#Athrabeth

[verecunda]

Been meaning to share this for ages - an absolutely beautiful commission of Andreth and Aegnor done for me by the lovely @neldeathstar. Thank you so very much again! 🥰🥰🥰

[southfarthing]

it's so important to me that aegnor is the most beautiful ethereal elf you've ever seen and andreth is like. ok. no facial features that really grab anyone's attention

what draws aegnor to her is all the things about her that seem to contradict each other. the way she looks so at home in middle earth, so at one with the heather as her bed and the stars as jewels in her hair, when aegnor knows her fëa is not of middle earth. the way she is so young compared to him, yet the way she talks with such knowledge and heaviness, and the way her eyes hint at memory long before her years, but memory that weighs on her and lends wisdom and passion to her words all the same.

he cannot help but be bewitched by her, to try to make sense of her, while knowing every glance he steals of her in the still water of the lake brings him closer to his doom. he looks anyway

[edennill]

And those among us who have known the Eldar, and maybe have loved them, say on our side: “There is no weariness in the eyes of the Elves.” And we find that they do not understand the saying that goes among Men: too often seen is seen no longer. And they wonder much that in the tongues of Men the same word may mean both “long-known” and “stale”. We have thought that this was so only because the Elves have lasting life and undiminished vigor. “Grown-up children” we, the guests, sometimes call you, my lord.

One has to admire the fact that Andreth is willing to tell her actual liege-lord that her people have a habit of calling his "grown-up children" though.

[emyn-arnens]

I’ve rounded up some of my favorite Aegnor/Andreth fics and put them into a rec list. Some are sweet, some are heartbreaking, some are a little of both, and all are beautifully written. Please leave a kudos and comment if you enjoy!

Note: Works marked with “character death” either begin with one or both of them dead, or one or both of them die during the course of the story. Links lead to AO3 or the SWG.

Across the Gulf by Antiheld (T, 3.1k):

A brief moment of rebelling against fates. Andreth/Aegnor Oneshot, AU(ish)

A Few Good Years to Spend by Verecunda (G, 4.7k):

“Tell him not to be reckless. Not to seek danger beyond need!” Once, Aegnor turned away from the desires of his heart. But when Finrod gives him a message from Andreth, the love he gave up so long ago will no longer be denied.

All in Patience, All in Haste by EilinelsGhost (G, ~700 words):

A month or two after the Athrabeth, Andreth receives another Arafinwëan visitor.

A Moth in Amber by Mithen (G, 1k, character death):

Andreth and Aegnor had one spring together, and each of them carried it in their hearts the rest of their lives.

Burnt Sugar by @sallysavestheday (G, ~200 words):

Aegnor and Andreth and fires in the dark.

Candlelight On Tapestry by amyfortuna (G, 1.1k, character death):

In the Halls of Mandos, Aegnor spends his time staring into memories and dreams, until he's shaken out of them by an unexpected meeting.

Clear Visions by @hhimring (T, 1.2k):

Aegnor sings to Andreth of Valinor.

For One Year, One Day, of the Flame by @cuarthol (T, 1.7k):

Andreth prepares for the approach of midwinter, while Aegnor seeks to right a choice from long ago, before it is too late.

Sharing by Ruiniel (T, 1.4k):

The concept of ‘mind-pictures’ in The Nature of Middle-earth is interesting to explore, applied an interpretation of it to this short scene featuring Aegnor and Andreth (trying to get back into writing for Tolkien). "In any case indemmar were by Men mostly received in sleep (dream). If received when bodily awake they were usually vague and phantom-like (and often caused fear) [...]" Slightly AU take on this one.

Though We Shall Not Leave by LadyBrooke (T, 5k, character death):

Aegnor died, but that does not mean he left Andreth's side for long.

Whither you go by Ruiniel (T, 1.3k, character death):

'Whither you go may you find light. Await us there, my brother - and me.' - from Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth, J.R.R. Tolkien Months ago, tried a short ghost story about souls meeting again in a time out of time. Featuring the saddest OTP. The AU is on me (apologies).

Who will pity the candle and the moth? by @hhimring (T, ~200 words, character death):

A very brief encounter between Andreth and Aegnor after death. Maybe Nienna had her hand in it, allowing Andreth to linger for a short while among dead Elves. Or maybe not?

worth the candle by arriviste (G, 1.2k, character death):

“I cannot linger here,” Andreth says. That is a truth she knows. This is only a doorway. “Still we might snatch a little time,” says Aegnor. - Aegnor and Andreth meet in the Halls.

[advancedscurvy]

i love the athrabeth

[theoppositeofprofound]

My sympathies for everyone in Valinor who has had to sit through Finrod’s three hour long “The Secondborn: Why They’ll Destroy Arda and Save Us All” PowerPoints.

[sesamenom]

Do candles pity moths?

[actual-bill-potts]

Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth: A Reading

The last 5 pages of Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth are spectacularly beautiful, and have inspired so much amazing fanwork and thought. However, the rest of the Athrabeth is, I think, a bit...harder to understand? At least, I have trouble wrapping my mind around it, and I've seen many interpretations of the conversation and what's going on between Finrod and Andreth here. So, for your reading pleasure, here is a "translated" version of how I read the Athrabeth (minus the last 5 pages which I simply dissolve into tears over every time). It's essentially the script of the Athrabeth, in modern prose. To those nerds who are as invested in it as I am - I am extremely curious to hear your thoughts on this! Differences? Similarities? I know the below is not the only way to read the Athrabeth, by a long shot.

FINROD: Andreth, I am so grieved at Boron's death, and so sorry for your loss. It seems like just yesterday that he was a little child. I feel like no time has passed at all since I first met Bëor, and now his grandson is dead. I loved them all, and miss them all.

ANDRETH: Thank you, and I'm sorry for your loss as well. My family have lived long and happy lives in Dorthonion, though - it may have seemed a short time to you, but they would have lived far fewer years before we crossed the Mountains, and counted themselves lucky for it.

FINROD: I'm glad at least that you and your family have been content.

ANDRETH: I wouldn't say that. Just that things suck a little less than they would have otherwise.

FINROD: Wait, what does that mean?

ANDRETH: Well, Morgoth fucked us all over while the Valar and the Elves were happy in Valinor. And he's still fucking us over.

FINROD: I'm confused. What does dying of old age have to do with Morgoth? He's evil, yes, but everyone since Bëor has died peacefully, of natural causes, the way Eru intended.

ANDRETH: So all you Elves say! You all think that we were designed to die in the blink of an eye. In fact to you we are indistinguishable from children, in how short our lives are; and you look down on us for it.

FINROD: I can't deny that some Elves do, though certainly I don't look down on you or any of the Atani! But the Elves who call you childish are not logically consistent, because our own lore says that both the Atani and the Quendi are children of Eru - and thus we are equal in every way that matters. And since you are children of Eru, equal to us, it follows that if you live briefly Eru must have designed it so. Do you disagree?

ANDRETH: Yes, I do! And furthermore I think the idea that the Atani were always designed to live briefly is a lie of Morgoth. The Wise among us say that the Atani were designed to live forever, but Morgoth shortened our lives unnaturally.

ANDRETH: Ironically, even though Men call us "the Wise," they won't listen to us about this. Neither do Elves. You're all dumbasses to be honest.

FINROD: I mean. That's fair. And Morgoth for sure fucked over Men's bodies to some extent. Since leaving Aman, even we Elves have noticed that our bodies decay and weaken faster than they would have otherwise.

ANDRETH: You still don't get it, and you're still being a high-handed dumbass. "Even we Elves" - do you hear yourself? You're starting from the assumption that Elves were meant to be more durable than Men. We of the Wise don't think so. We think Death was a terrible thing that was imposed upon us by Morgoth. We also thought that maybe by reaching Aman we could escape it: but apparently Morgoth beat us there, and I'm starting to suspect there's no hope for it anyway - in this world.

FINROD.EXE IS REBOOTING

FINROD: ...ok rude. I didn't wish death upon you.

FINROD: But anyway, you keep equating death with Morgoth! Are you really saying that he designed death? He's powerful, sure, but - death is everywhere. It's a part of life. If Morgoth wasn't around, death would still be here, it just wouldn't be considered an evil.

ANDRETH: "Death is a part of life," says the Elf. You don't know shit about death.

FINROD: Just because we Elves are immortal doesn't mean we don't die! We have died in droves, here in Beleriand - helping to keep your land safe, in case you hadn't noticed.

ANDRETH: Funny you should say that. I heard you came to Beleriand to recover some jewelry or whatever. But maybe that was just Caranthir. Anyway, death still isn't the same for you as it is for us. You can return; we can't. Once we die, we're gone forever. And Morgoth did this to us.

FINROD: I get what you're saying: Elf death is different from mortal death because one can be cured and the other can't.

ANDRETH: That's part of it. But here's the kicker: not only is death worse for Men, it's also inescapable. Death isn't guaranteed for you. It is for us. It doesn't matter what we do, we all meet the same wildly sucky end.

FINROD: So the Atani have no hope?

ANDRETH: I wouldn't say that exactly. We have no certainty, and no knowledge of what comes after death. But I think there is hope, and maybe we can speak of that later. I know you miss us, when we die.

FINROD: May we can, later. But for now, I want to return to what you said about death. I think you're wrong about the difference between the Quendi and the Atani. We Elves also die - we're tied to the world, and we'll die with the world, because the world will eventually end. Our deaths come later than yours, but they're just as inevitable. And beyond that - nothing but oblivion.

ANDRETH: That's a fair point, but...

FINROD: ...But at least we have a longer span, before death? That's also fair. But - just because the end is further off doesn't mean it's not a bad end.

FINROD: I could say much more on the subject, actually. But first: you say that Morgoth caused death, right?

ANDRETH: Yes.

FINROD: Gonna be honest with you: that's terrifying. I've met Morgoth, and he's a scary motherfucker, but the Quendi have never believed that he could truly prevail against the children of Eru. Eru is so much more powerful! That he could change the fate of a whole race - that's insane. If it's true, then not only the Noldor but all the Valar and the whole world are absolutely fucked.

ANDRETH: Aha! Now he realizes! You spoke so coolly of death a second ago, but now that I've suggested an idea that Men have to grapple with their whole short lives, you're in despair! Morgoth does have that power, and we are fucked.

FINROD: Watch it! To say that Morgoth has that power is to say that he is equal to Eru - and he is not equal to Eru.

FINROD: Let's say I accept your premise that the Atani were not originally made for death, but that their fate was changed. It must then have been Eru who changed it. What did Men do, to anger Eru so?

ANDRETH: We have ideas about that, actually. But we don't speak about them to outsiders, and anyway we're not 100% sure, because whatever happened is something that we have been running away from every since, and it must have happened very long ago.

FINROD: So you do have some idea?

ANDRETH: Maybe.

FINROD.EXE IS REBOOTING

FINROD: Do you think anyone besides the Atani knows anything about this? The Valar maybe?

ANDRETH: The Valar? How the fuck should I know? The Valar never bothered with us. They were apparently too busy with their precious Elves. Fuck the Valar.

FINROD: Don't say that! I've met the Valar, and they're actually cool as fuck. Has it occurred to you that maybe the Atani are out of the Valar's jurisdiction? You're children of Eru alone. You're the masters of your own fate in the way the Quendi are not.

FINROD: Also you seem really upset. I get it if you don't want to talk about it, but please don't put it on me.

ANDRETH: (glares)

FINROD: Anyway here's another thing I don't get. Let's say that at one point the Atani were made to live forever. But even the Quendi don't truly live forever. We die when the world does. What would it even mean, to be deathless like that?

ANDRETH: Our opinions on this have nothing to do with Elves. We had these theories way before we even knew Elves existed.

FINROD: Ok I'm gonna be real honest here, I kinda thought that you came up with these ideas because you were jealous of Elves. But you say this has nothing to do with Elves, and it never even occurred to you to make the comparison to our state. How can that be? The Atani have known about Elves for a long time.

ANDRETH: I'm gonna be honest with you: that is some typical Elf bullshit. The world does not revolve around you. We've always known that we were made to live forever. And I do mean forever. As in, no dying whatsoever. What about that doesn't make sense to you? Were you too busy thinking up your next subtle insult to listen to the words I was saying?

FINROD: Has it occurred to you that what you're saying may be batshit insane?

ANDRETH: It hasn't, actually. Many wise people among us would say the same thing I'm saying.

FINROD: Well, many wise Elves would say the same thing I'm saying. So there. I have two issues with the idea of complete deathlessness. First: you claim to have lives that will last longer than the world, and yet you are sustained by the world. How can that be? Second: if the Atani will live longer than the world will last, then your spirit and body must be separate from each other, or else the spirit would die when the body does. We Elves believe that the spirit and body belong together, and that the separation of the two is an evil.

ANDRETH: I get your first objection, and I do have an answer for it. The second one I don't understand.

FINROD: I'm surprised - it seems very obvious. But maybe the Atani are too close to the issue. We Elves have observed you all for many years, and we do love you (irritating beyond belief though you might be), so we do know something about you.

FINROD: To break it down: the spirits of the Atani and the Quendi are not the same. It's obvious in the way we look at the world. You Atani view the world with a surprise and delight that we Elves can't muster. It's like...we love the world, but in the way that we love a familiar home; you love the world like you're a guest in our home, visiting for the first time

ANDRETH: Guests? In your home?

FINROD: That's what we call you!

ANDRETH: (sarcastic) How incredibly gracious of you! We live here too, asshole. It's not like we have another home to go to.

FINROD: No, but seriously - it does actually seem like you're just guests here, and you belong somewhere else. Where do you belong? Where did these ideas about deathlessness come from, that are so strange and so foreign to our very nature?

ANDRETH: That's really interesting, actually. I think you're right, about Men - we do get bored after seeing the same world day after day, while the Elves don't. Previously we thought that was because Elves don't tire or decay the way we do. But now - if nothing in this world can make us feel at home - is that another aspect of Morgoth's curse on us? Or is it something fundamental to our nature as Atani?

FINROD: I think it's fundamental to your nature! And now you get my second objection. Death is the severing of body and spirit; immortality means that body and spirit remain together forever. If Men don't fully belong in Arda - and we have agreed that they don't - then wouldn't immortality in your current body be a curse? We've always assumed that when you die, your spirit goes to some other realm that is your true home. How can you be truly deathless and yet belong to a world that will inevitably die?

ANDRETH: You know what they say about assumptions. I don't believe that when Men die we go get a body in some other world, and leave our Arda-bodies behind. Because it is a grief to us, to die and lose our bodies. If what you suggested is true, then our bodies would be distasteful to our spirits: prisons rather than houses. But that's not true! We love our bodies; we are our bodies, as much as we are our spirits. Death doesn't "set our spirits free": it only hurts us.

FINROD: Okay, so let me get this straight. Your spirits are guests here, but your bodies belong fully to this world - but they are indivisible from each other.

FINROD: The only way that works is...if your spirits take your bodies with them, when you depart for whatever world is your true home. That would be amazing, if true. What is the land that is the true home of Men like, I wonder?

ANDRETH: Only Eru knows, I guess. Even the wisest of us haven't thought much about that. We've mostly thought about the nature of Men, not what the next world might be like.

FINROD: So it's not just Elves who think too much about themselves!

FINROD: ...but anyway. This idea of yours is actually really cool! If it's true, it means that Men, rather than being the lesser followers of Elves, were intended to be healers of the world, and bring all of us children of Eru into a new Arda, without any evil in it. I never heard of this from the Valar, but now I wonder if they just...couldn't comprehend it! Or maybe Eru never told them. Maybe all of this is meant to be a build-up to some big reveal from him!

ANDRETH: What would the "big reveal" be?

FINROD: Deliverance from death, of course! I think I was wrong earlier, when I defined death as the separation of spirit and body. Death is the annihilation of both spirit and body. And if what you say is true, Men could deliver us from that fate! By your power you could allow all the Children of Eru, Men and Elves alike, to bring our bodies and spirits both to a new, truly deathless world.

FINROD: And what a world it would be! Men and Elves could walk together, with no fear of death ever dividing them. Such songs we would sing to you, for that!

ANDRETH: Uh-huh. And what would you do when you weren't singing our praises on the hilltops? Because you all are annoying as fuck to talk to in this world.

FINROD: Who knows? Maybe we would tell you tales from when the Eldar first awoke, before all the terrible things that happened later. In your world we Quendi would be the "guests," and you the hosts; you the lords, us the followers! We Elves have the gift of an unfading memory, which you have not: and in this new world we could tell such stories!

ANDRETH: But this is terrible to think about, because that future is not assured. Men have been cursed. We are not deathless now.

FINROD: Is there no hope then?

ANDRETH: What do you mean by "hope"? If you mean, "some ground to stand on when we say things won't be terrible forever," then uh...no. No hope whatsoever.

FINROD: Well that's one kind of hope. But when I said hope, maybe I really meant faith: faith that Eru won't let this state of affairs continue forever. Faith that Eru loves his children, and wouldn't leave us all to die with no recourse or comfort. Do you have none of that hope in Eru?

ANDRETH: Maybe - but we Men have suffered so much already! Why would Eru allow us to suffer so much? Morgoth has won, and he rules our fate now.

FINROD: Don't say such things!

ANDRETH: If you truly want to understand us - you must hear this. Most if not all of us already believe that. In fact the only Men who don't believe that Morgoth is their lord are those of us who came West. And hope is fading even among us, because we hoped for light and healing in the West, and didn't find it. Maybe there is no hope.

FINROD: That sounds awfully pessimistic.

ANDRETH: I think the pessimism is warranted. We've been cursed by Morgoth: who can un-curse us? How could such a thing happen? And even if we were un-cursed, what would happen to all the Men who've died already? There's only one belief - the Old Hope - that provides any kind of answer at all, and their answer is kind of crazy.

FINROD: Well, what is the Old Hope?

ANDRETH: That Eru himself will come into Arda, and lift Morgoth's curse upon us.

FINROD: Do you believe this?

ANDRETH: How can I? It's completely insane. You say that Eru isn't just a greater Vala, or some other kind of "god" who's still bound to Arda, but rather something entirely different and much mightier. Yes?

FINROD: That's correct - the Valar even say so, and they're not likely to lie.

ANDRETH: Exactly. So how could Eru, who created this whole world and everything in it, and has absolute power over it, come into it? It doesn't make sense.

FINROD: I mean, in some sense he's already here, right? Like, his hand is in everything, because he created everything. But I see what you mean: there's two ways of being "within" Arda.

ANDRETH: Yeah, you see what I'm saying. Sure, his hand is on Arda. But how could he, himself and entire, come into the world and live as we do? Wouldn't it just...break everything?

FINROD: Don't ask me. That's not a question for Elves. I don't think it's even a question for the Valar. But I'm sure Eru could find a way, if he wanted to.

FINROD: Now that I think about it, the Old Hope actually makes a certain amount of sense! I don't believe that Eru will let his Children suffer forever. I refuse to believe it. But in some ways Morgoth has irretrievably cursed this world. He added evil to everything, so that nothing within Arda is purely good. That means the final answer to Morgoth's evil must come from beyond the world!

ANDRETH: Wait, so you believe the Old Hope?

FINROD: I'm not sure yet. I've never heard anything like this before.

FINROD: But maybe we two races were meant to meet like this, so that you could pass on this great hope to the Quendi! In fact, Andreth, dear one, maybe we two, ourselves, were meant to meet, so that you could bring comfort to my people, in this time of great fear, and that the Quendi and the Atani might be brought closer together!

[camille-lachenille]

I am SOBBING 😭😭😭 I just finished the Athrabeth and I can’t begin to express all the Feelings I have. Here are some quotes:

[black-heart-nite]

Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth, part XXI

With the patient @elluendifad as Andreth.

[middlearthmusic]

Hey! How are you?

So, yeah, I wanted to cause a bit of problems, because I am a self-proclaimed agent of chaos, and also because I was really curious and you did say Tolkien characters- so...

Andreth?

Hello! I’m well; thanks for asking! Hope you are, too. 😃

Ooh, Andreth is a good one. Emeli Sandé’s music comes to mind. “Human” reflects Andreth’s deep knowledge of humanity and personal wisdom. I’ll add “Family”, because the House of Bëor is determined and unshakeable.

I also like “Driving Through A Dream” by Andrew McMahon in the Wilderness for her and Aegnor! And for Andreth’s friendship with Finrod, let’s say the classic “Lean On Me” by Bill Withers.

[verecunda]

ADANETH, I TELL THEE, AIKANÁR THE SHARP-FLAME LOVED THEE!!!!!

[southfarthing]

aragorn's "I would have gone with you to the end, into the very fires of mordor" and frodo's "I know" / andreth's "for one year, one day, of the flame I would have given all: kin, youth, and hope itself" and finrod's "that he knew"

[edennill]

my complicated opinion on the canonicity of the athrabeth is that I think a similar document exists in-universe, and the interactions between finrod and andreth did happen (although perhaps not precisely as described; due to the sheer number of trains of thought present it feels likely this is a compilation of several years worth of conversations), but the actual document is different on many points from the one we have.

like I completely accept the andreth/aegnor content and finrod's vision (which I actually decided had to be the true ending years before stumbling upon that text lol) no questions asked, but the rest of the philosophy... I choose to believe other points were made in the real discussions because some of the extant ones just strike me oddly.

I'm probably esp not that much of a fan of the straight line to Christianity sections... and I am Christian, it's just that the idea really doesn't fit for me, I've never liked the "middle earth is our earth" conceit, and I think everything else not being a 1:1 representation really damages the argument — like tolkien set out as writing fiction, a mythology he would feel in his heart and be comfortable with, he didn't try to be perfectly accurate, and his later attempts at changing that were definitely too late without rebuilding the whole thing from scratch.

and I do feel he did realise that, the athrabeth does seem to be a little discontinued by the end, although maybe I'm mistaken, certainly he recognises the danger of becoming "parodical" unintentionally.

-----

the tale of adanel I take to be definitely non canon for reasons I've mentioned elsewhere (tl;dr fear can certainly lead to evil, but it doesn't work as an original sin, the problem with an original sin is that you have to be 1000% informed about reality and the consequences... the edain don't seem to know what they're doing), but it feels like a niche gondorian apocrypha... it's exactly like the sort of thing someone might come up with based on precisely three tidbits of information:

something awful happened at the beginning of our days

the great enemy was involved because how else

"huh, what was the worst moment of our own history?"

I don't think it's widely believed in, more an academic curiosity. maybe connected to the athrabeth matter by the author (forger?) himself.

[emyn-arnens]

Andreth Rec List

If you know me, you know how much I love Andreth. I’ve put together a list of some of my favorite Andreth-centric fics, mostly focusing on who she is outside of her relationship with Aegnor and on her relationships with her family and Finrod. (But if you’re in the mood for Aegnor/Andreth, I have a rec list for them here.)

As always, if you enjoy any of these, please leave a kudo and comment for the author!

A flickering flame by @camille-lachenille (G, Andreth & Finrod, 1k):

She looks at the babe in her arms, blissfully asleep and unaware of the world he just entered. This little boy who shouldn’t be, her miracle and her curse.

Blood on Bone for a Lover’s Burial by heget (T, Andreth & Baragund & Belegund, 4.7k):

After the Dagor Bragollach, Wise-woman Andreth demands that their dead be buried. Her great-nephews, Baragund and Belegund, escort her to the ruins of Barathonion, to search for bones.

The Brides of Death by heget (G, Andreth & Finrod, 2.3k):

"Nóm has many questions, but he never asks about the wreath Andreth wears in her hair." A story of the Edain and their first interaction with the elves, of courage and defiance and most of all the Gift of Men.

Chrysalis by @cuarthol (G, Andreth & Bregor, 1.3k):

Andreth grieves.

For We Remember by ncfan (T, Andreth & Morwen, 7k):

Morwen, in childhood.

The Ring by heget (G, Andreth/Aegnor, ~600 words):

Andreth reunites with Aegnor.

Stitch. by Zimraphel (G, Andreth, ~400 words):

The sentence ends in silence halfway through. - the author once again uses poor Finrod and Andreth to vent halfheartedly about her own issues with Meaning, and Life, and Death as defined by elves. As one does! But really; how infuriating to hear someone say your life is part of a greater harmony when none of yours forms much of one, Finrod.

The north-march by losselen (G, Andreth, ~400 words):

A poem of Andreth in Ladros, who lived in the long years of the Siege of Angband.

Watcher Of/In the Woods by ncfan (T, Andreth, 2.4k):

"Outside, the world was changing." Andreth, in the time following the Dagor Bragollach.

Words by @hhimring (G, Andreth & Finrod, ~800 words):

Finrod and Andreth discuss matters of language. A short extra scene in the "Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth".

[annafdd]

Oh this is so beautiful.

A brief reunion in the Halls