#Death note speculation

[suckerforobliviousidiotsinlove]

Question how did y’all interpret “for the new unicorn” bc like I have multiple thoughts but they aren’t coherent so sorry but

1. First of all Lucius wrote that he’s the scribe he wrote it (sorry that’s a little bit important to my Sprizzy shipping heart especially with Izzy’s little smile)

2. Ok so one interpretation I had was essentially Lucius was saying “welcome to the gays” (since unicorns are associated with queer culture) bc like Izzy being repressed af but now not anymore but like also Lucius doesn’t really know that so maybe that’s not what it meant

3. The unicorn was the figurehead of the ship so was it like saying Izzy is the new figurehead for them?? Idk like I said these thoughts are not fully formed my brain is a little broken

4. Maybe something else idk what do you think?

[nyaskitten]

Man, being a cast member on Ninjago must be awesome. Like you've been with some of these people for years not only on Ninjago but several other shows (because obviously Canadian VA's are gonna be in Canadian shows). Like what's it like when you're a veteran Nijnago VA pulling up to the studio of a new animated show and suddenly you're greeted by another longtime Ninjago VA?

Like the friendships from being on Ninjago for 12+ years, as well as other shows, must be insane...

[kateis-cakeis]

Thinking about the structure of the Old Religion.

From what we know there's the Nine which refers to the High Priestesses of the Triple Goddess - powerful sorcerers who obtained immortality (unless killed by some form of magic), and performed important rituals of the Old Religion.

It is unknown if there was a High Priest equivalent, but Gaius in S1Ep13 does tell Merlin that "the High Priests have the power to mirror life and death". This suggests that perhaps there were High Priests of the Triple Goddess, and that they also had a Nine.

There's the Bendrui, women who failed to become part of the Nine. Just like those who eventually became High Priestesses of the Triple Goddess, they were chosen at birth for the priesthood - taken from their families and raised as initiates of the Old Religion. Despite their failure, Bendrui are practiced in potent magic, and appear to have above average gifts.

There's the Bloodguard, warrior priests who swore to protect the High Priestesses. They, like the High Priestesses, were the only people to ever set eyes upon the staff carved from the Rowan tree that grows at the very heart of the Isle of the Blessed.

It could be suggested that like the Bendrui, the Bloodguard could have been failed High Priests, but there is no evidence (other than the existence of the Bendrui, and the mention of High Priests) to truly suggest this.

It is also unknown if the Bloodguard served the Triple Goddess. It is possible that the priests served various different gods of the Old Religion, but due to their relation to the Nine specifically, it is likely these warrior priests served the Triple Goddess.

There's the Catha, which contains priests. (Alator is referred to being "of the Catha, warrior and priest", he also says "I'm a Catha priest").

It is unknown if they served the Triple Goddess, or a different god of the Old Religion (and we know they are priests of the Old Religion because Morgana says, "He's a Catha...priest of the Old Religion.").

They have their own language, however, suggesting that they are a unique culture, and perhaps even an ethnic group. (This is further supported by Alator saying Catha are trained from birth to master all physical pain, it is also said that they guard their ancient knowledge - which leans towards them being a people rather than just initiates of the Old Religion)

There's the Disir, the highest court of the Old Religion, made up of three women chosen at birth to be trained as seers and soothsayers. They are the mouthpiece of the Triple Goddess, and interpret her word. As Gaius says, "When they sat in judgement, their word was final". They pass on the runemark, which is both judgement and fate - it contains a person's guilt, as well as the path the gods have chosen for them.

There's the Druids, a peaceful people who worship the Old Religion and often possess magic. It's a part of their beliefs to help people in need of care, and therefore, those who weren't born a Druid can find a home amongst them (Morgana is one such example).

Moreover, the Druids look for children with the gift of telepathy to serve as apprentices (perhaps to keep them safe? perhaps to encourage their magic in childhood?). The Druids also have a tattoo of a triskelion somewhere on their body, perhaps as a part of a ritual (to indicate someone has become a Druid?).

While the Druids have an intimate knowledge of prophecy and destiny, especially regarding Emrys and the Once and Future King, they do not appear to be priests or priestesses in any form. Just like the Catha, they have their own language (called the Druid tongue and Druidic Runes by Gaius), therefore, it is possible that they too are a unique culture and/or an ethnic group.

There's the Isle of the Blessed, a sacred location of the Old Religion, said to be the centre of it, and the focus of its power - it is also where the power of the ancients can still be felt after the Great Purge. Artifacts such as the Rowan staff, the Cup of Life, and the Horn of Cathbhadh were kept there under the care of the High Priestesses. Furthermore, Morgana's healing bracelet was forged on Isle - suggesting that its power allowed for the creation of powerful artifacts (this is further supported by the Rowan staff which was carved from the tree that grows there).

In a deleted scene for S4Ep1, Morgause says when she was first brought to the Isle, the hallways were teeming with women - High Priestesses. Although it is said often within the fandom, canon never establishes if the initiates were trained on the Isle. This deleted scene, however, heavily suggests it.

There's the Caerlanrigh, a sacred spring within the Grove of Brineved. There, the Disir reside within a cave, where the spring feeds into an ancient pool - in which the Disir divine from. The old ways are at their strongest there, and it's at the very centre of their powers (whether Gaius meant the old ways or the Disir here is unclear).

There's the Cauldron of Arianrhod, a sacred site of the Old Religion. The lake contains the power of the White Goddess, who can be summoned to heal those affected by the Teine Diaga ritual. However, if such a person is tricked into entering the cauldron, their soul would be lost forever.

There's the Crystal Cave, said to be the birthplace of magic. It is filled to the brim with scrying crystals that show the past, present, and future. Taliesin used the cave as the source of his prophecies for the kings of old. And as much as the crystals can be controlled, they can force visions upon powerful sorcerers too.

The cave can also hold spirits within it, seen with both Balinor and Taliesin.

While this may have been the case for Merlin alone, the cave can restore a person's magic.

There are celebrations important to the Old Religion too, such as:

Samhain, a time of year where the people feel closest to the spirits of their ancestors, in which they celebrate their passing.

During Samhain it was traditional for the High Priestesses to gather on the Isle of the Blessed and perform a blood sacrifice to release the Dorocha. This was done on the stroke of midnight, when the veil between the worlds is at its thinnest.

Since the Dorocha do not roam free in the world throughout the series, it is suggested that a second blood sacrifice was done by the High Priestesses - perhaps before the night was through - to close the veil once more.

In Camelot, a feast is held as part of the celebrations. (This suggests that while the Old Religion and its practices were abandoned during and after the Purge, the heart of the religion and its holidays were never replaced).

Beltane, a time of year where the High Priestesses would gather at the Great Stones of Nemeton and summon the spirits of their ancestors with the Horn of Cathbhadh. It opens the door to the Spirit World and allows the person who blew the horn to see and speak with their ancestor of choice.

In Camelot a feast is held as part of the celebrations (which much like Samhain seems indicate that the Old Religion has been around for so long that it cannot be removed from society entirely - that the people clung onto some traditions, including the royal family).

There's the Gods of the Old Religion, the Triple Goddess, the White Goddess, and Nemaine. It could be implied that the White Goddess, and the Earth Mother Nemaine are part of the Triple Goddess, but it is just as likely for them to be separate gods.

If so, the Triple Goddess is heavily associated with the Nine, destiny and fate, and the immortality of certain sorcerers. Perhaps she is also associated with the balance of the world, due to the power over life and death being tied to the High Priestesses and supposed High Priests.

The White Goddess, however, appears to be associated with one's soul and healing. It was only her power that could heal and retain Gwen's soul after Teine Diaga ritual.

The Earth Mother Nemaine is related to Gean Canach, as it is said her tears forged the creature. The book Gaius reads from has more information, and from what can be deciphered, it says that Nemaine first wept at the slaughter of war, resulting in the Gean Canach crawling out of the Earth's belly (there is more written on the page, but it is impossible to tell what it says). This suggests that Nemaine lives within the Earth's core, and that she is indeed associated with nature and living beings as her name implies.

Furthermore, since she wept at the slaughter of war, she is perhaps the god of life itself, but not of the entire cycle. And due to the Gean Canach's abilities, to devour and drain a sorcerer of their magic, it is likely that this war's slaughter was brought about by magic.

It is possible that The Earth Mother Nemaine could be related to the Pool of Nemhain. Despite having different spellings in the show (the subtitles), they have extremely similar pronunciations (even if it is a bit different). Perhaps they are unrelated, but if they are one and the same, it could be suggested that the Earth Mother is connected to death as well as life, due to the pool being the last of the Five Gateways to the Spirit World. (This contradicts what is analysed in the above paragraph, but this post is meant to speculate multiple possibilities.)

Honourable mentions:

It could be suggested that the Quest Ritual was once part of the Old Religion. It includes the heir to the throne of Camelot transcending their body in order to receive a vision of a quest. This quest is meant to prove their worth to the people, and their worthiness of the throne. The heir prepares themself by cleansing their body and dressing in white robes. They spend an entire night kneeling on the floor, barefoot, with their eyes closed.

Due to how Arthur reacts in the morning when Uther pulls him out of it, and how sacred the entire process appears to be, it is as if the heir is actually gifted with a vision of a quest. This is supported by his reaction, as he looks dazed when relays what he has seen. Therefore, it seems as if the ritual includes some form of magic due to the preparation, and if so, then it's likely it was a practice of the Old Religion (specifically for the heirs of Camelot? Due to Camelot's association with the very heart of magic?)

It has been around for hundreds of years, so it is not outside the realm of possibility that the Quest Ritual is so old that the general consensus has forgotten its ties to the Old Religion, or much like Samhain and Beltane, it is perhaps so baked into society that it couldn't be abandoned.

--

In S1Ep13, Merlin says that the "Old Religion died out centuries ago". Even in Series 1 this is far from true, but later seasons make this remark seem entirely ignorant. If anything, this sentiment comes from a post-Purge society, where the structures of the Old Religion no longer exist. Perhaps it is even propaganda that Uther pushed forward as people became more fearful over the years, turning away from the old ways despite once practicing such beliefs (and for the people of Camelot, still practicing some of those beliefs).

It is possible this was a retcon but if so then it's directly retconned in S1Ep13 when it's revealed that Nimueh is a High Priestess.

Anyhow, in response to Merlin's ignorance, Kilgharrah says, "The Old Religion is the magic of the Earth itself. It is the essence which binds all things together. It will last long beyond the time of men".

This shows that the Old Religion doesn't just refer to the religion and the gods, but rather it is the very magic that makes up the fabric of the world, and as Balinor says in S2Ep13 it's either a part of you or it isn't. This suggests that it is indeed not just a religion, but the very world, the Earth, magic.

He also goes on to say that Merlin must "find those who still serve it", which shows that Uther very much didn't succeed in eradicating the structure of the Old Religion entirely, at least at that point in the show. And perhaps that anyone could serve it, even after the very structure collapsed.

All this is to say that the Old Religion is extremely pagan. The structure itself is vague perhaps because Old Religion is personal, it is vague. The differences between the High Priestesses, the Catha, and the Druids make this clear. Following the Old Religion's beliefs, traditions, and holidays is personal and spiritual because it varies, because there is no wrong way. Because there are no set rules or a real structure at all. The High Priestesses had power, yes, but this seems to come directly from the Triple Goddess herself, rather than a societal standing.

Nimueh was at court, and she was Uther's friend, but she was also very quickly thrown from the court after Ygraine died. And yes, the High Priestesses went to war with the Ancient Kings, but that appears to be a difference in factions, rather than let's say the Christian church and its power over the centuries.

Therefore, I propose that the Old Religion as a religion was loose in its structure, that it never died out like Merlin said (which does seem to be a post-Purge sentiment), but instead simply changed and evolved, and continued to exist even after the Purge, with its holidays in Camelot, and with the Druids and their practices/beliefs.

-----

Overall, the information we have on the structure of the Old Religion is vague and patchy. This was perhaps intentional so the writers could work around existing canon to introduce new concepts without being constricted by their past worldbuilding. But that's getting into the Intentional Fallacy, so I'll leave that there.

It appears that the High Priestesses had the most power in society, due to their past wars with the Ancient Kings, and their sheer power and knowledge. Not to mention their artifacts and control over creatures like the Fomorroh.

But there are different beliefs and structures to the Old Religion, like with the Catha and the Druids, suggesting that there are multiple ways to worship and follow the Old Religion.

The many sacred sites show that there are different powers and sources to the Old Religion that have different purposes. Like how the path to the Cauldron of Arianrhod was lined with banners for pilgrims, not to necessarily summon the White Goddess, but to visit the site. Or how the Isle of the Blessed is a powerful religious site, while the Crystal Cave is a fairly legendary and unknown place that few ever get to see.

In conclusion, the Old Religion is vast and has many facets to it. There is some structure, but it doesn't seem entirely necessary in order to follow the Old Religion. And in reality, it is inherent to the Earth, it is magic itself.

[bahoreal]

so. this poster. its beautiful. and i just want to break down some of the imagery in it because im sure it will be relevant when the season airs

the heart - they make the shape of a heart, but there is a crack down the centre, which leads on to

the skull - there is a skull between them, with the eye sockets blending into stedes eye and eds kraken makeup. the skull is cracked down the middle

they form a skull and crossbones ☠️ shape with the sword and the rose but because of the way they are facing, it also has

the sword through the eye - the way that stede killed someone in s1, an accident, mirrored by the rose on the other side, but this one misses the eye

much to think about

[1tsjusty0u]

DO I HAVE TO CHANGE THE SHRINE OF RESURRECTION FOR THIS AU??

[rueryuuzaki]

i liked the part where ryuk ate light's heart

[very-much-asleep]

I’ve been thinking about L’s monster speech recently, and I’ve always wondered about something: the fandom has basically unanimously agreed that Light is the ‘lying monster’ mentioned who ‘devours’ L/ brings about L’s defeat, and I definitely do agree with that because it does describe him, but I also think that a lot of people are overlooking L calling himself that monster, and how he’d be defeated by it.

Which brings me to my main point (although it’s more an absentminded speculation but bear with me for a moment); is L himself partly to blame for his downfall? As said before, he admits that he’s the type of monster who is capable of devouring him, and it just made me think about the things he’s done over the series that line up with the description that could have led to giving himself a disadvantage, sort of.

For example, the ‘not having understanding of a human heart’ line could be seen as L’s lack of charisma that ultimately made the Task Force always swing towards Light’s effortlessly charming excuses than L’s blunt, sometimes even callous way of phrasing things. I saw someone talking about this in more detail on another post, and it ultimately says that had L been more charismatic (or ‘had a better understanding of the human heart’, for the sake of drawing links to the speech), people may have been more willing to listen to him about Light’s identity as Kira.

‘They eat though they’ve never experienced hunger’ is an interesting one, and this could very well be a stretch here, but I thought maybe it could refer to his profession: the ‘eating’ in this case being catching criminals, and the ‘hunger’ the sense of justice that drives most detectives that L largely lacks, viewing cases instead as games that pique his interest and not some huge wrongs that have to be righted because of the fact that they’re, well, wrong.

(Of course, he seems to express having some sense of justice on a few occasions, but that’s a discussion for another day which I might focus more on in my ‘how kind is L’ essay that I’d like to say is currently in the works but then I’d be lying…)

I can’t really think of anything particularly downfall-inducing in the academics part, but the last line—‘they seek friendship even though they do not know how to love’—is one I have some comments on.

So, L calls Light his ‘first friend’. It’s confirmed by the creator of the series that he’s lying when he says this, but that only makes it more interesting because it fits the ‘doesn’t know how to love’ aspect more closely. What I think is true is that L saw Light as someone of a high enough intellect to play all these complicated mind-games with, which could be his equivalent of ‘seeking friendship’ but never really feeling any genuine connection.

I interpreted the flaw with this one as L being so caught up in his intricate web of mind-games with Light and intent on having a personal victory over Kira that these priorities became more important or at least more interesting for him than cutting straight to the point and getting the evidence needed to convict him. Of course, I’m not saying that L wasn’t trying to do that, but it’s more the cat-and-mouse, testing-the-waters way he began doing this that potentially took more time than it could’ve done had L been solely focused on just catching Kira and that being the end of it.

What I’m trying to say is that maybe L’s slightly-shifting focus from catching Kira to tripping Kira up is partly what caused his downfall, and that the ‘monster’ that ‘devoured’ him is as much himself as it was Light; or, if that’s a bit of an exaggeration, at least he’s somewhat responsible.

(That doesn’t stop me from loathing Light for playing dirty to kill him off, though.)

[orcelito]

God, what even is my "reasons this hasn't been updated in 4 and a half months" list anymore hfkshdj

I think we're at: wrote a smut fic, got a new girlfriend, got into bg3, quit my job I had for 8 years, my dad fucking died, got Throat Bleeding Disease, got into crochet, started watching way too much anime, got into Stardew Valley again...

🤔🤔🤔🤔 things sure have been busy, huh?

[fandom-trash-xl]

Looking at the Red Prince

(Now with attached clips, compiled a few that stood out)

There's a bit we have to unpack here with the Red Prince and the Red King being absent (most likely dead).

With his father(?) gone, the Prince is left with big shoes to fill, much too big for him to responsibly handle at the moment, acting high and mighty to compensate (and also likely by virtue of his upbringing) and having a few childish touches (and slip ups with the crown) that shows he hasn't had much training to fill this role. He's very firm on his title of royalty, though this may also be his generally pompous and spoiled nature unrelated to the King being gone. As the Curious Cat notes, he struggles with things not going his way under his new charge, being unable to do "the one thing he was put on this acre to do"... fill his father's shoes as a winner of games.

And there's clearly some trauma here tied to the King's (likely) death:

The Prince never took up the mantle of Red King after these events, refusing to take his father's place or take up that high of role so soon. He's still the Red Prince and "there is no king".

When one of the guards comments that "if I hadn't been for [Team RWBY's] kind, the King would still be here", he is quickly shushed by the rest. Either because this isn't info these outsiders should be privy too- or to avoid upsetting the prince, likely still wrestling with the situation.

Absolutely panicked, defensive, and frantic at the thought of infiltrators

His tone drops with fear when he asks what Ruby about her kind and both mentally and physically cracks when he hears they're humans, eyes shrink, eye twitches. General negative associations with humans. (The pieces even react too)

His rambling about infiltrators also goes into some very telling specifics. There have been infiltrators before, namely Alyx in The Girl Who Fell Through the World... and the stealing the crown? Likely not referring to just its value as a treasure (and also a final remnant of his father's influence) but also the title behind it. The Red Prince is the last heir to the Crimson Castle, meaning he is the last line of defense for the royal name and he'd likely be hunted to usurp the inheritance.

There is a good chance that Alyx may have been the one to kill the Red King. This world is the "sequel", the Ever After in Alyx's wake... and before we address that Team RWBY would have known about the King's absence from Girl Who Fell Through the World, consider that we've been shown that fairy tales in RWBY tend to leave things out.

Note that the Prince's doll porcelain cracks when he gets upset- becomes fragile due to his emotions. Perhaps this was exploited by Alyx to defeat and subsequently kill the Red King, testing his temper to make him an easier piece of china to break. Getting overheated emotionally (assuming they have a rather high threshold) and cracking seems to be practically a death omen for the Red royalty as it leaves them highly vulnerable to breakage...

...especially considering that, even after the Curious Cat touches his heart to calm him down, the Red Prince's cracks don't mend.

[muninnhuginn]

trigun (talking original anime not stampede/manga here as I can’t comment on those yet) is actually genuinely really solid in terms of themes and repeating imagery. the way the very setting of a desert with the associated resource scarcity plays into it all. you get monopolies over water where one family holds everything whilst the surrounding areas are left to rot. but then you have small patches of greenery that could have amounted to nothing but due to years of nurturing they’ve grown up into forests. it’s about what you do with what you’re given and what you choose to pass on to others.

[ismellpestilence]

the uninspired dramatic-stormy-windswept-heat-of-battle blackbonnet reunion idea vs the genius drunkenly-written-note-that-says-heyyyyyyyy-that-Lucius-begged-him-not-to-send blackbonnet reunion idea

[slightlyunconventional]

a rant i guess

[musical-chick-13]

Who do I feel as though genderbent mello would get girboss treatment

See, I go back and forth on this, because my instinctive reaction is that you are absolutely right. There's the whole implied Catholicism thing (people love to use that as an aesthetic, which, fair, I used to be Catholic we have some banger art and designs), there's the leather and Fashion Choices™, there's the "is a criminal who kills people but isn't The Worst One Here" and there's the "main target of their ire is an unpopular character" all of which are prime traits for fandom girlboss-ification.

The conflict I find myself having, though, is that this character is. Angry. That's kind of his Thing™. And if he were a woman........people really don't like angry women. Especially if they act out about it. If they're lucky, all that happens is they get called "crazy" or "hysterical." But most of the time they get called [insert gendered insult or death threat here]. (Remember when I got harassed multiple times irl for simply dressing up as a fictional character at a con, good times.) A female version of this character would have "conventionally attractive thin young person" to her advantage, and people are kinder to female characters if they fit into that category than if they don't. And, again, a major source of this character's anger involves their misplaced disdain for a character the fandom at large (sadly, incorrectly) does not have a ton of love for. And those things might be enough to override the general fandom distaste for destructive anger in female characters.

I'm going to go into this further in my "almost-genderbent DN" post (which is. it's coming. I just. chronic illness. words.), but I guess it would depend on how unhinged (and, specifically in what ways she is unhinged) the story makes this genderbent version of her. Some types of "unhinged" are seen as delightful or even narratively palatable, and some aren't. Because there is a general-fandom threshold between, "The crimes make her cool™" and "The crimes make her the devil incarnate" and I'm trying to fully parse out where exactly that threshold is. And once I have a more concrete idea of it, all of you will be the first to know. :)

(Another factor in whether or not she gets Girlbossed™ is probably to what extent (if any) genderbending her changes her relationship with Matt. Because they're a pretty popular ship, and if a character choice makes a ship more or less appealing in the eyes of the fandom...historically, that's going to change the general perception of that character.)

[fgooooooo]

A lil bit of both

I'm typing up a storm in the tags

[lyssitalennon]

sick of fuckin randos trying to hijack my posts like make your own goddamn post to post your CLOWN TAKES

[sreegs]

I reblogged it earlier but I'm glad the Something Awful Forums 9/11 thread was archived because it's an incredibly important slice of internet history. For the record I think 9/11 was thousands of personal tragedies for the direct victims of the attacks but one big national farce that led to America's ongoing slide into fascism, and the nationalism and remembrance around it is a joke especially in the wake of the same amount of deaths every fucking day in the US during the height of coronavirus.

Nevertheless I think it's important that if you do not remember because you were too young or just didn't exist on Sept 11, 2001 to read the Something Awful 9/11 forums to get an idea of what the internet was like at the moment when America changed to 24 hour news cycles and renewed hyper-nationalism not seen since WWII.

This all happened before Twitter, Facebook, before Discord. Before smart phones. Before most people had cell phones. When a lot of people still had dial-up internet, even. Some people in the thread were relying on radio because internet and TV weren't keeping up.

It was a live event of internet denizens reacting to the biggest national event (and among the biggest international events) of the past 25 years. It was also a slice of what the internet was like at the turn of the millennium. Not only that, but people accurately calling out who was responsible, and what would result before the attacks even finished.

Keep in mind that the links that follow contain images of the event, lots of Islamophobia, people calling for the Middle East to be nuked, people blaming Palestine, casual racist and homophobic language (this was Something Awful after all), etc etc. They preserved the first 17 pages which spanned about 24 hours during the events. It's the origin of the "WATCH BUSH START A FUCKING WAR" screenshot.

Links under the fold. I've also annotated the pages with notes regarding the timeline and any posts of interest. Note the thread was preserved in Pacific Time even though the page says times are Eastern. That's incorrect. Post timestamps are 3 hours behind Eastern Time, which is the time zone where the attacks occurred:

Page 1 - Note the first post was edited to include images of the second attack. The thread started after the first plane hit. Second plane hitting the WTC happens here too.

Page 2 - Poster accurately calling out Bin Laden was responsible at 9:14 AM EST

Page 3 - "WATCH BUSH START A FUCKING WAR"

Page 4

Page 5 - First official acknowledgement it was a terrorist attack.

Page 6 - Pentagon hit

Page 7

Page 8

Page 9 - Commercial flights grounded by FAA (Federal Aviation Administration)

Page 10 - First mention of towers collapsing at end of page

Page 11 - More reactions to collapse of first tower. People thinking it was a bomb or yet another plane. Rumors about a fourth plane just missing the White House (these are false and predate the actual 4th plane crash by minutes)

Page 12

Page 13 - By this point there's just rampant speculation about more bombs at the WTC, the US Capitol building being hit, etc (all false). Remember this is all just people reacting to TV news and radio and the rumor mill via phone, AIM, IRC, and maybe text messages.

Page 14 - By this point internet news sites are overwhelmed

Page 15 - Second tower collapses. First acknowledgement of the fourth plane that crashed in PA.

Page 16 - There's an abrupt time jump in the threads, I think it was the result of admins pruning the activity or the SA forums going down. This page starts on 9/12 even though it is page 16. American flag signatures and ribbons start appearing.

Page 17