#Can you be selfish/manipulative and still have genuine feelings for another person

[differentnerddiplomatopera]

so quick thing I wanted to talk about, and one of my favorite episodes in Nevermore. Episode 41. Annabel is being her flirty self, Lenore is annoyed and Annabel gives us insight into how she sees people. She knew there was a chance that they didn’t need to pretend to be enemies if everyone might’ve become friends, but only because there was a catch. To her, nothing in life is given freely. You must find their form of “currency” to pay, and once paid, you don’t even exactly get what you want immediately. You pay the currency, then you (forgive my example) rummage through their storage room (if you understand what I mean by this, I love you), continually paying currency; until you snap or they find out. But as Lenore later implies, it’s “empty, fake.” And then do gaypeoplefantasizeaboutmurder.

[secriden]

So I was pondering just why I like Style so much and why his specific "failings" and imperfections are so compelling to me - and I think it's because all the other main characters are flawed in ways that are obvious but not very relatable.

Fadel and Bison are murders. Regardless of their motivations and how much they buy into Mama Lilly's propaganda, they still have taken lives and do so with little remorse. Kant is actively lying to, manipulating and taking advantage of Bison and Style (his supposed best friend) for his own ends with seemingly very little compunction. Yes, he's got his reasons; but still.

And then you have Style. His major flaw is that he is thoughtless and selfish and he doesn't seem to understand how to leash in his impulsive desires. This means he constantly ignores or crosses Fadel's boundaries to the point that, by the end of episode 3, is genuinely hurtful. All the same, compared to the things Fadel, Bison, and Kant have done and are still doing (reminder: ep 3 opened with another murder/assassination), this is relatively tame.

But that's precisely why I think people are being so harsh to him vs the other characters. Many of us have felt like the victim of someone like this because it's so common and so we relate to Fadel's frustration and then hurt and anger, and that makes Style actions feel painful in a way that’s personal. Few of us have been victims of the level of violence or manipulation that Fadel and Bison and Kant are dishing out.

Yet that's precisely why I like Style - he's imperfect in ways that add realistic complexity to his character. Why would we expect a character who is bold, brash, and impulsive to also be thoughtful and considerate?? He acts before he can think about things: that's the whole point of his character. He juxtaposes Fadel perfectly because Fadel "plans everything down from years, months, weeks to days" and Style hasn't acted with more than 8 seconds of forethought in his life. It’s part of what makes him perfect for Kant's plan in the first place.

But then, but THEN once Style begins interacting with Fadel, we start to get moments when Style seems to still and become intensely focused - most notably:

Right after the confrontation in the locker rooms (sadly I don't think anyone's gif'ed this yet, so screenshots it is!)...

…after his conversation with Bison about Fadel…

…and when he watches Fadel beat 3 guys up with ease.

We are watching Style find reasons to grow. We are seeing moments when he’s catching himself, slowing down, thinking, wondering. And while it initially starts with curiosity, he so quickly falls into fascination and obsession, and by the end of episode 3 it’s clear he wants more. It's not just about understanding Fadel anymore, Style wants to have him for himself. And if he's going to be something meaningful to Fadel he’s going to have to mature.

This is why I find Style so interesting and so fun to watch. He’s loud, in your face, and obnoxious so the layers aren’t as obvious. We think there’s nothing more there, but his complexity is deceptively hidden while they’re ironically much clearer in the quiet characters like Fadel and Kant.

And I don't think it's unreasonable to expect this growth. Style is written TO HAVE ROOM TO GROW. And, yes, I do think Style is going to rise gloriously to the challenge. We already have hints that this is precisely where the narrative means to take him:

(Fuck, look at how soft and earnest Style's expression is in the left screenshot. ;A;)

He’s by no means perfect but that gives him space to have a hell of a character arc and I, for one, can’t wait for it. 🙌

[candyheartedchy]

Part two of this, so if you want more context on this analysis, please read the first part!

In part one I went over the struggles of SpongeBob’s desire to fit in and how he falls into this perfectionist nature. And because of this, he also falls into being a people pleaser A LOT. Where he’ll put the needs of others (mostly his friends) before his own. He also gets tricked and manipulated constantly by folks for their own personal gain and selfish reasons. Not to say SpongeBob doesn’t have any himself, but he tends to put his own on the back burner in order to please his friends. Again, he’s a people pleaser, he wants everyone to like him. The episode “Not Normal��� is another example of him worrying he’s not normal enough and changes his personality and appearance because he thinks he’ll be better. He also worries what his own parents think of him, even though his parents don’t mind his energetic nature and childlike wonder.

Once again trying to prove himself to people. But the question still stands, will he ever “grow up” and “be mature”?

Well, that’s where Coraline (my self insert) comes in.

Coraline is a sea monster. Her species is well known for being scary and dangerous. But she’s not. She’s an outcast. Spending her entire youth bullied by other sea monsters due to being seen as “sensitive” and “weak”. And once old enough, she leaves her trench. Going from town to town trying to find a place to call home, before finding herself in Bikini Bottom and ends up working for Plankton because no one else will hire her. Already sealing her fate of crossing paths with SpongeBob. And once the two do meet, SpongeBob of course wants to befriend her, offering to show her around because he wants to make a good impression. But due to Mr. Krabs threatening him when they find out she works for Plankton, the sponge once again puts others before his own needs, causing Coraline to get stood up by him. And then SpongeBob ends up having to apologize later on.

[More context of this in the first two chapters of the fanfic about them here!]

Eventually he forms a friendship with the sea monster, almost in secret from his own boss.

Right away the two hit it off, discovering that they share a few similar hobbies and interests. But the two also start to notice that they share the same struggles as well. People pleasing. SpongeBob does it to avoid being alone, while Coraline does it to not be seen as a threat. Unlike SpongeBob, Coraline accepts her loneliness, purposefully avoiding folks and will sometimes deny the sponge’s offers in fear of scaring him off, but because she wants to keep peace, she keeps accepting them.

But SpongeBob is scared. Not because Coraline is scary. He’s afraid of being tricked and disappointing his boss. With Mr. Krabs filling his head with the idea that Plankton is using Coraline to get to him to get to the secret formula, SpongeBob starts to get paranoid. While Coraline on the other hand feels trapped because she has to do what Plankton tells her or else she loses her job. But because she’s honest, she’ll let SpongeBob in on the plans, allowing the two to be one step ahead of their bosses to avoiding any conflict between them. The two then start to make a game out of it, sneaking around and being very tongue in cheek whenever they have to “confront” each other during work hours. But once the two starts to catch feelings for each other, it gets messy really fast.

Coraline believes she’s a mistake. Believes every time SpongeBob is nice to her is out of either pity or as a joke. She wants to avoid him but can’t, SpongeBob is stubborn, but so is she, so it’s a constant push and pull between the two. SpongeBob genuinely enjoys her company. He never met anyone who treated him gently before and he doesn’t want to mess up whatever they have going between them because he’s afraid he won’t find it again.

Skipping forward to them dating. For another analysis post on the whole thing about SpongeBob and dating can be found here!

Neither have any dating experiences. The only time SpongeBob had form “relationships” was with a boat, a spatula and a krabby patty.

With “Spatula” he had to get a replacement in order to continue his work and the episode is kinda treated like a “cheating” allegory in a way that SpongeBob chose his work before the spatula, later in tears asking “Spatula” for forgiveness. Again we could see this as an internal battle SpongeBob most likely have that he himself worries about being replaced and sorta acts the scenario out. I know this (and the other episodes) is played for laughs, but I’m making this deeper than it should because I like him to have depth dammit!

“Boatie” comes from SpongeBob’s loneliness of everyone leaving town and once again starts to believe the boat has it out for him while he talks to a puppet of Patrick, again most likely acting out a scenario he most likely fears will happen to him one day. I could also go on about the whole “National No Spongebob Day” subplot at the end of that episode, but that would end up being a rant…

Heck even Bubble Buddy plays into this since SpongeBob created him out of loneliness due to all his friends being busy (before it’s revealed that the bubble is alive).

And then there’s “Patty”. He becomes infatuated with a krabby patty and I think the little teasing comments from Squidward about it triggered the attachment into an obsession from SpongeBob. Because if we once again go by the one comment in the episode “The Chaperone” where he never had a date to prom, it’s most likely he never dated in general.

He wants to feel wanted, but doesn’t know how to get it without it backfiring.

Once getting closer to SpongeBob, Coraline catches on right away that SpongeBob goes to desperate measures to make her happy, which makes her uncomfortable. To her SpongeBob is more mature in her eyes since he has more life experiences than her and she’s the only one who treats him with respect because of it, so once noticing his people pleasing nature, she tries to step in out of concern. Because he doesn’t need to change for her, she already accepts him as is. Which of course throws SpongeBob out of loop because this is what he always does, he has to help others however he can, and he recognizes Coraline’s struggles and wants to help her too. Eventually the pair starts to get frustrated by each other due to this, not realizing that they are both not only forcing themselves out of their comfort zones, but also growing as people from their impact on one another. Causing them both for the first time in their lives to “grow up” and accept being different.

[court-of-constellations]

some analysis of starlit i and @theend1shere did yesterday, edited a bit for clarity.

(it's a little long so i put it under the cut)

the most interesting part about their relationship is how they view each other and their relationship and how that ties into how they view themselves.

(please note that this is all Our Personal Interpretation)

adam views eve as a saint of sorts. in his mind, she can't do anything wrong, because he's done so many terrible things and obviously she's so much better than him. he puts her up on this pedestal and justifies any flaws she has as either completely justified because of x reason or being his fault because he "corrupted" her somehow.

to him, she's one of the only good things in the world, the thought of seeing her again is what makes his life worth living, and he's terrified of losing her. he'd understand if she hated him, of course he would, why wouldn't she, but if eve ever actually chose to leave adam, it'd destroy him. as much as he likes to pretend he'd let her go, deep down he knows he wouldn't- he'd do anything to keep her by his side because, fundamentally, he's a very selfish person.

eve, on the other hand, has the opposite view in a way. she's not worried about losing adam, because she has complete confidence that he loves her. why wouldn't he? He's her prince, her other half, he was made for her. they're perfect for each other, they were destined to be together.

she downplays and denies and justifies anything that doesn't fit with her version of him because she can't bear to live in a world where he *isn't* the perfect prince she's always seen him as. she can't conceive of any world where he doesn't belong to her, because doesn't she deserve this? Doesn't she deserve to be happy with someone who understands her and loves her more than anything? isn't this the way it's supposed to be?

if he ever did try to leave her, she'd dismiss it as him just messing around or simply wanting to try something else, and probably proceed to manipulate him into staying with her.

they're fucked up in a way that could only work with each other and we can even see it in canon with margarita and kaspar!!! margarita has the same denial as eve but with someone who's not nearly as fitting for her as adam and who takes complete advantage of her trust.

as for adam, we can see the same with his desperation to see eve again. He spends years looking for her and gets to the point of sacrificing himself for a being that isn't even her (aka motc) because it's as close as he thinks he'll get to having her back, since her actual soul is still stuck as a part of ma.

because, without eve, he is nothing. he needs her to feel whole, and that small reminiscence of her that he can find is as close as he thinks he can get to being whole again, so he must protect it.

and also (if you see kyle as adam) him with michaela!! he's trying his best but he just Can't Accept that she's not into him. he genuinely does care for her and wants the best for her, but there's a disconnect there, one that, even if she'd lived, can't be overcome. he has this mindset that they're perfect for one another, that he just needs to wait and she'll accept her feelings for him eventually, and it all makes so much sense if he's adam.

tldr: adam has a horrible case of self-loathing, eve is drowning in denial, and their issues play into each other so perfectly that they'd be ten times worse with literally anyone else.

[elsa-fogen]

Oh, Husk and Alastor?

Their dynamic is also pretty interesting, they kinda feel like two people who everyone thinks gets along great and are the best of friends. While in reality their friendship is fueled but a fire born from their hatred. They just have many decent moments and have a easy time understanding each other, through they often use that information to serve a selfish endeavor.

Like Alastor would mess with Husk, tease him and Husk would tell Al to get his act together so that he(Husk) doesn't have to deal with some sort of fallout (ref. when Mimzy comes by)

In general, I feel like they do get along really well, but they are in no way friends. Kinda like how you can get along well with your boss, but wouldn't really consider them a friend. And you wouldn't really want them to involve themselves in your life, but that doesn't stop Alastor. (Social conversions? What's that)

This also makes me curious, wonder what kind of dynamic Husk has with Rosie, or rather, how do you think Rosie sees Husk? Just like a pet Alastor has? Or does she actually see the person that is there? (Leaning more towards her not really seeing Husk more than a errand boy or pet of Alastor)

Though it would be fun if the first time Husk meet Rosie he thought that she might actually be willing to help him because she gives of the energy of being a very kind person around people she cares about (aka Alastor). So he tries to talk to her without Alastor present and he finally understands how they get along so well, they are both the same kind of crazy ᵔᵜᵔ

So, um- what are your thoughts on the dynamic between Alastor and Husk?

HEEEHEHHE YOU GOT ME A REASON TO TALK ABOUT MY FRESH HEADCANON ABOUT THEIR RELATIONSHIPS

OKAY SO!!

I saw a theory that Husk had children when he was alive. Keep that in mind, it's a secret tool we wanna use later

So, little bit about Alastor. He is not the guy who owns many souls. In fact, he doesn't own any (well... i have some headcanons, but it's for another time). The only soul he has is Niffty, and she's... she's whole another level.

So one day Alastor get's Husk's soul in posession and he has no idea what to do with him. Their contract is basically "you'll have to do anything i order you" but it doesn't set any boundaries for Husk. So he can insult Alastor, argue with him and so on. The only thing he cant is to try to kill Alastor, but it's obvious.

So, Alastor's just... drags him around, and Husk has to just be there all the time, and watch Alastor do stupid shit without thinking, being manipulated by Mimzy into some shenanigans and so on, because he's too powerful, kinda don't afraid of anything and little bit unhinged. And Husk is trying to be that voice of sanity for Alastor (and maybe Niffty). Like in canon, he tries to warn Alastor about Mimzy nd at some point seems genuinely worried about him. Just a bit. And also, in that scene in final song, when Alastor appears again, Husk doesn't seem happy but still goes for group hug.

I think he sees Alastor as a child he has to babysit, but the child is so spoiled, that he doesn't give a shit about his warnings. Maybe Al reminds him of his own children at some degree. And so Husk is attached to Alastor in some weird unhealthy way, he cares about him and tries to protect, even if it pointless.

The worst part of it is that Alastor doesn't see him more than funny fluffy cat-guy-pet. He almost never takes him seriously and doesn't listen to what he says. So Husk may try to reach out to Rosie, to make her to reason with Alastor. But she's basiclly "i could fix him, but whatever is wrong with him is way funnier". I think she listens to Husk's worries about another Alastor's scheme, but she also trusts Alastor? I mean, she belives that he'll be fine. But if something seems to dangerous, she can agree and talk to Alastor.

After all, Husk was an overlord, and i think Rosie could know him before he made a deal with Alastor. So, i think she doesn't think of Husk as just Al's pet, she knows who he is. After all, not every sinner can become an overlord. But still,

So, last thing. I saw that one comic where after episode 5 Alastor admits that Husk was right about Mimzy and i really love this thought. I think Alastor also likes Husk's presence at some degree. Maybe they could build something healtier, maybe Alastor, after losing part of his powers, would listen to Husk more. But still it's all fucked up while Alastor owns his soul.

And also, i'd really love to see something of just Alastor, Husk and Niffty getting into some shenanigans together, this would be so much fun. Al and Niff who are just 2 unhinged gremlins and Husk who's done with their shit, but still cares about them and can't just leave, and it's not because of the deal. Like i imagine when husk is trying to reason with Alastor that he's about do something stupid and dangerous and Alastor's like well i don't force you to follow us this time, but Husk still goes with them because who else would watch after these two idiots?

So i think, i get your point about them!

[egg-emperor]

You can get genuine pure wholesome family stuff out of almost every other Robotnik that works and is supported and shown in canon, Gerald, Maria, Sage, etc

There's a demand for the same to also apply to Eggman but it's really interesting and fun that he's the downright evil and toxic asshole of the family instead, including towards other members

Examples include:

Feeling contempt and jealousy towards other members if he feels they get more and undeserved attention compared to his self-centered, egotistical attention whoring ass (Maria),

Feeling entitled to everything they owned, will defile it all for selfish purposes while saying it's his time now, and will put himself above them when he can (Gerald),

Or having a twisted conditional, manipulative, self centered self serving relationship all formed by his personal benefit and bragging rights, as long as they're loyal and efficient and do exactly what he wants (Sage)

And if you want to get technical with Shadow due to their connections (but neither see each other as family), he's possessive over him as another creation of his grandfather's and the one who released then rescued him, treats him as his property to use for selfish personal gain,

and will lie, manipulate, and gaslight him to try to accomplish that

It's always selfish, twisted, and toxic when it comes to Eggman even when it comes to family 💜🥰

And yes, he does have more postive feelings and even an amount of respect for most of these members and that makes it even more amusing and interesting that he's still a giant ass to them too. Plus there's always an overlap with those positive feelings being formed from the self-centered perspective of what it means for him to be related to them as he puts himself above them and uses them for bragging rights and their existence or posessions for selfish gain lol

I love how the last true Robotnik family member by blood that we know of in the present day is the biggest asshole and the least genuinely selflessly respectful, loving, wholesome, and good-hearted person at any point in his life of them all. They bring love, light, and benefits to the world while Eggman brings, threat, destruction, and oppression through and through

It's something quite tragic to associate Eggman with, without a forced sad backstory or OOC desire to avenge those in his family that tragically died. It's in how he doesn't respect their legacy unless it's for self-centered, self beneficial purposes or bragging rights and was a vile evil, power hungry person with selfish, self-centred, and greedy intentions from the beginning

It's tragic for everyone but Eggman himself, who is absolutely loving being the evil bastard of the family who puts himself above them all XD

[princessjojo-x]

Libra Placements

💝 although sister signs sit oppositely, they share many similarities. libra is the sign of partnerships & it’s notorious for collaboration. but it holds the potential to be just as selfish as it’s counterpart. the truth is… libra generates harmony for himself & he’ll do anything to have it, even if it means chaos for others. consequently, he wears peace as a mask, charms his way out of accountability & plays both sides to his advantage.

💝 another similarity to aries is his player reputation. he adores romantic attention even more than leo. he could feel zero attraction to you, yet he’ll still flirt with you, out of boredom or just for fun. since he’s naturally charming, he’ll make you feel so special, despite it usually being completely in-genuine. he’ll say the most heart warming things to you, whilst saying the exact same things to five other women. he’ll lead you to believe he’s in love with you, just to leave you for the cutie next door. he leaves behind a trail of shattered trust & broken bonds, despite his extreme desire to be liked & admired by everyone.

💝 he may have an elitist/opportunistic mindset, treating people based on an unspoken social hierarchy. he’ll be loyal for as long as he sees benefit from associating with you. as soon as he doesn’t *need* you anymore he’ll be elusive & flighty af, effortlessly ghosting with no remorse.

💝 he’s definitely the master of illusion, especially if paired with scorpio/virgo placements, which would amplify his deception & manipulation. he’s able to mold himself into whatever version is most appealing in the most. he notices what makes others likeable & adopts those traits for himself. he’s a major copycat, mirroring others personas & styles.

💝 it’s likely he’s always had strong female influence surrounding him, meaning he respects & understands women better than most, which heighten his ability to charm their socks off.

💝 he’s deeply in tune with his feminine energy, which isn’t always a bad thing, but it does influence his personality- he’s a pretty boy & he knows it, he can be really good with kids, he may be very stylish & creative, he may be gay to some extent, he has a strong tendency to gossip.

💝 although he avoids conflict at all costs, he does eventually explode, again reflecting the tendencies of his fiery sister. but aries burns out & moves on quickly, whilst libra is resentful & petty asf.

💝 he loves receiving pity from others so he purposefully wallows in his sadness.

[sepublic]

            ���You assume Belos’ goal comes from a genuine place. But that man doesn’t care about anything but his need to be the hero in his own delusion, and because of that, he fears what he can’t control.”

         I think of this line in the context of the previous episode being For the Future, and how the Titan’s description of Belos is meant to contrast with who Luz is as a person. Because in FtF’s climax, Camila has a breakthrough with Luz regarding her self-loathing for mistakes and things that frankly were out of her control, that Luz shouldn’t blame herself for; As Camila reminds her daughter, mistakes happen sometimes. That’s okay. And we try to prevent bad things from happening…

         But in Camila’s case especially, that attempt to control things to protect her daughter just alienated Luz, hurt her deeply. Likewise, Luz’s hero complex evolves over the course of the series… It becomes less openly glamorous and more ‘humble’, but in a way it still exists. When Luz blames herself for her friends being separated from their parents even though that wasn’t even her call, it’s because she thinks she’s the hero. When she blames herself for helping Philip, it’s because Luz is the hero. When Luz, a freaking teenager, can’t help Eda against this genocidal dictatorship, it’s because Luz is the hero and she’s failed.

         Luz still has this unhealthy expectation of herself; Where she’s supposed to actively repent for her past selfishness and mistakes by fixing everything. She’s supposed to be the friend who takes the burden for others, who doesn’t saddle them with her own issues. Luz is supposed to help Eda with her curse, and later with her family situation with Gwen. Luz is trying to direct her attention outwards, towards others, but there’s ultimately this unintentionally self-centered approach where if bad things happen, it’s a reflection on Luz as a person, and she is basically the only who can determine what happens, the input of others ignored.

         That leads to risky maneuvers, like when Luz attempts to take Hunter's place against Belos at the skull, or hides the truth to keep the others from worrying. It’s this misguided desire to be the self-sacrificial martyr, another kind of hero. It’s this need to feel like Luz is in control; That she CAN fix things on her own, that she CAN help, and she COULD have done something, meaning if things go wrong regardless, it’s Luz’s fault.

         It’s a double-edged sword of claiming autonomy, because it means Luz refuses to blame outside factors for her failures, it’s all on her. It’s comforting in its own way to think she could’ve done something better, because it means Luz can do better next time, right? It means Luz doesn’t have to worry about the uncertainty of the future if she just tries hard enough, correct?

         But Camila has to remind her daughter that you can try your best and still fail. You’re still human (for lack of a better term), just as Willow is when she isn’t able to keep everything going smoothly in that same episode. And that’s alright; You can take responsibility, but you can’t overcompensate and consider yourself the ‘hero’ in charge of everyone’s wellbeing. Which brings me back to that point about the Titan summarizing the differences between Luz and Belos, what makes one good and the other bad, so to speak;

         Belos fears what he can’t control, because he needs to be the hero who controls everything and can accomplish whatever he wants; Look how much he thrives on having control over people, manipulating them, adapting to a situation, it makes him feel clever and superior. But Luz, while she afraid for a bit… Thanks to her mother, she’s finally begun to accept that she can’t control things. Luz isn’t the perfect hero, she needs the help of others. She’ll make mistakes, or even make no mistakes and still lose! Luz can’t do everything to look after her mother or vice-versa, you have to let people do their own thing, and that also includes herself.

         Luz does legitimately care about others; She’ll consider other points of view, like she did when showing sympathy to Amity early in their interactions. Luz can reevaluate what she does because it’s about doing right, not being right, even if it might not be as glamorous. Contrast that with Belos, who refuses to admit that he could’ve made the wrong call about witches and his brother, because then he’s not the hero.

         And his need to be right matters more than helping people, which is why Belos sacrifices his own brother rather than letting go of that narrative of himself as the one saving humanity. If he were just misguided, he’d have eventually accepted there was nothing to worry about (Philip is very perceptive, he can tell), but Belos didn’t because that meant no longer being the hero, and he knew his priorities when pushed to choose only one. A classic case of bias distorting reasonable analysis.

         They both wanted to be the hero, and there’s nothing inherently wrong with that; After all, Eda specifies at the end of Witches before Wizards that you can still healthily engage with reality, while also working to achieve your dreams. That’s how Luz’s character arc ends, too; She gets to become the hero she wanted to be, while still engaging with the people and world around her and not becoming entitled or arrogant.

         There’s nothing wrong with Luz wanting things for herself, nothing wrong with Luz thinking about or prioritizing herself, despite what her self-loathing claims. Despite her decision to stay in the human world because choosing a place she’s happy is a mistake that hurt her mother. But you have to keep other people in mind… You have to critically examine and ask yourself; Is it really about helping others and making sure all is okay, or is it simply the satisfaction of being the savior who corrects these NPCs, and wants an evil to campaign against? Which will you prioritize? This is especially relevant in progressive circles, which fits given TOH’s politics.

         Likewise, you gotta remember yourself, too. You don’t have to be 100% pure and selfless in your motives when helping people, it’s okay to want to be loved in return. You don’t have to necessarily choose between others and yourself, and Luz doesn’t have to choose between both worlds, or what kind of magic she uses, her type of Palisman, etc.

[datastate]

steeples my hands. hello all. i'm thinking about asunaro's perception of maple again

...& it's honestly a bit funny how hiyori's supremely fucked up the majority of his relationships with the other asu-agents simply through his manipulation of maple - especially as, within asunaro, artificial intelligence is commonly seen as a reflection of humanity, if not human in their own right (which they try to prove through the death game)

{ MEISTER }

LISTEN... mr. chidouin's generally shown to be very loving and affectionate (arguably overly so) with sara (and even kai!), i cannot believe he doesn't feel similarly with mrs. chidouin. whatever issues they share, i'm firmly of the belief that he insists on the idea he's doing the best for his family because he so openly and genuinely loves them and wishes for their success, or to otherwise mean something in the grand scheme of asunaro. seeing one's love be programmed in and repeatedly manipulated/discarded like this, beyond that of its intended gimmick, is an immensely uncomfortable situation. don't get me wrong, mr. chidouin has indubitably manipulated kai and imposes on sara. however, he imagines for kai that it is worth the harm because it's cultivated a better life for him on the whole. he's groomed them into these set roles out of care, with the thought they have the strength to carry these mantles in this recreation of the hades incident - but hiyori does not care for maple's place in the death game. the only reason hiyori interacts with maple at all, this outdated iteration of dolls, is due to his own fear. mr. chidouin cannot sympathize with this. he had accepted kai into the family fully-aware of the fact that if kai discovered his true identity, he would surely resent or kill him - he's an assassin still! - but he was more than willing to put his life on the line if it meant he could provide a better ending for the satous who had survived the assassin's trial... and, eventually, he wanted to know kai on a much more personal level. kai, like maple, was built for the ultimatum - but kai was granted love where maple was continuously denied it. what love she held was utilized as a barrier rather than an emotion worth actually fostering. there would be no betrayal in 'crossing that line' of killing hiyori, nothing in it to make it a fault of hers. unlike mr. chidouin's peace with the knowledge his leverage over kai is fragile, hiyori would die an uneventful death at maple's hand if she finally wrangled free of his control. there is nothing honorable in that, and his selfishness brings only disgrace to the ultimatum.

{ EMIRI HARAI }

seeing how easily someone's emotions can be toyed with on a surface level, enough so to dissuade their original personality, does not inspire confidence, to say the least! & definitely not after being faced with grieving her lover. if she did join asunaro in the hopes of reviving him, the sight of this completely destroys that hope; she bears firsthand the proof that love is only something to be manipulated by those in power in asunaro. she doesn't even have the work she was once so proud of - what she has left of herself are... these scattered pieces that were incompatible when moving from civilian life into asunaro's clutches. where, if you peer too close, you'd inevitably find a weakness; which is implied to be the cause of this persona of hers. never allowing anyone near enough to recognize what lays beneath, otherwise she'll be discarded just the same because... she, like mr. chidouin, did have a loving relationship. and seeing the destruction of her own reflected in another innocent person who is unable/unaware of the utter grasp asunaro has on her is repulsive; regardless of her personal beliefs on whether or not AIs are "human enough" - to program one is to put in faith that they are. to then go so far as to rid the choices crucial to being human... hits a bit too close to home, aha.

{ MICHIRU NAMIDA }

as one who is evidently very firm in her belief that her creations are perfect & that AIs are practically interchangeable with humans, i'm sure her opinions on hiyori's treatment of maple are. less than ideal for Workplace Civilty. to say nothing of the implied idea that they work closely together with AI development (hiyori specifically crediting any of ranger's success to michiru's ability alone) and thus michiru has had personal contact with maple to see the effects of hiyori's treatment... michiru's already spent much of her life feeling suppressed. asunaro recognized she was unable to fully flourish in her previous workplace and offered her a place where she could do away with ethics in the chase of something larger than her, in the name of humanity - but seeing what hiyori's imposed upon maple just drags back all of those unwelcome feelings. it's horrifying - though she knows she can't speak on it because she doesn't have seniority on the maple project, nor does she have a place on floors four/five where this gimmick would take place. the most she can do in the meanwhile is comfort maple. indulge that humanity where hiyori refutes it. but even if she comforts maple, she cannot remove that tie to hiyori keeping her subdued. she feels terribly complicit. michiru particularly loves the AI creations because they resemble the best of humanity in her eyes; for hiyori to discard maple like this begs the question of his dedication to asunaro's projects at all, not to mention it seems needlessly cruel. he's neglecting her without even taking interest in the pain she endures at his behest - there's hardly any reason. and that's the worst of it. michiru, as most asunaro does, believes in the idea of 'the ends must justify the means' -- and in maple's case, hiyori lacks that vital rule.

{ GASHU SATOU }

it's... complicated. gashu resents the hiyoris on the idea that their methodology is reprehensible, having been victim to it himself, and yet recognizes the necessity of having a department of asunaro dedicated to extortion to keep public relations stable. of course, this means their pride is unfortunately not without basis. for their work, they are rewarded, and maple is the piteous pinnacle of that. gashu has created ranger in the hopes of replicating the children he wished to save, whereas maple's creation has no such purpose beyond the implied "let's see how incorporating emotions will work for future artificial intelligence" - a stepping stone in something larger, rather than a project in its own right. but while she could've been laid to rest once their technology moved forward, sou hiyori had the power to deny her that. he forces a role upon her for the death game without accepting the burden that entails - it's irresponsible and a clear indication of his assumption that the world must fall in line with his every whim. hiyori demands maple accept her fate in the ultimatum so he needn't accept his own death; never need experience that utter lack of control he exercises freely over others. to gashu, hiyori does present the worst vices of his family. he almost pities him. almost.

{ RIO RANGER }

ranger and maple have fought over their respective favored person. i know this to be true. maple points out that gashu's intentions aren't entirely in rio's favor, instead the shadows lingering in his creation. maple recognizes the emotional weight behind some of the things he says to ranger where rio is quite literally unable to comprehend them. she will critique gashu's desire to constantly have rio 'prove' himself to his creator (...even as she attempts to 'prove' herself to hiyori, it's easier to recognize in another) -- meanwhile, rio gets annoyed with maple and how content she appears with her current programming, with letting hiyori crush her personality in favor of giving her something tantalizingly out of reach: a new feeling. the dolls endure a monochrome world unless they have something to incite those feelings. maple is more fortunate than ranger in this sense, but is still left with the high that only hiyori can grant her. ...and rio gets angry. it's aggravation on her behalf, but he doesn't have the capacity to understand that, instead blaming it on the idea she's incompetent and far too reliant on humanity. but even if he doesn't share the appeal of humanity, he doesn't only use that as a point in their arguments - rather demanding to know that if that's what she wants, then why the fuck are you letting that asshole stifle who you are? letting him control your every move? but of course, sometimes after an argument with maple, he's left irritated with hiyori. even if he can't recognize why, the reality of the matter is that maple wasn't the true source of his anger. hiyori also shares a fascination with humanity which ranger feels he's infected maple with, to flaunt the unachievable to her as justification for why she'll never be enough for him. ranger initiates these loaded conversations to try to get maple to learn to fight back for herself instead of his sake. and sure, rio doesn't fight gashu, but that's out of respect. instead, maple's become so... blasé about her treatment, and is far too hopeful that there's anything she can do to have hiyori's eyes on her alone. maple's already proven herself to ranger and earned some semblance of respect (in physical capability + rio's... somewhat envious of her larger range of emotion, though he mostly mirrors the curiosity he knows michiru & gashu use when he asks). but, to rio, she'll never be 'enough' to anyone if she's not allowed to accept that she's a doll who is capable of so much more than he's limited her program to; she doesn't have to remain stagnant and subservient to be something worthwhile. rio's changed, and his father still praises him. if hiyori's worth half the shit he spits, he'll do the same for her. the majority of this is speculation, admittedly. but i like to think rio's always felt defensive over the dolls; it's just that the ways he does are. difficult to recognize. with the limiter on his emotions. there's an inherent understanding there.

[writermask-0807-backupblog]

A/N: for @nunezs-stuff who requested this! I sincerely hope that I’ve done your request justice, and apologies for the delay. There might a few mistakes since this is my first time writing yandere. And I also sort of may not have met your OC’s personality quirks, but hey, I tried. Hope you enjoy! 

Warnings: probs super Cringe cus it’s my first writing yandere, definitely ooc Genya (ngl he sounds like Bakugou 😭), possessiveness, kidnapping, yandere behavior, different forms manipulation, mentions of being locked inside a house, chained, etc etc, you know the gist. 

When he first meets you at the selection exams, Genya finds you insignificant, another hopeful face in a sea of others- an obstacle in his path. 

Then that indifference to your existence turns into annoyance because you’re like a mosquito he can’t crush, constantly on his heels and by his side, chattering on and on about one whimsical thing or the other, and although he’s made it sure that you know he “doesn’t want your stupid friendship goddamnit!” you just smile gently in response, undeterred by his anger. 

Still, for some reason, you stick by his side through thick and thin despite his insults and his unwarranted anger and his rough edges, and slowly, the annoyance turns into expectation.

As slow as it is, Genya begins to expect your constant  presence by his side, he begins to expect the shape of your mouth curving into a smile just for him, and he, begrudgingly, begins to accept it. 

Then the acceptance begins to swell into something more, something like attachment and something else he can’t yet discern. 

You begin to make him feel… different.

You with that soft voice and meek eyes, you with that gentle touch and saccharine sweet smile that makes his heart wrench for someone reason, and the first thing Genya wonders is, is he sick? 

The answer is yes, yes he is. Lovesick for you, that is. 

Genya doesn’t accept it, at first, doesn’t want to ruin what he already has with you, but he knows that these feelings won’t go away either. 

So he shows his love for you in subtle ways. 

Whenever Genya sees something you’d deem cute, you’d find it by your bedside table by the next morning, and you know it’s him, judging by the furious red dusting his cheeks and ears when you next see him, and you wisely decide not to poke him about it, so instead you just grin, brighter than before. 

He’ll share his food with you if he knows you skipped a meal, and whenever you’re feeling down, he’ll try his best to cheer you up, so “quit sulkin` around!” 

And although he looks disinterested to any outsiders, Genya makes sure to hang onto your every word as you talk, even though it’s probably about cute, pink things you like or some other airy topic he probably won’t understand much. 

And then the lovesickness bleeds into something unhealthily darker. 

Genya genuinely believes you’re not something he deserves, but he’s selfish, and he wants to keep you for himself, because he knows good things in his life are fickle, and never last long. 

So when he sees you chatting with Tanjiro, with that same soft, tender smile that’s meant only for him, Genya decides that while he’s not worthy of you, nobody really is. 

Nobody but him are allowed to see you. To touch you. Nobody but him are allowed to see the way you smile, or hear the sound of your laughter. 

You are his, and his alone, so he wards off anyone else who wants to talk you, all bared teeth and jagged scars and growling voice. 

See, since it’s not an if when you’ll get into fights about his possessiveness, and rather a when, he’ll weasel his way out of it by manipulating you in whatever way he can. 

He will lie, guilt-trip, gaslight you and victimize himself, and since Genya is quite insecure- in himself, in your relationship, half of it is not even a lie. 

He’ll also probably use his guilt about the whole Sanemi incident to convince you be with him. 

And that’s not even the worst of it. 

Since you’re both demon slayers, and your soft-spoken demeanor makes him think you’re a little bit weaker than the average slayer, he’ll try to get you to quit. 

And when that doesn’t work, and you get injured in a mission, Genya takes it upon himself to, in his mind, protect you. 

(He knows you won’t willingly quit the corps so he’ll knock you out if he has to, and keeps you in a house he’s made his own, just for this reason only.)

You’re granted the freedom to do whatever you want to  inside the house. 

Since he doesn’t have any estates like the Hashiras, he will take you outside with him by his side so you won’t be able to escape, his hand resting on your lower back or on your arm, a reminder that you’ll never be able to escape, not with him around. 

And, well, if he finds anyone else trying to help you escape…

He’ll make sure they’re not around to help you out a second time. 

Overall, you have no chance to escape, because he’s barred the windows, made sure to lock all the doors in locks strong and heavy enough for you to not be able to break. 

Hell, he’s even chained you inside your room, just for an extra measure. 

This is all to ensure that, you’ll be by Genya’s side forever. 

“I love you, I love you, I love you, goddamnit! Why can’t you understand that?! This is all for you. This is all for you, so why are you looking at me like that?!” 

FIN-

[themostforgottengirlintownn]

let’s say I might get cancelled for this and let’s say I don’t give a damn :3

my opinions on RTC characters

Ocean: I’m gonna be nice about her, I fucking despise ocean in every way possible. She’s such a bitch to everyone because she wants to be the best, she abelist toward Ricky, she’s homophobic towards Noel, she “made fun” of Mischa’s beliefs in Ukraine. Don’t believe in his girlfriend because it was an online girlfriend, hated Jane infill after her song but still wanted to get voted to go back, she’s a selfish, narcissistic, manipulative, bitch. I can understand if you like her but don’t ever make me like her.

Constance: I absolutely love and adore Constance, she didn’t deserve anything that happened to her. She’s was such a nice person and took all the abuse from ocean and for what? A horrible, depressing life? Her parents made her think that living, working and dying was all life was about, and it isn’t. The she basically got sa’d but a thirty year old before she died. Like, yes she went into the bathroom with him but she never wanted that shit to happen to her! She was doing because she thought she had to do it and that carnie probably lured her into it. She never deserved anything but happiness in her life and everyone ruined that.

Noel: I also feel bad for him (in some productions he’s more insecure than angry/sarcastic but I’m going for both here) I related to him in so many ways, do I want to be a hooker? No, do I have dreams of running way, do I want to runaway from my dead end town because my life sucks, nothing ever makes me happy, my life is horrible, I can’t be myself, and I just wish I could be someone else? Yes. He got shut down from his mother because of where he lived and he never got to be his true self, he was desperate to leave his town and so am I. He never deserved anything that happened to him either, Idc, I’m his number one defender.

Mischa: another one I feel horrible for. One; Mischa lost his mother at a young age and she was the only person to care for, two; he moved to a town with people he didn’t know, and he lived in a town named after what killed his own mother, three; his parents neglected him, only fed him baby food, and cried each time they saw him when they literally could’ve adopted another child to have a young one and put Mischa back. Four; he had to be put in a choir that he didn’t want to. Five; he finally got something good in his life, Talia, he genuinely loved her, he finally found someone to make him happy then he fucking died and couldn’t seen her, he saved up whatever he could to go to Ukraine to see her and be happy and normal again, then he died.

Ricky: OMG I could yap and yap and yap about my poor Ricky :(. So basically he got diagnosed at a young age where he was told he was going to die any day, he lived until he was seventeen and then he died because a roller coaster, but he had no friends, everyone ignored him, he couldn’t speak, he played alone, he knew her was eventually going to die one day anyway so he just dealt with it? Bro 😭 I feel so bad for him. He had such a horrible life like everyone, yet he was the ignored one because he couldn’t speak and he was a bit different from the others? No one should have to go through what Ricky did, Ricky didn’t deserve the life he had, Ricky deserved better, but at least in the afterlife they finally accepted him and he got the life he deserved when he died, yet that’s sad that just because you're “different” you get ignored until you die. I had this friend, she was disabled like Ricky, she had something wrong with her and everyone but me and like another person ignored her/made fun of her, she died because the hospital couldn’t treat it and suddenly everyone started caring, “oh she was so nice” mf you bullied her because she was in a wheelchair!

Jane- again someone I’m gonna yap about, I am just like Jane, trust. She was so unknown when she was alive, no one payed attention to her, no one cared for her, and she died, her parents never claimed her body and she was left a ‘Jane Doe’ she wasn’t able to be known like the rest were. She wasn’t able to have a life like the rest were, she died being alone and unknown. When she was around the choir they were scared of her. She just wanted to know who she was, she wanted a life too, she wanted to be remembered too, she wanted friends too. And that’s why I hate ocean, she’s rude to a girl who no one knows and who no one cared about. She was left alone to die, everyone else had family and friends (besides Mischa but this is about Jane) she was then left to be unknown and ‘scary’ no one found her head, or no one cared to look.

Now the reason I did this, I’ve learned that being in the RTC fandom is not easy, if you don’t believe in Nischa, PerfectDolls you aren’t valid, if you hate ocean, you aren’t valid. But people can have their own opinions and these are mine. Don’t hate me. You might not think about these characters the way I do and that’s perfectly fine, if you like ocean, that’s cool. I’m not going to hate on your opinions.

[phoenix-is-the-hottest-thing]

Was Vita suddenly more interested in Seele than the others because she witnessed Seele saving her when they first met?

I don't know for sure! It could be that, or it could be because she read her mind and found her interesting. Remember, she's the narrator when they meet, so even if she was still physically very weak, she had omniscience to work with. She planted herself on their path to start following them around (engineered meet-cute??)

She does emphasize how cool Seele was, claiming she must have looked like an idiot but couldn't stop staring in awe, so it could be part regular physical attraction, doesn't have to be 100% deep psychological stuff.

THAT SAID...

My personal interpretation, especially based on their conversation in chapter 38, is that she likes Seele so much because Seele is set up as a paragon, someone who's unfailingly kind and determined to stay that way. Even in a battle to the death against someone who just annihilated an entire world, with her friends in it, she refuses to use her most destructive powers and gives Vita multiple chances to back down. That takes some balls ya know?

Further character analysis under the cut:

In that same ch38 conversation, Vita backhandedly tries to claim Seele must be sheltered to behave this way, that Seele must be secretly scared now that she's in REAL trouble, but she's firmly denied because Seele's determination is born of experience overcoming hardship. This unsettles Vita. Seele's faith that they can save this "hometown" after Vita has lost it over and over, unsettles Vita.

(We now know that she's actually lost her genuine "hometown", Phosphorus, EIGHT times to Sa's maniacal behavior. I'd even say Phosphorus and Salt Snow are quite similar in the innocence of their citizens, the peaceful atmosphere, the worship of a central religious figure, being threatened by Sa destroying it... and to make matters worse, it seems Hua's arc happens concurrently, so maybe Phosphorus is already in danger while Vita's in Salt Snow..! Man she's going through it.)

Vita lowered her eyes, not knowing whether to be nostalgic or uneasy. (...)

...No, in any case, she was not another "Vita". Her name is "Seele"…just like "Vita", not one syllable more, not one syllable less.

The uneasiness that was wrapped up in fate had nothing to do with the other person.

This bit makes me wonder whether Vita sees someone she once wanted to be in Seele. Failed to be. Would have liked to be. After all, she's not once succeeded in saving anyone, and unlike Seele, she's got quite the rotten personality after all— she admits it herself.

Hua: Why didn't you tell me about this before? Vita: Because I'm a bad, selfish woman. Hua: ? Vita: Hmm… Do you really want me to be more specific? I am… Vita: …I'm always trying to maximize my own interests, so I'm completely helpless when it comes to nice people like you and Seele.

Vita's claims that she's not nice, that she's a selfish villain and owns it, but she doesn't like it, and she's not completely sincere when she claims to be, either. At the end of chapter 39 she tells Seele she's irredeemable and won't even feel guilt because no one died this time, but that implies she does feel remorse for all the terrible hurt she's been in the middle of, yeah?

So, sure, she spends her time faking her personality and manipulating people, but she's not happy about it. One of the secret scenes in chapter 40 has her being extremely bothered by Marah telling her she's similar to Sa:

I hate repetitive work. Yes, the emphasis is on “repetitive”, not “work”.

Due to the nature of my work, the second I open my eyes, I have to be an outgoing, friendly girl who’s equally shrewd and oblivious.

As for why I need to act like that, who knows? Everyone just can’t resist that type of woman… Or, perhaps that kind of woman is disarming?

Being amiable means that we can get along well without any pressure, and the hint of shrewdness gives me a nice veil of mystery. As for being oblivious… Being oblivious makes a flawless person more adorable. Do you understand?

Undeniably, I’m really in my element at work with such a personality. But Marah said that I’m like “them”… The one from before. Haha… do we resemble each other though? Are those traits part of my nurture? Or, are they actually part of “our” nature? Among countless conversations, I tried to search for the answer to this question.

I listened to their complaints patiently, answered their questions sincerely, gave them hugs when they needed consolation, offered them gifts when they finally grew, and in the end, became their friend.

And that is what I hate the most!

I think she's seriously concerned about what she might do if left on her own. In chapter 41 she has this conversation with Hua:

Vita: What does tens of thousands of years of life feel like to you now? (...) Vita: Then… what if you are a hopeless villain? Vita: Think about it, since your meaning is irrelevant… if you plan to do something bad, no one can stop you? Hua: At one time it did seem possible. But not now. Vita: ..Because you have a "different" friend? Life is as long as you, and ability is as powerful as you? Hua: Heh… don't you know everything. Vita: …Yeah, I can imagine. Vita: (It's just… that doesn't suit me at all …… )

She's not asking for hypotheticals about how Sa could have gone better, she's talking about herself. Of course she doesn't say why it doesn't suit her, but I believe her self-perception as a bad person is pretty telling. How could someone like her find a suitable friend to hold her back?

(It's unclear when in the Salt Snow timeline this conversation happens besides that she already knows Seele and watched Senti fight at least once, but it's probably still before the final fight, her mood would change noticeably if she was finally freed and she's very withdrawn and bitter when Sa descends.

Also, earlier she notes that saying Sa's name too many times or doing things Sa doesn't like too much could alert her, so the telepathic link is probably still intact.

Just my guesses though.)

Vita obviously doesn't know many people with a lifespan comparable to hers, and while her power likely still varies with whatever Sa lets her have at this point, her manipulative side is a threat in its own right. Pretty difficult to find a friend who could overcome that and voluntarily stick around to boot!

Seele, though, with her unfailingly kind personality and sharp enough eye to see through Vita's lies? Especially once she's become a Herrscher? (Interestingly Vita calls Seele our Herrscher heh)

Seele is exactly this kind of impossibly good person she needs around to balance out her darkness.

At the end of chapter 39, Vita humbly calls Seele "my friend, if you'll allow me to call you that"— I think this conversation above, about Hua's friend who she can trust to keep her in line, is meant to echo that moment.

Additionally, I'm fairly certain the reason she stuck around to explain everything to Seele was the conversation she had with Red in one the secret scenes. Vita's initial reaction is to bear with people's hatred and keep living for herself, but Red tells her she still wants to talk to the little boy who started to hate her because it takes effort to become friends when you're strangers. Vita made an effort to make things right with Seele and be her friend, and even vowed to always support her no matter what. Vita is invested in Seele, enough to go against her first impulses to make things right.

But then she leaves to enjoy her freedom at the end of chapter 39— she wishes her a safe trip home. So is she not scared of being a bad person anymore? Nah, I don't think that's it. I think she just likes Seele too much to involve her in something terrible like say... herself.

See, it really is not suitable for her to have a friend to balance her out...

...she doesn't want to be a burden.

Plus she hardly accepts the little Vitas' affection to begin with, acting either coldly or insincerely with them, and the Vitas only have her. Seele has other friends, obligations and a home to return to already.

Bonus: The devs also had this to say about Vita's self perception:

Designer: Also a villain, but Vita doesn't feel so hateful.

Fanchuan: She is a pure dark color. You think she is evil, she doesn't think so. She is quite innocent at it.

An interesting thing to say about a self-admitted villain right? Her not being hateful is very noticeable, but saying Vita's evil is "innocent" and that she doesn't think she's evil seems to completely contradict what she's says about herself— like that she's a "bad and selfish woman".

There's a difference between thinking you're evil and thinking you're a bad person though.

Of course this talk isn't canon, just a Word of God, but think about it. She's a ruthless manipulator and she knows it, alright. Her acts and methods are quite problematic, she even looks down on people's struggles for their lives as boring and taunts them. Makes sense that people like Veliona see her as evil.

However, her intentions are innocent. Wanting to save Salt Snow or Phosphorus, wanting to spend time with friends, wanting to escape Sa's control, wanting to be free and happy, these are innocent desires.

In conclusion, Vita's a good girl at her core; she wants simple and good things, and she's concerned about doing bad things unimpeded. However, because of how she's lived her life, this girl is packaged with a rotten personality, and has no peer she's comfortable relying on.

Seele, however, is exactly the kind of person that could balance her out, and she's attracted to that goodness and determination, admiring how smart she is to see through Vita's lies and how kind she is to spare even Vita at her worst.

Also yeah, seems to think Seele's hot with a scythe.

The arc title being "Dance of Life and Death" suits Vita's struggles pretty well, doesn't it?

[liskantope]

My condolences about your friends. I hang out a lot in New York makerspaces and have met a few people in a similar position to you. I’m not a rationalist or an Effective Altruist. However I do know what it’s like to be caught up in a cult-like friend group ruled by someone who has done everything in their power to eschew genuine human connection and suppress their sense of cognitive empathy. I also know what it is to be manipulated by a charismatic but fundamentally selfish and power hungry person into doing terrible things. From one stranger on the internet to another, I hope you’re taking care of yourself.

Thanks for your empathy and concern.

It's really not as severe of a situation for me as it might sound. I've always heavily compartmentalized my online-as-Liskantope life from my "real" life, and that includes my friendship with the former Tumblr user in question -- it was very much the closest thing I had to a true "Tumblr friendship" in the late 2010's (not as deep as some -- we didn't even go as far keeping up a DM conversation -- and at the time I was very leery of even labeling it as any sort of friendship because I was in my early 30's while he* was in high school, which felt weird), and a "Tumblr friendship" felt like a much less substantial thing than a real-life friendship. That said, I do have very warm memories of our Tumblr interactions some 6-8 years ago, which are warm in a sort of unique way (at least those are the best words I can come up with right now to express it?), and my every thought/realization of what wound up happening does make me feel gut-twisted on a daily basis. It's also hard to balance a compulsion to learn as much as I can about the broader story here with the importance of making sure I'm in the right mindspace to handle its very disturbing aspects (both regarding my old friend individually and the ideas that animate the whole Ziz group collectively).

And to be clear, I find it quite plausible (not going to make an actual judgment here, especially when even after weeks I still have some reading to do) that he really committed a serious crime, namely that of attempted murder (and legally speaking another crime of actual murder of Emma Borhanian, but I'm just going to go ahead and say that the CA law that puts this on paper as "murder" is bullshit). I have almost complete confidence in declaring that he fell in with, let's say, a very dangerous crowd, which is still not quite to say that Ziz ticks off all the necessary boxes for "cult leader" or was manipulating people with a very high level of deliberation. But at the same time, I knew him to be a thoughtful, earnest, and kind person at least as recently as 5-6 years ago, refuse to believe that he is a monster at least outside of very narrow areas of his psyche, and refuse to believe that it's morally fitting for even someone who is an actual monster to be subjected to the kind of torture that is my understanding of solitary prison confinement. *At the time and until recently, I was mainly using "they/them" for this Tumblr user, but recent news articles suggest that he was on hormones and asked to be housed in a male prison.

[egg-emperor]

WHAT DID I FUCKING SAY Y'ALL????

Eggman isn't the overly physically affectionate gushing and throwing arms around people type, it doesn't suit his demeanor and behavior and I'm glad to see that hasn't been suddenly forced with Sage. And that's even aside the way she's still actually not a physical being in the way she's a digital program so he'd surely just phase through her anyway since I'm pretty sure there isn't a solid physical sense of touch actually going on here between them, but again that's besides the point anyway-

This isn't over the top and uncomfortable OOC like in fanon. I like how it's a subtle and small gesture, with him extending his arm with hand out to her but looking away and forward. He's quiet, solemn, and reserved. His demeanor and body language is very important. He takes a breath that seems like a "sigh well, here goes" kind of way then mumbles it, not much, just small words of praise towards her doing the very things he created and praised her for before- doing what he wants her to and serving her purpose as his protector like she protected him in the fight, and calling her his daughter also has the same effect in encouraging her and he knows it, as well as how it's appealing to him for his pride as he said in the memo.

Also wow his bear paws are so fucking big do you see what I'm saying god damn lol I wanna hold them so bad too ahhgufdbkgshj 🥰 Speaking of, this is literally exactly how I imagine such gestures with him in my self sh!pp!ng too and I think anything different would be OOC, this is the way that works in any form I think

It's very important to acknowledge that he's not shy at all, that's the last word to describe him. He has the highest self esteem, self love, and confidence and it's all genuine. It's just that hyper affectionate super warm and mushy gushy-ness, be it through feelings, words, or actions isn't his thing. The most he's ever going to hype someone up close to it is in a performative manipulative way to urge them to continue doing what pleases him, and he forces it in some cases more than others, you get varying degrees.

But I like how it's on the more subtle side here a lot because it's even more telling of his true character. When he's acting like this it aligns with that reasoning again but with a new look at his style of showing it in a physical subtle manner, with his behavior being similar to the scene where she saved him in Cyber Space and said he was proud of her for it- only it was only through words then. We've now seen how he can show this verbally and physically and I like it a lot, it's the only way this can work and they did it. This is the best outcome.

Let me elaborate further; I truly believe that he doesn't know how to feel the typical conventional idea of "love" for anyone but himself because he is the biggest egotist and narcissist in all of existence and is extremely selfish and y'all seem to be forgetting what that entails for his behavior and personality feelings, and mindset with his self absorption and low empathy. There are no sudden exceptions to this, Sage is literally just another perfect example of it, nothing has changed with him.

The only way he can value anyone that isn't himself is in what they can do for him, what's in it for him is always his mindset, so it's the same thing of self praising, self serving, and self-centered, just being served through another person appealing to that through serving him, agreeing with his outlook, and having a willingness to serve and good use to him. And guess what? That's still the exact reasoning behind it with Sage. This is known and true in the prequel comic, memos, and Flynn's words and hasn't changed.

And why wouldn't he be pleased with her for this and praise her for it when it goes along the exact lines of that?

It's in character because Sage is the one giving some thing to him, protecting him, serving him, and showing loyalty, support, and respect for his desires. She does exactly what he wants as she's created for and is genuinely willing and enthusiastic about it unlike a lot of other creations of his. Eggman still hasn't done shit for Sage except praise her when she does what he wants but then becomes grumpy and snaps at her every time she does something he doesn't.

In fact he does it again in this scene too where he's seemingly really jealous and pissed when he notices her looking at Super Sonic with admiration lol

It's selfish on Eggman's side and selfless on Sage's side, so it works.

That's why I still wouldn't put the word "love" to Eggman's side of the dynamic because I feel it has connotations that don't accurately define his feelings. Though you could at least say he "loves" and "cares" for her "in his… own way" as Sonic put it, because there's actually selfish and unsettling reasons behind it as Flynn himself put it too. But it's not hyper affectionate, unconditional, or genuinely selfless like people are acting like it is. And it's so much more interesting that way and fun to analyze.

Eggman commending Sage for her work and for serving her purpose makes sense and is in character. It's nothing different to the reasons I said the standard base game ending was. The only difference is a hand hold presented in the best way. He finally has a creation genuinely enthusiastic and willing to serve him and being her creator and father gives him a lot of pride for being the one to create her and make her that way and his success and pride in doing so with the ways she benefits him and values his selfish desires are what his value is factually rooted in in the game.

So overall yeah, I really like how Eggman and Sage and their dynamic were handled in this update. They'll probably be a lot more in depth thoughts to come because I'm short on time right now, this is a mini essay in itself but l have tons more like always lol. But for now, since nobody seems to understand my take on their dynamic despite me just relaying what the game itself showed and repeating what Ian Flynn says, let me just remind you of my actual summarized take on how I see it is and how I cleared up misconceptions people have about my take on it here.

And everything we saw in this update aligns with and doesn't contradict any of what I've perceived and analyzed and discussed throughout my Sonic Frontiers tag on my blog! Very pleased. 👏

[tadpole-apocalypse]

So Astarion says during the post Cazador cemetery scene that he didn’t like Tav at first. Which makes sense given what we learn about him throughout the game, but it really got me thinking about I see Morgan and Astarion’s relationship and what they actually see in one another beyond the physical, so here is some stream of consciousness about their early relationship that I can't stop thinking about.

Firstly, I think the decision to seduce her was entirely instinct; I doubt Astarion actually sat down and planned to manipulate her, because it wouldn’t even be a debate to him. Ofc he’d seduce and manipulate her, that’s how he’s done things for the past two centuries. He doesn’t even think of doing otherwise; it's just how he is around others he perceives as useful to him.

She vouches for him to the others after the vampire reveal, mostly because she’s pragmatic and they need all the help they can get for the tadpole crisis.

When he tries to bite her, she has no moral qualms about digging into his mind. Not only does she see he has fed only from vermin, but she can feel echoes of his hunger, his revulsion, and then the barest bit of satiety as the putrid blood slides down his throat. Then he starts pathetically begging her for her blood, so she takes pity on him. It’s also pragmatic, she would rather not camp with a starving vampire, but it's mostly pity.

It turns out she likes being bit, so when he turned on the seduction she was like…ok fine let’s do this. It was casual for her to start, as well. She thought his over the top seduction was a joke, and didn’t realize he actually trying to seriously seduce her this way until she teases him about it at the tiefling party (during the scene where he’s trying out all his lines on her). He doesn’t have her “hooked” the way he wants; She still hasn't dropped her guard around him entirely and he needs her on his side against Cazador. She would also have spent some of the tiefling party flirting with Halsin and trying to get him to drink with her. Karlach and Lae’zel also shoot their shot with her here.

There's a really interesting dialogue you can get when holding the Sussur flower as a Sorcerer (or any magic user I presume) because it blocks all magic use. Astarion made a comment that we should fix not having our magic asap, because "he wasn't with us for our personality" like in a cutesy "oh darling I'm joking but am I really" way. He just for a moment becomes very transparent about the transactional nature of their relationship and because I had Morgan react with panic I thought she would have been really upset by what he says here. They would have a big argument around this part of the story that does threaten to end whatever they have going and it’s only until he sees she is actually really shaken and left vulnerable by the experience that he tries to fix his mistake.

Clearly what he was doing up until now wasn't getting him the results he desired, so he has to change tactics and actually try to cozy up to her in a way she will respond to.

He stops with the clichéd lines and act, which lets them talk more candidly with one another. At this point she's still being tight lipped about her background, and all she's shared is that she sold fortunes in the city to pay her rent. But they have things in common because they are both selfish cunts who reluctantly start to care about the others around them, and they can have animated conversations about fashion, local baldur's gate politics, and necromancy.

He spontaneously offers favors, like mending her clothing or slipping healing potions/baubles he nicked off of the last merchant they passed into her bag. He does them as an incentive to get her in bed again but it feels nice when she is genuinely impressed by his work. She has an eye for detail that he grows to appreciate, particularly when it comes to himself as she is not at all the type to give him the shallow praise he wants. It becomes a game for him to get those little reactions from her because of his actions.

Then by the time they’ve made it to Last Light Inn he realizes that he’s even starting to look at her entirely differently. Her large nose was quite elegant actually, and her freckles weren’t nearly as hideous as he first thought, and actually in this lighting she was quite stunning, really. And her blood was really really good.

His oh moment happens after the Gauntlet of Shar. She clocks his scars as Infernal way back to their first time together, sketches it out so he can see it for himself, and is generally like “hey I see this is important to you, I can help if you let me.” And she proves it by killing Yurgir, no questions asked. Just goes out and kills a devil just because he needed it. He’s a step closer to achieving his seemingly impossible goals because of her. And she’s covered in devil blood and gore and reeks because no one has showered in weeks, but she’s looking at him with fondness in her eyes and blood in her mouth from the Merregon arrow she took to the face, and his chest hurts in a way it hasn’t in many years if ever.

So what starts as him molding himself into a more attractive honeypot for Morgan ends up being something that makes him go...oh I want this. I want this to be real.

Morgan herself grew up in a cult where her social relationships and interactions with outsiders were heavily controlled, and she was always warned about sweet talking men looking to steal her away. Once she got free of the cult, those guys became her type. She was perfectly content to have short but intense relationships that inevitably self destructed, and this was how she expected things to go if both of them survived their situations, until she caught feelings too.

[bethgreeneprevails]

I have extremely strong opinions below so if you like Isabelle don’t read

Shipping Daryl with YET ANOTHER toxic woman. Come on guys?! Are y’all really doing this shit again? Leah seemed like an angel at first too didn’t she? Just because Isabelle is a nun doesn’t mean she’s not manipulative and toxic. The writers have shown us in 6 episodes exactly the type of woman she is. Should we judge people on their past? No. Is it important to who they are as a human being? Yes.

We were shown early on the type of person Isabelle was before the turn. She was a thief and manipulator. Okay, so she changed right? She’s no longer that person she’s given her life to God and she’s now a nun. No. She STILL has those traits within her. The writers have shown us this time and time again.

She lied to Daryl about the radio. Used it to keep him there longer. She lied about the drawing. Using it to manipulate Daryl into thinking Laurent was special and it was Daryl’s “calling” to help her delusion that Laurent is this special child. She lied to Laurent his entire life. She didn’t tell Daryl the entire story about how she was really Laurent’s aunt. I’m sure I’m forgetting some of the other lies. Regardless this woman continues to manipulate and lie to Daryl to get her way. She wants Laurent to have a father. She wants Daryl to stay for protection. She’s not thinking about Daryl and what he wants AT ALL. She saved his life but is essentially holding it over his head to get her way. ITS SO FUCKING TOXIC.

There’s a reason they gave us Leah. Daryl clearly has issues with toxic women. It was to show he can be manipulated by toxic women even though he’s smart and tough. He has weakness.

Isabelle using Daryl’s childhood history that he so generously shared with her AGAINST him is the most toxic thing you could do to someone. They are telling us RED FLAG this is not healthy just like Leah. I can’t understand how there are people so clearly ignoring this after what happened with Leah. Isabelle is NOT his happy ending. She’s not even a friend to him at this point. She’s selfish and a narcissist. Laurent is not Daryl’s child and Isabelle is nothing but someone who saved his life. There is no reason she should be guilting and manipulating him to stay there like he is her husband and Laurent is his child. They could’ve easily had her beg him to stay in an appropriate heartfelt way but instead they had her use his past against him in a manipulative toxic way.

Also how can we even trust her after all of this? What if she flirts with him just to keep him there for protection and to be a dad to Laurent? How do we know what her genuine feelings are towards him or if she’s just using him?

Ship and let ship I believe that. I understand people will ship toxic relationships (not my choice but whatever) but can we at least call it what it is? TOXIC.

Btw I do like her character I just don’t like how she’s being with Daryl.