#But if the evil clone theory turns out to be true | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

val-of-the-north · 3 months ago

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Caitha's connections to Filianore and Nito

Me and @katyspersonal have been developing more reasons for Caitha to be Filianore's mother, but before we do that we need to establish a different theory about Caitha's parents. I think one of them had to be Nito. Let's go over everything:

Caitha is a Goddess connected with death and darkness

Nito controls death, which is a power aligned with the dark. Caitha is revered as a goddess of grief, who sheds tears for the dead, and allows people a peaceful departure to the afterlife. However, her nature is pervaded by a kind of darkness that makes some doubt her true nature, to the point they even assume she is some sort of demoness/evil goddess. In fact, her chime in DS2 is exclusively an hex catalyst, which are all sorts of dark-aligned spells.

I think the only way to explain Caitha's close ties to death and her conflicting nature as a goddess with dark elements to her is to assume she is connected to Nito in some way. After all, the Gods/Lords aren't naturally aligned with the dark in this universe.

There are some people who might put into question her validity as a goddess, since she was introduced in DS2, and in that game it is insinuated that some people could also go down in history as gods through the passing of lore, which is what happened with Pharis, morphing into Evlana, Goddess of the Hunt. After all, if Caitha had been a normal human her connection to darkness would be a no-brainer! That's just humanity's true nature.

However, Evlana and only Evlana is outright identified as a human-turned-god, and it's the devs who spell it out for us too. And even more damning is her prominence in DS3 as a key figure in the Way of White, which dispells any doubt. Gwyndolin, the new Allfather after Lloyd, would probably know who is and isn't a genuine god, and treat them accordingly. She seems to be the only other prominent goddess at the time outside of him and Gwynevere, so she had to have been relevant to Gwyndolin's family specifically.

Nito is connected to family

There's a belief that Pinwheel is some father trying to revive his dead family, and this is why he is wearing family masks, but I think the idea isn't really that satisfying at all. The masks are designed after Greek theater masks, and simply depict archetypes...

However, they could be depicting something indeed, but instead of Pinwheel's family, they might be depicting Nito's. All the family masks prominently appear in the Catacombs on various statues and traps.

Several Pinwheels also appear to be guarding the room before Nito's boss arena, implying there's more of them than just the one we defeated previously.

These also can't be clones of the first Pinwheel because they have full health and didn't dissipate after his death, unlike the ones he makes during his boss fight. And why would Pinwheel defend the entrance to the lord he betrayed? It's stated that the one found in the Catacombs is a traitor who stole Nito's power for himself.

To me, it implies that all of Nito's acolytes, his powerful necromancers, wear the family masks in reverence to him.

And these masks aren't the only set of three things connected to Nito, he and the number 3 actually go hand-in-hand. Inside his boss room we can find three coffins! The big one, where Nito sleeps, a smaller one (but still much larger than a human coffin) besides him, and a third one, tucked away and hidden from view.

Water's strange prominence

Nito seems to have a passive connection to water. In the deepest part of the Tomb of the Giants, there's a shallow pool of water where an endless army of baby skeletons rises from, there are pools of water in his own boss room, and even the Catacombs feature a lot of flowing water and pools. In DS2 we meet the Milfanito and Brightbugs, creations of the Gravelord who inhabit the Shrine of Amana, a giant underground lake. However, Nito himself does not display any real water powers, but perhaps his wife might have.

Looking at the mask of the mother, we can notice how different she looks compared to the father and child. It's harder to make any feature out, and she seems to be wearing a crown of some sort. This crown features a wave-like pattern too.

Coupled with the large coffin besides Nito's, it's safe to say his wife must have been one of the people of Anor Londo, one of the Gods. It is also very fair that Death would find a partner in a Goddess of Water, an element often connected with life. After all, Nito did create life at some point, with the Fenito, Milfanito and Brightbugs, and it wasn't simply a matter of reanimating corpses like he usually does. Perhaps that was allowed through this specific union. In fact, the pool of endlessly-spawning skeleton babies could have been birthing grounds for these beings. Only, the pool has probably gone dry from her absence, so it's only capable of... that.

Nito is a Giant

Nito himself isn't a Lord/God but rather a Giant, evidenced from his domain (the Tomb of the Giants), the fact he was the first being to die making him incredibly ancient, and his affinity with darkness which is irreconcilable with the light-based humanoids. Sure, in Japanese it's stated that the Tomb of the Giants is where the Gods were buried, but the name of the area is still "of the Giants".

If Nito was a god, and it was a burial ground exclusive to gods, the area could have easily been named "Tomb of the Gods". Not to mention the various Giant Skeletons found patrolling the area, some of them even seemingly more monstrous and primal. The size of his coffin also feels like it's bold-enough evidence to positively make this conclusion.

Giants seem to have been the first humanoid race to rise from the First Flame, and in DS2 we see what are probably the most ancient race of Giants we know of, who don't seem to truly die in the traditional sense, only entering a "different" stage of life and growing seeds to grow new giants from. Their souls also have a small dark core surrounded by a mass of light.

I think they must have been the ancestors of all other beings, born in a similar manner to the golems in Drangleic and Eleum Loyce, back when souls first appeared. Maybe they inhabited the wooden husks of the Archtrees and gave them life. The DS1/3 Giants would come shortly after, still holding both light and dark within, then Lords/Gods and Pygmies, who evolved to lean more towards one of the two elements. Those Giants would be the first beings with the ability to "die" then, instead of living once again like the DS2 Giants, and Nito would be the first of them to perish, as his title suggests. He is, after all, the "first of the dead".

Some people might think the title simply means he is the first among the dead, but Wolnir actually seems to confirm it's meant to be taken literally. While lost in the international translation, his soul mentions a desire to be "the last of the dead", which parallels Nito.

(The retranslation is from LastProtagonist's Bloodborne document, in the Dark Souls WIP section, you can find it here [x])

The translation we got does share a similar sentiment, with him being keen to outlive everyone, but the Nito connection is lost. So yes, Nito was the first to die, and that strenghtens the connection with the Giants, who appear to be the most ancient humanoid race.

This explains why he would be able to withstand the dark that comes with death, and even prefer it to the light, judging from how dark his domains usually are (Tomb of the Giants, but also the Undead Crypt). It would also explain why a potential offspring with a God would be able to harbor both the light and the dark without issue.

Caitha is death and water

So, if Nito rules over death and his wife controls water, their child would show an affinity for water, no? Indeed, Caitha has certain connections to the water element, and the most evident one comes in the form of tears.

Caitha's tears have magical traits, and increase power or defense the closer to death one is depending on if they were shed for the undeserving dead or for those who have lost loved ones, tears of sorrow and grief.

One of her miracles, Tears of Denial, also allowed the dying a few precious moments to say their proper farewells to their loved ones. If her mother was indeed a goddess of water and life, it would make sense she'd have the power to grant such a thing. She would be holding time back just enough for all of this to be possible.

Her last miracle is Caressing Tears, which cleanses the body from all kinds of poisons, from bleeding wounds and even from frostbite.

This one is probably the most interesting, as it shares the same function and (almost) icon with an old sorcery featured in DS1, Remedy, developed by Yulva the Sealer to help the sick in Blighttown.

The spell, similarly to Ingward's Resist Curse, appears to use a blue, splash-like particle. The Sealers of New Londo seem to have been healers prior, and may have had some control over water, since it's what was used to seal away New Londo. The cleansing nature of water is likely what allowed them to heal people, and might also be what allows Caitha to heal the sick as well.

The Cathedral of the Deep was dedicated to Caitha

As I stated before, Caitha gained a lot of relevance in DS3, becoming one of the most important gods in Carim, the new "capital" for the Way of White. This newfound relevance is evident when looking at the Cathedral of the Deep. This Cathedral wasn't always dedicated to the worship of the Deep, as the Deacons once watched over and sealed that corruption away before being touched by it themselves.

Many statues of weeping figures can be found inside the building. The most prominent one is a weeping maiden, seen all throughout the Cathedral both inside and outside.

Most of them are in-fact covered up by a red cloth, as if denouncing their affiliation to her. This enimity towards Caitha is further reinforced through the efforts of hiding away Caitha's Chime, considered anathema by one of the three Archdeacons.

The in-game description mentions the Archbishop but it was simply a bit that the localizers lost while translating the text. In Japanese the kanji used is the same for the Archdeacons as opposed to that used for the Archbishop of Carim. I have a whole post about that actually ahah, and it also gives more insight on the Church of the Deep: [x]

But yeah, in short, the Cathedral was once dedicated to Caitha. The large graveyard outside is probably further evidence of this, seeing as her domain is mourning and grief. But she was also someone who healed and cleansed, which is possibly what the Deacons were doing before turning to the worship of the Deep. The Cathedral also features pools of water within, which feels all too relevant after all our previous discussions about Caitha's potential mother and her own connection to the element of water.

The Deep and water

The Deep itself is strongly connected to water. What Aldrich saw was an age of the Deep Sea, and the Murkmen who dwell within grow all sorts of barnacles and what seems to be mussels on their bodies.

It's said it was once a peaceful place that has been corrupted, and now filth and abominations reside within. Some assume it was Aldrich himself that corrupted it, but I doubt a single man could have such power, no matter how abominable and twisted he was. What likely happened to the Deep is that the stagnant nature of the world caused it to stagnate as well. The concept of "穢れ" (kegare) is very common in these games.

So, the Deep is connected with water. The Deacons of Caitha were safeguarding it in her Cathedral before it corrupted them. I think the Deep was once good, and that spells like Remedy were drawing from it... but signs of corruption were already beginning in the form of the Vagrants. They have always been bizarre creatures, with a very clear sea-life motif to them. It's my belief that they were some of the original inhabitants of the Deep before it went bad.

Vagrants appear where players have died and lost plenty of humanity. These crab-like creatures might have first found the Human Dregs, the heaviest things within the human body, consumed them, and got a taste for them.

Crabs are a very common bottom feeder after all, eating all sorts of stuff that sinks into whatever body of water they inhabit. At the time of DS1 there were probably less dregs to be found as the cycle was still young and not as stagnant, so to seek more they must have crawled out in search of fresh humanity. It's worth noting the core of murky darkness inside them, perhaps an early sign of the corruption to come.

Filianore, her powers and her egg

With all of this cleared out, we can finally talk about Filianore, who we believe is the daughter of Gwyn and Caitha. Filianore is a pretty mysterious figure, and her powers seem to be a bit unclear. She has a sacred chime that boosts healing miracles (half of which are connected to Gwynevere), enanchment miracles (seemingly only Sacred Oath, related to the Firstborn) and the one cure miracle in the game, which belongs to Caitha.

Filianore herself seems to have been affected by darkness at least somewhat, with black streaks coming out of her closed eyes, and the large egg with a dark core within, very reminiscent of the Vagrants we discussed earlier.

I think Filianore inherited some affinity with the Dark from her mother's side, which was probably one of the reasons she was given to the Pygmies instead of someone like Gwynevere. Her powers must have also been about the manipulation and distorsion of time itself, which could explain why the Ringed City seems to be in a better condition than the rest of the world, which piled up together into the Dreg Heap. Like Caitha and her Tears of Denial, she might have had the ability to manipulate time, though instead of reversing death for a short while she could make time flow slowly. Both are holding a specific process back (death for Caitha and time for Filianore). I think it's her blood relation to Gwyn that allowed her to master this power so effectively, as time only exists the way it does because of Fire.

Maybe Gwyn sought to keep the Pygmies stuck in a time bubble that would keep them always behind everyone. I believe he didn't lie to Filianore when he said he'd be back for her, but he simply wished to bide his time to find a way to conquer the Dark before the end of his Age, something that never came to pass. So when we see the Ringed City, we are seeing a point in time that's way behind the current one. Despite that, we can tell a long time has passed in this time bubble too by the state of disrepair of the city, as well as the presence of an advancing Deep.

The egg itself is really interesting. If Vagrants are from the Deep, thus are connected with water, her holding one of them since before any corruption would have started polluting the world is very interesting. Maybe this power or gift relates less to her mother Caitha and more to her grandmother. It seems to act as a seal of some sort, as when the egg finally breaks Filianore is able to wake up. However, this causes time to start flowing again all at once, causing us to jump super forward in time and find ourselves in the ashen wasteland that we see at the end of the Ringed City DLC.

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shibexie · 7 months ago

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I see a lot of discourse over the Tord Clone Theory, how it wouldn't make sense and how not a lot of people really want it to be true. I wouldn't really want the clone theory to be true more than anybody else, but if they did go that direction, this is how I think (Maybe) the best version of it could be played out.

If the Tord that we see in the end turned out to be a clone, maybe it could be revealed that it was kind of a stepping stone for the real Tord? He could have used the clone to retrieve his stuff from the old place because he saw the potential for something to go wrong and preferred sending a clone because he would see it as disposable, rather than going in himself and risk something happening to him.

So now we have the real Tord completely fine, though giant robot-less and maybe clone-less if the clone gets killed off in the end. He is now scar-less, (more recognizable as Tord) and still evil.

But what if it went the opposite direction? What if the real Tord went to the house, but the clone of him still existed?

I think this could stretch out, and have the clone develop into a completely different character, but still manage to be Tord (Like one of those red leader designs). Though this is a little less likely, because the Eddsworld team is still actively doing stuff with the Tord character, it could be a way for them to kill the real Tord off so that he is dead and gone from the show like he was supposed to be, but still have him kind of be there in the new eddsworld episode with this new character this clone develops from.

Another idea (This is also kind of out there) is that both of these could actually happen if we follow the first theory. If it was the clone that went to the house, and isn't killed off, they could have that clone develop into a different character, so now there are two villains (potentially??) that originated from Tord.

I know this is probably a little detailed for a comedy like Eddsworld, but hey! I just like to speculate, and this has been brewing in the back of my mind for a while.

Sorry if this has already been said by somebody else! I haven't really seen much other than the back and forth whether people want it to be canon or not!

#eddsworld #eddsworld tord #tord #ew tord

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catholickedd · 11 months ago

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Hiiiii do you wanna infodump about the end of season 5???

yes yes yes always absolutely.

@anomnipie @zanukavat this is my infodump of plot & thoughts feel free to interact & talk to me about it

spoilers below cut, also this turned out REALLY long hehe oops

SO. let’s set the stage. there were a LOT of bomb drops in the last few episodes and it took me all of last night to process all of it (that’s what the diagram was for.)

to put the most major bomb drop into perspective, we have to go all the way back to the s3 premiere. rick was trapped inside his own mind and the federation was trying to get the equations for his portal gun. rick shows the federation agent his memory of being visited by rick prime, a rick from another universe, who tells him “hey, check this out, portal gun, inter-universe teleportation, come with me; we’ll be gods.”

and our rick’s defining character trait is an will always be he loves his family to the point of destruction; be it his own or others’.

rick refuses prime, and prime leaves, disgruntled. rick decides to take diane and beth out for ice cream. so rick’s in the car, waiting for diane and beth, and when they walk out prime drops a bomb through a portal.

rick is the only survivor.

infuriated and devastated, rick quickly calculates the equation for inter-universe travel. the federation agent scans it excitedly; but it is then revealed that the code was in fact a code that gave rick control over his own mind again and that the “backstory” was “completely fabricated.”

my dad always says the best way to lie is to tell half the truth, though.

fast forward to s5 e8. rick is inside birdperson’s mind this time (rick’s ‘best friend’ aka palpable homoerotic tension) with a younger version of himself said to be 35. once rick mentions morty, younger rick says “you’re one of those creeps who lives with a version of our dead daughter.” later, we see young rick killing other ricks in a memory, as the other ricks yell “killing us won’t bring her back!”

two more episodes of fast-forwarding and rick, in a moment of anger, gives morty the key to his downloaded brain, telling him that his backstory is all in there.

we discover that it was true, that prime did kill diane and little beth, that rick went on a depression-fueled killing spree finding every rick he could in the search for prime. therefore we know that that’s what the ricks were yelling about earlier. he killed probably millions before giving up and transporting to another universe with a version of beth who didn’t die.

now there are three questions.

1. the existence of the citadel takes into account that almost all ricks have mortys. now, a rick having a morty at all hinges on beth not dying. what happened in all those other universes for beth to not die?

my theory is that rick went with prime in those other universes. because we often hear beth talking about rick disappearing for 20 years and then showing back up in her life. AND STILL.

rick being with beth at all is a prerequisite for ricks having mortys. so

2. how many ricks turned prime down? how many ricks went with prime and are still out there? how many ricks came back to beth?

3. in the universes where beth and diane survived, what happened to diane?

and also, rick likes to talk about how replaceable everyone in his family is but he killed so many before giving up and finding a new beth, not to mention moving AGAIN after he fucked things up in that universe. it must be fucking killing him that his real daughter is dead, that the one he came back to is living mad max: beyond thunderdome style in C-137, that the second time he moved he cloned his daughter and then made it impossible to tell which one is the clone. it must be destroying him.

and this isn’t even getting into evil morty and everything that just happened with him, or the central finite curve, which is a whole other post on its own.

goddamn.

also my dad said something that killed me - “that’s why rick always likes to go get ice cream”

so yeah. i’m normal.

ALSO THIS PUTS SIMPLE RICK INTO AN EVEN MORE HEARTBREAKING LIGHT.

what is prime’s ISSUE. what is his PROBLEM. what kind of person kills their own six-year-old daughter from another universe.

AUGHHHHH

#rick and morty spoilers #long post #rick and morty #rnm #rick sanchez #morty smith #evil morty #beth smith #diane sanchez

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goodmorningdove · 7 months ago

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tell me fun deltarune facts!!

instead of a fun fact have uhh what i think is how toby fox is going to tell the stpry of delatrune. Or rather, how he's controlling our perception of the narrative. For starters, toby has the advantage of us inherently percieving deltarune through the lens of undertale, which i think has lead to the perception that ralsei may be evil (bcz ralsei = asriel who is flowey and flowey acted nice but then turned and tried to kill you famously) but i personally think ralsei genuinely thinks he is doing the right thing.

I think toby is deliberately feeding us misleading information. Like at the end of chapter 1 when jris brandishes their knife it's like "OH SHIT OH FUCK IS KRIS EVIL??" and then chap 2 opens and it's like nahh they just ate a whole pie. honestly mood i relate to kris so fucking much in that moment. who hasnt wanted to eat an entire pie after befriending their school bully after exploring a magic world together and meeting a weird clone of your brother.

anyway i think toby is continuing to give us misleading information, like what the hell was up with kris at the end of chap 2. also what the hell is up with the secret bosses and shadow crystals and eggs. Yeah that's right fucking EGGS are a lore implicated object. There is a man. He gave you an egg. There is no longer a man. Wing Dings Aster i am fucking onto you you egg faced bastard.

Anyway. I guess fun fact i used to be a little uncomfortable with kris befriending suzie bcz of my history of being bullied (it sucked) but the spamton sweepstakes revealed that kris knows... something idk Suzie threatened kris at one point pre deltarune and as per usual suzie is threatening to eat kris's face but kris said SOMETHING to suzie that made suzy run out of the room. We don't know what kris said. we know it was short, we know it scared off suzie. Not permenantly, but she did run out of the room. Also fun fact noelle holiday is a fan of hacking video games! This may be foreshadowing that noelle is necessary to changing how deltarune ends (we are all convinced deltarune will end in a tragedy and honestly i do not know why. To be fair the ending is literally canonically a fever dream i am not joking the ending to deltarune came to toby in a dream while he was sick with a fever)

anyway uhhhhhhhhhh oh yeah can i go on a suzelle rant? haha this is my post you can't stop me!!! anyway the idea that suzelle is toxic or isn't going to be canon is just not something i see as textually becoming true (one theory guy i watch loves the idea of sizie turning noelle down and i personally just don't see that as the most narratively potent storyline) Here's what we know about noelle and suzie's storylines indivdually. Suzie: a supposed toughgirl who's actually emotionally scarred and covers her fears of being judged by being aggressive. She also is afraid that people will judge her for being too loud or aggresive when she tries to fit in, so she purposefully goes over the top aggresive so she's in control of the narrative. Her narrative has already started with her and kris becoming weirdo friends as well as her friendship with lancer and beginning to open up to Ralsei's sensitiveness also being something that suzie at least kind of enjoys. Noelle: soooo fucking scared her mother is scary and doesnt let her express emotions at all, her sister is missing and her dad is in the hospital so she's stuck with her scary mother who is probably even colder than normal due to stress of a missing daughter and sick husband. Noelle also has a sort of facination with scary things, she's a lil thrill seeker but she has a difficult time differentiating what's a fun scare and what's a bad scare. Most things feel like a bad scare... except for suzie! suzie is a fun scare, largely because suzie has never once been actually mean to noelle (and kris seems like they arent actually afraid of suzie) and noelle's arc in chapter 2 (snowgrave notwithstanding) is about her standing up to Queen who has been trying to use noelle's power to open up another dark fountain. Their arcs combined, to me at least, will become suzie learning that her weirdness/scaryness won;t drive noelle away and also is part of what noelle likes about suzie. She also won't have to worry about noelle judging her for being sensitive because well, noelle is quite sensitive! Noelle meanwhile i see gaining more and more confident, and suzie will act as noelle's hypewoman. This will further Noelle's confidence because suzie IS very strong so if someone doesn't take noelle seriously then suzie can step up to help and be like "you wanna try that again?" to the idiot trying to disrespect noelle. also i think it would be really cute and funny if noelle and suzie went on a date to watch a horror movie and noelle is staring at the screen very intently meanwhile suzie is clinging onto noelle out of pure fear.

also no one knows what the fuck ralsei is but there are some theories (surprisingly the dead asriel theory actually holds weight and explains a lot) BUT an obvious angle is that ralsei is the missing green crayon from kris's house combined with kiris's old red horned headband. Personally i think the red horned headband is a bit of red herring (lol) as i personally think kris is just uh depressed. I know ralsei has pink horns which i know is abnormal for what we know of asriel but like. idk it could just be that ralsei isnt asriel. or asriel's horns ARE pink afterall we have only seen asriel: without horns and: with horns in god of hyper death mode which also happens to have his sprite in black and white. So like theres a lot of wiggle room.

anyway now im going to off about my kris is depressed theory thing. i think it's pretty obvious that kris is an allegory for depression. They are the boring human in a town full of monsters, their best friend and brother has left for college, who they probably have been living in the shadow of as he has all done. It's also quite possible that kris's only other friend, noelle, may have also only been because of asriel, as noelle has an older sister, Dess, who very likely was friends with asriel, while kris and noelle were mostly just friends by proxy. Kris may be afraid that when Asriel returns he won't want to hang out with kris anymore. Maybe that's why Kris is opening the dark fountains? to put the world in jepordy and then save the world so their brother still thinks they are cool. It's a bit extreme but idk maybe kris is also suicidal (which i actually do think is true)

also im like 99% sure that suzie does not know that asriel exists. and i cant wait for her to learn about him. like that's going to be fucking hilarious.

anyway this turned into a fucking mess i hoped you enjoyed it :) go play deltarune chapters 1&2 they are free :)

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mythicaldemigoddess-of-deltarune · 2 years ago

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Sage Prime AU: Rusty Rose Found A Small & Cute Anomaly

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Credit for Sonic The Hedgehog goes to Sega

Credit for Sonic Prime Series goes to Sega & Netflix

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not sure if anyone else had this type of Crossover AU idea, but if there was a Crossover AU that has to do with Sonic Frontiers & Sonic Prime, it would be called Sage Prime.

like picture Sonic still ending up in the same situation, along with Shadow being in the same situation, but instead of Sonic ending up in New Yoke along, he ends up there with Sage.

January 19th will be the Crossover AU known as Sage Prime’s Birthday.

I think Sage’s first thoughts would be when she sees The Chaos Council,

would be “Father, why are you wearing a wig....? and appears you have cloned yourself as well.....”

but like instead of keeping the thoughts inside her head, she says them out loud for everyone in the room to hear.

this would also be my first fan art of Rusty Rose, I hope I did okay drawing her.

I can’t help but think that Shadow Figure that was talking to Rusty, might not be Mister Doctor Eggman (I’m still calling him by the nickname Megan.)

because the voice sounds different and the hair style seems different as well, my Fan Headcanon and theory is that could be The Egg-Emperor that is the boss of The Chaos Council.

well either that, or The Real Egg-Emperor’s right-hand man, and it could turn out that Doctor Eggman, the original did survive and didn’t have himself shatter into multiple counterparts, and had ended up cloning himself, and creating The Chaos Council and The Mysterious Shadow Figure Eggman (who I don’t think is “Megan” and might be a different version of Eggman.)

plus Eggman surviving what happen to Sonic’s original world, would explain why we don’t see any versions of Eggman in the Pirate and Jungle Worlds.

plus both him and Sonic were the closes to The Paradox Prism, so in theory if The Original versions of Tails, Amy, Knuckles and Rouge were a little bit closer to the paradox prism like Sonic and Eggman were, they wouldn’t of shattered into multiple counterpart versions of themselves.

I do have a theory about Sonic from the Sonic Prime series, being The True Sonic Prime, while the Archie version wasn’t and was like a Subprime, like even if Sonic (from Sonic Prime) had his original world shattered, new reality and worlds are still being born and brought into existence.

like the Zone Cops, like Zonic, mistakenly thought that Sonic from the Mobius Subprime, was from Mobius Prime but it turns out after every zone and person who was erased from the original timeline and had regenerated in the Fanon Timeline-stream, and this would end up having all the Zone Cops being regenerated as well, they would then find out that the Sonic that they thought was the Prime-Sonic, turning out to be NOT the real Prime-Sonic at all.

and he was Subprime-Sonic, I am fan headcanoning that, because it makes sense that Sonic from the new Sonic Prime show, is the True Prime-Sonic and the one from the Archie Comic series, turning out not to be the true Prime-Sonic at all.

I did write the theory about it, but I don’t think I have posted it yet...

plus if Evil-Sonic and Scourge were made into separate characters, and rewriting Scourge’s history where he was born with green fur and blue eyes, and is biologically related to Uncle Chuck.

and you know, I like the idea that Sonic’s middle name would still be Maurice.

Tom, Maddie and Sonic being like a Family, is like “I Fam It”

and picture if Tom or Maddie use Sonic’s full name, which would be like

“Sonic Maurice Wachowski The Hedgehog!”

and if Queen Aleena was Mainstream canon and not semi-canon, then she could co-parent Sonic (as well as Sonia and Manic), and be friends with Tom and Maddie.

which such a idea might only happen in Fanon.

when the Sonic Movie 3 comes, I hope they use the words “Sonic Maurice Wachowski The Hedgehog” in it, well even if they don’t, it can always be used in the Fanon.

if Sage had a middle name given to her by Eggman, I like the idea that the middle name he gives her, would be to honor someone who is not with them anymore.

and that someone being Maria Robotnik, so Sage’s full name would be

Sage Maria Robotnik, that be interesting if that was used in the Crossover AU that is called Sage Prime.

Sage does appear to be the same age as Bowser Jr., and it be cute if they became best friends, if those two ever became like “boyfriend & girlfriend”

I still think they would just hold hands, and just play together, like Bowser Jr. pushing Sage on a swing, and even playing video games together.

in a parody of “All-American Girl” by Carrie Underwood, it would have the words be “since the day, Eggman tried to create his Eggman Empire, he been hoping to make the perfect son to be his successor.”

“they would take him conquering the Green Hill, throw the Blue Hedgehog into the lake, and be his greatest creation ever.”

“but the moment when Sage came into being, all those big dreams changed.”

“now Eggman’s wrapped around Sage’s little finger.”

of course the part in the song that says 16 years later, the football star would be Bowser Jr in the parody version.

if Frisk x Monster Kid can be cutely ship together, then so can Bowser Jr. x Sage.

anyway, I hope some like this crossover drawing that has to do with Sage from Sonic Frontiers and Rusy Rose from Sonic Prime.

a Crossover AU between the Sonic Frontiers Game & Sonic Prime Show,

just seem like a interesting idea, and if Sage did end up in the same situation as Sonic, she might end up meeting Rusty Rose first in New Yoke before meeting up with Sonic.

we know that Doctor Babble is a baby and seems to have a bit of a temper, like if he was going through the terrible two’s a bit too early.

Sage could be the only one to calm him down, like her acting as a “big sister” to him and soothing him into taking a nap.

Sonic might call her the “Baby Whisperer”, that would be funny and cute. XD

picture Doctor Deep wanting to throw Mister Doctor Eggman a baby shower after Sage calls him “Father”, because she mistakes him being The Original Mainstream Eggman who is her Father/Creator.

and Doctor Done-it being, well, the funny Grandpa he is, he might say something like “About Time You Gave Me A Grandchild!”

which would then end up having Mister Doctor Eggman yelling “like I told that blue hedgehog, we are NOT a family!”

but even if he says their not, he could of fooled the fans, who some of the fans of the new show, already view The Chaos Council as a Family.

Doctor Don’t aka “Donny” and Doctor Babble would be like the sons of the family, and Doctor Done-It would be like the Grandpa.

I still think it might be possible that the Original Eggman did survive and didn’t break into multiple counterparts when the Paradox Prism shattered.

and in theory, when he did survive, he might of found himself in the Green Hill that would later be made into New Yoke, and without Sonic around, he could make his dream come true, and even cloned himself to help run New Yoke.

it be surprising if that theory turns out to be true, like how that one guy had accidentally predicted that Kris would eat all the pie in the Deltarune game.

which once again, I don’t think Kris did that until after they had sneak out of the house and broke into the library and made a dark fountain and then they went back home and used the knife to use on the pie, well either that or it turning out that when Kris had sneak out to breaking to the library, they left the door open and Susie was passing by and she smelled the pie and was the one who ate all the pie instead of Kris, who didn’t get the chance to eat all of, and there could of been only one slice left.

it be funny if Mom-bot from Sonic Boom, viewed not just Sage as her Grandchild, but also viewed Doctor Don’t and Doctor Babble as her Grandchildren as well.

and like how she views Morpho as her other son and him being Eggman’s brother, she might view Doctor Deep and Mister Doctor Eggman as her sons as well. it be funny if Mom-bot got on to Mister Doctor Eggman if he started to “pick on” his “Baby Brother” Doctor Deep, like this being at the dinner table.

and if Sonic had the same problem with his shoes after what happen to the Paradox Prism, The Original Eggman could of had the same problem and had to make a device to stable his energy, and if Orbot and Cubot were close enough to the Paradox Prism as he was, then they could of survived as well and Eggman might of had to make devices to help stable their energies as well.

if Sage had started to show any signs of being unstable, I guess she could be given a type of stabling device as well, that looks like a hair-clip.

anyway, maybe I will draw more of this “Sage Prime AU” idea again sometime.

I did my best to make Sage have a cute confused look on her face, but I guess it might be hard to tell if that is a confused look she has on her face.

I do think I may have drew Rusty’s emotionless face perfectly though.

also if Sonic did end up having a crush on Rusty Rose, even if it is just in Fanon, would that make him a Simp...?

I wonder if Eggman would simp for Lady Dimitrescu...?

like even if it would just be in fanon, and it be funny if Eggman’s daughter called him out on it.

like Eggman could be holding Sage in his arms, and she sees the way he is looking at Lady Dimitrescu and says “Father, you are simping.”

if there was a question I could ask any of the Sonic Characters from Sonic Twitter Takeover on Twitter and even shows on Youtube, which I don’t really have a Twitter Account, and I know I was thinking about it before, but because of certain reasons, I don’t want to make one right now....even if there are good people over at Twitter, but I have my reasons.

anyway if I had to ask Eggman a question, it would be this...

“Doctor Eggman, are you a Simp for Lady Alcina Dimitrescu...?”

but then that type of question might not be possible to be answered.

I wonder if the reason why so many fans have started to simp for her, might have to do with her being really tall and those who do simp for her in a hardcore way, might have a Goddess Complex, I know that the whole Goddess Complex might not really be a real complex, but like instead it meaning a literal Goddess, it would mean that those who simp would view the object of their simping as a “Goddess figure” even if she isn’t really one.

that could be one of the ways to explain the “Goddess Complex”...

I think that Lady Alcina Dimitrescu from The Biohazard/Resident Evil series, is a interesting character, but I don’t simp for her.

I may have simp a little for Karl Heisenburg, and might still have a small crush on him, but I guess I could have some form of simp-flux moments.

I still have no interest in forming romantic relationships with real humans, and not just because I am Aroaceflux, it has to do with a few reasons that make them unattractive...which I might talk a little bit more about in another post.

my being Aroaceflux and the things that I find unattractive in other humans (well the Toxic-Humans, really...) are separate.

anyway, when I can, I might draw more Sage Prime.

if be funny if in a Crossover between Sonic and Deltarune, Queen exclaims that Sage is her daughter now, and she takes off running and Eggman goes after her to try to get his daughter back from Queen.

Sage is just so adorable, and we know that Eggman is wrapped around her little finger and she could be the future Empress of the Eggman Empire when Eggman retires for all we know. XD

#sonic frontiers fanart #sonic prime fanart #crossover fanart #crossover au #sage prime au #sage robotnik #rusty rose #sonic prime spoilers #sonic froniters spoilers #january 2023

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antianakin · 2 years ago

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This is the funniest response anyone could have given to this post, ngl.

How does Anakin know Order 66 is coming again? He's never TOLD about it until it's literally happening and he's involved in MAKING it happen. It's just... a "feeling"? When and where in canon is there ANY indication that Anakin had any kind of feeling that something like Order 66 was coming, especially to the kind of detail that would lead him to presumably think Ahsoka had to be trained in how to fight off clones??

And even if that WERE true, let's look at how STUPID this response is as a way to try to "make sure his apprentice was ready." He's not just training Ahsoka in how to defend against the clones, he's training the clones in how to take her down. They're learning, too. Wonder if that's gonna be a problem down the line when those chips Anakin knows are gonna turn them against the Jedi get activated and Ahsoka's running for her life.

And if he DID know about it to this degree, enough to specifically make sure Ahsoka is trained against the clones trying to kill her, WHY WOULDN'T HE JUST TRY TO STOP ORDER 66 FROM HAPPENING. Why isn't he REMOVING the chips or finding a way to permanently keep them from activating? Why isn't he going after the person whose entire plan it is to ACTIVATE THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE? Why is AHSOKA the only one he gives enough of a shit about to try to protect in this way? Why isn't he doing some kind of thing to help Obi-Wan, too, at the very LEAST?

Unless your argument is that Anakin's been a Sith apprentice THIS ENTIRE TIME, he's been in on it with Sidious from, say, Attack of the Clones on at least, and so he just doesn't CARE about protecting the other Jedi because, well, he's already working against them. He's protecting Ahsoka because he's working to make HER a Sith apprentice, too, he can save her by breaking her and turning her into a proto-Inquisitor. Unfortunately, Obi-Wan is just not gullible enough, unable to be protected from the Sith's ultimate plan. Tragic, but unavoidable. He's doing what he knows is right, the Jedi are corrupted, they're evil, they're planning to take over, so they have to be taken out for the greater good.

An intriguing theory, I'm down!

Wild how TCW actually showed us the exact kind of test that might've actually been helpful for Ahsoka to have to help her learn how to fight in a war.

And it was designed by the Kaminoans.

This tested situational awareness, teamwork, marksmanship, adaptability, survival training, and a whole host of other things.

THIS is what Ahsoka could've done if they really wanted to test her in a situation she might have actually been in during the war.

Standing in the middle of a group of stationary attackers all by herself with nothing to do but block?

Fucking useless as shit.

#anakin #ahsoka #totj

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im-no-jedi · 7 years ago

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WHOA WAIT A MINUTE GUYS I JUST GOT A CRAZY THEORY

ok so that last post I just reblogged was super funny cause “lololol Shiro’s under Haggar’s control rn lolololol’

BUT CONSIDER THIS

we know that Haggar is currently manipulating Shiro into taking Lotor’s side and making sure he stays safe and all that

but look again at what Lotor says here about Haggar in regards to who will replace Zarkon:

we all assumed this was Sendak because that’s who she brought with her to fight for the throne

BUT THAT’S NOT THE ONLY PERSON SHE BROUGHT

hear me out here guys

what if Haggar’s plan right now.... isn’t to have Sendak or Lotor replace Zarkon...

what if it’s Shiro

now obviously this can’t have been something she planned all along; she didn’t even remember that Lotor was her son until recently, and right now, all she cares about is getting him back in general and making sure nothing bad happens to him

but if she really wants someone to replace Zarkon, who better than the current Black Paladin? she’s already got him completely under her control and is just waiting to flip that final switch and make him turn on everybody. and when she does, what’s stopping her from having him replace Lotor as head of the Galra Empire? she even already expressed how the Galra Empire is “gone” now that Lotor is in control, so who cares whether or not the leader is a Galran?

I have a strong feeling that Haggar’s plans for Shiro run deeper than just spying on the Paladins now. she’s got something absolutely horrible planned for him later on. and I’m both excited and terrified to find out exactly what it is...

#Voltron #Voltron Legendary Defender #VLD #Takashi Shirogane #VLD Shiro #this is a REALLY crazy theory I know #but I think it has some merit #and it would be REALLY cool having Shiro as the new 'big bad guy' tbh #even cooler would be if the clone theory is true #and Kuron is the one who becomes the new leader #and they have to find the real Shiro to help try and stop him #EVEN COOLER would be if Kuron and Lotor BOTH turn out evil #and they both become the villains for the end of the story #ohhhhh man I gotta not get my hopes up too high for all this LOL #Space Dad #Voltrunz #SPOILERS SORRY

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theshy1sout · 3 years ago

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Six Eared Shadow

Do you remember the analysis about Mei and Red Son? That was me, and I'm doing this again, but now about Macaque and Sun Wukong

Because what the heck why do they hate each other so much

Ok, so this... This is such a messy chaotic really chaotic mix of a few headcanons and theories I made up and it SOMEHOW turned into a fanfic that I wrote so long that other people made many similar things in meanwhile and now this sounds not original at all, but I wrote it not to keep it in my deep hidden shelf so here we go

(It's based on what I know from the lmk series. I've started to read JTTW, but I'm still not so far to get to know anything about Macaque, but I won't change anything about this theory from now on)

Let's gather some basic information for the start.

-> Macaque is made with a shadow or even he is a shadow (kinda shadow demon, the demon of shadow). I mean, shadow is not only his power, he literally is made with shadow matter. We know that because he can not only manipulate shadows but also go through walls and turn yourself into a shadow.

-> I'm not sure if someone made him or he just "poof" out of nowhere just like Sun Wukong, but according to the story he told about how close he and Monkey King used to be, there's no doubt they had some master/student relationship which later turned into almost equal partnership. What is said, Macaque followed Sun Wukong for a long time, learning a lot from him, 'being his shadow'. They grew in power together, fought together, and (as it is said) Macaque started casting as Sun Wukong shadow, which (surprisingly) looks like he did willingly. Just look at the picture - the shadow is big and bright, it’s powerful and smiling, proud of his strength. He doesn’t look like someone forced to be Sun Wukong’s shadow. It shows how much Macaque admired Monkey King, that he wasn't just a friend for him, he was his idol.

-> We all know Macaque is a shadow demon, he can easily change his appearance, he does not have to look like an evil clone of Monkey King, especially if he hates him now or something, SO even if he used to look up at Sun as his ex-student or ex-partner, and now we know he is NOT, he would prefer to not look so similar any more.

He can choose any other look, but he doesn't. Why? Well, maybe he actually cannot. Maybe this isn't an appearance he has specifically chosen, maybe this is his 'basic' comfy form and any other form would just take too much energy to keep up. And looking at the really tiny probability of two very similar monkeys just "poofing" out of nowhere, I dare to say, Macaque wasn't born (I mean like Sun Wukong or any other demon), but he was specifically created. And here is a question: on someone's purpose or not? Maybe the power of great Monkey King was so strong so the part of it just jumped from him and formed into another similar creature, but let me say it's just weird and I prefer the theory of Sun Wukong being so bored and lonely after his master's (Tripitaka) death, and he created a brother for himself from his own shadow. Just to have someone, anyone.

So Wukong created Macaque and then what? He trained him, he taught him everything he knew, maybe even he shared his powers with him. Some great great bonding time. But as Macaque said, something drew them apart. It is visible that Macaque blamed Monkey King for this, for 'forgetting him'. Before speculation of what happened then between them, let's focus on what Macaque showed us what he wants now.

We have two episodes, both show different sides of him. In season 1, Macaque's main goal is to steal Monkey King's power from Mk, and then to very specifically revenge. He visibly does not want to defeat Sun Wukong, he wants to hurt him as much as possible. Look: when Monkey King showed up, Macaque totally forgot about Mk. And then, when he's so close to defeat him, instead of that he turned to Mk and tried to kill the teenager. Mk is just a tool to hurt Sun Wukong.

And we can't forget how Macaque constantly pointed out all the weak sides of Sun, he's basically just saying on and on "you're weak, you're weak, you're so weak, I'm so strong, I'm strong, you are so weak". Which really fits the feeling of being forgotten because he was weaker and Monkey King was stronger, better, glorious and famous. Macaque really feels like that, he really tried to make Sun Wukong feel his pain by dominating him.

On the other hand, we see that Sun constantly striked off him. He said almost nothing to him, just "Aren't you bored of keep being in my shadow? It's time to give back what you've stolen" and that was fricking all. For Monkey King, Macaque is a just shadow, always behind him, something you turn around and leave behind to not see it and to forget, like an unwanted past. An unnecessary problem, that irritatingly keeps returning to him. He does not want to interact to not make even a slight more bond between them, he wants to delete him from his life forever, and omg WHY. At this end of the ep, Sun Wukong did not even mention Macaque. He really doesn't care at all (or extremely tries to not care). His HATE is almost touchable, ouch.

In season 2, Sun Wukong LEFT US ALL ALONE. Macaque showed up again, he played with Mk a bit, and... Left? That's the thing, you see, he doesn't need to hurt or kill Mk. All we see is Macaque talking about his past and then letting Mk experience something the 'hero' in the story should have felt. The guilt. When Mk interpreted his story differently, seeing himself as the warrior, Macaque corrected him. Cause he doesn't care about Mk at all. He heard how Mk told him about what hurt him, and here is a funny point, because if Macaque needs to be understood, listening to Mk and talking with him (such a simple act of empathy, they both needed it then, guh) should have been enough. Mk really felt the 'warrior' character in the story, so he understood what Macaque felt. But surprisingly, that was not what the demon carved.

Macaque chose to make Mk feel like Monkey King at the moment something drew the demons apart. He wanted to force Mk to be sorry, to apologize, to regret his mistakes, cause he failed with forcing Monkey King to feel that. But! Maybe he is not as purely innocent and poorly forlorn. We see the flashback for a half of second before Mk hit him with Staff:

We see Sun Wukong attacking Macaque who's in his demon (true) form.

Let's repeat this: Macaque felt as if a friend left him in the past. He said a friend did this to have all the "hero's glory" for themselves. We know Sun Wukong could do such a thing, especially before he met Tripitaka, but 1. In my theory Macaque is created after Tripitaka's death and 2. If (as my theory said) Sun created Macaque to not feel so lonely, he would never leave him for such a thing. So Macaque hides something for sure, something he did, something so terrible that made Sun Wukong attack him and not want to know him anymore. How horrendous thing Macaque did that made Sun Wukong choose to be alone again and to forget his dear brother he created by himself?

Back to the great bonding time, repeating speculation of "oh maybe they even share the powers" and comparing it to Macaque wanting to steal Mk's power, my theory here is saying:

Sun Wukong taught Macaque the technique of the same powers as he knew, but Macaque overused it (probably wanting to see how powerful he is, probably showing off and killing so many harmless people) doing terrible terrible things. So Monkey King took all of the powers from him and left him alone, powerless, with the last painful words: "Dont you dare to show in front of my eyes ever again". Of course Macaque was hurt, of course he didn't see why he's the bad guy, because he did not care about people at all. And of course Sun Wukong was hurt too.

Maybe he came back to the village Macaque had destroyed and following a quiet crying he found a little baby with a heart so clear and he put into him all Macaque's powers, making them sleep until the time will be right... But back to the series!

Yes exactly. Why did he destroy the lantern and leave? Why did he suddenly lose interest in teasing Mk and stop forcing him to feel guilty?

First thing, he saw Mk is ready to fight for his friends seriously. He still cared so much about them, not like Monkey King about Macaque. That was hard to swallow, that was hard to watch for the demon. That was't the thing he wanted to see. And second, the flashback. Maybe the sudden realization that he actually did something bad. Cause Sun Wukong didn’t just leave him, he cast him out. It was hard to admit that he actually deserved this (or maybe much more), it’s much easier to blame others, not yourself. So Macaque felt “that’s enough” and left. Mk brought him to this uncomfortable point of admitting the truth. Which he didn’t want to. Maybe in the following eps, he will see it, but now Macaque just isn’t ready yet. But the last talk with Mk gives me a little hope. He stopped treating him like a tool or toy, he was actually talking with him like with a person, he even warned him about Lady Bone Demon.

Maybe (maybe) one day he'll see that humans aren't just useless creatures he can carelessly kill, maybe Mk will make him care and realize what he's done, but that's just speculation in speculation, he could die before he reaches that point, maybe he is already dead....

And that's it. That is all I wrote on ao3, but in the fanfic I put much more details and I build those characters up much more than here. This is only rough rough short-saying, I'm really sorry if you read it all

Oh and here is a link if you liked this above i'd love if you read the fanfic thank you

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takerfoxx · 3 years ago

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The Owl House, Season 2, Episode 16, "Hollow Mind," First Impressions!

It was all going to come crashing down sooner or later.

This episode has been built up to for months. We all had it circled as a major game-changer that would devastate the characters and fans alike with what it revealed, and it certainly lived up to those expectations.

But what I find interesting on a meta-level is that (almost) everything that did get revealed was already figured out by pretty much everyone back in 2A. We knew that Belos was Philip even before Elsewhere and Elsewhen. We knew that Hunter was a Grimwalker (though after discussing and theorizing what a Grimwalker actually is for so long, it was certainly strange to hear Belos say the word out loud, as previously we only knew it from that one page from his book), that Grimwalkers were magical clones, and Hunter and possibly the previous Golden Guards were all duplicates of Philip Wittebane’s brother (friend? Companion? Conspiracy theorist guy called them brothers, while Belos just said that he was a friend. I suppose this will get cleared up in time) Caleb. These were not surprises.

But see, this episode wasn’t intended to be a big shock to the viewers. The crew left those hints on purpose knowing we would figure them out. This was intended to shock the characters, and man, poor Hunter took it the worst by far.

I mean, it’s like King said. No one wants to find out they’ve been following the wrong guy. Hunter was created and basically groomed to look up to Belos and follow him without question He’s been Belos’s stalwart right hand, psychologically dependent on him. Slowly through this season we’ve seen that devotion waver, be it from forming new friends with Willow and the rest of the team or his relationship with Flapjack (and hey, how about that adorable phone call), but he still remained loyal, desperate to prove his worth.

That has been utterly shattered. He has been forced to confront what Belos is and what he’s all about, and that is a monster. Philip was a witch hunter, an old-school religious bigot who came to the Boiling Isles with Caleb (I’m going to keep referring to his companion as Caleb until this name is proven otherwise) and could not accept the magic as anything other than evil. But the devil is in the details, and like previous episodes the real reveals for the audience are in the background, and in this case the paintings found in Belos’s memories.

Caleb set aside his hatred. Caleb made a life for himself in the Boiling Isles. Caleb fell in love with a witch and even sired a child, but Philip just sank further and further into his hatred, hypocritically seeking out dark powers in order to “fight” wild magic. But when he confronted Caleb, Caleb didn’t turn away from him, but instead reached out to and tried to help him.

And Belos killed him for it. First he went after Caleb's lover, but when Caleb stepped in the way, Philip killed him instead. And he never stopped killing him. Every Grimwalker since has been an attempt to recreate Caleb, but as a “better” version that would go along with his dogmatic madness. But each and every one still had Caleb’s kind heart, and eventually turned against him. Each time he killed them. Each time he made a new one.

(note: I've since been informed of an alternate theory, in that all of this actually takes place in the human realm, that Philip disguised himself as a monster in a [failed] attempt to scare his brother rather than sought out dark powers, and that Caleb's lover banished Philip to the Boiling Isles out of revenge for killing Caleb, further explaining Philip's utter hatred for magic. This makes a lot of sense, though if the theory about the Clawthornes that I discuss below is true, it doesn't explain how they themselves got to the Boiling Isles, or how Philip got the bones of Caleb to make the Grimwalkers)

As for how Belos took power, he turned into a con man, using tricks to try to bring people to his side, destroying their homes and blaming it on wild magic. And those coven glyphs? Yeah, they basically killed the first few test subjects. I know the first Grimwalker said that they were still alive, but Belos pretty much just left them to die. And now those marks are perfected, a kill switch on nearly every subject of the Boiling Isles. The so-called Day of Unity will be a genocidal massacre.

You know, for kids!

But what I find absolutely chilling (you know, in addition to everything else) is Belos’s reaction to it all. He wasn’t at all surprised to se Luz and Hunter there. In fact, he so easily used them. You know, one would have thought that this show would have taught me to sympathize with the thing presented as a monster and suspect the thing presented as an innocent, especially somewhere in Belos’s mind. He used them to basically just clean house on all the souls of the Palismans that he absorbed like the monster he is.

But even more to the point, he recognized Luz. He probably figured out what Luzara and her aunt’s deal was and was waiting for them. He probably knew what would eventually happen with Lilith when he made her head of his coven. He’s ten steps ahead of everybody!

Belos is honestly terrifying, as he merges two classic villain archetypes. For one, he’s the fantastical type, the evil overlord, the supervillain, the wicked sorcerer, the mad scientist, the one with the intimidating appearance and scary powers and massive fortress and fanatical armies and grand designs. If this was a musical, then he’d get a killer villain song, probably something with a pipe organ. We all love these kinds, because as evil as they are, they are very much not someone any of us will ever meet.

But he is also the much more believable kind. The bigot. The religious fanatic. The manipulator. The abuser. People that are very much real, that have ruined actual lives, that have convinced themselves that they are the ones in the right. We see people like this all of the time, these days even moreso. This sort of villain really hits close to home.

And now Hunter has finally seen all of this, has been finally had the truth laid bare…and it utterly broke him. That poor, poor kid. Everything he’s ever believed has turned out to be a terrible lie, the good guys are actually the bad guys, and the bad guys are the victims. Kind of have to admit, I went through something similar myself a few years back. It wasn’t nearly so traumatic or dramatic, but there are parallels.

But at least Hunter will have people ready to help him. I mean, Willow and the rest of his team are already his friends, Flapjack will forever have his back, Luz is there, Eda is there, and then there are the rebellious coven heads.

Well, well, well. We already knew that Raine and Darius were working together to bring down Belos, but Eberwolf is with them as well! That’s interesting. Given how fond Darius has become of the kid, I have no doubt he’ll play a big part of being that support system that Hunter needs.

…

Please don’t kill Darius.

Also, lol. Even these massively powerful witches have no idea what Hooty is. But they did know how to get past him. Oh, Raine. Just tell her!

But there is another background detail I’d like to talk about, and that is Caleb’s pregnant lover, who drove off Philip after he killed Caleb.

A lot of people have pointed this out, but that kid lived. And there are a lot of physical similarities with the Wittebanes and the Clawthornes. Plus, there’s the whole bird affinity. Which would mean that the thing between Belos and the Clawthornes is deeply personal, and also that Hunter might have an actual family waiting for him.

And finally, the Collector. Huh, what’s his deal? He’s like an even more childish Bill Cipher. Apparently he and Belos have been working together for a while, and he will be instrumental in the Day of Unity. I still think that there’s some kind of connection between him and the Blights, and that little bit of art Dana drew of him as a human looked an awful lot like Luz. Something to chew on.

If I had one complaint about this episode, it really could have stood to be longer or a two-parter. Yes, I know those were both impossible, but man, did something like this really need space to breathe. Imagine how much more impactful it could have been had it been allowed to slow it down between each revelation.

Well, the switch has been flipped, the battle lines are drawn, and now things will really start moving toward the end.

Prepare for trauma!

#the owl house #toh #hunter #golden guard #philip wittebane #caleb wittebane #emperor belos #luz noceda #eda clawthorne #hollow mind #review

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itsclydebitches · 3 years ago

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The Bad Batch: A Crosshair Analysis

Hello, Star Wars fandom! I have just completed watching—and loving—The Bad Batch, which you know means I now need to dump all my thoughts about the first season into the tumblr void. Specifically, thoughts on the complicated drama that is Crosshair. I have no doubt that the majority of what I’m about to say will be old news to anyone who watched the show when it came out (I’m slow...), but I’m writing it all out anyway. Largely for my own sanity enjoyment :D

I want to preface all of this by saying that the above is not an exaggeration. I love the show and I love the entire cast. My enjoyment in each of the characters is directly connected to my enjoyment of the season as a whole, which I say because I’m about to get pretty critical towards some of the characters’ choices and, to a lesser extent, the writing choices that surround those. Does this mean I secretly hate The Bad Batch? Quite the opposite. I’m invested, which is presumably just what Filoni wants. I’m just hoping that investment pays off.

But enough of the disclaimers. Let’s start with the matter of the inhibitor chip. I’ve seen fans take some pretty hard stances on both sides: Crosshair is completely innocent because he’s definitely been under the chip’s control this whole time, no matter what he might say. Crosshair is completely guilty because he said the chip was removed a long time ago and he chose to do all this, no moral wiggle room allowed. However, the reality is that we don’t know enough to make a clear call either way. The audience, simply put, does not have all the necessary information. What we have instead is a couple of facts combined with claims that may or may not be reliable. Let’s lay them out:

Crosshair was definitely under the chip’s control at the start of the series.

He was able to resist it to a certain extent, resulting in a pressure to obey orders coupled with a primary loyalty to his squad. See: telling Hunter to follow the Empire’s commands—which includes killing kid Padawans—but not turning his team in as traitors when they did not. It’s an in-between space.

Crosshair’s chip was then amplified to an unknown extent. I’m never going to claim I’m a Star Wars aficionado—I’m a casual fan, friends. Please don’t yell at me over obscure lore lol—but within TBB’s canon, no one else is undergoing that experimentation. The effects of this are entirely unknown, which includes Crosshair’s free will, or lack thereof.

Crosshair then becomes a clear tool of the Empire, hunting down innocents, killing on a whim, the whole, evil shebang.

In “Reunion” he’s caught by the engine and suffers severe burns to his face. One leaves a scar that covers precisely the place where the chip would have been extracted.

Removing the chip leaves its own scar behind. If Crosshair’s was removed, we can’t see that scar due to the burn.

After these events Crosshair seems to mellow a bit. He does horrible things under the Empire’s orders—like shooting the senator—but is still loyal to his squad—killing his non-clone teammates to give TBB a chance, saving AZ and Omega, etc.

Crosshair claims that his chip has already been removed. However, Crosshair is arguably an unreliable source if he’s been lied to or if the chip is still there, encouraging him to manipulate the team.

Crosshair claims it was removed a long time ago, which is incredibly imprecise. As we can see from just some of the events listed above, precisely when the chip came out—if it came out—makes a huge difference.

Hunter realizes this and presses for clarification, but Crosshair dodges giving it. Again, a legitimate belief that it doesn’t matter, or evidence that he can’t say because something else is going on? We don’t know.

Hunter checks Crosshair’s head and finds the burn scar which proves… nothing. As stated above, they wouldn’t be able to see the surgery scar one way or another: its existence or its absence. It’s useless data, as Tech might say. I’ve seen a few fans claim that Hunter was also feeling for the chip with his enhanced senses, but 1. I didn’t catch any evidence of that in the scene and 2. Even if we assume Hunter did that anyway, the chips are notoriously hard to spot. Fives and AZ couldn’t find the chip at first when examining Tup. Ahsoka had to use the force to find it in Rex. TBB themselves couldn’t find it at first in Wrecker. If machinery consistently fails to find the chip on the first couple of tries—it’s meant to be a hidden implant, after all—why would we believe Hunter’s senses could pick it up instantly? Maybe he missed it, or maybe it wasn’t there at all.

Crosshair appears to be struggling with a headache in the finale, just as he was at the beginning of the season and just like Wrecker was for the first half.

The point of listing all this out is to emphasize how ambiguous this whole situation is. I don’t want to use this post to argue one way or another about whether Crosshair’s chip is really out. I have my preferred theory (the chip’s still in, but only partially functional), but at the end of the day none of this is conclusive. The writing takes us in what I hope is deliberate circles. Crosshair says the chip is out? Crosshair is not a reliable source of information until we know if the chip is out. What other evidence is there that the chip is gone? A scar? We can’t see if there’s a scar. Hunter’s abilities? He only checked once for a canonically hard to find implant—if he actually checked at all. And why would the Empire want the chip out? Well, maybe it has to do with that push towards willing soldiers, but if that were the case, why leave Crosshair behind and have the “clones die together”? By that point he was one of the most willing, chip or not. Did they have to take it out because of the engine accident? Pure speculation. We just don’t know and THAT is the point I want to make.

Because it means the rest of the Bad Batch didn’t know either.

The core issue I have here is not whether the chip is in or out, or even how long it may have been in if it is out now. The issue is that TBB spent 99% of the first season believing that Crosshair was under the chip’s influence… and they didn’t try to do anything about that. They abandoned him. They left a man behind. Does this make them all horrible monsters? Of course not! This shit is complicated as hell, but I do think they made a very large mistake and that Crosshair has every right to be furious about it.

“But, Clyde, they couldn’t have gone back. It was too dangerous! Hunter had a duty to his whole team, not just Crosshair.” True enough and I’d buy this argument 100% if Hunter hadn’t spent the entire season throwing his team into dangerous, seemingly impossible situations to save other people. Crosshair became the exception, not a hard rule of something they had to avoid. They went back to Kamino for Omega, a kid they’d only had one lunch with, despite knowing how dangerous the Empire was. They went into the heart of an occupied planet to rescue not just a stranger, but one belonging to the Separatist government. They helped Sid when she asked and there was plenty of compassion for the criminal trying to take her place. Most significantly, there wasn’t the slightest hesitation to go rescue Hunter when he was under the Empire’s control, in precisely the same place. Every explanation I’ve seen fans come up with—Kamino is too fortified, they don’t know where Crosshair is, they can’t risk Omega being captured, etc.—also holds true for Hunter, yet there wasn’t a second of doubt about needing to at least try to help him. And his rescue was arguably far more dangerous given that TBB knew they were walking into a trap. Going after Crosshair would have at least had some element of surprise.

I think the problem with these justifications is most easily seen in “Rescue on Ryloth” and, later, “War-Mantle.” In the former, we do watch Hunter decide that going on a rescue mission is too much of a risk, only for Omega to talk him into considering it.

Hunter: “It’s a big galaxy. We can’t put ourselves on the line every time someone’s in trouble.”

Omega: “Why not? Isn’t that what soldiers do?”

Hunter: “It’s not worth the risk.”

Omega: “She’s trying to save her family, Hunter. I’d do the same for you.”

The arguments that sway him are ‘Soldiers should help people’ and ‘Soldiers should specifically help their family.’ So… what does that say about their feelings for Crosshair? They’re willing to put themselves on the line for the parents of a girl they met once at a drop site, but not their own brother? That’s the message the writing sends. “But, Clyde, the difference is that they had an advantage here. Hera’s knowledge of her home planet tipped the odds in their favor.” Yeah… and Crosshair is stationed on TBB’s home planet. Even more than them collectively having the same knowledge that Hera does, “Return to Kamino” reveals that Omega always had additional, insider knowledge of the base: she has access to a secret landing pad and the tunnels leading up into the city. That knowledge was given and used the second Hunter’s freedom was on the line, but it never once came up to use for Crosshair’s benefit.

“War-Mantle’s” mission puts this problem in even sharper relief. Another claim I’ve seen a lot is that TBB only took risky rescue missions because they needed to be paid. The guys have got to eat after all. Yet Tech makes it clear that going after Gregor will lose them money. They’re meant to be on a mission for Sid and deviating for that won’t result in a payment. He explicitly says that if they decide to do this, they won’t eat. They do it anyway. No money, no intel, a huge risk “on a clone we don’t even know.” But that’s not what’s important, the show says. All that matters is that a brother is in trouble. This time it’s Echo pushing that message instead of Omega. When Hunter realizes that they’re about to try and infiltrate an entire facility and they don’t even know if this clone is still alive, Echo points out that they took that risk once before: for him. “If there’s a chance that trooper is being held against his will, we have to try and get him out.”

Yes! Exactly right! So why doesn’t that apply to Crosshair?

“Because he tried to kill them, Clyde!” No, that’s the easy, dismissive answer. A chipped Crosshair tried to kill them. AKA, a Crosshair entirely under the Empire’s control. The only difference between his enslavement and Gregor’s is that Gregor’s chains were physical while Crosshair’s were mental. And again, the point of everything at the start of this post is to show that no one knows when or even if that chip was removed. TBB definitely didn’t have any reason to suspect that Crosshair was working under his own power until Crosshair himself said as much. We might have been able to make that case at the start of the season, but “Battle Scars” removes any possible confusion. The entire team watched Rex reach for his blaster when he learned their chips were still in. The entire team watched Wrecker become a totally different person and attack them, just like Crosshair did. The entire team forgave him instantly and had their own chips removed. So why in the world didn’t anyone go, “Wow, Crosshair has a chip too. He was no more responsible for attacking us than Wrecker was. We need to try to get him out, no matter how hard that might be, just like we had to try for all these other people we’ve helped.”

But they didn’t. No one even considered rescuing Crosshair. They only went back for Hunter and, when they realized Crosshair was there too, they didn’t change their plans to try and rescue him as well. He’s treated as a particularly threatening inconvenience, not another team member in need of their help.

The problem I have with how this all went down is that the team treated Crosshair like an enemy despite all evidence to the contrary. Despite Omega outright saying that this isn’t his fault, it’s the chip, the group seems to decide that he’s gone crazy or something and that there’s nothing they can do. “It’s fine,” I thought. “They don’t really get what the chip is like yet. They don’t understand how thoroughly it controls someone.” But then “Battle Scars” arrives and Wrecker is treated with such compassion (which he deserves!) only for the group to continue acting like Crosshair is somehow different. It’s easy to say, “But Crosshair shot Wrecker” and ignore the easy pushback of, “and Wrecker nearly shot Omega.” Up until Crosshair’s own accusations and Omega’s ignored comments, TBB’s understanding of the chip’s influence and the lack of responsibility that accompanies mysteriously disappears when the show’s antagonist becomes the subject of conversation. This is seen most clearly in how Hunter tries to frame things during his talk with Crosshair:

“You tried to kill us. We didn’t have a choice.”

“Can’t you see that they’re using you? It’s that inhibitor chip in your head.”

“You really don’t get who we are, do you?”

Hunter mentions the chip, but he acts as if it’s Crosshair’s responsibility to overcome it: “Can’t you see…” Of course he can’t see, that’s the entire point of the chip, the thing he currently believes Crosshair still has stuck in his head. But Hunter and the others—with Omega as a wonderful exception—never seem to have accepted this like they did for Wrecker. When Crosshair “tried to kill us” it’s seen as a deliberate act that he chose, not something forced on him like with Wrecker. When Hunter talks about their ethics, he subconsciously separates the team from Crosshair: “You really don’t get who we are, do you?”, revealing a pretty ingrained divide between them. Even Wrecker gets in on the action, the one brother who truly understands how much the chip controls someone: “All that time, you didn’t even try to come back.” What part of he couldn’t try is not hitting home here? Again, for the purposes of this conversation it doesn’t matter whether Crosshair was chipped this whole time or not. The point is that TBB believed he was chipped… and yet still expected him to somehow, magically overcome that programming, writing him off when he failed to do that. He’s consistently held responsible for actions that they were told (and, through Wrecker, saw) were completely outside of his control. Even when we factor in his claim that the chip was removed, TBB has ignored all the evidence I listed at the start. No one, not even Omega, challenges this super vague and strange claim, or seeks out proof because they don’t want to believe that their brother could willingly do this. There’s just this... acceptance that of course Crosshair went bad. Why? Because he was an asshole sometimes? Taking it all as written, it doesn’t feel like the batch considered him a true part of the team. Certainly not like Wrecker or Hunter. As shown, the batch will go out of their way, risk anything, forgive anything, for them. They have a level of faith that was never shown to Crosshair.

“Severe and unyielding,” Tech says and he’s absolutely right, but I’d seriously challenge this idea that any of the others would have automatically done better if the situations were reversed. It stood out to me that each batch member has a moment of doubt throughout the series, a brief glimpse into how they think the Empire isn’t that bad, at least when it comes to this particular thing. Basically, a moment that could lead to a very dangerous line of thinking without others to stomp it down. Wrecker announces that he’s happy working for whoever, provided they give him food and let him blow things up. Tech finds the chain codes to be an ingenious strategy and is clearly fascinated with their development. Hunter initially wants Omega to stay on Kamino, despite knowing that this Empire has already, systematically killed an entire group of people: the Jedi. Doesn’t matter. She’s still (supposedly) safer there than she would be running with the likes of them.

There’s absolutely no doubt that those three made the correct choice in defying the Empire, but I believe that their ability to make that choice is largely dependent on them having each other. They survive together, not apart, and it’s their unity that allows them to make the really hard calls, like setting out on their own and opposing such a formidable force. But if Tech’s chip had activated and he’d been left behind, would he have muscled through to escape somehow...or would he have gotten caught up in all the new technology the Empire offered him, succumbing to both his chip and the inevitability that if his squad no longer wanted him, why not stay? Would Wrecker have escaped, or been easily manipulated into a new life of exploding things? Would Hunter have been able to push through without his brothers, or would he have become devoted to a new team to lead? Obviously there’s no way to ever know, but it’s always easier to make the right decisions when you have support in doing so. Crosshair had no support. His team left him and yes, they had to in that specific moment, but the point is that they never came back. As far as we saw throughout the season, they never planned to come back. They all talk about loving the Crosshair who existed when life was easier, but they weren’t willing to fight for the Crosshair that most needed their help. When he says “You weren’t loyal to me,” he’s absolutely right. The same episode, “Return to Kamino,” gives Omega two powerful lines that the group rallies behind:

Omega: “[The danger] doesn’t matter. Saving Hunter is what matters.”

AZ: “You must leave.”

Omega: “Not without Hunter.”

The key word there is “Hunter.” Danger, stakes, risk, probability… none of that matters when Hunter needs help. Crosshair did not receive that same level of devotion.

Which creates a kind of self-fulfilling prophecy. The group is upset that Crosshair isn’t rejoining them, but they fail to realize that he has no reason to trust them anymore. He’s not joining the Empire because he’s inherently evil and that’s that, end of discussion. He’s joining it because above all Crosshair wants a place to belong… and TBB has made it clear—unintentionally—that he does not belong with them. The horrible actions that Crosshair took under his own free will (theoretically) came after he realized that doing bad things while under the Empire’s control was, apparently, unforgivable. If it wasn’t, his team would have come back to rescue him. They could have at least tried. But they didn’t, so Crosshair is left with the conclusion that either what he did under the Empire’s control is something the group can’t forgive him for, or they can forgive that (like with Wrecker) and he’s the problem here. He’s the one not worth that effort.

“The Empire will be fazing out clones next,” Hunter says. To which Crosshair responds, “Not the ones that matter.”

He wants to matter to someone and events show he no longer matters to his brothers. So why not stay with the Empire? I mean, we as the audience ABSOLUTELY know why not. Self-doubt and feelings of isolation aren’t excuses for joining the Super Evil Organization. Crosshair, if he is under his own control, is still 100% in the wrong for supporting them, no matter his reasons. So it’s not an excuse, but rather an explanation of that very human, flawed, fallible thinking. He needs to be useful. He needs to be wanted. Crosshair is an absolute dick to the regs and I have no doubt that a lot of that stems from the harassment TBB has experienced from them (with a side of his inflated ego), but I’d bet it’s also due to Crosshair’s intense desire to be valuable to someone. He keeps pointing out the regs’ supposed deficiencies because it highlights his own usefulness. When Crosshair fails to find Hera, the Admiral says that soon he’ll get someone who can, looking straight at Howzer at the door. It makes Crosshair seethe because his entire identity is based on being useful, yet no one seems to need him anymore. TBB seems to no longer want him. The Empire no longer wants clones. Now even regs are considered a better option than him, the “superior” soldier. Everywhere Crosshair turns he’s getting the message that he’s not wanted, but he’ll keep fighting to at least be needed in some capacity, no matter how small. Even if that means overlooking all the horrors the Empire commits.

“All you’ll ever be to [the Empire] is a number,” Hunter says and he’s absolutely right. But to TBB recently, Crosshair hasn’t even been that. He’s been nothing. Nobody worth coming back for. To his mind, at least being a number is something.

I hope that all of this resolves itself into a conclusion that is kind to each side (preferably without a Vader-style death redemption), especially given the still ambiguous state of the chip, but from a writing standpoint I’m admittedly a bit wary. We’re obviously meant to believe that the batch all love each other, but as established throughout this entirely too long post, this season did a terrible job imo of proving that they love Crosshair. Or, at least, proving that they love him as much as the others. If this was really meant to be just a matter of miscommunication, with Crosshair making terrible life choices because he only thinks he was abandoned, then we as the audience would have seen the batch trying and failing to get him out. Or at least establishing a very good reason why they couldn’t take that risk, hopefully with entirely different side-missions so the audience isn’t constantly going, “So you can risk everything for Gregor... but not Crosshair?” I’m VERY glad that Crosshair was allowed to air his grievances to the extent he did, but the end result of that—Hunter continually denying this, Omega walking away from him in their rooms, neither Tech nor Wrecker actually sticking up for him and acknowledging the chip’s influence during at least some of all this—is making things feel rather one-sided. It’s like we’re meant to take Crosshair at his word and accept that he’s this garden-variety antagonist who joins the Empire because yay being on the winning side… despite all these complications that clearly have a huge impact on how we read the situation. It doesn’t help that the show has already embraced an inconsistent manner of portraying chipped-clones. We know every clone has one, we know only a couple clones are aware of the chip’s existence (and can thus try to get it out), we know they enter a “Good soldiers follow orders” mindlessness once activated… yet towards the end we see a lot of side character clones thinking for themselves. Howzer decides that he’s no longer loyal to the Empire, giving a speech where a couple other clones throw down their weapons too. Gregor was arrested because he likewise realized how wrong this all was. But how is that possible? Do the chips completely control the clones, or not? Are these clones somehow exceptions? Are the chips beginning to fail? All of that has a bearing on how we read Crosshair—what were his own decisions, how much he was capable of overcoming the chip, whether that changed at all during certain points—but right now that remains really unclear.

It’s details like that which make me wonder if all these other questions will be answered. Will the story resolve all those ambiguous moments surrounding the chip, or brush them off with the belief that we should have just taken Crosshair at his equally ambiguous word? Will the story acknowledge Crosshair’s points through someone other than Crosshair, allowing it to exist as a legitimate criticism, rather than the presumed excuses of an antagonist? I’m… not sure. On the whole I’m very happy with TBB’s writing—despite what all this might imply lol. Until my brain picks over the season and discovers something else, my only other gripe is not allowing Omega to form a solid bond with Tech and Echo, instead putting all the focus on big brother!Wrecker and dad!Hunter. I think it’s a solid show that does a lot right, but I’m worried that, unless there’s a brilliant answer to all these questions and an intent to unpack both sides of the Hunter vs. Crosshair debate with respect—not just falling back on, “Well, Crosshair is with the Empire so everything he says is automatically bad and wrong” take—we’ve just gotten the setup for a somewhat messy, ethical story. For anyone here who also reads my RWBY metas, I’m pretty sure you’re not at all surprised that I’m invested in going, “Hey, you had one of the heroes suddenly become/join a dictatorship and do a lot of horrific things, but within a pretty complicated context. Can we please work through that carefully and with an acknowledgement of the nuance here, rather than throwing the ‘evil’ character to the proverbial wolves?”

God knows TBB is leagues ahead of RWBY, but I hope things continue on in not just a good direction, but one that tackles the aspects of this situation that many fans—and Crosshair—have already pointed out. As much as I adore the cast—and I really, really do—it was discomforting to watch a found family show where 4/5th of that family so completely wrote off one of the members and crucially have, at least so far, refused to acknowledge that. I want complicated, flawed characters, but that’s only compelling when the storytelling admits to and grapples with those flaws. We have quite firmly established Crosshair’s flaws in Season One. I hope Season Two delves into the rest of the team’s too.

Aaaand with that meta-dump out of my system, I’m off to write TBB fic. Thanks for reading! :D

#The Bad Batch #TBB #Crosshair #Star Wars #SW #mymetas #do I take my life in my hands #by posting SW meta?#probably lol

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nevertheless-moving · 4 years ago

Text

Suicidal Misunderstanding XVII

Part I - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part XIV - - - - Part XV - - - - Part XVI

Star Wars Time Travel AU #27

Anakin scarcely had time to relax into the confirmation that Obi-Wan still loved him when his Master drew back.

“Anakin- you have no idea how much I simply want to stay like this, but we don’t have much time before I have to talk to the council, and there’s some matters I really feel we must discuss privately before that happens.”

“Ok.” Anakin wiped his face with the sleeve of his robe and sat at the foot of his Master’s bed, vibrating with intensity.

“First of all.” Obi-Wan took a deep breath. “I know this sounds insane, but I need you to believe me- I’m from four years in the future. Or I had an incredibly detailed, four year long vision. Either way- I know things. I know where the war is leading us.”

“Alright.” Anakin nodded in relief. Looks like Bant was right. Thank fuck- I hated her theory the least. “So when you-” He vaguely mimed a stabbing motion “-You were trying to ‘wake up’ - from a memory?

“Yes! Exactly!” Obi-Wan replied, relieved at the ease of the explanation.

Anakin smiled reassuringly, then lunged to grab a pillow to whack his Master over the head. “You- fucking- kara- blast- idiot.” Anakin grit out, thwacking his master repeatedly with gentle rage. “Do. You. Have. Any. Idea. How! Fucked! Up! That! WAS! FOR!-”

Obi-Wan snatched the pillow, “Yes! Yes! I didn’t intend to hurt you, but I did, and I’m sorry, and you are perfectly entitled to your anger, alright!”

“I- oh.” Anakin paused, sitting back on his heels, not really sure how to go respond.

“Anakin- I know the identity of the Sith Master. I know who’s behind everything.” Obi-Wan stared intently into Anakin’s eyes.

“Obi-Wan- that’s great!” Anakin said excitedly. If Obi-Wan knew who was responsible for all their suffering then, “That could end the war, right?”

Obi-Wan continued to gaze searchingly at his dearest friend and brother’s face, gently opening himself up to their bond, trying to find any hint of duplicity.

Anakin faltered under the scrutiny. “Right?”

Obi-Wan took another deep breath. He didn’t know. This was Anakin, before Palpatine- did something to him. It wasn’t too late.

“Anakin...it’s...someone we trust. Someone you trust. He- Darth Sidious- he’s been running both sides of the war.”

Anakin paled, eyes darting to the door, voice dropping to a low, urgent whisper, “He’s on the Council? Fuck that’s bad. Obi-Wan, what do you need me to do? I don’t have my lightsaber right now, but-”

“No!” Obi-Wan replied quickly. “No! I mean, yes, it’s bad. But he’s not on the council. It’s- Anakin. I’m so, so sorry. But I saw a security hologram of him giving the final order to- to wipe out the Jedi and the Separatist leadership.” Anakin watched in alarm as Obi-Wan shuddered viscerally.

“I saw his speeches declaring victory over us, over everything. He personally killed half the council when we finally, finally found him out, far too late. Yoda barely survived- we were- the two of us were all that was left. I spent the last few years listening to his decrees as ‘Emperor’ - declaring the scarce remaining Jedi traitors to be hunted down. Making non-humans second class citizens. Enslaving worlds.”

Obi-Wan grabbed the front of Anakin’s tunic. “Please Anakin. He- he’s evil. He doesn’t want peace, or freedom, or justice, or security. He’s just been manipulating us all for his own ends. All of us. This whole time.”

“It’s going to be ok, Obi-Wan,” Anakin said earnestly, grasping his Master’s hands. “I believe you. If the force gave you this clear a warning- or this incredible a second chance, then obviously we have to listen! I won’t let it happen how you saw, I swear. I’ll do whatever it takes to stop him.”

Obi-Wan felt like he was teetering over the edge of a precipice. He sucked in another breath- why was it so hard to breathe-

“Anakin- It’s Palpatine. Chancellor Palpatine is the Sith Lord.”

Anakin froze. “That’s- not funny.”

Obi-Wan barked out a single hysterical laugh. “No, no it is not. But it’s true. I told you- I saw it and- it makes a twisted sense, even only looking at the informational available at this point in time! How the Separatists always stayed one step ahead despite our advantages. How the clones and the GAR came to exist in the first place. The constant increase in war time powers- Dooku karking told us the Senate was under the control of a Sith-”

“We’re listening to Dooku now?” Anakin asked, getting angry for lack of a better response.

“Anakin...”

“I mean of course that’s what the Sith would want you to believe! He’s the chancellor! Turning the Jedi against the leader of the republic is such a Sith move.”

“Anakin...”

“And- and- MIND CONTROL! What if it was it was mind control! You even said you thought that you thought Cody was mind-controlled, right?”

Obi-Wan drew back, alarmed and suspicious, “How do you know that?” he rasped hoarsely.

Anakin rolled his eyes. “You told Cody, remember? That first night? In the hovercar?”

“Ah. Right. Sorry. That first night is still a little fuzzy.” Obi-Wan wrinkled his nose. “I still can’t believe I time-traveled while high on one end and drunk on the other. It’s so- undignified.”

Anakin snorted. “You must have taken a lot of spice, huh?” he joked.

Obi-Wan shifted uncomfortably.

“I- oh for Krong’s sake,” Anakin groaned, slapping himself in the forehead. “Obi-Wan- were you actually trying to kill yourself?”

“No!” Obi-Wan replied quickly to the loaded question. “I was just looking for a- temporary escape. I did mention that a Sith Empire ruled the galaxy and Yoda and I were all that was left of the Jedi order, right? He didn’t seem totally sane the last time I saw him, either! Not to mention, I spent most of the last three years alone in a desert.”

“Oh.” Anakin grew somber. “Master, that-”

“And that still doesn’t explain how you knew what I said to Cody.”

“Well, the day after I came back to our quarters to find you in the process of stabbing yourself in the heart you woke up, declared Master Che both dead and a Sith trick, then sunk into a self-induced coma.” Anakin snapped. “The healers, I think understandably, set aside privacy and called everyone in to try and figure out what the fuck was going on”

Obi-Wan cringed. “That...makes sense. Sorry again.” He cleared his throat. “Look, we’ve got seconds left before council interrupts- I just- didn’t want you to be blindsided by the Palpatine reveal.”

“But you admit there was mind control involved,” Anakin insisted. “Cody wouldn’t have turned on you without it, and neither would the Chancellor.”

“Anakin- I know we never liked to talk about it, but the Vod had a lot more opportunity to be compromised en mass. They were designed for a purpose we never fully understood and their entire childhood consisted of indoctrination; we already knew Dooku was involved with their ‘commissioning- we just ignored it.’”

Anakin bit the inside of his mouth, tasting blood as he restrained himself from screaming. He didn’t want to think about Kamino and he had to make Obi-Wan see past the nightmare he witnessed, before he convinced the council of an innocent man’s guilt.

“There wasn’t anyone else who might have been mind-controlled, who turned on you, or the Jedi? You said everyone died- there had to be someone besides some of the clones and one old man doing the killing,” he said desperately.

Obi-Wan’s sputtered, “That’s- that’s different- it was so obviously Palpatine’s influence.”

“But there was someone else you think might have been acting against his will.” Anakin pressed, sensing a weak point.

Obi-Wan looked gutted. “I don’t know- I want to believe you would never do such terrible things but you did and it all happened so fast...”

“So you admit-” Anakin stopped as his brain caught up with his mouth. “Wait- me?”

Obi-Wan’s face twisted in anguish but he didn’t break eye contact as he nodded.

Anakin swallowed hard. “Obi-Wan... what did I-” he cut himself off as the door opened.

Master Windu entered and squinted suspiciously at the two of them.

"Mace!” Anakin said nervously. “We were just- crying. You know. Being attached and, and all that.”

Obi-Wan's jaw dropped open as he stared bug-eyed at his Padawan. “Mace?” he repeated, dumbfounded.

Mace Windu inhaled slowly through his nose. “Your friends had plenty of time to bond while we were trying to make sense of your more... disastrous traits.” He waved vaguely.

“You just gestured at all me,” Obi-Wan replied, offended.

“Well, you’ll have the opportunity to help clear up our misconceptions. Master Aerdo is preparing a meeting room in the Halls so you can explain everything, just like you wanted.”

“Oh, fuck.” Anakin whispered softly.

“It’s a different room, Anakin, I made sure of it.” Mace reassured him.

“Anakin?” Obi-Wan parroted in delight.

“Well, I’m glad you know everyone’s names, at least.” Windu muttered. “Master Che will be by to check you over one more time, she should have some proper robes for you. Should we contact Commander Cody? He’s at a pre-departure briefing with Master Tiin not too far away.”

“No.” Obi-Wan responded sadly. “We can’t alert anyone outside the halls about even the existence of this meeting. Maintaining secrecy right now is too important. We’re going to need to take a significant amount of extremely careful action on a lot of fronts if we want to unravel the Sith’s plots- and I hate to say it but stopping the actual war is unfortunately going to need to wait for last. We’ll still end things sooner than they would otherwise, but if we meddle too much right now... Whatever story you were using to explain my- absence the past few days, please simply double down on that.”

The Master of the Jedi Order nodded slowly, holding off on questions with well-practiced restraint.

“Alright Windu, Skywalker, get out.” Che ordered, brusquely pushing her way in with a hovercart.

“Yes, Master Che.” Anakin acknowledged, jumping up. He gave Obi-Wan a reassuring squeeze on the shoulder before he departed. “We’re going to get through this.” he said valiantly, trying to project confidence.

Obi-Wan smiled weakly, “I’ll see you two soon.”

“That’s up to me, actually.” Master Che said cheerfully, snapping her gloves.

Part XVIII

#star wars #my au #suicidal misunderstanding au #star wars au no 27 #potentially triggering #suicide references #my tags got so long that im just going to post them later as a big meta #star wars fanfiction #time travel #star wars au

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slitherbop · 4 years ago

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Thinking about Papa G...

I Like Him, here’s a post where I ramble about him and the theories I have about his past and future. This is the most open I’ve ever been about my thoughts on a hyperfixation have fun everybody Warning for spoilers

Hi I’m looking after my cats right now and had thoughts about Papa G on private while having a nosebleed and thought I’d write it out more on here since I haven’t seen anyone else point out some of these things and I have an evil brain that makes me want to think about Papa G because I love him he’s my favourite character right now, the more I think about Papa G the cooler he becomes and it’s true that I Do rotate him in my mind

Train of thought started with I was thinking about my OCs and thought what if Papa G had OCs, he’s an artist and has lived long what if he has just so many ideas for characters and stories that he’s accumulated over the years. Then now with his powers he could use his clones to help work on his stories and then he makes some sorta abstract and mysterious comic, like multiple comics and stuff and only shows it to Kid because he lives in the middle of nowhere and doesn’t really care about stuff like audience or publication he’s just living in some artistic bliss.

I think it’s cool that Papa G uses his clones to help with making his yard art but imagine having to wrangle multiples of yourself to create a narrative together. They’re all You but also Not You, think back to his character short where he’s making plans for a construction and makes a clone that instantly comes up with a different idea than him, so it must be wild having different versions of yourself that aren’t all on the same page as you (also in the short they like have different demeanours about them, shout out to silly balloon Papa G)

If Papa G let a clone of his live long enough they could become a completely different person. Different experiences and perspectives create a different version of Papa G. That idea is kinda scary to me especially if it were taken Long Term like a separate Papa G living separate from everyone. And I could see that happening in the show it’s just weird enough to happen. We had a Papa G be super traumatized, what if he let that clone exist longer.

Anyway you know how in that photograph in Mo’s Oasis that’s from around the 70’s that shows Papa G in the background looking Exactly how he does now... I really think time travel is going to be introduced in this, it could totally be the power of one of the thirteen stones and this show is wild enough to do it and is planned up to season 3. So I think what if some Papa G clones were left behind in the past. At this point I’d imagine that Papa G’s powers would be developed enough that his clones could live on without him (the team IS going to be understanding their powers more and gain new abilities, this could be one of Papa G’s.) SO what if those Papa Gs were scattered throughout time having to live out their lives. Imagine living the rest of your life in a different time and place knowing you’re just a clone and that you shouldn’t even exist :[ Papa G sadstuck (I’m sad at this thought)

ANYWAY I imagined a scenario in which one of the Papa G clones in the past contacts the Real Papa G in the timeline and tells him about the stones of power and THAT’S why Papa G said “if I had a nickel for every time I heard that I’d have a dime” to Kid who told him about the stones, hearing it the first time from himself. AND also WHY Papa G instantly knew how to use his powers. Plus also knew to trust Chuck (this ones a stretch I’m just being Gay here) this is where my initial thoughts ended

BUT NOW I HAVE MORE THOUGHTS!!! What if the reason why Papa G’s track record is “Surprisingly” long is because Well Papa G DID do some f*cked up things but also had the addition of some other Papa Gs stuck in the past to really muddle things up for his record as well. That’d be wild and could totally see happening, man. Man I love Papa G there is really no other character who is just a bundle of sunshine but have something Unknown and perhaps messed up implied about him, I want to know how much he has angered the government and want to know why he’s living out in the middle of nowhere with so few people to even know him. He’s just a silly old man.

Also this is because I never really venture out into looking into various media but he’s also the only character I know where their whole thing is creating clones of themselves and is actually given a focus into how f*cked up it is that he has to see himself die all the time and be numb to it, or clones doing things that his original self wouldn’t do and be traumatized by it. I know it’s WAHA funny gags but I think it’s interesting, it makes him a more interesting character to me. I like him I like that his name is George like me and is also an artist all he needs is to be trans gay and cree, alsoalso Green is my favourite colour and I love orange as well I like that he’s an old man in the middle of nowhere That’s The God Dam Dream

I don’t know if I have any more theories at the moment this turned into me gushing about a character who isn’t really too important but I like him ;_; thank you for reading once again I never usually talk at all but I like to when it’s about my favourite thing. I’m going to do things now goodbye

#kid cosmic #kid cosmic spoilers #papa g #after this I’m going to Shut The Up!!!!!!

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legobiwan · 4 years ago

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Maul, Obi-wan, and Raydonia

I was doing research for an entirely different post and I just...couldn’t leave this scene alone. There’s just too much going on here for me *not* to dip my oar.

So Maul goes to Raydonia and terrorizes the populace in order to send a “message” to Obi-wan at the end of TCW Season 4:

First of all, the panel where Maul says, “face me,” is interesting as Maul is directed away from Obi-wan as Obi-wan looks at Maul’s back, perhaps in facing Maul’s back, he is looking at the past, or, more specifically perhaps not being able to look at his past he cannot face Maul’s holoimage dead-on.

Secondly, this is such an obvious setup. (I know, I know. “Spring the trap.”) But Maul’s hilarious line in Twin Suns really shows us how much he not only knows Obi-wan, but the Jedi at this point (and in Rebels, he contrives this plan because it has worked twice already, on Raydonia and later, Mandalore):

Although this is not the point of this post, you have to laugh. Maul and Obi-wan, to some degree, have been dancing the same tango for over 20 years and the only time there had been a misstep, so to speak, was when Obi-wan left Ahsoka in charge of the second attempt at a Mandalore occupation instead of going himself. But otherwise, geez, no wonder Maul ended up in Obi-wan’s arms at the end of it all, just like a “dip” maneuver at the end of a dance as mentioned above. (They *know* each other’s moves, flit between lead and follow, and if you take this metaphor to its conclusion, then you realize Maul went to Tatooine, sought Obi-wan not because he wanted Luke, but because he wanted closure, knowing what closure would mean in that circumstance.)

But I’m getting off-topic. Maul goads Obi-wan by threatening to burn Raydonia to the ground and Obi-wan, of course, being of “noble heart,” immediately proclaims that he has to go. Alone, of course.

Mace, being the only voice of wisdom in this room, offers a sound strategy:

Obi-wan immediately rejects this perfectly viable option.

This justification is bullshit. Obi-wan is known for being a master tactician and yet he’s refusing Mace’s offer of backup? First of all, between the two of them alone, I’m certain they could have come up with a decent plan. Secondly, Obi-wan had to know that Maul wasn’t going to keep his word. Raydonia was going to burn, regardless of whether Obi-wan came alone or not.

And, in fact, here is Exhibit A of Raydonia burning:

Even if he isn’t fully aware of this, I posit that Obi-wan rejects Mace’s offer not because he wants to save Raydonia on the premise of a very false promise (if he were truly concerned about Raydonia, he would have taken the task force), but because, as the title of this episode suggests - he wants revenge.

And I doubt Obi-wan even admits this to himself, using his “noble-heart” to justify going to Raydonia alone to face a massive threat to both the Republic and Jedi in the middle of a war headed by the Sith.

By every logical, tactical measurement, Obi-wan should have taken backup. And he outright refuses it because of a personal vendetta. I have more to say about this in another post, but his actions here seem to be part of this cycle of “fall” and “absolution” that Obi-wan goes through in TCW, each “fall” going lower, each act of contrition more extreme. (And it plays into a theory I have that if the war had continued, if events had been just a little different - Obi-wan would have fallen and Dooku would have eventually gotten his most prized pupil.) It also says a lot that in the mirrored situation during the “Siege of Mandalore” arc, Ahsoka is only able to capture Maul because she brought the backup. Or, more precisely put, because Obi-wan authorized the (illegal) backup of he 501st.

Mace, however, isn’t swayed by Obi-wan’s pretty terrible argument. (And for pretty damn good reason.)

But here is where it gets truly bizarre.

What the hell, Yoda? I was trying to figure out the thought process that would lead to Yoda authorizing this. Clearly, it’s not stemming from any military advantage or even thought towards the people of Raydonia. They’re already burnt to the ground, both in Maul’s mind and the Council’s mind (despite Obi-wan’s thin rationalizations).

So then why? If I start with the really wild speculation, I suppose I could say that Yoda had someone form of...Force premonition that Obi-wan going alone to Raydonia would lead to an intervention by Ventress (who Yoda did sense was kicking and ambivalent about her role in the war) which would lead to Ahsoka’s trial and eventual acquittal which would lead to Maul being captured on Mandalore which would lead to the Duel on Malachor which would lead to Luke finding Grogu -

Yeah, you know what?

NO way that’s true. Not even Palpatine could see that far into the future so I can BS on that idea.

So why send Kenobi alone?

I think this harkens to what we see later during the “Wrong Jedi” arc.

If Ahsoka’s trial was her great test, then Maul’s reappearance was Obi-wan’s. Both Mace and Yoda have to know that Obi-wan was teetering on the Dark Side when he beat Maul all those years ago (in fact, the TPM novelization basically states Obi-wan harnesses some Dark Side to beat Maul in his rage.) Mace wants to bring backup, for very practical reasons but also probably keep tabs on an Obi-wan who was at severe risk of becoming unbalanced.

Yoda, on the other hand, sends Obi-wan alone to face his past, to face his darkness and overcome it (in the middle of a war with the Sith where the balance of power could have shifted significantly if Maul and Dooku and Sidious were able to coexist in the same room without the threat of first-degree murder).

And here’s the thing. Both Obi-wan and Ahsoka FAIL this test. Ahsoka walks away from the Jedi, Obi-wan gets the snot pounded out of him, taps into his rage (this is not a man in control of himself),

...and then lets a war criminal go free in exchange for her help, all of which set up the disaster that Mandalore becomes in later seasons. In fact, Obi-wan doesn’t pass this supposed test until over 20 years later, on Tatooine. And...is it worth everything that occurred between this episode and “Twin Suns”? Could Yoda have foreseen all of this? Highly unlikely. It’s nice poetry, but at what cost?

Which leads to another interesting observation - if Yoda feels this is Obi-wan’s test, then both he and Mace feel Obi-wan is more than capable of flirting with the Dark Side. (Yes, all Jedi are, of course, but this seems rather pointed for a man who is considered the pinnacle of Jedi-ness). Again, I have another long post gestating about this topic, but I doubt Mace and Yoda didn’t notice some signs of Obi-wan’s slow fall and attempts at absolution (it’s almost like the habits of an addict - fall, swear off the sauce, and than fall again, even lower) throughout TCW, but between the pressures of the war and trust in Obi-wan, they didn’t see it as a huge threat.

So after Obi-wan leaves for his Revenge Tour, Mace explains, rather diplomatically, that he thinks Yoda’s idea is hot garbage and that his (Maul’s) -

Yes, and Obi-wan at least does learn from this, as stated above...eventually.

Oh, Yoda. This is where I feel the Coucil lost their way. Again, Dooku’s famous quote about Yoda and the Council from the Clone Wars novelization:

"The Jedi Order's problem is Yoda. No being can wield that kind of power for centuries without becoming complacent at best or corrupt at worst. He has no idea that it's overtaken him; he no longer sees all the little cumulative evils that the Republic tolerates and fosters, from slavery to endless wars, and he never asks, 'Why are we not acting to stop this?' Live alongside corruption for too long, and you no longer notice the stench."

It could be argued that Yoda is placing this “test” of Obi-wan above the people of Raydonia, hell, the entire Republic, in priority. Raydonia is collateral damage, and if Obi-wan fails his test, so are many planets in the Republic (which is *exactly* what played out). I suppose, in the very end - again, 20 years later on Tatooine - this was resolved and Luke Skywalker was saved to eventually help redeem his father and destroy Palpatine but...that only really makes sense in hindsight and overlooks the bad decisions the Council and specifically Yoda, are making in real-time.

And Mace is not convinced here. Too many things could go wrong. Maul could escape. Obi-wan could be killed. Obi-wan could possibly turn, or at least “darken,” so to speak.

“Trust in the Force,” Mace might say, “but all others pay in credits.”

#hello there #long post #obi wan kenobi #darth maul #mace windu #yoda #raydonia #meta #well i dont know where *that* little analysis came from but #hey it's my weekend right now so enjoy the fruits of my spare time #and yes i will write that obi wan falling post at some point

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psychotakublabs · 3 years ago

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We can all agree we did not see “Creepy Luz” coming. It was originally a theory created by It’s Rebecca Rose from figuring out who sent the letters. Turns out it was an actual double of Luz who is now impersonating her in the Human Realm. There is little to be known about this unknown person so for now they will be dubbed “Creepy Luz”. All we know is they have been sending letters to Camila since summer camp (which explains why Camila was so calm and happy during the texts), identical to Luz, and are impersonating her to take over her life. There are a few possibilities as to what Creepy Luz might be.

1) Doppelganger

Doppelgangers are unbiological and unrelated doubles of a living person. It’s translation from its original German meaning is “double-walker”. In folklore, myths, and fictions doppelgangers are seen as harbingers of bad luck, evil twin/self, or an alter ego. A doppelganger is an exact copy of the original person and even has the same feelings, experiences, and emotions. Basically nothing good comes from a doppelganger. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doppelg%C3%A4nger explains more about doppelgangers. If you read the link you will notice a common theme in fiction, media, and folklore: a doppelganger is the double of a person with ill intent. Creepy Luz could be a doppelganger either from a rift in another world or from the Boiling Isles. If this is true, from how ominous Creepy Luz is, their reason for impersonating Luz will come with bad intentions. In the Camila clip in the trailer, we see red lines connecting to a newspaper clipping of a hooded figure with a staff and a key. We initially thought it was Camila looking for her daughter, but what if it’s Creepy Luz either trying to find their way back to the Boiling Isles? Would be counterintuitive as they want to impersonate Luz but we don’t really know why. Dana did mention she loved the “evil doppelganger theory” but kept it quiet probably for this reason (respect for keeping the secret so well). Now there are holes in this such as how did this doppelganger come into existence (probably magic but by whom?), their reasoning for going back to the Boiling Isles, how does Creepy Luz sound mechanical if they are an exact copy, and why Luz since she went to the Boiling Isles by accident.

2) Changeling

Changelings are human-like creatures (usually fairies but not exclusively) that have been left in place of a human stolen by fairies. In folklore, changelings are usually switched from sickly or underdeveloped newborns and either stay with the human family or return to the realm of magic. There are rare instances where changelings do switch with grown humans (usually for marital reasons or for nurturing the young). Sometimes a changeling does not know they are one and usually exhibit unusual behavior when left alone. However, there are some instances where they do know about their identity and want to return to their fairy family. Sometimes the human child switched will also stay with the fairy family. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Changeling explains more about changelings. Creepy Luz being a changeling could be likely. It is not impossible for a changeling to switch with someone after childhood and their reasoning could be outside of marital and nurturing reasons such as wanting a family of their own or just messing with Luz. Like their name, they can change into a human and be a copy of the one they wish to impersonate. It does not mean they can copy their experiences, feelings, or emotions which would explain why the letters looked mechanical and the misspelling of Luz. However, they are trapped in the Human Realm and from the Camila clip in the trailer may be trying to find their way back; they know their identity as a changeling and want to go back to the Boiling Isles. Interestingly, changeling folklore is theorized to be derived from children who were born underdeveloped or abnormally (deformed, disabled, or neurodivergent). In autistic culture, some adults have identified with changelings for this reason and for feelings of being in a world where they do not belong and not being the same species as others around them. The creator confirmed Luz is neurodivergent and I would not be surprised if the team made Creepy Luz a changeling because of the history and folklore behind them. Only holes in this theory are why they chose Luz, how they were able to impersonate her so well, and how much of a copy is Creepy Luz to Luz.

3) Shapeshifter

Shapeshifters are beings that can physically transform their bodies at will through inherent ability, divine intervention, magic or sorcery, demonic manipulation, or spells. Shapeshifters mostly shift into animal forms in folklore, myths, media, and literature. But that does not mean there are stories of shifting into human forms. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shapeshifting explains more about shape shifting. Usually done with animals turning into people but the myths/powers of shapeshifters is very flexible in fiction. It wouldn’t be far off for Creep Luz to be a shapeshifter. Probably a creature from the Boiling Isles who saw Luz and decided to shift into her, has some ill intentions or other reasons for stealing/impersonating her life, and used the summer camp to learn human culture. However, this only implies there are shapeshifters that can turn into humans, why impersonate humans to begin with, and how long they can hold out.

4) Clone

An interesting theory out there is Creepy Luz is a clone of Luz. Both in fiction and reality, clones are exact copies of an object, organic and/or man made. In fiction, a clone is usually copying a person for either experiments, research, labor/army force, or to extend one’s life span through another. In this case, it seems cloning Luz is for another plan outside those reasons. Since Creepy Luz went to summer camp, there is a theory that the camp cloned Luz. In the beginning of the series, Eda explained that folklore and myths are caused by leaks from the Boiling Isles. Although rare, like humans coming to the Boiling Isles, it could be possible for residents from the Boiling Isles to slip into the Human Realm. Maybe a creature from the Boiling Isles was able to clone Luz from their magic and has some reason for doing so. However, there are holes in that theory such as reasons for a camp doing that, how they would clone Luz when she never went, and no information on said camp. If Creepy Luz is a clone, it was most likely done by some type of magic in the Boiling Isles. It could be from someone who has watched Luz for a while or it just happened out of nowhere. This theory does not have much merit as clones are usually scientific (Belos does use technology but doesn’t know about Luz until coming to the Boiling Isles) and there is no one who would want to clone Luz besides the camp or Belos/other magic organization. Still worth mentioning at least since Creepy Luz was already a surprise to us.

5) Another Creature Entirely/ Non-Existent

Creepy Luz could be an entirely different creature all together. “The Owl House '' does take some of the residents from folklore in fantasy genres and ancient mythology but there have been creatures who are unique in the show (Tiny Nose, Warden Wrath, Grometheus, Hooty, etc). Creepy Luz could be a new creature from the Boiling Isles. Which means we have absolutely no idea what Creepy Luz actually is. All we know is Creepy Luz sent letters to Camila meaning they went to summer camp, seem to have a vague concept of what Luz and Camila’s relationship/interactions are, probably got Luz’s personality from the letters and interaction with Camila, knows about the Boiling Isles and wants to go back somehow, and has the ability to appear as Luz. There have been other theories going around in the fandom as well. Creepy Luz could be an illusion conjured by another witch. However, this means there was a witch watching Luz this entire time even before entering the Boiling Isles. Not impossible as there is a mysterious hooded figure from the trailer. But it would entail that they have a connection to the Human Realm or have access to see the Human Realm and have magic powerful enough to sustain Creepy Luz in the Human Realm. It’s not impossible but I think Belos would notice and try to get rid of them. Either this witch is crafty or Belos’s men are not doing a good job. Another theory is that Creepy Luz doesn’t exist and is just a hallucination from Camila’s stress and sadness of Luz missing. There are instances where if the trauma is too much, the brain can cause hallucinations that are very real to cope with. However, Camila seemed okay in ‘Enchanting Grom Fright” and “Keeping Up A-fear-ances” and interacted with Creepy Luz normally. The home also looked well kept and organized and nothing seems to be out of the ordinary. She also received physical letters and it’s not possible she wrote them herself because she knows Luz’s name and what they do for activities together. Camila also looks content that she received texts from Luz so she does not know she is missing from camp. This theory is probably the most far-fetched, but it’s worth mentioning at least. Honestly Creepy Luz can be anything from the Boiling Isles which means we have no idea what they are yet.

Now let’s get to how this affects Camila. We will see her again as there is a clip of her in the trailer we have not seen. However, it will not be towards the end of Season 2A (either 9 or 10). Now there are episode titles and descriptions of episode 9 and 10 but because they have not been officially released by Disney, I will not comment on them too much. From the short time we see Camila it seems she is doing okay and is under the assumption Creepy Luz is Luz. Now one would think Camila would notice changes in Luz. Creepy Luz is cunning and smart by going to the camp to not only study Luz and human culture but to fool Camila. Camila sent Luz to camp to help with her impulsive creativity and to fit in a little (does not make Camila a bad mom, I will rant about that later). Seeing her daughter change wouldn’t be a red flag for her. However, their ruse will not last for long. In the clip, we see Camila smiling until she puts the phone down and starts frowning. This is either a response to the messages from Luz or a response to Creepy Luz and their odd answers or behavior. She may start to think Creepy Luz suspicious and notice something is off. Even notice the newspaper clippings and conspiracy theory boards are off instead of Luz just being her usual weird self. Once she distances herself from Creepy Luz, she will look at the messages Luz sent (if they are sent) and wonder who this imposter is. If the messages haven’t been sent, then she will find out herself about Creepy Luz being an imposter (behavior, appearance, secret journals, interactions, etc). From seeing many scenarios from the fandom either two things will happen. 1) Camila will confront Creepy Luz and find out they are an imposter. Whether physical combat happens or they just go into a verbal confrontation, Creepy Luz’s disguise will falter and this may send Camila in an angry panicl. 2) Camila will keep interacting with Creepy Luz to find out more about Luz’s whereabouts. She will keep her knowledge of Creepy Luz a secret to find her daughter. However, this will create tension and both will slip up their true intentions. Now depending on what Creepy Luz is either their intentions are as simple as just messing with people or sinister like taking over Luz’s life for a purpose. We have to remember “The Owl House” is a horror comedy so there is bound to be some silliness either in the confrontation or Creepy Luz. However, from the conspiracy board, it seems Creepy Luz may want to go back to the Boiling Isles. Depending on their motives for that (if not related to Belos) the two may actually work together. Camila will help Creepy Luz get back to the Boiling Isles and Creepy Luz will help Camila find her daughter. Now this is only if that is the intention of Creepy Luz. There could be other intentions such looking for something for the “Day of Unity” (if related to Belos) or simply wanting Luz’s life. I do hope we get a confrontation with Creepy Luz, stating Camila accepted them easily because she wanted a normal daughter instead of Luz. Camila will be saddened because Creepy Luz is not all wrong but also becomes angry and realizes she does love Luz no matter her weirdness (again will go on a separate rant about Camila in another post). This will spur Camila further into finding Luz. However, this is just an imagined scenario in my head. The main point is Camila will find out about Creepy Luz’s true identity. Honestly, Creepy Luz was just a theory until now confirmed. I am excited to find out what Creepy Luz is, their intentions, and how Camila will find out/react to it. If you have any thoughts about Creepy Luz please comment I’d love to hear em!

#the owl house #season 2 #creepy luz #imposter luz #luz noceda #doppelganer #evil twin #toh #toh luz #toh theory #toh spoilers #the owl house spoilers #toh camila #emperor belos #changeling theory

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