#BIOWARE WHY ARE YOU LIKE THIS

[thewardenisonthecase]

the whole 'who should be first talon' thing is actually going to give me a headache the more i think about it

[togepies]

was about to play andromeda but then I remembered that I finished kadara stuff and won’t have any more stella x reyes content and WHAT is the point of playing if not to see those two being in love

[baejax-the-great]

Playing Veilguard like:

[rawliverandcigarettes]

Thinking about Mass Effect, as you do, and how I'm kind of sad that the way it's been engraved in pop culture has more to do with the way internet reacted to it at the time than what the actual game is about. Yes sure, it's about romance (and not that much all things considered) and it's pulpy (but not solely because of hot lady aliens), but it's also intricate worldbuilding that touches on a lot of sharp ideas, and a complicated tug-of-war between a genuine and vulnerable belief in reconciliation and community VS post 9-11 US military propaganda and steadfast belief in heroic exceptionalism, and the melancholic yet energizing mood, and the daring narrative systems, and so so much more than the 'We'll Bang OKs" and the "There's No Shepard Without Vakarian" and the whole ME3 ending situation

It's all there, but I'm sad the impact of the series is often reduced to (what I think is) the least interesting parts of its sum

[wetsocksinbed]

Shepard: I died saving my crew. Then someone I considered one of my closest friends gave my corpse to a terrorist organisation, who brought me back to life against my will, and have been manipulating me for months. I am isolated from almost everyone I knew and I am trying to save everyone yet again while also making sure I am not losing my morality.

Kaidan/Ashley: you left me >:(

[apostaterevolutionary]

I am so sorry, apparently it’s 2024 and I’m arguing about dragon age again lmao. How did I get here! Why is this happening!! Time is a flat circle!!!

Anyway. People can feel how they want about the past games not mattering in this game. If you’re cool with it, I’m happy for you. But there’s one particular argument in defence of this choice that is really, really bothering me and I have to rant

The thing I keep seeing is “well all this other stuff has nothing to do with the main plot or Rook, so it should be cut” and that’s. Not a good way to tell stories in my opinion. Because here’s the thing: it’s not about the Big Overall Plot. It’s about the characters that live in this world, big and small

I’m going to use the example of Varric and Hawke cause I think it’s the easiest to explain quickly. Varric is a storyteller. That’s the defining trait of his character. He tells stories, and sometimes they’re true and sometimes they’re not and sometimes it’s something in between. In DA2 he tells you about his brother. In inquisition, he talks about hawke and there’s banter about several of the companions. Most of these are just little one liners that don’t “serve the overall plot” but they serve Varric’s character

And that matters

So if we take this character known for telling stories about people that have been in his life, well, he largely can’t do that now. How can he talk about Hawke, someone who can be a very close friend of his, without even their gender being a choice you can select? Or whether Varric should be saying ‘is’ or ‘was’ about them? How can he talk about the companions in DA2 or inquisition when a lot of them don’t have to be recruited or can die? Will he limit himself to only characters that are guaranteed to be a part of it and alive? Or is it that he and Rook will have such a shallow relationship that Varric, of all characters, never talks about his life and past exploits?

Or has Varric as a character changed so much that he doesn’t even want to tell stories anymore? That Hawke living or dying means nothing to him? That the friendships he built with people in 2 games mean nothing to him? That he’s become literally unrecognizable?

This is where the problem is. Sure, Rook maybe doesn’t care about these people they’ve never met. But do they care about Varric? What about if a companion mentions an old friend of theirs, talks about an experience they had that made them who they are - is that only okay if that experience isn’t from a previous game? Or are all the characters so flat that we never learn anything about their connections to others outside of Rook? Is this story SO focused on this player character and this plot that NOTHING else matters, even within the world, and there’s no depth to be found in any of the characters that feature in it?

Writing characters so that they only ever talk about things that “directly serve the plot” is how you get flat, unremarkable, boring, forgettable characters. And that’s not something I would have accused bioware of doing even if some instalments are stronger in this area than others. But it sounds like that’s what they’re doing here, at least with the past characters. Cause sure, maybe Morrigan is so closed off she’ll never mention her son and partner. That’s believable, even if iffy given that they’ve said she’s going to be more involved than we think. But Varric? VARRIC??? Never mentioning ANY of the people he used to spend time with and care about except Solas and maybe some of the inquisition characters that can’t die or not be recruited but also carefully skirting around what happened to them in the game? That’s literally not the same character

And I would expand this to like. A letter mentioning this or a codex mentioning that, or ambient dialogue about so and so - that makes the world feel deep and those random, unimportant NPCs feel richer by connecting them to the larger world. It’s not about “serving the plot”, it’s about making your world and characters deep enough that they feel real, lived in, and like something we can actually care about

[lasombr4]

One thing that immediately struck me about Veilguard is that you can't talk to NPCs. It's so jarring.

I just started replaying Origins and wow does it look ass, but when you leave your house in the alienage there are just some drunk guys you can have a conversation with. The shopkeeper shoos you out, but not before you have an opportunity to express the Warden's feelings on their marriage. Some woman is mad about your hot fiancé. Her son parrots his father's beliefs about lazy humans. A beggar bemoans being dependent on the handouts of people who themselves have nothing.

In Minrathous there is a single Shadow Dragon who introduces himself to you (you can't reply) and I'm going to be honest, it was comical to me how the game then had Rook act upset over his death.

If you want to get me emotionally invested, you'll need to give me more than "Hi, I'm Hector". I don't think that's a controversial opinion.

[foxx-queen]

thinking about that one slide from the credits of datv that's a shot of morrigan, with the voice over saying something like 'we will always be thankful to the stories that came before us' and how much of a blatant lie that is given how much the writers did not care about the previous games

[v-arbellanaris]

sorry i WILL shut up about this (and start posting abt my new hawkes) but seeing "can you guys take a breath" and "decisions from 10+ years ago in southern thedas will not affect the current timeline set in north thedas" from specific blogs is genuinely wild. as if we don't literally live in a world where we are STILL just starting to face consequences to actions taken 10+ years ago, and as if US politics 10+ years ago did not have anyyyyy global ramifications for anyone outside of the US even 10+ years later. like. rivain, antiva, nevarra are all IN southern thedas wdym??? im half tempted to start actually listing out all of the things our decisions could have feasibly impacted 10 years later but seeing this take from blogs that genuinely still discuss the impact of the exalted marches on thedas hundreds of years later is WILDDDDDD

[pinkfey]

remember how in dao there were always like multiple flirty options u could just spring on ur love interest and it wasn't something that was brushed past it would stop a conversation dead in its tracks to have a cute secondary flirty offshoot with small variations dependent on the flirty option u initially chose with a unique course correction to get back on topic after...... yeah.

[merciawintersageposting]

please just let me play dressup with my blorbos

[alongtidesoflight]

so here's my honest thoughts on dragon age: the veilguard, after ~40 hours of playing. i finished the main quest after having finished all companion quests and major faction quests. just to clear up what content i saw, i played as an elven transmasc rook who is a member of the lords of fortune. he romanced lucanis (although after finishing the game i'm now leaning towards taash). i don't know what's happening in playthroughs that have a different race, gender identity, romance or faction going on.

full spoilers ahead, i mean it. don't read further if you want to avoid them. i don't want complaining about it in my asks.

oh and also, if you're worried because of a few negative reviews online i can comfort you by saying don't give a fuck about a certain big name youtuber who is very much tied to bethesda franchises giving this a negative review. i'll explain why.

i'm starting off with the things i liked

the game looks really pretty. i was worried it wouldn't feel like thedas anymore (with them trying to "focus on northern thedas only" i thought they'd make a clear cut in environmental design. they do and they don't. it's complicated. i'll elaborate on it when talking about the negative stuff). anyway it does. minrathous feels like kirkwall. treviso enchanted me like the winter palace did. the hossberg wetlands reminded me of the hinterlands and a couple other inquisition maps. arlathan looked like... arlathan. the crossroads were different, but familiar. overall i like the way it looks and feels. it's thedas, with a twist. it's a good one, and gives everything a solid but unique feel.

combat is top tier. if you're a hardcore dragon age player you WILL miss the tactical aspect of it for a bit, but i promise you, once you're used to the way the combat works, you will be lapping that shit up. and once you get to ability combos you'll mourn the control you used to have over your companions in battle a bit less

the MAIN quest and its story. i expected worse, way worse. and for a while the game even had me tricked (harr harr you'll get it in a second) it is Really That Much Worse. but holy shit was it good. i walked away satisfied ngl.

your choices have SOLID weight. there's consequences, good AND bad. i got minrathous blighted, ruled over by venatori, and the leader of the shadow dragons ultimately died because of my decisions. i made those at the beginning and throughout the game. he died at the end. DAVRIN died because i didn't expect what i was saying to have that much weight. i thought i was in the clear. he had hero status. well turns out, your choices can still get your companions killed even if you do everything right. i fucking love him. he shouldn't have made that sacrifice just because i told him to do everything it takes once.

the inquisitor, morrigan and dorian being there, surprisingly. there's also negatives to this though, see below.

speaking of companions dying and the inquisitor playing a bigger role: the final quest feels like me2's suicide mission. i was blown away by it and the fact that i got to see the results of all my efforts playing out in front of me.

bioware are NOT trying to redeem solas. they love him as a character yes, but i wasn't forced to see any good in him. he betrays you. he fucked my rook over twice. he fucked him over right back, for good this time (the veil wasn't torn down, i anchored it by binding him to it, he's doomed to uphold it). but solas really lives up to his name as the trickster elven god. rip to all the people who grew really attached to him over the years.

varric died. if you like him that's probably as hard reading it as it was watching it. varric died and the game lies about it until the very end. when the realisation hits, it hurts. but in the very best way.

the amount of care they put into gender expression and trans identities this time around. (i'll add onto this with negative points as well too).

rook feels very much ingrained in the world of thedas. he doesn't ask questions that expose the player to lore through dialogue as if he's stepped foot into thedas for the first time. those conversations feel very solid and good. i hope other faction players got as much joy out of this as i did.

and the things i didn't like and boy there's a lot unfortunately

the music. let's just get that out of the way holy shit. it doesn't feel like it belongs in this universe. it gets so incredibly sci-fi-y at times you'd think it's taken straight from mass effect andromeda. there's not a single song unique to veilguard that i really enjoyed. it broke my immersion, real bad. hearing a busker play the tavern songs from inquisition on a lute right after i killed some venatori with wobbly bass songs playing in the background is just odd. weird tonal shift. don't like it. it's made for people who like flashy light-weight cinema.

tevinter nights is required reading. the podcasts are required listening exercises. the game is so fast paced, especially at the start, that there's no time to introduce you to characters and how much weight their names carry in-game. i would not have known who half these people are if i hadn't skimmed over tevinter nights. i'd care even less about them than i already did. there is no time to get properly attached to them. people will act as if you're talking to a legend personified and you'll be thinking man goddamn which chapter of tevinter night were they in again and what did they do???

there's a weird mismatch with the animations. you'll have beautifully fluid ones, like emmrich casting spells. and then you'll have rook's face animating in the most unnatural manner that's sorta reminiscent of mass effect andromeda's "my face is tired" addison, when their emotions SHOULD be landing with the player rn instead.

i'm not vibing with the art style. sometimes it works. most of the time it doesn't. at points i felt like i was watching tangled.

that also brings me to some of the dialogue. same issue. i am watching frozen. i am watching tangled. someone on the writer's team really likes the adorkable trope. bellara is its victim.

for all the talk about identity, bioware sure doesn't like theirs. the grey warden armor got a redesign again and it just makes them look like a generic army. i hate it lol

in general, i don't like the armor design. the wardrobe/appearances system is fine, but it's just not helping if all the armors are just... kinda bland or downight bad looking? and don't get me started on the lords of fortune armor. that is orientalism personified.

the world states should have been carried over, full stop. i know they said they didn't because they want to separate what happens in the north from what happens in the south, which... i could have lived with that. but the inquisitor sends you letters that keep you up to date on... the south of thedas. you learn that there's a blight again, that people are standing strong but it's difficult, denerim's fallen, the rulers are taking care of it, orlais is fighting and they're successful for a while, etc etc. what's good bioware. i thought we don't care about the south this time around. why are you feeding me so much boring generic information. if you're not gonna show any of it and just write letters, then carrying the world state over should not have been an issue. i have a game dev background. those few lines of code would not have broken your budget or pushed your engine's limits. fuck right off.

this gripe of mine carries over to all the cameos. as a lord of fortune you have to deal with isabela a lot. it's fun. i missed her. you get to go drinking with her and taash and bellara! also my hawke romanced her. she's not mentioned once. they had the opportunity to put a sentence or two about her in there with not a lot of effort, trust me.

when varric dies, all she has is a single line about it. for gold, for fortune, for varric. she only says it if you interact with her on your way to the final push. that's not mandatory.

morrigan is there. kieran isn't. the old god soul that mythal and then solas absorbed? who cares at this point, the gods are dead now and solas is locked away for eternity. i suppose? why is morrigan there. she feels unneeded. i wish they'd just left her down south, at least that way i wouldn't have had to witness her god awful redesign.

dorian at least feels as if he belongs in this story. the shadow dragons are a crucial part to protecting minrathous. he's also weirdly underutilised. isabela and morrigan had more lines than him in my playthrough.

on the topic of romance: bro that was underwhelming. no, genuinely. you know when romance picked up a bit? after the point of no return. i heard maybe two lines of companion banter about it before that. maybe i missed something which i honestly doubt, but romance did not play much of a role in lucanis's storyline. i saved his grandmother as he wished me to (and if you read tevinter nights you know she was rather abusive and their relationship not the healthiest) and told him to focus on his family. a reunified family my rook wasn't even introduced to as a partner at the end of all that.

really, do not buy this game if you're only in it for the romances. others might be better, lucanis's basically gave me nothing. except for an outing (the second coffee date i had with him, it was getting repetitive) all of it played out once i committed to the final quest. the sex scene was a fade to black. annoyingly right after davrin died. if you're looking for well paced and good spice, pick up something else. the sweet talk and the final goodbye were nice though.

for all the good the ever-presence of gender identity does, it is brought up in such a disruptive manner too. it doesn't even play out naturally if you CHOOSE the lines that are meant to be said. hearing the words trans and non-binary in this setting doesn't feel right, and i'm saying this as a trans guy. i think it could have been handled more gracefully. the amount of times my rook went "i'm a MAN" as if he's about to start drumming on his chest and roaring any second now got super nerve-grating. "i'm so glad you're into me... the me who is trans. remember?" just. tell me one trans person who'd talk like that to a person they've grown close with and are trying to romance. this game doesn't handle sexuality well, so all this hey my body might not look like the way you're expecting it to look talk amounts to nothing anyway. i feel about this the way i feel about krem: this is partial exposition to trans experiences... packaged up for cis consumption. the ONLY exception to that is interacting with taash. holy shit was all of that heartwarming and bro did it feel good and natural to talk to them about theirs and rook's gender.

rivain and nevarra are new locations added by veilguard. they're also incredibly underwhelming, small and constricted maps. rivain is a coastline with a few ruins. the hall of valor is a partial ruin nestled into a cave on a beach, with a fighting pit. isabela is there in her skimpy outfit commentating your pit fights. that's it. i'm sorry if you were looking for a bustling pirate cove or whatever. you're not gonna get it. the nevarran crypts btw are a long ass dungeon crawl. that's it.

speaking of maps. i thought people were being dramatic when they said you're gonna be fighting the same enemies on them again and again. i thought they were figure of speeching it. they're not. you WILL fight the same amount of enemies. in the same spot. every time you reload the map. best to stay on a map and clear out the enemies and do as much questing on that map as you can before leaving, because you WILL have to do it all over again once you return.

the three choices i made for my inquisitor didn't matter lol she didn't have to face solas and therefore couldn't stop him at any cost as she had sworn (maybe because my rook tricked solas into binding himself to the veil, there was also an option to fight him. would she have stepped in? who knows). blackwall wasn't mentioned. and either her using a small amount of her forces in the final fight was the reason the civilians of minrathous fared so well..... or it just didn't matter. ultimately i think she had very little impact on anything

[shoutydwarf]

if you are an elf stan go play a fucking dwarf in datv right now and please shut up about them until you finish the game

you can have your super special elf dialogue about the titans and the collective grief of the dwarves when DWARF ROOKS get super special DWARF DIALOGUE about the titans and collective grief of the DWARVES

[himbohimhoe]

Holding out hope that the writing in veilguard will get more bearable but rook saying to lucanis that it's "not nice that Spite hurt him" and he "shouldn't accept that it’s fine bc it wouldn't be ok if a person did that" like. That is a demon. Built off a single emotion called SPITE. Rook I am finding it really hard to believe that u have lived in thedas for more than 30 seconds.

[zazikels]

the fact is, if varric lives (and that's an if bc maybe solas does kill him lmao idk how much to trust that minimap reveal) it IS weird that you can't customise a hawke or account for the decision because it would be a little weird if a man who has lived through a wannabe god + blight dragon attacking warden fortress has nothing to say about ghilan'nain and her blight dragon attacking a warden fortress, especially if he potentially lost his best friend (Hawke). It's not outlandish for people to be a little disappointed to not get some customisation there because the choices are not equal to varric. the loss of hawke is obviously a bigger impact on him than whichever warden is there. given varric's personality, it's not outlandish to expect him to talk about it with Rook either especially considering weisshaupt is a thing that happens in the game. if he dies beforehand it doesn't matter, but if he's going to be around? yeah you'd think he'd be talking about it here.

speaking of weisshaupt, A PLACE YOU GET TO GO, a hero of ferelden who made the ultimate sacrifice IS FUCKING INTERRED THERE. But it's just "whining" to expect a nod (esp one that you can customise so it's your hero of ferelden) i guess.

regardless of whether morrigan has mythal or not, who she is as a person does change based on whether she was romanced and whether she had a child. it is natural that this matters and people aren't stupid to be tentatively concerned that nothing of her history is "required" but she's apparently this important vip character who will have more involvement in the game than you expect. like you are allowed to ask: okay what does this mean, what will she be like, will she be the same character i've loved across multiple games?

people are allowed to be upset or concerned that a game series that historically took your choices and your decisions into account has watered that down to 3 choices when certain choices that WOULD impact characters that appear in THIS game aren't. (and to be clear being upset does not mean harassing the devs, don't do that).

[carabas]

Hey. Why does Lucanis's storyline end like that. Why would you start a storyline with a conversation like this:

Lucanis: I've always thought that to live truly is to live fully. But even before I was captured, my life was not really my own. So much had been determined for me. Rook: Being grandson to the First Talon must come with a lot of baggage. Lucanis: And when I proved I could carry it, the expectations only grew.

And after he has repeatedly stated in Tevinter Nights that, though he certainly doesn't want to quit the Crows, he does not want to be First Talon and would not be suited to it:

"All that effort training and grooming us, and the old woman still won't step aside." Beneath the bitterness in Illario's tone was something rotten. "Your time will come," Lucanis assured him. "Will it?" Illario's piercing gaze met Lucanis's in the mirror. "People talk. You've always been her favorite." He'd heard the rumors. For all their secrets and intrigue, the Antivan Crows were a chatty bunch. "My talents lie elsewhere," Lucanis said, gesturing toward the arsenal around him. "You're the one with the silver tongue."

Tevinter Nights again:

Illario's gaze grew hard. "How long are you going to keep doing this?" "Doing what?" "Caterina's bidding." The wine turned in Lucanis's mouth. "Illario. Stop." "If I was in charge, you wouldn't have to do this anymore," he cajoled. "You could quit." Lucanis stared at his cousin. "I don't want to quit." Illario sat back. The distance between them suddenly felt much wider than a table. "Even if it kills you," Illario whispered. "Death is my calling," Lucanis stated, matter-of-fact. "Just as yours is to become First Talon." He smiled, hoping to ease the tension, but Illario's posture remained taut. "And if Caterina disagrees? If she thinks you're the better man for the job--" "I don't want it, Illario," Lucanis insisted. "But you wouldn't refuse." "It's impossible to refuse Caterina," Lucanis admitted reluctantly. "Only prolong her, until she sees reason." He knew it wasn't the answer Illario wanted, but it was the truth. And in their line of work, honesty was hard to come by.

...and then Caterina declares Lucanis First Talon and, that's, we're leaving it like that. That's where we're leaving it? We started this story with a statement that his life had never been his own and had been determined by Caterina, and we are ending the story with his life being determined by Caterina, that is what we are doing?

The final pivotal scene of this game is about a spirit being released from an unwanted role he had been twisted into! Solas was Wisdom before Mythal turned him into her weapon as the Dread Wolf, a role he had remained trapped in long after the person who imposed that duty upon him had died! Letting Solas persist in his perceived duty twists him into a monster who starts talking like Elgar'nan, the very thing he'd said he feared becoming! Finally releasing Solas from Mythal's service is the super happy best ending of this game! The obvious parallels are paralleling!

And yet this story ends with Lucanis in the role Caterina put on him as First Talon??

Bioware why would you write it like that, I just want to talk