#Bernie Rosenthal

[antrunner]

i was told to post this

[nitpickrider]

I can't tell who's trying to seduce whom here. Both of these fits are going in for the kill. Captain America 427

[thebestcomicking]

[evilhorse]

Oh, I’ll admit that Springsteen’s done some great stuff

(Captain America #248)

[sebeth]

The Captain's Loves

[nerds-yearbook]

Bernadette "Bernie" Rosenthal made her first appearance in Captain America 247#, cover date July, 1980. She was created by Roger Stern and John Byrne. ("By the Dawn's Early Light", Captain America 247#, Marvel Comic Event)

[gay-jewish-bucky]

"Bucky Barnes is an Original American Hero... and if anything, HE's the victim here..." -Bernadette Rosenthal

THE TRIAL OF CAPTAIN AMERICA #2 (Captain America Issue #612)

[crash476]

Conspiracies and the Problem of Peggy Carter

I bounced really hard off the Captain Carter version of Peggy Carter. For me, it felt like the triumph of her style over any quality she had as a character. I’ve spoken about this before, but I think giving Peggy dementia robbed her of her voice, unable to speak to her past, and thus providing a blank canvas for the writer and audience to use with as they will.

My biggest critique of Peggy’s fans have been this sense that they love her aesthetic and the platitudes over the substance of the character. She became 2010s girlboss. The Agent Carter series did provide the potential to further explore her as a character. It could give her a past pre-dating Steve, show the history of SHIELD, show her as a leader, and delve into the moral complexities of the MCU intelligence side. But that never happened. The show was canceled after two seasons and all we had left was a very marketable aesthetic.

We have some vague notions of what she did during her time as director of SHIELD, but nothing substantial. Then Endgame happened, Chris Evans left for other projects, and the Russos, Markus and McFeely seemed to have scrambled for a way to write out Steve. Steve’s exit seemed like an afterthought at best. As a consequence, whatever lore Peggy had in the main MCU timeline got completely thrown out. This is because Steve Rogers is a heroic paragon and his designated love interest must be above reproach. She is little more than a sexy lamp and when Captain Carter got attention in the What If... series, well she’s even more marketable now! 

The thing that gets me about Peggy’s haters is the level of reaching done to justify their dislike. I’ll get to some of my critiques on how Disney/Marvel Studios handle the espionage side of the MCU (not well). But stay with me here. I need to do some comic book history. 

The MCU Peggy Carter is an amalgamation of a number of love interests Steve’s had over his publication run. Earth-616 Peggy is a retcon love interest. She was introduced in 1966 after Steve’s book was essentially rebooted. Captain America was popular during WWII, but the initial post-war years weren’t kind to superhero comics. Atlas Comics (who later rebranded as Marvel Comics in 1961) tried to rebrand Steve from a Nazi puncher to a Commie smasher that went over like a lead balloon. His book was canceled in 1954 and Stan Lee and Jack Kirby revived Steve in 1964. They came up with the “on ice” backstory we saw in the TFA. The 50s Cap was explained as having been a succession of other characters acting as Steve, such as Jeffrey Mace (Patriot), William Naslund (Spirit of ‘76), and most infamously by William Burnside. 

Anyway, during the 50s, Bucky got shot and was replaced by Steve’s then girlfriend, Betsy Ross (then known as Betty and later goes by the code names Agent 13 and Golden Girl). She is THE original love interest and first appeared in Captain America Comics #1, published in December 1940, created by Joe Simon and Jack Kirby. She basically did everything in the 40s comics that Peggy in the 60s (and the MCU by extension) was said to have done. The reason you’ve never heard of her is because of Betty Ross Banner - The Hulk’s main love interest. 40s Betsy got retconned into a relationship with Jeffrey Mace (one of the guys who was a retconned 50s Cap) and now lives in a retirement home.

Sharon and Peggy Carter get introduced in 1966. Sharon’s got a complicated story that we don’t have time to unpack so I’ll just say, Sharon is messy and that’s good. I think it’s good that she’s the Power Broker. Steve later dated glass-blower turned lawyer Bernie Rosenthal, who was introduced in 1980. He’s had an on/off relationship with former villainess Rachel Leighton, aka Diamondback (who was introduced in 1985). And there were romances with fellow super heroines like The Black Widow, Wasp, Rogue, and The Scarlet Witch.

Now we move onto the conspiracy theory Peggy Carter haters adore: Cynthia Glass. 

Cynthia “Cindy” Glass was created in 1991 by Fabian Nicieza and Kevin Maguir for The Adventures of Captain America #1 - #4. She had four total appearances before she was killed. There was apparently a guid book for the MCU where she was mentioned as an inspiration for MCU Peggy, but I’d like to see those receipts before I make a call on the veracity of the claim. But I can see why the Peggy haters claim her as the true inspiration of MCU Peggy. Cynthia kind of looks like Hayley Atwell (if you squint) and is revealed to be a Nazi double agent who gets shot. 

Look, if you don’t like a character (and maybe their actor, too), it’s fine. Just don’t fuck with them and move on, don’t make up shit about a character being a secret Nazi when there’s no actual proof. And don’t say that Cynthia Glass was Cap’s first love when she was a clear retcon that completely contradicts previously established canon regarding Betsy Ross and Peggy Carter. Especially when anyone can look up the publication history. At most MCU Peggy kind of looks like Cynthia and met Steve just before he got the serum. The decision to keep Atwell’s brown hair could easily have come down to “she looks better as a brunette.” Film production decisions are often not that deep. 

Peggy Carter was probably the most convenient love interest to adapt for TFA. She doesn’t have Betsy’s name problem. Sharon needs to be established as being Peggy’s niece to explain why they look so similar. You need to justify a face-turn for Rachel. And the only people who know about Cynthia Glass are those who read the original limited run she was in during the early 90s as it looks like it wasn’t collected into a trade paperback until 2018. Again, film production devisions are not often not that deep.

So now we get to my critiques of how Disney/Marvel Studios have handled Peggy and just the spy genre in general. Spy fiction can vary wildly in terms of tone and just how heroic the protagonist is, but generally the genre leans towards a cynical world view. This is fueled by the author’s own politics, and by their own experiences if they worked in intelligence themselves (ie: John le Carré and Graham Greene). The genre also borrows heavily from hardboiled detectives (think the works of Raymond Chandler) and film noir. In any case, the protagonist is, at best, an anti-hero and sometimes a terrible one. The nature of intelligence work requires moral compromises, both in and out of fiction. If you actually look into how that world operates, it’s honestly more like organized crime backed by a nation’s treasury and given the fig leaf of respectability because you’re “fighting for a cause.” 

This runs headlong into the MCU retcons when it comes to Peggy. By making SHIELD older than originally implied and putting Peggy in charge during the early days, she now has a fuck ton of skeletons in her closet. The problem is that Disney will never produce anything that is critical of the US government or could be as cynical as the spy genre demands. Yes, there was Agents of SHIELD, but that show (and I say this with love) has more in common with NCIS than The Sandbaggers or Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy. Disney is too scared of biting the hand that feeds. They’re scared of getting cut off from Pentagon money. This is Disney’s lone fear, and it shows how toothless The Falcon and the Winter Soldier was. They just come up to the edge of valid critic, actually showing how the empire works.

Bringing this back to the problem Peggy, because the Russos, Markus and McFeely needed her to be morally pure so she could be Steve’s perfect love interest. She can’t have a past, red on her ledger, or anything that puts her into a compromised position. It’s probably why Steve goes back to 1949 and gets with Peggy before SHIELD really starts. That way, Peggy hasn’t done anything wrong. The audience is asked to forget about Zola and the HYDRA infiltration (though it’s never explained what she knew when). The Bucky situation is a bit different, and the Cynthia Glass conspiracy requires you to forget that in universe the Winter Soldier is treated as an urban legend within the intelligence community. Natasha brings up in TWS that no one can agree if he’s real. Given the few crumbs we have on Peggy’s tenure as director of SHIELD, the most I’m willing to say is that she might have know that the Winter Soldier was real. But with hindsight, I think the HYDRA infiltration was pulled off badly. 

Like if I had my way, the Peggy Steve meets after he’s unfrozen would be played by an older actress like Judi Dench, Maggie Smith, or the late Diana Rigg. That way she can speak for herself in the present. If I had my way, Agent Carter would have lasted longer and Peggy would have become something along the lines of DC’s Amanda Waller mixed with Dench’s M with a dash of George Smiley’s moral grounding. We could get a more accurate understanding of Peggy and SHIELD and even if you still don’t like her, she’s still a character with actual depth. And maybe Captain Carter would just be a fun “what if...” and not a free mulligan. 

Cause it really feels like Disney wants to wipe the slate clean and rewrite Peggy as a morally uncomplicated heroine who can be Steve’s un-problematic girlfriend.

[watch-joey-collect]

[vertigoartgore]

Captain America by Mike Zeck (the Cap artist from 1981 to 1983). What he remembered about it on his website :

WORLD’S FAMOUS COMIC BOOKS ARTISTS, Limited Edition Portfolio, 1983. Mike Zeck : "I think this was the first of the portfolio publications from Déesse ? Sixteen plates by sixteen different artists in this portfolio. I was invented to participate along with Kirby, Bolland, Kaluta, Chaykin, Chaland, and other artists from the US and Europe. My contribution was a Captain America illustration, since I was penciling the title at the time."

[nitpickrider]

These two are either going to scissor or kill each other, there is no inbetween. Captain America 426

[agentxthirteen]

Sharon-A-Day, Day 506 (5/21/23)

Captain America V9 7. On sale 1/30/19. "Captain of Nothing: Part 1"

Writer: Ta-Nehisi Coates

Artist: Adam Kubert

Letterer: Joe Caramagna

Colorist: Frank Martin, Jr.

Editor: Tom Brevoort

Sharon and Steve meet with Bernie Rosenthal, Steve's lawyer.

[evilhorse]

I’m a glassblower!

(Captain America #251)

[gwynpool]

hot take(?) I think the Cap franchise missed heavy by not making Bernie Rosenthal a more prominent character (and also) kept as Steve's love interest.

All the secret spy love interest stuff has potential on paper, but tbh idt it has panned out to general audiences and mostly resulted in blondearyan LI competitions for uber niche fans. A lawyer already involved in defending Bucky from the state was a good ramp up to make Rosenthal a regular. Bernie coulda been Marvel's Jewish Lois Lane tbh if they kept her around

tbh i don’t know enough about bernie to warrant an opinion about her but i would choose her over the current brunette woman they keep parading in the mcu as a ‘feminist icon’ and bernie seems interesting as an individual

that being said, if being a more prominent character means replacing sharon carter, steve rogers’ forever soulmate, and serving as “jewish lois lane” well, i would have to say no. sorry.

[nerds-yearbook]

Madcap was introduced in Captain America 307, cover date july, 1985. He was created by Mark Gruenwald and Paul Neary. ("Stop Making Sense", Captain America 307#, Marvel Comic Event)

[ravenirene]

one of the current writers for captain America, Jackson Lanzing, has said his favorites are 1. Sharon 2. Bernie 3. Peggy