of reproductive health have been failing at their jobs, only that fascists have been achieving horrific victories across the board.  But The Satanic Temple has opted to use that messaging to suck up activist dollars – to claim “We must accept the fact that traditional efforts to protect reproductive rights have failed.”

And what are they doing with the pro-abortion activist dollars?   They’re acting like $cientology in the way they veer between saying they’re a religion and denying that depending on what’s most advantageous in a given financial or legal situation, and not being at all transparent about where the money goes.

SLAPP Suit

All these issues and more led some Satanists in my part of the country to rebel, to make public critique of the organization.  The law protects criticism of religious organizations, but they’re still suing for business harm – a business when it suits them, a religion when it doesn’t.  The apostates are just regular people facing tens of thousands of dollars in legal expenses they can’t afford.  It’s a SLAPP suit working as intended, and you can see why I might find that something worth fighting against.

Support the Queer Satanic Apostasy.  Help defend them against the SLAPP suit.

–

[queersatanic]

@pashthewhimsical Do you see an entity using funding to fight for women's rights?

Because what you just got linked to was an article about how two men set up a for-profit, then a 501c3 nonprofit, then a tax-exempt church, which unlike other nonprofits has zero financial transparency and to make it worse, is called the same thing as the for-profit's "doing business as" name.

If you give $100 to The Satanic Temple, where does it go?

It is questionable whether TST is actually helping with regards to reproductive autonomy, but the inability to keep track of how much money is coming in and where it's going has been a consistent complaint of people within and outside of the org for years now.

At a minimum, hundreds of thousands of dollars in donations are coming in annually, but it's probably millions. Lots of people purchase memberships and merchandise from TST's webstore without realizing they are giving it to a for-profit corporation United Federation of Churches, LLC dba "The Satanic Temple", also owned and controlled by co-owners Doug Misicko and Cevin Soling.

"Just trust me, bro" is not how most nonprofits act and even plenty of churches at least bother to publish budgets.

In contrast, this is what co-owner Doug Misicko a.k.a. "Lucien Greaves" says under oath when being deposed about it by the state of Arkansas:

Q. So, if I understand what you’re saying, there is — there is The Satanic Temple, which is kind of an umbrella. And then under that umbrella you have: The Satanic Temple, Inc.; you have United Federation of Churches; you have Reason Alliance; and then you have Cinephobia?

A. I don’t even see those things as under any type of umbrella. These are — and, you know, things like Reason Alliance and the United Federation of Churches are completely different to me than something like Cinephobia; because Cinephobia is representative of another project within The Satanic Temple. United Federation of Churches, Reason Alliance where more things, entities that emerged from consultation with either accountants or lawyers meant to help us better manage The Satanic Temple. But to me The Satanic Temple has always been this kind of one thing.

Q. So and I’m — I’m trying to understand how you understand this to work. So you claim that The Satanic Temple is tax exempt?

A. No. It demonstrably is.

Q. Okay. But when you talk about The Satanic Temple, that includes organizations that are for profit and not tax exempt; right? You see the struggle I’m having?

A. I — I don’t — I don’t see that as being — I mean, I see plenty of religious organizations that operate in the same — same manner, so it’s not something to me that makes me think that this is something untoward or something questionable.

Q. Well, I’m not even suggesting at — I mean, at this point that it’s questionable. I’m just trying to understand, you know, all of the individual statements that I’m seeing, one being The Satanic Temple is tax exempt, another one being that all of these corporate entities are related and we can refer to all — all of them in some way as “The Satanic Temple.” And those include for-profit businesses. That’s what I’m — that’s the disconnect I’m — I’m feeling and not understanding. Can you shed any light on that?

A. Well, I’m not really sure what the question is, because there is a tax exempt religious organization of The Satanic Temple; but it can also engage in for-profit commerce, a online Web store or whatever else. And, you know, my understanding of it is that this is how you do those things, how you do those various things.

Yes, The Satanic Temple claims that it's a good cause.

In fact, all of the evidence from sources other than themselves is just the opposite.

Me: capitalism is evil. Jeff bezos is evil

Also me: every amazon purchase I make donates to the Satanic temple, therefore funding abortion rights lawsuits in red states.

I now feel justified in my consumerism lol

[queersatanic]

"Lucien Greaves" and The Satanic Temple have a lot to answer for

When confronted with examples of Doug “Lucien Greaves” Misicko’s pattern of reactionary words and actions over the past two decades, usually, The Satanic Temple’s sycophants offer one of a small handful of stock excuses to deflect and otherwise resist actually dealing with it.

Their most recent tack has been “Lucien Greaves has changed! Actually, ‘The Satanic Temple is a church for imperfect people‘, which is why our religion is great!”— an excuse that exceeds parody but more seriously points to the dangers of what is now required of TSTers by way of loyalty.

And yet as we have said, “When it comes to The Satanic Temple, there’s always more and it’s always worse.”

Starting February 26, the admin(s) behind The.Satanic.Wiki began releasing more clips on Twitter and Kolektiva from audio and corrected transcripts of old Internet radio shows The Satanic Temple’s co-owner Doug Misicko used to make with his friend and longtime collaborator Shane Bugbee, primarily from the incomplete audio of a show called The ABCs of the Alphabet.

This was back when Misicko was using the pseudonym “Doug Mesner” rather than “Lucien Greaves” as he mostly does now.

These conversations—intended for public consumption!—are incredibly bad, but of course all context added to them makes them even worse.

We’ve censored the slurs below, but in the actual audio clips, they are presented as they were said at the time: in full and without obfuscation or shame.

Jump-to links:

“Lucien Greaves” wants to write a “[ableist r-slur] story”

“Lucien Greaves” on the Oklahoma City Bombing and the bad PR of killing children

“Lucien Greaves” talks about “The View” (TV show) and network [n-slurs]

“Lucien Greaves” on Black co-workers and cunnilingus

“Lucien Greaves” talks about the KKK and killing [Jewish people]

“Lucien Greaves” talks eugenics and “who decides”

“Lucien Greaves” on “N-words”

“Lucien Greaves” makes his case for fascism

“Lucien Greaves” really hates Detroit

The Satanic Temple’s co-owner “Lucien Greaves” on public displays of religion like Judaism and Islam

“Lucien Greaves” recalls his pilgrimage to fascist Italy

“Lucien Greaves” talks about arson and high school bullying as Nazi national anthem plays

“Lucien Greaves” on burning down churches (and temples) plus why we should nuke the “Holy Land”

“Lucien Greaves” and the OfficeMax gay Hindu organ harvester “prank call” story

“Lucien Greaves” on domestic abuse (he blames the victims)

“Lucien Greaves” explains the (true) importance of abortion access: “It’s not so much about dead babies as less people”

The titles The Satanic Wiki gave them are fairly short, and it’s often difficult to describe fully all of what makes them terrible. For example, while Misicko is talking about arson and high school bullying, Bugbee plays the Nazi anthem along under Misicko’s story; how do you best emphasize and summarize that?

In any case, if you still have friends who are supportive or otherwise ignorant of The Satanic Temple, and they don’t want to read a long article about it, any of the below clips should encapsulate quickly why these people are not to be trusted.

(For those not up to date, while these clips are from 2003-2004, the issue is that Misicko and Bugbee were close up through 2013 when Misicko tapped Bugbee to help re-launch TST after the first attempt failed, and their leaked emails and gravestone-teabagging stunt together demonstrate how little change had actually happened in that decade. More of that history here.)

[theunofficialchurchofsatan]

“The Satanic Temple Fact Sheet” (Essay by Reverend Joel Ethan)

The Satanic Temple is a self described "Yes Men" styled satire/activist group that uses satanic-themed imagery and language to get media and public attention. They are not Satanists, do not have shared “deeply held beliefs” and are unrelated to Satanism, a globally recognized religion founded in 1966 by Anton Szandor LaVey.

SOME FACTS TO CONSIDER:

In 2013, Spectacle Films ran ads looking to cast characters for a mockumentary about a fake religion, that film was to be titled “The Satanic Temple” — the casting director was listed as “Lucien Greaves.”

[newsbusters.org | doubtfulnews.com | miamiherald.typepad.com | ritualabuse.us]

Launched in 2013, The Satanic Temple’s (TST) website claimed to believe in and worship a literal Satan. The TST trademark filing contains documents that have these claims as well.

[web.archive.org | bizapedia.com]

TST Co-founder Malcolm Jarry (not his real name) has stated that TST was originally conceived as a backlash to US President Bush-era “religious protections.”

[nytimes.com]

Now credited as co-founder and spokesperson, “Lucien Greaves” is in fact a character that has been played by several people, including an unnamed actor, Shane Bugbee and currently by Doug Mesner (not his real name). Shane Bugbee was paid by Spectacle Films for his work with TST. There is a yet unnamed 3rd TST co-founder.

[shanebugbee.com]

In a 2013 Vice interview “Doug Mesner” says that TST is satire and states that it is “like a darker Yes Men.”

[vice.com]

In a 2014 Village Voice article “Malcolm Jerry” is outed as the filmmaker Cevin Soling, owner of Spectacle Films.

[villagevoice.com]

Spectacle Films has documented most major TST public events.

[duckduckgo.com]

10 years before TST, “Doug Mesner” produced illustrations for an edition of Might Is Right, published by Shane Bugbee (who was a Church of Satan member at the time) with an introduction by Anton LaVey, founder of the CoS, and afterword by Peter H. Gilmore, current High Priest of the CoS. Originally published in 1890, Might Is Right is cited and paraphrased in LaVey’s 1969 book The Satanic Bible, which is universally accepted by religious scholars as the founding document of the religion Satanism. In the following years “Mesner” would often appear on Radio Free Satan, an internet radio show closely connected to the CoS.

[archive.org | shanebugbee.com | cimminneeholt.com]

The original TST website listed Neil Bricke as the founder. This was apparently a smear campaign that was removed a few months later, as Neil Bricke is actually the founder of SMART, who has had a longstanding public feud with “Doug Mesner,” an alias used since the mid 1990’s by Douglas Misicko.

[ritualabuse.us | returntothepit.com | ritualabuse.us | web.archive.org]

“The Satanic Temple” is a registered Trademark of United Federation of Churches LLC, which is listed as registered to Douglas Misicko, 519 Somerville Ave., No 288, Somerville, MA 02143-3238. Reason Alliance LTD is a religious non-profit also registered to Douglas Misicko at the same address.

[bizapedia.com | bizapedia.com/ma/united-federation-of-churches-llc.html | irsexempt.com | taxexemptworld.com]

Reason Alliance LTD paid bills for, and provided 501c3 documentation in support of, TST’s After School Satan Club in Seattle, however their own website claims they do not believe religious organizations should be tax exempt.

[judicialwatch.org | judicialwatch.org | freebeacon.com | afterschoolsatan.com]

Original TST “High Priest” Brian Werner states in his 2014 resignation video that TST is a political organization that has nothing to do with Satanism. Werner claims the actual people behind TST have no interest in or connection with Satanism, a claim echoed by Bugbee.

[youtube.com | shanebugbee.com]

TST spokespeople are on record saying you do not have to be a Satanist to join TST, you simply need to support their political efforts.

[brokeassstuart.com]

The Oklahoma 10 Commandments monument case was won by ACLU representing two Christians opposed to the monument. TST and its Baphomet monument were not involved with the case, however they claimed victory publicly, an intentionally confusing narrative picked up by many media outlets. This tactic has become MO for the TST.

[acluok.org]

BACKGROUND CONTEXT ON TST

Misicko aka “Mesner” (as “Lucien Greaves”) has claimed The Satanic Temple has no shared lineage with the Church of Satan, though he was publicly associated with many Church of Satan members and projects in the decade before The Satanic Temple launched. TST uses imagery and language obviously inspired by well-documented Church of Satan publications and trademarks, that are different enough to avoid legal issue but similar enough to cause public confusion. Indeed, The Satanic Temple is often referenced by the media as the Church of Satan, and there is evidence of people joining The Satanic Temple thinking they have joined the Church of Satan. (youtube.com). Occam’s razor would suggest this is not unintentional. It should be clear by examining their site and public statements that The Satanic Temple has no consistent nor “deeply held beliefs” and is not practicing the globally-recognized religion of Satanism established by LaVey in 1966, rather it uses the term Satanism and popularly associated imagery as a means to get attention from the media. It’s also entirely plausible that Spectacle Films is still in production of the feature length mockumentary for which they began casting in 2013.

SATANISM AS A RECOGNIZED RELIGION

Satanism as a religion and philosophy was first codified in 1966 when Anton LaVey founded the Church of Satan. Prior to this, the terms "Satanist" and "Satanism" were used primarily as insults and a means for condemnation as heresy by Christians without any specific definition. Religious scholars are in agreement on this point and while many people have claimed knowledge of long standing “secret Satanic traditions,” no evidence has ever been put forth to confirm these statements. These claims have been researched and carefully examined and are considered fraudulent by the academic community.

As Satanism is a recognized ���New Religious Movement,” it's important for an understanding of what is and what is not Satanism to be maintained. “The Satanic Panic” in the 1980s-90s is evidence of a willful distortion of this religion as the concept of a conspiracy of murderous “satanists” was promoted primarily by evangelical Christians and taken-up by the media worldwide. Law enforcement debunked the claims of the evangelists but not before many people had become victims of false accusations of ritual child abuse, sacrifice, and kidnapping.

Some Christians—despite the five decades of a clearly defined belief system called Satanism expounded by a worldwide organization—still use this term to reference any acts or beliefs they consider to be “evil” or simply contrary to their own beliefs. Ill-informed members of law enforcement agencies and journalists, often believers in some form of Christianity, also continue to misrepresent the religion of Satanism. If the definition of Satanism is not kept clear, any unstable or insane person working from a Christian context could claim their actions were due to self-termed “satanic beliefs,” thus criminally implicating actual open adherents of Satanism to the public at large, people who are not generally familiar with the beliefs and tenets of religious Satanism. The recent case of murderer Amanda Barbour, who along with her boyfriend murdered one person but claimed to have murdered many others as part of an interstate “satanic cult,” is another example.

The Church of Satan works publicly to maintain a clear understanding of the atheist, individualistic, and law-abiding nature of Satanism and regularly consults with law enforcement as well as journalistic researchers and academicians to this end.

[queersatanic]

It's never been confirmed anywhere that we know of, but the name "Greaves" is probably intended as a dig at former International Society for the Study of Trauma and Dissociation (ISSTD) president George B. Greaves. That's a link to the George Greaves entry on the Grey Faction website, with Grey Faction being a continuation of the work of the "False Memory Syndrome Foundation" because that org was one of Doug Misicko's pet causes.

The original fake story for The Satanic Temple was that it was a theistic satanic cult founded by a guy named "Neil Bricke" (sic); that was a reference to a real person named "Neil Brick" who has been behind the Stop Mind-control And Ritual-abuse Today (SMART) group/newsletter.

While TST co-founder and producer Cevin Soling (a.k.a. "Malcolm Jarry") really hated public schools and wanted to use a satanic religious group to gum that up, the other founder Doug Misicko had been feuding with satanic panic figures for years already, back when he was using the pseudonym "Doug Mesner".

So, it would fit the pattern of referencing people that Misicko hated, and "Greaves" has the added benefit of also being a piece of armor, so it sounds almost cartoonishly satanic when taken at face value.

We wrote some more about the early days here.

And however much it matters, even though the "I think it's OK to hate Jews" portion of that Internet radio broadcast is rightfully remembered for being terrible, he said a lot of things that were even worse than that, both in that same broadcast and in others.

When it comes to The Satanic Temple, there's always more and it's always worse.

pertaining to "lucien greaves" (doug mesner) of the satanic temple—clearly the name lucien is derived from lucifer but do we have any idea what the "greaves" means and where it came from?

Lucien Greaves (also known as Douglas Misicko or Doug Mesner) Douglas Alexander Misicko, born August 1975.

Misicko claims to have studied neuroscience with a specialty in false-memory syndrome. There is no such thing as false-memory syndrome. He harrasses survivors, and isn’t interested in the truth of SRA and TBMC.

The Danger Behind the “False Memory” Myth

I don’t know where his name came from.

T.W. Anti Semitism/white supremacist

While we’re on the topic of Lucien Greaves, I’ll post to his anti-semitic rant. He’s a white supremacist and The Satanic Temple should crumble into dust.

“Like, I think it’s okay to hate Jews if you hate them because they’re Jewish and they wear a stupid fuckin’ frisbie on their head [correct term: yarmulke or kippah] and walk around [and] think their God’s chosen people, but it’s not okay to hate somebody [‘born of Jewish blood’] just because their parents were stupid fuckin’ Jews and wore stupid frisbies on their head and thought the Jews were God’s chosen people […] Not everybody of Jewish blood is okay with me, it depends on if they follow the Jewish, uh… […] Satanic Jews are fine,” (Adam, “Doug Mesner [Lucien Greaves/Douglas Misicko] Satanic Temple Anti-Semitic Rant” (transcribed).” Source

Another LINK

Oz

[queersatanic]

The Satanic Temple's co-owner "Lucien Greaves" makes his case for fascism

Via The.Satanic.Wiki

On Sept. 11, 2003, future co-owner of The Satanic Temple Doug “Lucien Greaves” Misicko, his friend and collaborator Shane Bugbee, and Shane Bugbee’s wife Amy Stocky hosted a 24-hour Internet radio stream with guests and callers to mark the release of their new edition of the proto-fascist manifesto Might Is Right. The following year, Doug Misicko continued to appear on Internet radio streams with Shane and Amy. “The ABCs of the Alphabet” was one such program. This is an excerpt from one of those recordings.

CW: anti-Black racism, n-word slur, white nationalist symbolism, fascism

Full transcript:

12:01 Doug Misicko

Well, I gotta tell you, the f-word still has 'em all beat. (Shane Bugbee: What?) F-word still has 'em all beat internationally. I go to other countries, I still see "fuck" on the wall. I never see "[n-slur]" written on a wall.

12:13 Shane Bugbee

Interesting.

12:14 Doug Misicko

When I was in Italy, I didn’t see "[n-slur]" anywhere.

12:17 Shane Bugbee

But you went to the fascist leader’s house. (Doug Misicko: Actually, I was in a fascist-) The guy who started the fascist-

12:21 Doug Misicko

I was in a fascist neighborhood, right outside the Vatican, and it was a real nice, clean area, but you would see swastikas spraypainted. You know, like the crosshairs. I don’t know what you call that, you know, but it was a fascist symbol. A circle with just the crosshairs in it. With… little fascist logos or anything else. It was a clean area, nice area. If you went to the shitty side of town on the wrong side of the tracks in Rome, saw little hammers and sickles painted on the walls and shit like that. That was the difference.

12:54 Amy Bugbee

Wow, that’s crazy.

12:56 Doug Misicko

Well, I think it says a lot, and I think it stands to reason...

13:01 Amy Bugbee

And you bought that T-shirt. What did your T-shirt say?

13:04 Doug Misicko

Uh, in Italian it says “you’re with us, or you’re against us.” And it was- it’s a- It’s a fascist shirt. It was a fascist logo on it. I actually got it at a little fascist kiosk outside of Gabriele D’Annunzio’s palace.

13:19 Shane Bugbee

And who is that again?

13:21 Doug Misicko

He was a- y’know- he was like the first fascist. He was the godfather of fascism. Italian World War One hero that occupied the promised territories, after the First World War. With the Blackshirts. One of those- One of those hidden heroes. People should look him up. Look him up on the internet... Good deal.

[queersatanic]

After looking at all the evidence and considering things , i decided to forgo becoming an official member of The Satanic Temple, but i still closely relate to and appreciate their values and tenets. In your opinion, is it morally sound for me to use these tenets as a guiding tool in my life and also consume media from people supporting them (buying books for information, watching videos, etc.)? I'm not considering myself a member, but i am heavily influenced.

Short answer: No, you should not.

The Seven Tenets are the intellectual property of a shit organization owned by shit people who do shit things, and you should not support them.

If you are drawn to the idea of specifically Satanic moral guidance, give the Global Order of Satan's six pillars a gander.

Long answer going into more about the intellectual property stuff below.

First of all, the Seven Tenets aren’t really anything special.

You can see in their history how the different things The Satanic Temple has been has shaped what now are the “Seven Fundamental Tenets”, and like lots of things, the fact that Cevin Soling and Doug Misicko control what TST is and ever will be is a fatal flaw that can’t be got around.

This latest version of the tenets aren’t necessarily bad, and if they weren’t proprietary intellectual property of two specific men, you would want to have various local chapters/congregations come together to revise them collectively every so often to—by consensus—create principles that spoke to the people actually involved and doing the work.

In another world, in a better version of TST that recognized it had become more than a prank documentary and stumbled into a genuine religious movement, and rather than trying to enclose as much of the commons as possible and profit as much as possible, the founders could actually have stepped aside and created a federation more like the Quakers/Society of Friends to grow beyond their control.

But we live in this world instead.

The Seven Tenets of The Satanic Temple.

Type of Work: Text

Registration Number / Date: TXu002170560 / 2019-10-24

Application Title: The Seven Tenets of The Satanic Temple.

Title: The Seven Tenets of The Satanic Temple.

Description: Electronic file (eService)

Copyright Claimant: The Satanic Temple. Address: 64 Bridge Street, Salem, MA, 01970, United States.

Date of Creation: 2013

Authorship on Application: The Satanic Temple, employer for hire; Domicile: United States; Citizenship: United States. Authorship: text. Rights and Permissions: The Satanic Temple, 64 Bridge Street, SALEM, MA, 01970, United States

Copyright Note: C.O. correspondence.

Names: The Satanic Temple

Now, it’s not clear whether they mean the for-profit corporation or the tax-exempt church here.

It's probably the for-profit because most TST stuff is registered under United Federation of Churches LLC dba “ ‘The Satanic Temple’ ”.

However, the above entry is registered only as “The Satanic Temple”, full stop, which was also the previous name of the church before they renamed it “The Satanic Temple, Inc.” and still appears on lots of documents that way.

Along with the use of pseudonyms on official documents and other instances of perjury, it ought to be a red flag to supporters of TST about the two owners and their business practices but so far largely hasn’t been.

"Oh, all religions do this."

We can assure you they do not, and it's not just some box they needed to check. Per Joseph Rose of the Hail Satan Podcast, The Satanic Temple threatened to sue him over him selling something with the Seven Tenets on them. Forget which episode.

But imagine the Catholic Church suing someone over selling a pamphlet with the Nicene Creed or Ten Commandments. It's ludicrous, but TST is, among other things, a for-profit corporation and its owners want their money.

[queersatanic]

Lucien Greaves on "N-words"

Via The.Satanic.Wiki

On Sept. 11, 2003, future co-owner of The Satanic Temple Doug “Lucien Greaves” Misicko, his friend and collaborator Shane Bugbee, and Shane Bugbee’s wife Amy Stocky hosted a 24-hour Internet radio stream with guests and callers to mark the release of their new edition of the proto-fascist manifesto Might Is Right. The following year, Doug Misicko continued to appear on Internet radio streams with Shane and Amy. “The ABCs of the Alphabet” was one such program. This is an excerpt from one of those recordings.

CW: anti-Black racism, n-word slur, lynching reference

Full transcript:

08:36 Shane Bugbee What are your N words, Doug?

08:40 Doug Misicko I have neighbors, Nazi…

08:43 Shane Bugbee Did you say neighbors?

08:44 Doug Misicko Yeah.

08:45 Shane Bugbee Is that the other N word? (Amy Bugbee: *laughing*)

08:48 Doug Misicko Other N word? You mean be-

08:50 Shane Bugbee That’s the other N word. Like "nigger". And then you go, "nigger", and the other N word is neighbors. They’re a nigger.

08:55 Doug MisickoWhy "nigger"! I didn’t think of that.

08:56 Shane Bugbee Amy’s uh, father gave us that one.

08:58 Amy Bugbee That’s what my dad says.

09:00 Doug Misicko What? He says "neighbors" is the other N word?

09:01 Amy Bugbee He says that "neighbors" is the other N word, yeah.

09:03 Doug Misicko  Oh, Right. Well... then what- what do you do if your neighbor’s a nigger?

09:11 Shane Bugbee Fuckin' hang him high. (Amy Bugbee: Sell your house.) Hang him high, OK?

09:14 Doug Misicko *laughs audibly into the mic* I also had news, nurses, and noise...

[queersatanic]

The problem is that The Satanic Temple and the Christian nationalists are actually on the same side.

This is not just because Doug “Lucien Greaves” Misicko and Cevin “Malcolm Jarry” Soling are fundamentally reactionary Gen X edgelords whose politics never go further left than right-wing libertarianism.

Lucien Greaves probably does legitimately hate Christian conservatives, but he hated them when he was in his white nationalist-adjacent and openly pro-eugenics period, too. Meanwhile, Cevin Soling gets along with them quite well for other purposes like opposing public schools and decrying “politically correct” college campus culture.

The reason TST and the Christian nationalists are on the same side is that both of them materially benefit from pointing to the other as “the enemy”.

It gets both parties more attention, it gets them a higher profile, and it gets them more money as folk primarily motivated by anti-partisanship reflexively support something opposed by the groups that those folk hate. “This’ll really piss off my conservative uncle/liberal niece.”

We wrote this about a different nativity display that was getting attention a couple of years ago, this one in Illinois. It’s still largely relevant.

This is certainly not the worst thing that The Satanic Temple does. Yes, it is fun to tweak the Christians a little bit.

But it’s important to realize that the Catholics and Republican politicians are benefitting from this, too. Maybe even more than TST given the way the conservative movement functions. The right-wing grifters are telling their audience that Satanists and Democrats are teaming up to indoctrinate your children, destroy your religion, and murder your family, and that’s why you should vote for them or should support your local church in these end times or should stock up on the bunker supplies their website sells.

That is mainstream conservatism these days. Your neighbor is not reading George Will books and articles; he’s listening to Dan Bongino for hours every day and being primed for stochastic terrorism.

Just as importantly, it’s the negative space in these stories. What’s not being covered so that all of them, left-right-and-center, can lean into their conflict narratives?

Anyway, yes, it seems like it’s fun and a good thing to watch The Satanic Temple piss off people you hate.

But imagine instead it were Scientology doing this. Would you still root for them just because Republicans were getting mad?

And if media only ever treated Scientologists like merry pranksters, never getting into the front companies, treatment of former members, or histories of the literal owners of a corporate religion, would that coverage actually be informing people of what’s going on or doing the exact opposite?

Obviously the Satanic Temple is pretty lame if you take it seriously as a religious organization, but in terms of their actual motivating purpose- annoying Christians by placing Satanic symbolism in all of the government venues where Christian symbolism is present- they’re pretty great. World’s most consistently successful trolling campaign. A failed Republican congressional candidate recently got arrested in Iowa for vandalizing a statue of Baphomet in the Iowa capitol building, and now there’s tons of conservatives raising money for him and calling for blasphemy laws. Unlike members of the Satanic Temple all of these guys actually think that Satan is real, and thus that a statue can function as a form of spiritual warfare which demands retaliation. But the Temple only erects symbols like this to draw attention to the direct conflict between Christian dominionism and the US Constitution, and their targets fall for it every time

[queersatanic]

Satanic Temple co-founder "Lucien Greaves" talks about high school bullying as Nazi national anthem plays

Via The.Satanic.Wiki

On Sept. 11, 2003, future co-owner of The Satanic Temple Doug “Lucien Greaves” Misicko, his friend and collaborator Shane Bugbee, and Shane Bugbee’s wife Amy Stocky hosted a 24-hour Internet radio stream with guests and callers to mark the release of their new edition of the proto-fascist manifesto Might Is Right. The following year, Doug Misicko continued to appear on Internet radio streams with Shane and Amy. “The ABCs of the Alphabet” was one such program. This is an excerpt from one of those recordings.

CW: n-word slur, fascism, arson, bullying, fatphobia, ableism

Full transcript:

24:47 Doug Misicko 

I once lit a pep assembly on fire, and I did not get expelled for it. All those people! I used to get in trouble for most everything I did, and I thought it wasn't fair. And then I was sitting at this boring pep rally because they caught me trying to leave. And there's a big paper banner, and I just lit it on fire. The thing went up. [German marching music starts playing] And I thought, "Oh shit, it's all over." But they put it out and they never figured it out. And apparently nobody saw me do it. (Amy Bugbee: Wow, you never got caught?) It was the most amazing thing I never got caught for... (Shane Bugbee: I love it.) But speaking about whacking you on the head with a big book or whatever. There was a- in my high school...

25:27 Shane Bugbee 

Doug, you don't mind I'm playing "Hitler Youth" songs underneath you, do you? (Doug Misicko: No, it's fine.) It's a good march there. We got four minutes.

25:34 Doug Misicko 

Maybe I can tell a story then. (Shane Bugbee: Marching, Doug, like this. [goose-stepping noises]) In high school I used to have a swim class first hour. Yeah? And this was when I was like, yeah-

25:42 Shane Bugbee 

He's like saying that because I get high. And then I, in high school. I always, if we had if you had swim class first period, that means you could roast bowls — yes, I'm stuck in the Eighties — all day. And you could just say, "I had a swimming class first period." Ha-ha, ha-ha.

25:58 Doug Misicko 

And chlorine made you bloodshot, right? (Shane Bugbee: Yeah.) But anyways- I didn't do that. But, we had this stupid teacher in the class who would sit in his office, and then we're all supposed to not get in the pool. "Don't get in the pool until he comes out and takes attendance," which was us lining up and calling off a number. Every fucking morning we get there. And there's this fat kid, Jeremy something.

26:19 Shane Bugbee 

Hey. That's like saying "[n-slur]" in front of a Black guy. I'm fat. You can use, the "rotund".

26:25 Doug Misicko 

Right- (laughing) Pleasant- pleasantly plump lad. Every morning. Every morning, the dumb shit wouldn't figure it out. This kid would walk out, we throw him in the pool. He'd splash around screaming yelling and the teacher would come out and yell at him every time he said (shouting) "JEREMY! GET OUT OF THERE!" (laughter) But it happened Every. Single. Morning. They were both so stupid. (shouting) "JEREMY! GET OUT OF THERE!" (laughter) ...High school was all provoking people and getting in fights.

26:57 Shane Bugbee 

High School was all about gettin' high.

26:59 Amy Bugbee 

Yeah, high school was all about getting high, and not going.

[queersatanic]

TST co-owner tells story of "prank call" about a smelly gay Hindu organ harvester dating his OfficeMax manager

Via The.Satanic.Wiki

On Sept. 11, 2003, future co-owner of The Satanic Temple Doug “Lucien Greaves” Misicko, his friend and collaborator Shane Bugbee, and Shane Bugbee’s wife Amy Stocky hosted a 24-hour Internet radio stream with guests and callers to mark the release of their new edition of the proto-fascist manifesto Might Is Right. The following year, Doug Misicko continued to appear on Internet radio streams with Shane and Amy. “The ABCs of the Alphabet” was one such program. This is an excerpt from one of those recordings.

CW: anti-South Asian racism, homophobia

Full transcript:

02:46 Doug Misicko

O-okay. Well, I have an organ theft story from OfficeMax (Amy Bugbee: Excellent.) Because I used to work at OfficeMax, and it suddenly struck me that every day I had been going into the break room and ignoring the fact that they had an anonymous tip line there that I could, presumably, call at anytime to give people "snitch tips". You know, if I needed to report my management for theft, or whatever else, or I was afraid to go to anybody else, I could call this number. So at one point, I decided to exploit this about daily. So one of the more "classic calls" I made to the OfficeMax tip line- snitch line, whatever you call it. So I called them and I reported that our store manager was gay, and that his friend had been proposing- propositioning people in the men's room, and it made me afraid to go in there and take a shit. I told them I had an eight hour shift, and I was afraid to go in there. Take a piss.

03:44 Shane Bugbee

Now, was this true?

03:46 Doug Misicko

No, it wasn't! Not at all.

[Interruption by train ommitted]

04:26 Doug Misicko

Oh... No, so he says, "Has his friend over proposition you for sex in the bathroom?" And I said "No." And he said "Has he proposition anybody, you know, for sex?" And I said, "Dude, what is your fixation with gay sex?" And he said, "Hey, you- you called and I thought you were saying that this guy's propositioning people for sex and bathroom." I said, "I never said that. I said he's propositioning people in the bathroom that he's gay. That doesn't mean wants to have sex with every guy." And he's like, "Oh okay, I don't get it then." And I said, "he's asking people for their organs. He just wants the kidneys." And he said, you know "What do you mean?" I said, "He's this little Hindu fucker. He's this greasy, smelly, little hairy Hindu guy. And anytime somebody comes in the bathroom, he asked if he can take their kidneys for, uh, people overseas." And this guy was intrigued. These people, they were too stupid to hang up on me. So he said, "Why is he in the restroom asking people for their kidneys?" And I say, "Well, because he's got his whole office set up there. He's got wheels in a little table. He's got rusty tools and everything else. I'm just afraid that if I go in there at any point drop my pants the lights are going to be out and I'll be anesthesia-ized and I walkway minus a kidney." And this guy, he assigned me a case number and everything- I had like an anonymous number. You didn't have to tell them who you were, they assigned you a number. I used to call this crap every day was stories as outrageous as that. And what was the hard- the hard part for me was that I knew that they had to investigate him each time. And that somewhere somebody was getting these faxes. And they probably could tell it was me. But they couldn't do anything about it. And I was never able to see that end result. You know, I was never able to get the satisfaction of saying, "Oh, that son of a bitch did it again. It's not fucking funny anymore." Anyways, that's my whole story.

06:17 Amy Bugbee

Do you think they did something about it? Or do you think that the store was so lackadaisical, they didn't care?

06:23 Doug Misicko

I don't know. I actually called the FBI and one of my managers once for opening a program there, copying it and resealing it, and the FBI didn't do a whole lot in that case, but I can only... You know, I can only hope it fuck with somebody in the bureaucracy who had to go through the paperwork and was bitter about it. Because that's what they get for having a stupid as snitch line setup anyway.

06:48 Shane Bugbee

Yeah, I gotta say, Doug, you are one fucking havoc-wreaking motherfucker.

06:53 Doug Misicko

Gotta have fun.

06:55 Shane Bugbee

Yeah, I love it. I'm impressed. Oh, Doug!