#Billy's mom and max's dad were both hunters

[theladycarpathia]

“What are you?” Billy demands, finger already resting on the trigger. He’s glad that Max isn’t here, that he left her at the diner doing research. Because the man in their motel room has  broken past the hex marks, the warding, every anti-demon trick that they ever learned from their parents or from Hopper. He’s sitting on Billy’s bed, flicking through Billy’s mom’s journal like he has the right, and the sight of her neat writing under his long fingers makes Billy’s blood boil with rage. 

“Hey, I could be a hunter for all you know,” the man says easily. He looks completely normal, with soft brown hair falling into his dark brown eyes and brushing the top of his blue polo shirt. But Billy snorts - since he came back from Hell, he’s all too good at sensing when something isn’t quite human. And despite the pink tongue brushing that full bottom lip, the mismatched socks poking out from clean white sneakers, Billy knows that this thing isn’t human.

“You’re not,” Billy says in a low voice, aiming right for the center of its forehead. “You’re the thing that’s been following us since I got topside. The gas station, that motel in Utah, the car radio. So I’ll ask again - what the fuck are you?”

But the man looks up with a bright smile. “You knew that was me?” he asks, sounding genuinely pleased. 

“It had to have been you,” Billy mutters, unwilling to admit the truth. Hell changed him so much, giving him extra edges, and sharpening the ones he already had. He feels the trickle of cold down his neck at every demon that walks by, the bile that rises in his throat in the presence of a witch. And since he rose, there’s always been something following him that makes him feel…

Billy swallows. He doesn’t want to react to this creature.

“I’m only asking once more,” he spits, taking a step to the side to get a better shot. “What are you?”

“Steven,” the thing answers, and carefully closes the journal. “You can call me Steven.”

Billy pauses. Right. Not exactly the name of a monster that he was expecting. 

“That doesn’t really answer my question,” he says, but Steven doesn’t seem to care. He places the journal back where he’d found it, tucked inside Billy’s duffel, and rises from the bed.

“Your mother was a gifted hunter,” Steven muses, eyes flicking around the motel room like he’s in a museum staring at a particularly interesting exhibit. Billy’s leather jacket, the badly hidden porn mags (he still has to share a room with Max after all, it’s not like they have the funds for two rooms,) the packet of nicotine patches. “You take after her.”

“What the fuck do you know about my mother?” Billy says, stunned. He hasn’t seen his mother since he was seven, the day she walked out. It turns out that between her father and the demons, the demons were the monsters that she could take. He’s been hunting with Max for five years now, ever since she was old enough to, and they’ve never once caught a break. Abigail Hargrove seemingly vanished off the face of the Earth.

“She’s not dead, if that’s what you mean,” Steven says, looking away from Billy’s Led Zeppelin t-shirt. Billy’s breath catches in his throat. 

“What?” he breathes. He’s spent so long….in every town they visit, in every state, he hunts in the local directory searching for her name. It occurred to him long ago that maybe she changed it, wanting to be sure that Neil couldn’t find her. But it was also ensuring that her son couldn’t find her. And that hurt.

“Oh, she’s alive,” Steven says easily.  “And hiding. Your father wasn’t the only reason she had to leave. There’s a powerful demon out there…I believe you’ve met the Yellow Eyed demon already?”

“Vecna,” Billy says, mouth sour with every syllable. That fucker had already toyed with him, and especially with Max when he’d been gone. Vecna had invaded her every nightmare, and even her waking moments, taunting her with the idea that it was her fault that Billy was dead, that she could have done more.

It was all lies. Billy would have died to save Max a thousand times over. Even if he’d ended up spending a thousand years in hell, Max is all the family he has. 

Or so he thought. 

“Yes,” Steven agrees darkly. “I’m afraid that he has plans for you and Maxine…and your mother.”

“Can we find her?” Billy asks desperately. He barely remembers her but he still dreams of the floral perfume he used to wear, her favorite sunhat dangling from her fingers, how she’d sing the Beach Boys around the house. But then she was gone and the singing stopped.

He loves her. He misses her. He hates her. He wants to know more than anything why she’d left him behind.

But maybe she didn’t have any choice. 

“We can,” Steven says firmly.  “We have to. Vecna wants to open the gates to Hell into this world and we don’t have a lot of time to stop him.”

“And we’re the ideal candidates for world saving?” Billy snorts, glad for a reason to pull his eyes away from Steven’s. It’s probably just a meat suit and if so, Billy has no right to be admiring the thick lashes of some possessed bastard. “Hate to tell you this but you’ve got the wrong people. I just got back from Hell and Max is all sorts of fucked up about it. We’re your regular salt and burn hunters, okay? We’re not heroes.”

“I disagree,” Steven says, tilting his head like he can’t quite work Billy out. “No matter what you think, you are worth it. And the only hope the Earth has is you and Maxine. That is why I pulled you from Hell.”

Billy blinks and then suddenly, Steven is standing right in front of him, having cleared the whole room in less than a second. Billy swallows. Fuck. This thing is so, so powerful. They’d thought as much, from what Murray had told them…but shit. 

“You did…what?” Billy croaks. They’d always wondered what the fuck had pulled him from Hell. Honestly, he’d half expected Max or someone to have pulled some shit to get him out. A crossroads demon, or Yellow Eyes perhaps. He didn’t know anything else was capable of breaching Hell, all to rescue one human. 

He raises the gun - the one that he’d forgotten about in all this and had let fall to his side - and aims it once more at the thing’s chest. 

“I’m going to ask once more, Stevie,” he says, in the calmest voice he can manage, even though every inch of him is trembling in fear. “What are you?”

The room almost closes in, like every piece of oxygen has been sucked out of it. Or maybe it doesn’t get smaller, maybe the creature in front of him gets bigger. The lights flicker furiously overhead and the shitty TV crackles and then explodes. Billy shields his face from the sparks, cursing internally. Shit. They’ll have to leave before they get charged for that.

When he looks back at Steve, he doesn’t know if this is the most frightening or most beautiful thing he’s ever seen. The deep brown eyes are now glowing with an other-worldly blue, the same color light that ripples under his skin.

“I don't really have time for your bullshit now, William Hargrove,” Steven says, stepping so close to Billy that he can feel the sparks off his skin. There are large shadows unfurling and spreading across the wall behind him, visible in the flickering lights. For a moment, Billy can’t make out what they are but when he does, it upends everything he thought he knew about the world and the monsters in it. They’re wings. 

“I’m an angel of the Lord,” Steve says somberly. “And we have work for you.”

[kaypeace21]

I know I've mentioned it before and it's a total crack theory (don’t take this too seriously). But the possible hints that lonnie may be El's bio dad are kind of crazy.

ps: last point explains why I don’t believe Andrew is El’s dad. Long story short- i read all the novels and comics (they contradict the canon show in various plot-significant ways and are probably not canon). And if they wanted to surprise people- Andrew would certainly be a good misdirect. Let’s begin...

background: in s1 We see Hopper with his daughter (who is holding a tiger plushie). And in s3 we see Hopper attack a soviet in a carnival ride which has tiger decor. The ride warns the soviet of a tiger. Then the tiger growls as Hopper yells(aka Hopper is symbolically the ‘tiger’). So like tigers connect to him and his daughter. we even see Hopper’s hairband in the shot (another connection of father and child).

Ok... so what’s my point?

1.well lonnie has many name meanings.one is "lion". We see in s1 el and Will have lion plushies (similar to Sara's tiger plushie). Hopper sees Will's lion plushie and has a flashback of his daughter with her tiger. So... like... cat plushies maybe hint at paternity??!!!

Also Lonnie is lowkey the embodiment of lion-fathers lol...

2. A witness sees el, hopper asks "could it be lonnie's kid?". Witness: "it could have been . yeah that’s (pauses). I mean, yeah could’ve been". Suspish. But maybe nothing...  I know the literal reason for this scene is for Hopper to think El is Will. But it’s still weird verbiage...and also makes you wonder WHY they look so alike.

3. Jane is the feminine form of the name jonathan. But also... Lonnie and Elenor ( they called El this in  s1) have the same name meaning . Coincidence...maybe???

4. Lonnie is known for being a hunter. Teresa/terry (El’s mom) also means “huntress”. El is compared to princess Dianna (wonder woman): Diana is the roman goddess of hunting. Lonnie is also dating cynthia ( Cynthia means “the hunt”and  cynthia is another name for DIANA). So maybe he has a type (woman who have names associated with hunting)- and he had a kid associated with “hunting” too-via the Dianna parallel. I joke.But it’s another weird name parallel. 

5. El's storyline is heavily based on star wars and she's directly paralleled to Luke. Again luke has an estranged opposite-s*x sibling. The duffers are twins - so they prob loved that star wars plot twist that luke and Leia were separated siblings all along. Also them being related could explain their resemblance (and past parallels) . Thor ragnarock was also on the s4 inspo list- thor realizes he had a secret 1/2 sister.

6. Why is Lonnie always associated with yellow flowers?? talked about all the examples here, and the possible symbolism. But... bro in s1 even has a sunflower blanket (Which is also linked to Terry and her daughter El in s2). Also why was a car that looked like the Byers car in the Terry flashback... I want answers XD

7.Lonnie started flirting with joyce despite having a live-in gf (in her 20s) , that was half his age. Would I be surprised if , when younger,  he had an affa*r with a college student while married. Not really. He's at the very least... a d0uche.

8. Lonnie made jonathan hunt a rabbit. Jane/el is associated with rabbits. In s1 when she first escapes Benny's: the song "white rabbit " plays as she runs from her papa. And her room at Terry's is covered in the white rabbit decor (from the alice in Wonderland story).could just be a parallel of lonnie/Brenner being horrible dads. I mean both Brenner and Lonnie tried to make their kids k*ll animals. 

9. Also no I don't think Andrew from the prequel novel is her dad. I read all the novels and comics fyi. The novels and comics constantly contradict the cannon show. Max novel says she met billy a year before s2 and that's when they became stepsiblings : s3 shows they met as little little kids (when billy is like ... 12 at most). And not saying how, but i saw the S4 opening clip- it proves in very plot-significant ways that " 6 & into the fire" st comics are 100% NOT canon. So why do people blindly believe Andrew is her dad, cause the novel? Literally Andrew would be a perfect idea to get people to stop wondering about El's bio dad. 

And if there's foreshadowing for later seasons in the comics/books- it's probably little eastereggs they were told to incorporate . But , regardless, how convenient a random-normal, de*d guy, with no plot relevance (who is never mentioned in the show) is supposed to be her bio dad. And make everyone stop wondering about El's dad. It certainly stopped people from asking questions about el's paternity- i'll give them that. I wouldn't even be surprised if adding Andrew was an intentional misdirect. EVEN I DON’T 100% BELIEVE IN THIS THEORY, but please stop using the st novel as proof against it cause ... like I said it’s the books/ comics don’t really seem canon at all. XD

[neonponders]

Hawkins Wolves

I have this gif/post saved and here we go:

Fraternity Twin Harringtons

(cue Billy sweating in the background)

Bryan and Steve Harrington.

Bryan is older, has the grades (A and B averages, still great), and the name from their dad’s Scottish heritage side.

Steve is the younger twin, more athletically endeavored, and named from god only knows. He used to lie and say it was from their mom’s Greek side, just so people would stop talking about his nose. Bryan loves it and totally went with it, because hello? They have the same nose. And the same eyes and brow bones. Bryan has the narrower, V-shaped jawline while Steve’s is more square. The same hair, even if Bryan keeps his nape short and Steve’s not afraid of a mullet.

Frankly, they’re damn near identical when standing next to each other. They’re not joined at the hip, though, and are very much known as brothers instead of twins.

So Billy meets Bryan first.

Bryan is kind of an anomaly. He’s popular, and for good reasons (smart, and jaw-dropping attractive), but he tags around with Jonathan Byers. During a smoke break, Billy follows them down to a creek bed running around the school. He finds them on some boulders: Bryan is modeling up high, and Jonathan is squinting through his camera talking about lighting and, “There’s a spider web there. Watch your foot.”

Long story short: Billy likes Bryan. He doesn’t act on it, per say, but he does become a part of this portfolio pair - Jonathan practicing shutter speeds, etc., and Bryan building up a modeling portfolio.

It’s fun. It’s something to do. Billy particularly enjoys the action shots they get around the fields of Hawkins. Who knew modeling actually took work?

Then a dark red BMW parks on the side of the road behind Billy and Jonathan’s cars. The latter turns around, concerned by the sound, but Bryan reassures, “It’s my brother.”

Billy’s first thought is: Thighs.

His second is: Shoulders.

He can see immediately that the two are related but the brother is more filled out, athletically, and - “How old is he?” Billy can’t help but ask.

“About three minutes younger than me,” Bryan smiled.

The guy trots down the slope into the field to speak for himself. “Bry, if you skip breakfast again, you’re gonna be modeling for a Halloween store.”

“Not all of us have two-a-days, Vivi. I don’t need a truckload of calories.”

Vivi?

He waves a tin foil parcel in the air. Billy wondered if it’d be worth commenting on it being almost 5pm (”Golden hour!” Jonathan called it.), but he stayed quiet. “Do you know how hard it is to keep hash browns crispy? Eat your friggin’ burrito.”

“Yeah. Like you didn’t make that fresh because you ate mine during English.”

He catches the breakfast burrito when it’s thrown at him, though, and Billy is left with him while Jonathan switches cameras and film. He held his hand out and introduced himself, “Steve.”

“Ah,” Billy exhaled understanding and shook. “Billy. I’ve heard your name around.”

“My brother’s obsessed with me. It’s a twin thing.”

Said twin flipped him off in between massive bites to his burrito.

Billy corrected, “No, something about a keg record. That I beat last weekend.”

Steve took that with grace as he nodded. “Did you puke?”

Billy frowned. “No. It wouldn’t be a beaten record, then. Come to think of it, why didn’t I see you at the party?”

Bryan intercepted, “Too busy moping. He’s fresh off a break up.”

Jonathan coughed and looked like he was trying to climb into his camera bag. Billy peered between the three of them, unable to read exactly what was happening.

Steve flicked the end of his nose and leaned into a walk. Billy took that to mean he wanted a conversation alone. He didn’t expect the topic.

As they strolled by an acre of unclipped wheat, Steve hovered his hand over the fronds and said, “I’ll only say this once because I’m not his mother, but I did lose the race out of the womb. If you take advantage of my brother, I’ll put your dick in the trophy case at school next to my State trophy.”

Billy couldn’t decide which to address first: how this small-town, high school priss figured Billy out, or that he actually thought himself capable of intimidating him. Steve wore a goddamn polo underneath a sweater, for Christ sake.

Billy went with, “That’s going to make it easy for investigators to connect some dots.”

“You get my point - ”

“Yeah, I get your dull point, pretty boy. But I’m not going anywhere. I’m stuck in this shit town and it’s nice to have something to occupy myself.”

Steve stopped walking and blinked at him. “Are you modeling?”

Billy smirked. “Why? Like what you see?”

Steve’s lips pressed together a little, those large irises wandering his face before he admitted, “Nice eyes.”

And that was that.

He just left Billy in the field and strolled back to his car.

It was up to Billy to discover that Steve wasn’t the air-headed, athlete brother. Out of the two of them, Steve was the bad boy. The baby of the family with polos and clean Nikes and spare cans of mousse and hairspray for himself and his twin under the passenger seat of his car. Father-dearest’s old BMW.

And a bat with nails in his trunk.

He still couldn’t compare with the queers in mosh pits of California, but Billy discovered he kissed a whole lot better than them anyway. He cliff-dove in the frigid quarry because that’s how the swim team selects its captain. And if Billy joined him just to see those nips puckered to cut ice, only to get shoved into the water too, who is he to complain?

Steve Harrington made him pop a boner in late November waters and then took him home for a blow job in a hot shower and homemade pot pie.

Yeah, Bryan was a looker, and Steve sometimes degraded himself as second rate, but they both showed up at the Hargrove house one night. Billy hadn’t known Steve knew his stepsister, but Max let both of them through her window, and they might’ve saved Billy’s life.

Billy would never call either of the twins bad boys out loud. But as Steve drove them - Billy, Max, Bryan, even Susan - back to the house in Loch Nora, Billy thought their faces in the dim street lighting looked like wolves. Pointed, soft, and ready.

Wolves were considered bad all the time.

Bad. Beautiful. Hunters. Thieves.

Billy earned worried and confused glances around the car when he laughed. He sat up to lean into Steve’s space and purr, “Steal me away any time, baby,” and kissed a bloody print on his jaw.

“Huh?” Steve blurted.

“He has a concussion,” Bryan declared.

[douxreviews]

Supernatural - ‘Lebanon’ Review

What a lovely episode. It didn't feature a huge battle or the culmination of a major story arc. It wasn't a musical production with a large cast. It was small and personal, and deeply emotional.

Clearly, Sam should have been the one to wish for his heart's desire, because I bet it would have been what they wanted, that Dean be free of Michael. Instead, Dean held the pearl, and what he wanted more than his own life was his father back. Not a surprise, but it says a lot about Dean, doesn't it? That he wanted John Winchester more than he wanted to be free of the probability of eons of suffering? That in Dean's heart, just like when he went to Hell, he still doesn't believe he deserves to be saved?

This heartfelt Winchester reunion would have seemed bogus if John and his boys had just fallen into each others' arms. John, an active hunter fresh from 2003 who got dropped into the darkened bunker with his sawed-off in his hands, had trouble recognizing his own sons as they are in 2019, and who could blame him? It was almost a miracle that he didn't shoot first and ask questions after.

But once the truth set in, it was lovely. I keep using that word about this episode, but it bears repeating.

The best scene was the one where John apologized to Sam for not being a good father. I honestly believe this was Jared Padalecki's best dramatic scene in the entire series. Sam told John that their argument was a lifetime ago, that he had thought for years of John on the floor of that hospital and how they never got to say goodbye. Sam was crying. John was crying. Of course, I was crying, too.

And during all of the bunker scenes, Dean's heart was in his eyes. This was what he had always wanted: the four of them together, his father expressing total love, pride, approval of him. And I loved how Dean was sensitive enough to leave his parents alone. Mary got to embrace her beloved husband one more time, touch him, kiss him, and I hope they did more than that while the boys were out shopping. Jeffrey Dean Morgan and Samantha Smith did a wonderful job expressing John and Mary's love and deep connection, especially when you consider that these two had only one scene together in the pilot episode way back in 2005. No need to mention that both of them look older. It wasn't important. The two actors aren't old enough to be J&J's parents, anyway.

I thought centering the reunion on a family dinner was, I'll say it again, lovely. These four people have never even had a family dinner together. Sam was a baby when Mary died, and Dean was only four.

Like all of the best Supernatural episodes, "Lebanon" started out funny and ended tragically. Of course the boys couldn't have their father back, and I loved that John was the strong one. John was determined that they all simply enjoy being together one last time. John kept smiling at them, a genuine smile. He stayed positive. He gave Sam closure, and he gave Dean approval. He kept holding Mary's hand as if he couldn't bear to let her go. And he took a bit of it back to 2003 as a dream. It will have to be enough.

The rest of the episode was delightful, too. We've seen way too little of Lebanon, even though the Winchesters have been living there for six seasons. I enjoyed every single easter egg and callback, and I'm sure I didn't catch them all: the clown ghost; Max stealing the Impala like the valet in "Baby;" the Winchesters using the name Campbell, which is Mary's last name and an alias that actually means something to them. The movies at the Lebanon Vista Theatre included Hell Hazers and All Saints Day.

The three kids, Eliot, Max and Bea, got to find out who those two strange brothers were, and thought that monster hunters were incredibly cool. (Well, they are until you need them.) I also loved how Marta the post office clerk melted when Dean flirted with her, while she looked at Sam distastefully. How could anyone but a monster find Sam distasteful? I watched this episode with my son Daniel, who was going, "Yeah, let's take home an entire box of actively evil occult objects, because nothing could possibly go wrong with that." And "It's never a good sign when a teddy bear has no eyes and its mouth is sewn shut." I assume "Precious Pawn" was a reference to Lord of the Rings. Loved the dragon's breath. Laugh out loud.

It was even nice to see Kurt Fuller as the nasty Zachariah again, although I hated seeing Castiel so hateful. It's sad to think of how Castiel would have been without his love for the Winchesters – although it would have been much sadder if Misha Collins hadn't been in the 300th episode. I'm glad Sam thought of the sigil so that he didn't have to kill alt-Castiel. Even though it wouldn't have mattered since time was reset and it never happened.

And the alternate timeline versions of Dean and Sam were a hoot. Especially Sam as a self-help guru with glasses. And kale.

Bits:

— This is Supernatural's 300th episode. Wow.

— There was no credit card for Jeffrey Dean Morgan in the opener. He got an end credit as "special guest star." Thoughtful, although I bet every fan of the show was already spoiled that he was going to be in this one.

— The date was the same as the episode air date: February 7, 2019. Skip day.

— I assume Mary didn't tell John that she's been dating Alternate Universe Bobby.

— The boys were at the pawn shop because of the skull of Sarah Good. She was a real person.

— As has been mentioned before, Lebanon, Kansas is the geographic center of the contiguous United States, a clever choice by the writers.

— The Agents of Doux put together an article on our favorite episodes of Supernatural. What do you think? Should "Lebanon" be on the list? It would absolutely be in my top twenty, that's for sure.

— We're getting a mini-hiatus. The next episode airs March 7.

Quotes:

Dean: (re: the dead pawn shop owner) "They always talk too much."

Eliot: "Where did they even come from? Them, or their weird sidekick with the trench coat? And what about that kid with the dumb Bambi look on his face all the time?"

Marta: (to Sam) "So you want me to give you an underage girl's address?"

Dean: "A serial killer clown. I mean, this is like the best/worst thing that's ever happened to you. You know, 'cause you love serial killers but you hate clowns." Sam: (frantically trying to burn the cigar box) "Yeah. I get it, Dean."

John: "So. You saved the world." Dean: "More than once." John: "Then it's all true. God, the Devil, you boys smack in the middle. Now you live in a secret bunker with an angel and Lucifer's kid." Dean and Sam: "Yeah." John: "And you've done this whole time travel thing before?" Dean: "Few times."

John: "I went out taking out Yellow Eyes. I mean, that was the point, right? Get the thing that killed Mom."

John: "Son, I am so sorry." Sam: "I'm sorry, too. But you did your best, Dad. You fought for us and you loved us. That's enough."

Dean: "According to the internet, you run a law firm and love kale." It's sad that even in the alternate timeline, the boys had no families.

Dean: "I googled me as well. Lot of beheadings."

Zachariah: "Earth, where you're always stepping in something. Come on, Constantine." Castiel: "I don't understand that reference." Zachariah: "You wouldn't."

Dean: (to Sam) "I'm good with who I am. I'm good with who you are." They're not angry young men anymore. They've grown up.

John: "I choose grateful. So to whatever brought us together, we owe you one. Amen."

Supernatural does time travel good. I could probably write about this episode for a few more hours, but I'd better stop here. Four out of four pearls,

Billie Doux has been reviewing Supernatural for so long that Dean and Sam Winchester feel like old friends. Courageous, adventurous, gorgeous old friends.

[andarthas-web]

Why Billy Hargrove needs love more than any other kid on the show

Think about it:

Of all characters, only Eleven and Kali have suffered in a similar way and to a similar extent.

All three of them have been abused both physically and psychologically.

Eleven and Kali got stuck with needles, zapped with cattle prods, maybe even strapped down and operated on.

Billy got the crap beat out of him on a regular basis.

For all three of them, it happened at the hand of a father figure (or, in the case of Eleven and Kali, at the hands of that father-figure’s henchmen).

El and probably Kali too got told that they were special though, and important.

Billy got told he was worthless.

Given the dynamics we see when Neil lays into Billy and what we know about how such abuse usually plays out, it’s safe to say that Billy has been subject to that kind of physical and emotional assault since he was small.

And given how old Billy is now? It’s pretty likely he’s been abused like that for longer than Eleven has been alive.

Thing is… Eleven has something that Billy doesn’t have:

Friends who love her and support her and stand with her.

Family who loves her and supports her and stands with her.

And a way out.

Similar goes for Kali too.

But Billy?

Billy is fucking ALONE.

Isolated.

Billy has no one.

Nobody he can turn to, nobody who will catch him when he falls.

I mean….there’s a few hangers-on, but they’d drop Billy in a hot second if Billy was weak or no longer cool to be around and everybody knows it.

Max isn’t an option, since she’s a lot younger and living under Neil’s roof and control, same as Billy.

Also, Billy’s safety is heavily dependent on Max’s behaviour, since Neil told Billy to take care of her. Which is likely to have two effects: The thought of Max stepping a toe out of line is going to scare Billy to death, since whether she knows it or not, she’s the one holding his leash, and he’s going to heavily resent her for that.

Susan, who is supposed to be Billy’s mom now, just stands by and lets her husband beat and abuse Billy.

Everybody else is a stranger.

Billy can’t run either, he’s a minor.

And even if he weren’t…just like many abused teens and young adults, he is economically still dependent on his father. No means to feed or clothe himself, no way to afford shelter. Nowhere to go.

He’s fucking trapped.

And that’s a fucking terrifying situation to find yourself in.

His only hope of getting out is doing what he can not to upset Neil in the hopes to avoid further beatings and abuse. (Hint: it never really works.)

It’s a bit like a wolf caught in the sharp teeth of a steel trap, bleeding and waiting for the hunter to come and finish the job.

So considering all of this, there’s a pretty damn good explanation for Billy’s abusive behaviour towards Max and to her friends and for the way he’s prone to violently lash out.

And it also means that there’s a damn good chance that once somebody *cough*SteveHarrington*cough* got Billy out of this abusive situation and once Billy got the support he needed, Billy would not only stop being abusive and violent, but would also turn out to be a fucking sweetheart.

And yeah, chances would be good that Billy would apologize and work at making things right with the others.

Something that, by the way, Billy’s unlikely to ever get from his dad, same as El won’t ever get something like that from her Papa.

[jxpper]

Hey uhm what if Billy joins the Hopper-Byers family?

I know a lot of people don’t like him and I didn’t either at first. Then I started writing a Stranger Things/Monster Hunter thing (it’s the best thing I’ve ever wrote) and started toying with the idea.

Maybe Billy’s dad skips town and Hopper ends up taking him in?

He doesn’t do a 360 character flip,but he learns to be better. He’s no boy scout,but he tries to fix things.

-At first he treats it like some strange punishment,feeling like a caged tiger.

He smokes and drinks,but Hopper doesn’t stop. He doesn’t reward the behavior,never hits him either.

It occurs to him about two and a half months in,when they’re all sitting around at dinner that Hopper might actually care for him. Most of the Hopper family is here-Jim himself,his wife Joyce,daughter Janie,and that “zombie boy” Max talked about a couple times-also named William,but currently going by Will. Jonathan,the older son,is away at NYU.

Jim-Billy refuses to call him anything else-asks him how his day was. He pauses,and Janie starts praising her practically-husband,Mike.

He tries to take good care of Janie.

He takes her to school on the mornings that Jim can’t or when Joyce is feeling under the weather,which is more often now and days.(He wishes he could say he was surprised by her announcement,but he wasn’t)

At first,both he and Janie loathed the task-he still felt caged and she just didn’t like him. She liked hanging out with her dad in the morning,or at the very least,her mom.

But soon they both began to cherish their ride to the school,and sometimes Janie wished it could last just a little longer.

He doesn’t see Max very much.

Max spends alternating weekends between Dustin and Steve’s houses,although she lives with her mom at least on paper,occasionally visiting Casa Byers or the Wheelers. Sometimes she even visits Jonathan and Nancy’s apartment,or the Hopper’s new house to visit Janie.

He sees her once,when she’s talking with Janie,popping in to remind the little girl that lunch was going to be ready in a few minutes-Joyce made Macaroni and cheese,with pb&j’s,which he made. When he notices Max he smiles a little and invites her to eat with them.

She accepts and Max can’t think of a time where the teen’s smile has been more genuine.

Or when she had such a good pb&j.

When Kali crashes their Thanksgiving,he asks her on a date. Or rather is coerced into it by Janie.

A proper one,and he brings her flowers-daisies-and picks her up in his car-ridiculous considering the fact that the two are both staying with the policeman and his family.

Which they belong to,of course.

She thinks he’s silly-she’s not staying in Hawkins after all,there’s no mischief to be had.

In the end,they skip the movie and just sit for hours and talk.

They’re not home by curfew,but neither was Joyce or Hopper.

In the end,neither of them were ment to go to Hawkins,but they ended up there.

Somehow, Billy feels like he could call Chief Jim Hopper the father he never had.

He calls him “Dad” at Christmas-and this time it’s no accident.

It feels so strange to him-he once hated his father,but now he has a new one.

Hopper calls him “Son”,and he doesn’t recoil at the words,turning cold and angry at the world,like when Steve mocked the two.

He’s just jealous,Janie told him,he doesn’t know how to connect to his father-and his kids are all rebellious teenagers now,or so they think.

(He doesn’t quite understand that part-animals maybe?-but he doesn’t ask.)

Had he really been so similar,just a year ago?

Perhaps he’s not King Billy Hargrove any more. Maybe he’s just Billy Hopper, rookie firefighter.

He’s still rivals with Harrington,rookie cop.-

Sorry,did not mean to tell such a weird narrative. Not even intended.

HOLY SHIT I ACTUALLY LIKE THIS. I hate Billy but I wouldn’t mind to see him do some work on himself. The point of this illegitimate family is that they take anybody in who needs it. They obviously have to work themselves out a bit but I think that if Billy was to spend some time with Hop, learn from him, he would be alot better of a person. Thanks for the submission! (this is still showing up as my own post, wtf? This is a submission)

[kaypeace21]

Thinking about it, it feels so significant that Will has never shared a scene with his own dad. Not even in flash back. We get multiple scenes talking ABOUT Lonnie and his relationship with Will, but we never actually see them interact. Not a thing. I wonder if there's going to be something obviously off when we finally see them interact, like the vibe Brenner has with El.

Oh, 100% . I agree! Not showing Will & Lonnie interact until s4- the possible season that may allude to Will's powers & past tra*ma (with his dad) being the cause of certain supernatural creatures and human characters being brought into existence ... would make sense.

The demogorgan /Brenner/Lonnie all being in s1-and all returning in s4 is (most likely) intentional. Especially with all the parallels they shared in s1. Brenner=papa. And in s1, as the demogorgan (called 'deep father") chased Will, El was chased by 'papa', and Lonnie came back into the picture. And in s1- the demogorgan attacks a deer (Jonathan mentions his dad forcing him to kill a rabbit/being sad cause he liked the deer-film bambi. The demogorgon also attacks Jonathan while holding a bat & when Will was holding Lonnie's gun. Both things : hunting/baseball were taught by Lonnie. Lonnie can even mean "lion" & "oak tree". Nancy says the demogorgan is "like a lion...eating the deer". She saw the demogorgan eating the deer-via a portal in a tree.

Possessed creel is eyeless , and like the 'eyeless-demonic-demogorgan-father'. The rumors in the s4 paper say either Victor or a 'demon' did it. Even if Creel is innocent and it was the demogorgon or because Creel was possessed... the parallel  between Victor Creel and the demogorgon (deep father) is still apparent.Lonnie - Will's dad- will probably return in s4 .(Will in s3 was even called 'devil's baby' cause Lonnie is similarly a symbolical 'demonic father'' (Like Creel/demorgorgon). Creel's son is an artist like Will. And creel's daughter, Alice (like jonathan) sees a dead rabbit. El's room at Terry's house has the white rabbit from 'Alice in wonderland'- and in s1 the song 'white rabbit' (referencing the novel) plays as Brenner & El see eachother. Max also has a rabbit figurine in her room / Billy's surname "hargrove" means "groove filled with rabbits" And Billy is a nickname for Will-iam.El's mom and aunt's name mean 'huntress' and 'snare'(hunting trap)-and Lonnie is a hunter. Jane -is a feminine form of jonathan, the caananite god El/demogogan both mean 'father', Lonnie /Elenor's names having the same meaning, in s2 the lyric "my name is Willie mccoy' plays as it pans to El. The rainbow & sunflowers- are even connected to the byers, It’s possible Brenner is also working at the pethurst where Creel is now presently, in s4. I could literally go on and on. Like even Hopper has dead deer in his s2-3 cabin, and a deer painting in his trailer in s1.And be made a rabbit pun in s3. And was paralleled to the other dads (via the sinister door symbolism).Plus ...all the sinister flower symbolism of Brenner/ Lonnie/ Neil / Creel (and the demogorgan's face being a flower shape)? Like ... I could list like 30 other parallels-but lol just ... I've said it a 100 times XD .

Honestly... s4 will probably have Lonnie, Creel, Brenner (papa), demogorgan (deep father)... and i'm also worried about if Neil (who has been paralleled to Lonnie via baseball) is still around... and how he is towards Max...

I also discussed how very OFF Lonnie is with jonathan in my " Jonathan & Lonnie analysis ". (There was a lot to un-pack there... Poor jonathan). Ugh I'm just expecting something awful when Lonnie comes back... a lot of drama I'm sure.

[kaypeace21]

DID theory part 3: St novels/comics/spotify list analyses

*read part 2  of DID theory-first! You’ll be lost otherwise, seriously XD. First, I’ll say -I find the ST comics/ books as canon as the st movie inspirations . I don’t consider the books/comics ‘literal canon’ (cause they contradict the show ( like Max and billy meeting a year before s2  in runaway max - but meeting as little kids in s3,  or El’s age being wrong in suspicious minds, in the d&D comic Will’s friends instead of him /Jonathan building castle byers, etc) . 

So I think we shouldn’t take it  literally - but more like the st movie lists - filled with foreshadowing/symbolism and other eastereggs (That the Duffers may have told them to add). So here’s some more (possible) alter / DID hints...

‘Suspicious minds’ novel

- Brenner  equates k*lling rabbits to h*rting kids. And he’ll hurt (kid) Kali (the bunny in the analogy) if Terry tries running away from him . I wonder if Lonnie used a similar threat against jonathan? Jon could be giving only a partial truth to why he cried for a week (about the bunny story)?

-Kali “hops” like a bunny then talks about tigers obsessively (linking her to rabbits/tigers similar to the other alters/Will/Lonnie). Terry also imagines tigers and kali says to Alice they can all be tigers together.

- one of the only male psychic experiments (who can see the future) is gay

- Terry is into lord of the rings, like Will. Has her and her boyfriend dress as sam & frodo (m/m ship). Terry calls her and her friends “the fellowship”.

-when Terry/Alice were injected with d**gs -they hallucinated rainbows.yikes.

- Alice (like Lonnie) is a car mechanic. She can see the future like Will the wise and says “monsters of course my mind has them as long as they stayed in there, everything would be alright? Wouldn’t it?” (in her visions she saw the demogorgan).

 (completed) graphic ST novels (by Jody Hozer) so far  (+ other st comics).

*Jody Hozer writes all the graphic novels (every novel is 4 chapters each) - the will byers comic, number 6 comic , into the fire comic, and at the moment she’s writing the d&d series and the summer camp series (which isn’t done yet). Then there’s the occasional 1 chapter st comics not written by her.

- Number 6 has (the ability to foresee the future like Will the wise/Alice) and has an ab*sive dad. 

When having a nightmare of the demogorgan ...she says as she wakes up “screw you dad” (another hint the demogrgan -aka in d&d means ‘deep father’ ...is Lonnie).

- when number 6 and others run they say they’re’ “rabbiting”(which yes technically makes sense but I found such an uncommon phrase odd.)

- The (summer camp and d&d graphic novels aren’t completed yet) but they establish d&d creatures are based off  real life people the boys don’t like in real life. Or that d&d is used as an outlet to explain true events from their pasts -but they just give the true stories a d&d fantasy slant.

- Which brings me to the halloween oneshot(not by Hozer),taking place before s1. Will tells a scary story told to him by Jonathan, and originally told to him by Lonnie. Says the boys have to keep it a secret cause it was something he was never supposed to tell to anyone. Mike says he has to finish the story he started. It’s about a “ch*lld-eater” monster first attacking a boy near the quarry (like where Will was found) and  attacking kids in a library (where Will was also found in s1).When the child sees the sheriff she bangs on the library door begging for help-he ignores her , walks away, and tells the other cops to never speak of what they saw as she screams for help. Because the previous sheriff was in kahoots with the monster. It def had some ... uh questionable imagery too 0_0

The vine in the mouth is also like the one in Will’s mouth (when Joyce found him in the library).And of course Dustin asks whether or not something like that could be covered up.

- In the “bully  comic” (about troy) also not by Jody. We focus on Troy and his ab*sive dad (who encourages him to fight/ditch his best friend). The dad has a drinking problem (gets fired), calls Troy a “mess” , pushes him, and constantly encourages Troy to be vi*lent/macho. He pretty much tries sabotaging the relationship Troy has with his friend (which I could see Lonnie doing in the future with byler).The dad/troy is framed similarly to when Billy gives Max a ride home-  after both ab*sers give bad advice saying not to hang out with their friend (after witnessing them fight in the school parking lot). Dad also laughs about almost k*lling a squirrel (a trait we see troy mimic)- and we see El feel guilty about k*lling a squirrel in s2. At the end of the comic- Troy (like Will) after making up with his bff james- moves leaving his best friend behind.

-  (into the fire) Twins: (one was normal with no powers living in the real world and the twin with fire powers is trapped in a dark sunless “cold” world styled like a psych facility/medieval fantasy) . pics in link.She hated her reflection cause it reminded her of being betrayed by her normal non powered twin who left her behind in the ‘cold’ place. She’d call herself a ‘hunter’ who would defend herself and attack others to never be hurt again. Her powers being unleashed were described like opening “a door.” And she loves her twin deep down and just wants friends . And fire twin goes to the “other side” to reunite with her reflection and find happiness in the real world. *also there’s sunflower/bunny symbols which she lights on fire-which can relate back to Will/Terry/Lonnie etc. The twins = Will & Will the wise (mf)

Mirrors also connect to Will and Will the wise via the canon spotify playlists too.

Will playlist (song: mirror in the bathroom)-Mirror in the bathroom Please talk free.The door is locked -Just you and me.Mirror in the bathroom recompense for all my crimes of self defense.Cures you whisper make no sense!Drift gently into Mental illness.

Demogorgan playlist ( from perspective of Will the wise aka the mf) (song: are you dead yet? )-”polluted soul through a mirror I behold.Throw a punch, shards bleed on the floor. tearing me apart. but I don't care anymore.Should I regret or ask myself are you dead yet?Wake up, don't cry. Regenerate to deny the truth. The fiction you live in blindfolds your eyes. Disclosure, self loathing, this time you've gone too far.Or could it be, my nemesis, that you are me?

(*st ‘into the fire’ comic. the fire powered twin’s thoughts echo the song)

*I think this foreshadows the later plot points of mf (will the wise ) and Will interacting via mirrors. The fire-wielding twin and the non powered twin had a lot of mirror imagery. Including the fire powered twin (Who denies reality/and imagines herself in a fantasy world) punching her reflection because it reminds her of her non-powered twin. Here’s some cover art from the novels showing how much they emphasize mirrors.

*And in s4 movies Black swan - “the black and white swan twins (two halves of the same person-Nina)” had creepy mirror imagery. In long kiss goodnight the women with DID talks to her “ (supposed)dark 1/2″  via a mirror (in a dream).  in ‘the visit’ the teen girl who’s dad abandoned her when young-  refuses to look in the mirror (and it’s never explained why she hates her reflection). So yes I think we’ll see this in s4 or 5. We already see the mf take on the appearance of Billy when talking to him.

- Will in “zombie boy” comic is afraid he’s a monster.

also lets appreciate the lil byler moment of Mike and Will being the only zombies and mike comforting him. honestly , though, the characters were pretty out of character for most of this 1 ch comic (until the end) tbh.

- in the “d&d comic” mf is  (possibly) described as a “protector” (aka like how i said the mf is probably a perpetrator alter- which are misguided protectors).

*update now that it’s finished... hinting Will created everything subconsciously.

‘Runaway Max’ novel (before s3)

(I didn’t get time to read this book unlike ‘suspicious minds’ -so can’t show screen shots of everything others talked about. May read it eventually)

-Max compares Billy  to ‘her monster’ and a ‘shadow’ that will attack anyone that comes close (mf parallel).

- Dart k*lled a cat,  El’s papa tried to force her to k*ll a cat. And Billy when seeing a d*ad cat lights it on fire for a “viking funeral”. A connection to WW (who has fire powers) and El & dart.

-Max and Billy both are into cars and bond over fixing them (similar to Lonnie’s interest in fixing up cars). And since Lonnie tried to brag to Jonathan about fixing a car up and Will is into tech it wouldn’t be a stretch that Lonnie and Will were into fixing cars together (like Max/billy who would hang out at a autoshop in Cali) .  Similar to Will ,max says hanging with Billy wasn’t always so bad- which made things more confusing to her.

- Max compares Billy being beat up by Neil: to ‘punching a pocket of a baseball glove’. This is interesting since this book was pre-s3 which was when they established the connection of billy and his dad to baseball (similar to s1 saying  Lonnie taught Will baseball).

-Billy’s friend is a nice ‘music snob’ . He tries distracting Max with music while Billy is burning the cat. Which reminds me of Jonathan trying to distract Will from their parents fighting in the next room-with music

- Max’s bio dad is a criminal who takes her to shady bars, and Max fears he’d ‘get bored of her’. Max also ran away from her mom to her dad’s 2x.Which reminds me of Jonathan thinking Will ran to Lonnie’s in s1.

-Max mentions how Billy misses his friends after moving out of Cali. And he starts acting even worse-after the move. Which will probably be the case for Will (at least a bit) when moving to California.

-Billy tells Max Neil isn’t his ‘real dad’ either because Neil can’t be a father to anyone.

-Billy also tells Max who (at the time ) is 12 years old not to act “easy” and breaks her best friend’s (Nate’s) arm over  someone joking he was Max’s boyfriend and also cause Nate tried to get in between Billy bullying Max. Eventually all her Cali friends ditch her cause they’re afraid of Billy.And Ugh- why could I see Lonnie doing something like this in the future with Will/his new friends. 

- Creepily Max says Billy doesn’t fool around with her like other girls not because of her age or being family. But cause she wasn’t ‘attractive’. This whole excerpt gave me the heeby jeebies,on so many levels, honestly.  Almost like he’s jealous- and controlling her cause he doesn’t want Max to have any love interests. Maybe i’m just missing the context? But ugh... excerpt:

Will byers secret Files

-Hopper gets scared by a pumpkin-scarecrow. And in Will’s canon journal when talking about the mindflayer and his nightmares draws the same scare-crow , Hopper saw. There’s also a lot of s4-5 foreshadowing in the book... but that’s a post for another day.

Darkness on the edge of town (Hopper novel)

*didn’t get time to read this (except the preview)

 I think it’s more foreshadowing for future seasons though- cult/supposed ritual k*llings, people being wrongly blamed for those crimes-like the hellfire club , most likely.  (similar to the guy number 3 in the number 6 comic)  saint john in the novel also has the same brain control powers as 3- similar to the mf. .” When a blackout plunges the boroughs into chaos, Hopper must escape the the mobs in the streets to make sure his family is safe and stop Saint John from fulfilling his prophecy.” I already talked about here- how the next few seasons would start having more religious symbolism/a future apocalypse (based on what we’ve seen in the show/s4 movies). Although, i think there’s quite a few differences between (the novel’s) saint john and Will the wise. Hopper is also a star wars nerd like the boys (alter hint)

Canon spotify songs (posted after s2/before s3) hinting at DID/ alter /lonnie stuff-

Will  and Will the wise (aka the mf) being an alter

*Used Will and the demogorgan playlist (which i think has perspectives of Will the wise aka the mf, demogorgan, and Lonnie).

Besides the mirror songs previously mentioned...

Will (cold inside)-Doctor the problem's in my chest.My heart feels cold as ice but it's anybody's guess?Doctor can you help me cause I don't feel right?Better make it fast before I change my mind. Doctor can you help me cause I don't feel right?Better make it fast before I change my mindWell it's cold, cold, cold, cold inside. Darker in the day than the dead of night Cold, cold, cold, cold inside...Counselor give me some advice Tell me how hard will I fall if I live a double life?

El (ghost)-your ghost, the ghost of you.It keeps me awake.My friends had you figured out.Yeah they saw what's inside of you. You tried hiding another you.But your evil was coming through... living in the shade Your cold heart makes my spirit shake.

El (monster Lead me home)-I don't know what, what I was afraid of, I was afraid oooof...Monster take me somewhere...We walk in shadow.Monster lead me home.Where there is no place to hide.Stranger on the other side We walk in shadow.Monster lead me home.

 The’ innerworld’/  other hints Max, El, Hopper, and Billy are alters of Will’s

Max (Logical song)-I know it sounds absurd. Please tell me who I am, who I am, who I am, who I am?

EL(Buzzcut season)-I remember when your head caught flame It kissed your scalp and caressed your brain ...nothing's wrong when nothing's true. I live in a hologram with you Where all the things that we do for fun . Play along (make-believe it's hyper real) But I live in a hologram with you.

Billy (broken bones)-Broken bones.Stay alone. If I see only what I believe -reality's bound by what I conceive

Max (Why can’t i touch it)-Well, it seems so real.I can see it.And it seems so real-I can feel it.And it seems so real-I can taste it.And it seems so real-I can hear it.So why can't I touch it?

Hopper (breakers)-Just to keep me from losing my mind .It's so easy to drown in the dream.Oh, and everything is not what it seems This life is but a dream.Shatter illusions that hold your spirit down ...From the inside, so it seems.Oh, I'm telling you it's all a dream It's all a dream It's all a dream It's all a dream It's all a It's all a dream.”

Max (comfortably numb)-When I was a child I caught a fleeting glimpse out of the corner of my eye.I turned to look but it was gone.I cannot put my finger on it now.The child is grown.The dream is gone.I have become comfortably numb.

Max (Kids aren’t alright)-Still it's hard Hard to see Fragile lives, shattered dreams...What the hell is going on? The cruelest dream, reality.

El(team)-Livin' in ruins of a palace within my dreams. And you know we're on each other's team

Hopper (denial twist) ( just change ‘she’ to ‘he’)-Just because she makes you feel wrong she don't mean to be mean or hurt you on purpose, boy!Take a tip and do yourself a little service...by playing a different role Ya, by playing a different role, oh.The boat ya you know she's rockin' it.And the truth well ya know there's no stoppin' it.So what, somebody left you in a rut and wants to be the one who's in control.But the feeling that you're under can really make you wonder.How the hell she can be so cold?So now you're mad, denying the truth.And it's getting in the wisdom in the back of your tooth

El (the story)-You see the smile that's on my mouth.It's hiding the words that don't come out.And all of my friends who think that I'm blessed.They don't know my head is a mess.No they don't know who I really am.And they don't know what I've been through

El (hero) ( pretty much alludes to El being a construct of Will’s mind similar to his juju zombies in the d&d story he wrote )-Who knows what you'll find when you look inside (billy’s mind)?Haunted beach (billy flashback), roll the dice.The zombies in the corner aren't amused (d&d ref).Play the part of the blushing bride...Out of view, cloaked by night...My spirit dims, but I feel the force"No longer in my hands,"  (loses powers) .I say to you .I could've been a hero, I could've been a zero.Could've been all these thingsI could've been nothing, I could've had something.Could've been all these things.And if I am unable, tell him that I'll try but underneath the table will spin the wheel and hope for gold. Oh, and where it stops, nobody knows.

Max (it’s real)-I don't know who's behind the wheel.Sometimes I feel like I don't know The deal.But when I tell you how I feel-Believe me when I say It's real.I skated on a frozen Sea.It's real as far as I Can see?

Max (Halloween)-Because your role is planned for you there's nothing you can do.

El (White rabbit... alice and wonderland/lonnie ref)-And if you go chasing rabbits, and you know you're going to fall...When logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead.

demogrogan(Dimensions of horror)-Gaze upon the ancient face you dread (lonnie)... Passing through the doors, into Dimensions Of Horror. Haunting visions from the past, rise once more.Realms of darkness, terror, death and gore.Scream in fear, your sanity is lost

demogorgan (SCHORCHED)-Terrorizing madness. Vivid dreams. internal. Hallucinating the unknown. Abstract entities prey.Through superhuman abilities.Fragments of memory erased.

demogrogan (Calling from a dream)-the shadow king...seven spirits (7 ref) Swarming around his head.Close your eyes.Listen to my call. Our bond will bring us together again.I will wait for you. For our hearts still beat as one.Listen to my calling from a dream. (integration?)

 Maybe a coincidence or a hint at Will having both male &female alters?Billy (dude looks like a lady)- What a funky lady...Oh, he was a lady.Dude looks like a lady. Hopper (turn the page)-All the same old cliches,"Is that a woman or a man?" Max ( rebel rebel) (this was on her her pre s3 spotify list + post s3 “wrapped list”)- you got your mother in a whirl, doesn’t know if you’re a boy or girl? 

 SHIT DAD/ AB*SIVE FAMILY

*trigger w*rning ahead for dark themes like s**ual ab*se

demogorgan (my children)My children I never loved them.Why feel that way when their existence is my business?My children...feral vessals of my selfinterest...So don't lean on me man 'Cause I ain't got nothing to give.Don't lean on me man 'Cause I ain't got nothing to give.My children they're right behind you My children they're gonna beat you.My children if you let them Oh, oh, my children.

demogorgan (black dahlia-window):  I’m not quoting the lyrics you can just look it up.  it’s messed up.Based on the 1st person pov of Gilles de Rais -k**ler and p*d*rest who also kidnapped a cleric.

Will (creature comfort)-Some boys hate themselves.Spend their lives resenting their fathers... hate their bodies .Stand in the mirror (another mirror ref) and wait for the feedback.Some boys get too much, too much love, too much touch.

Jonathan’s Playlist- We’re happy family: “Eating refried beans (poverty). Gulpin’ down Thorazines (pills for a mood disorder). We ain’t got no friends (s2 ref). Our troubles never end. Daddy likes men. Daddy’s telling LIES.”

Jonathan’s playlist-Enter sandman: “Don’t forget my son. Sleep with one eye open. Gripping your pillow tight, Exit light, Enter night. Take my hand, we’re off to never-never land. Something’s wrong, shut the light, heavy thoughts tonight. Dreams of LIARS and of things that will bite, yeah. Hush little baby don’t say a word, and never mind that noise you heard. It’s just the beasts under your bed, in your closet in your head.”

Jonathan (The killing moon-guy sings this)-So soon you'll take me up in your arms. Too late to beg you or cancel it. Against your will!He will wait until you give yourself to him...In starlit nights I saw you.So cruelly you kissed me... unwillingly mine.

jonathan (haunted)-You and I both know that the house is haunted And you and I both know that the ghost is me. You used to catch me in your bed-sheets just a-rattling your chains.Well back then , it didn't seem so strange...In the midnight hour..I was busy trying to charm that snake. When the sun came up we had no place to hide...You and I both know that the house is haunted  yeah you and I both know that the ghost is YOU! You used to walk around screaming, all slamming all 'dem doors Well I'm all grown up now and I don't scare easy no more But you and I both know.

Hopper (Confession)-Now I'm on the low Confession, to a virgin ghost Admission, force you know.

hopper (Tomorrow ) Yeah, and back when s*x and amph*tamines were the staples of our childhood physique.

Max (Last caress)-I got something to say.I k**led your baby today.And it doesn't matter much to me.As long as it's de*d.Well I got something to say.I r*ped your mother today.And it doesn't matter much to me.As long as she spread. (Lonnie pov? Neil?messed up song to be on Max’s list)

hopper House of the rising sun- And my father was a gamblin' man Way down in New Orleans... And the only time he's satisfied Is when he's on a drunk

Max Poor relations-An attitude, no patience, he's paper thin.Talking over everything you have to say...Don't correct the things he said, what's the use?Can't handle violence.Can't handle violence.Learning to love the abuse you can't live without.Your familiar oppression, your daily injustice...That loser man that belongs to you, he's ruling you.

el (sweet dreams are made of this)- Some of them want to use you ...Some of them want to ab*se you.Sweet dreams are made of this...Hold your head up.Keep your head up, movin' on.

Max (Alternative ulster)-They say they're a part of you.And that's not true, you know.They say they've got control of you.And that's a lie, you know.They say you will never Be free, free, free

max In bloom-”Sometimes at night I let it get to me.And last night it had me down and feeling NUMB...And thinking back upon those days Way way back when I was young.I was such a little shit.Cos I was always on the run.Well you know just what they say-Just like father then like son.Don't delude me with your sympathy.Cos I can do this on my own.And this will be the last time-That I break down and wanna crawl to bed. “(since Billy has a playlist I found this song choice being on hers instead of his interesting- in fact almost all of Max’s songs are from the 1st person perspective of a boy unlike the other gals.)

Max (comfortably numb)-The child is grown.The dream is gone.I have become comfortably NUMB.

hopper (numb)-Honey, here I go again Down that crooked road of sin.My momma locked me out again And hung me high to rust under the rain I am NUMB( 8x)....Little bluebird at my window Sing a pretty song for me Don't you know that you can fly, fly, fly away Don't you know that you can leave I am numb.

other psych songs

Hopper (life of sin)-Every morning when I rise I look in the mirror (another mirror ref) and despise the sight of everything and all that I've become. The level of my medicating some might find intimidating But that's alright cause' it don't bother me none.

 Max (Moon over marin)- “Dive in my scalding wooden tub (connects to mf/el)...There, wasn't that a nice visit?Don't forget, a psychiatrist is on duty twenty-four hours a day in the blue room...Drink plenty of water when you take these.Now you can relax.” ( I wonder if stranger writers saying to “drink plenty of water” is secretly a line said by a psych person in s4?)

Max (Feeling ok)-My doctor says that I should take it -At least I won't have to keep faking.I know, someday I'll find it-Where I, I least expect it.Today I know I feel ok.

Max ( Going gets tough)-.No home since the fire.Me and the ash can't settle down...So I sink another round-Placebo for pain.And there's no one for to blame . I refuse to accept-That my work is all in vain...Still always remembering .When the going gets tough .That the labor of our love-Will reward us soon enough.

 Max (Comfortably numb)-Hello? (Hello? Hello? Hello?)Is there anybody in there?Just nod if you can hear me.Is there anyone home?Come on now-I hear you're feeling down.Well I can ease your pain .Get you on your feet again.Relax // Now I've got that feeling once again.I can't explain . you would not understand.This is not how I am. I have become comfortably numb.I have become comfortably numb //Okay (okay, okay, okay)Just a little pinprick.There'll be no more, ah .But you may feel a little sick.Can you stand up?I do believe it's working, good.That'll keep you going through the show.Come on it's time to go// Your lips move but I can't hear what you're saying.

Explanations of Why the mf  (WIll the wise)behaves the way he does

demogorgan (ww) (Cowards starved)- friends think of me as a priest.I had to show them that the weakest hands Can still make impressive fires. (aka MF = will the wise)

demogorgan (ww) (Unmerciful):I will be reborn...Tranquil demeanor.Now devoured.Surfacing malice...I can't reconcile the torment others bring unto me.I will not take any reproach.Turning the other cheek.Relentless hatred consumes.Control released.Absolved of all compassion.I am free .Look into my hate filled eyes and tell me What do you see?Surging aura of my rage Paralyzing you in fear.

Demogorgan (ww) (bodies-Beaten why for (why for)?Can't take much more.(Here we go, here we go, here we go).One, nothing wrong with me,Two, nothing wrong with me.Three, nothing wrong with me.Four, nothing wrong with me.One, something's got to give.Two, something's got to give.Three, something's got to give now...You're all by yourself but you're not alone...Driven by hate consumed by fear.

demogrgan (ww)-Orbs used as transmitters carry electromagnetic beams from above (affecting magnetic fields in the show).Silence, manipulated, tortured ...How immune is your system of suffering?Its in the blood of suffering (familial ref).Its in the blood.

 Demogrgan (Monster)-I shoot the lights out..Whoa, just another lonely night...None of who you get it, ain't nobody cold as this.A zombie (will ref) with no conscience .Everybody knows I'm a motherfucking monster. Everybody wanna know what my Achilles' heel is? Love I don't get enough of it.

[kaypeace21]

I really like your theories about Will having powers and they gave me an idea as well. What if El doesn't have powers any more because Will took them. We know he has a connection to the mind flayer so what if MF 2.0 used the leg wound to steal El's powers.

Yes, I actually mentioned that very theory in an old text-post of mine (link of it at the end). I think Will has ESP, lightning/fire powers, and can open portals/ has technopathy (the last 2 powers he shares with El). But he can also create monsters into existence. I mentioned the many examples in a previous video , and a bit in that text post (links of those will also be at the end of this post) . 

But to describe EVERYTHING as briefly as possible. 

Will created everything the demorgorgan, the mindflayer, etc- and his ‘story’ is very susceptible to other peoples’ suggestions . He always asks his friends what he should do when facing the d&d monsters (the demorgorgan/thessalhydra) - and they suggested “fire balling it” both times (which is all the upside-down creatures’ weakness).  In S1 Jonathan/Nancy/Steve light the demogorgan on fire. In S2 they burn the mindflayer out of Will, and burn the vines. S3 they throw fireworks (fireballs) at the monster the mindflayer created.

In  s2 , the gang read (in Will’s d&d manual) that mindflayers (the representation of his abusive dad/the thesalhydra shown at the end of s1) could be killed by zombies. Will was dubbed zombie boy in s2,  and in s3 watches ‘day of the dead’ (a movie about zombies) and then writes a story about juju zombies. Will says in his d&d story “it bites your arm, flesh tears- aaaah!” But instead it bites El’s leg as she screams “ah!” as Mike rips it off her leg.  Than the victims of the mindflayer turn into zombies and become ‘the thing’. Because when Will’s writing his d&d story he’s sitting right next to Mike’s  ‘the thing ‘ poster. 

And because after being m*lested by his dad he probably feels like a monster/ a ‘thing’. In s3, Lucas and Mike even debate which version of the film is better- so obviously the whole gang (including Will) has seen it.  And in s2, he  lies to his mom and says the mindflayer sketch was ‘for a story he’s writing’. But unbeknownst to him that’s what is actually happening. 

However, s3 truly reveals how powerful he is. Because it’s not just monsters he creates . But he can alter reality itself (without a monster having to do it). When Mike hijacks Will’s d&d story saying ‘they’ll torch the chambers, sacrificing themselves’, killing the juju ’.  Will gets angry and yells “Fine, you win.” And then Joyce and Hopper do just that when they pull the lever, and Hopper ‘dies’ sacrificing himself, and the Russians literally are eviscerated. 

And In s2 Nancy describes the mindflayer (but she’s actually describing Will).

“So this thing is like a brain that’s controlling everything.”

Hopper then says “So how do we kill this thing shoot it with fireballs?”

And Dustin says “ No, No, fireballs you summon an undead army.”

But Mike actually nails it on the head when he says, “If the brain dies the body dies … closing the gate will kill him (referring to Will).”

Because it’s not the mindflayers’ brain - it’s Will’s brain! 

The mindflayer is part of Will’s army ( not the other way around). I’m making a video on it, so I wont get into it now (especially since it would be like 30 paragraphs long and it’s just way easier to convince you with all the visual evidence).  But essentially the upside down/ creatures represent Will’s s*xual abuse at the hands of his father. And in s3 almost every main person attacked was r*ped/m*lested by their dad- Heather, Billy, Jonathan, and El. The one exception is Nancy, but she’s targeted because she was r*ped by Lonnie in s1. 

While in s1 and 2…

the scientists - ( that enter the upside down and are brutally killed)- represent Will’s dark thoughts/anger about Lonnie invading his “room”. Since it is where a lot of the abuse took place. We see Will in s1-2 (despite having a sweet demeanor) have a large “no trespassing” sign on his bedroom door. And similarly castle Byers (which he created) has a doorbell and a password - which shows he has serious issues with how much he values privacy (almost excessively).

Barb- Is the part of him, who hates himself for having same-sex attractions and being in love with his best friend (who is also a Wheeler).

And the hunters were killed- because it was said in s1, Will and Jonathan went on hunting trips with their father (where abuse took place)>

While we also see in s2 , all of Will’s father figures being attacked - Hopper with the vines,Dr Owens by the demorgorgan. And sadly Bob (who “was a lot like Will at his age.”). This probably represents his fears of having another father figure- and his subconscious lashing out/attacking them as form of self-defense. And Bob (who was alot like Will) being the one that dies, probably  represents his desire to kill himself in s2, as well.

So in s3 with El…

Will feels alot of resentment towards her. El might have saved him twice (and it might of been an accident/ dr Brenner who’s really to blame). But Will knows she opened the gate . So to him, he spent a week in a place with no sunlight, food, or breathable air , having to experience that vine, dying, getting ptsd, being ostracized by everyone at school and being called “zombie boy” and a “freak”- being possessed by the MF, getting burned alive, killing Bob (the closest thing to a real father figure) and all those men (making him a murderer), and strangling his mom.’Because of her!’Not to mention besides being in love with Mike- he feels like she’s “ruining the party”. Because Mike is acting like an asshole to all his friends when dating her.

And then that’s when s3 starts to make a lot more sense. Will might not want anything bad to actually happen to El but he’s probably had these dark thoughts before.  Will even says about the MF. He says the real Mf is still in the upside down, but ‘the part that was still in him… was still in their world.’ And it flashes to El’s face as he says it. 

Essentially the Mf is motivated by his fictionalized story, thoughts/memories of Lonnie, and any dark intrusive thought Will has ever had about El , much to Will’s horror.He said in s3 that “I’m not worried about me, mom. I’m worried about you.” So the fact that he strangled her and almost killed her in s2, probably haunts him to this day- and he might of thought, ‘wish I strangled her instead’. And who does Billy/Mf look at right before grabbing her throat, and who is the first reaction shot we see when he starts choking her - Will’s horrified expression!

Maybe the Mf thought El was the most important, and that Will was nothing ( despite all the foreshadowing indicating the Mf held special intentions for Will), because he feels like he’s nothing compared to El? Will even says in s2 it wanted to kill everyone, but him, but now it’s saying that to El only? Maybe because Will wanted her to experience having such an entity say it to her too, and experience the same fear and isolation it caused him? In s2, why did the Mf chase Will and possess him at the school, when El (at the same time) was at the school as well (if it was always after her)? It’s because the Mf’s motivations are linked to Will’s feelings/emotions.

He probably also thought, how would you like a slug crawling/invading your body,  like it did to me, huh?And although it doesn’t go to her mouth (probably because he could never wish that on anyone- if it symbolizes what I think it does). She still has a similar experience. And everyone is worried/horrified but Will is the only one sobbing (probably because he thought of this happening to her before).

After this he doesn’t even help move the car, he just stays glued at El’s side as if trying to protect her. And interestingly, this is when El loses her powers. Will may have even thought. If she never had her powers, none of this would have ever happened!

Will was always hinted to have powers from the very beginning.

In the 1st episode, Will wins Dustin’s xmen comic in a bet- and Dustin later asks the gang “Do you think Eleven was born with powers like the xmen?” While in the last ep of s1 (when Will returns) Dustin says to him “she’s like a wizard.” COUGH ‘Will the wise’ , Will’s alter-ego who happens to be wizard.

Will  also has always been associated with bears (along with 3 other animal symbols that El also has).  We see a zoom in shot of Will’s bear drawing right before the demorgorgan takes him from the upside down version of castle byers in s1. Bears symbolically represent  “wisdom” like ‘Will the wise’ and were associated with the demorgorgan/upside down in s1 and 2 as well . Max and Nancy both compared demorrgorgans to bears- and Nancy and Jonathan used a bear-trap to capture the demorgorgan in s1. So when El tries to grab Will’s teddy bear (it was shown to be his in s1) with her powers. And Mike says “they’ll come back”. They might actually come back, because Will and EL’s relationship improves. Mike even tried to give El a golden bear as a gift (so maybe that signifies the giving back of her powers in s4 or 5 ?)

Will  before the series began experienced ‘dissociative amnesia’ but is now remembering the abuse (and since he’s psychic) his memories are manifesting into  monsters - he has little to no control over.

“Many survivors of incest are able to “forget” about the abuse until sometime later …when memories are triggered by certain events or when the body and mind are no longer able to conceal the memories.”

“Children are more likely to ‘dissociate’ so people who have experienced childhood sexual abuse frequently experience this. Dissociation is defined as ‘an experience where you feel disconnected in some way from the world around you or from yourself.’ During the traumatic incident the person might enter an altered sense of reality, detached from them selves and time.”

”Victims of incest learn early in their lives to detach themselves from their experiences. Some do this by pretending that the abuse is a dream.” 

Bob talks about a clown that would “come to him every night” in his dreams.  And that he ‘couldn’t get him out of his head.’ His story being a clue to the audience that the supernatural manifestations are coming from Will’s mind. While, in s1 Joyce talks about Will having nightmares and even asks him if he’s still afraid of clowns.

Even before Bob tells him the story about the clown, we see the the appearance of a clown (and not the other dressed up bullies) is what triggers Will to have a ptsd-flashback.

“clients who have experienced incest often report that their external world, including people, shapes, sizes, colors and intensities of these perceptions, can change quickly and dramatically at times. Some real or perceived threat triggers these distorted perceptions of self and outer reality.”

“Reports such as this one are not uncommon for survivors of incest and often are exacerbated as these individuals work through the process of remembering and integrating trauma experiences into a coherent life narrative.”

“There may be a “confusion about the reality of events” and the “meanings of available mental contents.”

So the reason he refers to them as “now-memories” is because they are things he’s already experienced (as memories) but he’s only now remembering them- because of his “dissociative-amnesia’ . His triggers being doors (fear when his father would get home) and bath tubs ( which are a common place for abuse to occur).

There are 4 hallmarks of a potential dissociative disorder

“An individual struggling with dissociation or a dissociative disorder may only experience one of the following or may experience multiple. Each individual’s experience with dissociation can be varied. Symptoms can last just a matter of moments or return at times over the years.”

1)“Dissociative Amnesia-The forgetting of a major event, such as a childhood trauma or forgetting (traumatic) things happening in real-time.”

2)“Identity confusion and alteration -When an individual forgets who they are or takes on a new personality unlike themselves.”

(x)

3)“Derealization-Feeling like the world is not real or is foggy.”

(x)

4) “Depersonalization-The sense of not being in control of, or not being connected to, one’s body.”

*Not to mention he has almost all the symptoms/warning signs of a csa victim. You can read in more detail here

The Mindflayer represents Lonnie Byers (psych/narrative analysis) 

Will created the Mindflayer analysis (where I mentioned Will taking her powers).

Lonnie represents the mindflayer (video)

Will was born with powers (evidence compilation video)

* And just all my other St theory/character metas if you are interested  / or missed them XD