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thoughtfulfoxllama · 4 months ago

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Names of Gods

In the Temple Liturgy, we see the Creation of the Earth by Three Deities: Elohim, Jehovah, and Michael. The Temple Endowment is one of the most sacred, symbolic experiences in the spiritual life of Latter-day Saints, but it is ill understood by many (because of its highly symbolic nature)

One of the issues of debate however, is the identities of the beings discussed in the Temple Liturgy. Usage of the names has been hotly debated since the introduction of the Nauvoo Endowment (the Endowment Proper, to separate from the Kirkland Endowment, known as the Initiatory in the Modern Church)

In this essay, I will explain the various views held throughout Church History. Although the Culterite Branche also practices the Nauvoo Endowment, we have no information on their ritual, so we will focus solely on the Brighamite Branches

Points of View discussed

MC- Modern Church. This holds that Elohim in God the Father (or our Heavenly Parents), Jehovah is the Premortal Christ, and Michael is Adam

BY- Brigham is infamous for his "Adam-God Doctrine," where Adam is God the Father, Jehovah is his God, and Elohim is Jehovah's God. He did also advance other views however (such as Elohim being the Father, Jehovah being the Premortal Christ, and Michael being the Holy Ghost)

Sym- Symbolic Interpretation. This was developed by Max Skousen in his infamous "Temple Book," and was further added on by later individuals. It holds that Elohim is our Divine Intelligence (which is a part of God), Jehovah is our Self, and Michael is our Physical Body. He believed that the Endowment was teaching us that we need to have everything in it's proper place. The Self listens to the Divine, and the Self has control over the Body. The Body don't control the Self, and the Self doesn't control the Divine

HS- I call this the "Holy Spirit Theory." It is based off of some interesting wording in the 5th Lecture on Faith. It says that the Holy Spirit is the shared mind of God the Father & Christ. However, in D&C 130, it says the "Holy Ghost [...] is a personage of Spirit. This believes that all gods have a shared mind, known as the Holy Spirit (BH Roberts also connects this shared mind to the Light of Christ). Elohim is the Light of Christ, Jehovah is the entire Godhead, and Michael is all of humanity

T- Title Theory. This is the theory that the Names of God are not names at all, but merely titles. For example, if God has "names" like, "Endless," "Eternal" (Meos in Adamic), and "Man of Holiness" ("Ahman" in Adamic), how can we trust any of his names. While often used to try to justify Adam-God, it is it's own separate thing

CRT- "Creator, Redeemed, Testator." Joseph Smith said that before Creation, Covenant was made between 3 Archetypical Beings, the Creator, the Redeemer, and the Testator. The idea is that each of the beings in the Temple is one of these beings

Elohim

In his Sermon in the Grove (Joseph's last sermon), he stated that Elohim was always plural. He then went on to give a radical retranslation of Genesis 1:1. Instead of "In the Beginning, God created the Heavens and the Earth," he said that it meant roughly "The Head organized the Gods, and all things" (my own translation, but faithful to Joseph's words). While the King Follet Discourse revealed man's potential, the Sermon in the Grove populated the Eternities with, in the words of Paul "gods many and lords many."

MC- The belief that Elohim is God the Father is unsustainable, given Joseph's statement that Elohim is always plural. This doesn't mean the Modern Church is wrong though, but rather that we don't look at Elohim with a full understanding of Godhood. Godhood is Couplehood (or Throuplehood, or Quadruplehood, and so on). So, Elohim may refer specifically, not to Heavenly Father, but Heavenly Parents. After all, Modern Prophets have stated that Heavenly Mother(s) are deeply involved in our lives. Why wouldn't HM be there, alongside HF. He wouldn't be God without her, so Elohim still fits

BY- Admittedly, Adam-God is a huge cluster-screw. We know nothing from Brigham about the identity of Elohim from his own words. We have Joseph F Smith quoting an earlier source saying the Creation Trinity were "Grandfather, Father, and Son." He did state Jehovah was Michael's father, so maybe this is where that came from. But this is only 1 of the many inconstancies with Adam-God. For his views on it being "Father, Son, Spirit," see the MC explaination

Sym- Skousen has some interesting ideas. The idea that Elohim is in essence the root of being is an intriguing idea, and it allows Elohim to be plural. If one wanted to go further, the Lecture also says the Father is a Personage of Spirit, while the Son is a personage of Tabernacle. This has been connected by the Fundamentalists as the Liquid in their Veins (Blood or... It's never explained, but Spirit is the best word they can come up with). However, the idea that God the Father is this Divine Intelligence doesn't line up with D&C 130 (which states the Father was a body of Flesh & Bone), or with the First Vision. Unless, Elohim is what we are all called when we're Exalted (which connects to the Degrees of Glory. Celestial listen to the Intelligence, Terrestrial listen to Themselves, Telestial listen to their Senses)

HS- The Light of Christ makes an odd amount of sense here actually. In the Liturgy, Elohim commands the Creation, while Jehovah & Michael are the primary actors. The Light of Christ gives us (among other things) our Conscience. When were about to do something bad, we can get this feeling that we shouldn't. Maybe the Light of Christ also inspires that feeling in the gods. As this light is "in all things," it knows the proper timing, the proper order, everything like that. It also makes sense in the order as a whole, because the Earth was created spiritually, then physically. Jehovah (the gods) tells Michael (the Spirits), what needs to happen, then Michael reports when it's done. Maybe Michael needed to do their part, so Jehovah could do theirs

T- In the Title Theory, Elohim (more accurately, El) is the "Reshit," the Head of the Gods, speaking for the entire Divine Council. El (with his authority as essentially an EQ President) commands Jehovah & Michael to create the Earth, and commands Michael to people it.

CRT- Elohim (El) is the Great Organizer. He organized the Gods, and Organized the Creation (although he didn't actually participate, he did organize the work that needed to be done)

Jehovah

The name with the most debate, even before we get the Restoration. Jehovah (originally YHVH, but I'll just use Jehovah) was originally seen as a Storm God & a War God. Even by the time we get to Lehi's Departure, Jehovah was not a sole divinity. He was connected most notably with Asherah (Goddess of War, the Seas, Trees, and Motherhood) & El (the Head of the Gods)

By the Second Temple Period, Jehovah was stripped of equals. It also became prohibited to speak his name in public. This means, with the fall of the Jerusalem Temple (one of, if not the only place the Name could be spoken), the pronunciation was lost

In the Restoration, the use of Jehovah became... Chaotic to say the least. Joseph Smith used Jehovah to mean the Father in D&C 109, while in 110, Christ speaks with "the sound of rushing great waters, even the voice of Jehovah" (D&C 110:3). Brigham used Divine Names interchangeably, even saying "Elohim-Jehovah" as one name on more than one occasion. This naturally causes so much debate that Wilford Woodruff has to tell people to stop fighting about it. But, it went on. Jesus & Jehovah continued to be separated individuals in the Endowment, Joseph F Smith said Jehovah was Heavenly Father, and eventually, James Talmage wrote that Christ was Jehovah (an idea first officially pushed in the 1916 talk "The Father & the Son," and reiterated in "The Living Christ," on January 1st, 2000)

MC- Jehovah is Jesus Christ. "Before Abraham was, I am." This is the phrase Talmage used to prove his point. He also pointed out that Christ said in the Book of Mormon it was him who gave the Law on Sinai, and Jehovah was the Lawgiver

BY- Jehovah is God's God. He was well aquatinted with Adam's Children (possibly even being the god they worshipped, instead of Adam. This connects to the teachings of Fred Collier, who believed that Adam had 72 Sons, who were the gods of the 72 Nations). That's all Brigham had to say, aside from throwing out names like "Elohim-Jehovah" when referring to Michael (which makes no sense Brigham! No wonder people struggled to believe Adam-God, because it makes no sense, and you constantly contradict yourself!!!)

Sym- Jehovah is who we are, our Ego. It is meant as a go-between for the Divine Intelligence, and the Physical Body. This is similar to Christ, who came to mediate between Human & Divine

HS- This is based on the letters of the Name. According to David Ferriman (founder of the Fellowship of Christ, which is a Non-denominational Mormon Church), the Yod & the First Hei are our Heavenly Parents, while the Vav & the Second Hei are Christ & the Holy Ghost. While Ferriman (most likely, based on his other writings) doesn't believe in the Holy Spirit Theory, this interpretation of the name Jehovah is common for people who do

T- Jehovah is the God of a World. Before the Resurrection, Heavenly Father was Jehovah. When Christ said he gave the Law on Sinai, he did, and he was speaking on behalf of his Father. However, after the Resurrection, Christ became Jehovah, the God over this World

CRT- Jehovah is Christ. I've already said that above

Michael

In the Endowment Liturgy, Michael is Adam. There are literally millennia of people associating Adam with all of Mankind. This is especially meaningful when we are told to associate ourselves with Adam in the Temple

MC- There's not much to say. Adam is the First Man (possibly the Physical Son of Heavenly Parents, born Immortal, and needing to eat the fruit to become Mortal). He was the Archangel Michael (the only Archangel?), forgot that when he was created, and became an Archangel after death. He may have visited Christ during the Suffering in Gethsemane. Maybe he's resurrected, maybe not

BY- This one, more than any others, provides a huge discrepancy between the two views extended by Brigham (in the same flipping sermon!!!). Either Michael is "Our Father & Our God" or he his the Holy Ghost

There is a possibility he is both, as he is the Father of Humanity, our God (the Holy Ghost is a God), and "the Only God with whom we have to do" (because how many of us have seen Christ or the Father. Seriously, saying that part is even more confusing, considering we have 3 gods already!). This is not what Brigham had in mind however

If Michael is God, he is the Father of our Spirits (through Sexual Union), and then was sent to Earth by the Council, given Amnesia, tricked by Lucifer (who may also have a body, based on some interpretations of the Theory I've heard), and became the Father of Humanity. Eve is therefore Heavenly Mother (it appears we all share 1 Heavenly Mother. Each Wife gets a Planet, like they'd get their own house in Mortality)

Sym- Adam is the "Natural Man." Our physical desires, our fears and anger, all those things we associate as bad. However, we are not told to kill our passions, but to bridle them. No emotion is bad, but it needs to be under control (for example, libedo connects spouses, produces children, and gives pleasure. But, we are told to express it within strict bounds (marriage))

HS- Adam means "Man" (as in Mankind). We are told to associate ourselves with Adam in the Temple

T- Michael is the title of one who is called to begin life on a world. Likewise, Chavah (Eve) is the Name-Title of his help-meet (as Chavah means "Breath Giver," breath being representative of Life & the Spirit)

CRT- Michael is the Testator. However, we need to remember that we are told to associate ourselves with Adam in the Temple. Our first covenant (Baptism) include "standing as a witness of God." We are all Testators, we are all Michael

What do I think?

I think I need a break. The Hot Takes take a lot out of me, emotionally. Not just because I'm composing basically a full length essay, then vastly cutting it down (only keeping in about 1/50th of the Adam-God rants) in a couple hours, but because I'm worried about going too far

So, next week, it'll be something way more chill. Specifically, the Sabbath

#mormon #lds #tumblrstake #queerstake #lds church #ldschurch #mormon hot take

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apenitentialprayer · 4 months ago

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Huh, apparently at least some Mormons believed that Adam was polygynous, and that Lilith may have been the name of the second wife. Although not considered canonical, the Journal of Discourses preserves sermons from members of the early Latter-Day Saints movement, including an 1885 "discourse" by Henry William Naisbitt. In the relevant paragraph:

The Scriptures give an account simply of the woman Eve; declaring that this name was given to her by Adam, because she was "the mother of all living," but outside of biblical record there has been handed down from time immemorial the idea that Adam had two wives; the narrators go so far, or rather so near perfecting the tradition, so as to give their names, Lilith being said to be the name of one as Eve was the name of the other, and while it might be difficult to harmonize all the Rabbinical and Talmudic versions of this matter, it is said that Joseph Smith the Prophet taught that Adam had two wives. Without, however, assuming or basing anything on this theory, or upon this tradition —which may be mythical in its character— it is nevertheless very evident that marriage was ordained of God; and when we take into our hands the record of the Holy Scriptures that have been handed down to us by our fathers, that have been cherished in parts by the ancient people of God, and in latter times consolidated […] we find throughout the pages thereof that marriage everywhere for four thousand years, at all events, was recognized as of divine origin.

This is very fascinating for many reasons. First, I didn't realize it may have been that Joseph Smith believed Adam had multiple wives, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised by that. I am surprised by the level of familiarity this Mormon guy had with Jewish texts, though. Maybe I shouldn't be?

#Mormon #Adam and Eve #Lilith #Book of Discourses #Joseph Smith

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fusion360 · 1 year ago

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Unpacking the Myth vs. Reality of Joseph Smith's Polygamy

The life of Joseph Smith, the founder of the Latter-day Saint movement, is a common topic of intrigue, largely due to his practice of polygamy. This aspect of Smith's life has sparked extensive debate, with opinions ranging from defending it as a misunderstood practice to condemning it as a form of abuse. In this article, we delve into the complex narrative of Joseph Smith polygamy, examining the myth versus reality and shedding light on the historical context that surrounds it.

Understanding Polygamy in the Context of the Time

Joseph Smith's practice of polygamy emerged during a period of social and religious upheaval in the early 19th century. The phenomenon was not unique to Smith or his movement, as multiple religious groups experimented with the concept during this era. Sources from the time, such as early church records and personal journals, provide insights into the dynamic nature of relationships within the community.

According to scholars at the Joseph Smith Papers Project, Smith's involvement in polygamy cannot be denied. Letters and accounts from individuals involved in his inner circle corroborate the existence of these relationships.

The Myth of Monogamy vs. the Reality of Polygamy

One prevailing myth surrounding Joseph Smith's polygamy is the notion that he maintained a strictly monogamous relationship with his wife Emma. However, historical evidence reveals a more complex picture. Smith's relationships with multiple women were recorded in documents, letters, and diaries of the time. Notably, the practice of polygamy was kept relatively secret due to societal norms and legal restrictions.

The LDS Church's resources acknowledge Smith's practice of polygamy. The accounts of his interactions with various women, often referred to as "plural marriages," are documented in their historical records.

Conflicting Perspectives: Legitimacy vs. Abuse

Opinions on Joseph Smith polygamy are sharply divided. Proponents argue that the practice was part of the religious teachings of the time, highlighting Smith's purported role as a prophet. They contend that the relationships were consensual and driven by a sincere belief in the practice's spiritual significance.

Critics, on the other hand, view the practice as an abuse of power and an exploitation of vulnerable women within the community. They point to the significant age differences between Smith and some of his wives as evidence of potential coercion and manipulation.

Navigating the Absence of Definitive Evidence

The lack of unequivocal evidence, combined with the secretive nature of polygamous relationships during Smith's time, contributes to the ongoing uncertainty surrounding his practice of polygamy. This has fueled both speculation and skepticism, as historians and researchers grapple with the challenge of interpreting fragmentary historical records.

The PBS documentary "The Mormons" discusses Joseph Smith's polygamy in detail. It provides insights into the historical context and the challenges faced by historians in piecing together a comprehensive narrative of Smith's life and relationships.

Conclusion: A Complex Legacy

In the ever-evolving discourse around Joseph Smith polygamy, it's evident that a singular truth remains elusive. The myth of a monogamous founder contrasts starkly with the reality of his involvement in polygamous relationships. As opinions diverge on the legitimacy and ethics of these relationships, it's essential to approach the topic with an open mind, acknowledging the historical nuances and complexities that surround it.

While some may argue that Joseph Smith's practice of polygamy was a deeply ingrained aspect of his religious teachings, others view it as a practice that raises troubling ethical questions. Ultimately, the debate surrounding Joseph Smith's wives and his role in polygamy is a reminder of the challenges inherent in interpreting history and understanding the motivations of historical figures within the context of their times.

#joseph smith polygamy

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alliluyevas · 3 years ago

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mormon history rant posting because I have first period free today: one thing that has been very interesting to me and which I’d love to find out more about is the relationships in adult life between the various Smith cousins—that is, the children of Joseph and his brothers Hyrum, Samuel, and Don Carlos (side note: can never not snicker at that name. these British Americans from Vermont named their son Don Carlos). They all spent their early childhoods together in various Mormon enclaves, all four of their fathers died when they were still kids, and then they kind of ended up scattered to the winds and on various different ideological and theological sides of Mormonism.

Hyrum and Samuel’s children ended up in Utah with the majority of the church. Hyrum’s son Joseph F. married Samuel’s daughter Levira when they were nineteen and sixteen respectively. They did not have children and had a contentious divorce eight years later shortly after he took a second wife, whereupon she moved to California and he basically pretended she’d never existed, started calling the new wife his first wife, had a total of 48 kids with five wives, and eventually became prophet-president of the LDS branch of the church.

Meanwhile, back in the Midwest, Joseph’s children became members of the Reorganized Church of Latter-Day Saints, an anti-polygamy opposition sect. Joseph III, Joseph’s eldest son and the prophet-president of RLDS, has a long running feud with his cousin Joseph F. over polygamy and in particular his father’s practice of it (Joseph III claims that his father was never a polygamist; Joseph F. gathers and publicizes testimony from his plural wives to prove the point). J3 also at one point does have dinner with JF at his house while visiting SLC, and writes about how his cousin is rubbing polygamy in his face and it grosses him out. He also corresponds with JF’s ex-wife/their mutual cousin Levira after the divorce and they shit talk him for being a polygamist.

Weirdly, he also carries on a long-term very amicable correspondence with Joseph F’s older brother John, who was also a polygamist but seems to have been a reluctant one, with only one plural wife with whom he only had one child. It’s unclear to me whether Joseph III actually knew John was a polygamist, because that seems like something you could conceal over a long distance correspondence if you wanted to, but also I could see potentially J3 choosing to ignore it for the sake of their relationship as long as it wasn’t rubbed in his face. I’m guessing he probably wasn’t aware, though.

Then, Don Carlos’s daughter Josephine moved to California with her mom and siblings and they all left Mormonism. She legally changed her name from Josephine Smith to Ina Coolbrith (her nickname + mom’s maiden name) and became a poet. In another somewhat unexpected correspondence, she had a pretty amicable relationship with Joseph F. at least as young adults and they corresponded about a variety of things including polygamy (Ina was strongly against it, JF obviously argued in favor, but their relationship seemed to have survived the disagreement).

Anyway, I think all these relationships and conflicts are really interesting—and the fact that some relationships survived the polygamy discourse and some very much didn’t.

#Hope y’all can follow this bc everyone is named Joseph or Josephine #Mormonposting tag

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weirdletter · 4 years ago

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The Penguin Book of Exorcisms, edited by Joseph P. Laycock, Penguin Classics, 2020. Cover image by CSA Image/Getty Image, info: penguinrandomhouse.com.

Haunting accounts of real-life exorcisms through the centuries and around the world, from ancient Egypt and the biblical Middle East to colonial America and twentieth-century South Africa. Levitation. Feats of superhuman strength. Speaking in tongues. A hateful, glowing stare. The signs of spirit possession have been documented for thousands of years and across religions and cultures, even into our time: In 2019 the Vatican convened 250 priests from 50 countries for a weeklong seminar on exorcism. The Penguin Book of Exorcisms brings together the most astonishing accounts: Saint Anthony set upon by demons in the form of a lion, a bull, and a panther, who are no match for his devotion and prayer; the Prophet Muhammad casting an enemy of God out of a young boy; fox spirits in medieval China and Japan; a headless bear assaulting a woman in sixteenth-century England; the possession in the French town of Loudun of an entire convent of Ursuline nuns; a Zulu woman who floated to a height of five feet almost daily; a previously unpublished account of an exorcism in Earling, Iowa, in 1928–an important inspiration for the movie The Exorcist; poltergeist activity at a home in Maryland in 1949–the basis for William Peter Blatty’s novel The Exorcist; a Filipina girl “bitten by devils”; and a rare example of a priest’s letter requesting permission of a bishop to perform an exorcism–after witnessing a boy walk backward up a wall. Fifty-seven percent of Americans profess to believe in demonic possession; after reading this book, you may too.

Contents: Introduction by Joseph P. Laycock Suggestions for Further Reading Acknowledgments THE ANCIENT NEAR EAST An Exorcism from the Library of Ashurbanipal, Seventh Century BCE The Bentresh Stela, Fourth Century BCE THE GRECO-ROMAN WORLD Hippocrates, “On the Sacred Disease,” 400 BCE Lucian of Samosata, The Syrian Exorcist, 150 CE Tertullian, The Nature of Demons, 197 CE Philostratus, The Life of Apollonius of Tyana, 210 CE Athanasius, The Life of Saint Anthony, 370 CE MEDIEVAL EUROPE Cynewulf, “Juliana,” 970–990 Thomas Aquinas, The Powers of Angels and Demons, 1274 EARLY MODERN EUROPE AND AMERICA Desiderius Erasmus, “The Exorcism or Apparition,” 1519 A Possessed Woman Attacked by a Headless Bear, 1584 “A True Discourse Upon the Matter of Marthe Brossier,” 1599 Des Niau, The History of the Devils of Loudun, 1634 Samuel Willard, “A briefe account of a strange & unusuall Providence of God befallen to Elizabeth Knap of Groton,” 1673 The Diary of Joseph Pitkin, 1741 Fray Juan José Toledo, An Exorcism in the New Mexico Colony, 1764 George Lukins, the Yatton Demoniac, 1788 JEWISH TRADITIONS OF EXORCISM Flavius Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews, 94 CE The Spirit in the Widow of Safed, 1571 Exorcisms of the Baal Shem Tov, 1814 THE ISLAMIC TRADITION Ahmad b. Hanbal, “The Prophet Muhammad Casts an Enemy of God Out of a Young Boy: A Tradition from Ahmad B. Hanbal’s Musnad,” 855 CE The Trial of Husain Suliman Karrar, 1920 SOUTH AND EAST ASIA A Hymn to Drive Away Gandharvas and Apsaras, Eleventh to Thirteenth Century BCE Chang Tu, “Exorcising Fox-Spirits,” 853 CE A Fox Tale from the Konjaku Monogatrishū, Eighth to Twelfth Centuries CE Harriet M. Browne’s Account of Kitsune-Tsuki, 1900 D.H. Gordon, D.S.O., “Some Notes on Possession by Bhūts in the Punjab,” 1912 Georges de Roerich, “The Ceremony of Breaking the Stone,” 1931 MODERN EXORCISMS An Exorcism Performed by Joseph Smith, 1830 W.S. Lach-Szyrma, Exorcizing a Rusalka, 1881 Mariannhill Mission Society, An Exorcism of a Zulu Woman, 1906 F.J. Bunse, S.J., The Earling Possession Case, 1934 “Report of a Poltergeist,” 1949 Lester Sumrall, The True Story of Clarita Villanueva, 1955 Alfred Métraux, A Vodou Exorcism in Haiti, 1959 E. Mansell Pattison, An Exorcism on a Yakama Reservation, 1977 Michael L. Maginot, “Report Seeking Permission of Bishop for Exorcism,” 2012 Notes Index

#book #penguin classics #essay #weird essay #book of exorcisms #exorcisms #demonology

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calvinistwoman · 4 years ago

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PREFACE: Unless otherwise stated, all quotes regarding LDS Doctrine will be taken from the following: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics

So in response to a post i saw regarding the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints (aka: the Mormon Church), I wanted to make a super quick post about the differences between LDS doctrine and Biblical doctrine. Obviously, I am a Christian and I disagree with a lot of LDS doctrine. I just wanted to outline some major differences since, as you can see in this post, Mormons often refer to themselves as Christians. “Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints unequivocally affirm themselves to be Christians.” (Under Topic: Are Mormons Christian?)

This is in no way meant to belittle anyone’s beliefs, and it’s my apologies if I misrepresent anyone.

(also I know this post talks a little about Jehovah’s Witnesses as well... but I really don’t know as much about them so I don’t feel qualified to speak on that.)

Firstly, I want to say that I do not believe Mormons are Christians. I will back up this statement in a moment. I don’t say it because I dislike Mormons or anything. I say it because when you look at the Biblical parameters for what a Christian is, it’s clear that Mormons do not meet the qualifications. While every single Mormon I've ever met has been extremely kind and obviously devoted to their beliefs, I can not count them as brothers and sisters in Christ. And here’s why...

We have different Scriptures. I am starting here because every disagreement stems from this point. The Christian view of scripture is that the Bible is the Word of God. It is complete and infallible. We stand on the authority of the Bible as being perfect and unchanging. This differs from the LDS view. Yes, the LDS church hold to the Bible as one of their scriptures, however they also add the Book of Mormon, The Doctrine and Covenants, The Pearl of Great Price, as well as the word of the prophet. All these constitute the words of God. “to claim that the Bible is the sole and final word of God—more specifically, the final written word of God—is to claim more for the Bible than it claims for itself.” (Under Topic: Are Mormons Christian?)

Second, we have different Gods. I know, you’re thinking... “What? No way. They seem so similar.” And they really do when you look at them broadly. Be both believe in God the father, His Son Jesus Christ and His redemptive plan, and the Holy Spirit who indwells us and helps us. So what’s the difference? There are actually a lot of differences. You know how a lot of atheists will say “Yeah Jesus was real, he was just a good teacher.” Well it’s sort of like that. We both believe in the same historical person, but that’s where it ends. It’s a bit like comparing the real Abraham Lincoln to Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter. They’re both talking about the same guy....sort of.

So how do we view the Godhead, and how are these views contradictory?

LDS - I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see. (King Follett Discourse)

Christian - Isaiah 43:10 I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

LDS - God and Jesus Christ are glorified, physical beings and that each member of the Godhead is a separate being.

Christian - God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost are one God in three persons. God is also a spirit, not a man. But for our sake, Christ took on flesh and bone to bare our sins.

(Under Topic: God the Father)

LDS - We are all literally children of God, spiritually begotten in the premortal life.

Christian - We are created beings, made by God for His glory.

LDS - His work and glory is “to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man”

Christian - God’s ultimate aim is to put all things under His subjection and to receive all the praise, honor, and glory due Him.

(Under Topic: Holy Ghost.)

LDS - Through His power, we are sanctified as we repent, receive the ordinances of baptism and confirmation, and remain true to our covenants

Christian - Sanctification is a work of the Spirit making us more like Christ.

LDS - All honest seekers of the truth can feel the influence of the Holy Ghost, leading them to Jesus Christ and His gospel.

Christian - The indwelling of the Spirit is a mark of a true believer. It happens as a result of the hearing of the gospel and a faith in Jesus Christ.

(Under Topic: Jesus Christ)

LDS - As Risen Lord, He visited among those He had loved in life. He also ministered among His ‘other sheep’ (John 10:16) in ancient America. In the modern world, He and His Father appeared to the boy Joseph Smith, ushering in the long-promised ‘dispensation of the fulness of times’ (Ephesians 1:10).

Christian - I mean we would just reject this entirely. We also understand the “other sheep” to mean gentiles, not ancient Americans.

Thirdly, we have a different view of the atonement. This makes sense as we have different views of God, and different sources for truth.

(Under Topic: Salvation)

To be cleansed from sin through the Savior’s Atonement, an individual must exercise faith in Jesus Christ, repent, be baptized, and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost (see Acts 2:37–38). Those who have been baptized and have received the Holy Ghost through the proper priesthood authority have been conditionally saved from sin. In this sense, salvation is conditional, depending on an individual’s continuing in faithfulness, or enduring to the end in keeping the commandments of God (see 2 Peter 2:20–22).

(Under Topic: Gospel)

The Prophet Joseph Smith said, “The first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost” (Articles of Faith 1:4).

The Savior has promised that if we endure to the end, faithfully living the gospel, He will hold us guiltless before the Father at the Final Judgment (see 3 Nephi 27:16).

2 Nephi 25:23 “For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.”

Articles of Faith 1:3 - We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.

As you can see, this is very different from the Biblical Gospel which is by grace, freely given to all who believe. It’s very man-centered and works-based. It relies on several conditions to get and then maintain salvation.

Fourthly, the LDS church and their scriptures have a different view of the fall.

“Adam blessed God and was filled, and began to prophesy concerning all the families of the earth, saying: Blessed be the name of God, for because of my transgression my eyes are opened, and in this life I shall have joy, and again in the flesh I shall see God.

“And Eve, his wife, heard all these things and was glad, saying: Were it not for our transgression we never should have had seed, and never should have known good and evil, and the joy of our redemption, and the eternal life which God giveth unto all the obedient” (Moses 5:10–11).

This almost makes it sound like the fall was a good thing. As though Adam and Eve were happy, and the sin was a blessing. But the Biblical reality is that the sin brought about pain and death. Yes, the fall is apart of God’s redemptive plan, but we should never view it as good. We should view it the way God did.

Gen. 2:16-19 To the woman he said,“I will make your pains in childbearing very severe; with painful labor you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you.” To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’ “Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat food from it all the days of your life. It will produce thorns and thistles for you, and you will eat the plants of the field. By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return.”

God did not view the fall lightly. He cursed mankind, and the world with us.

I could go on, but it’s clear that we hold very different views. To claim that both these views stem from the same religion seems illogical. They contradict each other constantly.

Again... as people, I have no issues with Mormons. They are genuinely some of the kindest people I have ever met. But it is a sad reality that they believe in a false God, a false Gospel, and that they ultimately have no hope in their religion. If you have any questions about anything I’ve said here, go ahead and send me a message.

#mormonism #christianity #theology #jesus christ #bible #book of mormon

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theliterateape · 4 years ago

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If Yogi Bear Were God, I’d Have This Thing Wrapped Up

by Don Hall

From a Letter from Pontus Pilate to Tiberius Caesar:

...from that moment I was convinced that the conquered had declared themselves the enemy of the conquerors; and I would warn the Romans to beware of the high Priests of this country. They would betray their own mother to gain office and a luxurious living. It seems to me that, of conquered cities, Jerusalem is the most difficult to govern. So turbulent are the people that I live in momentary dread of an insurrection.

At first I was apprehensive that his design was to stir up the people against the Romans, but my fears were soon dispelled. Jesus of Nazareth spoke rather as a friend of the Romans than of the Jews. One day in passing by the place of Siloe, where there was a great concourse of people, I observed in the midst of the group a young man who was leaning against a tree, calmly addressing the multitude. I was told it was Jesus. This I could easily have suspected, so great was the difference between him and those listening to him. His golden-colored hair and beard gave him the appearance of a celestial aspect. He appeared to be about thirty years old. Never have I seen a sweeter or more serene countenance. What a Contrast between him and his hearers, with their black beards and tawny completion!

I extended to him my protection, unknown perhaps to himself. He was at liberty to act, to speak, to assemble and address the people, and to choose disciples, unrestrained by any Praetorian mandate. Should it ever happen {May the gods avert the omen!} should it ever happen, I say that the religion of our forefathers will be supplanted by the religion of Jesus, it will be to this noble toleration that Rome shall owe her premature death, while I, miserable wretch, will have been the instrument of what the Jews call Providence, and we call destiny.

Pilate knew that he was witnessing a new religion forming when he saw Jesus speak. He could see the demise of Roman rule at the hands of this new prophet and gave him the freedom to speak publicly about it. People believe in things that inspire them or provide them with a road to dominance because religion is both a way to codify behavior for oneself and to then enforce that behavior from everyone else.

Back in college, I really wanted to date Diane. OK. That was coy. I wanted to jump her bones. There was chemistry but she was Mormon. Like, full-on Mormon. Her father was an elder at her church. She told me before we could date I had to talk to him first. He invited me to meet at the church.

“You want to see my daughter socially?”

“Well, yeah. Uhm. Yes, sir. I would.”

“We don’t allow dating outside of the church. Would you be interested in coming to some classes and workshops before I give permission?”

“I’m a college student. Classes and workshops are all I do right now, so sure.”

For six weeks I’d go to Mormon school. Diane would check in with me at lunch in the commons area to see how it was going. I sat through spiritual exercises, hour-long seminars on the history of the church, and workshops designed to indoctrinate me into this odd belief system. If something they told me was not unintelligible, it was vague. If neither unintelligible or vague, it was unverifiable.

Yet these decent people believed. They believed in the absurd story of Joseph Smith and his magic glasses and disappearing golden tablets. They believed that multiple marriages primed them to live as gods and goddesses in the afterlife (even though officially they denied this, the classes sure made polygamy seem like the path to follow). There was the whole thing about binding underwear.

“Well, Mr. Hall. You’ve passed your classes. Any thoughts about what you learned?”

I wanted to get into Diane’s pants but not enough to stop myself from being honest.

“Sir, no disrespect intended but I’d sooner believe that Yogi Bear was the Divine Creator before putting my faith in this nonsense.”

While leaving me with a six week case of blue balls the time was instructional although not in the manner expected. I wondered what was going through the minds of people who believed Smith when he told them his bullshit story? I’m certain some thought he was a loon, others thought he was maybe an idiot, but enough people believed that it started a new branch of Christianity. That’s big. A new religion in the midst of so many.

Like Scientology, the Branch Davidians, the Aetherius Society, the Gentle Wind Project, and the Reformed Druids of North America, it seems so many are looking for answers in cults so cults are born on the flimsiest of reasons with nonexistent means to verify their connection to truth.

Turns out it isn’t difficult to start a cult and gain followers.

Step 1: Choose a set of grievances and attribute them to an amorphous enemy.

In the odd quirk of being the only truly conscious animal on the planet, each one of us is the hero (or anti-hero) of our own private movie. Each of us, whether we choose to acknowledge it or not, believe that our struggle is the Greatest Struggle (often in spite of all evidence to the contrary). The Cult of Personality functions by breaking that quirk down, effectively convincing people that someone else is the real hero and themselves pawns to his or her victory over the Other. The Cult of Personal Anguish exploits this quirk, enforcing that each of us has Greater Pain than anyone else and by attacking the Other, we each receive our due.

So pick one. Pick some slight you feel personally. Anything that makes you feel all the bad feels. You know, because you are misunderstood and treated with less...whatever you think you deserve. Hell, pick a couple that seem related.

Some examples might include:

You feel objectified by _____. You feel unheard by _____. You feel left out by _____. You feel criticized and shamed by _____. Your choices in life have left you with LESS than _____. _____ are happier or more fulfilled than you

Step 2: Use language to pre-emptively invalidate all criticism or questioning.

This is key. The idea is to take an already agreed upon set of words that denote injustice or abuse and gradually expand the meaning until your specific anguish is cloaked in them. That way, when anyone questions your logical conclusions, you can throw out those words and phrases and shut down dissent.

If someone is critical of a war, they are automatically supporting terrorists. If someone tells an off color joke in the office, he is automatically a sex offender. If someone points out the obvious connection of a flag to slavery, she is automatically attacking your cultural heritage.

By expanding the umbrella that words mean, you destroy the nuances of language. Like when the word "rape" — defined as sexual intercourse without consent — is attached to the word "culture" and suddenly paints a broader brush that covers pretty much anything men say or do. Attaching the word "verbal" to the very specific "assault" amps up the calling of names to felony territory. Add "heritage" to a long standing bigoted "culture" and it seems goddamned noble.

More importantly, let these words and phrases completely dominate your discourse. Find ways to attack anything and everything through the prism of your pain. Eventually you and your followers will begin to lose the ability to see the complexities of living on a rock with seven billion fucking people and only see society through that kalaidiscope of personal misery. The mere opening of a door can be construed as sexist. The practice of women's basic health 97% of the time is completely eradicated because of a legal surgical procedure. Everything a white person says or does is automatically racist in intent.

A Cult of Personal Anguish requires a huge degree of fealty to these horse blinders, this narrowing of the world within the tunnel of your personal oppression or it falls apart under scrutiny.

Step 3: Recruit others who either feel that grievance or gain something by identifying.

In the Age of Constant Connectivity, this is a breeze. White Supremacist groups would be pocketed away in small, dark corners if not for the internet. With this tightening of the world via digital communication, being heard by others who hurt the same hurts as you is easier than ever before.

There are also on the periphery those who, while they don't exactly feel your specific pain, gain a sense of validation by identifying with it. These "allies" to your cause are good for numbers but don't count upon them if things get tough. While they can assist in many ways, these are just groups of seekers who feel that things aren't quite fair enough for them but have no esoteric pain to attach to. Your cause is like a t-shirt they can wear and feel included in something bigger than themselves.

Speaking of, sell t-shirts. Your "allies" will buy them. That's how you can tell them from your True Believers and you can make a couple of bucks in the process.

Step 4: Create an “Us vs Them” Mentality

Essential. Without an enemy to blame your grief upon, your cult goes nowhere. Focus lots of energy in pointing out the differences rather than similarities. The similarities weaken your cult. The differences are the fucking gas on the fire. Using Step 2 to amp up the discord, be on a constant attack on the Other. Ignore those other groups who, perhaps, have some of the same grievances because YOUR cause is FAR more important than theirs.

Remember the propaganda of WWII that reduced all Germans and all Japanese to evil caricatures. Observe how FOX News demonizes anyone who doesn't fall in line with their narrow worldview. Find your version of Bobby Jindal or Ben Carson to turncoat against those you see as Them. Remember, this is WAR (because if you attach the word "war" to anything else, it automatically becomes a Big Deal).

Become a Single Issue Proponent. Anyone who is not completely loyal to your cult becomes a part of the cause of your hurt. This is a broad strokes, scorched Earth approach that has succeeded for thousands of years.

When called out on this focus, obfuscate the issue by claiming a broader definition of the problem/oppressor:

"I love all sinners but hate the sin." "When I say 'white people are racist' I mean the system is racist." "I'm not saying Mexicans are the problem. All illegal immigrants steal our jobs..." "I'm not attacking the Good Policemen just the 'bad apples' when I say Kill the Cops." "It's not a war on women. It's a war on what's inside of women."

Once you have these four steps nailed down, go organize. Get a non-profit status or a Super PAC to support you (I mean, while you are out there sowing the seeds of revolution, someone has to pay the bills, amiright?) and legitimize your cult as either a political movement, a righteous cause, or a religion. Look around — there are legal organizations surrounding the pain Christians feel about abortions they don't have, the anguish Southerners have when removing their flag, coercing airlines to increase seat capacity for the Differently Weighted, the misery certain people have when their kids read about evolution, and Online Bullying.

A generation of citizens with crushing debt and few genuine job opportunities can feel bereft of transcendence and meaning, and “becoming woke” fills that spiritual hole. “Woke” is religion without God which strips away all the trappings of what we know of religion, simplifies the complexities of things like racism, income inequality, and the environment, and is really easy. Like Christianity, you profess your wickedness, confess your sins, and tithe to the church and you go to heaven.

Like early Catholicism, you wage war on those unbelievers and call it conversion. Create a moral binary that dictates a ‘with us or against us’ scenario and hammer it home. Spin the soft bigotry of yesterday and make it antiracism. No one likes to be called a racist and with no way to demonstrate that one is not racist, the moral binary takes hold.

I’ve read the books and heard the arguments. I believe most in the current cult are decent people who somehow believe in their movement.

Should it ever happen {May the gods avert the omen!} should it ever happen, I say that the religion of our forefathers will be supplanted by the religion of Kendi and DiAngelo, it will be to this noble toleration that America shall owe her premature death.

As for me? I’d sooner believe that Yogi Bear was the Divine Creator before putting my faith in this nonsense.

#cultthink #pontius pilate #mormons #religion of the now

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healthycoffeeguy · 4 years ago

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Check out what I just listed on Mercari. Tap the link to sign up and get $10 off. https://item.mercari.com/gl/m45094431936/

The Work and the Glory, Vol. 6

Written with a dramatic intensity and an eye for historical detail that thousands of readers have come to appreciate in previous volumes, Praise to the Man — volume 6 in the series The Work and the Glory — follows the story of the restored Church and of the ficitonal Steed family from the summer of 1841 to the summer of 1844.

Several momentous events take place during this period in Church history: Nauvoo becomes a well-established city; the Relief Society is founded; the endowment is administered for the first time in this dispensation; Joseph Smith becomes a candidate for president of the United States; he delivers his monumental King Follett Discourse. Meanwhile, however, dark forces outside as well as inside the Church are at work to destroy Joseph and the Restoration cause. Before the story ends, the powers of evil will have swept across the Church, taking out some in very high places, making numerous others waver, and taking Joseph and his brother Hyrum to their date with destiny in a town called Carthage.

Woven throughout these events are the lives of the Steeds. As Joshua sees the Mormons gaining more influence with his wife and children, his patience finally reaches the breaking point. Will must resolve his feelings for Jenny Pottsworth and his desire to know if the Church is true. New hope is born in Jessica's life when she is offered a new teaching position. Mary Ann and other Steed women participate in the beginnings of the Relief Society. But before long, whisperings reach the ears of some of the Steeds about curious teachings and practices going on in Nauvoo — specifically it is rumored that God may have restored the ancient practice of plural marriage. How will they respond when they find out that at least some of the rumors are true? The issue becomes a trial of faith that shakes the Steed family to its very roots.

At the center of this volume are the final days of the life and mission of the Prophet Joseph Smith. Though heart-wrenching in its depiction of the Prophet's last hours on earth, this book inspires admiration and affection for "the man who communed with Jehovah" and will fill readers with anticipation for that glorious time when, in the words of the hymn, "millions shall know 'Brother Joseph' again."

Gerald Lund received his B.A. and M.S. degrees in sociology from Brigham Young University, and has done post-graduate work in the New Testament and Hebrew at Pepperdine University and the University of Judaism in Los Angeles, California.

Employed by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter- day Saints' Church Educational System (CES) for many years, he has been a seminary teacher, an institute teacher and director, a curriculum writer, a director of college curriculum, and a zone administrator.

Elder Lund is a member of the Second Quorum of the Seventy and is currently serving in the Area Presidency of the Europe West Area.

Gerald Lund is among the most-read authors in Church literature. His publications have sold nearly 3,000,000 copies. Titles written by Gerald include The Work and The Glory series, The Coming of the Lord, This Is Your World, One in Thine Hand, The Alliance, Leverage Point, The Freedom Factor, and Jesus Christ, Key to the Plan of Salvation. The Kingdom and the Crown: Fishers of Men, released in 2000, is his 25th novel.

Gerald and his wife, Lynn, have seven children and reside in Alpine, Utah.

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wisdomfish · 7 years ago

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The doctrines of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) are very interesting. Most of the 'odd' ones are not initially taught to potential converts, but they should be. Instead, "they are revealed later as one matures and gains the ability to accept them." The LDS Church tries to make its official doctrines appear Christian, but what underlies those Christian-sounding terms is far from Christian in meaning.

Following are the teachings of its officials throughout the years. Please note that these teachings are documented from Mormon writers--not anti-Mormon writers.

Finally, many Mormons respond that most of the citations below are not from official Mormon writings as if that disproves the doctrines they teach. If they are not official, fine. But if not, then why have the Mormon apostles and high officials taught them and written them, and why are their books sold in Mormon bookstores? The truth is the following is what Mormons are taught.

~ Matt Slick

"Jesus paid for all our sins when He suffered in the Garden of Gethsemane," (Laurel Rohlfing, “Sharing Time: The Atonement,” Friend, Mar. 1989, p. 39.).

"We accept Christ's atonement by repenting of our sins, being baptized, receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, and obeying all of the commandments," (Gospel Principles, Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1979, p. 68.).

Baptism for the dead, (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. II, p. 141). This is a practice of baptizing each other in place of non-Mormons who are now dead. Their belief is that in the afterlife, the "newly baptized" person will be able to enter into a higher level of Mormon heaven.

"We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly. . ." (8th Article of Faith of the Mormon Church).

"Wherefore, thou seest that after the book hath gone forth through the hands of the great and abominable church, that there are many plain and precious things taken away from the book, which is the book of the Lamb of God," (1 Nephi 13:28).

The book of Mormon is more correct than the Bible, (History of the Church, 4:461).

The Devil was born as a spirit after Jesus "in the morning of pre-existence," (Mormon Doctrine, p. 192).

Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers and we were all born as siblings in heaven to them both, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163).

A plan of salvation was needed for the people of earth so Jesus offered a plan to the Father and Satan offered a plan to the father but Jesus' plan was accepted. In effect the Devil wanted to be the Savior of all Mankind and to "deny men their agency and to dethrone god," (Mormon Doctrine, p. 193; Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p. 8).

God used to be a man on another planet, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 321; Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons, vol. 5, p. 613-614; Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 345; Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 333).

"The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s . . . " (D&C 130:22).

God is in the form of a man, (Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p. 3).

"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!!! . . . We have imagined that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea and take away the veil, so that you may see," (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345).

God the Father had a Father, (Joseph Smith, History of the Church, vol. 6, p. 476; Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, vol. 5, p. 19; Milton Hunter, First Council of the Seventy, Gospel through the Ages, p. 104-105).

God resides near a star called Kolob, (Pearl of Great Price, p. 34-35; Mormon Doctrine, p. 428).

God had sexual relations with Mary to make the body of Jesus, (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 4, 1857, p. 218; vol. 8, p. 115). This one is disputed among many Mormons and not always 'officially' taught and believed. Nevertheless, Young, the 2nd prophet of the Mormon church taught it.

"Therefore we know that both the Father and the Son are in form and stature perfect men; each of them possesses a tangible body . . . of flesh and bones," (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 38).

After you become a good Mormon, you have the potential of becoming a god, (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345-347, 354.)

"Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them," (D&C 132:20).

There are many gods, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163).

"And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light: and there was light," (Book of Abraham 4:3).

There is a mother god, (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 443).

God is married to his goddess wife and has spirit children, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 516).

The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. "That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is demonstrated by the accepted records of divine dealings with man," (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 35).

The true gospel was lost from the earth. Mormonism is its restoration, (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 182-185.)

Consists of laws and ordinances: "As these sins are the result of individual acts it is just that forgiveness for them should be conditioned on individual compliance with prescribed requirements--'obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel,'" (Articles of Faith, p. 79)

There are three levels of heaven: telestial, terrestrial, and celestial, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 348).

The Holy Ghost is a male personage, A Marvelous Work and a Wonder, (Le Grand Richards, Salt Lake City, 1956, p. 118; Journal of Discourses, vol. 5, p. 179).

The first spirit to be born in heaven was Jesus, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 129).

Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers and we were all born as siblings in heaven to them both, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163; Gospel Through the Ages, p. 15).

Jesus' sacrifice was not able to cleanse us from all our sins, (murder and repeated adultery are exceptions), (Journal of Discourses, vol. 3, 1856, p. 247).

"The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood--was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers," (Journal of Discourses, vol. 8, p. 115).

"Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers," (Mormon Doctrine, by Bruce McConkie, p. 547).

"Christ Not Begotten of Holy Ghost . . . Christ was begotten of God. He was not born without the aid of Man, and that Man was God!" (Doctrines of Salvation, by Joseph Fielding Smith, 1954, 1:18).

"Elohim is literally the Father of the spirit of Jesus Christ and also of the body in which Jesus Christ performed His mission in the flesh . . . " (First Presidency and Council of the Twelve, 1916, "God the Father," compiled by Gordon Allred, p. 150).

If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation. There is no salvation [the context is the full gospel including exaltation to Godhood] outside the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 670).

We were first begotten as spirit children in heaven and then born naturally on earth, (Journal of Discourse, vol. 4, p. 218).

The first spirit to be born in heaven was Jesus, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 129).

The Devil was born as a spirit after Jesus "in the morning of pre-existence," (Mormon Doctrine, p. 192).

We need prophets today, the same as in the Old Testament, (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 444-445).

"One of the most fallacious doctrines originated by Satan and propounded by man is that man is saved alone by the grace of God; that belief in Jesus Christ alone is all that is needed for salvation," (Miracle of Forgiveness, Spencer W. Kimball, p. 206).

Jesus' sacrifice was not able to cleanse us from all our sins, (murder and repeated adultery are exceptions), (Journal of Discourses, vol. 3, 1856, p. 247).

Good works are necessary for salvation (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 92).

There is no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith as a prophet of God (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p. 188).

"The first effect [of the atonement] is to secure to all mankind alike, exemption from the penalty of the fall, thus providing a plan of General Salvation. The second effect is to open a way for Individual Salvation whereby mankind may secure remission of personal sins (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 78-79).

"As these sins are the result of individual acts it is just that forgiveness for them should be conditioned on individual compliance with prescribed requirements--'obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel,'" (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 79).

"This grace is an enabling power that allows men and women to lay hold on eternal life and exaltation after they have expended their own best efforts," (LDS Bible Dictionary, p. 697).

"We know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do," (2 Nephi 25:23).

"Many men say there is one God; the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are only one God. I say that is a strange God [anyhow]--three in one and one in three. . .It is curious organization . . . All are crammed into one God according to sectarianism (Christian faith). It would make the biggest God in all the world. He would be a wonderfully big God--he would be a giant or a monster," (Joseph Smith, Teachings, p. 372).

Some Mormons may disagree with a few of the points listed on this page, but all of what is stated here is from Mormon authors in good standing of the Mormon church.

#The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints #Book of Mormon #LDS #cult #doctrine

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classicalliberalleague · 8 years ago

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@NAC you had a list of books on your old page of recommended readings...but I can't find it now. Could you repost it?

I assume you mean this one ( I have this list on my web page with links included for the public domain stuff I could find…I try to keep it updated as I think of new things or find new ones.)

Young adult/childrenThe Little Prince by Saint-ExuperyWhere the sidewalk ends by SilversteinElla Minnow Pea by DunnSophie’s World by GaarderThe Great Good Thing by TownleyThe Jungle Book by Kipling Bridge to Terabithia by DiamondThe Westing Game by RaskingLillies of the Field by BarrettFlowers for Algernon by KeyesThe Wrinkle in Time Series(Wrinkle In Time, Wind in the Door, A Swiftly Tilting Planet) by Madeleine L’EngleThe Dark is Rising Series by Susan CooperThe Tripod Trilogy by John ChristopherThe Hobbit by TolkienCoraline by Neil GaimanEyes of the Dragon by Stephen KingThe Original Shanara Trilogy (Sword, Elfstones, Wishsong) and Landover (Magic Kingdom for Sale, SOLD!, The Black Unicorn, Wizard at Large, The Tangle Box) by Terry Brooks by Elizabeth GeorgeThe Witch of Blackbird PondAdventures of Tom Sawyer by Twain

Literature Winter’s Tale, A Soldier of the Great War, Freddy & Frederika by Mark HelprinShakespeare (Especially Othello, King Lear, Much Ado About Nothing, Twelfth Night, Tempest, Henry IV parts 1 & 2, Henry V, sonnets) Iliad Odyssey by Homer (I like the Fagles translation)Sophocles–Oedipus Trilogy , , Philoctetes , Women of Trachis Orestia by Aeschylus Medea by Euripides Victor HugoLes Miserables The Hunchback of Notre Dam by Hugo A Tale of Two Cities by Dickens To Kill A Mockingbird by LeeWuthering Heights by Emily Bronte Jane Eyre by Charlotte Bronte Complete works of Faulkner ( esp.The Sound and the Fury, Light in August) by FaulknerHoward’s End by Forster Diary of a Young Girl by FrankThe Scarlet Letter by Hawthorne Catch 22 by HellerGone with the Wind by MitchellFrankenstein by Shelley The Portrait of Dorian Gray , Importance of Being Earnest , An Ideal Husband by WildeThe Time Machine by Wells A Raisin in the Sun by HansberryNight by WieselThe Glass Menagerie by WilliamsThe Devil’s Disciple by ShawA Man for All Seasons by BoltCyrano de Bergerac by Ronstad (unless you speak French only the Hooker translation)Dracula by Stoker Inherit the Wind by Lawrence and LeeMagnificent Obsession by DouglasSilas Marner by George Eliot Decameron –Boccaccio A Modest Proposal—SwiftSelf-Reliance, The American Scholar, Experience—EmersonUp from Slavery—Booker T. Washington

PhilosophyA History of Knowledge by Van DorenThe Cave and the Light by HermanPlato (Euthyphro , Apology , Gorgias , Crito, Phaedo , Symposium , Republic )Aristotle (Metaphysics , Nicomachean Ethics , Eudemian Ethics , Politics , Rhetoric , Poetics )The History of Philosophy by CoplestonDiscourses on Livy by Machiavelli Ethical and Political Writings of St. Thomas AquinasAristotle for Everybody, 10 Philosophical Mistakes, The Great Ideas, How to Read A Book by AdlerCicero (On the Gods , On Duties , 1st and 2nd Philippics Superheroes and Philosophy edited by MorrisBuffy The Vampire Slayer and Philosophy edited by South

HistoryHistory of the Ancient World, Medieval World, Renaissance World by Susan Wise BauerThe Forgotten Man, Coolidge by ShlaesHistory of the Peloponnesian Wars by Thucydides John Adams by McCulloughFrom Dawn to Decadence by BarzunPlutarch’s Lives Cicero, Augustus by EverittLetters of John and Abigail Adams Washington by Ron ChernowThe Glorious Cause by Robert MiddlekauffLost Enlightenment by StarrReagan’s War by SchweizerPatriot’s History of the United States by Schweikart and AllenThe closing of the Muslim Mind by ReillyThe Rise and Fall of the Third Reich

Economics/PoliticsWho Really Cares and The Road to Freedom by Arthur BrooksThe World is Flat by Thomas FriedmanDave Barry Hits Below the Beltway by BarryDemocracy in America by de Tocqueville The Law by Bastiat The Upside of Down by McArdkeSpirit of the Laws The Federalist Papers Adam Smith (Theory of Moral Development , Wealth of Nations )My Journey by BlairThe Conscience of a Conservative by GoldwaterLocke (Second Treatise of Government , A Letter Concerning Tolerance )Parliament of Whores, Eat the Rich, On Wealth, Peace Kills by O’RourkeIn Defense of Globalization by BhagwatiNovus Ordo Seclorum by McDonaldBasic Economics, Civil Rights by SowellThe Next 100 Years by FriedmanThe Mystery of Capital by de SotoThe Road to Serfdom by HayekCapitalism and Freedom and Free to Choose by FriedmanNew Threats To Freedom edited by BellowA Philosophical Enquiry into the Sublime and Beautiful; Reflections on the Revolution in France by BurkeThe General Theory by KeynesThe Origins of Political Order, Political Order and Decay by FukuyamaBourgeois Virtues, Bourgeois Equality, Bourgeois Dignity by Deirdre McCloskeyCapital by Marx The Conservative Mind by Kirk

Other nonfictionPower of Myth by Joseph CampbellThe Universe in a Nutshell by HawkingFreakanomics by Levitt & DubnerThe Art of War by Sun TzuScratch beginnings by ShepardThe Tao of Physics by CapraShadowplay by AsquithHuman Excellence by MuarryThe Better Angles of Our Nature by Pinker48 Laws of Power by GreeneThe Story of Western Science by Bauer

Pleasure readingMan in the High Castle by DickBeat to Quarters, Ship of the Line, Flying Colours by ForesterThe Road to Gandolfo, Bourne Trilogy by LudlumBig Trouble by BarryEaters of the Dead, State of Fear by CrichtonRed Storm Rising by ClancyI, Claudius by GravesThe Walking Drum by L’AmourGates of Fire by PressfieldThe Scarlet Pimpernel by Ozcry It and The Green Mile by KingThe Agony and the Ecstasy by StonePillars of the Earth by FollettThe Historian by KostovaGrail Quest by CornwallThe Thirteenth Tale by StterfieldLamb, The Lust Lizard of Melancholy Cove, Vampire Trilogy, The Stupidest Angel and Fool by Moore

Sci fi/Fantasy Mists of Avalon, The Forrest House by Marion Zimmer BradleyThe Wheel of Time by Robert Jordan (et. al)Dune Series by Frank Herbert (et. al)The Sword of Truth Series by Terry GoodkindWorks of Robert Heinlein (esp. Stranger in a Strange Land, Puppet Master, Starship Troopers, Moon is a Harsh Mistress, and Double Star)Good Omens by Gaiman and PratchettWatership Down by AdamsEnder’s Game by CardAmerican Gods by GaimanAnthem, Atlas Shrugged by RandHitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy by Adams1984 by George Orwell2001–Clarke

Spiritual The Robe by DouglasLost Horizon by HiltonGod Talks with Arjuna: The Bhagavad Gita by YoganadaThe Second Coming of Christ by YoganandaThe Tao Te Ching (best to read at least two translations)The Alchemist, Veronica Decides to Die by CoelhoAutobiography of a Yogi by YoganandaEvidence of the Afterlife by LongA Course in MiraclesThe Messengers by IngramThe Celestine Prophecy by RedfieldLife before Life by TuckerJonathan Livingston Seagull and Illusions by BachSiddartha by HesseKoranThe Book of CertitudeHoly BibleBook of Mormon

PoetryThe Prophet, The Broken Wings, Song of Man by GibranLeaves of Grass by Whitman (esp. Preface, Song of Myself, I hear America Singing, Corinna’s Going A-Maying,When I Heard the Learn’d Astronomer, O Me! O Life!, O Captain! My Captain!)Works of Tennyson (especially The Lady of Shalott, Ulysses, Charge of the Light Brigade, For I dipped into the Future, In Memoriam A.H.H., Crossing the Bar, Ulysses)Works of T.S. Eliot (especially The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock, Wasteland, Hollow Men, Preludes-, Four Quartets)Divine Comedy by Dante (I like the Mandelbaum translation) Metamorphoses by Ovid Hesperides and Nobel Numbers by Herrick (esp. To the Virgins, to Make Much of Time, Argument of his book, Delight in Disorder, To His Conscience, Upon Julia’s ClothesFaust by Goethe Part I Part II Works of Sappho, Hafiz, Rumi, Li Po, Tu Fu (best to read several translations)Tagore (esp. Gitanjali)Spencer– Amoretti (Sonnets 1,8, 10, 35, 37, 67,68, 70,75, 79)Sidney —Astrophil & Stella (Sonnets 1,6,9,15, 31,39,45,52,69,71,72,87,89,108)The Passionate Shepherd to His Love—MarloweThe Nymph’s Reply to the Shepherd—RaleighShakespeare’s Sonnets (all them)Meditation 17, Holy Sonnet 10, The Bait—DonneTo a Mouse, To a Louse, Auld Lang Syne. A Red Red Rose–BurnsThe Lamb, The Tyger—BlakeRime of the Ancient Mariner, Kubla Khan—ColeridgeShe Walks in Beauty Like the Night, When We Two Parted, Darkness, We’ll Go No More A Roving, When A Man Hath No Freedom to Fight for at Home—ByronA Little Learning is a Dangerous Thing—PopeThe Measure of a Man—UnknownInvictus–HenleyPrayer of St. Francis of Assisi—Unknown (but probably not St. Francis)Ozymandias, The Flight of Love, To—, —ShellyOde on a Grecian Urn, La Belle Dame Sans Merci—KeatsSea Fever–MasefieldMy Last Duchess, Andrea del Sarto, Soliloquy of the Spanish Cloister—BrowningSonnet 43—Barret BrowningRemember, Up-hill, Echo, Promises like Pie-Crust, Lord thou thyself art love,—C.G. RossettiSudden Light, The House of Life, Soul’s Beauty—D.G. RossettiThe New Colossus–LazarusSecond Coming, Sailing to Byzantium, When you are Old, Lake Island of Inishfree—YeatsDo Not Go Gentle Into that Good Night—ThomasWork—Angela MorganThe Highwayman–NoyesCasey at Bat—ThayerJabberwocy, Walrus and the Carpenter, The Hunting of the Snark–CarrollDream Deferred, I too sing America– HughesThe Road Not Taken, Birches, Mending Wall, Fire and Ice, Out, Out–Frost

Short StoriesWilde (The Carterville ghost , The model millionaire , The nightingale and the rose )Poe (Masque of the Red Death . Tell tale heart , Cask of Amontillado , Fall of the house if of usher , The Purloined Letter ,The Thousand and Second Tale of Scheherazade , Pit and the Pendulum , Mertzengerstein , The Duc De L’omlette , The black cat , The Murders of the Rue Morgue , Van Kempelen and his discovery , Mesmeric revelation )Hawthorne (My Kinsman Major Molineux , Young Goodman Brown , Rappacini’s Daughter , Dr. Heidegger’s Experiment , The Snow Image , The Minister’s Black Veil , The Maypole of Merry Mount , The Celestial Railroad , Sister Years , The New Adam and Eve , The Artist of the Beautiful )O. Henry ( Lickpenny Lover , The Gift of the Magi ,After Twenty Years , The Last Leaf , The Cop and the Anthem , The Clarion Call , The Skylight Room , The Buyer from Cactus City , The Duplicity of the Hargraves , The Furnished Room , Witches loaves , The Third Ingredient , Spring time a la Carte , The Green Door , By Courier, The Romance of the Busy Broker, One Thousand Dollars, Tobin’s Palm)Lovecraft—(The Cats of Ultar , The Outsider , Beyond the wall of sleep , Hypnos , The call of Cuthulu , Dunwich horror , Dagon)EM Forrester (The Other side of the Hedge , The Machine Stops )Edith Wharton –The fullness of life Collins–Mr. Lismore and the Widow Bradbury—Exiles, Sound of thunderHans Christian Anderson –( In a thousand years , Little mermaid )Ambrose Bierce–Occurrence at owl creek bridgeConnell–The most dangerous game Thousand and One nights–Aladdin and his magic lamp The necklace by Maupassant Anthony Hope–The Philosophy in the Apple Orchard Doyle (The Red Headed League , Scandal in Bohemia)Gilman–The Yellow Wallpaper Harrison Bergeron by VonnegutThe story of an hour by Kate Chopin The Lottery by Shirley Jackson Rikki tiki tavi by KiplingThe ones who walk away from Omelas by Le Guin Bartley the scrivener by MelvilleThe lady or the tiger by Frank Stockton Abbot–FlatlandJericho Road by Henry van dyke Henlein– (The Unpleasant Profession of Jonathan Hoag, All you zombies, By his bootstraps, Waldo, Beyond this horizon)Philip K. Dick (We can remember it for you wholesale, Paycheck, Second Variety, The Minority Report, The Golden Man, Variable Man)William Faulkner (A Rose for Emily, The Tall Men, Shingles for the Lord, Shall not Perish, Elly, Uncle Willy, That will be Fine, That Evening Sun, Red Leaves, A Justice, A Courtship, Lo!, Ad Astra, All the Dead Pilots, Wash, Mountain Victory, Beyond)Mark Twain (The celebrated jumping frog of Calaveras County, Diary of Adam and Eve)Washington Irving (Sleepy Hollow, , The Devil and Tom Walker )Gelett Burgess–The number Thirteen , The MacDougal street affair Lord Dunsany– The bureau d’exchange de Maux , The Exiles club , The Sword of Walleran The mortal immortal byMary Shelly The Adventure of the Snowing Globe By F. AnsteyThe Sleeper and Spindle by GaimanMark Helprin (Katherine comes to yellow sky, Ellis island, Tamar)

PodcastsThe History of Rome, Revolutions

#books #book recommendations #literature #reading #book lovers

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fusion360 · 1 year ago

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Joseph Smith Polygamy: Examining Joseph Smith's Revelations on Plural Marriage

The history of Joseph Smith, revered as the visionary founder of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS), is a tapestry woven with various discussions and debates. Among the many facets that define his legacy, Joseph Smith polygamy remains one of the most intriguing and contentious. Joseph Smith's revelations on plural marriage have sparked extensive analysis and fervent discourse within and beyond the LDS community. This article undertakes a comprehensive exploration of the historical context, the revelations themselves, and the profound impact that polygamy has left on Joseph Smith's enduring legacy.

Historical Context

The emergence of Joseph Smith's practice of polygamy finds its roots in the dynamic landscape of the early 19th century. This era was characterized by the convergence of diverse religious and social movements that were reshaping conventional norms. Amidst this backdrop, a notable surge in the desire to resurrect ancient practices and reconnect with biblical teachings gained traction. One such practice, polygamy, although far from universally accepted, managed to capture the attention of select religious leaders.

Revelations on Plural Marriage

Joseph Smith's introduction to plural marriage is believed to have unfolded in the early 1830s, though its existence remained shrouded in secrecy until the mid-1850s when the LDS Church, under the stewardship of Brigham Young, publicly acknowledged its practice. The revelations underpinning the doctrine of plural marriage are meticulously documented in the Doctrine and Covenants, a compendium of sacred texts that holds a place of authority within the LDS Church.

A particular revelation, enshrined in Doctrine and Covenants Section 132, stands as a pivotal testament to Joseph Smith's reception of divine guidance on the subject. This revelation expounds upon the concept of eternal marriage and underscores the principle of plural marriage. Within this framework, plural marriage is posited as a divine mandate, drawing parallels to the practices observed by revered biblical patriarchs like Abraham and Jacob.

Diverging Perspectives

Supporters of Joseph Smith ardently contend that these revelations were integral to his prophetic mission, intrinsically bound to the restoration of ancient truths. For these advocates, Joseph Smith polygamy and his actions were an embodiment of his steadfast religious convictions, transcending any personal inclinations. However, detractors raise poignant concerns surrounding the veil of secrecy that enveloped many of these unions, spotlighting the potential for manipulation and abuse of power within such practices.

Exploring the Impact

The polygamous undertakings attributed to Joseph Smith have prompted fervent debates both within the LDS community and in the broader public discourse. Some historical accounts speculate that Joseph Smith's motivations likely extended beyond personal desires, encompassing objectives like fostering a stronger sense of community, offering support to widows, and fulfilling what he perceived as a divine imperative.

Yet, the historical accounts of these marriages, combined with revelations about the ages of some of Joseph Smith's wives, have ignited ethical and moral concerns. Historical records confirm instances where Joseph Smith married women who were already wed to other men, and some of whom were young teenage girls. These revelations have raised probing questions about the dynamics within these relationships.

The legacy of Joseph Smith and Polygamy

The legacy of Joseph Smith polygamy resonates deeply within the annals of LDS history and shapes the perception of the faith even today. Despite the formal abandonment of polygamy by the LDS Church in the late 19th century, its historical impact continues to ripple through discussions concerning the church's origins and its core tenets. The intriguing discourse encompassing Joseph Smith's wives and his revelations on plural marriage remains a captivating arena of study and contemplation for scholars, theologians, and devout believers.

Conclusion

The revelations attributed to Joseph Smith concerning plural marriage epitomize a multifaceted aspect of his legacy. These revelations, found within the pages of the Doctrine and Covenants, shine a revealing light on the interaction of historical and religious dynamics that characterized the 19th century. The enduring influence of Joseph Smith's polygamous practices serves as a reminder of the necessary interpretation regarding historical practices within the context of their era.

#joseph smith polygamy

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alliluyevas · 3 years ago

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y’all wanna see some whack polygamy discourse...

In the past few decades, researchers have scrutinized Sylvia [Sessions Lyon]’s relationship with Joseph Smith, perhaps more than any of his plural marriages. Many review the limited available evidences and assume that her daughter Josephine Lyon was fathered by Joseph Smith. In fact, Brian Hales [the author of this article] was largely convinced this was the case until recently.

Josephine Lyon was born February 8, 1844, which correlates with a conception date of approximately May 18, 1843, if she were full term. In 2016, Dr. Ugo Perego shared the results of his painstaking analysis of DNA data showing Windsor [Sylvia’s legal husband] was Josephine’s father. For many, this was not the expected result, but it makes it easier to understand Joseph’s sealings to legally married women.

The 2016 DNA evidence supports that Windsor was the only husband with whom Sylvia experienced conjugality in Nauvoo and that her sealing to Joseph was a non-sexual, eternity-only relationship like that of Ruth Vose Sayers, who was to be Joseph’s wife only after death. Despite this indisputable finding, the issue is not settled and probably never will be.

The primary evidence for possible sexuality is a document that recounts how shortly before her 1882 death, Sylvia called Josephine to her side. Josephine reported in 1915: “She then told me that I was the daughter of the Prophet Joseph Smith.” Generally, this language would be interpreted to mean physical paternity. However, an eternity-only sealing between Sylvia and Joseph would have made Josephine his daughter in a spiritual sense automatically, since she was born-in-the-covenant of that sealing.

i’m sorry but this is insane like the DNA evidence doesn’t prove they didn’t have sex it just proves they didn’t have sex on the particular occasion that led to the conception of baby Josephine. also why would you do a whole deathbed confession over “spiritual paternity” that’s a frankly ridiculous assertion. if we take Josephine’s word that this conversation occurred, which I see no reason not to, the indication would be that Sylvia believed he was Josephine’s biological father even if it turned out that wasn’t the case. (Also would just like to point out the obvious that Sylvia seems to have named Josephine after him)

the apologist narrative is so obsessed w trying to prove that there was no sex involved in as many of his plural marriages as possible, esp those involving either underage wives (which Sylvia was not) or wives that were also legally married to other men (which Sylvia was) and it’s like come on guys! you sound delusional.

#mormonposting tag #apologists will be like 'the available evidence proves this was almost certainly an eternity only sealing' *ignores other evidence*

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wisdomfish · 6 years ago

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Joseph Smith, False Prophet: The City of Zion...

[The] city shall be built, beginning at the temple lot, which is appointed by the finger of the Lord, in the western boundaries of the State of Missouri, and dedicated by the hand of Joseph Smith, Jun., and others with whom the Lord was well pleased. Verily this is the word of the Lord, that the city New Jerusalem shall be built by the gathering of the saints, beginning at this place, even the place of the temple, which temple shall be reared in this generation. (“Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Kirtland, Ohio, September 22 and 23, 1832,” Doctrine and Covenants 84:3, 4)

Joseph Smith spoke those prophetic words in 1832, over 150 years ago. That generation passed away without any Mormon temple being built in western Missouri, so the prophecy was false…

Even Smith’s followers who lived within that generation understood him to mean their own lifetime. Thus, nearly forty years later Apostle Orson Pratt indicated that faithful Mormons were still waiting for the prophecy to come to pass:

"God promised in the year 1832 that we should, before the generation then living had passed away, return and build up the City of Zion in Jackson County; that we should return and buld up the the temple of the Most High where we formerly laid the corner stone. He promised us that He would manifest Himself on that templt, that the glory of God should be upon it; and not only upon the temple, but within it, even a cloud by day and a flaming fire by night.

We believe in these promises as much as we believe in any promise ever uttered by the mouth of Jehovah. The Latter-day Saints just as much expect to receive a fulfillment of that promise during the generation that was in existence in 1832 as they expect that the sun will rise and set to-morrow. Why? Because God cannot lie. He will fulfill all His promises. He has spoken, it must come to pass." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 13, p. 362).

Apostle Pratt understood Smith to mean “the generation then living,” and he expected to see a fulfillment before that generation passed away. However, in spite of his faith in Joseph Smith, the prophecy proved false. The Mormon Prophet failed the test of Deuteronomy 18:20-22.

John R. Farkas, David A. Reed, Mormons Answered Verse by Verse, p. 92, 93

Can We Trust the Prophecies of Joseph Smith?

25 years later, Heber C. Kimball still believed it “They are holy places, and they will be held sacred even as Jackson County..” “and I shall yet see the day that I will go back there, with brother Brigham and with thousands and millions of others, and we will go precisely according to the dedication of the Prophet of the living God. Talk to me about my having any dubiety on my mind about these things being fulfilled.—I am just as confident of it as I am that I am called to be a saviour of men, and no power can hinder it.” (President Heber C. Kimball, December 17, 1857 Journal of Discourses, Vol 6. p. 190).

25 years later, Elias Smith still believed it “I expect to live to be an old man, and to go back with the saints to the land of Jackson County.” (President B. Young; “God grant it.”) (1857 Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 221)

29 years later, Heber C. Kimball still believed it “Brethren, I shall go to Jackson County with thousands of this people who will be faithful to their integrity; but we cannot go back until we have built some good houses.” (1861 Journal of Discourses, Vol. 8, p. 350, Disclosure by Heber C. Kimball).

29 years later, Elder George A. Smith still believed it “Who is there that is prepared for this movement back to the center stake of Zion, and where are the architects amongst us that are qualified to erect this temple and the city that will surround it.” “And let me remind you that it is predicted that this generation shall not pass away till a temple shall be built, and the glory of the Lord rest upon it, according to the promises.” (Elder George A. Smith, March 10, 1861, Journal of Discourse, Vol. 9, p. 71).

32 years later, Elder George Q. Cannon still believed it The generation in which the revelation was given, which is upwards of thirty years ago.

“The day is near when a Temple shall be reared in the Center Stake of Zion, and the Lord has said his glory shall rest on that House in this generation, that is in the generation in which the revelation was given, which is upwards of thirty years ago.” (Elder George Q. Cannon, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 10, p. 344, October 23, 1864).

38 years later, Elder Orson Pratt still believed it “We have just as much confidence in returning to Jackson County and the building of a great city that will remain there a thousand years before the earth passes away, as the Jews have in returning to Jerusalem and re-building the waste places of Palestine. In fact, we have more faith than they have; for they have been so many generations cast out of their land that their descendants have almost lost their faith in returning. But, the Latter-day Saints are fresh, as it were. There are many of the old stock, who passed through all those tribulations I have named, still living, whose faith in returning to Jackson County, and the things that are coming, is as firm and fixed as the throne of the Almighty.” (Elder Orson Pratt, in a discourse delivered in the Tabernacle, Salt Lake City, April 10, 1870. Journal of Discourses, Vol. 13, p. 138).

“God promised in the year 1832 that we should, before this generation then living had passed away, return and build up the City of Zion in Jackson County; that we should return and build up the temple of the Most High where we formerly laid the corner stone. He promised us that He would manifest Himself on that temple, that the glory of God should be upon it; and not only upon the temple, but within it, even a cloud by day and a flaming fire by night. We believe in these promises as much as we believe in any promise ever uttered by the mouth of Jehovah. The Latter-day Saints just as much expect to receive a fulfillment of that promise during the generation that was in existence in 1832 as they expect that the sun will rise and set to-morrow. Why? Because God cannot lie. He will fulfill all His promises. He has spoken, it must come to pass. This is our faith.” (Elder Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 13, p. 362, May 5, 1870).

39 years later, Elder Orson Pratt still believed it “all the people that were living thirty-nine years ago have not passed away; but before they do pass away this will be fulfilled.”…”We just as much expect that a city will be built, called Zion, in the place and on the land which has been appointed by the Lord our God, and that a temple will be reared on the spot that has been selected, and the corner-stone of which has been laid, in the generation when this revelation was given; we just as much expect this as we expect the sun to rise in the morning and set in the evening; or as much as we expect to see the fulfillment of any of the purposes of the Lord our God, pertaining to the works of his hands. But say the objector, “thirty nine years have passed away.” What of that? The generation has not passed away; all the people that were living thirty-nine years ago have not passed away; but before they do pass away this will be fulfilled.” (Elder Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 14, p. 275., delivered in the New Tabernacle, Salt Lake City, April 9, 1871).

42 years later, Elder Orson Pratt still believed it “God said, in the year 1832, before we were driven out of Jackson County, in a revelation which you will find here in this book, that before that generation should all pass away, a house of the Lord should be built in that county. (Jackson County). This was given forty-two years ago. That generation then living was not only to commence a house of God in Jackson County, Missouri, but was actually to complete the same. And when it is completed the glory of God should rest upon it.” (Elder Orson Pratt, Interest Manifested, ETO p. 111).

43 years later, Elder Orson Pratt still believed it “We need not expect, from what God has revealed, that a very great number of those who were then in the Church and who were driven, will have the privilege of returning to that land.” (Elder Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 17, p. 291. February 7, 1875).

58 years later, the Church still believed it The 1890 edition of the Doctrines and Covenants, Section 84, p. 289 included a footnote that read, “… a generation does not all pass away in one hundred years.” This footnote has since been deleted in more recent editions.

103 years later, Joseph Fielding Smith still believed it “I firmly believe that there will be some of that generation who were living when this revelation was given who shall be living when this temple is reared. And I do not believe that the Lord has bound himself to accomplish the matter within 100 years from 1832.” “I have full confidence in the word of the Lord and that it shall not fail.” (Joseph Fielding Smith, The Way to Perfection, Salt Lake City, p. 270).

Finally, after 140 years, the Mormon Church itself admitted this was a false prophecy. No temple was ever built on this property and the close-dated, unconditional prophecy never came true. Joseph Fielding Smith finally admitted there was no expectation this prophecy would ever come to pass:

“It may be reasonable to assume that in giving this revelation to the prophet the Lord did have in mind the generation of people who would still be living with the one hundred years from the time of announcement of the revelation, and that they would enjoy the blessings of the temple, and a glorious cloud would rest upon it. It is also reasonable to believe that no soul living in 1832 is still living in mortality on the earth.” (Joseph Fielding Smith, Answers to Gospel Questions, Vol. 4. p. 112)

The Mormon prophets, apostles and elders who followed Joseph repeatedly proclaimed this prediction would come true in a literal generation; they said the Independence temple would be built before they died. It simply never happened.

~ J. Warner Wallace

#lds #joseph smith #missouri #orson pratt #doctrine and covenants #journal of discourses #j. warner wallace

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seriouslystudying · 6 years ago

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Resources for Studying the New Testament – Come Follow Me

Resources for Studying the New Testament- Come Follow Me

I wanted to provide some of the resources that I use to study the New Testament and prepare talks and/or lessons.

None of these links are affiliate or paid links – this means that I don’t get paid if you buy or use any of these resources.

#GospelDoctrineHelps

I hope you find them helpful.

Here are some of the resources I use:

Resources for Studying the New Testament – Come Follow Me

I think I put down all of the resources I mentioned in the video here – if I’m missing any, please let me know and I’ll put a link in the comment section.

I hope this information is useful to you –

Here are some of the resources I use:

https://feastupontheword.org

https://biblehub.com/

http://www.centerplace.org/hs/

https://scriptures.byu.edu/

http://www.benchmarkbooks.com/

https://rsc.byu.edu/out-print/words-joseph-smith-contemporary-accounts-nauvoo-discourses-prophet-joseph

https://www.amazon.com/Teachings-Prophet-Joseph-Smith-F/dp/087579243X

https://scriptures.byu.edu/tpjs/STPJS.pdf

https://gregkofford.com/collections/frontpage/products/whom-say-ye

https://gregkofford.com/collections/julie-m-smith/products/jsmith-gospels

https://www.amazon.com/Full-Notes-Net-Bible-Second/dp/0737502142/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=net+bible&qid=1548082993&s=Books&sr=1-4

https://netbible.org/bible/Matthew+1#

https://www.amazon.com/New-Oxford-Annotated-Bible-Apocrypha/dp/019027607X/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=oxford+study+bible&qid=1548083052&s=Books&sr=1-3

https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/author/jim-f/

https://www.amazon.com/New-Testament-Made-Harder/dp/0842528717/ref=sr_1_fkmrnull_1?keywords=new+testament+made+harder&qid=1548083129&sr=8-1-fkmrnull

https://www.amazon.com/Clarkes-Commentary-Containing-Testaments-Critical/dp/B0015Y6W7U/ref=sr_1_1?crid=16C24N6II8CZW&keywords=adam+clark+bible+commentary&qid=1548083210&s=Books&sprefix=bible+commentary+adam+clark%2Caps%2C237&sr=1-1

Good luck teaching your lessons!

Let us know if you have any questions or concerns.

youtube

If you would like us to continue to produce the material to help you in your Mormon or Latter-day Saint Sunday School Class, let us know in the comment section below.

New Testament Gospel Doctrine

I hope you find this material helpful.

#GospelDoctrineHelps

Thanks for watching.

Here are links to other videos:

New Testament Lesson 3 – Come Follow Me

New Testament Lesson 4 – Come Follow Me

Resources for Studying the New Testament – Come Follow Me

Source: http://jeremyeveland.com/resources-for-studying-the-new-testament-come-follow-me/

0 notes

ronniegranata · 6 years ago

Text

Resources for Studying the New Testament – Come Follow Me

Resources for Studying the New Testament- Come Follow Me

I wanted to provide some of the resources that I use to study the New Testament and prepare talks and/or lessons.

None of these links are affiliate or paid links – this means that I don’t get paid if you buy or use any of these resources.

#GospelDoctrineHelps

I hope you find them helpful.

Here are some of the resources I use:

Resources for Studying the New Testament – Come Follow Me

I think I put down all of the resources I mentioned in the video here – if I’m missing any, please let me know and I’ll put a link in the comment section.

I hope this information is useful to you –

Here are some of the resources I use:

https://feastupontheword.org

https://biblehub.com/

http://www.centerplace.org/hs/

https://scriptures.byu.edu/

http://www.benchmarkbooks.com/

https://rsc.byu.edu/out-print/words-joseph-smith-contemporary-accounts-nauvoo-discourses-prophet-joseph

https://www.amazon.com/Teachings-Prophet-Joseph-Smith-F/dp/087579243X

https://scriptures.byu.edu/tpjs/STPJS.pdf

https://gregkofford.com/collections/frontpage/products/whom-say-ye

https://gregkofford.com/collections/julie-m-smith/products/jsmith-gospels

https://www.amazon.com/Full-Notes-Net-Bible-Second/dp/0737502142/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=net+bible&qid=1548082993&s=Books&sr=1-4

https://netbible.org/bible/Matthew+1#

https://www.amazon.com/New-Oxford-Annotated-Bible-Apocrypha/dp/019027607X/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=oxford+study+bible&qid=1548083052&s=Books&sr=1-3

https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/author/jim-f/

https://www.amazon.com/New-Testament-Made-Harder/dp/0842528717/ref=sr_1_fkmrnull_1?keywords=new+testament+made+harder&qid=1548083129&sr=8-1-fkmrnull

Good luck teaching your lessons!

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New Testament Gospel Doctrine

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Thanks for watching.

Here are links to other videos:

New Testament Lesson 3 – Come Follow Me

New Testament Lesson 4 – Come Follow Me

Resources for Studying the New Testament – Come Follow Me

Source: http://jeremyeveland.com/resources-for-studying-the-new-testament-come-follow-me/

https://jeremyevelandmba.wordpress.com/2019/01/23/resources-for-studying-the-new-testament-come-follow-me/

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